All language subtitles for I Fought the Law S01E04

af Afrikaans
ak Akan
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bem Bemba
bn Bengali
bh Bihari
bs Bosnian
br Breton
bg Bulgarian
km Cambodian
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
chr Cherokee
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional)
co Corsican
hr Croatian
cs Czech
da Danish
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
ee Ewe
fo Faroese
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French
fy Frisian
gaa Ga
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German
el Greek
gn Guarani
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ia Interlingua
ga Irish
it Italian
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
rw Kinyarwanda
rn Kirundi
kg Kongo
ko Korean
kri Krio (Sierra Leone)
ku Kurdish
ckb Kurdish (Soranรฎ)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Laothian
la Latin
lv Latvian
ln Lingala
lt Lithuanian
loz Lozi
lg Luganda
ach Luo
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mfe Mauritian Creole
mo Moldavian
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
sr-ME Montenegrin
ne Nepali
pcm Nigerian Pidgin
nso Northern Sotho
no Norwegian
nn Norwegian (Nynorsk)
oc Occitan
or Oriya
om Oromo
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt-BR Portuguese (Brazil)
pt Portuguese (Portugal)
pa Punjabi
qu Quechua
ro Romanian
rm Romansh
nyn Runyakitara
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
sh Serbo-Croatian
st Sesotho
tn Setswana
crs Seychellois Creole
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhalese
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish
es-419 Spanish (Latin American) Download
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
tt Tatar
te Telugu
th Thai
ti Tigrinya
to Tonga
lua Tshiluba
tum Tumbuka
tr Turkish
tk Turkmen
tw Twi
ug Uighur
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
wo Wolof
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,079 Gary, it's started! 2 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,239 Wait. Wait! 3 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,839 Hey, you're in our way. 4 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:16,479 Well, erm... 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,319 KIDS CHATTER 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,079 KNOCK AT DOOR 7 00:00:21,080 --> 00:00:22,800 BELL RINGING 8 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:25,720 Oh, I'll get it, shall I? 9 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:29,399 Move! You move. 10 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:30,719 Behave. 11 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:32,199 KIDS CHATTER 12 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:33,639 Oh, hi. Good afternoon. 13 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:35,399 My name's Marion. I live across the street. 14 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:37,479 Oh! Nice to meet you. I'm Ann. 15 00:00:37,480 --> 00:00:40,919 The thing is, Billingham's a nice area. 16 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:42,999 I'm sure you're perfectly civil yourself, but... 17 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:44,920 Ah. Here it is. 18 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,240 As you can see, quite a few of the neighbours have already signed it. 19 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,799 You're trying to get rid of us? It's not you. 20 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:00,879 It's your husband. 21 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:05,079 All these foreigners pouring off the boats like rats. 22 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,360 Surely, you could've done better for yourself. 23 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,640 I think you'd be happier elsewhere, don't you? 24 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,840 KIDS CHATTER 25 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,479 TV: 'Oh, can you believe this?' 'That's called character, Alf.' 26 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:31,079 'Character?! It's a chuffin' health hazard, that's what that is.' 27 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:32,959 CLATTERING 28 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:36,680 DOG BARKING 29 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:55,719 No. 30 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,519 No, I'm not having this. Honestly... 31 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,239 No. Love, it's not worth it. 32 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,799 Hey! You can shove your petition up your arse! 33 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,000 And if you ever try anything like that again, you'll be sorry! 34 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,400 WOMAN: Keep it down, will you?! 35 00:02:09,640 --> 00:02:11,399 MAN: Pack it in, will you?! 36 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,280 HE CHUCKLES Hey. 37 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,839 Sorry. No. 38 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,479 I think I like this side of you. 39 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,720 Really? Well, you'd better get used to it. 40 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:28,920 MUSIC: 'Pictures Of You' by The Cure 41 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:43,519 # I've been looking so long At these pictures of you 42 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:48,519 # That I almost believe That they're real 43 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:54,399 # I've been living so long With my pictures of you 44 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,639 # That I almost believe 45 00:02:57,640 --> 00:03:01,760 # That the pictures Are all I can feel. # 46 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,279 You've no need to be nervous. He's a very nice fella. 47 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,359 He could be the spawn of Satan for all I care. 48 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,599 As long as he listens to what I have to say. 49 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,040 You don't have to say anything. That's why I'm here. 50 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,160 WOMAN: Hello. Follow me, please. Thanks. 51 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:46,520 It's just round here. 52 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:49,959 Let me do the talking. KNOCK AT DOOR 53 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,119 DOOR OPENS 54 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,879 Back to my constituency on Friday. All right. 55 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,759 Mrs Ming. Mr Ming. Come on in. 56 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:58,279 Thanks, Isabelle. 57 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,119 Frank. Jack. 58 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,119 Thanks for seeing us today. I know how busy you are. 59 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,439 Not at all. Always a pleasure. 60 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,919 So, as I mentioned on the phone, I... 61 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,279 This is our daughter, Mr Straw. 62 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,639 And this? This is the man who murdered her. 63 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,640 That's not an opinion. He confessed to it in a court of law. 64 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,959 Yes, I've been following the case closely, Mrs Ming. 65 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:22,839 Well, I am not happy with the perjury sentence, 66 00:04:22,840 --> 00:04:24,919 and I wanna know what you're gonna do about it. 67 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,959 Well, there's not a great deal I can do about it, I'm afraid. 68 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:29,239 Then something needs to be done 69 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,439 about changing the double jeopardy law, doesn't it? 70 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,799 Double jeopardy is a very grey area, Mrs Ming. 71 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,040 I'm not bothered what colour it is, I wanna know what you're gonna do. 72 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:48,599 Don't bother with that. 73 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:50,399 There's no case like ours in that book, 74 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:51,839 or any other, for that matter. 75 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:53,079 Am I right? 76 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,800 Well, as a matter of fact, you are. 77 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,839 Here's where things currently stand - 78 00:04:59,840 --> 00:05:02,479 the Home Affairs Select Committee are recommending 79 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,439 that the double jeopardy law be changed, 80 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,479 and I've asked the Law Commission to undertake their own review, 81 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,479 but this may take years, I'm afraid. 82 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,159 Well, we... we haven't got years. 83 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:16,839 He'll be out before too long. 84 00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:20,599 And once he's out, it'll be a bloody sight harder to get him put back in. 85 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,119 It's a general principle of law-making in this country 86 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,599 that any change should only apply to the future, not the past. 87 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,679 So even if their recommendations are enacted, 88 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,319 the chances of it being applied retrospectively 89 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,159 to historic cases such as yours... 90 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,280 pretty slender, I'm afraid. 91 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,000 I'm sorry, I'm just being honest with you. 92 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,279 OK, well, tell me this. 93 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:49,680 What would you do if you were in our situation? 94 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,719 If you're to have any chance of success, 95 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,119 you'll have to get the Law Commission on your side. 96 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,079 All right, well, give me the name of the person 97 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,480 I need speak to there, then, please. 98 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:07,119 You've got grit, I'll give you that. 99 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,599 We've been wronged, Jack. How can I stay silent? 100 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,319 My advice? Don't. 101 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,960 In fact, the louder you are, the better. 102 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:21,159 Bloody hell. 103 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,640 You just had the Home Secretary eating out of your hand. 104 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:26,919 Well, I don't know what all the fuss is about. 105 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,079 He's just a man in a slightly better suit than yours. 106 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,840 THEY LAUGH CHARLIE: Good one, love. 107 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,399 Have I missed anything? 108 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,919 You must be joking. 109 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,919 I've seen encyclopaedias with less detail than this. 110 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,360 Let's just hope they get back to us quickly. 111 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:48,919 I'm gonna go to bed. 112 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,039 What are you doing? 113 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,919 Oh, just some paperwork, love. Sleep tight. 114 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:55,720 Night, Kev. Night. 115 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,919 What is it? Is it Kev? 116 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,159 I don't think he saw anything. 117 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:08,760 No, erm... 118 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,760 I'm thinking of retiring from the NHS. 119 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:16,200 What? 120 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:18,480 Just feels like it's time. 121 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,119 But you love your job. 122 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,519 I know. 123 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,880 But this is gonna need all of my focus and energy now. 124 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,959 What? 125 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,480 You heard what Jack Straw said. 126 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,079 It could take years. 127 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,799 I don't care how long it takes. 128 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:40,600 What if it's five years? 129 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,679 Ten years, even? 130 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,919 And what if after all those years of fighting, 131 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,399 you still don't get the result you want? 132 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,360 We can't think like that. 133 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,999 Look, I know how you feel about all of this, and that's fine. 134 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,880 I don't need your help, but I do need your support. 135 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,960 DOOR CLOSES Oh, hi, love. How was your week? 136 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:33,840 DOOR SLAMS 137 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:37,520 MUSIC PLAYS THROUGH HEADPHONES 138 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,679 KNOCK AT DOOR 139 00:08:43,680 --> 00:08:45,000 Come in. 140 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:50,360 Mind if I sit? 141 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:58,960 Is everything OK, love? 142 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:02,960 You'd tell me if it wasn't, wouldn't you? 143 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,800 Kev, look, whatever it is, you can be honest with me. 144 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:25,959 SOFTLY: Oh, my God. 145 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,960 Oh, where did you find these? The library. 146 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:33,839 Some kids at school were saying things. 147 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,200 Oh. Oh, Kev. 148 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,679 I didn't read any more after that one. 149 00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:45,520 No, of course you couldn't. 150 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,160 Look, please let me explain... Why would you lie to me? 151 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,799 I don't know. Why? 152 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,159 I don't know, love. I... I didn't mean to hurt you. 153 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,719 We wanted to protect you, that's all. 154 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,439 Not just your grandad and me, but your dad as well. 155 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:03,760 You were so young. 156 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,519 But I am sorry. I'm sorry. 157 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,040 It's not fair. 158 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,959 Look, you can ask me anything you like about her, 159 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:17,679 anything at all, OK? 160 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:19,319 And I will... 161 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,720 I'll tell you the truth now, I promise. I promise. 162 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,160 She was murdered, wasn't she? 163 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:30,840 Yes. 164 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:33,240 By who? 165 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:37,039 A man she knew. 166 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:38,680 Is he in prison? 167 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,199 Yeah. For killing my mam? 168 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:43,600 No. 169 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,600 But I'm fighting to put that right. 170 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,119 What do you mean? 171 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:52,799 Well, I'm trying to change the law 172 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,960 so that your mam gets the justice she deserves. 173 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,680 And so I can help other people in the same situation as us. 174 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:04,280 Why did he kill her? 175 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:08,360 I don't know, love. 176 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:10,880 I don't think I'll ever know. 177 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,600 But I'm gonna make sure it wasn't for nothing. 178 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:17,679 EXHALES TEARFULLY 179 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:19,160 Come here. 180 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,280 TEARFULLY: I'm sorry for lying. 181 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,440 SHE SOBS 182 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,679 Why haven't they replied yet? The Law Commission? 183 00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:41,960 Yes, of course the Law Commission. 184 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,559 Sorry. It's just been weeks, Charlie. 185 00:11:47,560 --> 00:11:49,079 Maybe they're just very busy. 186 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:50,879 No. 187 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,439 We've been fobbed off yet again. 188 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:54,960 You don't know that. 189 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,199 Maybe we should go to London. 190 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,360 Get a meeting in person. 191 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,079 Well, that might be easier said than done, love. 192 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,440 Well, what do you suggest? You know I can't just give up. 193 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:14,639 SIGHS 194 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,239 I haven't the energy any more, love. 195 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:18,560 I'm sorry. 196 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,080 Told you you should've married someone younger. 197 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:29,960 Charlie. What? 198 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:34,159 Give me your hand. No, it's fine... 199 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:35,600 Give me it. 200 00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:38,279 Oh, darling. 201 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:39,440 It's getting worse. 202 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,159 There's no definitive test for it, 203 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,919 but based on the physical examination and your symptoms, 204 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,919 so the chronic fatigue and tremors, 205 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,119 then I'm afraid it is highly likely. 206 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:54,679 Thank you, doctor. 207 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:57,839 If you have any questions... No. Thank you. 208 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,279 You've been very helpful. 209 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,240 Come on. Mrs Ming. 210 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:07,279 ANN EXHALES 211 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,159 Thank you. 212 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:10,680 Charlie, wait. 213 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,200 We will get through this, Charlie. 214 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,240 What about the Law Commission? What are you talking about? 215 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,239 Everything's changed, love. No, it hasn't. 216 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,119 Yes, it has. This is about you now. 217 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,320 It's not, and nor should it be. 218 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,520 Not for a good while anyway. 219 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,519 I don't want you fussing over me. 220 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,000 What I want is for you to keep fighting. 221 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,519 I don't think that's true, Charlie. But it is. You have to, Ann. 222 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,239 Because otherwise, I don't think you'll ever find peace. 223 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,959 If the Law Commission have decided double jeopardy's not a priority, 224 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,439 then you need to do whatever it takes 225 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,480 to make them sit up and take notice. 226 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,120 OK? OK. 227 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,040 And don't stop till the fight is done. 228 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,879 With me on the show today is the mother of Julie Hogg, 229 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:31,599 a young woman murdered in 1989 by a man who has escaped justice 230 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,919 because of a centuries-old law known as double jeopardy. 231 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,959 Ann Ming, welcome to News Hour. Thanks, Penny. It's good to be here. 232 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,679 I should start by talking about double jeopardy, 233 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,799 which some people claim is there to prevent endless trials 234 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,039 of the same person. 235 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,439 'Now, I can understand why it was created more than 800 years ago, 236 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,159 'but today, it's not fit for purpose.' 237 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,199 It shouldn't apply to someone 238 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,239 who's openly boasted about committing a murder, 239 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,759 and that's exactly what my daughter's killer did. 240 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,199 He bragged about pulling off the perfect crime. 241 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,359 Now, if that's not a reason to change the law, 242 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:06,760 then I don't know what is. 243 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,839 You've embarked on quite a campaign, haven't you? 244 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,959 'Yes. Yes, I have, Penny. 245 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,719 'I'm doing newspapers and radio, a TV documentary, 246 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,040 'I'm talking to politicians, you name it.' 247 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,919 If you could follow me, Mrs Ming. 248 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,079 It must be painful, though. 249 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,559 'It is. But my daughter has been denied justice, 250 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,840 'and I won't stop until it's been rectified.' 251 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,759 I hear you're also going to be on national television 252 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:40,159 to debate Imran Khan, the lawyer for Stephen Lawrence's family? 253 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:41,959 'Yes, that's right. 254 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,839 'For some reason, he believes the law should stay as it is. 255 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:46,799 'So I'll have to change his mind, won't I?' 256 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,119 CREW MEMBER: 15 seconds. Stand by, please. 257 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,079 With all its power and resources, 258 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,159 the state shouldn't be permitted to make repeated, 259 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:55,919 theoretically unlimited attempts 260 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,079 to convict a man when he doesn't have the analogous resources 261 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:00,680 to find the evidence that clears him. 262 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,120 REPORTER: Would you agree, Mrs Ming? 263 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:07,879 Look, well, I don't know all these fancy words. 264 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,999 I just know that the law's unfair, and it needs to be changed. 265 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,959 Look, the real problem here's ineffectual police investigations. 266 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,839 Now, without double jeopardy, you'd just get sloppy police work 267 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,679 because they'd know they could just try again 268 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:21,159 if things didn't go their way. 269 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,639 But surely, there'd be safeguards for... to prevent that... 270 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:25,119 And where would that leave us? 271 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,839 With an individual living in a state of constant anxiety and insecurity, 272 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,919 subjected to embarrassment, expense and ordeal 273 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,680 and the police disincentivised to be rigorous or proficient. 274 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,000 Mrs Ming? 275 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,640 Er, you have a daughter, I believe, Mr Khan? 276 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,159 Yes, I do. 277 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,959 Well, if your daughter had been murdered 278 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,519 and a man had confessed to killing her in a court of law, 279 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,679 would you be happy with a perjury sentence? 280 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,559 Well, legally speaking... 281 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,880 No, I'm not talking as a lawyer, I'm talking as a father. 282 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:07,200 Well, I wouldn't say... Would you be happy with a perjury sentence? 283 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:12,319 Of course I wouldn't. 284 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:13,999 You wouldn't. Well, that says it all. 285 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,119 You can stop the cameras now because that says it all. 286 00:17:16,120 --> 00:17:18,559 He wouldn't be happy with a perjury sentence, and we're not. 287 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,079 And we'll go to the European Court of Human Rights if we have to 288 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:22,680 for justice for our daughter. 289 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,479 BREATHES HEAVILY 290 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,919 Mr Khan, Mrs Ming. Thank you very much for your time. 291 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,159 Yes, that's correct. How can I help you? 292 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:32,319 WOMAN: 'Is Mrs Ming there?' 293 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,559 No, I'm sorry, she's not here right now. 294 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:35,599 Can I give her a message? 295 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,399 'Oh, I'm calling from the Law Commission.' 296 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,039 Oh. 'Mr Wilkie would like to meet her.' 297 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:40,879 I see. 298 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,279 Right, I'll be sure to pass that on to her. 299 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,720 'Thank you very much.' Ta-ra. 300 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,959 That was them. Who? 301 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,119 The Law Commission. 302 00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:55,800 Alan Wilkie saw the debate on the telly. 303 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:58,920 Says he wants to meet you. 304 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,319 SHE CHUCKLES 305 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,559 I'm sorry for the delay 306 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,599 in responding to your thorough and very moving letter. 307 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,080 So you did read it, then? Yes. 308 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,680 Let's just say you've made yourself hard to ignore. 309 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,359 We know there are several other families around the country 310 00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:24,879 in your situation, and we were hoping... 311 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,759 35. I beg your pardon? 312 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,279 Other cases, that is. I've met most of them. 313 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,240 They are just as desperate for the law to be changed as us. 314 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:38,759 I'll get to the point, Ann. 315 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,039 Erm... We agree wholeheartedly 316 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,359 that a review should be a priority. 317 00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:47,079 Good. 318 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,119 But it needs to be retrospective. 319 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:51,280 Otherwise, it's of no bloody use to us. 320 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,519 We'll do what we can. 321 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,919 He's out in a few years, you see... the man who murdered our Julie. 322 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,759 So I hope you mean that. 323 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,399 It's understandable that you're keen to get things moving, 324 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,879 especially in the light of his appeal. 325 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,199 He's appealing? 326 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,960 Yes. Against his perjury sentence? 327 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,119 I'm sorry, I assumed you'd have heard. 328 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:16,279 Well, then... 329 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,199 then that's even more reason to get your skates on, isn't it? 330 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,200 No time for messing around! 331 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:24,799 About this appeal, Ann, 332 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,479 you might consider writing to the justices. 333 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,679 We're seeing some compelling evidence 334 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,679 that something called a victim impact statement 335 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:35,240 can influence the court. 336 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,239 I wrote one of those for his perjury case. 337 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,159 Didn't make a blind bit of difference. 338 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,599 You wrote an impact statement for the perjury sentencing? 339 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,439 Took years off my life, it did. Why? 340 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,879 No, I've read that file from cover to cover. 341 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,999 I'm sorry to say that there was no such statement in there. 342 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,679 What? But I... I handed it in at the CPS personally. 343 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,839 I can only imagine it's some sort of bureaucratic oversight. 344 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,959 Oh, for God's sake. No wonder he only got six years! 345 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,239 I was told it would play a big role in the judge's sentencing. 346 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,159 That's certainly how it's supposed to work. 347 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,039 God, it's like we don't bloody matter! 348 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,959 You must have a very low opinion of the legal establishment. 349 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,439 Honestly, Alan, it's been like this from the start. 350 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:18,839 The police not listening to me, 351 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:20,839 Julie's reputation dragged through the mud, 352 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,960 and now no-one's bothered to even read my statement. 353 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,639 I realise you probably won't want to write another impact statement. 354 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,600 But if you do, I will make sure that the justices read it. 355 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,560 You have my word on that. 356 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,120 You're writing another one? Yeah. 357 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,960 He's appealing his perjury sentence. Oh, for... 358 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,400 Yeah, you haven't forgotten we're out for Gary's birthday tonight? 359 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,199 No, course not. 360 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,039 A CPS courier's picking it up from the house at 4:30. 361 00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:59,480 I'll have plenty of time. 362 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,439 All right. I'll do you a coffee. 363 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:04,720 Yeah. Thanks, love. 364 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:10,039 TV PLAYS 365 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,920 What time's the taxi coming? 15 minutes. 366 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,800 You look very nice. Thank you. 367 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,279 They said they'd call to confirm they received it. 368 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:24,519 Hm? 369 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,639 I'm gonna have to call them, Charlie. 370 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,680 KEYPAD TONES 371 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,359 MAN: 'Royal Courts of Justice.' Hello. Yeah, erm, it's Ann Ming. 372 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:38,519 Case number 201208. 373 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,200 I'm calling to check that you received my impact statement. 374 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,919 'No, we haven't received anything for that case, I'm afraid.' 375 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:48,239 What? No, are you sure? 376 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,439 It should've been faxed over in the last hour or so. 377 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,159 'No, I can't see anything here.' Unbelievable. All right. 378 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:54,559 'I'll get them to send it again.' 379 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,599 Yeah, well, thanks. 'Thank you.' 380 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,119 They haven't bloody sent it. Who? 381 00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:02,199 The CPS! How hard is it to send a fax? 382 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,279 Where you going? You go ahead. 383 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:05,799 I'll just get there when I can. 384 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,759 Surely, you don't have to drive round there? Can't you just...? 385 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,239 Yes, I do! Look, I don't trust them to do anything after the last time. 386 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,239 Ann. Ann! 387 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,000 Just, er, tell Gary not to open his presents without me. 388 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,280 DOOR CLOSES 389 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:24,519 Is it finished? Sorry? 390 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,879 The meeting? Excuse me, miss, you can't go in there! 391 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,559 Oh, can't I? He's in the middle of a... 392 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,279 I'm sorry, sir. We've met before. 393 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:31,719 Excuse me. Do you remember? 394 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,399 A year or so ago. Mrs Ming... 395 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,639 I was promised that the judge at the perjury sentencing 396 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:36,959 would get my victim statement. 397 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:38,559 He never received it. As you can see... 398 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,319 And now the man who killed my daughter 399 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,719 is appealing against his poxy six-year sentence. 400 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,559 So do you know what I did? I wrote another one. 401 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,119 I went through the torture of reliving our Julie's murder, 402 00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:50,159 and I wrote another very detailed statement. 403 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,999 A statement I was promised would be in London before six o'clock today. 404 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,479 And guess what? You lot have bloody well let me down again! 405 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:56,719 Mrs Ming! No! 406 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,439 I will call Frank Cook, Alan Wilkie, Jack bleedin' Straw if I have to! 407 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,559 I am not leaving this room 408 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,000 until you call the clerk of court in London and fax him my document! 409 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,040 I think I'd listen to Mrs Ming if I were you. 410 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,760 KEYPAD TONES Thank you. 411 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:41,760 Where is everyone? 412 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,720 They left already? They waited as long as they could. 413 00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:51,800 They've got their own lives, Ann. 414 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,400 I thought I'd make it. 415 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,719 I didn't know what to order, so... 416 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,040 No, this is fine, thanks. Yeah. 417 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,400 If it's cold, I can ask them that... It's fine, thanks. 418 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:35,000 I wish I could be in two places at once. 419 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,800 But you can't, Ann. 420 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:41,960 It's not for nothing, Charlie. 421 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:45,400 I hope you're right. 422 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,439 Now, remember, it really isn't the end of the world 423 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,839 if this appeal is successful and his sentence is reduced. 424 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,919 Anything that puts that man back on the streets 425 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,519 is catastrophic in my book. 426 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,599 Well, let's keep everything crossed. 427 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,479 Having considered the evidence, 428 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,079 and especially in light of the, er... 429 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,879 thorough and affecting victim impact statement 430 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:19,879 supplied by Mrs Ming, we are unanimous in our judgement 431 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,279 that a sentence of six years was not manifestly excessive, 432 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:28,119 and we do not seek to interfere with the judge's ruling. 433 00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:32,559 And consequently, we dismiss the appeal against the sentence. 434 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,519 EXHALES 435 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:36,680 Thank goodness for that. 436 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:40,879 So, what happens next, about double jeopardy? 437 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,439 Well, that's a small matter 438 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,039 of unpicking 800 years of legal history. 439 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,479 But, you know, it's in the hands of the Home Secretary 440 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,279 and the Lord Chancellor now. 441 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,319 They have our report, and they'll give it their consideration. 442 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,680 How long will that take? Shouldn't be too long. 443 00:25:58,280 --> 00:25:59,720 Right. 444 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,519 Thanks for coming with me. I wouldn't miss it for anything. 445 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,599 I know it's not easy for you. 446 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,520 You know, it will be quite something if they overturn the law. 447 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,199 Well, unless it's retrospective, it's all been for nothing. 448 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:21,799 No. 449 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,080 Whatever happens, you've done her proud. 450 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,600 Government white paper, and all because of you. 451 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,640 We best get going. Aye. 452 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,279 Right, you look after Angela for us, won't you? 453 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,759 Mwah. Got everything. 454 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,079 I wanna come too. 455 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,559 Oh, no, darling, I don't think that's a good idea. 456 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,400 Why not? Why shouldn't I be there? 457 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,600 I wanna be there to support you. 458 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,360 And for my mam. 459 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,479 I'm just... I'm getting nervous now. Ah, don't be nervous. 460 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,079 Does my hair look all right in this wind? 461 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,799 Your hair looks great. You look very nice. 462 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,639 It's blowing everywhere. You look very nice. 463 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,439 REPORTERS CLAMOUR 464 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:13,920 No. 465 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,120 Thank you. 466 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,279 Hello. 467 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,159 Hello. My name's Ann Ming. I'm here... 468 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,840 This is for you, Mrs Ming. Oh, thank you. 469 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:28,999 GASPS 470 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,239 Oh, God, it's retrospective! 471 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,799 The double jeopardy law's being overturned, 472 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,799 and it's gonna be retrospective. 473 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:36,839 Oh, I can't believe it. 474 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:38,839 REPORTER: It's a monumental moment for you, Ann. 475 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,719 It is, yeah. I'm shaking. God! 476 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,719 I just can't believe it. ANN LAUGHS 477 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,360 REPORTERS CHATTER 478 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,639 Well, I suppose the lesson is... 479 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,879 being a bloody-minded pain in the arse can pay off sometimes. 480 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,079 MARK LAUGHS Yes. 481 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,400 Here's to you. Frank! Hiya. Aw. 482 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,239 Sorry I couldn't be there. 483 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,199 But you probably heard me cheering from the other end of the A1. 484 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,999 Do you know Mark Braithwaite? He's another one of the good guys. 485 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,239 Nice to meet you, Mark. Likewise. Take a seat. 486 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,959 Without fellas like you, we'd never have achieved what we have. 487 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,760 Well, we're not quite there yet. 488 00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:17,879 Which is not to say we shouldn't celebrate. 489 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,199 You've got to recognise your victories 490 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:21,759 along the way, haven't you? 491 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,599 Well, I... I mean, I know it needs to be debated, but I... 492 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,759 From what I understand, after a bit of back and forth, 493 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,399 it is likely to get the votes, isn't it? 494 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,279 In the Commons, yes. 495 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,479 But remember, the Lords is a different matter. 496 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,279 There you go. Thanks. 497 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,839 They're a bunch of old conservative white men in the main. 498 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:43,159 They're not generally keen on dismantling ancient English laws. 499 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,400 Well, do you think they'll block it? 500 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:48,999 I won't lie. 501 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,920 I think it'll be tough to get through. 502 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,199 Well, who do I talk to? About what? 503 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaking to the Lords. Would they allow it? 504 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,119 It's very unconventional. 505 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,919 But it is allowed? You'd really do that? 506 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,759 Make a speech to the Lords? 507 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,199 Can you help me or not? 508 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,159 HE SCOFFS 509 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,639 I know Lord Falconer a little. Let me speak to him. 510 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:14,999 Thanks. 511 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,839 Don't screw it up. I'll try not to. 512 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,640 Good luck with that. FRANK CHUCKLES 513 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,640 Safe and sober or bold and red? Hmm. 514 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,320 I'd play it safe if I were you. 515 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,599 Are you sure you don't wanna come with me? 516 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:38,880 I'd love to. 517 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,320 I just... 518 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,799 Right. 519 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,799 Now some shoes. 520 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,080 You'll look great whatever you wear. 521 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:00,560 MAN: Good morning. 522 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,399 This must all seem rather grand to you, but don't worry. 523 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,639 The committee room isn't quite as medieval. 524 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:13,719 MAN: Morning. Morning. 525 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,159 MAN: Morning. Morning? It's 2:30 in the afternoon. 526 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,879 Well, it's always morning here until the House sits. 527 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,799 One of our little conventions. BELL RINGS 528 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,079 Now, when we vote, we queue in two lines, 529 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,479 either the content or the not-content corridor, 530 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,079 and we are counted off by a peer holding a drumstick. 531 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:34,600 Musical or chicken? 532 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,719 HE CHUCKLES Right, here we are. 533 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,239 You ready? Er... yeah. 534 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,279 You do have a speech, don't you? 535 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,639 I've made some notes, but I don't think I'll need them. 536 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,439 Mrs Ming, these are some of the most powerful 537 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,759 and respected people in the country. 538 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,600 I have seen seasoned speakers go completely dry. 539 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,639 Look, I may not be hoity-toity like you lot, 540 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,280 but I know what I wanna say. 541 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,040 I've had 13 years to think about it. 542 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,040 All right. All right. 543 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:14,239 My most noble and learned Lords, 544 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,279 may I introduce my guest today... 545 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,559 Mrs Ann Ming, who'll be talking to us 546 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,919 with regards to the Criminal Justice Bill, 547 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:25,919 specifically part 10, 548 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,719 which concerns the so-called double jeopardy rule. 549 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,240 LORDS CHATTER 550 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:34,719 Thank you. 551 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,320 ANN CLEARS THROAT 552 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,519 My Lords and Ladies, erm... 553 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:48,079 thank you most humbly for, erm, letting me speak today. 554 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,920 I'll try not to take up too much of your time. 555 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,159 On November 16th, 1989, 556 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,840 our eldest daughter, Julie, went missing. 557 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,119 The police, when I spoke to them... 558 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,799 We hadn't seen her, you see, since the previous day, 559 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,519 and she was due in court in Stockton the next morning... 560 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:10,800 Speak up. 561 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,999 SHE CLEARS THROAT 562 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,519 Anyway, I had a gut... 563 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,879 a gut feeling that something dreadful had happened to her. 564 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,240 The police spent a week searching her home, and they found nothing. 565 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,920 Look, I'm gonna tell you how it feels to lose a child. 566 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,000 And how it feels to be shafted by the law. 567 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,800 There have been two moments of deep trauma in my life. 568 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,760 One was the moment I found my daughter's body under the bath. 569 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,160 13 years later, I still have nightmares. 570 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:05,559 The second was the moment 571 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,760 I had to watch my daughter's murderer walk free. 572 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,160 Nobody here will ever, ever know how that feels. 573 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,600 Trusting the state to bring you justice and peace... 574 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,119 ..only to find yourself marginalised and betrayed. 575 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,399 For you, the law is just something you make for others 576 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,559 in this ivory tower with your inherited privileges. 577 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,559 But for me, it's a cancer. 578 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,999 For the last 13 years, I have fought to get justice for Julie. 579 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,239 I've had to deal with rank police incompetence, 580 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,879 two mistrials, two home secretaries 581 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,359 and a CPS who didn't even seem to care about us victims. 582 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,000 On top of all that... 583 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,639 ..I had to figure out a way 584 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,600 of telling my grandson what happened to his mammy... 585 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,399 ..and how to keep my marriage together 586 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,519 when me and my husband, Charlie, were drowning in grief. 587 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:04,760 EXHALES 588 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,239 No, look, I don't want your sympathy, I just... 589 00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:09,519 I just need you to listen. 590 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,639 If someone is sent to prison for a crime 591 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,599 and new evidence proves that they were innocent all along, 592 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,319 well, it's only right that they should walk free. 593 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,519 Well, surely, it should work the other way round, too. 594 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,239 If someone is acquitted 595 00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:27,239 and new evidence proves that they were guilty all along, 596 00:34:27,240 --> 00:34:29,520 well, then they should take the rap for it. 597 00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:34,919 Look, I'm not... 598 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,320 I'm not interested in revenge or even compensation. 599 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,519 I just want the man who took our little girl from us 600 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,000 to pay for his crime. 601 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,240 Our daughter's right to life was stolen from her. 602 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,239 The only way we can get justice 603 00:34:55,240 --> 00:34:58,720 is by changing the double jeopardy law retrospectively. 604 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,760 LORDS: Hear, hear. 605 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,280 Thank you. 606 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,440 Fancy seeing you here. 607 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,159 I'm here all the time. 608 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,839 You are? I didn't know that. 609 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:35,720 There's a lot you don't know, Mam. 610 00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:41,879 I don't think I've got the energy to keep on fighting, you know. 611 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,079 If the Lords block it... 612 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,000 SHE EXHALES DEEPLY 613 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,559 Do you ever see her? Who? 614 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,000 Our Julie. 615 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,040 I miss her so much. SHE SIGHS 616 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,919 I don't care... who she was with, 617 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,039 what she went through in her private life. 618 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:04,599 I just... 619 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,640 I just wish I could tell her that I love her. 620 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,960 Mam. What? 621 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,600 I miss her too. 622 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,880 But I think you need to move on, Mam. 623 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:26,480 I think you need to let her go. 624 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:30,480 What do you mean? 625 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,560 I'm saying, Mam, that you've got two living children. 626 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,920 Gary, love... Bye, Mam. 627 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:54,079 DOOR CLOSES 628 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,359 Where have you been? Huh? 629 00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,039 We've been waiting for hours! Who's been waiting? 630 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,079 Well, come and see. What? 631 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:03,280 Through here, love. 632 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,719 SHE CHUCKLES Frank. 633 00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:08,679 It's my birthday today. 634 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,559 And it's the best one I've ever had. BOTTLE POPS 635 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:13,920 Congratulations. 636 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,560 The bill's gone through, love. It's got through the Lords. 637 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:22,600 And it's retrospective. 638 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,319 What? It is true, Ann. 639 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,239 SHE MUMBLES Really? 640 00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:30,119 We've done it. 641 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,239 You've done it. 642 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:33,999 SHE SOBS 643 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,760 Really, has it happened? Oh, God. 644 00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:42,639 Oh, my God, I can't believe it. It's over. 645 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,599 Oh, no, really? Yeah. 646 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,119 SHE SOBS 647 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,639 TEARFULLY: Charlie, we did it. No, you did it. You did. 648 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,159 We did. 649 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,679 Oh, God, it's all over. 650 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,439 We've won. 651 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,719 SHE SOBS We did it. 652 00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:00,680 You did it, it was all you. 653 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,999 My government will continue to make the reduction of crime 654 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,839 and the fear of crime a priority. 655 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,439 The government will be implementing the Criminal Justice Act 656 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,839 to ensure the effective punishment 657 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,719 of dangerous and persistent offenders. 658 00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:21,119 REPORTER: It took the High Court only a matter of minutes 659 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,799 to quash the original acquittal of October 1991, 660 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,759 opening the door to today's historic retrial 661 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,479 in the case of Julie Hogg's murder. REPORTERS CLAMOUR 662 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,879 Mrs Ming, do you think they'll let him off the hook? 663 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,639 What do you mean, "let him off the hook"? 664 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,279 Well, the judge might decide he's spent long enough in prison. 665 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:39,759 He's done nearly ten years. 666 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,560 What does she mean by that? Let's get you inside. 667 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,599 In deciding your sentence, 668 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,359 I have borne in mind your guilty plea, 669 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,119 which has saved Julie Hogg's family and friends 670 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,999 from enduring a further trial. 671 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,119 Before I come to sentence you, I should like to read an extract 672 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,639 from Mrs Ming's impact statement, 673 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,279 a harrowing and moving account 674 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,720 of the harm you have done to the family. 675 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,359 "As a family, we are damaged beyond repair 676 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,760 "and will never be the same again as Julie will never return home. 677 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,199 "The love we feel for Julie 678 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:29,199 "means it is we who are serving the life sentence. 679 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:34,479 "Julie's son, Kevin, has missed out on a mother's love. 680 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,079 "He has missed out on a childhood. 681 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,640 "All he has left of her are a few photographs." 682 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,320 Notwithstanding your guilty plea... 683 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:55,959 ..I have seen no evidence of genuine contrition on your part 684 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,800 as opposed to evident self-pity... 685 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,159 ..and attempts by you to avoid or minimise 686 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,920 the proper consequences of what you have done. 687 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,639 Those consequences are that on the count of murder, 688 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,879 you will be imprisoned for life 689 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,519 with a minimum tariff of 17 years. 690 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:19,720 Mm. 691 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,320 Take him down. 692 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,239 REPORTER: Ann! Ann! 693 00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:47,519 I... I just can't believe what's happened today. 694 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,279 I can't believe that we've finally got justice for our daughter. 695 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:51,599 I'd, erm... 696 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,719 Mrs Ming, this is the first person in Britain to be convicted 697 00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:57,159 of a crime for which they'd previously been acquitted. 698 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,239 It's historic, isn't it? 699 00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:01,720 Yeah, I suppose. Suppose it is, really, yeah. 700 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,639 Sorry, it's not often that I'm speechless. 701 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,759 Your campaign, it has taken up so much of your life. 702 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,320 What will you do now? 703 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,680 Erm, more line dancing, probably. 704 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,919 Ann, I don't think you realise quite what you've achieved. 705 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:23,719 Don't be daft. 706 00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:27,519 To overturn one of the most established legal principles 707 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,199 in Western democracy. 708 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,879 People talk about speaking truth to power. 709 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,719 Well, you've made history today. 710 00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:38,639 I just hope he never gets out. 711 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,639 You've ignited a debate around the world. 712 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,079 Every country with double jeopardy laws 713 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,160 has been watching us very closely indeed. 714 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,599 Here, Mark's got us another round to celebrate. You deserve that. 715 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,199 It's the least we deserve. 716 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,239 To Ann! MEN: To Ann. 717 00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:56,840 Cheers. 718 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,480 COUNTRY POP MUSIC PLAYS 719 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,919 Do people do this sober? 720 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,680 Nothing to be worried about. 721 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,759 I'm getting a drink. A large one. What do you want? 722 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,400 Whatever they've got. 723 00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:29,039 # This used to be my heart 724 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,119 # I was torn apart 725 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,159 # And I'm fading 726 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,839 # Deeper in my soul 727 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,399 # Blackening, so cold 728 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:44,080 # I'm fading away. # 729 00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:20,200 LAUGHS TEARFULLY 730 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,240 Queue was too long. I'll go back in a few minutes. 731 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,839 What's wrong? Is everything OK? 732 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,039 MAN: 'All right, everyone, are we all ready? Grab your favourite...' 733 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,479 You all right? '..pair of cowboy boots, it's time.' 734 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,999 Yeah. I'm OK. 'A-five, six...' 735 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:54,039 I'm OK. 736 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:55,959 'A-five, six, seven, eight.' You sure? 737 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:57,839 COUNTRY POP MUSIC PLAYS 738 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,679 I love you. Gosh, that's nice. 739 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:01,879 Oh, it's starting. 740 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,759 Bloody hell, is that it? Let's have a go. 741 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,519 # Out on the road for sunrise 742 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,319 # Another town left behind 743 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:13,119 # Opened up the throttle On this old big rig 744 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,759 # And tried to make up A little time 745 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,559 # If I can drop this load off early 746 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,159 # I'll pick another one up tonight 747 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,439 # Make it to the woods And keep the end of the road 748 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,599 # Only just out of sight 749 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,839 # I'ma clicking those miles... # 750 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,959 Oh, you came! I can't believe that you came. 751 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,399 All right, Dad? Hi, Dad. 752 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,519 Hiya, Mam, all right? 753 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,679 I think I need my head checking. Come on, it'll be fun. 754 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:40,240 Come on. 755 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,799 You know the moves, Mam! 756 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,639 # Everything's all right 757 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:51,319 # And I always keep The end of the road 758 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:52,919 # Just out of sight 759 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,999 # I'ma clicking those miles 760 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:57,959 # There ain't no reason To count... # 761 00:44:57,960 --> 00:44:59,960 MUSIC FADES 762 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,600 APPLAUSE 763 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,240 Subtitles by accessibility@itv.com 58052

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.