All language subtitles for Mind The Game S02E16.en-us.Dialog.Sdh

When you think back to our time
in Brooklyn, what do you think of?

Damn.

[theme music plays]

It's just crazy how fast the game is
played since I came into the league,

it usually is like a slow uptick,

but it's clearly different from…

-When was your last year in the league?
-'14.

-And '14 to now.
-Right.

That's when I feel like it started to…

[Kevin] That looked like
the '90s compared…

-Started to do this.
-Yeah, we done with the 90s. [laughs]

The '14s, the '10s through the '14s

looked like the old style of ball.

-'cause of the, you know…
-It's crazy right now.

But now it just looks
like we're playing 2K.

So many threes.

I love that we got bigs
shooting threes now.

I love that you got so much space to work.

I even love that you can throw zones
in there, mixing up defense.

That's a revolution, I think,
in the last six months, even.

That's like when we play Houston,

Ime Udoka does a good job of that,

he will go one possession regular man,

next possession, zone, go back to man,

the next three possessions, zone,

-all in the first quarter.
-Throwing you off balance.

In the first quarter, and then it's like,
okay, how good you are as a team,

how connected you are as a group,

how well you pass, guys are unselfish.

If a coach does that and
you're not prepared for it…

-You're all off balance.
-You all off balance.

You got no rhythm.
I'm gonna even go even more drastic,

who was even more crazier with it,

Erik Spoelstra would go
48 straight minutes of zone.

-He'd start the game on zone.
-And he might 1-2-2 press you

-back into a zone.
-Back into a zone

-and put Bam at the top.
-[all laugh]

Yeah, I mean, I see a lot of coaches
being creative defensively,

and that's pushing players
to become better offensively,

'cause when I'm working out,
I'm thinking, like,

'cause now, even
a man-on-man defense starting

to look like a zone a little bit
with so many gaps.

If you can't shoot, for sure,
they gonna be in the zone.

If you got non-shooters on the floor,
they for sure gonna be loaded up.

They might not be in zone,
but they're sitting in the lane.

-Exactly.
-And they not moving.

If a guy's in the corner, and he can't
shoot the three, and he can't finish,

there's a lot of guys,
the guy guarding the corner guy

is gonna be so far up the lane,
you're not gonna go anywhere.

-They don't mind if you go back door.
-That should be under 6'9" too.

So there's a lot of dudes who can't shoot
that's 6'4", 6'5" that's playing,

and you can just put Jokić on them,

and you not getting
the offensive rebound on him.

You not gonna layup over him.

He not even looking at you,
you know what I'm saying?

So, if you can't shoot,
if you just can't shoot at all…

-It's a premium.
-You not even gonna be in the league.

That's why OKC's defense is great.
They are individual defenders.

They get in the gaps. They're willing to
give up threes, but gonna fly at you.

They protect their paint,
so it looks like a zone,

but it's a man, but then they'll go zone
and they'll catch man,

-corner catch man.
-[Kevin] And switch it up in possessions.

-[Steve] During the possession.
-[Kevin] These coaches

are getting creative,
on the defensive, but like you said,

-it's because of the offenses...
-[Steve] That's it.

It's tit for tat. Offense got so good,
"Oh, we gotta change our defense."

-[LeBron] We gotta figure it out.
-Like you said,

it's pushing you to think about,
how do I find new spaces, right?

Yeah, and when you're looking at OKC,
like they play an ISO-based game…

-Offensively, they do.
-when you think about it.

-Yeah, they hunt.
-So, they have Shai, which he's, I mean,

historically elite ISO player, right?

Then they have Jalen,
who's kind of an all-arounder.

Chet brings you versatility.

The key to me is Hartenstein, in a way,

because like he, for 20
to 30 minutes a game,

becomes like a fulcrum, a hub.

Like the DHOs, the floater, the passing,

-to just take the…
-[Kevin] The floater.

[Steve] It's the rug
that brings the room together.

[Kevin] Bigs, man.
That floater, you get way more points

than just chucking up threes, especially
when playing with great players,

-he's been a hub for them,
-Yeah.

getting those other guys involved.

It doesn't make Shai have to do it
in isolation the whole game.

It doesn't make Jalen feel like,
"I gotta do it all the time."

Especially in the postseason,
when the game ramps up physically,

to be able to have a big as a hub,
"Okay, you pressuring me.

Stop me.
Boom, now I'm playing chase game."

Now you can't, you can't grab me then.

Now I'm playing chase game.

I can go backdoor, which Hartenstein,
he makes

that backdoor pass with the best of them.

You could play chase with him.

He's one of the best screen
setters in the league,

and now Shai or J Dub is coming off.

If the big helps and the guard ain't get
under Hartenstein, we got lob threat.

-Yep.
-Yeah.

Or we got skip to the corner.

So, you know, having that hub right there,

having a five that can play
from the three-point line

all the way into the paint and not even,

like you said,
he don't need to shoot threes.

He know his game.

You give it to me in the pinch post
or on delay action,

y'all trust me to make the play.

The bigs gotta come
into the league with that.

Nowadays you gotta be able to play DHO,

pinch posts, like move, make decisions.

-Know which angle to set it on.
-When to keep, when to get rid of it.

-Yeah.
-[Steve] I think he, though,

like he is the fulcrum
for their randomness.

Shai, he's just so elite at it.

He's getting attacked, but he's
the fulcrum to like now we're going…

Two on Shai, now we're gonna go play…

He knows when to flash.
Sometimes his flash is random.

The play might break down a little bit.

We ain't got nothing.
He just run up there.

-Great feel for center.
-Chaos. Organized chaos.

Yeah, organized chaos,
you know what I'm saying?

So, they got a damn good team.

-It's fun to watch.
-I love that the league

is trending towards that, though.

-That's just more hooping.
-Right.

I mean, structure is good,
don't get me wrong,

but like, I think you
maximize your players

when you just let them play.
Like I seen Obi Toppin playing

like some of his best ball that way.

I seen Nesmith playing
some of his best ball

where it's like, you're not restricted

to like, let me set this screen
and just wait for the jump shot.

They feel comfortable…

-Making a play.
-taking somebody off the dribble.

TJ McConnell comes in,
you feel like it's his team.

-You know what I'm saying?
-Yeah.

So, I feel like that's just a…

I would give Rick Carlisle
a lot of credit…

Yeah, I was about to say.

-He's always been like that.
-I think he's very adaptable.

-Yeah.
-What he's done

in these three, four years
is built an identity

-with his roster.
-Yes, yes.

Like you said, Bron, like it's not like,
"Okay, mismatch."

-"That's not us." He's found identity,
-Yeah, yeah

but it doesn't work if those guys
don't have freedom to play blender.

-Right.
-[Steve] They have freedom

to play blender instead of like,
"I didn't get it.

I gotta throw a lob past the center
to Hali to get it back and try again.

No, we just keep playing and moving."

[LeBron] You don't see Nesmith or Nembhard

coming off pick-and-rolls to throw lobs.

[Kevin] They just play their game.

That's not what they're doing.
Like everyone, they know exactly

what the hell they're doing.

They know their role, and they
are starring in their roles,

and they even going outside of the roles.

We talked about the game
Nesmith had, in New York.

-He took 'em to the finals with that.
-Yeah, that was game one.

They were down. He hit five or six threes
in the last two minutes.

-Crazy.
-Like, you know, but that's empowerment

from the coaching staff,
but it's also empowerment

from you as an individual. You have to…

A coaching staff can
give you some freedom.

But a coaching staff can
also pull that shit back.

If you ain't doing what you
supposed to be doing,

if you ain't earning it. Now I can't just…

Now you making me look bad.

Like, I can't do that.

And what I love about Indy, too,
and I think it's an underrated factor,

like Tyrese kicks the ball ahead.

Throws it ahead.

He doesn't dribble across half court.

Like, even when they hand him the ball,

the center hand him the ball after,

he kicking it ahead
no matter who it is, I think,

and I tell lot of young team

like coaches who wanna talk ball,

I'm like, "If your point guard
is not kicking the ball ahead,

in my opinion, your team is not
gonna be as good as…"

-More pressure on your team.
-Way more pressure

when he not kicking that ball ahead.

So when you seeing you kicking that ahead

to Siakam, and he coming
downhill or whoever,

-With no help.
-Yeah, you kicking it

to Obi Toppin downhill,

now he dribble hand-off
to Aaron Nesmith out the corner.

So that kick ahead for them

is a big reason why I feel
like they been so connected

-as a group.
-He's created that.

And I think what else,

he's just in general
a brilliant, simple, early passer.

Comes off pick-and-roll.

-If he sees somebody, just throws it.
-Yeah.

That guy's leaning the wrong way,
and that guy's gotta show and go

or, you know, DHO with the corner.

It gives him an advantage at all times

instead of being like bogged down.

-I'm impressed.
-'Rese is just an efficient.

Like all his movements
just seem efficient.

He doesn't turn the ball over.
He don't shoot bad shots.

I think he could be more aggressive, too,

-to score the ball sometimes.
-Yeah.

-[Steve] He might have to be.
-Yeah, especially this next game,

but just their connectivity is based a lot

on just moving the ball
to simple plays, like you said.

And they always say like…
It's funny, 'cause people say like,

"They don't turn the ball over much,
but they play so fast."

I think now, it's almost easier
to not turn the ball over.

You're not thinking,
"I gotta make a play."

He's open, chuck it,
pinch post, get it back.

You're not thinking,
"I gotta make a play."

You just think simple plays.

So now it's not like high risk
all the time, 'cause that's how we play.

We just get rid of it.

So you end up, and maybe I
should give 'em more credit,

but almost the style allows 'em to not

turn it over, 'cause they're
playing simple.

Yeah, you're right.

That's why it looked weird in game one

early on when they were
turning the ball over so damn much.

-Was that 25 turnovers?
-OKC's defense, and they won the game.

Yeah, it was like 21
turnovers at halftime.

-[Kevin] That's crazy.
-Think it was 26 for the game.

-In the finals.
-In the finals, and still won.

That goes back to your thing
about Rick trusting these guys.

-[LeBron] Right.
-Where does he get that back?

-They never stopped playing.
-[LeBron] No, they did not.

They never stopped playing.

And his face didn't never change, either.

I don't know what he said at halftime,

'cause I think they only had five or six
in the second half, but,

we got here, because this is how we play.

-Yep.
-You know?

As a coach, though, coming in the half

-when you got 21 turnovers,
-[LeBron] In a finals game.

What are you thinking as a coach, then?

-Hang yourself?
-[all laugh]

No, honestly, though,
but what Rick does great,

-and I know this…
-Twenty-one is crazy,

-You know, and…
-Twenty-one?

That's high for a whole game.

It's high, but it's also credit to OKC.

Those guys, man,
they're unbelievably athletic

and handsy and all that stuff,

but I think Rick's been unbelievable
and just stayed even-keel.

What am I gonna get outta lambasting,

you guys have earned my trust.
Let's keep playing.

-It's four series in a row.
-That's when you know

-you got a good team.
-Four series in row.

They've come back from, like,
historic deficits to winning.

I love that mental fortitude as a team.
They are mentally strong.

They're disciplined on what they wanna do,

and they're gonna live
and die on who they are.

-[LeBron] Mm-hmm.
-They not making no changes.

-I respect that as a team.
-That's a good team.

-They don't get bogged down.
-No.

Like, sometimes in the playoffs,
things get tight,

you start to slow down,
start thinking too much.

-They just keep playing.
-Give my respect to 'em.

[theme music plays]

One thing that I want to ask you about
is like how you found basketball

and like, how did it take hold of you?

Like, how old were you?
What was going on? Where was it?

That's a great question.
I think about that all the time.

I was about eight years old.

My mom signed me up for a rec center.

She wanted me and my
brother to get out the house.

It wasn't to play ball,
it wasn't to do anything…

Just after school.

It was like, "Y'all been in the house
for seven years

under me and your grandma.
Y'all need to leave."

So, about eight years old,
we went to a rec center

about 10 minutes from our crib.

We walked in there,
it was nothing but kids playing

and hooping and
running up and down the court.

And I was like,
"I wanna join in with them."

And it was just
so much fun that first day,

and I wanted to come back,
and I kept coming back every day.

And when you see that ball go through
the rim, it's a satisfying feeling.

For the first time, I felt like
I was doing something right.

When the ball hit the
rim or go through the rim.

So I just love that feeling,
and I just kept coming back.

And then I had some great
influence at the rec center.

Older guys who taught me how to play,

who put me on the team for the first time,

just encouraged me all the time.

-You know, it was just big brothers.
-Right.

Figures to me early on.
So that just built my love

and the camaraderie that
came with the game of basketball.

It was built from there.
So I wanna say like eight or nine,

I really fell in love with
the process of basketball.

Getting in the car, going to the gym,
putting my stuff on,

working out,
talking to my teammates, you know,

after practice, all of that stuff.

Just, you know, became a part of me.

So from eight, nine, ten,
you were working on your game.

-I was dreaming about being in the NBA.
-I wanna get better. Really?

-I wanna play in the league…
-Yeah. Like I remember seeing that's,

I mean that's when we
first got dial-up internet,

like when I was nine, 10 years old.

So I'm on nba.com a lot
around that time when I'm 10.

And you know, I'm looking up,
Vince Carter is my favorite,

'cause he's dunking so much.

And he showed, you know,
enthusiasm at early, you know,

in his early in his career.

So I, you know, was attracted
to what he was doing.

And so I just kept researching on nba.com,

trying to find anything inside stuff.

And I was just looking for stuff that was
basketball at the highest level.

And that's what the love built.

And then I just like, I wanna do that.

Told my moms that at nine
and just started training.

I was training before that, you know,

fundamentally, working on my left hand,
right hand, jump shot stuff.

But my training just became, uh, you know,

the regimen became, you know…

-Intentional.
-[Kevin] Yeah.

Just what I was, yeah,

I could tell box jumps, running up hills,

duck walks, you know,
shooting 200 shots a day.

My mom and my trainer, who's my godfather,

who's my coach, like somebody I really
hung out with before all of this,

he started to get upset
with me in workouts.

So I just start seeing
everybody's vibe change around me.

So mine just changed, and I became
more focused on wanting

to be the best player I could be.

That's interesting, because you could
go two ways at that age.

-You can say, "This is a lot."
-Too much. Yeah.

-You kind of embraced it, in a way.
-I enjoyed it.

I felt, like, from like six to seven,

eight years old,
I was outside running around, though,

-so I understood my body.
-[Steve] Yeah.

-I knew what I could do.
-Playing football, playing tag,

Yeah, exactly. Jumping rope,
I was riding my bike,

just doing anything
outside up until, you know,

so I just think all that,
it just all hit at like one point.

Just having so much fun with my friends,

and I was using my body
and finding out new things.

I could run fast, I could jump,
I could touch the backboard.

I didn't know I could do that.

So you just get more
enlightened as a human being.

-Yeah. Inspired you.
-Yeah, it just inspired me

to be out there and I just…

I think that's just what's keeping me
going today, to be honest.

I think you mentioned your godfather,

but like him, maybe others, who are like…

maybe Wanda, who was
your like key believers?

I think everyone needs
someone that's like,

"You can do this, you're great."

Obviously, it's always gonna be your moms,
but it is like I tune her out

-at a certain point.
-[Steve] Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?
So it was for sure, you know,

when I look back on it, I for sure
appreciated my mom telling me

that I was gonna be great.

But I always knew that
of course, she gonna say that.

[all laugh]

She was calling me handsome
when I was going to school.

-And they was like, "Nah."
-[all laugh]

You know what I'm saying?

-So I'm like, "I understand."
-I can relate to that one.

I get that, you know.

So I was looking for some validation
from my coaches,

my teammates, to just be like,

"You nice," Or somebody be like,

"We want to pick KD on my team,"
you know, outside.

So my friends started to knock on my door,
"Can K come play today?"

That's how I started
to feel confident in myself.

And then my coaches was continuing
to work with me every day.

So they… It's easy. I seen them say,

"Nah, this kid trash,
don't bring him back tomorrow."

But they kept inviting me back.
So, my confidence…

[LeBron] You knew something was there.

Yeah. I knew something was up.

-Older kids. Validating you.
-Yeah. Exactly.

So everybody around me kind of understood
what this was before me.

You know, so, and I started

to become more enlightened,
opened my eyes to what this is

-as 10, 11, 12, 13.
-[LeBron] Yeah.

And I just hit the ground running.

You walk in the gym,
kids happy to see you.

-Yeah.
-Happy to see… "K back."

-Let's play right now.
-[LeBron] Yeah. Right.

So I love that camaraderie, man.

I was just grateful to have a rec center
in my neighborhood that

provided a space for the kids,
you know what I'm saying?

And I was grateful, because
most of my friends come from hooping.

Most of the people
I've met come from hooping.

I traveled this world because of that.

So everything just stemmed back to,

I just enjoy being in that gym.

That community was perfect for me.

We spent a lot of time together,

pre-Golden State, Golden State, Brooklyn.

Like, you have an obsessive
work ethic around your routine

and, like, staying sharp
and trying to get better.

-The seeds of that was built then?
-Yeah.

That wasn't something that like, you know…

You should have saw him this past summer,

last summer,
when he couldn't work out here,

'cause his calf wasn't right.
He was sitting on the sidelines.

-Shooting in the chair.
-Literally wanted to cry.

-It was--
-He was so upset, he couldn't like…

first couple weeks, he couldn't do nothing

besides get up and just like…

As soon as we got in the gym,
we had picture day.

He didn't even get dressed,
didn't put his uniform on.

Went straight out to just start like,

pissed like he for sure,
you just, it's energy.

Yeah, man, it's… I don't know.
It's that kid-like trait.

I mean, we all had obsessive…
As a kid, you played

with the same toy for a month sometimes,

you know what I'm saying?
You did the same stuff.

I just think I keep that kid-like
energy in me, you know,

and I'm up, and that's
what comes from, you know,

enjoying what you do,
wanting to be great at what you do.

We all, we, us three, we understand

what that's like being
in the league for so long.

Being at that level, having that standard
that you hold yourself to.

You gotta be obsessed. I'm sorry.

-I mean…
-[LeBron] Selfish.

It's something that,
it is like it's traits

that you gotta acquire
as a human being in order

-for you to maintain what you got.
-[Steve] Right.

And obsession is one of it.

And we look at that, and we frown upon
that as human beings about stuff.

But if you really,
truly wanna be great at basketball,

I'm telling you now,
somebody who's done it,

I don't wanna speak for y'all,
but I kind of understand y'all.

But you have to be obsessed with wanting

-to get better every day.
-[Steve] Right.

And it's like, if you
don't think that way,

if you don't act that way,
then just that simple,

you're not gonna be great at it.

And so I understood that early,
and like I said,

and also just love doing
it and having fun doing it.

And that's the reason
why I am why I am today.

It's interesting. Like, we all share
that obsessiveness about it,

but like for kids out there,
I think it's important for them.

It's not just doing it every day.

Like, we sat down, Bron pours the wine.

you're like, "Yeah, I got my work in."
Like, it's on your mind.

Like, you'd be anxious if you
hadn't gone to the gym yet.

-You'd be like… [groaning]
-[Kevin] Yeah.

Like, so one. Two, like you, all of us,

when we get down to business,
when we're in our routine,

we're doing our work, there's a standard.

Like, we're not just there to…
If coach said make 200 shots,

it's 200 game-speed pressure on the line,
day after day after day.

Just kids, they have to understand,
it's not just the volume.

It's not just the consistency.
It's the approach.

-[Kevin] Exactly.
-And also they, they'll don't,

they'll learn that as well over time.

-It is not gonna happen day one.
-[Kevin] I agree.

To the kids out there.

They'll learn how to train the right way.

They'll learn how they can get
the most outta their training,

how to get the most outta their workouts.

And then, like K said,
he started to feel his body change.

He started to feel, "I know you know
that I can do this a little bit more now.

I can get to this spot
a little bit more now,

because I'm a little stronger now.
I'm faster now."

Even at 10, 11, 12 years old, you know,

and I look at it…
I obviously I've had my two boys

that play basketball, whatever.

And my daughter's
playing volleyball right now.

She's 10, and she's
playing 12U volleyball.

So you could just see the difference.

Just in like two years,
it could be 18 months.

You see the difference… Shorter.

-Six months, nine months.
-Not as fast, can't jump as high.

So like, as those things continue
to mold and get better,

and you start seeing your body transition,
and you start, the only thing

that matters the most early on
is that you want to do it

and you got to love to do it.

-Love.
-You gotta love it.

'Cause that's gonna keep you coming back.
The body's gonna do what it's gonna do.

You're gonna go to sleep one day and
wake up, and your knee gonna be hurting.

-Right.
-[Kevin laughs]

You like, "What the hell is going on?"

You gonna wake up one day…

and you gonna say something to your mom,
and your voice gonna be deeper.

-People were like, "Oh, shit."
-Yeah, yeah.

-Shit happens fast.
-It happens like that.

But you're right, though. It's the love.

Like, you can't live without
it right now, right?

Like, I've had to move on.

It's hard. Right?

It's hard. You're not too far away.

You're not too far away.

Like, you guys now have
a immediacy with that.

You know that you
gotta make the most outta this.

You've seen there, been there and done it.

Like that all starts with love.

-Yeah, for sure.
-And it's gonna stay there with love.

You know? 'Cause we can easily
get jaded by the business

of basketball, and the responsibility

that comes with being the breadwinner
in some of our families.

It's a lot that comes with being
an NBA player that we don't discuss a lot.

It's like that unsaid thing.

But we deal with a lot as human beings
and as basketball players.

But when you get on that basketball court,

-that is like your…
-Sanctuary, man.

Yeah. You can't let that get affected

by all of the… that comes with life.

So once you keep that sacred,

-and that takes some time…
-Yeah. Yeah.

…for people to understand
how sacred that is.

Like, I'm not coming here to interview
with y'all if I ain't work out today.

I'm not gonna change my workout.

I love you and Bron,
but I'm not changing…

They definitely told me
K can only do after 2:30.

I'm like, "I work out at 7:00 AM.

"I gotta wait till 2:30 to see this…?"

It's like, I would,

I just can't compromise that,

-you know what I'm saying?
-[Steve] Yeah.

At this point.

-A hundred percent.
-And I think that's what we,

we all get to once we love something.

Do you think another driving factor
in our careers right now,

is, um… others who had the talent,

and others who had the same opportunity

to make the most of it
in their later careers?

-Yeah.
-Like people that we

grew up watching, people that, you know,

that you felt like

"Damn, I wonder if they worked hard.

I wonder if they really put
the time into it."

A thousand percent.

To now, you look back, you're like,

sometimes, I'll go back and look at
certain players back in the day.

I'm like, "Damn, he only played 11 years?"

-Yeah.
-Or "He only played eight years?"

Like I, you know, and when you young,
you don't, you don't really know,

-but it's like…
-Nah, you're right.

I mean, you definitely look at, I mean,

'cause you not looking at the guys
that come before you as examples…

-And good or bad. Correct.
-Yeah.

You know, good or bad,
then you're not going, you know,

it's hard for you
to be ready for what's ahead.

Like, I've seen guys, that, you know,
you guys, you drove me every day.

Goin' and watch your games,
watch your bar scores.

I'm like, alright,
if he on that level, I could,

"Why can't I try to be
at that same level, too?"

So that drive. But then you look at guys

who didn't necessarily pan out,

and you know their situation,
and you want to avoid that, too.

So yeah, all of that stuff plays a factor.

-Yeah.
-But it is not just

one or two or three things
that make you a good player.

Things you have to do to be
a great basketball player.

It's so much you gotta retain
and understand in order for you

to get the full potential outta yourself.

And the research is
a big part, in my opinion,

of becoming a great basketball player,

who you, who you listening to
talk the game,

what you watching, how you watching it,
how you watching the film.

-Mm-hmm.
-Are you researching old players

and see what they did to understand
the foundation they laid down for you?

Are you being real with yourself?

Are you being real with yourself
when you watch film?

Are you holding yourself
accountable after games,

right after the game?

So it's a lot of stuff
you gotta ask yourself.

And you gotta recommit, too, to this game.

Just like you sign a new contract
every time you get better as a player.

I truly feel that you gotta recommit
and sign that contract with yourself

every so often, and be like,
"Alright, yeah, I'm 10, 12 years in,

and I got four MVPs
and four championships."

Like, "But do I still,
I wanna do this shit?"

Mm-hmm.

-You know what I'm saying?
-You know how hard it is.

Some people say,
"I wanna go play baseball."

[everyone laughs]

-Right?
-Yeah. Yeah.

And then want to come back.
Or some people say,

"I'm gonna go 22 straight."
You know what I'm saying?

So it's a contract
I feel like you got to have

with yourself, too,
in order for you to be a…

-Yeah.
-great ball player.

Or to have a long career.

That's the goal,
to be in the league for 20 years.

I tell you, that's the goal.

However you want to get there,
but you gotta recommit to yourself

before you commit to anything else.

That's interesting.

All that's a factor,
seeing what other people did,

seeing maybe,
they didn't fulfill their potential,

they didn't keep going as
long as they could've.

But it starts with love, that passion…

-Yeah, for sure.
-for what you do every day.

That ain't enough.
Seeing what other people did or didn't do.

-It's about you at the end of the day.
-Yeah.

You can't just chase other people.
You gotta run your own race.

You gotta be deeply inside it
and engineer that thing.

-Drive your own bus.
-Mm-hmm.

I was gonna say,
at this stage, when you're like,

"What is…" 'cause I asked
you this the first episode,

"What does success look like for you
the rest of your career?"

How do you approach it?

-For me, it's just…
-New year, coming into 19?

-[Kevin] Nineteen.
-Yeah, 19.

It's just about, for me,
it's just about being in it every day.

And when I mean "in it,"

it just like, every detail,
I gotta, I gotta be like,

if my coaches need
to ask me about anything,

no matter, you know,
I gotta be ready for--

if I gotta jump in a drill first,
to demonstrate the drill.

If I gotta be, you know,

play a whole scrimmage and practice,
even though, you know, 35, 36,

I don't want to, I gotta
set that example of like,

no matter how old I am,

that I'm still trying
to be great every day.

That there's a standard.

That's really what I'm in it for,

is just continue to live
up to that every day.

Rather shoot around practice or a game.

And I think it's, I love
living up to that standard.

Similar, he was process over,

you know, the process,
trying to be great every day,

and like leaving
an example for other players.

And if you do that,
then win, lose, or draw,

shit, I mean, we get
frustrated with losses,

-Mm-hmm.
-been to the mountaintop before.

We want to get back there.

But you sleep better

than the contrary,
if you wasn't doing the other shit.

-[Kevin] For sure.
-And you lose.

You're like, "Oh, I just cheated
a season away."

-Yeah.
-"I just cheated a week away."

-"I just cheated a day away." For what?
-[Steve] Right.

'Cause at the end of the day,

this game where we're playing,
the basketball game, the life game,

whatever the case may be,
the game in general,

it's not a dress rehearsal.

It is right now.

-We live.
-Mm-hmm.

-We live, baby.
-Yeah.

And let's, we gotta get to it.
We gotta make the most of it.

-When you're that person,
-Right.

When you have the "it" factor,
it's not a dress rehearsal for you.

You're not allowed
to have a dress rehearsal.

-[Kevin] No.
-The others do.

-Gotta be on every day.
-You gotta be on.

And that's, and that's the beauty of being
given that much responsibility,

that you gotta be on every day.

It's easy when you get two days a week

-where you gotta be that guy.
-[Steve] Right.

But you challenge yourself.

You reach different
heights as a human being.

I think this game…

of course you wanna be
great at playing basketball,

but it's so many life
lessons within the game

that enlighten you just on everything.

So if you not open-minded
to that part of it, too,

not just being a highly
touted great player,

everybody love you,
and you got the most points,

and you got the accolades.

But do you actually truly care about

coming in every day and being the best
that you can be as an individual?

And it may not be just shooting the ball,
putting it in the basket.

It may be your influence,
what you say to your teammates,

how you're encouraging
your coaching staff.

You know, how you, how coachable
you are as an individual.

You know what I'm saying?

All of that stuff I try
to stay conscious of,

because I know the heavy
influence that I have,

being a veteran in the league,

accomplished so much into the league
just walking into any gym,

-Yeah.
-it could, it can, yeah,

-people are tense, just you know.
-Yeah, sure.

You gotta make sure
they're comfortable, too.

So I try to come into the gym
and make sure I'm locked in

on being a team player.

You know? True and true.

You guys are approaching it right,
'cause there's someone who's already

gone over the other side.
There's a lot of reward in life.

There's a lot of things to enjoy
to challenge yourself with,

but, like, this is special.

Like, it's hard to replicate this
once it's done.

Yeah, you have family,
or you have new interests, endeavors.

But to be the best in the world,
or thereabouts at something,

and to fight for it every day,

and have that passion
to want to get up and do it,

-and think about it going to bed…
-There's nothing like it.

There's nothing like it.
And when it's gone, it's,

like, you guys will both do great things
when you're done playing.

You're both already, shit, you know,

incredible at business, at life.

Once you're done playing,
you're done playing.

-[LeBron] For sure.
-That never comes back.

So getting every drop out of it,

one, I think, is the right approach.

Two, it makes it okay when it's over.

-Yeah. Yeah.
-Mm-hmm.

-It makes it okay.
-For sure.

I can't wait to hold up
the sign with my grandkids

that I scored 101 points
in the game before.

[everyone laughs]

-It's coming.
-For sure.

Matter of fact,
we should take it right now

-so I can just…
-A meme.

-I can hold it up, and...
-What, they not gonna believe you?

-Right.
-[everyone laughs]

-Right. That's what I'm saying.
-Just a hundred?

Right. I'll be, I'll pass Kobe.

[theme music plays]

Something else I wanna ask you about is,

here you are with still
this incredible passion,

incredible efficiency.

Still, you tore an Achilles
like later in your career.

-I forgot about that.
-Forgot about it, that's crazy.

-Right.
-In your thirties,

you tore an Achilles, recovered,
still incredible player.

-We right now, Dame and… JT.
-JT, yeah.

Are going through that.
Two great players, you know,

obviously Dame's in his thirties,
JT's in his 20s.

Like maybe talk a little bit,
like talk to camera. JT…

No, but you know what I mean?

Talk a little bit about
like what that took

and what these guys have in front of,

'cause 25 years ago,
maybe 15, 25 ago that you,

I don't know that you could…

I mean, even when I had it,

-I felt like that's…
-Is this it?

Because it was always like, for us,

I mentioned, like, for basketball
players, that injury,

that's is the worst thing you know,

for football players, a concussion
you don't wanna get,

like, you like, "Man, a concussion."

If you get too many of those, it's over.
They trying to keep you out.

And for us, an Achilles is like the,
you know, something that's…

Nah, that's man,

It was-- it was a grind.

And of course, you know, JT
and Dame, you know, hit me up.

I felt like I'm the Achilles guy.

-But who you are.
-[Kevin] Yeah.

Like everybody up when they
had their Achilles and…

Yeah. I mean a lot of guys,
I feel like a lot of guys

have bounced back and
became themselves again.

Mine, I'm just, I mean, mine's
is the most, you know, popular.

But I feel like a lot of guys

have bounced back that
I took inspiration from

when I was going through my journey.

But those guys are cut
from a cloth that, you know…

How they got here.

Yeah. It's rare.
They're rare individuals, anyway.

So this is just a little stoppage
in their journey that they just

gonna have to sit down and lock in on.

And it is easy.
I think it'll be easy for them

to lock in on once they truly grasp that

like, I'm gonna be out for a year.

And I think that takes,
initially, a few weeks

for you to truly understand.

It's probably their first time
in their whole lives.

They gotta sit down and not play…

-They can't, you physically can't play.
-[LeBron] Yeah.

That's probably the first time
that they had to go through that.

And that's just a… you can either
elevate or drown, in my opinion.

And I think both of those dudes
have shown you time

and time again that they
gonna continue to elevate.

As individuals and as players.

-But it's a grind, man.
-[LeBron] It's a grind.

You seen me every day.

-I was grumpy.
-Even when you were back.

The amount of work you have to do,
make sure it does today…

-You still have to rehab.
-[Steve] Yeah.

I'm still doing some of this stuff
that I was doing in that rehab.

So it's gonna be a… your game
and your body is gonna for sure change.

'Cause I, and I'm
telling people with Dame,

he shoot a lot of those deep threes,

when you tear your Achilles,

-your calf muscle…
-Atrophy.

…goes to nothing.

You sit around for three months,
and you can't move your calf.

'Cause if you look at mine's now,

I wish I could show people,
my right is smaller than my left.

But that's from not using it
for those four or five months.

-[LeBron] Just shut down.
-It completely shut down.

-So that's most of the work.
-[LeBron] Right.

Is getting that calve back to that.

You gotta get it bigger and stronger.

So I think that's gonna be
the adjustment for them.

And those deep threes that
both of those guys shoot,

they shoot a lot
of tough step-back threes.

I think that's, and I was shooting those

before, you know, I got injured,
and I fine-tune my game

to take some of that stuff out,
the sidestep…

Just, not because I, it's a bash.

'Cause I didn't truly have enough power

in my right leg yet, in order
for me to do those moves.

So it's going to be
that type of adjustment

for guys coming back from Achilles

is just building that power up.

-But once you get confidence…
-[LeBron] For sure.

'Cause I just threw myself out there, too.
As I can hoop, I was playing.

So, once they just throw themselves
out there, they'll be alright.

-I can't wait to see him bounce back.
-The overcoming is great.

'Cause the whole time you're like,
"Am I coming back?"

-[LeBron] Exactly.
-There's anxiety, there's doubt.

You're fighting every day to overcome it.

You come back, you succeeded.
I get it. Amazing.

We take it for granted. Really.

Even when I coached,
I took it for granted,

'cause you were playing so well,
moving well, like what you'd been through.

But what did that time…
Did that time off change you at all?

Like, open your mind to stuff?

It did open my mind to just
the anatomy of human body,

you know, just learning
my body, understanding,

you know, power transfer

or you know, which…

[Steve] Movement patterns.

Yeah, movement patterns and,
you know, different ways

to work on muscles in the weight room

that allow me to be at my best.

What exercises is tailored
to my game, specifically.

I started learning more about that stuff,

which, you know, made my workout regimen

just even more detailed
and routine, and you know,

so, before that, I was in the weight room
a lot and working on my body,

but it was no real intentional
purpose when I went in there.

Now, it's just like, I know exactly what…

-Super specific.
-Yeah.

Way more specific on what
I'm doing in the weight room.

And I think that's the reason majority

of the reason why I was able
to bounce back the way I did.

When you think back
to our time in Brooklyn,

what do you think of?

Him stepping on that damn
three-point line.

-[Steve chuckles]
-We had this conversation.

That's one of them.

-Stumbled on that…
-Man… I can't get away from it, too,

because they going to repost that
and tag me in that.

[LeBron and Steve chuckle]

But we had this conversation in Portland,

I think, right before a game.

And I'm like, "Who am I spending
my next five years with?"

I had just signed that deal.

You guy just signed the deal.

But I feel like we were secure,

but everything else around us
was going to shit.

Not in a bad way.

We got GMs going to other teams.

We got coaches going to other teams.

We got players forcing trades.

We got bringing Ben Simmons, he's back.

Like, it was just so much…

-Stuff going on…
-bullshit around us.

I feel like we were
locked in on the same page

and understanding like, well we trying
to do something special here,

but and I felt like
your hands were tied a lot,

because as a coach,
you gotta deal with so much.

I didn't get to coach
as much as I wanted to.

That's what it was.
I didn't think, we didn't get…

the full Steve Nash like I wanted,

like you probably wanted,
I just felt like it was just too much,

too many distractions in a way.

And you can't win that way.

But I felt like we
had great intentions, though.

I felt like we... we cared enough.

I felt like every day, we were trying
to push towards winning the champ.

It was a great vibe in there.
It was some of the best times…

that's why I signed that deal,

that first year, man, most fun ball I had.

Some of the most fun ball
I had planned my whole life.

I enjoyed it. I enjoyed Brooklyn a lot.

I love playing for Brooklyn. But so much…

-Stuff happened.
-around the guys

that were committed to the situation.

It felt like we were committed,
but everybody else wasn't.

It just was weird.

I felt, sometimes, I feel
like I let you let you guys down in a way.

And then I think about
everything that happened.

-Come on, man, that shit was…
-You know, like

we had a three-star roster, you know,

the cap, his team three stars,
played 16 games together.

We balled out every game
we played together.

You know, that's one, you know,
you could go down the list

and add all these, things and for me,
I end up feeling like I'm making excuses.

Reality is, from my perspective,

I felt a little bit like
I let everyone down,

but then I realized
there was so much that,

I just wish I had more of a chance
to develop as a coach.

I think so, too.

I just think your hands
were tied too many times.

You had to be a super…

a principal, more so than anything.

[all laugh]

You know what I'm saying?
Like, you just couldn't like,

inject your basketball,
you know what I'm saying?

Just everything that you have.

Basketball, I didn't feel
like you could inject

that into everybody in the way that you,
we all envisioned…

just because of the distractions.
COVID, injuries… More than anything,

-I think it's injuries.
-[Steve] For sure.

I feel like we had a chance
to win that first year.

But we were injured.
James shouldn't have been playing.

He was on one leg. Kyrie was out.

Jeff Green was in and out.

-Yeah.
-[Steve] He played…

So I think more than anything,
I think we had a great chance to win.

And that year, I stepped on the line,
but yeah, it was just…

-[Steve] It's life.
-Some shit happens that way, man.

-Like…
-[Steve] Right.

I don't think that should
be an indictment on anybody.

-People don't understand context, though.
-[Steve] Right.

What truly happens and how you need
to really be connected as a group.

Like, they just looked at the names

and thought it was going…
supposed to be perfect.

And people always, like, think
like you said, "without context."

But also, they want
to come in over the top

and say, "They didn't do it,
they didn't do this, they didn't do that."

I think for guys like that go every day,

like, even our approach
to our routines, it's war.

-[LeBron] Every day.
-We're not afraid to lose.

Yeah.

You know what mean?
So when we lose, it doesn't work out.

We're not at home and everyone's like,

"You know, they're killing."
We don't think about that. Right?

We think about like, "Take it in the chin.
Let's get ready for whatever's next."

We going putting our boots
back on the next year.

Like, that's always been a mentality.

But you know, the dialogue
around the league,

the discourse around the league,

they don't truly appreciate the journey,
sometimes, of what goes on.

Even the ones that don't work out.

You can still see some beauty in the
Sacramento Kings that didn't win the chip.

Or your Phoenix Suns
that didn't win the championship.

Like, it is, if you really
love the game of basketball,

you can pull great things
from all of that stuff.

And that's what I tend to do

with that Brooklyn situation is,
we had some fun times,

we had some terrible
times, but that's life.

Like, that's what makes
you a better human being.

But for the most, I mean,
if I'm being honest,

we had more good times
than not, even the times when

it was me and four, two-way.

-Like, it was fun to me,
-Fun. We were successful.

Like, we locked in as a family,
just us for that little 48 minutes.

And like a lot of those games

were like, you know, high-pressure games,
late games.

I'm sure those, you know,
even me I learned from,

but those young guys
took a lot from that, too.

So I look at the season like that a lot.

Of course, we wanna win

-and go to the chip.
-[LeBron] Facts.

But it's little small moments that I
can appreciate throughout the year,

even though we don't add up to winning.

And a lot of people don't understand that.
But we still...

But shit is in our DNA and our blood.

Like we look at the game
of ball like that.

I mean, it ended up not being a success.

-But it's a great experience.
-Man, come on now.

-Great experience.
-That's all It's about.

[theme music plays]

Cut us off before we go for another…

-Right. Right.
-Yeah.

-I mean, I come back part two.
-Yeah.

[Mav] We got plenty of stuff now.

I think you have to be
coming back for part three.

Yeah, we got two of 'em for sure.

We gotta watch some film next time.

-[all applauding]
-Thank you.

[Mav] I want this on the record.

The only, you forgot

to mention the only
member of the 55-40-90 club.

-Yeah, 55.
-I created that quote.

-That's what I'm saying.
-[LeBron] 55.

We know we ain't gotta put that on.

[Steve] Meant to say that.

Thanks for bringing it up.

And that was 50 from the…

[cameraman] Can we get a photo
of you guys little tighter?

Like, sitting or sitting or…

[cameraman] Standing is fine.
Whatever you prefer.

-[producer] Standing is fine.
-You're in the middle.

-You talking about…
-No, bro.

No, you're the guest.
This is your episode, man.

[LeBron] Y'all fighting,
y'all still fighting.

[all laugh]