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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:12,310 --> 00:00:14,550 - All right. - I gotta tell you, 2 00:00:14,590 --> 00:00:20,110 I'm real proud to introduce this next artist 3 00:00:20,110 --> 00:00:22,750 whose name's become synonymous 4 00:00:22,750 --> 00:00:26,950 with courage and integrity. 5 00:00:26,990 --> 00:00:29,190 Ladies and gentlemen, Sinéad O'Connor. 6 00:00:38,910 --> 00:00:39,950 Thank you. 7 00:01:56,110 --> 00:01:58,470 I didn't mean to be strong. 8 00:01:58,470 --> 00:02:00,670 I wasn't thinking to myself, I must be strong. 9 00:02:00,670 --> 00:02:01,830 I didn't know I was strong. 10 00:02:04,950 --> 00:02:08,670 I did suffer through a lot because everybody felt 11 00:02:08,670 --> 00:02:10,510 it was okay to kick the shit out of me. 12 00:02:12,350 --> 00:02:16,110 I regret that I was so sad because of it. 13 00:02:16,150 --> 00:02:18,310 I regret that I spent so many years 14 00:02:18,310 --> 00:02:20,110 very lonely and isolated, really. 15 00:02:28,190 --> 00:02:30,470 Ran down And the lady said it 16 00:02:30,470 --> 00:02:32,310 Got torn down And the priest just said it 17 00:02:34,510 --> 00:02:38,310 Got burned down, ooh 18 00:02:38,310 --> 00:02:43,470 They give me five years Ooh, five years 19 00:02:43,470 --> 00:02:44,830 It's my turn 20 00:02:47,710 --> 00:02:53,230 Oh, oh, Jerusalem 21 00:02:56,990 --> 00:03:02,510 Oh, oh, Jerusalem 22 00:03:10,230 --> 00:03:12,150 There was no therapy when I was growing up. 23 00:03:12,150 --> 00:03:15,470 So the reason I got into music group was therapy, 24 00:03:15,470 --> 00:03:17,270 which is why it was such a shock for me 25 00:03:17,270 --> 00:03:19,710 to become a pop star, it's not what I wanted. 26 00:03:19,710 --> 00:03:23,070 I just wanted to scream. 27 00:03:30,470 --> 00:03:33,790 Everybody in music has a story in terms of their upbringing 28 00:03:33,790 --> 00:03:36,150 or where they came from or what they went through. 29 00:03:37,910 --> 00:03:40,270 There's something they need to get off their chest, 30 00:03:40,270 --> 00:03:42,110 and perhaps we all need a bit of love and affection 31 00:03:42,110 --> 00:03:43,310 that we didn't get anywhere else 32 00:03:43,310 --> 00:03:44,950 but we get by making music. 33 00:03:44,950 --> 00:03:48,510 Come on over there and sit down. 34 00:03:48,550 --> 00:03:51,310 They're all, they're all looking at you, Sinéad, 35 00:03:51,350 --> 00:03:52,830 out there in television land. 36 00:03:52,870 --> 00:03:53,910 They're saying "Mother of God, 37 00:03:53,950 --> 00:03:55,150 what did she do with her head? 38 00:03:55,150 --> 00:03:56,790 Isn't that a disgrace? 39 00:03:56,790 --> 00:03:58,350 I hope my daughter wouldn't turn out like that." 40 00:03:58,350 --> 00:03:59,790 - Isn't that what you're saying? - Yes, you are. 41 00:03:59,790 --> 00:04:01,710 - Already, you are. - How are you then? 42 00:04:01,710 --> 00:04:03,350 - I'm fine, thank you. How are you? - Well done so far. 43 00:04:03,350 --> 00:04:05,950 Now from Glenageary, you were a difficult child, 44 00:04:05,950 --> 00:04:08,590 Sinéad O'Connor, you were difficult growing up. 45 00:04:08,590 --> 00:04:10,630 You went through a lot of schools, did you not? 46 00:04:10,630 --> 00:04:14,070 I think quite a few, at the expense of my father. 47 00:04:14,070 --> 00:04:16,430 How many schools did you go through and why? 48 00:04:16,430 --> 00:04:21,430 Um... I think, I don't know how many, Dad? About five. 49 00:04:21,430 --> 00:04:23,070 Five or six. 50 00:04:23,070 --> 00:04:25,070 How many schools did she go through? 51 00:04:25,070 --> 00:04:26,430 - I'd say no more than five or six. - - Five or six. 52 00:04:26,470 --> 00:04:28,270 That's a bit exaggerated actually. 53 00:04:28,310 --> 00:04:30,270 That's in one year, of course. 54 00:04:30,270 --> 00:04:33,990 And for me 55 00:04:34,030 --> 00:04:39,470 Some scarlet ribbons 56 00:04:39,470 --> 00:04:43,310 Scarlet ribbons 57 00:04:43,310 --> 00:04:47,150 For my hair... 58 00:04:47,150 --> 00:04:49,470 My very first musical memory 59 00:04:49,470 --> 00:04:53,510 is my father singing to me, "Scarlet Ribbons". 60 00:04:53,510 --> 00:04:55,670 I just remember being blown away. 61 00:04:55,670 --> 00:04:57,590 Like I remember like yesterday I was lying on my pillow 62 00:04:57,590 --> 00:04:58,870 and my dad would sing the song to me 63 00:04:58,910 --> 00:05:00,590 and I was like, "Oh, my God." 64 00:05:00,590 --> 00:05:02,190 The angels came in the window. 65 00:05:02,190 --> 00:05:07,350 ...all the streets were dark. 66 00:05:07,350 --> 00:05:09,990 When I'm 11, my brother comes home with " Slow Train Coming," 67 00:05:09,990 --> 00:05:11,750 which completely changes my life 68 00:05:11,790 --> 00:05:13,270 and makes me want to be a musician, 69 00:05:13,310 --> 00:05:15,510 and makes me want to be an artist, 70 00:05:15,510 --> 00:05:17,190 and makes me know what kind of artist I want to be 71 00:05:17,230 --> 00:05:19,590 because of the song "Gotta Serve Somebody." 72 00:05:19,630 --> 00:05:22,350 And I was obsessed with Bob Dylan from then on. 73 00:05:31,870 --> 00:05:34,870 My mother had this fantastic record collection 74 00:05:34,910 --> 00:05:37,110 which she would spread out on the dining room table 75 00:05:37,110 --> 00:05:38,670 every morning like a deck of cards. 76 00:05:41,310 --> 00:05:44,630 Her musical tastes ranged from John Lennon 77 00:05:44,630 --> 00:05:48,390 right through awful kind of HMS Pinafore, Light Opera, 78 00:05:48,430 --> 00:05:50,790 right through to, like, Porgy and Bess. 79 00:05:50,790 --> 00:05:52,750 And also in those days, musicals were huge. 80 00:05:52,790 --> 00:05:54,510 That was all that was ever on telly, 81 00:05:54,550 --> 00:05:56,230 was these just high class musicals, you know. 82 00:05:56,230 --> 00:05:57,790 My mother always had the soundtracks to them. 83 00:06:01,870 --> 00:06:04,270 My father was into cello, 84 00:06:04,270 --> 00:06:06,270 which I used to find just too sad, given our circumstances. 85 00:06:10,470 --> 00:06:12,910 My parents separated when I was quite young, 86 00:06:14,470 --> 00:06:16,190 and my mother was a very violent woman, 87 00:06:16,230 --> 00:06:18,350 not a healthy woman mentally at all. 88 00:06:18,390 --> 00:06:20,670 And she was physically 89 00:06:20,670 --> 00:06:22,750 and verbally and psychologically, 90 00:06:22,750 --> 00:06:24,350 spiritually and emotionally abusive. 91 00:06:29,710 --> 00:06:31,390 My mother was a beast, 92 00:06:31,430 --> 00:06:34,870 and I was able to soothe her with my voice, 93 00:06:34,870 --> 00:06:37,310 I was able to use my voice to make the devil fall asleep. 94 00:06:39,430 --> 00:06:41,150 My father is the type of man that didn't want 95 00:06:41,150 --> 00:06:42,710 anyone talking about what happened, 96 00:06:42,710 --> 00:06:44,310 and that's what was wrong with me. 97 00:06:44,350 --> 00:06:45,950 It wasn't talked about, even in the family. 98 00:06:49,150 --> 00:06:52,190 The cause of my own abuse was the church's effect 99 00:06:52,230 --> 00:06:56,750 on this country, which had produced my mother. 100 00:06:59,190 --> 00:07:02,790 I spent my entire childhood being beaten up 101 00:07:02,790 --> 00:07:04,790 because of the social conditions 102 00:07:04,830 --> 00:07:06,470 under which my mother grew up 103 00:07:06,470 --> 00:07:08,350 and under which her mother grew up 104 00:07:08,390 --> 00:07:10,230 and under which her mother and her mother grew up. 105 00:07:14,230 --> 00:07:17,150 I would compare Ireland to an abused child. 106 00:07:23,510 --> 00:07:27,630 I'd a terrible 107 00:07:27,630 --> 00:07:33,230 Broken heart 108 00:07:34,950 --> 00:07:39,790 I'd a terrible 109 00:07:39,830 --> 00:07:42,750 Broken heart... 110 00:07:42,750 --> 00:07:44,350 I began studying scriptures 111 00:07:44,350 --> 00:07:46,150 when I was very small, 112 00:07:46,150 --> 00:07:47,830 because I wanted to see what was in this book 113 00:07:47,870 --> 00:07:49,710 that they were using to oppress my people. 114 00:07:52,950 --> 00:07:54,510 Why were my grandparents so miserable 115 00:07:54,550 --> 00:07:56,510 that they couldn't have a kiss 116 00:07:56,510 --> 00:07:58,390 without feeling like they were going to burn in hell? 117 00:08:08,030 --> 00:08:10,110 The church influenced everything. 118 00:08:10,110 --> 00:08:13,630 If it was a sin, then it was against the law of the state. 119 00:08:13,630 --> 00:08:16,230 So divorce, contraception, 120 00:08:16,230 --> 00:08:18,790 and anything that didn't agree entirely 121 00:08:18,790 --> 00:08:21,310 with a very narrow view of the Catholic church, 122 00:08:21,310 --> 00:08:22,830 it was simply not allowed. 123 00:08:24,990 --> 00:08:28,270 It affected every level of society. 124 00:08:28,270 --> 00:08:31,070 It was a mortal sin, for example, 125 00:08:31,070 --> 00:08:33,230 to go to a dance in some diocese, 126 00:08:33,230 --> 00:08:35,190 that didn't end at midnight. 127 00:08:35,230 --> 00:08:38,870 It was a mortal sin to eat meat on a Friday. 128 00:08:38,910 --> 00:08:41,670 You could go to hell for eating a sausage on a Friday. 129 00:08:43,310 --> 00:08:45,470 Everything was gathered around 130 00:08:45,510 --> 00:08:48,390 the power of the church over its people. 131 00:08:51,030 --> 00:08:53,350 I had loved the Catholic church, 132 00:08:53,350 --> 00:08:55,270 and I had grown up so religious, 133 00:08:55,270 --> 00:08:58,110 like stupidly religious. 134 00:08:58,110 --> 00:09:01,710 I made my holy communion and I took it seriously. 135 00:09:01,750 --> 00:09:04,470 That was a contract with the holy spirit I made, 136 00:09:04,470 --> 00:09:07,070 and I believed it all, and I was trying to live it. 137 00:09:21,310 --> 00:09:24,310 I went into care when I was 14, 138 00:09:24,310 --> 00:09:26,670 into care home for want of a better description. 139 00:09:28,230 --> 00:09:30,030 I was a bit messed up. 140 00:09:30,030 --> 00:09:31,870 And it wasn't acknowledged 141 00:09:31,870 --> 00:09:33,310 what had happened to me in my mother's house. 142 00:09:35,750 --> 00:09:39,150 I was unmanageable, really, so they didn't want me at home. 143 00:09:42,470 --> 00:09:45,230 The place was called "An Grianan", which means "The Sunrise." 144 00:09:47,430 --> 00:09:50,350 An Grianan was a residential training centre 145 00:09:50,350 --> 00:09:52,750 run by a religious order, by sisters. 146 00:09:55,670 --> 00:09:58,270 The girls came from mixed backgrounds. 147 00:09:58,270 --> 00:10:00,110 Some had come from other children's homes, 148 00:10:00,110 --> 00:10:01,990 have been in care all their lives. 149 00:10:02,030 --> 00:10:05,310 Others had come from insecure family settings 150 00:10:05,350 --> 00:10:07,510 and they needed somewhere where there was structure 151 00:10:07,550 --> 00:10:09,710 and safety for a few years. 152 00:10:12,430 --> 00:10:14,070 They got a guitar teacher in 153 00:10:14,070 --> 00:10:16,030 who was the loveliest woman alive, 154 00:10:16,070 --> 00:10:17,350 who I still know and I still talk to now and then. 155 00:10:17,350 --> 00:10:19,350 She's bloody lovely. 156 00:10:19,350 --> 00:10:20,750 If not for her, I wouldn't have made it through that place. 157 00:10:22,790 --> 00:10:24,270 The first night, I was there 158 00:10:24,270 --> 00:10:26,150 doing music with the girls, 159 00:10:26,150 --> 00:10:28,750 I asked her, would she like to sing a song for us. 160 00:10:28,750 --> 00:10:31,150 And I won't forget it as long as I live, 161 00:10:31,190 --> 00:10:34,670 because we were just stunned. 162 00:10:36,790 --> 00:10:39,550 We needed to encourage her in this wonderful talent. 163 00:10:43,390 --> 00:10:45,750 Ooh, I'm freezing! 164 00:10:53,270 --> 00:10:55,110 When we decided to get married, 165 00:10:55,110 --> 00:10:58,670 I asked Sinéad then to do the solo. 166 00:10:58,670 --> 00:11:01,350 And she sang "Evergreen," which was my favourite song. 167 00:11:04,670 --> 00:11:08,710 One love 168 00:11:08,710 --> 00:11:13,510 Ageless and ever 169 00:11:13,510 --> 00:11:17,670 Evergreen 170 00:11:17,670 --> 00:11:19,670 The emotion of the song 171 00:11:19,670 --> 00:11:22,150 almost brought people to tears. 172 00:11:22,190 --> 00:11:25,350 - It was stunning. - It was absolutely stunning. 173 00:11:31,950 --> 00:11:36,510 In the congregation was her brother, Paul Byrne, 174 00:11:36,510 --> 00:11:39,030 and then he was forming this band called In Tua Nua. 175 00:11:42,070 --> 00:11:44,270 We were searching for a singer. 176 00:11:44,270 --> 00:11:48,550 So when I heard this voice, it stopped me in my tracks. 177 00:11:48,590 --> 00:11:51,350 After chatting with Sinéad on the steps of the church, 178 00:11:51,350 --> 00:11:54,590 I'd arranged to go up and see her at An Grianan. 179 00:11:54,590 --> 00:11:58,310 We gave her a tape and she phoned the next day. 180 00:11:58,310 --> 00:12:00,310 She had the lyrics and the melody done. 181 00:12:04,550 --> 00:12:08,310 So we went back up the next night and she sang it to us, 182 00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:09,630 and it was spectacular. 183 00:12:12,670 --> 00:12:15,430 We had to book a couple of hours on a Wednesday afternoon 184 00:12:15,430 --> 00:12:18,270 because Sinéad got a half day from school on a Wednesday. 185 00:12:18,310 --> 00:12:21,270 Picked her up, did two hours of vocals with her, 186 00:12:21,270 --> 00:12:25,150 and then had her back before the nuns noticed she was missing. 187 00:12:25,150 --> 00:12:27,870 So the first song that I wrote, 188 00:12:27,870 --> 00:12:29,990 which became their first single, was called "Take My Hand." 189 00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:31,550 It was a result of the punishment 190 00:12:31,550 --> 00:12:34,030 the nun meted out to me one day, 191 00:12:34,070 --> 00:12:36,390 the nun, she could be terribly kind, 192 00:12:36,390 --> 00:12:39,550 but she could also be terribly cruel as well. 193 00:12:39,550 --> 00:12:42,950 Where I was, was attached to a Magdalene Laundry. 194 00:12:42,990 --> 00:12:45,790 She sent me to sleep in the hospice part of the laundry 195 00:12:45,790 --> 00:12:47,510 as punishment a couple of times, 196 00:12:47,510 --> 00:12:49,470 to remind me that if I didn't behave myself, 197 00:12:49,470 --> 00:12:52,510 I was going to end up like these women. 198 00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:55,030 When I went up, there was no staff there with the ladies. 199 00:12:55,070 --> 00:12:57,070 There was never any nuns or nurses. 200 00:12:57,070 --> 00:12:59,910 And the poor ancient ladies who were the Magdalene girls 201 00:12:59,950 --> 00:13:02,190 were lying in their beds calling out for nurses all night 202 00:13:02,190 --> 00:13:04,990 that never came, it was awful. 203 00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:07,350 I didn't know what to do, and obviously, I was terrified. 204 00:13:16,270 --> 00:13:20,990 Take my hand 205 00:13:29,230 --> 00:13:31,150 These women, 206 00:13:31,150 --> 00:13:32,870 we're now talking about the early '80s, 207 00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:35,830 some of them have been there from the 1920s. 208 00:13:35,830 --> 00:13:39,430 These women, who through no fault of their own, 209 00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:41,990 had just been put in by the courts and by men. 210 00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:47,070 Very often the cases were they had been raped 211 00:13:47,070 --> 00:13:51,150 by maybe the local priest, the doctor, the father, 212 00:13:51,150 --> 00:13:54,390 or some pillar of society. 213 00:13:56,510 --> 00:13:58,350 They had to pay the price 214 00:13:58,390 --> 00:13:59,670 and were locked away for their whole lives. 215 00:14:07,870 --> 00:14:10,190 The whole of Ireland talks about these ladies, 216 00:14:10,190 --> 00:14:13,670 but I met them, I met them at their most vulnerable. 217 00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:22,110 These people convinced my father that they could help me 218 00:14:22,150 --> 00:14:24,470 with whatever behavioural issues I had 219 00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:27,350 as a result of what had happened to me growing up. 220 00:14:27,350 --> 00:14:29,350 But they didn't, they just shut the door in his face 221 00:14:29,350 --> 00:14:31,710 when he dropped me there, they took his money. 222 00:14:33,270 --> 00:14:35,630 The problems were compounded. 223 00:14:35,630 --> 00:14:36,750 We all were walking around thinking we were terrible people 224 00:14:36,750 --> 00:14:39,430 that didn't deserve to live. 225 00:14:39,470 --> 00:14:41,670 My father, I'm sure the world would acknowledge, 226 00:14:41,670 --> 00:14:42,790 deserves a refund. 227 00:14:44,990 --> 00:14:49,430 Young woman With a drink in her hand 228 00:14:49,470 --> 00:14:54,310 She liked to listen To rock and roll 229 00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:59,790 She moves with the music 230 00:14:59,830 --> 00:15:03,870 'Cause it never gets old 231 00:15:05,430 --> 00:15:08,430 Sinéad and I met when we were 232 00:15:08,430 --> 00:15:10,630 both around 18 years old. 233 00:15:13,030 --> 00:15:14,790 We were very close for a number of years 234 00:15:14,790 --> 00:15:17,350 until life kind of took us in different directions. 235 00:15:19,350 --> 00:15:23,430 She really wanted to be doing her music. 236 00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:25,950 I think she really knew what she wanted to do, 237 00:15:25,950 --> 00:15:27,270 but I don't quite know if she knew 238 00:15:27,270 --> 00:15:29,390 what path it would take her on. 239 00:15:31,470 --> 00:15:33,670 I put an ad in Hot Press magazine 240 00:15:33,710 --> 00:15:36,470 that I was a singer and I wanted to find a band to join. 241 00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:38,790 And I remember going into these suburban houses, 242 00:15:38,830 --> 00:15:41,310 doing auditions for these various different bands. 243 00:15:41,310 --> 00:15:44,350 Eventually I ended up meeting this dude called Colm Farrelly 244 00:15:44,350 --> 00:15:46,150 who was putting together this band. 245 00:15:46,150 --> 00:15:50,510 Ton Ton Macoute, so I became the singer in that band. 246 00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:53,270 I had a job at the Bad Ass Cafe on Crown Alley, 247 00:15:53,310 --> 00:15:55,030 and we used to rehearse right across the road from it. 248 00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:57,030 We did nothing but rehearse live, 249 00:15:57,030 --> 00:15:59,070 which is why I love live performing. 250 00:15:59,070 --> 00:16:00,670 And every rehearsal was like a gig. 251 00:16:02,790 --> 00:16:05,390 Nigel Grainge and Chris Hill came over to Dublin 252 00:16:05,390 --> 00:16:07,070 to see us, Ton Ton Macoute. 253 00:16:13,310 --> 00:16:15,590 About six months later, my mother unfortunately died, 254 00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:19,150 very selfishly. 255 00:16:19,150 --> 00:16:22,670 Months after that, I get a phone call from Chris and Nigel. 256 00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:24,110 He said, "Well, why don't you come to London 257 00:16:24,110 --> 00:16:26,150 and do some demos?" 258 00:16:48,270 --> 00:16:51,710 For five long years 259 00:16:51,710 --> 00:16:54,150 I thought you were my man 260 00:16:55,830 --> 00:16:59,070 But I found out 261 00:16:59,070 --> 00:17:03,590 I'm just a link In your chain 262 00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:07,030 You got me Where you want me 263 00:17:07,030 --> 00:17:09,270 I ain't nothin' But your fool 264 00:17:11,110 --> 00:17:14,030 You treated me mean 265 00:17:14,070 --> 00:17:17,030 Oh, you treated me cruel 266 00:17:24,350 --> 00:17:26,910 I worked with Sinéad from her arrival in London 267 00:17:26,910 --> 00:17:29,070 through to the development of and the recording 268 00:17:29,070 --> 00:17:31,150 of her first album, "Lion and the Cobra." 269 00:17:35,150 --> 00:17:37,510 Our job as a sort of group of musicians from the outset 270 00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:39,790 was to help her to find her feet. 271 00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:41,830 She'd already found her voice, 272 00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:44,230 but she wanted to find the sort of musical clothing 273 00:17:44,270 --> 00:17:48,190 that she wanted to wrap around that amazing voice. 274 00:17:48,230 --> 00:17:49,710 What's it called? 275 00:17:49,710 --> 00:17:51,470 Um, we haven't got a name for it yet. 276 00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:53,670 So we went into a rehearsal studio in Putney 277 00:17:53,670 --> 00:17:55,670 and started to routine the songs 278 00:17:55,670 --> 00:17:58,470 and get used to the dynamics and arrangements. 279 00:17:58,470 --> 00:18:00,990 It makes a big difference if you can go in 280 00:18:01,030 --> 00:18:02,550 and rehearse for a long time. 281 00:18:06,590 --> 00:18:10,710 Nigel Grange was the head of Ensign at the time. 282 00:18:10,710 --> 00:18:13,230 He was quite used to putting people into a position 283 00:18:13,230 --> 00:18:16,830 of being able to work for long periods. 284 00:18:16,830 --> 00:18:18,230 So he's a kind of nurturer. 285 00:18:19,910 --> 00:18:23,830 I'm just as guilty as you 286 00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:27,310 I'm just as ashamed as you 287 00:18:30,350 --> 00:18:33,190 The first time I heard Sinéad's voice, 288 00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:34,830 it's just unbelievable. 289 00:18:34,830 --> 00:18:36,830 It was jumping octaves 290 00:18:36,830 --> 00:18:41,230 and going from whisper to scream in half a second. 291 00:18:41,230 --> 00:18:43,270 I mean, it was just amazing, 292 00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:46,390 a young kid from Dublin, you know. 293 00:18:46,430 --> 00:18:51,710 And 294 00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:54,310 I'm just as guilty as you 295 00:19:01,390 --> 00:19:02,990 You often hear artists saying 296 00:19:02,990 --> 00:19:05,190 that they're channelling something. 297 00:19:05,230 --> 00:19:06,990 I think actually you're channelling yourself. 298 00:19:06,990 --> 00:19:09,590 Your subconscious is talking to you. 299 00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:11,270 I just had these songs inside me 300 00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:13,630 that had to come out. 301 00:19:13,630 --> 00:19:17,070 They were very, very personal 302 00:19:17,070 --> 00:19:19,670 and they were sort of cathartic, really. 303 00:19:19,710 --> 00:19:22,830 There were kind of songs to help her, to heal her. 304 00:19:27,310 --> 00:19:29,870 In some respects, I think the band that we were, 305 00:19:29,910 --> 00:19:31,990 the band of musicians who were around her, 306 00:19:31,990 --> 00:19:33,910 were something of a family for her. 307 00:19:35,470 --> 00:19:36,670 We were safe. 308 00:19:42,550 --> 00:19:46,110 Fachtna O'Ceallaigh had been Boomtown Rats' manager 309 00:19:46,110 --> 00:19:48,510 and had run U2's label. 310 00:19:48,510 --> 00:19:51,590 He came over to London and became Sinéad's manager. 311 00:19:56,310 --> 00:19:58,710 I had a great time hanging out with Fachtna, 312 00:19:58,710 --> 00:20:00,670 and Fachtna used to bring me to Portobello Road on Saturdays, 313 00:20:00,710 --> 00:20:04,350 where he had his friend Lepkey, and Leroy. 314 00:20:04,350 --> 00:20:06,110 He used to have the Dread Broadcasting Company 315 00:20:06,110 --> 00:20:07,550 and they had the open mics. 316 00:20:12,830 --> 00:20:14,390 Bearing in mind I'm Irish 317 00:20:14,430 --> 00:20:15,950 and I've come from the theocracy, 318 00:20:15,950 --> 00:20:17,470 and these guys were coming along 319 00:20:17,510 --> 00:20:19,390 roaring about the Pope is the devil, 320 00:20:19,390 --> 00:20:20,990 and fucking burn the Vatican and all this stuff, 321 00:20:20,990 --> 00:20:22,630 so that was like, "Oh, my God, I'm home." 322 00:20:22,630 --> 00:20:24,270 I couldn't believe it. 323 00:20:24,270 --> 00:20:26,550 I fell in love with Rasta at that point. 324 00:20:33,390 --> 00:20:37,870 Love to everyone. You're back in tune to The Rankin' Miss P, 325 00:20:37,910 --> 00:20:40,710 on DBC, the Dread Broadcasting Corporation, 326 00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:44,550 103.8 every Friday. 327 00:20:46,310 --> 00:20:48,510 We're electric, y'all. 328 00:20:56,710 --> 00:20:58,750 She was really shy 329 00:20:58,750 --> 00:21:02,150 and she was living down in east London with her auntie. 330 00:21:02,150 --> 00:21:05,870 She didn't know anyone, and so we just hung out. 331 00:21:05,870 --> 00:21:08,310 We did a lot of driving around London, you know, 332 00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:11,310 with the stereo on, just having a great time actually, 333 00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:12,750 just being kids, to be honest. 334 00:21:18,350 --> 00:21:23,870 Ensign wanted Sinéad to be a musical commodity. 335 00:21:23,910 --> 00:21:26,190 They wanted me to grow the hair long 336 00:21:26,190 --> 00:21:28,510 and wear short skirts and high heels, 337 00:21:28,510 --> 00:21:30,470 makeup and the whole works, 338 00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:32,230 write songs that wouldn't challenge anything. 339 00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:34,230 But then I come from a country where 340 00:21:34,270 --> 00:21:37,310 there used to be riots in the streets over plays. 341 00:21:38,790 --> 00:21:40,670 That's what art is for. 342 00:21:43,310 --> 00:21:46,990 That led to her deciding to shave off all her hair. 343 00:22:07,230 --> 00:22:09,230 At the time, I was her closest female friend. 344 00:22:09,230 --> 00:22:12,110 I think... I went to see some friends, 345 00:22:12,110 --> 00:22:14,150 and when I got back to her flat, 346 00:22:14,150 --> 00:22:16,070 she wouldn't open the door. 347 00:22:16,070 --> 00:22:18,110 She just said, "I can't, I can't. 348 00:22:18,150 --> 00:22:20,030 You got to look through the letter box, 349 00:22:20,030 --> 00:22:21,910 I've done something and you're going to kill me." 350 00:22:21,950 --> 00:22:23,750 I looked through the letterbox and there she was 351 00:22:23,750 --> 00:22:26,510 with a completely shaved head. 352 00:22:32,910 --> 00:22:35,030 The label were trying to brand Sinéad 353 00:22:35,030 --> 00:22:38,070 with those really obvious generic female labels. 354 00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:40,470 Obviously she was having absolutely none of it. 355 00:22:43,870 --> 00:22:45,550 You just looked at somebody and went, 356 00:22:45,550 --> 00:22:47,990 "We know now what we're dealing with." 357 00:22:50,110 --> 00:22:53,590 It's a powerful statement for a woman because she says, 358 00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:54,710 "Don't fuck with me." 359 00:22:59,750 --> 00:23:02,070 Me and John were friends for a year 360 00:23:02,110 --> 00:23:04,510 before, you know, we ever went out with each other. 361 00:23:04,550 --> 00:23:06,550 We were both going out with different people and everything. 362 00:23:06,550 --> 00:23:08,110 And then we just kind of drifted into it, 363 00:23:08,150 --> 00:23:09,710 and then within a month I was pregnant. 364 00:23:13,310 --> 00:23:15,430 The record companies in those days had their own doctors 365 00:23:15,470 --> 00:23:17,550 that they sent you to. 366 00:23:17,550 --> 00:23:20,430 The doctor announces that the record company have spent 367 00:23:20,430 --> 00:23:22,150 a hundred thousand pounds making your record, 368 00:23:22,150 --> 00:23:24,350 you owe it to them not to have this baby. 369 00:23:26,030 --> 00:23:28,550 Ensign tried to dissuade her 370 00:23:28,550 --> 00:23:32,870 from carrying on the pregnancy and giving birth to Jake, 371 00:23:32,910 --> 00:23:37,550 and thankfully, she obviously stood her ground, 372 00:23:37,550 --> 00:23:41,190 but they did put pressure on her to terminate the pregnancy. 373 00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:45,070 That was the final straw for me. 374 00:23:45,070 --> 00:23:47,270 I was sick of the fuckin' record anyway. 375 00:23:47,270 --> 00:23:48,430 I hated the fuckin' record. 376 00:23:51,510 --> 00:23:53,710 There was a big fallout. 377 00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:57,070 Fachtna O'Ceallaigh was working very hard 378 00:23:57,070 --> 00:24:00,110 to persuade the label to just give her scope, 379 00:24:00,110 --> 00:24:02,070 to just change tack. 380 00:24:02,070 --> 00:24:05,190 Basically they said, "Have a go." 381 00:24:05,190 --> 00:24:07,070 In my part, it was a response to them 382 00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:09,430 telling me I owe it to them to not have my baby. 383 00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:10,750 And I was like, "well, it ain't worth it 384 00:24:10,750 --> 00:24:13,230 for a shit fuckin' record." 385 00:24:13,270 --> 00:24:16,270 I just knew that I didn't want any man telling me 386 00:24:16,270 --> 00:24:19,630 who I could be or what I could be or what to sound like. 387 00:24:19,630 --> 00:24:21,470 I came from a patriarchal country 388 00:24:21,470 --> 00:24:23,670 where I'm being told everything I can and can't do 389 00:24:23,670 --> 00:24:25,750 because I'm a girl. 390 00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:28,070 I figured, well, if I didn't take it from the system 391 00:24:28,110 --> 00:24:29,830 and I didn't take it from my daddy, 392 00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:31,710 I ain't taking it from anybody else. 393 00:24:31,750 --> 00:24:33,270 Can I do two? 394 00:24:44,150 --> 00:24:46,070 The whole of "The Lion and the Cobra" 395 00:24:46,070 --> 00:24:49,310 was completely scrapped and we started again. 396 00:24:49,310 --> 00:24:52,430 That was a really important turning point in that record. 397 00:24:52,470 --> 00:24:57,550 The second version was fresher, younger, and spontaneous. 398 00:24:57,550 --> 00:24:59,270 Put your hands on me 399 00:24:59,270 --> 00:25:05,030 Put 'em on, put 'em on Put 'em on me 400 00:25:08,990 --> 00:25:13,910 Hands, gimme love 401 00:25:18,350 --> 00:25:23,190 Hands, gimme those 402 00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:28,790 I want your 403 00:25:28,830 --> 00:25:30,270 Gimme, yes 404 00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:35,710 Gimme this 405 00:25:38,950 --> 00:25:40,950 When we got the first album cover, 406 00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:43,150 I was frozen like a rabbit in the headlights 407 00:25:43,150 --> 00:25:44,390 getting my picture taken. 408 00:25:46,750 --> 00:25:49,750 Put on the album and got me to scream along with the album. 409 00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:51,110 So that's why there's the picture of me 410 00:25:51,110 --> 00:25:52,750 looks like I'm screaming, 411 00:25:52,750 --> 00:25:54,270 which they wouldn't use in America 412 00:25:54,310 --> 00:25:55,590 because it was too aggressive-looking 413 00:25:55,590 --> 00:25:57,990 as far as they were concerned. 414 00:25:58,030 --> 00:25:59,390 I didn't realize that they'd have to do 415 00:25:59,430 --> 00:26:01,310 a different one for America. 416 00:26:01,310 --> 00:26:02,910 It was only when it came out and I thought, 417 00:26:02,910 --> 00:26:04,670 "Yeah, of course they couldn't have 418 00:26:04,670 --> 00:26:06,430 a picture of her screaming." 419 00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:09,510 You know, that would scare too many people. 420 00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:11,790 I had to photograph her for the cover 421 00:26:11,790 --> 00:26:14,310 from the shoulders up 422 00:26:14,310 --> 00:26:16,430 because the record company didn't want to see her pregnant. 423 00:26:16,430 --> 00:26:18,230 Once we had got the pictures 424 00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:21,030 that we knew the record company needed, 425 00:26:21,030 --> 00:26:23,710 we just did what we wanted. 426 00:26:23,710 --> 00:26:26,150 It was, you know, a joy to photograph 427 00:26:26,190 --> 00:26:28,750 this little girl with her bald head and her big belly, 428 00:26:28,750 --> 00:26:31,710 amazing looking. 429 00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:35,390 I think her image screamed more than feminism, 430 00:26:35,430 --> 00:26:37,110 beyond feminism at the time. 431 00:26:37,150 --> 00:26:40,910 I think it was just like non-binary, 432 00:26:40,910 --> 00:26:46,310 incredible intersectional feminist attitude. 433 00:26:46,350 --> 00:26:51,070 Her fashion sense was like 35 years ahead of the time. 434 00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:56,070 People found it problematic just because 435 00:26:56,070 --> 00:27:00,230 they read the language of skinhead into the shaved head. 436 00:27:00,230 --> 00:27:03,150 It suggested some kind of aggression, 437 00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:05,390 but actually the beauty of her features, 438 00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:07,030 the quality of her eyes, 439 00:27:07,030 --> 00:27:10,910 it created a fantastic contradiction. 440 00:27:10,910 --> 00:27:13,670 As a filmmaker, gave me a very graphic, powerful image 441 00:27:13,670 --> 00:27:16,270 from the get-go. 442 00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:17,870 Anytime I worked with John Maybury, 443 00:27:17,870 --> 00:27:19,390 it was amazing 'cos he came with 444 00:27:19,390 --> 00:27:22,470 a whole gang of glorious queens. 445 00:27:22,510 --> 00:27:27,110 The set makers, stylists, the makeup people, you know, 446 00:27:27,150 --> 00:27:31,190 and they like genuinely adored me. 447 00:27:39,550 --> 00:27:42,310 I felt so safe and looked after. 448 00:27:42,310 --> 00:27:44,070 I felt like I had like a hundred daddies. 449 00:27:49,550 --> 00:27:53,630 You do 450 00:27:53,630 --> 00:27:57,550 Something to me 451 00:28:01,030 --> 00:28:04,190 She recognized in us kind of a sense of 452 00:28:04,190 --> 00:28:07,830 some kind of kindred spirit, but there was no judgement. 453 00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:11,430 There was no critiquing in any kind of personal terms. 454 00:28:11,470 --> 00:28:14,470 And she was free to be who she wanted to be within that 455 00:28:14,510 --> 00:28:18,670 because everyone else was free to be who they wanted to be. 456 00:28:18,670 --> 00:28:21,750 I had never, until I went to London, seen gay people. 457 00:28:21,790 --> 00:28:24,070 They were so inspiring and still are to me, 458 00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:26,470 especially the ones that were dressing like women. 459 00:28:28,190 --> 00:28:30,110 You couldn't do that in Ireland. 460 00:28:30,150 --> 00:28:31,710 You'd have the shit kicked out of you, you know? 461 00:28:35,150 --> 00:28:38,190 Let me live 'neath your spell 462 00:28:38,190 --> 00:28:42,270 Do do that voodoo 463 00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:45,910 That you do so well 464 00:28:47,550 --> 00:28:52,430 For you do 465 00:28:52,470 --> 00:28:56,630 Something to me 466 00:28:56,670 --> 00:29:01,030 That nobody else 467 00:29:01,030 --> 00:29:06,590 Can do 468 00:29:06,590 --> 00:29:11,630 That nobody else 469 00:29:13,590 --> 00:29:19,070 Can do 470 00:29:27,470 --> 00:29:31,110 Why I like performing and why I like singing loud 471 00:29:31,110 --> 00:29:33,230 and stuff like that is because 472 00:29:33,230 --> 00:29:36,870 I am quietly spoken and quite withdrawn... 473 00:29:36,870 --> 00:29:40,350 and into myself, and in my, sort of, normal life, 474 00:29:40,350 --> 00:29:43,670 so it's quite a release to climb on the stage and scream for an hour. 475 00:29:43,710 --> 00:29:47,350 At the end of my day 476 00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:49,230 Nothing would 477 00:29:49,230 --> 00:29:53,270 Nothing would Please me better 478 00:29:53,310 --> 00:29:58,790 Than I find that you're there When I wake 479 00:30:01,110 --> 00:30:05,110 Just like you Said it would be 480 00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:07,710 Just like you Said it would be 481 00:30:09,670 --> 00:30:11,950 Just like you Said it would be 482 00:30:13,950 --> 00:30:16,550 Just like you Said it would be 483 00:30:18,190 --> 00:30:22,390 Will you be my lover? 484 00:30:22,390 --> 00:30:26,150 Will you be my mama? 485 00:30:26,150 --> 00:30:29,950 I said will you my my mama? 486 00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:34,910 There are a lot of songs that I've written 487 00:30:34,910 --> 00:30:38,270 about my mother's death or in response to her death. 488 00:30:38,310 --> 00:30:40,590 And " Troy," I think was the first one. 489 00:30:42,270 --> 00:30:44,270 It's also the first song I've wrote 490 00:30:44,270 --> 00:30:46,950 where I'm telling anybody about anything that's happened. 491 00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:48,950 I'll remember it 492 00:30:51,550 --> 00:30:55,390 Dublin in a rainstorm 493 00:30:55,390 --> 00:30:59,830 And sitting In the long grass in summer 494 00:30:59,830 --> 00:31:03,070 Keeping warm... 495 00:31:03,070 --> 00:31:04,670 One of the very traumatic things 496 00:31:04,670 --> 00:31:06,430 that happened to me growing up, 497 00:31:06,430 --> 00:31:08,390 was that my mother had me living in the garden. 498 00:31:08,430 --> 00:31:10,230 So once when I was eight-and-a-half, 499 00:31:10,230 --> 00:31:14,950 I lived in the garden 24/7 for a week or two. 500 00:31:14,950 --> 00:31:17,470 I'm talking in that song about that experience, 501 00:31:17,510 --> 00:31:19,550 the whole thing of sitting in the long grass in summer 502 00:31:19,550 --> 00:31:22,390 trying to keep warm. 503 00:31:22,430 --> 00:31:24,510 So I'm out in the garden in the fucking dark 504 00:31:24,510 --> 00:31:26,310 and when it's coming to dusk and I still hate dusk 505 00:31:26,350 --> 00:31:28,230 to this day, I don't mind if it's day or night, 506 00:31:28,270 --> 00:31:30,790 but dusk, I don't like. 507 00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:32,790 And I'd be looking up at the only window 508 00:31:32,790 --> 00:31:34,950 at the side of the house where she'd have a light on 509 00:31:34,990 --> 00:31:37,470 and I'd be screaming, begging her to let me in. 510 00:31:37,470 --> 00:31:39,070 And she wouldn't let me in, the light would go off, 511 00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:40,750 the house go dark. 512 00:31:43,710 --> 00:31:46,150 Every other song I'm writing is about somebody else 513 00:31:46,150 --> 00:31:47,830 or from the point of view of somebody else. 514 00:31:47,870 --> 00:31:50,350 "Troy" is the first song I've written about me. 515 00:31:50,390 --> 00:31:54,110 It's not a song, it's a fucking testament. 516 00:31:56,950 --> 00:32:00,230 And you should've Left the light on 517 00:32:00,230 --> 00:32:04,590 You should've Left the light on 518 00:32:04,630 --> 00:32:09,470 Then I wouldn't have tried You'd never have known 519 00:32:12,750 --> 00:32:16,150 And I wouldn't have Pulled you tighter 520 00:32:16,150 --> 00:32:20,190 No, I wouldn't have Pulled you close 521 00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:21,630 I wouldn't have screamed 522 00:32:21,670 --> 00:32:25,030 No, I can't let you go 523 00:32:25,030 --> 00:32:28,110 If the door wasn't closed 524 00:32:28,150 --> 00:32:31,990 No, I wouldn't have Pulled you to me 525 00:32:31,990 --> 00:32:36,070 No, I wouldn't have kissed Your face 526 00:32:36,110 --> 00:32:38,830 You wouldn't have Begged me to hold you 527 00:32:38,830 --> 00:32:43,390 If we hadn't been there In the first place 528 00:32:43,390 --> 00:32:48,870 Oh, but I know you Wanted me to be there 529 00:32:48,910 --> 00:32:52,310 Oh, oh 530 00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:57,750 Every look That you threw told me so 531 00:33:01,190 --> 00:33:02,950 "Troy" is not safe. 532 00:33:02,990 --> 00:33:04,670 I don't need to dig that up again. 533 00:33:04,670 --> 00:33:06,110 It's like trauma therapy. 534 00:33:07,830 --> 00:33:10,230 There would've been no point writing 535 00:33:10,270 --> 00:33:12,550 and/or going around the world screaming "Troy" 536 00:33:12,550 --> 00:33:14,670 into microphones, if there wasn't going to come a day, 537 00:33:14,670 --> 00:33:17,030 one day that I didn't need to do that anymore. 538 00:33:20,150 --> 00:33:24,630 Make no difference What you say 539 00:33:24,670 --> 00:33:26,550 You're still a liar 540 00:33:28,750 --> 00:33:30,550 You're still a liar 541 00:33:32,710 --> 00:33:35,750 You're still a liar 542 00:33:49,270 --> 00:33:51,630 Sinéad was pregnant all through the making 543 00:33:51,670 --> 00:33:53,270 of "The Lion and the Cobra" 544 00:33:53,310 --> 00:33:55,310 And I think in many ways, actually, 545 00:33:55,310 --> 00:33:58,710 it was quite grounding to have a baby very young. 546 00:33:58,710 --> 00:34:01,910 In some way, I think it probably kept us sane. 547 00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:08,110 There's nothing more deep and real than a baby. 548 00:34:08,150 --> 00:34:09,990 And there's nothing more fake and unimportant 549 00:34:09,990 --> 00:34:13,230 than fame, really. 550 00:34:13,230 --> 00:34:15,150 Dana Dane making her first appearance on Top of the Pops. 551 00:34:15,150 --> 00:34:17,110 Here's another lady making her first appearance. 552 00:34:17,110 --> 00:34:18,670 She's got an excellent new album out at the moment 553 00:34:18,670 --> 00:34:20,230 called "The Lion and the Cobra", 554 00:34:20,270 --> 00:34:22,550 and a single Mandinka at 22 in the charts. 555 00:34:22,550 --> 00:34:24,390 This is Sinéad O'Connor. 556 00:34:26,670 --> 00:34:28,390 I remember watching 557 00:34:28,430 --> 00:34:30,110 Sinéad on Top of the Pops. 558 00:34:30,110 --> 00:34:32,710 It's just seemed quite surreal to be honest, 559 00:34:32,710 --> 00:34:34,830 because she was just my friend, 560 00:34:34,830 --> 00:34:39,510 but she was this other person in other people's eyes. 561 00:34:40,950 --> 00:34:44,790 I'm dancing the seven veils 562 00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:48,790 Want you to pick up My scarf 563 00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:52,550 See how The black moon fades 564 00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:56,350 Soon I can give you My heart 565 00:35:09,670 --> 00:35:12,790 I don't know no shame 566 00:35:12,790 --> 00:35:14,150 I feel no pain 567 00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:18,950 I can't see the flame 568 00:35:20,990 --> 00:35:25,870 But I do know Mandinka 569 00:35:28,630 --> 00:35:33,990 I do know Mandinka 570 00:35:36,270 --> 00:35:41,470 I do know Mandinka 571 00:35:43,510 --> 00:35:45,350 I do 572 00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:50,710 When "Mandinka" was released, 573 00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:52,550 it just jumps out of the radio, it was one of those songs. 574 00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:57,790 Oh, oh, oh Oh, oh, oh 575 00:35:57,790 --> 00:36:02,670 I do, oh, oh, oh 576 00:36:04,190 --> 00:36:09,670 I said I do 577 00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:15,030 I swear I do... 578 00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:16,830 You know, it was almost like she had always been there 579 00:36:16,830 --> 00:36:19,350 once she came on the scene because you really 580 00:36:19,350 --> 00:36:21,910 couldn't imagine your life without her at that point. 581 00:36:21,910 --> 00:36:26,070 I do Mandinka... 582 00:36:26,070 --> 00:36:29,910 I heard "Mandinka" at a club in Boulder, Colorado. 583 00:36:29,950 --> 00:36:32,470 I just remember hearing the voice and it's nothing 584 00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:36,110 other than something that stops you in your tracks. 585 00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:38,470 Soon I can give You my heart... 586 00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:41,870 I hear that voice and I feel comforted. 587 00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:52,510 And that first album, like, 588 00:36:52,510 --> 00:36:55,390 the entire thing was just stunning. 589 00:36:55,430 --> 00:36:58,950 Telling me he'd be home 590 00:36:58,990 --> 00:37:02,630 Sailed the seas For a hundred years 591 00:37:02,630 --> 00:37:07,710 Leaving me all alone 592 00:37:07,710 --> 00:37:10,790 "The Lion and the Cobra" was an amazing album 593 00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:13,190 just because there was no filler on it. 594 00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:14,910 So as a critic, you know, that was one of the first things 595 00:37:14,910 --> 00:37:16,870 that drew me to it. 596 00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:19,990 She also has a very singular voice and perspective 597 00:37:19,990 --> 00:37:23,870 and very strong personality-wise. 598 00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:25,710 To me, it was like the whole package. 599 00:37:25,710 --> 00:37:28,110 I remember the day The young man came 600 00:37:28,150 --> 00:37:31,830 He said, "Your Jackie's gone We got lost in the rain" 601 00:37:31,870 --> 00:37:35,070 And I ran to the beach 602 00:37:35,070 --> 00:37:36,910 And laid me down... 603 00:37:36,910 --> 00:37:39,150 The thing about "The Lion and the Cobra" is, 604 00:37:39,150 --> 00:37:42,510 you don't get that as a debut album every day. 605 00:37:42,510 --> 00:37:45,470 Those things come like once in a lifetime. 606 00:37:45,470 --> 00:37:47,070 Like the back of his hand 607 00:37:47,070 --> 00:37:49,990 He'll be back sometime 608 00:37:50,030 --> 00:37:52,070 Laughing at you... 609 00:37:52,070 --> 00:37:53,870 And many times in your performances, 610 00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:56,670 there's an intensity, almost a rage burning inside of you. 611 00:37:56,670 --> 00:37:58,190 Where does that come from? 612 00:37:58,230 --> 00:38:00,670 You're a small, demure, quiet sort of person. 613 00:38:00,670 --> 00:38:02,270 I don't know. 614 00:38:02,270 --> 00:38:03,590 Perhaps there's something twisted about me 615 00:38:03,590 --> 00:38:06,190 that I haven't realized yet. 616 00:38:06,190 --> 00:38:08,830 You've also said that non-traditional Irish musicians 617 00:38:08,830 --> 00:38:12,470 seem to have to leave Ireland to make it. 618 00:38:12,510 --> 00:38:15,630 If you're a woman in particular, and unless 619 00:38:15,670 --> 00:38:18,830 you're very sort of timid and you want to make 620 00:38:18,830 --> 00:38:21,630 nice Irish music, which I respect and everything, 621 00:38:21,630 --> 00:38:23,430 life can be very difficult for you because people 622 00:38:23,430 --> 00:38:26,270 can't actually handle a woman doing anything different. 623 00:38:31,430 --> 00:38:34,230 When I leave Ireland, it's virtually unheard of 624 00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:36,630 for a woman to be making her own living 625 00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:38,710 and independent of men. 626 00:38:41,630 --> 00:38:45,030 The Irish fucking constitution still contains the wording 627 00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:47,070 that a woman's place is in the home. 628 00:38:47,070 --> 00:38:51,630 So I was very lucky, from 1985 I was making my own living. 629 00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:54,670 So many people in this country, women in particular, 630 00:38:54,670 --> 00:38:58,830 had to say no when they wanted to say yes to themselves, 631 00:38:58,870 --> 00:39:01,710 or be open about their anger. 632 00:39:01,750 --> 00:39:04,830 At that time in Ireland, women weren't allowed to be angry. 633 00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:06,670 And I think that might've been hard for some of them 634 00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:08,670 because, you know, they had spent their whole life 635 00:39:08,710 --> 00:39:10,390 saying no to themselves. 636 00:39:20,390 --> 00:39:22,470 Tonight, the Grammy awards are presenting 637 00:39:22,470 --> 00:39:24,990 best rock vocal performance female. 638 00:39:24,990 --> 00:39:27,070 Our first performer is 21 years old, 639 00:39:27,110 --> 00:39:29,310 comes from Ireland and with her very first album, 640 00:39:29,310 --> 00:39:31,670 "The Lion and the Cobra", she has served notice 641 00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:33,510 that this is no ordinary talent. 642 00:39:33,510 --> 00:39:36,030 Ladies and gentlemen, please meet Sinéad O'Connor. 643 00:39:51,830 --> 00:39:55,670 I'm dancing the seven veils 644 00:39:55,670 --> 00:39:59,430 Want you to pick up My scarf 645 00:39:59,430 --> 00:40:03,310 See how The black moon fades 646 00:40:03,310 --> 00:40:06,990 Soon I can Give you my heart... 647 00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:08,910 I remember talking to her the next day and she said, 648 00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:12,230 "Oh, my God, I went on stage and Stevie Wonder 649 00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:14,870 was sitting in the front row." 650 00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:18,790 And we were Stevie Wonder freaks. 651 00:40:18,830 --> 00:40:21,390 So this was quite a leap, you know. 652 00:40:21,430 --> 00:40:23,750 I don't know no shame 653 00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:25,270 I feel no pain 654 00:40:25,270 --> 00:40:30,150 I can't see the flame 655 00:40:32,070 --> 00:40:37,750 But I do know Man-din-ka 656 00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:42,150 You know, you're there and you're looking 657 00:40:42,150 --> 00:40:43,910 at all these people that you've watched on the television 658 00:40:43,910 --> 00:40:45,710 and there's people like Quincy Jones and Stevie Wonder 659 00:40:45,710 --> 00:40:47,350 and I was just like... 660 00:40:47,350 --> 00:40:51,150 I do know Mandinka... 661 00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:53,350 As I sang Mandinka, I had "Jake's baby girl" 662 00:40:53,390 --> 00:40:55,870 on the back of my pants and I had Public Enemy logo painted 663 00:40:55,870 --> 00:40:57,750 into the side of my head. 664 00:40:57,750 --> 00:41:00,030 They decided they wouldn't go to the Grammy's 665 00:41:00,030 --> 00:41:02,390 quite rightly because they were protesting. 666 00:41:04,830 --> 00:41:08,710 I protested the Grammy's in 1989 667 00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:10,710 because they refused to recognize 668 00:41:10,710 --> 00:41:12,630 rap music and hip-hop 669 00:41:12,630 --> 00:41:15,110 as a legitimate musical category. 670 00:41:15,110 --> 00:41:17,710 I thought it was like admirable 671 00:41:17,710 --> 00:41:21,030 when she put the Public Enemy logo on her head. 672 00:41:21,030 --> 00:41:23,190 With Sinéad O'Connor, you didn't get the sense 673 00:41:23,190 --> 00:41:24,870 that she was just being pretentious, 674 00:41:24,910 --> 00:41:26,550 that she was fake. 675 00:41:26,550 --> 00:41:28,070 It was like, yeah, 676 00:41:28,110 --> 00:41:30,790 she seriously has issues with this. 677 00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:33,030 This is what's going to drive her artistry, 678 00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:34,390 she's committed to that. 679 00:41:42,910 --> 00:41:45,510 It was a brilliant performance. 680 00:41:45,510 --> 00:41:47,750 At that point, she was the darling of everyone. 681 00:41:53,270 --> 00:41:54,870 In one way, I loved it. 682 00:41:54,870 --> 00:41:57,270 Obviously I was a very young woman 683 00:41:57,270 --> 00:42:00,030 and you kind of fantasize about being famous. 684 00:42:00,070 --> 00:42:03,630 In another way, I was frightened by it. 685 00:42:03,630 --> 00:42:06,030 What maybe was difficult for me was the timing 686 00:42:06,030 --> 00:42:07,990 of the success thing, it meant that I suddenly had 687 00:42:08,030 --> 00:42:12,070 this identity and I didn't feel like it was really me. 688 00:42:12,070 --> 00:42:15,790 To be honest, I also had very little self-esteem. 689 00:42:15,830 --> 00:42:18,710 I couldn't understand why anyone liked my records. 690 00:42:22,350 --> 00:42:24,910 Let me tell you how stupid I am. Um... 691 00:42:24,910 --> 00:42:26,990 Okay. 692 00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:28,790 We were sitting here doing this interview 693 00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:31,510 and I had accepted the fact that your head was shaved 694 00:42:31,510 --> 00:42:34,190 and didn't even think about it very much. 695 00:42:34,190 --> 00:42:36,510 Well, that's good, that means we don't have to talk about it. 696 00:42:36,510 --> 00:42:38,550 I know, but I see, everybody else in America 697 00:42:38,550 --> 00:42:40,310 is looking at me saying, 698 00:42:40,310 --> 00:42:42,630 "Why doesn't that idiot ask her why her head is shaved?" 699 00:42:42,670 --> 00:42:44,870 So now I'm doing it. 700 00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:47,910 I just cut my hair because I wanted to cut my hair, you know? 701 00:42:47,910 --> 00:42:50,110 It's like, you know, I wear red knickers one day 702 00:42:50,150 --> 00:42:52,470 because I want to wear red knickers, you know? 703 00:42:52,470 --> 00:42:54,310 And then black another day. 704 00:42:54,310 --> 00:42:55,950 We wouldn't call those knickers though, we'd call it... 705 00:42:55,990 --> 00:42:57,750 No. 706 00:43:05,710 --> 00:43:09,910 We got married at the spiritualist centre in Sloane Square 707 00:43:09,910 --> 00:43:13,070 and we'd been going to the spiritualist centre a lot 708 00:43:13,070 --> 00:43:15,630 because obviously, Sinéad lost her mom, 709 00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:17,830 I'd lost my dad and a sister. 710 00:43:17,830 --> 00:43:20,070 And we were kind of trying to make 711 00:43:20,070 --> 00:43:23,830 some kind of spiritual connections if we could. 712 00:43:23,830 --> 00:43:26,430 It was a sort of a therapy for us in a way. 713 00:43:26,430 --> 00:43:29,950 We had an amazing time there, so we got married there. 714 00:43:29,950 --> 00:43:31,710 It was brilliant, it was a great day. 715 00:43:44,270 --> 00:43:48,670 In 1989, we filmed Hush-a-Bye Baby in Derry. 716 00:43:48,670 --> 00:43:51,270 And it was in that film Hush-a-Bye Baby 717 00:43:51,270 --> 00:43:53,710 that Sinéad made her acting debut. 718 00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:57,270 She came over with John. 719 00:43:57,270 --> 00:43:59,710 She was fairly newly married, I think. 720 00:43:59,710 --> 00:44:01,710 She brought her little son, Jake, 721 00:44:01,750 --> 00:44:04,270 who was just a toddler at that stage. 722 00:44:04,310 --> 00:44:08,790 Of course, I only have eyes for Lecce Loves. 723 00:44:15,910 --> 00:44:18,830 Jesus Christ, Nigella. 724 00:44:18,830 --> 00:44:21,230 We'll be barred and it'll be your fault. 725 00:44:21,230 --> 00:44:23,710 Sloppy tit, going on about what's his face. 726 00:44:28,910 --> 00:44:31,350 We were trying to contribute to the debate 727 00:44:31,350 --> 00:44:35,070 that was raging in Ireland at the time about abortion rights 728 00:44:35,070 --> 00:44:38,350 and women's sexuality and how women were being treated. 729 00:44:38,350 --> 00:44:40,310 And I think she had exactly the same feelings 730 00:44:40,350 --> 00:44:43,430 like so many thousands of other women, 731 00:44:43,470 --> 00:44:46,830 especially young women. 732 00:44:46,830 --> 00:44:49,790 It's about a 15-year-old school girl who gets pregnant 733 00:44:49,830 --> 00:44:53,470 and about the obvious trauma and awfulness 734 00:44:53,470 --> 00:44:55,470 that she goes through because of the fact 735 00:44:55,470 --> 00:44:57,470 that she's pregnant and the fact that teenage pregnancy 736 00:44:57,470 --> 00:44:59,670 is just the worst thing that could possibly happen 737 00:44:59,670 --> 00:45:02,550 and people aren't very supportive about it in general. 738 00:45:02,590 --> 00:45:05,310 And girls are made to feel as if they're sluts 739 00:45:05,310 --> 00:45:08,310 and they're some sort of whore, you know, 740 00:45:08,310 --> 00:45:10,190 for sleeping with somebody and things like that. 741 00:45:10,190 --> 00:45:11,990 And because of things like the church 742 00:45:12,030 --> 00:45:14,670 and the contraceptive laws and all that sort of thing 743 00:45:14,670 --> 00:45:15,750 and the abortion laws. 744 00:45:21,150 --> 00:45:25,350 In the 80s and 90s and obviously the decades before that, 745 00:45:25,350 --> 00:45:28,950 women were treated abominably in Ireland. 746 00:45:28,950 --> 00:45:34,870 Women's lives were patrolled and investigated and surveilled 747 00:45:34,870 --> 00:45:39,070 and tampered with every minute of their lives. 748 00:45:39,110 --> 00:45:40,750 It was appalling. 749 00:45:46,150 --> 00:45:47,710 There was a sense of being in this 750 00:45:47,710 --> 00:45:49,830 little backward place, you know, 751 00:45:49,830 --> 00:45:51,790 where the light wasn't really shining brightly 752 00:45:51,790 --> 00:45:53,870 and you couldn't get contraception, 753 00:45:53,910 --> 00:45:57,870 you couldn't get condoms, so this was a big issue. 754 00:45:57,870 --> 00:46:01,150 You didn't talk about sex and you certainly didn't talk about abortion. 755 00:46:04,270 --> 00:46:06,670 It's quite a similar story to your own, isn't it? 756 00:46:06,670 --> 00:46:08,470 No. 757 00:46:08,470 --> 00:46:10,630 You had a baby when you were very young. 758 00:46:10,670 --> 00:46:14,870 Last time you told me that there were certain attitudes in Ireland. 759 00:46:14,910 --> 00:46:16,550 Yeah, except I had a baby when I was 20 760 00:46:16,550 --> 00:46:18,550 and I was living in London and I had enough money 761 00:46:18,550 --> 00:46:20,990 to get a nanny and I had a boyfriend who was living with me 762 00:46:20,990 --> 00:46:23,110 and I wasn't in school. 763 00:46:23,150 --> 00:46:27,710 And I was in a society that doesn't look down on pregnancy 764 00:46:27,710 --> 00:46:29,630 as much as Ireland does. 765 00:46:29,630 --> 00:46:33,590 So I don't think you can compare that to a 15-year-old girl 766 00:46:33,630 --> 00:46:36,630 who has no money and no boyfriend and no support 767 00:46:36,630 --> 00:46:38,070 from anybody, you know what I mean? 768 00:46:38,110 --> 00:46:41,670 - I think I was in very... - nice circumstances 769 00:46:41,670 --> 00:46:44,030 compared to those girls. 770 00:46:53,310 --> 00:46:56,910 It seems years Since you held the baby... 771 00:46:56,910 --> 00:46:58,630 When you put your first album out, 772 00:46:58,670 --> 00:47:00,470 you don't really expect anything to happen. 773 00:47:00,470 --> 00:47:03,070 You don't have any expectations in you when you do that. 774 00:47:03,070 --> 00:47:07,030 You're not aware of the whole world 775 00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:08,910 of goodies and baddies 776 00:47:08,910 --> 00:47:11,350 to be discovered. 777 00:47:11,390 --> 00:47:14,630 And I remember I was quite taken aback by the whole thing, 778 00:47:14,670 --> 00:47:17,590 amused at the idea of me sitting and doing press conferences 779 00:47:17,630 --> 00:47:18,710 and things like that because it was just 780 00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:21,710 like completely ludicrous. 781 00:47:21,710 --> 00:47:23,710 You know, at the time that I had my baby 782 00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:25,790 and put my album out I was 20, 783 00:47:25,790 --> 00:47:28,150 which was extremely young. 784 00:47:28,190 --> 00:47:31,630 And now I'm 23 which is still extremely young 785 00:47:31,670 --> 00:47:36,230 and I'm still developing my "personality", in inverted commas. 786 00:47:36,270 --> 00:47:39,270 And I'm still discovering things about myself 787 00:47:39,270 --> 00:47:41,430 and about the world, you know? 788 00:47:41,430 --> 00:47:44,670 So naturally, I'm not going to be the same 789 00:47:44,670 --> 00:47:46,150 as I was when I was 20. 790 00:47:48,870 --> 00:47:51,830 When the album "I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got", 791 00:47:51,830 --> 00:47:56,310 was finished, we took it into Nigel Grange in Ensign 792 00:47:56,350 --> 00:47:59,310 and he said, "This is like reading somebody's diaries. 793 00:47:59,350 --> 00:48:01,310 I'm not putting it out." 794 00:48:01,310 --> 00:48:03,230 Sinéad just said, "Well, that's it," 795 00:48:03,230 --> 00:48:05,990 you know, end of story. 796 00:48:05,990 --> 00:48:07,670 Didn't compromise it in any way. 797 00:48:09,830 --> 00:48:12,710 Well, I am far more proud of this album 798 00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:14,270 than I was of the last one. 799 00:48:14,270 --> 00:48:16,390 I feel that it's much more truly reflective 800 00:48:16,390 --> 00:48:18,110 of me than the last one was. 801 00:48:18,110 --> 00:48:19,470 And I've had much more involvement in it 802 00:48:19,470 --> 00:48:20,550 than I had in the last one. 803 00:48:22,190 --> 00:48:25,230 The way she grew in confidence 804 00:48:25,230 --> 00:48:26,830 was something else. 805 00:48:28,750 --> 00:48:32,110 She's a powerful, sexual being. 806 00:48:32,150 --> 00:48:36,990 I think she was enjoying playing with the gender roles, 807 00:48:36,990 --> 00:48:38,910 the kind of toughness of the leather jacket 808 00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:42,030 and the toughness of denim or the Dr. Martin boots 809 00:48:42,030 --> 00:48:46,310 or whatever it was that she was bringing at the time. 810 00:48:46,350 --> 00:48:48,830 There's always still this beautiful woman, 811 00:48:48,830 --> 00:48:50,430 beautiful girl inside of that. 812 00:48:50,430 --> 00:48:53,510 So she was playing with gender herself. 813 00:48:57,830 --> 00:49:03,030 She came to understand the nature of what we were doing 814 00:49:03,030 --> 00:49:05,470 with pop videos and also, obviously, at a certain point 815 00:49:05,470 --> 00:49:09,990 with a certain video, we came to understand just how much 816 00:49:09,990 --> 00:49:13,790 the videos could change the perception of the music 817 00:49:13,790 --> 00:49:15,150 and her as a musician. 818 00:49:30,270 --> 00:49:32,270 "The Nothing Compares To You" video, 819 00:49:32,310 --> 00:49:35,870 she came back with all the rushes on a VHS 820 00:49:35,910 --> 00:49:38,030 and we've stuck it into the video machine, I was watching it. 821 00:49:38,030 --> 00:49:41,110 And that's when I thought, "Wow, this is really, 822 00:49:41,110 --> 00:49:42,710 really special." 823 00:49:46,470 --> 00:49:50,030 The video was shot both in studio and it was shot 824 00:49:50,030 --> 00:49:53,750 in the Parc Saint-Cloud, which is this beautiful 825 00:49:53,750 --> 00:49:56,950 18th-century park just outside of Paris. 826 00:50:02,870 --> 00:50:05,910 The extraordinary close-up work that John did 827 00:50:05,910 --> 00:50:09,310 with the lighting camerawoman, Dominique Le Rigoleur, 828 00:50:09,310 --> 00:50:13,150 who we chose particularly because we wanted a female 829 00:50:13,150 --> 00:50:17,710 to create a relationship between Sinéad and the camera. 830 00:50:24,270 --> 00:50:26,350 In between takes, 831 00:50:26,350 --> 00:50:30,030 Sinéad would click on some really heavy duty dub reggae 832 00:50:30,070 --> 00:50:32,750 and light up a spliff, and be bopping around the studio. 833 00:50:36,070 --> 00:50:38,750 We weren't in a kind of particularly sombre mood. 834 00:50:40,710 --> 00:50:44,510 Looking into my monitor, looking down that lens, 835 00:50:44,510 --> 00:50:48,390 I saw right there, this connection coming down the camera... 836 00:50:49,590 --> 00:50:51,670 It was like, "Oh, okay, 837 00:50:51,670 --> 00:50:54,550 this is really something else. 838 00:50:54,550 --> 00:50:57,590 It's not my direction, it's not the cinematography, 839 00:50:57,590 --> 00:50:59,150 it's entirely her." 840 00:51:02,350 --> 00:51:04,310 If you don't 841 00:51:04,350 --> 00:51:06,710 identify emotionally with a song, you can't sing it. 842 00:51:27,430 --> 00:51:29,350 I didn't know I was gonna cry singing it. 843 00:51:29,390 --> 00:51:30,990 I didn't cry in the studio, 844 00:51:31,030 --> 00:51:32,590 it was just because of the big eye on me 845 00:51:32,630 --> 00:51:34,270 in the form of a camera. 846 00:51:38,990 --> 00:51:41,630 Every time I sing the song, I think of my mother. 847 00:51:44,710 --> 00:51:46,910 I never stopped crying for my mother for, Jesus, 848 00:51:46,910 --> 00:51:50,150 I couldn't face being in Ireland for 13 years. 849 00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:53,510 I never even called home, I just cut myself off entirely 850 00:51:53,510 --> 00:51:57,750 but it took me, I would say, 25 years to stop crying. 851 00:51:57,790 --> 00:52:01,070 So yeah, I was thinking of her and I suppose my subconscious 852 00:52:01,070 --> 00:52:03,750 was thinking of that little girl that sat in the garden. 853 00:52:08,910 --> 00:52:11,510 I think it's funny that the world fell in love with me 854 00:52:11,510 --> 00:52:13,790 because of crying and a tear. 855 00:52:13,830 --> 00:52:15,470 I went and did a lot of crying 856 00:52:15,470 --> 00:52:16,670 and everybody was like, "Oh, you crazy bitch," 857 00:52:16,670 --> 00:52:18,710 but actually, hold on. 858 00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:20,670 You fell in love with that tear, that was a mirror. 859 00:52:29,030 --> 00:52:32,550 Sit yourself down, well done. 860 00:52:32,550 --> 00:52:35,030 - The hair is growing! - Just a little bit. 861 00:52:35,030 --> 00:52:36,910 Just a little bit, a wee bit. 862 00:52:36,910 --> 00:52:38,430 How are you then? 863 00:52:38,430 --> 00:52:40,110 I'm grand, I'm a bit tired, but I'm fine. 864 00:52:40,110 --> 00:52:41,750 - A little bit tired, yeah. - So we're told. 865 00:52:41,790 --> 00:52:43,430 Good to see you. Will you be number one on Monday? 866 00:52:43,470 --> 00:52:44,710 I don't know, you know. 867 00:52:47,150 --> 00:52:48,830 You're all very kind. 868 00:52:48,870 --> 00:52:49,910 I don't want to count my chickens. 869 00:52:49,910 --> 00:52:52,150 You know what I mean? 870 00:52:52,150 --> 00:52:54,670 Half of me sorta says, oh, well, you know, 871 00:52:54,710 --> 00:52:56,190 it doesn't really make a difference, 872 00:52:56,190 --> 00:52:57,870 but then the other half is sort of going, 873 00:52:57,870 --> 00:52:59,790 oh, please, God, please.- 874 00:52:59,790 --> 00:53:01,510 It would be nice, wouldn't it? 875 00:53:01,550 --> 00:53:02,950 We shouldn't even be thinking about this. 876 00:53:02,990 --> 00:53:03,990 Shouldn't even be thinking about it, okay. 877 00:53:03,990 --> 00:53:05,750 When will you know? 878 00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:07,830 Ten to three on Sunday afternoon. 879 00:53:11,030 --> 00:53:13,310 But I've got to try not to think about it. 880 00:53:13,350 --> 00:53:15,030 The song went number one, 881 00:53:15,070 --> 00:53:18,070 everywhere in the world pretty much. 882 00:53:18,070 --> 00:53:20,070 Then everything changed overnight. 883 00:53:20,110 --> 00:53:23,910 - And the winner is... - Sinéad O'Connor. 884 00:53:23,950 --> 00:53:26,110 - Sinéad O'Connor. - Sinéad O'Connor. 885 00:53:29,430 --> 00:53:30,510 I don't really know what to say, 886 00:53:30,510 --> 00:53:31,790 except thank you very much. 887 00:53:32,750 --> 00:53:34,710 You know, peace. 888 00:53:38,790 --> 00:53:41,310 It's Sinéad O'Connor. 889 00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:45,150 Sinéad, "Nothing Compares To You." 890 00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:49,670 The level of when "Nothing Compares To You" 891 00:53:49,710 --> 00:53:51,430 became a hit was extraordinary. 892 00:53:51,470 --> 00:53:53,030 It really was off the scale. 893 00:53:54,270 --> 00:53:56,190 She was the biggest thing. 894 00:53:56,190 --> 00:53:57,630 I mean you think of artists like Billie Eilish now 895 00:53:57,670 --> 00:53:59,910 or Amy Winehouse, 896 00:53:59,910 --> 00:54:02,430 you know that level of intensity that's on you. 897 00:54:02,430 --> 00:54:06,950 And also if you're incredibly iconic in your look 898 00:54:06,950 --> 00:54:08,950 and your style and your passion, 899 00:54:08,950 --> 00:54:10,710 then there's a lot of focus on you. 900 00:54:15,590 --> 00:54:18,510 I didn't realize how huge the single and the album were. 901 00:54:18,550 --> 00:54:20,150 I really didn't. 902 00:54:20,150 --> 00:54:21,590 And I looked in some magazine the other day 903 00:54:21,630 --> 00:54:24,030 and it said that the record had been 904 00:54:24,070 --> 00:54:27,310 something like the fourth biggest record in America, 905 00:54:27,350 --> 00:54:28,830 I nearly dropped dead. 906 00:54:28,830 --> 00:54:30,630 I didn't have the slightest idea. 907 00:54:30,630 --> 00:54:32,870 The single went to number one in America. 908 00:54:32,910 --> 00:54:35,670 She was suddenly a major act. 909 00:54:43,750 --> 00:54:44,790 Hello! 910 00:54:47,590 --> 00:54:49,990 The tour got bigger and bigger instead of theatres, 911 00:54:49,990 --> 00:54:53,590 we got into arenas and stadiums. 912 00:54:55,470 --> 00:54:58,510 It seems like years Since you held the baby 913 00:54:58,510 --> 00:55:01,830 While I wrecked the bedroom 914 00:55:01,870 --> 00:55:05,990 You said it was Dangerous after Sunday 915 00:55:05,990 --> 00:55:09,110 And I knew you loved me... 916 00:55:09,110 --> 00:55:11,390 She seemed to take it all in her stride. 917 00:55:11,390 --> 00:55:13,790 There were some days when she was sort of like, 918 00:55:13,790 --> 00:55:16,990 "Oh, this is a bit much," most of the time she seemed to enjoy it. 919 00:55:16,990 --> 00:55:18,590 There was obviously a feeling of like, 920 00:55:18,590 --> 00:55:20,190 "Oh, well, this is going to be great." 921 00:55:20,190 --> 00:55:21,790 It was going to be good anyway, 922 00:55:21,830 --> 00:55:23,350 but this is going to be really good. 923 00:55:34,270 --> 00:55:39,150 I am stretched On your grave 924 00:55:39,150 --> 00:55:44,430 And will lie there forever 925 00:55:44,430 --> 00:55:49,550 If your hands were in mine 926 00:55:49,550 --> 00:55:54,310 I'd be sure we'd not sever 927 00:55:57,230 --> 00:56:03,590 My apple tree My brightness 928 00:56:03,590 --> 00:56:09,030 It's time we were together 929 00:56:12,470 --> 00:56:17,750 For I smell of the earth 930 00:56:17,750 --> 00:56:23,670 And am worn By the weather... 931 00:56:23,670 --> 00:56:25,670 About halfway through the tour, 932 00:56:25,710 --> 00:56:27,790 we did a place in New Jersey. 933 00:56:27,790 --> 00:56:29,870 It was an open air venue. 934 00:56:29,870 --> 00:56:32,230 For some reason, 935 00:56:32,230 --> 00:56:33,790 they always played the National Anthem before the main act. 936 00:56:33,830 --> 00:56:34,910 Sinéad got to hear about it, and said 937 00:56:34,910 --> 00:56:37,350 "There's no way. 938 00:56:37,350 --> 00:56:39,670 I'm not going on stage if you play the National Anthem." 939 00:56:39,670 --> 00:56:42,870 So there was a bit of an argument between management 940 00:56:42,870 --> 00:56:45,070 and management of the venue, 941 00:56:45,070 --> 00:56:46,950 but in the end, the venue relented, they said, 942 00:56:46,950 --> 00:56:48,270 - "Alright, alright. - If you don't want it played, 943 00:56:48,310 --> 00:56:50,710 we won't play it." 944 00:56:50,750 --> 00:56:52,710 And I thought, "Oh, this is going to be everywhere tomorrow." 945 00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:55,830 Going down to breakfast, you hear the immortal words. 946 00:56:55,870 --> 00:56:58,190 "Oh, God, have you seen the papers?" 947 00:56:58,190 --> 00:57:03,630 First, the explosion, then the fallout. 948 00:57:03,630 --> 00:57:06,070 Hi, 95.5 PLJ, it's Fast Jimmy, 949 00:57:06,070 --> 00:57:09,070 and you will hear no Sinéad O'Connor on this radio station. 950 00:57:09,070 --> 00:57:11,110 Sinéad O'Connor is being shaved 951 00:57:11,110 --> 00:57:13,630 from the airwaves because of a recent refusal 952 00:57:13,630 --> 00:57:16,830 to perform in concert if the National Anthem was played. 953 00:57:16,870 --> 00:57:18,910 With American soldiers on foreign soil 954 00:57:18,910 --> 00:57:20,550 poised for conflict, 955 00:57:20,590 --> 00:57:22,910 patriotism is running at fever pitch. 956 00:57:22,910 --> 00:57:25,110 We decided Monday morning, that since we played 957 00:57:25,150 --> 00:57:26,910 the National Anthem on our station 958 00:57:26,950 --> 00:57:29,190 to support the troops over in the Middle East, 959 00:57:29,190 --> 00:57:30,790 that she probably wouldn't welcome 960 00:57:30,790 --> 00:57:32,110 being played on our station either. 961 00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:33,790 The wrong time, the wrong place 962 00:57:33,790 --> 00:57:35,710 and the wrong way to throw a tantrum. 963 00:57:35,710 --> 00:57:36,830 Someone should just have said to her, 964 00:57:36,870 --> 00:57:38,070 within her own management, 965 00:57:38,110 --> 00:57:40,230 "Sinéad, shut up." 966 00:57:40,270 --> 00:57:42,230 You don't like America, then get the hell out. 967 00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:44,550 My opinion is she should go back to Ireland 968 00:57:44,550 --> 00:57:46,510 or wherever the hell she is from. 969 00:57:46,510 --> 00:57:50,110 Don't tell my country, you can't play the National Anthem. 970 00:57:50,110 --> 00:57:54,310 I didn't put the marine green on to listen to some bald-headed Irish girl 971 00:57:54,310 --> 00:57:56,670 tell me I can't hear my National Anthem. 972 00:57:56,710 --> 00:57:59,390 She wants the money, the fame and the glorification. 973 00:57:59,390 --> 00:58:01,870 But she's going to have to be sensitive to some issues. 974 00:58:01,910 --> 00:58:04,350 One extreme patriot is Frank Sinatra, 975 00:58:04,390 --> 00:58:06,710 who said he would like to kick her ass. 976 00:58:06,710 --> 00:58:09,150 "At his age, he couldn't lift his leg high enough 977 00:58:09,190 --> 00:58:11,470 to kick her ass", says Sinéad's father, John O'Connor. 978 00:58:15,030 --> 00:58:16,670 As soon as someone highlighted 979 00:58:16,710 --> 00:58:18,390 that it had to be played, she would say, 980 00:58:18,390 --> 00:58:20,030 - "- Well, you can't censor me. - This is my show 981 00:58:20,070 --> 00:58:22,670 and why are you telling me what to do?" 982 00:58:22,670 --> 00:58:25,190 America is the land of free speech, and they're telling her 983 00:58:25,190 --> 00:58:28,310 she's not allowed to have her free speech. 984 00:58:28,310 --> 00:58:33,110 - Issue number 3, the bald chick. - What's with her head? 985 00:58:33,110 --> 00:58:36,030 - Let's start with the chick. - What gives, Cue ball? 986 00:58:36,070 --> 00:58:39,230 I'm looking at you. I'm thinking 14 in the side pocket. 987 00:58:42,830 --> 00:58:44,550 I can't believe you're talking 988 00:58:44,550 --> 00:58:46,590 about my hair with all the bloody starvation 989 00:58:46,630 --> 00:58:48,830 and the suffering in the world right now. 990 00:58:51,430 --> 00:58:55,670 - Come on, swing baby, you're platinum. - Forget the head. 991 00:58:55,710 --> 00:58:58,870 Put a bag over it and do your business. 992 00:58:58,870 --> 00:59:00,790 I think that, certainly, the industry 993 00:59:00,790 --> 00:59:03,910 can be extremely patronizing towards women. 994 00:59:03,950 --> 00:59:06,110 You're supposed to have long hair wear push-up bras 995 00:59:06,150 --> 00:59:09,230 and lip gloss, you know, and shut up and sing. 996 00:59:09,270 --> 00:59:11,830 Maybe if I was a man, there wouldn't be such a fuss about it 997 00:59:11,830 --> 00:59:13,550 you know what I mean? 998 00:59:13,590 --> 00:59:15,270 It's just not expected of women, I don't know. 999 00:59:15,310 --> 00:59:18,990 But then nothing about me, particularly, in people's minds, 1000 00:59:18,990 --> 00:59:22,230 conforms to what a woman should conform to. 1001 00:59:22,230 --> 00:59:23,870 But I don't know if it's so much a conscious problem 1002 00:59:23,910 --> 00:59:26,310 that they have because I'm a woman. 1003 00:59:26,310 --> 00:59:30,910 I think it's because I'm not a conformist on any level. 1004 00:59:30,910 --> 00:59:33,070 You know what I mean? 1005 00:59:33,070 --> 00:59:34,190 Tell me about this row about the National Anthem, 1006 00:59:34,190 --> 00:59:36,310 were you right to get into that? 1007 00:59:36,350 --> 00:59:38,550 I don't think it was a situation being wrong or right. 1008 00:59:38,550 --> 00:59:40,590 It was a situation of, I acted at the time 1009 00:59:40,630 --> 00:59:44,430 in the way that I felt would be most true to myself. 1010 00:59:44,470 --> 00:59:46,350 I didn't mean to offend anybody. 1011 00:59:46,350 --> 00:59:50,030 I did it because I have a huge problem 1012 00:59:50,030 --> 00:59:51,510 with the censorship movement 1013 00:59:51,510 --> 00:59:52,750 that's happening in America at the moment. 1014 00:59:52,750 --> 00:59:54,750 It has terrible implications. 1015 00:59:54,750 --> 00:59:56,630 The idea that artists, you know, 1016 00:59:56,630 --> 00:59:58,790 painters, photographers, musicians, poets, 1017 00:59:58,830 --> 01:00:00,350 and people like that 1018 01:00:00,350 --> 01:00:02,030 are being told what they may and may not say 1019 01:00:02,070 --> 01:00:03,750 and what they may or may not write about. 1020 01:00:03,750 --> 01:00:05,710 - Where is that happening? - -In America, 1021 01:00:05,710 --> 01:00:08,830 in particular among the Black community it's happening. 1022 01:00:08,830 --> 01:00:10,750 So, I have two problems with it. 1023 01:00:10,750 --> 01:00:12,830 First of all, that I don't think censorship should happen 1024 01:00:12,830 --> 01:00:14,510 at all to anybody. 1025 01:00:14,510 --> 01:00:15,710 But secondly, I think that a lot of the time 1026 01:00:15,710 --> 01:00:16,910 there's a lot of White artists 1027 01:00:16,950 --> 01:00:18,750 who are very offensive as well, 1028 01:00:18,750 --> 01:00:20,150 and they don't get censored. 1029 01:00:20,190 --> 01:00:22,270 So it leaves me thinking that it's 1030 01:00:22,270 --> 01:00:25,030 a slightly racist problem as well. 1031 01:00:25,070 --> 01:00:27,030 So, you know, if it happened now, 1032 01:00:27,070 --> 01:00:29,470 I might've reacted in a different way, 1033 01:00:29,470 --> 01:00:31,750 I didn't realize that people would take such offence to it. 1034 01:00:31,750 --> 01:00:34,510 - Because I didn't mean offence. - You know what I mean? 1035 01:00:34,510 --> 01:00:35,870 The problem is that a lot of people would say, 1036 01:00:35,910 --> 01:00:37,910 well, you didn't not take the money. 1037 01:00:37,910 --> 01:00:39,350 You know, if they asked me for the money, 1038 01:00:39,350 --> 01:00:40,870 I would gladly have given it to them. 1039 01:00:40,870 --> 01:00:42,190 - You would, you would. - All the money? 1040 01:00:42,190 --> 01:00:44,470 - Absolutely. - All the money, Sinéad? 1041 01:00:44,470 --> 01:00:47,110 Can't go through life giving back the money. 1042 01:00:47,150 --> 01:00:48,710 I don't perform or make records or do anything 1043 01:00:48,750 --> 01:00:50,150 in order to make money. 1044 01:00:50,190 --> 01:00:51,390 It's not the thing that I hold 1045 01:00:51,390 --> 01:00:53,470 most important in my life. 1046 01:00:53,470 --> 01:00:55,590 Well, I heard that she doesn't like Ireland 1047 01:00:55,590 --> 01:00:58,390 and she doesn't like the USA. 1048 01:00:58,390 --> 01:01:00,990 So they're going to be handing out American flags. 1049 01:01:01,030 --> 01:01:04,070 So we're going to wave it at her and see what she does. 1050 01:01:04,070 --> 01:01:06,750 Controversy surrounds her wherever she is. 1051 01:01:06,750 --> 01:01:07,870 Why do you think that is? 1052 01:01:07,870 --> 01:01:09,710 Just because of who she is. 1053 01:01:09,710 --> 01:01:12,230 - I don't think she gets a fair... - because of the way she looks, 1054 01:01:12,230 --> 01:01:13,710 I don't think people treat her fairly. 1055 01:01:15,910 --> 01:01:17,670 It's a very patriotic country. 1056 01:01:17,710 --> 01:01:19,710 And a lot of people have been told 1057 01:01:19,710 --> 01:01:23,030 that I have some sort of anti-American feeling, 1058 01:01:23,070 --> 01:01:25,430 which is very irresponsible on behalf of the media, 1059 01:01:25,470 --> 01:01:29,270 because that does put a person in a situation 1060 01:01:29,310 --> 01:01:30,990 where literally their life could be at risk. 1061 01:01:30,990 --> 01:01:32,510 You know what I mean? 1062 01:01:35,150 --> 01:01:36,790 When the press started to attack her 1063 01:01:36,790 --> 01:01:39,270 that was really difficult. 1064 01:01:39,270 --> 01:01:43,310 They arrived at the door in London and Jake was with me 1065 01:01:43,310 --> 01:01:45,510 and he was only very young 1066 01:01:45,510 --> 01:01:47,710 and they started to fire questions, 1067 01:01:47,710 --> 01:01:49,910 you know, while Jake was next to me. 1068 01:01:49,910 --> 01:01:52,750 - And I just, I just was... - I was absolutely furious. 1069 01:01:57,910 --> 01:02:03,310 Margaret Thatcher on TV 1070 01:02:03,310 --> 01:02:08,470 Shocked by the deaths That took place in Beijing... 1071 01:02:08,510 --> 01:02:11,070 She's always championed justice. 1072 01:02:11,070 --> 01:02:13,070 You know, if something wasn't right, 1073 01:02:13,070 --> 01:02:15,750 she would step in and try and do something about it. 1074 01:02:18,630 --> 01:02:20,630 Listen, this song that I heard, 1075 01:02:20,630 --> 01:02:22,310 "Black Boys on Mopeds" 1076 01:02:22,310 --> 01:02:24,510 about the treatment of Black people in England. 1077 01:02:24,510 --> 01:02:27,550 Very political, Sinéad. 1078 01:02:27,550 --> 01:02:29,270 Well you can't really talk about racism 1079 01:02:29,270 --> 01:02:30,790 without being political. 1080 01:02:30,790 --> 01:02:33,910 Yes. True, true. 1081 01:02:33,910 --> 01:02:35,550 England's not The mythical land 1082 01:02:35,550 --> 01:02:38,830 Of Madame George and roses 1083 01:02:38,830 --> 01:02:42,070 It's the home of police 1084 01:02:42,070 --> 01:02:45,870 Who kill Black boys On mopeds 1085 01:02:45,870 --> 01:02:48,910 And I love my boy 1086 01:02:48,950 --> 01:02:52,870 And that's why I'm leaving 1087 01:02:52,870 --> 01:02:56,510 I don't want him To be aware that there's 1088 01:02:56,510 --> 01:03:00,510 Any such thing as grieving 1089 01:03:03,190 --> 01:03:08,270 Young mother Down at Smithfield 1090 01:03:08,310 --> 01:03:12,670 5:00 a.m., looking for food For her kids... 1091 01:03:12,670 --> 01:03:14,670 We were living in Stoke Newington 1092 01:03:14,710 --> 01:03:17,510 when she wrote that song, you know, it was around us, 1093 01:03:17,550 --> 01:03:21,270 you know, that kind of police versus the Black community. 1094 01:03:21,270 --> 01:03:22,910 It was ugly at that point, 1095 01:03:22,910 --> 01:03:24,910 particularly in that part of London. 1096 01:03:24,910 --> 01:03:26,870 The police are picking on children! 1097 01:03:26,910 --> 01:03:28,310 I write songs about things 1098 01:03:28,350 --> 01:03:30,270 that I feel strongly about. 1099 01:03:30,310 --> 01:03:32,150 It's not consciously to write a political song 1100 01:03:32,150 --> 01:03:33,670 or consciously to make a statement about anything. 1101 01:03:33,710 --> 01:03:36,150 And I think that that's what every person's duty 1102 01:03:36,150 --> 01:03:39,710 to themselves is, is to act on their feelings and to say, 1103 01:03:39,750 --> 01:03:42,190 when they think something's wrong. 1104 01:03:42,190 --> 01:03:44,030 It doesn't matter whether they're, you know, a singer, or whatever they are. 1105 01:03:44,030 --> 01:03:46,070 Yes, and take the consequences. 1106 01:03:46,110 --> 01:03:47,350 I imagine so. 1107 01:03:52,510 --> 01:03:54,310 I'm an Irish artist, 1108 01:03:54,350 --> 01:03:55,870 and there's a tradition among Irish artists 1109 01:03:55,870 --> 01:03:57,830 of being agitators and activists. 1110 01:03:57,870 --> 01:03:59,870 You know, whether they're playwrights or poets. 1111 01:04:02,070 --> 01:04:04,870 An artists job is sometimes to create 1112 01:04:04,910 --> 01:04:07,710 the difficult conversations that need to be had. 1113 01:04:07,710 --> 01:04:09,430 And it's none of my business, 1114 01:04:09,470 --> 01:04:11,550 what anyone thinks of me when I do that. 1115 01:04:16,310 --> 01:04:18,430 The right to choose an abortion, 1116 01:04:18,430 --> 01:04:21,350 the right to information on where to obtain one. 1117 01:04:21,350 --> 01:04:24,110 In Dublin's O'Connell street, singer Sinéad O'Connor 1118 01:04:24,110 --> 01:04:28,030 speaks out against her country's stringent abortion laws. 1119 01:04:28,070 --> 01:04:31,270 Abortion will be legalized in this country very soon. 1120 01:04:31,310 --> 01:04:33,070 Let's have another referendum 1121 01:04:33,110 --> 01:04:36,110 when only women of childbearing age vote 1122 01:04:36,110 --> 01:04:38,870 for the right to choose their own destiny. 1123 01:04:38,870 --> 01:04:41,310 What I believe is that you cannot take away 1124 01:04:41,310 --> 01:04:43,070 a person's right to choose. 1125 01:04:43,070 --> 01:04:45,750 It is not a pro-abortion or an anti-abortion issue. 1126 01:04:45,750 --> 01:04:47,950 The issue is the right to choose. 1127 01:04:47,990 --> 01:04:50,590 The church deliberately distract us from that, 1128 01:04:50,630 --> 01:04:53,790 by making it into an either anti or for, 1129 01:04:53,790 --> 01:04:55,630 - you know what I mean? - But it's not that. 1130 01:04:55,630 --> 01:04:57,590 It's the right to choose your own destiny. 1131 01:04:57,590 --> 01:04:59,270 And it's none of anybody else's business, 1132 01:04:59,270 --> 01:05:02,310 not your mother or your father or anybody else. 1133 01:05:02,310 --> 01:05:03,430 Or your priest. 1134 01:05:06,310 --> 01:05:08,550 I never felt that Sinéad would cave 1135 01:05:08,590 --> 01:05:11,990 to any pressure. Ever. 1136 01:05:11,990 --> 01:05:17,430 Then she just seemed to become really controversial about everything. 1137 01:05:17,430 --> 01:05:19,310 Two weeks before the Grammys, 1138 01:05:19,310 --> 01:05:21,670 O'Connor threw down the gauntlet to her peers 1139 01:05:21,670 --> 01:05:24,030 announcing she would not attend the ceremonies 1140 01:05:24,030 --> 01:05:26,470 because the music industry was driven by greed 1141 01:05:26,470 --> 01:05:28,230 and artists were not speaking out 1142 01:05:28,230 --> 01:05:30,310 against the war in the Gulf. 1143 01:05:30,350 --> 01:05:32,870 It is the creative community that are driven by greed. 1144 01:05:32,910 --> 01:05:34,670 That's why none of them are saying anything 1145 01:05:34,670 --> 01:05:36,030 because they're afraid their careers 1146 01:05:36,030 --> 01:05:37,630 are going to be in jeopardy. 1147 01:05:37,670 --> 01:05:40,390 It's why nobody has said anything about the war. 1148 01:05:40,430 --> 01:05:42,710 When Sinéad refused to perform at the Grammys, 1149 01:05:42,710 --> 01:05:44,990 I was under a lot of pressure to change her mind. 1150 01:05:45,030 --> 01:05:47,750 As if that were even possible. 1151 01:05:47,750 --> 01:05:50,390 It wasn't like threatening-threatening, 1152 01:05:50,430 --> 01:05:54,710 but I felt that my career could certainly be in jeopardy, 1153 01:05:54,750 --> 01:05:56,310 and Sinéad's as well. 1154 01:05:56,350 --> 01:05:58,190 These were powerful people in the industry. 1155 01:06:01,510 --> 01:06:04,430 I didn't think that the powers that be were ready for her. 1156 01:06:05,990 --> 01:06:08,070 Where she's from, 1157 01:06:08,070 --> 01:06:12,590 artists had always stepped forward and said things, 1158 01:06:12,630 --> 01:06:15,350 but maybe in different genres, 1159 01:06:15,390 --> 01:06:18,830 and not so much as a pop superstar. 1160 01:06:18,830 --> 01:06:21,950 And Sinéad O'Connor, well, she was becoming a pop superstar. 1161 01:06:28,030 --> 01:06:30,910 Okay, so this is my favourite place in the universe, 1162 01:06:30,910 --> 01:06:32,830 which is St. Mark's place. 1163 01:06:32,870 --> 01:06:34,950 All the Rastas live there, 1164 01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:36,630 and all the Irish people live here, which is why I like it, 1165 01:06:36,630 --> 01:06:37,910 because Rastas and Irish people should live together, 1166 01:06:37,910 --> 01:06:39,910 since they're both the same. 1167 01:06:39,910 --> 01:06:41,470 And this is Siné. 1168 01:06:44,710 --> 01:06:47,270 The object of my game coming into the music business was 1169 01:06:47,270 --> 01:06:50,870 I really saw it as something like a bit of a chess game. 1170 01:06:50,870 --> 01:06:52,950 Could I get from one side of the board to the other 1171 01:06:52,950 --> 01:06:55,310 and still be myself and still be true to my reasons 1172 01:06:55,310 --> 01:06:57,230 for being in the music business? 1173 01:06:57,270 --> 01:06:59,350 And also, I suppose, spiritually true to myself, 1174 01:06:59,390 --> 01:07:01,350 do you know what I mean? 1175 01:07:01,390 --> 01:07:02,790 The music business can be a bit of a vampiric arena. 1176 01:07:02,790 --> 01:07:04,310 That's Charlie. 1177 01:07:04,310 --> 01:07:06,110 The first one's Charlie, and that's Charlton. 1178 01:07:06,110 --> 01:07:08,230 - Say hello to Jake. - Hi, Jake. 1179 01:07:08,270 --> 01:07:09,750 Gary. 1180 01:07:09,790 --> 01:07:11,030 - Yes? - Say hello to Jake. 1181 01:07:11,070 --> 01:07:12,350 - Him Jake. - That's Gary. 1182 01:07:12,390 --> 01:07:13,390 Maybe we'll get to see you, Jake. 1183 01:07:13,430 --> 01:07:14,590 He's really mad. 1184 01:07:14,590 --> 01:07:17,190 Hi, Jake, how're you doing? 1185 01:07:17,190 --> 01:07:20,910 - Say hello to Jake. - Jake. How are you? 1186 01:07:20,910 --> 01:07:22,670 You can go around trying to please everyone 1187 01:07:22,710 --> 01:07:24,990 as if you're in a popularity contest, 1188 01:07:24,990 --> 01:07:27,270 and yeah, that might get you lots and lots of money, 1189 01:07:27,270 --> 01:07:29,590 but that's not necessarily going to be keeping the contract 1190 01:07:29,590 --> 01:07:30,790 that you made with yourself. 1191 01:07:38,030 --> 01:07:39,470 That was the last one, wasn't it? 1192 01:07:39,470 --> 01:07:41,030 That was the very last one. 1193 01:07:41,030 --> 01:07:43,270 Okay, can we go on from a bit before? 1194 01:07:43,310 --> 01:07:46,030 - Yes. - - I didn't want to fall into that trap then 1195 01:07:46,070 --> 01:07:48,430 of you know, the follow up album to the number one, single. 1196 01:07:48,430 --> 01:07:50,470 And so I was kind of buying myself some time really, 1197 01:07:50,470 --> 01:07:52,270 creatively speaking. 1198 01:07:52,270 --> 01:07:53,910 Because you've had that hit record, 1199 01:07:53,950 --> 01:07:55,750 all of a sudden you could go in there 1200 01:07:55,750 --> 01:07:57,270 and tell them you want to make a record of farts, 1201 01:07:57,270 --> 01:07:58,270 and they'll say, "Yeah, sure. Okay." 1202 01:08:03,510 --> 01:08:06,190 Let's listen back and make sure we love this arrangement. 1203 01:08:06,190 --> 01:08:09,510 - Okay? - - I think there's a huge pressure from labels 1204 01:08:09,510 --> 01:08:12,270 when an artist has a worldwide number one. 1205 01:08:12,270 --> 01:08:15,270 And I think with the, "Am I Not Your Girl" album, 1206 01:08:15,310 --> 01:08:18,830 this was a great antidote, really to what happened. 1207 01:08:18,870 --> 01:08:23,710 And it had the most amazing team of arrangers, musicians, 1208 01:08:23,710 --> 01:08:26,910 and of course, legendary Phil Ramone producing. 1209 01:08:26,910 --> 01:08:29,910 It was just such a joy that record. 1210 01:08:44,830 --> 01:08:48,310 We used to go out walking 1211 01:08:48,310 --> 01:08:51,750 Hand in hand 1212 01:08:51,750 --> 01:08:55,430 You told me all The big things 1213 01:08:55,470 --> 01:08:58,510 You had planned... 1214 01:08:58,510 --> 01:09:00,110 I did love the record, and I loved making it. 1215 01:09:00,150 --> 01:09:02,270 It was just astonishing being in a room 1216 01:09:02,270 --> 01:09:03,990 with that band every day. It was just like, "Oh, my God." 1217 01:09:03,990 --> 01:09:05,550 I was quite intimidated actually. 1218 01:09:05,550 --> 01:09:07,470 I was quite scared to open my mouth 1219 01:09:07,470 --> 01:09:09,310 because the band were just so ridiculously brilliant 1220 01:09:09,350 --> 01:09:12,670 and I couldn't see myself as being anyway good. 1221 01:09:12,670 --> 01:09:16,150 Am I not your girl? 1222 01:09:16,190 --> 01:09:19,670 Am I not your girl? 1223 01:09:19,670 --> 01:09:22,510 Am I not your girl? 1224 01:09:22,510 --> 01:09:24,830 Am I not. 1225 01:09:30,670 --> 01:09:33,110 There were things going on in my own life. 1226 01:09:33,110 --> 01:09:34,910 Things I was discovering that my mother had done 1227 01:09:34,910 --> 01:09:37,030 that I didn't know about. 1228 01:09:37,030 --> 01:09:40,990 And then I had come across an article about families 1229 01:09:40,990 --> 01:09:43,310 who had been trying to lodge complaints 1230 01:09:43,310 --> 01:09:45,710 against the church for sexual abuse 1231 01:09:45,710 --> 01:09:47,950 and were being silenced. 1232 01:09:50,510 --> 01:09:54,630 Basically fucking everything I had been raised to believe was a lie. 1233 01:09:54,630 --> 01:09:57,470 You know, that everything about the Catholic church was a lie. 1234 01:09:59,310 --> 01:10:04,670 Ave, ave, ave Maria 1235 01:10:04,710 --> 01:10:07,350 At the end of the line of bishops, walked the Pope. 1236 01:10:07,350 --> 01:10:10,390 And as the crowd noticed him, they broke into cheering and clapping. 1237 01:10:13,710 --> 01:10:16,550 I took two things out of my mother's house. 1238 01:10:16,550 --> 01:10:18,070 One was her cookery book, 1239 01:10:18,110 --> 01:10:20,150 and the next was a picture of the Pope, 1240 01:10:20,190 --> 01:10:22,790 which had been on her bedroom wall. 1241 01:10:22,830 --> 01:10:25,110 Young people of Ireland, 1242 01:10:26,390 --> 01:10:27,710 I love you. 1243 01:10:31,990 --> 01:10:34,350 He didn't fucking love me. 1244 01:10:34,350 --> 01:10:36,670 And I could fuckin' cry right now saying it. 1245 01:10:37,950 --> 01:10:39,790 You know, it was such a lie. 1246 01:10:39,790 --> 01:10:41,870 Now we know what a lie that was. 1247 01:10:41,870 --> 01:10:43,950 He was so involved in covering up 1248 01:10:43,950 --> 01:10:46,750 what happened to everybody. 1249 01:10:46,790 --> 01:10:48,830 And I had a right to fight that evil 1250 01:10:48,870 --> 01:10:50,990 because I loved the church. 1251 01:10:50,990 --> 01:10:52,710 I'm going to go on Saturday Night Live 1252 01:10:52,750 --> 01:10:54,350 and I've got fuck all to lose 1253 01:10:54,350 --> 01:10:55,830 because no one could do jack shit to me 1254 01:10:55,870 --> 01:10:57,430 that hasn't been done already. 1255 01:11:10,310 --> 01:11:12,150 I had booked her on Saturday Night Live. 1256 01:11:12,150 --> 01:11:14,110 Now this was for her third record, 1257 01:11:14,150 --> 01:11:17,950 which was, "Am I Not Your Girl." 1258 01:11:17,950 --> 01:11:20,910 It's a great booking, the record was just coming out, 1259 01:11:20,950 --> 01:11:23,790 and this would really help it. 1260 01:11:23,790 --> 01:11:25,910 Ladies and gentlemen, Sinéad O'Connor. 1261 01:11:35,390 --> 01:11:39,150 Until the philosophy 1262 01:11:39,150 --> 01:11:42,510 Which holds one Race superior 1263 01:11:42,510 --> 01:11:46,270 And another 1264 01:11:46,270 --> 01:11:49,150 Inferior 1265 01:11:49,150 --> 01:11:51,910 Is finally 1266 01:11:51,910 --> 01:11:54,910 And permanently 1267 01:11:54,910 --> 01:11:56,950 Discredited... 1268 01:11:56,950 --> 01:11:58,990 The song is also very important. 1269 01:11:58,990 --> 01:12:01,030 You know, it's a Rastafari song. 1270 01:12:04,030 --> 01:12:05,990 It's a speech that the Emperor Haile Selassie 1271 01:12:06,030 --> 01:12:08,710 had made at the United Nations, and then Bob Marley 1272 01:12:08,750 --> 01:12:10,950 turned it into a song. 1273 01:12:10,950 --> 01:12:14,870 First class and second class Citizens of any nation 1274 01:12:14,870 --> 01:12:17,910 Until the colour Of a man's skin 1275 01:12:17,910 --> 01:12:20,830 Is of no more significance 1276 01:12:20,870 --> 01:12:22,790 Than the colour of his eyes 1277 01:12:22,830 --> 01:12:24,750 I've got to say war... 1278 01:12:24,750 --> 01:12:26,270 ...war 1279 01:12:26,270 --> 01:12:29,710 War in the east 1280 01:12:29,710 --> 01:12:32,950 War in the west 1281 01:12:32,950 --> 01:12:36,070 War up north 1282 01:12:36,070 --> 01:12:39,230 War down south 1283 01:12:39,230 --> 01:12:42,110 There's war 1284 01:12:42,150 --> 01:12:45,670 And rumours of war 1285 01:12:45,670 --> 01:12:48,150 Until that day 1286 01:12:48,150 --> 01:12:53,950 There is no continent Which will know peace 1287 01:12:53,990 --> 01:12:59,470 Children, children 1288 01:12:59,470 --> 01:13:01,470 Fight 1289 01:13:01,510 --> 01:13:04,870 We find it necessary 1290 01:13:04,870 --> 01:13:08,150 We know we will win 1291 01:13:08,190 --> 01:13:11,070 We have confidence 1292 01:13:11,070 --> 01:13:13,750 In the victory 1293 01:13:13,750 --> 01:13:16,670 Of good 1294 01:13:16,670 --> 01:13:21,830 Over evil 1295 01:13:25,110 --> 01:13:26,710 Fight the real enemy. 1296 01:13:33,710 --> 01:13:36,750 Nobody knows what to do. 1297 01:13:36,750 --> 01:13:39,950 My blood has run cold. 1298 01:13:39,990 --> 01:13:42,510 She blows a candle out, she goes off stage, 1299 01:13:42,510 --> 01:13:45,110 she goes into her dressing room and she's so happy. 1300 01:13:45,110 --> 01:13:47,230 You know, she had pulled this off. 1301 01:13:47,270 --> 01:13:50,310 And I had gone into the dressing room after her, 1302 01:13:50,350 --> 01:13:53,310 and I said, "You know, I can't get you out of this." 1303 01:13:53,350 --> 01:13:55,750 - And she said, "You know what? - I don't want you to." 1304 01:13:58,550 --> 01:14:00,390 What effect do you think 1305 01:14:00,390 --> 01:14:01,710 this is gonna have on your career, Sinéad? 1306 01:14:02,910 --> 01:14:05,070 I don't know. 1307 01:14:05,070 --> 01:14:07,030 Do you care? 1308 01:14:07,030 --> 01:14:10,670 Um, well, it depends on what you mean by... 1309 01:14:10,670 --> 01:14:13,230 - I don't know. - You'd have to say what you meant. 1310 01:14:13,270 --> 01:14:16,070 Do you think what you have done 1311 01:14:16,070 --> 01:14:18,470 will make you more popular with your fans? 1312 01:14:18,470 --> 01:14:20,230 Less popular with your fans? 1313 01:14:20,230 --> 01:14:24,470 Or will it just be something that Sinéad O'Connor did 1314 01:14:24,470 --> 01:14:25,710 in a rash moment? 1315 01:14:27,150 --> 01:14:29,470 - Well, I can't really say. - I don't know. 1316 01:14:29,470 --> 01:14:32,910 Are you prepared to accept the consequences, 1317 01:14:32,950 --> 01:14:36,030 which you said don't seem to be negative, right? 1318 01:14:36,030 --> 01:14:37,510 Of what you're doing? 1319 01:14:37,510 --> 01:14:38,950 What consequences? 1320 01:14:38,950 --> 01:14:41,710 Well, look at the alternative. 1321 01:14:41,750 --> 01:14:44,550 Sinéad O'Connor is no stranger to controversy. 1322 01:14:44,550 --> 01:14:46,950 A master of the shock tactics. 1323 01:14:46,950 --> 01:14:49,230 But this time some are questioning whether she went too far. 1324 01:14:49,230 --> 01:14:50,750 No response yet from the Pope, 1325 01:14:50,750 --> 01:14:52,750 but church spokesmen say that he will no doubt 1326 01:14:52,750 --> 01:14:55,230 forgive Sinéad O'Connor for her bout of Vatican bashing 1327 01:14:55,230 --> 01:14:57,270 on NBC's Saturday Night Live. 1328 01:14:57,270 --> 01:14:58,990 The controversy for singer Sinéad O'Connor 1329 01:14:58,990 --> 01:15:01,070 as she strikes a sour note with Catholics. 1330 01:15:01,070 --> 01:15:03,070 NBC has been at pains to stress 1331 01:15:03,070 --> 01:15:05,470 it doesn't condone what she did. 1332 01:15:05,510 --> 01:15:07,470 The network says O'Connor's tirade caught them off guard. 1333 01:15:07,510 --> 01:15:09,710 NBC logged a thousand complaint calls... 1334 01:15:09,710 --> 01:15:12,630 Her actions Saturday night were spontaneous, 1335 01:15:12,670 --> 01:15:14,990 certainly unauthorized by NBC, 1336 01:15:15,030 --> 01:15:17,910 and NBC was offended by what she did. 1337 01:15:17,950 --> 01:15:20,670 The Catholic league for religious and civil rights 1338 01:15:20,670 --> 01:15:23,950 is pressuring record stores to stop selling recordings 1339 01:15:23,950 --> 01:15:26,230 by O'Connor and her record company. 1340 01:15:26,270 --> 01:15:29,150 During the lunch hour, they passed out leaflets, 1341 01:15:29,150 --> 01:15:31,630 urging customers to join their boycott. 1342 01:15:31,630 --> 01:15:33,950 Some didn't need any encouragement. 1343 01:15:33,950 --> 01:15:35,950 I thought it was repulsive. 1344 01:15:35,950 --> 01:15:39,070 Anyone that sends us in their tapes, 1345 01:15:39,070 --> 01:15:40,830 we're going to chop up these tapes. 1346 01:15:40,870 --> 01:15:42,910 Actually, we were just going to send them to her. 1347 01:15:42,950 --> 01:15:45,230 Someone said, don't send the tapes new. 1348 01:15:45,270 --> 01:15:48,030 Break them up, 'cause she'll sell them again. 1349 01:15:48,030 --> 01:15:49,510 So we're going to break them up 1350 01:15:49,510 --> 01:15:51,110 and put them in a trunk, 1351 01:15:51,110 --> 01:15:52,750 and have someone deliver them to her 1352 01:15:52,750 --> 01:15:54,190 in Ireland or wherever she may be. 1353 01:15:57,630 --> 01:16:00,030 I would've grabbed her by her eyebrows. 1354 01:16:01,790 --> 01:16:04,270 Sinéad O'Connor..., you know and so on. 1355 01:16:04,310 --> 01:16:06,110 Or you just don't like that she tore up a picture of the Pope. 1356 01:16:06,110 --> 01:16:08,310 Oh, no, Sinéad O'Connor is completely a robot brain. 1357 01:16:08,310 --> 01:16:10,390 - She has messages... - She's like Victorian, 1358 01:16:10,390 --> 01:16:13,390 she has messages where she slaps onto art like labels. 1359 01:16:13,430 --> 01:16:14,990 But I'll tell you one thing, she was very lucky 1360 01:16:15,030 --> 01:16:17,190 it wasn't my show. 1361 01:16:17,190 --> 01:16:20,430 'Cause if it was my show, I would've gave her such a smack. 1362 01:16:24,710 --> 01:16:26,470 Sinéad O'Conner, who's big theme is child abuse... 1363 01:16:26,510 --> 01:16:28,310 - All right? - It all comes from child abuse. 1364 01:16:28,310 --> 01:16:30,310 In the case of Sinéad O'Conner, child abuse was justified. 1365 01:16:35,030 --> 01:16:37,630 I got a little bit worried, 1366 01:16:37,630 --> 01:16:40,630 you know when things were going really badly in the press for her. 1367 01:16:40,670 --> 01:16:43,950 It was a terrible time for us. 1368 01:16:43,950 --> 01:16:45,750 And just created this hatred. 1369 01:16:45,750 --> 01:16:48,070 It was unbelievable. 1370 01:16:48,110 --> 01:16:51,430 I had fan letters with death threats to myself, 1371 01:16:51,470 --> 01:16:53,150 death threats to Sinéad, 1372 01:16:53,150 --> 01:16:55,710 and one day I took in a sack load of letters 1373 01:16:55,710 --> 01:16:57,790 that were directly threatening either to her 1374 01:16:57,830 --> 01:17:00,790 or to me, or any of our team. 1375 01:17:00,790 --> 01:17:03,990 I was watching it with some friends as it happened. 1376 01:17:04,030 --> 01:17:07,510 And we were all applauding and cheering and were like, 1377 01:17:07,510 --> 01:17:09,590 "Feminist performance art, on TV. 1378 01:17:09,590 --> 01:17:12,630 When does that ever happen?" 1379 01:17:12,630 --> 01:17:15,830 I can't sit here and tell you that I was all like, 1380 01:17:15,870 --> 01:17:17,590 - "- Oh, no, Sinéad O'Connor is an icon. - She's ahead of her time." 1381 01:17:17,590 --> 01:17:20,070 I don't think I was saying that then. 1382 01:17:20,110 --> 01:17:22,990 I think I probably was joining in, "Oh, God, what's she doing now?" 1383 01:17:22,990 --> 01:17:25,070 There was this idea that she was a bit of a joke. 1384 01:17:26,390 --> 01:17:28,430 Fight the real enemy. 1385 01:17:28,430 --> 01:17:30,990 When she does a concert in New York city, 1386 01:17:30,990 --> 01:17:33,190 if she has the guts to ever do a concert 1387 01:17:33,190 --> 01:17:34,870 in New York City again, 1388 01:17:34,870 --> 01:17:36,390 after one of her songs, 1389 01:17:36,390 --> 01:17:38,510 I'm going to jump up on stage 1390 01:17:38,550 --> 01:17:40,830 and tear up a photo of Uncle Fester. 1391 01:17:50,230 --> 01:17:52,550 Do you enjoy shocking people? 1392 01:17:52,550 --> 01:17:54,710 No, but I enjoy a good debate. 1393 01:17:54,710 --> 01:17:56,910 Did you realize the consequences at the time? 1394 01:17:56,910 --> 01:18:02,270 I don't think it's a good idea to talk about it here, tonight. 1395 01:18:02,270 --> 01:18:04,670 So you don't want to talk about it at all. 1396 01:18:04,710 --> 01:18:06,350 Some other time, I'll talk to you about it. 1397 01:18:06,390 --> 01:18:07,990 But obviously you don't have any regrets. 1398 01:18:07,990 --> 01:18:09,310 No, absolutely not. 1399 01:18:11,390 --> 01:18:14,390 I'm real proud... 1400 01:18:14,390 --> 01:18:16,910 to introduce this next artist 1401 01:18:16,910 --> 01:18:21,070 whose name's become synonymous with courage, 1402 01:18:21,110 --> 01:18:23,470 and integrity. 1403 01:18:23,470 --> 01:18:26,070 Ladies and gentleman, Sinéad O'Connor. 1404 01:18:47,110 --> 01:18:48,190 Thank you. 1405 01:18:52,550 --> 01:18:55,110 I'm on stage and the audience start making this 1406 01:18:55,110 --> 01:18:56,670 mad noise where half of them are booing 1407 01:18:56,710 --> 01:18:58,230 and half of them are cheering. 1408 01:18:58,270 --> 01:19:00,310 And it's the fucking weirdest noise 1409 01:19:00,350 --> 01:19:01,990 - I've ever heard in my life. - And it makes me want to puke. 1410 01:19:18,070 --> 01:19:20,470 My song that I was supposed to sing 1411 01:19:20,470 --> 01:19:23,270 at Madison Square Garden was "I Believe in You." 1412 01:19:23,270 --> 01:19:26,230 This song was to be sung in a whisper, 1413 01:19:26,230 --> 01:19:27,670 and I knew that I couldn't 1414 01:19:27,670 --> 01:19:29,670 because I wouldn't be heard, 1415 01:19:29,670 --> 01:19:31,350 I would have been drowned out and I couldn't have that. 1416 01:19:33,790 --> 01:19:36,630 "Are you going to stand by me" 1417 01:19:36,630 --> 01:19:38,790 was almost what I felt God was saying to me. 1418 01:19:38,790 --> 01:19:40,790 "Are you going to fucking stand by me, 1419 01:19:40,790 --> 01:19:42,270 or are you going to pussy out here 1420 01:19:42,270 --> 01:19:43,430 and walk off stage." 1421 01:19:48,990 --> 01:19:51,590 Okay, turn this up. 1422 01:19:51,630 --> 01:19:54,710 Until the philosophy 1423 01:19:54,710 --> 01:19:57,390 Which holds one Race superior 1424 01:19:57,430 --> 01:20:01,630 And another inferior 1425 01:20:01,670 --> 01:20:03,670 Is finally 1426 01:20:03,670 --> 01:20:08,150 And permanently discredited 1427 01:20:08,150 --> 01:20:10,190 And abandoned 1428 01:20:10,230 --> 01:20:14,070 Everywhere is war 1429 01:20:14,070 --> 01:20:17,230 Until there's no longer 1430 01:20:17,230 --> 01:20:20,950 First class or Second class citizens 1431 01:20:20,950 --> 01:20:23,150 Of any nation 1432 01:20:23,150 --> 01:20:26,270 Until the colour Of a man's skin 1433 01:20:26,270 --> 01:20:29,710 Is of no more significance 1434 01:20:29,750 --> 01:20:31,710 Than the colour of his eyes 1435 01:20:31,710 --> 01:20:34,230 I've got to say war 1436 01:20:34,270 --> 01:20:38,030 Until, the basic Human rights 1437 01:20:38,070 --> 01:20:40,870 Are equally Guaranteed to all 1438 01:20:40,910 --> 01:20:43,310 Without regard to race 1439 01:20:43,350 --> 01:20:45,550 I say war 1440 01:20:45,590 --> 01:20:47,350 And until 1441 01:20:47,350 --> 01:20:50,470 The ignoble And unhappy regime 1442 01:20:50,470 --> 01:20:52,830 Which holds all Of us through 1443 01:20:52,870 --> 01:20:55,870 Child abuse, yeah 1444 01:20:55,870 --> 01:20:58,430 Child abuse, yeah 1445 01:20:58,430 --> 01:21:01,710 Subhuman bondage 1446 01:21:01,710 --> 01:21:03,790 Has been toppled 1447 01:21:03,830 --> 01:21:06,270 Utterly destroyed 1448 01:21:06,270 --> 01:21:09,710 Everywhere is war 1449 01:21:17,870 --> 01:21:20,790 Everything kind of coalesced into that moment. 1450 01:21:20,830 --> 01:21:22,430 Someone who grew up in a household 1451 01:21:22,470 --> 01:21:24,630 of abuse and rejection, 1452 01:21:24,630 --> 01:21:26,630 then being rejected, 1453 01:21:26,670 --> 01:21:29,510 by what probably felt like the whole entire world, 1454 01:21:29,510 --> 01:21:33,870 re-traumatizing her in front of the world, 1455 01:21:33,870 --> 01:21:36,550 it made me feel demoralized, as a woman. 1456 01:21:38,190 --> 01:21:39,870 People that would boo Sinéad O'Connor, 1457 01:21:39,910 --> 01:21:43,590 what were they doing at a Bob Dylan concert? 1458 01:21:43,590 --> 01:21:45,910 She's taken quite a beating, in the world, 1459 01:21:45,910 --> 01:21:48,110 because, the world does not take kindly, 1460 01:21:48,110 --> 01:21:51,350 to having its program interrupted. 1461 01:21:51,350 --> 01:21:53,950 The smooth flow of entertainment must not be interrupted. 1462 01:21:59,150 --> 01:22:00,550 "My name is Sinéad O'Connor, 1463 01:22:00,550 --> 01:22:02,110 and I'm learning to love myself. 1464 01:22:03,350 --> 01:22:04,830 I am deserving, 1465 01:22:04,870 --> 01:22:07,110 I deserve to be treated with respect, 1466 01:22:07,110 --> 01:22:09,310 I deserve not to be treated like dirt, 1467 01:22:09,310 --> 01:22:10,630 I deserve to be listened to. 1468 01:22:10,630 --> 01:22:12,430 My name is Sinéad O'Connor, 1469 01:22:12,430 --> 01:22:15,430 I am a woman, I have something to offer, 1470 01:22:15,470 --> 01:22:17,110 I am and have always been carrying a lot of grief, 1471 01:22:17,150 --> 01:22:19,430 from my lost childhood, 1472 01:22:19,430 --> 01:22:21,270 and for the effects of its horror and violence on my life. 1473 01:22:21,270 --> 01:22:23,230 I find it hard to be myself, 1474 01:22:23,230 --> 01:22:25,110 to show my feelings. 1475 01:22:25,150 --> 01:22:27,150 To get to the joy, 1476 01:22:27,150 --> 01:22:28,870 I need to release the pain, which is blocking me. 1477 01:22:28,870 --> 01:22:32,230 If I do not do this, I will not survive. 1478 01:22:32,230 --> 01:22:34,670 I was angry before, because I was frightened, 1479 01:22:34,710 --> 01:22:37,190 but I know that if you could really listen, 1480 01:22:37,190 --> 01:22:39,190 you'd see that we do not know what we are doing, 1481 01:22:39,190 --> 01:22:41,870 when we mock the expression of human feeling. 1482 01:22:41,870 --> 01:22:44,710 When we scoff at the sound of our children's keening, 1483 01:22:44,750 --> 01:22:46,990 there's a mirror into which we are not looking. 1484 01:22:51,110 --> 01:22:52,710 There's no way I'm going to shut my mouth, 1485 01:22:52,710 --> 01:22:54,310 I am a battered child, 1486 01:22:54,310 --> 01:22:56,550 and the whole bloody world is gonna know about it, 1487 01:22:56,550 --> 01:22:58,390 the same as they are gonna know about every other battered child. 1488 01:22:58,390 --> 01:23:00,390 They are not going to be able to shut us up, 1489 01:23:00,430 --> 01:23:02,470 just because they don't want to hear about it. 1490 01:23:05,470 --> 01:23:08,110 We all have, mental health issues, 1491 01:23:08,110 --> 01:23:10,070 you know, on one level, 1492 01:23:10,110 --> 01:23:12,030 and it's very important for us to recognize that, 1493 01:23:12,030 --> 01:23:14,270 and I think that's something that Sinéad O'Connor 1494 01:23:14,270 --> 01:23:15,950 did way before anybody else. 1495 01:23:17,830 --> 01:23:20,070 I was always being crazied by the media, 1496 01:23:20,110 --> 01:23:22,270 made out to be crazy. 1497 01:23:22,270 --> 01:23:25,070 I don't blame anybody, for thinking I was crazy, 1498 01:23:25,070 --> 01:23:26,910 or for hating me for it, or whatever, 1499 01:23:26,910 --> 01:23:28,710 'cause they didn't know, I mean, it was a crazy idea, 1500 01:23:28,710 --> 01:23:30,230 I mean, this bitch is saying that, 1501 01:23:30,230 --> 01:23:31,350 priests are raping children, 1502 01:23:31,350 --> 01:23:32,950 I mean, Jesus Christ, 1503 01:23:32,950 --> 01:23:34,510 of course it seemed crazy to them. 1504 01:23:36,550 --> 01:23:39,030 Sinéad was put into isolation. 1505 01:23:39,070 --> 01:23:40,990 She, was still making great music, 1506 01:23:41,030 --> 01:23:42,790 still making great records, 1507 01:23:42,790 --> 01:23:45,430 but we didn't hear them and we didn't see them. 1508 01:23:45,470 --> 01:23:48,230 In those days, if the press weren't talking about you, 1509 01:23:48,270 --> 01:23:50,910 if you weren't on the radio, if you weren't on TV screens, 1510 01:23:50,910 --> 01:23:53,030 you might as well have not existed. 1511 01:23:53,070 --> 01:23:54,670 Which is what happened with Sinéad, 1512 01:23:54,670 --> 01:23:56,070 she just disappears. 1513 01:23:58,990 --> 01:24:01,390 I have about a ten-year period 1514 01:24:01,390 --> 01:24:03,150 I don't remember much, 1515 01:24:03,190 --> 01:24:04,150 because it suddenly became a free for all 1516 01:24:04,190 --> 01:24:06,230 for everybody around me, 1517 01:24:06,230 --> 01:24:09,710 personally and publicly to treat me like shit basically. 1518 01:24:12,470 --> 01:24:14,350 They didn't like what they saw on the mirror, 1519 01:24:14,350 --> 01:24:15,910 I understand that now, 1520 01:24:15,950 --> 01:24:17,710 but when I was younger, I was just hurt. 1521 01:24:25,510 --> 01:24:28,270 The willingness to tell her story, 1522 01:24:28,270 --> 01:24:31,310 to share her personal pain, her struggles, 1523 01:24:31,350 --> 01:24:34,630 to share them, with Ireland and with the world, 1524 01:24:34,630 --> 01:24:37,990 I think has given people, the courage to do the same. 1525 01:24:42,550 --> 01:24:44,710 On behalf of this state, 1526 01:24:44,710 --> 01:24:47,590 the government and our citizens, 1527 01:24:47,630 --> 01:24:51,510 deeply regret, and apologize unreservedly, 1528 01:24:51,510 --> 01:24:53,110 to all those women, 1529 01:24:53,110 --> 01:24:55,110 for the hurt that was done to them, 1530 01:24:55,110 --> 01:24:57,270 for the, any stigma they have suffered, 1531 01:24:57,270 --> 01:24:59,670 as a result of the time they spent, 1532 01:24:59,670 --> 01:25:01,230 in the Magdalene Laundries. 1533 01:25:03,270 --> 01:25:06,270 Today, we live in a very different country, 1534 01:25:06,310 --> 01:25:08,270 with a very different consciousness, 1535 01:25:08,310 --> 01:25:09,910 and a very different awareness. 1536 01:25:14,150 --> 01:25:16,710 An Ireland where we have more compassion, 1537 01:25:16,710 --> 01:25:21,230 more empathy, more insight, more heart. 1538 01:25:21,230 --> 01:25:26,350 We do, because at last, we are learning those terrible lessons. 1539 01:25:26,350 --> 01:25:29,710 We do, because at last we're giving up our secrets. 1540 01:25:34,750 --> 01:25:37,310 In Ireland, it's being called a quiet revolution, 1541 01:25:37,310 --> 01:25:38,910 and a victory for women. 1542 01:25:38,910 --> 01:25:41,230 The once conservative nation, voted yes 1543 01:25:41,270 --> 01:25:44,150 to repeal a constitutional ban on abortion. 1544 01:25:52,430 --> 01:25:53,910 Yeah, I'm proud to be Irish today. 1545 01:25:53,910 --> 01:25:55,990 I think Ireland's coming so far, 1546 01:25:55,990 --> 01:25:58,110 in the last ten years, and I think it's really showing 1547 01:25:58,110 --> 01:25:59,230 that we're not so influenced 1548 01:25:59,230 --> 01:26:01,030 by the church as much anymore. 1549 01:26:04,190 --> 01:26:05,990 Wherever there's that righteous anger 1550 01:26:06,030 --> 01:26:08,150 of a woman now, who is making a difference, 1551 01:26:08,190 --> 01:26:10,190 who's changing things, 1552 01:26:10,230 --> 01:26:12,310 who's standing up and being courageous. 1553 01:26:12,310 --> 01:26:15,790 That is where the little sparks of Sinéad are. 1554 01:26:22,310 --> 01:26:25,470 We are seeing the rights that people fought for being pulled back, 1555 01:26:25,510 --> 01:26:27,350 being diminished, 1556 01:26:27,350 --> 01:26:29,790 and... to look at the power of speaking out, 1557 01:26:29,790 --> 01:26:32,950 and she is the absolute epitome of what that power is. 1558 01:26:35,030 --> 01:26:37,510 We need to keep showing how effective it is, 1559 01:26:37,510 --> 01:26:39,430 and how important it is. 1560 01:26:46,270 --> 01:26:48,430 Women's bodies are under attack! 1561 01:26:48,430 --> 01:26:50,190 - What do we do? - Stand up, fight back! 1562 01:26:58,590 --> 01:27:00,470 There's a lot of artists that came afterward, 1563 01:27:00,470 --> 01:27:03,230 that were able to say and speak their mind, 1564 01:27:03,230 --> 01:27:04,510 and spill their soul. 1565 01:27:06,590 --> 01:27:09,590 She broke the ice for a whole decade 1566 01:27:09,630 --> 01:27:11,430 or two decades of artists after her. 1567 01:27:29,710 --> 01:27:31,590 A government inquiry last year 1568 01:27:31,590 --> 01:27:32,790 found some Irish bishops 1569 01:27:32,830 --> 01:27:34,630 put their church's reputation 1570 01:27:34,670 --> 01:27:36,790 before the interests of their flock, 1571 01:27:36,790 --> 01:27:40,510 actively covering up clerical child abuse for 30 years. 1572 01:27:40,550 --> 01:27:42,790 But the scandals go far beyond Ireland, 1573 01:27:42,830 --> 01:27:44,830 and touch the Vatican directly. 1574 01:27:44,870 --> 01:27:47,470 Last week, it was alleged that Pope Benedict, 1575 01:27:47,510 --> 01:27:49,310 then known as Cardinal Ratzinger, 1576 01:27:49,350 --> 01:27:51,510 had prevented the church trial, 1577 01:27:51,510 --> 01:27:54,670 of an American paedophile priest, in the 1990s. 1578 01:27:54,710 --> 01:27:58,110 The church in Ireland, must acknowledge before the Lord 1579 01:27:58,150 --> 01:28:01,590 and others, the serious sins committed 1580 01:28:01,630 --> 01:28:03,870 against defenceless children. 1581 01:28:09,790 --> 01:28:13,230 Sinéad O'Connor as an artist, forged her own path 1582 01:28:13,270 --> 01:28:16,310 in a world that just was not ready for her. 1583 01:28:16,310 --> 01:28:18,190 This young upstart, 1584 01:28:18,190 --> 01:28:20,550 with the most beautiful voice you can imagine, 1585 01:28:20,590 --> 01:28:26,350 showed up, and just rocked the shit out of the horse cart. 1586 01:28:26,390 --> 01:28:28,350 I don't want to see her as a martyr, 1587 01:28:28,390 --> 01:28:30,310 because she's a three-dimensional human being. 1588 01:28:30,310 --> 01:28:32,790 She makes mistakes, she's a weirdo, she's great, 1589 01:28:32,790 --> 01:28:35,550 she's a lot of different things. 1590 01:28:35,550 --> 01:28:37,350 She did not deserve what she got. 1591 01:28:42,390 --> 01:28:46,150 I regret that people treated me like shit, 1592 01:28:46,150 --> 01:28:50,390 and I regret that I was so wounded already 1593 01:28:50,430 --> 01:28:54,110 that that really, really killed me and hurt me. 1594 01:28:54,150 --> 01:28:56,230 You know? 1595 01:28:56,230 --> 01:28:58,470 They all thought that I should be made a mockery of 1596 01:28:58,470 --> 01:29:01,150 for throwing my career down the drain. 1597 01:29:01,150 --> 01:29:02,750 I never set out to be a pop star, 1598 01:29:02,790 --> 01:29:04,750 it didn't suit me being a pop star. 1599 01:29:04,750 --> 01:29:07,790 So I didn't throw away any fucking career that I wanted. 1600 01:29:07,790 --> 01:29:11,070 Didn't change my attitude. 1601 01:29:11,070 --> 01:29:12,990 I wasn't sorry, I didn't regret it, 1602 01:29:13,030 --> 01:29:16,750 it was the proudest thing I've ever done as an artist. 1603 01:29:16,790 --> 01:29:20,510 They broke my heart and they killed me, but I didn't die. 1604 01:29:22,590 --> 01:29:24,270 They tried to bury me, 1605 01:29:24,270 --> 01:29:25,710 they didn't realize I was a seed. 1606 01:29:28,870 --> 01:29:33,710 Thank you for hearing me 1607 01:29:35,710 --> 01:29:40,630 Thank you for hearing me 1608 01:29:42,670 --> 01:29:47,550 Thank you for hearing me 1609 01:29:49,510 --> 01:29:54,870 Thank you for hearing me 1610 01:30:00,630 --> 01:30:06,630 Thank you for loving me 1611 01:30:06,670 --> 01:30:11,550 Thank you for loving me 1612 01:30:12,910 --> 01:30:18,510 Thank you for loving me 1613 01:30:18,550 --> 01:30:23,750 Thank you for loving me 1614 01:30:28,110 --> 01:30:33,870 Which means forsaking me 1615 01:30:33,870 --> 01:30:39,710 Thank you for seeing me 1616 01:30:39,750 --> 01:30:45,750 Thank you for seeing me 1617 01:30:45,750 --> 01:30:51,350 Thank you for seeing me 1618 01:30:55,710 --> 01:31:01,430 And for not leaving me 1619 01:31:01,470 --> 01:31:06,550 And for not leaving me 1620 01:31:07,950 --> 01:31:13,910 And for not leaving me 1621 01:31:13,910 --> 01:31:19,150 And for not leaving me 1622 01:31:23,270 --> 01:31:29,110 Thank you For staying with me 1623 01:31:29,150 --> 01:31:35,550 Thank you For staying with me 1624 01:31:35,590 --> 01:31:40,910 Thank you For staying with me 1625 01:31:40,950 --> 01:31:46,670 Thank you For staying with me 1626 01:31:50,710 --> 01:31:56,470 Thanks for not hurting me 1627 01:31:56,470 --> 01:32:01,950 Thanks for not hurting me 1628 01:32:01,950 --> 01:32:07,910 Thanks for not hurting me 1629 01:32:07,910 --> 01:32:13,710 Thanks for not hurting me 1630 01:32:18,270 --> 01:32:24,190 You are gentle with me 1631 01:32:24,230 --> 01:32:29,070 You are gentle with me 1632 01:32:30,550 --> 01:32:36,590 You are gentle with me 1633 01:32:36,590 --> 01:32:42,070 You are gentle with me 1634 01:32:45,790 --> 01:32:51,590 Thanks for silence with me 1635 01:32:51,590 --> 01:32:56,750 Thanks for silence with me 1636 01:32:58,150 --> 01:33:04,030 Thanks for silence with me 1637 01:33:04,030 --> 01:33:09,350 Thanks for silence with me 1638 01:33:13,910 --> 01:33:20,070 Thank you for holding me 1639 01:33:20,070 --> 01:33:26,430 And saying I could be 1640 01:33:26,430 --> 01:33:32,270 Thank you For saying, "Baby" 1641 01:33:32,310 --> 01:33:37,150 Thank you for holding me 1642 01:33:41,670 --> 01:33:47,310 Thank you for helping me 1643 01:33:47,310 --> 01:33:53,110 Thank you for helping me 1644 01:33:53,150 --> 01:33:58,910 Thank you for helping me 1645 01:33:58,950 --> 01:34:02,710 Thank you 1646 01:34:02,710 --> 01:34:06,310 Thank you for helping me 1647 01:34:09,110 --> 01:34:15,230 Thank you For breaking my heart 1648 01:34:15,230 --> 01:34:20,990 Thank you For tearing me apart 1649 01:34:21,030 --> 01:34:24,390 Now I've a strong 1650 01:34:24,430 --> 01:34:27,430 Strong heart 1651 01:34:27,470 --> 01:34:30,590 Thank you 1652 01:34:30,630 --> 01:34:36,470 For breaking my heart 128639

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