Original subtitles

[Det. Sandra Brown] For more than 20 years

there are people that Vladimir Pokhilko

killed his family, then killed himself.

But I have never been comfortable with calling this

a, a murder-suicide.

Everything I've learned since

tells me there's so much more to this case.

And so I needed to come back to the Bay Area

because this is where it happened.

because this is where it happened.

I wanted to see the house

to remember if that's how I saw it.

Did I see what I thought I saw back then?

It's like a puzzle...

...and the puzzle pieces are not fitting.

-Tetris. -Tetris.

-Tetris. -Tetris.

Very addictive.

Over the years,

after the murders,

Tetris became more than the video game.

I think the biggest peak

was clearly that Game Boy Tetris cartridge combination

back in the late '80s.

The second big peak

happened when everyone started to get smartphones.

What game works better on a phone than Tetris?

[Brown] When we got Tetris on the cellphones, it was so fun.

You're having a cup of coffee at the coffee shop

waiting for someone and you're playing Tetris.

More than 500 million copies of Tetris

More than 500 million copies of Tetris

have been downloaded on mobile devices,

and that has made Tetris, you know,

inescapable in the smartphone era

when a lot of other game franchises from, like,

the early days were not able to make that transition.

[female reporter] Tetris clearly gives players that dopamine rush

which keeps them coming back for more.

Were the most addictive video game of all time?

[Ben Mullen] Pick, as an example,

some song by Justin Bieber,

it's really popular for a year, right?

And then you compare it to songs by Beethoven,

songs by Beethoven is popular just forever.

songs by Beethoven is popular just forever.

And that's how Tetris is, it's popularity is eternal.

To this day,

one of the most popular video games that there is.

To give you an idea of how popular this became,

the original version of Tetris

is part of the permanent collection

at the Museum of Modern Art.

[Dan Ackerman] And over the years,

the inventor Alexey Pajitnov

has really come to understand that his brand

is tied into the Tetris brand,

is tied into the Tetris brand,

and Alexey basically acts

as a spokesperson for Tetris.

But after the murders,

people involved in the game

are very reluctant to talk about

his friend and business partner, Vladimir.

He was definitely white washed out of that history of Tetris

and the culture behind it.

[Brown] This is the house, right there.

This is where the crime occurred

This is where the crime occurred

in 1998.

I haven't been here in several years.

I, I feel it, I can sense it,

I can smell it.

There was a child in there.

That's, that's what brings it to me right now.

That's what makes me feel [shudders]

like my skin is crawling a little bit.

So I'm thinking

right now, since it's been a while,

I'm thinking, "I wanna go

I'm thinking, "I wanna go

knock on the door and see if anyone's home

and ask them if they'll talk to me."

This house is not the house that we were originally in

for crime back in 1998, but it's very close to it.

So what I'm gonna show you is my impression

of what was going on in this house

when we walked through, so.

There as a long central hallway,

there were some rooms off of it.

The first room we came to is where we found Elena.

The victim was on the bed,

lying on her side, sort of facing the wall,

you could see some damage,

some blunt force damage to her head, towards the back,

and then you could see some stab marks,

uh, in, on her back.

And there was a hammer on the floor.

So when we came out of this room,

we went down the hall...

...to the bathroom.

And we found evidence of, uh, clean-up.

And we later discovered that

the weapons had all been wiped down.

Now this bedroom here,

this was Vladimir's office,

there was a desk, and on the desk

we found what we would consider a suicide note.

we found what we would consider a suicide note.

Note he had written or somebody told him to write.

"I am being eaten alive."

And in this room, Vladimir was laying on the ground.

And on that bed was the victim, uh, Peter.

You could see blunt force trauma on his head,

uh, his body was partially covered in the corner,

and there was hammer on the floor.

Vladimir was prone on the floor.

His feet were facing the door

and his head was facing that way.

Let me get down and give you an idea of what that look like.

The knife was still in his hand,

he was lying like this,

and this is how we saw him.

I was

really hesitant in

believing that this was just a man who cut his throat,

I'll tell you why.

There was blood spatter

on this window.

From about two, maybe two,

two and a half feet down.

If Vladimir had cut his throat standing here,

he would've taken the knife, perhaps this way,

the coroner said he did it this way.

We might have had some cast off

on the glass right here.

If he had cut his throat and he was down on his knees,

we'd had some cast off here.

Here and here.

Here and here.

How does one get blood

from the knees or standing tall down here?

And it was at a 90 degree angle,

meaning, the blood came straight back.

It didn't come down from the top,

and it didn't come from the bottom,

which would leave us with a different blood pattern.

If Vladimir had not taken his own life,

and if someone had him down on the floor,

and they were holding him down,

and they lifted his head back,

and they cut his throat

really quickly,

really quickly,

it's possible that the blood would land where I saw it.

So let's be honest,

maybe I'm not remembering things clearly,

maybe I need to go down to the PD, the police department,

and look at those evidential photos on the case.

I wanna make sure

that what I saw 24 years ago is what I'm remembering today.

I haven't made an appointment,

so I'm gonna try to go in and talk with the evidence person,

and see if she can pull some photos.

You are not gonna believe this.

You are not gonna believe this.

So when I went upstairs, I met with the evidence clerk,

who, who is in charge of all evidence release.

I actually hired her.

She said to me, "Sandra, I have some bad news for you.

The evidence was disposed off, destroyed."

It's gone.

The date on this paper work says, March 31st, 1999,

and the box is marked for destroyed.

The crime occurred in September of 1998,

the 22nd to be clear,

the 22nd to be clear,

and it was destroyed in March of 1999?

September, October, November, December, January, February, March,

that's six months after the crime, that's unheard of.

This is unbelievable.

Even though this was a murder-suicide,

the supposedly or allegedly known suspect is, is dead,

it's still two homicides.

We never throw away homicide evidence, we keep it for years.

It is shocking to me

who approved the destruction of this evidence.

The evidence clerk

said, "I walked upstairs to investigations,

and I spoke to the supervisor and the investigating officer,

Scott Wong and Mike Denson,

and they just said, 'Go ahead and destroy it.'"

I don't know why, and I find that to be quite strange.

I don't really know what to do with this information.

I don't really know what to do with this information.

I wanna talk to them,

but this is gonna be a difficult discussion.

We can't go back and look for

minute traces of fingerprints or we can't compare

because all the evidence is gone.

But we still have the case file.

Because this case rested so heavily

on the autopsy report from the two medical examiners,

I wanted to reach out to them,

I wanted them to explain their finding,

I wanted them to explain their finding,

because a murder-suicide didn't make sense to me.

We couldn't make contact with one,

and the other one wouldn't agree to talk on camera.

So we reached out to another

medical examiner, who is very well known,

Doctor Mike Arnall.

Doctor Arnall has done over 5000 autopsies in his career.

So, Doctor Arnall, I'm, I appreciate that you took the time to meet with me.

So I sent you the autopsy report,

and I'm really curious,

and I'm really curious,

very curious to get your opinion in it,

because I have some suspicions.

Let me just cut to the chase.

What I saw in the autopsy reports

are entirely consistent with triple homicide.

I may have made the determination of suicide

in a 1000 or more cases,

and based on my 40 years of experience,

this case stinks.

Let's talk about that wound

on his neck,

Vladimir got a injury to a jugular vein,

does not cut the carotid artery,

does not cut the carotid artery,

that is important because the carotid artery

is a high pressure vessel...

Mmm-hmm.

...jugular veins are low pressure vessels.

A injury to a jugular vein

is going to bleed slowly.

The person who has their jugular veins cut

may live for a prolonged period of time.

They'll die in a few minutes,

but he certainly had the time

to call and order a pizza and check his email.

So it's possible that Vladimir could've released that knife,

maybe grab his throat, if he were conscious.

There's no reasonable explanation

for why he would have continued to hold the knife in his hand

while an eternity passed till he died.

So I hear the term in here, uh, what was the term?

-Cadaveric spasm. -Cadaveric spasm.

[Dr. Michael Arnall] Vladimir didn't die rapidly enough

[Dr. Michael Arnall] Vladimir didn't die rapidly enough

to satisfy the criteria for a cadaveric spasm event.

People with cadaveric spasm

die quickly, so they stop breathing,

the blood that carries the oxygen stops circulating the body,

and they can't relax.

I personally have never seen a case of cadaveric spasm.

I don't know anyone who has seen a case of cadaveric spasm.

Vladimir didn't die in the fashion that

cadaveric spasm is said to occur.

cadaveric spasm is said to occur.

So for multiple reasons,

I think the diagnosis was attractive

to the pathologist,

but I don't think the pathologist thought it through real well.

-Next point is the hesitation marks... - [Brown] Mmm-hmm.

[Dr. Arnall] ...on the neck.

There are two smaller incise wounds

on the neck in addition to the larger wound

which got the jugular veins.

Those hesitation marks

are commonly seen

are commonly seen

in individuals who commit suicide.

As to whether this has to be

a suicide because of hesitation marks.

Mmm-hmm.

I will tell you that I'm going to be testifying in a case

where there are numerous hesitation marks on the neck,

and yet, it's clearly a homicide.

Is it possible that whomever committed this murder

used that knife twice

as a warning to get information

or, like, "We're gonna cut your throat

or, like, "We're gonna cut your throat

if you don't give us what we want."?

Why don't we just cut to the formal term, torture.

Can a torture mark look like a hesitation mark,

pathologist may see that and think automatically that

this is, this is a hesitation mark,

where I'm thinking it's a torture mark?

The two would be indistinguishable.

Okay.

If you look at the autopsies

-on your alleged assailant, Vladimir. -Mmm-hmm.

One of the autopsies mentions

an aberration on the head, which is U-shaped,

an aberration on the head, which is U-shaped,

which has a width below one inch.

I cannot exclude the possibility

that he was struck with a hammer.

And since two of the other individuals

at the scene were indeed struck by the hammer...

...you're gonna have to consider significant possibility,

he was also struck by a hammer

with the glancing blow that didn't cause a depressed skull fracture,

but may well have rendered him unconscious.

The fact that this individual dies slowly,

and he hasn't made no attempts to make additional injuries

and he hasn't made no attempts to make additional injuries

or made an attempt to resolve the one that had

suggests the was either being held down or unconscious.

I don't know how you exclude the possibility

that Vladimir was struck on the head,

went down to the floor,

had his throat incised by a knife,

and he died.

And then someone could easily have placed a knife

in his hand.

I'll honest with you,

um, my heart's beating really fast right now.

Do you think that this man

murdered his wife and child, and then killed himself?

I think there are an awful lot of problems with that assertion.

Problems which I can't figure out and answer.

My, my point is this,

if you have a case with so many loose ends,

and you don't understand why the ends are loose,

and then the feds show up,

at that point it's, "Oh, time out."

at that point it's, "Oh, time out."

The elephant in the living room

is the presence of federal authorities.

What the hell are they doing there?

Until I know what it's doing here,

this case is going nowhere, I'm not gonna sign the death certificate.

Are you kidding?

The only cases in which I have interacted with the FBI

were in cases where the FBI clearly had jurisdiction

because of the property upon which

the event occurred.

It could be federal property,

it could be property belonging to a Native American tribe.

To the best of my knowledge, I've,

I have never heard

of the FBI being involved in

any suicides.

[Brown] I'm excited about what you're saying

because you're not a detective,

so you get to see things after the fact,

so what you just said has blown this way out of the water for me.

[Dr. Arnall] You understand this doesn't make any sense, right?

[Brown] Of course this doesn't make any sense, that's why you're here,

[Brown] Of course this doesn't make any sense, that's why you're here,

that's why we sought you out.

[Dr. Arnall] Everything's wrong with it,

nothing's right with it.

[Brown] So I just finished talking with Doctor Mike Arnall,

and I'm so excited that somebody

who understands the science of death

actually understands what I felt,

and how I said, "This guy couldn't have killed himself."

But there are no fingerprints other than the family members,

But there are no fingerprints other than the family members,

which means that whomever did this had experience.

Two former gas executives and members of their families

died in two separate countries within 24 hours.

[Joe Serio] Right now we're in the middle of the Ukraine war,

and the last year,

at least seven Russian oligarchs

who would not go along with Putin's plan have been murdered.

Inside Russia, outside Russia,

and in a style that is extremely similar

to this murder in Silicon Valley.

[male reporter] Police found his wife and daughter dead with axe and knife wounds.

Several have been killed...

...and their families killed as well,

the young children, the spouses.

What does that tell you?

What does that tell you?

Tells you that somebody, some pool of people

have knowledge and skill

about how to kill people,

to pass it off as a suicide.

[male reporter] Moscow police are investigating the deaths

of Avayev and his family as a murder-suicide.

[Serio] The fact that at least a couple of these

murder-suicides of the oligarchs

look almost exactly like Vladimir's.

I don't like coincidences like that.

I think that this whole case

just reeks of Russian mafia.

Twenty-four years ago, I wasn't the only person who has some questions.

Twenty-four years ago, I wasn't the only person who has some questions.

And some of the information that I've found since

is shocking.

So I'm gonna call everybody that I worked with

and get them all back together,

because there's some information

in this case that they don't know,

interviews that they're not privy to.

I want to see they're reactions

and if they're in line with how I feel.

Something bigger happened.

And I have to ask Mike and Scott

why was the evidence destroyed.

That seems weird to me.

I need to know the answer. I need to know.

So, you guys know why we're here,

and this is a case that

and this is a case that

I think we've talked about over the years.

But I have a question.

When the producers called each of you,

and you guys all came in, why did you come on board?

[Curtis Chan] 'Cause I didn't agree with the findings by the coroner.

We saw the spinal chord in the neck.

How could, how can an individual...

...apply that severe of a wound to themselves?

Back then I was the, the rookie of us all.

Um, but at the time,

there was evidential questions that I had,

the two different hammers.

What's the point of that?

And then was there a cleanup before the suicide?

The paperwork that was burned out in the barbecue.

if you're gonna commit suicide,

who cares what you leave behind?

So, you're the investigating officer,

what do you remember how you felt when you first went in there?

what do you remember how you felt when you first went in there?

They used two different hammers, they, uh...

I felt like it was overkill.

Did we ever for any second

think that this was a home invasion,

did we ever think anything like that initially?

[Mike Denson] Initially, of course, the first thought is,

"You've got a dead son, a dead wife,

and a dead husband,"

it looked like somebody came in and killed all of 'em.

We always think about was there a possible home invasion

and we look for signs of that.

But we didn't find that.

[Scott Wong] I think it was good that we had these conversations

or, or, you know, concerns or disagreements, you know?

But, uh, what it was...

...was a murder-suicide.

The note that I read that put chills in my spine

also explained to me

what was going on inside this guy's head.

You know? The good, evil aspect,

and the end result, so, basically, you know,

we closed the case based on the evidence we had at hand.

The case was closed.

[Sandra Brown] So now, the years go by,

and I find out two days after this case started

that the U.S. Department of Justice was involved,

that a subpoena was sent in by the United States District Court.

So, we have Palo Alto,

and then we have San Francisco FBI,

and now we have the United States District Court Northern District.

How did we go from local police

all the way over to United States...

...criminal investigations?

...criminal investigations?

So, it makes me think this little bedroom,

a guy who kills his wife and son

and then kills himself is not so little.

That it's bigger than that.

Did anybody know before we were interviewed about this,

did anybody know about...

...that paperwork?

-I don't remember it at all. -[Brown] Okay.

[Chan] I have no recollection of that subpoena at all,

but when I look back at how we did our,

you know, investigations,

you know, investigations,

it, you know, it can be explained.

My thought process and rationality is that

Mike opened the door to use them as a resource,

when they called...

...the FBI, actually had an agent that spoke Russian

and could help translate his documents.

They also provided the handwriting analysis of the note,

but in order for them to even do,

like, uh, check with their counterintelligence

to see if Vladimir had any kind of connections,

all that kind of stuff, they'd have to do this paperwork.

all that kind of stuff, they'd have to do this paperwork.

Okay.

They did the paperwork, obviously, 'cause we have it.

-Mmm-hmm. -So, I'm not disputing that,

and then they found zilch.

Because otherwise, if they would have told us,

"Hey, there's a connection, we helped you guys out,

this is something you need to be concerned about,"

we would have followed up on it.

-And that's my assumption. -That's your assumption?

-Yeah, because... -Okay.

...I mean, I'm confident in the work that Mike and I did.

I don't have any doubt that the work that you did was great work.

Right, and so, if we did not get notified

that there's something going on, then...

...I'm not gonna dispute that

because I don't know what the FBI has.

[Brown] So, on that note, I found that person

that was the subject of the subpoena.

I found that individual's information, contact information,

so, I reached out to them.

This person was associated with Vladimir,

uh, he would be a business association

and maybe, uh, a friend.

This person's not comfortable talking on camera.

This person's not comfortable talking on camera.

I'm not gonna use this particular person's name.

But this particular person

was interviewed by the FBI.

I wanna play the audio,

it was over the telephone, I wanna play the audio for you.

[voice on recording]

[Brown] What do you think?

Everything has to make sense to me,

and this one has never made sense to me.

I think with all the information

that was from that conversation,

it just got cloudier.

I just find it odd

that the FBI show up day two with all this information.

Let's just say we took word that there was a file

that the FBI showed them about this case.

Let's say the homicide occurred on Monday,

Let's say the homicide occurred on Monday,

on Tuesday they have all this information

plus a grand jury subpoena

through the United States District Court

also from their Organized Crime and Racketeering Section.

Is there a possibility that the FBI

was looking at this situation

and this homicide, suicide or whatever occurred,

and they were already involved?

Is that a possibility?

[Jean Bready] I mean, I find it surprising.

If it is strictly related to our investigation,

then it's so quick.

then it's so quick.

Well, and that they were able to put together

a federal grand jury in order to come with that subpoena,

-I mean... -[Brown] Thank you.

...my thought process in regards to putting a grand jury together,

-you know, you gotta present evidence... -[Brown] Mmm-hmm.

...you know, of an ongoing investigation,

you know, things like that,

-it's not something that happens in a day. -Overnight. Yeah.

Well, I mean, obviously, it did,

you know, but they were able to do it

based on stuff that they had gathered

or had with them

before we had even started collecting evidence.

-That's what I'm trying to get us to. -Okay, so, no,

-That's what I'm trying to get us to. -Okay, so, no,

yeah, so, it's evidence that the FBI probably did have a file...

-Mmm-hmm. Okay. -[Wong] ...or some kind of investigation...

-Yes. -...but an investigation--

-Prior to our case? Okay. -Yeah, prior to this going on.

Based on that right there, I don't doubt that.

But would I like to know the answers

to some of the questions that, you know, you brought up,

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Would it change my mind?

Don't know because I don't have the answers to those questions.

As I'm sitting down and I'm talking to my colleagues,

I've realized that it's time to ask Mike and Scott

I've realized that it's time to ask Mike and Scott

about why the evidence was destroyed.

I'm very uncomfortable sharing this with my colleagues.

[exhales deeply]

I'm not looking forward to talking about it,

but it adds another layer of suspiciousness to this case

that I feel we don't have a complete answer to.

Now, I wanna talk about the evidence.

Can we have a break?

-[director] Yeah. -Okay.

-[director] Yeah. -Okay.

Be right back.

[Brown] So, I was really curious,

am I remembering the evidence?

'Cause I haven't looked at the evidence on this case

since back then,

-Have you looked at it? -No.

-Have you looked at it? -No.

-Have you gone back and looked at it? -No.

-No. Have you looked at it? -No.

No. So, I wanted to see it, and I went to the PD.

No. So, I wanted to see it, and I went to the PD.

I've been gone for 12 years,

but the new property manager, I hired her,

and I let her know that I wanna look at this stuff

'cause I wanna see the photos, I wanna look at the bodies

because I could have been wrong.

Because I'm not perfect, right?

And she goes, "Well, I've got some bad news for you,

I can't show you this stuff 'cause it's gone."

I go, "What do you mean, 'it's gone'?"

-She goes... -So, the evidence is gone?

-[Brown] The evidence was destroyed. -What?

-Are you sure about that? -How--

Oh, I'm 100% sure about it.

Not only was the evidence destroyed,

I wanna see how y'all feel about this.

I wanna see how y'all feel about this.

The evidence was destroyed

six months after the case was closed.

[Chan] That year or...

-1999. -[Chan] 1999?

Photos, blood, clothing, rugs,

everything that we didn't return to the family's attorney,

the probate attorney, was disposed of.

So, our experience is that we would never get rid of that.

Even though we know who we think we know

who the suspect is, right?

There's not a third party involved.

The case is closed, it's still a murder-suicide,

The case is closed, it's still a murder-suicide,

would we get rid of the evidence?

-No. -[Brown] No.

[Bready] And when I was on late duty,

one of the things they had me do

was open up our two cold cases

and we still had evidence from those cold cases

from the '70s.

Homicide cases, they're never destroyed.

How did it say it was destroyed and by who?

Is there any of that paperwork?

[Brown] Okay.

So, I'm, this is difficult to talk about this.

How would you feel if I told you two

How would you feel if I told you two

that I had a conversation

with the former, uh, evidence tech,

and that she

told me she contact you guys.

She said she went up and talked to both of you

and said, "Hey, we can't keep this stuff,

we've got a lot of stuff,

if this case is closed, can we get rid of it?"

Do you have a memory of that occurring

about this evidence?

None whatsoever.

[Wong] Not at all.

[Bready] But would you have?

I can't imagine that you would have agreed to that.

I can't imagine that you would have agreed to that.

-[Brown] So... -I don't think I would.

So, you looked shocked...

-Yeah, I'm surprised. -...you looked shocked.

Yeah, I'll tell you I'm shocked.

We're blown away by it, okay.

Uh, I don't doubt the credibility of what they said

in regards to the conversation,

but I would tell you this based on my, uh,

experience and recollection of everything that happened,

if Mike had made that call back then,

then I was agree... I agree with it.

I mean, I don't question Mike's decision,

and I know Mike wouldn't have made that decision without me, so...

-[Denson] No. -[Brown] Okay, so here's--

[Wong] But this is, it is, it is bizarre.

[Brown] It's bizarre.

So, you understand I'm not,

So, you understand I'm not,

I'm not accusing anybody of anything.

Can I say something?

-If these two individuals... -[Brown] Mmm-hmm.

...if they knew about the FBI investigation,

they would not have allowed that evidence to be destroyed.

[Brown] That's where I'm going.

The FBI, they didn't tell us about the file,

they didn't tell us about the subpoena,

I don't think you knew how deep they were.

I know we didn't, and I really do believe

that they were already investigating,

they already had eyeballs on here,

and something went wrong, and this family ended up dead.

and something went wrong, and this family ended up dead.

This was a much deeper case that we didn't know about.

It just happened in our jurisdiction.

If the FBI had been forward-thinking

along with our organization,

they didn't have to tell me about it,

but they could have told Mike, they could have told Scott.

"Hey, this is an ongoing investigation.

You are not allowed to tell anybody on your team that it's ongoing.

Do not get rid of the evidence."

Why didn't they talk to us?

Did they have something else going on?

Very evident now that they did.

I don't doubt now, looking at this

I don't doubt now, looking at this

and your analysis and everything

that the FBI had a file, some kind of file on him.

'Kay. Curtis, what do you think?

It's like the game Tetris. Just, like...

-[Brown] Yeah. -These blocks are coming down, right?

-[Brown] Yeah. -The blocks are questions.

When they fit perfect down at the bottom,

-we got the answer to that question. -Okay.

There's a lot of blocks that not fitting

at the bottom row right now.

Now, let me just throw one more thing.

So, I found some more shocking information.

I found in the case file a friend of Yelena's.

I spoke to that person,

and it makes your jaw drop.

[voice on phone]

So, there's other stuff that has come out.

So, I found in the case file

a close friend of Yelena's

living here in Palo Alto.

She knew Yelena very well.

So, I've looked up their contact information

and I gave them a call

and we started talking.

This person, shortly after the homicide,

was contacted by someone in Russia

was contacted by someone in Russia

that was related to Yelena.

Shortly after this crime occurred,

this family member in Russia went to run some errands,

and when they returned to their apartment...

...there was someone in their apartment.

[voice on phone]

[Brown] Someone was looking for information.

This is right after the death of the family,

and that right there tells me

there's more to the story than what we're getting.

[voice on phone]

That person in Russia,

they were so concerned about what that was about

that they left the country, they did not go back,

and they came to America.

-[Chan] Shortly after we got our homicide? -Yes.

-[Chan] Shortly after we got our homicide? -Yes.

They came to America because they were concerned

if this was Russian mob or mafia,

they didn't wanna get involved in it.

And early on,

there was a lot of the Russian community

that were telling us,

-"Look into the mob situation... -[Brown] Mmm-hmm.

[Bready] ...look into this."

I mean, when someone leaves the country

because they're afraid for their life?

What that tells me is this particular person's

concern and fear was real. It was real.

And we have to pay attention to that.

Okay, did anything change for you today?

Okay, did anything change for you today?

Coming in here and hearing all this stuff.

Anything change for you?

I mean, the only thing that changed for me

is, is that, uh, it's evident to me now

that the FBI had some kind of, um,

outside investigation into,

you know, the, uh, the suspect.

-Based on the subpoenas that showed up. -[Brown] Mmm-hmm.

Um, but it didn't change my closing of the case

as a murder-suicide.

When you guys expressed your concerns

about, "Oh, how could someone do that?"

You know, I go back to one of my homicide classes,

You know, I go back to one of my homicide classes,

and you guys may have even seen it,

where they had one victim

that they showed us a picture of that

this guy was laid out, if I'm not mistaken,

on a bed like this, and he had, like,

six or seven, eight knives shoved down his throat.

And you look at that, and you go,

"Whoa, look at this, this is crazy."

You know, and the people doing the training said,

"This is a suicide."

And you go, "Wow, how could someone do that?"

-Right? -Mmm-hmm.

[Wong] So, this...

...to me, was not a surprise.

-[Brown] Mmm-hmm. Okay. -[Wong] It was doable.

Jean?

Jean?

I think it just, uh, fed me more...

...fuel for my fire that...

...there was something odd about this case.

I still believe that it was, uh,

not a murder-suicide.

I believe that it was a triple homicide.

Okay. Curtis, what do you think?

Hearing all this, I have my suspicions.

Why two hammers?

Why did he kill the family and himself?

There are still some holes?

Yes.

Mike?

[Denson] Even if it was a murder-suicide,

I think there's a lot, um, a lot of unanswered questions

I think there's a lot, um, a lot of unanswered questions

in the case.

But the FBI part of it, I have no doubt,

-um, that they could have had an investigation going on. -[Brown] Mmm-hmm.

Um, would they have told me? Probably not.

Unless I needed to know.

And so, we don't know what the FBI's still got going

-that could connect back to this. -Okay.

It was great to see my friends.

Some of them I haven't seen in years.

I knew something was off then...

...and after reopening this case

...and after reopening this case

and looking at all the new evidence that we've gotten,

I now know I was right.

There are people that we've interviewed

that are afraid to talk about this case 24 years later

because of Russian organized crime.

They're afraid that the hand from Russia

reaches all the way to America.

[Joe Serio] This is the thing about Russia,

I don't care if you're in the United States,

Russia still is a factor, right?

There are so many layers,

There are so many layers,

and there's so many dark alleyways

that most Americans would find absolutely astounding

and totally unbelievable.

And we've seen the oddest things happen coming out of Russia

that you would think, "There's no way that happened in real life."

What if they do?

Since the collapse of the Soviet Union,

more than 150 journalists have been murdered.

Businessmen in the largest industries in Russia

have been murdered.

Government officials have been assassinated,

Government officials have been assassinated,

they're families have been assassinated.

Sergey Protosenya, his wife and daughter found dead.

This is at their home in Spain.

[Serio] When people say, "Oh, it looks like Putin's fingerprints

all over these oligarch murders,"

that doesn't mean that Putin said to somebody,

"Go kill these oligarchs."

The people in his circle, the people with these kinds of skills,

they already know...

"...if an opposition arises, we gotta get rid of him."

"...if an opposition arises, we gotta get rid of him."

It's exactly the telltale marks of Vladimir's murder.

Why would somebody who can't handle the stress

and even wants to spare his family

the misery of being broke kill himself...

...and do it in this way

that has precedence in Russian mafia circles?

Vladimir sat in offices all day. He was a coder.

These are not the methods of a coder.

[man speaking]

[Noam Levey] All murders are tragic.

Some are just heartbreaking,

and this one was very, very difficult.

You know, I still wince when I think about...

...you know, what must have happened in that house that night.

I don't know the truth,

and I'm glad that you're going after it.

I sure didn't anticipate

anything like that in that family.

It's very, very difficult to understand and to believe.

It's very, very difficult to understand and to believe.

And, um...

...it makes me very, very sad.

[Bready] Even though it relates to Tetris,

nobody wins in this case.

Nobody wins. Even if you get the answers,

no matter what the answers are,

it's tragedy all the way around.

[Brown] So, what do I believe?

I believe this was a Russian hit.

Vladimir was killed over some money

that was borrowed with the mafia,

and this case was staged by the Russian mafia

to make it look like Vladimir killed his son

to make it look like Vladimir killed his son

and killed his wife.

In this case, there was a little boy

who was killed in such a heinous manner,

bludgeoned and stabbed to death.

And I wish I could talk to Peter

because I wanna tell Peter,

"Your father, your papa, he didn't kill you and your mom."

And if I could find the persons who did this,

we would take them away

and we would put them in custody and send 'em to prison.

But here's the problem, our evidence was destroyed.

So, do I think we're gonna put somebody in jail for it?

I really don't think so.

You know what my hope would be?

That we would be able to put that information out

so that everybody knows.

For more than 20 years,

I've told this story to so many friends

and so many acquaintances,

I wanna be able to say,

"This man did not kill his family."

That Vladimir Pokhilko was an innocent man

who was blamed for this.

And this man and his family

didn't die for nothing.

didn't die for nothing.