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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:21,439 --> 00:00:24,775 ♪ Jiffy Pop, Jiffy Pop the magic treat ♪ 2 00:00:24,859 --> 00:00:26,610 The new Barbie pool party. 3 00:00:26,694 --> 00:00:28,070 Now with a Barbie sold separately. 4 00:00:28,154 --> 00:00:29,697 Coca-Cola... 5 00:00:29,780 --> 00:00:31,907 The personal computer revolutin 6 00:00:31,991 --> 00:00:33,409 that's sweeping the entire country. 7 00:00:37,371 --> 00:00:40,583 I am from Jefferson Township, New Jersey. 8 00:00:40,666 --> 00:00:44,670 It's my hometown where I've made the best friends 9 00:00:44,754 --> 00:00:46,422 that I've ever had in my life. 10 00:00:50,217 --> 00:00:52,261 1988, this terrible thing happened 11 00:00:52,344 --> 00:00:53,721 a mile from where I grew up 12 00:00:53,804 --> 00:00:56,098 to a kid that I played basketball with. 13 00:00:57,683 --> 00:01:00,936 There was this explosion of violence 14 00:01:01,020 --> 00:01:02,688 that nobody saw coming. 15 00:01:02,772 --> 00:01:04,815 That just hasn't ever made sense to me. 16 00:01:04,899 --> 00:01:06,526 A mother and son from New Jersy 17 00:01:06,609 --> 00:01:07,943 are dead tonight. 18 00:01:09,528 --> 00:01:11,155 This was brutal. 19 00:01:11,238 --> 00:01:13,908 This was much more than typical murder. 20 00:01:13,991 --> 00:01:16,160 Tommy was my age. 21 00:01:16,243 --> 00:01:18,704 Same socioeconomic background. 22 00:01:18,788 --> 00:01:20,247 We all grew up with the same rules. 23 00:01:20,331 --> 00:01:23,083 Great kid, wrestler, baseball player, good student. 24 00:01:23,167 --> 00:01:25,127 And his mom? 25 00:01:25,211 --> 00:01:26,420 Super, super lady. 26 00:01:28,464 --> 00:01:32,301 Such a small town with such a tragic event. 27 00:01:32,384 --> 00:01:36,263 It was just all everybody wanted to talk about. 28 00:01:36,347 --> 00:01:39,850 We prayed for Tom. We prayed for Betty Ann. 29 00:01:39,934 --> 00:01:42,102 We prayed for the family that was left. 30 00:01:42,186 --> 00:01:43,771 We prayed for ourselves. 31 00:01:45,396 --> 00:01:46,733 The rumor mill's running wild 32 00:01:46,816 --> 00:01:48,400 because people want answers. 33 00:01:48,484 --> 00:01:49,819 Morris County Police 34 00:01:49,902 --> 00:01:51,737 are broadening their investigation 35 00:01:51,821 --> 00:01:53,941 to determine if it was linked to a local satanic cult. 36 00:01:55,157 --> 00:01:56,825 We had a lotta things 37 00:01:56,908 --> 00:02:00,329 that pointed toward the devil made him do it. 38 00:02:00,412 --> 00:02:02,248 Is that possible? 39 00:02:02,331 --> 00:02:03,958 Everybody was buying in 40 00:02:04,041 --> 00:02:06,710 that this was a Satanic murder. 41 00:02:06,794 --> 00:02:08,169 "To the greatest demons of hell, 42 00:02:08,253 --> 00:02:11,423 I'd like to make a solemn exchange with you." 43 00:02:11,507 --> 00:02:13,926 When you make a pact with a deity... 44 00:02:17,388 --> 00:02:19,098 ...there has to be a sacrifice. 45 00:02:20,766 --> 00:02:21,809 This meeting in Morris County 46 00:02:21,892 --> 00:02:23,227 was set up to make people aware 47 00:02:23,310 --> 00:02:25,103 that Satanism exists. 48 00:02:25,187 --> 00:02:27,857 People in the community were looking for something to blame. 49 00:02:27,940 --> 00:02:30,860 I just could not believe what's going on. 50 00:02:30,943 --> 00:02:32,695 You can call it the boogeyman. You can call it the devil. 51 00:02:32,778 --> 00:02:34,154 The devil doing it. 52 00:02:34,238 --> 00:02:36,281 It's not really a satisfying explanation. 53 00:02:36,365 --> 00:02:37,825 What was going on with this family? 54 00:02:37,908 --> 00:02:39,076 What's being hidden here? 55 00:02:41,287 --> 00:02:44,123 Parents were terrified that their kids could be next 56 00:02:44,206 --> 00:02:46,375 or that they could be next. 57 00:02:46,458 --> 00:02:48,835 It's one of those moments that you question your faith. 58 00:02:48,918 --> 00:02:50,170 How can this happen? 59 00:02:52,339 --> 00:02:54,841 The whole room got cold. 60 00:02:54,925 --> 00:03:01,098 The question was, was I talking to Satan or Tom? 61 00:03:03,142 --> 00:03:05,102 It's horrifying. It's scary. It's fascinating. 62 00:03:05,185 --> 00:03:07,271 It's mysterious. It's insane. 63 00:03:09,023 --> 00:03:13,152 You know, Satan comes in many disguises. 64 00:03:13,235 --> 00:03:15,529 And he knows everybody's weaknesses 65 00:03:15,613 --> 00:03:17,865 and he knows how to manipulate them. 66 00:03:19,241 --> 00:03:22,661 What he did, I don't know, but I know he played a part in it. 67 00:03:25,122 --> 00:03:26,749 It wasn't God. 68 00:04:02,201 --> 00:04:04,244 The suburbs in the 1980s 69 00:04:04,328 --> 00:04:06,455 was the ideal place and time to be a kid. 70 00:04:07,957 --> 00:04:10,542 No phones, no social media. 71 00:04:10,626 --> 00:04:12,628 Just bikes, friends, and freedom. 72 00:04:14,213 --> 00:04:16,339 The world felt safe and magical. 73 00:04:16,423 --> 00:04:18,841 A perfect little bubble. 74 00:04:18,926 --> 00:04:20,219 But beneath that innocence, 75 00:04:20,302 --> 00:04:22,763 there was this thing, 76 00:04:22,846 --> 00:04:26,934 this malevolence creeping in the shadows. 77 00:04:27,017 --> 00:04:29,770 No one knew where or when it would strike, 78 00:04:29,853 --> 00:04:32,314 but when it did, it was shocking, 79 00:04:32,398 --> 00:04:35,734 and it shattered everything we thought was real. 80 00:04:35,818 --> 00:04:38,988 I'm Eli Roth, and I've spent decades writing 81 00:04:39,071 --> 00:04:40,948 and directing horror movies. 82 00:04:41,031 --> 00:04:43,117 They entertain, 83 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,078 but they also tap into real fears we all have 84 00:04:46,161 --> 00:04:47,788 about the darkness around us. 85 00:04:49,999 --> 00:04:53,794 I've been inspired by true stories. 86 00:04:53,877 --> 00:04:55,838 They conjured images in my mind 87 00:04:55,921 --> 00:04:58,507 that were even scarier than any ghost story I could make up. 88 00:04:58,590 --> 00:05:00,676 And it's these kinds of stories 89 00:05:00,759 --> 00:05:04,179 that haunt a whole community for decades, 90 00:05:04,263 --> 00:05:06,974 just like what happened in Jefferson, New Jersey, 91 00:05:07,057 --> 00:05:09,852 one cold, snowy night in 1988. 92 00:05:20,529 --> 00:05:22,072 I was a police officer 93 00:05:22,156 --> 00:05:24,283 for Jefferson Township in the '80s. 94 00:05:24,366 --> 00:05:26,326 20-something years old. 95 00:05:26,410 --> 00:05:29,288 And I was really just becoming an adult, really. 96 00:05:31,582 --> 00:05:35,044 Came from a family of police officers. 97 00:05:35,127 --> 00:05:37,880 My dad was a police officer in Jefferson Township, also, 98 00:05:37,963 --> 00:05:39,757 and spent most of my childhood 99 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:41,800 around police and police families. 100 00:05:44,511 --> 00:05:47,765 I always looked up to my father and, you know, 101 00:05:47,848 --> 00:05:51,268 respected him and wanted to follow in the path that he took. 102 00:05:54,688 --> 00:05:56,732 I knew the police life, 103 00:05:56,815 --> 00:06:00,819 and I understood it and just always found it interesting, 104 00:06:00,903 --> 00:06:03,238 you know, dangerous, risky. 105 00:06:03,322 --> 00:06:05,240 And I kind of enjoyed that, you know... 106 00:06:05,324 --> 00:06:08,952 the adrenaline, and something I really liked to do. 107 00:06:21,924 --> 00:06:24,176 Usually on a Saturday night, you'll get a call about a party 108 00:06:24,259 --> 00:06:26,428 or a bar fight or something. 109 00:06:31,141 --> 00:06:33,060 Officer McConley. 110 00:06:33,143 --> 00:06:35,813 The dispatch said, "Oh, we got a call 111 00:06:35,896 --> 00:06:39,024 that a guy couldn't find his wife." 112 00:06:39,108 --> 00:06:40,734 And it was kind of a weird call. 113 00:06:40,818 --> 00:06:41,819 You know, to me, it sounds like, alright, 114 00:06:41,902 --> 00:06:42,820 does she have a boyfriend? 115 00:06:42,903 --> 00:06:44,488 Like, you know, like, 116 00:06:44,571 --> 00:06:45,656 "What do you mean, you can't find your wife?" 117 00:06:45,739 --> 00:06:46,739 Copy that. 118 00:06:49,368 --> 00:06:51,120 I was young, so I was aggressive. 119 00:06:53,872 --> 00:06:55,916 You know, I got there quick. 120 00:06:57,793 --> 00:06:59,837 It was cold and it was snowing. 121 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:02,131 And I remember a lotta snow on the ground. 122 00:07:05,259 --> 00:07:06,927 When I pulled up, there was a yard 123 00:07:07,010 --> 00:07:09,179 that went up kinda like a hill to the front door. 124 00:07:10,931 --> 00:07:13,058 There was a group of people down by the road, 125 00:07:13,142 --> 00:07:14,769 and one of the kids I played football with, 126 00:07:14,852 --> 00:07:18,438 Stuart Kennedy, was in the yard with some people. 127 00:07:18,522 --> 00:07:19,982 He was my age. 128 00:07:20,065 --> 00:07:22,609 Yeah, we graduated together and everything, 129 00:07:22,693 --> 00:07:25,154 and he was distraught. 130 00:07:25,237 --> 00:07:28,198 And I got out of the car and I said, "What's up, Stuart?" 131 00:07:28,282 --> 00:07:31,368 And he said, "Oh, you might need the first aid kit. 132 00:07:31,451 --> 00:07:32,703 She's bleeding." 133 00:07:35,330 --> 00:07:37,166 We proceeded into the house. 134 00:07:40,627 --> 00:07:43,213 It was a small house. Very small. 135 00:07:43,297 --> 00:07:45,507 And so we went in the front door, 136 00:07:45,591 --> 00:07:48,385 and there was, like, a living room area. 137 00:07:48,468 --> 00:07:52,306 We proceeded straight, and when we took the corner, 138 00:07:52,389 --> 00:07:54,766 there was the steps going down to the basement. 139 00:07:59,396 --> 00:08:02,983 Never expected to come across what I found. 140 00:08:13,744 --> 00:08:15,162 Hello? 141 00:08:16,705 --> 00:08:19,166 Is anybody here? 142 00:08:19,249 --> 00:08:20,792 This is police. 143 00:08:43,649 --> 00:08:45,108 Ma'am? 144 00:08:56,328 --> 00:08:59,039 Blood is like oil. 145 00:08:59,122 --> 00:09:01,959 If you take a quart of oil and you drop it, 146 00:09:02,042 --> 00:09:03,001 it'll keep spreading. 147 00:09:07,256 --> 00:09:08,882 I remember I leaned over her 148 00:09:08,966 --> 00:09:13,136 'cause I didn't know if I was gonna need to do CPR. 149 00:09:13,220 --> 00:09:15,681 That's when I saw that, like... 150 00:09:15,764 --> 00:09:18,058 I remember, like, an eyeball hanging out of the head and all. 151 00:09:18,141 --> 00:09:20,018 It was... 152 00:09:20,102 --> 00:09:22,521 It was pretty, um... 153 00:09:22,604 --> 00:09:25,482 I don't know how to explain it. 154 00:09:25,565 --> 00:09:29,736 It's not something, you know, you'd expect to see. Like... 155 00:09:29,820 --> 00:09:32,239 You know, it's like something out of a horror movie. 156 00:09:37,369 --> 00:09:39,413 Then I saw weights on the floor, 157 00:09:39,496 --> 00:09:41,623 and the weights were off to one end, 158 00:09:41,707 --> 00:09:44,334 so I assumed that her head was bashed in, 159 00:09:44,418 --> 00:09:47,629 which caused her eyeball to explode out of the socket. 160 00:09:47,713 --> 00:09:53,510 And at that point, I knew that she was gone. 161 00:09:56,346 --> 00:09:58,598 I went into, like, my job mode. 162 00:10:04,021 --> 00:10:06,648 I didn't know if somebody had broke 163 00:10:06,732 --> 00:10:08,567 into the house and killed her. 164 00:10:08,650 --> 00:10:11,028 Was it a burglary that went bad? Was it... 165 00:10:11,111 --> 00:10:13,196 I had no idea what it was. 166 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,782 I'm just, "Is there a killer in this house?" 167 00:10:19,411 --> 00:10:21,621 Hello? 168 00:10:21,705 --> 00:10:23,832 The basement was small... 169 00:10:27,961 --> 00:10:29,921 ...but then there was kind of like a utility room. 170 00:10:32,591 --> 00:10:34,092 I thought for sure, because the blood 171 00:10:34,176 --> 00:10:36,970 was still coming out, like, slowly, 172 00:10:37,054 --> 00:10:40,515 that whoever did it was... was maybe in the other room. 173 00:10:44,311 --> 00:10:46,271 You know, your blood's pumping. 174 00:10:58,742 --> 00:10:59,951 Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey! 175 00:11:02,496 --> 00:11:04,164 For a second, I didn't know it was Stuart. 176 00:11:06,666 --> 00:11:08,710 So that was close. 177 00:11:08,794 --> 00:11:10,128 Hey. 178 00:11:10,212 --> 00:11:12,464 He was shooken up. Yeah. 179 00:11:15,926 --> 00:11:18,470 Once we realized there was nobody there, 180 00:11:18,553 --> 00:11:20,722 then I went upstairs. 181 00:11:20,806 --> 00:11:22,849 A lotta people in town had police electrons 182 00:11:22,933 --> 00:11:24,267 so they could hear everything 183 00:11:24,351 --> 00:11:26,395 that you talk about on the radios. 184 00:11:26,478 --> 00:11:28,480 So, we were instructed that if it's something major, 185 00:11:28,563 --> 00:11:31,358 call headquarters from the phone. 186 00:11:31,441 --> 00:11:33,318 And then Bruce showed up. 187 00:11:33,402 --> 00:11:35,070 When Bart got on the radio, 188 00:11:35,153 --> 00:11:36,655 you could tell it was obviously something serious. 189 00:11:36,738 --> 00:11:37,823 His voice was excited. 190 00:11:37,906 --> 00:11:39,199 He was calling for the detectives, 191 00:11:39,282 --> 00:11:40,784 calling for the medical examiner, 192 00:11:40,867 --> 00:11:42,661 calling for additional help and resources. 193 00:11:44,496 --> 00:11:47,457 In 1988, I was 31 years old. 194 00:11:47,540 --> 00:11:51,211 At that time, I was a patrolman in Jefferson Township. 195 00:11:51,294 --> 00:11:54,339 Married, no children at the time, 196 00:11:54,423 --> 00:11:56,383 and just enjoying life. 197 00:11:56,466 --> 00:11:58,385 Well, it was a nice town. 198 00:11:58,468 --> 00:12:00,762 I mean, obviously I was familiar with everybody. 199 00:12:00,846 --> 00:12:02,848 I grew up here. 200 00:12:02,931 --> 00:12:04,016 And that's the way the town was back then. 201 00:12:04,099 --> 00:12:06,017 Everybody knew each other. 202 00:12:06,101 --> 00:12:09,354 It was just a normal, good place to live. 203 00:12:12,691 --> 00:12:15,527 There's been other homicides within the town, 204 00:12:15,610 --> 00:12:17,946 but not frequently. 205 00:12:18,029 --> 00:12:21,700 Maybe, you know, once a year or once every two years. 206 00:12:21,783 --> 00:12:23,618 So, this was shocking. 207 00:12:26,413 --> 00:12:30,208 When I arrived at the scene, it was 11:00 at night, 208 00:12:30,292 --> 00:12:33,253 about a dozen people out in the front yard. 209 00:12:33,336 --> 00:12:35,338 As soon as I got out, all kinds of people 210 00:12:35,422 --> 00:12:37,382 are telling me what's going on 211 00:12:37,466 --> 00:12:39,301 and, you know, trying to sort out who was who 212 00:12:39,384 --> 00:12:40,928 and who actually even lived in the house. 213 00:12:48,435 --> 00:12:52,939 When I first entered, I noticed the smell of burnt paper. 214 00:13:05,702 --> 00:13:08,663 There was books scattered about the floor 215 00:13:08,747 --> 00:13:11,917 that had been on fire. 216 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,295 I remember just a lotta confusion, you know, 217 00:13:15,378 --> 00:13:16,898 trying to figure out what was going on. 218 00:13:19,049 --> 00:13:20,884 So, I'm up by the kitchen now, 219 00:13:20,967 --> 00:13:23,053 and this guy comes storming in the house... 220 00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:27,974 Excuse me, sir. It's a closed crime scene. 221 00:13:28,058 --> 00:13:29,935 Officers, this is who did it. 222 00:13:30,018 --> 00:13:31,728 This is my son. I live here. 223 00:13:31,811 --> 00:13:35,649 ...and says, "My son did it," like, aggressively. 224 00:13:35,732 --> 00:13:37,067 What's your son's name? 225 00:13:37,150 --> 00:13:38,693 Thomas Sullivan Jr. 226 00:13:38,777 --> 00:13:39,694 How old is your son? 227 00:13:39,778 --> 00:13:40,778 14. 228 00:13:42,239 --> 00:13:44,324 He grabs a photo. 229 00:13:44,407 --> 00:13:46,993 Looked like a school photo of a young boy. 230 00:13:47,077 --> 00:13:48,620 And that kind of threw me back. 231 00:13:48,703 --> 00:13:50,080 I said, "Well, who's that?" 232 00:13:50,163 --> 00:13:52,332 And he said, "That's my son Tommy. 233 00:13:52,415 --> 00:13:53,834 He killed my wife. She's downstairs." 234 00:13:55,377 --> 00:13:59,506 He was excited and upset. Understandably. 235 00:13:59,589 --> 00:14:01,675 I was trying to calm him down. 236 00:14:01,758 --> 00:14:03,426 He was adamant that it was... You know, 237 00:14:03,510 --> 00:14:05,512 Tommy was the one that did it. 238 00:14:05,595 --> 00:14:07,389 But I just couldn't comprehend 239 00:14:07,472 --> 00:14:10,141 that a young boy would be able to do that to his mother. 240 00:14:10,225 --> 00:14:11,977 You know, an eighth grader. 241 00:14:12,060 --> 00:14:14,020 I mean, he looked like... He was a child. 242 00:14:14,104 --> 00:14:15,647 If you looked at the picture, it was a child. 243 00:14:15,730 --> 00:14:18,149 Whatever he did to my wife. 244 00:14:18,233 --> 00:14:21,486 I remember he seemed credible when I first spoke to him. 245 00:14:21,570 --> 00:14:23,905 He did that. Did you see downstairs? It was him. 246 00:14:23,989 --> 00:14:26,533 He was very adamant... "My son did this. Get him. 247 00:14:26,616 --> 00:14:28,494 "Look, he tried to burn the house down," buh-buh-buh. 248 00:14:28,577 --> 00:14:30,620 That's what really threw me off. 249 00:14:30,704 --> 00:14:32,872 I have seen everything. I've seen the circle. 250 00:14:32,956 --> 00:14:35,040 The father made him a suspect... I've seen my wife. 251 00:14:35,125 --> 00:14:38,962 ...which I found unusual because... 252 00:14:39,045 --> 00:14:40,547 I don't think a father would want to blame his kid 253 00:14:40,630 --> 00:14:41,630 until he knew. 254 00:14:43,508 --> 00:14:44,884 Wouldn't you be worried 255 00:14:44,968 --> 00:14:46,220 that maybe they abducted your son, too? 256 00:14:46,303 --> 00:14:47,887 Killed the wife and took the son? 257 00:14:47,971 --> 00:14:51,433 A father would protect his child. 258 00:14:51,516 --> 00:14:53,935 None of it made sense to me. 259 00:14:58,231 --> 00:14:59,691 There are several police reports 260 00:14:59,774 --> 00:15:01,484 available from that night, 261 00:15:01,568 --> 00:15:04,404 and one is a write-up from Officer Bart McConley. 262 00:15:04,487 --> 00:15:06,823 In his report, 263 00:15:06,906 --> 00:15:09,034 he recounts a statement from the father of the house, 264 00:15:09,117 --> 00:15:13,455 Tom Sullivan Sr., about his whereabouts that night. 265 00:15:13,538 --> 00:15:18,793 "He advised me that he was sick and went to bed early. 266 00:15:18,877 --> 00:15:23,715 "As he was sleeping, he heard the smoke detector go off. 267 00:15:23,798 --> 00:15:26,009 "He got up to see what was wrong 268 00:15:26,092 --> 00:15:28,511 "and found what he thought were newspapers burning 269 00:15:28,595 --> 00:15:31,139 "on his living room couch. 270 00:15:31,222 --> 00:15:34,601 "After distinguishing the fire, he went to the door 271 00:15:34,684 --> 00:15:38,104 "and saw his automobile rolling down the driveway 272 00:15:38,188 --> 00:15:41,608 "and into the snowbank across the street. 273 00:15:41,691 --> 00:15:44,069 "He then went over to the neighbors 274 00:15:44,152 --> 00:15:46,237 and he had his neighbor call the police." 275 00:15:50,659 --> 00:15:52,911 I was at a party at a friend's house, 276 00:15:52,994 --> 00:15:56,498 which was right across the street from the Sullivans'. 277 00:15:56,581 --> 00:15:57,707 All of a sudden, somebody started rapping 278 00:15:57,790 --> 00:15:59,501 on the door real loud... 279 00:16:01,086 --> 00:16:04,673 And it was Tom Sr. from across the street. 280 00:16:04,756 --> 00:16:06,758 And he's just, like, hyperventilating, sweating. 281 00:16:06,841 --> 00:16:08,802 I mean, the guy's a mess. 282 00:16:08,885 --> 00:16:10,428 And he said that his house was on fire 283 00:16:10,512 --> 00:16:12,764 and he can't find his family. 284 00:16:12,847 --> 00:16:14,599 So they immediately called the cops. 285 00:16:14,683 --> 00:16:17,727 I said, "Well, let's go over there." 286 00:16:17,811 --> 00:16:21,022 Went into the house with him, 287 00:16:21,106 --> 00:16:24,234 and there were books on the floor that were on fire. 288 00:16:25,694 --> 00:16:28,613 We started stamping it all out. 289 00:16:28,697 --> 00:16:31,741 And the books that were on fire were Satanic books 290 00:16:31,825 --> 00:16:33,705 that were set up in a circle in the living room. 291 00:16:35,745 --> 00:16:37,706 It was unnerving, that's for sure. 292 00:16:44,587 --> 00:16:48,383 The younger son comes out of his bedroom. 293 00:16:48,466 --> 00:16:50,135 I mean, that kid was young. 294 00:16:53,012 --> 00:16:55,014 So, I said, "Well, let's check downstairs." 295 00:16:56,558 --> 00:16:57,767 Betty Ann? 296 00:17:04,607 --> 00:17:06,651 Get halfway downstairs, 297 00:17:08,153 --> 00:17:11,531 Tom looks to his left, sees his wife... 298 00:17:11,614 --> 00:17:13,074 Betty Ann! 299 00:17:13,157 --> 00:17:14,617 ...and just flipped out. 300 00:17:14,701 --> 00:17:16,744 He ran up, picked the kid up, 301 00:17:16,828 --> 00:17:19,455 and ran across the street to my friend's house. 302 00:17:19,539 --> 00:17:21,249 And I just followed. 303 00:17:23,167 --> 00:17:26,296 He turned to me and said, "Tommy did it." 304 00:17:28,006 --> 00:17:29,716 I was scared shitless. 305 00:17:29,799 --> 00:17:31,426 Scared shitless. 306 00:17:36,264 --> 00:17:39,809 We received a phone call. 307 00:17:39,893 --> 00:17:42,562 We lived probably a mile, 308 00:17:42,645 --> 00:17:45,815 a mile and a half from the scene. 309 00:17:45,899 --> 00:17:48,693 In 1988, I was a detective 310 00:17:48,777 --> 00:17:50,445 and a juvenile officer 311 00:17:50,528 --> 00:17:53,323 for the Township of Jefferson Police Department. 312 00:17:53,406 --> 00:17:54,908 Any kids that got in trouble 313 00:17:54,991 --> 00:17:56,243 usually ended up sitting in front of my desk 314 00:17:56,326 --> 00:17:58,328 or me paying a visit. 315 00:17:58,411 --> 00:18:00,914 I had never heard of Tommy or his brother, Brian, 316 00:18:00,997 --> 00:18:03,833 so they had no history with me as a juvenile officer 317 00:18:03,917 --> 00:18:05,502 or the department. 318 00:18:05,585 --> 00:18:08,254 We started looking at what was going on with this family. 319 00:18:08,338 --> 00:18:09,756 How did this come about? 320 00:18:12,592 --> 00:18:15,720 The family, Betty Ann and Tom Sr., 321 00:18:15,804 --> 00:18:17,472 to the best of my knowledge, 322 00:18:17,555 --> 00:18:20,141 had never had any contact with the police department. 323 00:18:20,225 --> 00:18:22,269 It wasn't a place, as soon as they gave out the address, 324 00:18:22,352 --> 00:18:23,854 you know who it was, that type of thing. 325 00:18:23,937 --> 00:18:26,815 We had certainly had plenty of those over the years. 326 00:18:26,898 --> 00:18:28,734 I had never had any dealings with this family 327 00:18:28,817 --> 00:18:32,237 at all prior to this and after this. 328 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:33,840 They weren't on the radar for anything. 329 00:18:35,406 --> 00:18:37,534 Betty Ann was a devout Catholic. 330 00:18:37,617 --> 00:18:40,161 From what we understood, she went to Mass every day. 331 00:18:40,245 --> 00:18:42,747 She made sure that Tommy got to Mass 332 00:18:42,831 --> 00:18:46,125 usually at least once a week on Sunday, and maybe even more. 333 00:18:48,253 --> 00:18:51,422 We have no real idea of why this happened. 334 00:18:51,506 --> 00:18:53,716 We need to facilitate the gathering 335 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,511 of whatever forensic evidence might be available at the scene. 336 00:18:59,180 --> 00:19:00,890 There was still some smoke evident 337 00:19:00,974 --> 00:19:02,725 in the house at the time. 338 00:19:02,809 --> 00:19:05,228 I'm just looking at remnants of a newspaper fire 339 00:19:05,311 --> 00:19:08,231 where somebody balled some newspaper up and lit it. 340 00:19:08,314 --> 00:19:10,817 And then there were the books that were in the circle. 341 00:19:12,318 --> 00:19:14,612 After I got down to the basement, 342 00:19:14,696 --> 00:19:17,740 the first thing I saw was Mrs. Sullivan. 343 00:19:17,824 --> 00:19:20,201 And it was obviously... 344 00:19:20,285 --> 00:19:21,620 You know, she was deceased at that point. 345 00:19:21,703 --> 00:19:23,538 It wasn't even a matter of, you know, 346 00:19:23,621 --> 00:19:25,707 an ambulance to transport her 'cause she may make it. 347 00:19:28,126 --> 00:19:30,545 What we initially took away from it 348 00:19:30,628 --> 00:19:31,880 was the level of violence. 349 00:19:33,798 --> 00:19:36,092 People can get upset, have a fight, 350 00:19:36,175 --> 00:19:39,220 maybe lose their temper, hit someone, 351 00:19:39,304 --> 00:19:41,931 have a weapon and use it, 352 00:19:42,015 --> 00:19:44,475 you know, in the heat of passion or... 353 00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:46,394 But this was brutal. 354 00:19:47,687 --> 00:19:50,398 She was stabbed multiple times about the upper torso 355 00:19:50,481 --> 00:19:51,983 and the face, 356 00:19:52,066 --> 00:19:53,610 and just the saturation of the blood 357 00:19:53,693 --> 00:19:57,196 down in the basement was... kinda sticks in my mind. 358 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,407 And she had to have put up a fight. 359 00:19:59,490 --> 00:20:04,120 She did have wounds to her arms, mostly to her upper torso, 360 00:20:04,203 --> 00:20:07,123 which I'm guessing after she had collapsed 361 00:20:07,206 --> 00:20:09,208 that they continued stabbing her. 362 00:20:09,292 --> 00:20:12,003 These were serious wounds. 363 00:20:12,086 --> 00:20:14,297 The number 47 sticks in my mind. 364 00:20:14,380 --> 00:20:16,507 The ones to the face... 365 00:20:16,591 --> 00:20:20,303 It appeared that there was almost an attempt 366 00:20:20,386 --> 00:20:23,765 to peel the skin off the face. 367 00:20:26,309 --> 00:20:28,811 I was the traffic officer for a while 368 00:20:28,895 --> 00:20:31,689 and handling many accident investigations. 369 00:20:31,773 --> 00:20:33,441 And quite honestly, I can say 370 00:20:33,524 --> 00:20:35,443 I've never even had a motor vehicle accident 371 00:20:35,526 --> 00:20:39,948 that was... the victims were as, you know, 372 00:20:40,031 --> 00:20:41,471 disfigured as what Mrs. Sullivan was. 373 00:20:43,159 --> 00:20:45,995 It was definitely a homicide. 374 00:20:46,079 --> 00:20:48,706 At that point, I'm trying to piece everything together. 375 00:20:48,790 --> 00:20:50,625 Mr. Sullivan was inside, along with Mr. Eastman, 376 00:20:50,708 --> 00:20:52,210 one of the neighbors. 377 00:20:52,293 --> 00:20:54,879 So, I'm trying to figure out the time frame of everything 378 00:20:54,963 --> 00:20:55,922 that had happened at this point. 379 00:20:58,132 --> 00:21:00,385 We had everybody accounted for in the family... 380 00:21:00,468 --> 00:21:02,679 Tom Sr., who was the father; 381 00:21:02,762 --> 00:21:04,931 Betty Ann, who was the mother, and she was the victim; 382 00:21:05,014 --> 00:21:08,393 and then Brian Sullivan was also at the house. 383 00:21:08,476 --> 00:21:12,438 We hadn't seen or there was no account of Tommy Jr. 384 00:21:12,522 --> 00:21:14,691 The question became, where is Tommy? 385 00:21:20,071 --> 00:21:24,534 I was the next-door neighbor of Tom. 386 00:21:24,617 --> 00:21:26,411 I could walk and knock on Tommy's door 387 00:21:26,494 --> 00:21:28,538 and it would take me 30 seconds. 388 00:21:30,498 --> 00:21:32,917 Tommy was my age. We grew up together. 389 00:21:33,001 --> 00:21:34,502 We were in the same class 390 00:21:34,585 --> 00:21:37,088 and wrestled on the same team. 391 00:21:37,171 --> 00:21:40,174 Jefferson, it was just like a regular, I guess, 392 00:21:40,258 --> 00:21:42,552 middle-class-type town. 393 00:21:42,635 --> 00:21:45,054 There was a bunch of kids all the same age on that street. 394 00:21:45,138 --> 00:21:47,432 Wait up. So, we would all hang out. 395 00:21:49,851 --> 00:21:52,478 There was this old burnt-out tree 396 00:21:52,562 --> 00:21:55,773 that had, like, 20 Playboys underneath. 397 00:21:55,857 --> 00:21:58,901 We would always ride our bikes there and look at the Playboys. 398 00:21:58,985 --> 00:22:01,029 If the weather wasn't nice, 399 00:22:01,112 --> 00:22:02,405 you'd try to play video games inside. 400 00:22:02,488 --> 00:22:04,615 Yikes. Oh, no. 401 00:22:04,699 --> 00:22:06,284 I remember we had a ColecoVision. 402 00:22:06,367 --> 00:22:08,828 The Sullivans had an Atari. 403 00:22:08,911 --> 00:22:10,622 His mother would bring us up snacks, make, you know... 404 00:22:10,705 --> 00:22:12,415 bring juice or whatnot. 405 00:22:12,498 --> 00:22:13,833 She was always really nice to us. 406 00:22:13,916 --> 00:22:15,043 Thanks, Mom. 407 00:22:17,962 --> 00:22:20,339 Being in the house was just, like, kinda normal. 408 00:22:22,050 --> 00:22:26,095 We would see the mom and the boys at church pretty regularly, 409 00:22:26,179 --> 00:22:30,516 and they were, you know, for the most part, just super quiet. 410 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,640 They were just like every other family on the block. 411 00:22:34,479 --> 00:22:37,148 There wasn't really anything out of the ordinary. 412 00:22:37,231 --> 00:22:39,400 Being on your own is a responsibility 413 00:22:39,484 --> 00:22:42,570 that begins as soon as you leave school. 414 00:22:42,653 --> 00:22:45,615 '80s kids had so much freedom. 415 00:22:45,698 --> 00:22:48,910 Summer breaks and weekends were spent playing all day, 416 00:22:48,993 --> 00:22:51,996 either riding bikes until the streetlights flicked on 417 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,041 or retina burn from an arcade screen. 418 00:22:55,124 --> 00:22:56,834 At some point, someone's mom would scream, 419 00:22:56,918 --> 00:22:58,586 "It's dinnertime," and we'd all go home 420 00:22:58,669 --> 00:23:01,130 and dine on blue-box mac and cheese and burgers. 421 00:23:03,049 --> 00:23:05,802 But underneath that independence was something new. 422 00:23:05,885 --> 00:23:08,638 Everyone looks forward to growing up, 423 00:23:08,721 --> 00:23:11,516 and it's a good feeling to be given more responsibilit. 424 00:23:11,599 --> 00:23:13,392 For many families, 425 00:23:13,476 --> 00:23:15,020 this was the first time that both Mom and Dad 426 00:23:15,103 --> 00:23:16,562 had full-time jobs, 427 00:23:16,646 --> 00:23:17,855 so when you got outta school, 428 00:23:17,939 --> 00:23:20,108 you'd come home to an empty house. 429 00:23:20,191 --> 00:23:24,112 They called us latchkey kids, and, of course, it was fun, 430 00:23:24,195 --> 00:23:27,782 but it made us vulnerable and it made people nervous. 431 00:23:27,865 --> 00:23:29,951 -It's 10:00 p.m. -It's 10:00 p.m. 432 00:23:30,034 --> 00:23:31,911 It's 10:00 p.m. 433 00:23:31,994 --> 00:23:34,622 Do you know where your children are? 434 00:23:34,705 --> 00:23:36,833 That wasn't just a PSA. 435 00:23:36,916 --> 00:23:39,127 It was more of a warning. 436 00:23:39,210 --> 00:23:42,588 'Cause when no one's paying attention, anything can happen. 437 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,552 I'll never forget that night. 438 00:23:53,683 --> 00:23:55,560 What the... 439 00:23:55,643 --> 00:23:58,104 There's police in the backyard. 440 00:23:58,187 --> 00:24:00,398 There was yellow caution tape. 441 00:24:00,481 --> 00:24:02,233 I remember seeing the dogs going around 442 00:24:02,316 --> 00:24:04,569 and sniffing things in the woods and whatnot. 443 00:24:04,652 --> 00:24:06,613 You could see a ton of footprints all over the place, 444 00:24:06,696 --> 00:24:08,906 so people have been trampling all around the snow 445 00:24:08,990 --> 00:24:10,992 in between his house and our house, 446 00:24:11,075 --> 00:24:13,911 and in both backyards and the front lawn and whatnot. 447 00:24:13,995 --> 00:24:15,913 Growing up in the town we grew up in, 448 00:24:15,997 --> 00:24:19,542 I mean, you never really saw... saw any cops. 449 00:24:19,625 --> 00:24:22,587 You're like, "Oh, my God, is everybody okay? 450 00:24:22,670 --> 00:24:24,255 What the hell happened next door?" 451 00:24:25,923 --> 00:24:27,509 The first thing that clicked in my head 452 00:24:27,592 --> 00:24:29,385 was just, "Find Tommy and find out what was going on." 453 00:24:37,768 --> 00:24:40,188 Did a search of the house to make sure Tommy wasn't there. 454 00:24:42,732 --> 00:24:44,775 I remember walking into his bedroom. 455 00:24:51,449 --> 00:24:53,492 The room was fairly dark. 456 00:24:53,576 --> 00:24:55,244 Bed was there. 457 00:24:55,328 --> 00:24:57,728 It was still made, so we knew he didn't go to bed that night. 458 00:24:59,874 --> 00:25:01,084 I have to look under the beds 459 00:25:01,167 --> 00:25:02,247 to see if he's under there. 460 00:25:04,503 --> 00:25:06,797 With all these cuts and everything on this woman, 461 00:25:08,424 --> 00:25:09,926 I'm thinking I'm gonna get stabbed in the fa... 462 00:25:10,009 --> 00:25:11,344 I didn't know, you know? Like... 463 00:25:23,564 --> 00:25:25,942 There was some things referring to some heavy metal. 464 00:25:36,285 --> 00:25:41,207 I did notice some drawings that he had made... ram's skull, 465 00:25:41,290 --> 00:25:43,542 some pentagrams that he had drawn, 466 00:25:43,626 --> 00:25:45,336 just on scrap paper and notebooks 467 00:25:45,419 --> 00:25:46,499 on the covers of the books. 468 00:25:48,923 --> 00:25:50,925 The one that I remember in particular 469 00:25:51,008 --> 00:25:52,927 was one of Satan's face. 470 00:25:54,971 --> 00:25:57,598 You could tell that he was not of a normal mind 471 00:25:57,682 --> 00:25:59,767 of what was going on at that point. 472 00:25:59,850 --> 00:26:01,602 Heavy metal. 473 00:26:01,686 --> 00:26:03,479 Is it harmless for your children 474 00:26:03,562 --> 00:26:05,606 or an invitation to drugs, violence, even suicide? 475 00:26:05,690 --> 00:26:09,318 Every decade has its own unique teenage rebellion. 476 00:26:09,402 --> 00:26:12,697 Pop culture to help them rage against the status quo. 477 00:26:12,780 --> 00:26:14,573 The '80s were no different. 478 00:26:14,657 --> 00:26:17,618 Alienated boys taking comfort in the aggressive sounds 479 00:26:17,702 --> 00:26:20,788 of Ozzy Osbourne, Anthrax, Metallica. 480 00:26:20,871 --> 00:26:22,665 Laughing at the tongue-in-cheek slasher films 481 00:26:22,748 --> 00:26:25,459 like "Friday the 13th" or "Nightmare on Elm Street." 482 00:26:25,543 --> 00:26:27,753 It's the one and only Freddy Krueger. 483 00:26:27,837 --> 00:26:30,214 Aah! 484 00:26:30,298 --> 00:26:32,008 When it comes to fashion, 485 00:26:32,091 --> 00:26:33,551 if you couldn't find a pentagram shirt or a band 486 00:26:33,634 --> 00:26:35,428 you liked at the local mall, 487 00:26:35,511 --> 00:26:37,972 you just got out a black marker and did it yourself. 488 00:26:38,055 --> 00:26:40,141 In fact, I remember being around Tommy's age 489 00:26:40,224 --> 00:26:42,226 and I silk-screened an Iron Maiden Eddie 490 00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:44,645 on the back of my "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" shirt. 491 00:26:44,729 --> 00:26:46,439 It was an innocent expression, 492 00:26:46,522 --> 00:26:48,482 a way to feel tough and in control. 493 00:26:48,566 --> 00:26:50,526 Unless it wasn't. 494 00:26:50,609 --> 00:26:52,903 Unless it was something darker. 495 00:26:52,987 --> 00:26:55,364 But how would anyone know? 496 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,372 The main thing at that point was secure the scene. 497 00:27:03,456 --> 00:27:06,000 Hey! Hey, come on, guys! 498 00:27:06,083 --> 00:27:08,377 In the house, we probably had about maybe six people 499 00:27:08,461 --> 00:27:10,171 that didn't belong there that went in. 500 00:27:10,254 --> 00:27:12,548 Outside, we probably had about another seven 501 00:27:12,631 --> 00:27:15,092 or so that didn't belong on the property. 502 00:27:15,176 --> 00:27:18,179 They all knew the Sullivans and they were trying to help. 503 00:27:18,262 --> 00:27:20,348 It was kinda overwhelming trying to control the scene 504 00:27:20,431 --> 00:27:22,850 when you have, you know, a dozen people wandering around. 505 00:27:22,933 --> 00:27:24,560 And it was then at that point 506 00:27:24,643 --> 00:27:26,145 we realized the scene was completely contaminated. 507 00:27:26,228 --> 00:27:28,356 This is the police department. 508 00:27:28,439 --> 00:27:31,942 I got everybody outta there and secured the area. 509 00:27:32,026 --> 00:27:33,903 And that's when we started doing our searching 510 00:27:33,986 --> 00:27:35,321 of the outside area. 511 00:27:37,907 --> 00:27:41,202 The Sullivans' car was out of the driveway 512 00:27:41,285 --> 00:27:45,373 in... kind of perpendicular to the roadway, almost, 513 00:27:45,456 --> 00:27:47,666 maybe a 45-degree angle, stuck in a snowbank. 514 00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:49,877 At that point, the big problem was, 515 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,380 we didn't have really many witnesses, 516 00:27:52,463 --> 00:27:54,423 you know, other than the father. 517 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,809 I was 19-years old, going to college. 518 00:28:04,892 --> 00:28:07,144 Coming back that first winter break, 519 00:28:07,228 --> 00:28:10,398 that was my first time being back home. 520 00:28:10,481 --> 00:28:13,150 I remember just feeling on top of the world. 521 00:28:15,319 --> 00:28:17,238 Chris Eastman, he was a friend of mine. 522 00:28:17,321 --> 00:28:19,532 We used to always have parties at his house. 523 00:28:21,033 --> 00:28:22,410 So, there was one that night. 524 00:28:22,493 --> 00:28:23,661 You know, I knew all my friends were gonna be there, 525 00:28:23,744 --> 00:28:25,955 or a lot of my friends anyway. 526 00:28:26,038 --> 00:28:28,124 And, yeah, so it was just an exciting time to get back 527 00:28:28,207 --> 00:28:29,527 and just connected with everybody. 528 00:28:32,211 --> 00:28:36,382 Parked probably about maybe six or seven houses away. 529 00:28:36,465 --> 00:28:38,676 I remember just getting out of the car 530 00:28:38,759 --> 00:28:40,803 and I was just in a good mental spot. 531 00:28:40,886 --> 00:28:42,805 I remember singing a song, you know. 532 00:28:42,888 --> 00:28:44,348 I know it's a little corny, 533 00:28:44,432 --> 00:28:46,142 but I was just in that good a mood. 534 00:28:46,225 --> 00:28:49,061 I was humming, singing, and as I was doing that, 535 00:28:49,145 --> 00:28:52,231 I noticed up the block somebody come running outside 536 00:28:52,314 --> 00:28:55,109 with something shiny in their hand. 537 00:28:55,192 --> 00:28:57,361 I thought it was a flashlight at first, 538 00:28:57,445 --> 00:28:59,822 but then I realized the way it was moving in the light, 539 00:28:59,905 --> 00:29:01,907 that it was something else. 540 00:29:01,991 --> 00:29:03,909 And I had no idea, but I knew it was metallic. 541 00:29:03,993 --> 00:29:05,578 I kinda stopped 542 00:29:05,661 --> 00:29:06,620 'cause I just thought it was weird 543 00:29:06,704 --> 00:29:08,581 that they were moving so fast. 544 00:29:08,664 --> 00:29:10,374 I couldn't tell how old the person was. 545 00:29:10,458 --> 00:29:12,377 I probably couldn't tell you if it was a guy or a girl. 546 00:29:12,460 --> 00:29:14,628 That's how far away I was and it was dark out. 547 00:29:16,380 --> 00:29:18,799 Hopped in the car, started it, and pulled out right away. 548 00:29:18,883 --> 00:29:21,343 It was like, there was no warm-up or anything like that. 549 00:29:21,427 --> 00:29:23,596 So, I was like, "Wow, this is really weird." 550 00:29:23,679 --> 00:29:26,182 Backed out very aggressively into a snow mound. 551 00:29:26,265 --> 00:29:27,600 We had a lotta snow at that time. 552 00:29:29,143 --> 00:29:31,645 And the car got stuck in the mound. 553 00:29:31,729 --> 00:29:34,982 Couldn't get out. Opened the car door. 554 00:29:35,065 --> 00:29:37,902 They didn't go in the back and try to dig it out, you know. 555 00:29:37,985 --> 00:29:40,779 They didn't even go and look at it, why it was stuck. 556 00:29:40,863 --> 00:29:45,451 Left the door open and ran back up their driveway to the right. 557 00:29:45,534 --> 00:29:47,411 And they went in between the houses 558 00:29:47,495 --> 00:29:49,580 that was directly to the right of them... 559 00:29:51,499 --> 00:29:52,666 ...and disappeared. 560 00:29:56,587 --> 00:29:58,756 I went joyriding with my friends in Jefferson 561 00:29:58,839 --> 00:30:00,925 before... before we were, you know, 562 00:30:01,008 --> 00:30:04,136 of age, so I thought that might have been the situation, 563 00:30:04,220 --> 00:30:06,680 where somebody just was trying to joyride 564 00:30:06,764 --> 00:30:09,600 and made a mistake and just kinda just took off 565 00:30:09,683 --> 00:30:12,019 'cause they were scared. 566 00:30:12,102 --> 00:30:13,687 I headed back to Chris' party. 567 00:30:14,980 --> 00:30:16,273 What's up, buddy? 568 00:30:16,357 --> 00:30:18,025 Hey. Hey. 569 00:30:18,108 --> 00:30:19,485 What's up, dude? What's up, dude? How are we doing? 570 00:30:19,568 --> 00:30:21,070 So, I went inside and I told Chris. 571 00:30:21,153 --> 00:30:22,655 I said, "Hey, your neighbor just backed out 572 00:30:22,738 --> 00:30:24,198 and left a car running with the door open 573 00:30:24,281 --> 00:30:25,991 kind of in the middle of the street." 574 00:30:26,075 --> 00:30:27,660 You know, I guess me just passing that piece 575 00:30:27,743 --> 00:30:31,121 of information to him satisfied me, you know? 576 00:30:31,205 --> 00:30:32,457 I was like, "Oh, I kinda did my job. 577 00:30:32,540 --> 00:30:34,208 I let him know that there was something outside 578 00:30:34,291 --> 00:30:37,127 that was a little unusual, and he's not worried about it, 579 00:30:37,211 --> 00:30:38,491 so I'm not gonna worry about it." 580 00:30:40,172 --> 00:30:41,674 I started having a couple beers. 581 00:30:43,842 --> 00:30:46,136 You know, it was just a good time. 582 00:30:47,805 --> 00:30:50,558 I was down there for maybe about 20 minutes. 583 00:30:52,142 --> 00:30:54,895 Then the Jefferson police came. 584 00:30:54,979 --> 00:30:56,855 Detective Hart here. Police. 585 00:30:56,939 --> 00:30:58,732 Most people there at Chris' house 586 00:30:58,816 --> 00:31:02,278 weren't 21 years old, you know, so I was one of the minors. 587 00:31:02,361 --> 00:31:04,655 So I was really worried about being in trouble 588 00:31:04,738 --> 00:31:06,240 for underage drinking. 589 00:31:06,323 --> 00:31:07,617 There was an incident earlier tonight. 590 00:31:07,700 --> 00:31:10,744 But they hit us right away with 591 00:31:10,828 --> 00:31:13,998 "Did anybody see anything next door?" 592 00:31:14,081 --> 00:31:17,126 And I just kinda raised my hand and opened my mouth. 593 00:31:17,209 --> 00:31:19,378 I saw something. 594 00:31:19,461 --> 00:31:21,338 Do you mind coming with me, please? 595 00:31:21,422 --> 00:31:22,840 Yeah. 596 00:31:22,923 --> 00:31:24,758 They took me down to the police station 597 00:31:24,842 --> 00:31:27,402 'cause they said they wanted to, you know, do some questioning... 598 00:31:29,513 --> 00:31:31,307 You knew something happened, 599 00:31:31,390 --> 00:31:33,142 and that's when I really started to get scared. 600 00:31:49,241 --> 00:31:52,328 I am a lifelong resident of Jefferson Township, 601 00:31:52,411 --> 00:31:53,579 born and raised in the Lake Shawnee section 602 00:31:53,662 --> 00:31:54,997 of the community. 603 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:56,540 I loved growing up there, 604 00:31:56,624 --> 00:31:58,042 raised my own family there 605 00:31:58,125 --> 00:32:00,461 in the house that I actually grew up in. 606 00:32:00,544 --> 00:32:02,144 So can't get any more hometown than that. 607 00:32:03,464 --> 00:32:05,299 For the last six years now, 608 00:32:05,382 --> 00:32:07,426 I've been the mayor in Jefferson Township. 609 00:32:07,509 --> 00:32:09,178 But in 1988, 610 00:32:09,261 --> 00:32:11,055 I was on the Jefferson Township Police Department, 611 00:32:11,138 --> 00:32:12,681 at that point, about two years. 612 00:32:15,059 --> 00:32:17,770 That night, I was working the midnight shift. 613 00:32:17,853 --> 00:32:20,105 At that point, they were gonna do a search 614 00:32:20,189 --> 00:32:22,524 of the area looking for Tommy Sullivan. 615 00:32:23,817 --> 00:32:26,612 For a lot of reasons, you know, you wanna try to find him. 616 00:32:26,695 --> 00:32:28,280 What happened? Was anybody else there? 617 00:32:28,364 --> 00:32:30,032 I mean, at that point, you don't know. 618 00:32:30,115 --> 00:32:32,076 He was the missing piece of, you know, 619 00:32:32,159 --> 00:32:33,952 anybody at the home at the time, 620 00:32:34,036 --> 00:32:36,664 so, naturally, he's the first suspect. 621 00:32:36,747 --> 00:32:39,249 On foot, he couldn't have gotten too, too far, 622 00:32:39,333 --> 00:32:41,502 but it was imperative to try to find him. 623 00:32:43,379 --> 00:32:46,173 At that time, we were about 30 officers, 624 00:32:46,256 --> 00:32:48,008 which is relatively small in New Jersey. 625 00:32:48,092 --> 00:32:51,095 We had a large area to cover, 42 square miles. 626 00:32:51,178 --> 00:32:52,805 Not a big population. 627 00:32:52,888 --> 00:32:54,306 I think at that time 628 00:32:54,390 --> 00:32:58,769 we were probably running about 18,000 people. 629 00:32:58,852 --> 00:33:00,854 But a wide area, a large area. 630 00:33:03,774 --> 00:33:06,819 My understanding is that my parents talked to the police 631 00:33:06,902 --> 00:33:08,862 and said that Tommy was not in there, 632 00:33:08,946 --> 00:33:10,823 and they were literally just looking. 633 00:33:10,906 --> 00:33:12,408 Like, the police came in, looked around in all the houses 634 00:33:12,491 --> 00:33:14,368 to see if Tommy was there, 635 00:33:14,451 --> 00:33:16,078 and then they went to the next house to see if he was there. 636 00:33:16,161 --> 00:33:18,330 And it was just like kind of a manhunt for Tommy. 637 00:33:18,414 --> 00:33:20,290 As all the investigators start arriving, 638 00:33:20,374 --> 00:33:21,500 I started to become more involved 639 00:33:21,583 --> 00:33:22,584 with the outside search. 640 00:33:25,421 --> 00:33:28,757 It started out where we had to organize in teams. 641 00:33:28,841 --> 00:33:30,468 We didn't wanna damage the scenes any more 642 00:33:30,551 --> 00:33:32,052 than what it was, so we held off 643 00:33:32,136 --> 00:33:33,846 on doing a foot search of the general area. 644 00:33:36,765 --> 00:33:40,185 Initially, took a while to get the K-9 unit there. 645 00:33:40,269 --> 00:33:42,855 You wanna get the K-9 there as quick as possible 646 00:33:42,938 --> 00:33:45,232 so that the scent is still fresh. 647 00:33:45,315 --> 00:33:47,693 You know, another animal comes through or anything 648 00:33:47,776 --> 00:33:50,028 that can distract the dog off that particular scent. 649 00:33:51,655 --> 00:33:53,031 They started at the car 650 00:33:53,115 --> 00:33:55,075 where it was stuck in a snowbank, 651 00:33:55,159 --> 00:33:56,660 and went across the street, 652 00:33:56,744 --> 00:33:58,162 through the neighbor's yard, 653 00:33:58,245 --> 00:34:00,497 and down and across through the woods. 654 00:34:01,874 --> 00:34:04,293 White Rock is kind of a planned community, you know, 655 00:34:04,376 --> 00:34:08,338 houses on one side, houses on the other, and woods behind. 656 00:34:08,422 --> 00:34:11,467 We're walking through the woods just looking for anything, 657 00:34:11,550 --> 00:34:13,177 looking for tracks, looking for... 658 00:34:13,260 --> 00:34:15,053 You know, K-9 will lead you 659 00:34:15,137 --> 00:34:18,181 in different directions and stuff like that. 660 00:34:18,264 --> 00:34:20,893 I was with the handler from the sheriff's department 661 00:34:20,976 --> 00:34:22,978 tracking the dog from White Rock Boulevard. 662 00:34:23,061 --> 00:34:24,730 We ended up all the way out to Schoolhouse Road, 663 00:34:24,813 --> 00:34:26,190 which is a road that runs parallel 664 00:34:26,273 --> 00:34:27,690 with White Rock Boulevard. 665 00:34:31,195 --> 00:34:33,279 Turns out what we were tracking was one of the neighbors 666 00:34:33,362 --> 00:34:36,658 that thought they were being helpful, trying to find Tommy. 667 00:34:40,746 --> 00:34:43,248 When the K-9 search didn't come up with anything, 668 00:34:43,331 --> 00:34:44,792 then we started branching out more 669 00:34:44,875 --> 00:34:46,668 and doing a search of the neighborhood. 670 00:34:49,463 --> 00:34:50,714 A lot of things going on in my mind 671 00:34:50,797 --> 00:34:52,299 about which way to proceed next. 672 00:34:52,382 --> 00:34:53,967 Wintertime, nighttime, 673 00:34:54,051 --> 00:34:55,678 so he's not gonna be hanging around outside. 674 00:34:55,761 --> 00:34:57,888 So, you know, first thing you're worried about 675 00:34:57,971 --> 00:34:59,098 is he trying to break into somebody's home? 676 00:34:59,181 --> 00:35:00,891 He'd be known in the area 677 00:35:00,974 --> 00:35:02,643 'cause the neighbors all knew each other, 678 00:35:02,726 --> 00:35:04,895 so they would know if he tried to their house, 679 00:35:04,978 --> 00:35:06,939 they'd be calling us right away. 680 00:35:07,022 --> 00:35:09,024 At some point, it was decided we needed to 681 00:35:09,107 --> 00:35:12,027 take Brian and his father to the police station. 682 00:35:28,752 --> 00:35:33,841 A gentleman and his son were in a room. 683 00:35:33,924 --> 00:35:35,843 They were, you know, very upset. 684 00:35:37,219 --> 00:35:38,720 I was scared. 685 00:35:42,641 --> 00:35:44,393 I didn't know what was going on, 686 00:35:44,476 --> 00:35:46,478 and I could tell the father was really emotional. 687 00:35:49,398 --> 00:35:51,900 The father was pacing back and forth... 688 00:35:54,444 --> 00:35:56,572 ...saying, "I don't know if I'm gonna hug him 689 00:35:56,655 --> 00:35:58,156 or if I'm gonna to kill him. 690 00:35:58,240 --> 00:35:59,950 When they find him, I don't know if I'm gonna 691 00:36:00,033 --> 00:36:02,703 hug him or if I'm gonna kill him." 692 00:36:02,786 --> 00:36:04,538 And that's when I realized something, 693 00:36:04,621 --> 00:36:05,831 you know, really bad happened. 694 00:36:10,627 --> 00:36:12,796 Tom. 695 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:14,548 They took the father out, 696 00:36:14,631 --> 00:36:17,009 and they left me in the room with the young boy. 697 00:36:20,721 --> 00:36:23,140 And I could hear a lot of commotion through the door, 698 00:36:23,223 --> 00:36:25,392 and I realized that somebody... somebody died. 699 00:36:29,062 --> 00:36:31,982 The boy was sitting there crying. 700 00:36:44,661 --> 00:36:48,624 You know, I went over and, you know, he didn't know me, 701 00:36:48,707 --> 00:36:49,791 I didn't know him. 702 00:36:49,875 --> 00:36:51,585 But, you know, he was crying. 703 00:36:51,668 --> 00:36:54,713 And then, you know, I started crying. 704 00:36:54,796 --> 00:36:57,716 Not sure why. Don't know why. 705 00:36:57,799 --> 00:37:01,053 Maybe I was feeling compassion for the boy. 706 00:37:01,136 --> 00:37:04,181 Maybe I was scared that somebody died 707 00:37:04,264 --> 00:37:08,810 and I'm in the police station and I'm being questioned, um... 708 00:37:08,894 --> 00:37:12,648 It was just a really emotional experience for me. 709 00:37:12,731 --> 00:37:15,233 But I remember I was just trying to comfort the boy, 710 00:37:15,317 --> 00:37:17,903 and I don't know how long it was, 711 00:37:17,986 --> 00:37:21,073 but they pulled me in for some questioning. 712 00:37:23,075 --> 00:37:25,035 I just remember I needed to focus 713 00:37:25,118 --> 00:37:27,579 and give them every bit of information as best I could, 714 00:37:27,663 --> 00:37:30,916 but it was certainly a tough time for sure. 715 00:37:33,961 --> 00:37:36,755 There was a lot of concern about Brian that night. 716 00:37:38,382 --> 00:37:40,092 Tell me everything you remember tonight. 717 00:37:42,761 --> 00:37:46,223 And then he started talking about it. 718 00:37:46,306 --> 00:37:50,352 And what he related to me was his interaction with Tommy. 719 00:37:55,482 --> 00:37:58,068 Brian Sullivan, age 10, 720 00:37:58,151 --> 00:38:00,153 states that he and his brother Tom 721 00:38:00,237 --> 00:38:02,781 had watched TV in the downstairs family room 722 00:38:02,864 --> 00:38:06,368 from approximately 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p. m. 723 00:38:06,451 --> 00:38:07,953 During this time, 724 00:38:08,036 --> 00:38:10,330 his mother remained upstairs with his father, 725 00:38:10,414 --> 00:38:11,414 who wasn't feeling well. 726 00:38:13,458 --> 00:38:14,501 Did you see that? 727 00:38:25,053 --> 00:38:27,723 Brian, come on. It's time for bed. 728 00:38:27,806 --> 00:38:29,224 Say good night. 729 00:38:29,307 --> 00:38:30,600 Good night, Tom. 730 00:38:34,646 --> 00:38:36,982 At approximately 10:00 p.m., 731 00:38:37,065 --> 00:38:38,734 he went to his room to go to bed. 732 00:38:40,569 --> 00:38:42,029 Hail Mary, who art in heaven... 733 00:38:42,112 --> 00:38:43,989 He said his prayers. 734 00:38:44,072 --> 00:38:46,783 ...On Earth as it is in heaven. 735 00:38:46,867 --> 00:38:48,744 Give us this day our daily bread. 736 00:38:48,827 --> 00:38:52,581 A short time later, he got up to go to the bathroom. 737 00:38:52,664 --> 00:38:56,334 He got up and came basically face-to-face with Tommy. 738 00:38:59,212 --> 00:39:01,089 He saw his brother Tom, 739 00:39:01,173 --> 00:39:04,217 who appeared all hyped up, shaking, and nervous. 740 00:39:04,301 --> 00:39:05,844 Tom? 741 00:39:08,513 --> 00:39:10,515 Noticed that Tommy was getting cleaned up. 742 00:39:10,599 --> 00:39:13,018 It looked like he had blood on his hands, 743 00:39:13,101 --> 00:39:15,145 bloody towel, that type of thing. 744 00:39:15,228 --> 00:39:17,105 And asked him what had happened. 745 00:39:17,189 --> 00:39:19,858 And Tommy just kind of said, "Don't worry about it. 746 00:39:19,941 --> 00:39:22,402 I just cut myself. It's all taken care of." 747 00:39:22,486 --> 00:39:24,946 Tom then told Brian to go back to bed 748 00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:26,740 and "Don't wake up Daddy." 749 00:39:29,117 --> 00:39:31,453 Brian then states he became scared 750 00:39:31,536 --> 00:39:34,581 and went back to his bedroom to find his stuffed animals. 751 00:39:37,667 --> 00:39:39,294 It wasn't long after that 752 00:39:39,377 --> 00:39:41,630 that the smoke alarm in the house went off, 753 00:39:41,713 --> 00:39:44,883 and that's what kind of sparked the series of events 754 00:39:44,966 --> 00:39:48,470 that led to the discovery of Betty Ann in the basement. 755 00:40:00,899 --> 00:40:03,944 I would say it was maybe 45 minutes to an hour 756 00:40:04,027 --> 00:40:05,362 before I was sent back on patrol. 757 00:40:09,950 --> 00:40:11,993 So, I'm driving and I remember 758 00:40:12,077 --> 00:40:13,745 a lot of things were going through my mind 759 00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:15,622 thinking about what the father told me. 760 00:40:18,250 --> 00:40:21,294 Just didn't feel right to me. 761 00:40:21,378 --> 00:40:24,464 For a father to draw a conclusion that quickly, 762 00:40:24,548 --> 00:40:26,800 to go from knowing nothing to saying, 763 00:40:26,883 --> 00:40:29,886 "Get my son," when you don't even know where your son is. 764 00:40:29,970 --> 00:40:32,514 He was very adamant, "My son did this. 765 00:40:32,597 --> 00:40:36,476 "Look, he tried to burn the house down," buh-buh-buh. 766 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,895 But how do you know that? You were sleeping. 767 00:40:38,979 --> 00:40:42,232 Said that the smoke detector woke him up. 768 00:40:42,315 --> 00:40:44,818 And already in my mind, I'm thinking, 769 00:40:44,901 --> 00:40:46,570 "That brutal murder didn't wake you up 770 00:40:46,653 --> 00:40:48,572 in that little tiny house?" 771 00:40:48,655 --> 00:40:50,490 I found it a little odd. 772 00:40:51,992 --> 00:40:53,451 You never searched your house. 773 00:40:53,535 --> 00:40:54,953 Why are you gonna look at a high school party? 774 00:40:55,036 --> 00:40:57,122 Why wouldn't you look in your house first? 775 00:40:57,205 --> 00:41:01,376 And why did you have teenagers call headquarters? 776 00:41:01,459 --> 00:41:03,712 How did you go from going down the street to the party, 777 00:41:03,795 --> 00:41:05,755 to coming back and knowing that your son did this? 778 00:41:07,048 --> 00:41:08,925 At minimum, 779 00:41:09,009 --> 00:41:11,219 I felt like he knew a lot more than he was telling me. 780 00:41:16,474 --> 00:41:19,060 My shift ended. I didn't go home. 781 00:41:19,144 --> 00:41:21,730 I went to my parents' house, 782 00:41:21,813 --> 00:41:23,857 and I remember I was still in uniform, 783 00:41:23,940 --> 00:41:26,359 and my dad came out and said, "What's going on?" 784 00:41:28,278 --> 00:41:31,239 I was really just becoming an adult, really, 785 00:41:31,323 --> 00:41:33,158 like 20-something years old. 786 00:41:33,241 --> 00:41:35,035 Didn't experience much in life. 787 00:41:36,786 --> 00:41:40,165 And I just kind of told him what happened. 788 00:41:40,248 --> 00:41:44,127 You know, that we found this woman that was, 789 00:41:44,211 --> 00:41:46,671 like, brutally murdered, 790 00:41:46,755 --> 00:41:49,841 and I was trying to process it. 791 00:41:49,925 --> 00:41:51,551 It was terrible. 792 00:41:53,261 --> 00:41:54,804 And it bothered me. 793 00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,351 My dad, he was like, "You know, it's terrible, 794 00:41:59,434 --> 00:42:02,604 but imagine what kids in Vietnam saw. 795 00:42:02,687 --> 00:42:04,527 You know, like, they went through a lot worse." 796 00:42:06,858 --> 00:42:09,402 Back then you didn't really discuss 797 00:42:09,486 --> 00:42:11,988 your emotions or anything. 798 00:42:12,072 --> 00:42:15,033 He always taught us to be men. 799 00:42:15,116 --> 00:42:17,994 And so I just buried it. Compartmentalized. 800 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:23,625 You know, you can't be a cry baby. 801 00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:41,185 Not only did we search the woods 802 00:42:41,268 --> 00:42:43,144 behind the homes across the street, 803 00:42:43,228 --> 00:42:45,272 but we had a condo development 804 00:42:45,355 --> 00:42:47,023 that were just being built at that time, 805 00:42:47,107 --> 00:42:50,652 and you're talking a couple hundred units. 806 00:42:50,735 --> 00:42:53,655 You just don't know what you were going to run into, 807 00:42:53,738 --> 00:42:58,994 if in fact, you found him or, you know, other people with him. 808 00:42:59,077 --> 00:43:00,745 You have to have that little sense of fear 809 00:43:00,829 --> 00:43:03,248 just to get the adrenaline going a little bit, 810 00:43:03,331 --> 00:43:05,333 you know, and to help you do your job better. 811 00:43:05,417 --> 00:43:06,710 So it was pretty intense. 812 00:43:11,214 --> 00:43:13,300 We don't know if we have a teenager 813 00:43:13,383 --> 00:43:15,844 or young boy that is out of his mind 814 00:43:15,927 --> 00:43:18,138 somewhere with a knife doing something, 815 00:43:18,221 --> 00:43:20,390 or we don't know if he hurt himself or... 816 00:43:20,473 --> 00:43:22,073 you know, we don't know much of anything. 817 00:43:23,601 --> 00:43:25,520 Was he gonna hurt neighbors? 818 00:43:25,603 --> 00:43:27,689 What was he gonna do? You know, where was he? 819 00:43:29,691 --> 00:43:31,901 What happened? Was anybody else there? 820 00:43:31,985 --> 00:43:33,403 I mean, at that point, you don't know. 821 00:43:33,486 --> 00:43:35,447 Was there other people involved? 822 00:43:35,530 --> 00:43:37,282 I mean, he could be another homicide victim, 823 00:43:37,365 --> 00:43:38,950 for all we know at that point in time. 824 00:43:39,034 --> 00:43:40,660 Was there a fight? 825 00:43:40,744 --> 00:43:42,246 Did the kid run because he saw something? 826 00:43:42,329 --> 00:43:44,372 Don't know. 827 00:43:44,456 --> 00:43:46,666 He's the missing link. 828 00:43:46,750 --> 00:43:48,335 He's the one that will have answers. 60412

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