All language subtitles for 2022-Two Shallow Graves-The McStay Family Murders-EP2-The Missed Call-E

He murdered the McStay family.

This is my best friend of 10 years.

I would not make this up.

And this individual that you're talking
about, when you say he probably had the

wrong man, who were
you talking about that you

think could potentially
be involved in this?

Daniel Downsville.

Lo and behold, October of 2018,
we get a call from the prosecutors.

And we go to the key station there.

And they produce a witness by the name of
Tracy Riccobeni.

And Tracy Riccobeni gives a statement,
not only to us, but to the prosecutors as

well, and the detectives, and our
investigators.

She claims to be kind of an ex-girlfriend
type.

She calls Dan Kavanaugh her best friend.

And what she says is Dan Kavanaugh confessed
to her that he killed the McStay family.

Judge, let me switch gears here.

So yesterday, the defense came out with a
bombshell and said that it was another

individual, Dan Kavanaugh, who also worked
for Joseph McStay, who did these murders.

Apparently, he supposedly told this to his
girlfriend.

So do you think that will weigh with the
jury here?

Well, sure.

Any time that you have testimony to the
effect, as I understand from the defense's

opening statement, that Kavanaugh has
admitted to these killings to his

girlfriend, that is quite powerful
evidence.

We're just glad you're here, Gracie,
honestly.

And we want you to tell the truth.

References, information, okay?

Well, I think you guys are the wrong man.

Okay.

And that's what we're here to talk to you
about.

Did you ever hear Dan mention the name of
the individual in custody, Charles Merritt?

Not until two weeks ago when he told me
how he framed him.

So tell me, who is Dan Kavanaugh?

So Dan Kavanaugh was a business associate
of Joseph.

Dan Kavanaugh created the website,
but he was able to figure out the

algorithm where when you Googled water
feature or waterfall, you'd get

Earth-inspired products, which is what
Joseph's company was.

So Dan felt like he should get a certain
percentage of all of Joseph's sales

because every sale that went through the
website is what Dan created.

I know Joseph wanted to cut Dan out of the
business because he felt like he was

giving him money for nothing.

My understanding of Tracy's relationship
with Dan is that at some point,

they were in some kind of dating
relationship.

You do look at yourself and go,
oh, shit, right?

But then once that gut-punch
feeling goes away, a prosecutor

is always out to do the right
thing to seek justice in a case.

And if that justice is contrary
to what you originally thought

because a new piece of
evidence comes up, then so be it.

But you run with it and you figure it out.

And that's what we had to do in this case.

He murdered the McStay family.

This is my best friend of ten years.

I would not make this up.

He started with Summer.

He raped Summer.

And had a rope around her neck.

And he was wielding a Swiss Army-type
switchblade.

And then he told Joseph, go take a hike
with the kids.

And he told Summer to assume the position.

Told her to get on her knees, you know.

He raped her.

And then, um, said he came twice.

And then, so there should be DNA inside
the grave somewhere.

I don't know.

It's just a very odd story that you can
threaten someone with a Swiss Army knife,

rape them, while you're telling the
husband to take a hike and presumably he

comes back so he can be killed as well?

Is that what we're supposed to believe?

Of course, the prosecution is going to say
that she learned all of this, you know,

from watching media reports or watching
shows about the case.

But in reality, she shared some
information that Dan told her that was

information that only, I think,
the killer would know.

Things that have not been published.

You need to look in the shower for DNA,
okay?

What's in the shower that he said,
since your men's in the shower?

I don't know.

He told me.

He had muddy shoes, okay?

He was dirty.

He took a shower.

The fact is, on
February 5th, there was a

huge rainstorm, and
that softened the ground.

And that is consistent with what Tracy
Rico Benny said, that when Dan came back,

after he buried the bodies, he was covered
in mud.

That, to me, was pretty
significant in the sense

that that wasn't really
known to the public.

How would anyone know that it was raining?

I'm not an accomplice to murder or
anything over here, you know?

If you guys try to leverage
me with any kind of charge,

I will fucking not even
talk after that, you know?

You guys can Zipino me.

But I need witness protection,
for one, okay?

And for me to even testify on these
people.

Uh...

Nothing...

Literally nothing she says jives with what
is there, what has happened.

And...

Ultimately believed there was absolutely
no credibility whatsoever to it.

So...

We had gone down to actually
interview her, and her behavior

that day was so out there,
and she was just bizarre.

And I just remember, I'm looking up at her
face, and I could see a lot of marks,

to me, that are indicative of somebody
that's using drugs.

Like, she was definitely out of the
influence.

And so I think it was
quite clear that she very

clearly was unstable,
and she wasn't credible.

It's pretty easy to say that somebody's
not credible because they did drugs in the

past or something of that nature,
but the only reason that they would

discount that and not research it further,
I believe, is because they felt like they

had tidied up their loose ends already,
and had a case against Chase.

It was just so much easier to tie it up
in a red bow and say they're done, right?

I just need to keep the blood flowing.

I get cooped up in my office.

It's too...

It makes me crazy.

So I gotta get out of there.

So we went...

We have a witness that essentially says
that Dan Kavanaugh confessed to her,

confessed to killing the McStay family.

You know, she's very...
She's very scared of him.

She says, you know, that he's capable of,
you know, doing extreme violence.

But, you know, I think she's important.

But I don't wanna take away from the good
case that I think that we have now.

I'm putting someone up that might,
you know, seem a little too wacky for,

you know, for the jury.

And I don't want the jury to think that
we're trying to do anything that's,

you know, not proper
or not ethical or whatever,

because she is kind of all
over the place right now.

A witness like that can
somehow make a difference,

maybe, but more often
than not, it backfires.

And it's almost like we're grasping now at
anybody who says anything.

So we made a decision not to call her for
that reason.

I mean, we didn't feel we needed her.

Yeah, we're gonna try to get Dan Kavanaugh
off with him.

Because the DA has not really given us a
lot of information about where he is,

his latest location, which is what they're
required to do.

And we're gonna send
our investigator out there to

try and serve him, you
know, and get him in here.

We know the DA obviously
is not gonna bring him

down, so it's incumbent
upon us to get him in here.

And I think he's probably gonna try to
dodge us as best he can.

I would imagine.

But we'll see how that works out.

We then go to try to find him,
and we can't.

And we have our investigator
in San Diego looking

everywhere for him, and
he's nowhere to be found.

He's literally gone.

All the known places that he would
frequent.

Nothing.

Yes, Catherine Jarvis.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, Ms. Jarvis.

Do you know Charles Merritt?

Yes, of course.

And how do you know him?

Um, we dated, we lived together,
and we had children together.

When Chase was arrested
for this, we were all

shocked, because I didn't
believe that he did do it.

Like, it doesn't make sense.

When I met him, he was wearing a cowboy
hat.

Boots and all, you know, cowboy attire.

And, you know, I thought he was
attractive.

I actually hit her with my cue stick.

She thought I was an arrogant ass.

I don't know if he did it on purpose or
not.

I went and asked her to dance.

He was interesting, charming.

And it just progressed from there.

Within, uh, just a few months,
our first was conceived, Taylor.

We were together for pushing 20 years.

We're not together now, but we're still
extremely good friends.

She's probably the best friend I have in
the world.

She's extremely good mother.

I've got three kids that are absolutely
incredible.

I've never seen him act violently,
even when he's angry.

Like, I remember shoving him up against a
bookcase.

Just, I was so angry, and he never laid a
hand on me.

I just can't see him, you know,
doing anything like that.

Hi, Dad.

So, I didn't tell you this a couple days
ago.

Um, I got a letter in the mail from
Southwestern.

Apparently, they heard Loyola and
Pepperdine had offered me full tuition.

Um, so I got a letter from them that
changed their offer from $100,000,

which is what they originally offered,
uh, to a full ride.

Yeah.

Throughout all of high school,
I had my heart set on forensic science.

I only got through a year of community
college before all this happened with my dad.

I ended up taking a year off of school
because I wasn't sure if I wanted to work

within a system that I didn't really trust
anymore.

I kind of came to realize that if I wanted
to change anything in the criminal justice

system, probably the best way would be to
work within it.

So, I want to do criminal defense.

I definitely got my sense of
humor from my dad because he's

always making really bad jokes,
which is fine because he's a dad.

Also, he set a really good example of just
how to be a good person.

He's never had to convince us that he was
innocent because we all knew.

So, most of the conversation after he was
arrested was, how do we get you back home?

All right.

Love you, too.

Love you, too.

Me, too.

All right.

Bye.

Okay.

Bye.

It's just a waiting game.

Going back to the QuickBooks records,
I'm going to show you for 2040.

And if you can show us
on here where you see that

Mr. Merritt or Charles
Merritt was added as a vendor.

On February 1st, 2010, 12, 24 p.m., user
Joseph McStay added vendor Charles Merritt.

And when you say user Joseph McStay,
you don't know who's behind the computer,

right?

I don't know.

I

want to look at some QuickBooks things.

Okay.

Maybe you can help explain it.

Hmm.

So, it looks like February
1st is when Chase

created two checks
and deleted those checks.

Then on the 2nd, created two checks,
deleted two checks.

Then on the 4th, added check, deleted
check, added check.

Yeah, it just, I don't know.

Who's going to create a check for Charles
Merritt other than Charles Merritt, right?

February 4th, that's when something
clearly happened.

What exactly?

There's a lot of unanswered questions.

Looking at the phone records, I think what
happened was, Charles Merritt got fired

that day, that Joseph found
out that he was stealing from

him, because on the way to
the meeting, he called his bank.

You know, Merritt's explanation was,
we met.

I got a stack of checks from him.

We talked about the business plans for
this other job we had.

I had access to writing checks.

Did it often.

And from the very first time I had an
interview with San Diego, I said,

when Joseph and I met on the 4th,
he had given me checks.

We discussed when I was going to write
them.

Boy, when I heard that, I knew,
nah, that's not going to fly.

Joey's not going to give him blank checks.

There's no way.

Mm-mm.

This would be a check
that Joseph McStay had

written to you for $3,000
on November 1st of 2008.

Is that correct?

Yes.

And you indicated at the time that you
were renting a house, right?

Yes.

And was your rent due on the 1st of every
month?

Yes.

Because we see down
in the line it says 4, and

then it says Chase SOS
exclamation point, right?

Yes.

Do you know what that means?

Chase muted it right away.

When I first came onto
the case, one of the things I

started doing was looking
at Merritt's bank records.

And I was a little bit
floored because I saw all

these withdrawals that
were occurring at a casino.

It was close to somewhere around $15,000
that had been taken out at casinos.

And I don't see any other income that came
in besides what he got from Joseph.

And by November of
2009, the account was

forcibly closed by the
bank and was overdrawn.

So at this point, I'm like, wow,
this is a significant gambling problem.

So the gambling addiction led him to the
money mismanagement that led him to

ultimately trying to steal money from
Joseph.

Because, you know, he's got a family,
he's got expenses, he's got rent,

things like that.

And that was the only way he had to get
out from under that.

Their strategy was to just kind of poo-poo
him.

Pound fist, shout, indignant, blah,
blah, blah, gambler, throw in gambler

every other word, and you got yourself a
case.

I mean, that's essentially what they were
saying.

He's a degenerate gambler, owed him money,
all these ridiculous things.

From a forensic accounting point of view,
I would give her cross an F minus.

From an effective, misleading,
scored jury points perspective,

I'd give her an A.

February 4th was the last time you talked
to him.

Absolute last time I talked to him.

The last time I talked to him was
actually, so I'm there.

The last time I talked to him,
he left here, went home.

Chick-fil-A.

Right.

And what time was that?

You know, I can't remember the exact time,
but it was middle afternoon.

It is really clear from the
evidence that that family of

four dropped off the face
of the earth on February 4th.

Coincidentally, after some type of meeting
or confrontation at the Chick-fil-A

earlier in the day, Merritt's cell phone
goes off-grid.

There's no activity for three and a half
to four hours until you get to

nine-something when he comes back onto the
grid.

So that meeting happens, which is a
confrontational meeting, and I think the

argument continued
down in their house in

Fallbrook, and that's
where it turned physical.

I think eventually Chase grabbed the
sledgehammer, and he knocked Joseph

unconscious or killed him right then and
there.

I think once he kills Joey, he realizes he
has to kill Summer and the boys too.

When Joseph and I separated, that was the
last time I saw him.

I had nothing to do with this.

The way they came about
a timeline of the death and

the burial was almost
exclusively on my records.

They're assuming these crimes happened at
these particular times because that's when

I'm not getting any phone calls,
and that's basically the evidence,

that that's when the crime happened.

All of a sudden, I'm thrown into this,
and it's like somebody's gonna realize,

wait, we made a mistake, you know?

But by the time the
arraignment got here, I realized

nobody was gonna step up
and say, we made a mistake.

You know, so the reality was much...

It was much heavier.

It was daunting to say the least.

On the 4th of February, did Chase remain
at home that day?

Do you recall?

In the evening, yes.

I mean, he was home during the day.

At some point, did he...
Did Chase come home?

Yes.

Was it light outside or dark outside?

It was light outside.

Okay.

My girlfriend, who lived with me at the
time, told the detectives that I was...

that I had gotten home
sometime between 5

and 7 p.m., which is
pretty much when it was.

But I didn't leave after that.

And that's true.

Now, was there a phone call that Chase
received in the evening hours?

Yes.

Do you recall when that was?

Um, it was after dark.

Um, 7 o'clock.

And do you know who the call was from?

Yes.

Who?

Joseph.

How do you know?

Um, it said on his... on Chase's display.

When Joseph called that night, the
phone was on the counter in the kitchen.

I was on one side of the
bar in the kitchen, and Chase

was in the living room area
on the other side of the bar.

And I looked up at the phone to see,
you know, Joseph calling.

And he looked over and was like,
it's just Joseph.

And I've already talked
to him a million times

today, and, you know,
not answering the phone.

You know, I'll just call him tomorrow.

I'm like, why do you do that?

Why do you put stuff off?

You could just handle it now.

We had fought about it before,
because there were times when,

probably even when I called, that he
didn't answer.

Merit's ex-girlfriend,
who's the mother of the

couple's three children,
spoke out tonight after court.

I know he's not guilty, because he was
with me the night that they went missing.

Uh, the whole time period
that they're talking about,

the entire weekend, he
was in and out of the house.

Kathy was his alibi.

She was the alibi witness to say,
he was home on that night.

So, for me, it was important
to show that he wasn't home,

and that the evidence didn't
support him being home.

Just returning briefly to
the phone records from

the 4th on 439C, which
we have up on the screen.

You indicated that the defendant got a
phone call that night from Joseph, right?

Yes.

And that was sometime around 8 or 8.30?

Yes.

And these are the defendant's phone
records.

Can you show me where that call is on
here?

No.

Why?

Because it's not on there.

That night, you know,
this last call on Joseph's

phone to Chase never
shows up on Chase's phone.

She may believe with all
of her heart she saw that call,

but, you know, it didn't happen
the night they went missing.

There's no evidence of that.

In order for a phone to ring that many
times and you saying, hey, it's Joseph,

aren't you going to pick it up?

There's no way that call wouldn't have
registered on his bill.

Our belief was that there was a brief
phone call that was made so that it

actually registered on Joseph's phone,
but not on Merit's phone.

After he killed Joseph,
he took his phone,

called himself before
he got rid of the phone.

The stuff that he was saying physically
did not happen.

I don't remember the phone call at all.

I don't remember it ringing.

I don't remember St. Joseph's name.

I remember nothing about it.

The only reason I know that it occurred is
because Kathy has a good memory and she

told me it happened, so I believe her,
but I don't remember it.

Now, if I'm trying to establish an alibi,
why would I come back and then say,

I don't ever remember getting that phone
call?

I would say, oh yeah, he called.

Sure.

He called me at 8.30.

But I never said that.

I always, I was adamant.

I don't remember that phone call.

Do you think we would be here talking
today if you had picked up that phone call?

Um, that's a very, very good question.

I should answer my flippin' phone.

And you were trying to
get a hold of the defendant

from between basically
609 to 904, right?

Yes.

And it's your testimony
that the defendant was

home at that time when
you made those calls?

I believe so, yes.

Yes.

And where was he?

I don't know.

He could have been someplace else on the
property.

Such as?

Such as the business center at the
clubhouse.

So for three hours, you're
trying to get a hold of him,

but you couldn't walk to
the clubhouse at 256 feet?

His phone was off the grid at this time.

So, you know, if you were trying to get a
hold of somebody for essentially a

three-hour period, it just
doesn't make any sense

that you wouldn't just
walk down to the clubhouse.

Because I think at some point,
you would get to be a little bit concerned

if somebody tells you they're,
you know, right around the corner from

you, and you've called so many times,
and they're not answering.

That would be pure speculation.

Phone's off.

So he has to be doing X, Y, and Z.

Okay.

Phone's off.

He was also planning to kill the
president.

Phone's off.

You just make up any story you want.

And that's what they were doing.

It was just inventing stories without
evidence because they had no evidence.

That could mean a number of things.

that it's in airplane mode.

Battery could be dead.

That means it could not be recognized by a
tower.

The cell service is not working on your
phone.

I think at that point, you're
dealing with a woman who's going

to say anything that she
can, even if it's not the truth.

When you get on the
stand, don't hesitate

to say that on the
stand if that's the case.

Because I know for a fact, now that I go
back over everything, I was home.

We believed he was maybe
trying to persuade the witnesses,

maybe talking about
something pertinent to the trial.

So we ended up having
to put recording devices

in his visiting booths
to capture those visits.

And that's kind of what
really led us to see how

he was trying to influence
Cathy specifically.

When you go in for a
visit into the jail facility,

there's a phone on one side
and a phone on the other side.

And there's some plexiglass in the middle,
and you pick up the phone and you have the

conversation with whoever is on the other
side.

And there's not an expectation of privacy
when you visit with somebody.

And it says that this call is being
recorded.

He would circumvent that.

And the way that he would do that is they
would yell through the plexiglass.

So the opportunity came before Cathy was
going to testify.

And it was basically Ryan
Smith who miked both sides of

the booth so that the
conversation could be recorded.

And when you had
visits with the defendant in

person, you would talk
through the glass, right?

Yes, on his patient.

And that's because the defendant didn't
want anything recorded, right?

Speculation.

And he talked to you about some stuff that
you were supposed to testify about,

right?

He mentioned stuff that might be coming
up.

And he told you that you've got to
remember that, right?

Yes.

So isn't it true that when you met with
the defendant, you went over the specifics

of that, what you were supposed to testify
about?

No.

No.

No.

Your Honor, at this time, the people would
request a play to call.

We would request a publish to the jury.

Did you meet with Raj?

No.

He came...

He came and saw me, went over some of the
stuff about you, wanted to know what...

I wanted him to ask you and what...

maybe you should try to remember,
things like that.

When you get on the
stand, you're going to be

asked specifically, do
you know about this?

Yes.

You know, you don't have to go into big
detail.

I tell Raj, you just need to leave me.

And he will.

You know, he's good.

They said, he wasn't home, he was...

remember that?

And you tried to call him five times...

during the evening?

He wouldn't... you wouldn't be trying
to call him if he was home, would you?

Don't... don't hesitate to say
that, on the stand, if that's the case.

Because...

I know for a fact, now that I go back over
everything, I was home.

Oh, I was pissed.

I wanted her to get up and slap with Ms.
Rodriguez.

But they used it to try to say,
oh, he was trying to influence Kathy.

Prosecution has completely misinterpreted,
misconstrued 80 or 90% of my words.

Those recordings, and then it was played.

The mood of the defense team changed.

Up to that point, we thought this case was
ours to lose.

At that point, we had done everything
right.

When that came out, we said, that impacts
not only Kathy, but us.

It paints us in a light that's not
accurate.

That was not what we were doing.

It was not a good day.

All the credibility we tried to build.

And it got destroyed.

That day.

The cause of death was determined to be
blunt force trauma.

And based on the entire investigation and
the evidence obtained, investigators

believe these murders occurred at their
residence in Fallbrook.

There was no physical evidence in the
house.

It was damaging to the case, in my
opinion.

State your full name, spell it for the
record.

Joseph Sears,
J-O-S-E-P-H-S-E-S-E-S-E-T-O-M-E-E-R-X.

What is your acquisition, sir?

I'm sorry for the San Diego County
Sheriff's Department.

After reviewing the San Diego
investigation, all their reports and

photographs, and you returning to the
house, doing your test, is there anything

in that house that you have found,
you have read, or you have seen that tells

you those murders happened in the
Fallbrook house?

Yes.

Did you see any evidence that shows you
that the crime happened in that house?

No.

But you believe it did?

No.

Without evidence?

That's your argument, it is sustained.

Isn't it true that if you can't find
evidence to make that murder happen in the

house, you can't prove a case to make that
murder happen?

Objection?

That's argumentative.

The suicide is not evidence and legal
conclusions.

This thing...

All their affidavits say the murders
happened.

They're like, yeah, this happened in the
house.

You have a belief.

This is what you want the truth to be.

You have no evidence that supports it,
but you're still gonna support that belief.

The bottom line is
this did not resemble a

crime scene where a
family of four was killed.

And so that was a, you know, a big hole in
their case.

And if you have a crime scene where the
family's basically slaughtered at the

house, there's gonna be an awful lot of
blood everywhere.

During preparation for trial, Mr.
Dougherty actually was kind of thumbing

through the photographs that we were gonna
use for exhibits.

And for whatever reason, he zoomed in on a
portion of the table by the remote.

When Sean found this,
it was, oh my God, come

see, come look at what,
tell me what you see.

And we just kind of went, oh my God.

They saw what they thought was blood
spatter on the table.

And now that I'm looking at a picture that
was taken that close, that sure as,

sure as heck looks like blood to me.

Blood spatter.

I mean, I don't know how you could call
that anything else.

It would lead you to believe that
something violent happened.

And this picture here...

I mean, this one just absolutely looks
like blood.

Blood spatter.

I don't know how you could say it was
anything but.

It was basically new evidence.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was crazy to me
because, um, it just seems

like such a travesty
that this was missed.

That, to me, was one of
the biggest things in the

trial that got to me
when they pulled this out.

Because, you know, the defense opened
their case by saying, you know,

there's not a single bit of evidence in
the house that anything like this happened.

And then the prosecution was able to say,
are you sure?

Speak your full name and spell it for the
record.

It was Dennis Williams.

D-E-N-Y-S Williams.

W-I-L-L-I-A-M-S.

D-E-N-Y-S.

D-E-N-Y-S.

D-E-N-Y-S.

D-E-N-Y-S.

D-E-N-Y-S.

D-E-N-Y-S.

D-E-N-Y-S.

D-E-N-Y-S.

D-E-N-Y-S.

D-E-N-Y-S.

D-E-N-Y-S.

D-E-N-Y-S.

D-E-N-Y-S.

D-E-N-Y-S.

D-E-N-Y-S.

D-E-N-Y-S.

With your experience of
processing crime scenes,

did you have a belief
of what it could be?

I thought it could be blunt.

She was really kind
of beating herself up

about, had I seen that,
I would have tested it.

I can't believe I missed that.

We circulated it with a whole bunch of
people and they said, could be,

looks like it.

There's no way I could say that though,
because I don't know.

Just like Ms. Williams.

She looked ashamed, to be honest,
like, oh God, how did we miss that?

And like, why?

And then, you know,
even if they missed it in the

moment, didn't they have
these photos to look back on?

This is probably the only
thing that they found that would

show that anything would
have happened in that house.

For us, it was really an unfortunate thing
that was missed.

If that had actually been tested at the
time and there was a realization that it

was blood, this entire case would be
different.

I'm

not a blood spatter examiner.

That takes some more training than I have.

But I have had classes and it works
better.

And to me, it looked like...

I'm going to object to the foundation if
she's not an expert.

She's the same.

This is not blood.

It's just the bottom line.

It's just not blood.

Clearly, it's the nature of the
wood and the natural staining

or the staining of this
particular design or whatever.

There were so many people that had tables
with that stain on it.

Like, this is something you
can go to, you know, Levitt's

Furniture and see a table
with that same stain pattern.

We were inundated with
emails and social media

comments that we have,
oh, I'll send you my table.

The idea that they
all missed it and that

somehow could be blood
is a preposterous idea.

It's simply untrue.

The San Diego Sheriff's Department
investigated.

They were there in the house.

The kicker was, this table was
the table sitting in the middle

of the room that was used as a
command post for the officers.

And they all missed it.

So, prosecution wanting to allow a jury to
speculate that that could be blood,

that's the problem.

And that should not have been allowed.

Clearly, it's not blood.

It's presenting falsehoods intentionally
in front of a jury.

So, it allows them to
speculate on something

that they shouldn't
be speculating about.

And there's no evidence to back it up.

It was unethical.

I will say that I think Raj Malin,
out of the two of them, probably felt like

the brain power was more than he could
handle.

I definitely think there was probably some
intimidation, at least on his level,

about the brain power on that side.

I think it was blood.

I really do.

But what gets me is, for the life of me,
what happened to the table?

When Susan and Michael and him go in to
clean the house up because it's going to

be foreclosed on, what happened to the
table?

A little bit more.

I've had...

I've had a lot of the government on this
side, but...