All language subtitles for Beyond Vanilla (2001) Claes Lilja

I feel passionately that while we're
here in this life, we have to live life,

we have to explore it, we have to
venture into areas that may seem a

uncomfortable at first in order to
understand them.

And in the process of making this film,
I have in my personal life gone out and

explored things that I don't think I
would have done otherwise if I had not

exposed to them.

Although some of those things I wouldn't
necessarily rush out to do again,

having had the experience has made me a
more complete person.

In interviewing over 100 people, I feel
like I have made a lot of new friends,

and I discovered a lot of things that I
was completely unaware of beforehand.

People often talk about sex and violence
as if they're one and the same thing,

when in reality they are each other's
opposite.

Sex is always consensual, whereas
violence is when something is done to a

against their free will.

A lot of people don't seem to understand
this fundamental difference, and it is

frightening when that is the case among
politicians, lawmakers, religious

leaders, and others who are controlling
what we as adults can and cannot do.

This film will show some sex acts that
may seem questionable, or even

objectionable to some people.

It is, however, what these people choose
to do in the pursuit of their

happiness.

I like being tied up doing fantasy
stuff.

Breath control is one of my very
favorites. I think I always knew I was a

different sexually.

I like everything.

I like water sports. I like bondage,
electricity, everything.

But fisting is my favorite.

I like a good old -fashioned blowjob
against a fisting scene any day.

That's just a little old me, a little
vanilla me.

I've kind of gotten to foot worship a
little bit lately.

I have a lot of kinky things I like to
do in private that I don't get to do on

camera so much.

And my mission in life is to get
everyone to be as comfortable with their

sexuality as I am with mine.

All sounds go text when spoken about
without experience.

When we're small children, we speak
about...

Our parents having sex together, and
we're totally offended and grossed out.

But we get a little older, and we try
the things we discover, the beauty in

them. Well, all kinds of sexuality and
fetish have beauty and lovemaking

potential. If the bedrooms of the world
were opened up, we would see some very

bizarre and very kinky people.

Who are these people?

Typical person.

I just have to say a perm.

Mainly doctors, lawyers.

People in a corporate position.

I'm Dr. Alex Doris -Barrion. I am a
medical director of Terranova Medical

I'm Tony Mill.

I don't know exactly how to introduce
myself. Medical doctor, former

international Mr. Leather, 1998,

cult model.

I'm Dr. Carol Queen. I have a doctorate
in sexology, which is the scientific

study of sexuality and sex and culture.
I practice law in the city of Los

Angeles. My old friends call me Bulldog.

Hi, I'm Randy Rage. I do face films for
Bizarre Video. I'm Cole Tucker, and if

you don't know me, I have been very
fortunate and successful in the gay

video entertainment business.

If you haven't seen my work and you like
leather sex and man sex, check it out.

My name's Chloe.

I'm an adult. I'm Shishi LaRue, world
famous, though I've heard,

porn director and drag queen. My name is
Nina Hartley. I have been a sexual

entertainer since 1983 and have expanded
into writing, producing, directing,

lecturing about sexuality and
pornography and feminism.

I'm also a registered nurse.

I've always worked in restaurants.

I'm Richard Hunter, and I'm the owner of
Mr. F. Leather.

I own a leather store in San Francisco.

My name is Matias Wigner. I'm a writer
and an academic. I teach at CalArts. I'm

an escort.

I have sex for money.

I'm a proton. I do special effects for
movies.

I'm a whore. I'm a normal guy.

If there's any people that I've worked
with in the past that are watching this

movie, they're going to be shocked to
friggin' hell that...

I'm on camera saying that I'd like to
have a fist or two shoved up my ass.

I'd like to be fucked by a dog. And, you
know, I drink urine for fun.

What are your fantasies?

And what are your deep, dark, secret
fantasies?

I can't really talk about it. It's
illegal.

My wildest fantasy, I guess, would be to
do it in a taxi cab going down Sunset

on a Saturday night.

My kinkiest fantasy, I guess, would be
to, years ago, was to have a harem. I

to live out all of my sexual fantasies.
You should always try it twice because

you might have screwed up the first
time. Do you want to have sex?

I would do a gangbang with twins.

A set of twins.

A whole...

Bunch of sets of twins.

Now you want to hear a ting ting.

Sets of fucking twins, baby.

Bunches of them.

Bunches of them. Bunches.

Triplets.

Fucking triplets.

I like tough, sexy drag.

Do you want to have wild, extreme sex?

A little bit wild is nice, definitely.

I can enjoy a lot of things in my
fantasies that I'm sure I would never

reality. Abduction fantasies.

stealing someone away to play with them.

I'd love to have a movie, actually have
somebody making a movie about it where

they might set it up so they've told me
that this might happen and that kind of

thing, so I'm not totally shocked, but
have them come and get me from my house.

and abduct me and then take me into the
scene and then... That's a lot of thing,

kidnapping, you know, whatever.

I mean, we all played it. And kids, we
just played it different.

Yeah, I mean, it's fun. I mean, it's
exciting. Just make me do everything

you want me to.

I'd like to be gang raped.

Probably in a leather bar.

My ultimate fantasy, the darkest,
deepest one, is to be taken into a life

no return bondage.

We're kept shackled, collared,
everything locked on.

And as a ritual, like the first date, he
puts all the keys into a box of cement

and throws it down the river.

Being with Courtney Love would be my
biggest fantasy now.

My wildest fantasy is having a nice warm
bath with some candles with somebody I

love. Because I've done everything else.

I've lived every fantasy I've ever had.

Your biggest sexual organ is your brain,
so you have to stimulate that. You can

get physical stimulation and
gratification, but it's never as intense

when your mind is a part of it, playing
a part of it. Your fantasies, your

fears, your strength, they all come into
it, especially in this type of play,

which calls for a lot more elements of
your person.

Why would somebody want to get flogged
or get fisted?

We live in a world of very...

passive banal values. We watch life on
television go by.

Very few of us really experience the
zest, the enthusiasm.

Maybe people will go bungee jumping or
something, but for those who aren't out

for bungee jumping, feeling intensity is
so rare in our culture.

I don't like to climb mountains.

I don't jump out of airplanes, but I
think I'd like to try that.

And all these adrenaline rushes and ways
that, especially guys,

like to prove themselves to themselves.

This is a sexual way of doing that.

I think everybody has a wild side,
though. I mean, deep down inside, we're

an animal.

Some of the ones who don't dress up very
much, meaning that they're not wearing

a lot of fetish clothing, they're the
ones who are the most severe in the

bedroom. They're little demons in the
bedroom, but, you know, if you saw them

the street, you'd think they were just
mom and pop.

I don't know what kinky is, you know?

What is... kinky.

Smacking somebody's butt is kinky?

No, I've known people that have been
doing it for 30 years and I'm sure they

know people that have been doing it for
30 years before them.

And I know in Roman times people were
doing it too.

Kinky to me might be very normal to
other people or vice versa.

It is just what sex is for me.

So, I mean, there are certainly
highlights of of things that have been

wonderful, like exploring daddy -girl
play, which has really enhanced my life.

What for me makes kinky play fun is when
I allow myself to go into areas that

still give me that charge, the creeper
behind the breath bone. There's some

things that go beyond the conventional
or the ordinary, and yet we can find

emotional, spiritual, and physical
fulfillment in it. Action.

Beat the shit out of somebody while I'm
having sex.

And therefore, I don't have to go out
and pick a fight with somebody in a bar.

You know, I mean, I can take out my
aggression sexually and release that

and be a better person for it.

The kinkiest thing I've done is arrest a
woman, you know, arrest her, make her

get on the wall or whatever, pat her
down and, you know, handcuff her and go

from there. You know, leave her totally
parley.

I have sex with the pastor's son at her
church.

I glued a dildo on the washing machine
and then fucked it.

I've nearly died a few times having sex,
so I guess that would be sort of

extreme. I've been on a St. Andrew's
crop and flopped. It was really intense.

It was really cathartic. It sort of blew
off some steam.

I thanked someone in my pajamas for
free, of course, and poured candle wax

his testicles.

Which he didn't really like, but I liked
it.

I'm kind of trisexual. I'll try anything
with anybody.

I've been around the block a few times.
That's all I'm going to say. I have not

had sex with myself in 15 years, so I
don't know. And what happens out there

pretty much beyond me. Anything that's
not vanilla to the normal public. Just a

guy on top, girl, you know, two people,
making love, you know,

normal. Normal sex, I guess anything
outside of that might be considered

You know you've got extreme fetishes
when you see a sports character book go

and you literally get a heart on it. How
did you get started?

I was into kinky sex even before I
realized it was kinky.

Ever since I started being involved with
people sexually, I was being tied up,

thanked.

Strange implements being used on me. I
love the idea of initiating someone, you

know?

surprising someone. Someone who, you
know, essentially like corrupting

I was into rough sex from a very early
age and that just naturally progressed

into us. Long before I had any idea what
sex was, my fantasies were basically

being kidnapped by a bunch of bikers and
bound and gagged back on the floor and

them humiliating me.

thinking about SM all the time to the
point where I wasn't really in my body a

lot of the time. I was off in fantasy
land.

But I wasn't getting it that this was
turning me on and I wasn't getting it

this was something I could actually
enact.

At the time, you know, I was living a
relatively traditional lifestyle. I was

wife and mother and writing ad copy for
a living and living in a small

California city and I had no access to
the kinds of information that I would

have needed to tell me that This was not
really all that uncommon.

Many people fantasize briefly about
certain sexual activities, but because

they've never seen them enacted and
they've never talked to other people

them, it's not a major part of their
inner sexual fantasy life.

I think SM is increasing in popularity
among women to an unprecedented degree.

And I think what's driving this largely
is the Internet.

I mean, back in the pre -internet days,
to find information about S &M, you

basically had to go into an adult
bookstore or something similar, and most

just simply were never going to do that.
People who have deviant or unusual

sexual interests...

are getting on the Internet and they're
finding other like -minded people who

are doing the same thing. And in a
sense, what it's doing is it is

for them these sexual activities that
before they may have thought they were

only one.

The Internet here is great because it
has availability of information on all

this stuff that you would never go to
your librarian and ask for.

Excuse me, I'm really into piss play,
could you?

Give me a book that tells me HIV
transferred in urine.

We all have an element of light and
darkness within ourselves, and I think

certain types of play and certain
elements of this world allow us to

that, have fun with it, play with it. If
you embrace your dark side, you have

control over it.

And if you don't and you repress it, all
of a sudden it'll control you.

The dark.

is essentially wanting to be liberated
and received with love because the whole

universe is based on love and pleasure.

So essentially there's a lot of things
that people reject, yet everything is

here for us to experience.

I have clients that come to me who are
just exploring BDSM, and they're afraid,

and they feel shame -based.

They're having issues at home if they've
talked to husband or wife about it, and

husband or wife...

doesn't agree or feels uncomfortable.

They need connection to the community.
They need to know where to get started.

They need to know how to live, how to
get what it is they want.

And in many ways, I'm an educator.

And I really, really like that I'm
helping people to open their sexual

and feel comfortable with themselves and
stop having the shame of having more

love for themselves and acceptance for
that part of themselves.

I need somebody, or not just need, I...
Oh, it's total communication. I will

not. I will not get into a scene or get
into something unless I'm sure that that

person knows what they're doing.

Oh. The more guys that are in their 30s
are more apt to be...

interest in the same thing that I'm
interested in than guys in their 20s.

And I kind of sized them up and couldn't
tell.

what they're interested in, and if they
would be the type for me. One of the

things you're probably familiar with is
what we call the hanky code, a practice

of wearing a bandana or hanky in your
back pocket, left being active, right

being quote -unquote passive, meaning
you're the one who takes it, for lack of

better word, and red.

is the color for fisting. There's a
whole bunch of others, like blue for

fucking, light blue for blowjobs, black
for heavy S &M, gray for bondage, yellow

for water sports. It just goes on and
on. There's a lot of people into some

weird stuff, as far as sex is concerned.

It's not really that hard.

I mean, you just stick a hanky in your
pocket and somebody will come and start

talking to you. The whole nature of
consent in SM is widely misunderstood

because when you see it on television,
the bad, evil, nasty sadist does not sit

down and negotiate for an hour before
they actually get out their long, snaky,

terrible whip. They just start flailing
away.

Before anybody gets any toys out of the
bag, there's going to be a time when

people sit down and say, I really like
it when someone does this.

This, you know, I don't really like it,
but I'm willing to do it if you like it.

And this, I really don't want to do at
all.

You know, if you do that, then we don't
have a scene.

In order to negotiate a scene, you have
to follow four basic rules.

One is communication.

No matter what situation you're in, you
have to be able to communicate with the

person. When two people are alone and
one of them is naked and tied up and the

other one is standing over them with
their arms full of torture implements,

is not the time to have a mismatch of
expectations.

Whoever you're working with, you have to
trust, like with all your heart,

because there's...

I have a lot of hair, there's a lot of
fire, there's a lot of knives, there's

metal grinders with sparks flying.

And to me, it's very caring and loving
and trusting the person that you're

there with.

Once we agree upon, consensually, that
we're going to do a scene together, then

we need to commit to the scene.

We need to give ourselves over. I think
she's pretty committed right now. She's

actually allowed herself to be
restrained.

You can't get much more committed than
that. And she trusts me enough.

to allow her to be restrained,
especially in this setting now where

the interview, it's a private setting.
It's more intimate. The trust level goes

way up.

Her head space or her focus is in on the
scene, and that is even more so than

for the master or the top.

Some, you know, focus is being aware of
the body language, being aware of what's

happening, because like we said in the
beginning, she might not know what the

terminology is. And when you're
negotiating a scene, the standard for, A

is a stoplight sequence. Red, yellow,
green. Red stops a theme.

On a few occasions, I've learned that
the bottom wished that I

had stopped considerably before I did.

But at the time, they didn't communicate
that to me.

BDSM is a term used for the entire world
of fetish. BND, which is bondage and

discipline, DNS, which is dominant
submission, and, of course, S &M, which

theomasticism. BDSM is kind of a
generalized term used to compass all

areas. DNS is the psychological aspect
of BDSM. S &M is the physical aspect of

BDSM. We sort of divide things into
playing, you know, having sexual

or S &M activities with...

People who we like or are attracted to
versus more serious relationships,

romantic things.

And we just tend to divide those more
and not necessarily feel like they have

be one and the same.

I like really long things that last for
a weekend.

I've played, you know, up to 30 days
with somebody. I mean, not that for a

month. We don't just...

Have sex for an hour or 30 minutes. No,
this is a dream.

It's a continuation. Yeah, this could
be, it could be, yeah, at least six to

eight hours. I mean, that's pretty much
the minimal that most people in our

realm do.

Our level of experience. They are not
going to waste their time because really

most of them are very, very talented.

I mean, most of them are very talented.

How do you get into bondage? The
neighborhood boy, I was in second grade,

whatever age that is, tied me up on a
field.

and left me there. I was very scared,
and probably at that age, that was

probably one of the most exciting things
that had ever happened to me.

When he untied me, he just told me, I
remember him saying, don't tell anybody

did this or I'll really get you.

And I never did, but it certainly turned
me on.

Bondage involves a great deal of trust
with both parties, and that trust

factor alone I find very mentally
stimulating.

When one person is physically
restrained, it creates a certain

can be exciting to explore.

There are a number of reasons to
restrain somebody.

What the bottom does in the restraining
situation is that it's giving

themselves over, knowing that they are
in what you might call a helpless

position. That's a matter of trust.

It kind of changes the dynamics of the
scene.

I seem to put the people at ease, and
they're very trusting. I can pretty much

restrain everybody, blindfold everybody,
gag everybody, and do anything that I

want to them within reason. Most of the
people do have a code word, and I have

yet to have it used.

Just as a note to bottoms, never
critique your top while they're doing

thing. It'll be really mean to you.

What is it about being tied up that I
want to look for?

What is it about me that I get off on
time sometimes?

One of the main draws for bondage for me
was the fact that you go outside of

yourself by confining yourself to the
point that You have nowhere to go but a

little bit crazy, and then after you go
a little bit crazy, you go past that

into another place. And in that place,
it's incredibly free. You let go of

everything, all your troubles, all your
worries, your expectations, your hopes,

your anxieties, your fears. Everything
just melts away, and you come back a

different person.

How you tie them depends on what you
plan to have happen after you tie them.

most tiring part is...

The constant choreography that you have
to do, you know, if you want to do

something to someone later, you have to
have them in the right position, so you

have to keep thinking ahead all the
time.

Blindfolds are really good bondage
devices because when they can't see

coming at them, they don't cringe.

They don't change their natural relaxed
state.

Any kind of constriction or restriction
to the body has a soothing effect.

So sometimes a blindfold tends to relax
somebody.

Being blindfolded and really not knowing
who was coming in and I was having sex

with, that's actually really hot.

The guy wants to come in here on a
Friday afternoon after work and stay in

space until Sunday afternoon when we get
ready to go back to work the next day.

He wants no code word.

I can do anything I want to him. I can
rent him out. I can tie him up. He wants

sensory deprivation, the myth.

He's like a coffin type thing. He'd like
to be restrained in a jail cell.

He's been duct taped to a cell.

He likes to be in something like that
where I have total control. I get to do

anything that I want to. I would like to
try part of the getting your body

pulled in, closed in, like saran wrap,
duct tape.

The first time I ever actually
ejaculated, I still didn't know what the

was. I didn't know that this was coming.
I didn't know what ejaculation was or

anything.

I had no idea what saran wrap was. I
like the feeling of...

Having somebody else have control over
me that I trust.

I love it when people really are very
submissive. People who have real

jobs, the judges, the doctors, the
attorneys, the people who have to be in

control all the time.

They love to bottom.

They need to bottom. They're in control
all day.

And so whether it be with the dominatrix
or whether they're gay and they come

into a scene with a guy, that for a few
hours a week, they get to be out of

control. faithfully and have a good time
at it and then they can go back and be

in control.

What I look for in a top when I'm bottom
is someone who is able to keep me safe

and give me a safe place in which to
release and it's something that I as a

feel very honored by being allowed to do
for a bottom is to give them a safe

place to do a catharsis and to give them
the path to walk down to get to that

catharsis. I love power play because

From a topping aspect, it makes you feel
incredibly confident to know that you

can take somebody and they can give you
all of their trust to do anything with

them, even go beyond something that
probably is in a normal range of

thought safe.

I like to scare people.

My biggest thing is losing the control
aspect, because I've always been in

control of everything that has to do
with my life, and it's kind of like...

forte is role -playing. Role -playing
scenes where it involves authority.

It could be any kind of uniformed
officer, person, anything where

there's authority involved.

I can be top, bottom, master,

daddy boy.

I enjoy all the different directions.
There's something to be gained from each

position.

domination and submission in role play,
the more you understand that really

there's giving and sharing both ways.

And, you know, the person who's in the
top role, the dominant role, is very

much, you know, giving to the person in
the submissive role.

I do enjoy playing with an overt age
play dynamic in which one person acts

a grown -up and another person acts like
a child.

That's the only thing I don't switch in.
I only bought them to age play.

I cannot seem to, I think because
parenting is so recently in my own past,

can't eroticize being a parent, but I
can eroticize being a child. Older men

were actually a sought -after commodity,
if

they're in decent shape, I guess a
little bit at least, as daddies.

And there's lots of younger guys, boys
who...

You want that emotional connection,
physical connection to a daddy. When I

young man, I was a boy.

Now that I'm an older man, I play a
daddy, a sir.

More dominant.

I do more bottoming or submissive stuff,
although I do do the other mode

as well.

But I'd like to enjoy the other setting
a little bit more.

It's just like acting.

You each sort of take a role, and the
more you play that role and the more

you stay to that role, the more it
intensifies the scene.

They dressed me up, and they wanted me
to play a dog.

They wanted me to be a male dog.

and act the part. They put food out on
the floor for me. I wasn't allowed in

of the furniture.

And then she was determined to break my
ass in. I was a virgin at that point.

And she didn't take no for an answer.

They had a scene with me where I was
supposed to deep throat her dildo while

her partner was bull whipping me.

And I remember I started screaming and
she said, shut up.

Only make a sound if you're choking, not
if you're screaming and you're in pain.

I realized

I was bigender when I was little. I

kind of knew I was in the wrong body. My
parents put me in therapy about my

sexuality at a young age.

I started taking hormones now about
almost three years ago.

I've not had chest surgery, working on
it, and don't ever plan on having

surgery. I started off thinking I was
just going to be a big fag, because it's

always what I've wanted to be, and
always what I thought I was, and I'm

up figuring out I'm actually very
bigendered and very bisexual.

I like both men and women, and always
have. I mean, I've dated men and women

a dick, I fuck fags, and now as a fag,
I...

Fuck, thanks.

Sometimes I get to play with these big
muscle guys, right, these gym boys that

look up to because I don't work out. You
know, I'm 54.

I'm in okay shape, but I'm certainly not
looking like that.

So they kind of intimidate me, you know,
with this incredible look.

And these great big guys, they just want
me to take them down and top them and

do whatever I want to.

And to me, I was just like, what a turn
on you. Give me your body. Give me your

mind. This one guy, a little college
professor, he's like 5 '2", called me

and I remember going there at 4 in the
morning and walked through the door,

shoved him down on the floor, and all he
wanted me to do was to kick him,

kick him and stomp his nuts with my high
-heeled boot.

and I stuck the heel of my boot up his
ass, made him clean it, everything.

It's very interesting.

I got the opportunity to pop a group of
bodybuilders that were all like 240

pounds and very much larger than me, and
I was thinking, I got out of the room,

they're all ready to play, and I'm
like...

How in the fuck am I going to be able
to, like, control these guys? Because

they're all so much bigger than me, they
can take me out really easy. And then I

forgot that, you know, I always have
some blades on me. So it's nice to be

to pull out a knife and have a control
factor because people are going to do

what you say when you hold the knife up
to them.

Once you've played and handled knives
for a little bit, very safely, I'd say

best thing to do is just use it on your
own skin and find out what you can do

with it.

You can do a lot of stuff that doesn't
hurt you at all, but it's quite scary to

people that have that fear of knives,
like people are afraid of snakes.

It feels really great when a person's
blindfolded because they don't know why

you're holding up the skin.

They realize that there's a knife up
against the skin, but because there's

different types of blades, you can get
different textures.

Practice on yourself a little bit first.
Know how hard you can use any specific

type of knife, how much pressure you
need to actually apply before breaking

skin and then keep it extremely light.

It's also because you're cutting the
skin, you're getting into blood play as

well, which brings a whole other factor.

When you're playing any type of play
that involves piercing the skin at all,

you're now taking it into the level of a
medical surgical setting, which means

having a completely sterile field.

There are things that can be very
dangerous, but some people choose to do

anyway. One thing that I'm a little
apprehensive about is breath control.

where you're actually inhibited from
breathing, from taking in oxygen.

And that's like a general fear that I
have, and it also happens to be kind of

borderline sex act.

And to explore that, it's kind of a
fantasy. You mix the two, you get

out of it.

Breath control is my biggest thing,
probably. What type of breath control?

My absolute favorite is plastic bags.

I use this basically.

It's very cool to share a breath with
somebody, like when you're kissing to

a breath back and forth.

It's also cool to see how long you can
both go or one of you can go while

holding your breath, giving the person
control to be able to close off your

airway. It is an incredible power
exchange because you're giving the

opportunity to take away one of your
main, you know, things that you need.

To live, which is your oxygen.

As an animal, our natural instinct is to
try to procreate before we die.

Everybody thinks we're going to die. So
when you are short of air like that and

you're being choked or whatever, your
dick's going to get hard. Whether you

think you like that stuff or not, it's
going to happen. It happens.

It's like a physical reaction.

Linear. Twisted.

What is FNM about?

S &M refers to sadomasochism, and
usually in terms of how it's used, it's

referring to pain, either receiving it
or giving it.

Yes, sir.

It has nothing to do with harming
somebody out of hatred or...

judgment at all. It's about play. It's
about doing these things to heighten

sexuality, sexuality and mentality and
most of your sex is going on in your

brain. So bringing these things into the
realm of sex is truly fucking with

somebody's head. You're fucking with
their mind.

There is something to be said for the
joy of hurting someone else.

if that's what it is that they want.

The barriers come down with it between
people during intense consensual pain.

It's like all the safeguards that you
put on yourself to be yourself in the

world, you can't do those anymore.
You're too focused on what's happening

your body and they all go away in much
the same way that they go away during a

strong orgasm. You're just, you have no
arm ring, you have no shell.

It's all there.

You can truly make love to somebody in
everything that that means, the

the sweetness, the gentleness, the
power, the control, the surrender, the

You can use all those elements and
include bondage and S &M and pain and

stimulation as part of it, and it just
intensifies it.

You don't do anything to the submissive
or the bottom's body beyond their

ability to self -heal. There might be
bruises or there might be welts or

something, but you're not going to see
large, gaping lacerations. You're not

going to see fractures, and you're
certainly not going to see dead bodies.

I've never been hurt by anything.

For me, part of it's related to the rush
of pain. So when you whip on me and

welt at my back and...

And then it stops. It gets really
intense and it peaks and it stops.

And then the next thing I feel is the
tickles of his chest hair on my back. He

puts his arms around me, you know, and I
love you, boy. You know, I'm right here

with you. Daddy's here.

I love zippers.

Zippers are basically a leather thong
with clothespins that are tied off

usually at about two and a half inch
intervals.

And the zippers that I have are like 11
of those clothespins on another thong.

And I can take those clothespins and pin
them in a row down somebody's skin and

leave it on for several minutes and 20.

And then at some point, I take one end
of the thong and I rip it off.

And it rips all the clothespins off at
once.

This is incredibly intense.

and causes a lot of pain.

One of my fetishes, of course, is
spanking buttocks.

The buttocks is divided up, what we
call, into four quadrants. One, two,

four. And the nerve endings on the
inside of the buttocks tend to be more

sensitive.

If you're going to use your hand, for
example, the proper way to strike is you

want to have your hand slightly cupped
and you aim for a particular quadrant.

You want to almost aim heel first
because what we will show you with the

called wrapping.

So you take your hand.

And you cup this way.

That's quadrant one, two, on the
outside, three.

And then if I'm right -handed, I can try
to get in there. But generally what

I'll do on this side is I'll come in
with my left hand and snap this way.

is called the court.

This is probably one of the most painful
implements that somebody can use.

My favorite toy in the entire world are
single tails.

When the tail hits you, it's really hot,
and it just kind of sends this deep,

intense electricity deep inside your
body.

The sensation is incredible.

It's a lot more work and a lot more
effort and a lot more strain on the top

keep all of that flogging going than it
is for the bottom wall. You have to lie

there and take it.

The tops are injured by having their
arms thrown out. The bottoms are ever

injured by having their arms thrown out.

wealth on their backs.

At the bottom, I enjoy floggers a lot.
At the top, I tend to go for canines.

They're light, and a lot of times, the
people that I play with at the top are

heavy masks, unlike along the scene.

When one is flogged, it's a totally
different sensation from being canned.

Canine is more of a stinging sensation.

It's more intense in the moment.

It hurts more. They leave a very unique
double -track mark. It looks like a

railroad tracks with no lines between
that everybody recognizes. You can look

someone's butt and go, ooh, that cane
last night.

You can start with something at this
level, you know, the California -style

cane. You can just warm up skin with it
by tapping like this, or you can, I'm

reluctant to use this on my hand, you
can take it up to like that level, which

is, you know, it hurts a bit.

but it's within most people's capacity
to deal with this at this level for a

while. And then later, you can hit hard.

I tend to like to focus the bulk of my
strokes on the lower part of

the buttocks or the crack where the
buttocks meet the thighs because I think

that's what feels best to most people.
But then you try to spread some out down

onto the thighs.

If I've done a good caning, I will see
the concentration of the marks and the

redness on, like, the bottom third of
the butt cheeks and maybe the top couple

of inches of the thighs and a couple of
other strokes just to keep them guessing

a little bit outside that target range.

The part that's going to hurt the most
and leave the deepest mark, if there's

going to be a mark, is going to be the
tip.

And so you have to get used to being
able to whip or cane from either side.

you know, a right hand in person.

is going to cane this way, and their
bottom is going to go home with the far

butt cheek all chewed up and nothing
happening at all on the near butt cheek,

and it's kind of amateurish. I was
actually caning somebody on stage one

and accidentally drew blood. Actually,
it wasn't accidentally. We had

it, and the blood started kind of
getting all over the place, so I stopped

dropped the cane and literally...

She smeared the blood all over her and
at the same time shredded the clothes

her on stage and just completely coated
her in her own blood.

It's going to hurt.

These are three buckle handprints, and
they're really nice for bending people

off the ground or at least anchoring
them, and it's relatively comfortable.

It's hard to bend people off the ground
and make it comfortable, but this works

really nice, especially for flogging.

not gender -related.

And I was having these wonderful
interactions with people of all sorts of

orientations, and it didn't make any
difference.

Heterosexuals don't play too roughly or
too intensely, like with physical pain.

Gay men play more intensely, and lesbian
women are very much on the high end of,

oh my God, what are you doing?

Almost anybody can learn to enjoy being
flogged at some level unless they have a

very visceral response to the whole idea
of being hit. The body has an

incredible ability to experience pain in
a different realm from what we have

been conditioned in our society to feel.

I have a very high tolerance for pain,
so there's not much that bothers me

anymore. Flogging can feel like a
wonderful massage on the heavy muscles

back if you're using a flogger that's
got some weight and kind of a thuddy,

sensation to it. Or it can feel like
you're being scanned alive.

You slowly work it up from what is

a pleasant massage.

into intensity with just a thin edge of
pain.

You kind of work up the edge of the pain
until it becomes so beautifully extreme

and you're so driven out of your body
that it becomes an

ecstatic experience.

If someone would have told me at one
time that I would long for the feel of a

piece of leather strapping against my
back.

I would have thought they were insane.

The downside to floggers is that they
tend to be expensive, and they take a

certain amount of practice to learn to
use well.

The back is divided into four quadrants,
one, two, three, four.

The area you want to avoid is the
kidneys.

Up here is more of a massage zone, and
again, you would want to swing the crop

or the flogger, excuse me, back in this
direction across the middle of the back.

One of the common mistakes when swinging
a flogger, is wrapping.

What happens is if you do not aim with
the bristles, the bristles now have to

it on this side so you can see it.

They'll wrap around the body.

And what happens is as the front part of
the bristles hit the body this way,

they accelerate around and it really
creates a...

Stinging sensation, you can actually
bruise, and it's really not good, and

don't want to do it, especially on the
sides. You're a lot more sensitive.

So as for a beginner, I recommend using
this particular whip. It's a little

shorter. It's easier to aim, and you're
more accurate.

There are endorphin rushes. There are
people who enjoy playing the sensation

play just for the endorphin rushes that
they get.

It's a non -addictive, free, non
-illegal drug.

The pain and pleasure centers are in the
same part of the brain.

So that whole feeling you get the
instant after you get that sharp pain,

the kind of cool -down phase. It just
kind of puts you in almost like a

state, which is great.

I mean, it's almost like a drug. It's a
natural tie.

I was being bullwhipped one time, and I
was in a very aggressive mood. I wanted

someone to bring me down at that moment.

And so the whipping made sense in the
beginning, and it brought me down. It

beating it out of me.

And then I reached that wall and I
crossed over. And at that point, I just

became one with everything that was
going on. I just kind of vaporized in

room. It was the most narcotic feeling
I'd ever experienced in my life. Better

than any drug I'd ever taken.

And better than anyone I could ever
imagine.

I once asked a boy, I was vlogging.

He told me before the scene, don't
listen to anything I say. No matter what

say, just keep doing it until you want
to stop.

The vlogging was about, I think, 45
minutes into this.

He was just screaming, I mean, because
it's the buildup, and stopped.

And then I said, I'm not going to stop.
He said, I don't care what I said

before. Ignore that. I don't mean that
now.

I knew he was going to say that.

I just kept doing it. He disappeared.

He was just hanging there.

And I kept...

Fogging him for maybe just three or four
more hits. And there was no reaction

physically from him. And what had
happened was he broke.

And later he explained he went somewhere
else.

He could hear me fogging him. He could
feel it. But it didn't hurt. His mind

somewhere else.

And that's what the experience he was
looking for.

And if I had stopped before he broke
because he was telling me to stop, it

wouldn't have happened.

It's kind of an edgy area to play in.
But you've got to know the person before

you do something like that.

And I said, where did you go?

And he said, I was a vegetable.

I was just a vegetable.

I could feel it. It didn't hurt.

I saw you. It was like I was floating
above you, watching you hit me.

It took him a few hours to come back. I
mean, he was there, but he was just like

so soft, so quiet, so mellow.

Now, if you were on the outside of the
scene watching somebody else hit

and seeing that,

you would probably think this was
terrible.

Nobody's just beating the shit out of
somebody. That hurts.

But if you understand what the dynamics
are between the two people and see the

results afterwards and know certainly
that it's mutual, I don't think the

psychiatric profession gives us credit
for what the therapy that can be.

The first time I flew, I hadn't even
heard of flying, and that was years ago,

and I was being fogged by it
particularly.

talented top, who just kept on flogging
and have pushed and pushed.

When I say that floggers aren't
necessarily as intense as kinks, I don't

that it's not, that it's easy to take
them.

It's just a different sensation.

And I find that for me when I am pushed
to a point where I can't.

take it anymore, and then I just accept
that pain, it pushes me to the next

level. And if it continues on, I go
through a state of where I

actually feel like my body is, my soul
is leaving my body, and it happens

from to the right, out of my right
shoulder.

And it's like every cliche you've ever
read about or heard, it's like walking

into the white light.

The time it happened, it just totally
freaked me out.

I thought I was dying. And up until that
point, I had never saved what was

sacred.

And I remember going through this whole
mind trip, like going, oh, my God, this

is so wonderful. It feels so great.

And then going, well, what's happening
to me?

And then going, this is what I've ever
read about dying. I must be dying.

And then going, I don't care.

It feels too good. You don't want to
come back. You're afraid if you go any

further, you won't come back.

And you don't know if you want to.

You know, and you start really going
through your mind going, whoa, what is

going on here? You know, it's like I'm
not high. I'm totally okay with this.

bottom or the boy or...

The receiver is being tested. He's being
pushed. He's being pushed to his outer

limits, just that little bit more.

And so he gets that energy of knowing
that he's taking himself out to that

limit, and he's also expanding himself
to a point, almost to the breaking

but he's surviving, he's making, and
he's accomplishing this thing, and he's

also experiencing something new.

And then on the top, the master side,
he's got this person putting his life in

his hands and saying, okay, I trust you,
you know, and so he can do that. But

with that power comes this
responsibility, and a good top

says, that's enough.

And he loves you and he respects you
because you did put that trust in his

hands.

And he pulls you back because, yeah,
anyone can let you go, you know.

The real responsibility comes with
bringing you back.

And that's, to me, it's tough.

Pushing through a pile of papers is a
completely different experience when you

know you can take a good whippin', I'll
tell you that.

I like nipple clamp a lot. The thing
about the nipples is that they're very,

very, it's a very intense erogenous
zone.

And you do get a huge endorphin rush
after you do it. And of course,

tongue on them.

When they do bite, I do feel that.

Let me pull it off.

My ball weighted down, and I've had up
to 11 pounds

drinking my ball for 10 minutes.

There's a little bit of pain in there,
but now it's more like it's stretching.

It's an interesting sensation.

I have a floor pulley system that one of
my submissives invented, which has the

person spread eagle on the floor.

And I do rope bondage, making like a
body harness with the rope. All the

that connect to the wrists and the wrist
cuffs and the ankle cuffs, they all

connect through pulleys to ropes that
come around the room and then merge

in between the person's legs.

And they have clips on them, and you can
adjust them. And they hook right to the

rope attached to the testicle.

So if the person is to move their arms
or legs, then they pull on their

testicles. It's really fabulous.

You know, they feel very helpless, and
it's exciting.

I was suspended 100 feet above the floor
in an elevator shaft and had about 24

pounds of weight hanging from my balls
and was flown around like a kite.

This device is something that I made
myself.

It's a cock and ball.

It's really a cock and ball crusher.
There was nothing available commercially

that really worked, and I decided that I
would just make my own and something

that did work and accomplish what I
wanted to do.

Basically, what it does, it secures the
balls very tightly.

They're really quite long, and I've been
able to take the whole thing. God knows

where they go.

It burns a little.

It feels very full.

You can grade up in size.

of rod so that the thicker ones are
really kind of pushing on it. It's

like having a dildo in your dickhead.
It's an outrageous feeling to have that

big tube shoved down your dickhead.

When you come afterwards, because you've
been tenderized in there, it's really

very intense. It's slightly painful, but
exceedingly stimulating and erotic.

I am going to show you something that
I'm a little shy about doing, but my

genitalia has changed incredibly on T.

I used to have a very, very, like, half
-P -sized clit, and it was covered with

a lot of hood.

And now, when I pump, especially, it
enlarges like most men's penises do.

And actually, I use the same kind of
pump men do, the little San Francisco

special. This is what it looks like
before I start pumping.

It's already pretty large.

And since I don't have a penis, once I
get this pumped up and on, I'll detach

it, and I'll watch porno, and I'll
actually jack off with this. Kind of cut

the... the foot.

So I'll get a good session.

And then I just pump for a while.

And I play with it.

And after a while, it gets kind of big.

And I probably do this at least once or
twice a week because I keep trying to

encourage growth.

It's a little pulley and kind of burny
sensation, but inside of

where more of the erectile tissue is, up
in here and over to the side, it's

actually kind of exciting. It's almost
like somebody's just playing really hard

with my clit.

But this is kind of what it looks like
once it's pumped up.

And that's what it looks like when I'm
getting head and...

Getting fucked. So eventually it'll get
larger as I, you know, rub it down with

tea and also pump it.

Since I've been on testosterone, I tend
to ejaculate now, where I never had

female ejaculation before.

I actually ejaculate, and it's pretty
incredible.

It's an incredible sensation.

I always wondered what I was missing out
on all those years, and now I know, and

it's a good thing.

I do temporary piercing.

It's a different kind of energy in a
scene than something like zippers or

flogging or caning. It's concerned. It's
a lot quieter, more mellow, but not

necessarily less intense.

My first experience actually piercing
somebody was piercing somebody who had

this really amazingly thick skin, but
they were smooth.

Piercing somebody really hairy is a
little bit of a challenge in and of

It was hard to get the next needle to go
where you want it so that it matches in

line with the previous needle.

And that was real slow.

You like the needles, I can tell.

I got the really sick and twisted idea
that with my friend who I had just put a

Prince Albert piercing in his dick.

He was HIV positive as well, and we've
had bareback sex before.

I used the blood from his newly pierced
dick as lube

to fuck him with after I had just put
the jewelry in his dick.

I'm really looking forward to sometime
actually doing suspension by temporary

hypodermic needle piercing

like 300 -pound test wire for fishing
for sturgeon.

There's ergonomic points in your body
that you can place the piercings, tie

knots with the fishing line, tie it to
either a

scaffolding or eye bolt strategically
placed in the ceiling, and slowly let

air out of the mattress that your
subject is laying on.

only to discover for them that there was
a space of about eight inches below

them, and they're only suspended by the
little piercings in their skin tied to

strings.

Valentine's Day at about 11 .30 at
night, and we had a mirror right here,

put, he gave me my PA.

It's my Valentine's Day present. I'm
really happy with it.

Electricity used properly can be very
exciting and stimulating.

These are little electro bands. We call
them blue bands because they're blue.

And they will transmit the electricity
from this little box that I've got here.

So you just wet them?

Yeah.

Positive, negative. It can go back and
forth between the two.

Tell me when you're first feeling it.

Booyah. Start to feel it already?

Sort of like a...

The sensation you get when you go numb,
like when your hands go numb and they

start to really tingle, except it's
pulsing.

And then it's speeding up and slowing
down, speeding up and slowing down.

I'm mostly feeling it in my cock.

This little box, I've never been able to
bring it all the way up with anybody

that I've ever played with.

Some of the other boxes that are out
there are all nice boxes, but sometimes

run out of power.

Usually about halfway up is what most
people can take.

This little box has a lot of different

features to it. I don't want to do a
commercial for the box, but it's got a

microphone in it, so I can set it up to
just sit.

The sound in the room causes the
electricity to change, and the slightest

change makes a little bit of change in
the voice.

Get out of there.

Get it off your desk.

all the different attachments to it.

I like everything from, you know, doing
a hard massage with your hand to where

you almost can't feel anything to doing
a soft one where your hand just kind of

turns electric to actually sparking,
like maybe sparking the nipples. I enjoy

all aspects of the Violet Wand.

What is the Violet Wand?

It's a large, looks like a light bulb,
and it's purple.

and it has all these kind of
Frankenstein rays that come out from it.

basically is is a Tesla coil that runs a
current through this blue ball. It

creates an arc, kind of like a needle.

You're into this, aren't you?

What's nice about a smaller thing is I
can get up into some tight places.

Ooh, I can belt that.

Well, the belt attachment, which now
makes me the conductor.

This plugs in here like this.

And I can fit this down here.

And now you can hear it.

Now this almost feels like a vibrator.
You can hear it, you know, going through

her chin. But if I tap my fingers, I
don't know if you can see it in the

but it actually leaves like a little
spark.

I do enjoy working with fire.

I'm pretty good with fire.

I like fire a lot.

I kind of sat at the bar and a guy had a
glass of 151 and I kind of took it and

rolled it down my arm and then set my
arm on fire. I like the reaction of

people. I'm not just playing with the
other person or with a toy, but the fire

itself is actually another entity that
kind of has its own set of rules.

You're taking something else out there
and you're kind of molding it or playing

with it. And I mean molding or
manipulating it because we do, some of

will do designs on somebody who will
play with fire on the skin and will run

trails of fire up their back or
whatever. And I can also control how

stays on the skin so I can control how
much they feel it.

I love using fire on the skin, doing
alcohol and doing fire on the skin, fire

like a knife, like a gun.

You bring that into the scene and people
automatically are like, whoa, wait a

minute. This is a bit nasty.

I like eating a sweet butt and I like
playing with butt.

I like opening up another man and giving
him that pleasure. I like feeling my

own hand inside of his body and that
thrill knowing that I'm inside of him.

Exploration of the anus is something
that it's really profoundly about.

Breaking down the boundary between self
and the other.

Butts are funny things. The more you
give them, the more they want.

I stick a baseball bat on my ass. I
really like fucking people with a strap

I've actually put a speculum inside
somebody and opened them up and then

carefully taken a knife and slid it down
within the clamps of the speculum so it

was safe because the person's skin would
never have ever come in contact with

the blade.

But the visual of actually seeing...

A knife entering somebody and coming
back out was pretty amazing. I've got a

dildo called Mr. Ed. It was made from a
mold of a horse's dick. It's pretty

great. I had this 12 -inch dildo about
an inch and a half diameter.

I kept going in and out with it, and I
accidentally got it stuck.

I actually pushed it in too far. All in
all, this 12 -inch dildo...

Is worth a hundred bucks an inch. It
cost me like $1 ,200 to get this stupid

thing out. On occasions, I've just done
a whole night of just toys with a friend

that... That's what he's into too, and
we can just keep trading toys back and

forth, sometimes both sitting on the
same toy, etc.

And that can be fun.

What are your favorite toys?

Acrylic toys that you can see inside and
mount cameras in and do light shows

inside and project that onto a wall.

A glass plug is about that long. It
looks like a regular latex butt plug,

a little bit smaller.

I've seen it actually in a few porn
films, and it has two electrodes

the end, and it gets inserted in your
butt, and then there's a box about this

big with a dial on it, and the top just
turns that and keeps turning it, or you

can do it yourself.

And it feels like pins and needles at
first, but depending on what setting you

put it at,

It can feel like an actual pulsing
movement, which is totally an electrical

charge going into your butt, and your
nerves are responding in a way that it

feels like you've actually got a dildo
in there pushing in and out. And it's

very exciting when you realize that this
is all electrical.

Are you ready for fist bumping?

Red is the color for handball and or
fisting.

I get fisted and do the business.

I fist both anally and vaginally, and I
fist with these nails.

I haven't gotten fisted yet, but I'd
like to.

I've taken, I guess, up to about there.

Do you think that anybody could be a
fisted?

With the right amount of coaxing and the
right amount of foreplay.

Yes. Somebody put their hand in me one
day and they liked it.

One finger in a butt and a fist in a
butt is simply a matter of degree.

One finger in a pussy, fist in a pussy
is a matter of degree.

I tried for many years and I never
thought, I thought it was because I was

small that it just wasn't going to
happen for me. And I'd come pretty

to that. And somebody that I trusted and
I wanted to be with and wanted to be

that close with, it just happened.

After a lot of time, the minute it went
in, I

was okay with it.

All these fears that I had just went
behind me. I was like, as a young man in

20s, crazy to find out what it was
about.

And I spent a good six weeks with a
particular guy every few nights I'd go

and eventually he got in me. I just kept
buying bigger and fatter toys and

fitting on them, watching videos.

And once I arrived at a certain
thickness that I could comfortably take,

I could take a fist. And within a week,
I had.

Gage's hands are exceptionally big.

He's been able to fist me before
testosterone kind of did things to his

And they got a lot wider is what it is.
And I'm pretty accommodating, but not

anymore. So what we're doing is we're
doing things to...

Stretch me up so that I can be
accommodating again.

Not the inside, especially the opening.
Yeah. My hands have gotten large enough.

She's got plenty of room inside.

It's getting past the opening with her
because she feels like once I get to a

certain part, she's tearing because my
hands have gotten that much larger. But

she's got plenty of room inside.

Are we talking about vaginal fisting?
Yeah, vaginal. Okay.

Yeah.

That is the center of my... And the
balloon is the...

It's the pump off of a blood pressure
cup, the little bulb, affixed to medical

tubing, affixed to an industrial, like,
triple -thick type of latex balloon.

So it gets actually huge. It's one of
these balloons that you can blow up with

helium that are just humongous. But when
you use it, it's just the right size

that when you put it in, if you put it
in only halfway, you can stretch. I used

to use it to stretch my ass.

So I could get bigger stuff into my
butt. If you believe that it's

for you to get fisted, it will be
impossible for you to get fisted.

The first thing a person would have to
do who wants to explore fisting or even

much less anal penetration, they'd have
to know to cut and file their nails. The

nails that I have right now are actually
too long to do any sort of anal fisting

or play.

A day or two before I know that I'm
going to do some heavy playing, and in

particular case I want to make sure I'm
really prepared for it, I start eating

lighter and lighter. And there are
certain things in your diet you stop

Things like corn, certain grains,
certain nuts.

Your body doesn't process them very
easily and very quickly, and so it's

difficult to get yourself cleaned out
for that. Then basically I use a douche

hose, and it takes me about an hour or
two to do it. I don't play with anybody

that isn't clean.

And if they get dirty, then they go off
the house.

You excuse it, and you let them go take
care of it, and you come back. You would

certainly need lubricant, a lot of it,
and then you would start.

Unless the person was very experienced
and greedy, you would start with one

finger, simply one.

And as long as it took to get the finger
into the anus, you would spend that

much time. This is not really quickie
sex for most people, although, again, if

someone's experienced and very greedy,
they can go faster than others.

And you would touch around the anus. If
you imagine that this is an anus, it

looks a little bit like one, not enough.

You'd touch all around.

You'd begin to smooth in and give a
little bit of pressure, but not a lot of

poking. Poking is not the way to go.

Instead, if the person bears down a
little bit, breathes out, bears down,

just sort of slide your finger in like
that, rock it in.

And then the anus has actually put
itself onto the finger, and you can

move in more quickly or slowly,
depending on the person. And once you've

finger in, it's a matter of sort of...

Touching and moving and stimulating from
the inside, stretching out a little

bit, not forcibly, but as the person is
willing and able to stretch.

Generally insisting the idea to get past
this, which is the internal and

external anal sphincter.

The external anal sphincter is made of
skeletal muscle. Anyone can relax.

the external anal sphincter. The
internal anal sphincter is made of

muscle, and you have to be relaxed
enough in order to relax the internal

sphincter. It's not necessarily under
voluntary command, and oftentimes it's

internal anal sphincter that gets
damaged if the fisting is done too

that the bottom doesn't have time to
accommodate the stretch of the fist.

People are worried about damaging their
buttholes, for example, you know, like

ripping it open.

freaking it out too far, worried about
incontinence and such other issues,

are, as far as I'm concerned,
essentially nonsense. I've never met an

incontinent fister. I know a couple in
their 70s that are still doing it, and

they're fine, and the key there being
it's smooth muscle. And, for example, if

you have a proctoscope, you'll get
opened up like this.

And that's not something that generally
happens, except to the most of...

the more extreme of our practitioners.

Open your mind and your ass will follow.

I think fisting is really the most
intense interpersonal relationship that

can have with another man, both giving
and getting.

Vaginal fisting is really intense, and
even when we were trying and it wasn't

successful, it was still something
really amazing, and the connection and

energy that was involved in it.

It's completely different than anything
else I've experienced.

It's practiced by a wide variety of
people, not just in the leather

have lots of patients that are into
fisting. They've actually come in and

me pictures of their fisting scene. So,
you know, I know it can be done, and

they do it in a very safe way.

There is life on other planets, and
they're watching.

What must they be thinking if they saw
this?

It just looks odd, you know? It's this
appendage going inside of a...

Of a person's asshole.

One finger, two finger, three finger.
This is pretty cool.

Hey, you know, then this happens. Wow,
this is pretty awesome. All of a sudden,

it pulled me in.

God, God.

Oh,

oh, oh, wow.

Why doesn't everybody?

do this. It is so incredible.

The difference between fucking and

fisting is that when you're fucking
someone, then all you're doing is trying

get pleasure for yourself.

You really are. And this is what I think
is probably true in 90 % of the guys

that I know.

They're simply trying to get pleasure
for themselves.

But when you're fisting, there's a
connection there.

And the guy who's on top is really doing
everything he can to pleasure the guy

that's on the bottom.

Why would somebody want to stick a fist
up their ass?

That's not that. That's like going to
heaven. If you've never experienced

it, you can't really explain it to
somebody who hasn't experienced it. But

definitely transcendental attention to
another kind of reality.

And it's amazing.

I don't understand the excitement over
it, but I guess it's the power and the

overtaking of someone and someone being
able to do something so extreme.

A million guys don't take this up their
ass because it ain't pleasurable. You've

got to understand, all these people are
doing this because there's something

there. I think I experienced an
endorphin high once. It was like a mind

orgasm. Literally, it felt like I had an
orgasm.

I was stroking my dick while I was being
fisted.

And when I actually had the orgasm, I
felt

like every molecule in my brain had just
shattered.

It's earth shattering. It is a complete,
physical, total orgasm from the very

top of your hair to the end of your last
toenail. Your body rocks.

With waves.

Pleasure. For most people, just the
sheer challenge of getting the fist past

anal sphincters is part of the pleasure.
For other people, it's how far they can

get. People brag about getting to the
elbow or getting to the shoulder.

Oh, fuck.

What the hell does the guy who's
sticking his fist up the other guy's ass

from it?

Once you're in, it's like a different
world.

It's hot. It's soft.

It's incredibly vulnerable.

There's an artery that goes from the
heart right down past along the side of

rectum, and you can feel the heartbeat.

It's extraordinarily intimate.

I find it to be the most intimate,
passionate, giving,

pleasurable, trusting thing

you could possibly do with another human
being.

The feeling of being inside someone is
sort of indescribable. It's like the

softest silk you could possibly feel
wrapped around your arm.

I like giving it, yeah. Yeah, I like the
domination aspect of anything.

It's just an amazing feeling of power to
have your hand up inside somebody's

butt. I've been topping for about a year
and a half.

They were having so much fun, I thought
I'd find out why.

I found out why.

There's always this, oh my God, we're
losing all our tops because they've just

gotten their cherries opened.

But I really get rock hard by topping. I
really get hard playing in a guy's ass.

When I do vaginal fisting, I'll
sometimes come while I'm fisting the

in spite of having no genital
stimulation of my own.

When the bottom...

starts to move on his own and acquire
his own orgasm and find his own pleasure

on your arm and you find the pattern and
you find the rhythm and you go with it

and you take him from a point of
uncontrollable orgasm.

There can't be anything higher than
that. I have, you know, come without

touching myself from topping someone.

I feel that my soul is touching the
other person's soul.

I like to be the top in water sports.

I like pissing on guys.

I like getting pissed off, like drinking
piss.

The only thing I'm not real fond of is
someone pissing on my ass.

Yeah, yeah, you feel my piss in you?
Yeah.

I love wearing piss out of anyone. The
aspect that I like the most about it is

defying the person who's doing it to you
by enjoying it.

I followed a leather man home one night.

And he put me in his bathtub and pissed
on me.

When I'm giving head, nothing turns me
on more than to have somebody piss down

my throat or pee on me while we're,
like, having sex.

Water sports is pretty safe.

Medically, urine is considered a sterile
body fluid.

Drinking urine would not be considered
bad in that it should not contain

bacteria. Extra water sports, perfectly
safe. There's not anything that you have

to worry about that.

I found that urine therapy was fabulous.

There's a lot more how -to material
today, and one of the things that

sexologists attribute that to, in fact,
is the HIV epidemic bringing more and

more different possible sexual options
onto safe and possibly safe sex lists.

The brochures that began to be handed
out in around 1985 or 6... It included

things like fisting and golden showers.

And so the golden showers was probably
safe. You know, that sort of thing.

What a mainstreaming effect that must
have had on this play.

And I know it had that effect for me.

Not that I hadn't fantasized about it
ahead of time.

Yeah, go into the bathroom and just get
into the tub.

And, you know, that's all over you.

It's hot.

It had a smell to it. I don't know if it
smells.

It had the...

You have to know the quality of the
urine of the person.

You know, if it's the person getting
their own urine, that's one thing, you

know? But is the person drinking
alcohol? Are they taking drugs? I mean,

the quality of the water coming from
that person? When it's good, it's a

bitter, a little salty, very warm.

Depending on how much beer or liquid
somebody's been drinking, it can be a

little more intense and funky than
otherwise. I like it when it's a little

more diluted. I love dicks.

I love everything that comes out of
dicks.

And it's just sort of reveling in a
guy's dick.

I was playing with somebody who, after
they beat me, we were in an area

where we had laid down a rubber sheet
because we were doing some blood sport

stuff. And I had, you know, little
openings in my skin, but not a lot. And

stood over me and peed on me.

And I'll tell you, it was the most
incredible sensation I've ever had.

Some of my patients have said, well,
what if you are whipping your slave and

then you piss over your slave after the
end of the whipping scene?

That's fine, but you shouldn't leave it
on for too long. In the rule book, it

would be considered unsafe behavior
because I like to piss up a guy's butt

sometimes.

Some of my patients have showed me
videos where they show people pissing

catheter bags and then using that to
stick it in someone's ass and then

a fifth enema that way. That is about as
safe as you can get. One thing my ma

'am and I do is in the morning when we
shower, she pees on me. It's the most

incredible thing because it's a
wonderful way to wake up and be reminded

place in her world. If you want to bond
with someone, you know.

I seriously bond with them and feel at
one with them and have a kind of a

I just remembered, you know, you drink
their urine. It's a sort of a connection

with the other person, with bodily fluid
that is physically hot.

intellectually hot at the same time.
Fitting on somebody, you know, in its

truest form is an insult, but in the
realm of play between consensual

it can be very fun.

I used to say, there's no way in hell
anyone's ever going to piss on me.

I've never seen ever in this scene.

It's amazing how your boundaries change
over the years, you know, and where

you're willing to go, and where you're
willing to go for the right person.

Sort of like being little boys, just
goofing around.

Here we are, we're pissing on one
another.

Hop in a tub sometime and try it.

Scapped? No, I'm not into it. Anything
except that.

That is where someone would defecate on
someone's body or on someone's face.

I've had some experiences.

I was rimming this really hot guy, and
all of a sudden a little came out, and I

knew it was going to come out, and I
actually, in my head, I wanted it.

Took it. You are now allowed to go, eww,
because most everyone does, including

myself. It was over in a flash, and I
was so hot, I shot without touching

myself, and so did he, and we both knew
what we were doing.

A drummer of a famous country band
wanted me to sit in his mouth.

Had a beautiful wife that just left him,
gorgeous, like... You know what? Wonder

why?

No, she was the one that got him into
it.

She started shitting in his mouth, and
he just, he wanted me to do it, and I'm

just squatting over him, and I'm going,
you know, and couldn't do it. He gave me

a nice tip for the effort, though.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

As far as fantasy's concerned, I mean, I
can really get into it in my head,

fantasy -wise, but the reality is I just
can't do it, and I don't really know

why. For days afterwards, I was...

appalled at myself.

That had always been the line that I
drew.

And when I crossed over that line,
probably just the mere fact of crossing

it was at one time exciting and
abhorrent. It's our culture, you know,

I think that scat play is a difficult
and one of the last frontiers

for many people.

It's not something that...

Many people erotify.

To a lot of people, that kind of play is
humiliation play.

The only thing I've ever had to do is
shit.

Is to shit into a diaper that I was
wearing.

And have to wear that around for several
hours or something.

But I've never done anything else with
shit.

Mostly, it's humiliating when the
thoughts come up. But the smell, I can't

it. I can't get past that kind of thing.

In toilet training, right, where all of
a sudden this poop that was...

perfectly fine and okay to do in your
diapers, you start to learn that your

is a bad thing and that it has to go
over there, right, in a certain place

not near you because it's the bad part
of you.

I don't think I'll do it again. Maybe.

Can you talk openly about the things you
really like?

Fetishes are coming more into mainstream
now, so it's not so taboo

anymore. I think a lot more people are
more open. with it now and can be

comfortable with their sexuality and how
kinky they want to be. I feel like we

really still are coming out of the dark
ages. One of the things that's changed,

especially in the last maybe 30 years,
is a kind of general interest in sex,

just for the sake of sex.

The tens of thousands of people who
enjoy the same fantasies. The bed should

a playground.

When you walk into your bedroom, you
should walk into a totally different

Sex is the greatest form of human
cement, and without it, relationships

fall apart.

Sexual satisfaction is such an important
part of our psyche, and in this society

with so much repression, it's considered
a negative by so many people, and yet

everybody is seeking that. Everybody
wants it. America is obsessed with sex.

There's always a border between what's
acceptable and unacceptable.

That border has shifted.

Anything that is underground, you know,
eventually is going to catch on and

become popular.

then the people who started it are just
going to start hating it and it's going

to turn into some really gross fashion
thing.

I think that's where it's headed now,
you know what I mean?

You go to bars and you go to clubs and
everybody's wearing leather, you know,

and that's not the way it used to be.

You know, basically all my leather is in
my closet because I just don't want to

be associated with the hordes of people
that...

Go to the store and buy a harness and
think that they're into leather. Every

person is different. I don't care what
you say.

Every person is different.

Probably the number one misconception is
that S &M people were abused as

children. And they're acting out the
abuse in some way. There have been some

very good studies on this. The study by
Janet Mail, for example, that showed

that members of the S &M community have
no higher frequency of child abuse

than...

people who aren't members of the S &M
community.

I think what you're getting at is it's
very important to get out there and have

a more comprehensive understanding about
variable sexual options.

I hope part of the feeling that comes
out of whether it be this interview with

me or just this film is that this is a
really cool way to have sex if you do it

right. Anything that people don't
understand, they consider a strain.

or weird or bizarre or foreign.

And it's just a matter of them not
understanding that. It doesn't make the

itself bad or wrong or strange or
bizarre.

It's just the natural things that we
enjoy doing, whether that's water sports

that's fisting or that's barebacking or
even S &M.

There's nothing wrong with that if you
have consenting adults doing what makes

them happy. Whatever you can accomplish
is a quote -unquote natural act because

you've been given the capacity to do it.

Sane, happy, competent people with good
relationships do kink and do SM, and

their lives are improved by it.

Way too many sex therapists have made
money and bought houses on the fact that

normal... doesn't come naturally.

For me, sexuality has always been about
my personal.

Growth and likes want me to understand
myself and to love myself as a person

to accept myself just as I am. The most
important thing I think any man can do,

no matter what gets their dick heart, is
to admit what gets their dick heart and

do it.

If you like putting on lingerie and that
gets your dick heart and you're

tormented by the social ramifications of
it, it's only you that's losing because

at the end it's your dick, it's your
orgasm, and it's your life. If you like

taking two fists up your ass while being
hung from a chain and being slapped

around by...

You know, a big guy, a big muscular guy
who spits in your face, do it. Because

life is only so long. And if you
suppress your sexuality, one day you're

to turn back.

Once you figure it out and find you're
at an age group or a bracket where it

will be very difficult to go back and
get that kind of gratification.

Once you've gone to the extreme, then
where do you go?

Where does it end?

It goes on. Ever expanding the more
experience you get, the more you want to

something different. It just keeps going
and keeps going. A lot of sick shit out

there.

And I want to be right in the middle of
it. I don't know if this film would be

long enough to be able to explore every
aspect of kinky sex because there's all

different kinds of it. Believe me, we've
only just begun.

We've only just begun.

Sex is way cool.

Enjoy it.

you