Original subtitles

- -Captions by VITAC-- www.vitac.com

CAPTIONS PAID FOR BY DISCOVERY COMMUNICATIONS

Hummel: I DON'T KNOW.

I JUST DON'T THINK THE WAY OTHER PEOPLE DO.

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BACK IN THE BEGINNING, EVERYTHING WAS FINE.

YOU KNOW, WHEN ME AND HER FIRST STARTED GOING OUT,

BEFORE WE EVEN GOT MARRIED.

AND EVERYTHING JUST STARTED GOING DOWNHILL FROM THERE.

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SHE WAS SO BRIGHT AND CURIOUS AND...

ABSORB EVERYTHING YOU TELL HER AND ALWAYS ASKING QUESTIONS.

I'D BE SITTING ON THE BACK PORCH SMOKING A CIGARETTE,

AND SHE'D HAD ME TELLING HER ABOUT INSECTS

AND STUFF THAT'S OUT IN THE WOODS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

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THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME THOUGHTS LIKE THAT

EVER STARTED CREEPING IN MY MIND,

AND THEN IT JUST KEPT BUILDING AND BUILDING

UNTIL FINALLY IT JUST, YOU KNOW, ERUPTED LIKE THAT.

YOU KNOW, NO OTHER TIME IN MY LIFE

HAD I EVER THOUGHT ABOUT KILLING ANYBODY OR EVEN HURTING ANYBODY.

Morgan: HAVING VIOLENT THOUGHTS IS ABSOLUTELY NORMAL FOR US

AS HUMAN BEINGS.

SOME PEOPLE WORRY ABOUT --

THEY GO, "OH, MY GOD, I HAD THIS THOUGHT.

IT MAKES ME A BAD PERSON."

NO, IT DOESN'T.

IT ISN'T THOUGHTS.

IT'S WHAT WE DO WITH THOSE THOUGHTS.

FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN'T PROCESS EMOTIONS NORMALLY,

THEN THOUGHTS ARE FASCINATING

AND THEY COME BACK AROUND AND AROUND.

Termini: OFTEN PSYCHOPATHS WON'T TELL PEOPLE

ABOUT THE THOUGHTS THEY'RE HAVING

OR THE URGES THEY'RE HAVING

SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT ANYBODY TO STOP THEM.

BUT IT'S GENERALLY NOT OUT OF A SENSE OF SHAME

OF THOSE THOUGHTS.

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[ CRICKETS CHIRPING ]

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Hummel: YOU KNOW, I LEFT PRETENDING TO GO TO WORK,

EVEN THOUGH I WAS OFF THAT NIGHT.

AND THEN RETURNED BACK HOME WHEN THEY WAS ASLEEP.

I WAS STANDING THERE IN THE BEDROOM.

I WAS CONTEMPLATING ON MY HEAD, GOING THROUGH IT.

AFTER THAT IT WAS JUST... YOU KNOW, A BLUR, BASICALLY.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS 30 MINUTES.

SOMETIMES IN THOSE MOMENTS, TIME STANDS STILL.

IF 30 MINUTES WAS ACTUALLY 30 SECONDS,

HE COULD HAVE BEEN THINKING A VARIETY OF THINGS,

SPECULATING, OF COURSE.

"WILL I GET CAUGHT? HOW WILL I COVER MY TRACKS?"

Berrill: I DON'T THINK MORALITY WAS THE OVERRIDING ISSUE.

THE ISSUE REALLY PROBABLY WAS, "COULD I DO IT?

AND IF I DID IT, YOU KNOW, WOULD I BE CAUGHT?"

Producer: WHAT HAPPENED?

I MEAN, I CAN DISTINCTLY REMEMBER,

BUT I REALLY DON'T WANT TO.

I MEAN --

YEAH, JUST, YOU KNOW, IMMEDIATELY START THINKING

ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE, LIKE A FAVORITE MOVIE OR SONG

OR TAKE OUT A BOOK AND START READING.

IT'S JUST TOO HARD.

I DON'T WANT TO REALLY THINK ABOUT IT.

I-I DON'T WANT TO REMEMBER THEM THAT WAY.

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I THOUGHT IT SOUNDED LIKE A PRETTY REALISTIC DESCRIPTION

FOR PEOPLE WHO SUFFER FROM THIS OBSESSIONAL LOOP.

AND IT'S A DISTRACTION TASK

THAT TRIES TO KEEP THE IDEA AT BAY

RATHER THAN DEALING WITH IT.

IT'S NOT EMPATHY.

IT'S NOT REMORSE OVER WHAT HE DID.

HE'S ESSENTIALLY SAYING,

"I DON'T LIKE THINKING ABOUT THAT."

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Hummel: I HATE WHAT I DID.

EVERYBODY SHOULD HATE WHAT I DID,

BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY HATE ME FOREVER.

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Hummel: PEOPLE WANT TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND.

SOMETIMES THERE'S NOT AN EXPLANATION.

SOMETIMES THINGS JUST HAPPEN.

THERE'S NO RHYME OR REASON TO IT.

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THESE ARE SOME OF THE TEXT MESSAGES

BETWEEN JOHN HUMMEL AND HIS GIRLFRIEND.

"JOHN, YOU'RE MARRIED AND I'M NOT A HOME WRECKER."

HE REPLIES, "I KNOW AND I LOVE THAT YOU'RE MY FRIEND

AND THAT YOU WILL NOT LET ME HURT HER.

THAT'S THE LAST THING I WANT TO DO. SO THANK YOU."

THIS IS QUITE MANIPULATIVE BY SAYING, YOU KNOW,

APPRECIATING HOW MUCH SHE DOESN'T WANT TO WRECK THE HOME

WHEN IN FACT HE'S PLANNING TO PURSUE

WRECKING THE HOME IN THE ULTIMATE WAY.

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Raghavan: "HOW MANY YEARS DID IT TAKE YOU

TO FIGURE OUT ALL THE RIGHT THINGS TO SAY?"

"I'M JUST SAYING WHAT I'M THINKING AND FEELING."

SHE THINKS HE'S BEING MANIPULATIVE TO GET SEX,

AND SHE'S BEING MISTRUSTFUL,

LIKE, "WHY IS HE BEING SO FLATTERING AND SO INTENSE?"

Tussey: IT'S POSSIBLE SHE COULD BE PICKING UP

ON HIS ATTEMPT TO BE CUNNING AND MANIPULATIVE

OR SUPERFICIALLY CHARMING.

YES, THAT'S DEFINITELY A PSYCHOPATHIC TRAIT.

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AND HERE IS HER RESPONSE.

"YOU DO NOT HAVE SYMPATHY FOR YOUR WIFE

WHILE SHE WAS CARRYING YOUR CHILD."

Raghavan: SHE'S PICKING UP THAT HE'S NOT BEING SENSITIVE

OR REMORSEFUL OR CONSIDERATE,

THAT HIS WIFE IS PREGNANT AND HE SIMPLY DOESN'T CARE.

SO HE SENT THIS TEXT ON THE MORNING OF THE MURDERS.

AND HE SAYS, "I HAD A NICE DREAM.

WE WERE MAKING COOKIES TOGETHER."

HE'S SORT OF STARTING TO GO INTO THE PHASE OF DOMESTICITY

AFTER, YOU KNOW, A MONTH OF OBSESSIVE SEX TEXTS.

SHE CONSUMES HIM.

SHE CONSUMES HIS REALITY, HIS DREAM LIFE, HIS FUTURE PLAN,

ANYTHING, ANYTHING BUT HIS CURRENT LIFE

THAT FEELS DREARY AND A DEAD END.

IT NEVER CROSSED MY MIND TO LEAVE.

THERE WAS NO THOUGHT PROCESS, IT WAS JUST...

KIND OF LIKE ANIMAL INSTINCT.

IT WAS JUST, "TAKE THEM ALL OUT."

I'VE ALWAYS KEPT THINGS TO MYSELF, I DON'T...

I DON'T SHARE MY FEELINGS AND EMOTIONS WELL.

BECAUSE IF I HAD, THEY'D STILL BE ALIVE,

I BELIEVE.

I MEAN, IF I COULD GO BACK IN TIME AGAIN

AND STOP MYSELF FROM DOING WHAT I DID,

EVEN IF IT MEANT KILLING MYSELF JUST SO THEY WOULD LIVE,

I WOULD DO IT.

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YOU CAN'T PUT THE FEELINGS THAT YOU'RE FEELING

INTO WORDS EITHER.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WENT THROUGH HIS MIND.

Woman: HE'LL GET WHAT'S COMING TO HIM, I'M SURE.

AND I HOPE IT'S TO THE FULL EXTENT.

AND WITH THE CONVERSATION WE HAVE WITH HIS FAMILY,

THEY FEEL THE SAME WAY.

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I HAVE TWO POEMS THAT I WROTE THAT I PLAN ON SAYING.

THEY'RE MY FINAL...

UH, MY LAST WORDS OR WHATEVER.

ONE I CALLED "THE CEMENT BOX."

AS I SIT IN THIS CEMENT BOX, I GET LOST AMONGST MY THOUGHTS.

I THINK ABOUT THE TIMES I'VE HAD

ALL THE GOOD, EVEN THE BAD.

I'M NOT SAD AND I'LL NOT CRY.

I'LL BE WITH JESUS WHEN I DIE.

I ENJOYED SPENDING TIME WITH HER,

PLAYING WITH HER, WATCHING TV,

ESPECIALLY WATCHING CARTOONS I WATCHED AS A KID,

LIKE "THE SMURFS" OR "ALVIN AND THE CHIPMUNKS"

AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

TO HAVE HER ENJOY WHAT I ENJOYED AS A CHILD

REALLY MEANT A LOT TO ME.

PSYCHOPATHS OFTEN HAVE A CALLOUS LACK OF REGARD

FOR HUMANITY, REGARDLESS OF THE AGE RANGE.

SOME INDIVIDUALS WILL SAY,

"WE'LL ACTUALLY DRAW LIMITS, THOUGH,

AND SAY NO CHILDREN," BUT CERTAINLY FOR OTHERS,

THEY REALLY DON'T HAVE A DISTINCTION.

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MR. HUMMEL SAYS, "I FEEL A STRONG BOND WITH YOU

THAT I HAVE NEVER HAD WITH ANYONE ELSE."

TO WHICH SHE REPLIED, "NOT EVEN WITH YOUR WIFE?"

AND HE SAID NO.

AND SHE SAID, "THEN WHY DID YOU MARRY HER?"

AND HIS RESPONSE WAS,

"I TRULY CANNOT THINK OF A REASON EXCEPT FOR MY KID."

Raghavan: I THINK THE WHOLE FAMILY UNIT FELT LIKE THE TRAP.

HE HARBORED RESENTMENT AGAINST THE WHOLE UNIT

AND THAT WOULD JUST,

YOU KNOW, DEFINITELY GENERALIZE TO THE DAUGHTER.

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I WAS OUT OF WORK FOR FOUR YEARS BECAUSE OF MY BACK

AND COULDN'T DO NOTHING,

COULDN'T DO NOTHING AROUND THE HOUSE.

I HAVE A FATHER-IN-LAW WHO FEELS

THAT I SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO MORE WHEN I CAN'T.

AND I TRY TO EXPLAIN THEM,

"YOU KNOW, I DO WHAT I CAN DO WHEN I CAN DO IT."

THEN YOU GET TO THE FEELING TO WHERE, YOU KNOW,

EVERYTHING IS MY FAULT.

AN ASTEROID COULD STRIKE THE EARTH,

AND SOMEHOW THAT'S MY FAULT.

Morgan: I THINK HE DOES SEE HIMSELF AS A VICTIM.

THERE'S ALSO THAT MOMENT WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT THE ASTEROID.

DO YOU SEE THE LOOK ON HIS FACE?

YOU CAN SEE THE ANGER RIGHT THERE.

Raghavan: IT FEELS LIKE AS HE STARTS TO BROOD,

HE TAKES ON MORE AND MORE QUALITIES

THAT WE WOULD SEE IN SOMEONE WHO IS PSYCHOPATHIC.

HIS ATTENTION IS NARROWING AND NARROWING

AND FOCUSING ON HIM AND HIS PAIN AND HIS RAGE

AND THEN STARTING TO BLAME THE WIFE AND THE DAD

FROM KEEPING HIM FROM WHAT HE SEES AS THE SOLUTION.

THE SOLUTION, OF COURSE, IN HIS HEAD

IS A MAGICAL SOLUTION.

HOW IS IT MAGICAL?

HIS WIFE WILL GO AWAY. HIS BABY WILL GO AWAY.

HIS FATHER WILL GO AWAY. THE HOUSE WILL GO AWAY.

EVERYTHING WILL BE WIPED CLEAN.

AND HE'LL START OVER IN THIS FANTASY RELATIONSHIP

WHERE HE'LL FEEL LIKE A MAN AGAIN

AND EVERYTHING WILL BE PERFECT.

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WHEN I DO SOMETHING RIGHT, NO ONE REMEMBERS.

WHEN I DO SOMETHING WRONG, NO ONE FORGETS.

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Hummel: I DON'T FEAR DEATH.

I'M NOT LOOKING FORWARD TO IT EITHER.

I KILLED MY WIFE, JOY.

I KILLED HER FATHER NEXT, EDDIE.

THEN I KILLED JODI.

WELL, IT'S LIKE -- IT WAS LIKE, UH...

...I DON'T KNOW.

KIND OF LIKE ALMOST LIKE WATCHING A MOVIE,

THROUGH, LIKE, A FIRST-PERSON POINT OF VIEW.

WELL, SEE, AT THE TIME I COMMITTED THE CRIMES,

I WAS AN ATHEIST.

IT WAS LIKE I WAS CONTEMPLATING TO KILL MY FAMILY,

AND THEN THE LAST -- LIKE THE LAST THOUGHT WAS,

"YOU DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN GOD."

Tussey: I THINK HE IS USING THE FACT THAT HE WAS AN ATHEIST

AS, YOU KNOW, A WAY TO AVOID RESPONSIBILITY.

ONE OF THE CHARACTERISTICS WE SEE SOMETIMES IN PSYCHOPATHS

IS FAILURE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY.

AND WHEN SOMEONE'S FACING IMMINENT DEATH,

IT'S COMMON TO WANT TO DO THAT.

AS ONE NOT GO TO YOUR GRAVE, SO TO SPEAK,

FEELING GUILTY ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE DONE.

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WHILE I WAS SITTING IN COUNTY AWAITING MY TRIAL,

I ACTUALLY PICKED UP THE BIBLE FOR THE FIRST TIME

AND ACTUALLY READ IT FOR MYSELF TO SEE WHAT IT SAID.

AND WITHIN A COUPLE OF HOURS, I'M DOWN ON MY KNEES PRAYING

AND ASKING GOD FOR FORGIVENESS AND TAKE -- TAKE ME BACK.

IF HE WAS TO LET ME OUT TODAY,

I WOULDN'T GET SO MUCH AS A FINE FOR JAYWALKING OR LITTERING.

I'D BE A MODEL CITIZEN.

THEY'RE TRYING TO BE CHARMING AND SUPERFICIAL,

AND THEY'LL SAY, "YES, I'VE LEARNED.

I'VE CHANGED MY WAYS. I'VE BEEN A MODEL PRISONER.

I'M SAFE TO GO OUT."

SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY THEY CAN CHANGE.

IN MY EXPERIENCE, I DON'T THINK THEY DO.

Hummel: IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT MAN THINKS OF ME,

IT ONLY MATTERS WHAT GOD THINKS OF ME.

GOD'S FORGIVEN ME AND FORGOTTEN IT,

SO THAT'S ALL THAT REALLY MATTERS.

Raghavan: HE'S JUST OVERLAID ONE FANTASY WITH ANOTHER.

HE HAS NOT REALLY TAKEN ACCOUNTABILITY.

HE'S STILL NOT ABLE TO FACE WHAT HE DID,

AND BY DENYING AND REPRESSING THE MEMORIES,

HE DOESN'T HAVE TO FACE THE HORROR OF HIS ACTIONS.

HE'S REPLACED HIS GUILT AND SHAME

WITH SORT OF THIS INSTANT FORGIVENESS BY JESUS.

Hummel: THE SECOND POEM THAT I PLAN ON SAYING

DURING MY LAST WORDS IS A KIND OF A PARODY

OF THE "NOW I LAY ME DOWN TO SLEEP"

THAT THEY TEACH CHILDREN.

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A TEXAS DEATH-ROW INMATE

HAS BEEN GIVEN A 60-DAY EXECUTION STAY

BECAUSE OF THE CORONAVIRUS.

JOHN WILLIAM HUMMEL

WAS SCHEDULED TO RECEIVE A LETHAL INJECTION TOMORROW

AFTER A TEXAS COURT OF CRIMINAL APPEALS

HAD REJECTED ALL OF HIS GROUNDS FOR APPEALS YESTERDAY.

HOWEVER, THEY DID AGREE TO POSTPONE THE EXECUTION

BECAUSE OF THE RESOURCES REQUIRED.

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