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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:03,295 -[JJ] All right, we're at 2.47? -[man] 2.47. 2 00:00:03,379 --> 00:00:04,714 Yep. 3 00:00:04,797 --> 00:00:06,048 We're all good, baby. 4 00:00:06,799 --> 00:00:08,509 How is it? How we looking? 5 00:00:08,592 --> 00:00:09,593 Make my mom proud? 6 00:00:09,677 --> 00:00:10,720 Yep. 7 00:00:11,929 --> 00:00:13,097 Yep. 8 00:00:25,401 --> 00:00:28,779 Welcome to episode five of Mind the Game 9 00:00:28,863 --> 00:00:30,698 with LeBron James and JJ Reddick, 10 00:00:30,781 --> 00:00:35,536 brought to you by Uninterrupted and 342 Productions. 11 00:00:35,619 --> 00:00:37,872 Today's episode is a very special episode. 12 00:00:37,955 --> 00:00:39,832 It's a two-part episode. 13 00:00:39,915 --> 00:00:44,128 LeBron and I lay the groundwork for the NBA playoffs, 14 00:00:44,211 --> 00:00:45,880 what makes them different, 15 00:00:45,963 --> 00:00:50,092 what the experience is like as a player going through it. 16 00:00:50,176 --> 00:00:52,219 And we are also joined 17 00:00:52,303 --> 00:00:55,473 by LeBron James' high school basketball coach, 18 00:00:55,556 --> 00:00:57,308 Coach Keith Dambrot. 19 00:00:57,391 --> 00:01:03,481 Coach Dambrot coached for 40 years at the college and high school level. 20 00:01:03,564 --> 00:01:08,569 He was the head coach at Central Michigan, Akron, and of course, his latest stop, 21 00:01:08,652 --> 00:01:12,114 Duquesne, where they made the NCAA tournament 22 00:01:12,198 --> 00:01:14,408 and won their first-round game. 23 00:01:14,492 --> 00:01:16,911 Coach Dambrot is now retiring. 24 00:01:16,994 --> 00:01:20,039 Just a fascinating conversation we have with him. 25 00:01:20,122 --> 00:01:22,583 Again, this show is about basketball 26 00:01:22,666 --> 00:01:26,003 and we're going to cover all aspects of basketball, 27 00:01:26,086 --> 00:01:32,051 uh, including college, high school, youth development, FIBA, the WNBA. 28 00:01:32,134 --> 00:01:35,846 I know we spoke at length last week 29 00:01:35,930 --> 00:01:39,350 about the icons in women's college basketball. 30 00:01:39,433 --> 00:01:44,146 So, awesome to get Coach Keith Dambrot's experience, 31 00:01:44,230 --> 00:01:48,317 expertise, and insight, uh, through his lens. 32 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,445 And of course, through his lens, what it was like 33 00:01:51,529 --> 00:01:56,075 to coach a freshman and sophomore LeBron James in high school. 34 00:01:56,158 --> 00:02:02,248 There are a few different concepts that we talk about in episode five. 35 00:02:02,331 --> 00:02:07,044 Perhaps most importantly is something called top-locking. 36 00:02:07,127 --> 00:02:08,796 And I want to be very clear on this. 37 00:02:08,879 --> 00:02:14,426 'Cause there tends to be some confusion, particularly from Jason Gallagher. 38 00:02:14,510 --> 00:02:17,304 It is not top-blocking. 39 00:02:17,388 --> 00:02:19,890 It is top-locking. 40 00:02:19,974 --> 00:02:24,687 Top-locking is an off-the-ball defensive scheme 41 00:02:24,770 --> 00:02:28,399 where you force the shooter, the offensive player, 42 00:02:28,482 --> 00:02:31,151 coming off of a wide pin down, 43 00:02:31,235 --> 00:02:36,574 or at any sort of off-ball screen and you force him towards the basket. 44 00:02:36,657 --> 00:02:39,535 You get on his high side or his top side. 45 00:02:39,618 --> 00:02:42,955 And you force him back towards the basket or the baseline. 46 00:02:43,038 --> 00:02:46,375 All right, let's say the ball is right here. 47 00:02:47,459 --> 00:02:48,544 Defender there. 48 00:02:48,627 --> 00:02:51,255 Let's say there is a shooter in the corner. 49 00:02:51,338 --> 00:02:55,593 And there is a big guy that's going to screen away for the shooter. 50 00:02:56,218 --> 00:02:58,137 As he comes down to screen, 51 00:02:59,221 --> 00:03:02,182 this big would drop to protect the basket. 52 00:03:02,266 --> 00:03:05,769 And a top-lock is simply when the shooter's man 53 00:03:05,853 --> 00:03:08,314 gets all the way on the outside 54 00:03:08,397 --> 00:03:11,191 forcing him back towards the basket. 55 00:03:11,859 --> 00:03:15,696 The protection, again, comes from this big, 56 00:03:15,779 --> 00:03:19,617 or whoever is guarding the screener, who drops back. 57 00:03:19,700 --> 00:03:23,454 Again, top-locking, not top-blocking. 58 00:03:23,537 --> 00:03:25,414 Oh, real quick, on the top-locking thing, 59 00:03:25,497 --> 00:03:29,043 which, again, this is a little bit of a cheat code for the Boston Celtics. 60 00:03:29,126 --> 00:03:35,132 Let's say that this is Kristaps Porziņģis, and let's say this is Jaylen Brown. 61 00:03:35,215 --> 00:03:37,509 At any point in time, if Kristaps Porziņģis goes 62 00:03:37,593 --> 00:03:40,846 to set an away screen on Jaylen Brown, 63 00:03:40,930 --> 00:03:43,724 and Jaylen Brown's defender gets into a top-lock, 64 00:03:43,807 --> 00:03:48,312 and Kristaps Porziņģis' defender drops back to provide support, 65 00:03:49,146 --> 00:03:51,649 Jaylen Brown can just go set a screen right here, 66 00:03:51,732 --> 00:03:56,028 and you've got Kristaps Porziņģis popping into space for an open three. 67 00:03:56,111 --> 00:03:58,447 That's sort of the counter if you have a shooting big. 68 00:03:58,530 --> 00:04:01,492 Also, similar to top-locking, 69 00:04:01,575 --> 00:04:07,081 another concept that comes up in the conversation is icing or downing. 70 00:04:07,164 --> 00:04:09,833 Icing or downing a pick-and-roll 71 00:04:09,917 --> 00:04:13,504 is when the defender guarding a ball handler 72 00:04:13,587 --> 00:04:15,506 on a side pick-and-roll 73 00:04:15,589 --> 00:04:19,009 gets again on the high side or the top side 74 00:04:19,093 --> 00:04:21,553 and forces it towards the baseline. 75 00:04:21,637 --> 00:04:26,308 The big man who is covering the screener drops back towards the baseline, 76 00:04:26,392 --> 00:04:31,522 towards the basket, to give support to the defender on the ball handler. 77 00:04:31,605 --> 00:04:35,859 Again, the defender on the ball handler has completely opened up, 78 00:04:35,943 --> 00:04:38,445 gotten on the ball handler's top side, 79 00:04:38,529 --> 00:04:41,949 and is forcing the ball down towards the baseline. 80 00:04:42,032 --> 00:04:45,452 We've got two offensive players here. 81 00:04:46,203 --> 00:04:50,290 The screener goes into a pick-and-roll over here on the side of the court. 82 00:04:51,125 --> 00:04:52,668 As that's happening, 83 00:04:52,751 --> 00:04:57,756 the big defender would shout, "Ice," or "Downs." 84 00:04:57,840 --> 00:05:01,719 Again, some teams have color concepts for this, but ice or down, 85 00:05:01,802 --> 00:05:04,388 he would then drop to provide support, 86 00:05:04,471 --> 00:05:09,977 and the guy guarding the ball would jump on the high side of the offensive player, 87 00:05:10,060 --> 00:05:13,772 of the ball handler, and force it down towards the baseline. 88 00:05:13,856 --> 00:05:15,733 That is an ice… 89 00:05:17,526 --> 00:05:19,278 or down. 90 00:05:19,361 --> 00:05:20,529 Motion offense. 91 00:05:20,612 --> 00:05:26,285 Motion offense is simply a five-man offensive scheme 92 00:05:26,368 --> 00:05:32,791 that relies on screening action, ball movement, and body movement. 93 00:05:32,875 --> 00:05:35,544 Motion offense, typically, is very free flowing. 94 00:05:35,627 --> 00:05:39,631 There's not a set action that leads to another action, 95 00:05:39,715 --> 00:05:41,300 at least that's how I was taught it. 96 00:05:41,383 --> 00:05:45,929 Motion offense just means you're running pin downs, away screens, 97 00:05:46,013 --> 00:05:48,265 you're moving the ball side to side. 98 00:05:48,348 --> 00:05:50,142 Again, you're just in motion. 99 00:05:50,225 --> 00:05:52,394 You know how I was taught motion offense? 100 00:05:52,478 --> 00:05:55,189 It was three out, two in. 101 00:05:55,272 --> 00:05:59,109 So three offensive players outside the three-point line 102 00:05:59,193 --> 00:06:03,238 and two offensive players inside the three-point line. 103 00:06:03,322 --> 00:06:06,658 And again, motion offense could be any one of these options. 104 00:06:06,742 --> 00:06:11,288 You pass to the wing, and you go screen away and replace. 105 00:06:11,371 --> 00:06:14,541 As that's happening, maybe you get a cross screen here 106 00:06:14,625 --> 00:06:15,918 and you replace. 107 00:06:16,001 --> 00:06:17,461 Let's say none of that works. 108 00:06:17,544 --> 00:06:19,922 Ball was over here on the right side. 109 00:06:20,005 --> 00:06:21,715 Ball goes back to the top of the key. 110 00:06:22,508 --> 00:06:25,844 Again, motion offense, let's say you can run a pin down here, 111 00:06:25,928 --> 00:06:27,221 run a pin down here. 112 00:06:27,930 --> 00:06:29,556 That's just motion offense, 113 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:34,728 is ball, body movement, pin downs, away screens, cross screens. 114 00:06:34,812 --> 00:06:35,979 Motion offense. 115 00:06:36,063 --> 00:06:38,607 Flex offense is another offense we talk about. 116 00:06:38,690 --> 00:06:45,197 Flex offense, very simply, is a half-court offensive scheme 117 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:49,201 that relies on a baseline screen and then a pin down. 118 00:06:49,284 --> 00:06:52,496 And that is a continuous offense. 119 00:06:52,579 --> 00:06:55,833 Uh, a lot of high school teams run it. College teams still run it. 120 00:06:55,916 --> 00:06:58,919 I remember Boston College, when we played them and I was at Duke, 121 00:06:59,002 --> 00:07:02,840 Coach Al Skinner, that is literally all they ran offensively 122 00:07:02,923 --> 00:07:04,466 was the flex offense. 123 00:07:04,550 --> 00:07:07,803 Gary Williams in Maryland also ran the flex offense a ton. 124 00:07:07,886 --> 00:07:10,639 This is just a basic flex offense. 125 00:07:10,722 --> 00:07:13,934 So you'll have five offensive players. 126 00:07:14,017 --> 00:07:17,855 And a lot of times, a ball handler will enter it this way. 127 00:07:17,938 --> 00:07:20,190 He would pass… 128 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:26,071 to one of the men up top and make some sort of cut 129 00:07:26,155 --> 00:07:27,656 off the other high guy. 130 00:07:28,699 --> 00:07:33,453 Once that happens, we are in a flex alignment. 131 00:07:33,537 --> 00:07:40,294 And this, all it is, is a baseline screen looking for a layup into a pin down. 132 00:07:40,377 --> 00:07:44,173 And again, once you pin down, you go back out to the corner, 133 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:46,341 and this can be continuous. 134 00:07:46,425 --> 00:07:48,427 Baseline cut, pin down. 135 00:07:49,178 --> 00:07:51,138 Some teams that still run this, 136 00:07:52,181 --> 00:07:54,516 once this first pin down happens, 137 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,311 a lot of times, this is a big, this is a guard. 138 00:07:57,394 --> 00:08:00,480 He would then just come back and set a high pick-and-roll, 139 00:08:00,564 --> 00:08:02,149 and you play out of that. 140 00:08:02,232 --> 00:08:04,651 So you can run flex to get into other actions, 141 00:08:04,735 --> 00:08:06,778 or you can make flex continuous. 142 00:08:06,862 --> 00:08:10,032 As always, thank you for listening and watching the Mind the Game podcast 143 00:08:10,115 --> 00:08:12,075 with LeBron James and JJ Reddick. 144 00:08:12,159 --> 00:08:14,786 If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button, 145 00:08:14,870 --> 00:08:18,540 go follow us on whatever audio platform you listen to us on. 146 00:08:18,624 --> 00:08:22,211 Thank you for all of the support. Thank you for all the feedback. 147 00:08:22,294 --> 00:08:24,046 Thank you for all the discussion points. 148 00:08:24,129 --> 00:08:27,591 And my new favorite thing, my new favorite thing 149 00:08:27,674 --> 00:08:31,261 from Mind the Game podcast is when I'm watching a game, 150 00:08:32,095 --> 00:08:34,014 and I happen to be on my Twitter account, 151 00:08:34,681 --> 00:08:37,684 and one of you guys points out a slot cut. 152 00:08:38,310 --> 00:08:40,229 One of you guys points out one of the actions 153 00:08:40,312 --> 00:08:41,939 we talk about on the podcast. 154 00:08:42,022 --> 00:08:44,274 Uh, pretty awesome for us. 155 00:08:44,358 --> 00:08:45,776 So, appreciate y'all. 156 00:08:45,859 --> 00:08:48,987 And this is episode five of Mind the Game. 157 00:08:59,915 --> 00:09:04,378 All right. End game. Game two. One of your most iconic shots. 158 00:09:05,587 --> 00:09:06,713 [LeBron] What game? 159 00:09:06,797 --> 00:09:08,799 [JJ] Game two, 2009 conference finals. 160 00:09:08,882 --> 00:09:11,051 [LeBron] Oh, yeah. Orlando. 161 00:09:11,969 --> 00:09:13,595 I have a question about that play. 162 00:09:14,429 --> 00:09:16,431 'Cause that is an example of a, you know, 163 00:09:16,515 --> 00:09:19,059 off-ball movement, catch-and-shoot three. 164 00:09:19,142 --> 00:09:20,143 Yep. 165 00:09:20,227 --> 00:09:22,896 So, if I remember correctly… 166 00:09:23,981 --> 00:09:26,400 uh, Mo was taking it out. 167 00:09:26,483 --> 00:09:27,484 [LeBron] Yep. 168 00:09:28,235 --> 00:09:33,240 Delonte set like a flare screen for Ilgauskas. 169 00:09:33,323 --> 00:09:36,076 -Yep. -Right, right here. 170 00:09:36,159 --> 00:09:38,996 I think it was Pavlovic just kind of ran to the ball. 171 00:09:39,079 --> 00:09:41,331 -[LeBron] Yep. -And you were over here on this elbow. 172 00:09:41,415 --> 00:09:43,333 You actually never got a screen on that play. 173 00:09:43,417 --> 00:09:44,751 No, 'cause I was supposed to… 174 00:09:44,835 --> 00:09:48,338 The play was for to fake up and go backdoor for the lob. 175 00:09:48,422 --> 00:09:51,675 And Turk played it, and Turk played it perfectly. 176 00:09:51,758 --> 00:09:54,177 -Okay. -So I faked up. 177 00:09:54,261 --> 00:09:57,597 And I tried to go back for the lob, and I said, "It's not open." 178 00:09:58,598 --> 00:09:59,599 It's not open. 179 00:10:00,309 --> 00:10:02,269 So I just came to the ball. 180 00:10:02,352 --> 00:10:04,604 -And Turk fucked that up. -Yeah. 181 00:10:04,688 --> 00:10:06,356 My only issue on that play. 182 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,360 I didn't even see Rashard. He had a hell of a contest. 183 00:10:10,444 --> 00:10:12,237 -[JJ] Yes. -He was guarding the ball. 184 00:10:12,321 --> 00:10:14,573 -He was guarding Mo, yeah. -He was guarding the ball. 185 00:10:14,656 --> 00:10:17,117 I didn't see it until after the fact. I never saw him. 186 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:18,869 -I never saw him. -You only saw Turk. 187 00:10:18,952 --> 00:10:19,953 Only saw Turk. 188 00:10:22,372 --> 00:10:25,083 Do you remember… Do you remember your first playoff game? 189 00:10:25,959 --> 00:10:28,045 My first playoff game… 190 00:10:29,004 --> 00:10:30,005 I do. 191 00:10:30,672 --> 00:10:32,049 What do you remember about it? 192 00:10:33,425 --> 00:10:35,177 I was nervous as fuck. 193 00:10:35,260 --> 00:10:36,261 That's what I remember. 194 00:10:36,345 --> 00:10:38,263 -This was third year? -This was third year. 195 00:10:38,347 --> 00:10:40,307 -Third year. -Yeah. And I don't know… 196 00:10:40,390 --> 00:10:42,768 We can look it up and figure out when was the last time 197 00:10:42,851 --> 00:10:44,311 the Cavs were in the postseason. 198 00:10:45,228 --> 00:10:47,397 But that was just like, my first year, okay, 199 00:10:47,481 --> 00:10:49,816 I was establishing myself in my first year. 200 00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:53,487 Second year, we missed the playoffs by maybe one or two games. 201 00:10:53,570 --> 00:10:56,907 And it's like, "Okay, I'm here to, like, play ball, 202 00:10:56,990 --> 00:10:58,825 but I want to make the next step." 203 00:10:58,909 --> 00:11:01,578 I got to get this franchise to the postseason. 204 00:11:01,661 --> 00:11:04,164 And my third year, we finally made the postseason, 205 00:11:04,247 --> 00:11:07,459 and we-- our first game was against Washington at home. 206 00:11:07,542 --> 00:11:10,253 I was nervous as hell. 207 00:11:10,337 --> 00:11:14,883 My stomach was hurting all goddamn long, 208 00:11:14,966 --> 00:11:18,595 all day until, literally until the ball jump. 209 00:11:18,678 --> 00:11:21,598 Why do you think… Like, what have you reflected on that? 210 00:11:21,681 --> 00:11:25,018 Why do you think you were more nervous for that game 211 00:11:25,102 --> 00:11:26,311 than any other game? 212 00:11:27,145 --> 00:11:29,648 Well, it was two games. My first ever game in Sacramento. 213 00:11:29,731 --> 00:11:32,234 And then I didn't want to fucking lay an egg. 214 00:11:33,819 --> 00:11:35,737 -Obviously, everybody was watching. -Hold on. 215 00:11:35,821 --> 00:11:38,615 This is not a narrative podcast. I just want to be clear on this. 216 00:11:38,698 --> 00:11:41,993 But I think what you're admitting here is that you felt the burden. 217 00:11:42,077 --> 00:11:43,829 -You felt the pressure. -Yeah, for sure. 218 00:11:43,912 --> 00:11:46,081 Yeah. Pressure. Who's under more pressure? 219 00:11:46,164 --> 00:11:48,166 Yeah, who is it? What's the pressure? What is pressure? 220 00:11:48,250 --> 00:11:52,045 No, I didn't want to lay an egg, man. I was, what, 20? 20 years old? 221 00:11:52,129 --> 00:11:53,630 Got the team to the postseason. 222 00:11:54,423 --> 00:11:56,425 I didn't want to go out there and shit the bed. 223 00:11:56,508 --> 00:11:59,261 I was maybe 21, maybe. But, like, I didn't want to shit the bed. 224 00:11:59,344 --> 00:12:01,972 First playoff game, you know, look out, there's Gilbert Arenas 225 00:12:02,055 --> 00:12:04,558 and Antawn Jamison and Caron Butler and those guys. 226 00:12:04,641 --> 00:12:07,310 They were playing great ball that year. 227 00:12:07,394 --> 00:12:09,020 We're inexperienced as hell. 228 00:12:10,856 --> 00:12:12,232 I didn't want to lay an egg. 229 00:12:13,775 --> 00:12:14,776 What did you have? 230 00:12:15,569 --> 00:12:16,945 32-11-11. 231 00:12:17,821 --> 00:12:19,406 [laughing] 232 00:12:21,241 --> 00:12:23,160 -I laid an egg all right. -Oh, man. 233 00:12:23,243 --> 00:12:24,494 In their locker room. 234 00:12:24,578 --> 00:12:27,247 Yeah, I think… Don't quote me on this. 235 00:12:27,330 --> 00:12:32,627 I think it was like 35-7-6 or 35-7-7 or something. 236 00:12:32,711 --> 00:12:34,880 -Well, for the whole series? -For the whole series. 237 00:12:34,963 --> 00:12:36,089 -Yeah. -Oh, shit. 238 00:12:36,173 --> 00:12:37,507 -Not bad. -Yeah, not bad. 239 00:12:37,591 --> 00:12:39,009 Not bad for the first one. 240 00:12:39,092 --> 00:12:43,805 You've played in, uh… a ton of playoff games, obviously. 241 00:12:43,889 --> 00:12:45,557 -You've won championships. -Mm-hmm. 242 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:46,641 Um… 243 00:12:48,268 --> 00:12:49,811 There's a lot that's different… 244 00:12:50,812 --> 00:12:53,023 about the playoffs and the regular season. 245 00:12:54,149 --> 00:12:57,986 What is it? What is different… about the playoffs? 246 00:12:58,069 --> 00:13:00,197 In general or for me? 247 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:01,323 -In general. -In general. 248 00:13:01,406 --> 00:13:02,991 We'll get to you specifically. 249 00:13:03,074 --> 00:13:06,286 In general, um, as you know, 250 00:13:06,369 --> 00:13:09,122 as you've played in a lot of postseason games too, 251 00:13:09,206 --> 00:13:11,458 one possession can lose you the series. 252 00:13:14,044 --> 00:13:19,424 And compared to the regular season, you can get away with some slippage. 253 00:13:20,091 --> 00:13:22,302 You can get away. It's four or five nights. 254 00:13:22,385 --> 00:13:23,887 You're fucking tired. 255 00:13:23,970 --> 00:13:27,516 You know, it's a cold-ass Tuesday night in Milwaukee. 256 00:13:28,391 --> 00:13:31,269 You know, you're like, "Holy shit, not this Milwaukee team." 257 00:13:31,353 --> 00:13:33,605 I mean, obviously, you get up for those guys, but… 258 00:13:35,690 --> 00:13:37,067 in the postseason… 259 00:13:38,235 --> 00:13:40,570 one bad stretch, 260 00:13:41,696 --> 00:13:44,366 it could be a fucking 6-0 run. 261 00:13:44,449 --> 00:13:46,284 It could be a turnover here. 262 00:13:46,368 --> 00:13:47,536 It could be… 263 00:13:48,995 --> 00:13:54,042 you didn't top-lock JJ when we told you we top-locking him all series 264 00:13:54,125 --> 00:13:55,794 and now he done seen one go in. 265 00:13:57,921 --> 00:13:58,922 Even if you… 266 00:13:59,005 --> 00:14:03,051 There's times where you know you can win a playoff game… 267 00:14:04,719 --> 00:14:06,846 and because the way you finished the game, 268 00:14:07,847 --> 00:14:09,599 you already lost the second one. 269 00:14:11,393 --> 00:14:14,062 You done let-- you done let that fucking guy or that person 270 00:14:14,145 --> 00:14:17,440 get into a rhythm in the fourth quarter 271 00:14:17,524 --> 00:14:21,611 because you decided you didn't want to lock in for eight to nine more minutes. 272 00:14:21,695 --> 00:14:24,823 And, yes, we won the game. But now, we may lose the war. 273 00:14:24,906 --> 00:14:26,074 Yeah. 274 00:14:27,492 --> 00:14:29,911 The mental side of the playoffs, by the way. 275 00:14:29,995 --> 00:14:30,996 Thank you. Yeah. 276 00:14:31,079 --> 00:14:32,289 Particularly… 277 00:14:33,498 --> 00:14:36,084 uh, against a really good opponent. 278 00:14:36,167 --> 00:14:38,253 -Yeah. -I think it was in episode one. 279 00:14:38,336 --> 00:14:42,716 You said, "The further you go into playoffs, to win, 280 00:14:42,799 --> 00:14:44,259 you have to be a high-IQ team." 281 00:14:44,342 --> 00:14:45,677 Yep. 282 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,053 It's, uh… 283 00:14:48,722 --> 00:14:51,766 it's obviously emotionally draining. 284 00:14:51,850 --> 00:14:52,851 Mm-hmm. 285 00:14:52,934 --> 00:14:56,771 Because of the… There is pressure. 286 00:14:56,855 --> 00:14:58,189 It's different. 287 00:14:58,273 --> 00:15:01,151 -You feel more with each win and loss. -Mm-hmm. 288 00:15:01,234 --> 00:15:02,986 You get to two losses in a series. 289 00:15:03,069 --> 00:15:06,031 You get to three losses in a series, an elimination game. 290 00:15:06,114 --> 00:15:08,992 You're down 3-2, you've got to go on the road to San Antonio. 291 00:15:09,075 --> 00:15:10,660 They won the championship last year. 292 00:15:10,744 --> 00:15:14,205 You've got to muster up enough to beat them to get back home. 293 00:15:14,289 --> 00:15:17,250 That emotional toll is a lot. The physical toll, of course, playing. 294 00:15:17,334 --> 00:15:19,753 To me, like, the mental side of it, 295 00:15:19,836 --> 00:15:22,422 I think that is a huge separator, 296 00:15:22,505 --> 00:15:26,801 because, oftentimes, mental mistakes within a game… 297 00:15:28,053 --> 00:15:30,221 can lead to a series loss. 298 00:15:30,305 --> 00:15:31,681 For sure. 299 00:15:31,765 --> 00:15:33,224 I think about one I made. 300 00:15:35,060 --> 00:15:37,103 I was in Orlando. 301 00:15:37,187 --> 00:15:39,731 We were playing in the conference finals against Boston, 302 00:15:39,814 --> 00:15:41,691 and I had played a good game. 303 00:15:41,775 --> 00:15:43,818 And there was a timeout. 304 00:15:44,903 --> 00:15:46,863 Let's say there was 29 seconds. 305 00:15:46,946 --> 00:15:51,117 There was a five or six-second difference between shot clock and game clock. 306 00:15:51,201 --> 00:15:53,078 And go to the timeout… 307 00:15:53,161 --> 00:15:54,954 I know we have a timeout. 308 00:15:55,038 --> 00:15:56,289 I know we have a timeout. 309 00:15:57,165 --> 00:15:58,750 We get the stop. 310 00:15:58,833 --> 00:15:59,959 I get the rebound. 311 00:16:00,043 --> 00:16:01,503 -[LeBron] You dribble? -First… No. 312 00:16:01,586 --> 00:16:03,380 -First I looked at Stan. -Mm-hmm. 313 00:16:03,463 --> 00:16:05,173 And I'm not saying it was his fault. 314 00:16:05,256 --> 00:16:06,883 I looked-- I knew there was a timeout. 315 00:16:06,966 --> 00:16:09,135 I knew I was, I should have called a timeout. 316 00:16:09,219 --> 00:16:12,806 And I looked at him and he didn't do anything. 317 00:16:12,889 --> 00:16:16,893 So then I just instinctively put the ball on the floor and then he called a timeout. 318 00:16:16,976 --> 00:16:19,729 -Yeah. Now you can't advance the ball. -Now we got three seconds. 319 00:16:19,813 --> 00:16:22,607 We've got to take it out three-quarter court opposite foul line. 320 00:16:22,691 --> 00:16:24,693 -And we didn't get a good shot off. -Mm-hmm. 321 00:16:24,776 --> 00:16:26,152 Now, we were down. 322 00:16:26,236 --> 00:16:28,613 I don't know that we win anyways, 323 00:16:28,697 --> 00:16:31,449 but that's an example of, like, a mental mistake. 324 00:16:31,533 --> 00:16:32,951 I'll give you another one. 325 00:16:33,034 --> 00:16:35,328 And this one has bothered me… 326 00:16:35,412 --> 00:16:37,288 for four years. 327 00:16:37,372 --> 00:16:39,624 And I'm not throwing this guy under the bus 328 00:16:39,708 --> 00:16:42,085 'cause I think his intention was right. 329 00:16:43,420 --> 00:16:47,590 Um, 2020 playoffs conference finals. 330 00:16:47,674 --> 00:16:49,718 You guys are up 1-0 on Denver. 331 00:16:50,885 --> 00:16:52,679 And you're down at the end of the game. 332 00:16:52,762 --> 00:16:54,681 You've got the ball underneath the basket. 333 00:16:54,764 --> 00:16:57,267 -Yep. -Mason Plumlee checks in the game. 334 00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:58,643 -Yep. -To guard Anthony Davis. 335 00:16:58,727 --> 00:16:59,728 Yep. 336 00:16:59,811 --> 00:17:01,229 You were on the left elbow. 337 00:17:01,312 --> 00:17:03,356 Anthony Davis is on the right elbow. 338 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,859 Danny Green makes some cut or whatever. 339 00:17:05,942 --> 00:17:07,736 And Anthony Davis runs to the left wing. 340 00:17:07,819 --> 00:17:09,112 You never set a pick. 341 00:17:09,195 --> 00:17:13,408 In fact, your back was turned to Anthony Davis and Mason Plumlee. 342 00:17:13,491 --> 00:17:16,828 [LeBron] Correct. 'Cause I was just looking at 'Do, like, "Give me the ball." 343 00:17:16,911 --> 00:17:18,037 [JJ] I know. 344 00:17:18,121 --> 00:17:21,040 -And Mason Plumlee point switched. -[LeBron] Yeah, point switched. 345 00:17:21,124 --> 00:17:23,251 And Anthony Davis hit the game-winning three. 346 00:17:23,334 --> 00:17:24,836 Now you're down 2-0. 347 00:17:25,587 --> 00:17:30,091 Like that stuff, the little tiny plays… 348 00:17:30,175 --> 00:17:32,218 It's weird 'cause in the playoffs, I would say… 349 00:17:34,262 --> 00:17:36,598 the little plays get amplified more. 350 00:17:36,681 --> 00:17:37,974 -Does that make sense? -Yep. 351 00:17:38,892 --> 00:17:41,811 Versus a regular season, you go through 82 games, 352 00:17:41,895 --> 00:17:43,646 it doesn't feel the same way. 353 00:17:43,730 --> 00:17:44,731 Yeah. 354 00:17:44,814 --> 00:17:48,109 That's why my body language is so bad throughout the regular season. 355 00:17:48,193 --> 00:17:50,779 'Cause I'm trying to gear them up for the postseason 'cause… 356 00:17:52,113 --> 00:17:54,866 Don't understand. Some guys don't understand. Like, it's... 357 00:17:56,201 --> 00:17:59,496 One play, like you saying, one play can be the difference 358 00:17:59,579 --> 00:18:02,791 between your ass going home and going to Cabo or Cancun 359 00:18:02,874 --> 00:18:04,292 or wherever the hell you going. 360 00:18:06,211 --> 00:18:09,547 Or going to Disneyland or Disney World with the trophy in your hand. 361 00:18:10,507 --> 00:18:14,385 Do you think the… the sort of game within the game… 362 00:18:16,095 --> 00:18:18,348 of coaches is different? 363 00:18:19,516 --> 00:18:21,351 -Meaning? -Like, I don't know… 364 00:18:21,434 --> 00:18:26,022 Bob Myers maybe didn't originate this but I know that he said it at some point. 365 00:18:26,105 --> 00:18:30,360 There are 82 game players and then there's 16 game players, right? 366 00:18:30,443 --> 00:18:34,030 Do you think that in some ways there are regular season, like, 367 00:18:34,113 --> 00:18:37,784 good regular season coaches versus good playoff coaches? 368 00:18:37,867 --> 00:18:40,495 Like, how much does coaching matter 369 00:18:40,578 --> 00:18:42,163 in the NBA in the playoffs? 370 00:18:42,247 --> 00:18:43,456 It matters a lot. 371 00:18:44,749 --> 00:18:45,750 Preparation. 372 00:18:46,543 --> 00:18:50,755 Prep. How much prep are you getting going into a series to win? 373 00:18:52,215 --> 00:18:54,467 You get out there and… 374 00:18:55,468 --> 00:18:56,719 you kind of ready for… 375 00:18:57,929 --> 00:18:59,472 everything that's going to be thrown at you. 376 00:18:59,556 --> 00:19:01,182 And, obviously, everybody makes adjustments 377 00:19:01,266 --> 00:19:03,476 and then you got the great players that don't matter 378 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,562 what type of fucking game plan you got on them, 379 00:19:05,645 --> 00:19:07,063 they're going to exploit it no matter what, 380 00:19:07,146 --> 00:19:11,943 but as much as you can be prepared going out for a series… 381 00:19:12,026 --> 00:19:13,528 And you know, changes… 382 00:19:13,611 --> 00:19:16,072 You know, like, game one is kind of like the filler game, 383 00:19:16,155 --> 00:19:18,074 you know, you almost, like, tell your players 384 00:19:18,157 --> 00:19:19,659 "Just go out and just fucking play." 385 00:19:19,742 --> 00:19:21,411 Just go out and play game one. 386 00:19:21,494 --> 00:19:23,830 Don't think too much 'cause if you start thinking too much, 387 00:19:23,913 --> 00:19:27,083 now you can't even just like be... can't even just be a player no more 388 00:19:27,166 --> 00:19:28,960 'cause now you're just trying to think the game, 389 00:19:29,043 --> 00:19:32,881 but me, personally, I want overload. 390 00:19:32,964 --> 00:19:34,424 -You want overload. -I want overload. 391 00:19:34,507 --> 00:19:38,219 I want all the information, everything, everybody, every individual, 392 00:19:39,137 --> 00:19:40,388 every pros and cons. 393 00:19:40,471 --> 00:19:43,266 And I don't do that throughout the 82-game regular season. 394 00:19:43,349 --> 00:19:46,477 I don't have the time to do that. I don't have the time. 395 00:19:46,561 --> 00:19:49,981 The league has changed a lot with practice time, 396 00:19:50,899 --> 00:19:53,943 shoot-around time, amount of time you spend in the film room. 397 00:19:54,027 --> 00:19:55,320 -It just has. -Yeah, it has. 398 00:19:55,403 --> 00:19:58,031 And you know, I was fortunate. 399 00:19:58,114 --> 00:20:00,450 I would say fortunate five of my first six years, 400 00:20:00,533 --> 00:20:01,576 I played for Stan. 401 00:20:01,659 --> 00:20:04,454 I also played for him my, you know, my last year in New Orleans. 402 00:20:05,705 --> 00:20:08,333 When you talk about the preparation, it was interesting to me 403 00:20:08,416 --> 00:20:11,628 that he prepared for a regular season game 404 00:20:11,711 --> 00:20:13,755 the same way he prepared for a postseason game. 405 00:20:14,339 --> 00:20:16,382 So we're in shoot-around for an hour and a half. 406 00:20:16,466 --> 00:20:18,301 We got knee pads on, we're going live. 407 00:20:18,384 --> 00:20:21,054 He would-- I remember at the end of shoot-arounds, he'd be like, 408 00:20:21,137 --> 00:20:24,724 "All right, these guys haven't run this play in five games. 409 00:20:24,807 --> 00:20:27,143 This is an ATO, but they haven't run it in five years. 410 00:20:27,226 --> 00:20:29,771 I want to be prepared for it. Let's go through it. 411 00:20:29,854 --> 00:20:31,564 You guys didn't do it right. Let's go through it again." 412 00:20:31,648 --> 00:20:33,483 -That's the Rouse tree. -A hundred percent. 413 00:20:33,566 --> 00:20:35,443 That's the Rouse tree. Suppose the same way. 414 00:20:35,526 --> 00:20:39,238 So when we got-- But my point is, when we got to the playoffs, 415 00:20:39,322 --> 00:20:40,615 it didn't feel any different. 416 00:20:40,698 --> 00:20:43,201 -Right, 'cause you-- -When we were prepping for a playoff. 417 00:20:43,284 --> 00:20:46,496 Yeah, for sure. That's just suppose the same way. That's the Rouse tree. 418 00:20:46,579 --> 00:20:48,456 You know, you come from that Pat Riley tree. 419 00:20:48,539 --> 00:20:52,001 That's just you prepare every day like it's your last, for sure. 420 00:20:52,627 --> 00:20:54,921 You mentioned the word "exploitation" again. 421 00:20:55,004 --> 00:20:57,006 [laughing] 422 00:20:58,716 --> 00:20:59,842 How much… 423 00:21:00,718 --> 00:21:06,975 mental energy in a playoff series, playoff game, 424 00:21:07,058 --> 00:21:11,187 are you spending on exploitation, how to exploit the other team? 425 00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:13,523 -You personally. -Forty-eight minutes. 426 00:21:14,107 --> 00:21:15,108 Yeah. 427 00:21:15,191 --> 00:21:18,569 And if we need 53 or 58, 428 00:21:18,653 --> 00:21:19,779 the whole game. 429 00:21:20,571 --> 00:21:23,241 How can you… 'Cause I'm trying to generate easy buckets. 430 00:21:24,117 --> 00:21:27,495 Easy buckets and I want to get my guys in a rhythm 431 00:21:27,578 --> 00:21:33,584 and how can we exploit the matchups and the players that's on the floor? 432 00:21:35,211 --> 00:21:38,047 Sometimes, I get a little disrespectful to it as well. 433 00:21:38,131 --> 00:21:39,632 Certain guys come on the floor, 434 00:21:39,716 --> 00:21:42,969 I'll say it right on the free throw line while we shooting a free throw, 435 00:21:43,052 --> 00:21:44,345 they're shooting a free throw. 436 00:21:46,139 --> 00:21:47,849 Yo, we putting him into action. 437 00:21:48,599 --> 00:21:50,184 Thumb down him. 438 00:21:50,268 --> 00:21:51,644 Yeah. 439 00:21:52,729 --> 00:21:57,859 I want him to know that like, you know, we're going at him. 440 00:21:59,569 --> 00:22:00,611 In the postseason. 441 00:22:00,695 --> 00:22:03,197 I'm glad I never played against you in the postseason. 442 00:22:04,073 --> 00:22:07,243 -Well, I guess I did. Nine minutes-- -Nine minutes, game two. 443 00:22:07,326 --> 00:22:08,661 2009. 444 00:22:08,745 --> 00:22:09,912 Um… 445 00:22:10,705 --> 00:22:17,420 I think the other thing for me in playing and in watching is, 446 00:22:18,463 --> 00:22:21,466 can you create good offense down the stretch? 447 00:22:21,549 --> 00:22:24,719 That's true, of course, in any basketball game. 448 00:22:24,802 --> 00:22:28,931 I think it's harder and harder the further you go in the playoffs. 449 00:22:30,016 --> 00:22:32,393 Yeah, it is. I mean, obviously, the... 450 00:22:33,686 --> 00:22:35,521 the IQ, which I always come to, 451 00:22:35,605 --> 00:22:38,524 the IQ from the coaches to the players heighten 452 00:22:38,608 --> 00:22:41,444 and get better as you go on and on and on and on, 453 00:22:42,487 --> 00:22:45,698 and once the players get better too as well, 454 00:22:46,532 --> 00:22:48,618 I feel like being able to execute… 455 00:22:49,619 --> 00:22:53,539 Certain guys are able to execute better 456 00:22:53,623 --> 00:22:56,542 than others and teams or whatever the case may be… 457 00:22:57,835 --> 00:23:02,090 because nothing bothers them in the pressure moments. 458 00:23:02,965 --> 00:23:05,635 -Sometimes, the lights are too bright. -Yeah. 459 00:23:05,718 --> 00:23:07,136 For certain individuals. 460 00:23:08,221 --> 00:23:09,680 -And that's-- -I-I would… 461 00:23:10,723 --> 00:23:12,100 I would say this though. 462 00:23:12,183 --> 00:23:13,351 Here's the thing. 463 00:23:13,434 --> 00:23:15,144 That's a fair point. Not disagreeing. 464 00:23:15,853 --> 00:23:17,772 Not disagreeing. 465 00:23:17,855 --> 00:23:19,273 For my career, 466 00:23:19,357 --> 00:23:23,152 I think I shot 41% in the regular season from three. 467 00:23:23,236 --> 00:23:25,905 For my career in the playoffs, I think I shot over 37%. 468 00:23:25,988 --> 00:23:27,657 Yeah, but that's not because of the pressure. 469 00:23:27,740 --> 00:23:29,367 No, no, no, but… Hold on. 470 00:23:30,660 --> 00:23:34,413 Oftentimes, our opinion on things are shaped by our own experience. 471 00:23:34,497 --> 00:23:36,040 -Is that fair? -That's fair. 472 00:23:36,124 --> 00:23:37,792 You and I have had different experiences as basketball players. 473 00:23:37,875 --> 00:23:40,128 Let me hear your experience. 474 00:23:40,211 --> 00:23:44,298 So, later on in my career, once, 475 00:23:44,382 --> 00:23:47,885 pretty much once I got to L.A. and was, like, a starter 476 00:23:47,969 --> 00:23:50,388 and third or fourth option on offense. 477 00:23:51,430 --> 00:23:54,600 You get to the playoffs, they treat you like a first option. 478 00:23:54,684 --> 00:23:55,977 Yeah, for sure. 479 00:23:56,060 --> 00:23:57,687 -Do you know what I mean by that? -Yeah. 480 00:23:57,770 --> 00:24:00,565 They've come up with a very specific game plan. 481 00:24:00,648 --> 00:24:03,901 This same team for game one, game two, game three… 482 00:24:03,985 --> 00:24:05,361 -Through game seven. -Yeah. 483 00:24:05,444 --> 00:24:07,697 They've come up with a specific game plan for you. 484 00:24:07,780 --> 00:24:09,824 So Utah Jazz, 2017. 485 00:24:09,907 --> 00:24:13,161 We are going to top-lock him as soon as he crosses half-court. 486 00:24:14,162 --> 00:24:16,038 I mean, Doc Rivers said to me after game one, 487 00:24:16,122 --> 00:24:17,623 he said, "This is not your series. 488 00:24:17,707 --> 00:24:19,542 I need you to stand in the corner," right? 489 00:24:19,625 --> 00:24:22,170 I had a terrible series, it's the worst series 490 00:24:22,253 --> 00:24:27,175 in my, like… playing career when I was actually a player. 491 00:24:27,258 --> 00:24:30,428 Not like a bench guy, but like… It was the worst series of my career. 492 00:24:30,511 --> 00:24:32,013 He's like, "You got to go stand in the corner. 493 00:24:32,096 --> 00:24:34,640 They're literally... we're playing four on four without you." 494 00:24:34,724 --> 00:24:37,935 I'm like, "All right," right? The closeouts… 495 00:24:38,019 --> 00:24:41,397 So if I do create separation or if you do make a mistake in the kick, 496 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,357 the closeouts are different in the playoffs. 497 00:24:43,441 --> 00:24:44,483 Yes. 498 00:24:44,567 --> 00:24:49,030 So my catch-and-shoot time to get a clean release is different. 499 00:24:50,031 --> 00:24:51,282 I'm not making excuses. 500 00:24:51,365 --> 00:24:53,492 -I'm just telling you… -It is the truth. 501 00:24:53,576 --> 00:24:54,744 …what I experienced. 502 00:24:54,827 --> 00:24:57,163 So do you think because of that… 503 00:24:58,039 --> 00:24:59,498 37% is not horrible. 504 00:24:59,582 --> 00:25:01,334 -No, hell no. -It's not good for me. 505 00:25:01,417 --> 00:25:03,711 -I mean, for you… -It's terrible, it's terrible. 506 00:25:03,794 --> 00:25:05,087 It's terrible for you. 507 00:25:05,171 --> 00:25:06,756 -Yeah, it's terrible for you. -It's terrible. 508 00:25:06,839 --> 00:25:09,050 I mean, for the average guy, and they were fucking… 509 00:25:09,133 --> 00:25:11,719 -I'm embarrassed. -They might get a max contract over that. 510 00:25:11,802 --> 00:25:13,262 For you, you should, yeah… 511 00:25:13,346 --> 00:25:17,016 But that's why I-I believe certain guys once the postseason start 512 00:25:17,099 --> 00:25:21,145 because they've been guarded a certain way 513 00:25:21,229 --> 00:25:26,400 for, what, September to mid-April a certain way. 514 00:25:26,484 --> 00:25:29,278 You know, you have certain games that gets, you know, 515 00:25:29,362 --> 00:25:31,781 circled on the calendar that certain coaches get up for, 516 00:25:31,864 --> 00:25:34,575 certain players get up for, but at the end of the day… 517 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,537 you've been guarded a certain way, 518 00:25:38,621 --> 00:25:40,748 and then, in the postseason, like you said, 519 00:25:40,831 --> 00:25:42,500 the closeouts are different. 520 00:25:43,793 --> 00:25:46,629 The preparation is different. Guys-- Guys are… 521 00:25:48,256 --> 00:25:50,716 They're not allowing you 522 00:25:51,717 --> 00:25:55,096 to do what you do best because, at the end of the day, 523 00:25:55,179 --> 00:25:57,265 if certain guys get off on a team… 524 00:25:58,599 --> 00:26:00,559 you're definitely going to lose. 525 00:26:02,228 --> 00:26:03,813 If I'm playing the Clippers, you got… 526 00:26:03,896 --> 00:26:06,482 Okay, you got to deal with Blake and his points in the paint 527 00:26:06,565 --> 00:26:08,943 and his rolls and his pocket passes from CP. 528 00:26:09,026 --> 00:26:10,695 You got to deal with CP. 529 00:26:10,778 --> 00:26:12,822 You got to deal with Jamal coming off the bench 530 00:26:12,905 --> 00:26:14,573 and doing what he does off the bench. 531 00:26:16,325 --> 00:26:20,329 If we allow JJ to get five or six threes, the series is over. 532 00:26:21,163 --> 00:26:23,165 If you shoot-- If you're getting five or… 533 00:26:23,249 --> 00:26:26,877 Not… Fuck making five or six threes. 534 00:26:26,961 --> 00:26:29,547 If JJ shooting five or six threes, we're going to lose. 535 00:26:29,630 --> 00:26:33,134 Yeah. The Spurs series in '15. 536 00:26:33,217 --> 00:26:36,178 I remember, dude… Right, we come out game one… 537 00:26:36,262 --> 00:26:38,180 We're in L.A., we've got the three seed, 538 00:26:38,264 --> 00:26:40,891 they got six seed, even though we had the same amount of wins 539 00:26:40,975 --> 00:26:44,061 and Kawhi's guarding me. 540 00:26:47,690 --> 00:26:51,193 And I'm like, what did I do… What did I do to deserve this? 541 00:26:51,277 --> 00:26:53,529 What did I do to deserve this? 542 00:26:53,612 --> 00:26:55,072 [LeBron] Why are you guarding me? 543 00:26:55,156 --> 00:26:57,533 [JJ] And for, I don't remember, maybe the first four or five games of the season, 544 00:26:57,616 --> 00:27:00,077 he started on me, Danny started on CP. 545 00:27:00,161 --> 00:27:02,621 Then they switched that in game six. I think it was game… 546 00:27:02,705 --> 00:27:04,707 I know game seven, Danny was on me. 547 00:27:04,790 --> 00:27:08,252 Um, and at the end of the series, we win. 548 00:27:08,336 --> 00:27:10,046 And like, I didn't have a great series, 549 00:27:10,129 --> 00:27:12,465 but I had big moments in the series, you know, 550 00:27:12,548 --> 00:27:15,092 and at the end of the series, Chip Engelland came up to me. 551 00:27:15,176 --> 00:27:17,428 He's like, "Man, our entire thing was like we gotta-- 552 00:27:17,511 --> 00:27:20,348 We can't allow you to get off. We threw the kitchen sink to you." 553 00:27:20,431 --> 00:27:21,724 I wasn't even a part of that. 554 00:27:21,807 --> 00:27:23,476 I've seen Pop in the postseason. 555 00:27:23,559 --> 00:27:26,645 I played against him multiple times in finals appearances. 556 00:27:26,729 --> 00:27:30,232 There was one time where we're assum… The… 557 00:27:30,316 --> 00:27:31,817 He called a timeout. 558 00:27:33,361 --> 00:27:37,907 With like 11 minutes and 52 seconds left in the first quarter. 559 00:27:39,825 --> 00:27:42,036 'Cause a guy on our team got off of three. 560 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:43,120 Yeah. 561 00:27:43,704 --> 00:27:45,915 I don't even know if they made the damn three. 562 00:27:45,998 --> 00:27:47,625 But he called a timeout right away. 563 00:27:47,708 --> 00:27:49,126 [whistles] Got on Danny Green. 564 00:27:49,210 --> 00:27:50,878 What the fuck, Danny Green? 565 00:27:50,961 --> 00:27:52,880 Got on his ass, took him out, 566 00:27:52,963 --> 00:27:54,006 brought him back in. 567 00:27:54,090 --> 00:27:56,634 But obviously they had something in place and then they executed. 568 00:27:56,717 --> 00:27:57,718 Yeah. 569 00:27:58,344 --> 00:28:01,055 Um, two last things… 570 00:28:01,138 --> 00:28:03,516 Points I want to make on the playoff or one last point, 571 00:28:03,599 --> 00:28:06,519 and then I want to actually get your perspective on something. 572 00:28:06,602 --> 00:28:10,564 I-I think what's different about the playoffs, 573 00:28:10,648 --> 00:28:11,649 so… 574 00:28:13,109 --> 00:28:14,693 to your point about… 575 00:28:15,528 --> 00:28:19,031 still winning a game, but maybe an adjustment's made late in the game, 576 00:28:19,115 --> 00:28:22,076 and you say we won the game, but they may have figured something out. 577 00:28:22,159 --> 00:28:23,160 -Yeah. -Right? 578 00:28:23,244 --> 00:28:24,578 I think what's different is… 579 00:28:25,663 --> 00:28:27,123 if you make that adjustment 580 00:28:27,206 --> 00:28:29,125 with six minutes to go in the third quarter 581 00:28:29,875 --> 00:28:33,045 and you come back, still lose the game, 582 00:28:33,129 --> 00:28:35,172 the next night, you might be playing Memphis, 583 00:28:35,256 --> 00:28:37,425 the next night, you might be playing Oklahoma City, 584 00:28:37,508 --> 00:28:39,760 the next night, you might be playing Portland. 585 00:28:39,844 --> 00:28:42,596 So you might have to wait two months. 586 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:43,931 Right. 587 00:28:44,014 --> 00:28:45,850 In the playoffs, you make an adjustment, 588 00:28:45,933 --> 00:28:48,727 you feel like you can exploit something, it's the same damn team. 589 00:28:48,811 --> 00:28:51,480 -Same damn team. -The next night or a day later. 590 00:28:51,564 --> 00:28:52,731 -Yeah. -Yeah. 591 00:28:52,815 --> 00:28:56,819 And so that's where you see, like, Dallas in '11. 592 00:28:56,902 --> 00:28:59,447 -You remember JJ Barea against the Lakers. -Mm-hm. 593 00:28:59,530 --> 00:29:02,533 It's like, oh, they, JJ and Dirk in pick-and-roll. 594 00:29:03,325 --> 00:29:04,827 -They can't stop that. -Yeah. 595 00:29:04,910 --> 00:29:07,121 We're just going to exploit that over and over. 596 00:29:07,204 --> 00:29:10,791 Um, what's your perspective on luck in the playoffs? 597 00:29:10,875 --> 00:29:12,084 Needed. 598 00:29:13,961 --> 00:29:15,171 Give me an example. 599 00:29:17,089 --> 00:29:19,842 The biggest example of, like, luck in the post-- 600 00:29:19,925 --> 00:29:21,635 In your, in your experience. 601 00:29:21,719 --> 00:29:23,179 Oh, in my experience? 602 00:29:25,931 --> 00:29:27,099 Uh… 603 00:29:28,476 --> 00:29:30,311 Trying to think of my championship runs. 604 00:29:32,313 --> 00:29:35,274 I mean, I was on the team. That's the luck, right? 605 00:29:39,195 --> 00:29:41,822 I can't think off the top of my head, but no, no, seriously. 606 00:29:41,906 --> 00:29:44,909 Like, you know, you could be a great team, but you need a little luck. 607 00:29:44,992 --> 00:29:47,161 You need the ball to bounce your way sometimes. 608 00:29:47,244 --> 00:29:51,457 You know, you need a, you know, a certain player on the opposing team 609 00:29:51,540 --> 00:29:54,835 get in foul trouble, you know, it's just, I don't know… 610 00:29:54,919 --> 00:29:56,295 I mean, off the top of my head, 611 00:29:56,378 --> 00:29:59,131 I started to think of like what unfortunately, 612 00:29:59,215 --> 00:30:01,717 what happened with Kawhi with the Zaza Pachulia thing. 613 00:30:02,468 --> 00:30:05,513 -You know, the Spurs was-- -They were good. 614 00:30:05,596 --> 00:30:07,181 -They were fucking good. -Yeah. 615 00:30:07,264 --> 00:30:10,309 And they were handling the shit out of Golden State up until that point. 616 00:30:10,392 --> 00:30:11,644 I think they were maybe up… 617 00:30:11,727 --> 00:30:13,646 I can't, I don't know off the top of my head. 618 00:30:13,729 --> 00:30:16,023 We can always look it up, obviously, they were up 17, 619 00:30:16,106 --> 00:30:17,900 you know, and they were very fucking good. 620 00:30:17,983 --> 00:30:21,237 And… you know, you get Kawhi go down with the ankle 621 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,405 and it's like, oh, shit, the whole thing changes. 622 00:30:23,489 --> 00:30:26,408 So, you know, like, I don't know off the top of my head 623 00:30:26,492 --> 00:30:29,537 as far as, you know, my experience, but… 624 00:30:29,620 --> 00:30:33,040 Luck you want to say is always, you need… 625 00:30:33,123 --> 00:30:35,626 Yes, you need it. You need some luck for sure. 626 00:30:35,709 --> 00:30:36,710 You definitely do. 627 00:30:36,794 --> 00:30:39,797 I think it goes back to where we kind of started this 628 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:45,344 with the one play where a lucky bounce, 629 00:30:45,427 --> 00:30:52,226 an unlucky bounce, a call, uh, a guy reacting to something, 2016. 630 00:30:52,309 --> 00:30:53,602 Yeah. 631 00:30:53,686 --> 00:30:55,479 [laughing] 632 00:30:55,563 --> 00:30:57,690 An injury, right? A play, a moment. 633 00:30:57,773 --> 00:31:00,067 -A play, a moment. Yeah, for sure. -And it's not… 634 00:31:00,150 --> 00:31:02,570 -I think luck maybe is the wrong word. -It's not though. 635 00:31:02,653 --> 00:31:06,365 It's like an inflection point almost of, like, someone gets hurt-- 636 00:31:06,448 --> 00:31:08,325 -That can change the trajectory. -Yes. 637 00:31:08,409 --> 00:31:11,954 The trajectory of what's to... what's to come. 638 00:31:12,037 --> 00:31:13,831 I mean, do you look at it… 639 00:31:13,914 --> 00:31:15,249 What is it, '01? 640 00:31:16,166 --> 00:31:17,751 Lakers, Kings? 641 00:31:17,835 --> 00:31:22,298 I think that was game five or six maybe and they get the tip out to Big Shot Bob. 642 00:31:22,381 --> 00:31:24,508 -[JJ] Yeah. -Like… 643 00:31:24,592 --> 00:31:28,345 [JJ] I think Kobe-- Kobe missed a floater over Doug Christie, I think. 644 00:31:28,429 --> 00:31:30,306 -And then Shaq just… -Yeah, yeah. 645 00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:31,640 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 646 00:31:31,724 --> 00:31:34,143 -Vlade... -Yeah, exactly, tipped it out… 647 00:31:34,226 --> 00:31:36,729 [JJ] Yeah, right to Robert Horry. 648 00:31:36,812 --> 00:31:39,648 [LeBron] If you clean glass on that, that's the game. 649 00:31:39,732 --> 00:31:41,275 -[JJ] Yeah. -And it's like… 650 00:31:41,358 --> 00:31:45,195 How many times a ball gets batted 651 00:31:45,279 --> 00:31:47,781 right into one of the biggest clutch players 652 00:31:47,865 --> 00:31:49,617 in the NBA history at the top of the key 653 00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:53,829 and he just-- at the end of the game, bang, bang. 654 00:31:53,912 --> 00:31:55,289 Yes, that's some luck. 655 00:31:55,372 --> 00:31:57,750 -There's some luck to that. -There's some luck to that. 656 00:32:00,669 --> 00:32:01,962 Complete transparency, 657 00:32:02,046 --> 00:32:05,466 we actually got up and sat back down 'cause we had to say this. 658 00:32:06,383 --> 00:32:09,720 -Game six, Ray Allen's three. -Yeah, I don't… 659 00:32:09,803 --> 00:32:12,097 -[JJ] The sequence of events here… -Yeah. 660 00:32:12,181 --> 00:32:13,766 -…that led up to that. -Yep. 661 00:32:13,849 --> 00:32:16,644 [LeBron] I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is that, 662 00:32:16,727 --> 00:32:18,937 you know, Pop had took Timmy D out. 663 00:32:19,021 --> 00:32:20,356 -Yeah. -You know… 664 00:32:20,439 --> 00:32:21,982 And I think because, you know, 665 00:32:22,066 --> 00:32:23,942 they probably looking to switch everything 666 00:32:24,026 --> 00:32:25,778 'cause we needed threes, we needed threes. 667 00:32:25,861 --> 00:32:28,072 So, everything was gonna be on the perimeter. 668 00:32:28,155 --> 00:32:31,033 I had literally just made one three before that. 669 00:32:31,116 --> 00:32:34,328 And we ran one of our plays that we've been practicing all year 670 00:32:34,411 --> 00:32:36,580 where I would, you know, come and set the pick… 671 00:32:36,664 --> 00:32:38,540 Like, we just kind of, like, we drew up on a whiteboard. 672 00:32:38,624 --> 00:32:40,542 I will flare over the top and then come back. 673 00:32:40,626 --> 00:32:42,920 And, uh, I missed that one. 674 00:32:43,003 --> 00:32:46,340 And… who knows if Timmy D is on the floor. 675 00:32:46,423 --> 00:32:49,134 Does he clean glass? He's cleaned glass a lot in his career. 676 00:32:50,010 --> 00:32:53,972 But Bosh is able to, you know, get the rebound over Manu. 677 00:32:54,056 --> 00:32:56,392 Manu kind of falls down a little bit. 678 00:32:56,475 --> 00:32:58,727 He's kind of on the back, he cleans glass and then… 679 00:32:59,770 --> 00:33:02,981 Ray… backpedals. 680 00:33:03,065 --> 00:33:04,525 Doesn't even look at the line. 681 00:33:04,608 --> 00:33:07,319 What if he steps on the line backpedaling? 682 00:33:07,403 --> 00:33:10,447 -What if his toe is on the line? -What if his toe is on the line? 683 00:33:11,907 --> 00:33:13,409 There's a lot of preparation. 684 00:33:13,492 --> 00:33:15,494 'Cause I watch Ray do that every day, prep like that, 685 00:33:15,577 --> 00:33:18,122 but I believe there's some luck to that too. 686 00:33:18,205 --> 00:33:20,290 The thing I always think about that play, 687 00:33:20,374 --> 00:33:23,293 and this is going to sound weird and it's going to make me look bad. 688 00:33:24,169 --> 00:33:26,630 It will. But I will take it. 689 00:33:28,507 --> 00:33:32,636 Manu was such a fucking psychotic competitor. 690 00:33:33,512 --> 00:33:36,306 I think about him going for that rebound. 691 00:33:37,558 --> 00:33:40,185 If I was in that situation and saw the ball bounce, 692 00:33:40,269 --> 00:33:41,895 and this is not revisionist history. 693 00:33:41,979 --> 00:33:43,397 I'm just being honest with you. 694 00:33:44,273 --> 00:33:45,566 And I'm guarding Ray Allen. 695 00:33:46,358 --> 00:33:47,776 I'm staying at home. 696 00:33:47,860 --> 00:33:49,111 But Manu is Manu. 697 00:33:49,194 --> 00:33:52,114 -He wants that rebound to close the game. -He wanted to tip it out. 698 00:33:52,197 --> 00:33:55,409 He wanted to close the game out, win a championship. 699 00:33:55,492 --> 00:33:57,870 Like, I'm-- This is-- I'm not knocking what he did. 700 00:33:57,953 --> 00:33:59,788 No, no, for sure, yeah. 701 00:33:59,872 --> 00:34:02,666 And had he not fallen, it wouldn't even have mattered. 702 00:34:02,750 --> 00:34:04,877 -Right. -But he's such a competitor. 703 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,505 He went for it and he fell, and that was all that Ray needed. 704 00:34:08,589 --> 00:34:10,048 That's all he needed. 705 00:34:10,132 --> 00:34:11,216 -Wow. -Yeah. 706 00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:13,886 -Wow. Wow. Wow. -I'm soft. 707 00:34:14,636 --> 00:34:15,846 Thanks, Manu. 708 00:34:18,265 --> 00:34:19,558 I get to sit behind the wine. 709 00:34:19,641 --> 00:34:21,727 No, we're going to move it. We're going to move it over here. 710 00:34:21,810 --> 00:34:23,228 That's a big sacrifice. 711 00:34:34,490 --> 00:34:35,741 Do you want to handle this? 712 00:34:37,409 --> 00:34:39,578 I-I've never met this guy a day in my life. 713 00:34:39,661 --> 00:34:42,039 I don't even… First guest on our show. 714 00:34:42,122 --> 00:34:44,124 -First guest. -I don't even know who… 715 00:34:44,208 --> 00:34:45,417 No, this is, uh… 716 00:34:46,543 --> 00:34:49,129 My guy, Coach Keith Dambrot, man. 717 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,508 My high school coach, really taught me a lot 718 00:34:52,591 --> 00:34:57,095 about how to prep for the game, how to play the game. 719 00:34:58,055 --> 00:35:01,558 And, uh, shit, I wouldn't be here in this seat right now 720 00:35:01,642 --> 00:35:03,227 where I am in my career without him. 721 00:35:03,310 --> 00:35:05,604 That's for damn sure. That's for damn sure. 722 00:35:05,687 --> 00:35:08,899 He will say that, he's going to say the same thing about vice versa. 723 00:35:08,982 --> 00:35:13,445 No, but like, he literally, like, taught me how to take the game serious. 724 00:35:13,529 --> 00:35:16,073 Like, seriously, like, every day at practice, how to prep. 725 00:35:16,156 --> 00:35:17,741 How to prepare… 726 00:35:17,825 --> 00:35:22,162 Like, you know, me and Maverick always talk about, like, our games were so easy 727 00:35:22,246 --> 00:35:24,373 because we practice so fucking hard. 728 00:35:24,456 --> 00:35:25,999 He was like, "This is going to be the hardest thing 729 00:35:26,083 --> 00:35:27,334 y'all do on this practice court. 730 00:35:27,417 --> 00:35:29,461 We get in the games, it's going to be easy." 731 00:35:29,545 --> 00:35:31,755 And as a player, you don't really believe that shit. 732 00:35:31,839 --> 00:35:33,131 When you're 14, 15 years old, 733 00:35:33,215 --> 00:35:35,551 you're like, "I'm fucking dying out here, man." 734 00:35:35,634 --> 00:35:37,386 What are you talking about, "The games are going to be easier"? 735 00:35:37,469 --> 00:35:39,805 Like, the competition he's got, all these… 736 00:35:39,888 --> 00:35:41,139 And he was absolutely right. 737 00:35:41,223 --> 00:35:43,016 So I learned how to… 738 00:35:44,977 --> 00:35:48,814 What I learned from him is how to really prepare for the games 739 00:35:48,897 --> 00:35:51,525 before the games ever took place. 740 00:35:52,317 --> 00:35:54,111 Who was LeBron like when you coached him? 741 00:35:54,194 --> 00:35:55,696 [laughing] 742 00:35:55,779 --> 00:35:57,614 You had him freshman and sophomore year? 743 00:35:57,698 --> 00:35:58,949 I had him as freshman, sophomore. 744 00:35:59,032 --> 00:36:01,994 I met him I think when he was about 13 and a half, maybe. 745 00:36:02,077 --> 00:36:05,414 Um, he was one of the easiest guys I've ever coached. 746 00:36:05,497 --> 00:36:08,959 And so I was a college coach prior to coaching him. 747 00:36:09,042 --> 00:36:12,254 Um, and once I saw him, I called some of my friends, 748 00:36:12,337 --> 00:36:14,965 and I said, you know, "I got a guy that I think is 749 00:36:15,048 --> 00:36:17,801 "one of the best I've seen," and they all kind of laughed at me. 750 00:36:17,885 --> 00:36:20,429 And they say, "Oh, you sound like a high school coach now." 751 00:36:20,512 --> 00:36:23,599 You know how the high school coach always hypes guys up sometimes. 752 00:36:23,682 --> 00:36:26,935 But just easy guy, great teammate, cared about, you know, 753 00:36:27,019 --> 00:36:31,690 playing as a team, uh, loved his teammates, played hard. 754 00:36:31,773 --> 00:36:33,650 But the biggest thing that jumps out at you 755 00:36:33,734 --> 00:36:36,778 is just his innate ability and his ability to learn. 756 00:36:36,862 --> 00:36:38,363 Interesting. 757 00:36:38,447 --> 00:36:40,824 You used the word "innate" in the first episode. 758 00:36:40,908 --> 00:36:42,910 -Yeah. -I thought you were full of shit. 759 00:36:42,993 --> 00:36:44,703 [laughing] 760 00:36:44,786 --> 00:36:46,663 Glad somebody co-signed it. 761 00:36:47,706 --> 00:36:50,876 When you, when you teach basketball… 762 00:36:50,959 --> 00:36:52,836 You just, you just retired. Congratulations. 763 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,130 Congrats. Absolutely. Congrats on that. Hell of a career. 764 00:36:55,213 --> 00:36:57,633 -You got a win in the tourney. -Yes, sir. 765 00:36:57,716 --> 00:37:02,137 When you teach basketball, is there a difference in approach 766 00:37:02,930 --> 00:37:05,933 between teaching high school kids or college kids? 767 00:37:06,016 --> 00:37:07,100 That's a great question. 768 00:37:07,184 --> 00:37:09,353 So, uh, I had always been a college coach, 769 00:37:09,436 --> 00:37:10,938 so when I had that group, 770 00:37:11,021 --> 00:37:13,023 I treated them like college players 771 00:37:13,106 --> 00:37:15,484 and they actually had the brains of above that. 772 00:37:15,567 --> 00:37:17,653 And then once I knew LeBron was going to be a pro 773 00:37:17,736 --> 00:37:21,406 'cause I had had three NBA guys before him, 774 00:37:21,490 --> 00:37:25,494 then I started to treat him like he had to guard Kobe in four years. 775 00:37:25,577 --> 00:37:28,664 So that's really how I treated him. I treated him like a pro. 776 00:37:28,747 --> 00:37:29,748 That's interesting. 777 00:37:30,582 --> 00:37:31,625 Did you feel that? 778 00:37:32,459 --> 00:37:33,961 Did you not know any different? 779 00:37:34,044 --> 00:37:36,838 No, no, no. I didn't know no difference. 780 00:37:36,922 --> 00:37:40,300 I mean, I'm just going out there and just like, I'm gonna just bust my ass. 781 00:37:40,384 --> 00:37:44,179 And this is a guy that's… He's the, he's the head coach. 782 00:37:44,262 --> 00:37:45,889 So whatever he says, let's do it. 783 00:37:45,973 --> 00:37:49,768 Like, and, like, we all came together, like, me and my high school boys, 784 00:37:49,851 --> 00:37:53,021 you know, we all came to St. V for a reason and we wanted to win. 785 00:37:53,105 --> 00:37:54,773 We wanted to win a state championship. 786 00:37:54,856 --> 00:37:57,818 We wanted to win, you know, Maverick was doing, you know, 787 00:37:57,901 --> 00:38:00,320 recruiting before he was supposed to be doing it and shit, 788 00:38:00,404 --> 00:38:03,573 recruiting me to St. V, but, um, but yeah, I just wanted to win. 789 00:38:03,657 --> 00:38:07,911 So like, you know, it was times when you would be pissed off at him 790 00:38:07,995 --> 00:38:10,205 'cause you're not used to it, you're not used to, 791 00:38:10,288 --> 00:38:12,749 you know, this type of, you know, 792 00:38:12,833 --> 00:38:14,793 this type of hard work is something different. 793 00:38:14,876 --> 00:38:17,879 You know, remember, I was telling you in episode one how, 794 00:38:17,963 --> 00:38:19,840 how different it is going from, you know, 795 00:38:19,923 --> 00:38:22,009 just from grade school to middle school. 796 00:38:22,092 --> 00:38:25,303 You know, the intimidation factor of even just walking down the hallways. 797 00:38:25,387 --> 00:38:28,724 And then going from middle school to high school is even more intimidating. 798 00:38:28,807 --> 00:38:31,351 Now, you're like being around kids with, like, beards 799 00:38:31,435 --> 00:38:33,186 and, like, people are driving to school. 800 00:38:33,270 --> 00:38:35,480 I'm a freshman in high school. I don't, like, drive. 801 00:38:35,564 --> 00:38:37,607 I ride my bike or one of the coaches pick me up, 802 00:38:37,691 --> 00:38:38,817 whatever the case may be. 803 00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:43,822 So, you know, it was super duper different in a sense of… 804 00:38:44,823 --> 00:38:47,993 anything else I had been up to that point while playing the game of basketball. 805 00:38:48,076 --> 00:38:50,912 How long did you coach total between high school and college? 806 00:38:51,997 --> 00:38:54,708 Well, I had a little sabbatical. So, let me think about that. 807 00:38:54,791 --> 00:38:57,127 So, I was seven years at Duquesne, 808 00:38:57,210 --> 00:39:01,256 13 at, um, at Akron as a head coach, 809 00:39:01,339 --> 00:39:03,216 and then three other years as an assistant. 810 00:39:03,300 --> 00:39:05,052 So, close to 35 years. 811 00:39:06,053 --> 00:39:08,597 How do you coach a player 812 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,809 that can't remember… after-timeout plays? 813 00:39:12,893 --> 00:39:14,478 Coming out of a timeout. 814 00:39:15,604 --> 00:39:20,817 Coming out of a timeout, you drop a play and a player habitually… 815 00:39:21,693 --> 00:39:23,320 forgets what he's supposed to do. 816 00:39:23,403 --> 00:39:25,864 As a coach, how do you coach that player? 817 00:39:25,947 --> 00:39:28,283 That's funny 'cause we were just talking about that last night. 818 00:39:28,366 --> 00:39:30,118 I may have got some intel on that. 819 00:39:30,202 --> 00:39:32,704 So, really what you do is you have an assistant coach 820 00:39:32,788 --> 00:39:35,123 that is assigned to that guy, 821 00:39:35,207 --> 00:39:37,542 and after you draw up the play, 822 00:39:37,626 --> 00:39:41,046 he draws it, redraws it up and then tells them again about it 823 00:39:41,129 --> 00:39:43,423 because there's nothing more frustrating as a coach 824 00:39:43,507 --> 00:39:46,384 and even as a player than somebody butchering up plays 825 00:39:46,468 --> 00:39:48,095 when you draw it up for them. 826 00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:50,430 I, uh… LeBron knows this. 827 00:39:50,514 --> 00:39:52,140 I coach my son's travel team. 828 00:39:52,224 --> 00:39:54,684 It's a fourth grade travel team, nine- and ten-year-olds. 829 00:39:54,768 --> 00:40:00,816 And, uh, there's not, there's not a ton of opportunities to call timeouts. 830 00:40:00,899 --> 00:40:04,444 I'll draw up the first play. If we have the ball at halftime, I'll draw it up. 831 00:40:04,528 --> 00:40:06,947 I think each team is allowed, like, three timeouts. 832 00:40:07,572 --> 00:40:10,367 And, you know, if there's opportunities, I'll draw it up 833 00:40:10,450 --> 00:40:11,618 where we have the ball. 834 00:40:11,701 --> 00:40:15,705 'Cause a lot of times if we score on another team, they call a timeout… 835 00:40:15,789 --> 00:40:16,790 You don't have time-- 836 00:40:16,873 --> 00:40:19,876 …chaos is going to ensue at the change of possession, right? 837 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:24,965 So it's just like, but it's interesting because I have to deal with that, right? 838 00:40:25,048 --> 00:40:28,093 And the one thing I've learned this season-- 839 00:40:28,176 --> 00:40:29,594 this is my second year doing it-- 840 00:40:29,678 --> 00:40:31,471 is I tell the kids, 841 00:40:31,555 --> 00:40:34,391 not every kid, but I tell the kids that need to hear this, 842 00:40:34,474 --> 00:40:37,060 "Just watch what you're supposed to do." 843 00:40:38,478 --> 00:40:40,438 -That's a good point. -There's a lot of stuff happening. 844 00:40:40,522 --> 00:40:42,774 -Just watch what you're supposed to do. -[Keith] That's a good point. 845 00:40:42,858 --> 00:40:43,942 It's really good. 846 00:40:44,025 --> 00:40:45,652 I think the hardest thing, 847 00:40:45,735 --> 00:40:48,113 and this is where I'm curious for both of you, 848 00:40:48,196 --> 00:40:50,657 coaching it and having coaches do this. 849 00:40:51,408 --> 00:40:54,035 ATOs are such a very specific thing. 850 00:40:54,953 --> 00:40:58,832 And a big part of running an ATO correctly is timing. 851 00:40:59,583 --> 00:41:01,459 And so practicing ATOs, like, 852 00:41:01,543 --> 00:41:03,336 did you practice your ATOs? 853 00:41:03,420 --> 00:41:05,839 Did you have a list of certain plays that were ATOs, 854 00:41:05,922 --> 00:41:08,675 that were outside of your normal sets or concepts? 855 00:41:08,758 --> 00:41:12,012 And have you had coaches that actually practiced ATOs? 856 00:41:12,095 --> 00:41:14,723 So I know a lot of coaches do that, 857 00:41:14,806 --> 00:41:18,685 but I kinda, I'm kind of a coach that plays off the feel of the game. 858 00:41:18,768 --> 00:41:21,104 So I'll usually run one of the sets 859 00:41:21,188 --> 00:41:24,065 that I think's going to go at that particular time. 860 00:41:24,149 --> 00:41:27,944 That way you're not as limited as to what you can run at a certain time. 861 00:41:28,028 --> 00:41:30,030 But obviously we've practiced all of those. 862 00:41:30,113 --> 00:41:31,948 And we probably spent more time this year, 863 00:41:32,032 --> 00:41:36,203 for instance, just on 5-on-0, just making sure our guys knew 864 00:41:36,286 --> 00:41:37,662 every little aspect of it. 865 00:41:37,746 --> 00:41:38,955 And you make a great point. 866 00:41:39,039 --> 00:41:42,334 You can run a great set, but if you don't execute the screen or the cut 867 00:41:42,417 --> 00:41:46,129 or understand how to bump a screen or go tight off of a screen, 868 00:41:46,213 --> 00:41:47,839 none of it really matters. 869 00:41:47,923 --> 00:41:50,258 Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think what you were saying, J, 870 00:41:51,551 --> 00:41:52,677 I think there's a… 871 00:41:53,637 --> 00:41:59,893 practicing some ATOs is, uh, is very beneficial to certain teams. 872 00:41:59,976 --> 00:42:01,770 But also as a player, 873 00:42:01,853 --> 00:42:03,813 sometimes when a coach comes to the timeout 874 00:42:03,897 --> 00:42:06,149 and draws something that you haven't seen before, 875 00:42:06,233 --> 00:42:10,570 you kind of get like, "Oh, shit, I ain't seen this one before." 876 00:42:10,654 --> 00:42:12,781 Like, I'm going to execute this one to a tee 877 00:42:12,864 --> 00:42:15,450 because if it works now, we might can bring this back again. 878 00:42:15,533 --> 00:42:17,994 I wanna, you know, as a player, you feel good about that. 879 00:42:18,078 --> 00:42:20,914 Like, "Oh, I didn't know you had that one in your bag, Coach." 880 00:42:20,997 --> 00:42:23,208 Yeah, you have certain things that… 881 00:42:23,291 --> 00:42:27,128 You know, you have a fourth quarter package, you know, you have an ATO, 882 00:42:27,212 --> 00:42:29,214 you have, you know, SOBs, BOBs 883 00:42:29,297 --> 00:42:32,467 that you don't, you know, want to run throughout the course of the game. 884 00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:35,428 'Cause if it's a close game, you want to try to catch the defense, 885 00:42:35,512 --> 00:42:38,765 you know, sleep in or catch them off guard or whatever the case may be, but… 886 00:42:39,391 --> 00:42:42,018 in the conversation that we're having 887 00:42:42,102 --> 00:42:44,896 throughout the course of a game, you want to kind of have things 888 00:42:44,980 --> 00:42:47,315 that's in place that you've kind of practiced 889 00:42:47,399 --> 00:42:50,402 just so guys have some type of mental, you know, knowledge 890 00:42:50,485 --> 00:42:52,696 of, "Okay, this is what we worked on yesterday," 891 00:42:52,779 --> 00:42:55,407 or "This is what we worked on in shoot-around." 892 00:42:55,490 --> 00:42:58,326 But it doesn't always happen like that 'cause coaches and players, 893 00:42:58,410 --> 00:43:00,829 like, we want to, you want to do shit that, 894 00:43:00,912 --> 00:43:02,747 you want to be able to make in-game adjustments 895 00:43:02,831 --> 00:43:06,418 that maybe you didn't have an opportunity to prepare for that earlier that morning, 896 00:43:06,501 --> 00:43:09,921 or maybe it is a back-to-back and you didn't really have shoot-around. 897 00:43:10,005 --> 00:43:12,048 You didn't have an opportunity to, you know, 898 00:43:12,132 --> 00:43:15,260 really put in, you know, all the stuff that you may have wanted to put in 899 00:43:15,343 --> 00:43:16,511 if you had a practice day. 900 00:43:16,594 --> 00:43:18,305 So, I think it's all situational. 901 00:43:18,847 --> 00:43:21,808 Yeah, the reason I bring up the timing thing 902 00:43:21,891 --> 00:43:25,395 is 'cause there are certain parts of after-timeout plays 903 00:43:25,478 --> 00:43:27,897 -when you cut, when you set the screen. -Absolutely. 904 00:43:27,981 --> 00:43:30,859 Like, a big part of ATOs is misdirection. 905 00:43:30,942 --> 00:43:32,110 -[LeBron] Yeah, for sure. -Right? 906 00:43:32,193 --> 00:43:35,947 And so, when that misdirection is occurring, that's important. 907 00:43:36,031 --> 00:43:37,115 Yeah, for sure. 908 00:43:37,198 --> 00:43:40,535 The other reason I ask is because, uh, you know, 909 00:43:40,618 --> 00:43:44,080 Doc was great with this, and Brett Brown was great with this, 910 00:43:44,164 --> 00:43:46,791 is end-of-game need plays. 911 00:43:46,875 --> 00:43:49,127 -Yeah. -[JJ] So, we had need-two plays. 912 00:43:49,210 --> 00:43:51,129 -Need two, need three. -[JJ] Need-three plays. 913 00:43:51,212 --> 00:43:52,464 And we would have a package. 914 00:43:52,547 --> 00:43:55,300 And by the way, that package would change throughout the season. 915 00:43:55,383 --> 00:43:58,053 So, if we ran a play a couple times in a need-three situation… 916 00:43:58,136 --> 00:43:59,512 And it didn't work or whatever. 917 00:43:59,596 --> 00:44:02,766 Yeah, or even if it did, we would have to, we'd have to disguise it. 918 00:44:02,849 --> 00:44:05,727 -Yeah, yeah, yeah. -And then we'd have to practice that. 919 00:44:05,810 --> 00:44:08,480 And you mentioned something really good, I think. 920 00:44:08,563 --> 00:44:11,316 You know, obviously, we can't advance the ball in college. 921 00:44:11,399 --> 00:44:15,362 So, I do think some of your side outs can be plays 922 00:44:15,445 --> 00:44:18,573 that you run from the, from a normal set. 923 00:44:18,656 --> 00:44:21,034 So, the guys can actually do the same thing. 924 00:44:21,117 --> 00:44:24,287 And then the ability to save plays for late in the game, too. 925 00:44:24,371 --> 00:44:26,790 Like, I always try to save three or four 926 00:44:26,873 --> 00:44:29,834 that I like to run late that I haven't run the whole game, 927 00:44:29,918 --> 00:44:33,254 or like you said, maybe put them in a closet for two or three weeks 928 00:44:33,338 --> 00:44:35,465 and then bring them back two or three weeks later. 929 00:44:35,548 --> 00:44:37,175 I like to do that as well. 930 00:44:37,926 --> 00:44:41,096 Based on the guys that you have coached throughout your career, 931 00:44:41,971 --> 00:44:45,767 what are the skills that translate and transfer 932 00:44:45,850 --> 00:44:47,977 from high school to college, college to the NBA? 933 00:44:49,646 --> 00:44:52,524 Well, I think, you know, there's a lot of guys that have talent, 934 00:44:52,607 --> 00:44:55,235 but there's a lot of guys that don't have a good enough brain 935 00:44:55,318 --> 00:44:56,611 to play in the NBA. 936 00:44:56,694 --> 00:44:58,530 You know, you have to understand the game. 937 00:44:58,613 --> 00:45:01,491 You have to understand, you know, what it takes to make the league. 938 00:45:01,574 --> 00:45:05,954 For instance, we had the Thomas twins who, uh, LeBron knows 939 00:45:06,037 --> 00:45:08,331 that played for us at Eastern Michigan. 940 00:45:08,415 --> 00:45:12,419 Uh, one of nine twins that played in the NBA, free agent guys. 941 00:45:12,502 --> 00:45:16,172 Charles never averaged more than 11 points a game at college. 942 00:45:16,256 --> 00:45:19,050 But he had a skill set good enough to be able to play defense, 943 00:45:19,134 --> 00:45:20,635 be able to handle the ball enough, 944 00:45:20,718 --> 00:45:23,972 and shoot the three ball enough to play in the league. 945 00:45:24,055 --> 00:45:27,183 And I think a lot of guys think they have to score to play in the league. 946 00:45:27,267 --> 00:45:29,644 But you have to be able to guard to play in the league. 947 00:45:29,727 --> 00:45:32,147 You have to be able to play a role. You have to be a good role player. 948 00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:34,315 'Cause there's not many guys like LeBron. 949 00:45:34,399 --> 00:45:35,650 Most of the guys in the NBA, 950 00:45:35,733 --> 00:45:38,820 and you guys know way more than me, are role players. 951 00:45:38,903 --> 00:45:40,905 So you have to be really good at something. 952 00:45:40,989 --> 00:45:43,032 -Thanks. -[laughs] 953 00:45:43,116 --> 00:45:45,243 I think you were a little more than a role player. 954 00:45:45,326 --> 00:45:47,203 Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. 955 00:45:47,287 --> 00:45:49,372 You got a clip that I sent your ass the other day. 956 00:45:49,456 --> 00:45:50,790 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 957 00:45:50,874 --> 00:45:53,710 I actually, I would argue everybody's a role player. 958 00:45:53,793 --> 00:45:54,836 That's true. 959 00:45:54,919 --> 00:45:57,130 His role is just to be the guy, right? 960 00:45:57,213 --> 00:45:58,590 Luka's role is to be the guy. 961 00:45:58,673 --> 00:45:59,966 That's his role. 962 00:46:00,049 --> 00:46:02,594 The connota-- 963 00:46:02,677 --> 00:46:05,430 There's a difference between definition and connotation, right? 964 00:46:05,513 --> 00:46:07,599 The connotation of a role player, 965 00:46:08,391 --> 00:46:11,352 most 19- and 20-year-olds don't want to hear that. 966 00:46:11,436 --> 00:46:13,730 "I'm going to be a role player in the league?" Right? 967 00:46:13,813 --> 00:46:15,732 And that, to me, is a struggle. 968 00:46:16,441 --> 00:46:18,401 And it's interesting you bring up the brain, 969 00:46:18,485 --> 00:46:21,613 'cause I think part of the brain and part of... 970 00:46:23,031 --> 00:46:24,824 curious to get your thoughts on this too, 971 00:46:24,908 --> 00:46:27,410 part of lasting in the NBA, 972 00:46:28,745 --> 00:46:30,705 skill set, talent, 973 00:46:30,788 --> 00:46:33,166 size, strength, all that stuff, super important. 974 00:46:33,249 --> 00:46:35,251 Basketball intelligence, super important. 975 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:37,712 What about emotional intelligence? 976 00:46:37,795 --> 00:46:41,591 What about being able to be a part of a group, 977 00:46:41,674 --> 00:46:46,179 be a part of a team, navigate locker room situations, 978 00:46:46,846 --> 00:46:49,265 navigate relationships with coaches, 979 00:46:49,349 --> 00:46:51,309 navigate relationships in the training room? 980 00:46:52,602 --> 00:46:58,858 I think to some degree… that's maybe not equally as important, 981 00:46:58,942 --> 00:47:00,902 'cause you need all the stuff beforehand, 982 00:47:00,985 --> 00:47:04,614 but to last in the NBA, you have to have a level of that. 983 00:47:04,697 --> 00:47:07,158 I mean, it goes back to the saying that I told you 984 00:47:07,242 --> 00:47:10,370 about one of my good friends, Jimmy Iovine, 985 00:47:10,453 --> 00:47:15,083 always talks about, when the shit gets bigger than the cat, 986 00:47:15,166 --> 00:47:16,543 you get rid of the fucking cat. 987 00:47:17,460 --> 00:47:20,630 And what he's saying, basically in basketball terms, 988 00:47:20,713 --> 00:47:25,385 is a lot of players, when they're at their peak of performance… 989 00:47:26,928 --> 00:47:30,557 but on the, on the side that you're talking about, 990 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,142 they don't, they haven't respected authority, 991 00:47:33,226 --> 00:47:36,437 they haven't come in and just wanted to be a part of the group. 992 00:47:36,521 --> 00:47:38,565 You know, but they was averaging 25, 30, 993 00:47:38,648 --> 00:47:40,942 or whatever the case may be, and they were the shit. 994 00:47:42,485 --> 00:47:44,112 When that stuff starts to dwindle… 995 00:47:45,405 --> 00:47:49,367 and the shit is not as good as the individual anymore, 996 00:47:49,450 --> 00:47:51,160 they get rid of the cat. 997 00:47:51,244 --> 00:47:54,539 And we see it in our sport, you see it in sports in general. 998 00:47:55,164 --> 00:47:59,002 You know, you have to play the game to play the game as well. 999 00:48:00,044 --> 00:48:01,379 And at the end of the day, 1000 00:48:01,462 --> 00:48:05,216 being a good person shouldn't have to just be dedicated to just sports. 1001 00:48:05,300 --> 00:48:07,260 -That's fucking life. -Yeah. 1002 00:48:07,343 --> 00:48:08,803 Just being a good fucking person. 1003 00:48:08,886 --> 00:48:11,180 Hey, how you doing? Good morning. 1004 00:48:11,264 --> 00:48:12,849 Okay. Am I having a bad day? 1005 00:48:12,932 --> 00:48:15,059 Okay, I might be having a bad day. Alright. 1006 00:48:15,143 --> 00:48:18,187 Yo, you alright? Like, shit like just normal shit. 1007 00:48:18,938 --> 00:48:22,150 Like, if I'm walking to a door and a woman is beside me, 1008 00:48:22,233 --> 00:48:24,110 no matter if she's a stranger or not, 1009 00:48:24,193 --> 00:48:28,072 she's an older woman or a younger, like, hold the fucking door open for her. 1010 00:48:28,865 --> 00:48:31,451 Why? I don't understand. Why is that such a like… 1011 00:48:32,410 --> 00:48:33,703 That should be easy. 1012 00:48:34,454 --> 00:48:38,291 -That should be easy. But it's not. -Not everybody does it. 1013 00:48:38,374 --> 00:48:41,461 I had, I had, I had vets my rookie year 1014 00:48:41,544 --> 00:48:44,255 that were like, "Dude, you're coming into the practice facility." 1015 00:48:44,339 --> 00:48:47,216 When you walk in a room, say hi to everybody. 1016 00:48:47,300 --> 00:48:49,677 Acknowledge people. Right? 1017 00:48:49,761 --> 00:48:52,680 I was in my shit. I wasn't playing. You know, I was upset. 1018 00:48:52,764 --> 00:48:54,932 You have to take that into account as well. 1019 00:48:55,016 --> 00:48:57,393 -But at the end of the day-- -I was 22. I was young. 1020 00:48:57,477 --> 00:48:59,812 -But like-- -I think that helps you. 1021 00:48:59,896 --> 00:49:04,359 You last longer in a department that you want to be a part of 1022 00:49:04,442 --> 00:49:06,486 because you just play the game a little bit… 1023 00:49:06,569 --> 00:49:09,364 -And no one's telling you to be fake. -No, no, no. It's not that. 1024 00:49:09,447 --> 00:49:11,824 It's not being fake. It's just being, just being human. 1025 00:49:11,908 --> 00:49:15,078 Be a fucking human being. No matter what else. Whatever you do. 1026 00:49:15,161 --> 00:49:17,121 It's a fine line between being in the league 1027 00:49:17,205 --> 00:49:19,082 and not being in the league, right? 1028 00:49:19,165 --> 00:49:22,502 So when you go 12 to 15 or whatever, right, 1029 00:49:22,585 --> 00:49:24,754 the coach doesn't really want to be around somebody 1030 00:49:24,837 --> 00:49:26,714 that's not a good person. 1031 00:49:26,798 --> 00:49:30,176 'Cause there's somebody probably just as good as you or close to as good as you 1032 00:49:30,259 --> 00:49:32,929 that you can play with that probably aren't going to play anyway, right, 1033 00:49:33,012 --> 00:49:34,013 at that point. 1034 00:49:34,097 --> 00:49:36,724 There's a lot of guys I know that I'm friends with 1035 00:49:36,808 --> 00:49:38,893 that had nine- or ten-year careers 1036 00:49:38,976 --> 00:49:42,063 that never played more than ten, eleven minutes in a game, 1037 00:49:42,146 --> 00:49:46,109 never were really an 82-game regular rotation player. 1038 00:49:46,192 --> 00:49:48,611 -But they were great fucking dudes. -Yep. 1039 00:49:48,695 --> 00:49:51,322 And they lasted nine or ten years and maximized their career. 1040 00:49:51,406 --> 00:49:53,074 Because of this very thing we're talking about. 1041 00:49:53,157 --> 00:49:55,410 And if you get that tenth year, you get that pension. 1042 00:49:55,493 --> 00:49:57,537 You get that pension. You get that health care. 1043 00:49:57,620 --> 00:50:00,289 -You get that health care. You get that. -Lifetime. 1044 00:50:01,124 --> 00:50:06,295 The influence of the game in the NBA, 1045 00:50:07,213 --> 00:50:10,425 European basketball, on the college game. 1046 00:50:12,552 --> 00:50:14,303 We maybe had talked about this 1047 00:50:14,387 --> 00:50:17,807 and we haven't really, like, dove into this. 1048 00:50:18,725 --> 00:50:21,769 It feels like at times when I watch college, 1049 00:50:21,853 --> 00:50:26,023 there's a big difference between coaches 1050 00:50:26,107 --> 00:50:30,611 who have embraced what I would call modern basketball concepts 1051 00:50:31,195 --> 00:50:35,700 versus what I would call antiquated basketball concepts. 1052 00:50:36,868 --> 00:50:42,540 Where is college basketball right now with… being influenced 1053 00:50:42,623 --> 00:50:48,254 by either the NBA or Euro League or, you know, World FIBA competitions 1054 00:50:48,337 --> 00:50:50,173 just in terms of X-and-O strategy? 1055 00:50:50,256 --> 00:50:52,467 So clearly in my mind, 1056 00:50:52,550 --> 00:50:56,512 uh, the NBA has been influenced by the European basketball. 1057 00:50:56,596 --> 00:51:00,516 And I feel like college basketball is two to three years behind the NBA. 1058 00:51:01,142 --> 00:51:03,102 And the reason I say that is, for instance, 1059 00:51:03,186 --> 00:51:05,688 when people started icing the ball screens, 1060 00:51:05,772 --> 00:51:09,275 that took two years before it hit college basketball. 1061 00:51:09,358 --> 00:51:13,613 And then everybody, to offset the ice, they started going to the elbow handoffs. 1062 00:51:13,696 --> 00:51:15,198 Right, the dribble handoffs. 1063 00:51:15,281 --> 00:51:18,242 And that took another two years before it hit college basketball. 1064 00:51:18,326 --> 00:51:22,747 So, the last thing probably that occurs is the isos 1065 00:51:22,830 --> 00:51:24,916 and finding the elephant in the room, I call it. 1066 00:51:24,999 --> 00:51:27,376 -You know, the guy that can't really-- -Target hunting. 1067 00:51:27,460 --> 00:51:29,545 Yeah, like LeBron was talking about, pointing it. 1068 00:51:29,629 --> 00:51:30,671 "We're going at him." 1069 00:51:30,755 --> 00:51:32,340 That's probably the last thing and… 1070 00:51:32,423 --> 00:51:35,301 The one thing that's different is there's not as many great players 1071 00:51:35,384 --> 00:51:37,887 in college basketball as there is in the NBA. 1072 00:51:37,970 --> 00:51:40,556 So it's never going to look exactly the same. 1073 00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:44,185 But I think the NBA has clearly been ahead of college basketball 1074 00:51:44,268 --> 00:51:47,480 and will remain to be the driving force of college basketball. 1075 00:51:47,563 --> 00:51:49,982 It takes, it takes coaches a long time to adjust. 1076 00:51:50,066 --> 00:51:54,278 Like, probably when you played some, there was still some motion offense. 1077 00:51:54,362 --> 00:51:56,405 Right, you don't see hardly any of that anymore. 1078 00:51:56,489 --> 00:51:58,991 Like, we used to cover, like, down screens, 1079 00:51:59,075 --> 00:52:00,993 back screens, low crosses. 1080 00:52:01,077 --> 00:52:05,581 Now what we do is we cover ball screens and dribble handoffs. 1081 00:52:05,665 --> 00:52:08,334 And split screens, you know, like you were talking about. 1082 00:52:08,417 --> 00:52:10,461 That's all we cover. 1083 00:52:10,545 --> 00:52:13,589 NC State was the only team in my four years in college, 1084 00:52:13,673 --> 00:52:17,051 and that was later on after Herb Sendek had left, I believe, 1085 00:52:17,134 --> 00:52:18,719 that iced a pick-and-roll, 1086 00:52:19,387 --> 00:52:23,432 Boston College still ran flex when they joined the ACC. 1087 00:52:23,516 --> 00:52:25,184 -Your boy Duds. -My boy Duds? 1088 00:52:25,268 --> 00:52:26,269 Your boy Duds. 1089 00:52:26,352 --> 00:52:29,313 -They literally just ran the flex offense. -Al Skinner, right? 1090 00:52:29,397 --> 00:52:30,731 And that's all they ran. 1091 00:52:30,815 --> 00:52:34,235 So, yeah, I get the difference between... 1092 00:52:35,194 --> 00:52:38,406 or the, I should say, being behind on things. 1093 00:52:38,489 --> 00:52:44,495 The one thing I have noticed particularly this spring in March Madness is… 1094 00:52:45,705 --> 00:52:48,958 there are some really good coaches 1095 00:52:49,792 --> 00:52:54,672 that are being creative with non-shooting players, 1096 00:52:54,755 --> 00:52:56,257 non-spacing players. 1097 00:52:56,340 --> 00:52:58,926 So the difference, of course, between the NBA 1098 00:52:59,010 --> 00:53:01,470 and FIBA and college is that you can be in the paint. 1099 00:53:01,554 --> 00:53:02,555 Right? 1100 00:53:02,638 --> 00:53:05,349 And there are certain players, not every, it's not like the NBA. 1101 00:53:05,433 --> 00:53:06,851 The NBA is the best of the best. 1102 00:53:06,934 --> 00:53:09,145 Great college team might have two or three NBA guys. 1103 00:53:09,228 --> 00:53:11,981 Of those two or three guys, maybe one guy has a ten-year career. 1104 00:53:12,064 --> 00:53:13,357 That's just the reality. 1105 00:53:13,441 --> 00:53:17,069 So there's going to be players on the floor that you don't have to guard. 1106 00:53:17,153 --> 00:53:18,195 And… 1107 00:53:19,363 --> 00:53:21,365 UConn does this with Danny Hurley. 1108 00:53:21,449 --> 00:53:24,452 Um, I saw the Baylor women's team do this 1109 00:53:24,535 --> 00:53:27,163 at the end of a game on a need-three situation, 1110 00:53:27,246 --> 00:53:30,583 is you use the non-shooter in the corner, 1111 00:53:31,375 --> 00:53:37,882 you put the shooter either on the block or on the same side wing. 1112 00:53:38,758 --> 00:53:41,928 -Skip pass, either uphill DHO. -Uphill DHO. 1113 00:53:42,011 --> 00:53:44,388 Or a DHO to the person on the block. 1114 00:53:44,472 --> 00:53:47,350 Baylor used it to get a game-tying three to send it into overtime. 1115 00:53:47,433 --> 00:53:49,518 Yeah, because then his man can't really help on those. 1116 00:53:49,602 --> 00:53:51,312 -Because he's so far away from him. -So far away. 1117 00:53:51,395 --> 00:53:53,272 You have to… I think that's one thing. 1118 00:53:53,356 --> 00:53:56,651 And I think the other thing is using your shooters as screeners more. 1119 00:53:56,734 --> 00:53:58,945 You know, both on the ball and off the ball. 1120 00:53:59,028 --> 00:54:01,656 Back screen, you know, into a down screen. 1121 00:54:01,739 --> 00:54:04,116 Or back screen into a ball screen. 1122 00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,744 Just trying to get your shooter involved. 1123 00:54:06,827 --> 00:54:09,538 But your idea is a really good one because they're always late. 1124 00:54:09,622 --> 00:54:11,666 You were talking about being late to the, 1125 00:54:11,749 --> 00:54:13,793 to the handoff and the ball screen overreaction. 1126 00:54:13,876 --> 00:54:15,419 That's a good point. 1127 00:54:15,503 --> 00:54:18,839 When UConn runs that play with, uh, with their big guy, 1128 00:54:18,923 --> 00:54:20,383 there's constant overreaction. 1129 00:54:20,466 --> 00:54:22,635 -They get slips, they get threes. -Yeah, for sure. 1130 00:54:22,718 --> 00:54:24,095 I mean, you saw it last year. 1131 00:54:24,178 --> 00:54:26,013 Obviously they're doing it again this year. 1132 00:54:26,097 --> 00:54:29,183 But Jordan Hawkins got so much action last year over that 1133 00:54:29,266 --> 00:54:31,644 because they had a non-shooting big out there. 1134 00:54:32,436 --> 00:54:35,189 Obviously, Jordan Hawkins is being body to body, 1135 00:54:35,272 --> 00:54:37,984 but X4, X5 that's guarding the non-shooter, 1136 00:54:38,067 --> 00:54:40,820 -he can't get back up the floor. -I just want to draw one play. 1137 00:54:40,903 --> 00:54:42,571 I just want to draw one play. 1138 00:54:42,655 --> 00:54:44,657 They're not used to being out there either. 1139 00:54:44,740 --> 00:54:46,367 -I got to draw one. -It's like a fish out of the water. 1140 00:54:46,450 --> 00:54:47,868 I'm like a… 1141 00:54:47,952 --> 00:54:50,579 Especially in college where these, these… 1142 00:54:50,663 --> 00:54:53,916 People guarding non-shooters are literally just standing there. 1143 00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,044 I hate to bring it up, but Illinois went 55 real minutes 1144 00:54:57,128 --> 00:54:59,797 without scoring a point versus UConn. 1145 00:55:01,173 --> 00:55:03,592 UVA had 14 in the first half. 1146 00:55:03,676 --> 00:55:06,303 It went like, I don't know, close to an hour. 1147 00:55:06,387 --> 00:55:08,681 Forty-three minutes without scoring an actual point. 1148 00:55:08,764 --> 00:55:10,182 It was insane. 1149 00:55:10,266 --> 00:55:12,727 -Cheers, Coach. -Cheers. Cheers. 1150 00:55:12,810 --> 00:55:13,853 Good seeing you. 1151 00:55:13,936 --> 00:55:17,023 So, like, if a team is top-locking a shooter over here, 1152 00:55:17,106 --> 00:55:18,566 let's say this is fluff. 1153 00:55:18,649 --> 00:55:19,817 -Yep. -This is fluff. 1154 00:55:19,900 --> 00:55:21,736 This is like the four-man going to screen. 1155 00:55:21,819 --> 00:55:24,488 You've got your five over here. This guy's pulled all the way. 1156 00:55:24,572 --> 00:55:27,074 This is where the ball is. This is what I'm talking about. 1157 00:55:27,158 --> 00:55:30,286 You set this up with the away screen. 1158 00:55:30,369 --> 00:55:32,872 -This defender jumps into a top-lock. -Yep. 1159 00:55:32,955 --> 00:55:34,623 This guy is just sitting in the paint. 1160 00:55:34,707 --> 00:55:36,584 -You skip-pass it to the corner. -Yep. 1161 00:55:36,667 --> 00:55:39,503 Here's the uphill DHL. Now this guy's going to be late. 1162 00:55:39,587 --> 00:55:42,798 This guy's out of position 'cause he thinks this is coming. 1163 00:55:42,882 --> 00:55:46,385 That's… There are ways to get around the spacing issues. 1164 00:55:46,469 --> 00:55:48,596 And, like, and the same thing he was saying. 1165 00:55:48,679 --> 00:55:50,806 If I'm being top-locked, right… 1166 00:55:52,266 --> 00:55:54,518 and the big comes set the pick-and-roll, 1167 00:55:54,602 --> 00:55:57,605 or sets up the wide pin, if I'm the guy that's being top-locked, 1168 00:55:57,688 --> 00:56:01,150 I'm the shooter, I can go underneath, snake it, 1169 00:56:01,233 --> 00:56:03,402 and set the ball screen on the ball handler. 1170 00:56:03,486 --> 00:56:05,154 Now my guy's top-locked. 1171 00:56:05,237 --> 00:56:06,906 He can't switch. He can't help. 1172 00:56:06,989 --> 00:56:09,325 -Now the ball handler comes off naked. -[Keith] Yeah. 1173 00:56:09,408 --> 00:56:11,702 Because my guy's only worried about me coming off to get a shot. 1174 00:56:11,786 --> 00:56:13,496 I used to do that with Joel. 1175 00:56:13,579 --> 00:56:15,414 -Remember our elbow too, actually? -Yeah, absolutely. 1176 00:56:15,498 --> 00:56:17,208 Left elbow. I'm in left corner. 1177 00:56:18,375 --> 00:56:20,836 And a lot of teams would top-lock it. 1178 00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:24,632 And I would literally just walk my guy up into Joel's man. 1179 00:56:24,715 --> 00:56:26,967 -You screen two guys at once. -Joel would spin and he'd get a layup. 1180 00:56:27,051 --> 00:56:28,594 Yeah, you screen two guys at once. 1181 00:56:28,677 --> 00:56:29,804 That's great stuff. 1182 00:56:29,887 --> 00:56:32,890 Uh, Coach, before we let you go, and thanks for being our first guest. 1183 00:56:32,973 --> 00:56:34,183 Thanks for having me. 1184 00:56:35,226 --> 00:56:36,769 I got a question for you. 1185 00:56:36,852 --> 00:56:38,104 And I'll ask LeBron this 1186 00:56:38,187 --> 00:56:40,481 in two or seven years, we're not really sure. 1187 00:56:41,899 --> 00:56:45,611 What are you going to miss the most about the game of basketball 1188 00:56:45,694 --> 00:56:47,446 and about being around it every day? 1189 00:56:47,530 --> 00:56:50,407 I just think the effect you have on people. 1190 00:56:50,491 --> 00:56:51,492 You know, um… 1191 00:56:52,326 --> 00:56:54,954 I think one of the things that I always tried to teach LeBron 1192 00:56:55,037 --> 00:56:56,872 was you're going to hit some rough moments, 1193 00:56:56,956 --> 00:56:58,290 but you got to battle through. 1194 00:56:58,374 --> 00:57:01,877 I think that's the biggest thing is these young people need advice 1195 00:57:01,961 --> 00:57:03,921 as to how to handle adversity. 1196 00:57:04,004 --> 00:57:07,341 Because what happens a lot of times is they get bailed out of adversity now. 1197 00:57:07,424 --> 00:57:10,636 Nobody really teaches them what to do when they hit it. 1198 00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:12,304 Because we've all been there, right? 1199 00:57:12,388 --> 00:57:14,557 We've all, we've all been in some tough situations. 1200 00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:17,434 Just when you think things are going great, something happens. 1201 00:57:17,518 --> 00:57:19,603 And if you don't know how to handle it, it's really difficult. 1202 00:57:19,687 --> 00:57:21,021 Yeah, that's great. 1203 00:57:21,105 --> 00:57:22,481 All right, cheers, guys. 1204 00:57:22,565 --> 00:57:23,983 -Cheers. -Coach, appreciate it. 1205 00:57:24,066 --> 00:57:25,276 Thank you. 1206 00:57:25,359 --> 00:57:26,777 -Appreciate you. -Cheers. 1207 00:57:26,861 --> 00:57:27,945 [JJ] We're good. 1208 00:57:29,697 --> 00:57:31,532 -[LeBron] He's high. -[Keith] Because he's so high. 1209 00:57:31,615 --> 00:57:33,242 [JJ] Single-sided. Single-sided high. 1210 00:57:33,325 --> 00:57:34,451 He's so high. 1211 00:57:34,535 --> 00:57:36,078 [LeBron] And you put the one here. 1212 00:57:36,162 --> 00:57:39,665 Because if the one or the two decides to help on a lob, they're too small. 1213 00:57:43,169 --> 00:57:44,879 [JJ] Hey, guys. Thanks for listening. 1214 00:57:44,962 --> 00:57:47,047 Thanks for watching Mind the Game podcast. 1215 00:57:47,131 --> 00:57:49,258 If you like it, please hit that subscribe button. 1216 00:57:49,341 --> 00:57:50,467 Thank you. 1217 00:57:50,551 --> 00:57:52,553 [music playing] 96327

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