Original subtitles

SS officers giving the Nazi salute by the coffins of comrades

killed during the Sobibór uprising. (Sobibór Museum)

Had Mr Lerner killed before?

No.

No. I'd never killed anyone.

SOBIBÓR, OCTOBER 14, 1943, 4PM

For my friend Gilberte Steg,

in memory of her sister Hedy Nissim,

gassed at Sobibór in March 1943.

Using footage of an interview with Yehuda Lerner,

shot in 1979 during Shoah,

I created Sobibór, October 14, 1943, 4pm.

Sobibór occupies a crucial position in Shoah,

and the death camp uprising

is referenced early in the film by Jan Piwonski, from Poland,

who was assistant switchman at the train station at the time.

Piwonski witnessed the camp's construction

and the arrival of the first convoy for the gas chambers.

In Shoah, unlike for Treblinka, Chelmno, or Auschwitz-Birkenau,

no Jewish protagonists spoke about Sobibór,

even though I had lots of footage of Ada Lichtman and her husband,

who'd both escaped during the uprising,

and, above all, with Yehuda Lerner,

its emblematic hero, an astonishing figure,

and as we shall see, a man of tireless and indomitable courage.

The Sobibór uprising could not be a mere moment in Shoah.

It deserved its own film, individual treatment.

It is a paradigmatic example of what I've elsewhere referred to

as the reappropriation of power and violence by the Jews.

The Shoah was not only a massacre of innocents,

it was a massacre of defenceless people,

tricked at every stage of the process of destruction,

up to the very doors of the gas chambers.

A just correction is required for the two-part myth:

one claiming the Jews allowed themselves

to be led to the gas chambers without suspicion,

and that their death was "gentle",

and one claiming they offered no resistance to their executioners.

Without mentioning great uprisings like that of the Warsaw ghetto,

individual and collective acts of bravery

were frequent in the camps and ghettos:

insults, curses, suicide, desperate attacks.

However, it is true that an ancient tradition of exile and persecution

hadn't prepared the Jews, as a whole, for the efficient use of violence

which requires two inseparable preconditions:

psychological disposition

and familiarity with weapons.

It was a Soviet Jewish officer, Alexander Pechersky,

a career soldier well-accustomed to weaponry,

who conceived, planned and organised the uprising in barely six weeks.

Deported to Sobibór in early September 1943

with other Jews, also Red Army soldiers,

Pechersky was lucky enough not to be immediately sent to the gas chamber

with his comrades.

From the group of 1,200, the Germans selected around 60 men,

urgently needed for hard labour and maintenance work.

Their turn to die would come later,

like the cobblers, tailors, goldsmiths,

laundry women and also some children who, for months or weeks,

had been living in the part of the camp called Camp #1.

(Adjacent to Camp #2, the actual death camp with the gas chambers.)

They were slave labour for the Nazis

and were periodically eliminated.

Alexander Pechersky is no longer with us.

Other participants in the revolt still live, scattered around the globe.

Here, Yehuda Lerner speaks for himself and the others,

the living and the dead.

To make this film, I wanted to go where Yehuda Lerner had been,

so I returned to Poland, to Belarus, to Sobibór itself,

where I hadn't set foot for over 20 years.

The ravages of time are visible,

the station even more dilapidated.

There's only one train per day between Chelm and Wlodawa.

The ramp that over 250,000 Jews descended,

then a grassy slope,

has now been roughly cemented in order to load timber.

However, five years ago, the Polish government decided to build

a small and touching red-roofed museum in Sobibór.

Similarly, at Wlodawa, the synagogue,

its courtyard used to park trucks in 1978,

has also been turned into a museum,

surrounded by a lush park.

BUt museums and monuments

instil forgetfulness as well as remembrance.

Now we'll listen to Yehuda Lerner's living words.

WARSAW 2001

It all began on July 22, 1942

when we were forced out of the Warsaw ghetto.

We were assembled on Umschlagplatz

and we were told we were being sent somewhere.

We didn't know where.

Umschlagplatz is where the Jews were assembled

and where the Jews to be deported were herded into freight cars.

I'm with my parents and family, but we're quickly separated.

I'm sent one way, my family another. From then on, I'm alone.

Later I found out my mother, father, brother, and sister

were sent to Treblinka.

Along this path of suffering and death,

over 300,000 Jews were driven in 1942-1943

from the Warsaw ghetto

to the gas chambers of the Nazi extermination camps.

From Umschlagplatz, I was taken outside the ghetto.

We spent a few days there.

Each day we were given a slice of bread and something to drink.

It seems they needed a certain number of young men.

That's probably why we waited there a few days.

There were lots of us, a few thousand able-bodied young men.

I'd just turned 16.

After a few days, we were herded into train cars

to go to a work camp, or so they said.

For almost a week, we travelled in those train cars.

Each day, they passed some water through the door.

Before boarding, we'd each received a loaf of bread.

We arrived in Belarus.

They unloaded us so we could work.

The place where we'd arrived was near an airport.

I can't remember the name, but it was an airfield.

We built buildings there.

Conditions were harsh: very little food,

and the Germans there shot at the Jews for no reason.

The pilots, especially. At night, they'd get drunk

and amuse themselves by shooting Jews, usually in the head.

Their game was to arrive from behind, press the barrel to your temple

and try to blow your eyes out.

Death could come at any moment.

Dozens died from hidden snipers' bullets,

not to mention all those who starved to death.

In the camp, every day we buried dozens of people.

The conditions were truly terrible.

When I realised how bad things were,

I decided I had to get out of there.

I said to a friend, "Let's run away.

"Whatever happens, it's better than starving here."

We hid until evening.

After nightfall, we slipped through the barbed wire, tearing our clothes,

and set off across the fields.

We walked for two entire days without meeting a soul.

We ate whatever we could find in the fields.

We had civilian clothes,

but with an ID number on a red-and-white patch.

On the third day, we met some Russian peasants

and asked them for food.

We spoke to them in Polish. Polish and Russian are similar.

The word for "bread" is the same in Polish and Russian.

That third day the Russians fed us, then we continued on our way.

After a few days, the Germans recaptured us.

They put us in a truck and took us to another camp.

The Jews in this camp asked,

"Why didn't the Germans shoot you on the spot?"

It was simple - usually you were hanged or shot immediately.

I suppose I was lucky. We were lucky.

In each new camp, I'd see hundreds and thousands dying of hunger,

and each time, I'd think, "I'd rather be shot or hanged than starve like that."

I'd see people swell up or get very thin

and I'd think, "No, that's too awful a way to die."

Each time I escaped, they caught me and put me in another camp.

The conditions were always just as terrible.

I was in many camps. Eight camps in all.

He escaped from eight camps?

He was in eight camps in Russia and escaped from them all?

Yes.

In what time span?

Six months.

- From eight camps in six months? - Yes.

Why such determination to escape? Or was it simply easy?

A man who wants to live...

If a man wants to live, nothing is difficult for him.

When I saw the unliveable conditions,

I thought, "I have nothing to lose.

"I'd rather attempt anything than live this non-life."

Was it that easy to escape from these camps?

From the camps, it was very hard. I always escaped from work sites.

Were the camps in the same area?

They were about 30 to 40 kilometres apart.

So he was always recaptured?

What did he tell the Germans who caught him?

The truth.

Simply the truth.

I said I'd just escaped.

There was no other solution.

I didn't want to lie.

I simply told the truth, that I'd escaped.

There was no alternative. Only death awaited a Jew.

But I'd rather take a bullet than go back there.

Anyway, my clothes were in rags.

I couldn't lie. It was obvious. I had an ID number,

and I was just skin and bones.

You couldn't lie.

He was incredibly lucky not to be shot.

That's true. If you've got a lucky star, you'll live.

I must have been lucky.

If I'd been caught by the Germans

in charge of fugitives, or one of the camps,

they'd have simply hanged me like all the rest.

All captured fugitives were brought back and hanged.

But my luck always held.

I was always caught by Germans passing by chance,

and I'd wind up in another camp.

I always escaped with the same friend.

When the Germans caught us after our latest attempt,

after a few hours' drive, we ended up in the city of Minsk.

I realised we were in a city.

There was a ghetto in Minsk.

The Germans locked us in a room.

After a few hours, we were led before two men

from the Minsk Judenrat...

Judenrat: Jewish Council

...and a Jewish policeman from the ghetto.

The Germans handed us over to them

with orders to take us to the ghetto.

The Jews in the ghetto where shocked when they saw us

because we looked like walking corpses.

The Judenrat told us, "You'll never survive here

"because in the ghetto, you'll starve if you're unable to work.

"But near here is a camp for prisoners of war,

"Jews from the Red Army.

"If you can get into that camp,

"you might have a chance

"to gradually look human again

"and recover your strength to work."

We were in a terrible state.

Completely covered in lice.

We were welcomed...

...by a prisoner.

So, we were in a terrible state, completely covered in lice.

We were taken to the Russian Jews' POW camp.

A prisoner received us, asked who we were, where we were from.

We told him, and he said, "I'll take you under my protection."

We were undressed and given a bath.

We spent a few days in that camp, and then I came down with typhus.

Ill for some weeks, I stayed in an improvised camp infirmary.

The food we received was fairly edible.

It allowed me to recover.

The camp prisoners left each morning under German escort,

to work in the city of Minsk.

When I recovered from typhus, I felt a bit stronger

and asked to go to work too.

There were a lot of us in the camp - 1,200.

So when the Germans captured Red Army soldiers,

they separated Jewish soldiers from the others?

It seems to me...

...that was the case,

since it was only Jews.

I was told...

It seems that way, since there were only Jews in this camp.

Later I was told that when the Germans took prisoners,

they asked who was Jewish and took them to this camp.

To him, was there a difference between these Jewish POWs

and the Jews in the work camps or the Minsk ghetto?

What did they look like? Was there a difference?

There was a huge difference. First, the POWs were in better shape.

They were fed - not good food, but it kept them alive.

And the camp was clean and orderly.

They didn't wear their rank, but they were obviously soldiers.

They were men.

Another difference between this camp and the others

was the prisoners' contact with the local population.

They had opportunities to talk to and meet locals

so that after a day's work, they could bring back extra food.

They seemed healthy, unlike the unfortunates in other camps.

LAMA: THE HOLE

Here, the Jews of the Minsk ghetto were killed en masse.

Both in Russian and Yiddish, with variations:

"An eternally shining memory

"of the 5,000 Jews

"murdered by humanity's bloodiest enemies,

"the Fascist German executioners,

"on March 2, 1942."

We'd already been in Minsk for some months...

...when one night...

...in early September, 1943,

we were woken when the lights were suddenly switched on,

and our huts were...

Our huts were surrounded by Germans shouting,

"Come out! Get dressed and come out!"

German trucks waited at the gates.

We didn't know where we were being taken.

We arrived at the station. They put us in train cars.

As we were herded into the cars, we realised...

At dawn, we realised that Minsk ghetto Jews were being brought too.

We knew they were ghetto Jews by the star they wore.

But we prisoners of war were kept together, in several train cars.

We travelled for five or six days without knowing where

and arrived in Lublin, Poland.

We later learned that Lublin had a death camp, Majdanek.

MAJDANEK

LUBLIN IN THE BACKGROUND

We spent about half a day there, near the camp.

Apparently, there was no room for us,

so we set off again.

After another two or three hours, we arrived in Cheim.

A Pole who was working...

...at the station

for the Germans

came over to us.

In Polish, he told one of the Jews near the hatch,

"Run away! They're taking you to Sobibór."

He was there to...

Since my comrades didn't understand Polish, they called me over,

but the Pole was already walking away.

His job was to write numbers on the wagons.

He had just enough time to tell me, "Run away.

"They're taking you to Sobibór to burn you."

That's all I managed to understand.

I told my comrades the Pole had said Jews were brought there to be burned,

but no one believed it.

We didn't believe him.

Our train continued onward, and we could have escaped then.

How? To relieve ourselves,

we'd cut a hole in the flooring with a knife.

We could have escaped through it, but no one believed him.

We couldn't comprehend being brought there to be burnt.

We'd never heard of such a thing.

Night had already fallen when we reached a station,

but it was too dark to read the name on a sign.

At that point, the Germans surrounded the train

shouting that anyone who looked out would be immediately shot,

and that we'd spend the night there and be let out the next day.

Around 10pm, we heard a bugle call.

We thought it was probably quite a large camp

if they had a lights-out signal.

We spent the rest of the night unable to sleep

because everyone wondered where we were and what would happen to us.

In the morning, we could finally read the name of the place:

Sobibór.

We realised the Pole had told the truth,

but it was too late - we could no longer escape.

The train pulled into the camp, and the cars were separated.

When our car stopped,

they yelled at us to get out - ”Raus! Raus!”

There were Germans and Ukrainians in black uniforms.

All the POWs were in a group separate from the rest.

A German approached us and said, "I need 60 strong men."

i thought, "if it involves hard work,

"we'll probably be fed, so count me in."

He'd asked for 60 men, but only 50 stepped forward,

so he yelled, "if you refuse to work, you'll go right back to Moses!"

We didn't understand what he meant.

The German picked more men,

and when he had 60, he led us off to one side.

Just then, as the rest of the convoy was taken away,

the air started filling with shouts and screams

and the shrill cries of geese. Yes, geese.

It lasted about an hour, and then suddenly, silence.

We found out later that the Germans had a flock of several hundred geese.

And when Jews were taken away and started screaming,

the Germans probably panicked the geese so they would honk,

and the cries of the geese would drown out the human screams.

That's definitely right. Some Poles told me that in Sobibór and Treblinka

the Jews screamed like geese when they were gassed.

It was even more true...

It was even more true because there were real geese.

Flocks raised specifically to drown out the human screams.

Since they brought in several thousand people at once,

the Germans wanted to avoid...

Each convoy had thousands of people,

so the Germans wanted to make sure the people at the end of the convoy

wouldn't hear the screams of those at its head.

So he heard the geese and then silence, is that it?

When silence fell, a kapo...

...a Jew - came over...

...and told us...

...to form a line.

When silence fell, a kapo - a Jew - came over

and told us to form a line.

He took us to a place inside the camp

where there were some huts.

The 60 of us ended up in one.

It was afternoon. People were walking around the camp.

Once inside the barracks...

...we were given new clothes.

Real clothes.

Once inside the barracks, we were given new clothes

and blankets, such as we hadn't seen in years.

We later learned the clothes and blankets had been taken

from people in our convoy

and previous convoys.

Once we were clean and dressed, they took us to the kitchen.

They fed us excellent food, as much as we wanted.

After we came out, we started talking to the Jews.

PATH TO EXTERMINATION

After we came out, we started talking to the Jews strolling around.

We spoke in Yiddish and Polish.

They explained to us that here, in Sobibór, the Jews were burned.

First, they were gassed, and then they were burned.

That's when we realised that no one left Sobibór alive.

They told us that no one could escape from here.

All night long, we talked...

...about what to do.

The next morning...

We talked all night about our fate and about what we could do.

The next morning, we were told to go out to work.

Our job was to fell trees

and build underground munitions stores.

We decided that in this place we had no time to waste.

Since all these men were POWs, as soldiers, they knew what to do.

They formed a committee to get in touch with the Jews

who already knew a bit about Sobibór.

The head of the committee was a Jewish Red Army officer

named Sasha Pechersky.

Through the Sobibór Jews,

he obtained information:

Two previous uprisings had failed.

The first time, a group of 50 had been burned,

and the second time, the Jews had tried to dig a tunnel and failed.

We realised that, if we wanted to succeed,

we had to keep our plans secret with very few people informed,

and our only chance was to kill the Germans.

In the camp there were...

...cobblers...

All trades were represented in the camp -

cobblers working for the Germans, others for the Ukrainians,

tailors working for Germans and Ukrainians,

even goldsmiths.

For example, a German going away on leave

could have a gold ring or other jewellery made.

All these Jewish craftsmen worked for the Germans.

We selected a site

where we decided to build a new hut.

The idea was to claim there were many carpenters in the camp

and a new hut was needed for this particular trade, carpentry.

We received permission to build the new hut.

We also thought about which tools could be used to kill the Germans,

and, as carpenters, we would be allowed axes.

We were aware of the incredible punctuality of the Germans.

Our plan was to summon, every few minutes,

the officers to different workshops -

to the tailors' and the cobblers'.

That was the plan - to get them inside the workshops.

For each workshop, two men had been selected by the committee.

Their task was to contact the Jewish craftsman in charge of each workshop.

For instance, me and my comrade,

for we always went in pairs,

had to go to the tailors' workshop.

The tailor had to summon a German at 4pm,

and we had to wait for that German.

How could the tailor be sure he'd come at 4pm?

What reason did he give to summon him?

We had to summon, for example...

The tailor was to summon...

For instance, in the tailors' workshop,

our task was to kill a German called Greischutz,

who was in charge of

the Ukrainians in the camp.

He was having a leather coat made, with a fur lining,

so his coat fitting was for 4pm.

The uprising for the whole camp was set for October 14,

at precisely 4pm.

All the Germans were to be summoned to different workshops at that time.

Was there a precise reason for organising the uprising on that date?

Yes.

There were children who worked - in the canteen?

Some of the children also went to the Germans' homes

to clean their shoes.

These children had overheard a rumour

that the camp would soon be completely destroyed.

We decided, after hearing this information that we needed to act quickly

because if we waited, we risked extermination with the rest of the camp.

So very little time elapsed

between their arrival at Sobibór in early September

and the uprising on October 14.

They acted very quickly.

Yes, since I'd arrived,

six weeks in total had passed.

In the tailors' workshop,

my friend and I were ready with our well-honed axes.

Our task was to kill one German summoned at 4pm

and a second German summoned at 4:05pm.

How many men were to take part?

- Jews, you mean? - Yes, of course.

More than 20.

Scattered in all the places where we could summon Germans.

How did you choose those who took part?

The committee in charge of the camp uprising

had selected those who would take part in the mission,

but I don't know what their criteria were.

Personally, I felt it was an honour to be entrusted with killing a German.

I was fairly young, still a kid, but already well-built.

I truly felt it was an honour to be chosen to kill a German.

The plan was to kill all the Germans in the camp?

Yes.

Yes, the plan was to kill the 16 Germans in the camp.

There were actually 30 Germans,

but since they could go out on leave,

they split into two groups and, in general,

at the time we'd chosen to revolt there were 16 Germans in the camp.

But there were a few hundred Ukrainians that guarded the entire camp.

The camp was also encircled with an electrified fence,

and the fields around it were mined.

At 4pm, when the uprising began,

a comrade, an electrician,

was in charge of cutting the power of the camp.

This Jewish electrician always worked for the Germans as an electrician,

and his role that clay was to cut the power.

He also cut the phone lines.

Had Mr Lerner ever killed before?

No.

No, I'd never harmed a fly.

Me? It was the first time.

It was a simple fact.

If we didn't act, we'd be killed like all the Jews before us.

So it was this reality that forced us to act like this.

For me, it was a great honour to be chosen to kill the Germans.

Did the idea of killing scare him?

Of course the idea of killing scared me,

but sometimes reality forces a man

to act in ways he wouldn't have chosen.

In this camp, we also knew we had no choice.

We knew we'd be killed,

but we didn't want to be killed like sheep.

We wanted to die like men.

Better to be killed than led to the gas chambers.

It was reality that forced us to act.

It's 4pm on October 14, 1943,

or perhaps 3:30pm.

He's in the tailors' workshop, waiting.

We took our positions in the tailors' workshop

one hour before the time set for the uprising.

We'd arranged it with the tailor in charge of the workshop.

We would be there as if we were tailors too,

but seize a moment, a mere instant,

to get behind the German in order to deal the deathblow.

You say "we". There were two of you?

Yes, a comrade and myself, both waiting for the Germans.

We had agreed that when the tailor

got the German to try on the coat,

on the coat front, he'd mark

the position for the buttons,

and at one point, he'd kneel,

and that was our signal to rush at the German to kill him.

Did they decide who would strike first?

Since my comrade was a soldier,

we'd planned for him to be sitting closest

and the tailor would make sure, as he moved,

to let my comrade step forward and strike the first blow.

So it was the Soviet Jewish PC)W who was to strike first?

What were their weapons?

Axes.

Our axes that we'd already sharpened in the carpentry workshop.

We'd claimed to be carpenters so we worked in the carpentry shop.

What were the axes like?

What does he mean? They were normal axes, not especially big.

Actually, they were rather small.

But we'd sharpened them so much that they were like razor blades.

At 4pm, when the German was supposed to enter our workshop,

or to be precise, at 3:55pm, through the door,

we saw the horse of another German being led away from another shop,

so we knew the German in that shop had already been killed.

My comrade and I were already sitting in the tailors' workshop, working.

I had a coat over my lap,

and I was pretending to stitch buttons to it.

The axes were hidden under the coat, between our knees.

At 4pm, the German we were expecting, Greischutz,

entered for his fitting.

At 4pm sharp?

Just like clockwork.

In fact, our whole plan was based on that.

We knew the Germans were very punctual.

We only succeeded because Germans are so punctual.

If they hadn't been on time that day, we would have failed.

Greischutz entered the workshop,

removed the belt holding his gun

and put the gun on the table.

He moved forward in such a way that he was right next to me.

We'd planned for my friend to be closest, for he was a soldier,

and I'd never killed anyone.

Yet I ended up with the German right next to me.

What was Greischutz like?

Greischutz was...

I can't really say. He was about 6'2".

He was very tall with broad shoulders.

A huge man, tall! Of great size and stature.

I'd seen him before, but being right next to him,

to tell the truth, I was petrified.

Being so near such a monster, you're filled with terror.

Did Greischutz suspect anything?

No.

He'd never even dream...

No, Greischutz would never even dream of such a thing.

The Germans in the camp felt so secure,

so confident after killing hundreds of thousands of Jews

that they couldn't imagine such a thing.

In this camp...

In this camp, for the Germans, things ran like clockwork,

smoothly regulated.

They would yell, run,

and sow terror inside the camp,

and we were the poor wretches.

They made us wretches.

The Germans couldn't even imagine we might change.

Hundreds of thousands of people had passed through this camp.

So Greischutz is in front of him instead of his comrade.

Yes, he was three or four feet away.

It had been agreed...

He was about three or four feet from me,

and we'd arranged for when the tailor tried the coat on him,

marked the spots for the buttons and bent down,

my friend would step forward,

but since I was now the closest, I stood up.

The coat covered my hands and the axe.

I stood up,

I dropped the coat,

gripped the axe

and took a tiny step towards him.

It all took 1/1000th of a second.

It was even...

so rapid that I can't even say...

It was over in a quarter of a millionth of a second.

I gripped the axe,

and he gave a loud cry, and he fell.

I raised the axe and slammed it down on his head.

In one blow, the whole axe went into his head.

He struck him in the skull?

The axe went right into the middle of his skull.

I split his skull in two.

I don't even know how. It was like I'd been doing it all my life.

Like a specialist, I hit exactly the right spot. I succeeded.

It split his skull?

Completely! And he fell.

My comrade came over.

It lasted a fraction of a second.

I hit him, he slumped down and fell.

My comrade came over. He struck him again.

Then the people in the workshop helped us move the body

because we knew a second German would arrive immediately after.

How many were they?

There were other tailors and other cobblers.

Ada's husband worked in that workshop.

- Ada's husband... - Yes, I know.

Everyone in the workshop hurried to hide Greischutz's corpse.

In a tailor's workshop, there's a table where they iron the finished clothes.

The table here had a pile of coats under it, ready for the Germans.

We dragged the body to the table and hid it under the pile of coats.

Was there any blood?

A lot of blood.

The people working there immediately cleaned up the blood

and spread blankets over the floor.

It only took us a few seconds to wash, remove our coats

and sit down as if nothing had happened.

When was the second German due?

At 4:05pm.

At 4:05pm!

All that only took half a minute.

Incredible.

Yes, it seems impossible,

but everything depended on German punctuality and our own rapidity.

The Germans were punctual and our plan worked like clockwork.

Who was to kill the second German?

Both of us, at the same spot.

We were waiting for the second German.

At precisely 4:05pm...

...the second German comes in.

At precisely 4:05pm, the second German comes in.

He looks around and declares the place is very dirty,

that we should whitewash the walls

and clean the place up.

He moves forward and looks around.

We'd hidden Greischutz under the pile of coats,

but his arm was sticking out.

We hadn't noticed, but his hand was sticking out.

As he moved forward,

he stepped on Greischutz's hand.

It might have been covered,

but when you step on a hand, you know it's not a coat.

So the German started shouting, ”Was ist das? Was ist das?”

"What is it?"

Immediately, my comrade leapt forward and struck him.

The German collapsed from the blow,

and I quickly gave him a second blow.

I think I'll always remember -

the axe struck his teeth and made a sort of spark.

You never forget something like that.

How did he feel afterwards?

To be honest, above all we felt joy at having our plan succeed.

Immediately after, we washed and changed our clothes,

and we learned that 11 Germans had already been killed.

Children went from hut to hut to keep us informed.

We also had a kapo on our side.

He said, "Everything is going according to plan."

Am I mistaken, or has he gone pale?

Of course I'm pale.

When you recall things like that...

The joy of succeeding...

When you recall things like that,

you can't help but feel something bubbling up inside.

It's a feeling of joy at having succeeded,

but you have tears in your eyes because so many died there.

It's the satisfaction of succeeding in avenging those who died

and the feeling of having done the right thing.

At 5pm, we'd already finished and gathered together,

ready to put the rest of the plan into action.

An experience like this happens once in a lifetime.

It's the experience of life and death.

Has he ever killed again?

No.

Yes, I've killed as a soldier when fighting as a partisan,

but that was different,

fighting other armed fighters.

Whereas in the camp

we weren't even human, not even subhuman!

We no longer knew what we were.

It was an indescribable feeling.

Later, it was soldiers against soldiers, weapon to weapon.

It was another type of war.

Whereas there...

It was extermination, not war.

There, they turned people into wild beasts - less than wild beasts.

We weren't human, not even a number. We were less than nothing.

At such a moment, to succeed in killing a German

who has exterminated hundreds of thousands of people...

Of course your heart is filled with joy.

At that time, I already knew what German power represented.

I already knew how far their cruelty could go -

a cruelty that boggles the human mind.

I already knew what wild beasts they were.

So, it's 5pm...

At the camp, they did roll call every day at 5pm.

At roll call, all the prisoners gathered

and lined up.

At that point, a German named Frenzel,

who's actually in prison in Germany today...

Frenzel would call our names, and then we could disperse.

At 5pm...

...we were already ready for roll call.

At 5pm, we were already waiting for roll call.

Some of our comrades had weapons,

pistols taken from the Germans we'd killed.

At 5pm, we were waiting for Frenzel,

but he doesn't come!

In the history of the camp, Frenzel was always there at 5pm to call roll.

He must have sensed something was going on,

because he had no phone, no electricity, nothing.

In any case, at 5pm, Frenzel doesn't show.

No time to lose.

We realised we had no time to waste,

so our Russian-speaking comrades shouted

so the Ukrainians around the camp, guarding it, could hear,

"Hooray! We've succeeded in killing the Germans! Let's escape!"

Everyone runs.

Everyone runs toward the fence.

At this point, the camp is in pandemonium.

Everyone runs to the fence, and the Ukrainians open fire.

Some people get through the fence,

and explosions are heard all over the camp.

The fence was no longer electrified, but there was still the minefield.

Explosions everywhere.

We managed to reach the camp's weapons depot,

and, with those weapons, we went through the fence.

The surrounding forest was only 500 yards away.

The entire camp was surrounded by forest.

We could hear Frenzel's voice in the camp,

giving orders to pursue us and shoot us.

Everyone runs through the fence.

I'm already on the other side.

It starts to rain. Not hard, just drops.

In Poland, in October, it's already dark at 5pm.

I ran into the forest, and, at that point,

perhaps due to emotion after all I'd experienced,

to exhaustion and darkness,

my legs could no longer carry me, and I collapsed.

I dropped and fell asleep.

We'll stop here.

It's so beautiful when he collapses in the forest.

The rest is an adventure of freedom.

The extermination devices and gas chambers

were demolished by the Germans

immediately after the uprising.

No more convoys arrived at Sobibór station.

There, at least, the extermination had been stopped.

People transported to the Sobibór death camp

from the General Government of Poland,

meaning the part of Poland not annexed to the Third Reich:

April 2, 1942 from Rejowiec: 2,400.

April from Zamosc': 300.

April from Krychów: 250.

May 3 from Komarów: 2,000.

May 5 from Opole Lubelskie: 2,000.

May 6 from Deblin-Irena: 2,500.

May 7 from Ryki: 2,500.

May 7 from Jozefów: 1,270.

May 8 from Baranów: 1,500.

May 8 from Konskowola: 1,580.

May 9 from Markuszów: 1,500.

May 9 from Leczna: 200.

May 10 from Michów: 2,500.

May 12 from Opole: 2,000.

May 12 from Turobin: 2,000.

May from Pulawy: 2,500.

May 12-15 from Zólkiewka: 1,000.

May 13-14 from Gorzków: 2,000.

May 14-15 from Krasnystaw: 3,400.

May 15 from Izbica: 400.

May 15-16 from Zamosc' again: 5000.

May 18 from Siedliszcze: 630.

May 21-23 from Cheim: 2,300.

May 23 from Wlodawa: 1,200.

May 25-30 from Cheim again: 1,500.

May from Lysobyki: 500.

May from Wawolnica: 500.

May from Krasniczyn: figure not provided.

May from Rudnik: figure unknown.

May from Wysokie: 1,000.

May from Cyców: unknown.

May from Krasnystaw: unknown.

May from Staw: 800.

June 1-2 from Hrubieszów: 3,049.

June 2 from Belzec: 1,000.

Belzec must have been their overflow.

June 2 from Dubienka: 2,670.

June 6 from Krasniczyn: 800.

June 7-9 from Hrubieszów: 500.

June 8 from Grabówiec: 1,200.

June 10 from Uchanie: 1,650.

June 10 from Biala Podlaska: 3,000.

June 13, again from Biala Podlaska: 6,000.

June from Cyców: 500.

June from Slawatycze: 1,000.

June from Dubeczno: figure unknown.

Still in 1942, June from Olchowiec: figure unknown.

From Pawlów: unknown.

From Sawin: unknown.

From Krzywowierzba: unknown.

From Krasniczyn: unknown.

June 29 from Majdanek: 5,000.

July 24 from Wlodawa: 100.

July from Cheim: 300.

August 10 from Rejowiec: 2,000.

August 10 from Zólkiewka: 1,000.

September 6 from Ustrzyki: figure unknown.

September 8 from Ryczywól: 69.

October 1-5 from Puchaczów: 150.

October 8 from Izbica: 1,500.

October 10 from Rejowiec: 2,400.

October 11 from Lubartów: 3,000.

October from Wojslawice: 1,200.

October 22 from Siedliszcze: 500.

October 22-30 from Piaski-Izbica: 5,000.

October 23 from Legczna: 3,000.

October 24 from Wlodawa: 5,000.

October 27-28, again from Cheim: 3,000.

October 28 from Hrubieszów: 2,000.

October 30 from Wlodawa: 500.

October from Belzyce-Bychawa: 7,000.

November 2 from Cheim: 10,000, surely the main liquidation.

November 2 from Izbica: 1,750.

November 6 from Cheim: figure unknown

November 6 from Staw: 800.

December from Dubeczno: 650.

1943, January from Izbica: 750.

January from Cheim: unknown.

February from Cheim: 300.

February from Zamosc': 500.

April 4 from Izbica: 300.

April 28 from Izbica: 200.

April 29 from Leczna: 200.

April 30 from Wlodawa: 2,000.

May 1-7 from Wlodawa: 150.

May 22 from Lwów: unknown.

June 26 from Belzec: 306.

July 4 from Lwów: unknown.

August 8 from Debica: 2,000.

August 1943 from Bialystok: unknown.

August-September from Zamosc: 800.

September 10 from Dorohucza: unknown.

September 20 from Bialystok: unknown.

September 25 from Trawniki: unknown.

October 20 from Treblinka: over 100.

People transported to the Sobibór death camp

from foreign countries:

1942, from April to June

From Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia: 6,000.

From April to June from Germany and Austria: 10,000.

From April to October from Slovakia: 24,378.

1943, March 5-6 from Westerbork, Holland: 1,105.

March 6 from France: 71.

March 11 from France: 200.

March 13 from Holland: 1,105.

March 18 from France: unknown.

March 20 from Holland: 964.

March 26 from Holland: 1,250.

March 31 from Germany: unknown.

April 2 from Holland: 1,255.

April 9 from Holland: 2,020.

April 16 from Holland: 1,204.

April 21 from Berlin, Germany: 938.

April 23 from Holland: 1,166.

April 25 from France: 2,000.

April 30 from Holland: 1,204.

May 7 from Holland: 1,187.

May 14 from Holland: 1,446.

May 21 from Holland: 2,511.

May 28 from Holland: 2,862.

June 4 from Holland: 3,006.

June 8 from Holland: 1,266.

June 11 from Holland: 3,017.

July 2 from Holland: 2,397.

July 9 from Holland: 2,417.

July 16 from Holland: 1,988.

July 23 from Holland: 2,209.

September 18-19 Soviet Socialistic Republic

From Lida: 2,700.

September from Vilnius: unknown.

September from Smolensk: unknown.

September from Mogilev: unknown.

September from Babruysk: unknown.

September 18-23 from Minsk: 6,000.

This was surely Lerner's convoy.

September 23-24 from Vilnius: 5,000.

September from Stryj: unknown.

In total, over 250,000 victims.