All language subtitles for I.Believe.In.Miracles.2015.1080p.BluRay.x264-GHOULS

Good evening. Tonight, the football world
was stunned by the shock news

that after only seven weeks in the job,
Brian Clough has been sacked

as manager of Leeds United.

It's been claimed that the footballers

passed a vote of no confidence
in him and certainly today,

the board took the shock decision
that Clough must go.

We're talking not only
to Brian Clough himself,

but also to the man that he succeeded

as manager of Britain's most successful
football team,

to Don Revie, the England manager,
but Brian Clough first of all.

Brian, what's your reaction to being booted
out in this fashion?

Oh, it's a very sad reaction.

Obviously, to be sacked
as you profoundly put it,

and the only way you could put it,
it's a very sad one.

It's a very sad one for me personally,

and I also believe a very sad one
from Leeds Football Club's angle

and from the Leeds city.

You see Brian, when you talk
about coming to take the Leeds job

and you had all these things
and all these worries

about stepping in my shoes
and one thing and another.

- Which I had.
- Yes, you had.

But why, why did you come
from Brighton to Leeds to take it over

when you'd criticised them so much and
said, "We should be in the second division

"for this and we should do this
and we should do that."

Why did you take the job?

Well, because I thought it was the best
job in the country.

Of course it was the
best job in the country.

I was taking over the league champions.

Yeah, you were taking over
the league champions.

You were taking over the best bunch
of players that you've ever seen...

Well, I didn't know about the players, Don.

You didn't know?

'Cause I, I didn't know them
intimate like you do.

But I know you were the league champions
and I was taking over the league champions.

I wanted to have a crack
at the European Cup this year.

- Yes.
- I think it was near and dear

- to your heart also.
- Yeah, yes.

Erm... I wanted to win it.

I wanted to do something you hadn't done.

- I believe there's just a fraction, Don...
- Well...

...a fraction. I don't know this
'cause I've not spoken to you,

but I believe it's a fraction
whether you took the England job

or had another shot at the European Cup.

That is totally true, 'cause I was
so involved with the players

- and everybody at Elland Road.
- Good lad.

Now I wanted to do that,

and I want to do it better than you.

What's gonna happen now to Brian Clough?

Well, a million things are gonna
happen to Brian Clough.

Well, aren't you gonna be in a very
difficult situation?

'Cause after the argument with Derby,
you left Brighton under a cloud,

and now this with Leeds,

who's gonna touch you with
a barge pole, as it were?

We were all wondering
who the next manager was gonna be

and it turned out it was, er, Mr Clough.

I've known a few days, Trevor.

Er, and it's taken a few days
to sort the problems out

and for me to decide whether I wanted
to come back into football.

We had one thing in common,
of course, we both want success.

The committee wants success and I want
success for Nottingham Forest.

Let's pause
for a moment and look

at some of Nottingham's early history.

Nottingham's association with Robin Hood,

the lace trade,
Nottingham Castle, the Major Oak,

DH Lawrence, Raleigh Industries...

Nottingham is, in fact, ideally situated.

The M1 Motorway passes
the city directly to the west

and the East Midlands Airport is only
15 miles away from the city.

Nottingham is fortunate in having three,
locally based breweries,

carefully selected shops,
water clock and fountains.

Nottingham Forest Football Club,
which plays at the City Ground,

was established in 1865 and is
the third oldest football league club.

Good morning, it's 7 o'clock.

This is morning report
from BBC Radio, Nottingham...

It was a mid-table, second division team.

It was my local club.
My parents didn't want me to leave home,

so they wanted me to get hitched up with
a local club and I came down to Forest.

It was in turmoil at the
time, I must admit.

We must have had about
three or four managers in that period.

And we were, you know,
languishing in the, what was called

the second division at that time,
Championship as it's known now.

And no real sign as if we're
actually going to get back up again.

Clough was the man.
They'd seen what he'd done

down the road at Derby, you know,
performed miracles,

so they were just wondering whether he
could repeat that at Nottingham Forest.

I heard all the way in America,

I heard all the way in Indonesia
that this fella talks too much.

They say he's another Muhammad Ali.
There's just one Muhammad Ali.

And I want you to know, whoever you are,
you're not a fighter

and you don't take my job. I'm the talker,
now Clough, I've had enough. Stop it.

Well are you gonna stop it?

No, I want to fight him.

We would have been in complete awe
of him coming into that dressing room.

I know celebrity status is easily
obtained these days, but he was,

he was a major celebrity. He was on
Parkinson nearly every other week.

To some he's an arrogant loudmouth
who ought to be put in his place.

To other's he someone
who simply speaks his mind

and makes more sense
than the rest of them put together.

But whatever people say about him, no
one's ever yet accused him of being dull.

Ladies and gentlemen, Brian Clough.

You took 10,000 fans away
from Forest when you took over at Derby.

Can you bring them back again to Forest?

Well, I would hope to get a few back.

Well, it changed overnight the moment
Brian actually came to the club.

Obviously,
when Clough's got the job

and people look at him and say, "Well what
can he do? Who's he gonna bring in?"

But, you know, Ian Bowyer,
Tony Woodcock, Martin O'Neill,

John Robertson, Viv Anderson.

Five players there that are gonna go on to
win European Cups, that are already there.

...fighting to get it back.
Bowyer!

And it's three.
Remarkable goal...

They've got ability,

but they're not quite sure
how to bring it out in themselves.

Oh, I'll never forget
the first time I ever seen him.

It was in the dressing room. It was
a sort of square dressing room with, er,

one door there and one door
further on, on the outside,

and I was sitting facing both doors.

The door burst open, he walked in,
"I'm the new manager of Nottingham Forest."

It was like
a whirlwind coming in.

And he looked around and just as he was
about to leave, and he said, er,

"I'll be putting a squad up.
Is young O'Neill here?"

And I was, "Yeah, I'm here."
He said, er, "You're coming with us, son."

He was just straight with people.
Er, he expected you to be straight back.

I said, "I wanna play centre forward."

He said, "What are you gonna do there?"

I said, "I'm gonna score goals."
He says, "Good answer, young man."

Is there any money
available here at Forest for new players?

I've not gone into that, er, into that
aspect of the club with the chairman.

I'm certain that, you know,
if I can produce a player

to the committee that they think
will do Forest some good,

I'm certain there'll be money available,
but I haven't discussed it with them.

I must admit, we wouldn't have been too
surprised to find that, er,

that John O'Hare and John McGovern
would be coming.

I met Brian Clough at
the Post House at Sandy Acre

and the negotiations
over the contract lasted 10 seconds.

When he came in, Nottingham Forest,
you know, I'd known him for so long,

he obviously thought
I had something as a player.

So it really didn't take
that much thinking about.

It could have been any club, but I'm
working for the man himself, so,

suited me down to the ground.

A journalist from the
northeast who was a friend of his

rang him and said, "I hear you're
looking for a left back,

"do you know Frank Clark had a free?"

"Where are you
playing now?" he said.

"Man City Reserves." I said. "Well you'll
be better playing in my first team.

"I'll meet outside a league
town football ground."

So he said, "I'll be there, be
there in an hour." Put the phone down.

So, I arranged meet him
at a Scotch Corner hotel.

My car broke down on the way.

So it's probably the only time
I was ever late to meet Brian,

but fortunately he waited,
and we, er, we managed to get it sorted.

He signed me for 29,000,
'cause he wouldn't pay 30.

He said, "You should be paying me."

"To get away from Leeds United."

There has been talk
of Peter Taylor leaving Brighton

and joining you here at Forest.
Is this pure speculation?

When Peter Taylor joined him, that's
when things really took off at Forest.

Clough had missed him for about
the 18 months that he'd been there.

He was back. He'd got his spark back. He
was rejuvenated. He was ready to go again.

There was almost like
a Renaissance with him.

He really needed Peter Taylor.

On their own, maybe good
at what they do, but, you know,

unbeatable when they're together.

You know, there was good cop and bad cop.

You never know which one's
gonna be which one.

Peter took me to task really and, er, if it
hadn't been for him I think at that stage,

then I don't know if I'd
ever come through it.

When I first went there, John was
a journeyman midfield player going nowhere.

I thought his attitude was terrible.

I was a bit of a, erm, as Brian Clough
would probably call me, "A wastrel".

I don't think I was that bad but...

You know I said I'm a sulker.

But I may well have learned
that from John in the first place.

Well, he was a moaner.
A real moaner.

They really saw in John's attitude,
I think they frightened him really.

I took notice of it. When Pete said
to me, "But we think you can play."

Turns... Oh, it's great!
And a superb goal! John Robertson!

What a fantastic goal by John Robertson!

Three-two, Nottingham Forest.
Seventeen minutes into the second half.

Oh, you won't see much better than that.

What is it?

I believe it's just
the selection and buying of good players

and the ability to manage them and to
put them together etcetera, etcetera.

I think that's what football's
about throughout the world.

It was a building process that only really
took off when Peter Taylor got there,

because he knew exactly who to sign that
would improve the squad we already had.

"You know that, that fella Clough at
Nottingham Forest,

"he, wants you go up there." I said, "Why?

"What division are they in?"

I can remember Larry coming in.

Well, Larry's my mate still,

but he was he, he was
a big time Charlie lad.

He'd been at Liverpool,
so he'd been a big player.

Been around the scene
and this was big for us.

When I was signing I was still hesitant.
He said, "Wait a minute," he said,

"Have you got all your
equipment in your house?

"Have you like washing machines, dryers,
the lot?" I said, "As it happens,

"My wife's washing machine has broken."

"Leave that to me son."

Two blokes turn up in overalls
carrying a washing machine.

I thought, "Oh, good on him."

Anyway, the following morning,
I went up to Nottingham training

and these two lovely women,
the laundry women...

"Are you that Larry Lloyd?"
I went "Yeah." They said,

"You've nicked our washing machine!"

I remember we played away
at Bolton in the second division

and we were doing okay

and sat round a table with
John Robertson, Larry and somebody else...

And I remember saying, "Larry so what
do you think then? What do you think?"

They were hanging on to every word.

And I could remember Larry
drawing on this cigar and saying...

"Not a bad little club
you've got here, boys."

So me, Martin and Tony
looked at each other and thought, "Mmm...

"Where the hell has he come?"

I'd have to say that Lloyd
was the first major signing

and, erm, and he would
probably agree with that.

Things were starting to change and, er,

there'd been quite a few players
who have left the club now.

And then these great names were coming in

so you obviously wanted to be a part of it.

It did change from being, "Not a bad
little club" to being, you know, er,

a good club.

Right with Roy
and then we got better.

These players are improving as well.
We're getting better.

We signed somebody
else with a bit of quality, we get better.

He used to always have this,
this mantra of three things, you work hard

and if you work hard
you have a chance of playing well.

If you play well then you'll enjoy it.
And that was it.

It was just something
that clicked and moved together and, er,

yeah we must have had some sort of talent

and we must have had some sort of
desire to actually make it to the top.

Our last match today brings together
Nottingham Forest being taken, well,

forward now, by that well known combination
of Brian Clough and Peter Taylor.

And it's there!
A fine goal by Chapman.

We've got into a promotion place,
but there's still a game left to play.

We were on the plane to Majorca again.

We were halfway to Spain,
and I'd gone on this trip

because Sammy Chapman didn't like flying.

And I can remember the,
the captain or the pilot saying...

"We've got Nottingham Forest in
and hopefully the results are gonna go well

"for them tonight and hopefully
they'll be promoted."

I think Wolves had to go
to Bolton and win the match.

It's got Hibbett through...

The pilot announced it,
while we were in the air.

And Wolves won and we got promoted.

That means all the guys on the plane

they have now been
promoted to, erm, the first division.

You can imagine you know,
the euphoria that went on that plane.

I mean, it wasn't turbulence. It was us
jumping around on the plane

I think, you know, celebrating that fact.

It doesn't matter which way you get there.
Get there any way you can.

It was an absolutely fantastic time.

They sneaked in really.

But once that had happened
then we prepared for the first division.

And who did he sign, but probably the
best goalie in the world, Peter Shilton,

a hooligan from Birmingham
called Kenny Burns

and a little, a little midfield
nasty man called Archie Gemmill.

Gemmill...
Good play by Gemmill. And again!

Three-one!

A brilliant individual goal
by this hard little professional.

The miracle is beginning to happen.

He said, "Well, you'll
be winning another title.

"You'll be winning a cup."
Blah, blah, blah.

You add quality to quality
that's already there, you can't fail.

And you're always welcoming players of
quality into your squad.

He didn't have to sell Nottingham Forest,
you know, it was him.

I was on holiday in Menorca with, er,

first wife.

He says, "Well, give us a call
when you get back in to England."

So, I gave him a call right away,

saying we met up and he signed me, really.

As he's actually
walked in the dressing room

before he's been introduced to the players.

I think Ian Bowyer went,
"Don't hit me, Kenny!"

Oh, that was a bad one
by Burns and the sparks starts to fly.

He wasn't frightened of a player's
reputation. Burnsy came with an iffy rep...

I did. But that didn't worry him.

He knew that he could get us playing
how he wanted us to play.

Having got an opinion from Peter Taylor

that the lad could play football,
then it was up to me to do my job.

Kenny had played mainly
as a striker in Birmingham

and he had a terrible reputation

as being a bit of a thug
and a difficult player to handle.

How much does he want
to be seen as a respectable guy

in everybody's eyes do you think?

As much as you do, Brian.

You know, when he signed
for Forest, I think we were all thinking,

"Well who's gonna lose their place
up front?" You know. "Who, who..."

We obviously thought, "We've signed
another striker."

Jimmy Gordon, who's the trainer then,
he said, "Right, this lot put the bibs on."

He says, "Middleton, Anderson,
Barrett, McGovern, Lloyd, Burns,

"O'Neill, Bowyer, Withe,
Woodcock, Robertson."

Points the finger at Burnsy. Said, "You,

"you're gonna play
at the back next to the big head."

Said, "Wow."

I thought by big head he meant me.

Turned out that then I believe, I know
it's blowing our own trumpet here,

but I believe Kenny Burns
and myself were as effective as

any central defensive partnership
in the land and better than most.

Shilts was the best goalkeeper
I ever played with

and I think at the time he was probably
the best goalkeeper in the world.

Went down to City Ground
at Nottingham to discuss terms.

I had a couple of, what I call financial
advisors, agents they are these days.

And as they opened the door, went to
walk in with their briefcases etcetera,

they went sprawling across the room.
Papers flying everywhere

and I looked down and Clough
is sat on the floor

tripping them up with his squash racket.

I thought, "These negotiations aren't
gonna go very well."

Him and Peter were always,
always thinking and plotting,

"How can we gain an edge somewhere?
How can we get a bit more from him.

"How can we do this?"

He was fantastic at man management.

He knew that I craved praise.

So he knew that I would strive
and I would play better, obviously,

to get that pat on the back.

One of Cloughy's favourites,
when you're doing particularly well,

it was like that sign.
You know, he used to go.

Well, it all started about the third to
fourth game in pre-season training.

Tackles started flying in.
And the other lad going down the touchline

and I went over and I've hit him.
Right through the fence he went.

Brian Clough shouted, "Kenneth!"

It was only him and my mum
that used to call me Kenneth.

And he just turned round, and I thought,
"Oh, no," and he went...

And that's, that's annoyed
big Larry to this day.

Never ever got one of those
and it really says, "You're his favourite."

Can anyone love Burnsy? But there you go.

You know Cloughy loved him. "Kenneth."

Kenneth is no different from anybody else.

"Kenneth!"

"Give me that sign, will you?"
But he never did.

...and a shot here from Lloyd!

Players thrived
at what he was doing,

because it was always
that competitive edge.

It was never mundane.

How would you describe
the gift that you have got

of getting players
to perform above themselves?

Erm, gift's a very, very strong word
and I don't think that I get them

to perform above themselves.
I think we have 15 talented players.

He was the most charismatic man
I've ever met in my life.

You knew if he walked in a room, you knew
he was there, even if you didn't see him,

you knew somebody special
had walked in there.

You know how many letters
I've had in four days from MP's? Six.

You know what they want?

They want something.

They don't wanna give anything,
they just want something.

You talk about managers being
years ahead of their time.

There's no question that he was.

If you ask any player who's the
best manager? There's only one.

He's got a charisma and a magic
that nobody else in the game

seems to have at the moment.

He trusted you on the pitch.

He picked the best 11,
once you've crossed that white line,

it was always one of his sayings, "You're
fit and it's down to you. I trust you."

We're all together when we go
over that white line. Totally united.

You were only ever under
one pressure when Brian was the manager.

If you gave your lot then that was it.

He could live with people
mis-controlling the ball.

He could live with people
shooting at goal and missing the target.

He could handle all that.

He couldn't live with you
not giving your lot.

You would actually die for your teammate

in that 90 minutes and that's what
winning teams are all about.

If there isn't the commitment, no amount
of ability will guarantee the result.

But we had both in abundance.

So, for Nottingham Forest,
it's back to the main task

of winning the first
division championship...

I can remember running out
and it being so loud with Forest supporters

and I kept thinking,
"Wow! This, we've hit the big time here."

And then a couple of minutes later,
Everton came out

and it was really such an impact

that you felt you had to sort of duck down,
you know, with the noise.

We got out and played
and the first 20 minutes,

I was breathing through my...

You know, we're just up there
and everybody thinks

'cause you've just came up
you're gonna get turned over.

The pace was ferocious. I honestly
thought this is really too much.

But then we scored,
Peter Withe got a goal.

The game changed completely.

And it just seemed, everything
seemed to calm down and we just took over

and we played unbelievably well.
Won the game three-one.

And what a feeling that was,
so we're off and running

away from home. We've won up at Everton.

And somebody's
knocking on the dressing room door.

"Come in. Delighted to see you."

So, I was thinking, "Who's this?"
And it was Bill Shankly.

The former Liverpool manager.

And he said, "Bill, I'm just giving
them a rollocking,

"telling them how poor they were,
but I think you should do it."

"You've won your first game, but the first
division's a marathon, not a sprint."

Yeah, we talk about Cloughy
and Cloughy's era, there was no plan.

There's never been a plan, you know?

He'd come in before the game and say, "This
is the ball, you pass it to a teammate."

"You, you head the ball, you kick the
ball, and if you have time with the ball

"at your feet give it to someone
who can play."

"You get the football, and you give it
that little fat bastard on the wing."

"Give it to John Robertson."

"He can play."

"...you can't, so you give it him."

We reduce things perhaps
to a little bit of simplicity

where other managers might,
you know, find them complex.

I don't know whether it's a gift
or if I have a gift or anything.

It's very straightforward to me.

He was a genius
as far as simplicity was concerned.

In the fact that he communicated
what he wanted brilliantly.

And he spoke about the game
being simple. Simplicity.

You can't play well unless
you have the foot... You know,

that little football that we play with.

They had it more than we did
and on our pitch that's sacrilege.

"If they are going to run
the show on my pitch," he said,

"I'm going to fall out
with you and you and you."

I says, "Boss, what are we
going to do about free kicks?"

He says, "Shoot".

"Ah, right. What about
indirect free kicks?"

He says, "Fucking put the ball to the side
and shoot." And that was it.

We had to get changed at the City
Ground and then jog down the Trent

to a little bit of waste
ground down by Boots.

Nowadays I don't think you could
actually call it training,

playing five-a-side's or playing
mount through the legs.

You name it, very, very basic stuff.

You'd have a player on your back,
piggy back and run through the nettles

by the side of the Trent,
you know, the stinging nettles.

"I want a straight path round that tree
and back. No cutting corners.

"Get through the nettles and come back.

"Get over that wall, out of sight,
I don't wanna see you."

Grown men scrambling up into
the directors box and hiding.

And hiding behind somewhere
so you couldn't see them

and they're looking at each other and
thinking, "What are we doing here? Yeah?"

You know, some days
we'd come in like you wouldn't even train.

We'd just go for a walk along the river
or, see it was they just didn't know.

The modern day footballer
don't know what it's like.

Garry Birtles used to say,
"I'm not training today, lads,

"I'm playing squash with the gaffer, "

and it was nearly every day.

What are you laughing at?

- That's true, he was my squash partner.
- Yeah? Yeah?

Yeah.

He finished at 12 o'clock,
we were in the wine bar at 12 o'clock,

he said, "Col, do you want a drink?"

I said, "Well I'm hopefully
playing this afternoon, boss."

"Yeah you are playing, but if it makes you
play better, have a drink."

We all went round to the caf�.
"Can we have 14 chip cobs."

Diets? God's truth.
Our diet would have been shot dead.

We didn't over train.

He gave us as much days off as,
as we did training.

And he was right. He believed in rest.

"I don't wanna see anybody
in here till Thursday."

Frank's getting on, he's about I don't know
48 or something at the time.

And you know he just got out, put his
tracksuit bottoms, his trainers on

and he just goes
for a little jog, just to loosen up.

Nothing strenuous or not too far, but
something just to keep myself ticking on.

And Cloughy found out about it.

I've gone into the ground one day and he got
hold of me and he went absolutely berserk.

He said, "When I say
you have a rest, you have a rest.

"If I find out you've been training on your
day off again," he said, "I'll fine you."

And I tried to argue with him,
but lost the argument, obviously.

But you look at Brian Clough and his
methods there it's,

if you have a couple of
days off work, legit.

You know, you come into work
and you've got a bounce in your step.

Over the next two seasons, my
first two seasons here, and I played 108

consecutive games.
Never missed a game for two seasons.

And at the end of the second season
he called me in to see him,

and he said, "Well, who
was right now, then?"

And I looked at him and I thought,
"What's he talking about here, like?"

And that's what he was talking about from
two years ago. He'd never forgotten it.

I have to say, generally speaking,
the results were so good,

whatever he was trying, whatever he was
doing was very successful.

Now, Brian Clough said
in midweek that every side

had to be built from defence
and a lot of your stuff

had been built at the back four
and the goalkeeper.

Do you subscribe to that entirely, do you?

Oh, definitely. You know, the back four
you know, from Shilts through Kenny Burns,

Viv Anderson, Colin Barrett, Dave Needham.

No, they're absolutely fantastic and even
with the successful days at Derby,

it was built on a back four, a good back
four, that's not gonna give away goals.

I was at home with the wife
and she who's making a Christmas cake

and the phone rang
and she answered the phone,

and, erm, "It's Brian Clough."

"Dave, could you come over and meet me
at the Italian restaurant on Trent Bridge?"

"Yes, sir, yeah course I can."
Yeah, so off I went

and signed for him there and then.
It was, I just couldn't believe it.

I think the first half of that season
was some of the best football,

well, certainly, I've ever played in.

Well, whether we really, really believed
we could win the league at that stage,

I very much doubt it.

My first game was
Manchester United away at Old Trafford.

Coming in, first game panicking like hell.

We knew that we were playing well, but this
was gonna be a major test at Old Trafford.

And everybody thought that this would be
our comeuppance like,

because we were the upstarts.

I can remember Ian Bowyer actually,
"If you wanna do it anywhere,

"this is the place to do it."

It just happened, we were a good side.

Woodcock chasing... Looking
so... Oh, it's so lucky and unlucky!

Came off the unlucky Brian Greenhoff.

Robertson. Well, that could be awkward,

and it's well thumped in by Woodcock.

If you'd have tried to pick the man of
the match out of the Nottingham Forest team

you'd have struggled that day,
because we were flying.

We absolutely dominated them,

and I thought, "Oh, Christ, what have I
come to here? This is fantastic."

Comes to meet him
and it's going to be three, and it is.

Here's Gemmill...

Look at that, Gemmill forward,
Clarke again a run in on the keeper

and this time number four.

Manchester United buried
in their own back yard,

by a team that has the hallmark
of its creator, Brian Clough.

To go there and beat them four-nil on
their own patch and could have been eight.

Hold on here, we could be onto something.

Nottingham Forest
have given the best display

by a team that I've had
the privilege of seeing this season.

You know, they're not just winning,
they're hammering teams, you know?

And playing great football.
And I said, "You'll win the league.

"I'll tell you ways of playing
and destroying teams."

I think the way
we've played this season, as I said,

you know, football's a game of habits.
If we keep on doing the right things

then there is no way that we won't
win something this season.

Ah, that's Gemmill,
he really stole that.

O'Hare...

Momentum, that's the word,
you know?

The team just gained its momentum.

Kept on winning. The critics kept
on saying, "It can't last.

"It won't last, they'll fall away."

Is there a feeling that even
yet the season could blow up in your faces?

Media guys, journalists,
were always talking about the Forest bubble

and he used to remind us of it, you know?
He used to say,

"Is the bubble gonna burst this week?"

And it was, it was
all that he needed to say, really.

There was an element
of us against the media,

because we thought
we were a little provincial club.

We didn't quite get the rewards
or the credit that, er,

possibly our style of football
and our results deserved, so, yeah.

Yeah, people always
said that about us, you know?

That the bubble's gonna burst.

We've had that thrown at us right
through our career.

You know, we've been together now 12 years.

I think that in itself is an incentive
for us to do well.

We just go out to win a match
and we do it to the best of our ability.

We go out to entertain the public.
We go out to pack football grounds.

We go out to make you and I want
to come to football matches.

We try to entertain and
you never know, John,

you and your profession just might
recognise that we are a good side.

Well, let's have our last action now
and we catch up with

the first division leaders
Nottingham Forest.

What's the attitude
in the dressing room

towards the sort of press you're getting?
Do you, do you think you're now being

genuinely recognised
as the sort of quality side you are?

Well, I don't think so, I don't think
Britain realises how good we are.

But I'm sure come the end
of the season when we win it,

I think people will have,
people have to give us recognition then.

The team was playing so well that we
actually got to the League Cup Final

and I was cup tied and Chris Woods
played in it.

I don't think it's ever an
advantage to be playing Liverpool at all,

'cause I think they are the most
difficult side to play in a cup final.

Brian Clough has held
everybody up. That's...

Now what's that all about?

He's getting the Forest players to wave to the
Forest crowd. That's never happened before

where the manager has held up
the walking on ceremony.

But that, after all, is Brian Clough.

The team that we had to beat was Liverpool.

And everybody loved Liverpool. You know.

They were the kind of yard
stick that you went by.

They were the team
that you wanted to emulate.

Chris Woods played in goal

and if it hadn't been for him,
we'd have been beaten seven-nil.

With all the other players around me it
was you know a really tremendous feeling.

Liverpool had a few chances
and missed and scuffed them

and we didn't really have an awful lot
as an attacking force that afternoon.

Maybe because we were
underdogs to start with

it helped us get a result
or two against them.

Then of course we went
to Old Trafford for the replay.

We were defending a corner and I was
actually on the edge of our box.

The ball got knocked out
to Tony Woodcock on the left

and I started on my run
from the edge of our box.

People say, "I must have
gotten a taxi to get there."

But I got there.

John O'Hare went hurtling through the
middle, about two yards outside the box.

Thompson trips him.

It was my only chance to get him.

It a foul, but I mean, people said,
"Oh, he dived, dived."

But I never, never dived.

Great dive into the box. Penalty. And Robbo
of course, as he did just stuck it away.

I had to kick him outside
the box. I know it sounds bad,

but any professional'd do it.
I brought him down outside the box.

Obvious penalty.
I think John would have stuck it in.

No, no one's doubting it, surely?

What was
John O'Hare's feeling about it?

Well, he said, "Certainly
inside, certainly."

Well, your cameras will catch it, surely?

Yeah, and I think they show
it outside. That's how it goes, eh?

It also shows we've got the cup.
That's the main thing.

And Kenny Burns takes the trophy

and who better to lift it to the Forest
fans on this night?

Burns and Clough a partnership
that may yet have a long way in football.

And may not have seen
by any means, the last of the silverware.

Probably about 20, 22 years later,

I was working for
Martin O'Neill at Leicester City.

I go up to Anfield to watch a game.
Do a match report,

and I pull up at the big car park
at Stanley Park.

So, I put my window down and says,
"Excuse me, John O'Hare, Leicester City."

His exact words were,
"Fuck off, we don't like you here."

But where were you
when he tripped you?

Ah, you know, I mean to me I thought it
was just, maybe just in the box you know.

What about
that one remaining point?

What's that, Brian?

Well, the one remaining point that
you need to win the championship.

That I hope we'll get tomorrow.

It's been a hell of a long season.
It's been a hell of a good one,

but we still want that point.
And we hope to get it tomorrow.

And we feel that football
hopes we'll get it tomorrow.

We've got another two or three games
to go I think, but we needed a point.

When we played Coventry,
the game when they actually won the title,

Shilton was magnificent.

You could have maybe had a thousand
shots at him, you wouldn't beat him.

I said before we kicked a ball, I
thought we'd qualify for Europe, no more.

And that would have been an achievement,
but having signed Shilton, I said then

that anything is possible.

I turned to the manager and said,
"Well done, boss, we've won it."

Shook his hand and he kind of went,
"Oh, yeah."

You know, almost nonchalantly as if, "Well,
yeah, okay we've won it, but you know,

"there's nothing to really celebrate."

When, you know, the supporters
are going absolutely berserk

on the terraces at Coventry, you know,
'cause we've won the league championship.

To win that over that length of time
was fantastic and also the way we did it.

It got to a stage,
if we didn't win at Coventry,

we would have probably
won it the next week,

and if we didn't win it the next week,

we were gonna win it the week after.
We just needed the point.

There's only one manager

who's won a championship
with two different clubs.

You are on the verge of doing that now.

Erm, is there much left for you to do
once you've done it do you think?

We played some, you know, fantastic stuff.

People say football's changed a lot. Yes,
it has. But the football that we played

and the speed it was played at,
were, were brilliant.

If we win the championship
this year, we would like to go on and do

you know, English football proud in the
European competition next year.

In this day and age it's like that.
Whoever got, who gets promoted now

go and winning it, it's, it'll never
be done. It will never be done again,

so it was quite unique and it was a quite
unique set of players we had at the time.

I've always said I'm, you know,
that's my position in the back four.

You know, just that
nobody else has believed me.

You know and the boss says, "Believe me."

I think plenty of people
believe you now, Kenny Burns.

We've won the League Cup,
we've won the league championship.

Erm, it's a unique double for the club.
I'm highly delighted

for every single person
concerned with the club.

We've done it how I would assume
everybody likes to do their job.

Nicely, honourably and well.

Plenty of positive things for the crowd
to cheer at Nottingham Forest yesterday,

as Brian Clough and Peter Taylor
walked out to receive

the first division championship trophy
before yesterday's game

against Birmingham City.
As Hugh Johns reports.

The football league championship
comes to Nottingham Forest.

A championship side put together by those
two men, Brian Clough and Peter Taylor.

A side that they both agree
has played with style.

There it is, that's what it's all about.

John McGovern, skipper.

A lot of people think that

one of the main reasons
for Nottingham Forest's success,

is the success that you've shown
on the field, John Robertson.

Again, a player that seems to have been
brought on by Brian Clough

and Peter Taylor's influence. Yes or no?

Well played, straight to, er,
John Robertson by the Ipswich defence...

And a goal!

Well, it's a beautiful
shot by John Robertson.

John Robertson was like Ryan Giggs
but with two good feet.

The most influential player
in Europe for about,

I would say maybe
three and a half years, four years.

John Robertson,
playing on the left for Real Madrid.

He will go down as one of the world's
greatest left-sided players. Without a doubt.

I think, you know, I think Robert
could have been Clough's secret son.

We've got a little fat guy
that will turn him inside out.

- John Robertson?
- Yeah.

Very talented, highly skilled,
unbelievable outside left.

He'll turn him inside out.

I know he liked me, but I loved him. I thank
the day he walked into the football club,

'cause I'd have never have
a career without him.

The biggest thing is they gave me
confidence of what, what I could do well

and didn't really bother so much as to about
what I couldn't do so well, you know?

They converted him
into a wide left player,

and encouraged him to do
what he was good at.

Robertson... Yes!

Robbo didn't believe how good he was,
I'll be honest with you.

He used to panic like hell. He used
to look at the team sheet every week.

We knew he was in.

You know,
we'd come in at half time

and very often you know,
Cloughy had to tweak it a little bit.

Things weren't going as we expected.
And then someone said,

"Well wait a minute, Rob... Robbo's in there."
So you look... In the bathroom, in the toilet.

So you look in there
and you see a plume of smoke.

Cloughy, "Ah leave him. He'll pick it up when
he gets on the pitch. He'll know what to do."

And then he used to
sit there having a cigarette.

Over 20 yards, John wouldn't
have beaten anybody, you know?

He wouldn't have beaten my father.

No pace whatsoever.
Couldn't tackle a good fish supper.

Couldn't tackle my Granny.

But, left foot,

right foot. Genius.

He could always beat people
without touching the ball.

When you see him, he just
goes past people that are, are quick.

And he'd just leave them dead.

He was that good.

The fulcrum of the team, you'd think
normally would be maybe centre midfield,

maybe centre back or whatever the case
may be, or centre forward.

The fulcrum of our side was outside left.
It went there.

It was, it was a terrific time,
just, you know, exciting times.

The people of Nottingham,
I'm sure they were better at their jobs.

Players who were the biggest
employer of people at that time,

I'm sure they, you know, Monday mornings
at Players were a lot happier

than they were five or six years previously,
so it affected everybody. Touched everybody.

One of the lads when I went back to
Man City said, "Oh, what a town that is, "

said, "Five girls to every guy."

Yeah, Nottingham was buzzing.
You know, I love the city.

You know, we had a team... In those
days that were, that were characters.

You know, and they'll, the lads didn't
mind going out for a drink.

We were sort of the only
team who got fined if we didn't go out

on a Friday night for a drink.
It was one of those sort of situations.

It was a great spirit
and camaraderie about the players.

I know that that's always talked about.
Everywhere you go, people who,

they win a game or two,
people say there's a great spirit.

There was a great spirit.

We weren't just winning a game or two,
we were winning loads of games.

And we were winning big
trophies and we were beating everybody.

The beauty about this
football team was that these boys,

we were a close-knit family in as much as,

if somebody who is out on a birthday,
we all went out on the birthday.

If somebody was wetting the baby's head,
we all went out wetting the baby's head.

It certainly wasn't work.
I don't think any footballer

should ever say he's got to go to work,
because, you know, he needs educating.

Tell him to come and see me.

We just had the time of our life,
it was absolutely brilliant.

We were getting paid for it as well.
How good is that?

Well, it's been a grey
and misty morning in London.

Even so a crowd of 50,000
were at White Hart Lane,

awaiting the arrival of the football
league champions.

And here they come,
Nottingham Forest, champions of England.

Unbeaten in their last 37 games.
Unbeaten in their last 39 league games

and with just one defeat
in their last 59 games.

These men have really created records
that take your breath away.

And you don't need me to tell you
who's behind it all.

Here he is, Brian Clough, of course.
Manager extraordinary.

And he'd be the first to tell you that the
man just going out of the picture there,

Peter Taylor, his right hand man,
has had just as much to do

with this phenomenal success as he has.

Brian Clough getting a great
reception from this Tottenham crowd.

That's good to see
and you have to admit that he deserves it.

The previous year, it was
the second division that we had eventually,

whatever you say about,
almost scrambled up.

Now we'd won the league

and I think we'd kind of proved
ourselves in that sense.

You know, there was there,
there was something there.

There was more there for the manager
to at least mull over.

Lastly, I'm gonna get you
to have a feel of this, Brian,

and tell me what it feels like,
The European Cup.

Well at first, obviously, the first
thing is it feels very, very heavy.

But you know, if we can get it
at the end of this coming season,

it'll feel like a feather.

And I would like the,
I would like our name on it.

Keep holding it, it suits you.

We were all looking forward
to, er, to playing in Europe.

We had ideas of going to Rome
and Madrid and Paris and Milan and...

Who do we get?

- Bang!
- Liverpool.

Liverpool.

Not just an anti-climax because
you've been to Liverpool a million times,

but you've also drawn probably
the toughest team in the competition

and the reigning European champions.

Brian,
coming back to where we started,

because this is the big question
for you this weekend.

How really are you gonna cope
with Liverpool next weekend?

Because they have got
the European experience.

They've got the experience
of the two leg system.

Yes, they've got 14 years start on us,

because I think they've been in Europe 14... 14
years on the trot and this is our first year.

Er, we're gonna cope with them
as we coped with them last year.

To, you know, do our best.
We can't worry too much about Liverpool.

If we're worried about Liverpool,
they drive us... They'll drive us crackers.

It was quite deflating.

We were all disappointed.

The place was, er, was in a sombre mood.
No getting away from it.

They were
the measure of what you had to achieve.

To draw them in the first round,
the holders as well.

Well, I was a bit sick to be honest with
you. If I'm probably telling the truth,

I thought, "Maybe we ain't gonna do this."

The whole world, well the whole of Europe
thought that Liverpool would beat us.

Pundits,
journalists alike thought,

"Well, okay, Nottingham Forest have won the
league, but now they get their comeuppance."

Can't possibly beat Liverpool
over two legs. You know, this mob.

Erm, but Brian and, and Peter as usual were,
were very confident and bullish about it.

So we'll concentrate
on our game, putting it together.

We'll concentrate on trying
to get a goal at our place, obviously.

We'll concentrate on keeping a clean sheet.

The normal things and we'll concentrate
on providing good football.

What are you gonna achieve
finally in this season, Brian?

You stunned us last season.
You haven't had the best of starts, but...

And it's a good word
as well, 'cause we did stun you.

Yeah you did.

And everybody, and the trophies
are there to prove it.

Within two or three days,

we've all cleared our heads. We've been told
that we're equally as good, if not better.

Clough, when he called us
together, he said, "Listen."

He said, "You know what they'll be saying
in their dressing room? 'Not them again.'"

He said, "If we're gonna win it,

"you'll have to meet Liverpool at some
stage, so beat them in the first round.

"Get them out of the way."

Fortunately for us,
the game came and we were awesome.

Anderson to Burns again.

Really right on top of his game tonight.

Bowyer... A little flick on!

Woodcock... And Birt... Birtles has got it!

His first ever goal for Nottingham Forest
and it had to be the European Cup.

One-nothing.

Well, what a night for Garry Birtles.

Garry was Roy of the Rovers
when he joined us.

He'd gone from obscurity to
headline fame literally overnight.

Everybody likes to score against Liverpool
and, er, tremendous feeling.

From that moment on,
he was brilliant.

We never believed that
we couldn't beat them.

Even though they were
the great Liverpool team.

It was just a case of
holding out, we'll keep it out

one-nil, one-nil, we'll
grind it out one-nil.

It was Forest and they couldn't believe
what was happening.

The time was running out.

And they tried to get a goal.

They'd get a corner.
We cleared it off the touchline.

Phil Neal tries to pass it
up the line, Colin blocks it.

I think he won it twice.

And it's gone out to Birtles.

For some reason I've
gone galloping forward.

The two of them, almost in unison jump up.

"Where's he going?"

"What is that lunatic doing?
Where's he going?"

Phil Thompson came sort of sliding in
but didn't quite get it.

He's crossed it and Tony's just
cushioned the ball for Colin Barrett.

And I just hit it sweet.

"What's he doing! Great goal."

"Oh, what a goal!"

And I remember
Peter Taylor afterwards saying,

"We were encouraging them to go forward
in the last couple of minutes in the game."

What Colin's doing up there, I don't know.

"Colin scored that?"

And I can still remember
Tony Woodcock grabbing hold of me

and I told him to F-off, 'cause I was
on my way. I was running round the ground.

If you ever scored a goal against
Liverpool in a game like that,

you realised how fast you can run.

Out of all the Liverpool games
we've played over the years,

I always remember Colin Barrett's goal.

I actually think that the
goal that Colin scored

made that second leg at Anfield
not easy, but easier.

I know the manager won't like it
if we get too excited you know what I mean,

but you're in the dressing room
for five minutes,

the only talking point is,
"Col, what were you doing up there?"

I never saw that goal again
for about another 10 years.

It was about the time when JR got shot,
JR Ewing got shot.

This is the wife. So she put it on tape

and my goal was on tape.

...some confidence to do it.
Not a bad looking cross... Woodcock!

It was you, Kristen.

True story. Wives, eh?

The Saturday previous to the return leg,

Liverpool beat Tottenham
seven-nil at Anfield.

...but it's gone to Dalglish and
he turns and... Dalglish at the far post.

In it goes, and this is becoming a riot.

So that performance
against Spurs doesn't frighten you?

- Nothing, not that much.
- Right.

We should have scored seven past
Spurs on the first match of the season.

What are their weaknesses?

Well, the weakness is that they couldn't
score a goal against us last season.

That's not a bad one for a start,

so don't ram seven goals down
my throat or anybody else's.

Colin got injured in
ensuing games before the second leg.

So I, I played in the second leg up there
and it was a bit like the Alamo at times.

Anfield was
the hardest place ever to go to.

It was incredible.
It was so electric,

and in those days obviously the Kop it
was, it was standing. They were swaying.

Brian always told us,
"Right, get out on the pitch before."

So we all went down the Kop and of
course all the booing and everything,

throwing oranges and everything at us.

I used to love the Liverpool nights.

A tennis ball came on the pitch
and John Robertson flicked it up,

volleyed it straight
in the top corner of the net.

All of a sudden the mood changed
and they all started cheering.

How to take the pressure off
in one easy lesson.

As a team we defended really well
and that starts from the front players,

midfield players and of course,
the back four were brilliant.

Obviously, they had a little bit
more on, on our goal.

They had more attacks, more shots.
But Shilts was in good form,

Burnsy and I were in good form,
the full backs were in good form.

We just knew that if
the other team got the ball,

then I should be marking him,
he should be doing this.

And, and it, and it just, it was just us,
it just fell into shape if you like.

Good tackle by Bowyer.

They do show you how to win the ball,
these Forest midfield players.

We were compact,
as soon as people come in our half,

that's when we started to close them down.

And we became really expert at it.

You rolled your sleeves up.

You're digging in and you know how good
they are, but you've just gotta keep going.

We're in time added on now

by the French referee for stoppages and there
won't be too much. There'll hardly be any!

That whistle signals the end of
Liverpool's hold on the European Cup.

Nottingham Forest's organisation and flair
and style over the two matches was too good,

even for the European champions.
It's the end of an era.

That was great credit to us,
because Liverpool were, you know,

a great team, had some great players,
but we had that little bit more.

The Kop is silent.
Silent in tribute to Forest

who won a tie, which at the start of it, many
people didn't think they had much chance of.

When we beat Liverpool,
I remember Bob Paisley saying afterwards,

he thought we could go on and win it.

And you realise, "Mmm, I think we must have
a bit of respect in this in this world."

Getting into the European Cup
was the hardest thing,

'cause you had to win the league,

but once we got past Liverpool,
I think we thought, "You never know."

If this is the best Europe's got, you
know, maybe we have got a chance.

How far do you think your
own side can go in the European Cup?

I think we'll go reasonably well, John.
We don't know, you see.

We're babes in the wood
regarding European football.

Um, what we do know
is we've beaten Liverpool.

That's all we can do. We've knocked them
out. We don't know who we're going to draw.

We don't like talking,
you know, hypothetically.

I, personally, don't talk about things
that, you know, are not there yet.

We're not going to anticipate.
We're going home tonight.

We're gonna go to bed, have a couple
of beers, perhaps on the coach,

and we're gonna get ready
for Aston Villa on Saturday.

And I'm not kidding,
that's as far as it goes.

After that almost domestic confrontation
with Liverpool, Nottingham Forest's

first true venture into the unknown
areas of the European Cup begins here,

in the stadium of AEK Athens.

We looked upon them as being almost like
pioneering adventures for us, you know?

There's more
sort of gamesmanship,

or strange form of gamesmanship with these
foreign sides, though off the pitch, Brian.

Oh, yes. They, they throw everything at
you, apart from literally the kitchen sink

and if they could get away with that,
they would do that also.

You scored four goals for the national
side against Finland yesterday, Mavrus.

Can you score four goals
against Peter Shilton?

It was our first experience of the
hostility that you can find in Europe.

I think it was Archie Gemmill,
or somebody like that, saying,

it's an intimidating atmosphere, Athens.

These Greeks,
they're a dangerous lot.

You know, you've gotta watch it here tonight.
They could be turning up in front of the gates.

It's a good job we've got security here.

We stayed somewhere
on the beach and we had little chalets,

and I was in with Tony Woodcock.
And I remember going back to my room early.

Ten to 15, 20 minutes later,
there was a complete power cut.

And the lights go out.
And I'm thinking, "Ooh."

And you imagine things then.

And before I get to the room,
he could hear me coming.

I was stuck in the toilet,
'cause I was scared,

in the toilet thinking,
"Are they coming to get us?"

"Who's there?" You know,
and I knock on the door.

"Who's there? Keep out!" You know?

Well, I thought this, 'cause everyone says
they intimidate

and they'd do anything to get three points.
I'm thinking, "They're coming to get me."

If Brian Clough and Peter Taylor
want to learn a new trick

for their managerial repertoire when they come
to Athens, then they, like the rest of us,

will find that you can always learn
from the ancient Greeks.

Their stadium
was amazing, you know?

I mean, they really do get into their football
over there and they do get very excited.

There was a real aggression
that germinated from the terracing...

But we got a good result.

People talk about the crowd, but I've never
seen a spectator actually score a goal.

You know? And that was one of my moments
of glory in the away game.

Actually it's probably the only time in, in
all the time I played with John Robertson

that I actually ran past him.

Was it Frank Clark got forward?

I think he got a nosebleed, you know,
'cause he got that far forward.

For some reason,
I gave the ball to John and thought,

"I'll keep on running here,
I might just surprise everyone."

I did keep on running and I got, I got
right through with the ball and then got

very near the goal and then kind of looked
around and thought, "Help!"

He's crossed the ball for me and it's come
to me, I could have put it in first time,

but for some reason I didn't, I took a
touch, that sidestepped the keeper,

then put it in the empty net.

I think John McGovern scored
the other one and he didn't score many.

A quick look at the bench to see
if I was gonna get a rollocking

for being that far
forward, you know, but...

They were no mugs.
They put us to the sword in the second half

and they only got one back, but it was
great to take a lead back to Nottingham.

It is a very good team...

And he plays a very good football.

Erm, there are many good players.

Puskas arrives with the AEK team.

They did a little warm up. I thought,
"I'll stay and watch him a little bit."

And he's hitting shots from the edge
of the box and he's just hitting every one

in the top corner of the net and
the goalkeepers couldn't get near them.

And I think he was trying to show off
a little bit, 'cause I thought,

"Well that's not really building
the goalkeeper's confidence up."

Puskas, who played
for Hungary at Wembley

25 years ago this month, in the match the
Hungarians won six-three against England

and then wrote his name
all over the European Cup.

First as a player with Real Madrid,
and then as the manager of the Greek club,

Panathinaikos, who reached
the final at Wembley in 1971.

And maybe that support
is also for Brian Clough.

Well you're obviously the best
player in what is a poor Birmingham team,

but do you really think
you're worth one million pounds?

Well, I went in to see Brian Clough and I
says, er, I said, "I'm gonna get married."

He says, "Again?" I says, "Yeah." He says,

"Okay. What do you think
of Trevor Francis?"

I say, "He's a good player.
Good player. Very good."

He said, "We're gonna sign him."
I says, "Good."

I've not put in a transfer request.

No, but you want to go.
You want to leave the club don't you?

Erm, well, I, I'd rather not say, Gary.

What does the prospect of
playing for Brian Clough feel like to you?

Erm, it appeals to me very much.
I've always, er, respected Brian.

Except when he told me
to take my hands out of my pockets.

Young man, to be the best in anything,

you've got to be the best among
what you've seen there,

it's got to be very special.
Get your hands out your pockets.

He's got a tremendous record and if I get
the opportunity, I'd love to speak to him.

You know I felt at the time that
it's a great opportunity for me,

'cause they were the only team in the league
who could actually compete with Liverpool.

You know, I've not won anything yet.

I've always hoped that things would change.

You know, the club has progressed to
the quarter finals of the European Cup.

I know it's been said so many times, but I
don't think any player is worth one million.

To go and pay a million pounds you know,
was a real statement of intent. It was,

I think it was two or three times the
record fee before that, you know.

This was the biggest day
in my, er, footballing career

and we were on the verge of,
you know, breaking the transfer record,

bearing in mind that the, the
current record was only 500,000.

So it was actually doubling it.
I remember the chairman, er,

popping his head into the door,
asking Brian how the negotiations,

how were they going.

"Mr Chairman, when I have something to tell
you, I shall let you know. Now get out."

I put that there just in case
he makes a balls of it.

Brian ran the club, er, in those days.

And it had to be on a money in equals money
out basis every year, you know?

There was no, er, rich sugar daddy

coming and chucking
millions of pounds into the club.

It just wasn't run that way.

Now what is it that makes
Trevor worth a million pounds to you?

His ability, young man.

What do you expect him to do for Forest?

Basically to score goals and be
part and parcel of a good side.

You know, I was familiar with making
back page headlines,

but this was front page headlines.

Do you feel that having
that millions pounds tag round your neck

will be a burden in your
playing career now?

Erm, I hope not. At the moment it certainly
isn't. I'm quite excited about it.

But, erm, I realise that
what I get on that pitch,

I've gotta forget about it then
and just get on with playing.

That's the most important factor.

There was no question that Trevor
was a top class player.

So it was a real statement of intent.
It gave us the players a lift.

Obviously one or two people who were
looking at it players thinking,

"Oh, I hope he's not gonna get my place."

But I knew he wasn't gonna play
left back but...

So yeah, it gave the club
a lift without doubt.

There were some big players there.
The likes of Gemmill and Shilton

and Woodcock and Robertson, and it was
just such an honour for me, you know,

to be amongst these players.

And when do you expect
to play your first game for Forest?

When I pick him.

It wasn't that easy, you know, because
I joined the club in the month of February,

and it was obviously just over
halfway through the season.

He wasn't in the team for about three
or four weeks. He was on the bench.

Do you want them
signing or not? No?

He's done it.
No, he's done it once. It's done.

Whoever was sub, if I wanted a cup
of tea, he'll get me a cup of tea.

And Cloughy walked in with Trevor
behind him. He says, "What are you doing?"

"Nothing." "What's that in your hand?"
I said, "Cup of tea."

"Put that back. Put that back."

So I get up, put it down.
He turned to Trevor and he said,

"Trevor, you get him a cup of tea.

"'Cause you've done bugger all for
45 minutes, so that's your job."

Unpredictable, er, ruthless,
erm, quite brilliant at his job.

Erm, he could be quite eccentric at times,
but he was bordering on being a genius.

And you notice straight away

that Peter Taylor is leading out
Nottingham Forest.

Where is Brian Clough? It's his right-hand
man Peter Taylor, who gets the honour.

I discussed it with Peter about a week ago
and I said to him, I said,

you know, he needs exercise
more than I do, Brian.

I play squash and he's putting weight
on like... I'm only kidding.

I discussed it with him
a week ago and I said,

"It would do you good to get out with them
this time." They wouldn't let us both go out.

Going all the way... Birtles!

If it means teaching players good habits, if
it means giving them pride in themselves,

if it means abiding by a few
little rules and if we have discipline

running right through the club,
so they can come back at half time

and win cup finals, then they want me
every day of the week.

We felt at halftime you know, that
if we could just step it up a little bit,

we could win the game,
and that's the way it went.

400 games was it? Or more
for Newcastle and a free transfer in '75.

You could never have thought that all this

was gonna happen to you
at Nottingham Forest.

No, no, I was quite pleased to get fixed
up in the second division at the time.

Never mind thinking
about coming here, you know?

I thought Frank Clark was
the best player on the field today.

His consistency was a credit to him
and an example to everybody else.

People were saying, "Grasshoppers of Europe
beat Real Madrid." You know, "Come on."

That's a useful ball and Mayer's
first time ball was meant for Sulzer

and that wasn't a bad one either
and Sulzer gets in here for Grasshoppers!

And well, don't say Forest weren't warned.

Yeah, it was very, very close.
I think it was only like one each,

it might have been two one to us
with very little time to go.

There are three minutes
to go and Forest badly want the third goal.

Here's Gemmill! Archie Gemmill!

And we nicked two in the last minute to
make it really four-one convincing.

Gave us a real platform to go over there.

And boy did we not need those goals?
Really did. They gave us a torrid time.

I think they scored a penalty
after about 20 minutes.

Sulzer versus Shilton.
Yes! Grasshoppers one-nothing...

It was very, very hostile
surprisingly, for me, in Zurich.

I didn't expect the Swiss to be as volatile
as they were on the night.

It was hard work out
playing there. It really was.

John would get the ball on the left hand
side, as he was entitled to get it,

because he was a genius. My job was
to try and get into the back post.

I'm doing all these runs back and
forward there. No one has noticed these.

I'm every bit as tired as, as they are,
where you're doing the work down there,

but I have to do all this, called doggies
in the game. So Clough and Taylor

were roaring at me in this game against
Grasshoppers to get into the penalty area.

...with the cross,
O'Neill! Yes!

Well, that has shocked the crowd here.

They were full of praise for me getting
into the penalty area in the first place,

right into the penalty box, but I think
they were particularly pleased themselves

that they had told me to get in there
and said that if they hadn't done,

I might not have done it. I would
have done, 'cause that's what I did.

I know you always try

and keep your feet on the ground
at this club, but are you not beginning

to think about the possibility of really
winning the European Cup outright now?

We, we always, we always think of
winning any competition we're in.

It suits us actually to be playing the
Germans in one sense of the word,

because I think they play nearest to English
football out of anybody that we know.

Erm, how they'll compare to Liverpool, I
don't quite know. I don't think they'll be

as good as Liverpool, 'cause I think
Liverpool are as good a side in Europe

as they have proved in the last two years.

So, from your point of view,

what worries would
you have playing Cologne?

The build up to the game, it's England
against Germany, so it's, it's gonna be, er,

nip and tuck.

Cologne were the best team in Germany
and favourites to win the title

after Real Madrid had gone out.

You're playing in the semi-final
of the European Cup

and it's moments like this here
that you thought,

"Well I wonder how Puskas and Di Stefano and
all those players all felt about matches."

It is essential you do well at
home. All is not lost if you don't win

by a two, or three, four goal margin, but
it is essential you put up a good display

and take a lead to the opposition's camp.

And the one thing we'll have to conquer, and
we didn't do it against Zurich was our nerves.

I don't think on the night I've ever been
so ready to play football.

Peter had gone to see Cologne play
and he said, "Listen, don't fear them."

I think the English player pound for pound,
temperament wise, skill wise, physical wise,

I think is the best in the world,
without a shadow of a doubt.

He said,
"The two things I look at,

"Can they head the ball?
They can't head the ball.

"Are they quick? No.

"They've got no pace in the team."
He said, "We'll murder them."

It's Kanaka,
Muller is free over the far side.

Has he seen him?
Yes he has.

I started the game as a left back
and Archie Gemmill got injured,

I went into midfield and Frank came on.

And we were all over the
place, defensively.

Our normal game is you know,

we'll hustle the opposition,
we'll rush them off their feet.

But, I didn't realise
how good Cologne were on the break.

They're the quickest team
we've ever played,

and the pitch has not
bothered them one jot.

I think we almost gave a
collective look over to Taylor.

As if to say, "What are you on about?"

Through ball for Glowacz.

Glowacz being chased by Needham,
that's a good ball into Van Gool.

Good drive and a goal!

Yes!

Van Gool, and that is a dramatic goal.

And once again Cologne break,

and the long striding
Herbert Neumann has a look,

and finds Van Gool and he's all right.

It's one against one, Van
Gool against Shilton

and now it's Muller to
score goal number two.

Oh, my goodness me,
Forest are in real trouble.

Two-nil down, that was a shock.

You know, maybe we're not as good
as we think we are.

We've chucked everything at them,
but we're two-nil down.

Two break aways,
and I was just in a daze really.

And there was just so much
going on in the game,

it was end to end.

It was gonna be a goal,
it was going to be a goal.

Everything that,
that you thought football could be.

I think Roger Van Gool went through,

and he clipped it just wide of the post.

'Cause we would have been
dead and buried at three, I'm sure.

He's in for a chance...

Oh, and he's just wide!

And he holds his head in his hands.

Again, all we need is one goal
and we'll get back in the match.

Needham...

And it's looking for Birtles!

And that was a beautiful goal
from Garry Birtles.

We got a goal back just before half time.

...scored his first
European Cup goal against Liverpool.

Two-one now to Cologne.

I scored a goal.

Good chip...
Birtles knocks it down...

And Bowyer scores the goal!

Beautifully constructed
goal for Ian Bowyer.

This man of all parts, man of all seasons.

It's two-two.

John Robertson believe it, or not,
scored with a header.

Here's Woodcock... McGovern...

There goes Birtles...

Turns and oh, it's great!

And a superb goal!

John Robertson!

He never heads a goal in his life,

and he's dived full length,
diving header, in the bottom corner.

So you think,
"Something's happening here."

What a fantastic goal by John Robertson.

Three-two Nottingham Forest.
17 minutes into the second half.

Cologne wants to make a substitution
and bring on their Japanese international.

I hadn't really had a lot to do,
even though I'd let two goals in.

I remember he got the ball
on the edge of the box

towards the end of the game
and he turned and hit a shot...

...and I was expecting it to skid.

Oh! Oh, my goodness me!

What a way to come on as a substitute.

It's a bad goal to give away.

It's a terrible moment.

But from the position
that we were in at two-nil,

we would have taken the three-three.

Just couldn't believe it.
Absolutely gutted.

I am content with this result. I think
it is a good basis for the next leg.

A three-three draw,
in one of the best atmospheres

I think I ever remember
playing at The City Ground.

Just an incredible atmosphere that night.

I honestly felt,
when I've come in, that I'd played in

just about the most
atmospheric game imaginable.

I must admit though,
it was a bit embarrassing,

the next morning
when I picked the newspaper up,

and the headline went,
"Japanese sub sinks Shilton."

Despite us, you know,
managing to get back into the game

and drawing the game,
because they've scored three away goals,

we've got to go and win, in Cologne.

We're despondent obviously,
not going to Cologne with a lead,

but far from out of any competition.

This is where Cloughy comes into his own.

He says, "Listen, this
game is not over yet."

He says, "Don't anybody be so silly
to think we're out of this.

"We'll go there and win."

I hope anybody's not stupid enough
to write us off.

And that was it.

A lingering stare into the camera,

just to make sure everybody's got it,
you know?

I really thought he meant it.

And he kept on saying it to us.

"We'll win out there. No problem."

We always think we can win.

Genuinely, we always think we can win.

And the way they defended
having got two goal start,

they didn't over impress us either.

It was always, "You're better than them."

It made you feel a million dollars you
know, "We are better than the opposition."

We did believe we could get a result.

We're gonna win this game.
We're gonna go through to the final.

That's the only language
they understand, sir.

You see, they don't like it up 'em,
they do not like it up 'em.

You don't think
it'll go wrong then, like it did at home.

By hell, I hope not!

I've had enough of three
goals going past us

to last me to the next five years,
let alone the next match.

The referee,
Nicola Serenier of Romania,

gets the second leg under way,

with Forest commencing a straightforward,
if not simple task.

They need their 13th away win of the season

and they have 90 minutes to achieve it.

By the time that we got to Germany,
we felt that if we don't concede early,

we will, we can win this game.

Muller...

They had a chance really early on,
with a boy called Dieter Muller.

- And he missed the target.
- Oh!

Again, it's a cup match
and you need all the rub of the green.

We were under the cosh.

It's all about concentration
at the highest level.

If you switch off,
lose concentration for a second,

you get torn apart.

They only needed the draw,

or one-one or two-two,
was still good enough for them.

I'm not sure that they knew after a while,
what to do themselves

and I think that we sensed
that uncertainty about them

during the course of the match.

It put a doubt in their minds,
you know."How shall we approach this?

"We're at home, shall we go
and play our usual game,

"where we have to take the initiative
and attack teams,

"and risk conceding a goal, or shall
we just sit back and keep it tight?"

And sometimes those things
can play on people's minds.

I've seen it happen many,
many times in two-leg football.

O'Neill!
Oh, he really thumped that.

Really got hold of that Martin O'Neill
and came in very sharply.

As we reach half time...

Forest in going for the victory
that they must have,

got to guard against
leaving themselves too bare at the back.

The game swings from one end, to the other.

But they've got to gamble because
they need the victory, Cologne don't.

And he hits it straight at Shilton.

We played well
as a unit who had to defend

when we needed to defend, but we still
had that ability to get a goal.

Cologne in their fifth European semi-final.

They've never been further.

And here,
we get the chance for the corner kick.

We might not be able to force
that many great openings

during the course of the match,
this is an opportunity.

They look a little bit worried.

John Robertson took the corner
and chipped it into the near post.

Garry Birtles has just got
in front of the defender...

And I headed the thing into the net.

There's Bowyer!
Yes, he's done it!

One-nil, that's all we need.
One goal's enough for us.

I actually misheaded it,
but don't tell anybody.

...played in so many places
for Nottingham Forest.

You can sense that victory.

Holding on to the last 20 minutes, erm,
was something that I felt

we were as strong as
any side in Europe to do.

The referee looking at his watch,

and Nottingham Forest are
in the European Cup Final.

Having beaten Liverpool,

they've carried on from there
to keep the English flag in the final,

for the third year running.

That one-nil win in Cologne to me,

was as important as any game
we played in Europe.

It's what it meant, you know,
every round was a new adventure.

Every round it was the furthest,
obviously, that the club had ever been.

...by Ian Bowyer
in the 64th minute of the match.

It was unreal. It was unreal. It was...
Everybody was living in a dream.

Two or three seasons before,
we were in the second division.

Mid-table, second division team.

It's, you know, it's just unheard of.
It really is fairy-tale stuff.

He's done it!

After we played in Nottingham,

not many people thought
we were going to do it,

but I did.

Deep down you were still sure?

Well I said to you after the match,
that anybody who thought

we were out of this
competition were stupid.

I hope he doesn't mean us!

I thought to myself, "Well that's
it, I'm playing in a cup final."

I always remembered
the European Cup Final in 1960.

Real Madrid versus, er, Eintract Frankfurt.

Dominguez, Marquitos, Pachin,
Vidal, Santamaria, Zarraga, Canario,

Del Sol, Di St�fano, Puskas, Gento.

And Puskas scoring four.

I thought European Cups were for him,
and people like him.

I'm from Glasgow
and I played in the streets

and never ever in my lifetime did I ever
think I'd get to a European Cup Final.

God, you think
you could be European champions.

It's something you dream about.

We were favourites, you know.

Going into it, the pressure was on us
and, you know, it was gonna be a real test.

It's difficult
to remember your actual feelings,

because you're kind of
thinking about, okay,

we're going to Munich
for the European Cup Final.

First thing I wanna make sure is
that I'm in the side.

Am I gonna be playing?

Because there's always
competition for places.

I think it was something like
our 70th game, or something, of the season.

And we only had a squad of 15 or 16,
you know, erm...

All this resting players
and picking a totally different team

for one game after the other, that was...
That never happened in those days.

This rotation business that
we have, erm... It wasn't for us.

You became massively disappointed
if you were left out for a minute.

You became every bit as disappointed,

if you were ever taken off
in a game as well too, you know.

You've gotta play in finals.

If you're not playing in it,
then no point in celebrating.

All right, you're happy for everybody,

but if you're not actually playing in it,
then you're not part of it.

We knew Trevor was gonna play.

That was the first game in Europe
that he was eligible for.

There was no doubt that he was gonna play.

I've got something
to thank UEFA for,

because the rules permitted anyone
that signed when I signed,

during the season, if the team progressed
to the final, they could play in the final.

Myself, Martin O'Neill
and Archie, Archie Gemmill,

had all had niggling injuries.

Nothing serious, but niggling injuries.

I got injured in the first leg of
the semi-final, and he said to me,

"If you get yourself fit son,
you'll play in the final. If you're not..."

I got myself fit.

The three of us were training
and we were all looking at each other

because we all knew
we had a chance of playing.

I could play left back,
and Ian Bowyer would be in midfield,

and Trevor would be wide on the right,
and that would be the team.

I never knew that I was
gonna play in that final,

up until the day of the game.

Clough actually
walked past me, and quietly said to me,

"I was gonna have
a game of tennis with you today,

"but you're playing tomorrow."

Quietly.

Martin could
look at the team and think well,

"Trevor's gonna play, so I won't be there.

"Well I could play in central midfield
and Ian Bowyer could play at left back."

And Archie was thinking the same,

"Well I can play in midfield
and Ian Bowyer can play left back."

And fortunately, he had picked me.

Both players
have told the manager they're 100% fit.

He says, "Well, that's great news,
because you're both on the bench."

When he announced the team
and I wasn't in it,

there were very harsh words said by both.

He went with Frank,
'cause Frank was closer to fitness.

Archie and Martin were
devastated, obviously.

Archie so bad that he
left the club, you know.

He didn't play another game for Forest.

He got rid of me the following season,
to Birmingham.

I would have been devastated.

I mean, I was really sorry for the two lads
'cause you know, I like them both,

but you know, that's life really.

I was very fortunate.

You know, to have that opportunity
of making my debut in Europe,

in a European competition, in the final.

You have to remember, again, I came in '73

where Forest's average attendance would be
something, only like 12,000 or 13,000,

and there were 20,000 people
who'd made the journey to Munich.

So many tales
about people getting to the final.

My own brother, you know,
he worked for Rolls Royce.

He jumped a cargo plane in Bristol.

I've been surprised, you know,

in years gone by
just at how many football supporters,

not necessarily
Nottingham Forest supporters,

who actually came to
support Nottingham Forest.

People hitching, people cycling,
people going to these European matches.

And I think the city grew up with the team.

The weather was fabulous.

I'm sure there were literally hundreds
of Nottingham people

that slept in the grounds
of the Olympic Stadium in Munich.

As we look round the stadium now,

we can see that they're outnumbering
the supporters of Malmo.

Something like two to one.

They are very conscious, as I said,
that they carry the torch,

and they intend to be the third English
side to win this European Cup.

And that will be a record.

We're all sat about,
waiting for the last one to come down.

And that last one was Garry Birtles.

Garry comes down and he's not shaving,

he's got a couple of days growth,
or whatever, again.

And Brian Clough said to him...

"What's that on your face?"
I said, "What do you mean?"

He said, "Round your chin."

"When I sweat and I've had a shave,
you know, I get really sore,

"and it irritates me and it distracts me."

"Get upstairs, and get it shaved off now!"

"Five minutes, otherwise
you're not playing."

He was back within five minutes.

He's got a piece of paper here,
piece of paper there, piece of paper there.

It was lucky
he hadn't cut his throat really.

I think that was done purposely.

He can see how nervous you are.

Said, "Right I've gotta take him out
of the situation he's in at the moment.

"Just take his mind off it."

Again, great man management.

We talked,
I was gonna say very little.

We talked, in fact,
not at all about the opposition.

What an atmosphere.
What a time.

You know, the pitch was magnificent.
Everything was magnificent.

It's called the Foehn.

And it's a hot wind that
comes down from the mountains

that changes the atmosphere
a little bit and stuff like that.

And it was a really sticky night.

And I just felt that, you know,

I had to justify my selection,
by playing at an extra level.

...with Nottingham Forest

about to get
the 24th European Cup Final underway.

Attacking the goal to the right
and lining up with two forwards,

although Robertson was out on the far side.

Here's Birtles...

The land of the giants they were. All
over six foot, managed by an Englishman.

Very well organised.
Really difficult to break down.

I think they had one half chance
when, on a rare attack,

Kenny Burns, who was magnificent,
made a rare error

when he misheaded a header back to me,

and one of their players got in between us.

Burns...
Oh he's given it away to Kinnvall!

And rescued by Shilton.

Kenny Burns definitely in two minds then.

Woodcock again, full of industry.

That's McGovern's shot!

The most cleanly hit shot of the night.

Well, I remember the ball being
played out wide to John Robertson.

And I was probably a good 40 yards
you know, from goal.

I felt as if that was the first time
in the half, or up until that point,

where I got a ball
from longer than five, 10 yards away.

And it nearly went out of play.
I nearly never kept it in.

Malmo had doubled up on him,
so they put two players on him.

The two players were very close together.

Well, this is my chance,
I'll have a go here.

If he goes past the full back, which,

there was a good chance he will do,
and delivers a ball and I'm not there,

I'm gonna get another, you know,
dressing down from Brian Clough,

which, you don't need too many of them.

Got there and again,

not looking, or picking anything,
just trying to clip it in there.

And I was gonna go for it.

You can see me on the picture,
sort of hang back a little bit.

'Cause if I'd have gone for it,
I'd have missed it,

because it was too much pace,
I'd have put it wide.

Robertson...

The million pounds is
forgotten immediately.

Because record breaking fee...

Scored a goal in the European Cup Final.

The best moment
in my footballing career, by far.

It was just the most magical feeling,
you know?

To see that ball hit the back of the net.

Francis, another good run.

Comes from behind Birtles
and here's Robertson!

And he hits the post!

Fifteen seconds now,
we make it on the watch,

to win it by the only goal.

Not seen too much of this sort of thing
from Anderson,

just one to remember in the first half.

But it doesn't matter any more,
Nottingham Forest have done it!

They don't mind about the score.

They're only concerned about the fact,

that the European Cup
has come to Nottingham Forest.

As John McGovern,
who came off a park pitch in Hartlepool

to follow Brian Clough
to all his clubs, except one.

Coming up to receive the trophy
that has many famous names on it,

from Real Madrid forward.

Well my dad died when I was 11.
He never saw me play football.

When I received the cup,
people said I wasn't smiling.

I was kind of smiling
but wasn't really over joyous.

That was the first thing
that came into my head,

I wish my dad was here...

The trophy at the moment,
dwarfing John McGovern.

Larry Lloyd, who left Liverpool
rather hastily perhaps,

was in the wilderness for some time,

smiles as John McGovern
holds the European Cup aloft.

And the aims of Brian Clough
and Peter Taylor achieved,

but I'm sure they're not
gonna rest on their laurels.

That's one of their great secrets,
they don't do anything of that nature.

They will be planning for the future now,
to hold onto it.

John Robertson has been turned
from an also stroll,

into an international player
by Clough and Taylor.

Trevor Francis just going through.

Francis, who's gone a very,
very long way tonight

to justify the money paid for him.

What's it like
playing under Clough and Taylor?

They did promise you
that they'd give you trophies.

What can I say?

You know,
I've been here three and a half months,

and it's worked out perfectly.

Peter Taylor,
you and Brian Clough

have won so many things,
but how does last night rate,

the European Cup?

Well first of all, Gary,
we've accomplished what we came for.

We're bringing the cup back, number one.

It sunk in
as soon as we got off the plane really

at East Midlands Airport, you know?

The crowd were fantastic.

John,
you've won so many trophies

under Brian Clough and Peter Taylor,

what's this one like
compared with all the others?

A little bit heavier.

Obviously very nice to win.

But how do you cope with all this success?

I mean, do you just take it in your stride?

Because, I think most people
are staggered at the success

that Nottingham Forest
have had in such a short time.

Well that's due to the management,
you know?

We've obviously got good management
and we've got good players.

We work hard at our jobs
and we get the results.

I'd spent, sort of,
11, 12 years in the lower divisions,

but when I got to do all this,
I was really mature.

I could take it all in and enjoy it.

Some of the younger kids, I don't think
actually knew what was going on.

You know, it was just happening to them.

We all met at Home Pierrepoint,
the water sports centre.

Some four miles from the city centre.

So we've gone about
a mile and a half from Home Pierrepoint,

we hadn't seen a soul.

We're coming into West Bridgford
and of course there's no one about.

Nobody around,
this is gonna be embarrassing.

Robbo and Larry actually got off the bus
and jogged down the road to a bus stop.

They were the first two
that actually waved to the bus.

- Hello?
- There's people, there's people!

There's bloody people!

We went all over the place
and we saw people

that you'd never seen for years and years,
coming out to celebrate.

It was just a fantastic time.

Well it's amazing how much football means
to people's lives, at times, you know?

Women, babies, babies with strips on,
the flags are going.

That's when it you know,
I realised what this means to the people.

It brought tears to my eyes.

I had the most emotional time
I've ever had in football.

Larry Lloyd,
what do you think of this reception?

Unbelievable. I didn't think there were
this many people in Nottingham.

Are you enjoying yourself?

Absolutely unbelievable, it's, you know,
it's difficult to describe, you know?

These people are tremendous.
Over you know... Beautiful, beautiful.

Well, that's the moment
where the significance

of what you've achieved really hits home.

You know, so many people.

Euphoria,
everybody was just overtaken.

You know, we'd put Nottingham on the map.

It's my town, it's my city,
and I want to be part of it.

I can't put any words.
You know? It was just, just brilliant.

Brilliant.
I can't put it any plainer than that.

You know, you're very...
What's the word, very humble.

Hey, I like being a hero, all right?

People waving out to me,
when I'm walking around.

I like people coming up to me,
when I'm having a pint.

"All right, Larry, can I buy you a pint?"
"Well, yeah, yeah you can if you want."

I didn't mind that at all.

It was a great time,

and I would like to think all the supporters
had the time of their life as well.

I think they went with us.

They were on that journey with us,
make no mistake.

You know,
for a team to get promotion

into what is now the Premier League,
the old first division,

and then end up doing what we did,
two European Cups.

It'll never happen again.

That goes down as
possibly one of the greatest achievements,

I would say in world football.

It was a fantastic time,

and obviously we're talking about it
now 35 years on,

it's a great achievement and I hold
the medals very dear to my heart.

They were brilliant together.

Besides a massive knowledge of the game
they were great company,

and they could make you laugh.
They were brilliant people.

There was a change
when that man stepped into Nottingham.

And it was almost like getting on a train
and just not getting off.

You can talk and talk
and talk and talk about your profession,

but you have to go out and do it.

You know, there's no point
in just talking about it,

and trying to convince people you're right.

You have to give them the example
and then talk about it.

And we feel we should have a voice
in running our industry, and I mean ours.

I don't mean mine, I mean ours.
'Cause football belongs to everybody.

Were you strong in a
defensive wall, Martin?

I can imagine you in the wall
with your glasses on,

sort of flinching a little bit, like Benzema
did, or were you... Did you stand strong?

Well, that's very nice of
you to say this, here.

I actually didn't wear
glasses when I was...

No, I did not...

So, what you're seeing now
is an older gentleman.

But, I did actually play
the game at one time.

- Yes.
- Fabio wasn't terribly sure that I did...

You know, I had to remind him
that despite the fact,

that there's two World Cup winners here,

actually when it comes to
the Champions League...

- Yeah.
- Used to be called the European Cup,

I've won two of them.

I'd just like to know
how many you two have won?