All language subtitles for John.Wayne.Gacy.Devil.in.Disguise.S01E01.1080p.WEB.h264-KOGi_track3_[eng]

My question would be to you
right off the bat is why,

after so many years
of silence,

never having a media interview
and people have said

that you have given them
interviews in years past

Well, that’s hogwash.
That’s strictly hogwash.

I’m constantly told
that I, I’m misquoted

constantly saying
that I said this

and I said
that that’s not happened.

So that’s pretty well
established on this.

This is the first time
you’re speaking publicly

about your case.

Right. I’ve always felt

that my attorneys
were handling it

and they said to keep a low
profile and stay away from it.

And, uh, in light of all
that has been used

against me in the media,

they’ve created this fantasy
monster image

and it’s been going on
for the last 12 years

and I’ve ever had no comment.

And I had no need
to talk to the media

for the simple reason that they
were looking for sensationalism

and they were looking
for the monster.

When you say fantasy
monster image,

what are you referring
to by that?

Well, the idea that
I’m a homosexual thrill killer

and all that, that garbage and
they painted this image of me

that, like
I stroll down the streets

and stalked young boys
and slaughtered them.

Hell, if you could see
my schedule, my work schedule,

you know damn well that I was
never out there.

Well you, you were

now, you were indicted,
convicted and sentenced

on thirty-three counts of
homicide. Is that correct?

That’s correct.

Police digging under a house
in Des Plaines, Illinois,

found four more bodies today.

The owner of the house,
a man named John Wayne Gacy,

is suspected of having killed

as many as thirty
two teenage boys

and burying most of them under
and around his house and garage.

But the story, of course,
is far from over.

Investigators know there
are bodies or parts of bodies

still to be dug out
of this muddy crawl space.

Police have been answering
hundreds of telephone calls

from the families
of missing teenage boys

all over the country.

Before the murders, Gacy was
well-respected in his community.

He was active in local politics

and even dressed up as a clown
to entertain children.

He’s a very good neighbor
and we socialize with him.

In December 1978,

the disappearance
of a 15 year old boy led police

to Gacy’s suburban Chicago
home.

In the weeks that followed.

Police found 29 bodies
buried in shallow graves

under his home and near it.

Police also found four bodies
in nearby streams.

You see bodies in your sleep,
you see him in your sleep.

It’s just too much.

It was December of 1978,

I was getting ready
to do my laundry

and I was watching TV.

Today, police found four more
bodies

in John Gacy’s
suburban Chicago home.

And saw the news flash

about bodies being found
under a house in Chicago.

One of John Gacy’s neighbors
said all of this

is like a nightmare.

And I was dumbfounded.

It’s like,
could one person do this?

I probably first wrote
to him in 83, 84, 1988,

John finally responded
to one of my letters,

and from there
we started corresponding

and talking on the phone.

I thought I was gonna do
either a book

or, you know, a short film.

But my interest was more
on a personal level.

I wanted to ask him

why?

I started recording
my phone calls with Gacy

simply because
I couldn’t take notes very fast.

This call is subject
to being monitored and recorded.

Hang up to decline
or dial five five to accept.

By the end of 88?
You know,

we were talking sometimes
four and five times a week.

In January of 1989,
I flew into St. Louis

and went to
Menard Correctional Facility,

which is in the very southern
tip of Illinois.

And I started visiting him,
which I did every three months

for three days at a time.
For six years.

Gacy’s the one
who wanted an interview. And,

Of course, the Department
of Corrections

didn’t want that at all.
They didn’t want to give Gacy

any more attention
than they had to and they didn’t

You know, who am I am nobody.

And then, oddly enough,
Gacy said oh well you have

to talk to my good friend
who works at the FBI.

And I said, who’s that?
And he goes, Robert Ressler.

Bob Ressler helped establish
the FBI’s behavioral unit

that investigates
serial killers.

I think Mr. Gacy
enjoys control.

He enjoys power and dominance
over other people.

These are some of the base
criterias for a serial killer.

Robert Ressler was a
special agent at the FBI.

He basically coined
the phrase serial killer.

Bob grew up in Chicago

and he was in Chicago
when Gacy was arrested.

So he was involved from the very
beginning. The FBI academy,

reached out to many serial
killers to do interviews,

kind of to educate students
back at the academy.

And Bob did most of
those interviews.

In 1989,

I contacted Bob.

I said, would you be
interested

in doing an interview?
Because that may be the way

the Department of Corrections
will say yes.

So that’s how it started.

Ressler and Gacy
taped their interview

in the morning of May 4th, 1992.

It must have been a big deal
for them to bring John

from one secure area to another.

There are a couple shots
where it’s like, you know,

a scene from a Christmas Carol

dragging the chains,
walking through.

It was frightening.

We used the warden’s office,

he very generously gave us
his office to do the interview
in.

Yeah, I was going to ask you

in so far as sound goes,
if I’m down with my head,

does that hurt
your sound quality?

No, it’s OK. Just don’t, try
to move around too much.

If you break into song
give em a cue.

I aint gonna break into
any song.

John’s sitting there at the
table

with his little stack
of information and I said,

so can can we take
the handcuffs off?

And the warden looks
at the guard.

The guard looks at the warden
and they go, Yeah, why not?

First time I had ever
seen John without handcuffs.

And so then I immediately said
to the cameraman,

anything that starts to get slow
or dull cut to his hands.

There’s going to be
a tell there somewhere.

And we’ll go into
the lead in as to

as you know,
you were at 1978.

Yeah. You were present.
Yeah.

OK, that’s that’s the way
I’d like to start.

And I’d like to kind of go

Well what do you got there?
Let’s see your list.

I’d just like to go through
the generalities,

maybe talk about
the background of the thing.

The the, uh, the original case.

John is a master manipulator.

He comes across as

so damn normal.

Uh, bleeping of the language.

I will watch the language.
He’s going to try.

John does tend to slip
into

Well I,

I call it as I see it,

and some people can’t understand
that.

We’re learning so much now

that we would never
have known at the time.

Are you going to talk first?

Yeah, I’ll kind of introduce

Parts that I missed

or didn’t know about.
Or didn’t want to think about.

This should be
the definitive story

and not just about Gacy,

but it’s about the families
that were affected,

the victims.

Hopefully
making some sense

about some of the loose ends.

It takes time
for history to happen.

All right, so whenever the hell
they’re ready.

In 1978, when
the Gacy story broke,

I was a general
assignment reporter

and a weekend anchor at ABC
Seven in Chicago.

Chicago was a dream job for me.
Reporters, news people,

the people
that the folks of Chicago

invited into their homes

every night
were treated very, very well.

And if you go back to the days
of the front page

when journalism
was king in Chicago

and there were eight newspapers,

Chicago was the epicenter
of great news coverage.

I remember the moment very,
very well.

I walked into my apartment on
East Randolph Street in Chicago

and the phone was ringing.
I picked up the phone

and it was the person
who would become a major source

for this story
for years to come.

The source said get to 82-
13 West Summerdale right away.

I guarantee it’ll be worth it.
And that began one of

the most incredible stories
I’ve ever covered.

82 13 West Summerdale

is in a neighborhood
called Norwood Park Township,

just outside of the community of
Norwich on Chicago’s West Side.

I’ve been given very,
very sketchy information

about what I was
about to walk into.

It was something
about bodies buried.

So it’s now 11:30, 12 at night,

there’s no newscast
until the next morning.

This was well before the days
of the internet and Twitter

and getting something
quickly on the internet

before anybody else
got to it.

1978

was a time when there
were murders in Chicago,

but there were more drug related
murders, gang related murders.

That neighborhood
wasn’t one you

usually associated
with violence.

It was a working
class neighborhood

which was basically quiet
most of the time.

So to have something
like that out

there was certainly unusual,
if not unheard of.

December in Chicago
is not fun for anybody.

And this was a cold December,

but you can endure
almost anything

if the story is big enough.

This was something the likes
of which I had never seen.

That from now until
the day I die,

I will be able to remember

and be able to feel and touch
and see and smell.

When I got to the scene,

I believe I was
the only reporter there,

but as the night wore on,

word started to get out
and others arrived.

By morning, the story
had started to come out.

The first name to surface
was Rob Piest.

He was the trigger
to the whole investigation.

Rob Piest was working
at a pharmacy in Des Plaines

when all of a sudden
he disappeared.

Joe Kozenczak
and his fellow detectives

on the Des Plaines police force

weren’t out to make history
or write the book

on serial killers
on December 12th, 1978.

They were just looking
for a missing boy.

As I was looking through the
police reports on December 12th,

I noticed the missing persons
case report of a young boy.

People say policemen have
a gut instinct. In this case,

that’s how I’d have
to describe it.

I just felt there was
something in this case

that we should look
at closer.

I was with the Des Plaines
Illinois Police Department.

I started there in 1972.

I got a call
from Captain Kozenczak

on the 13th of December.

Rob Piest, 15 year old boy
from Des Plaines

had gone missing
under unusual circumstances.

Late in the day
and the 11th of December,

his mother had come
to his place of employment,

which was a pharmacy
in Des Plaines,

picking him up
at the end of his workday.

Rob Piest had come out
and spoke with his mom

and said, hey, listen,
I’ll be done in a few minutes.

I’ve got this contractor
that I want to talk to.

I understand he’s hiring
and I could probably

make substantially more
than I’m making here.

So if you don’t mind,
I’ll just be a few minutes.

I’m going to go talk to this guy
and I’ll be right back.

He was pretty excited
about it,

and I told him there’d be no
problem

that I’d wait for him.

And that was the last
I saw of him.

A little after 9:00,

mom was waiting
for him to return.

He didn’t return.

After Rob didn’t show up,

Mr. and Mrs. Piest
searched all around

Des Plaines frantically
looking for him.

Rob Piest was very,
very close to his family.

They were going to celebrate the
mother’s birthday that night.

And at that point,
the Piest family launched

a full court press

into the disappearance
of a child

who to them was inconceivable
to have disappeared.

We knew something was wrong.
So from there,

we went to the police and filed
a missing persons report.

Missing persons back
in that era,

and even now are pretty much
a dime a dozen.

We’ll get a call
of a missing person

and they most likely
have run away previously

or had problems in school

or with the family
or something like that.

It was totally different
with Rob Piest.

I mean, he was like
a really good kid.

He enjoyed school.
He enjoyed his family.

So it was really unusual
for him to go missing.

When the police report
was being taken,

the desk officer overheard
the mother make a statement

to the father saying,

I wonder who the contractor guy
was.

That, to me

and he just jumped out like,
who is this?

And they did a little
background work on this.

Find out that the contractor

that was there was a gentleman
by the name of John Wayne Gacy

and his expertise is
he remodels pharmacies.

Now, give me kind of

just an overview of the business
that you eventually established.

The construction work.
Is this self-taught?

The construction and
maintenance work?

I started doing painting,

and then I started doing
wallpapering and decorating.

And inside of three years
PDM, which is painting,

decorating and maintenance,

was doing
a million dollars a year.

And that was-

and I only had four
employees.

And that was the business
you were in

at the time of the arrests?

That’s correct.

PDM in nineteen seventy
four became a corporation

and then I owned
PDM Contractors Corporation.

I own PDM Plumbing,
PDM Concrete and PDM Decorating.

And then I branched off
with another partner

into Raphco Construction.

And from there we were doing
strictly drugstores.

John was successful in his,
you know,

remodeling business
of drugstores.

He was very good
at chatting up the proprietor,

suggesting how to lay, you know,
lay out the store

so that people would see
more products and buy something.

And, you know,

he hired teenagers
to do the work.

I worked for John’s
business PDM contractors

in the summer of 1975
and then sporadically into 76.

He was a decent boss.
He’d like to joke around,

he was a little bit heavyset,
so he kind of had, you know,

the aura of being jovial
and joking around

and seemed to not take things
too seriously.

When I was working there,
I think there was about four

or five of us
that were working for him

and the age was all sixteen,
which was how old

I was up to about 19
or 20 for the older guys.

I think everyone was in about
that four or five year age span.

I think he utilized
young boys

or adolescent boys
in his business

because, yes, they were cheaper
than if he hired perhaps

a real carpenter,
a union carpenter.

He was always looking
for inexpensive labor.

And, you know,
young boys provided

that. At least at that time
that’s what we thought.

You know, thinking back, yes,
I should have been

much more unnerved
and afraid, but I wasn’t.

Part of his success in that
was his demeanor,

you know, people can put
on two different fronts.

Because obviously,
he was a monster.

When the investigators
started out,

they learned from the
Piest family

that Rob was going to go talk
to John Gacy about a job,

and that’s the last
he had been seen.

Well we were just in shock.

We couldn’t eat,
couldn’t sleep.

We didn’t know
what happened to him.

We knew it was not of his own
choosing because he loved us.

He loved his home.

If there was any way for him
to come home, he would.

So we knew something
really had happened.

We had no idea at that time

it would turn
into something like this.

When you’re on a story
like this,

in addition to covering who,

where, when, why, what happened,
you also start to say, OK.

Who else knew about this?

Did the guy
do anything before?

Is there a police record?

Is there something
we can find out?

We started to call
this person

to find out what was going on,

and he gave his name
as John Wayne Gacy,

and stated that he didn’t know
anything about any missing kids

from the drug store.
He was a little,

defensive and based on that,

we wanted to pursue him
a little further.

We were trying to do
some background record checks,

but in 1978, you know,
it’s not like it is today.

instantaneously, you get
a criminal history,

you can find out
everything you want.

In 1978, the Chicago
Police Department

had a file called
the Alpha File,

and they would,

based on what you told them,
search these files by hand.

We called Chicago
Police Department.

And said we’re trying to find
out more about this guy

we’re looking at,
can you help us?

Do you have
any criminal history

on him on record?

And this Police officer said

the guy’s on parole to Chicago

from the state of Iowa.
He served prison time.

He was convicted of sodomy
of a young boy.

And the hair stood up
on the back of our necks.

When they found that he had
been arrested in Iowa

for sexually molesting
a young boy.

That obviously
threw some flags up.

They put together a couple
of detectives later that evening

and went looking for Gacy.
And when they got to his home.

He was getting ready
to leave.

Now they did not search the
house at that time

or look through the house.

No, according - afterwards,

they’re claiming that they came
to the front door of the house

and knocked on the door
and that I hid from them.

Why didn’t you let them in
at that time

when they’re knocking
at the front door?

There was no way
I could have heard them,

I was way in the back
of the house, in the rec room,

on the telephone.
When they walked,

finally walked around
the side of the house,

I could look out the picture
window, see them there,

because I was on the phone

and they could see me
clearly, too,

sitting on the couch
on the telephone

because I was talking
to my sister

in regards to a death
in our family.

So I told her
that I would call her back,

got up,
went to the door

and he introduced himself
as Kozenczak and Pickell

and they wanted to come in and
talk to me about Robert Piest.

And I told them that I had not
had any conversation with him,

but I said, if you want to talk
to me, then come back there.

We just pushed him a little.

We said, we need you to come
in the police station,

give us a witness statement
about what you did see

when you were at the drugstore
and he said, I don’t have time.

I can’t I can’t do that now.

And they wanted me to
come down to the police station.

OK, well, I didn’t have time
because I was doing work

for the county
and stuff like that.

As soon as we left
Gacy’s house,

he attempted to flee
from the area,

running to his car and driving
away at a high rate of speed.

Now who does that right?

I had decided, based on Gacy’s
actions- trying to run from us,

and his attitude in the house,

that I was going to try
to get a search warrant.

Went into the police station
finally on the next day

after- this was after Kozenczak
and Pickell were at the house.

They had asked me to come in

and give me an account
of my whereabouts.

When Gacy came
into the station,

it was my job to entertain him
for a couple hours

because he was only there
for to be interviewed.

We couldn’t detain him,
but we didn’t want him to leave

until we got the search warrant.

So for two hours
I sat there with him

and I quickly analyze
and figure out this guy was

a blowhard that had a big ego.
So I just started feeding it.

He’d tell me about how
successful at business he was

and how he took care
of the neighborhood.

He was the go to guy
in his neighborhood.

And I would ask him, you know,
about people he knew.

And he started telling me
that he knew this guy,

he knew that guy,
uh, politician,

so I would just act
like I was really impressed

and he was just going nuts
telling me all about that.

So it was no problem
keeping him there.

The thing of it is, is that,

on that same day, they held me
there for nine hours

and while holding me there
for nine hours,

they executed a search warrant.

The first search warrant
was executed on December 13th.

That is the search warrant
where they claimed

they went through the house
looking for Robert Piest.

It was written up to be looking
for Robert Piest

and Robert Piest wasn’t there.

Gacy lived in
an unincorporated area

of Cook County
called Norwood Park.

The location of his residence
was significant

because he lived
a stone’s throw away

from the Nisson Pharmacy
in Des Plaines,

where Rob Piest was working.

The first search warrant
was an attempt

to find Rob Piest alive
and we didn’t find that.

The first search did not give us
any direct information

in relation
to where Rob Piest was.

They didn’t find any bodies
in the Gacy house,

but they did find things
that really didn’t belong there,

such as a class ring
with the initials of somebody

that was not John Wayne Gacy.

And they found a variety
of pornography.

They found up in the attic
some shackles,

and they also found up in the
attic under some insulation,

two books, one of which
was titled The Gay Love Letters,

and the other book
was Pretty Boys Must Die.

These are very, very odd things
to have.

In the trash
can in the kitchen

they found a film receipt
that originated

from Nisson Pharmacy
where Rob Piest had worked.

It had no one’s name
on it at

all it had was a number on it.
So we really had no idea

what the film was about
or who it belonged to.

We assumed it probably
belonged to Gacy,

but they recovered
that just in case.

We found driver’s licenses
from two other individuals,

so that was what we found,

but nothing to lead us
to Robert Piest,

so we had to leave the house
and let Gacy back in.

My job at the time

was to start digging into
his past and his company’s past.

Gacy had been married in Iowa.

He had two children out there

at the time
that he went to prison

and as soon as he was paroled,
he headed back to Chicago.

By checking missing persons
reports from the area

and a specific age,

we started seeing
that several other people

that had worked for him
were missing.

These individuals were
young men that were

being reported missing

and have not been seen
for several months.

We find out that
the driver’s licenses

that were found
in his house

seemingly were related
to missing persons.

After the first search warrant,

when the police officers
brought back the class ring,

which had initials inside of it-
J.S.,

we were able to find out

this ring belonged to a fellow
by the name of John Szyc

and, and then checking
with his family,

finding out that,
in fact, Szyc is missing.

We would sit there in

the Des Plaines Police
Department

and just say, what in God’s name
are we sitting on top of?

We saw that Gacy
had a long record,

there were red flags
all along the way

that for some reason
nobody paid attention to.

You know, they say where
there’s smoke, there’s fire.

In this case, there was
a blaze out of control.

It was in so many
different districts

and some were more diligent
than others in pursuing it.

I think they did look
the other way many times.

But the fact that he got away
with it for so long.

Is he entirely to blame?

Or is there something faulty
with the system?

Our primary focus, our only
focus was watching Gacy.

You’re hoping you’re going to
find this kid alive someplace,

you know, whatever it may be
that, you know, return him home.

But it was quite apparent,
you know, just days into it

that Rob Piest might have been
the victim of a homicide.

We felt it very urgent

that we keep an eye on Gacy
no matter what,

let’s not lose him.

From the very get-go

We had a team
of undercover police officers,

four of them working
12 hour shifts

that were supposed
to be tailing him.

I start the surveillance

shortly after
the first search warrant.

Right away, we’re thinking,
hey, you know,

if he’s not being held
against his will Rob Piest,

you know,
the worst case scenario

is that he’s been killed

and there’s a possibility that
there’s more than one victim.

So I’m thinking to myself now,

what am I doing out here
by myself?

And I went back that day.

I said, listen, it’s probably
a good idea if we grab

one more guy for the night shift
to be my partner.

And that’s how my partner,
Mike Albrecht became involved.

We weren’t necessarily
given any instructions.

We’re just told watch Gacy.
I mean, you had a suspect

in a could be a homicide case,
so you got to watch him.

The police had focused
in on you

as being the suspect
in the missing boy.

and eventually, uh

well they were
following me around

Following you?

yeah, constantly.

And on December 13th,

I had made a statement
to the police department.

And from that date forward,
they were had me

under surveillance.
The only trouble is,

is that the Mickey Mouse way
they were doing it,

they had two cars
following me day and night

and they had trouble
keeping up with me.

So I used to go out
to the car in the morning

and tell them where I was going,
so in case they got lost.

because at the time I was doing
five construction jobs

in five parts of the city.

So in essence,
I was all over the place.

But this was like Keystone Cops
trying to follow me around.

Gacy did know
he was being surveilled

right from the get-go.

On the very first day
of my surveillance

when I was just being relieved,

Gacy came up to us and asked
if we were the police,

and we responded,

well, with Des Plaines,
you know,

and we’ve been told
to keep an eye on you,

and that’s what we’re doing.

So one of us would be parked
in front of Gacy’s house

and the other one
right on the corner

because if Gacy
wanted to go out the back

we’d be able to watch that.

That first night
was kind of uneventful,

and we spent most of the night
at Gacy’s house.

But then, you know, he started
going places at night.

And a third day
of the surveillance,

we released the surveillance
team about midnight

over at a place called
the Moose Lodge in Des Plaines,

and Gacy was in the Moose Lodge
at that time.

So Mike and I being
in unchartered waters

thought hey, you know

it’d be a lot easier
if we would just go inside.

He already knows
that we’re here.

So Mike and I both went
in the Moose Lodge

and we saw Gacy right away
and he saw us walk in.

We sat at a table, maybe
three tables away from Gacy.

And a short time later,

the waitress approaches us
with two beers and says,

these beers on the gentleman
over there pointing to Gacy.

About halfway through our beer

we sent Gacy a beer,
so we reciprocated.

And when it was time
for him to leave, he got up.

The place was just starting
to close up.

And he walks past us
and he says,

hey, would you guys like
to go to breakfast somewhere?

Right around the corner
was a place called

the Pot and Pan Restaurant.

And so we went in there
and Gacy went and he sat down

and we were kind of
sitting off the corner

a little bit away from him

and started talking back
and forth

he says why don’t you guys
come on and sit down with me?

So from that point on,

when he went into
a public place,

we would go in there with him.

And we get into all kinds
of conversations

about what we’re doing,
why we’re following him,

and he talks about his business
and how successful he is,

and he told us
why he hired young kids.

He says, you know, I got
to tell you from experience,

I know if I’ve hired a guy
that’s been around the block

a few times,
it’s hard for me to train him

because he’s used to doing it
a certain way.

I hire these young kids
that don’t have any experience.

I can train them right
from right from the start

how to do it
the way I want it done.

He was, you know,
a real braggart

and he would imply all his
contacts that he had

in the city of Chicago.

He had a lot of friends out
of Chicago Police Department.

He would just at times give you
kind of tidbits of what he had,

about all his contacts.

He never really said, oh, well,
they’ve done this for me.

It’s more like planting
a seed that if he needs help,

he knows where to go to get it.

Well, because of his
political connections,

John felt he had Teflon coating,
he could get away with anything.

That’s what I’ve learned
is like, oh my God,

there’s a whole tractor
trailer load of details

about Chicago politics
that I never even considered.

Everything in Chicago
was based on politics

back in the 70s.

The mayor was in charge

and he was at the top, top
rung on the ladder.

But as it filtered down,

you had all these workers,
precinct workers.

Gacy was one of those

foot soldiers
out in Norwood Park Township.

Gacy was a politician. He told
local Democratic officials

that he wanted to run
for office someday.

He was very friendly,

forthcoming hail
fellow well met type of guy.

John Wayne Gacy was also Pogo
the clown

who loved to make kids laugh.

He was married twice,
divorced twice,

and had two children.
A Democratic Party

precinct worker
with political connections.

His neighbors
knew him as Johnny.

He had big parties
every year at his house.

There were several groups

of people
that went to these parties,

from the neighbors
to young men and boys,

employees who thought
that maybe he was the key

to a job or money or whatever.

Gacy’s parties were also
for the political operatives

of the area
of Norwood Park Township.

Gacy would do anything
he could to ingratiate himself

with the power structure

because he wanted to rise within
the democratic institution

in the city of Chicago.

So he had his picture taken
with all these dignitaries.

Rosalynn Carter was
in Chicago last May

for a Polish observance.

There was a parade and one
of the parade coordinators

was John Wayne Gacy.

Gacy also attended
the private reception

where there’s a picture
of them meeting

the first lady was taken.
The emblem on Gacy’s jacket

indicates
he had Secret Service clearance

even though he was convicted
of a sex offense in 1968.

There’s that one photograph
of you Rosalynn Carter.

Um, yeah Mrs.Rosalynn Carter.

Well, the Secret Service
tries to cover it up

and said, well, we don’t know
how he got into the picture.

Hell, I was in charge
of the reception.

I had to stand at the door
and let them know

which politicians
were allowed in

and which ones weren’t,
the thing it is.

But the uh, the Secret Service
wanted to cover up

and make it sound like that

I had no business there.
I was cleared

and I was with Secret Service
at the time

and setting up the parade route
and everything,

because I used
to set up the parades

for the Polish alliance.

And then for three years
in a row

I had to set up the
parades to run.

And, you know,
that’s a big feat,

getting 20,000 Polish people

to go in one
direction at one time.

A lot of times
you’ll go to a story

and say oh I was
suspicious of him.

Not in this case.

Gacy used the aura of being
politically connected

to deceive people into thinking,
you know,

let’s leave this guy alone

because it may come back
to haunt us later on.

He manipulated public officials
to think he was just a guy

who was on the make politically

and he fooled everybody
every step of the way.

When we were following Gacy,

we had to kind of remind
each other once in a while

what we were involved in
and not get taken in by this guy

because he was a B.S.er and he,
very boastful

and try to get your confidence
and all that kind of stuff.

He was very likable

and Mike and I are like better
kind of, you know,

keep our guard up with this guy.

Even though you have a tendency
to put your guard down

because of the way he talked
and acted and befriended us.

He acted like such a normal guy.

He says, I don’t know
if you guys are following me

because of this missing person
that they were asking about.

But I have nothing to do
with this kid.

I’ve never seen him.

He says I’ll I’ll help you
on the search you know.

But I got to tell you,

I’m not involved
with this at all.

Now, he was showing
some odd behavior.

You know, personality changes,
if you would.

You know, he’d seem
real friendly

and then all of a sudden
he’d be aggravated

and then he would
he would have this

real unusual look
on his face, you know,

like almost like
a beaten man, you know,

and aggravated scary
looking face.

But, you know,
we’d get him out of the car

and shake him by the shoulders

and tell him hey
if you don’t knock it off,

you know, we’re going
to have to arrest you

for reckless driving
or something like that.

And then all of a sudden
he’d be fine

and he’d be like that
for a couple hours

and then he’d go nuts again.

Police have been watching
John Gacy’s suburban Chicago

home for the past 10 days.

They became suspicious
when 15 year old Robert Piest

disappeared after he allegedly
was last seen with Gacy.

We were just so engrossed
with this.

I mean, we thought
of nothing else.

Nothing in the entire I mean,

it was only
a 10 day surveillance,

but I mean, it’s all we
lived and breathed.

We didn’t have a thought
about anything else.

During this time,
the investigators

were interviewing
Michael Rossi and David Cram,

who were basically very loyal,
longtime employees,

young kids, you know,
in their 20s.

Mike Rossi and David Cram

they did odd jobs for him,
you know, and helping him

on a construction job
and stuff like that.

So they were his workers.
They worked for him.

And each time they’d
interview them

and they interviewed them
multiple times,

they would give just
a little more information.

Telling the investigators that
they had been in a crawlspace

and been ordered
to dig some trenches.

They said Gacy had them

dig trenches down
in the crawl space

and the reason
for these trenches

ostensibly given
to Rossi and Cram

were to make holes
to put in drain pipe

Captain Kozenczak
and the investigators,

now they’re starting
to find out

that there is an odor down
in the crawl space,

and Gacy has always put it off
to a sewage issue down there.

And when a smell would erupt
from the crawlspace,

Rossi and Cram, they were told

to throw lime down
to cover the smell.

The subdivision where
the Summerdale house is located

is built on a clay field.

And when it rained, the rain
would come down from both ends

and would flood from
from one house to the other.

The crawlspace would
fill up with water.

In 1976, I asked a landscaper,
I said, what do you do for

for that sour odor of clay?
And he said spread white lime,

just regular masonry
lime on the ground.

He said, it’ll sweeten
up the clay

and you won’t have that odor.

Sort of like what charcoal
does in filtering things.

That’s why the lime
was spread in the crawlspace.

How much the lime was spread
down there eventually?

Uh, I think seven
or eight hundred pounds of it.

We actually went into
the crawlspace the first time.

But if you’re looking
for a freshly dug grave,

you’re going to look
for a mound of dirt.

Well, there was no mounds
of dirt there,

so we did didn’t look
any further.

But now with Rossi and Cram
digging these trenches in there

we’re putting two and
two together

or as crazy as he’s starting
to act and his background,

you know,

that’s starting to come to the
thoughts of these investigators

that maybe he’s got
a dead body down there.

The first search warrant
was executed on December 13th.

However, what is strange
is you had 20 trained officers

that came into that house,

supposedly went down in the
crawl space, crawled around.

There was no mounds of dirt.
There was no odor.

There was no nothing.

I never feared anybody
going down that crawl space.

Now, the team is starting

to put a little bit
of pressure on Gacy

and he seems very agitated,
so we’re starting to get to him

and we can tell.

When we first
started the surveillance,

Gacy seemed to be able
to operate like on three

or four hours sleep.
But as the investigation went on

and he was becoming more
and more worried,

he was getting
virtually no sleep.

And it was very visible,

you know, his body language
and his posture, everything,

he looked horrible.

He was just transformed
from this effervescent guy

to a beaten man.

The police wanted to get
a second search warrant.

The main obstacle was there
was already a search warrant

that had been executed.

So we needed
fresh probable cause.

The probable cause
for the second warrant

was an amalgamation of about two
or three pieces of evidence.

One was a class ring that Gacy
probably should not have had.

Another item of evidence
found in the Gacy house

was a photo slip, the kind

when people used
to take pictures with film,

not in Rob Piest’s name,

but in the name of a young lady
named Kim Byers

who worked at the drug store.

Kim Byers worked at the cash
register at the Nisson pharmacy,

and she was at the front
of the store

right by the front door.

Kim Byers was going to step
outside and have a break,

and she borrowed
Rob Piest’s coat.

And just before she went
outside,

she took her film and was
having the film processed,

got a receipt, put the receipt
in the pocket of Piest’s coat.

That’s the same receipt
that we found in Gacy’s trash.

So that tied Piest
to Gacy’s house.

The third thing, as I recall,

was a conversation I had
with the police officers

and they were doing
surveillance of Gacy.

It was very,
very cold that winter.

And that’s an important fact
because they would

sit right outside of his house
in the unmarked police car.

Gacy, who was full of hubris
and arrogance,

would sometimes invite them
in to use the restroom

and warm up
the second surveillance team,

which was Bob Schultz
and Ron Robinson.

They pretty much did
the same things that we did.

You know, they followed him,

they had conversations
with Gacy.

They stayed with
him wherever.

This particular day

Gacy says to Schultz
and Robinson

he says hey you guys want
to have dinner at my place?

And they looked
at each other and said

sure.

So they follow Gacy
over to his house,

go in there, Gacy is starting to
prepare dinner for them.

And while they’re
in there Schultz says hey,

I got to go to the bathroom.

So Bob went into the bathroom
and what happened then,

while he was in there,
the heat kicked on.

And when the heat kicks on,
Shultz smells this horrific
smell

that he said he could only
equate to the county morgue.

He thought that the odor
reminded him

of what he had smelled
in his experience

as a patrolman,
the odor of decaying flesh.

When I heard that, I said,
I think we have probable cause.

After I prepared
the search warrant

with the police officers
from Des Plaines,

it was already getting into the
late afternoon, early evening.

So I went home, I had
dinner with my grandmother,

went back to my place,
fell asleep and all was fine

until about 5:00 in the morning
when I received a telephone call

from Assistant State’s Attorney
Mike Corkell,

who told me,
get your ass out of bed

and over to the police station.

We found bones.

I made several trips

to the house
during the excavation.

The stench in there
was overwhelming.

The police officers
would wear kerchiefs

around their nose and mouth.

And I remember seeing
what they put in body bags.

I had seen crime victims
before, dead people,

but nothing like this.

In hindsight, everything
is very, very clear,

but as you’re going through it,

you’re trying to figure out
how could he take victim

after victim from the
same streets and not get caught?

And the only answer
you come to

is that someone
was looking the other way.

This man could have been
stopped.