All language subtitles for Signs.of.a.Psychopath.S05E11.How.to.Spot.a.Psychopath.1080p.AMZN.WEB-DL.DDP2.0.H.264-BurCyg_track3_[eng]

The thing inside of me,
it's like...

the appetite --
it's like a wolf that's...

feeling...

the hunger.

SAHNI: In this series,
we've seen individuals

that have engaged
in terrifying acts,

violent acts of horror --
murders, kidnapping, rape.

We've seen that
psychopathic individuals

look sometimes
like you and me.

They walk among us.

They're our neighbors,
they're our co-workers,

they might even be our spouses
or family members.

Research has shown us
that there are also some

telltale signs that give us
the indication

that somebody may have
psychopathic behavior.

The reason why we need
to recognize the indicators

of psychopathy,
those signs of psychopath,

are because they are
extensions of

traits that are
in all of us as human beings,

and that when some of
those traits become

too prominent
or are atrophied,

there's not enough of it,

that's when people
get into trouble.

It's important to recognize
them so that when we do,

we know when we might be
in danger.

SAHNI: We'll talk about some
common markers that we,

as experts, look for to help
identify an individual

that we think is exhibiting
psychopathy and that we use to

assess their risk level
for future violence.

Confidence is
a positive thing.

Confidence can help us
succeed in our interpersonal

relationships, at our jobs
and our school.

But whenever it begins to
escalate to a level of

grandiosity and narcissism
where we think that we make

the rules, that's when
it becomes pathological.

Somebody that has an intense
level of self focus,

an over-inflated sense of self
importance, and a belief that

they're somehow better
than the rest of us,

it allows them to be in
a power differential

position where they're one up,
and we're one down.

Richard Ramirez walked
into the courtroom as if he was

a rock star

entering into a concert venue
rather than somebody who's

facing trial for multiple
murder charges.

He seemed more interested
in the fame

and the affection that
he received from his followers.

That is his way of showing
his grandiosity,

that this whole court system
was just beneath him.

He was arrogant,
he felt that he was

better than everyone else.

While Richard Ramirez
is one notorious example

of grandiosity,

we also see that same behavior
in Israel Keyes.

SAHNI: For most of us,
the experience of interacting

with law enforcement,
if you just think about

having been pulled over
with a speeding ticket,

people become nervous,

they start babbling
and talking quickly.

They show outward signs of
stress and discomfort.

What we see here in Keyes,

oozes the concept
of grandiosity.

He is self-focused,
he is entitled,

he is arrogant, and he is not
at all concerned about

the interaction and how he comes
across with others.

[Keyes laughs]

TUSSEY: These victims were
pawns in Israel Keyes's game,

and whenever
they foiled his plan,

he got angry and tried to take
back control of the situation,

and the way
he callously laughs

about it in retrospect as he's
discussing it, in the same way

that you or I might discuss
going to the store to buy milk,

he knows what's right
and what's wrong,

but he doesn't care.

[laughs]

MORGAN: The comment,
"Everything is free if

you take it,"
is really interesting.

Rules apply to other people.

He's expressing
the narcissistic view of

the world that
he's unconstrained,

and the world is --
things are there for him,

and he deserves them.

They're owed to him,
because he's so great.

SAHNI: Many people have a desire
to have nice, material items,

nice cars, nice clothes,
nice homes.

But most individuals in
society don't take

from other people to gain
those accomplishments.

A psychopathic individual
uses other people to get

ahead, and they victimize
people all along the way.

And for Aeman Presley,
it was about fame.

SAHNI: There are people
every single day

whose dreams are failed.

For somebody
who experiences grandiosity,

being able to stay
in a status position is

a critical part of what
continues to feed it.

And so for Aeman Presley,
having a failed acting

career doesn't really

do anything to help
bolster that grandiosity,

but killing people does.

He's not getting the attention
and recognition that

he thinks he should have
by being an actor.

So he's finding another way
to make his mark on the world.

If he can't get adoration,
he will settle for fear.

DETECTIVE: Mm-hmm.

SAHNI: When we think of
a narcissistic individual,

and we think about
their grandiosity,

it's all about themselves.

But in so many of
our episodes and crimes,

the high that that individual
is after is 100 percent

about the harm
another person experiences.

It isn't incidental
or a byproduct.

It's actually the focus
of how they achieve pleasure.

A sadist is somebody
who enjoys seeing

the pain and suffering
in another individual.

It's a common trait that
we see in psychopathy.

In a way,
there is no such

thing as collateral damage for
a sadist, because the damage is

the entire goal of
their behavior.

MORGAN: In psych, we often
think, it's like that old adage,

"I want you to suffer
like I do."

Many psychopaths,

they enjoy the control
over the person,

and they actually enjoy
that person's fear,

their terror, their emotions,
and their suffering.

When we think about what has
gone on over the years in

social media and the kind of
bullying and harassment

and trolling behavior,

most of us, the line
that pulls us back is

we realize we don't want to
hurt another human being.

The difference is a sadistic

offender doesn't mind
creating victims.

I have many --
what I call them projects.

They were different
people in the town

that I followed, watched.

Tying somebody up
is very personal.

It can give an individual
like Dennis Rader

the ultimate power
over their victim.

He derives joy from watching
another individual suffer.

The same sadistic tendency
and drive that we see in BTK,

we also see in criminals
like Gary Sampson.

Sampson victimized
complete strangers,

some of whom were even
trying to help him.

This exemplifies
his sadistic tendencies

to use people as objects.

I mean, he didn't even care
about their names.

They're basically
a means to an end for him.

Sampson's describing
a level of force and violence

that is so excessive
to what he needed to do

to render the victim helpless
and to gain compliance

that you can only think
he must have been

enjoying this and getting
a high off of it.

It gives him a sense
of power,

and it drove that urge
to do it again.

He was finding ways
to prolong the deaths,

trying to find different ways
to do it in order

to satisfy that urge.

He wanted to torture
this person.

He was not trying
to do it quickly.

He was trying to inflict
as much pain as possible,

and that is sadism.

Sadists might modify
their behavior in order to

keep chasing that high
and to keep fulfilling

that need to watch someone
else suffer.

And that's also true
for individuals who

engage in sexual sadism,
like Michael Ross.

[Ross laughing]

[laughs]

SAHNI: Ross does a really good
job of articulating --

it was the power he was after.

And it was about that urge to
control another human being --

evoking fear, evoking fight,
evoking humiliation,

evoking pain and torture.

That is the high
that he craved.

And once he got a taste of it,
he needed to keep it going.

The importance of
the strangulation is key here.

For Ross,
it allows him to feel

the individual's life
being drained from them.

It's an intimate
connection that

gives him
a sexual fulfillment.

It's the epitome
of sexual sadism.

SAHNI: What's interesting about
Ross is that while the crimes

are so sadistic
and so violent,

he blended into
everyday society.

He graduated from
a very well-respected school.

Psychopathic individuals,
they're oftentimes people

publicly who we might walk
right past.

The risk is right in front of
you, and you don't see it.

MORGAN: They're good
at disarming people,

because they seem nice.

There's another trait
in psychopathy.

When we talk
about superficial charm,

it's a behavioral strategy on
the part of a psychopath to get

what they want -- everybody
likes a little flattery,

and they don't see
the wolf coming.

MAN: Please state your full name
for the record.

[indistinct]
It's Theodore Bundy.

Theodore Robert Bundy.

I have got to keep
myself together.

I have got to stay calm.

I've got to keep my presence
of mind, because as long as I

do that,
I'm gonna beat these people.

DERIGHT: Charm can be anything
from smiling to someone

to building them up and giving
them compliments.

We all use charm to try to get
something that we want or in

order to make a situation
happen -- in a psychopath,

it's going to make
someone disarmed.

Ted Bundy is perhaps one of

the most notorious examples of
superficial charm and glibness.

His smile, his wit,
his demeanor

helped him meet
and become close

with his victims so that
he was ultimately able to

murder them.

Using charm allows you to be
a wolf in sheep's clothing

and Ted Bundy is not alone in
using charm to lure victims.

One of the examples of
superficial charm

is in the case of
Anthony Allen Shore.

He's studying the things that
might put her at ease

or might make her in a position
to do what he wants to.

He's literally
and figuratively learning how to

speak her language in order

to get closer to her.

MORGAN: For psychopaths,
charm is a deadly weapon.

It blinds us
when we're normal

to the danger that is
in front of us.

It disarms us
and makes them more lethal.

We don't see it coming,
and they know it.

We'd like to think that
most people would accept

the rejection, apologize.

Many psychopaths don't have
a good appreciation of how well

they're doing in their charm,
and he may have thought it was

working very well, and then
when he was rejected,

got angry.

He has a tourniquet with him,

which is not the thing
you take on a date.

He's got to be up close

and personal to strangle
someone with a tourniquet.

SAHNI: When we think about
these different traits

we've discussed
in psychopathy,

one of the important
distinguishing factors between

those of us who aren't
psychopathic and those who are,

is our willingness to
manipulate others to a degree

that creates harm.

Manipulation is something
that we use

in our everyday life
all the time.

Trying to get someone to buy
something if you're in sales,

trying to get your toddler
to eat their vegetables.

Manipulation is not necessarily
a -- a negative quality.

It's a human quality
that exists in all of us.

But then also manipulation
is yet another tool

that psychopaths use
in order to victimize people.

TUSSEY: On the surface,
John Wayne Gacy

looked like a regular
community member.

He was even involved in
local politics.

He performed as Pogo the Clown
at kids' parties.

MORGAN:
Gacy lured people in with

the promise of getting
a construction job.

That was a manipulation.
That's a very appealing offer.

There's nothing
suspicious about it.

I mean, "Oh, I'll get a job,"
and it's disarming.

SAHNI: He would create
a scenario that he was gonna

show them a magic trick to get
victims to voluntarily

agree to be tied up.

Most of us are sitting here
thinking, "I would never let

someone just tie me up,"

so that should give you
the litmus test and the measure

for how successful he was.

Michael Hernandez is another
good example of someone

who uses manipulation to lure
his victims in.

Jaime was good friends
with Hernandez.

He had no reason
to think that

Hernandez would do anything
to harm him.

Someone like Hernandez
doesn't return loyalties.

He uses them
to exploit someone.

He sees them
as signs of weakness.

MORGAN:
It is a manipulation.

They say whatever they need
to tell you to do it,

and then we end up
believing if we follow

their instructions,
then we believe it'll be okay.

I think that's what Jaime's
doing in this setting,

but with psychopaths
who manipulate,

they're never gonna
let you go.

Hernandez doesn't make
any real attempts to cover up

the fact that he manipulated
Jaime, that that was his agenda,

that was his goal, and that is
what he did to his friend.

That is one of
those traits we see in

psychopathic individuals.

We see that display of
just willing

to look at humans as
transactional characters.

They have something
that I want.

How do I get it?
That lack of empathy

is definitely a marker
of psychopathic behavior.

Lack of empathy is
a detachment

from the typical emotions
that we,

as humans, experience when
we interact with each other.

Jeffrey Dahmer sought out

his victims ultimately wanting
to turn them into human zombies

so that they had no real

ability to interact with him,
all for his own pleasure,

with zero remorse
for what he did.

For most of us,
we feel bad that somebody

else is struggling
or suffering.

With a psychopathic individual,

they're not bothered by harm
and pain and suffering.

They exhibit
that lack of empathy,

that lack of connectedness,

even to their own
family members.

We see that in the case of
John Hummel.

Lack of empathy,

it definitely impact
someone's ability

to maintain
long-term relationships.

So for Hummel, rather than
problem solving in the way that

other individuals might,

when we have relationship
issues, he gets rid of his

problem by getting rid of
his family.

TUSSEY: He discusses it
so calmly.

There's nothing
about his actions,

non-verbal or verbal,
that suggests he feels remorse

beyond the superficial

acknowledgement that
he feels bad about it.

He kills
his entire family,

and despite the fact that
people would say he was

attached to his daughter,
that he loved her,

he was enjoying being
a father and a parent,

she was dispensable
when, ultimately,

her needs conflicted
with his needs.

And that's the key, really,
is that for some individuals,

their psychopathic tendencies
stay in check for many,

many years,
but the minute that their need

comes into conflict
with other people's needs,

they choose themselves.

He's talking
about being detached.

He's talking about
not feeling the closeness

that he should have
for his family members.

He's not thinking
about what happened

after and getting
pleasure out of it.

He's not reveling in it,
but he's not remorseful, either.

Not only is he unable to
express the typical emotions

that you would see in someone

who's experiencing
the loss of someone else,

let alone their own child,

he's not even able
to do that for himself.

His relationship with death
is really him saying,

"I don't really know
how to feel.

"I -- I don't
have these positive

or negative feelings
associated with it."

One thing we see with both
John Hummel and Kevin Davis is

that they both have a very
significant lack of empathy,

to a degree that

they're able to victimize
people in their own family.

He's saying that it's
a beautiful thing that happened,

and he's in awe of people

that can do this in such
beautiful and creative ways.

He's not showing any remorse
for doing what he did.

He's not showing any regret
that it was his mother.

SAHNI: There's a complete
lack of empathy.

He knew that
she was struggling.

He dragged her from room to
room and then continued

to inflict pain on her
and inflict harm on her.

And the way he describes this,
there's no emotion there.

SAHNI: Individuals
who show real remorse,

sincere remorse, are able to
focus on how their actions

impacted the victim.

Davis is really
illustrating that

he doesn't distinguish --
people are people.

People are just pieces of
meat -- he needed to do it.

He's done it now.

He's satisfied that urge,
that curiosity.

This lack of regard that
we see in individuals

who have little
or no empathy

can sometimes
propel them to take advantage

of other people, as well.

Using someone
or a family member

to get what
they need or want.

Parasitic lifestyle is another
trait that we often see in

psychopaths, very similar to
a parasitic relationship in

the animal world.

The parasite
is taking, taking,

taking and giving
almost nothing back.

They're able to victimize
people in their own family,

and when the livelihood
is threatened,

okay, well that's enough of
you -- you need to be killed.

What would being a success,
what does that mean, you know?

Money?

If I didn't have two
or three girls to help me,

I would pretty much be lost,
and I wouldn't know what

the hell I'm doing.

TUSSEY: Charles Manson
exemplifies parasitic living.

He lived with his followers,
he asked them to carry out

tasks on his behalf,

and he took advantage
of them.

They catered to him,
and he allowed them to.

He even called them
the Family.

As humans, we all
like to feel safe.

We need to feel safe.
That's one of our basic needs.

We enjoy feeling taken care of
or catered to.

But someone who is living
a parasitic lifestyle is

an individual who takes what
they need

or what they want from whoever
they can take it from.

They live off of others.

And Grant Amato is a great
example of that.

Mr. Amato's living at home and
annoyed when his parents say,

"You need to be making
a contribution."

It's his view that he shouldn't
have to do anything,

and he views
their demand as unreasonable.

MORGAN:
As we see in psychopathy,

they prefer fantasy
to reality.

He will do everything
he can to

preserve his relationship
with his internet model,

and he doesn't pay
any attention

to the actual family
around him.

He has the feeling that
he's entitled to their money.

He doesn't have
to ask to take it.

It's his for the taking,
it's an extension

of that view of other people
are things from --

for me to benefit from.

He's almost blaming them for
expecting him to have a job

or for them refusing
to continue to pay

for this virtual girlfriend.

His entire life,

his goal is seeking his own
pleasure, and that's at

the expense of everyone else
who's willing to fund it.

He couldn't forgive
his family

for basically ruining
his fantasy love.

Instead,
he murders his family.

SAHNI: We've talked about
just some of the traits

and behaviors
and the psychopathic features

we look at in psychopathy
as experts.

MORGAN: We don't know
who's gonna be a psychopath.

So I think learning about
the traits means we can

examine in our relationships

with other people,
to what degree is this

feature going on?

Then we have to ask,
when is it dangerous?

So when people realize
they might be in danger,

it can save our lives.

These traits live in all of us
at different times in

our lives,
different life situations

and circumstances,
and this is what makes

psychopathic behavior so scary
for everybody is there are

times we don't see any warning
signs, and they do live and walk

among us -- keep your eyes open
for the signs.