Original subtitles

OK. Ready to go again?

Mm-hmm.

And action.

Over the years, we have milked venom from all of the world's

most dangerous snakes.

And if you've been following along

with these crazy escapades, then you

know that we have strategically skipped over one of the most

terrifying species, the mamba.

We are back in DeLand, Florida, at the Reptile Discovery Center.

And as always, we'll be working with America's favorite snake

expert.

Look at Carl back there getting warmed up for a morning

filled with fresh snake milk.

In the world of venomous reptiles,

there is nothing more terrifying than an angry mamba.

They are fast, strong, intelligent, calculated,

and armed with a highly neurotoxic venom

that, if it enters your bloodstream,

is a guaranteed death sentence.

Now here's something crazy.

Carl has been bitten not once, but three times by these snakes,

which makes today's venom-milking episode

the most dangerous one that we've ever produced.

Hey. - Hey, Coyote.

How are you doing, man? - I'm good, Carl.

How are you? - Welcome.

Welcome.

Good to see you, guys.

Thank you.

We are back and we are here to milk mambas.

Let's talk mambas for a second because, generally, people

know there's the black mamba.

Yeah.

They know there's the green mamba.

But in total, how many mamba species are there?

Yeah.

So, we really just say four species.

Three species of greens and then,

of course, the infamous black mamba.

They are all African snakes.

They're kind of distributed in different places

through sub-Saharan Africa.

Although interesting, the black mamba has the largest range

of the four different snakes.

And the black mamba, as everybody out there watching

knows, is so revered throughout its range.

I mean, it's the snake that truly terrifies people.

I would say of any snake on the planet,

we hear that people are more afraid of black mambas

when we're traveling mostly than any other snake.

What makes a mamba so dangerous?

Yeah.

You're going to see a little bit of it today.

Black mambas, of course, get big, you know, almost 12 feet.

That's an enormous, venomous snake to begin with.

They are terrifically toxic.

Years ago, they would say before the advent of antivenom,

the black mamba was 100% fatal in a bite.

That's probably not entirely true.

But no doubt, he's a hyper toxic,

very large, very active elapid.

So, even though mambas are, in fact, shy, nervous,

retiring snakes, when people are forced to interact with one

or inadvertently step on one or have cornered one,

they become a formidable adversary

and a really challenging snake.

OK.

Now, the word that you said in there was nervous.

And I can completely identify with the nervous nature

of a mamba having worked with one in the wild.

We did work with a black mamba in the wild in South Africa.

That's magnificent.

And they keep you on edge, for sure.

And it's that nervousness that's very

calculated at the same time.

So in your opinion, when we're talking one being more dangerous

than the other, green versus black,

which one ranks as a more dangerous snake?

Well, as a more dangerous snake to handle,

certainly the black mamba.

OK.

And then more dangerous, in general, again, the black mamba.

He's capable of a large venom yield,

a terrifically toxic venom.

They're a challenge to handle.

As you say, somewhat calculated and deliberate and terribly

unforgiving of a mistake.

So we were doing lots of mamba venom

in the late '90s and early 2000s.

I have been bitten by three of the four species of mambas.

That's very embarrassing.

OK.

So, let's talk about being bitten by the green mamba

for a second first.

So, the green mamba was actually my second mamba bite.

And because of the work we do with snake venom,

I have become hypersensitive, allergic to snake venom.

Like you would be to bee venom, it makes

my work a little trickier.

We have a terrific, what we call, anaphylactic event.

We tend to treat that on the way to the hospital,

meet the emergency services people.

They get an airway for me, get me going,

and then into the hospital for antivenom.

But by the time I was in the hospital bed,

so now we're talking 20, 30 minutes post bite,

I was getting sick.

I was having blurred vision.

I was salivating.

I couldn't get a kind of a swallowing thing happening.

And so we were already starting to experience some neurotoxicity

and this kind of thing.

The tissue involvement and the blood

formations happen later over the course of the next two days.

So, do you have mamba antivenom here on site

if the worst-case scenario were to happen

and heaven forbid you were to be bitten?

Absolutely.

So we've got a number of different mamba antivenoms

on site.

Now, my heart is going faster than normal.

We're in a tight, enclosed room.

There's lots of venomous snakes.

You're telling me this story about having been

bitten by the snake species.

I know the demeanor of these creatures.

Do you at all get nervous in working

with any of these, especially something

like the mamba coming out today?

No.

Any sense of like heightened anxiety?

No, but I get hyperfocused.

OK.

You know, the whole thing that allows us to do our job

is we don't fear the snakes.

We understand them.

But we certainly understand what's in play and the gravity

of a snake bite.

It's not something we take lightly.

We haven't had a snake bite in 16 years.

We've been safe for a very long time.

We're going to continue that safety record today.

Moving coming towards you, Mara.

Whoa.

Wow!

It's beautiful.

Ooh.

They really are spectacular, aren't they?

Pressure.

Don't change anything.

Good.

Whoa!

Tell me when everybody's good.

I'm good. Mara, are you good?

Yeah.

So this is the milking moment right here.

And smaller fangs, obviously, so you

don't worry about them necessarily catching a finger,

right?

So as elapids go, mambas have pretty long fangs,

especially blacks.

And remember, greens are often arboreal.

They're almost strictly arboreal.

And so these guys are often feeding on little birds

and that kind of thing.

And so those longer fangs help them.

But we're going to bring them through.

There he goes.

You saw that first little shot.

Yeah.

Again, another.

And another.

Give him one second.

We'll see if he'll bite one more time for us.

That was crazy how it shot out of the fangs more

than just a drip.

It was like, poof!

Yeah, you see this beautiful choot, choot, choot.

You know, again, they'll give you three or four shots.

And let's see if she'll go one more time here.

And that's about it.

Yeah, I saw a little bit on the back side there.

So that's a good yield for that snake.

We typically plan on about 50 milligrams for a green.

My guess is that's actually quite a bit more than that.

And, as I said, that beautiful, slender arboreal snake.

And as elapid go, these guys are really great snakes.

I mean, that's really a beautiful, spectacular animal.

It really is.

We'll go back in.

Everybody's good? Yeah.

OK. It's open.

Thank you.

OK.

The way the venom shot out

was much different than we've seen from some other elapids.

I mean, once that venom goes in, guaranteed death sentence

without antivenom.

That went pretty smoothly, I'd say, right?

Good, right?

Yeah.

OK, let's get this venom secure.

We're going to come back to that.

At the end of the episode, we're going to tell you guys

how many humans Carl estimates that yield

would be able to kill.

But first, we got to talk black mambas.

Yeah, Coyote.

So, the black mamba becomes kind of a formidable

snake as soon as you decide that you're

going to interact with them.

Yeah, this snake, like as soon as we had the flashlight on,

it knew.

OK, I've been spotted.

And as soon as we start moving stuff, it was like,

get me out of here.

It wanted to get away.

Yeah, right.

Well, there you go.

So, and that they're always looking for an out

and they're thinking, I got to get out of here.

Rightly so, right?

They're dealing with this.

So, the thing with black mambas is

they're somewhat unpredictable, particularly

when they're restrained.

And so we never entirely know how that's

going to go in terms of how much trouble

we're going to have actually just getting a hold of him

safely.

And when I say "safely," that's both for us and for him.

Yup.

We're really concerned about making sure

our animals are not hurt in the process

and that they're handled properly and gently,

but within reason because we really are paying attention

to what's happening here.

And as you said, the idea of working an eight-foot

elapid in this area, that's unhappy.

It's intense.

We did king cobra here a couple years ago

and that got intense real quickly.

Don't worry about the camera.

But this is compounded.

Because not only is it a calculated, highly toxic snake,

but this is another species that you were bitten by,

and you are very much allergic to the black mamba venom

as well.

Right.

So black mamba bite was the first mamba

bite I had, a big nine-foot male way back in 1997.

How did that happen?

We had actually collected the snake's venom

and I was returning the snake to the cage.

And we were somewhat new to black mamba.

So we had only been handling them

for about a year at that point.

And I was still gaining my understanding

there of those guys.

And as I was going back into his cage,

I had his coils kind of grouped in this hand.

And I got his head too close.

I went and he stuck onto that finger.

And they're strong.

So he was able to just use the momentum

and the power of his body.

Exactly.

And I didn't foresee it, you know.

He saw that thing.

We always used to say years ago when we were

doing a lot of mambas, mambas are terribly

unforgiving of a mistake.

Yes.

They're really aware of their distances.

They're really aware of where you are.

And so, the big thing there is, right,

you're never close enough, you're never in striking range.

And, of course, I thought I was controlling the snake's head,

but I wasn't adequately controlling his head

and so back into this.

So that was it.

And we got some pretty good venom on that bite and things

began to happen very rapidly.

At that point, I was not allergic to mamba venom.

So it was a straight black mamba bite

and we were really able to document some amazing symptoms.

But black mambas, again, heavily neurotoxic.

Things began happening really rapidly.

I was vomiting, blurred vision, convulsions.

I was having a bronchospasm.

So we had some really serious symptoms.

One of the good things about black mamba venom

is it neutralizes well.

So once you're getting antivenom,

I can remember when they started the antivenom, wide open I could

almost feel this sensation of, OK, now we're moving in a better

direction than we were.

So after two days in intensive care,

things got good very rapidly.

And there's almost no local issues with mamba venoms,

or at least black mamba venoms.

So we don't see any tissue involvement

or big hemolytic factors or hemorrhaging, none of that stuff

like you would be in a rattlesnake or a viper bite.

So blacks are kind of purely neurotoxic,

both post and presynaptic.

But that thing can really get going fast.

OK.

So, care is of the utmost importance today.

And a couple of years ago, when we milked the king cobra,

you had this amazing grab of the snake

after it was just so rambunctious.

And I said, "Whoa!

Look at the speed!

Carl is faster than the cobra."

We know at one point Carl was not faster than the mamba.

So hopefully today I can say Carl is faster than the mamba.

Carl is getting slower.

Yeah.

So, let's get out the black mamba.

Mara's going to pop back in and help you wrangle the snake.

We'll get into position.

This is as intense as it's going to get

today, guys, when it comes from a danger level situation.

The black mamba coming out, we've

got to be extremely careful.

So, Carl, we're under your command.

You let us know where we need to be and let's

make sure everybody's safe.

OK, great.

Is everybody good?

Everyone's rolling. You are ready to go.

All good?

I'm hoping he's going to be in a good mood today.

So we'll see.

Oh, my gosh.

That's a big snake.

He's a monster.

Woo!

Whoa.

Nice. Hold on just a sec.

OK.

Good.

All right, get him there.

Do you have him? I do.

OK.

Hold on one second.

OK.

- Can we move now, Carl? - Yup.

All set.

Everybody's set.

You can be wherever you want to be.

OK.

Put that over there.

See, this is what I experienced.

They coil up and they are so strong.

That's the one thing that I did not

anticipate with the black mamba, is

its ability to coil around you.

And when I was presenting the snake on camera,

the only thing I was thinking is that if I lost control

of the snake and, remember, we had it in a tube,

so I felt much more in control than you are now.

If you lost control, that snake would be latched to you.

100%.

And, as you said, if he's wrapped

up around you, getting rid of him presents a very real issue.

So, it's one of the reasons we stopped going back into the cage

and we started just going into a transfer camp.

OK.

So you can see he's ready to bite.

He never fully understands this restraint thing.

Is everybody good for him to bite?

Yeah. - Everybody good.

Everybody's good?

Yeah, yeah.

There he goes again, wicked shot right there.

Wow. So fast.

Wicked shot. Good.

Another shot. Look at that.

Just the bite and release.

And it can control how much venom it's giving, correct?

Totally metering what it's giving me, absolutely.

And we think that process is largely cognitive.

And he's deciding, I'm going to give you this,

I'm going to give you this.

And mambas, again, especially blacks

and westies, really famous for these shots at a time.

A little bit, a little bit.

We'll get them again in one second.

Wow.

Mara, are you good?

It is the intensity that the venom shoots up

that you can understand how quickly

then that gets into your body.

It's a millisecond, right?

It's a millisecond.

With blacks, I can remember on my bite moving to the sink

to wash my hands.

You always take a minute to decide

if the bite is actually hot.

And all of a sudden, my lips start going numb.

My face is tingling.

I was maybe 20 seconds into that snake bite

and I remember thinking, here we go.

And hot means you've got venom in your body, correct?

We've definitely got a hot bite, right.

So one more shot.

Perfect.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, that was even a decent amount of venom right there.

Yeah, so that's really a good yield.

We're probably looking at 150 migs

there, which is about what we like for an adult black,

about there.

And he really did a good job today.

All right.

I'm going to just back up out of the way a tiny bit there.

Perfect.

So, Mara, you're going to go back to your grab stick.

I'll be right here.

Yeah, good.

And then will you do me a favor? - Yeah.

See that garbage can right next to you, Coyote?

This one?

Take all that stuff off it, yup.

And you're just going to put it down there by Mara.

Mm-hmm.

Awesome.

Great.

Lid off the top?

Yep.

Yes, please. - Perfect.

OK.

So I'm pressuring now.

Yup.

And you've got him? - I've got him.

Good.

Now hold on one second. Good.

I'm going to let him go.

I've got him. Thanks, Mara.

OK. I'm letting go.

Yup.

Grab that.

That's a lot of snake.

Hold on.

Wait, hold on.

Ooh!

Thanks, Coyote.

Mm-hmm.

And that's where I say Carl is faster than the mamba.

Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo!

That was intense!

The snakes are back in their enclosures.

So we feel a little bit safer at this point.

But we've still got two very toxic cocktails in front of us,

the green mamba venom, the black mamba venom.

And Carl, this is the part of the episode where we add up

the number of what I like to call tombstones in regard

to snake venom yield.

Talk to us about these yields.

And then we would love to hear your estimate as

to how many humans this yield plus this yield

would be capable of killing.

So let's talk about this one and then that one,

and then we'll add them up.

OK, Coyote.

So, when people talk about dangerous snakes,

there are really two parts to that, maybe

three parts to that equation.

One part of that equation is venom toxicity.

So we know that mambas really rank up in the upper toxicities

of snake venoms, right?

So as elapids, cobras, and mambas, and all these snakes go,

coral snakes, mambas are right up there.

The next part of the danger equation is venom yield.

And this has to do with how much venom does the snake put

out in an average snake bite.

And so we're going to talk about mamba

venoms here, the East African green and the black.

The East African green yield is about 50 milligrams

of venom on an average yield.

Now, remember, we had that snake bite multiple times.

And it's got a pretty low viscosity.

This does.

So some mamba venoms tend to be pretty light, pretty

almost watery, whereas lots of our cobra venoms,

this kind of thing, tend to be really viscous.

King cobra venom is almost like maple syrup.

All of that plays a role in how the venom spreads in the body.

But so in the green mamba yield, now remember,

he bit two or three times on this thing.

We wind up with about 50 milligrams of venom.

And we think that a guesstimate on green mamba

lethal dose is probably somewhere

in the neighborhood of 10 or 15 milligrams of venom.

Wow.

So, this would be probably in the neighborhood of three,

four lethal doses of venom, something like that.

OK.

Four tombstones off of the green mamba bite.

Now black mamba, bigger snake, bigger yield.

Sure.

And a greater toxicity.

So black mamba venom, we think probably somewhere--

a lethal dose is probably somewhere

between 5 and 10 milligrams.

To give you a sense of that, that would be like five or 10

grains of salt in your hand.

That's a lethal dose of black mamba venom.

Again, we had that snake bite more than once.

He gave us about two or three shots in here.

But we're looking at about 200 milligrams in that

draw right there.

So of those shots, we were looking

at probably 50 milligrams, 50 milligrams, 60

milligrams, this kind of thing.

We wound up with a total yield of about 200 milligrams.

So, in the case of black mamba venom, if we were to say,

well, 10 milligrams is lethal, and I think

that's probably high, we would be looking at 20

lethal doses of venom here.

And if we cut that in half, 40 lethal doses of venom.

And, again, we were talking about danger and yield

being a part of that.

So a big king cobra might give you 1,200 milligrams of venom

for maybe 60 lethal doses.

OK.

So, even though it's quite a bit less toxic

than the black mamba, the king cobra, or at least less toxic,

huge amounts of venom.

Or an Eastern diamondback where you might get 10 lethal doses

of venom in one shot because it's way less

toxic, but lots more venom.

Does that make sense?

Makes complete sense.

So, it has to do with the level of toxicity, the yield,

and I imagine the last part then becomes the snake's proximity

to humans and how often you may or may not encounter that snake.

Exactly.

Based on where it is that you live.

So, what we're ultimately able to surmise here

is that a mamba bite is a guaranteed death sentence

without antivenom, regardless.

It doesn't matter if it's going to kill

four people or 20 people.

You are one single individual person.

And if you are bitten by either of these snakes,

it's a medical emergency.

No question a medical emergency

and potentially, depending on how much venom he injected,

lethal.

Yes, absolutely.

So what happens with this venom

now that we've milked it?

Where does this go specifically?

So the venom here will be filtered.

It'll be cleaned up a little bit.

It'll be frozen and then it'll be

freeze-dried into a powder form, into a powdered substance.

And once we have it in that freeze-dried form,

it can be stored for literally decades.

All of our mamba venom is going to research applications.

We are not producing these venoms

particularly for antivenoms.

Some of the labs around the world

are producing venom specifically for mamba antivenom.

We don't do that here.

Our mamba venoms are produced for research,

and a good part of it is in the United States or Europe.

Right.

And when it comes to antivenom and its availability

based on where you live.

So here in the United States, the snakes we can come across,

antivenom is produced that specifically

can help people if they are bitten by those species local

to them.

But in a country like South Africa where you've

got a lot of these snakes, depending on where you live

could be a big difference as to whether or not you can

even get antivenom, correct?

Yeah.

You know, I think the African continent is really a good place

to think about the disparity in snake bite treatment worldwide.

So we still see tens of thousands

of deaths from snake bite in places like sub-Saharan Africa

and places like Southeast Asia and parts

of central America and South America,

where medical care may be days away.

And, in fact, when the individual

gets to where they're going, there may not

even be antivenoms available.

So it's not even guaranteed

that if you are in Africa and you were bitten by mamba,

that the medical facility you got to may

not even have mamba antivenom.

It may not even have mamba antivenom

and the medical facility may, in fact, be two days away

from where you are out in the bush working with animals

or whatever it is you're doing out there.

So proximity is-- It's key.

Proximity is everything.

And, you know, developed countries,

we have an incredible luxury and access

to medical care and access to antivenom and snake bite.

Well, Carl, the work that's being done around the world,

specifically the things that you and Mara are doing here

to milk snakes and then ultimately have that venom be

produced into antivenom, is saving

lives on a daily basis, thousands of lives

every single year.

So thank you for all the continued work

that you're doing.

Thank you, sir.

Thanks again, as always, for having us

out here to the Reptile Discovery Center.

Getting to milk the mambas today was certainly

the top level of venomous snakes that we could

have done a venom episode.

Glad you guys enjoyed it.

I'm Coyote Peterson.

Be brave.

Stay wild.

We'll see you on the next adventure.

That was good.

We made through it.

Snake bites seriously injure or kill over 600,000

people worldwide every year.

How crazy is that?