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[Ominous music plays]
2
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♪♪
3
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Something unusual
happened to my daughter
4
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when she was probably
about 8-years old.
5
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Wow. It's hard to talk about.
6
00:00:37,204 --> 00:00:39,707
Okay. Hold on.
7
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So my daughter said that
there had been an apparition.
8
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[Male voice] [Singsongy voice]
Christina.
9
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An apparition of a boy
that came in her room.
10
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She said he was wearing
these overalls.
11
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He had kind of an impish smile.
12
00:00:59,351 --> 00:01:01,353
♪♪
13
00:01:01,437 --> 00:01:03,898
[Ominous music plays]
14
00:01:03,981 --> 00:01:07,109
And what occurred was
that this little boy
15
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would be transformed
into this character
16
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that was horribly evil.
17
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[Laughs]
18
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He started to laugh.
19
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[Laughs]
Go to the window.
20
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[Scherlacher] I thought maybe
I heard something,
21
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something moving in her room.
22
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It's okay.
23
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And I got up out of my bed
to look.
24
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Now fly.
25
00:01:34,011 --> 00:01:36,639
[Laughs]
26
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She was gonna kill
herself.
27
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Christina!
28
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I grabbed her and had to,
like, restrain her.
29
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Are you okay?
30
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She said, "The little boy says
I have to kill myself."
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[Male voice laughs]
32
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I felt so powerless.
33
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In my faith,
34
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in Christ, and in my prayers,
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I knew I was dealing
with hell itself.
36
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[eerie piano music playing]
37
00:02:02,998 --> 00:02:05,209
This was over 30 years ago.
38
00:02:05,292 --> 00:02:08,253
And my daughter grew up,
of course.
39
00:02:08,336 --> 00:02:11,173
Whether a Satan exists
is a matter of belief,
40
00:02:11,257 --> 00:02:13,342
but we are certain
that Satanism exists.
41
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[Scherlacher] Recently she
called me up and said, "Dad,
42
00:02:15,719 --> 00:02:17,054
I watched this thing
on YouTube --
43
00:02:17,137 --> 00:02:18,806
'Geraldo Rivera.'"
44
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And our own Detective Hart
was on that program.
45
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We came down here.
46
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We found Mrs. Sullivan
laying on the floor.
47
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And there was this kid,
Tom Sullivan.
48
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[Man] Tommy Sullivan had written
this contract with the devil.
49
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[Scherlacher] She sees the face.
50
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And she recognizes him as the
boy that showed up in her room.
51
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The same kind of smirk
and everything.
52
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She said, "That's him."
53
00:02:42,704 --> 00:02:44,957
My daughter would have
not recognized Tom
54
00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,918
at the age of 8, because Tom
had been dead for years already.
55
00:02:48,002 --> 00:02:50,504
She didn't know anything
about Tom,
56
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and to this day,
she will tell you...
57
00:02:52,715 --> 00:02:54,550
[Laughs]
58
00:02:54,633 --> 00:02:57,678
..."The little boy
that appeared in my room,
59
00:02:57,761 --> 00:02:59,805
that was Tommy Sullivan."
60
00:02:59,889 --> 00:03:01,265
[exhales]
61
00:03:01,348 --> 00:03:03,142
[ominous music plays]
62
00:03:03,225 --> 00:03:04,560
[laughs]
63
00:03:04,643 --> 00:03:07,104
♪♪
64
00:03:07,187 --> 00:03:09,148
[woman vocalizing]
65
00:03:09,231 --> 00:03:12,860
♪♪
66
00:03:12,943 --> 00:03:14,904
[fire crackling]
67
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♪♪
68
00:03:19,825 --> 00:03:21,535
[Indistinct whispering]
69
00:03:21,619 --> 00:03:25,079
♪♪
70
00:03:25,164 --> 00:03:27,166
[piano music playing]
71
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[Roth] When something
traumatic happens,
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00:03:29,501 --> 00:03:31,795
something you can't
wrap your head around,
73
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it's natural to reach for
the oldest story in the book...
74
00:03:36,383 --> 00:03:38,761
...good vs. evil...
75
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God vs. the devil.
76
00:03:41,055 --> 00:03:46,393
It gives the horror a shape,
a villain, something to blame.
77
00:03:46,477 --> 00:03:48,562
But that doesn't consider
the real-world demons
78
00:03:48,646 --> 00:03:50,606
that live within us all.
79
00:03:50,689 --> 00:03:53,901
It's a shield against
an even more violent foe.
80
00:03:53,984 --> 00:03:57,571
It's realizing that the monster
was never hiding under the bed.
81
00:03:57,655 --> 00:04:00,699
It was always much closer
than that.
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00:04:00,783 --> 00:04:03,118
♪♪
83
00:04:03,202 --> 00:04:04,995
[Birds chirping]
84
00:04:08,874 --> 00:04:13,545
Everybody that
I've ever talked to about Tommy
85
00:04:13,629 --> 00:04:18,007
and about the whole situation
definitely has questions.
86
00:04:20,427 --> 00:04:22,846
The part that stood out to me
the most
87
00:04:22,930 --> 00:04:25,975
was that he killed himself
that way.
88
00:04:26,058 --> 00:04:27,851
Both of his wrists were slit.
89
00:04:27,935 --> 00:04:30,229
And then the way
it was described to me
90
00:04:30,312 --> 00:04:34,274
is that from ear to ear
he was slit, like,
91
00:04:34,358 --> 00:04:36,151
almost, like, basically
through his throat.
92
00:04:36,235 --> 00:04:37,945
Like, it was deep.
93
00:04:38,028 --> 00:04:40,781
I had the exact
same pocketknife.
94
00:04:40,864 --> 00:04:42,032
It's not a big knife.
95
00:04:42,116 --> 00:04:43,951
If you were gonna hold it,
96
00:04:44,034 --> 00:04:45,744
the handle is about
the size of your hand,
97
00:04:45,828 --> 00:04:46,996
and then the blade
would be sticking out
98
00:04:47,079 --> 00:04:48,247
maybe an inch
to an inch and a half.
99
00:04:48,330 --> 00:04:49,999
So he wouldn't have been
able to hold the knife
100
00:04:50,082 --> 00:04:51,582
to cut the next wrist.
101
00:04:51,667 --> 00:04:54,503
And if you slash--
slash your throat,
102
00:04:54,586 --> 00:04:56,422
well, you're not gonna be
able to do either.
103
00:04:56,505 --> 00:04:59,341
So, I mean, not to make it
a math problem,
104
00:04:59,425 --> 00:05:01,301
but the order of operations
just doesn't make any sense.
105
00:05:01,385 --> 00:05:03,887
[Breathing heavily]
106
00:05:03,971 --> 00:05:06,390
[Cies] The devil possessing you,
giving you superhuman strength
107
00:05:06,473 --> 00:05:09,893
was the explanation that put
that to bed to everybody.
108
00:05:09,977 --> 00:05:12,187
[Woman] I understand there
may have been some Satanic,
109
00:05:12,271 --> 00:05:13,772
uh, indications
in that letter, as well.
110
00:05:13,856 --> 00:05:15,315
That's true.
That's correct.
111
00:05:15,399 --> 00:05:17,735
Even as a 13-year-old
trying to process it,
112
00:05:17,818 --> 00:05:21,155
like, the devil doing it
just didn't --
113
00:05:21,238 --> 00:05:23,657
It's not really
a satisfying explanation,
114
00:05:23,741 --> 00:05:26,201
and it just leaves you
really, like, unsettled
115
00:05:26,285 --> 00:05:27,703
and really uneasy.
116
00:05:29,872 --> 00:05:31,874
It's 30-something years ago.
117
00:05:31,957 --> 00:05:33,332
It didn't make any sense
at the time.
118
00:05:33,417 --> 00:05:35,294
And, like, looking back,
119
00:05:35,377 --> 00:05:37,796
I don't know anybody that thinks
that Tommy killed himself.
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00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:43,343
♪♪
121
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♪♪
122
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[Man] It's just...
123
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♪♪
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00:05:58,609 --> 00:06:02,404
♪♪
125
00:06:06,158 --> 00:06:08,994
♪♪
126
00:06:09,078 --> 00:06:10,746
♪♪
127
00:06:12,581 --> 00:06:14,792
♪♪
128
00:06:18,253 --> 00:06:20,005
♪♪
129
00:06:27,137 --> 00:06:30,182
♪♪
130
00:06:34,269 --> 00:06:41,276
♪♪
131
00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:42,986
♪♪
132
00:06:53,288 --> 00:06:55,415
♪♪
133
00:06:59,586 --> 00:07:01,130
Satan came to him.
134
00:07:01,213 --> 00:07:02,881
Satan had his face on it.
135
00:07:02,965 --> 00:07:05,092
And Satan told him to kill
his family and then go out
136
00:07:05,175 --> 00:07:07,136
and preach Satanism.
137
00:07:07,219 --> 00:07:09,429
♪♪
138
00:07:13,851 --> 00:07:15,894
A neighbor down the street
told me Tommy Sullivan
139
00:07:15,978 --> 00:07:17,437
used to cut his grass.
140
00:07:17,521 --> 00:07:19,356
He said he was
an all-American boy.
141
00:07:19,439 --> 00:07:21,650
He said nobody--
and I mean nobody--
142
00:07:21,733 --> 00:07:23,735
can figure out what went wrong.
143
00:07:23,819 --> 00:07:28,407
Satanism made little Tommy
kill his mother so brutally.
144
00:07:28,490 --> 00:07:30,659
Yeah, I don't buy that.
145
00:07:30,742 --> 00:07:31,952
I just don't.
146
00:07:33,453 --> 00:07:35,956
I was there just to learn.
147
00:07:36,039 --> 00:07:38,542
I was just there
to find out why.
148
00:07:38,625 --> 00:07:40,627
Why? What happened here?
149
00:07:40,711 --> 00:07:42,880
I did not talk to Tom Sr.
150
00:07:42,963 --> 00:07:45,924
Trust me, I tried really,
really hard to talk to him.
151
00:07:47,509 --> 00:07:48,886
I tried and tried and tried.
152
00:07:48,969 --> 00:07:50,554
He did not want to talk to me.
153
00:07:52,764 --> 00:07:55,726
So here I was going
to look into, like,
154
00:07:55,808 --> 00:07:59,354
why and what happened
and really,
155
00:07:59,438 --> 00:08:02,858
you know, dig as deeply
as I could.
156
00:08:02,941 --> 00:08:05,110
But it wasn't an easy dig.
157
00:08:07,362 --> 00:08:09,531
I got a lot of,
"I can't talk to you,"
158
00:08:09,615 --> 00:08:10,991
"I don't want to talk to you."
159
00:08:11,074 --> 00:08:14,161
"Why?" "I'm sorry.
I just can't talk to you"...
160
00:08:14,244 --> 00:08:17,956
as if there was this big secret,
which made me even,
161
00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:19,541
you know, more curious.
162
00:08:21,126 --> 00:08:23,337
Like, what's being hidden here?
163
00:08:23,420 --> 00:08:26,506
I remember my mother
not being a fan of Tom Sr.
164
00:08:26,590 --> 00:08:31,011
My folks remember
Tom Sr. was heavy-handed.
165
00:08:31,094 --> 00:08:33,764
I used to occasionally catch
a beating
166
00:08:33,847 --> 00:08:35,307
from my father,
obviously.
167
00:08:35,390 --> 00:08:37,392
I mean, it was the 1980s
168
00:08:37,476 --> 00:08:39,561
and I was a pain in the ass,
169
00:08:39,645 --> 00:08:43,232
but Tommy was in trouble a lot,
170
00:08:43,315 --> 00:08:45,525
either grounded or afraid
171
00:08:45,609 --> 00:08:47,194
that his father was
gonna give him a few cracks
172
00:08:47,277 --> 00:08:49,696
when he got home.
173
00:08:49,780 --> 00:08:52,074
I was able to rationalize it
at the time, like,
174
00:08:52,157 --> 00:08:53,825
you know, that's
just what happens, you know?
175
00:08:53,909 --> 00:08:56,787
But looking back, it definitely
was a different level.
176
00:08:56,870 --> 00:08:59,289
[Indistinct talking on TV]
177
00:08:59,373 --> 00:09:02,125
Tom Sr., he had a temper.
178
00:09:02,209 --> 00:09:03,961
I guess that was
pretty well known.
179
00:09:05,671 --> 00:09:08,048
Detective Pell related to me,
and one of the people
180
00:09:08,131 --> 00:09:11,051
that he had spoken with
from the neighborhood
181
00:09:11,134 --> 00:09:14,888
described Tom Sr.
as having some type of argument
182
00:09:14,972 --> 00:09:16,807
or something with Tom Jr.
183
00:09:16,890 --> 00:09:18,600
Kind of got loud and stuff.
184
00:09:21,937 --> 00:09:24,856
Kind of an aggressive type
of situation.
185
00:09:24,940 --> 00:09:27,150
Went unreported
to law enforcement,
186
00:09:27,234 --> 00:09:29,569
but nothing was ever done.
187
00:09:29,653 --> 00:09:31,822
There were people
around the neighborhood
188
00:09:31,905 --> 00:09:35,242
that voiced concerns about Tommy
and his father getting into it,
189
00:09:35,325 --> 00:09:37,077
but certainly nobody's
picking up the phone,
190
00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:38,787
calling 911,
191
00:09:38,870 --> 00:09:41,039
um, and didn't.
192
00:09:44,501 --> 00:09:46,795
When I first started looking
at what was going on
193
00:09:46,878 --> 00:09:49,589
with this family,
194
00:09:49,673 --> 00:09:51,883
one of the things that I recall
195
00:09:51,967 --> 00:09:54,261
didn't involve Tommy
or Tommy's room,
196
00:09:54,344 --> 00:09:58,473
but it was Brian
and Brian's room.
197
00:09:58,557 --> 00:10:02,060
Most of us, if you had brothers
and sisters growing up,
198
00:10:02,144 --> 00:10:04,354
remember putting a sign
on your door
199
00:10:04,438 --> 00:10:06,356
that said, "Do not enter," or
whatever or something like that.
200
00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,358
"Keep out."
201
00:10:08,442 --> 00:10:10,277
That's until your mother
and father said, "Nah,
202
00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,279
we don't do that here,"
and take it down.
203
00:10:12,362 --> 00:10:15,615
The thing that struck me
was that on the door
204
00:10:15,699 --> 00:10:18,452
to Brian's bedroom,
205
00:10:18,535 --> 00:10:20,746
it said,
"Stay out or I will kill you."
206
00:10:22,789 --> 00:10:25,459
And I think it speaks
to a level of violence
207
00:10:25,542 --> 00:10:30,797
that I hate to say
was acceptable.
208
00:10:30,881 --> 00:10:35,052
It certainly wouldn't
have flown in our home.
209
00:10:35,135 --> 00:10:38,805
Um, and I think most parents
would say the same thing.
210
00:10:38,889 --> 00:10:41,099
That -- In my opinion,
211
00:10:41,183 --> 00:10:44,895
this was an indicator
of the family situation,
212
00:10:44,978 --> 00:10:46,355
the dynamics.
213
00:10:49,483 --> 00:10:51,985
I always had this feeling
that Tom was mad at his mom
214
00:10:52,069 --> 00:10:55,489
for not protecting them
from the dad.
215
00:10:55,572 --> 00:10:57,491
And I remember having the sense
216
00:10:57,574 --> 00:11:00,494
that his mother didn't step in
to protect him and Brian
217
00:11:00,577 --> 00:11:03,038
as much as he would have liked
that she would have.
218
00:11:03,121 --> 00:11:06,083
Like, she should have been there
to cushion that blow.
219
00:11:08,627 --> 00:11:12,631
I hesitate
to judge a person's home,
220
00:11:12,714 --> 00:11:17,511
and there are factors
in every home that have issues,
221
00:11:17,594 --> 00:11:19,179
and parents have issues.
222
00:11:19,262 --> 00:11:22,099
[Indistinct arguing]
223
00:11:22,182 --> 00:11:24,518
[Fleck] But I don't think
there was good communication.
224
00:11:24,601 --> 00:11:26,812
[Arguing continues]
225
00:11:29,272 --> 00:11:32,984
In an article that
was written subsequent to this,
226
00:11:33,068 --> 00:11:36,571
the father had been quoted
as saying,
227
00:11:36,655 --> 00:11:39,866
"My wife was overbearing
228
00:11:39,950 --> 00:11:42,160
and she's too strict."
229
00:11:43,745 --> 00:11:45,580
And maybe she was too strict.
230
00:11:45,664 --> 00:11:47,332
♪♪
231
00:11:47,415 --> 00:11:48,750
[Video game sound effects
playing]
232
00:11:48,834 --> 00:11:51,420
♪♪
233
00:11:53,547 --> 00:11:55,090
[Woman vocalizing]
234
00:11:55,173 --> 00:11:57,634
♪♪
235
00:12:06,768 --> 00:12:08,562
♪♪
236
00:12:11,523 --> 00:12:13,483
[Davidowitz] Betty Anne
is the one who believed
237
00:12:13,567 --> 00:12:15,152
that parochial education
was good.
238
00:12:15,235 --> 00:12:18,697
I don't think that
the dad had signed up for that,
239
00:12:18,780 --> 00:12:21,908
but he just went along with it.
240
00:12:21,992 --> 00:12:27,122
What little I gathered
from talking to neighbors
241
00:12:27,205 --> 00:12:30,459
is that this boy,
242
00:12:30,542 --> 00:12:35,881
I think he just felt
as if he couldn't breathe...
243
00:12:35,964 --> 00:12:37,883
[Betty Anne
shouting indistinctly]
244
00:12:37,966 --> 00:12:39,968
[Door slams]
245
00:12:40,051 --> 00:12:44,848
[Davidowitz] ...as if he had
no say in that family,
246
00:12:44,931 --> 00:12:48,977
because Mom knows better and
Dad knows better than you do.
247
00:12:49,060 --> 00:12:51,021
[Heavy metal music plays]
248
00:12:51,104 --> 00:12:54,274
And if you are miserable,
well, you'll get over it.
249
00:12:54,357 --> 00:12:56,026
And he wasn't getting over it.
250
00:12:56,109 --> 00:12:59,779
He was miserable.
It wasn't a fad.
251
00:12:59,863 --> 00:13:01,823
It wasn't just a little
period of time.
252
00:13:01,907 --> 00:13:03,408
He was miserable.
253
00:13:03,492 --> 00:13:06,161
[suspenseful music playing]
254
00:13:10,916 --> 00:13:18,423
♪♪
255
00:13:18,507 --> 00:13:23,428
There's piety that's good,
256
00:13:23,512 --> 00:13:27,015
and there's piety
that is self-serving.
257
00:13:28,850 --> 00:13:31,937
I'm very influenced
by my tradition
258
00:13:32,020 --> 00:13:35,440
for daily Mass and prayers
four times a day.
259
00:13:35,524 --> 00:13:37,734
That's part of who I am.
260
00:13:37,817 --> 00:13:42,989
But it does not absolve me
261
00:13:43,073 --> 00:13:46,451
from the realities
I see around me.
262
00:13:46,535 --> 00:13:50,205
I can't just pray them up
to God.
263
00:13:50,288 --> 00:13:53,833
I believe that she
was praying for her family
264
00:13:53,917 --> 00:13:58,088
and for herself and not seeing.
265
00:13:58,171 --> 00:14:00,340
And we all have blind spots
and we all have things
266
00:14:00,423 --> 00:14:02,634
we don't want to see.
267
00:14:02,717 --> 00:14:05,262
So obviously she was struggling
268
00:14:05,345 --> 00:14:07,806
and saw things perhaps that she
didn't know how to deal with.
269
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,018
[Speaking indistinctly]
270
00:14:12,102 --> 00:14:14,980
I remember
when she came to talk to me
271
00:14:15,063 --> 00:14:21,111
and I told her, "The children
are worried about your son."
272
00:14:21,194 --> 00:14:24,531
I said, "Some of what
he's talking about"...
273
00:14:24,614 --> 00:14:26,866
I think it's something
you might be interested in.
274
00:14:26,950 --> 00:14:30,537
...is about Satan
and his power."
275
00:14:30,620 --> 00:14:32,872
I said,
"I don't know everything,
276
00:14:32,956 --> 00:14:38,378
but I really encourage you
to talk to your son
277
00:14:38,461 --> 00:14:42,090
with your husband
over the next few days."
278
00:14:42,173 --> 00:14:45,176
And she said to me,
"Where's the rule book?"
279
00:14:46,928 --> 00:14:48,930
And I said, "Rule book?"
She said, "Yes.
280
00:14:49,014 --> 00:14:53,393
How do I raise children?
I don't know how to do it."
281
00:14:53,476 --> 00:14:54,769
I said, "There's no rule book."
282
00:14:57,355 --> 00:14:59,566
I had never been asked
about a rule book.
283
00:14:59,649 --> 00:15:02,110
And I'd been doing
the work for a long time.
284
00:15:02,193 --> 00:15:06,072
No parent ever said,
"Give me the blueprint.
285
00:15:06,156 --> 00:15:07,365
Give me the --"
286
00:15:07,449 --> 00:15:11,411
So that spoke volumes to me.
287
00:15:11,494 --> 00:15:14,372
If you are asking
for a rule book,
288
00:15:14,456 --> 00:15:16,416
you're in a lot of conflict.
289
00:15:17,876 --> 00:15:20,086
That was Thursday.
290
00:15:20,170 --> 00:15:22,964
He had killed his mother
on Saturday night.
291
00:15:23,048 --> 00:15:26,593
And somewhere before they found
him, he had killed himself.
292
00:15:28,637 --> 00:15:33,266
Truth be told,
I thought it was my fault
293
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:35,644
because I asked her
to talk to him.
294
00:15:38,063 --> 00:15:44,069
So my first thought was,
"This is on you."
295
00:15:44,152 --> 00:15:47,822
♪♪
296
00:15:50,116 --> 00:15:52,494
[Indistinct talking on TV]
297
00:15:52,577 --> 00:15:56,247
[McConley] Something horrible
happened in that house.
298
00:15:56,331 --> 00:15:59,376
I had a lot of questions and
a lot of -- a lot of confusion.
299
00:16:02,253 --> 00:16:06,007
I just know my gut feeling
that something didn't add up.
300
00:16:06,091 --> 00:16:07,926
It wasn't right.
301
00:16:08,009 --> 00:16:10,804
I felt that the father
was suspicious
302
00:16:10,887 --> 00:16:14,474
and maybe that knew more
than he had told us.
303
00:16:14,557 --> 00:16:17,310
I mean, I wasn't saying for sure
that he did anything.
304
00:16:17,394 --> 00:16:20,397
I don't know that for a fact,
but I felt
305
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,357
that he seriously needed
to be looked at as a suspect.
306
00:16:24,109 --> 00:16:25,568
[Speaking indistinctly]
307
00:16:25,652 --> 00:16:28,863
For a father to draw
a conclusion that quickly,
308
00:16:28,947 --> 00:16:32,033
to go from knowing nothing
to saying, "Get my son,"
309
00:16:32,117 --> 00:16:34,035
it just didn't make sense.
310
00:16:34,119 --> 00:16:36,204
That's what really threw me off.
311
00:16:36,287 --> 00:16:38,498
How do you know that?
You were sleeping.
312
00:16:38,581 --> 00:16:39,708
And now you know
your son murdered
313
00:16:39,790 --> 00:16:42,627
your wife and his mother?
314
00:16:42,711 --> 00:16:44,921
It just didn't seem right to me.
315
00:16:45,004 --> 00:16:48,133
And how did this kid come back
to the scene
316
00:16:48,216 --> 00:16:49,718
and cut his own throat
317
00:16:49,801 --> 00:16:51,219
with all the officers there
and everything?
318
00:16:51,302 --> 00:16:53,304
And he wasn't there
when we started the search.
319
00:16:54,848 --> 00:16:56,015
Something isn't right.
320
00:16:56,099 --> 00:16:58,852
Like, how did he reappear
right there?
321
00:16:58,935 --> 00:17:00,520
♪♪
322
00:17:17,912 --> 00:17:21,415
♪♪
323
00:17:27,338 --> 00:17:30,216
♪♪
324
00:17:39,225 --> 00:17:40,727
[Camera shutter clicks]
325
00:17:40,810 --> 00:17:42,812
The thing about
the Tommy situation is that...
326
00:17:42,896 --> 00:17:44,439
I don't know
that anyone's ever gonna know
327
00:17:44,522 --> 00:17:46,524
what actually happened,
328
00:17:46,608 --> 00:17:49,944
but I just don't see it
as possible that Tommy did it.
329
00:17:50,028 --> 00:17:51,529
It feels to me
that what makes much more sense
330
00:17:51,613 --> 00:17:56,910
is that Tom Sr. is the one
that killed Tommy.
331
00:17:56,993 --> 00:17:59,788
♪♪
332
00:18:03,041 --> 00:18:04,959
♪♪
333
00:18:07,212 --> 00:18:09,130
[McConley] I remember, like,
early in the morning
334
00:18:09,214 --> 00:18:10,924
writing my report.
335
00:18:11,007 --> 00:18:13,843
My report originally expressed
336
00:18:13,927 --> 00:18:20,183
that I felt the father was
a suspect, strongly felt that.
337
00:18:20,266 --> 00:18:23,520
And then if not, he knew
a lot more than he told us.
338
00:18:23,603 --> 00:18:25,396
The chief told me I was wrong,
339
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,358
that it was a homicide-suicide.
340
00:18:28,441 --> 00:18:32,070
I couldn't comprehend how
we'd determined that that quick.
341
00:18:32,153 --> 00:18:34,906
♪♪
342
00:18:45,834 --> 00:18:48,044
[Cies] Murder, suicide.
343
00:18:48,127 --> 00:18:50,797
It was almost like the police
couldn't comprehend it either,
344
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,674
but this seemed like
it made sense,
345
00:18:52,757 --> 00:18:56,386
so "let's just do this and get
it done with" type thing.
346
00:18:56,469 --> 00:18:58,930
And it just never felt right.
347
00:18:59,013 --> 00:19:00,515
I think that's part
of the reason
348
00:19:00,598 --> 00:19:02,350
why it's just never
really gone away.
349
00:19:02,433 --> 00:19:04,978
[Hart] I've certainly heard that
Tom Jr. couldn't have done this,
350
00:19:05,061 --> 00:19:07,647
that it was Tom Sr.
351
00:19:07,730 --> 00:19:11,359
I again look at it from
an investigator's standpoint.
352
00:19:11,442 --> 00:19:14,737
I've never seen any evidence
that would make that connection.
353
00:19:14,821 --> 00:19:17,532
[Davidowitz] The police didn't
think it was the father.
354
00:19:19,659 --> 00:19:21,035
When something is
incomprehensible,
355
00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,454
theories are always around.
356
00:19:23,538 --> 00:19:25,164
They're always around.
357
00:19:25,248 --> 00:19:27,166
When you don't understand
something,
358
00:19:27,250 --> 00:19:28,960
you got to come up
with something
359
00:19:29,043 --> 00:19:31,796
that to you makes sense.
360
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,800
'Cause a 14-year-old boy
brutally killing his mom?
361
00:19:35,884 --> 00:19:39,637
Unh-unh. It's got to be
the husband, right?
362
00:19:39,721 --> 00:19:41,639
That's usually the suspect,
363
00:19:41,723 --> 00:19:44,684
so it must have been the father,
even though it makes no sense.
364
00:19:48,354 --> 00:19:50,315
Tom.
365
00:19:50,398 --> 00:19:51,774
[Roth]
On the night of the murder,
366
00:19:51,858 --> 00:19:54,485
Thomas Sullivan Sr. provided
a detailed account
367
00:19:54,569 --> 00:19:58,323
of his whereabouts to police.
368
00:19:58,406 --> 00:20:01,492
He stated that, "He had not been
feeling well during the day."
369
00:20:01,576 --> 00:20:03,119
[Smoke alarm beeping]
370
00:20:03,202 --> 00:20:05,580
He was awakened
by the sound of a smoke alarm,
371
00:20:05,663 --> 00:20:07,457
and upon getting up
to investigate,
372
00:20:07,540 --> 00:20:10,376
he hears
the front door slam closed.
373
00:20:10,460 --> 00:20:12,045
As he exits the bedroom,
374
00:20:12,128 --> 00:20:14,964
he observes a small fire
on the living room floor
375
00:20:15,048 --> 00:20:17,050
and begins to stomp it out
376
00:20:17,133 --> 00:20:20,762
and uses a couch pillow
to beat at the flames.
377
00:20:20,845 --> 00:20:23,348
He is confused.
378
00:20:23,431 --> 00:20:26,684
He went across the street
to the Eastman home,
379
00:20:26,768 --> 00:20:30,146
banged on the door, and
requested help from Mr. Eastman.
380
00:20:32,607 --> 00:20:33,858
[Kennedy]
He went into the house.
381
00:20:33,942 --> 00:20:37,320
He's screaming for his family.
382
00:20:37,403 --> 00:20:38,780
At that time,
the younger son
383
00:20:38,863 --> 00:20:40,365
comes out of his bedroom,
384
00:20:40,448 --> 00:20:43,952
and Tom asked him if he saw
his brother and his mother.
385
00:20:44,035 --> 00:20:46,829
And he said, "Yeah, I saw Tommy
386
00:20:46,913 --> 00:20:49,374
and he was covered in blood."
387
00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:57,090
Brian's interaction with Tom Sr.
is just one more piece
388
00:20:57,173 --> 00:20:58,925
of the puzzle
that made Tommy a kind of
389
00:20:59,008 --> 00:21:01,177
a prime suspect or person
of interest.
390
00:21:02,762 --> 00:21:04,347
The night that this happened,
391
00:21:04,430 --> 00:21:07,475
there was certainly
enough bloodshed in the house.
392
00:21:07,558 --> 00:21:09,811
If Tom Sr. was responsible
for that,
393
00:21:09,894 --> 00:21:11,813
we would have had blood
on his clothes,
394
00:21:11,896 --> 00:21:14,232
blood on his hands,
blood on his face.
395
00:21:14,315 --> 00:21:16,693
And when the call
went into the arrival,
396
00:21:16,776 --> 00:21:18,569
couldn't have been more
than a few minutes.
397
00:21:18,653 --> 00:21:20,113
The idea that he, what --
398
00:21:20,196 --> 00:21:22,323
He would have killed
these two people,
399
00:21:22,407 --> 00:21:24,117
been covered in blood,
400
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,994
and then run into the house
and took a shower.
401
00:21:26,077 --> 00:21:28,037
And certainly,
402
00:21:28,121 --> 00:21:31,916
if Tom Sr. had been responsible
for killing Tommy Jr.,
403
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,668
there would have been
two sets of footprints
404
00:21:33,751 --> 00:21:35,962
going out to the body,
not just one.
405
00:21:36,045 --> 00:21:37,505
And it would have been
the same thing.
406
00:21:37,588 --> 00:21:39,382
There would have been a lot
of blood.
407
00:21:41,676 --> 00:21:44,303
I think people just have
a hard time accepting
408
00:21:44,387 --> 00:21:49,142
that that level of violence
could be perpetrated
409
00:21:49,225 --> 00:21:50,560
by a 14-year-old.
410
00:21:52,603 --> 00:21:54,897
And people
like to jump to a conclusion.
411
00:21:54,981 --> 00:21:56,399
"Tommy couldn't have done that.
412
00:21:56,482 --> 00:21:57,650
It had to be somebody else,"
you know.
413
00:21:57,734 --> 00:21:59,444
"It had to be somebody else."
414
00:21:59,527 --> 00:22:02,488
Well, the evidence in this case
415
00:22:02,572 --> 00:22:06,325
didn't support anybody else
but Tommy.
416
00:22:06,409 --> 00:22:07,952
♪♪
417
00:22:11,914 --> 00:22:15,084
[water rushing]
418
00:22:19,213 --> 00:22:20,923
[Roth] Within a few months,
419
00:22:21,007 --> 00:22:23,426
final autopsy reports
came back to say
420
00:22:23,509 --> 00:22:27,346
that Tommy Sullivan Jr. was not
under the influence of drugs,
421
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:29,432
and that the same knife
was used to kill
422
00:22:29,515 --> 00:22:32,060
both himself and his mother.
423
00:22:32,143 --> 00:22:34,395
So the case was
officially closed.
424
00:22:34,479 --> 00:22:36,981
Murder-suicide.
425
00:22:37,065 --> 00:22:39,901
But the questions
have always lingered.
426
00:22:39,984 --> 00:22:43,946
I can't explain everything
that happened.
427
00:22:44,030 --> 00:22:47,450
I can explain some of it.
I can accept some of it.
428
00:22:47,533 --> 00:22:52,205
But I don't have any better
an idea of what happened.
429
00:22:53,831 --> 00:22:57,126
There are things
that can't be explained
430
00:22:57,210 --> 00:23:02,131
and died with people
that are no longer with us.
431
00:23:04,050 --> 00:23:05,927
In a basic police report,
432
00:23:06,010 --> 00:23:07,887
there should be the primary
questions -- Who, what,
433
00:23:07,970 --> 00:23:10,515
where, when, and why?
434
00:23:10,598 --> 00:23:13,059
But we've never had the why,
435
00:23:13,142 --> 00:23:14,727
and we never got to ask
those questions
436
00:23:14,811 --> 00:23:16,145
or come up with answers.
437
00:23:17,814 --> 00:23:20,108
What cases like this bring up
438
00:23:20,191 --> 00:23:22,151
is, we often don't know
439
00:23:22,235 --> 00:23:24,529
what's going on inside
of somebody's head.
440
00:23:28,074 --> 00:23:33,830
My area of expertise
is kids who kill and parricide,
441
00:23:33,913 --> 00:23:35,998
which is kids who kill parents.
442
00:23:37,625 --> 00:23:41,295
The killing of a parent
is very, very personal.
443
00:23:41,379 --> 00:23:44,590
Killing the people
that gave you life --
444
00:23:44,674 --> 00:23:46,968
That's why it horrifies people.
445
00:23:49,262 --> 00:23:52,515
What we know about Tommy is,
he was a healthy kid.
446
00:23:52,598 --> 00:23:57,270
Good family, good community,
athlete, Catholic school.
447
00:23:57,353 --> 00:24:00,231
He was kind of privileged
in a lot of ways,
448
00:24:00,314 --> 00:24:03,317
but he's willing to trade all
of that to be with Satan.
449
00:24:05,820 --> 00:24:11,159
So what was going on with
that individual or in that home
450
00:24:11,242 --> 00:24:13,578
that things could
have ended so badly?
451
00:24:15,163 --> 00:24:18,291
Could there be,
for example, abuse?
452
00:24:18,374 --> 00:24:19,584
Maybe.
453
00:24:19,667 --> 00:24:22,795
Could he have been angry?
Yes.
454
00:24:22,879 --> 00:24:26,883
But if it were simply a matter
of responding to violence
455
00:24:26,966 --> 00:24:28,926
that he had experienced,
456
00:24:29,010 --> 00:24:32,263
I don't think we'd have
this Satanic element involved.
457
00:24:32,346 --> 00:24:36,100
Once you mix
in the Satanic involvement,
458
00:24:36,184 --> 00:24:40,855
you can't say, "Well, it was
only the abuse that drove this."
459
00:24:40,938 --> 00:24:45,151
When you start making pacts
with Satan,
460
00:24:45,234 --> 00:24:46,736
it's a whole different
ball game.
461
00:24:49,906 --> 00:24:54,869
Tommy was involved
in reading, drawings,
462
00:24:54,952 --> 00:24:57,371
learning about Satanism
463
00:24:57,455 --> 00:24:59,707
to the extent
of making what he believed
464
00:24:59,790 --> 00:25:01,125
to be a pact with Satan.
465
00:25:01,209 --> 00:25:02,668
I mean, that's extreme.
466
00:25:05,338 --> 00:25:08,257
[Horowitz]
Tommy's drawings bespeak anger,
467
00:25:08,341 --> 00:25:11,302
but there's a lot of adolescent
boys filled with anger.
468
00:25:13,137 --> 00:25:15,389
You could probably find drawings
like that
469
00:25:15,473 --> 00:25:18,434
in the notebooks of
a vast number of adolescent boys
470
00:25:18,517 --> 00:25:20,603
from that era
471
00:25:20,686 --> 00:25:24,732
who never acted out on any
of this stuff and never would.
472
00:25:26,275 --> 00:25:27,568
But he did act.
473
00:25:29,195 --> 00:25:31,656
I drew in my notebooks
the same way he did,
474
00:25:31,739 --> 00:25:34,492
and I have to confess,
475
00:25:34,575 --> 00:25:38,537
I feel a certain affection
and sympathy for Tommy Jr.
476
00:25:40,748 --> 00:25:43,626
He went down one path.
477
00:25:43,709 --> 00:25:45,336
I went down another.
478
00:25:45,419 --> 00:25:48,172
[Indistinct whispering]
479
00:25:48,256 --> 00:25:50,716
What was it in his life
480
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,011
that went in such
a violent direction
481
00:25:54,095 --> 00:25:56,305
that my life did not go in?
482
00:25:56,389 --> 00:25:57,974
[Indistinct whispering]
483
00:26:02,812 --> 00:26:06,816
[Heide]
With Tommy, we have to ask,
484
00:26:06,899 --> 00:26:08,734
why did it take a violent turn?
485
00:26:11,028 --> 00:26:12,697
When I look at those drawings
486
00:26:12,780 --> 00:26:16,325
and I read those letters
to Satan,
487
00:26:16,409 --> 00:26:18,077
and I look at the background...
488
00:26:20,830 --> 00:26:24,959
...the strongest evidence
from a clinical perspective
489
00:26:25,042 --> 00:26:29,213
is that Tommy, at 14,
490
00:26:29,297 --> 00:26:31,299
was severely mentally ill...
491
00:26:31,382 --> 00:26:34,010
[Tom Sr.] You do not have a life
outside of this house!
492
00:26:34,093 --> 00:26:39,348
[Heide]...and experiencing
likely some type of psychosis.
493
00:26:39,432 --> 00:26:41,309
[Betty Anne] Why can't you
just be a good boy?
494
00:26:41,392 --> 00:26:43,102
Like I said...
[ Heavy metal music plays ]
495
00:26:43,185 --> 00:26:46,647
Psychosis means being
out of touch with reality,
496
00:26:46,731 --> 00:26:49,650
having delusions
and bizarre beliefs
497
00:26:49,734 --> 00:26:51,986
with no basis in reality.
498
00:26:52,069 --> 00:26:53,863
[Gasps]
499
00:26:53,946 --> 00:26:55,781
Whether it was
a psychotic episode
500
00:26:55,865 --> 00:26:58,451
or childhood schizophrenia...
501
00:26:58,534 --> 00:27:00,745
[Indistinct arguing]
502
00:27:04,999 --> 00:27:09,170
...without treatment,
it's a ticking time bomb.
503
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,011
[Roth] In the '80s, mental
health was a taboo subject.
504
00:27:17,094 --> 00:27:18,971
Therapy was something
that the rich did,
505
00:27:19,055 --> 00:27:21,515
or if you had suffered
a traumatic event,
506
00:27:21,599 --> 00:27:24,477
it wasn't something
that was openly discussed.
507
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,062
If something was off,
508
00:27:26,145 --> 00:27:27,521
if you were struggling,
509
00:27:27,605 --> 00:27:29,732
if you were feeling dark
or angry or just lost,
510
00:27:29,815 --> 00:27:31,525
who did you turn to?
511
00:27:31,609 --> 00:27:34,487
Your friends?
They'd make jokes about it.
512
00:27:34,570 --> 00:27:36,947
Adults?
They'd tell you to toughen up.
513
00:27:37,031 --> 00:27:38,783
There were no resources
or guidance
514
00:27:38,866 --> 00:27:40,201
for dealing with those feelings.
515
00:27:40,284 --> 00:27:42,161
So you kept them to yourself...
516
00:27:42,244 --> 00:27:44,080
buried deep down.
517
00:27:44,163 --> 00:27:46,374
But here's the thing.
518
00:27:46,457 --> 00:27:48,334
When you keep stuff
like that bottled up,
519
00:27:48,417 --> 00:27:49,627
it doesn't stay quiet.
520
00:27:49,710 --> 00:27:51,462
It festers.
521
00:27:51,545 --> 00:27:53,506
And when it's left
to rot in the dark,
522
00:27:53,589 --> 00:27:55,674
it poisons
everything it touches.
523
00:27:55,758 --> 00:27:56,926
[Switch clicks]
524
00:27:57,009 --> 00:27:58,302
[Man laughs]
525
00:28:00,638 --> 00:28:03,557
[Heide] It's my belief
526
00:28:03,641 --> 00:28:09,522
that psychosis could lead an
individual to do such an extreme
527
00:28:09,605 --> 00:28:12,024
and unthinkable act.
528
00:28:12,108 --> 00:28:14,485
[Betty Anne] I told you to go
to bed hours ago.
529
00:28:14,568 --> 00:28:16,404
[Heide]
Tommy was so immersed...
530
00:28:16,487 --> 00:28:18,155
I'm going down here, Tommy.
531
00:28:18,239 --> 00:28:20,408
...in Satanism
and destructive themes.
532
00:28:20,491 --> 00:28:22,284
[Tom Jr.] Leave me alone!
533
00:28:22,368 --> 00:28:26,288
If we take, you know, the fact
that his thinking is disordered,
534
00:28:26,372 --> 00:28:28,207
which is part of psychosis...
535
00:28:28,290 --> 00:28:31,168
He has delusions.
536
00:28:31,252 --> 00:28:33,087
[Betty Anne] I don't know
what to do anymore.
537
00:28:33,170 --> 00:28:36,090
[Tom Sr.] You do not have a life
outside of this house!
538
00:28:36,173 --> 00:28:37,758
[Heide]
In this case, the delusions
539
00:28:37,842 --> 00:28:40,428
are that he's in a pact
with Satan...
540
00:28:40,511 --> 00:28:42,221
How are we supposed
to help him?
541
00:28:42,304 --> 00:28:44,765
He won't talk to me.
542
00:28:44,849 --> 00:28:48,352
...and that Satan
is gonna reward him,
543
00:28:48,436 --> 00:28:50,020
and, in turn, for power,
544
00:28:50,104 --> 00:28:52,606
he's gonna do the killing
of the family.
545
00:28:52,690 --> 00:28:56,110
♪♪
546
00:28:59,530 --> 00:29:03,409
Tommy killed his mother
with a Boy Scout knife.
547
00:29:04,910 --> 00:29:07,288
Boy Scout knives
are pretty small,
548
00:29:07,371 --> 00:29:10,708
so that suggests to me
549
00:29:10,791 --> 00:29:13,961
a lot of effort
to get those kinds of wounds
550
00:29:14,044 --> 00:29:15,754
with a little knife...
551
00:29:15,838 --> 00:29:18,716
which suggests a lot of anger.
552
00:29:20,593 --> 00:29:22,553
He may have been dissociated,
553
00:29:22,636 --> 00:29:28,184
which means that when somebody
is so overwhelmed with feeling
554
00:29:28,267 --> 00:29:30,186
that they just keep going,
555
00:29:30,269 --> 00:29:31,604
it's almost like
automatic pilot.
556
00:29:34,773 --> 00:29:37,860
The aggression fuels
the release of stress hormones.
557
00:29:37,943 --> 00:29:40,321
The cycle then propels
more aggression,
558
00:29:40,404 --> 00:29:45,576
and people don't stop until
typically, they're exhausted.
559
00:29:45,659 --> 00:29:47,411
[Breathing heavily]
560
00:29:47,495 --> 00:29:49,788
[suspenseful music playing]
561
00:29:49,872 --> 00:29:51,790
[buzzing]
562
00:29:56,378 --> 00:30:01,592
[Heide] The brother said
Tommy was very fidgety.
563
00:30:01,675 --> 00:30:04,637
He's hyped-up.
Well, I mean, I'd expect that.
564
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,890
I'm thinking he's just, like,
on automatic pilot,
565
00:30:07,973 --> 00:30:10,518
and that would fit in
with the dissociation.
566
00:30:10,601 --> 00:30:13,771
Sort of like, you know,
just moving,
567
00:30:13,854 --> 00:30:16,357
just going through motions.
568
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:17,733
♪♪
569
00:30:17,816 --> 00:30:21,195
[Footsteps]
570
00:30:21,278 --> 00:30:23,864
When I heard Tommy
committed suicide...
571
00:30:25,616 --> 00:30:30,204
And it's actually not uncommon
in cases of parricide
572
00:30:30,287 --> 00:30:34,124
that the assailant
will kill himself afterwards.
573
00:30:36,377 --> 00:30:41,131
When I was informed about
how he killed himself,
574
00:30:41,215 --> 00:30:43,968
I'm thinking of the intensity
and the pain,
575
00:30:44,051 --> 00:30:45,427
which would be extreme.
576
00:30:47,972 --> 00:30:50,975
When somebody
is really dissociated,
577
00:30:51,058 --> 00:30:53,936
the stress level is so acute.
578
00:30:55,938 --> 00:30:58,232
He's not gonna be
in good contact
579
00:30:58,315 --> 00:31:01,694
with feelings and thoughts.
580
00:31:01,777 --> 00:31:04,738
He's just not
in good reality contact.
581
00:31:04,822 --> 00:31:06,657
He's just not there.
582
00:31:06,740 --> 00:31:10,536
[Man] They say he fought with
his mother, then stabbed her.
583
00:31:10,619 --> 00:31:12,788
[Davidowitz] I think he was
a very, very sick boy.
584
00:31:12,871 --> 00:31:15,791
Wo[Man] He went into a rage,
stabbed his mother to death.
585
00:31:15,874 --> 00:31:20,796
[Sighs] I know that [Sighs]
586
00:31:20,879 --> 00:31:25,426
this boy committed murder.
587
00:31:25,509 --> 00:31:28,762
That's horrible.
588
00:31:28,846 --> 00:31:31,181
But I feel for him.
589
00:31:31,265 --> 00:31:33,350
I feel for this little boy.
590
00:31:34,852 --> 00:31:36,228
He needed help.
591
00:31:38,147 --> 00:31:39,565
He needed help.
592
00:31:41,066 --> 00:31:43,360
And obviously, he didn't get it.
593
00:31:44,820 --> 00:31:47,531
[Fleck]
It just makes me so sad to think
594
00:31:47,615 --> 00:31:51,660
that a 14-year-old
could have been so...
595
00:31:53,370 --> 00:31:55,080
...haunted.
596
00:31:55,164 --> 00:31:59,293
Not realizing he had
any lifelines.
597
00:31:59,376 --> 00:32:01,170
That makes me very sad.
598
00:32:03,047 --> 00:32:06,050
[Morgan] Nobody realized
that he was in crisis.
599
00:32:06,133 --> 00:32:08,886
And as a parent now, for me,
600
00:32:08,969 --> 00:32:14,350
that's far more terrifying than
any alleged demonic possession
601
00:32:14,433 --> 00:32:15,809
or Satanic influence.
602
00:32:15,893 --> 00:32:17,519
[Applause]
603
00:32:17,603 --> 00:32:20,022
Washington Township residents
packed an auditorium tonight
604
00:32:20,105 --> 00:32:21,815
to hear more about Satanism.
605
00:32:21,899 --> 00:32:24,902
Did the Satanic Panic
or some of the other cases
606
00:32:24,985 --> 00:32:28,238
that were floating around at
the time kind of feed into this?
607
00:32:28,322 --> 00:32:29,782
I would say probably yes.
608
00:32:29,865 --> 00:32:31,825
[Man]
The Satanic message is clear,
609
00:32:31,909 --> 00:32:34,328
both in the album covers
and in the lyrics.
610
00:32:34,411 --> 00:32:36,664
[Hart] People in the community
611
00:32:36,747 --> 00:32:37,915
were looking
for something to blame.
612
00:32:37,998 --> 00:32:39,208
I think it's a problem.
613
00:32:39,291 --> 00:32:40,501
You can call it the boogeyman.
614
00:32:40,584 --> 00:32:41,877
You can call it the devil
or you can call --
615
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,254
something
to hang a label on,
616
00:32:44,338 --> 00:32:47,257
to blame for what happened.
617
00:32:47,341 --> 00:32:49,593
You can't prevent
mental illness.
618
00:32:49,677 --> 00:32:52,805
You can hope to treat it,
you know,
619
00:32:52,888 --> 00:32:55,307
but you can't prevent it.
620
00:32:55,391 --> 00:32:57,393
But Satanism?
621
00:32:57,476 --> 00:33:00,604
[Man] The question in
everyone's mind seems to be,
622
00:33:00,688 --> 00:33:03,148
how widespread
is this Satan business?
623
00:33:03,232 --> 00:33:04,733
[Woman] It makes you wonder,
you know,
624
00:33:04,817 --> 00:33:06,193
if it can't happen
to your child.
625
00:33:06,276 --> 00:33:09,697
[Horowitz] Humanity enjoys
looking for an enemy,
626
00:33:09,780 --> 00:33:12,825
but whole books have
been written
627
00:33:12,908 --> 00:33:14,827
discrediting
the Satanic Panic.
628
00:33:14,910 --> 00:33:18,205
Most infamously,
Geraldo Rivera spoke about it.
629
00:33:18,288 --> 00:33:21,041
It's teenagers
who are most likely to fall
630
00:33:21,125 --> 00:33:23,669
under the spell
of this jumble of dark,
631
00:33:23,752 --> 00:33:25,671
violent emotions
called Satanism...
632
00:33:25,754 --> 00:33:27,673
[Horowitz]
...and has recently apologized
633
00:33:27,756 --> 00:33:30,467
for having participated
in the Satanic Panic,
634
00:33:30,551 --> 00:33:33,053
blaming Satan or the devil.
635
00:33:33,137 --> 00:33:36,181
Satanism gives people
a false sense of calm
636
00:33:36,265 --> 00:33:40,269
that they have an enemy
that is easy to identify.
637
00:33:40,352 --> 00:33:43,188
Blame it on horror movies,
Ozzy, and Judas Priest.
638
00:33:43,272 --> 00:33:44,773
It's much easier.
639
00:33:44,857 --> 00:33:48,026
But a broken home
with an alleged abused kid,
640
00:33:48,110 --> 00:33:49,611
a lonely child --
641
00:33:49,695 --> 00:33:53,949
That's a story that we
should be looking to learn from.
642
00:33:54,032 --> 00:33:57,494
Whether you believe
in occultism,
643
00:33:57,578 --> 00:33:59,747
whether you believe
that Satan has power,
644
00:33:59,830 --> 00:34:03,041
whether you believe that Satan
can give you the things
645
00:34:03,125 --> 00:34:05,669
that he's promising these kids,
646
00:34:05,753 --> 00:34:07,463
that's immaterial, my friend,
647
00:34:07,546 --> 00:34:08,672
because they believe it.
648
00:34:11,091 --> 00:34:14,719
[Heide] Is Satanism
inherently dangerous?
649
00:34:14,803 --> 00:34:16,429
Probably not.
650
00:34:16,513 --> 00:34:20,768
But if that becomes
one's solution to problems,
651
00:34:20,851 --> 00:34:23,270
that's -- that's dangerous.
[Door slams]
652
00:34:23,353 --> 00:34:24,813
[Heavy metal music plays]
653
00:34:24,897 --> 00:34:28,484
You can't take Tommy
out of the times.
654
00:34:28,567 --> 00:34:31,195
This was part of the culture.
655
00:34:31,277 --> 00:34:33,405
And it wasn't just
the pop culture.
656
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:38,534
The fact that Tommy
was raised in a Catholic family,
657
00:34:38,619 --> 00:34:40,245
I think, is important
658
00:34:40,329 --> 00:34:44,917
because Satan
was something that existed.
659
00:34:46,460 --> 00:34:49,797
So it was easy to understand
660
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:55,052
how a mentally ill juvenile
with a lot of anger
661
00:34:55,135 --> 00:34:56,553
believed he was
writing to Satan.
662
00:34:56,637 --> 00:34:58,472
[Indistinct whispering]
663
00:34:58,555 --> 00:35:02,059
♪♪
664
00:35:06,563 --> 00:35:11,318
[Fleck] I think Tom
Jr. tried God
665
00:35:11,401 --> 00:35:14,780
and didn't get the answers
he wanted,
666
00:35:14,863 --> 00:35:21,912
and so he turned
to another source of power.
667
00:35:21,995 --> 00:35:25,457
♪♪
668
00:35:27,668 --> 00:35:30,212
♪♪
669
00:35:33,215 --> 00:35:34,800
Later that week...
670
00:35:34,883 --> 00:35:36,301
I'm so sorry.
671
00:35:36,385 --> 00:35:40,055
...Tom Sr. and Brian
came to talk to me
672
00:35:40,138 --> 00:35:41,932
about what had happened.
673
00:35:42,015 --> 00:35:44,768
No one should ever
have to go through this.
674
00:35:44,852 --> 00:35:48,647
I was afraid
to see the father
675
00:35:48,730 --> 00:35:51,316
because of my feeling
676
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,654
that perhaps I had caused this.
677
00:35:55,737 --> 00:36:00,868
I had asked Betty Anne to talk
to Tom Jr. about Satan.
678
00:36:03,161 --> 00:36:06,331
Did she talk to him
and those were the consequences?
679
00:36:07,791 --> 00:36:10,544
We didn't listen to you.
680
00:36:10,627 --> 00:36:12,880
Tom said to me right away...
681
00:36:12,963 --> 00:36:15,132
I wish I had listened.
682
00:36:15,215 --> 00:36:18,844
..."You told us
and we didn't listen."
683
00:36:18,927 --> 00:36:21,054
[Sighs]
684
00:36:21,138 --> 00:36:25,517
And then I knew
my first thought was wrong,
685
00:36:25,601 --> 00:36:27,102
that it was my fault.
686
00:36:28,770 --> 00:36:31,023
That was, for me,
a graced moment
687
00:36:31,106 --> 00:36:33,901
because he was able to free me
688
00:36:33,984 --> 00:36:37,112
from what I thought
perhaps had happened.
689
00:36:37,195 --> 00:36:41,366
He gave me that gift,
and I was so grateful.
690
00:36:45,913 --> 00:36:49,082
I just feared for Brian.
691
00:36:50,792 --> 00:36:54,546
Brian was barely able
to function.
692
00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:58,800
I found out
that he saw his brother
693
00:36:58,884 --> 00:37:01,845
after he killed his mother
694
00:37:01,929 --> 00:37:04,139
with his mother's blood
on his hands.
695
00:37:04,222 --> 00:37:07,017
Tommy?
696
00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:08,685
He did say this to me --
697
00:37:08,769 --> 00:37:10,854
"My brother told me
to go back to bed.
698
00:37:12,940 --> 00:37:16,693
And the look on his face,
I went back to bed."
699
00:37:19,237 --> 00:37:24,576
I can only imagine his horror.
700
00:37:26,370 --> 00:37:31,750
The demons that must have
haunted him about all of it.
701
00:37:36,380 --> 00:37:39,091
I couldn't even imagine
living Brian's life.
702
00:37:39,174 --> 00:37:42,970
Brian had to live with the fact
that the only details
703
00:37:43,053 --> 00:37:46,181
that are known up until
the last minute of Tommy's life
704
00:37:46,264 --> 00:37:48,850
before he dies
are in Brian's head.
705
00:37:48,934 --> 00:37:50,143
He's the last person.
706
00:37:50,227 --> 00:37:53,146
[Woman vocalizing]
707
00:37:53,230 --> 00:37:55,482
I mean, I don't know
how you would live with that.
708
00:37:55,565 --> 00:37:56,858
♪♪
709
00:38:00,487 --> 00:38:02,739
♪♪
710
00:38:16,753 --> 00:38:18,005
[Door closes]
711
00:38:18,088 --> 00:38:19,923
♪♪
712
00:38:34,855 --> 00:38:37,691
♪♪
713
00:38:52,956 --> 00:38:56,752
[Davidowitz] He lost his mother.
He lost his brother.
714
00:38:56,835 --> 00:39:01,339
I can't imagine that he wasn't
terribly damaged by this.
715
00:39:01,423 --> 00:39:03,842
Just look at this case
716
00:39:03,925 --> 00:39:08,472
and it's just layers and layers
and layers of sadness.
717
00:39:10,891 --> 00:39:13,518
The first thing I thought about
when I heard about Brian was --
718
00:39:13,602 --> 00:39:15,896
I'm like,
"Does this ever go away?"
719
00:39:15,979 --> 00:39:17,981
[Woman] A small new Jersey
community stunned
720
00:39:18,065 --> 00:39:20,025
by a Satanic murder-suicide.
721
00:39:20,108 --> 00:39:21,777
When a person passes on,
722
00:39:21,860 --> 00:39:25,322
the energy of the individual
still remains.
723
00:39:25,405 --> 00:39:27,407
[Woman] Setting fire
to the family house
724
00:39:27,491 --> 00:39:29,910
in an attempt to kill
his brother and his father
725
00:39:29,993 --> 00:39:32,412
were all linked to Satanism.
726
00:39:32,496 --> 00:39:33,914
[Scherlacher]
Spirits have to go somewhere.
727
00:39:35,749 --> 00:39:37,834
They just don't disappear.
728
00:39:37,918 --> 00:39:40,087
They wreak havoc in other lives.
729
00:39:40,170 --> 00:39:42,589
[Siren wailing]
What occurred in Morris County
730
00:39:42,672 --> 00:39:45,008
on that night in 1988...
731
00:39:45,092 --> 00:39:46,676
[Man]
Washington Township residents
732
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,970
packed an auditorium tonight
to hear more about Satanism.
733
00:39:49,054 --> 00:39:51,014
...not only affected Tom
and his mother
734
00:39:51,098 --> 00:39:52,933
and his brother and his dad --
735
00:39:53,016 --> 00:39:55,727
I can tell you that each person
736
00:39:55,811 --> 00:39:58,480
whose life was touched
by that event
737
00:39:58,563 --> 00:40:00,816
carries it to this day.
738
00:40:03,235 --> 00:40:04,778
[eerie tone playing]
739
00:40:06,530 --> 00:40:09,699
[Heide] Probably the hardest
thing about this story
740
00:40:09,783 --> 00:40:13,995
is just the effects on everyone.
741
00:40:14,079 --> 00:40:16,998
It's a small town.
742
00:40:17,082 --> 00:40:19,584
I mean, this --
this will live on
743
00:40:19,668 --> 00:40:21,461
in the fabric
of their community,
744
00:40:21,545 --> 00:40:22,671
I would think, forever.
745
00:40:26,883 --> 00:40:28,593
[Morgan] I am haunted.
746
00:40:28,677 --> 00:40:32,430
Haunted in the sense
that it's 35 years
747
00:40:32,514 --> 00:40:33,765
that I haven't been
able to shake it.
748
00:40:33,849 --> 00:40:34,850
You know?
749
00:40:34,933 --> 00:40:36,977
[car passing by]
750
00:40:39,729 --> 00:40:42,232
[Sighs]
751
00:40:42,315 --> 00:40:44,651
What happened to me
as a 19-year old boy
752
00:40:44,734 --> 00:40:46,319
being put in that situation,
753
00:40:47,863 --> 00:40:49,990
it really stuck with me.
754
00:40:50,073 --> 00:40:52,617
I had a tough time.
755
00:40:52,701 --> 00:40:54,619
I couldn't sleep.
756
00:40:54,703 --> 00:40:57,581
I wanted things to be good
for them.
757
00:40:57,664 --> 00:40:59,749
Yeah, it was tough.
758
00:41:03,503 --> 00:41:05,338
[Hart] Not many years ago,
759
00:41:05,422 --> 00:41:09,968
I recall a conversation with
Chuckie and how it affected him.
760
00:41:10,051 --> 00:41:15,932
He apparently struggled
with issues in his adult life.
761
00:41:16,016 --> 00:41:19,519
You would have to think that
it would have been difficult.
762
00:41:19,603 --> 00:41:21,688
To be honest with you,
I lost touch with Chuck,
763
00:41:21,771 --> 00:41:23,648
but I remember him being hit.
764
00:41:23,732 --> 00:41:26,067
Like, it resonated
differently with him,
765
00:41:26,151 --> 00:41:27,652
like it resonated with me.
766
00:41:27,736 --> 00:41:29,946
For me, it was 'cause
he was my neighbor next door,
767
00:41:30,030 --> 00:41:31,364
and because we had hung out
768
00:41:31,448 --> 00:41:33,575
and he and Chuckie
had had that relationship
769
00:41:33,658 --> 00:41:35,911
where it definitely resonated
strongly with him.
770
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,957
I just recently learned that
Chuck also committed suicide.
771
00:41:42,334 --> 00:41:45,670
I was surprised and saddened
to hear that he'd passed away.
772
00:41:47,756 --> 00:41:50,967
You don't see
those things often happen
773
00:41:51,051 --> 00:41:53,220
in small communities like this,
774
00:41:53,303 --> 00:41:56,723
and when they do,
they're not easily forgotten.
775
00:41:56,806 --> 00:41:59,142
You wonder how many
of the other friends
776
00:41:59,226 --> 00:42:01,895
are sitting around all these
years later still, you know,
777
00:42:01,978 --> 00:42:04,898
thinking about, "Well, maybe
if I had said something."
778
00:42:04,981 --> 00:42:07,234
Or maybe they just buried it.
Who knows?
779
00:42:08,735 --> 00:42:11,071
[indistinct police radio
chatter]
780
00:42:15,825 --> 00:42:17,744
[McConley] Everybody knew
that I was the one
781
00:42:17,827 --> 00:42:19,037
that found the bodies in town.
782
00:42:21,331 --> 00:42:24,000
So people would ask me
and I would just,
783
00:42:24,084 --> 00:42:27,128
"Yeah, yeah, it was terrible,"
you know.
784
00:42:27,212 --> 00:42:29,923
Like, how do you talk
to somebody that didn't see it?
785
00:42:30,006 --> 00:42:31,174
You know what I mean?
786
00:42:33,677 --> 00:42:35,095
As far as what I saw...
787
00:42:37,555 --> 00:42:40,392
...you know, I kind of, like,
blocked that out.
788
00:42:40,475 --> 00:42:43,520
I don't know.
Just kind of buried it.
789
00:42:43,603 --> 00:42:45,522
Like, I never got
no counseling or nothing.
790
00:42:47,274 --> 00:42:51,361
Now that I'm a born-again
Christian, it makes more sense.
791
00:42:51,444 --> 00:42:54,948
I truly believe now
that Satan played a part in it.
792
00:42:55,031 --> 00:42:57,909
That wasn't God's work.
793
00:42:57,993 --> 00:43:01,871
Everything evil that happens,
Satan's involved with.
794
00:43:01,955 --> 00:43:04,291
I mean, you can call him
whatever you want.
795
00:43:04,374 --> 00:43:06,501
Um, if you really,
truly believe in God,
796
00:43:06,584 --> 00:43:08,545
then you believe in Satan.
797
00:43:08,628 --> 00:43:10,547
You can't believe in one
without the other
798
00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:11,756
if you read the Bible.
799
00:43:14,050 --> 00:43:17,554
[Children shouting playfully]
800
00:43:17,637 --> 00:43:22,350
♪♪
801
00:43:22,434 --> 00:43:23,768
[Roth] The community
of Jefferson
802
00:43:23,852 --> 00:43:26,980
is still haunted
by this mystery.
803
00:43:27,063 --> 00:43:30,650
Why did Tommy kill his mother
and himself?
804
00:43:31,943 --> 00:43:35,196
Was it the devil whispering
promises of power and violence?
805
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,866
[Man] "To the greatest demons
of hell, I, Tom Sullivan,
806
00:43:37,949 --> 00:43:40,577
would like to make
a solemn exchange with you."
807
00:43:40,660 --> 00:43:44,664
[Laughs]
808
00:43:44,748 --> 00:43:48,126
Do I believe in the possibility
of supernatural forces?
809
00:43:48,209 --> 00:43:49,544
[Man] [Distorted voice]
Sign below.
810
00:43:49,627 --> 00:43:52,672
Absolutely. Absolutely.
811
00:43:52,756 --> 00:43:54,549
There are dark forces
out there,
812
00:43:54,632 --> 00:43:57,761
and there are people
that are gonna succumb to--
813
00:43:57,844 --> 00:43:59,179
you know, to the devil.
814
00:43:59,262 --> 00:44:01,014
[Indistinct whispering]
815
00:44:01,097 --> 00:44:03,475
[Betty Anne screams]
816
00:44:03,558 --> 00:44:06,061
Sometimes evil wins.
817
00:44:06,144 --> 00:44:08,396
Or was it a mind
pushed to the edge...
818
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:09,939
[Betty Anne]
Satanism? Really?
819
00:44:10,023 --> 00:44:11,858
...breaking under the weight
820
00:44:11,941 --> 00:44:14,944
of something we can't fully
know or understand?
821
00:44:15,028 --> 00:44:16,321
Leave me alone!
[Door slams]
822
00:44:17,947 --> 00:44:20,241
[Morgan] The really scary part
of it for me
823
00:44:20,325 --> 00:44:24,746
is that a 14-year-old kid could
be angry enough to do this.
824
00:44:24,829 --> 00:44:27,248
There's true evil out there.
825
00:44:27,332 --> 00:44:30,210
It doesn't have to be, you know,
supernatural or anything.
826
00:44:30,293 --> 00:44:32,003
[Crying]
827
00:44:32,087 --> 00:44:34,714
I think he was a very,
very sick boy.
828
00:44:34,798 --> 00:44:36,841
[Morgan] And he needed help.
829
00:44:36,925 --> 00:44:39,177
You don't even talk
to me anymore.
830
00:44:39,260 --> 00:44:42,680
This story has captured
the imagination of people
831
00:44:42,764 --> 00:44:45,642
trying to understand
or explain the unexplainable.
832
00:44:47,977 --> 00:44:52,649
'Cause no one can really
explain the nature of rage...
833
00:44:54,067 --> 00:44:57,821
...or what's really going on in
the mind of a 14-year old kid.
834
00:44:57,904 --> 00:45:00,865
[suspenseful music playing]
835
00:45:07,664 --> 00:45:09,999
[Roth] What keeps us all up
at night
836
00:45:10,083 --> 00:45:13,545
is that no matter how safe
our world feels around us,
837
00:45:13,628 --> 00:45:16,714
there's always that malevolence
creeping in the shadows.
838
00:45:16,798 --> 00:45:19,050
And you never know
when it's going to strike.
839
00:45:19,134 --> 00:45:21,594
[indistinct police radio
chatter]
840
00:45:21,678 --> 00:45:23,054
But why the Sullivans?
841
00:45:23,138 --> 00:45:24,389
[Dogs barking]
842
00:45:24,472 --> 00:45:26,850
The truth is,
we'll never know,
843
00:45:26,933 --> 00:45:31,271
because the only person that
can give us answers is Tommy.
844
00:45:31,354 --> 00:45:33,148
And he has disappeared
845
00:45:33,231 --> 00:45:36,234
into the silence
of his own tragic end.
846
00:45:36,317 --> 00:45:38,695
[Woman vocalizing]
847
00:45:38,778 --> 00:45:41,114
[suspenseful music playing]
848
00:45:43,700 --> 00:45:47,287
♪♪
849
00:45:51,458 --> 00:45:55,545
[eerie piano music playing]
850
00:45:58,798 --> 00:46:06,431
♪♪
851
00:46:06,514 --> 00:46:14,397
♪♪
852
00:46:14,481 --> 00:46:23,490
♪♪
853
00:46:23,573 --> 00:46:27,619
♪♪
854
00:46:27,702 --> 00:46:29,662
[Woman vocalizing]
855
00:46:29,746 --> 00:46:39,589
♪♪
856
00:46:39,672 --> 00:46:42,342
♪♪
857
00:46:42,425 --> 00:46:44,385
♪♪
63723
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