Original subtitles

♪♪

[ SIGHS ]

WELL, WE WERE QUITE SCARED TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH,

AND...THIS IS REALLY --

YOU KNOW, FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO HAPPEN IN A SMALL TOWN

LIKE THIS, YOU JUST CAN'T BELIEVE IT.

Woman: THREE PEOPLE ARE DEAD FROM MULTIPLE STAB WOUNDS,

AND STATE POLICE ARE CALLING THEIR DEATHS A HOMICIDE.

AT THIS POINT IN TIME, WE HAVEN'T DETERMINED WHO IT IS,

SO WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY MAY BE HEADED TO.

♪♪

♪♪

[ EXHALES SHAKILY ]

♪♪

Man: THERE'S A THING INSIDE OF ME, IT'S LIKE...

THE APPETITE.

IT'S LIKE A WOLF THAT'S...

FILLING...THE HUNGER.

♪♪

♪♪

Detective: OKAY, OKAY.

[ DETECTIVE LAUGHS ]

♪♪

[ SIGHS ]

♪♪

- Detective: I'M SORRY? - BILBO BAGGINS.

BY BRINGING TOLKIEN INTO THE CONVERSATION, HE'S, UH...

WELL, HE'S DEFLECTING IN A LOT OF WAYS.

HE'S SORT OF LEADING THEM DOWN

A PATH THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHY HE WOULD BE THERE.

I THINK AT THE CORE OF

THE PSYCHOPATHIC PERSONALITY IS THE DESIRE TO CONTROL.

YOU LEARN TO MANIPULATE VERY WELL AND TO NOT FEEL GUILTY

CERTAINLY ABOUT MANIPULATING.

YOU CAN OFTEN GET MORE INFORMATION FROM

A PSYCHOPATH IF YOU'RE WILLING TO BE FLEXIBLE IN

YOUR INTERVIEW -- IN SOME WAYS,

LET THEM TAKE CONTROL AND LEAD THE INTERVIEW,

AND THEN WEAVE IN AND OUT AND TRY TO GET

MORE INFORMATION THAT WAY.

NO, I CANNOT THINK OF ANY GOOD REASON

SOMETHING LIKE THAT COULD HAPPEN.

THE IDEA THAT HE WOULD SHAKE HIS HEAD, YES,

WHEN HE'S SAYING NO IS ANOTHER TELL.

NO.

A LOT OF TIMES, DURING INTERROGATIONS,

PEOPLE'S BODY LANGUAGE RUNS CONTRARY TO WHAT

THEY'RE ACTUALLY SAYING.

Tussey: WHAT OFTEN, IN MY EXPERIENCE,

MAKES PSYCHOPATHS BETTER AT LYING

IS THE GLIB AND SUPERFICIAL CHARM THAT

THEY'RE ABLE TO USE AS PART OF THAT.

THEY COME ACROSS VERY LIKABLE.

♪♪

♪♪

...AND HE HADN'T HEARD ANYTHING.

MM-HMM.

♪♪

Detective: MM-HMM.

♪♪

Tussey: UH-OH -- AT THIS POINT, HIS STORY HAS CHANGED,

AND IT'S NOT UNCOMMON THAT INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE

PSYCHOPATHIC OR OVERLY CONFIDENT IN THEIR ABILITY

TO JUST SHIFT AND -- AND FOOL THE OTHER PERSON THAT

THEY'RE TALKING TO.

SO HE'S NOT VERY APOLOGETIC ABOUT CHANGING HIS STORY.

♪♪

MOST ANIMALS, WHEN THEY'RE CORNERED, ATTACK, COUNTERATTACK.

DEPENDING ON HOW PRONE TO VIOLENCE THEY ARE,

THEY MIGHT BECOME VIOLENT.

THEY CAN ALSO RESORT TO WHAT -- WHAT HAS BEEN REFERRED TO

AS KIND OF THAT PSYCHOPATHIC DOUBLE TALK.

THEY'RE REALLY SORT OF JUST WRAPPING WORDS AROUND

SORT OF AN EMPTY VESSEL AND TWISTING IT INTO A PRETZEL,

AND THEY LEAVE YOU TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT IS

THEY'RE SAYING.

ALL RIGHT.

I THINK HE PROBABLY IS AWARE IT'S GOING

TO BE VERY TRICKY TO GET OUT OF DNA,

AND IT'S POSSIBLE

HE'S ALSO THINKING, "YEAH, IT'S OKAY.

"THEY THINK THEY GOT ME THERE,

BUT I'LL STILL FIND ANOTHER WAY TO GET AROUND THIS."

MM-HMM.

♪♪

Berrill: I THINK PSYCHOPATHS TEND TO BE GOOD LIARS.

THEY CERTAINLY DON'T FEEL A SENSE OF GUILT, AND DEPENDING

ON HOW BRIGHT THEY ARE,

YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHEN THEY CAN MESS UP.

[ SNIFFLES ]

[ SNIFFLES ]

Detective: YEAH.

Tussey: I AM STRUCK BY WHAT APPEARS TO BE SHALLOW AFFECT,

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE TRAITS OF PSYCHOPATHY.

AND THAT'S SORT OF, "OH,

"I KNOW SOMETHING BAD'S HAPPENING OR SAD,

SO I SHOULD CRY, SO I'M GONNA CRY."

THERE'S NOT A LOT OF DEPTH TO HIS,

YOU KNOW, APPARENT SADNESS HERE.

RIGHT.

Detective: OKAY.

Detective: UH-HUH.

♪♪

[ SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY ]

♪♪

♪♪

IT'S AN EXALTED STATE FOR SOME, THEY'RE LIKE GOD FOR THAT

MOMENT, BECAUSE, REALLY,

IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A MURDERER

OR SOMEONE WHO DOES SERIAL KILLINGS,

THEY HAVE THE CAPACITY TO DETERMINE WHO'S GONNA LIVE

AND DIE, SO THERE'S SOMETHING GOD-LIKE ABOUT THAT.

YOU'LL SEE THIS -- THIS GRANDIOSITY,

POMPOUSNESS, AND SMUGNESS ABOUT WHAT IT IS THEY'VE DONE.

Detective: WHAT MADE YOU CONTINUE?

Berrill: ANOTHER PERSON MIGHT HAVE SAID, I KNOW WHERE

HE LIVES, I'VE BEEN INVITED IN.

I'M GONNA HANG OUT, I'LL COME BACK

ANOTHER DAY AND REVISIT THIS, YOU KNOW?

BUT -- BUT HE FELT COMPELLED TO STAY

AND KILL THREE PEOPLE.

♪♪

Tussey: I THINK IT JUST SPEAKS TO HIS CALLOUS

LACK OF REGARD FOR HUMANITY.

HE MADE UP HIS MIND. HE HAD A GOAL.

HE WAS GOING TO TAKE JEFF OUT,

AND THE REST IS JUST COLLATERAL DAMAGE.

IT'S TOO BAD THEY HAD TO BE THERE

IS -- IS THE ATTITUDE HE SEEMS TO PORTRAY.

Berrill: FOR THE PSYCHOPATH,

THEY TYPICALLY KNOW BASICALLY WHY

THEY'RE DOING WHAT THEY'RE DOING,

BUT HIS EXPLANATION

IS INTELLECTUAL, AND TO ME, IT DOESN'T HOLD WATER, REALLY.

IT DOESN'T TIE IN AT ALL TO

THE AMOUNT OF RAGE THIS GUY REALLY HAS.

OKAY.

SURE.

♪♪

[ SIGHS ]

IT'S ALL RIGHT.

♪♪

♪♪

Berrill: IT IS COLD AND CALCULATED,

AND THERE'S NOT EVEN PSEUDO-EMOTION.

NATURALLY, HE'S GOT TO GO BACK IN AND KILL A LITTLE BOY

AND THE OTHER GUY HE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW SO NO ONE CAN

IDENTIFY HIM, AND THAT'S...

YOU KNOW, THAT'S A REAL BIG LEAP,

AND -- AND OFTEN THE FIRST KILLS ARE BIG LEAPS.

THIS IS WHERE HE SEEMS MOST PSYCHOPATHIC TO ME.

♪♪

♪♪

AND...

[ EXHALES SHAKILY ]

♪♪

♪♪

Detective: YEAH.

YOU REALLY ONLY MET HIM -- IT WAS THE VERY FIRST TIME...

YEAH.

Tussey: I THINK THERE ARE MOMENTS OF CANDOR HERE.

IT'S -- IT IS POSSIBLE

THAT THEY CAN HAVE MOMENTS WHERE THEY

ARE EVEN APPALLED BY THEIR OWN BEHAVIOR.

NOW HOW LONG OR HOW DEEP

OR HOW THAT MOMENT OF RECOGNITION REALLY STANDS

WITH THEM -- THAT'S -- THAT'S THE QUESTION.

PSYCHOPATHS TEND TO USE JARGON IN WHATEVER SITUATION

THEY'RE IN TO EXEMPLIFY THEIR VAST KNOWLEDGE

AND INTELLIGENCE,

AND I FIND IT'S THE GRANDIOSITY WITHIN THEM THAT SNEAKS OUT

AND WANTS TO USE THAT LANGUAGE AND VERNACULAR

IN WHATEVER CONTEXT.

Detective: YOU DID. ALL RIGHT.

♪♪

Detective: OKAY.

[ INHALES AND EXHALES HEAVILY ]

Detective: YEAH?

Tussey: PSYCHOPATHS ARE MOST OFTEN NOT REMORSEFUL.

I THINK IT MAKES IT A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT

FOR THE MAJORITY OF US TO WRAP OUR MIND AROUND

HOW HE COULD ENGAGE IN THOSE ACTIONS

AND BASICALLY SHOW NO REMORSE.

♪♪

Detective: ALL RIGHT? UM...

- OKAY.-OKAY?

Ormsby: OKAY.

YOU KNOW, THERE IS NO PAROLE IN MAINE.

HE WILL DIE IN PRISON.

Woman: UPON RECEIVING HIS SENTENCES FOR STABBING TO DEATH

JEFFREY RYAN, HIS 10-YEAR-OLD SON, JESSE, AND JASON DEHAHN,

ORMSBY DID NOT SHED A SINGLE TEAR.