Original subtitles

[haunting music]

♪ ♪

- Six months have passed

since the brutal killings on November 13th.

Crime tape still surrounds the property.

The trash is still exactly how it was that night.

The home is stuck in time.

Four killings shrouded in mystery...

so many unanswered questions.

♪ ♪

And as the world waits for answers,

Bryan Kohberger sits in a local Moscow jail.

- Are you guys ready for the latest on Bryan Kohberger?

Because... ♪ Oh, my God! ♪

Bryan Kohberger was indicted by a secret grand jury.

- AKA, like, being formally charged.

- Grand juries are secret proceedings.

You can't attend them.

The defense attorney's not allowed in them.

- They call a grand jury of 16 members,

and then the prosecution presents the evidence,

or their case, their side.

- In grand juries, there's only one side--one side!

The prosecution gets to tell their story, and that's it.

You can indict a ham sandwich. That's how easy it is.

It's a scam.

- That secret grand jury right there

just proved that Kohberger will not receive a fair trial.

- How did they get a impartial grand jury?

- It's too small of a pool to pick from, okay?

There's only 40,000 people in Latah County,

and everybody knows and dislikes Kohberger there.

- And we heard this before-- that Mr. Kohberger

knows there's evidence to exonerate him.

- We have a source close to the case who tells us

Bryan Kohberger has a strong alibi.

- He really could be innocent.

- The exact motive at this point is still unclear.

- Come Monday morning,

Bryan Kohberger will be in court.

- Kohberger is going to have the stage to make a plea.

- How do you want to plead, babe?

How do you want to plead? Tell us.

We want to know. Guilty or not guilty?

♪ ♪

- Today is May 22, 2023,

at 9:00 a.m.,

right in front of the Latah County Courthouse,

where Bryan Kohberger was scheduled for an arraignment.

- I never went up there and saw somebody refuse to plea.

I never seen it.

Kohberger's attorney, she says that she believes

the grand jury indictment should be dismissed.

- She said the grand jury was impaneled at a time when

the small community of Moscow, Idaho,

had been exposed to six months of intense local, national,

and international media coverage.

- You know, everybody heard about the case.

I mean, everybody in that county.

The world's heard about this case.

So, yes, it's going to be hard to find an impartial jury.

- Even after Bryan Kohberger's arrest,

people were just, like, spinning all these theories.

I mean, the worst-case scenario

in terms of sleuthing

negatively affecting

the University of Idaho case would be a mistrial.

Bryan Kohberger's defense could leverage some of the publicity

around his arrest and all of that stuff

as something that could cause bias.

- If you have someone who is capable of this type

of murder, who walks on technicalities because

of the circus that was created around a case,

the damage is incalculable.

- And then she said the shocker--

that Mr. Kohberger knows there's

evidence to exonerate him.

- Mr. Kohberger knows that exculpatory evidence exists.

That's interesting.

- Now, could the defense just be fishing?

We're going to have to wait and see.

- This is evidence that likely will come

out in court at some point.

- But until a trial, until we hear all the evidence,

we got to weigh the facts.

- We just got the official trial date

for Bryan Kohberger-- October 2, 2023, this year.

Let the countdown begin, babe.

♪ ♪

- I'm just going to jump right into it.

I'm still here on location in Moscow.

There is the water tower right behind me.

So what I wanted to talk to you guys about today

is the new documents that the defense has released.

♪ ♪

And they're a bombshell.

- The document reads that there is

no DNA from the victims found in Bryan Kohberger's car,

apartment, home, or office.

- There's no other DNA.

- Nowhere. There's none.

Also says that there's three unidentified male DNAs

that were found in Maddie's room, right here.

- They have provided full discovery

for the knife sheath,

but not the other three

unidentified male DNA samples.

- To the extent that they don't have them, they weren't done.

- "DNA from three men, mystery glove found at crime scene,

says lawyer."

- Two male DNAs were found within the home

and the other one was found outside, it says, "on glove."

- This was basically done with blinders on.

They only focused on one suspect,

and they did not look at other potential suspects.

- If they came across someone

that was unwilling to give up their DNA,

would the defense even know about it?

Not with this fucking police department.

- To me, they kind of verify

what I have been theorizing for a while--

is that there was multiple people involved there.

- We all know the PCA had holes

and not everything adds up.

And while the prosecution hasn't provided any more

evidence against Bryan Kohberger,

his defense is telling us that there's other male DNA

at the scene, which means they're trying

to argue that either Bryan is innocent

or he didn't do this alone.

♪ ♪

Hey, guys.

So right now it is exactly seven months since the murders

on November 13th.

I travel with my mother. She comes with me.

I can only do so much by myself.

And I've always wanted someone to film me.

Like, on my TikTok, you never see my face.

My YouTube, you never see my face.

And I think for the first time,

people are seeing Chronicles of Olivia.

They're seeing who's the girl behind the camera.

It's me.

We got some documents that were released

that said that there is no connection

between Bryan Kohberger and the victims.

The victims' DNA was not found in his car, in his apartment,

nowhere, and it just brings up a lot of questions.

Why was there no DNA found?

Did he clean his car very thoroughly?

Did he use anything that--like, Clorox?

It just opens up a bunch of new questions.

Another one is, do you think that the defense

is using people like us, internet sleuths,

to talk about all these things and create all these theories

and create this internet frenzy?

- Anne Taylor has been very strategic in the words

she's used in each of her filings.

- Do you think there might be a chance

she's using social media to create reasonable doubt?

- She does these writings in a particular way--

certainly to ignite social-media talk.

She wants to make a social-media narrative

that will benefit her client.

[cell phone ringing]

- So, over the past few months,

I've been working with Steve Goncalves,

Kaylee's father,

to help him find answers about his daughter's murder.

Hey, Steve. How's it going?

We would talk several times a week for several months.

And even to this day-- like, I was just talking

to him, like, 15, 20 minutes ago.

We share information with each other.

Out of the blue one night, he was calling me,

and he told me this just insane story.

♪ ♪

Steve receives a phone call from this man in jail.

His name is Jeff.

♪ ♪

Jeff said that he knew someone

who was with Bryan Kohberger,

that he and Bryan Kohberger

went to 1122 King Road

on November 13th to rob someone.

And this individual gave Jeff a backpack.

And he said, take this backpack and discard it.

And Jeff opened it.

And when he looked inside, there was a black knife,

and there was clothing with blood on it.

- 99.9% of the people on the Internet

that want to solve this case have no idea

what this case is about.

They say, I got this tip from a family member.

Where did the family member get the tip?

And where did that person get the tip from?

Unless you vet it and you know for a fact

and you have documentation,

you have nothing.

- I want to pursue that lead,

but I'm really--

something is really holding me back.

Jeff seems, like, sketchy.

I ran background checks on them,

and, obviously, Jeff is in jail.

I'm torn between should I pursue this or not.

[upbeat music]

- So we're going to need to, obviously, look into Jeff.

We need to find out who, what, when, where,

what's his background.

Maybe you do social media, I'll do background?

- Yeah, I'm going to do social media.

That's kind of, like, my thing. - Yeah.

- He has multiple Facebook accounts.

♪ ♪

Major sketch vibes.

This guy's trouble.

- Here it is. He's in Kuna, Idaho.

He's currently in custody.

I've got his inmate number and his correctional facility.

This guy looks like he is a career criminal.

- Yeah, yeah.

- And so, with that, you know, we have to take

into consideration that he sees Steve and say,

is this my ticket out? - True.

- How am I going to use this for my advantage?

I've got his correctional facility and the phone number

to call, so if you'd like to call the facility

here and just ask them how we can

schedule visitations with him.

[line trilling]

- ISCI visiting. This is Chester.

How can I help you?

- Hi, I am looking to speak to an inmate.

I was wondering how do I go about setting up an interview.

Do I say I'm a journalist or just, like--

- Yeah. - Does it matter?

- I mean, what it is, is we're just--

- Okay. Well, who are you with?

- So we're just--

what we're trying to do is we're

just trying to meet with him on a story that we're covering.

And we were just hoping that maybe if we reached out

to him, he'd be willing to meet with us over the phone

or by video just to cover a story, that's all.

- Can I ask who I'm speaking with?

- So my name is Andra-- - And who you're with?

- Sure. My name is Andra Griffin.

And I'm from Florida,

and I'm from the Bullhorn Betty channel.

And I'm here with Chronicles of Olivia,

another channel related to just doing a story.

- Is that a podcast or--

- Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

- So you're with media, then.

- That's correct. That's correct.

And we're independent.

- Okay, that's what I've asked you,

and you kind of beat around the bush there.

That's what I'm trying to get out of you,

to figure out who this is.

- Go to the Idaho Department of Corrections website.

- Mm-hmm. Oh.

- And you may be able to email him directly.

- You've been so helpful. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much. - Thank you so much.

- All right, so...

"Dear Jeff, Steve Goncalves reached out

"to us about the story you told him

"about the possible second person with Bryan Kohberger

"and would like to know if you are willing to speak

with us about what happened."

Got this, and we're going to send.

All right, guys, it has been sent.

- That's it. Well, and now we wait.

[dramatic music]

[soft music]

- Right now we just don't know if Bryan Kohberger is

innocent or guilty, because we certainly

haven't seen a single shred of evidence

that says he's guilty.

- Around sort of 2015,

when "Making a Murderer" first came out,

people became very interested in crime stories

where there seemed to be someone

who may have been wrongly accused or wrongly imprisoned.

You would think that Bryan Kohberger's

arrest would have quieted the sleuthing community.

I was shocked

but also not surprised to see that it only

seemed to energize them more.

- So this is what the mainstream media is telling us,

okay, is that through here, one person,

allegedly Bryan Kohberger, walked in there, took out

four people in eight minutes, and walked out

leaving no blood trail.

- You know, it's very easy to go on YouTube

and attack "the media" because "the media" is not fitting

your narrative.

- What the mainstream media and law enforcement

are telling us ain't jiving.

- People don't want there to be an end because then

they would have to sign off.

- [mockingly] You guys, it's only Bryan Kohberger.

It's only Bryan Kohberger.

[normal voice] You don't know if Bryan Kohberger

is the only one that did this. - They don't want answers.

They just want to continue to stir the pot.

[dramatic music]

♪ ♪

- We learned today that prosecutors

will seek the death penalty against Bryan Kohberger.

♪ ♪

- So Bryan Kohberger's defense team goes,

hey, there's other male DNA sources found in the house.

- The prosecution comes back with,

oh, we're pursuing the death penalty.

We're not going to respond to any of your claims

about us not having a case.

We don't care if we don't have any evidence.

We're going to fry that motherfucker.

♪ ♪

- Kaylee and Madison's parents say

they want to go full forward

with the D penalty on this case.

- They said that if he wanted to play God,

he needs to meet God.

- Justice doesn't have

a room where you can read books,

and you can go to school,

and you can have, you know, three meals,

and you can have your vegan diet.

To me, that's not justice.

Justice is when you leave the planet.

- Kohberger, if found guilty, faces the death penalty,

which here in the state of Idaho

means possibly a firing squad.

♪ ♪

- There's such a huge possibility

that he didn't act alone.

What if he wasn't the one that did the killings

and he gets executed?

You think anybody ever is going to admit to that?

Hell, no.

♪ ♪

- Oh, my gosh, he wrote back.

♪ ♪

- Hi.

- You're not going to believe this, Jeff from jail

wrote back.

- No way. - Yes.

He says, I'm willing to talk to you.

You will be the only one I will talk to.

So I'm, like, freaking out here.

And I've got to tell you that there's been people--

Our audience swears that there's got to be two people.

How did one person take out four people in nine minutes?

This might be a legit lead.

♪ ♪

I don't know what's going on here.

I don't know how to use this system.

Oh, wait, there it is. Can you hear me?

Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry.

Can you hear me now? - That's okay.

- How are you doing, Jeffrey?

Steve reached out to us a little while ago

and said that you had some really interesting information.

- I don't know if that's good or not.

- I'm Bullhorn Betty. Hold on.

Oh, okay.

And that's what Steve was referring to as the backpack?

Two backpacks, okay.

Can you tell us who the accomplice is?

- I'm, like-- - Oh--

Okay, so we lost him. That sucks.

But I keep trying to find out, what is his angle?

Why would he want to interject himself into this case?

- I don't know.

He didn't talk about Bryan at all.

- It doesn't feel truthful.

It seems like there's an ulterior motive.

♪ ♪

- Truly, this case, I think, weighs on a lot of us.

And it is so serious, and there is

so many unanswered questions that when someone comes in

that, like, just says something

that feels very accurate,

it's like, tell us more, you know what I mean?

- ♪ I see money ♪

♪ I see money ♪

One night somebody with a literal dot as a username

started commenting that Bryan Kohberger

was being set up.

I was like, hi, I don't know who you are, but tell us

more about what you're saying.

- I was at a party, you know, at the apartments nearby.

At around 3:00 a.m., I heard a really, really--

a scream that was like somebody

was being mauled by a bear.

- I found out Dot was this college student that

was at a party right next door the night before

and had heard things.

- This anonymous person named "Dot"

told Brat on a private phone call that they were friends

with one of the surviving roommates,

that had told police that they saw the killer

in the house the night of the murders.

The surviving roommate told the police

that they were in a "frozen shock phase"

and that is why they didn't call the police

right after they saw the killer.

♪ ♪

- And then I woke up in the morning

to go outside because we're not allowed

to smoke in the apartment.

And I went outside to smoke a cigarette.

It was, like, maybe 8:30.

And there were about five people congregating outside,

and they were all passing around a joint, smoking weed.

- So Dot is claiming that they saw the surviving roommate

smoking with a group of friends outside the morning

after the murders.

And this is before the police were even called.

- So you're telling me this girl did not see any blood,

did not see anything, walked outside,

smoked some weed with her buddies,

and nothing's going on, right?

If that is the truth, then the PCA

is a bunch of crap, which we already knew,

because, A, she's not in a frozen shock phase, obviously--

she can go outside and smoke weed, so...

Plus, allegedly, those kids are laying there dead

for four and a half hours.

That's a problem.

- Okay, so this is just a theory.

But if Dot's story is true, would that mean

that the surviving roommate didn't call the police

because they were trying to help other people

possibly cover up the crime?

- They're lying.

They have created a narrative to protect something

or somebody or themselves.

- Would that maybe even suggest that they were trying

to frame Bryan Kohberger?

- I don't think they have anything to do with this

because the police cleared them.

So I don't think they're involved.

I think there's an explanation that we don't know.

- Do you still talk to some of the surviving roommates?

- Yeah. And a lot of people criticize her.

And she was directed, she was coached,

she was...

pressured into, like, coming

to a conclusion about things.

- So Dot is basically saying that the surviving roommate

lied to police

after being coached by other people.

- This is a little bit dangerous territory.

Go to the FBI.

Go to the law enforcement.

Don't come to YouTube and spread your gossip.

- You know, I had reached out to the FBI.

I reached out to Anne Taylor. I told Steve.

Like, I did all I could.

It was becoming, like, too much for me.

I need you to, like, handle it.

Turn yourself in, go to law enforcement, you know,

tell them.

And I can't force somebody to do that.

- Is this you, Dot? Hello?

- Hello.

- Hello, Dot, nice to meet you.

How are you today? - I've had better days.

- Okay.

- I think the most important thing

was, like, the emotion behind it.

This was not just some, hi, I'm so-and-so,

and this is my story.

I mean, this was scared, sobbing, calling me frantic.

I mean...

- I didn't ever talk to anybody

because I wanted for there to be any drama or anything.

I thought I was doing something

that would be helpful.

And now I have all these people

thinking these things...

[sniffles] About me, and, like,

I just want it all to stop, that's all.

[crying] Like, if people don't believe me, that's okay.

Like... [sniffles] I just want it all to stop.

- Those are raw, real emotions.

I don't believe somebody can fake that.

- So I do have to ask you a question.

So Brat claims that you know who did it

and that they planned it for months and that you were--

I don't want to say involved, but at the scene.

- Right.

- Can you elaborate on that, if that's--

- Yeah. I can't--I don't want to speak on that right now.

- Fair enough. - I'm going to--

I'm going to refrain from speaking on that...

- That's fine. I understand.

- To protect myself and her.

- Okay. - It makes no sense.

I mean, it would seem to me that if you needed help now,

now would be the time to go to the authorities

with the information.

If what that person is saying--

if what that person is saying you said is false,

then that's a different story.

- Brat has nothing to do with what

I'm speaking about right now.

I don't understand the vibe.

- Well, that's the only reason--wait a minute.

Wait a minute. That's the only reason you're in here.

It's the only reason you're in here is because this girl

is saying that you made a statement that's so profound

that it would change the entire aspect of this case.

- I was terrified.

When I found out what happened, I was terrified.

I legit was terrified.

I didn't want anything to do with the town or anybody.

- They have the wrong guy, then.

- Exactly. Thank you.

- The story is wrong. - May I ask you a question?

- Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Take a minute.

- I mean, we're forgetting about--

that there's people's lives at stake here.

- My life is at stake here, too.

[dramatic music]

- I really appreciate you coming on,

and I hope you have a wonderful evening.

Okay? - Thank you.

You too as well.

- Thanks, Dot.

- All right, guys, I got a little fucking nuts,

but, hey, it is what it is, so... [chuckles]

- The story didn't add up.

They kept changing their story, kept changing little details.

And most of the time, people miss that.

- Riley, are you here? - Yeah.

- Hi, Riley, how are you? - Hi.

I knew that they weren't telling the truth,

I knew that they were lying, and I wanted to prove it.

I've always been leery of people

who are under faceless accounts or pseudonyms

or aliases that claim to have information,

because in the past, I've helped with different cases

where, hey, I thought this person had stuff,

and they seemed legit, and it was all BS.

- Riley's a professional troll hunter.

She's out here exposing frauds, the ones that

are lying or trying to insert themselves

into certain discussions like this for attention.

She loves to debunk fake stories.

- Now, I'm going to tell you who Dot is, okay?

They have fabricated this entire story

to help push misinformation

that Bryan Kohberger is innocent

and other people might be responsible.

I think people do want relevancy.

They want views. They want engagement.

They want to be more than what they are.

I'm going to jump off here and listen,

but, yeah, good to meet y'all. - All right.

Thank you for your input. I really appreciate that.

- Not a problem. - Thank you.

So what happened, basically, last night

is that after my live, Dot went on to Brat Norton's TikTok,

and it was a complete circus over there.

- The Riley Lively, like, I would love

for her to come on right now, and I don't say it--

- Oh, my God, Dot. - To mean any drama.

But I would love if she hears this to come on.

- Dot got a little cocky, a little confident,

and went on a live with Brat Norton,

and wanted me to get in the box and was like,

Riley, I want to say something to you.

And I was like, all right.

All right, Dot, here's your wish.

- Riley!

- Even before I called them out, they were yelling at me.

- Are you going to get the funds

for a lawyer to protect me

when I have to go into witness protection?

- Look, no one's outing you. - No, no, no, no, no!

No, no, no, no, no, no!

- And a lot of times

when you're getting close to the truth,

people like that get very aggressive.

- Stop running your mouth!

- Listen-- [interposing voices]

- You're not going to protect me.

- She did a cam slip.

She accidentally showed her face,

and she is not 22 years old.

- They gave themselves away.

I'm like, who is this?

Like, that's not the person that we thought it could be.

I'm like, who is that?

When they went live in the chat, they were like,

Brayden, why are you trolling the true-crime

and trafficking community?

Brayden, why are you doing this?

Brayden, why are you lying about being on campus?

And then someone would say, shh, don't say his name.

Hmm, who's Brayden?

This Dot messed up.

They went live and showed their face.

Anyone with info, send it to me.

[dramatic music]

♪ ♪

Ladies and gentlemen, meet Brayden...

a long-time troll of various creators across TikTok,

who spews lies.

- I was in shock.

I--Well, I was in shock.

Of course, I'm getting a lot of backlash for this, right?

However...

I go into everything with, like, good intentions.

And, again, how am I supposed to verify any of this, right?

- If you're putting this out there,

you are taking responsibility for that information

going out to the public.

Whether it turns out to be a lie, and it's Dot's fault,

you're still responsible.

- You say everything about me, you talk about me,

you degrade me, you put me down,

but I'm not allowed to speak my mind?

I'm not allowed to speak how I feel?

- What about how the families of the victims feel?

How do you think the entire community of Moscow feels?

- There's a whole thing in this community, where these trolls

come in to try and get other--

other crime sleuths to recognize them as real,

to prove that the true-crime community are idiots.

- Yeah. - Like, they do it on purpose.

And so their goal is to come in--

- You're welcome. [chuckles]

♪ ♪

- I want more debunkers out there.

I'm hoping there's, like, ten other people who are like,

oh, I'm good at that, too.

That'd be cool.

Okay, do it, help me, 'cause I need help.

[laughing] Like, I want more people to debunk.

In the true-crime community,

there's bound to be criminals, right?

So, for weeks now, I've been doing

a deep dive into JLR,

which is Jonathan Lee Riches on YouTube.

I'm sure if you guys follow true crime,

you probably have heard the name before.

- Where did the knife come from?

- JLR has been the "boots on the ground" guy.

- I've been covering this case extensively.

I got sources all around the case that are talking.

- But he's also been sharing anonymous-source information...

- My sources told me that this was going to happen.

- And things he alleges are true.

But with his questionable past, I don't know if they are.

- This is Jonathan Lee Riches, a prolific serial fraudster.

- As you might or might not know,

you know, I've been

through the criminal justice system myself.

- He went to prison for ten years for wire fraud.

I believe they did a phishing scam,

which was kind of unheard of at that time.

- During the time in federal prison,

I would go to the law library.

I was trying to appeal my case, because I thought

my sentence was unjust.

Going in the law library, I would

read about criminal cases, and I became fascinated.

- He allegedly holds the world record for the highest number

of frivolous lawsuits filed.

- And that just got me hooked on to it

and understanding about, you know, how the law works.

- Sometime later he went to Sandy Hook,

pretending to be the shooter's uncle.

Gave an interview for the news.

- You know, one of the things I've learned over the years

is the media kind of interviews people

at the scenes of things,

but they don't fact-check who they're interviewing.

And that just proved my own point, like, whoa,

these people don't fact-check.

That just validated it.

- Was it right? Was it wrong?

I think it was a big middle finger to mainstream media.

- Would I do it now? Probably not.

You know, that was a phase in my life.

It was an era in my life.

And it made me grow as a person.

I feel like I haven't done that in four or five years.

Like, I've really got away from that area

and took more of a serious approach of what I'm doing

and stuff like that.

Jonathan Lee Riches Investigates.

But, of course, I do get discredited

and people remind me of my past.

- We all kind of have a past.

My past is not that good.

Granted, I wasn't charged with, you know, white-collar crimes,

and I'm not a felon.

I, you know, own and possess a gun.

I have a concealed-weapons permit, and I can vote, but--

- I think in this cyber-sleuth community,

a huge majority have criminal records.

- We all know that con men and social media--

the Tinder Swindler-- you know, that

there's, you know, catfishing

and all of these various things.

Any time that there's crowds and money,

there will be con men.

- Hey, guys, so we got another email

from the guy Jeff in jail

that Betty and I had video-chatted with.

He claims to know of an accomplice

that helped Bryan Kohberger the night of the murders.

- "These people that are really responsible,

"they're dangerous,

"and it would be easy for me to be gotten.

"They also know where people I love live and work,

so this scares the shit out of me."

"Write me a support letter for the parole board

or money on my books"?

What does that have to do with doing the right thing?

"I had some thoughts about reaching out to Nancy Grace

"just because I figure she would pay

someone to go on her show."

- Money. - Mm-hmm.

- What do you think?

- You want my honest opinion? - Yeah.

- I think it's BS.

He appeared to want something from this,

because why did it take him so long to come forward?

I just don't trust people that go to prison,

and I don't trust people that have the kind of...

charges he has and the kind of convictions he has,

because I know that they have one goal and one goal only--

getting out of jail.

♪ ♪

- "Hey, guys.

"I will tell Steve what Jeff told us

"and then submit this info to the FBI.

"I'm still going to try and find

"the 'alleged accomplice'

but I really do sense that Jeff is lying."

- Let's do a really quick recap.

There is a 99.998% match

of DNA from the suspect, Kohberger,

to the knife sheath.

We know that there's phone data that shows

his location and timeline.

And they even have an eyewitness survivor--

one of the roommates.

- So what do we still not know in the case?

- The motive.

- And the exact motive at this point is still unclear.

[keys clacking]

- There has to be more than these girls

were just beautiful and he wanted to take them out.

I mean, there's got to be something.

- Is he connected to previous murders?

Is he a possible serial killer?

- Becca said she does not think this is his first time.

Becca, I tell you, in the beginning of this,

I would have said you were probably wrong,

but I'm starting to think that's something

they got to look into-- I agree with you.

- I definitely believe he has a lot of victims.

I just don't believe that this was his first and his only.

- But tonight I can report to you exclusively

that authorities in Pennsylvania,

where he was arrested,

are investigating potential involvement

in other outstanding homicides.

- Jonathan Lee Riches Investigates.

I am in Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, Monroe County.

This location right here--

there's a makeshift memorial for Dana Smithers,

a 45-year-old,

who vanished May 28, 2022,

around 11:05 p.m.

She was last seen leaving her friend's home--

Tara, her neighbor.

Dana was recently found in the woods right here.

Was it Bryan Kohberger

who murdered Dana Smithers?

- And it just so happened that he had moved

around that same time to WSU.

And it's crazy, because one of my TikTok followers--

she and her sister, I believe, went to school

with Bryan Kohberger,

and they also knew Dana Smithers.

- His parents have been subpoenaed

to testify in front of the grand jury in Monroe County.

- There are reports

Bryan Kohberger's father, Michael,

testified before a grand jury at this courthouse

in Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, today.

His mother, Maryann, reportedly testified earlier this week.

Kohberger attended DeSales University,

about 50 miles from Smithers' home,

but he is said to have a watertight alibi

absolving him of any role in the mom's death.

Stroudsburg police say they have no evidence

Dana Smithers' disappearance is in any way

tied to Bryan Kohberger.

- No evidence Kohberger tied

to Dana Smithers' missing-person case.

♪ ♪

- Subscribe to my channel.

Like, hit the notification button.

JLR, "Boots on the Ground,"

getting inside of who this guy is.

Who is Bryan Kohberger?

- Is this guy an incel? - Yeah, probably.

- Take a look at this guy.

Would it surprise you to see him,

that face staring in your bathroom window?

Because it would not surprise me.

- [laughing, screams]

- There's some speculation that Bryan Kohberger

might fit the profile of an incel.

And incels are involuntary celibates--

they call themselves that-- and they congregate

on sites like 4Chan,

where there's just a ton of misogyny and racism.

And they really firmly believe

that the government should appoint them sexual partners.

And if he was an incel, what would have happened, I think,

is that he would have seen

these young women living these lives,

he would have seen Ethan and Xana loving each other,

and it would have made him so angry

because he felt like they were ignoring him

or that they represented a pattern in his life

of women ignoring him.

♪ ♪

- Maybe he idolizes Elliot Rodger.

You know who I'm talking about? - Mm-hmm.

- The misogynistic asshole

that murdered women.

Think about it-- Elliot Rodger, Pappa Rodger.

- Many people believe Pappa Rodger

is Bryan Kohberger.

- I don't know. Maybe.

You think so?

- There have been, you know, rumors that he followed

the victims on social media

and potentially even messaged one of them.

- Bryan Kohberger follows Kaylee Goncalves on Instagram.

He also follows Maddie Mogen.

He does not appear to follow Xana,

and Ethan's profile is private.

- As this information comes out,

I have to tell you, more and more, it is looking like,

if it's true, he did--

or was stalking the girls.

♪ ♪

- Bryan Kohberger's behavior at the school

had been flagged by Washington State University.

Several students complained about Kohberger's rank sexism

to the school,

caused WSU to conduct a harassment-training seminar,

according to somebody who had to be part of it.

Kohberger was later fired from that job.

- Okay, so we just learned that Bryan Kohberger

was fired from his teaching-assistant job.

- Scott Bond,

who is a serial-killer expert and author,

said that he thinks that Bryan basically

reached his tipping point

and had to act out these fantasies,

which, again, going back to having disciplinary action

as the TA, could indicate that he was not quite himself

because he was possibly too obsessed--

this part is just speculation--

too obsessed with the idea of doing these killings.

♪ ♪

- "Bryan Kohberger harassed women

at Pennsylvania brewery."

The brewery is the Seven Sirens Brewing Company.

That's the owner who did this interview.

He said that Kohberger would ask women,

staff, or customers,

who they were with at the brewery, where they lived.

If the women weren't interested,

he would get upset with them a little bit.

In one incident, the owner recalled,

he called an employee a--

You can read that.

- The B word at this bar.

And the owner had to come in and put Bryan in his place

and just deal with him.

- So today is the big day that Bryan Kohberger

is required to make his statement on his alibi.

[keys clacking]

- Kohberger has an alibi!

- He does?

- No, he doesn't.

- Yeah, he does.

He says he'll give it to them whenever he feels like it.

- The deadline for court paperwork has come and went.

It had to be submitted, Idaho time, 5:00 p.m.

It's almost 10:00 p.m.--about to turn in for the night.

- Where is this alibi?

Ms. Taylor, where is the alibi?

- I am sure that Berger's defense team

is going to try to debunk the pings,

the phone pings in some way.

- Like, how can you fight his, like, phone pings?

Like, where is he going to say he was?

- What are they going to say, he was out shopping?

- Well, then I'm sure he has credit-card transactions

or receipts to prove it, and he has nothing to worry about.

I need the receipts.

- And a good defense attorney can take that little bitty

shred of something and turn it into a whole new story

in favor of their client.

- The bizarre new alibi

for the man accused of brutally stabbing

four University of Idaho students,

saying he was out driving alone late at night.

Kohberger's lawyer says he can't point to any witness

to corroborate where he was.

- Is that a strong alibi? - No, it is not.

- This is one of the biggest

"what the fuck" moments of this case.

- It's funny but not funny,

- His "alibi" is that he likes to drive alone at night.

And that's, like, his habit.

So no alibi.

- They have no defense,

so they're just coming up with stuff.

- An alibi defense is not, I simply

wasn't there at the time.

It's you must provide specifically

where you were--time, place.

Also, if you have any witnesses.

- My client likes to drive around at night alone

without his phone on.

[chuckles derisively]

The Kohberger defenders are kind of just fading away.

[laughs]

- You got to remember that the guy is

innocent until proven guilty.

Social media, he's guilty

and already tried and convicted.

Some sites think he's not guilty

and he should be released.

So it all comes down to the evidence.

- The prosecutor has disclosed all

of the evidence and information that they have,

and it is a lot.

They turned over

51 terabytes of data--

emails, social-media accounts, voice mails,

phone recordings, all the things.

I mean, that is a lot of information.

- The YouTubers and the social-media groups

created a lot of what is probably

in those 51 terabytes.

I truly believe the defense will likely take

one of these very popular conspiracy-type theories

and try to develop it through the trial

to cause reasonable doubt.

- I think what's going on and what happened

and what has been happening in that town

is a huge...

organized,

multiple-part criminal activity.

- I mean, people on the Internet will say anything,

will offend, will speculate,

will come up with theories.

- You know what the problem is?

In our country, everything's a conspiracy, okay?

They get to talk about, it's a conspiracy, it's a conspiracy.

- But until this trial begins

and we're able to see the evidence, hear the evidence,

it's impossible to come up with theories

that make any sense at all.

- Do you think we're going to go to trial in October?

- No. No.

No, no, no, no, we're not going to trial in October.

You're going to start seeing delay tactics.

They're going to be trying to really delay, delay, delay.

[dramatic music]

- He waived his right to a speedy trial.

So now there is a delay, folks.

- The trial of quadruple-murder suspect Bryan Kohberger

has been indefinitely delayed.

His attorneys requested the delay, saying they need

more time to prepare their defense.

- Boom!

[dramatic music]

- As of August 23, 2023,

Bryan Kohberger has decided to waive

his right to a speedy trial.

His trial will not be happening

in October of this year.

- I myself am ready to see justice be served,

and I'm sure that all of the families are

and everyone close to them,

so I can imagine this is very disappointing news.

- I can't even imagine the pain that the families

are feeling right now and the fact that they're going

to have to wait that much longer

to get their day in court and to maybe even fully hear

what happened to their loved ones.

- It's going to be very hard for all of us

to go through that.

The families don't want to be in a process that's

going to take that long before we see the evidence, you know.

We want to see the evidence.

We want to know how strong the case is.

When do we stop with hiding all these things?

I mean, let's get the process going.

I mean, there's nothing more painful to the family

than just to sit around doing nothing.

- These were kids with all of their hopes

and dreams and aspirations.

And they had family members who adored them.

At the end of the day, it's so important to remind

people who these victims were.

- [sighs]

Maddie, Kaylee, Ethan, and Xana,

they were going to go on to do really special things.

They had bright futures ahead of them.

- This is a very tragic case that

has impacted far beyond the community of Idaho and Moscow.

We're all here trying to find answers to something

that makes no sense.

That said, I think cases like this one

show us just how careful we have to be

in finding truth.

♪ ♪

- With an active investigation, there are pros

and cons with social media.

The pros is getting spotlight to the story.

And when you have millions of people talking about it,

then more people are going to know about it.

- And let's keep this story alive.

We can do it. We can...

- You know, being interested in true crime

is neither good nor bad.

It's a human instinct

that has been around for, you know, centuries.

But if sleuths really do want to help,

they should focus their attention

on quietly accruing evidence

and sharing that evidence with police,

rather than perpetuating rumors.

Many sleuths can cause a lot of chaos.

- People get on a roll and get fired up

and start doing this, oh, yeah.

And then it becomes this, like, angry mob

of people with pitchforks.

- Cyber sleuthing is here to stay.

And I think police really need to try to embrace it.

- They can fight it all they want,

but they're going to have to realize social media

is not going anywhere.

I'm not going anywhere.

And you probably want to play in the sandbox nice with me.

- I look forward to covering this trial

to understand really what the police have

on Bryan Kohberger,

whether there was or not an accomplice,

whether anybody else knew something.

- But for right now, there's no narrative

that tells you how this happened.

There's no motive.

- All I can think is, where there is darkness,

there is space for speculation.

♪ ♪

- Holy fucking shit, guys, you will never believe who's back.

- The original, the OG Pappa Rodger account

has been reactivated on Facebook.

- So a lot of people are now under the impression

that Pappa Rodger

is definitely not Bryan Kohberger,

because he's posted something on Facebook

since Bryan's arrest.

- I'm dying right now.

Who the F is Pappa Rodgers?

Someone that is Pappa Rodgers

would have to be close enough to the investigation

because of all the info that they have, right?

- And a lot of people in the comments

are saying that it could be JLR.

His nose has been in this case right from the get-go--

- So Pappa Rodger was never Bryan Kohberger.

- Or it is law enforcement

because of all the info that they have.

- It would make sense.

- It could have been reopened and reactivated--

- This has got me all fucked up.

- And if you're watching this video,

this is the start of something

mother-effing major.