All language subtitles for Lesson.Plan.2010_[eng]

MUSIC

When did you first hear about the Wave?

I first heard about the
Wave I think it was about

one and a half years ago.

I heard about the Wave
about two years ago.

I first heard about it in my
civics class, my teacher used it

as an example for the class about social

and human behaviour.

Students were so easily
coerced into doing something

that obviously wasn't right
and that just took over

their lives during school.

In high school I mean in all
school, in life, people

are going to want popularity so bad

that they're going to go
to great lengths for it.

This feeling of a group is
still here and you want

to belong to a group and
if you don't belong

to any group you're kind of a freak

and no-one wants to be a freak, so.

One of the most basic human needs

is the need for social belonging.

And then to satisfy that need
we will step across that line

between good and evil, between
what we know is right

and usually do and what we
know at some level is wrong

and we shouldn't do,
but, but just this once

we're going to step
across because the group

is pushing us in that direction.

The other thing about the human mind

is it has infinite power
to justify any behaviour,

either before doing it to
say here's why we have

to do it, then after you do it, it says

this is why we had to do it.

Human beings are more
rationalising than rational.

That is we like to think
we're rational, we weigh

the alternatives, but in fact
what we are, are people who

can re-explain anything after the fact

to make it fit some good social values.

So it's the perversion
of the incredible power

of the human mind, that
can do almost anything,

all the magical things
the human mind does

in terms of creativity can get perverted

to justify any evil, any transgression.

MUSIC

Mr Ron Jones please.

APPLAUSE

Cam you tell us something
about the Third Wave,

the experiment that you did
I mean when did you realise

that it's going out of control
with the students at School?

For years I tried to hide from
it, avoid it, not discuss it.

It's a responsibility to
really try to understand

what is good and what is evil.

I thought it would be a one day exercise

and it turned out to be
a one week existence

in terror actually.

My ego was inflated and my
sense of power and control

was elevated and I liked
it that's the problem.

But I'm at least aware of that.

I was liking it, the adulation,
the power, the control.

By the fourth day my
wife was saying to me

“you have to stop this
it is very dangerous”.

What Ron Jones as far as I
understood was trying to do

is have American students
of the 60's appreciate

the ease with which similar
students in Germany

became part of Hitler's youth.

Students were giving
away their friendships

for the thought of being
better than their neighbours

or being a part of this thing.

It was scary and frightening
and I just knew

it had to come to an end.

It was learning about history
in the first person.

You had extra points for
coming up with information

about other people.

Just to learn something
about human nature,

about myself and about other people

and to learn that it can happen here.

I stumbled upon a bit of
human nature and psyche.

Why do we give up our
freedom for the thought

of being better than everyone else?

And it's a lesson that we all need to see

and hear and talk about.

I've seen websites where they
want to take the students

and test them all and
see if they're normal

and I've seen websites that
think we were all a bunch...

The websites where they
bought the fictional version

think we were all really truly
nasty kids which we were not.

And I don't really want
to give those people

anything to work with.

I like a little bit of privacy.

I think it's an important
story, I think it was

a fascinating experience
and it's been a long time

since I've been able to talk about it

with any of my friends
who were in the class.

MUSIC

Last time I was at Cubberley was

probably 25 years ago, maybe 30.

I've been sharing this story
with people for almost 40 years.

MUSIC

Palo Alto in 1967 was
already a hi-tech centre,

already a very professional,
middle class, upper middle class

community and you could almost
call it Leave it to Beaver

or the Nelsons they were
mostly intact families,

mostly white middle class,
probably a mix of Catholic,

Protestant and Jewish.

People moved to Palo
Alto during this time

to have their kids come
to school and to be

in the Palo Alto school system.

We grew up and took it for
granted; We had the best

schooling I think probably in the country.

The students were
extraordinarily socially aware;

there was an aliveness
and activity orientation

to be involved with society
and contemporary issues

that I had not encountered prior
to coming to live in Palo Alto.

I was pretty oblivious at
that time, I was not really

connected to my friends,
I mean I was new

in the school and I
was two years younger

than everyone else.

Our school was still
split, we had the Jocks

and we had the Car Club,
just like out of the 50's.

The hippies were just
beginning to come on line,

more in the seniors
than the sophomores.

We had Vietnam going
on and a lot of the kids

were being real active out there.

I remember when JFK
came to town there was

a motorcade and it went by
our school so there was

a lot of very patriotic feeling
but then the Vietnam war

was happening so you
know you were trying

to balance both of those.

Again this all changed
in a matter of months,

weeks and months after the
Wave, but at the time

of the Wave we were mostly
clean cut, well-behaved

15 year old kids with
a charismatic teacher

that we trusted and loved.

When I first met Ron Jones I
thought God he is so young.

He's like one of us.

I hired Ron Jones, he
was exactly the teacher

I needed for a slot
because he was a, he had

a MA from Stanford, he had
good academic credentials

and at Palo Alto that was important.

Cubberley was a great school
because it was closer

to east side and it had an
eclectic kind of population

and it had a tradition for
being a very innovative

school so I, I felt very
fortunate to be there.

Ron would come to work
in just a white shirt

and often times without a tie
and roll up his sleeves.

He did innovative things
too; He was bringing guests

to the class. Very interesting
controversial guests,

he brought in a communist,
he brought in a clansman,

he brought in a member of
the American Nazi party

to talk about white supremacy.

All the way through he was
presenting different sides

of every question, I
remember when we studied

about Vietnam he made us
write 10 arguments for it,

10 arguments against.

He didn't try to be above
you, he tried to, I would say

that Ron had a, Jones had a
capacity to teach with you.

When he said he did simulations
I realised that's a lot

of what he lived for.

He like creating the
experience of being there.

You know I felt like he was trying

to look at the whole picture always.

And trying to get us to look
at the whole picture always

with a lot of heart and a lot of passion.

It was always exciting, one
day you'd go and the desks

were in a row and then the
next day you'd come in

they'd be all spread all over the room.

He had what I called stage
presence; I didn't know

at the time that he was an
actor and a fiction writer.

But he commanded the
front of the classroom

like a skilled actor.

MUSIC

In the 60's lots of people
were experimenting with

experiential teaching, that is
instead of didactic teaching

where a teacher comes in and
says “let me tell you what

I know”, it's creating,
setting situations in which

the students would participate.

I felt if students could
feel something and work

with it that would be
better than simply reading

about it so I tried to develop simulations.

One of the, I remember
one of the projects

he wanted to do was to analyse
the garbage that came out

of Cubberley High
School, because he felt

that was a statement about
the nature of society.

He was the original Greenpeace activist;

I mean he really was before his time.

In March 1967 here at
Cubberley High School

in the 10th grade at about
aged 15 we were taking

a contemporary world history
class from our teacher Mr Jones.

The topic in March was the
World Before World War II

and in particular Germany at the time.

Often we never really knew
where Ron Jones was going

to take us when he went down
some of his paths for education.

MUSIC

My memory of the Third Wave
was that we were asking.

Mr Jones as we were finishing
up one unit of study

“what are we going to
study the next day?”

Because we were so
fascinated by his teaching,

by his lectures, we couldn't
wait to hear what was next.

How unusual was that? But
that's how excellent

and dynamic his teaching was.

I think he approached it
from the standpoint of

we're going to do things a
little bit differently,

we're going to do a little
bit of perhaps role playing

and so it was very unthreatening.

We came into class and
the chairs were suddenly

arranged in a row or arranged
in five or six rows.

And I know what's happening
I mean they're saying

to themselves okay we'll
get Mr Jones on one of his

tirades and it will be a fun
day, they will be no tests,

no pop quizzes.

I remember clearly
from him and classmates

that if we followed what was
asked of us we'd all get A's.

You needed good grades to get
into college and you actually

needed specific classes and so
you needed to pass this class.

He said those who go
along with the experiment

will get an A, and those
who don't and I seem

to remember pretty clearly
he didn't fill in the blank.

But it was sort of a, it
implied threat you know

like something bad would happen.

The other thing would have
been to go to the library

which was I thought you got
diseases there you know,

so I never went to the library.

But I stayed in the class and did what

I had to do for a grade.

It was that simple.

He said that if we were active
party members we would get an A.

If we were passive party
members we would get a C.

If we tried a revolution and
failed we would get an F

but if our revolution
succeeded we would get an A.

The first two days of
the experiment Mr Jones

was not the usual Ron Jones.

It's funny he didn't quite have
the smile in his expression,

he didn't quite have the
smile in his eyes either.

This was totally out of character for him,

we had known him for six
months, half a year,

and he was always smiling,
he was charismatic

and a lot of fun to be around.

So when he came in and was not
smiling it was very unnerving.

He usually was a lot
more open sometimes

we'd go outside to study
certain things, sometimes we

would do round table discussions.

With this he came in with a very
structured idea.

So I cleaned the room,
put the desks in order,

I took down all the projects,
played some Wagnering music,

darkened the room and introduced
the students to discipline.

Well I like classical music and
I don't remember any Wagner

or German music being played.

He wrote on the board the
idea the concept of strength

through discipline, how it's
through discipline and practice

that athletes were able to
perform all the things they did.

He did have us sit at
attention at the seats

as opposed to just sprawling all over

as is the usual thing
you do in high school.

He talked about how when you
sat straight and sat at

attention you could breathe
easier, when you breathe easier

you could concentrate better and
your answers are more concise.

The moment he said that
the entire class shifted

their posture and here they
all were sitting bolt upright

with their feet on the floor
and their arms to their sides.

That was actually pretty
comfortable for me

because I play the harp
and you have to, you know

it was like okay this is, you
know there's certain things

about your body energy
when you sit up straight

and this is all fine with me.

One of the first things that
he did for us was give us

an exercise where we put
our hands behind our back

and lock them together.

We're going to you know look
forward, straight ahead

and everybody thought okay
this is kind of fun you know,

I can play along with this.

That was easy for me to
sign on to you know,

there is a certain strength
that comes from discipline.

The question is to what end?

Then he wanted to see
how quickly we could be

disassembled outside and
then race into the room

and sit still like this which he was calling

sitting at attention.

It was chaotic like you know
first time the students

went outside the room and
came back in they could

come back any way they wish
so there's the tumbling

and falling and bouncing into
people, desks falling over.

And so we tried this over and over again,

again it's just as a joke, as
a game but indeed it worked.

He timed us coming back into
the chairs and we all sat down

and everybody's bumping into
each other and sitting down

and sitting at attention like
this and looking and then.

Mr Jones would look at
the stop watch and say.

“I think we could do it faster”.

And then the second episode
was to come into the room

but try to be disciplined,
try to move smoothly,

try to move cleanly, try to get to your seat

and sit down promptly and
there's shum boom,

everyone's sitting down.

Each time we came in we did
it a little bit faster

and Mr Jones was ready
to move on he said

“okay I think we've done it”
and one of the students

yelled out “Mr Jones I
think we can go quicker”.

And so we all got up and we did it again

and that was a little, just that
little moment, was a little bit

of a sign that maybe the kids
were really getting into it,

maybe we were getting
into it pretty strongly,

a little too fast.

Now up to this point, one Jones
had allowed us to call him

as Ron or Mr Jones,
however we wished,

but he was open to Ron.

From this point on we were just
to refer to him as Mr Jones.

Well I entered the class the second day

and I really anticipated
that the class would be back

to normal, they'd be this
hubbub of excitement and we

would discuss the first day,
but to my surprise the class

was kind of sitting there and
they had these like zipper

like smiles on their faces and these

little twinkle in their eyes.

So when we all gathered in
the class on the beginning

of the second day which
was even before Ron Jones

came in we did all go to our places,

we did all stand by our seats
and we were all quiet.

And myself was thinking about okay

there is this curiosity why
are they sitting like that?

And maybe we should continue
and if we do continue

where do we go, what do we do,

what was that about yesterday?

Ron was making it up day
by day as he went along,

it wasn't like a lesson plan that he had.

So spontaneously I
went to the blackboard

and strength through discipline
had already been there

and I wrote down strength through

community. And that's
when he was talking

about La Rossa, the
people who build houses

together versus the individual.

La Rossa, a movement, a cause,
building a barn together,

doing something together
as a community,

the idea of a community
being more important

than the individual. And
then I gave the students

of feeling of being a part of the group

by whispering together,
or chanting together,

or just stomping feet
together, just this raw,

guttural feeling of being
a part of something

bigger than oneself.

They had the SLA going on
you had the Black Panthers,

you had a lot of things like
this going on and when you're

a member of that you had the
camaraderie and you feel like

you're a little piece of a
larger community of power.

The idea of perhaps if
we all shared a grade

as opposed to an individual grade

and how good it would
feel to go home with an A

as opposed to a C plus
and I think that really

affected some kids. You know.

God damn it I've been getting
a C plus all my life

and I'm going to go home
with an A to my parents,

I'm in this.

So we would get together
outside of class

and do homework together
and turn it in as a group.

I thought that was great
because I didn't have to study

we basically got to do certain things

and it seemed like a lot of fun.

I remember thinking that gosh I wonder

how that's going to work.

Obviously this was not as popular

with the really good
students because they could,

to some degree could see their
grades being compromised.

Grades, there was no
threat, there was no threat

involved with us sharing, if
anything it again got people to,

who had not participated
much in the class before

to talk and be part of the class.

The fact that students were
beginning to assist each other

and come up with answers
for a high school teacher

all of a sudden I'm being
flooded with accuracy

of answers and a community

that's generating these answers.

It's not one student failing or
one student being successful.

Suddenly there is this
community of answers.

He also in his first
couple of days came up

with the concept of he
would ask us a question,

first of all we would have
to say Mr Jones to start,

and that our answers to these questions

would have to be three words or less.

Very, very brief, cryptic, short, sharp.

If you have something to say you get up

next to your desk and
address him properly.

You know good manners,
nothing wrong with that.

What if we had a community
where, well of course,

we'll need some kind of signature

so I created a Wave salute?

And the salute was like this.

It was pretty much just like.

And we had to do this right when
we saw each other or something?

Well there was a Hitler
salute I remember that.

Now that you're bringing this all back

it's like it's automatic.

I'm sorry I don't
remember the hand signal.

The salute was a curved
hand representing a wave

and our organisation was called The.

Third Wave. In beach law
that means The Third Wave

is is the strongest, the most powerful.

And so with strength through discipline

we were The Third Wave.

He gave us our Third Wave ID cards.

And this was again I just
reached in my drawer

and there was a bunch of index cards.

So I pulled them out and passed
them out to each student.

And he said “all these cards
are going to be blank

except for three of them which
will have a red X on them”.

With the idea that if you
get a red X on your card

you're a little special.

You three are going to be the informants.

In our class there weren't cards.

But Ron came around each
table and just said

whether we were informers or not.

What I remember was that he
actually used the word Gestapo.

You're to report to me
anyone who doesn't go along

with our community values.

Which was the salute, if you
saw another community member.

We were to salute each other
as we passed in the halls;

we were also to salute each other

when we passed each other off campus.

If he did give out the
cards I don't have mine

and I've never seen one and apparently

none of them have survived.

This is a strength through
discipline membership card

and this was the one that I
put together for the class.

And this was the one I made;

I was very into psychedelic
colours at the time.

You know I used to paint
myself with all kinds

of psychedelic colours, so I made a very

psychedelic kind of card.

Another rule was to not gather
in groups larger than two,

both in class and out of class
and off campus, even at home.

I don't think we were to
talk too much other than

if you have a trusted
friend maybe bring them in.

It struck me as very
dangerous for a movement

to emerge in which people
were not free to express

what they thought, what they
felt, they weren't in a sense

it seemed free to even
have their own beliefs.

So anyway he passed out all these cards

and three people got the red X's.

However as Mr Jones disclosed later

more than three people
were turning in names.

I'm a big question asker
and lo and behold

that is precisely what I did I
think I stood up by my desk

and said Mr Jones “why can't
we just say what we think,

why can't we just express our opinions

about what we think
about The Third Wave?”

And at that point he
said “You to the library

for the rest of the semester”.

Things that they did, I
do remember that happened

in my class, somebody indeed
was sent to the library,

that people were, and more
than one time people

were banished from the class.

You were there 100 per
cent or you were not.

And so if you even had a
doubt about something

he was saying and you mentioned that

he would send you out.

People would just
disappear, and that no one

was able to talk about it
made it even more mysterious.

And that's not like you
saw them after class

or after school and saying
“hey what's this all about?”

So I went off to the library
feeling most dejected

and outcast and really very intimidated

I think I felt like crying.

Naively I had believed
him that he had in fact

told all the faculty that
he would collect our names

and kick us out so I was
fearful to tell the librarian

why I was there but
she was really on me,

she wanted to know what
are you doing here

you need to be in class.

So I remember just taking a
really deep breath and thinking

well I'm going to tell her and okay maybe

she turns my name in
and I'm already out,

I already have the F so
what else can they do?

But it still was very intimidating to me,

very much so to tell her.

But I did begin describing to
her the nature of the movement

as I had come to understand
it in those first few days

and her response was
one of great alarm,

she shared with me that she
had been born and raised

in Nazi Germany and that this was

the climate of her upbringing.

And she said this is so like
that and you can't take this

sitting down, you have to
do something and I knew

that I did have to do something
but I just hadn't been able

to figure out what on earth that would be

and part of my dilemma in trying
to figure it out was trying

to think of what I could
do that would have

any impact that I could do in secret?

That evening I went home and
told my parents about this

and I have to give them
credit because they said

“well what would you like to do?”

And the thing that came
to my mind immediately

was to make posters.

About 8.30 in the evening
my father would drive me

over to the high school campus.

This was a very warm climate
in Palo Alto so all of the

hallways were outdoors
and I could just go

and put up posters and so that
first night I just felt like

oh at least I'm doing something.

When I arrived at
school the next morning

between first and second hours
I thought I'm just going

to take a quick spin around
the school and just admire

my handiwork and just see my posters.

Much to my astonishment there
was not a single poster up.

So I saw that within an hour
of school starting someone

had been in charge of
sweeping the school,

to make sure there was
nothing negative about.

The Third Wave anywhere and they
had torn down every poster.

I don't remember ever asking a student

to take down posters per say.

The next night I went home
after school and repeated

my poster making obsession
behaviour and took a ladder

to the school the next
day and each evening

that became the practice

to lug a ladder to the school.

So I would get the posters
up just as high as I could

and even then many of the
posters still came down.

I guess people would jump up
and grab them but there were

some that stayed up
which was my secret

and sort of silent triumph.

This organisation was
called The Breakers

who were trying to stop The Third Wave.

Actually I used to live in
Rhode Island where there was

a mansion called The
Breakers when I was a child

the breakers are waves and
then there's the pun

of breaking the movement.

It was a mystery to me
as to The Breakers,

who they were or what they were?

It was one more mystery
in that whole event.

Something that happened
also that was unexpected

was a tremendous upheaval
of ideas about what to do

that I hadn't thought about.

Whether it be making
something for the class

or doing something for the
class, I had not perceived that.

But I allowed that to happen.

On the third day of
the experiment Mr Jones

came in and he wrote strength through

action. I believe, that was the third day

that was his lesson of the day.

Everything that he had
been talking to us about,

the first two days with
strength through discipline

and strength through community
really mean nothing

unless there's action to go along with it.

We started making posters;
especially because I was

interested in art that
was one thing I said.

“I can help out with that
part of the experiment”.

People would cut
letters out of magazines

and glue them on to pieces
of paper and then he'd

put all these up on a
wall in the classroom.

There were new flyers
that you had to pass out.

He really just wanted us
out there talking about it.

There were tables set up in
the corridors where members

of The Third Wave from Mr Jones' class,

would try to enlist other students.

My name is Rick Schloss, I was a senior

at Cubberley High School in
1967, it was between classes

and I'm walking down this
hallway and at this point

I encounter a table like
this where there were

two guys standing behind it.

There is a banner on the
wall and the banner says.

The Third Wave.

Underneath The Third Wave it
said Strength through Unity.

At this point one of the
guys comes around the table

and asks me if I'd like
to join The Third Wave?

Never heard of it before, don't
have a clue what it's about

and when I ask him what
what it was he said

“strength through unity”,
that's all he could tell me.

I asked them again so
what do you stand for?

The other guy chimes in
“strength through unity”,

they constantly repeated
this mantra without really

telling me what this was about.

At this point I decided
no I'm not interested,

I'm going to walk away and as
I start to take a step away

one of the guys walks around
the corner, produces a small

spiral wound binder and
a pencil and what he's

going to do is he wants my name.

I refused to give him my
name, the other guy started

to move over like it was actually

going to be confrontational.

At that time I was getting
ready to go to battle,

it looked like maybe it was
going to be a fist fight

right here in the hallway.

I even saw fist fights about
The Third Wave in the hallways

as people became more
and more impassioned.

My only feelings at that
point were that we were

in the right and the people
who were picking the fights

were in the wrong.

That somehow they weren't
really seeing what we were

up to was nothing bad, it
was, it had a lot of energy

and a lot of excitement
and a lot of purpose.

So when I heard that other
students were, you know

were fighting Third Wave members
that my feeling was just that

well they just don't know
enough about what we're doing

and if they knew then they
probably would want to join.

I was on the outside, I
wasn't part of this class

and I desperately wanted to
be part of it and when I did

everything I could do to try to
find out how to be part of it

I was excluded.

And the people that were
in the classes in there

wouldn't give me the time
of day, wouldn't tell me

what's going on and I'm going
“well this is terrible,

I'm not part of this picture”.

About midway through this
Third Wave experience

I decided I would walk past
the classroom at fifth hour

just to see what was
going on in the room.

But I really was very
fearful in doing it because

I thought maybe someone would
see me and point me out.

I didn't know if people were
starting to suspect that I had

anything to do with any of
the subversive activities.

So I just walked by very
cautiously and only looked out

of the very corner of my eye
and to my shock what I noticed

was just standing room only in that class.

The room was absolutely packed.

Everyone that couldn't find a
seat pulled up a piece of floor,

it was amazing and there
were always people waiting

to get in, you know out at the door.

All of a sudden we started to
get attention from juniors

and seniors and people outside
of our classroom wanting

to know what was going
on, what was happening,

what was The Third Wave about?

Students from all the
different levels within

the high school were there,
and there was just this

emergence of passion in the room.

People were just so excited,
so electrified to be involved

with this new movement and it
both amazed and terrified me.

I had heard about it while
it was going on I had enough

friends at Cubberley that I
heard that this was happening.

I became frightened when
I realised that there were

students coming into the
classroom from outside

the original class and I also
knew that there were students

from the other two high
schools in the district

that were thinking about
joining The Wave.

I was privy to that kind
of gossip, those red X's

that I'd given everybody became
this funnel of information.

I knew everything that was
happening; It was scary to know

minute details about
what someone was telling

their parents or what someone
was telling their best friend.

It's not enough to think a certain way;

we have to act in a certain way.

We have to be strong, we have
to get rid of the weak people

in the class, we have to get rid
of the potential informers,

the spies.

Yes we were part of a group but
now we had finks out there.

I think there was an
innate feeling of wanting

to be accepted by your
peers, you wanted to be

you know good, you
wanted to fit in and I,

I wanted people to like me,
I think I would have been

capable of many things that
I would hate to admit.

The scarder they were of
being caught themselves

or being hurt the more they
gave up information on people.

Things like that were
going on and it was a

complete small little
society of this going on

and it was dog eat dog for your grade.

That's when you start
finding out who are the

good people, the bad
people and a true person

was actually the worst. There
were people that were living

and dying it that it run
their life and they were,

doing everything exactly
what Ron wanted them to do.

You shied away from people
that were scoffing at it

because you wanted to
remain part of the group.

You never knew who might
turn somebody in and when

there were these mock trials
you never know if somebody

had actually turned the person
in or if it was just made up.

In this classroom with Mr Jones
at the head of the classroom

and us sitting in our
rows, he would come into

the class and tell us that he
had heard from a secret police

and there had been violators
that had to be tried that day.

So he'd stand up in front of
the class and he would say

so and so and they would snap
to attention at their desk

and stand up next to their desk.

You have been seen in the company

of known revolutionaries

what do you have to say about that?

And all of a sudden the
class would start chanting,

in unison, guilty, guilty, guilty.

Jones would go over to his desk,
grab one of his ditto forms,

that says you are hereby
exiled to the library

for the duration of the
experiment, whenever this class

meets hereafter on a daily
basis you are to go

to the library; You are never
to come back to class.

And that student would
be escorted out the door

and they'd be gone.

During one of the weeks, I
think it was the second week;

I had passed one of my
classmates in the hall,

who was in The Third Wave
and she had given me

the Third Wave salute
which I did not return,

not being part of the movement.

And I could see her face just
turn just this look of shock

and she said to me “Sherry you
didn't return the salute”.

So I just told her “well
I'm not in the movement”,

and she said with a tone of
disbelief “You're not, what?”

And I reiterated it and from
that moment on she wanted

to have absolutely nothing
to do with me, any time

we passed in the hall she
would look the other way,

no acknowledgement of my
existence and we had been,

at least casual friends, we
chatted, we would always

say hi when we saw
each other previously.

But once she saw that I
was not in the movement

she wanted just absolutely
nothing to do with me.

Outside of class I believe
it was after the second

or third day I was with one of
my best friends and in that day

you know we were saying strength
through discipline STD,

the you know those were the
initials, the acronym.

There was a commercial out in
that day I think it was for Tide

or for Ajax, I can't remember
which one but their slogan

was “Stronger Than Dirt”.

So I told my best friend I
said “you know STD means

stronger than dirt” and he
just laughed and all that,

I was just making a joke
about The Third Wave.

And we went about our
ways and everything,

the very next morning Mr
Jones has me stand up

at attention and says “Mr
Neel I want you to stand up

next to your desk”.

And he pulls out a piece
of paper out of his pocket

and he says “it's been said
to me that you said STD

means stronger than dirt”.

And I look at my friend
who's sat in front of me

and he's just staring straight
ahead, no smile or anything.

And I realised you know
obviously he had turned me in.

And then there was
also the phenomenon

of some students getting
psychologically involved in it.

Well beyond a game.

One of the students sat
over here, the very corner

of the room, right by the door.

And I remember he'd always sit
there even during lunch hour.

No student should ever be alone,
and this kid was just alone

and one day he followed
me into the faculty room

where he was addressed by the
English teacher, Mr Tanner.

Mr Tanner said “you don't belong
in here, you're a student”.

And this child turned to
that teacher and said.

“I'm not a student, I'm a bodyguard”.

All of a sudden there was a
line crossed all over the place

and this wasn't about
teaching students or running

a simulation, this was like,
this was out of bounds.

He would have bodyguards
around him so of course

whenever we saw Ron Jones
walking in the hallways

he would be getting salutes,
he would be saluting,

his body guards would be
saluting and we would be

saluting back so, this group,
this master and his group

would be walking through
the hallways and creating

this wave of of salutes
as he went through.

The Tech prep class that I was
teaching at the same time

did basically kidnap me,
take me to a dumpster,

drop me in a dumpster and say
“we're not letting you out

until you let us be the Gestapo” basically.

So this is that kind of mixture
of of things happening.

Some students just wanted
to go along, some students

joining because it might
be fun and some students

taking it on as “this is my salvation”.

It all went back to the way
that many children were raised

in that time period where you
know they didn't get a lot of

one on one personal time
with their parents,

there was no such thing
as “how are you feeling?”

And nobody cared how you
were feeling, you just got

the best grades you could
and you went on to college

and that would please your parents.

At that point we knew we
had slogans, rules, a sense

of direction and we had a
secret police to make sure

we followed the rules.

I have a memory of the
room being ransacked

I think on the fourth day.

Weird things were starting
to happen around the school.

His room was vandalised.

I didn't do anything to
vandalise the classroom

but I put posters up all over
the room, I think I taped

posters on every desk top
and I wrote on the board.

By ransacked I mean that
somebody just comes through

and just kind of torn down banners and...

But that was happening a lot,
banners being torn down,

banners being put back.

Literally the only topic I
heard students speak about

the entire day was “did you
hear someone broke into.

The Third Wave headquarters?”

I'd be walking down the hall and
hear people at their lockers,

people I had no idea who they
even were talking about this.

Really my fear was all the
greater because I just felt like

if someone finds out that I did it then

the danger is greater.

All of a sudden from the very
beginning of the fourth day

things were different.

Mr Jones came into the classroom
and closed the curtains

and shut the door and locked it.

He had a full time bodyguard
that was with him.

By now there were members of
the Car Club who were acting

as self-appointed bodyguards
and one of them stood by

the door when it was locked.

He turned out the lights,
drew the curtains

and it was pretty dark in there.

We were kept standing.

At this point he I believe
expelled a couple of people

on the concept of performing
mock assassinations.

I believe they were taken out
of the class at that time

and then he changed the
whole process on us.

There was a little bit of a
slant, a different change

in his mood and how
he was addressing us.

And you have to remember
the class is jam packed

by now you know the individual
classroom, Mr Jones,

Room C3 was just lined with
people sitting in the aisles

or standing by the windows,
by the bench seats.

He told us that this was
not a game, this was not

something that just our class
was in, but that teachers

all over the nation were
doing this in classes

and that we were going
to get together and form

a third political party in this country.

The trials were held to get the
kids out who weren't really

serious about it and those
of you who are left

are the strong ones who will
take this student movement

forward, it is in fact a
national movement, there's 1025

other schools doing this
right now and in those days

there was no internet so there
was no way to fact check him

and oddly enough nobody asked
him to prove it either.

We trusted him, or at least
we weren't in a position

to make waves.

This was happening in San
Francisco; He said this is

happening in Chicago, this is
happening in Philadelphia,

this is happening in New York.

And because it was working
so well they were going

to come out with their
party leader the next day.

That changed the simulation,
that changed it to being

the stakes were raised and all
of sudden it's bigger than me

and it wasn't something
that I could pull out of

and have it stop.

The group had come
together because of their

disenchantment with our country
after President Kennedy's death.

Now all the hopes that he
had and we had as a nation

through the peace corps and
development and civil rights

and they're saying there's
now a new party being formed

to take a lot of those
values and bring them

forward again because they've been lost.

And of course for us they had
been lost because there was

the Vietnam war going
on and there were still

civil right problems and there
were still leaders being

assassinated and killed left
and right in our country.

I remember inside of
myself thinking I trusted

the Government that they
were telling us the truth

and it was my first experience
with political situations

where we weren't fully
informed and we didn't know

necessarily everything that
was going on and I recall

feeling betrayed a little
bit by our Government.

Up until that point it, I was
raised to believe everything

that the Government said as the truth.

Our country was having
economic problems that

we could do better
economically, that we could do

better politically, militarily.

That there was a lot
of weakness going on

with our current administration,
we were in a war

that nobody wanted to be in.

That we were going to find a
better way, that we were going

to get rid of those people
in Washington who are not

following what the mass of
people wanted to follow.

And oddly enough there
was a Time magazine,

or some magazine, that
happened to have this thing

called The Third Wave.

One of my fellow classmates
from the back said.

“Mr Jones what about this?”

And it was a colour ad and it said.

The Third Wave is coming.

And I reached over and
grabbed it and I said.

“And this is the signal of
action and tomorrow we're going

to have a rally and you're going to meet

a presidential candidate that's
going to explain the purpose

of The Wave and this is our
new leader and we're going

to rise up together and
change the world”.

Well that was my magazine,
I brought that in,

it was a double page, there's
some pictures in the bottom

and there's something about Third Wave

and it kind of crossed the
scene boundary in the middle.

That kind of helped decide me
into the state of thinking

this indeed is going to happen.

When he told us this was a real thing,

a real youth movement, I
don't remember any more

about this youth movement
what it was supposed to be,

but the fact that it was supposedly real.

If this was how it was being run
I didn't want any part of it

and I didn't, I remember at that
time feeling very frightened

and very helpless and
like what could we do?

Was there anything that could be done?

And I remember talking to
Mark a great deal about

you know we're sort of
comparing notes about

what was going on and was
there something we could do?

And I didn't know, I felt
really, wow this was, this was,

this was bigger stuff than
I knew how to handle.

I kept looking at Ron Jones and
I kept trying to find some,

something, something in
his attitude or demeanour

or a twinkle in the corner
of his eye or something

in the way he spoke
that would let me know

that this guy is pulling our leg.

I believed it was possible
because there were

a lot of other things
happening during the 60's

of movements that had gone nationwide.

He said that he wanted all
of us to report the next day

at noon to Room H1, which
was a big assembly hall,

and on close circuit TV.

The national party leader
would come out on a limb

and cut it off and announce
the new student movement.

Mr Jones then abruptly left
the room, left us all alone

in the dark, I remember
one student jumping up,

it was a girl I think, and
she was telling everybody

to not go, that this was wrong.

And I don't think anybody
joined her and I kind of looked

around out of the corner
of my eye and I saw that

everybody else was just
ignoring her and staring

straight ahead which had
a lot you know forced me

you know to sort of keep
going along with everybody

and not you know disband at this point.

When we left that class that
day I and friends of mine

were flabbergasted,
my world had changed.

He was such a beloved
charismatic teacher

to have him say that
this was a real thing.

I was, I don't think I've ever
felt so betrayed in my life.

When Ron Jones told us this was
going to happen he gave us

a couple of conditions and the
conditions were that we were

not to talk about this
upcoming assembly or that.

The Third Wave was a
real political group,

we were not to talk
about that with anyone.

My mum's concern was mainly
that somebody that was

in authority was talking to
the students and that some

of the students were really
getting into what he was saying

and that this could cause
upheaval in our democracy

and she felt that it was just
the beginning of something

bigger that she had seen happen
with Hitler and so forth.

One of the rumours was
that a kid had gone

to their counsellor and
complained about it

and the counsellor had
turned them into Jones

and they'd been exiled.

We never knew who the student
was but the rumour was

very effective at keeping us at bay.

I didn't let anybody know that
I had gone to the counsellor

to speak with my mother
because I didn't know who had

that connection with
Ron and they might say

“oh she knows and so make sure
she doesn't go to the assembly”.

We usually talked about all
kinds of things, politics,

school, whatever and we'd sit
down to dinner every night

and they noticed this particular
night that I was not very

talkative and that I seemed
to have something on my mind,

so they asked me.

And I told them I said
“maybe, maybe you don't

want to go to work tomorrow”.

I said “I think it would be
a good idea if you didn't,

but if you do have to go to
work see if you can be by

a television set at 12 noon
because I think something

really major is is going to be happening”.

Well the principal was pretty
excited and elated by the way

because it took all the
discontents off the street

for a second, out of the
corridor, if they were ending up

in my classroom so there,
there seemed to be a calm

about the school and an order
that he really appreciated.

Ron Jones didn't keep
me updated day-to-day

as the experiment went along
and I didn't expect him to.

I had approved his approach
and I assumed that he would

carry it through in a professional manner.

And as I say I did get one
or two calls from parents

in which I explained the
purpose of the lesson

and that I thought it
would be an excellent way

to teach the students the
dangers of totalitarianism.

That afternoon when I was
walking in the corridors

I saw a lot of the students,
the senior students who were

the long haired radical
protesters who had cut classes

to come into The Third Wave, I
heard them in the hallway saying

“we're going to get
the pigs out of Washington;

we're going to get us out of Vietnam”.

And you know even though
we were sophomores

we were two years away from the draft.

Vietnam was a draft war, it
wasn't like the Iraqi war

and in a couple of years
the Government was going

to hand us a gun and say
“either kill or be killed”.

And so when I heard these
guys saying you know

“we're going to get the
people out of Washington

who are responsible for this
war”, that motivated me

to want to go to the rally the next day.

If we were chosen we don't
want to screw this up

for everybody else that you know
is going to be participating.

And that was part of it to as it went on,

you didn't want to fail
because there were all these

other people counting on you.

You didn't want to be the
reason why it didn't, progress.

And then we came in that morning
to the class and there was

no teacher there and we were
all just sort of wondering

what was going to happen.

And then I believe it was two
guys, it was at least two,

from the executor Car
Club who were sort of his

bodyguards came in to
escort us to the room

where we were going to
be watching this video.

And I hadn't really planned
it or anything but I stood up

and told everyone not to
go that it wasn't right.

It wasn't like should I or shouldn't I?

When the time came she knew
she wasn't going to go

and she was going to
take whatever happened.

And they wrote my name down
and I remember feeling

oh my God you know what have I done?

She was never wishy-washy,
she was hurt, she was angry,

she was confused, you know
here was this teacher,

I mean after all her father
was a teacher you know

and she grew up in an
academic setting and the idea

that a teacher would involve
the students this way

was very, everything kind of
broke down, it was really bad.

Only one other girl didn't go,
Jeannie, sat, was sitting right

in front of me and everyone
else left and I was sort of

I couldn't believe that
everyone was going to

really watch this rally.

And I was very disappointed
in myself and then I was,

I remember my heart was
pounding and I remember feeling

Jeannie and I sitting
looking at each other

and like what do we do now?

And yet she turned
to me and I remember her

how she looked and she was
just so glad, I think she was

really glad that someone
had said something.

Because I don't think,
she didn't want to go

and maybe she couldn't have
done it if it was just herself.

It was so exciting you
didn't want to be left out

either you wanted to
see what was going on.

I thought indeed it was going to happen.

I mean I believed I
trusted, believed Ron Jones

was telling the truth.

And I didn't feel
comfortable, I really didn't

and something big was going to happen.

When it was time to go to
H1 I still wasn't sure

if I was going to go through with this.

So I came into H1 and there
were already people there.

I looked inside and by now
it felt like 200 students

were in there.

My assumption is maybe 200
it might have been less,

all I know it was filled up.

Word had spread, there
were photographers

taking pictures of everybody in the room.

Taking pictures of
him and the bodyguards

and looking out on the class.

And I remember my vantage
point of being able

to look down over everything and Ron

was down in the middle.

The lights were off, the room was quiet.

There were bodyguards at
the doors and because I saw

everybody else there
and that it had grown

I decided to go in.

And I sat down and there was
just like nothing happening.

You know in retrospect I'd
always felt like you know

I could leave at any time anyway so.

So I went into the classroom,
Room H1, and I remember.

Mr Jones was in front of
the class and everybody

was sitting at ease I think.

Which meant you know
we had our hands

behind our back and held together.

At that point he said
“let us show everybody

the extent of our training”.

So he had us all stand up
at attention and we all

belted out in unison
strength through discipline,

strength through community,
strength through action

and it started soft and then
it grew louder and louder

and louder so that everybody
was in this huge unison

of yelling out this mantra.

And photographers were snapping
pictures and these were

photographers I'd never
seen I'd just assumed

they were from magazines
and newspapers

from all over the peninsula.

And then Mr Jones had us sit
at attention to wait for

the party leader and in
the front of the room

was a television set, you know
probably a 19 inch screen,

and he said the party
leader's going to come on

any minute now and he
left the room with it on

it was just snow.

His bodyguards went out of
the room, the reporters

went out of the room and there
were all of these people

looking at snow on a TV screen.

And it was 12 o'clock.

And you're looking around and
suddenly Jones isn't there

and you're beginning to freak
out, no guards, no Jones,

static on the tube.

I looked around and
all I could see were grey faces

and everybody zombie like
staring at the screen

waiting for something to happen.

And it's like a pressure cooker
and you just we all felt

like something was really
wrong, there was, the TV

wasn't working, the teacher wasn't here,

the guards were gone and
all basically the students

were sitting in here alone.

Everybody looked like they were dead.

I just, and my mind flipped, my
mind flipped to like the Jews

in the concentration camp.

Being told they're going to
a room to take a shower.

The doors shutting and then
the pellets being dropped

from the pipes up above, I
thought we were trapped.

I went into a panic. I stood up and I said.

“I'm getting the hell out of here”.

We basically panicked
in my case it was like

some thing's very wrong here,
I've got to get out of here.

I just remember Steve Coniglio
and I we just ran out.

And we raced towards the
doors; I fully expected

it to be locked.

And so I headed out
that back door as fast

as I could in a panic.

I tore out of there, I ran down the stairs.

You've got one foot in the
door, one foot out the door

and then all the lights came on and

it was Mr Jones standing
at the back of the room

and he'd turned on the
lights and he slowly walked

forward to the front of the
room and he looked shaken.

I remember this sickening
silence in the room;

it was almost like a sweating
room it just got hotter

and hotter as this particular
leader did not appear.

And then to release that tension
I remember having

the students whisper
some of our edicts like

strength through discipline,
strength through community,

strength through action.

And I remember them louder
sitting at attention

with their feet flat against the
floor and their backs straight

you know strength through discipline,

strength through comm... bam ba
ba ba ba ba, bam ba ba ba ba ba.

And then I remember this
thing flickering there

as these students waited
for this leader to appear.

And there was nothing, just this static.

Somebody yelled out “there
is no party leader”.

At that point I snapped on
this visual and it was Hitler

and it was the holocaust
and it was bodies

and hollowed eyes and the horror

that we had fallen victim to.

MUSIC

And he sat in the chair and just
said “what I have witnessed

for the last week and a half”
or a week whatever it was

“what I have witnessed
has really sickened me”.

Because we are no better
or worse than the Germans,

we were just like them, we'd
work on the defence plants,

we witnessed this desolation.

We're just like them.

You had to be there to see
people crying you know

horribly and shocked that
the look of shock was like

the Earth was ending you
know and they didn't know

what to do, people couldn't
walk, they were sitting down

on the chairs and some
people wanted to leave,

didn't know whether to leave or not.

The lights were out as
people were leaving,

I remember some students crying.

Some students having to
hold other hold each other.

I remember one guy walking by going

“oh I knew it was a joke all along”.

I don't think he felt that way honestly.

People took it serious and
and then they found that

this what they did they were
not proud of, I think that's

what hurt a lot of the people
and that they could be taken,

nobody likes to be taken.

One of the lessons we learned
is that in our class

what you were being threatened
with was your grade

but in real life in a dictatorship

what you're threatened with is your life.

I hate to think that I
go through life thinking

it's all about me but this
was such a moment when

someone came to get me to
say it's over, I thought

oh they've found me out,
but in fact the movement

was over and she was calling
me back to the classroom.

When I came back to the
classroom my memory

of the students were that
they looked liked mirages,

a mirage on the highway
in the hot summer,

shaking appearance.

That's my memory of the
students, they seemed to be

trembling, some of them
seemed so shaky that if you

just did that to them they'd fall over.

I had that moment of total
panic and my own uneducated

way empathy towards victims of
a Nazi Third Wave like regime.

I'm half German and my name Hess,

you know my maiden name
Hess is very German.

And, so there have
always been issues about

how could this happen
to the German people?

How could they do this? I
remember when I was a young

child a Jewish boy in our
neighbourhood giving us

a very hard time that you
know the German's could have

done something and they
could have thrown a brick

or something you know like
there was some feeling of like

there could have been,
there should have been

something we did, could have done.

And even though all my
grandparents were born here

I still had this feeling of
like you know in my body even

that there is something
about being German that was

so shameful because this
thing had happened.

And the German people didn't
stop it, and then here we were

and all educated in recent
history, this thing

having happened, and
here it was happening,

you know it seemed to be
like it's happening again,

oh my God, how could this happen?

I don't think it got out of
control as a methodology

or as a unit for learning, I
thought it got out of control

when he then took that learning
and tried to apply it to

his contemporary's school,
he was actually coaching

the United Student Movement
which had nothing to do

directly with his class but
that's what I think is

the immorality of what Ron Jones did.

He took his advantage as a
teacher with a guaranteed

audience of young people to
try to indoctrinate them,

he wasn't teaching them, he
was indoctrinating them.

And that's what I think his
mistake was, it's his purpose,

his intent rather than the
actual teaching was the problem.

From the time of The Third
Wave ended until he was let go

a year later I think the
mechanism was in the works

to get rid of him.

And I think there was
just too many complaints

by the conservative teachers,
too many complaints

by the conservative administration.

Oh yeah I don't think they
liked his teaching methods.

I think they were scared.

Usually when people get
scared that's what they do

they want to get rid of the
person they're scared of

and I think that's how it happened.

Agnes Robinson, a member
of the school board,

was probably the main
proponent of let kids do

what they want to do, she was
very permissive you know.

All my time on the school
board I was the most radical

and I didn't hesitate
to say what I believed

and I didn't hesitate to do
what I thought was right

which then of course led
me to the sad situation

that I had to give up on Jones.

I'm sure the fatal blow
was the fact that this was

the year they either had to fire
him or he would get tenure.

That was terrible and it was right

in this room and he came over one night

and we had a big long talk
and I realised the situation

was just too difficult for me to continue

and be an honourable
school board member.

So I had to tell him that I
couldn't back him any more

and I remember feeling
just terrible about it.

And, but what could I felt that,
I felt as an honest person

I had to do it and then the school board

took over and knocked him off.

I remember being in the gym,
there was such a movement

to keep him from being
fired and and then it was

brought out that he was
going to move on because

they were going to restrict
the way that he taught

and that if he went up into
the city that he would have

more freedom to teach in his own way

and that it was better for him.

But I felt a tremendous loss.

In the end bureaucracy is
going to win somehow or other

I perhaps did him a favour

by getting him out this picture when I did.

Because then he could
go on with his life and

preach what he really wanted to preach.

Probably 10 years after The
Wave actually took place

I sat down one evening
and wrote the story out.

I was over in Berkeley buying underwear

and some student came up
and gave me the salute

and it forced it all to rush back.

I did pull up my hand to my
shoulder and bring it back down

and we talked a bit
about what he was doing

and what he was after,
all of which I really

can't remember much about
after all this time.

I sat down one evening
and wrote the story out.

And there was an article in
Psychology Today about this

and then that's where I read
about Ron Jones short story.

It was published in the
Fulworth catalogue,

subsequently purchased by Norman Lear

for a musical theatric version
but turned out to be like

an after school special
that was immediately bumped

into a prime time television drama.

The novelization of that
film was written called.

The Wave and its required
reading in Germany

and in a number of schools in Israel,

and in a number of schools
in the United States.

PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT

MUSIC

INSTRUCTIVE CHATTERING

APPLAUSE AND CHEERING

You said that you read
it when you were 12

is it required reading in Germany?

Yes, yeah you have to read
it in school because with

our past this experiment is the
perfect example how fascism

can grow or how these kind
of systems really work

and it's, so it's and it's always has been

a very popular book amongst students.

I think our aim was to tell
the story and later on

if the audience will say I
think if this must be the aim

then I would have been part of
it as well, that's the best.

Being a group, being
strong is something good

but when you're opinion
doesn't count any more

then it's real bad and that's
the moment I told Dennis

“okay now I think it's
pretty good to do it because

it's a big story and it's worth to tell”.

Well after The Wave ended
my life basically was,

I was cut off from what I
thought would be my life

I had always planned that
I would teach high school,

I would coach basketball,
I would teach history.

I would be so happy in high school,

high school is a microcosm
of life it's got all this

wonderful energy, the choir,
the teams travelling,

the big game, the proms, the
dances, the graduation,

the hope that exists in
an American high school

is something just to always be around.

But I was never allowed to teach
again following The Wave.

I'm here to give a poem called I love You.

I love you because you first loved me.

Well I'm currently teaching
poetry to the mentally disabled

population artists for the
most part and I conduct

workshops in poetry to find their voice

and it's often this intriguing unique voice.

Sunshine of my Life.

I worked my way through
high school and college

doing piping design, western
pipe and engineering

so I could have gone, that
could have been a career

but it didn't involve people so.

I wanted to teach.

That's all I ever wanted to do.

I just wanted to have
everybody turn around

and look at the back of the room and...

APPLAUSE

Strange isn't it?

Yes it is.

Why don't we say hello?

Well it is very weird. I'm
sure it is for you as well

I mean I'm sitting here for the
first time, I've been away

from Cubberley, I couldn't
even drive passed.

Cubberley for years.

It's very strange to me
that this one moment

gets extenuated to the point that it has

but I can't control that.

I can only be honest
about what I experience

as a human being and as a teacher

and try to communicate that.

I thought it was fun, I thought
it was interesting you know

interesting social experiment
I think most people sort of

realised that it wasn't real and
sometimes it seems like a lot

of people in retrospect think
it was a lot realer than I

remember it being at the time.

But I guess my other feeling
on that was that it was scary

how people who didn't believe
in it still went along with it.

You know that level of cynicism
where they felt they'd get

an A so they'd go along and
be a good Third Wave member.

I wasn't in your class but
I remember walking down

the halls and seeing the
students give the salutes

and I was frightened.

Yeah.

And I know this is an incredibly
important lesson for all of us

and it was a very potent
way of teaching it,

but would you do it that way again?

Oh no, no, no, this, you
would never do this again.

This puts people at real danger it was a,

it was a big error by
a very young teacher.

I was trying to find out
about The Third Wave

as a reporter at the time.

The people that I would
ask questions about it

would shut me down, that entire
week, they wouldn't tell me

anything about it until I
got a hold of the librarian

and she said she was going to talk to me

about it the next week.

And that Thursday, and this
is a story I've never,

I never told my mother or
anybody else, that Thursday

two members of the Car Club came in to

the journalism office and
they knocked the breath

out of me and told me not
to write about it.

Wow.

And a lot of what this is about
is realising that it's your

own ground and your own
embodiment that lets you

choose what makes sense for you to do.

It's good to be part of the
tribe, it's nice to be a part

of the village, but you need
to feel when the humanity

is being threatened and
say something right away.

If if you're speaking up then other people

can resonate with it
before it gets stamped.

Because the way you control people is

you control them physically.

And you verified the fact
that it's... you just honoured

a human being in their
efforts to do things right

and that allowed me to
have a life that was full.

Not of doubt but of
confidence, and without you

I would never have had that.

I mean there were moments when
you simply stood up and said

this teacher is a little bit crazy perhaps

but he's not dangerous.

Now I believe it was one
of the greatest lessons

I've ever been taught,
was not to be controlled,

not to do anything that you honestly

within your own heart
think you shouldn't do.

Anybody can be drawn
in and become a part

just like they did in Germany.

And I think that was the most
enlightening part about the

whole experiment was you're no
different from the next person.

Anybody who is zealous
about their cause

or anybody who's following
a charismatic leader

is to me is suspect, especially
after this experience.

I believe in middle ground
and compromise not

firmly entrenched extreme positions.

And a crowd of people with
an extreme position

I find very scary.

With the right manipulations
any population,

no matter how educated and
intelligent and liberal

liberal and free-thinking
and wanting good, you know

we all wanted good things,
we were very idealistic,

can be turned and
manipulated into something

that's... could be very dangerous.

We should be wary of being too gullible.

If Ron Jones's behaviour
after taught me anything

it's how possible it is
to manipulate the media,

especially if someone's
got charisma, writes well

and has an axe to grind
and a profit motive.

For some people the world is
filled only with prisoners

and guards, power and powerlessness.

And you have a choice, do
you want to be powerless

or do you want to be powerful?
Everybody wants to be

powerful than powerless.
And the question is

what are you willing to pay,
what are you willing to do

to go from being powerless
to be powerful.

And for most people it's an awful lot

they're willing to transgress a lot of

personal values to step across the line.

Am I glad that I experienced this?

I don't know where the
wave of emotion comes from

apropos word - but yes I'm
so incredibly grateful

for the experience and it
was so important in my life

and continues to be.

It's my belief that it's in all
of us if you are strong enough

to realise it's in you also when you say

"oh you poor fool, it could
only happen to you."

If you can turn around in
your own private moment

and say God I guess I
could have done this too,

it could have happened to me,

maybe there's some hope
that it won't happen again.

MUSIC