All language subtitles for Ted.Bundy.Dialogue.with.the.Devil.S01E06.HULU.WEB.h264-GRACE.en[cc]

[♪ dark music playing]

[♪ eerie music playing]

[Dr. Mary Ellen O'Toole]
As a profiler and as an investigator,

when talking with Gary Ridgway,
I certainly identify with the difficulty

of Keppel trying
to get specifics out of Ted.

Which is better for you?

Which is more arousing to you,
more stimulating, more exciting?

[Gary Ridgway] I couldn't--
I couldn't, uh...

[victim screaming]

...l-look at her face or
anything like that.

-When--
-Why?

-When I was killing her, I just--
-Why?

[♪ dark music playing]

I didn't wanna know who I was killing.

And... I never wanted
to see what they looked like.

[clicking]

[♪ tense music playing]

We have almost two dozen young women dead,
the victims of the Green River Killer.

[William Birnes] The whole premise
was using one killer

to catch another killer.

It had never been done before.

And that became
The Silence of the Lambs.

[♪ tense music playing]

[♪ tense music continues]

Less than six hours from now,

accused mass murderer Ted Bundy
is scheduled to be executed

in a Florida prison.

[♪ intense music playing]

[♪ dark music playing]

[♪ tense music playing]

[reporter]
Time is running out for Ted Bundy.

He is scheduled to die
in Florida's electric chair.

And now, he must hope
for a last-minute reprieve.

[Bob Keppel] I had seen
Ted Bundy manipulate his way

out of the electric chair for 10 years,

but now his fate seemed sealed.

Only Florida's governor
could save Ted's life,

and that didn't seem likely.

We are moving with anticipation
of what might occur.

[clock ticking]

[Bob Dekle]
I was exhilarated that day.

Ted Bundy needed killing.

[reporter] Ted Bundy, suspected in
at least 36 murders

and mutilations of young women,

may finally be executed.

Just about everybody who was a witness
to the execution

was somebody who worked on the case.

[Bill Hagmaier] It was a full house.

And outside, there were maybe
a thousand people out there

screaming and yelling.

[crowd yelling indistinctly]

It-- It's crazy.

And you see Old Sparky sitting there
in the middle of the room.

Off to the right,
is a phone hanging on the wall.

And the door opens and in comes Bundy,

and he is just white as a sheet.

[♪ tense music playing]

And they sit him down,
and they strap him in the chair.

[ticking]

There's a guy standing over here,
and he's on the phone with the governor.

[♪ tense music continues]

Our goal is to carry out
the warrant as signed.

It's still set for seven o'clock.

[Bob Keppel] Florida's governor fulfilled
Ted Bundy's greatest fear:

that he would die in prison.

[♪ tense, ominous music playing]

[Dekle] They dropped the hood.

Now Bundy, he had a, uh,
habit of making fists like this

with his thumb between his fingers,

and a thought ran through my head
at that point,

"I wonder how many necks
those hands have tightened around?"

[♪ tense, ominous music continues]

The superintendent gives a high sign
to the executioner,

and they, uh, throw the switch.

[electricity buzzing]

You could see the body tense.

You could see the hand tightening,

tighter and tighter.

[reporter] Two thousand volts
of electricity raced through his body.

The power surge caused

lights outside the execution chamber
to flicker.

It was the sign to the outside world
that Bundy was dead.

[crowd cheering]

Yahoo!

About damn time!

[cheering continues]

I got the phone call, and said
it was over, he was dead.

And I started to cry.

And I cried. And I wailed.

And all my husband could do was hold me.

[♪ somber music playing]

I wasn't crying for me.

[camera clicks]

I was crying for Margaret, and for Lisa...

[camera clicks]

...and all his victims,

and all their families,

and all the things that they wanted to do.

[camera clicks]

[Eleanor Rose] I waited for that day
a long time,

and it came.

And then, the way I feel
is today is today...

and I still don't have Denise.

[♪ somber music continues]

[camera clicks]

[Vivian Winters] We were so upset.

You know, it was very emotional for us.

One of the magazines rang our doorbell

and my husband went to answer.

And flash bulbs are flashing.

And he said,
"How do you feel about the execution?"

Dale just slammed the door on him.

Let's not make a circus
out of this, people's tragedies.

[Karen Sparks Epley]
I don't believe in executions.

But in that case, I was happy that he...

was, um, executed,

because he was just a total monster.

I was bawling my eyes out.

Although, I knew that, you know,
this person needed to go.

I wasn't just crying
for my brother or for myself.

It was because of the situation.

You know, "Thanks a lot.
You know, you ruined so many lives.

"And you're making me upset right now

and 'cause there's nothing
I can do about it."

[crowd cheering]

[Roger Dunn] I've had mixed emotions
about the death penalty.

For Bundy, I'm glad they executed him.

-[camera clicks]
-Now, with his death,

and his confession on Bob's tapes,

I think the victims' families
have some solace at this point.

[Bob Keppel] The last words
I had said to Bundy were,

"You've just killed yourself."

I thought of those words
as I flew home to Seattle.

[♪ dark music playing]

[Dave Keppel]
It was the morning.

I was surprised to see dad already home.

I said, "Did you stay for execution?"

And he said, "No."

But then he kind of smiled
and looked down,

and he was frying bacon.

[laughing]

In the kitchen.

[bacon sizzling]

So, we had a good laugh.

I had thought
that he had wanted to see the execution,

but he said he didn't want to.

He was done with Bundy at that point.

[Bob Keppel]
Bundy was dead.

The Green River Killer wasn't.

[reporter] Today,
police identified the skeletal remains

found in a ravine
over the weekend

as those of Cindy Anne Smith.

Today's announcement brings the number
of known victims to 37.

[Bob Keppel] By now, it was the longest
unsolved serial murder case

in American history.

Bundy had put himself
into the Riverman's mind.

Could he still help us
from beyond the grave?

[camera clicks]

[Bob Keppel] Bundy was brought down
by a witness in Utah.

Could a witness also bring
the Green River Killer to justice?

[detective] Is that the man
that assaulted you in 1982?

[Rebecca Garde] That is the man.

[detective] There's no doubt
in your mind about that?

[Garde] No doubt.

He was right in my face
when he was attacking me.

There is no way
I would not be able to remember that.

[♪ intense music playing]

[♪ dark music playing]

[Bob Keppel] Bundy had told me

that the Green River Killer
was likely questioned by the police.

Maybe even arrested.

[Bob Keppel] Back in 1984,

the task force had been
sifting through 77,000 suspects,

and that's when investigators
heard an alarming story.

The police had questioned a man
about an attack on Rebecca Garde.

[Garde]
They actually showed me a bunch of photos,

and I... had picked out his photo.

[Bob Keppel] During the interview,
the suspect admitted choking Garde

because, he claimed, she'd bit him.

[Katie Larson]
He admitted to it.

He said, "Oh, yeah, I strangled her,

or tried to because she bit me
and assaulted me."

And was very forthcoming
and candid about it,

which, I think, you would naturally assume
that would not be the case

if he was trying to hide something.

[Bob Keppel]
Investigators track the man to his home.

His name? Gary Ridgway.

[camera clicks]

[♪ dark, ominous music playing]

Detectives took a hard look at Ridgway,

and they realized

that the Green River Task Force
had already investigated him.

Gary Ridgway first came
to the attention of the task force

when Marie Malvar disappeared
on April 30, 1983.

Marie Malvar disappeared off the strip.

She had a pimp, a boyfriend,
who saw her get into a truck.

[♪ tense music playing]

[Richard Kraske]
When she didn't return home,

they went out looking for the truck
in the neighborhood.

They found it in Ridgway's driveway.

So they called the police.

[Patty Eakes] The police went out
to Ridgway's house.

You know, he admitted that
he had sex with her,

but then said that he had dropped her off.

And again,
she was just another missing person,

so there was not a whole lot
they could do about it.

[Bob Keppel] On May 7, 1984,
Ridgway took a polygraph,

administered
by the King County Sheriff's Office,

and passed.

My client has passed
a polygraph examination

regarding whether or not
he is the Green River Killer.

He passed it, that means he was telling
the truth when he said he was not.

[Dekle] The polygraph operator
that passed Ridgway--

even if this person
is the best expert in the world,

always get a second opinion.

Because, later on,
it's gonna come back to bite you.

[Bob Keppel]
Ridgway was cleared at the time,

but then, another tip came in.

The boyfriend of one of the prostitutes
who was abducted,

that boyfriend gave them a description
of the person driving the pickup truck

who was driving the victim away.

[Bob Keppel] Police showed
Kimi-Kai Pitsor's boyfriend

a six-person photo lineup,

and he made a tentative identification.

[Birnes]
They identified Gary Ridgway, again.

King County investigator just released
a list of reasons

for last week's probe
at a King County home.

[Dave Reichert] We searched his house.
We searched his vehicles.

There was nothing there
during the 1987 search

that would cause us to make an arrest.

[Bob Keppel] When the task force
questioned Ridgway in 1987,

they also took a saliva sample from him.

[Larson] We asked him
to chew on a piece of gauze.

That was for blood typing.

Little did we know that
that specific piece of gauze

would be the key to this case
20 years later.

[♪ dark music playing]

[film strip whirring]

[birds chirping]

[Bob Keppel] The Green River case
spanned decades,

remaining constant
even as the players in it moved on.

[camera clicks]

Dave Reichert rose through the ranks

and won election as King County Sheriff
in 1997.

I began teaching the next generation
of investigators

at the University of Washington.

When asked, I still gave advice
to my former colleagues,

especially about
serial murder investigations.

[Reichert] When I became sheriff,

we focused on any evidence
that could have any DNA possibilities.

We had bodily fluids that we had taken
from victims who were, uh, intact.

[Eakes] So, one of the unique things
that the Green River Killer did

is that he placed rocks inside the vaginas
of some of his early victims.

The fact that he had put a rock
inside one of the victims

actually ended up
being kind of his undoing,

because that rock had prevented
his sperm from being washed away.

And that's how they were able
to get a DNA hit.

[♪ dark music playing]

[reporter] Police arrested Ridgway
this afternoon

and say DNA evidence links him to four
of the 49 murders of the Green River case.

[Bob Keppel] Technology had finally
caught up with Gary Ridgway.

Using advances in DNA typing,

investigators matched
the DNA left in victims

to Ridgway's DNA

taken in 1987.

I couldn't resist.
I went out to the, uh, holding room,

and as Ridgway came out,
I looked at him and I said,

"Gotcha."

[♪ dramatic music playing]

[Bob Keppel] Gary Ridgway
was a Navy veteran

who worked as a truck painter
at Kenworth Trucking.

The paint he used would tie him
to the other victims.

[Eakes] We managed to identify
three additional victims

from the paint spheres

that we were able to locate
on several items of evidence.

[♪ dramatic music continues]

We've got seven cases.

We could clearly convict him
of these seven charges,

and we could seek
the death penalty on him.

If Gary Ridgway doesn't deserve death
then who does?

[Bob Keppel] But that wasn't enough.

What about the 41 other victims
we didn't have evidence for

and didn't know where their remains were?

We would agree to trade the death penalty

in return
for getting information from him,

and to try to find
some of the women who were still missing.

[Bob Keppel] After five years
of interviews,

Bundy finally confessed
to the eight Washington State murders.

Would the Green River Task Force be able
to get confessions from Ridgway?

[♪ sinister music plays]

[♪ dark music playing]

[indistinct chatter]

[Norm Maleng] Today,
I'm announcing the filing

of four counts of aggravated
first-degree murder charges

against Gary Ridgway.

[reporter]
Ridgway, a 54-year-old truck painter

and seemingly ordinary family man,

is the notorious Green River Killer,

responsible for a string of murders
which terrorized Seattle in the 1980s.

[neighbor 1] Well, a next-door neighbor.
He lives right behind me.

The whole thing is just a shock to me.
I-- I never expected it.

He don't deserve to live at all.

[crying]

Killing my niece!

I'm pleased that they got him.

It's a little spooky that he's living
right here in my neighborhood, though.

[♪ dark music playing]

[reporter] Ridgway was arrested in 2001.

Two years later,

he is expected to avoid the death penalty
as part of a plea agreement.

Ridgway has been cooperating,

but is he telling them everything
or just enough to make a deal?

[Bob Keppel] Now that Ridgway
was behind bars,

investigators could focus
on his confessions.

[investigator] We're, uh,
back on tape again,

and the time now is 11:30 in the morning.

[Bob Keppel] But as I learned from my year
sitting across a table from Bundy,

prying confessions out
of a pathological liar and killer

isn't easy.

[Bob Keppel] Ridgway started confessing
when he was caught

not after a death sentence.

He played the card that
Bundy should've played from the beginning.

It is only because of that death penalty

being in place at the time

that Ridgway had any incentive at all
to cooperate with the police.

We're gonna move on to number seven.

We spent about six months
interviewing him,

essentially seven days a week,

videotaping the interviews,

and bringing in a number
of different people

to try to solve those cases.

-[Dr. O'Toole] Good morning.
-Hi.

I worked in the FBI's
Behavioral Analysis Unit.

I worked primarily
serial sexual murder cases.

How have you been?

-Good.
-Good.

I got a call from the prosecutor.

He felt I could be helpful
if I would come in,

and I would talk to Gary
about his early developmental years.

And I said, "Yes, of course, I will.

The opportunity
to talk to Gary Ridgway? Yes."

Let me ask you this, um...

[Birnes] After those reports
of Bundy helping Keppel,

those reports went to the FBI, of course,
the Behavioral Science Unit.

Bob Keppel began the process

of teaching other police agencies

and the FBI about serial killers.

[Dr. O'Toole] In the '70s,
people didn't share information.

If the serial killer were
to hit in one town,

and then the adjacent town,

there was no guarantee that
those agencies would talk to one another.

Keppel set us on the road
to developing ViCAP,

which is the Violent Crime
Apprehension Program that the FBI runs

to share information about cases,
both solved and unsolved,

so that agencies will talk to one another.

[♪ dark, ominous music playing]

We know that there are answers
that you would have kept

because of the secret side of you
that you had to protect for many years.

It would be very difficult
to be able to share what you did.

As a profiler and as an investigator,

I studied the interviews with Ted Bundy
about the Green River Killer.

There was some accuracy about Gary
in those interviews.

[Bob Keppel] Bundy believed
the Riverman had a stable job

with a regular, normal work schedule.

And he was right.

[Martha Sidock] I worked
in the paint department along with him.

He took his job very seriously.

He was a good employee.

[camera clicks]

He's married. He's got kids.

You know, on the outside, it looks normal.

[Dr. O'Toole]
If he walked in here right now,

there's nothing about him
that would make you think,

"This is one scary, dangerous-looking guy

that's capable
of doing these kinds of things."

[♪ ominous music playing]

[Bob Keppel] Bundy was right about
the Green River Killer's targets, too.

[Ted Bundy speaking]

Every day, his route to and from work
was up and down Pacific Highway South.

So, going to and from work,

he's always looking for prey.

The victims, according to him,
were almost ubiquitous.

He wasn't often able
to say what race they were,

how they were dressed,
where he picked 'em up.

But what he could remember
were these areas.

And they were like his special areas.

It's almost as if
Ridgway kept their bodies as trophies.

[Bob Keppel] Bundy was right
about the Riverman's dedication

to his dump sites.

And worse, he was right about why
Ridgway returned to them again and again.

They were my-- my possessions.

[detective]
And they're still your possessions

-aren't they?
-Yes.

[♪ sinister music plays]

[♪ dark music playing]

[Bob Keppel] Bundy imagined
the killer returning to his dump sites

for private moments with his victims.

And he was right.

Ridgway admitted to his depravity.

Walk me through
the post-defense behavior with a victim

that generates so much anger
or strong feelings in you.

Um... sure.

This, uh-- One of the first ones...
[sniffles]

...I had control over her, so I...

had, uh, had sex with her afterwards.

Okay.

My style is to use the one trait

that I think is probably
the most important trait for a profiler,

and that is to listen.

Okay.

I sat very close to him.

I wanted to make sure
that he knew that I was there,

and that I was watching him.

So, you'd wanna continue to have
sex with them after they were dead,

because you worked so hard
at getting them dead?

-Mm-hmm.
-Does that make sense to you?

-This one, yeah.
-Okay.

[♪ sinister music playing]

[Eakes] His posing was about
getting them into a position

where he could more easily have sex
with their dead bodies,

'cause you can imagine the difficulty
once somebody has died

and rigor mortis sets in.

[Dr. O'Toole] Do you remember
ever coming back?

Would you have uncovered her,
you know, the brush and stuff off of her,

and try to have sex with her again?

[Ridgway] I might've come back.

I might screw 'em for two, three days.

[♪ sinister music continues]

[Bob Keppel] For a serial killer,

his dump sites are living places
that occupy his memory.

This is where his possessions are.

He owns these locations

just as he owns the victims.

Ridgway made this very clear
to his interviewers,

just as Bundy made it very clear to me.

He told us about one particular instance
where he had killed one of his victims,

but he didn't wanna be late to work,

so he just had her
in the back of the pickup truck

and drove to work.

[Sidock] Going to and from work,
I walked by that truck,

and to know that

there, more than likely,
was somebody's daughter or mother

laying in the back...

It's unimaginable
to think of murdering somebody

let alone... repeatedly having sex
with the dead bodies.

Ted Bundy was more accurate
in profiling the serial killer

than the police were.

He was right all along the line.

[Bob Keppel] One thing Bundy didn't know
was where Ridgway's bodies were buried.

King County needed Ridgway
to confess to 48 murders

and to tell them
where he'd buried his victims.

As Bundy told me back in '88,

to get a killer to talk,
the investigator needs two things:

time... [chuckles]

...and patience.

[detective 1] Ted Bundy could
recite for you everything that he did.

-[detective 2] Down to the last detail.
-Mm-hmm. That's--

[detective 1]
And it bothers me that you can't.

It's because I've been covering up

and covering-- covering up
for so-- so long and...

[detective 1] You think Ted Bundy
didn't cover things up for a long time?

I don't even try to think about it.
I just-- Mm-- just...

[detective 2] You gotta think about it.
You had 20 years to think about it.

Mm-hmm. I had 20 years
to forget about it, too.

Every day was certainly not successful.

It was very, very frustrating
to have ongoing conversation.

It wasn't like
once you opened him up, floodgates.

It wasn't that at all.

Every day with Gary was a challenge.

Mr. Ridgway,
still trying to get a sense from you

of just how effective

-a serial killer that you were...
-Mm-hmm.

...and how much insight
that you have into your behavior.

When you're talking to these people,

you will never break down
their psychopathy.

That will never happen.

You will never break it down.
You will never make it go away.

And some of them
want to take this to their grave.

[detective] We get paid to try to find out

-what the truth is.
-Mm-hmm.

[detective] And it has been
difficult here this week with you.

There have been times
when you have not been honest with us.

The last couple of days, I've been trying
to tell you everything I knew.

And you get frustrated and I get
frustrated fighting about what I did...

The investigative team
could not be satisfied

with just having Gary relay to them about,
"I killed this person and put her there.

I killed this person and put her there."

They had to verify
that what he was saying to them was true.

[Ridgway] I know where the women are.

I can, you know,
show you where they're at.

[detective] Where's the first location?

The first location is down that road
down there to the left

on the east side of those bushes.

[♪ ominous music playing]

[Bob Keppel] In Ridgway's twisted mind,
the dump sites were his private territory.

Would he spill his secrets

and lead investigators
to those long-buried bodies?

[♪ dark music playing]

[Bob Keppel] Gary Ridgway
and the prosecutors agreed

that in exchange for taking
the death penalty off the table,

Ridgway would tell
the truth about his crimes

and lead investigators
to his victims' remains.

He would also plead guilty
to aggravated murder in the first degree

for the 41 other murders.

Him agreeing to a plea deal,
personally, I don't agree with it.

He still holds the cards.

Because he could sit there
and tell these guys,

"Hey, I think I remember so and so now.
Let me take you over here."

[Eakes] We weren't gonna just take
his word for what he said happened.

We actually needed to find
some corroborating evidence

before we would charge him with a murder
or allow him to plead guilty to it.

[Larson] Show us where you killed her.

Based upon information
that he would give us,

we would set up a field trip.

We would leave in the hours of darkness,

so that nobody would see us
leaving the office,

put a baseball cap on him
and then go out.

[♪ suspenseful music playing]

So, did you drive up here?

I drove up here, yeah.

You put her right next to the road?

Right next-- on the road,
right underneath the garbage as a marker.

[Eakes] I don't think any of us
appreciated

just how difficult it would be
to find remains after 20 years.

And he was really difficult to talk to.

It was very frustrating.

[Ridgway] I just put her right in here.
There's something right there.

What is it? There-- There it is.
Isn't that a teeth?

-[detective] Uh-uh.
-Is that te-- Oh, I'm sorry.

It looked like teeth.

[Bob Keppel]
The plea agreement was going nowhere.

And it was frustrating
to see Ridgway enjoy his field trips

and relive his murders.

After months of feeling jerked around,

investigators reminded Ridgway
what was at stake.

If we discover evidence
linking you to a homicide...

that you've denied
or haven't mentioned to us,

there'll be big pressure on the prosecutor

to seek the death penalty...

-Yes.
-...for aggravated murder.

You understand that?

-[Ridgway] I know that.
-Okay.

I'm gonna try and give you
as much credibility as I can.

When you go out to that site,
you are gonna find a body.

[♪ dark music playing]

[reporter] Yesterday, detectives dug up
at least a dozen human bones.

First thing this morning,
they found some more remains.

[Larson] These bones are women.

Somebody's daughter.
They're somebody's sister.

And for us, our primary motivation

was to return them
to their families as we could.

[camera clicks]

[Velma Harris]
I hope he continues to cooperate,

and the other families can come
to closure with theirs.

I really do hope so.

[♪ dark music playing]

[distant sirens wailing]

[reporter] By the time Gary Ridgway
leaves court later this morning,

he's expected to plead guilty
to the murders of nearly 50 women.

[Eakes] He only pled to 48,

because those were the 48
we could tie him to.

[film strip whirring]

[Bob Keppel]
Ridgway was spared the death penalty,

and the community was spared
the anguish of a trial.

On the day of sentencing,

the victims' family members
were finally able to speak their minds.

We are here today for the sentencing
of Gary Leon Ridgway.

Representatives of the victim families
will address the court.

[Kathy Mills]
Gary Leon Ridgway, I forgive you.

You can't hold me anymore.

My life now is lived
to one day be with Little Opal,

because I have that hope
of seeing her again.

The victim families that wanted to speak

talked about their pain and their loss.

Debra Estes was my daughter.

She was just an immature teenager
trying to find her way in life

before it was snuffed out
by Gary Ridgway.

I won't ever forgive him for that.

He's gonna go to Hell,

and that's where he belongs.

May God have mercy on your pathetic soul

because the rest of us who know
the truth about you won't.

I was only five when my mother died.
I found out on Mother's Day.

[sniffling]

[breathing shakily]

There's nothing that anybody can say
or ever do for me

that will bring my mother back.

The one thing that I want you,
Gary Ridgway, to know,

I was that daughter at home...
[crying] waiting for my mom to come home.

I still get emotional
when I think about it.

[sniffles]

Hearing these people who felt like

their daughters had
not been acknowledged as people.

After today,
I will not give this parasite a thought.

To my fellow families, from here on,
we will embrace our daughters,

our sisters, our mothers,
our wives in our hearts,

where we will honor them by living.

[sighs] Well, I've been waiting
for this day to come, Gary Loser Ridgway.

You are a loser. You're a coward.

You are nobody. You're an animal!

If I have a chance right now
to do what I wanna do to you,

I want you to feel
what you did to these victims,

but I can't.

I hope you rot in Hell! Son of a [bleep].

-[people applauding]
-[Judge Richard A. Jones] Please--

Please refrain from applauding.

-It's inappropriate in a court proceeding.
-I'm sorry.

[Judge Jones] There's no reason
to apologize, sir.

[♪ solemn music playing]

[voice breaking] My sister Tammie
has been missed for 41 years,

and we've had to live with her loss.

I've had plenty of time to reflect

on my feelings towards Gary Ridgway
and what he did.

I have had to learn to forgive him,
but I will never forget.

Forgiveness doesn't set Gary free
of his wrongs,

but it sets me free from an
internal prison of hatred in my heart.

[voice breaking] I will always be grateful
to the King County Sheriff's Office

and, of course,
of other law enforcement agencies

who, over the years, helped to bring...

closure to so many families.

I ask you to remember those 48 young women

as people who had
unexplored dreams, hopes, aspirations,

and families that loved them deeply.

Please know
the women you killed were not throwaways

or pieces of candy
in a dish placed upon this planet

for the sole purpose
of satisfying your murderous desires.

[Bob Keppel] The women Ridgway
and Bundy murdered are not forgotten,

but they are gone now from this Earth.

Their families, friends,

and the investigators
who tracked them down are forever damaged

by these two unspeakable monsters.

People always tell me,
"Oh, he was so smart.

Ted was so smart and good looking."

No, he was stupid and ugly.

Because if you do stuff like that,

you are the ugliest piece of [bleep]
that anyone could ever have to look at.

[♪ dramatic music playing]

[Bob Keppel] Only an investigator
who has hunted for a serial killer

like Ted Bundy or Gary Ridgway knows

how a case consumes
their every waking moment

at the expense of their personal lives.

After I left
the Attorney General's Office,

I devoted my career
to helping investigators

keep these killers off the streets.

Ted Bundy helped me write the book
on interviewing serial killers.

He gave me a look
inside the mind of one.

[Bob Keppel]
The world made so much of Bundy,

but in the end, he was nothing.

There's really much less to him
than meets the eye,

but he's been elevated
to this genius status in the media.

He's been given
too much credit for too long.

And I think it would honor the victims
if he received a demotion in that regard.

[Dunn] What's gotten lost
is the side of the victims,

and the victims' families

'cause they're the ones that suffer.

[camera clicks]

[Winters] We talk about her all the time.

Granddaughters and great-granddaughters
carry her name.

She'll always be a member of our family.

It's a part of our history
that we can't deny,

and we don't want to.

[Jenny Graham]
This is something that is a life sentence.

It lives with you forever.

I hate, with a passion,
the word "closure."

Closure is for everybody else
that doesn't have nightmares,

depression, or anxiety,

or, you know, just the things
that crime victims often go through.

[camera clicks]

In the end, I am now forever with PTSD.

I have anxiety, panic attacks,

and I'm extremely afraid of the woods.

Things that were fun before
are not fun anymore.

[Bob Keppel] Even now, after all the time
that has passed since Bundy's execution,

I find myself struggling
as I think of the Bundy case,

and I feel, once more,
that grief and stress

that overwhelmed me
during this investigation.

[Dave Keppel]
It did take a little toll on him,

on his health, stress-wise.

He had a heart attack pretty young
and, uh, heart problems.

He eventually had a stroke.

[camera clicks]

[♪ solemn music playing]

[water lapping]

[camera clicks]

[Kathleen McChesney]
Bob was the kind of person

that if he was going to do something,

he was gonna do it
to the best of his ability.

And that's what he did for his whole life.

[Katherine Ramsland] I've often thought
Keppel has not gotten his due

in terms of the kind of work
he put into this case

and what he drew out of the Bundy case

to improve investigations
for future investigators.

"How can I help
law enforcement do better?"

That was his driving force.

[Dave Keppel] Dad's legacy
is that he really changed the way

that serial murderers are investigated.

[camera clicks]

I think he's definitely seen
as a hero in the field.

I've had a lot of people tell me that.

[camera clicks]

[♪ dramatic music playing]

[Birnes] The Keppel-Bundy conversations
were kind of like a chess match.

They both had their agendas.

And since Bundy was ultimately executed,
he lost.

But Keppel,
because he solved all these cases, won.

In the world of criminology,

the Ted Bundy case was the first,
most complete explanation

of how a serial killer evolves.

But not just that,

how to use police forces,
local, state, federal

to track down and catch a serial killer.

Bob Keppel invented the process,

and that is why the FBI now
knows how to catch a serial killer.

♪♪