All language subtitles for fffffii

- We declare
prophetically that marriage

shall rule within the land.

One man-one woman marriage will
be established in this nation.

- This is
the story of a network

of American
religious organizations

known as the World Congress
of Families.

They're out to protect
traditional family values.

- We are better
together as one man--

- But they've
lost the battle at home.

Same-sex marriage is
now legal across the U.S.

- Marriage is the union
of one man and one woman.

[cheers and applause]

[tense music]

- So they're exporting
their message

across the globe.

[all shouting]

- Homosexuality does
not benefit the society.

It harms
the people that engage in it.

- These groups
and their associates

are setting their sights
on Europe at the same time

as gay hate is on the rise.

- From their corners,
six bald-headed

neo-Nazis approached me.

It was fucking terrifying.

- The strategy
thrives on the vilification

of LGBTQ people as
fundamental threats to society.

- And the laws
they support are having

devastating consequences.

- Tonight, we investigate
this network of organizations

and challenge their leaders
on the laws they've supported.

- Do you accept
any responsibility

for the consequences
of this legislation?

- We have no responsibility
for the legislation.

We affirm and celebrate
beauty, goodness, and truth,

and that's what
families are about.

[tense music]

- Russia, 2013.

We filmed a gay man
being hunted by a group

of anti-gay activists.

He was lured over
the internet, thinking he

was meeting another gay man.

Instead, he was
trapped and then beaten.

- Groups like this felt
emboldened after the Russian

Parliament passed a law,
which included forbidding

the promotion
of gay relationships

to children
and restricted adoption

by homosexual couples.

[tense music]

In the two years that followed
this legislative change,

Human Rights Watch observed
a spike in homophobic attacks

across Russia, which were
then posted on the internet

to continue the humiliation.

- We have seen
an enormous amount

of attacks
against gays and lesbians

that have
multiplied across Russia.

They use the pretext of
fighting pedophilia in Russia

to attack gay people.

There hasn't been
really a public statement

from the authorities
condemning this-- this attacks

and these crimes.

And so this men
who attack gay men in Russia

feel that this
is actually supported

by Russian authorities,
by Russian public,

and that they're actually
doing the right thing.

[tense music]

- Just days after
the law was passed,

a Russian Parliamentary
meeting was called

to discuss further laws
banning adoption

by same-sex couples.

We've discovered
that there was an American

at the table, Brian Brown.

He also gave a speech
to the committee,

which was being chaired
by Yelena Mizulina,

the very legislator behind
the anti-gay propaganda law.

In it, he said
he hoped his invitation would

contribute to the development
of this movement

throughout the world.

And he was also happy to
appear on Russian television

shortly after the meeting.

- This is what
Brian Brown had to say

when challenged
about his trip to Russia

on American television.

- Organizations like
Mr. Brown's are going over

to places like Russia to work

with Putin and his team
to pass--

- [laughs]

- --viciously
anti-gay-- you can laugh,

but you did it, Mr. Brown.

- You can respond.
- You went to Russia.

- I will definitely respond.

This is a slur.

I never worked-- I never--

- Hold on. First of all.
- May I finish?

- Well, let him respond because
you made-- you made the claim.

- You made
an absolutely false claim

that I somehow worked
with President Putin or anyone

like that.
- Were you in Russia?

Were you in Russia
for that conference?

- I go all around the world.
- Hold on.

- And of course, we would go to
Russia, just like groups that--

Freedom to Marry and HRC
are members of go to Geneva,

go to Russia, go all
around the world to advocate--

- Did you endorse
a resolution--

did you endorse a resolution--

- Brian Brown
confirmed to us that he

had spoken to the Russian
parliamentary subcommittee.

He said, "I was invited
to speak on the experience

of Americans
who support the truth

that marriage is the union
of one man and one woman.

I was not advocating
any piece of legislation.

It is demonstrably false
and a slur to claim that we

support violence or hatred.

I'm an advocate for marriage
because it is a true and good

institution and has
proven itself over centuries

as our best means
to bring men and women

together and to
provide the ideal environment

for raising children."

[tense music]

We decided to find
out more about Brian Brown

and the global activities
of the movement he belongs to.

This investigation
will take us across four

continents
following the trail

left by this network.

But we begin on their home
territory here in the USA.

- Thank you all, and
God bless you all, and praise

to God forever and ever.

Amen.

[cheers and applause]

- Brian Brown is
an American on a mission.

- We're here gathering
for something so simple,

that mothers and fathers
are different and unique

and special,
that marriage is the union

of one man and one woman.

[cheers and applause]

- He's president of
the National Organization

for Marriage,
an American group that

opposes the legalization
of gay marriage

in the United States.

[together]
# Nobody is stronger #

# Nobody is greater #

- Their annual March for
Marriage in Washington, D.C.,

attracts thousands
from across the country.

[together]
One man, one woman.

One man, one woman.

- Come on!

[together]
One man, one woman.

- But this summer, the Supreme
Court made gay marriage

legal in all U.S. states.

Yet a third of
Americans still oppose it.

- We stand for
the truth about marriage.

And we know that someday,
whether it's one year--

- While the official speakers
stick resolutely to a positive

message, some of
their supporters display

a negative
anti-gay sentiment echoing

what we'd heard in Russia.

- So tell me
what the difference

is between
molestation and homosexual sex.

What is the difference?

- Consenting adults.

- Yeah, two
people who love each other

versus maybe someone who's not
consenting who's being raped.

It's not the same thing.
- It's abomination.

They destroyed
Sodom and Gomorrah because

of the abomination of sodomy.

- I just want to
share for a moment what

intolerance and disrespect is.

It was the homosexual
man who tried to rape me

when I was a minor as a child.

That's intolerance
and disrespect.

Thank you.

- God said,
it's one man and one woman.

He said,
if you turn your back on him,

he will turn his back on us.

- The tensions that have
built up on this issue

have also been
playing out in American homes,

particularly in
the conservative states.

- Daniel, I want to
tell you before I say

anything else that I love you.

You have made a choice.

- I have not--

- Evidently from what
you've told your daddy.

- I have not--

- In Georgia, in the heart
of the Bible Belt,

teenager Daniel Pierce
secretly filmed

his parents' reaction
after he told them he was gay.

- And I have known
that you were gay since you

were a tiny little boy.

- Mm-hmm.

So you would know at
this point, it's not a choice.

- And you have made a choice.

- I have not made a choice.

- Evidently from what
you've told your daddy.

But I believe
in the word of God,

and God
creates nobody that way.

You will need to move out and
find wherever you can to live

and do what you want to because
I will not let people believe

that I condone what you do.

- You're twisting my words.

You are a complete--

- You twist everybody's words.

- You are
a completely different person.

- Let me tell you something,
you little piece of--

- No, no.

You're not
gonna fucking hit me!

- No!

- Hey.

- You son of a bitch.

Get off me, bitch!

Get off me!

- Let me tell you something.

- Get out!

- Stop it. Stop it.

Stop it.
Stop it.

- Get off of me!

What's wrong with you?

- Now at
a time where we've seen

judges and
courts decide that they

have the right to
redefine what God has created,

we are here today to say, no.

- Brian Brown's organization
is part of a global family

of religious
conservative groups

who are taking
their traditional family

message to the world.

They have
joined forces as members

of an umbrella organization,

the World Congress
of Families.

The World Congress
of Families promote

themselves as a wholesome,
family values organization.

They provide a platform
for like-minded groups

to network, exchange
ideas, and promote their cause

throughout the world.

Groups that make up
the World Congress of Families

have combined total budgets
of almost $200 million a year.

Their partners are
funded by large corporations,

single donors,
foundations, and charities

largely from
the Christian right.

It publicly
states that its mission is

to restore the natural family.

- The World Congress
of Families is a network.

It's a big tent organization.

It really
represents a global coalition

of conservative
religious orthodoxies.

It involves some conservative
Muslims, conservative Jews,

and a variety of other faiths.

Its purpose is to advance
its agenda by networking

and developing a shared agenda
among multiple organizations in

the United States and abroad.

They're working with insiders,
networking the power brokers

to achieve their goals.

What they need is to get
the right people in the room

together to develop
the right relationships

in order to be
able to influence

the passage of legislation.

And that's what
they've been so effective at.

The public policy
passed by Putin in Russia

is considered a victory by
the World Congress of Families

and its member organizations.

- With the passing of
the anti-gay propaganda law

in Russia, the World Congress
of Families had gained

a powerful ally in the East.

We can also reveal how
one of their key partners

has tried to
influence the internal affairs

of a European nation.

[tense music]

- From their corners,
six bald-headed

neo-Nazis approached me.

It was fucking terrifying.

[tense music]

- Since Slovakia
joined the European Union,

gay rights activists have been
emboldened by European human

rights legislation.

[upbeat music]

The first gay pride
march in Slovakia was in 2010.

However,
it met with a backlash

from neo-Nazi gay-hate groups.

[all chanting]

[sirens wailing]

[tense music]

Ramana Schlesinger
has helped organize

gay pride marches in Slovakia.

It's made her a target
for gay-hating vigilantes,

all too reminiscent
of the attacks in Russia.

- So one day,
I got this message from a girl,

who introduced
herself as a member

of an anti-fascist movement.

And she said
that she has some piece

of information on
the attacks of neo-Nazi people

on a gay pride.

And we set up
a meeting in this place.

I came here.

And that nice
girl was not here.

I called the phone.

The phone was dead.

And then just
right from that corner,

six bald-headed
neo-Nazis approached me.

It was fucking terrifying.

[tense music]

- Ramana escaped by
running into the supermarket

for safety.

However, she and
many of her LGBT friends

have suffered
increasing numbers of attacks

and now feel
persecuted and demoralized.

- Just the last weeks,
there have been attacks.

There was a suicide,
unfortunately, successful one.

Some people feel
that there's a threat

of physical
violence, especially

gay men and trans women.

But then the kind of
mental and psychological

pressure, months and months of
attacks by the church, by the--

the radical groups, by civic
society under the articles,

by the comments
on the social media.

The situation is
getting worse, and no one's

listening to us
because on the first sight,

everything's so calm.

We're so civilized.

We're in the European Union.

We have
anti-discrimination law.

You know, we are
a civilized society.

- With tensions
rising, a Slovakian pro-family

group began a campaign to stop
same-sex marriage in Slovakia.

They wanted a referendum.

The aim of the referendum
was to get it

into the constitution

that marriage can only ever
be between a man and a woman.

And it went further.

Gay couples would
be permanently banned

from adopting
children, and parents

would be able to
withdraw their children

from sex education in schools.

- [speaking in native language]

- 350,000 signatures were
needed

to trigger the referendum.

The Catholic Church
played a key role.

Priests lobbied their
conservative parishioners.

Petitions were placed
at the back of churches.

The threshold was met.

But Slovakia's
president decided

that the referendum
questions had to be approved

by the constitutional court.

It was at this point a leading
partner of the World Congress

of Families got involved,

the Alliance
Defending Freedom.

They provide
international legal support

wherever they consider
Christian beliefs

are under attack.

The Alliance Defending Freedom
engaged Slovakian MP

and former
deputy prime minister

Daniel Lipsic, who is also
a constitutional attorney.

- Alliance Defending Freedom
is becoming more

of an international operation.

They have their office,
their headquarters in Europe,

in Vienna, and
they are, I understand,

starting offices in Strasbourg
and Brussels and Geneva.

And I'm happy to work for
them, as I think they are doing

a very important job here,
because many of these cases

that concerns
traditional values,

the other side
was prepared there.

They had their lawyers.

They had their briefs.

But the more
conservative side

sometimes lost their cases

not because they were
present, but because they

were not present.

[tense music]

- Lipsic was paid to
prepare a legal document,

known as an amicus brief,
to try and influence the judge

of the constitutional court.

[tense music]

British journalist
Liz McKean interviewed Lipsic

and questioned
him about the work

he'd done for the Americans.

- We're talking about an
internal matter for Slovakia.

So what's it got to do
with American Christians?

- It has nothing to do
with American Christians.

- But you've
written a brief for the ADF.

- Yes.

- But this is
a Slovakian matter.

What on Earth has it got
to do with American Christians?

- Well, first,
I have worked on few cases

with
Alliance Defending Freedom.

And from what I understand--

I am not their employee--
but from what I understand--

- You're paid by them.

- On specific cases?

Of course, yes.

The lawyers-- the lawyers--

- Are they interfering?

Are they meddling
in other countries?

- The lawyers that--

oh, I mean, you have
a lot of organizations that

are on the other side that are
financed by the EU or the U.S.,

for that matter, NGOs.

And that's--
that's-- that's fine.

- Lipsic's work for
the Alliance Defending Freedom

proved fruitful,
and the referendum

went ahead in early February.

But with a turnout
of only 21%,

it was declared invalid
and failed.

[tense music]

It's not the only
work that full-time MP

Daniel Lipsic has been doing

for this American
organization.

We discovered
that during 2012,

Lipsic was paid 78,000 euros

by the Alliance Defending
Freedom, almost double his

annual salary for being an MP.

[tense music]

- I mean, one year,
you earned more from the ADF

than you did from
your own parliament.

- That is right.

- Do you think
the Slovacs mind?

- Then--

- Would they mind if they knew
that the Americans were so

involved in this referendum?

- Again, I don't think
the Americans are involved

in the referendum at all.

- Well, they've--

- The-- the--

- --asked you to
write a brief for it.

They've involved themselves
with the constitutional court.

- They-- they have just asked
me to write an amicus brief.

And in fact,
it was very transparent.

We had a press conference
with a colleague of mine

that has
the Vienna office of ADF.

It's not anything
behind the curtain at all.

- What we see is that U.S.
Christian right organizations

active abroad
develop relationships

with local political
figures, religious leaders,

and other people who become
the representatives of

those organizations locally.

So typically, you will not see
an American from the Alliance

Defending Freedom or from
the American Center for Law

and Justice or from some
of these other organizations

appearing on local
television and so forth.

In Nigeria,
you will see a Nigerian face.

In Slovakia,
you will see a Slovakian face.

- We have discovered that
the Alliance Defending Freedom

have been extremely
active challenging

human rights legislation
in many European countries.

In the course of
their work in 2012-'13,

they spent around a million
U.S. dollars in Europe alone.

Doctoral researcher
Laura Van den Eynde

has been tracking
the Alliance Defending Freedom

and has observed
a clear growth

in their activities in Europe.

- The strategy of
the Alliance Defending Freedom

can be compared
to a global domino game.

They were litigating in the
U.S.,

and they lost an important case

on LGBT rights, which was
citing a European court

of human rights decision.

So they said,
well, if that's the game,

we are going to play it,
and we are going to be active

in Europe, too, trying
to influence cases abroad

in case
they would come back home.

I think the U.S. is
still their main battle,

and you can really see that in
the press release the issue

that they always say
on cases in which they're

active outside of the U.S.,

the Alliance Defending
Freedom is

interested in this case
because it wants to head off

any opportunity
for a U.S. activist

to cite a foreign case
as a practice to follow.

So you can say that the
Alliance Defending Freedom

is prolific and is growing.

- A spokesman for
the Alliance Defending Freedom

said, "Mr. Lipsic has had a
long and amicable relationship

with the organizers
of the initiative

that led to the constitutional
referendum in Slovakia.

He was originally
contacted because

of his high
profile within Slovakia

and his expertise
in constitutional law.

Mr. Lipsic's
payment, though not moderate,

was commensurate
with his political

and legal experience.

The statements
you cite are fundamentally

erroneous and
disconnected from reality."

[tense music]

Every few years,
the World Congress of Families

brings its partners together,
most recently at a pro-family

event in Moscow.

Even Yelena Mizulina
was there,

the Russian legislator behind
the anti-gay propaganda law.

Leading the World Congress
of Families' delegation

was its managing
director Larry Jacobs.

- Thank you.

Greetings to all of you from--

from myself, as well
as from all the pro-family

leaders that I work
with from more than 80

countries in the world.

I am so honored to be
here among the Russian people

and those
that stand for family and life.

- World Congress of
Families' leaders have

made frequent
trips to Russia meeting

with pro-family legislators.

[tense music]

But as we've
seen, there is evidence

that this
legislation has triggered

a rise in homophobic attacks.

British journalist Liz MacKean
visited the World Congress

of Families at their
headquarters in Rockford,

Illinois,
where she had arranged

to interview their managing
director Larry Jacobs.

- Hi.

- Larry, Liz MacKean.

- Nice to meet you, Liz.

Welcome.

- You, too.

What is your position
on gay marriage?

- Our position is
consistent with our definition

of the natural family found
in the Universal Declaration

of Human Rights,
which says that

the-- the family is the natural
and fundamental of society.

And if you look
at other provisions,

it says that a man and a woman
have the right to marry.

- The World Congress
of Families

has spoken out in
favor of Russia's so-called

pro-family law.

Human Rights Watch
found evidence

that it led to a surge
in attacks against gays.

Would Jacob see
the cause and effect?

- Are you concerned with the
Human Rights Watch's findings,

which is
that once the law was passed,

it led to an increase
in homophobic attacks

against the LGBT community?

- I am concerned, and I--

I deplore any violence against
any group, whether it's--

- Do you accept that there
was this increase in violence

after the passing
of the legislation?

- I don't accept.

I haven't seen
that particular report.

So I can't accept
something I haven't seen.

- Well, it's bound
to happen, isn't it,

if you say that children
need protection from

non-traditional relationships?

You're going to make
things difficult for that

particular group of people.

- If you're speaking about
the particular law in Russia,

it's a civil law.

It's a-- it's a fine.

It's not-- it has no provision
for criminal penalties and--

- But people
use it as an excuse.

I mean, I met someone--
- That is wrong.

That is wrong.

People should not use
laws to protect children,

and they also should not--

if they haven't
read the law,

they shouldn't propagandize
about the law that doesn't even

use the word homosexuality.

So--

- Non-traditional
relationships.

That doesn't mean
anything else, does it?

- Yes, it does. It refers to--

- Including homosexuality.

- --bestiality.

No, it can refer to a bunch--

it does-- it's
been defined to include

all kinds of other forms.

- So you're bracketing
homosexuality with bestiality?

- No, I'm not, absolutely not.

I'm telling you it doesn't
use the word "homosexuality."

- The Russian law may not
use the word "homosexuality,"

but after it was passed,

Jacobs issued a statement
welcoming

the new legislation,
in which he makes specific

reference to homosexuality.

[tense music]

- People dislike
homosexuals in Russia.

And this legislation has
encouraged that atmosphere.

- Have you been to Russia?
- Yes, I have.

- How many times?

- I've been several times.

- Well, so have I, and to the
extent that any law would be

used to-- to-- to persecute
any minority, whether in Russia

or anywhere else, is wrong.

- I spoke to
someone who told me

he felt perfectly entitled to
attack homosexual men because

of the new law.

I'm obeying
the law, he told me.

- Well, he's wrong,
and he should be jailed.

And he should be punished.
- That isn't a lot of comfort--

- Well--

- --to the people
that he's attacking.

- Yeah, so you're suggesting
that we should just abandon

every effort
to protect children,

every effort to
protect marriage because people

will use those laws for wrong.

- Everyone agrees
with protecting children.

Why not?

But why does
that have to be at the expense

of a group,
who have absolutely nothing

to do with harming children?

There are consequences
to the law that you support.

Do you accept that?

- We-- it's not our law.

And we--

- Well, that just
sounds like you're walking

away from the consequences.

It's one
that you've encouraged.

It's one that you've applauded.
- We did not encourage.

We didn't lobby.
- And now you're walking away.

- We didn't lobby.

- Yes, you've spoken out in
front of it in favor of it.

You said
that otherwise, it would

imperil children, their
physical and moral health.

- After it was
passed, we attempted

to clarify and
defend the provisions

that protected children.

- But do you still support it?

Because it's led to
the persecution of LGBT.

- We support
the protection of children.

- Do you accept
any responsibility

for the consequences
of some of this legislation?

- We don't--
we have no responsibility

for the legislation.

We affirm and celebrate
beauty, goodness, and truth,

and that's what
families are about.

- We've been tracking the
activity of the World Congress

Of Families network across
Russia and into Slovakia.

Next, our investigation
takes us

to Africa, where in Uganda,
associates of the World

Congress of
Families have actually

helped draft
anti-gay legislation

with terrible consequences.

[upbeat music]

[tense music]

- We must stand for
the laws that we have

placed in the courts,
that homosexuality is wrong,

and it's evil.

- Yes!

- And it is also illegal!

[all shouting]

- We are saying
no to homosexuality.

- In Uganda,
homosexuality has been against

the law since the 1950s.

But over
the last decade, attempts

have been made to strengthen
anti-gay legislation supported

by American Christian
evangelists

associated with the
World Congress of Families.

American
evangelist Pastor Scott

Lively was
first invited to Uganda

on a speaking tour in 2002.

- Homosexuality does
not benefit the society.

It harms
the people that engage in.

It harm-- it harms--

- Lively has been
tied to the World Congress

of Families for many years.

He attended a World Congress
of Families planning meeting

in Moscow in October 2013.

He has featured on their
website's monthly newsletter,

where he was
thanked for his contribution

to pro-family causes.

And in 2007,

he appeared as a guest speaker
at the official

World Congress of
Families' networking event.

Here he is
speaking in Uganda in 2009.

- The gay movement is an evil
institution that's goal--

the goal of the gay
movement is to defeat

the marriage-based
society and replace it

with a culture
of sexual promiscuity

in which there's no
restrictions on sexual conduct.

- Lively then makes
a link between homosexuality

and pedophilia.

- Often these are people
that were molested themselves.

And they're turning
it around, and they're

looking for other
people to be able to prey upon

and that they see a child
that's from a broken home,

it's like they have a flashing
neon sign over their head.

That child is so
vulnerable to a man--

a 14-year-old boy for a man to
come along and say, you know,

hey, I care about you.

Now usually if I'm in
the U.S. and I bring this up

in an audience,
and all of a sudden,

there's screams from how
dare you say that homosexuality

and pedophilia are equated.

Well, they are equated.

- The strategy
thrives on the vilification

of LGBTQ people as
fundamental threats to society.

It's a preposterous claim.

But in an attempt
to make it credible,

they will tell
the big lie and do repeatedly

by presenting the community
as threats to children,

sexual predators,
as threats to public health,

responsible for HIV.

His defamatory statements
really know no bounds.

This is somebody who
has shown himself

willing to say anything

in order to
engender fear, loathing,

and hatred towards gay people.

And that's the role he plays.

- Homosexuality does
not benefit the society.

It harms
the people that engage it.

It harms-- it harms
the society that embraces it.

Now that said,
so we need public policy that

discourages homosexuality.

- Human rights specialist
Jonathan Cooper has been

monitoring the effects
of anti-gay laws throughout

he world, and he worries
about the activities

of Scott Lively.

- The way in which Scott Lively

has encouraged hostility

against the gay
and lesbian community

and has targeted the gay and
lesbian community in what he's

been saying in Uganda, it's
not respectful of international

human rights law.

It's not
respectful of that recognition

that human rights law
applies to everybody, including

the gay and lesbian community.

He's entitled to express his
opinion,

and he's entitled to--

to express his disdain for
the gay and lesbian community.

But he can't
do it in such a way

that promotes
hatred and violence

against that community.

- Scott Lively also addressed
the Ugandan parliament.

He was then sent a copy
of draft legislation, which

included provision
to make homosexual acts

punishable by life
imprisonment in some cases

and to make it a crime
punishable by prison

not to report
people for being gay.

He wrote back to
the Ugandan parliament,

advising them on how to
take the legislation forward.

The Ugandan Anti-Homosexual
Act was finally

passed by
parliament in December 2013.

[all shouting]

In the weeks and
months that followed,

local activist group SMUG,
Sexual Minorities Uganda,

received reports
of a sharp increase

in homophobic attacks.

This footage, posted
on the internet three days

after the bill was passed, is
reportedly of a man in Uganda

being lynched and
stoned for being gay.

A large crowd
stands by and watches

the man's brutal beating.

It's not known if he survived.

The United Nations
has published

two reports
looking at the effects

of anti-gay legislation.

The most recent
one concluded that there

is a strong connection between
discrimination in the law

and incitement to violence.

- Basically what
criminalization does and what

these measures that have
been proposed by the sort

of the so-called
pro-family lobby,

what they do is
that they-- they make the gay

and lesbian community outlaws.

They are literally outlaws.

They are outside
the protection of the law

under all circumstances.

With these measures,
you get a tax on the gay

and lesbian community.

You get extortion.

You get arbitrary detention.

You get all sorts of violence.

People being made
homeless, people being fired,

generally creating this
dysfunctional society,

which is what
they've managed to do.

[tense music]

- Just days after
the bill was passed,

Jackson Mocasa
and his partner, Kim,

were targeted for being gay.

It began when an angry mob
came for them

while they slept.

- Jackson and Kim
managed to flee the mob

but were then
stopped by police and arrested

for being homosexual.

Whilst in custody,
their persecution continued.

- Jackson and Kim were charged
with engaging in sex acts

against the order of nature.

Their case was
eventually dismissed

due to lack of evidence.

As a direct consequence
of the anti-gay law,

Jackson and Kim
are now jobless,

have no permanent home,

and have become
social pariahs.

- Uganda's new
anti-gay law has since been

annulled on a technicality.

But it's
recently been announced

that the bill is to be
reintroduced to parliament.

[tense music]

Scott Lively is currently
facing civil action in America

for crimes against
humanity in relation

to his activities in Uganda.

The judge says
he has a case to answer.

- There is no question
as to Scott Lively's influence

and culpability
for the legislation

that was introduced in Uganda.

Scott Lively's
influence led to a kind

of public panic, a social
panic about homosexuality.

We saw an escalation
in death threats.

We saw mob violence
against people who are

LGBTI or perceived to be so.

- Scott Lively masterminds
his international campaigns

from his base
in Massachusetts,

a coffee house that
also doubles as his church.

British journalist Liz MacKean
arranged to interview him

there
in order to challenge him

about his activities
in Africa.

Lively would only agree
to be interviewed

on the condition

that we didn't
edit his answers.

- Liz MacKean.

- Welcome to
Holy Grounds Coffee House.

- Thank you very
much for asking us.

- Reports from the
United Nations,

Amnesty International,

and SMUG,
Sexual Minorities Uganda,

all found there to be
a strong connection between

anti-gay legislation
and a rise

in persecution of LGBT people.

Would Scott Lively
accept any role in that?

- In Uganda,
there's been a rise

in homophobic
attacks since the enactment

of the Anti-Homosexuality Act.

Does that concern you?

- Well, I haven't
seen the proof of that.

- Well, the proof
has come in a study

from SMUG, an activist
group that you know.

- Oh, you mean the homosexual
activist movement

itself is testifying to--

to things that advance
its own political objectives?

- Amnesty International,
the Human Rights Watch,

they've both made studies.

- These are all
groups that are very,

very strongly dedicated
to the LGBT political goals.

- The UN itself--

this is from 2011--

there's a strong connection
between discrimination in law

and practice
and incitement to violence

in the name of
religion and violence itself.

- I don't accept
the authority of the entities

that you're citing.

SMUG, Sexual Minorities Uganda,

is a dishonest advocacy
organization

for LGBT rights.

The Human Rights watch, also.

Amnesty International has--
has taken sides on this issue.

They are not impartial.

Even the UN is not
impartial on this issue.

- So all these
internationally recognized

organizations, you won't
accept their findings?

- Not on this particular issue.

Now if they want to talk about
farming in Ghana or something

like that,
then I will listen to them,

but not on this social issue.

- So you don't see any
connection between the sort

of language that you've
used about homosexuals

and a climate in which they're
more subject to attacks?

- Absolutely not.

I'm gonna get some water.

This coffee is
actually not working to--

I have a dry mouth.

- It wasn't
surprising that Lively refused

to accept
responsibility for the rise

in attacks on gays in Uganda.

But it was
unexpected that he would

reject the basic
premise of the international

evidence altogether.

Liz MacKean then
challenges him

on the inflammatory language

he uses about
homosexuals and in particular,

his linking
them with pedophilia.

- Let's get down to
the specific details.

What specifically
am I saying that you

think is inflaming people
to go out and bash homosexuals?

- I think an overlap between
homosexuality and pedophilia

is highly inflammatory.

- Really?

And that just the fact that--

- Designed to criticize.

Yes, designed to
demonize a section.

- Just-- just simply
saying that there is a-- that

there's an overlap between
homosexuality and pedophilia,

that that's enough to cause,
to-- to make me responsible

for someone else
who goes out and-- and beats

up a homosexual?

- Do you see no connection at
all between what you might say

and how some people might
then feel they can behave?

- What I see is
your failure to be able

to-- to-- to analyze
this topic the way you

would analyze any other topic.

- Homosexuality surely
has no more of an overlap

with pedophilia
than does heterosexuality.

- Well, it does.

It does. Male--

- Based on what?

- Based on
observation, based on history.

- Ah, so based on
your observation and your view

of history,
you're making what is

a very serious allegation
against an entire community

of people.

- No, not against
an entire community of people.

- Yes, it is, homosexuality.

- No, I'm talking about a--

a subcategory of male
homosexuals, very common.

- Lively didn't accept
any responsibility

for the increase
in violence against gays.

And he went further,
suggesting, in fact,

that homosexuals
actually need protecting

from their own behavior.

- If you follow
God's standard, if you stay

abstinent until
marriage, if you stay

faithful within
marriage, you're never

gonna get those diseases.

You are never
going to face the kind

of consequences that come from
living with sexual promiscuity.

And when someone is sitting
on a platform with me, who

is taking the position
that there shouldn't be

any restraint, there
shouldn't be any regulation

of sexual conduct
in the public interest,

that person is--
is in-- in essence,

advocating mass murder.

Look at how many people
who have been killed by AIDS.

Look-- think of
what-- think of--

let's-- just wait.

Just wait one second.

How many people
have died because--

because
we didn't take a position

when the AIDS epidemic emerged
that discouraged anal sex?

If we, as a society, had
just-- had just gone full-court

press and say, don't engage--

heterosexual or homosexual,
don't engage in this behavior

because of its risks that
those-- most of those people

probably would
not be dead today.

But instead, we followed
the gay political agenda,

who wanted no restriction
on any sexual conduct,

and now we're reaping
the consequences for it.

- And you're
likening it to mass murder?

- It is mass murder.

[tense music]

- The World Congress of
Families and its associated

organizations
have now established

links in more than 80
countries across the globe.

[tense music]

- Marriage is the union
of one man and one woman.

- They say they are defending
the traditional family.

But we've discovered that the
laws that protect some

have eroded
the rights of others.

- Homosexuality is
wrong, and it's evil.

- And for
the individuals we have met,

the world is now
a much more fearful place.

[tense music]