All language subtitles for Marina Abramovic - The Artist Is Present (2012) Matthew Akers

Take, take, take, take, take.

Marina, Marina, up.

Wow, this looks so beautiful.

Wow.

Everybody move around into position.

Time to start.

Brock, let's go closer to Marina.

You know what is interesting?

After 40 years of people thinking you're
insane and you should be put in mental

hospital.

You finally actually get all the
acknowledgement.

It takes such a long time to take it
seriously.

There, right there, right there. Don't
move anything.

Right there.

It's a long way.

Welcome to the arts portion of our
program. Kind of the highbrow part. In

it's the Museum of Modern Art Museum
that we're talking about.

Yeah, but it might raise your eyebrows
is what this one might do.

In addition to being highbrow. You have
to decide if it's highbrow. Now, Monica

Wallace would just see it. There are
three pieces in particular that are new.

Here's the first one.

It's called In Ponderabilia by artist
Marina Abramovic.

The name of the artist Marina? Marina.
What was her last name?

Don't know.

Abramovic. Oh, okay. Like, you know, the
Eastern European.

Marina Abramovic.

I want whatever packs you.

My mother dressed me as the devil when I
was four years old for the little

party. My first party ever.

Everybody was dressed very happy.

You know, princesses and cowboys.

And I was looking so miserable.

Really, little kid with a very sad black
devil dress with the two horns.

I had no idea why she dressed me as the
devil.

I think that marked my life.

So we recreated the singers.

Only six years later.

I mean, after the show, I have to really
put more attention to the text of my

life, so I have to really look for it.
If I put advertising like that, you

that will attract some guys?

I mean, to, like, true artists on the
top of their career, looking for the

single male.

So basically, you're looking in many
marinas.

You look in the marina who is product of
the two partisan parents, two

national heroes, no limits, willpower,
any aim you put in the front of her.

And then right next to this one, you
have the other one who is like a little

girl who, you know, mother never give
her enough love.

very vulnerable and unbelievably
disappointed and sad.

And then it's another one who have this
kind of spiritual wisdom and can go

above all that.

And this is actually my favorite one.

You have to make room. Oh, he's there.
Hello?

We can, we can... Okay.

Now we have to start.

Yeah, yeah. Let's go forward. Okay.

I'm going back to here. Yeah, yeah.

Here I have ten pieces of that.

Which is plenty.

Yeah, but it's whether they work.

I love your name. August is amazing.

Do you have a brother, September?

No, but who is writing the text?

That would be Klaus.

That would be Klaus.

All right.

I'll just be putting it on the wall.

Oh, that's great. I like time.

And I like Russian.

But we can try together.

Okay.

All right. It's too red.

Well, we talked about making it black
and white yesterday.

Yeah. You know, there will be color,
actually.

One time in my life, I would like to
show everything what it takes you to

art and to be an artist. How much
correspondence, how much emails, how

faxes, how much letters, how much plane
tickets, how much... All the structure

is just enormous.

What is actually physical work, which is
not to do with creativity, but just

administration.

Marina Branovic is office.

Hey. In MoMA, I have all six floors.
Wow.

It's a big deal, I tell you. It's a big
deal. I feel pain in my back already

just to think about. So it's that
chronological. So this is the beginning,

know. It's the beginning of my early
work. You know, this work is called

Artist's Present. So only it's...
Focusing on performance where artist is

literally present. Doesn't include my
transitory objects, doesn't include my

sound pieces, doesn't include my objects
with crystals. Just performance, pure

performance. It's all about performance.

If we have the video, we don't show
anything except video, you know. It's

radical. So for me, it's like, that's
why this show in MoMA is historical for

me, important to really put the kind of
things in the right place.

Because performance has never been a
regular form of art. It's been an

alternative since I was born. So I want
it really to be a real form of art and a

respect before I die.

So let's start with the

exhibition. You are re -performing your
own performances?

You're making one new piece?

Just one new piece. The artist is
present and all the rest of the people

-performing.

my um yeah and so i think your first
performance was also in the

museum in in belgrade is that uh kind of
no it's true but what kind of venues

and marina the element of

sound is imminent in relation in
movement where you are driving a van

square for 16 hours and shouting numbers
through a megaphone. You substituted

your persona with that of a prostitute.

And rhythm two, where you took
psychoactive drugs to challenge social

towards female mental illness. And
rhythm five, where you lay inside a

five -pointed star set on fire and then
fainted from the lack of oxygen.

And now these pieces, you have often
been threatened and threatened your own

body and I know you're probably sick of
these questions, but I just want to

touch on it briefly before we can move
on. There's only one question I didn't

hear since 10 years.

Why is this art?

This was the main question since I
started performing with people asking me

I could not take it. And now actually
I'm missing it. Nobody asks me why it's

not art. Because maybe it's my age. So
they kind of get it finally or they just

pretend they get it. If you're...

Alternative when you're young, when
you're 18 and 19 and 20 and you're still

alternative with 29 and you're
alternative with the 30 and you're

with the 40 and you're alternative with
the 50. But excuse me, I'm 63.

I don't want to be alternative anymore.

Many people think of her as the
grandmother of performance art.

Performance emerged in the 60s as a
result of a challenge to painting.

Whatever it was, it was not something
you hung on the wall.

It's a form of art where

The medium is the body.

In the case of Marina, she used the
human body to make statements that can

sometimes be quite violent, can
sometimes be provocative.

She is directly and boldly challenging
an audience.

What is at the heart of her artwork?

is the shared experience of the audience
and the performer.

Many of Marina's works are
interventions.

When she did Rhythm Zero in Naples with
the objects and people could use the

objects against her, that is like the
Stanford experiment, right? That's kind

a scientific experiment that reveals
human nature.

But what is art other than revealing
human nature?

It's like a murder mystery. It's like a
Hitchcock. Is he going to get murdered?

There the gun is.

What's going to happen? Who's walking
in? Who's walking out?

The veneer of civilization is very thin.

And what's absolutely terrifying is how
quickly a group of people will become

bestial if you give them permission to
do so.

And some of...

Marina's early performances were about
that.

It's playing with that edge of the knife
that allows her to

create the intensity of the performances
that make them transcendent.

Basically, the workshop called Clean the
House, and it's preparation for the

show in MoMA.

My generation of artists is not
performing anymore. Maybe two or three

left. And I was thinking, is it my task
to make history straight?

So when I now asked to make a
perspective on the performance work in

really thinking that it would be
important for me to...

let it go also from my own ego and give
five historical pieces to other younger

artists to be re -performed.

So now they're coming.

I'm cooking the soup.

She said something like, we're not going
to eat or speak for three days. She's

like, you'll hate me at the time, but
you'll love me forever after and do

whatever I want.

She wants us to fast for three days, and
she's mentioned some other

exercises that we'll be doing.

Like, I'm going with my instincts on
this, and...

It feels right to trust her.

So you can make your last phone call.

Last phone call.

You know, you'll be free for three days.
It's amazing.

So what's happening?

We'll let you know later. Okay, it
doesn't matter.

This will be different.

They can take this experience and they
do everything they want with their own

life.

But probably they'll hate me anyway.

At least in the beginning.

It's a very simple structure, you know.
And the whole idea is... to slow down to

slow down with your body and your mind
in the zero gravity if it's possible so

you know the first ritual will be to
wake up and do some simple exercises

like a kind of you know little jumping
and little bit of the energy releasing i

will show to you it's very simple and
then we go to the river anybody who have

problem with nudity please take a
swimming suit one bikini one side two

whatever you want or naked i don't care
the purpose of this whole thing is that

they really have to perform three
months, which is a very big kind of

obligation.

So they have to create their own
charismatic space.

And for that, you have to consider some
training.

The proposition here is to empty
yourself.

Be able to be in the present time.

Put your mind here and now.

And then something emotional opens.

And that's what we are looking for in
this work.

In performance, you have to have a
mortal approach.

It's a kind of direct energy dialogue
with the public and the performer.

And if you are performing in that way,
that you are there, it is 100%.

Their emotional moment arrives to
everybody.

There's no way out. Everybody feels it.

Artists have to be warriors, have to
have this determination, and have to

the stamina to conquer not just new
territory, but also to conquer himself

and his weaknesses.

It doesn't matter what kind of work
you're doing as an artist.

The most important is from which state
of mind you're doing what you're doing.

And performance is all about state of
mind.

Wait and see.

Marina Abramovich, the artist at
present, means.

that from March 9th to May 31st,
whenever you enter the museum during

hours, it may be at 9 .30 in the morning
or at 5 in the afternoon, she will be

present.

How I imagine artists present in Atrium,
I actually imagine more like a kind of

film set.

There is a huge square of light.

Just a square, you know, like lost in
translation in some way.

In the middle of that square, it's
placed the table and two chairs.

It's so simple. It's like nothing there.
If it's an artist sitting like a

mountain, you know, I want to be just
like a rock there. Only three months.

And looking you in the eyes, you're
talking three months.

Every single day, if you are performing
three months, it's really performance

become life itself.

People don't understand that the hardest
thing is to actually do something which

is part of nothing.

It's demanding all of you, because there
is no story anymore to tell. There's no

object to hide behind.

There's nothing. There's just your pure
presence. You have to rely on your own

energy and nothing else.

Seven and a half hours, six days a week,
motionless.

I have nothing to say.

No comment.

All your respect.

I could imagine it being unbearable to
sit there.

She's gonna try.

I don't know whether it's gonna work.

When she had this idea, I thought, oh
God, she's gonna kill herself.

And I thought, Marina, I don't know if I
want to have the responsibility of

having... given you the permission to do
that.

Think about it for two days.

And then she called me the next morning.
She said, I can do that.

In the moment that Klaus Wieselbach came
with the title of the show, Art is

Present, it was like a destiny clicked,
like right away. Art is Present.

There's no any way out.

I wanted to show you. I mean, isn't it
fantastic?

No one will ever see it.

and it's nothing to do with the museum
will not get flooded for sure i mean

maybe i don't use it at all i just have
to i'm very much counting on you never

using it you promised no because it's
like the whole idea about you know

security men don't get it so i think it
doesn't want it to to deal with reality

you know i think that's fine i think
that's a great solution I have no idea

I have to do harder and harder. It's
like something in me. You know, I can

perfectly make a retrospective, 36
people re -performing my piece. We have

wonderful dinner, celebration, go home
and work is done.

But why I have to do this? This is my
cross I'm carrying. It's insane.

So God helped me to finish this one.

When you're watching a Marina Abramovich
performance, you are engaging with her

physical presence, which is very
striking.

The clear evidence that she has a lot of
physical stamina and strength, which

the public and its presence gives her.

But clearly, physically, it's innate.
She can take sitting still or doing very

little or whatever she's doing in the
performance.

for long periods of time, which most
people cannot.

So my both parents are national heroes
from the seat of time, you know, in the

Second World War in ex -Yugoslavia.

I had such a terrible...

real control at home, which I hated.

Everything was like discipline,
schedule.

I was trained to be a soldier,
literally.

My mother would even wake me in the
middle of the night and my bed was not

straight because I'm sleeping too messy.

I mean, that kind of insanity.

There was no love there, you know. I
never remember my mother kissing me or

holding me in any possible way.

And much later in my life when I asked
her, but why, you know, you never kissed

me, she was so surprised at the
question. She said, of course I didn't

not to spoil you.

And it really didn't spoil me. But on
the other side, it was the grandmother

was loving and always there, and she was
spiritual and spending all the time in

the church.

And I was with her as a child because
both of them were doing political career

and never had time for me.

So there's a kind of strange mixture
between spirituality and that communist

discipline. Looking now back, it was
very important to me. And actually, this

what makes me what I am now.

Welcome to Florence.

I went to this bathroom in the airport
and there was a fantastic discovery.

There are two pages with illustrations
how to wash the hands by water and

soap.

Today we are here for the important

Lorenzo Magnifico Award to Marina
Abramovich.

Thank you.

Thank you very much. And now,

you know, I was thinking a lot to give a
lecture, and I don't feel in this

occasion of getting prized to give a
lecture. I would like to actually have

dialogue with the public. And before I
do this, I would like to read you my

manifest.

So my manifest, I think I wrote really
out of my heart and this also

is actually funny in the same time, but
it's true.

An artist should not lie to himself or
to others.

An artist should not steal ideas from
the other artist.

An artist should not compromise for
themselves or in regard to to the art

market.

An artist should not kill another human
being.

An artist should not make themselves
into an idol.

An artist's relation to his love life.

No, love life.

Love. Amore.

Chiedo scusa.

An artist should avoid falling in love
with another artist. An artist should

avoid falling in love with another
artist.

An artist should avoid falling in love
with another artist.

The very first

moment we met was when she came to
Amsterdam. She was to do a performance.

I met her just before and said, well,
the performance was called Thomas Lips.

It came down to that she would cut a
pentagon in her stomach with a razor

and she would whip herself and say, no,
no, maybe not.

Afterwards, I started nursing her wound.

I didn't lick her wound, but I cared for
the wound and cleaned it and, you know,

put something on it.

And I think that was the crucial point.

By the time we met, there was
immediately a fascination, type -wise,

-wise, personality -wise, the work we
have been doing, singly, she and me.

You know, there was a recognition like
you had found a lost brother or a lost

sister or something like this.

Plus that we were born on the same day,
November the 30th, both Sagittarius,

obvious.

You know, destiny brought us together.

I really loved him. I mean, loved him
like more than myself.

And for me, when we started working
together, it was forever.

I was thinking, this is the
relationship, this is work, and it would

Like two twins connected with the body
together and soul.

We were lovers, we were friends, we were
performers, all at once.

And our love was always on top of it.

I think Marina and Ulay's relationship
is one of the great love stories.

Marina is very hardcore and she had met
someone who was equally prepared to go

to any length for his art.

And that must have impressed her
enormously because she had met her

When Marina and Ulay came together and
started the group of works known as the

Relation Works, there had been nothing
like it in performance before.

We would engage our bodies in a
confrontational way.

We wanted to get to the point about male
-female conflict, traumatic experiences

about a relation.

Afterwards, often we were black and
blue, but it didn't hurt.

That was as intensive and as heavy, as
powerful as other people's whole life

again.

We went through so many stages, falling
in love, having this relation of 12

years. Now we're talking 23 full years
that we are able, first time ever, to be

under the same roof.

Well, I should be here at two the first.

Time that will lie comes in this
specific apartment in New York. Never

never upstate.

They've been separated since many years,
so we are getting together to talk

about it.

And I have no idea what will come out,
but it will be for sure interesting, for

sure.

Hello.

How are you doing?

I'm doing fine.

She's been the psychoanalyst.

Dr. Glimor, very special lady.

Really strict.

I like strict.

I mean, she doesn't have uniform, but
almost.

So she told me emotionally, I'm not
doing so bad.

I should go more into my childhood, look
into the patterns, not to repeat for

the next relationship.

I told her about Ulay, and she think
maybe it's going to be easy, maybe not,

whole thing. You know, we don't know.

Okay, let me have a glass of water.

We both are in a third act of our life.

There's no other moment, you know, to
get closer and somehow forgive each

to really kind of peacefully find, okay,
it was really horrible and painful and

hateful and everything else together,
but it was creative in the same time,

we should just forgive each other.

I think I still love her.

I can live with it. I'm happy I do,
rather than hating her.

Yeah, I think up in the office, isn't
it? Yes. And you're the one who sends

emails. David is a young artist and good
one, too, from Torino.

Davide. Yeah, not Davide, Davide.

Davide.

How are you doing?

I'm doing fine. Look at me.

Totally. If I can be of help, pleasure.

If I can do something for pleasure,
depends what, but, you know, speaking

yeah, of course.

I can do only two things.

Help will be good.

It's an amazing place, Davide. Are you
often here, Davide?

Yes, pretty often.

Yeah, I would try to do the same.

Maybe she still loves me. I don't know.

We will figure out tomorrow something.

Tomorrow after tomorrow.

And maybe put a finger on her teeth.

Put a finger on her teeth?

Yeah, that means to make something
sensitive.

Yeah.

Nina, are you nervous about the show at
the moment, or are you not nervous?

Incredibly. I'm always nervous even if I
give a speech.

I sit in the toilet for days.

If I'm not nervous, then I'm nervous,
but I'm not nervous.

And when you're sitting in the chair,
are you going to move on the chair a

little bit, leaning backwards and
forwards, or are you planning on staying

the exact same position?

In the exact same position, not moving.

And just looking straight, what are you
looking at like that?

Anybody who sits in front of me.

Marina seduces everybody she ever meets.

But that's not the case for me because I
went through that process and now we

are divorced.

We are great friends, but we are
divorced. So she would never try to

We're divorced.

With Marina, I always try to subtract
the performer from the person I have a

working relationship with.

And I try to deal with her as if she was
a sculptor. I look at the work as if it

was an object.

I try to be incredibly matter -of -fact
with her because I don't want her

performance persona to get into the way.

Because with Marina, she's never not
performing.

Marina, you don't need this?

Are you sure?

I can teach you one that you can also
do. It's fun.

Yeah, you do.

I met recently somebody that so many
people told me I could meet, I could

And that just happened in MoMA. And so
we came here and had a little drink.

And it's quite interesting, you know,
guy. He's a magician, David Blaine.

He was thinking we can maybe do
something during my...

You know, there's always those axes in
the glass in case of emergency, you

So I was thinking if somehow I got into
using this alcohol, this substance that

she has, and gagging her face with it,
and people would think it was pretty

strange, and then breaking the glass
open and then taking an axe and just

gutting her.

And then there come emergency.

They put blankets over me, blood all
over the place, and, you know, the

come, take him to prison. She is laying
there.

And the whole exhibition is over.

And people don't know what happened. It
was accident, not accident.

Questioning, you know, maybe reality is
not reality.

And I'll just hack her violently.

Have you done this before?

No.

If I do it twice, it's an illusion.

But when you do it one time, it's crazy.

I mean, the amazing thing is, Maria,
that it's going to be in at MoMA.

Huh? Yeah. Yeah.

Those people are the perfect people to
do it to.

Absolutely. Yeah.

What do you really think?

I think it's a really bad idea.

Why? Because he's a really interesting
guy, and he does amazing things.

But the fact of the matter is, you know,
some people culturally call people like

that magicians, but I'm sure he would
prefer to be called an illusionist.

And that really tells you all you need
to know. Your work doesn't have anything

to do with illusionism. It's all real.

And to make the connection between those
two bodies of work in MoMA on the

occasion of the most important show
you've made to date in your career would

a disaster.

I think it's completely the wrong thing
to do. Totally wrong. I would oppose it

with every fibre of my being.

How about that?

Done. You're right.

We work with nine galleries now.

And now Marine is such a giant.

But Sean is the one that came when no
one wanted to deal with all the blurry

problems of having a performer artist in
a gallery context.

Well obviously performance is by its
very nature ephemeral. So what we did

that we very carefully selected one
photograph to represent each

And then we made those into editions and
we sold them.

And we did them in very small editions.

You have to remember this is 20 odd
years ago. So we were selling them for

between $2 ,000 and $5 ,000 each.

And now, you know, they're very sought
after. And if you could find them, they

would be between $25 ,000 and $50 ,000
each. The model that we created for

Marina and the way that we created the
market for her has become something of a

standard that other people have looked
at.

In the 70s, with Ulay, we took such a
radical decision to just live in the

We don't need to pay telephone bills,
electricity bills, rent bills, and we

didn't have no money at all, but we
didn't want to do anything else but

performing. Igor, this is the van where
I live.

I live all this time, and two days ago
you said how cute, and I said cute is

when it's in a museum, but it was a
tough life. It was not cute at all.

I didn't see this car for more than 30
years. And when I arrived in the museum,

it hit me completely unexpected, like in
my stomach.

It was something that, like, entire past
life just rushed into me.

We have to go in the countryside.

We have to live with shepherds, milk the
goats. We have to go with an empty

bottle with mineral water and borrow
gasoline on the station.

I knew every shower in every gas station
in Europe.

Anyway, I'm very sentimental about this
man.

Oh, God, it really breaks my heart,
looking at this car inside, and how,

how much belief and hope and innocence
our life, you know, was dealing with in

that time. This is incredible happy time
of my life in this place.

It was everything I always wanted, the
man I love.

And work together and be radical and not
making any compromise.

Forever.

Two of us and the dog and the universe.

Show me that incredible road from living
there to here.

It's been a long way.

I have to go and put the show together.

I have no time.

Marina was knitting sweaters for the
both of us.

I was repairing the car. I drove the car
all the time. Marina couldn't drive.

So it was really basic, basic, basic,
basic, like modern nomads.

But it was the best time.

And from that, we got a lot of energy
and a lot of power.

Straight head. Red light, stop.

Oh.

Green light, go.

Let's stop right here somewhere, because
I would like to drive now.

It's my historical moment. I'm going to
drive you. First time in my life.

I'm willing to see if I find you.

Why? Will I?

They will never think you'll come to
this point.

Ever. Do we have light?

To the right.

No, do I have a light?

Yeah, the light is on.

Oh, that's great. I put the light on
already.

Is the brake down or brake is up?

Brake is up. Now it's going to happen.
Thank you. I knew something was wrong.

Let's go.

Let's ride.

You're going to be in my hands now.

Yeah, I was afraid so.

Right, a little more.

A little more.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go, go, go, go. It's
perfect.

It's perfect.

Just perfect.

Go, perfect.

A warm meter you can go on. Oh, we have
to go through this door.

Well, I'm a little shaky, but I'm, you
know, shaken but very much taken.

Okay, from one to ten, Ulay, what do you
think?

Five. More.

More. Okay, we go for seven and a half.
No, we go for seven.

Seven is a good number.

Great.

Well done.

Well done.

Yeah,

you work like hell. That's the only
thing I've done.

That's true. I wish to make a zucchini
sauce with this pasta.

Our relation was very much to do with a
really male -female kind of separation

in the duties. He would do everything
with his external world, you know,

grants, finding the money, going to the
bank.

And I would do cleaning, washing, taking
care of the dog.

And I remember when we split, I didn't
have a bank account. I have no idea how

that all worked.

It took me a long time to learn
everything from the zero.

You have an opener.

Yes.

After an hour.

more simplistic life.

She became very ambitious, both in the
work and in the manifestation of her

ambition, meaning image and wealth.

And I maybe went in a more stable,
straight line after separation.

And she climbed this huge mountain with
a lot of success.

Maybe it sounds strange, but I don't
have the time to do this effort to make

this.

possible for myself.

But anyhow, I don't have to make it
possible for myself. I'm just going to

her.

There are not so many artists,

I believe, who are working so hard like
Marina does.

But she is always very, very elegant.

And I look like a worker in the field.
Of course I'm a worker in the field of

art. But I look like a worker, but I do
much less work.

So, you know what I mean.

I'm just lazy.

Nightly Crossing consisted of a man and
a woman sitting opposite each other on

two chairs, sitting motionless, silent
fasting,

where it mainly was about tremendous
dislikes in Western society.

Inactivity, inaction is discredited.

Silence is discredited, and fasting is
discredited.

So these are the three things which
could upset people pretty much,

when you went for 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10,
11, 12.

13, 14, 15, 16 days inactive, silent,
farting,

absolutely motionless, which is almost
impossible.

We did nightly crossing for 90 days, non
-consecutive days, once and stood up.

I had enough.

A woman can fit better than a man
because of anatomy.

And I got up after 13 or 14 days because
my ribs were pushing so hard on

my spleen that I went to the hospital
and they say, well, you should stop

fasting.

I lost then already 24 pounds.

So that was just over the limit, I
think, on my part once.

One of the reasons that he said that he
could not sit, he was so skinny that he

was sitting on his bones and was just
penetrating through his skin. But okay,

yogi guys do the same, but he didn't. So
anyway, and then he said, you have to

stand up because performance can't be
without me.

And I didn't see the reason.

That's why in this night, I'm
continuous.

I'm continuous, but there is empty
chair.

and never have had a relation with a
woman, neither with a man, of such a

degree of symbiotic quality for 12 years
while we were burning up.

The Marina Ulay collaboration in a
simple, direct and profound way

expressed

the male -female dynamic, and then
reaches this kind of epic conclusion

walk on the Great Wall of China called
The Lovers.

It's beyond operatic in its proportion.

The Lovers, in which Marina and Ulay
walked the Great Wall of China, was an

epic.

The three -month process... of walking
towards each other.

Very simple, really pared down, and
extraordinary in its clarity.

This was the last of their relation
works.

And of course, the way the Great Walk
ended was with their splitting up.

We, very soon, we become this great art
couple when everybody was projecting

like a perfect image.

In reality, he was not happy with his
position. And somehow, the more better

pieces we've been doing in the
performance, the worse our relation will

private.

And later on, his interest was different
than my interest. And he was really

kind of experiencing life, go for
drinking, go for the drugs. And then he

unfaithful, which was very hard for me.

We were monogamous till a certain point
when the tightness of that

ideology started to unravel, started to

disintegrate a little bit.

Then she had at the same time a sexual
adventure with somebody like I had.

The same time.

Except she did it with a friend of ours.
I didn't.

Shouldn't have said that.

It took us about eight years of
negotiations to get permission to walk

Chinese Wall. And during the
negotiations, many times you have to

China. And she was a translator.

And when we finished the Chinese Wall,
he told me that she was pregnant.

And he asked me what I should do. I
said, what you should do?

You know, I leave and you do whatever
you want.

So they married.

It is like, you know, like it began.

It ended like it began. It began like
this and it ended like this.

That's all.

After I quit with Ulay, it was the most
dramatic moment of my life.

I remember writing in my diary, I was
40, I was...

fat, ugly, and unwanted.

And I said, God, I lost men I love, and
I lost my work, because it was working

together. There was nothing there. It
was empty.

And I was like, new beginning, or I'm
going to totally, you know, go down and

destroy myself in depression.

And this was the moment that I went,
first time, had some money in Paris, and

bought first designer clothes.

And I felt... It's all good. I went to
hairdresser.

I went to do pedicure, manicure.

I was like, wow.

Wow. What is the price of this kind of
jacket? I mean, it's unpayable. You

pay. The price?

The price of a couture, they start from
8 ,000 to, can go to 200, 300, 400 ,000

euros. Depends.

It depends on the pieces.

I've done all this stuff. You know, I
made all this work.

I'm fine. Why not feel good and want it
again?

And then I really say, oh, God, I really
love fashion. And it was the kind of

secret desire.

I mean, it looks amazing.

What do you think? Really? Wow.

Being a performance artist in the 70s to
mid -80s is poverty.

Point. Who stopped?

Bye -bye extreme.

After we broke up... She got into
theater productions because there was

I mean, the new works of her are highly
formalist, aesthetic.

So she clearly had made a step to the
theater world.

Very much staged.

with theatrical touch to it.

Marina is a much more theatrical, a much
more emotional, a much more dramatic

artist than the show throws.

The risk at the MoMA exhibition will be
how far it

goes into being theatrical.

Marina often says there's a difference.

When you perform, you have a knife and
it's your blood.

When you're acting, it's ketchup and you
don't cut yourself.

If we lose that in the MoMA performance,
if it's just a fake knife and ketchup,

then we lost.

I've been in bed six days.

In bed, that's it.

Shit, shit, shit, shit. I didn't leave
this bed for six days now.

I was so desperate. I was taking
everything.

Anything anybody bring me, I take it.

But then I discovered the syrup with
codeine. This is amazing stuff.

I never take drugs, but the codeine
really makes you happy.

I slept like a baby yesterday with a
smile through the whole night on my

Like hideous.

Anyway, there I am.

I think red is very good here because I
always think that red gives strength. So

if I have red collar, red bedsheets, red
shawl, red pyjama, red oranges, I maybe

get better soon.

Okay.

What's my monologue?

We don't have power.

And we don't even have the swords to
play them on anyway.

Or the players.

Sorry, not yet.

There's nothing.

It's nothing. I mean, it's five days
before the show. It looks like there's

show.

Can we start with the rehearsal?

Can we get everybody there?

Please come. Oh,

yes, fine.

Come.

So, can we sit down two seconds? Because
I want to see everybody.

Okay.

Hello. It's so different than our
workshop in the countryside, I tell you.

going through hell.

And you know, one thing is so important
to be open about all this shit, because

it's like I can't pretend now I'm in
this damn shit, but I'm not. And also,

know, I didn't even have a personal
contact with any of you. I have to trust

with my life for this show, for these
three months. There's no other way.

Because it's like, you know, I have to
be really...

I have all my energy to make my own
piece, knowing that everything is fine

upstairs.

Thank you very much for coming to MoMA
tonight.

I'm the curator for Marina Brommer's
retrospective, and I would like to

introduce Marina.

very much to Marina.

I thought we should open the podium for
questions, so one last chance to ask her

something directly, otherwise we have to
wait until June.

I suggest it's too late.

Let's three have three real good
questions.

And at least one personal.

How could we know that before?

Personal question.

You seem happy.

Are you?

Depends. You know, so what I can say, I
just, I'm very happy to tell by myself

because who I can live with to do this
next three months what I want to do.

There's no human being who would stay
with me because I, like in a military

drill, you know, I'm in this real
complete concentration about doing this

months work because it looks like
simple. I'm just in atrium and having

position on the chair.

not like that it's extremely difficult
because you have to really be like a

mountain i want to create some kind of
stillness in the middle of the of the of

the hell and um and for that i have to
be in the right state of mind so i have

to restrict myself with everything and
in the winter when i come out it's going

to be summer because that will be 31st
of may

Marina is one of the most significant
artists of the second part of the 20th

century.

What is so amazing about Marina is that
she really invents situations where

nobody has been yet.

Her practice is extreme.

In New York, tens if not hundreds of
thousands of people will be invited

to make an experience they've never made
before.

MoMA is the most significant context in
the world for any living artist to make

a show.

I really see the chance that the
performance art become mainstream art.

And with this kind of show in the Museum
of Modern Art that never happened

before, it's the big chance.

That incredible feeling of
responsibility.

for performance in general.

It's not just for myself.

The

inability

to keep going, the potential of giving
up, will become part of the performance

if it occurs.

There could be a fiasco.

I mean, there are no rules.

The artist is present is a hugely
courageous piece because it's a piece

fail

That was five years living.

Five years living.

Isn't it great?

That's the other one.

They are simultaneous.

Wow.

Now Ulay is not there. Now there is no
life partner.

Now the audience is, in quotes, her
lover.

You've been a very bad girl.

Well, that was Beyonce in a new video
with Lady Gaga. And Sandy Rios does not

like Lady Gaga's latest video.

This should be outlawed. It should be
banned.

Personally, there is a limit to what we
should tolerate.

You know, I find it interesting because
you've got this Lady Gaga video out now.

And literally, in today's New York Post,
there's an article about this exhibit

at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

Where daring patrons squeeze through two
live nude performers, alternating

couples opposite and same sex, who stand
in a narrow doorway of the new exhibit,

which is by some Yugoslavian -born
provocateur. As you listen to the sound

this woman's constant guttural screaming
and moaning.

That, they say, is art. And it's at
MoMA.

images, like four images from the
exhibition.

You know, we're not trying to stop the
coverage. We're just not going to have a

circus going on inside.

Friday we had some weirdos, but we were
expecting it.

I think some people are starting to
understand that it's possibly a stage,

possibly an important window.

The problem of the day was that we
established a signal of emergency for

So if she raised her hand, it could mean
many things, but essentially it means,

please ask the person who is sitting
with me to leave for some reason.

i don't feel comfortable i'm scared i
don't feel well many different reasons

yeah this thing that is like sort of
cleaning the cleaning the thing and

then boom like it reconnects and it's
only for you so each and everyone had

a clean unique and personal contact with
marina boom like a magnet

What is so beautiful about the MoMA
performance, she's treating actually

human being she has encountered with the
same attention and same respect. That's

pretty shocking.

And some people are shocked by this, and
some people anyway think they deserve

this attention, and they are finally
where they should be.

And others fall in love with her.

There's so many different reasons why
people come to sit in front of me.

Some of them, they're angry. Some of
them, they're curious.

Some of them just want to know what
happened.

Some of them, they're really open, and
you feel incredible pain.

How many people have so much pain?

When they're sitting in front of me,
it's not about me anymore.

It's very soon.

I'm just a mirror of their own self.

Somebody told me the other day that for
most masterpieces, people stand in front

of it for 30 seconds.

Mona Lisa, 30 seconds.

People come and sit here all day.

The world is moving so fast now.

People barely have an attention span at
all.

She slows everybody's brain down.

She... She asks us to stay there for
quite a length of time, which we're not

used to doing.

She transforms us as a result.

Marina is an artist that visualizes time
using her body.

in the space with the audience.

By the mere duration she brings time in
as a weight.

It's a weight on the performer's
shoulders.

Taking a piece out of the performer's
life has a value.

Time is not an ephemeral just rushing
by.

Just imagine time as an unbearably large
object you cannot move

and you are caught in.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

We open at 10 .30 tomorrow.

My God. No, no, no. Come back tomorrow.

Be with me. Come back tomorrow, okay?

You'll give me a chance?

When you come back tomorrow, we'll talk
about it.

You'll give me a chance? No, I'm not
giving you a chance. We'll talk about it

tomorrow. You said so. No, I didn't say
so. I've got hair. I've got my witness.

Ladies, let's move.

You okay?

You want me to get a wheelchair?

No, no, no.

Give me a couple of seconds.

Okay. I'm putting on the ground along.

Thank you.

This is about limits.

Even for me.

I was thinking it was a mistake.

Incredibly, I was expecting another
three hours.

I was thinking it was so short.

I don't know.

Today?

Yeah. I saw her having pain. I saw and
heard the guards saying that they were

worried. So I say, if you think you ruin
your health, if you think you damage

your body, then I offer you officially
now to end the performance.

So painful.

Okay. She just said, no, it would never
be an option. So she was like, not even

considering it, not even listening to
the end of my sentence. She was just

saying, no, I would never, never
consider this.

There is pain, but the pain is like a
kind of keeping secrets.

The moment you really go through the
door of pain, you enter to another state

mind.

The feeling of beauty and unconditional
love and this feeling of there is no

kind of border between your body and
environment.

And you start having this incredible
feeling of lightness.

and harmony with yourself, something
becomes like a holy. I can't explain.

And that other state of mind is exactly
what the public starts feeling that

something is different.

Performance is all about state of mind.

The public is like a dog.

They can feel insecurity.

They can feel fear. They can feel you're
not there.

So the idea is how you can bring the
performer and the audience in the same

state of consciousness here and now.

It's just a little glue to keep it in
position

It's so interesting that I could not do
without table in the first two months. I

need to have a structure. I need to have
the table. And the table has to get

there until I really got to the point
that I actually don't need the table.

And once the table is removed, it's so
much more direct. How do you feel about

it? What do you think is the difference?

The difference is that from a security
point of view, there's no buffer between

two of them.

You know, like if somebody is going to
do something, there's nothing preventing

someone from doing something, you know.
That's the only thing I feel, but we're

just going to instruct everyone,
everyone that has to sit in front of her

you cannot move, touch, hug, or do
anything.

She makes herself so much more
vulnerable. It's so much more direct.

There's no obstacle between her and the
audience.

So she was right.

Priest doesn't need the cross.

Nine, ten.

Three, two.

We're almost done.

You said it in April, too.

These are details you cannot grab a few
minutes here and there.

A few minutes. Watch one mom. A few
minutes.

One week here, one week there.

You bastard.

They need to concentrate on the details.

You need to be careful.

I stand in the line several days and I
didn't get it in there. Yeah. Yeah.

Yesterday I was there at five in the
morning. I didn't, I didn't make it very

now at the end, it's very competitive.

People camping out all night and
waiting.

It throws open the whole kind of rock
star question, performance star, and

basically a groupie question.

You know, I think what's fantastically
interesting about her work and this work

is the blank slate aspect of it. What it
brings out in everyone from the art

world, people that claim they know the
work very well, people that are part of

this vocabulary and this language, and
then...

outright strangers and people that come
in and go, well, why is she doing this?

And that's endlessly interesting because
what you're really seeing is this giant

canvas also of projections.

Marina's connection to the audience
comes out of this extraordinary lack

she feels or she felt as a child.

She desires to be loved. She desires to
be needed.

Marina does have the experience.

that she needs the audience like air to
breathe.

That's the gasoline she's running on.

She lives for her art, she lives for the
audience.

When I met her, I thought, oh God, she's
in love with me.

And it took me a while.

to understand that she is in love with
the world.

So it's not personal.

Don't take it personal. I'm in love with
the world. I'm not in love only with

you.

I realize she is repeating this
misunderstanding with every single

atrium.

I don't know if the public idolizes me.

It's their own thing, how they project,
but it's not my aim.

It's like, you know, if you come to a
certain point of your career, you are

idolized, you have the money, and you
are famous, but this is not the aim of

art. It's just a side effect.

It's like a bee product.

I love bee products.

He plays around and you're kind of aware
of him, but the connection with Marina

is so strong that it doesn't... It
really pushes it away.

Do you see acting in the film?

No, but it's that... I mean, if you say
it's acting, it's... The only thing

maybe that's similar is that there are
people watching. The sacrifice of

for a performance.

It seems that that's always involved in
acting.

Are you an actor?

Yeah. Okay. You have that presence.

Thank you.

She told me that 750 ,000 people saw the
show.

It's like a million.

I feel that we should prolong it for
some month more so we can get the

Let's go, let's go, let's go. Is this
from the cook?

The cook? Yes, yes.

Who is this good -looking Asian man?

We are close

to the end.

Actually, I saw Marina's exhibit the
first time. I'm really inspired to get

performance art, to make my own
performance art, and to do it. And I

like... Being here is actually like kind
of a piece in itself, like dedicating

this much commitment to her.

We are there, kids.

Almost there.

Next time, I'm in the country.

Do you have a number?

I wish I had a number, but I don't have
one.

I came all the way from Australia to see
Marina.

Do you need a number?

I was sad and happy all together.

They are up to sit. They just get out of
the museum and sit in front until the

morning.

My God, this is amazing. This is the
last day, you know.

I don't think anybody imagines...

This. What time is now?

It's now 10 .15.

Can we do the chase? We can do the
chase.

We already planned it. I know what to
do.

I'll give you a piece of paper, and then
we'll do 15 -minute intervals.

You'll just go out, tap the person on
the shoulder, or tell them the time is

expired. The museum is not going to open
until 10 .30, but we're going to let 40

people in.

If you are not planning to sit in front
of Marina, you don't have to come in

now. You can wait until we open.

Twenty -one times sitting with Maureen,
I hope it's powerful meaning.

Were you expecting to be transformed?

No, it was just when I saw the first
time I came and, you know, wanted to

experience and then, you know,
everything happened.

We have come to sit with Marina before a
Babylon and confess.

Speech is her pure form against pure
form, the reflection of an emptiness

of value.

We have come as the last spectators
before the crucifixion. We sit as

at her table and our nonchalance betrays
her.

And look, it's like it's a matter of
time before firing someone in the face

going to be art.

You're going to sit across from the
audience in silence. There are no

distractions.

Distractions of any sort.

No gestures.

You don't speak to the audience. You
don't move your hand.

That's the matter. You all right?

You nervous?

We've been waiting 16 hours. Okay, well,
your moment's coming up shortly, okay?

All right, I'll let you know. Thank you.

Let's go with it.

Okay,

we need somebody to get in, please.

Come on, let's go. I know, I know, I
know.

We need to get the performance needs to
continue.

Maybe you've got a whip or something.

We need the performance needs to
continue.

Because I think there's maybe still hope
that I'll get upstairs. So I'm like, I

don't know if you guys should be filming
me.

So I would love to just get across to
her. I mean, I didn't know it was a

I didn't realize.

And I would have obeyed the rule if I
had known.

But I wanted it to be spontaneous. I
didn't want anybody to know. I wanted it

be my own thing and special with her.
And I thought in that space, in that

square, you get your own.

It's like the audience is part of the
art, and we bring to it. And I just

to be as vulnerable to her as she makes
herself to everyone else.

I actually think the exhibition is a
self -portrait.

That's her. There she sits.

And she gives it all.

She always talks about the here and now.

But this piece, the title, Marina
Abramovich, the artist's presence at the

-portrait.

She did create a charismatic face.

A little rent in the fabric of the
universe that was wholly her own, that

occupied.

And she did it in a room filled with
many, many people. And many, many people

felt that charismatic space as a
reality.

That's an extraordinary achievement.