All language subtitles for Very.Scary.People.S03E04.The.Butcher.Baker.The.Girls.Who.Got.Away.Part.2.1080p.AMZN.WEB-DL.DDP2.0.H.264-BurCyg_track3_[eng]

Hansen:
I showed her firearms,

told her what was gonna happen,
told her, you know,

that she would not be hurt
in any way, shape, or form

if she would just go along
with me.

If things went exactly
as I wanted them to,

by that evening, she'd be back.

Then, all of a sudden,
she just turned around

and trying to scratch me
in the eyes

and fight with me and so forth,

and, uh,
it just went from bad to worse.

♪♪

Welcome to "Very Scary People."

I'm Donnie Wahlberg.

In the early 1980s,

a steady stream of young dancers
and sex workers

were vanishing off the streets
of Anchorage, Alaska.

Soon bodies started turning up
in the wilderness,

buried in shallow graves.

When investigators found
matching bullet casings

in two of the sites,

they suspected that
a serial killer was at work.

But who?

Investigators believe
they may have a suspect.

A teenage prostitute told police
a man assaulted her

and tried to fly her
to his cabin in the woods.

Could it be the same man
investigators were looking for?

This is part two of
"The Butcher Baker."

♪♪

Daily: There was a big rumor
on the streets

about something going on.

There have been reports
of dancers and prostitutes

suddenly turning up missing.

♪♪

Then they found a body
around the Knik River.

Daily: One of the first things
that became visible after

was the victim's head.

Hale: And she has an ACE bandage
wrapped around her head.

There was a .223 shell casing

that they ended up
finding there.

Hale: The .223 caliber

come with a number
of semi-automatic weapons.

They're designed to kill.

Beeman:
One of the first inklings was,

"It's probably someone who knows
his way around hunting."

Kasnick:
I've thought a number of times

about what those women
must have gone through,

the horror.

♪♪

They all knew
they were gonna die.

No question about it.

Rice: One of these girls

got out of the car
on the way to the airport.

She'd been able to escape.

Hale:
Cindy Paulson got away.

She was absolutely able
to identify Robert Hansen.

Evans: Robert Hansen had
a bakery downtown.

Just about everybody
frequented that bakery.

Bivins: He always usually worked
the graveyard shift.

Like all bakers,
they bake all night

so they can have
fresh goods in the morning.

Beeman: That's why it wasn't
unusual for him to be out

at all hours of night --

and the other thing,
with the hunting...

Hale:
He's a world-class hunter.

Beeman: ...he would be gone
for days at a time.

But it was a woman
of the streets

versus a respectable guy.

Two folks gave some
pretty strong alibis.

Our assumption was the matter
was over and done with.

Jordan: And then the body
of Paula Goulding

was found near the Knik River.

Duclos: Both Sherry Morrow's
and Paula Goulding's graves

contained one single
shell casing from a .223 rifle,

and that linked the two cases
immediately.

Hale: And they're starting
to think now

that they have
a serial killer on their hand.

♪♪

Jordan: Alaska state trooper
Glenn Flothe has been trying

to dig up everything
that exists on Robert Hansen.

Glenn Flothe is pretty sure
he has a potential suspect.

♪♪

Evans:
When they started digging,

they found out
that Robert Hansen

actually had quite a history.

♪♪

Jordan:
In November of 1971,

a real-estate secretary
named Susie Heppeard

exchanged glances
with a man at a traffic light.

And it was kind of
a reflex smile

'cause he was looking at her,
apparently.

And the light changed,
and then they drove on.

This young woman,
this real-estate secretary,

was all of 18 years old.

Duclos:
Heppeard got back home,

and, uh, she decided
to take a shower.

Hale: And he decided
to come up to the house

and knocked on her door.

[ Knock on door ]

And he had an excuse that nobody
would use now, but it was,

"Hey, I need to use
a phone book.

Do you have a phone book?
I need to make a phone call."

Duclos:
And she agrees...

amazingly.

Hale: And he goes in,

and he says,
"Can we have a date?"

And Susan Heppeard says,
"No, I've got a boyfriend."

And so Hansen departs.

♪♪

Heppeard gets up
at a very early hour, 5:00,

and dresses
and goes out to her car.

He's there waiting for her
with a gun.

♪♪

She was petrified.
She started to scream.

Duclos: And one of her roommates
comes to the window

and sees her down there
with this guy holding a gun

and calls the police.

Hale: He runs --
ditches his gun,

ditches his hat.

Duclos: The police show up
relatively quickly.

Rice: They had a K-9 unit.

The K-9 unit tracked him,
found some clothing, I believe,

and a .357 revolver.

They see this guy walking,
and he doesn't have a coat,

and he looks kind of
out of place and they stop him,

and...it's Bob Hansen.

Duclos:
His excuse of why he was on foot

was that he had been driving
and started to feel woozy

and had stopped his car
and got out.

And when he was told about
what he was considered

a suspect for,
his response was,

"Well, if I did that,
I don't remember it

'cause I blacked out."

Hale: There's really something
insidious about this guy,

that he looks so harmless.

His answers
don't make any sense.

Rice: I thought at least we had
the beginnings of a kidnap

'cause he's moved her
with a gun,

and anytime you do that,
that's kidnapping.

I couldn't convince
the D.A. of that,

and what they finally
wound up doing

is charging him with assault
with a dangerous weapon,

which is a felony.

♪♪

We knew we were not gonna see
the last of him.

So I took my own camera down
and started a --

what we called
a sex-offender book.

And he's the first picture
in it.

We all knew that we were
gonna see him again

and it was gonna get
worse the next time.

♪♪

♪♪

Beeman: Prostitutes and dancers
were being murdered.

They were finding bodies.

They knew there was
something happening.

Jordan: Cindy Paulson
was the 17-year-old sex worker

who had I.D.'d Robert Hansen
as the man

who had kidnapped,
tortured, and raped her.

Evans:
When they started looking back,

they realized that Robert Hansen
had quite a track record.

♪♪

♪♪

Hale: Bobby is out on
his own recognizance,

so there's no bail required.

It's just, "You promise to come
back for your court date."

♪♪

It's very late at night,

3:00 in the morning.

Duclos:
A young woman, Patty Roberts,

had done some dancing
at some nightclub in Anchorage.

She stopped at a café

to get a cup of hot tea.

♪♪

Her stopping at that café
was just a random thing.

She ordered her tea.

And then she recalled that
she'd left her car running,

so she went back out
to shut off the engine.

Hale:
Here comes this man with a gun,

forces her into his car,

and he's kidnapping her.

♪♪

They drive down the road,
and then he stops

and binds her with shoelaces.

He said, "I'm taking you down
to the Kenai.

We're going to be together
for a few days.

If you try to do anything,

I'll kill you and anybody
who sees you."

Kenai is about three hours
South of Anchorage.

Hale:
You are in the bush.

There are only pockets
of people living that far south.

♪♪

He undresses her
at various points

because he doesn't want
her to get away.

Duclos: Hansen drove them down
and stopped at the Sunrise Motel

and of course told her

she better not do anything
stupid or he'd kill her.

He did rape her.

Hale: He's really kind of
looking for rough sex.

Patty is trying her best
to do whatever he wants

'cause she feels
it's her life if she doesn't.

♪♪

Duclos:
He told her that she was good,

that he liked her,

and so he was gonna then
take her to some cabin.

♪♪

Hale:
Now she's really scared.

But she just keeps talking.

"I'm not gonna tell on you.

Don't worry.
Don't worry."

Pat told him that she was
a single mother,

that she had a baby.

Hale:
And he learns that her child

is staying with her parents.

It certainly -- It was
a double-edged sword for her

because he's going to use
this as power over her

because when he goes
through her purse,

he finds a slip of paper

that has her son's name

and her father's name
and address.

He told her, "I know where
your parents are,

so if you ever mention this
or I get called up on this,

I'll harm your parents
and your child."

That sort of gave him
enough confidence --

"Okay, I can let her go" --
because he has the address

and their names.

For him, it's the threat,
"I'll come after you."

Duclos: Hansen took her back
to the café

where her car was parked
and let her go.

Rice: She never told him that
her dad was a state trooper.

At no time did she ever
tell him that.

♪♪

Duclos:
Patty was reluctant.

She didn't come forward
immediately,

but she eventually came forward
and filed a complaint.

I got a call from
a state trooper investigator

who said he had
a victim with him

and that they wanted
to look at the book.

They knew we had started
this book,

what we called
a sex-offender book.

Hansen was number one
in our sex-offender book

for assault
with a deadly weapon.

The case with Susan Heppeard.

Rice: She immediately identified
Robert Hansen

as the person who did it.

So, we got an arrest warrant,

went to his residence,
arrested him.

His wife was there.

She didn't say much --
the wife didn't.

It had to be terribly difficult
for her.

Hale:
And, of course, Hansen,

when he was confronted by police

with the story
about Patty Roberts,

mentions "She's a prostitute,

and we had a fight
over the money.

That's all that happened."

♪♪

Rice:
What I would have hoped

that the D.A.'s office
would have done

is taken those two,

combine those two together,
then let him plead to 20 years.

And he probably
would have done it.

But, unfortunately,
that wasn't the case.

Hale:
They have a strong case

against Robert Hansen
in both cases,

but the problem is that one
of the victims was a dancer.

Rice: For some reason or other,
D.A.s are scared to death

to take a case like that
before a jury,

thinking the jury
will prejudge her.

Hale: So, they essentially said,
"We're gonna drop the case

against Patty Roberts,

go hard on the case
with this Susan Heppeard."

They made a deal.

Hansen didn't have to go
to trial.

He learned a lesson there,
albeit indirectly --

"Oh. So, I'm not getting
in trouble for the dancer,

but I'm getting in trouble
for the real-estate secretary.

Okay. I got it."

Jordan:
But Hansen told officers

he couldn't remember
attacking Susie Heppeard,

so a psych eval is ordered.

Hale:
They say he's schizophrenic.

He has dissociative personality
with schizophrenia.

And they're like,
"He needs counseling
more than he needs prison."

♪♪

♪♪

Rice:
I still can't believe it.

I mean, with his history,
why he did three months --

I don't have a clue.

"He's reformable, you know?
He's got skills.

He's got a family.
He's got kids."

He was right there, and of
course he couldn't help it.

He was just in the shadows.

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

Jordan:
In 1983, Glenn Flothe,

who's been investigating this
case of the missing dancers,

approached the FBI and asked
the Behavioral Science Unit

to develop a profile
of the subject

responsible for these crimes.

Profiles were one of the most
important tools in the toolbox

for solving murder cases.

What do you look for when you're
investigating a serial killer?

Jordan: The FBI would help
work up a profile.

They pointed to so many things
that fit Robert Hansen,

who he was.

He's an avid hunter.

He had a speech impediment.

A man who had a wife who would
be extremely religious,

and he would probably be
a very successful businessman.

Someone living a double life,
compartmentalized to the max.

♪♪

In 1976,

Robert Hansen attempts
to steal a chain saw

from a Fred Meyer
department store.

His explanation
of that was so circuitous,

I never quite followed that.

Hale:
He wanted to steal a chain saw

to give to his dad
for his birthday.

I mean, here's a guy
that's got plenty of money.

Beeman: Then when he stole
this chain saw,

they looked at that,
and that was his third felony.

And there was a lot of, "Should
we throw the book at him?"

Hale: His wife, Darla,
had this whole coterie of people

to come forward -- "He's
a good guy, deserves a break."

Beeman: I think that she thought
that she could help him,

and each time
that he would get arrested,

he would go back to church
for a while

and try to, you know,
walk that kind of path with her.

Duclos:
He was sentenced to five years,

and then his lawyer appealed
to the Alaska Supreme Court.

Jordan: They argue
that as long as Robert Hansen

can get treatment
for his mental illness,

he can be a productive
member of society.

♪♪

Duclos: Things had fallen
through the cracks.

Hansen's release in 1978

ended up
being totally unsupervised.

He still had the obsessions.

When he was out on parole,

he'd still glide down
to Fourth Avenue

just like he always did
to see the girls.

♪♪

Evans: The fantasy
that he built up about this,

being out in the wilderness

and having that opportunity

to do with these women
what he wanted to do,

had something to do
with his wilderness experience.

It's a harrowing drive.

It's rutted roads.

He ended up getting stuck
out there.

What kicks in there is this sort
of flight-or-fight reaction.

She fought.

♪♪

He can't believe he did that.

♪♪

Her body is not discovered
until the following year.

Beeman:
They found her body in 1980,

and they have not
identified her since.

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

Welcome back to
"Very Scary People."

Investigators looking into
the disappearance and murder

of several dancers
and prostitutes

suddenly discovered
Robert Hansen

had a disturbing
criminal history

dating back to the 1970s.

Could the quiet baker be the man

terrorizing the streets
of Anchorage?

♪♪

Duclos:
Probably the most important case

that existed in Alaska
at the time

was the missing dancers case.

Rice: The state troopers --
they had a group

that was just looking at
what's happening to these girls.

Jordan: The bodies of
Sherry Morrow and Paula Goulding

had both been found
in the same general area

along the Knik River,

and in both their graves
were matching shell casings.

Hale: So, they're sending off
the shells

to the FBI lab at Quantico

and they come back
and they say, "Same gun" --

not just that they're
the same kind of shell,

but they have the same
kind of markings,

so they're definitely tied

to one particular weapon.

Specifically, the Mini-14.

They really want that Mini-14.

Kasnick: What really started
the focus on Hansen

was the escape
of Cindy Paulson.

I think that's when
the realization

that there was a connection
with the bodies

that we were recovering
from the Knik area

may have been related
to Bob Hansen.

Jordan: The police have
circumstantial evidence

connecting Bob Hansen
to these crimes,

but they don't have proof.

And remember --
DNA was in its infancy.

They had no DNA connection.

They had some bullet casings,

but they didn't have the gun
that they came from.

It was going to take something
very specific --

a hair, a fiber, or a piece
of jewelry, a memento --

something
that could link these women

directly to Robert Hansen.

♪♪

Hale: What they know about
serial killers is they tend

to keep mementos
from their kills and hide them

and bring them out
in select periods of time

and relive the kill.

One of the things
they're looking for

is something

that Sherry Morrow's boyfriend
talked about,

which is the arrowhead necklace.

♪♪

It's like a mini invasion.

They have to hit the plane.
They have to hit his house.

They have to hit the bakery.

So it's a very
coordinated operation.

Really, it felt like it was
a race against time.

They brought Hansen in.

This was an emerging
FBI technique

where you confront a witness

with some of the evidence
you have

that may scare them
into a confession.

So they had case files
all over the desk,

they had photos of the victims,

and they had a big map
of the Knik

with a circle drawn,

saying, "Bob Hansen
was spotted here."

And so it wasn't subtle.

♪♪

They ask Hansen,
"We found some of your brass

out there on the Knik.

What was it doing there?"

"Oh, I just go up there
and practice shooting wolves."

"Oh, you do?"
"Yeah. In my plane.

I just fly over and shoot
at wolves in my plane."

He's got an excuse for it all.

He's not biting.

And all they're really looking
for is something to hold him,

keep him in jail, continue
to develop their evidence.

While they're doing that,

they're in touch
with the people in the house.

"Are you finding anything?"

And they keep saying,
"No, we haven't found the .223.

No, we haven't found
any mementos."

And Flothe's freaking because
he's not breaking, either.

And they have
a long interrogation.

It takes several hours.

And then at some point,
you know, he asked for a lawyer.

And so that's over.

Evans:
The search took hours.

I mean, they are going through
boxes in storage rooms

out in the garage.

Hale:
They're at the house so long

that Glenn Flothe
finishes with Hansen

and comes to the house
to help look.

So, they're going through
the basement.

That's where all
the trophies are.

They find guns.

They don't find the one
they're looking for.

They were not finding
what they had hoped to find.

Hale:
The strongest case they had

was kidnapping, rape,

assault
with a dangerous weapon --

Cindy Paulson.

And then when they're doing
the investigation,

the wife
of one of the alibi witnesses

showed up at the Hansen house,

and she sees everything
that's going on

and she gets ahold
of her husband and say,

"That story
that you told the cops

about your good buddy Hansen --

you better tell them the truth."

And he rolls over.

And once he rolls over,
they both roll over.

The whole story
kind of falls apart.

♪♪

But they still need to make
the murder case.

They need something that
that's gonna tie him.

♪♪

Jordan: Behind
Robert Hansen's headboard,

the police discovered
an incredible piece of evidence.

It's kind of like
a light clicked

and they went, "Oh, my gosh."

♪♪

♪♪

[ Gulls crying ]

♪♪

They met in the harbor area
where he had his boat.

Things kind of started off
being a little flirtatious.

He always kind of craved
having a normal relationship.

Hale: She was originally
from New York State.

She trained as a nurse.

And he thinks, "Maybe I'll have
a real kind of date with her."

She asked him for money,
and, in his brain,

she's now a prostitute.

And they ended up, he says,
struggling and fighting.

[ Two gunshots ]

He stuffed her in a sleeping bag
and just left her.

She had a dog.
He shot the dog.

[ Gunshot ]

♪♪

Kasnick: The house
had been being searched

by several investigators

throughout the course
of the entire day.

Hale: And then there's only
one place left to look,

and that's in the attic.

And they send a guy
named Kasnick up there.

The search actually required
you to be down on all fours.

He's going batt by batt,
pulling it up,

gets to the very rear
of the house.

Kasnick: And it was
about a third of the way up

from the end of the structure
under the insulation

that I found the stash of guns

and the Mini-14.

Evans: And then as
the one officer is getting ready

to come down out of the attic,

he pulls up a couple of batts,

and that's where
they find the bags.

I found the plastic bag
with the jewelry in it,

and that was pretty chilling.

I was absolutely convinced

that it was, in fact,
a collection of jewelry

and items from the women
that he had murdered.

There were rings.
There were watches.

There was driver's licenses.

They find the arrowhead necklace

that belongs to Sherry Morrow.

♪♪

So, they're searching the house.
They find a map.

It's an aviation map.
It's got some marks on it.

It's behind the headboard
of his bed.

And they don't initially think
much of it.

They think it's maybe
hunting spots.

But they show it to the guy
who investigated

the murder of Joanna Messina,

and they say, "Hey, where
did you find her body?"

And he said, "Right here,
but you've already marked it.

You've already got it marked."

And Flothe says,
"We didn't mark it.

Bob Hansen marked it."

And then they knew.

That was -- That was really the,
"Oh, my."

So, immediately,
they assumed all those other X's

represent
relatively the same thing.

There was 24 X's.

Hale: These are where bodies
are buried.

♪♪

♪♪

It was very difficult to have
an airtight case against Hansen,

and at the end of the day,

Hansen had not confessed
to any of the homicides.

And so it was still
a circumstantial case

and very complicated,
a lot of legalities.

They put Hansen in jail,
and he stews,

and they keep dropping hints

that they're finding
more information.

In February, they get a call
from his attorneys,

and the exact quote is,
"He wants to clear the decks."

It was clear to us that what
he wanted to do was confess.

We weren't quite sure the extent
of the confession,

but it was clear
that what he wanted to do

was go over and...

confess his sins.

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

Evans: I think the driver in all
of this was the publicity,

that he was very, very concerned
about the long-term effects

that it would have on
Darla and the children.

They start the interview
off very low-key, very slow.

Hale:
He knows they've got four,

and the four are the ones
they've already found --

so, Sherry Morrow,
Paula Goulding,

Eklutna Annie,
and Joanna Messina.

That's it. That's all.

There's no more.

Evans: When they got down to
specific details about murders,

he would try and shift
the responsibility,

the blame, to the women.

"She attacked me.
She tried to run.

She tried to escape.

She started screaming.

If they'd only done
what I'd asked them,

I would have
brought them back."

♪♪

The minute that a girl
stood up for herself,

that hit a very
vulnerable Achilles' heel

that Bob Hansen had never
gotten over from his teen years.

He just wanted an excuse
to kill these women

almost as a symbolic revenge

on every woman
that had ever rejected him.

Hale: So, he does confess
to some of the killings,

but he makes a mistake,

and he reveals one
that's not one of those four.

He doesn't know their names,

and he doesn't really know
their pictures.

He just knows locations.

And so now he's up to five.

But by this point,
the troopers have a map,

an aviation map that they found.

There's at least 24 marks
on this map.

Beeman: They do believe there's
more people who he killed

because of how many
X's there were.

It was certainly clear to me
that it was not five.

It was an eye-opener,
to say the least.

From the beginning,
he had not been open with us.

It was like a scorecard for him.

Evans: I think he insisted

that only 17 of them
had a body there.

For some of those,
he specifically said,

"There's nothing there."

♪♪

Hale: So, they fly up
to the Knik River.

Bob Hansen's wearing nothing but
a sweatshirt and some snowshoes.

And he just leaps out
like a rabbit, and he says,

"There's one there"
and then "There's one there."

He went with investigators
around the area

and pointed out
various gravesites.

Hale: In a very real way,
he's reliving his crimes.

This is better than mementos.

He's at the scene.

Duclos:
Then he went down on his knees

and started frantically digging
through the snow with his hands.

Jordan:
And the recovery of the body

is really irrelevant to him.

It's the idea that he can taste
it, feel it, smell it.

The fantasy is gonna flood
over him all over again.

He was able to recall
within a few feet

where he had left bodies.

That in itself
is pretty remarkable,

pretty chilling.

♪♪

♪♪

I was up on the banks
of the Knik River

with a number of other people

and had been to a number
of the gravesites

and recovered remains.

That's one of those things
that will stay with me forever.

It's hard to think about
what those women went through.

It really is.

Jordan:
The final autopsy reports

on the victims of Robert Hansen

indicated that, towards the end,

he was literally spraying them
with bullets in the back.

Hale:
He wasn't content to shoot them,

but he had to stab them,
as well.

He's destroying them.

He's trying to utterly
destroy them.

Jordan: So, he did become
the big-game hunter,

and the women became his prey.

♪♪

Hale: The judge hands down

the longest sentence he can

under the sentencing guidelines,

which is 461 years.

The judge is unsparing.

He condemns the courts
and the police.

Everybody along the line failed.

He called this case
an indictment of society.

Hale: If they'd have
stopped him in 1971,

there would've been
a lot of women alive right now.

We let those gals down.
I mean, we did.

Beeman:
Law enforcement chose to...

follow their biases that...

just because a woman

is living as a prostitute

or a topless dancer,

she's not to be trusted.

♪♪

I think Robert Hansen
was very adept

at fooling everybody.

He was really good
at hiding his evil side.

Hale:
I always think of Darla.

"Darla, did you know
he was doing these things?"

And, you know, her response was,
"Who could imagine anybody

was doing these things,
much less your husband?"

Daily: And he basically looked
like Joe Citizen.

He gave off an impression
of being mild-mannered,

but he was able to take that
in a flick of a switch

and turn into the monster.

♪♪

Investigators are still trying
to identify Eklutna Annie

using modern forensics

and genetic genealogy.

They're hopeful that one day

they will be able to give Annie

a proper name.

In 2014,

Robert Hansen died in prison

of natural causes.

He was 75 years old.

I'm Donnie Wahlberg.

Thanks for watching.

Good night.