All language subtitles for 2015-Jake and Dinos Chapman-Interview Hitler Turning in his Grave

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well with the hit Hitler work

um we were interested in um you know the

idea of of of trying to work out what a

work of art does and how well it does it

you know we were kind of we were

thinking well you know if if if a work

of art has a kind of a latent meaning to

it or some apparent sense of of

self-expression that you can look at Vos

uh um some flowers and and see those as

a as a as as an expression of Madness or

Insanity that somehow in the in the in

the the working of the surface or the

the the the manipulation of the paint

that somehow there's this uh um sense in

which the work is motivated by you know

this kind of terrible uh uh pain and

torment that the artist goes through we

were kind of thinking well if this if

that's the case with a vanov painting

maybe you should be able to look at a

Hitler painting and see you know that

there should be some kind of index of of

things to come in in in in the work

before he he you know went on to kind of

be a a mass murderer of of Epic

magnitude but the interesting thing with

the Hitler's work is that the the work

is blank there's no forensic evidence of

what what's to what's to come so we're

just interested in the idea that if a

work of art can say something about the

person how come in the case of Hitler

the work gives no indication there's no

symptomatic pathology in the work that

would then kind demonstrate what the the

kind of the latent sort of evil you know

this this this character you know

putatively putative evil that this

person kind of goes on to express so we

were kind of thinking well you know it's

a very interesting idea that actually if

you kind of think about the 20th century

and the the most evil person in the 20th

century and you have opportunity to look

at the work you know that actually it's

blank you know maybe the idea of of

being evil is being blank rather than

but also it's not especially blank no

it's just it's it's indistinguishable

from from thousands and thousands of

other pieces of of sort of second rate

art that was made around the same time

so it's kind of you know it's you know I

I think a person might be tempted to

think oh no it's it's it's it's devoid

it's especially devoid you know

psychosis but it's not there's nothing

there nothing there's something

interesting about the idea of the the

the absolute the absolute identity of

Hitler as a as a as a an unmistakable um

uh irreducible entity and the anonymity

of the work you have the two things

which are just completely opposite ends

of spectrum one is the absolute the

absolute presence of a of a of a of a

known entity and then the other thing

which is this kind of vacuous

superficial um you know ethereal thing

which is this kind of these the work

which which is is which so far

undermines and under repesent the

enormity of the individual so we're kind

of interested in how how those two

things work and the idea of actually

well you know

um uh drawing on these things just seems

it's it's there's lots of things

involved in it the idea that actually

you know that that that we are we are

destroying a um a limited resource a

limited uh set of objects which in some

ways you know um they should they should

they shouldn't be drawn on because they

should stand as documents which are

historically uh uh they historically

represent this person you know the idea

of drawing on them means to say that

you're actually raising

history and

um yeah it's I mean it and also I mean

it

does there's a point in some people's

argument

that whilst Hitler was making these

drawings and paintings he was still a

normal human being a functioning human

being and if if he had gone to art

school he wouldn't have been this

terrible terrible

Tyrant so kind of you know at a certain

point we decided that if we could jump

in at that point and even ruin that

notion of him then he's you know it it's

kind of it's it's a way of kicking

someone where they can't they can't

defend themselves at all you know

there's there's no point at which Hitler

you know we're going to get hold of

every single thing he's ever done and

change it so he he won't won't ever be

uh rescuable

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yeah with the Hitler paintings it would

seemed you know to to be faced with a a

picture by Hitler and to work out what

it is we wanted to do it seemed that you

know if if there was some idea of of of

you know the idea of actually you know

how do you transgress the most

transgressive thing I mean Hitler

painting when you're faced with it it's

it's a kind of it's a very uh disturbing

object you know historically is very

disturbing but the idea of actually

working out how to transgress its value

how to subordinate the the the the the

metaphysical value of its evil to turn

it into something you know and it just

seemed very appropriate for us to paint

little rainbows and and little stars and

um little um just very innocuous and

inoffensive things that what's

interesting is is that actually you know

the most innocuous and inoffensive thing

became the most offensive thing we could

actually turn um pretty little

multicolored rainbows into the most um

um um transgressive element you know

because it seems the most inappropriate

thing was then appropriate you know that

that here you have this thing which is

kind of which is the currency of of of

mass genocide to paint little um

rainbows on it seem to be the most

appropriate thing you know it's kind of

it's about the the mag magnitude of

scale the scale of it the the the the

the the Ridiculousness of it seems

absolutely appropriate um you know that

you know if you wanted you the idea of

thinking of of Hitler turning in his

grave because we painted rainbows on his

pictures is just

fantastically pleasurable fantastic

thought using My Little Pony to kick

Adolf Hitler is entirely appropriate

some people were um you know some people

thought it was the best thing in the

world some thought it was less not so

much you know there were people uh you

know there were you know the responses

are not so you know they're interesting

because in a sense there's no way in

which you can um draw a Hitler's

Hitler's paintings without kind of uh uh

maybe trying to second guess the the

outcome I mean the the work is about the

outcome um and so in some ways you know

those the arguments kind of range from

you know these things should be

preserved as historical documents to um

you know sort of should be destroyed

they should be destroyed or you know

then mid Midway you get kind of death

threats from neo- Nazis saying you've

draw you've drawn on the furrious uh um

you know work and you know so there's

there's a whole range of responses I

mean I think the thing is the the the

historical document one is is

interesting because because because

because in a sense you know if you have

actually and we have had the same um uh

same kind of AR arguments persist with

the Goya working on the Goya drawings um

you know the idea of actually sort of

saying well you know is this a gesture

are we are we simply saying yeah you

know we'll draw on a couple of these

things and see how it works no if we set

ourselves the task of saying we'll draw

on every single thing we can get our

hands on suddenly the the the the threat

and the project becomes much more

um much more worrying you know but

actually what we're saying is is that we

will we can

alter historical documents to the point

where they will become ours rather than

histories you know and in that sense

it's it's you can see the danger of the

project and that's and we're kind of you

know we we are the threat is real and

the threat the threat is because you

know with the Goya things you know we we

we bought the first set of goers drawn

them sold them the money we made we went

to buy the next one so you know and

after maybe two or three four versions

you know the idea of actually you know

that you can actually sort of make your

threats it becomes serious so the idea

actually you know might be a point in

time where people have to hide their

goers or hide their Hitler paintings

because you know it's quite a nice idea

it's like it's like it's like it's it's

it's um it's kind of aesthetic Eola and

it's it's it's malicious there there

it's not it I mean when we say we're

going to do that and it's it's it's real

and I mean you know in interestingly

enough Hitler prices have gone up and

goer prices have gone

up so I you know I think there might be

a point at which we can't afford to buy

the next set of of goers yeah we reach

that point yeah it's you know that I

mean you know it's interesting setting

setting a chain of events in motion not

knowing where that where they're going

to lead you know you you set up a a

process and the process is more is more

important than

you know the the points along that along

that that line you know as Jake said you

know you do the first set of goers

everybody goes that's a funny idea you

do the second one everybody goes oh

this is this is real this isn't kind of

no it's say well why did you do it twice

yeah you know so you have to do it third

time and then say why have you done it

three times

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