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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:08,387 In 1986, in Shelton, Connecticut, a catastrophic 2 00:00:08,399 --> 00:00:17,520 and unexplained fire broke out, killing 32 people and destroying 50 homes. 3 00:00:17,521 --> 00:00:19,741 After ruling out arson and accident, the Shelton 4 00:00:19,753 --> 00:00:21,660 Police and Fire Department's mysteriously 5 00:00:21,661 --> 00:00:28,140 closed the case, and a 33rd person, survivor Liz Sherman, mysteriously disappeared. 6 00:00:28,141 --> 00:00:30,202 When the investigation into her disappearance 7 00:00:30,214 --> 00:00:32,240 was halted, abruptly just two weeks after it 8 00:00:32,241 --> 00:00:34,937 began, some cried conspiracy and brought up 9 00:00:34,949 --> 00:00:37,720 the name of a long-defung government agency, 10 00:00:37,721 --> 00:00:42,920 the Bureau for Paranormal Research and Defense, or BPRD as it's commonly known. 11 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:48,880 Disbanted in 1974, could this government agency still be secretly active? 12 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,862 Hello, I'm Jim More, will find out tonight 13 00:00:51,874 --> 00:00:55,000 when investigative journal looks into the BPRD. 14 00:00:55,001 --> 00:00:59,760 It's strange history and its possible involvement in world events, even today. 15 00:00:59,761 --> 00:01:05,680 All on this evening's investigative journal presents, the BPRD, declassified. 16 00:01:05,980 --> 00:01:20,024 I recently spoke with someone, not a conspiracy 17 00:01:20,036 --> 00:01:33,971 theorist, but rather a young woman who lost a friend that day in 1986. 18 00:01:33,983 --> 00:01:37,160 Dorothy Hutchins, childhood friend, and confidant of Liz Sherman. 19 00:01:37,161 --> 00:01:39,976 Dorothy Hutchins was Liz Sherman's 20 00:01:39,988 --> 00:01:42,880 best friend from preschool until the day Liz disappeared. 21 00:01:42,881 --> 00:01:43,881 22 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,073 "You said that you and Liz were childhood friends. 23 00:01:47,085 --> 00:01:49,880 You met in kindergarten. 24 00:01:49,881 --> 00:01:53,640 Talk about anything unusual that you remember happening with Liz. 25 00:01:53,890 --> 00:01:58,485 " The strangest memory of her was one day when 26 00:01:58,497 --> 00:02:03,000 it was during recess, and she was extremely upset. 27 00:02:03,001 --> 00:02:09,120 I didn't really understand why she was upset, and she pulled me away from the 28 00:02:09,121 --> 00:02:16,800 rest of the kids, and she was just sobbing, sobbing hysterically, and was just so tense 29 00:02:16,801 --> 00:02:20,860 upset, and was holding her fist like this 30 00:02:20,872 --> 00:02:29,760 clenched, and she said, and repeated, "I can turn my fingers black. I can't help it. 31 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,279 " Now, since that time, was there anything that 32 00:02:33,291 --> 00:02:37,720 you remember about Liz that strikes you as being odd? 33 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,703 "We're looking back those years in elementary school. 34 00:02:42,715 --> 00:02:46,720 There are random things going on. 35 00:02:46,721 --> 00:02:53,800 There are a lot of fires. Just spontaneous, small fires at school. 36 00:02:54,150 --> 00:02:58,520 " "But do you somehow connect those fires with Liz in your mind?" "I didn't. 37 00:02:58,521 --> 00:03:08,080 Then, now I don't know. 38 00:03:08,130 --> 00:03:10,283 " That kind of stuff doesn't happen to me 39 00:03:10,295 --> 00:03:12,960 anymore, or around me anymore, so it's a bit odd 40 00:03:12,961 --> 00:03:18,680 that those occurrences did happen when I was around her. 41 00:03:18,681 --> 00:03:23,640 Some say that the best evidence linking Liz Sherman's disappearance to the BPRD exists 42 00:03:23,641 --> 00:03:25,905 in the form of this videotape, released last 43 00:03:25,917 --> 00:03:28,400 year by the Justice Department under the Freedom 44 00:03:28,401 --> 00:03:31,326 of Information Act. It depicts a young girl's 45 00:03:31,338 --> 00:03:34,080 birthday party in the early 1980s attended by Liz Sherman. 46 00:03:34,081 --> 00:03:39,960 When we move in on Liz, we can clearly see what appears to be a flame emanating 47 00:03:39,961 --> 00:03:44,084 from her right hand, turning her fingers black, 48 00:03:44,096 --> 00:03:47,880 possible proof of her paranormal abilities. 49 00:03:47,881 --> 00:03:50,211 These frames may be the only evidence of 50 00:03:50,223 --> 00:03:52,800 Liz Sherman's strange powers, explaining why 51 00:03:52,801 --> 00:03:55,789 the BPRD was interested in her in the first place. 52 00:03:55,801 --> 00:03:59,080 "There was a huge fire in Shelton. 53 00:03:59,081 --> 00:04:05,800 A lot of people were killed. Describe that fire and tell us what happened. 54 00:04:05,801 --> 00:04:09,312 " "Well, it was in April of '86 and it was early morning. 55 00:04:09,324 --> 00:04:13,200 Most of us were getting ready 56 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:25,080 for school and sirens screaming, chaos." "Did you see Liz that day of that fire?" 57 00:04:25,105 --> 00:04:28,580 "I think I saw her standing in the flames. 58 00:04:28,592 --> 00:04:32,160 " "Standing in the flames was she on fire, was 59 00:04:32,385 --> 00:04:36,625 she hurt? She was looking at me. Just standing 60 00:04:36,637 --> 00:04:40,520 there, looking at me, and I was just being pulled away. 61 00:04:40,620 --> 00:04:45,460 " "Just fire flames all around her. 62 00:04:45,472 --> 00:04:49,920 " "You went to a memorial service for a number of the people. 63 00:04:50,070 --> 00:04:54,800 " "Right." "And they read off everyone's name. So what makes you think that 64 00:04:54,801 --> 00:04:58,363 Liz may have survived?" "Well, they didn't list her. 65 00:04:58,375 --> 00:05:02,120 They didn't find her body. 66 00:05:02,121 --> 00:05:04,204 I mean, they didn't find her alive or dead. 67 00:05:04,216 --> 00:05:06,520 " "Do you in your heart think that Liz caused that 68 00:05:06,595 --> 00:05:10,187 fire?" "I don't know." Could the BPRD have had 69 00:05:10,199 --> 00:05:13,960 something to do with Liz Sherman's disappearance 70 00:05:13,961 --> 00:05:17,073 in 1986 or in the catastrophic fire that 71 00:05:17,085 --> 00:05:20,600 killed 32 people? Could it be pulling strings 72 00:05:20,601 --> 00:05:23,697 in Washington to this day? Is the BPRD as 73 00:05:23,709 --> 00:05:27,120 some claim responsible for saving millions of 74 00:05:27,121 --> 00:05:30,039 Americans over the years or for putting us 75 00:05:30,051 --> 00:05:33,120 in unnecessary danger? Recently declassified 76 00:05:33,121 --> 00:05:36,513 documents suggest the latter, while others claim 77 00:05:36,525 --> 00:05:40,000 it is a fraud or a hoax. For the next 30 minutes, 78 00:05:40,001 --> 00:05:42,904 investigative journal will peel away the veneer 79 00:05:42,916 --> 00:05:47,600 and peek into the secret world of the BPRD if it does indeed still exist. 80 00:05:47,601 --> 00:06:02,080 Though the existence of a U.S.-led bureau for paranormal research and defense might 81 00:06:02,081 --> 00:06:04,529 sound far-fetched to some, there's a rich history of U. 82 00:06:04,541 --> 00:06:10,327 S. government agencies involvement with the occult. Dr. Anthony Levy teaches 83 00:06:10,339 --> 00:06:13,680 history and metaphysics at Bellman University. 84 00:06:13,681 --> 00:06:16,546 One of his courses, Occult and government in 20th 85 00:06:16,558 --> 00:06:19,200 century history, explains how various nations 86 00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:22,520 used occultists to shape history in the modern age. 87 00:06:23,020 --> 00:06:29,120 "You point to Rasputin as being the, if you will, father of the occult when you're a big one. 88 00:06:29,121 --> 00:06:33,320 " In terms of influence on a government, I think Rasputin in the 20th century 89 00:06:33,321 --> 00:06:35,574 was probably the, had the most power and the 90 00:06:35,586 --> 00:06:37,800 most influence based on his supposed occult learning. 91 00:06:37,801 --> 00:06:42,640 Now here you have, okay, you've got this scraggly monk. He supposedly had 92 00:06:42,641 --> 00:06:45,249 pessimistic powers and he had convinced Zara 93 00:06:45,261 --> 00:06:48,000 Nicholas, and particularly his wife Alexandra, 94 00:06:48,001 --> 00:06:51,040 that he had the power of saving their son. 95 00:06:51,041 --> 00:06:53,225 There are numerous documented cases of Rasputin 96 00:06:53,237 --> 00:06:55,340 supposedly curing this boy just by whispering in his ears. 97 00:06:55,341 --> 00:06:56,440 98 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:03,360 "Move forward a bit in history, staying in Europe, focus on the third Reich. 99 00:07:03,361 --> 00:07:08,800 There was a reliance with the third Reich on the occult as well, talk about that. 100 00:07:08,801 --> 00:07:11,311 " They, the third Reich actually developed 101 00:07:11,323 --> 00:07:14,160 what they called the occult bureau, and their 102 00:07:14,161 --> 00:07:17,952 whole thrust of the occult bureau was to try 103 00:07:17,964 --> 00:07:21,680 to harness occult powers for their own use. 104 00:07:21,681 --> 00:07:25,720 How elaborate did the reliance on the occult go with the third Reich? 105 00:07:25,770 --> 00:07:28,183 I think their major thrust was to get a hold 106 00:07:28,195 --> 00:07:30,400 of the spear of destiny, which is, well, 107 00:07:30,401 --> 00:07:33,295 this spear is the spear, the Roman centurion 108 00:07:33,307 --> 00:07:36,080 plunged it into his side when Jesus was on 109 00:07:36,081 --> 00:07:39,885 the cross and the Germans believed, and many 110 00:07:39,897 --> 00:07:46,800 people believed, that the spear, whoever controlled this spear, was invincible. 111 00:07:46,801 --> 00:07:49,397 We know that the US government also toyed with 112 00:07:49,409 --> 00:07:51,960 the idea of paranormal defense. For instance, 113 00:07:51,961 --> 00:07:57,800 in 1933, Franklin Roosevelt formed a group nicknamed The Watch, created to monitor and 114 00:07:57,801 --> 00:08:03,440 combat the enemy's occult bureau with his own brand of paranormal justice. 115 00:08:03,490 --> 00:08:05,576 Most people with the government will tell you 116 00:08:05,588 --> 00:08:07,640 The Watch was simply to monitor the activity 117 00:08:07,641 --> 00:08:11,280 of the third Reich, and see if there was a way to exploit it. 118 00:08:11,281 --> 00:08:13,439 And that people say that this from the watch 119 00:08:13,451 --> 00:08:15,720 that sort of opened the door for US government 120 00:08:15,721 --> 00:08:20,280 involvement in occult powers, and that led to the 121 00:08:20,281 --> 00:08:21,281 BPRD, the bureau for paranormal research and defense. 122 00:08:21,630 --> 00:08:24,836 Now, the US government will claim, yes, there 123 00:08:24,848 --> 00:08:28,280 is a BPRD, but the P never stood for paranormal, 124 00:08:28,281 --> 00:08:31,632 and the organization itself was disbanded in the mid-70s. 125 00:08:31,644 --> 00:08:35,160 Well, they claim they admit there 126 00:08:35,161 --> 00:08:38,000 was a BPRD, but they won't tell you what the P stood for. 127 00:08:38,001 --> 00:08:40,509 If you look at the documents where it's blacked 128 00:08:40,521 --> 00:08:43,040 out, the right number of letters is paranormal. 129 00:08:43,041 --> 00:08:45,160 What other word is there? 130 00:08:45,161 --> 00:08:47,309 To this day, there are operations within the 131 00:08:47,321 --> 00:08:49,480 US government that we hear little or nothing about. 132 00:08:49,481 --> 00:08:50,480 133 00:08:50,505 --> 00:08:55,800 Besides The Watch and the alleged BPRD, we also know about other top-secret government 134 00:08:55,801 --> 00:08:59,137 operations like MK Ultra, a secret government 135 00:08:59,149 --> 00:09:02,200 study into brainwashing and mind control. 136 00:09:02,201 --> 00:09:04,981 And during wartime, we hear about the exploits 137 00:09:04,993 --> 00:09:07,360 of Delta Force, an elite commando unit, 138 00:09:07,361 --> 00:09:11,480 whose existence the US government will not confirm or deny. 139 00:09:11,481 --> 00:09:13,715 Now some new information has come to light 140 00:09:13,727 --> 00:09:16,080 regarding the bureau for paranormal research and defense. 141 00:09:16,081 --> 00:09:19,571 This evidence, consisting of recently 142 00:09:19,583 --> 00:09:22,640 declassified documents and hard physical evidence, 143 00:09:22,641 --> 00:09:30,380 is making its way around the country in the form of a traveling show. 144 00:09:30,381 --> 00:09:33,156 Conway Ricker is an estate lawyer in Kettering, Ohio. 145 00:09:33,168 --> 00:09:38,287 He's also the grandson of US Army General Norton Ricker, a lifelong military 146 00:09:38,299 --> 00:09:41,520 veteran whose records are considered classified. 147 00:09:41,521 --> 00:09:46,280 On his deathbed, General Ricker told his grandson his most closely guarded secrets 148 00:09:46,281 --> 00:09:49,629 about his past association with the BPRD. 149 00:09:49,641 --> 00:09:53,000 This confession altered the course of Conway's life forever. 150 00:09:53,001 --> 00:10:01,740 So you begin a quest and how do you go about piecing together information? 151 00:10:01,741 --> 00:10:04,309 First thing I did is I started looking into 152 00:10:04,321 --> 00:10:06,960 the Freedom of Information Act and found out 153 00:10:07,085 --> 00:10:14,560 that I could get papers concerning my grandfather and the BPRD. 154 00:10:14,561 --> 00:10:16,162 But the problem is once you get them, they're marked out. 155 00:10:16,174 --> 00:10:17,680 Somebody has gone through with 156 00:10:17,681 --> 00:10:24,000 the black marker and marked out most of the information that you're looking for. 157 00:10:24,001 --> 00:10:27,430 So is there any information in these documents 158 00:10:27,442 --> 00:10:30,360 to suggest to you that there is a BPRD? 159 00:10:30,361 --> 00:10:36,420 Oh, BPRD is actually mentioned in there. It says it in there. So we know that that's 160 00:10:36,421 --> 00:10:39,376 real and I was able to go through and from the 161 00:10:39,388 --> 00:10:42,420 bits of information I was able to put together, find the BPRD. 162 00:10:42,421 --> 00:10:47,379 This building located on a New Jersey military 163 00:10:47,391 --> 00:10:52,609 base is the location that Conway Ricker claims is the headquarters of the BPRD. 164 00:10:52,621 --> 00:10:55,300 Though the government permitted us to shoot the exterior 165 00:10:55,301 --> 00:10:58,056 of this building, all requests to go inside 166 00:10:58,068 --> 00:11:00,900 or interview anyone we saw walking in or out 167 00:11:00,901 --> 00:11:05,880 were strictly forbidden. Conway Ricker has a trespassing warrant against him issued by 168 00:11:05,881 --> 00:11:09,004 this military base, requiring him to remain at 169 00:11:09,016 --> 00:11:12,220 least 200 yards from the building at all times. 170 00:11:12,221 --> 00:11:14,716 When you went to this location, the folks 171 00:11:14,728 --> 00:11:17,480 there didn't say this is the BPRD because the 172 00:11:17,481 --> 00:11:21,780 government claims there is no BPRD currently in existence. 173 00:11:22,030 --> 00:11:26,600 Right. Well, I've got memos that say that it does exist. I mean, they claim that 174 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,560 it's been disbanded, but it's still operating. 175 00:11:30,561 --> 00:11:35,480 While some believe that a government agency for paranormal defense is plausible, Ricker 176 00:11:35,481 --> 00:11:38,684 takes it one step further, suggesting a rogue 177 00:11:38,696 --> 00:11:41,840 faction of the bureau that most call absurd. 178 00:11:41,841 --> 00:11:49,720 You said your grandfather, General Norton Ricker worked for the BPRD. What did he do? 179 00:11:49,721 --> 00:11:51,556 My understanding is the time that he was 180 00:11:51,568 --> 00:11:56,920 there, what he told me. He was looking after this, um, hellboy. 181 00:11:56,921 --> 00:11:59,994 There's a lot of people who believe that the 182 00:12:00,006 --> 00:12:02,880 BPRD existed, but, um, it's just the real 183 00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:07,600 fringe theorists who believe in hellboy. I think it's the ones that are out there. 184 00:12:07,601 --> 00:12:12,000 It just like there are people who think that Area 51, well, that may exist. 185 00:12:12,001 --> 00:12:14,432 The people who believe that the U.S. government is actually 186 00:12:14,444 --> 00:12:16,480 reverse engineering UFOs there to figure 187 00:12:16,481 --> 00:12:20,040 out how they work. That's, you know, that's going that far. 188 00:12:20,041 --> 00:12:24,400 Do you worry that by coming forward, people will just think you're a nut? Yeah. 189 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:30,680 I don't people think I'm a nut. I've lost a lot of clients at my practice. 190 00:12:30,681 --> 00:12:38,300 How about your family? They tolerate it. 191 00:12:38,301 --> 00:12:45,360 Why do you think your grandfather wanted you to pursue this story? I wish you'd told 192 00:12:46,210 --> 00:12:51,760 me why, but I know him, and I know if he told me he wanted me to, it was important. 193 00:12:51,761 --> 00:12:53,720 So I will. 194 00:12:53,721 --> 00:12:58,360 Coming up next, a historical perspective on the U.S. government and the paranormal. 195 00:12:58,361 --> 00:13:13,680 Stay tuned for more of investigative journal, the BPRD declassified. 196 00:13:13,681 --> 00:13:16,553 Welcome back to investigative journal. 197 00:13:16,565 --> 00:13:19,320 Is the BPRD even a real organization? Declassified 198 00:13:19,321 --> 00:13:22,182 document show a mention of its formation in 1943. 199 00:13:22,194 --> 00:13:27,520 If critics are correct, this government agency is not what is widely believed to be 200 00:13:27,532 --> 00:13:30,080 the Bureau for Paranormal Research and Defense, 201 00:13:30,081 --> 00:13:32,376 rather it is some other entity created by the U. 202 00:13:32,388 --> 00:13:34,920 S. government and presumably dismantled in 1974. 203 00:13:34,921 --> 00:13:40,140 But before we can believe that the government could fight enemies from a paranormal 204 00:13:40,141 --> 00:13:43,303 realm, we first need to know there is a plausible 205 00:13:43,315 --> 00:13:46,360 argument for the existence of the supernatural. 206 00:13:46,410 --> 00:13:48,824 Deb Cronroy's is a research fellow at the 207 00:13:48,836 --> 00:13:51,440 Pinecliff University Parapsychology Program. 208 00:13:51,441 --> 00:13:53,783 When we talk about the paranormal, about 209 00:13:53,795 --> 00:13:56,560 things happening which we can't seem to explain 210 00:13:56,561 --> 00:14:00,680 with science, how do you respond to people who say this is real? 211 00:14:00,681 --> 00:14:04,258 Well, it is real in the sense that it's happening 212 00:14:04,270 --> 00:14:07,200 to them, so it's an event that occurred. 213 00:14:07,201 --> 00:14:10,120 All of my studies are totally scientific. 214 00:14:10,121 --> 00:14:12,725 What have you seen with your own eyes that you 215 00:14:12,737 --> 00:14:15,240 would consider an example of the paranormal? 216 00:14:15,241 --> 00:14:20,000 Well, I've done hundreds of experiments over the 32 years, and I have seen evidence 217 00:14:20,001 --> 00:14:23,960 of telepathy, mind to mind communication, clear voice, 218 00:14:23,961 --> 00:14:27,440 pre-code mission, but we're talking minor evidence of this. 219 00:14:27,441 --> 00:14:30,421 Based on what you've seen in your experiments, 220 00:14:30,433 --> 00:14:33,360 have you ever witnessed anything in the realm 221 00:14:33,361 --> 00:14:39,560 of the paranormal that you could harness either as a weapon or used defensively? 222 00:14:39,561 --> 00:14:41,920 No, absolutely not. 223 00:14:41,921 --> 00:14:43,818 Psychokinesis, which is what you're talking 224 00:14:43,830 --> 00:14:45,960 about, psychokinetic power, which is the ability 225 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,021 to have mind over matter, to move something, 226 00:14:49,033 --> 00:14:51,840 to change the way something, the appearance 227 00:14:51,841 --> 00:14:54,960 of something, the way something looks, to blow something up. 228 00:14:54,961 --> 00:14:57,800 Any kind of extreme power is absolutely impossible. 229 00:14:57,801 --> 00:14:59,960 But Conway Ricker believes differently. 230 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,112 Yeah, it's well-documented known that controlled 231 00:15:02,124 --> 00:15:06,991 and wrote viewing is taking place where they took people that were supposedly had no 232 00:15:07,003 --> 00:15:10,360 psychic abilities whatsoever, and they placed 233 00:15:10,361 --> 00:15:14,739 in a room, and they had them visualize where 234 00:15:14,751 --> 00:15:19,240 they imagined a target to be, and the results were amazing. 235 00:15:19,241 --> 00:15:22,200 They were 75% accurate. 236 00:15:22,300 --> 00:15:27,560 You've got a nice life in Ohio, you've got kids, you've got a wife, you're a lawyer. 237 00:15:27,561 --> 00:15:29,920 Why would you risk everything? 238 00:15:30,170 --> 00:15:34,520 Just to prove the existence of Hellboy and the BPRD? 239 00:15:34,521 --> 00:15:37,969 Hopefully, they'll come forth and say, "Yes, 240 00:15:37,981 --> 00:15:42,520 this is something that we did, we're involved in." 241 00:15:42,521 --> 00:15:46,058 We created, I don't know, they created them 242 00:15:46,070 --> 00:15:53,880 stolen, whatever, somehow we got Hellboy, and we've used him in military action. 243 00:15:54,330 --> 00:15:58,080 Is there any doubt in your mind that Hellboy is real? 244 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:04,340 Now, Hellboy is real. 245 00:16:04,341 --> 00:16:05,421 Read the book of Ephesians. 246 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,412 You know, it talks about spiritual warfare, 247 00:16:08,424 --> 00:16:11,140 demons and angels, battling, supernatural battles taking place. 248 00:16:11,340 --> 00:16:17,560 What kind of proof do you have that there is, in fact, a Hellboy? 249 00:16:17,561 --> 00:16:27,120 Well, I have actual physical proof, which is, 250 00:16:27,121 --> 00:16:28,120 I have a horn that I believe is from Hellboy. 251 00:16:28,121 --> 00:16:29,120 Hellboy. 252 00:16:29,121 --> 00:16:32,186 Ricker would not allow us to examine the alleged 253 00:16:32,198 --> 00:16:35,340 horn, but he did furnish us with this photograph. 254 00:16:35,341 --> 00:16:39,241 There was an explosion at a state in Scotland, 255 00:16:39,253 --> 00:16:43,080 and in the rubble of the explosion, this horn was found. 256 00:16:43,081 --> 00:16:47,033 The man that owned this was well known and 257 00:16:47,045 --> 00:16:50,220 well documented to be involved in the occult. 258 00:16:50,221 --> 00:16:52,779 But is there anything to prove the existence 259 00:16:52,791 --> 00:16:55,360 of this so-called Hellboy without hard proof 260 00:16:55,410 --> 00:17:00,880 like Conway Ricker's alleged horn, it's easy to say there is no proof. 261 00:17:01,505 --> 00:17:07,160 What other proof, if any, do you have that suggests the existence of Hellboy? 262 00:17:07,210 --> 00:17:09,720 Well, there's a photo. 263 00:17:09,721 --> 00:17:12,600 A photo that I believe is Hellboy. 264 00:17:12,601 --> 00:17:19,840 It's a group of soldiers, a German World War II, and it's blurry, but you can make 265 00:17:19,841 --> 00:17:27,320 out a figure that's obviously not human, it looks like some type of creature. 266 00:17:27,321 --> 00:17:29,462 I'm joined in studio with Nate Hyannis, a retired 267 00:17:29,474 --> 00:17:33,700 official with the United States Department of Defense, who claims that all of the 268 00:17:33,712 --> 00:17:36,480 stories about the BPRD are pure fantasy, and 269 00:17:36,481 --> 00:17:41,040 by satellite with Michael, who has chosen to have his real 270 00:17:41,090 --> 00:17:43,320 identity and face obscured for personal security reasons. 271 00:17:43,321 --> 00:17:45,400 Michael claims to be a former agent for the 272 00:17:45,412 --> 00:17:49,920 BPRD, though he wants to be clear he does not fear reprisals from the Bureau. 273 00:17:49,921 --> 00:17:54,040 He is concerned that if people knew who he was, they would be able to track back to 274 00:17:54,041 --> 00:17:57,360 the Bureau itself and then cause harm to his friends still there. 275 00:17:57,361 --> 00:17:58,360 Is that right, Michael? 276 00:17:58,361 --> 00:17:59,360 That's true, Jim. 277 00:17:59,361 --> 00:18:00,360 Thank you. 278 00:18:00,361 --> 00:18:01,360 Welcome to both of you. 279 00:18:01,361 --> 00:18:03,833 First to Nate, if the BPRD is not the Bureau 280 00:18:03,845 --> 00:18:07,160 for Paranormal Research and Defense, what is it? 281 00:18:07,161 --> 00:18:09,787 Well, Jim, basically the BPRD was a mechanism 282 00:18:09,799 --> 00:18:12,320 of the United States Department of Defense. 283 00:18:12,321 --> 00:18:16,520 There was a mission was highly classified, so it's not much to go into there, but one 284 00:18:16,521 --> 00:18:20,920 thing I can tell you is that the BPRD did not stand for paranormal. 285 00:18:20,921 --> 00:18:23,360 Michael, we hear no paranormal, not active. 286 00:18:23,361 --> 00:18:24,360 What do you say? 287 00:18:24,361 --> 00:18:25,360 Both are incorrect there, Jim. 288 00:18:25,361 --> 00:18:27,160 So what is the BPRD? 289 00:18:27,161 --> 00:18:30,236 The Bureau for Paranormal Research and Defense 290 00:18:30,248 --> 00:18:33,000 is very active and very much alive today, 291 00:18:33,001 --> 00:18:35,922 basically what the BPRD does is it investigates 292 00:18:35,934 --> 00:18:39,960 paranormal phenomena that can't be explained with conventional science. 293 00:18:40,260 --> 00:18:41,996 Well, Nate, we know that the United States 294 00:18:42,008 --> 00:18:45,280 government has dabbled into the realm of the paranormal in the past. 295 00:18:45,281 --> 00:18:46,280 Why would you dispute that? 296 00:18:46,281 --> 00:18:48,040 Well, first of all, I don't dispute that. 297 00:18:48,041 --> 00:18:49,040 Excuse me. 298 00:18:49,041 --> 00:18:51,920 The government used many voodoo type of... 299 00:18:52,345 --> 00:18:55,280 Well, I'm glad it isn't disputed, but I wouldn't call it voodoo. 300 00:18:55,281 --> 00:18:58,320 In fact, I'll go and remind everybody, let me rephrase that, okay? 301 00:18:58,321 --> 00:19:00,585 The government did use certain hokey type 302 00:19:00,597 --> 00:19:04,480 of methods to gather information, especially back in World War II. 303 00:19:04,481 --> 00:19:06,205 However, back 50 years ago, they realized 304 00:19:06,217 --> 00:19:08,080 that it was a waste of time, they're wasting 305 00:19:08,081 --> 00:19:11,320 valuable resources, money on paranormal research. 306 00:19:11,321 --> 00:19:15,560 Well, actually, that's incorrect, because remote 307 00:19:15,561 --> 00:19:16,560 viewing has been used and still used today. 308 00:19:16,561 --> 00:19:17,560 In fact, there's a very high accuracy rate. 309 00:19:17,561 --> 00:19:19,131 Michael, you're hiding behind the screen and 310 00:19:19,143 --> 00:19:21,760 you're claiming to be part of a long position and it doesn't exist. 311 00:19:21,761 --> 00:19:22,760 We have to talk one at a time. 312 00:19:22,761 --> 00:19:24,560 Michael, respond to that if you could. 313 00:19:24,561 --> 00:19:25,560 Not a problem. 314 00:19:25,561 --> 00:19:28,240 A lot of agencies exist that our government supports that. 315 00:19:28,241 --> 00:19:29,240 That's true, and I don't know. 316 00:19:29,241 --> 00:19:30,240 That's not public knowledge. 317 00:19:30,241 --> 00:19:32,400 That's a clear answer on all levels from the Department of Defense. 318 00:19:32,401 --> 00:19:37,320 Not that high, I've read your file, but for you to sit back and say that our government 319 00:19:37,321 --> 00:19:40,045 doesn't support certain departments, what would 320 00:19:40,057 --> 00:19:42,560 really call into question your credibility. 321 00:19:42,561 --> 00:19:46,560 For example, the Delta Force, some of those, in question what's your inability. 322 00:19:46,561 --> 00:19:48,576 I mean, there are some who are talking about 323 00:19:48,588 --> 00:19:51,800 the government for a long time or the government which is 12 years. 324 00:19:51,801 --> 00:19:54,848 Gentlemen, hold on both of the official line from the U. 325 00:19:54,860 --> 00:20:00,287 S. government is that funding for the BPRD ceased in the mid '70s, Michael, 326 00:20:00,299 --> 00:20:02,720 you claim that it's a secret organization in effect. 327 00:20:02,721 --> 00:20:03,720 Very secret. 328 00:20:03,721 --> 00:20:05,720 Not over in secret, yes. 329 00:20:05,721 --> 00:20:06,720 Nate, what do you say? 330 00:20:06,721 --> 00:20:10,280 I would say that, first of all, Michael, don't question my patriotism. 331 00:20:10,281 --> 00:20:11,280 Don't question your patriotism. 332 00:20:11,281 --> 00:20:13,520 Don't answer your question. 333 00:20:13,521 --> 00:20:15,676 The government doesn't spend money on 334 00:20:15,688 --> 00:20:18,440 boogeymen, on little green men from Mars or the tooth fur. 335 00:20:18,441 --> 00:20:22,380 We don't defend our country with big fight, Michael. 336 00:20:22,381 --> 00:20:24,446 What our government doesn't spend money last 337 00:20:24,458 --> 00:20:26,440 before we're running out of time, Michael? 338 00:20:26,441 --> 00:20:28,666 Unfortunately, we have a need for a BPRD, I 339 00:20:28,678 --> 00:20:31,020 wish we didn't, but we do, and our government 340 00:20:31,021 --> 00:20:33,400 spends money on that to defend our country. 341 00:20:33,401 --> 00:20:35,395 And that is unfortunately the final word, 342 00:20:35,407 --> 00:20:37,560 clearly, this is a controversy, we'll not be settled here. 343 00:20:37,561 --> 00:20:38,560 Thank you both. 344 00:20:38,561 --> 00:20:40,240 Thanks for having us. 345 00:20:40,241 --> 00:20:41,240 Thank you. 346 00:20:41,241 --> 00:20:42,240 This is welcome. 347 00:20:42,241 --> 00:20:47,240 Thank you. 348 00:20:48,940 --> 00:20:57,000 So, are we to believe there is actually an agency of the federal government whose main 349 00:20:57,001 --> 00:20:59,645 task is to rid us of threats from the paranormal 350 00:20:59,657 --> 00:21:04,501 realm, or are we to believe that there are people like Conway Ricker, a tax lawyer 351 00:21:04,513 --> 00:21:07,520 who have left reality and their own credibility 352 00:21:07,521 --> 00:21:11,120 to search for creatures such as the elusive Hellboy? 353 00:21:11,220 --> 00:21:17,080 I can already see in some circles I'm a laughing stock. 354 00:21:18,830 --> 00:21:21,862 But it's important enough for me to suffer 355 00:21:21,874 --> 00:21:25,280 that, to be that laughing stock, to help reveal 356 00:21:25,281 --> 00:21:28,080 what I believe is the truth, what I know is the truth. 357 00:21:28,081 --> 00:21:30,899 And one of the personal lives that are touched, 358 00:21:30,911 --> 00:21:33,440 18 years later, will Dorothy Hutchins ever 359 00:21:33,441 --> 00:21:36,480 know what happened to her best childhood friend? 360 00:21:36,481 --> 00:21:42,560 I've no reason to believe that she's not with us. 361 00:21:42,561 --> 00:21:50,760 I'm confused, but I hope that one day I'll see her again. 362 00:21:50,761 --> 00:21:53,061 Regardless of the lies that have been spread 363 00:21:53,073 --> 00:21:55,280 to either prop up or deny the existence of 364 00:21:55,380 --> 00:22:00,160 the BPRD, at its heart lies a palpable mystery. 365 00:22:00,161 --> 00:22:02,857 The efforts of hardworking people using the 366 00:22:02,869 --> 00:22:05,640 freedom of information act as a rallying cry 367 00:22:05,690 --> 00:22:10,560 have not yet uncovered what might be the first real mystery of the new millennium. 368 00:22:10,561 --> 00:22:12,960 I'm Jim More, thank you for watching. 33627

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