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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:09,070 --> 00:00:12,994 THIS DOCUMENTARY HAS BEEN FILMED OVER THE COURSE OF NINE YEARS 4 00:00:13,115 --> 00:00:16,677 WHAT STARTED OUT AS A FILM ABOUT A TEENAE WHISTLEBLOWER'S INVOLVEMENT WITH WIKILEAKS 5 00:00:16,705 --> 00:00:19,105 TURNED OUT TO BE MUCH MORE THAN THAT 6 00:00:19,274 --> 00:00:22,346 THIS IS THE UNUSUAL STORY OF SIGURDUR THORDARSON 7 00:00:29,575 --> 00:00:33,886 This case is one of the strangest ones I've ever worked on. 8 00:00:33,910 --> 00:00:37,804 Even by Icelandic standards, and trust me, we have weird ones. 9 00:00:38,497 --> 00:00:45,615 One of Julian Assange's top volunteers for WikiLeaks was actually an FBI informant. 10 00:00:48,686 --> 00:00:53,249 We're here because a journalist is being prosecuted. 11 00:00:58,750 --> 00:01:01,069 THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA VS. JULIAN PAUL ASSANGE 12 00:01:01,252 --> 00:01:05,663 The main witness in the FBI case against Julian Assange - 13 00:01:06,196 --> 00:01:08,473 17-YEAR OLD TEENAGER - is named Sigurdur Thordarson. 14 00:01:08,686 --> 00:01:12,357 Thordarson lied against Julian. 15 00:01:15,143 --> 00:01:19,870 There was no hacking. There was no conspiracy. 16 00:01:20,044 --> 00:01:22,341 Thordarson lied! 17 00:01:26,121 --> 00:01:31,547 He is one of the most famous con artists in Iceland. 18 00:01:45,742 --> 00:01:49,437 Sigurdur Thordarson, also known as "Siggi the Hacker". 19 00:01:49,462 --> 00:01:52,140 You'd think that the entire case would collapse. 20 00:01:52,165 --> 00:01:56,960 So a key witness against WikiLeaks has now admitted to lying. 21 00:01:57,060 --> 00:01:59,190 AND/OR ILLEGALLY OBTAIN 22 00:01:59,215 --> 00:02:03,505 It's basically a testimony of a liar, a paedophile and a criminal. 23 00:02:19,690 --> 00:02:25,822 A DANGEROUS BOY 24 00:02:44,070 --> 00:02:48,816 SIGURDUR A.K.A. SIGGI THE HACKER 25 00:02:52,660 --> 00:02:56,464 I'm thinking, Siggi, maybe if you could just walk - 26 00:02:56,489 --> 00:02:59,290 from where you are now and then walk inside the door. 27 00:02:59,314 --> 00:03:02,350 Start sitting there on the bench - 28 00:03:02,858 --> 00:03:05,914 and then you get up, and then you just walk inside. 29 00:03:08,025 --> 00:03:09,385 Yeah, go ahead. 30 00:03:23,923 --> 00:03:27,351 REYKJAVIK PRISON ICELAND 31 00:03:29,757 --> 00:03:35,305 Working for WikiLeaks was, you know, quite exciting times. 32 00:03:35,330 --> 00:03:37,033 It was like in a Hollywood movie - 33 00:03:37,058 --> 00:03:42,114 where you infiltrate government systems and read classified information. 34 00:03:45,276 --> 00:03:50,681 The White House, blasting the release of over 90,000 US military records. 35 00:03:50,706 --> 00:03:53,367 Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks is at the centre - 36 00:03:53,392 --> 00:03:57,223 of hundreds of thousands of secret documents that have made their way online. 37 00:03:57,248 --> 00:04:01,715 By setting up an online electronic drop box - 38 00:04:01,794 --> 00:04:05,596 where whistleblowers around the world could anonymously upload - 39 00:04:05,621 --> 00:04:07,561 sensitive and suppressed information. 40 00:04:07,586 --> 00:04:11,561 I was a famous teenage computer hacker in Australia. 41 00:04:11,586 --> 00:04:14,501 Assange has made WikiLeaks a global force - 42 00:04:14,525 --> 00:04:16,578 and for better or worse exposed - 43 00:04:16,603 --> 00:04:19,543 what he considers some of the world's darkest secrets. 44 00:04:24,949 --> 00:04:28,690 How would a film about you look? 45 00:04:32,647 --> 00:04:36,192 I have no idea. Quite good, I think. 46 00:04:36,459 --> 00:04:38,625 But no, I have no idea. 47 00:04:40,308 --> 00:04:43,118 People will have to make their own opinion of me. 48 00:04:43,685 --> 00:04:45,578 IS THIS THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN IN ICELAND? 49 00:04:45,603 --> 00:04:48,284 Hopefully, I'm a good bad guy. 50 00:04:51,150 --> 00:04:52,887 SIGGI'S MOTHER 51 00:04:52,912 --> 00:04:55,051 - Have you started? - Yeah, yeah. 52 00:04:56,539 --> 00:05:00,138 He was a good kid. Inventive. 53 00:05:00,815 --> 00:05:02,853 Happy, but introvert. 54 00:05:03,421 --> 00:05:07,189 He didn't have a lot of people around him or friends. 55 00:05:07,213 --> 00:05:10,754 But he was very happy and got on by himself. 56 00:05:13,021 --> 00:05:16,673 We didn't know about these talents - 57 00:05:16,698 --> 00:05:20,621 and what he was doing on the computer, because we didn't understand it. 58 00:05:21,184 --> 00:05:26,341 I remember once that he hacked a computer - 59 00:05:26,629 --> 00:05:28,475 when he was 9-10. 60 00:05:29,180 --> 00:05:37,112 He hacked the school system and changed the grades of people he didn't like. 61 00:05:37,612 --> 00:05:40,616 They suspected him of doing it, anyway. 62 00:05:40,641 --> 00:05:44,222 He said he did it. I don't know more about that case. 63 00:05:54,405 --> 00:05:57,667 I was travelling with my family, we were on vacation. 64 00:06:01,705 --> 00:06:05,933 I ended up next to this guy on the airplane - 65 00:06:05,957 --> 00:06:09,187 who was the CEO of Milestone's tax and legal division - 66 00:06:09,212 --> 00:06:11,200 and had some computer problems. 67 00:06:11,225 --> 00:06:13,227 After 10 minutes with the computer - 68 00:06:13,252 --> 00:06:18,705 I managed to end some processes and the computer lived throughout the flight. 69 00:06:18,730 --> 00:06:23,283 After that, he said he might have some computer jobs for me. 70 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:28,546 He said he was helping him with computers. How to do this and that. 71 00:06:28,571 --> 00:06:32,831 And since I'm no good with computers, I had no idea what he was doing. 72 00:06:33,027 --> 00:06:38,137 I wasn't happy about it. He was a young boy, only 15 or 16. 73 00:06:38,162 --> 00:06:42,771 I found it so strange that this man needed his help. 74 00:06:43,436 --> 00:06:45,138 Very strange. 75 00:06:47,365 --> 00:06:52,539 After the flight, I went to his house, fixed the computers. 76 00:06:52,564 --> 00:06:56,732 Later on, we went to a bunch of other houses - 77 00:06:56,757 --> 00:07:01,475 that were connected to Milestone and all companies connected to that lawyer - 78 00:07:01,500 --> 00:07:03,823 and we fixed some computers. 79 00:07:04,048 --> 00:07:07,945 I realised that the computers had 80 00:07:08,405 --> 00:07:12,413 quite a lot of confidential material - 81 00:07:12,438 --> 00:07:17,499 about the Icelandic banking system, about financial companies in Iceland - 82 00:07:18,124 --> 00:07:23,704 about individuals connected to the political life. 83 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:29,884 I noticed that the actions of the company might not be legitimate. 84 00:07:30,414 --> 00:07:35,029 I tried to give the information to the Resolution Committees of the banks. 85 00:07:35,053 --> 00:07:37,293 I tried to do the right thing. 86 00:07:37,318 --> 00:07:41,905 I realised that nobody gave a shit about what the right thing was. 87 00:07:44,432 --> 00:07:46,590 I copied the material - 88 00:07:46,989 --> 00:07:50,982 and contacted a local newspaper and said: 89 00:07:51,007 --> 00:07:56,585 "I might have information that might be valuable to publish." 90 00:07:56,875 --> 00:07:59,862 And they published front page after front page. 91 00:08:04,845 --> 00:08:09,203 Nine companies and homes were raided today in regard to - 92 00:08:09,228 --> 00:08:13,245 alleged fraud at Sjóvá, Milestone and Askar Capital. 93 00:08:17,649 --> 00:08:22,640 The global financial crisis hit Iceland first and hardest. 94 00:08:22,665 --> 00:08:27,380 How is it possible that they allowed the Icelandic banking system - 95 00:08:27,526 --> 00:08:30,870 to grow ten times the size of our GDP? 96 00:08:30,895 --> 00:08:35,749 Bankers were shovelling up the public's money and spreading it around themselves. 97 00:08:40,036 --> 00:08:46,958 His father got a call and was told that the police were searching his room. 98 00:08:46,983 --> 00:08:52,512 I hurried home, of course, and found the police searching his room. 99 00:08:52,537 --> 00:08:55,616 It was a terrible thing to experience. 100 00:08:58,122 --> 00:09:01,790 One of my closest friends decided to contact the police - 101 00:09:01,815 --> 00:09:05,784 and the lawyer for Milestone and let them know - 102 00:09:05,809 --> 00:09:08,834 that the information being leaked to the media came from me. 103 00:09:08,859 --> 00:09:12,981 A 17-year-old boy has been arrested for stealing confidential files - 104 00:09:13,006 --> 00:09:16,188 from a lawyer employed by Milestone and Eidur Smári Gudjohnsen. 105 00:09:16,213 --> 00:09:21,424 I leaked information connected to many powerful individuals in Iceland. 106 00:09:22,058 --> 00:09:25,963 Even the financial minister is connected to those documents. 107 00:09:32,363 --> 00:09:35,886 All he did was blow the whistle. 108 00:09:35,911 --> 00:09:39,139 In this case, he was the one who leaked the files. 109 00:09:39,164 --> 00:09:43,197 But the people who owned them should've been held accountable. 110 00:10:11,491 --> 00:10:15,501 Siggi was introduced to me and Julian - 111 00:10:15,526 --> 00:10:18,927 at an event that we were participating in. 112 00:10:18,952 --> 00:10:24,016 Kristinn Hrafnsson introduced Siggi to Assange - 113 00:10:24,504 --> 00:10:27,844 as this kid that had been wronged - 114 00:10:28,086 --> 00:10:32,234 by a media outlet that had outed him. 115 00:10:39,297 --> 00:10:43,788 We are a gateway for whistleblowers, who deem - 116 00:10:43,813 --> 00:10:47,660 they're sitting on information that they think should be in the public domain. 117 00:10:47,685 --> 00:10:51,659 I got a phone call from Kristinn Hrafnsson, who said: 118 00:10:51,684 --> 00:10:55,375 "There's this guy that you'd probably be interested in meeting." 119 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,295 "Well, what's his name?" 120 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,382 "His name is Julian Assange." "Who the fuck is that?" 121 00:11:04,288 --> 00:11:10,701 I started googling him, found nothing, The guy was nobody at that time. 122 00:11:10,861 --> 00:11:13,815 But I decided to agree to meet him, and he said - 123 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:20,053 Yeah, he was holding a conference about whistleblower security - 124 00:11:20,078 --> 00:11:24,765 at the University of Iceland, and I said, "Yeah, I'll be there." 125 00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:29,888 When I walked in, he was screaming at the individual that outed me in the newspaper. 126 00:11:29,913 --> 00:11:32,851 He was slamming the guy for outing a source. 127 00:11:32,876 --> 00:11:36,586 So my first impression of him was, "He is quite good." 128 00:11:36,706 --> 00:11:39,279 FOUNDER OF WIKILEAKS 129 00:11:41,230 --> 00:11:43,995 After the conference, I walked up to him. 130 00:11:44,020 --> 00:11:47,475 He knew who I was because Kristinn had told him - 131 00:11:47,500 --> 00:11:52,597 and we spent maybe three hours talking about nothing and everything - 132 00:11:52,622 --> 00:11:55,490 and politics, computers, didn't matter. 133 00:12:10,468 --> 00:12:14,343 And what was your first impression of Julian Assange? 134 00:12:14,368 --> 00:12:20,072 Some anarchist activist that was nothing but his mouth doing it - 135 00:12:20,097 --> 00:12:25,731 like 80-90% of activists, "Yeah, we have to go do something now!" 136 00:12:25,756 --> 00:12:31,024 And 10% actually do something that might actually change something. 137 00:12:33,045 --> 00:12:36,363 I found out that he was one of the 10%. 138 00:12:36,777 --> 00:12:41,822 We were like Batman and Robin. Some have said we were like father and son. 139 00:12:43,095 --> 00:12:49,638 We both grew up experimenting with computers and leaking information. 140 00:12:49,790 --> 00:12:52,451 Our youth is quite similar. 141 00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:14,260 SIGGI'S FRIEND 142 00:13:14,354 --> 00:13:17,711 Here in Iceland, a lot of people go to the pool after work to relax - 143 00:13:17,736 --> 00:13:20,362 and talk football, politics or whatever. 144 00:13:20,947 --> 00:13:25,241 Siggi happened to be there one night and started talking to us. 145 00:13:25,437 --> 00:13:28,893 We didn't believe a word of what he was saying at first. 146 00:13:28,918 --> 00:13:33,398 Then a lot of stories started to pop up in international and local news - 147 00:13:33,423 --> 00:13:36,400 so okay, he was involved with WikiLeaks. 148 00:13:37,928 --> 00:13:41,696 He's not your regular 17-year-old. He's bright, very polite - 149 00:13:41,721 --> 00:13:45,305 doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, never gets mad, treats people nice. 150 00:13:45,330 --> 00:13:48,064 A normal teenager would be running around having fun - 151 00:13:48,089 --> 00:13:51,917 but he had his face down in his computer and world politics. 152 00:14:03,202 --> 00:14:07,388 Many of the leaks WikiLeaks obtained were illegally obtained. 153 00:14:07,412 --> 00:14:11,973 They didn't come from whistleblowers or leakers. They came from hackers. 154 00:14:13,537 --> 00:14:16,348 - Hello. - Hey. How's life? 155 00:14:16,372 --> 00:14:19,807 Life is fucking hectic, bro. It's crazy. 156 00:14:21,266 --> 00:14:22,553 It's fucking busy. 157 00:14:23,044 --> 00:14:27,402 We had this team of world-class hackers. 158 00:14:27,696 --> 00:14:33,230 They just did it. We broke into emails of President Assad in Syria - 159 00:14:33,255 --> 00:14:37,539 that proved he was transferring millions of euros from government funds - 160 00:14:37,564 --> 00:14:40,208 to his own personal bank account in Switzerland. 161 00:14:40,373 --> 00:14:43,804 We had emails from government institutions. 162 00:14:43,829 --> 00:14:46,848 We had emails and passwords. 163 00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:51,195 It's so surreal, being under the age of 20 - 164 00:14:51,220 --> 00:14:55,603 and having the capabilities of having people to infiltrate - 165 00:14:56,110 --> 00:14:59,362 the world's biggest governments. 166 00:14:59,684 --> 00:15:03,776 We even infiltrated the email system of the American Senate. 167 00:15:04,641 --> 00:15:06,868 We had emails from NASA. 168 00:15:08,586 --> 00:15:09,886 Welcome aboard. 169 00:15:09,911 --> 00:15:15,650 It never occurred to me, the consequences of what I might be doing. 170 00:15:15,810 --> 00:15:20,949 One of the guys that I was connected to, LulzSec, is serving 25 years. 171 00:15:21,896 --> 00:15:24,871 And then you start to think, "Shit." 172 00:15:24,896 --> 00:15:27,800 A major takedown in the war against computer crime. 173 00:15:27,825 --> 00:15:31,343 Authorities in the US and Europe just rounded up alleged hackers - 174 00:15:31,368 --> 00:15:35,002 suspected in a recent string of high-profile cyberattacks. 175 00:15:35,033 --> 00:15:37,777 What the fuck have I put myself into? 176 00:15:38,038 --> 00:15:41,068 But... you don't think, you know? 177 00:15:41,093 --> 00:15:45,657 One of those charged, Hector Monsegur, known as Sabu, pleaded guilty. 178 00:15:45,682 --> 00:15:50,379 Law enforcement officials say Sabu and his associates are behind notorious hacks. 179 00:15:53,716 --> 00:16:00,188 Why Julian Assange trusted me as he did is still unknown to me to this day. 180 00:16:00,213 --> 00:16:01,366 I wouldn't have. 181 00:16:02,508 --> 00:16:05,218 - Why? - Because I was that young. 182 00:16:05,768 --> 00:16:10,843 I wouldn't have trusted me for a second. 183 00:16:11,157 --> 00:16:13,625 I was way too young for this shit. 184 00:16:29,389 --> 00:16:32,459 Just for today, I will not anger. 185 00:16:34,259 --> 00:16:37,406 Just for today, I will not worry. 186 00:16:38,816 --> 00:16:41,706 Just for today, I will be humble. 187 00:16:43,470 --> 00:16:47,002 Just for today, I will be honest. 188 00:16:48,261 --> 00:16:51,714 Just for today, I will be compassionate. 189 00:16:56,390 --> 00:17:00,960 SIGGI'S PRIEST 190 00:17:01,939 --> 00:17:07,595 It's unacceptable and irresponsible of this organisation - 191 00:17:08,049 --> 00:17:09,832 to involve such a young boy in this. 192 00:17:09,857 --> 00:17:12,885 Siggi couldn't go to school or work - 193 00:17:12,910 --> 00:17:15,866 because there was always something to do at WikiLeaks. 194 00:17:16,310 --> 00:17:19,947 He was up all night, working on chat logs - 195 00:17:20,007 --> 00:17:23,910 delegating tasks and running through material that was sent in. 196 00:17:23,935 --> 00:17:28,769 With all the people around the world who were sympathising with Wikileaks - 197 00:17:29,209 --> 00:17:32,968 you'd think it would be easy to find someone - 198 00:17:32,993 --> 00:17:38,582 that was more mature and better suited for the job. 199 00:17:39,032 --> 00:17:41,201 But in Siggi - 200 00:17:41,611 --> 00:17:46,589 Julian had a young man who did what he was told. 201 00:17:58,357 --> 00:18:01,030 My imprisonment now is - 202 00:18:01,055 --> 00:18:08,006 because I paid an individual under the age of 18 for sexual favours. 203 00:18:08,193 --> 00:18:13,164 Sigurdur Ingi was sentenced last year for sexually abusing a 17-year-old boy. 204 00:18:13,189 --> 00:18:19,004 In Iceland, the legal age is 15 years. With the restriction - 205 00:18:19,029 --> 00:18:23,260 that if you are 15, your sexual partner can't be over 18. 206 00:18:23,501 --> 00:18:28,671 If the other person is over 18, he commits a crime. 207 00:18:34,791 --> 00:18:37,685 The age difference was 1.5 years. 208 00:18:39,010 --> 00:18:41,211 How is that child molestation? 209 00:18:41,447 --> 00:18:43,753 PROMISING HIM 210 00:18:43,834 --> 00:18:46,446 AMONG OTHER THINGS 211 00:18:46,574 --> 00:18:49,386 LARGE SUMS OF MONEY 212 00:18:50,065 --> 00:18:54,853 I wouldn't say I was paying him for sex. It was just gifts, you know. 213 00:18:56,387 --> 00:18:59,020 Like people give to their boyfriends or girlfriends. 214 00:19:00,856 --> 00:19:04,125 This young man that he still has a relationship with - 215 00:19:04,909 --> 00:19:07,573 over the phone, now that he's in prison - 216 00:19:07,855 --> 00:19:11,206 they have a kind of love relationship. 217 00:19:11,955 --> 00:19:14,815 Something that Siggi's never experienced before. 218 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:20,405 It's hard for him to express what it is. You have to explain that it's love. 219 00:19:20,848 --> 00:19:24,066 He doesn't understand it. 220 00:19:24,091 --> 00:19:28,658 It's hard for him to explain these feelings that he's never had before. 221 00:19:28,849 --> 00:19:32,186 If he doesn't answer me for three days - 222 00:19:32,211 --> 00:19:38,114 or if I don't call him for three days, then I start making assumptions: 223 00:19:38,138 --> 00:19:42,868 "Why is he not communicating with me? Why is he not answering me?" 224 00:19:42,893 --> 00:19:45,728 "What's wrong? Why has he stopped talking to me?" 225 00:19:45,753 --> 00:19:50,702 "Is the media saying something about me that I don't know?" Blah-blah, you know. 226 00:19:50,872 --> 00:19:55,308 But as often as that has happened - 227 00:19:55,333 --> 00:20:00,426 there's usually a normal explanation for why he didn't pick up. 228 00:20:01,340 --> 00:20:04,385 He was out driving or whatever. 229 00:20:04,895 --> 00:20:09,190 To me it sounds like there are some feelings between you. 230 00:20:09,215 --> 00:20:12,384 Some would characterise these feelings as feeling love. 231 00:20:12,409 --> 00:20:14,342 How would you characterise it? 232 00:20:14,766 --> 00:20:18,774 I have no idea how to characterise those feelings. 233 00:20:19,208 --> 00:20:23,475 I couldn't imagine or couldn't guess even. 234 00:20:23,519 --> 00:20:24,876 I have no idea. 235 00:20:26,232 --> 00:20:30,613 This boy's parents pressed charges - 236 00:20:31,847 --> 00:20:34,639 on the basis of a referral from the police. 237 00:20:35,309 --> 00:20:38,797 In other words - 238 00:20:38,822 --> 00:20:44,218 the police asked people to press charges. 239 00:20:44,243 --> 00:20:48,537 The police called them and visited these people - 240 00:20:48,562 --> 00:20:52,089 and urged them to press charges against Siggi. 241 00:20:52,578 --> 00:20:55,132 Perhaps making them worse than they were. 242 00:20:56,510 --> 00:21:02,659 SIGGI "THE HACKER" CHARGED WITH MULTIPLE SEXUAL OFFENCES AGAINST MINORS 243 00:21:11,338 --> 00:21:16,224 Our heavenly Father, we thank you for the positive effect you have on Siggi. 244 00:21:16,249 --> 00:21:20,822 We pray that the Holy Spirit will be with him and bless him. 245 00:21:24,329 --> 00:21:28,803 We pray this prayer in the name of Jesus Christ. 246 00:21:29,751 --> 00:21:30,877 Amen. 247 00:21:33,369 --> 00:21:34,369 So... 248 00:21:38,922 --> 00:21:41,447 - Half an hour to departure. - Yeah. 249 00:21:41,472 --> 00:21:42,920 Hopefully, it goes well. 250 00:21:43,021 --> 00:21:44,021 Yeah. 251 00:21:48,146 --> 00:21:51,173 We'll see what happens. They're not letting us out of here. 252 00:22:07,556 --> 00:22:09,283 - Are you okay? - Of course. 253 00:22:10,266 --> 00:22:11,670 It's going to go fine. 254 00:22:12,113 --> 00:22:16,117 We can clearly see that there is a consequence - 255 00:22:16,425 --> 00:22:21,595 as a result of the leak from 2009 - 256 00:22:21,620 --> 00:22:23,074 of the Milestone data - 257 00:22:23,099 --> 00:22:27,614 which includes many people involved in the Icelandic financial crisis - 258 00:22:27,639 --> 00:22:31,608 for example, the head of the economic police in Reykjavik. 259 00:23:00,364 --> 00:23:05,382 They were after him for a long time. I guess it started back in 2010. 260 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:10,723 I have no knowledge of what the police were doing. They called me twice - 261 00:23:10,748 --> 00:23:14,083 and asked if I knew Siggi and I said yes. And they said: 262 00:23:14,108 --> 00:23:16,960 "Stay away from him, he's dangerous. He's a psychopath." 263 00:23:17,961 --> 00:23:20,971 But they didn't ask me real questions - 264 00:23:21,442 --> 00:23:25,039 so I told them to pick up the newest copy of Rolling Stone magazine. 265 00:23:25,064 --> 00:23:29,231 There's a five-page interview. If you need to know something about Siggi, read that. 266 00:23:30,510 --> 00:23:34,696 But if you're asking if he was being bullied by the police... 267 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,668 Like I said, Iceland is a small town. 268 00:23:39,543 --> 00:23:41,637 You step on toes, you're going to feel it. 269 00:23:57,422 --> 00:23:59,182 Those are the case files. 270 00:23:59,350 --> 00:24:02,183 And this is Siggi from the prosecution. 271 00:24:10,670 --> 00:24:12,585 SIGGI'S LAWYER 272 00:24:12,818 --> 00:24:14,961 Do you think, in your opinion - 273 00:24:14,986 --> 00:24:20,883 that somebody's out to suppress the rights of Siggi? 274 00:24:20,908 --> 00:24:26,428 I really can't say, but it's obvious that Siggi has pissed off - 275 00:24:27,769 --> 00:24:31,284 many persons that have a lot of authority. 276 00:24:32,295 --> 00:24:35,144 I really can't go deeper into it than that. 277 00:25:05,310 --> 00:25:11,886 SIGGI THE HACKER SENTENCED TO THREE YEARS IN PRISON 278 00:25:14,783 --> 00:25:18,296 FORMER WIKILEAKS VOLUNTEER "SIGGI THE HACKER" 279 00:25:18,321 --> 00:25:21,905 SENTENCED TO PRISON FOR SEXUALLY VIOLATING TEENAGE BOYS 280 00:25:24,541 --> 00:25:30,126 CONFESSED IN COURT TO CHARGES OF SEXUAL ABUSE BROUGHT AGAINST HIM BY NINE TEENAGE BOYS... 281 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:31,793 AUGUST 28, 2015 282 00:25:33,314 --> 00:25:36,108 NINE TEENAGE BOYS... 283 00:25:55,482 --> 00:25:59,252 A man sentenced to three years for the sexual assault of nine boys last year - 284 00:25:59,276 --> 00:26:02,295 has been released from prison after nine months. 285 00:26:02,418 --> 00:26:07,757 He will be placed on electronic monitoring probation. 286 00:26:29,446 --> 00:26:34,669 You can see here one news report about that I have been released from jail. 287 00:26:34,889 --> 00:26:36,720 Can you read some of the comments? 288 00:26:40,165 --> 00:26:43,734 "A psychological monster that has no conscience." 289 00:26:43,759 --> 00:26:48,605 "Do you think he has finished? Who will be his next victims?" 290 00:26:50,494 --> 00:26:54,898 "Amazing that this son of a bitch should walk free." 291 00:26:54,923 --> 00:26:56,898 "You're disgusting. You're a monster." 292 00:26:56,923 --> 00:27:01,643 "A man like you are the people that should erase themselves." 293 00:27:04,242 --> 00:27:07,282 And here: "In my eyes, he's a rapist and a murderer." 294 00:27:07,308 --> 00:27:10,400 "HE LOST ALL HOPE" 295 00:27:11,816 --> 00:27:14,417 ...TOOK HIS OWN LIFE... 296 00:27:15,657 --> 00:27:19,844 The story was basically that their son had committed suicide - 297 00:27:19,869 --> 00:27:23,373 but my name was never implicated in the story. 298 00:27:25,166 --> 00:27:28,616 But people just made a guess based on the facts of the story. 299 00:27:42,106 --> 00:27:45,919 COPENHAGEN DENMARK 300 00:27:55,356 --> 00:28:00,705 I could basically just sit on a bench and look at people all day - 301 00:28:00,730 --> 00:28:05,016 doing their... just busy with their normal lives. 302 00:28:06,059 --> 00:28:10,688 It's interesting when people ask me, "How do you feel about your story?" 303 00:28:10,845 --> 00:28:16,108 I say, "Well, it's normal for me." I don't know anything else - 304 00:28:16,133 --> 00:28:22,498 but then again, normality is perhaps something we create. 305 00:28:53,432 --> 00:28:55,971 Just before filming, you start eating candy. 306 00:28:56,009 --> 00:28:57,436 You told me to get some. 307 00:28:59,221 --> 00:29:01,918 You said, "You want some?" So I got some. 308 00:29:02,027 --> 00:29:04,542 Now we have to wait until you finish your candy. 309 00:29:10,515 --> 00:29:11,669 Let's go. 310 00:29:11,694 --> 00:29:14,636 People of Iceland, you are not alone. 311 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,958 Julian returned to Iceland and we agreed to meet. 312 00:29:19,140 --> 00:29:24,513 Julian took out his computer and started downloading something from a server - 313 00:29:24,538 --> 00:29:28,803 which was the video later known as Collateral Murder. 314 00:29:30,487 --> 00:29:31,927 Stay firm. 315 00:29:31,980 --> 00:29:33,820 And open the courtyard. 316 00:29:35,270 --> 00:29:37,621 I just estimate there's probably about 20 of them. 317 00:29:37,646 --> 00:29:40,580 - There's one, yeah. - Oh yeah. 318 00:29:43,366 --> 00:29:45,594 Hey, Bushmaster element, copy on the one-six. 319 00:29:45,704 --> 00:29:47,190 - That's a weapon. - Yeah. 320 00:29:48,183 --> 00:29:50,666 Hotel Two-Six: Crazy Horse One-Eight. 321 00:29:50,691 --> 00:29:55,461 The video is about an Apache helicopter hovering over Baghdad. 322 00:29:55,499 --> 00:29:58,712 The Apache helicopter notices that they have something in their hands - 323 00:29:58,737 --> 00:30:01,412 which is basically a Canon camera. 324 00:30:02,249 --> 00:30:03,350 Fucking prick. 325 00:30:03,423 --> 00:30:07,668 Hotel Two-Six, Crazy Horse One-Eight. Have individuals with weapons. 326 00:30:08,514 --> 00:30:12,317 They were just photographers for the news agency Reuters. 327 00:30:13,272 --> 00:30:15,040 - You're clear. - Alright, firing. 328 00:30:16,505 --> 00:30:18,500 - Let me know when you've got them. - Let's shoot. 329 00:30:19,194 --> 00:30:20,337 Light them all up. 330 00:30:21,518 --> 00:30:22,817 Come on, fire! 331 00:30:28,394 --> 00:30:29,474 Keep shooting. 332 00:30:32,030 --> 00:30:33,158 Keep shooting. 333 00:30:35,495 --> 00:30:38,557 It was disgusting to see something like this. 334 00:30:42,858 --> 00:30:45,550 - I think they just drove over a body. - Really? 335 00:30:45,575 --> 00:30:46,575 Yeah! 336 00:30:47,947 --> 00:30:50,388 WikiLeaks became famous overnight. 337 00:30:50,595 --> 00:30:53,405 It became the biggest talking subject - 338 00:30:53,430 --> 00:30:56,695 in the entire world in a matter of a few hours. 339 00:30:58,082 --> 00:31:03,051 US MILITARY CONFIRMS AUTHENTICITY OF THEIR OWN CHILLING VIDEO SHOWING KILLING OF JOURNALISTS 340 00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:07,287 IRAQ VIDEO BRINGS NOTICE TO A WEB SITE 341 00:31:07,312 --> 00:31:10,320 WikiLeaks obtained a lot of information through the same source - 342 00:31:10,345 --> 00:31:13,532 allegedly Bradley Manning. 343 00:31:13,578 --> 00:31:16,185 WIKILEAKS RELEASES 250K DIPLOMATIC CABLES; WHITE HOUSE CONDEMNS - There is more fallout tonight 344 00:31:16,209 --> 00:31:18,514 from those thousands of pages of leaked. 345 00:31:18,549 --> 00:31:21,364 LEAKED CABLES OFFER RAW LOOK AT U.S. DIPLOMACY - US state secrets on the WikiLeaks website. 346 00:31:21,388 --> 00:31:23,560 US EMBASSY CABLES LEAKS SPARKS GLOBAL DIPLOMATIC CRISIS - The state department has now cut off - 347 00:31:23,585 --> 00:31:28,580 one US military computer network from its database of diplomatic cables. 348 00:31:28,668 --> 00:31:32,489 The diplomatic cables were one of the parts that WikiLeaks released - 349 00:31:32,568 --> 00:31:36,798 that contained information about diplomatic communications - 350 00:31:36,910 --> 00:31:42,421 between US embassies and their allies and other nations around the world. 351 00:31:42,446 --> 00:31:47,367 This leak is an outrage and it's going to cause incalculable damage - 352 00:31:47,392 --> 00:31:50,278 to American diplomatic efforts around the world. 353 00:31:50,303 --> 00:31:52,764 The United States strongly condemns - 354 00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:56,727 the illegal disclosure of classified information. 355 00:31:56,759 --> 00:32:00,383 One of my jobs was to travel the world with this information. 356 00:32:03,778 --> 00:32:07,653 I travelled to Holland, Hungary - 357 00:32:07,678 --> 00:32:10,831 France, Honduras, Mexico. 358 00:32:16,748 --> 00:32:21,285 If I'd been arrested, I'd probably still be sitting in a US jail - 359 00:32:21,417 --> 00:32:29,360 because the statute of penalty in the US regarding classified information - 360 00:32:29,385 --> 00:32:32,719 is decades of years in prison. 361 00:32:33,318 --> 00:32:36,123 And I can promise you we were not allowed - 362 00:32:36,201 --> 00:32:39,310 to have this sort of information in our possession. 363 00:32:39,741 --> 00:32:44,073 We weren't journalists, so we couldn't hide behind that idea. 364 00:32:44,098 --> 00:32:48,736 We were just a group of guys travelling with classified information. 365 00:32:53,022 --> 00:32:57,382 He's travelling for WikiLeaks but doesn't like to travel alone. 366 00:32:57,407 --> 00:32:59,629 He's beginning to feel threatened. 367 00:33:00,627 --> 00:33:05,487 He has these notions that state agents might be following him - 368 00:33:05,512 --> 00:33:08,380 as he's carrying these diplomatic cables. 369 00:33:09,523 --> 00:33:16,803 He asks me to accompany him to Paris and serve as his security adviser. 370 00:33:16,828 --> 00:33:21,204 I agree, thinking it'll be fun to do some good. 371 00:33:21,506 --> 00:33:25,437 At the other end of the scale, so to speak. 372 00:33:34,124 --> 00:33:38,505 I've been on operations against Al-Qaeda, the Mexican Zetas - 373 00:33:38,586 --> 00:33:44,925 Triads in Hong Kong and Macau, pirates in Singapore, Somalia. Sailed in Yemen. 374 00:33:45,421 --> 00:33:49,525 Just sitting here, I can find 100 ways - 375 00:33:49,675 --> 00:33:53,320 to kill you with 100 different things before you can leave the room. 376 00:33:53,359 --> 00:33:55,381 I was never a mercenary. 377 00:33:55,412 --> 00:33:57,094 I thought it was wrong. 378 00:33:57,156 --> 00:33:59,156 But I want to protect people. 379 00:33:59,682 --> 00:34:04,197 I think it's perfectly okay to be a security guard or a bodyguard. 380 00:34:09,691 --> 00:34:12,016 Shortly after he turned 18 - 381 00:34:12,041 --> 00:34:15,852 he came home with a plane ticket from Julian. 382 00:34:16,037 --> 00:34:19,840 He was on his way to South America on behalf of WikiLeaks. 383 00:34:20,182 --> 00:34:23,262 He'd be travelling with bodyguards - 384 00:34:23,842 --> 00:34:28,298 to meet some journalists there. 385 00:34:28,905 --> 00:34:35,200 That's when I'd had enough. I told him enough was enough. 386 00:34:35,225 --> 00:34:38,453 "I don't want you travelling alone in South America on their behalf." 387 00:34:38,876 --> 00:34:42,576 But he said he was 18 and he was going. 388 00:34:43,937 --> 00:34:50,621 I asked him for Kristinn's number, Kristinn Hrafnsson. 389 00:34:52,875 --> 00:34:56,591 I wanted to speak with him, but I never got the number. 390 00:34:56,616 --> 00:34:59,894 So I tried looking it up in the phone book. 391 00:35:00,443 --> 00:35:04,826 I finally found it and I called and called, but he never answered. 392 00:35:05,473 --> 00:35:10,460 Then I asked for Julian's number. Siggi didn't give me that either. 393 00:35:11,656 --> 00:35:17,309 And then he left, despite our objections. 394 00:35:21,376 --> 00:35:23,499 You're travelling with bodyguards. 395 00:35:23,584 --> 00:35:26,234 Is it true that you also travelled with a teddy bear? 396 00:35:26,958 --> 00:35:27,958 No. 397 00:35:30,117 --> 00:35:31,143 Yes. 398 00:35:31,890 --> 00:35:35,965 Yeah, I travelled with it, because ever since I was a kid - 399 00:35:36,056 --> 00:35:39,140 I've had the same teddy bear. His name is Bumpe. 400 00:35:41,075 --> 00:35:46,048 He travelled every single country with me. It feels safe to have the teddy bear - 401 00:35:46,073 --> 00:35:48,724 because he's never going to stab me in the back. 402 00:35:49,830 --> 00:35:53,122 So you were travelling with bodyguards and a teddy bear - 403 00:35:53,147 --> 00:35:55,071 and the biggest leak in world history. 404 00:35:55,848 --> 00:36:01,010 Yeah, when you put it like that, it looks disastrous. 405 00:36:01,707 --> 00:36:04,662 But yes. Yes, that's true. 406 00:36:12,155 --> 00:36:14,529 It was really funny. The people we met - 407 00:36:14,561 --> 00:36:19,016 actually thought Dan was the WikiLeaks representative travelling with his son. 408 00:36:20,333 --> 00:36:23,957 You should've seen the editor-in-chief when he found out - 409 00:36:23,982 --> 00:36:28,818 that Dan was my bodyguard not my father, and I was the WikiLeaks representative. 410 00:36:29,174 --> 00:36:34,571 In Paris, I let him be the boss of WikiLeaks. 411 00:36:34,735 --> 00:36:39,798 To me he was, so I pretty much let him call the shots. 412 00:36:40,047 --> 00:36:42,587 But I quickly noticed that he was a teenager. 413 00:36:42,797 --> 00:36:44,965 If we had a meeting at ten, 414 00:36:45,366 --> 00:36:49,078 I had to kick him out of bed at nine - 415 00:36:49,103 --> 00:36:52,610 because he'd been online all night long. 416 00:36:53,583 --> 00:36:55,978 On the third day, I'd had enough. 417 00:36:56,003 --> 00:36:59,529 I just started ordering him around as if he was my son. 418 00:37:00,255 --> 00:37:02,756 I started telling him how to behave. 419 00:37:03,244 --> 00:37:06,150 He loved McDonald's and we don't have that in Iceland. 420 00:37:06,175 --> 00:37:11,839 Here we are in Paris, eating McDonald's because the boss wants to. 421 00:37:12,464 --> 00:37:13,815 Heartbreaking. 422 00:37:13,996 --> 00:37:17,792 Slowly we begin to bond. 423 00:37:18,180 --> 00:37:22,661 We rent bikes and see the sights together between meetings. 424 00:37:24,145 --> 00:37:29,891 As a result of these trips together, we form a close friendship. 425 00:37:35,145 --> 00:37:39,230 Dan has helped me a lot through a great deal of problems. 426 00:37:39,361 --> 00:37:44,665 If it wasn't for him making me realise what I had done bad - 427 00:37:44,690 --> 00:37:50,762 then I'd probably never have pled guilty in my cases. 428 00:37:50,831 --> 00:37:54,085 I'd probably still be saying it was a mistake - 429 00:37:54,116 --> 00:37:57,599 the police fucked me or I'm innocent or whatever. 430 00:38:00,801 --> 00:38:03,403 We were walking the streets of New York - 431 00:38:03,433 --> 00:38:07,024 and we got this great idea to enter a spy shop. 432 00:38:07,475 --> 00:38:11,171 And in the spy shop, we found a pepper spray pen. 433 00:38:12,346 --> 00:38:17,669 We went back to the hotel and got this idea to try out the pepper spray - 434 00:38:17,694 --> 00:38:22,334 just to make sure that if we got attacked, it worked. And... 435 00:38:25,297 --> 00:38:30,148 Later on, we went to a meeting with Forbes Magazine with the editor-in-chief. 436 00:38:32,228 --> 00:38:35,120 And my eyes were soaking red. 437 00:38:35,158 --> 00:38:38,968 And they asked me if I had been smoking pot or weed. 438 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,989 "No, no, no, we were just playing with pepper spray." 439 00:38:43,020 --> 00:38:45,329 "Aha, yeah right." 440 00:38:45,670 --> 00:38:49,262 DO YOU WANT TO KNOW A SECRET? 441 00:38:49,755 --> 00:38:52,891 From day one after the release of the Collateral Murder video - 442 00:38:52,916 --> 00:38:55,959 Julian got paranoid. Understandably. 443 00:38:55,984 --> 00:38:59,902 How should governments deal with the WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange? 444 00:38:59,940 --> 00:39:02,931 This been, a lot of comments from other US commentators 445 00:39:02,969 --> 00:39:04,883 say he should be treated as a traitor. 446 00:39:04,908 --> 00:39:07,484 There have been threats to his life. 447 00:39:07,509 --> 00:39:12,203 There's been incitement to commit murder by people in high places - 448 00:39:12,228 --> 00:39:13,610 which is outrageous. 449 00:39:13,641 --> 00:39:18,439 I think Assange should be assassinated. Obama should put out a contract - 450 00:39:18,464 --> 00:39:22,211 and maybe use a drone or something. There's no good coming of this. 451 00:39:22,236 --> 00:39:24,838 To some, a hero. To others, a villain. 452 00:39:24,863 --> 00:39:28,106 The legal net has now closed in on the WikiLeaks founder. 453 00:39:28,131 --> 00:39:32,902 Interpol is alerting police that he's on their most wanted website. 454 00:39:32,927 --> 00:39:38,468 Assange has been arrested in London over allegations of rape and sexual assault. 455 00:39:38,493 --> 00:39:43,567 Assange denies any wrongdoing, saying the allegations are part of a smear campaign. 456 00:39:43,592 --> 00:39:47,988 Mr Assange's lawyers fear a fair trial in the US would be impossible - 457 00:39:48,013 --> 00:39:52,083 as the leaked embassy cables have provoked such outrage in Washington. 458 00:39:52,108 --> 00:39:55,016 Facing sex allegations against two women in Sweden - 459 00:39:55,041 --> 00:39:59,618 the WikiLeaks founder was finally granted bail. Next stop, Ellingham Hall. 460 00:40:15,592 --> 00:40:20,323 Julian thought that everybody was working against him as a result of his paranoia. 461 00:40:21,108 --> 00:40:25,167 The only people he trusted were the people he knew before everything started. 462 00:40:28,229 --> 00:40:32,894 So he started surveillance operations against people working for WikiLeaks. 463 00:40:32,919 --> 00:40:36,121 Volunteers, etc., even journalists. 464 00:40:36,146 --> 00:40:39,336 Everything was searched without the knowledge of the person. 465 00:40:39,522 --> 00:40:44,118 So if you were a volunteer arriving at Ellingham, your luggage would be searched. 466 00:40:44,928 --> 00:40:46,972 But you wouldn't know it. 467 00:40:47,792 --> 00:40:50,391 I went through it very delicately. 468 00:40:55,772 --> 00:40:58,990 - And you did this on behalf of Julian? - Yes. 469 00:40:59,015 --> 00:41:04,192 All surveillance "ops" were done on behalf of Julian. 470 00:41:04,217 --> 00:41:08,983 Julian got a copy of everything on the hard drives or the computers. 471 00:41:10,047 --> 00:41:11,356 FORMER WIKILEAKS MEMBER 472 00:41:11,381 --> 00:41:13,721 I think that the reason why - 473 00:41:13,746 --> 00:41:18,752 Assange entrusted a teenager at the time 474 00:41:19,612 --> 00:41:21,347 with a lot of the activities - 475 00:41:21,372 --> 00:41:23,488 is because he couldn't get anyone else to do it. 476 00:41:25,287 --> 00:41:29,704 Assange was extremely strict with - 477 00:41:29,729 --> 00:41:34,128 never leaving a copy on our computers - 478 00:41:34,153 --> 00:41:37,535 of any of the chats for security reasons. 479 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,949 It was part of a security protocol. I remember it very vividly - 480 00:41:41,974 --> 00:41:46,350 because in the early days, I had forgotten to... 481 00:41:46,381 --> 00:41:50,253 Nobody had taught me how to erase it immediately, the logs - 482 00:41:50,966 --> 00:41:56,778 and Assange spent a full 15 minutes screaming at me - 483 00:41:57,026 --> 00:42:00,133 for having kept the logs accidentally. 484 00:42:00,348 --> 00:42:06,041 Where it's obvious that Siggi kept all the logs of all our conversations. 485 00:42:06,202 --> 00:42:09,479 That's... bizarre. 486 00:42:16,388 --> 00:42:22,419 I was afraid that with everything going on and my participation in hacking things - 487 00:42:22,624 --> 00:42:27,886 I might actually end up spending time in a US prison. 488 00:42:44,729 --> 00:42:48,170 I HERE BY REQUEST 489 00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:50,136 A MEETING 490 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,160 AT THE U.S. EMBASSY 491 00:42:52,185 --> 00:42:56,560 In August 2011, I sent an email to the US Embassy of Iceland stating - 492 00:42:56,804 --> 00:43:02,499 that I had information regarding an ongoing criminal investigation in the US. 493 00:43:07,001 --> 00:43:09,597 I say to the man on the other line: 494 00:43:09,622 --> 00:43:13,463 "This is information regarding the investigation into WikiLeaks." 495 00:43:14,693 --> 00:43:19,159 He was like an automatic machine. "We have no investigation into that matter." 496 00:43:19,262 --> 00:43:22,339 I basically just told him, "We both know otherwise." 497 00:43:22,849 --> 00:43:25,831 "If you want to meet, I have some data you might be interested in." 498 00:43:25,856 --> 00:43:28,271 "If not, let's just end this." 499 00:43:28,335 --> 00:43:30,602 He asked me to come to the embassy. 500 00:43:30,627 --> 00:43:33,556 I thought I was going in for questioning. 501 00:43:33,815 --> 00:43:36,022 And he said, "Well, let's take a walk." 502 00:43:36,047 --> 00:43:42,067 We ended up in a hotel in Reykjavik where I was greeted by two federal agents. 503 00:43:42,092 --> 00:43:48,599 When I sat down, I realised you know, "Shit. What have I gotten myself into?!" 504 00:43:48,624 --> 00:43:50,910 On August 24th - 505 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,941 a plane with 7-9 FBI agents - 506 00:43:55,966 --> 00:43:57,775 landed in Reykjavik. 507 00:43:58,142 --> 00:44:03,479 The FBI wanted to interview Sigurdur Thordarson - 508 00:44:03,504 --> 00:44:06,669 and use him as an entrapment - 509 00:44:06,699 --> 00:44:09,523 by having him contact Julian Assange - 510 00:44:09,548 --> 00:44:14,973 in order to create proof to be used in a criminal case against WikiLeaks. 511 00:44:15,005 --> 00:44:19,618 The department head of the Ministry of the Interior contacted local policemen - 512 00:44:19,649 --> 00:44:24,742 and ordered them not to participate in the actions of the FBI. 513 00:44:24,853 --> 00:44:27,531 But the FBI continued speaking with... 514 00:44:27,623 --> 00:44:29,709 After five days, they said - 515 00:44:29,734 --> 00:44:34,124 that the Ministry of the Interior didn't want them to operate in Iceland anymore. 516 00:44:35,534 --> 00:44:40,879 Originally, they asked me, "Well, you can basically choose where you want to go." 517 00:44:41,066 --> 00:44:44,743 So I just said, "I've never been to Russia. Let's go to Moscow." 518 00:44:44,891 --> 00:44:48,011 They didn't find that funny. They were very serious about that. 519 00:44:48,036 --> 00:44:51,333 So they suggested to go to Denmark - 520 00:44:51,489 --> 00:44:55,803 and the following evening - 521 00:44:55,835 --> 00:45:00,338 we left with an aircraft from Iceland Express to Copenhagen Airport. 522 00:45:00,363 --> 00:45:02,448 RECEIPT FOR PROPERTY RECEIVED/RETURNED/RELEASED/SEIZED 523 00:45:02,472 --> 00:45:07,598 They kept questioning me as well as copying data from me. 524 00:45:09,114 --> 00:45:13,135 WikiLeaks' founder, Julian Assange, may have temporarily foiled police - 525 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,698 if he remains holed up in Ecuador's London embassy. 526 00:45:15,829 --> 00:45:19,262 But if he leaves, he could face arrest, say British authorities. 527 00:45:19,437 --> 00:45:22,015 I still today respect Julian. 528 00:45:23,202 --> 00:45:26,729 I don't consider him a friend anymore because we had a falling out - 529 00:45:26,834 --> 00:45:31,950 but I do understand his position. I understand what he's been through. Everything. 530 00:45:32,329 --> 00:45:35,592 That's why I'm not sitting here saying - 531 00:45:35,617 --> 00:45:39,450 he's a complete idiot or a maniac or something. 532 00:45:39,475 --> 00:45:43,583 Because I do understand his background. I understand it completely. 533 00:45:43,806 --> 00:45:47,261 Julian Assange is a great person, there's no doubt about it. 534 00:45:47,325 --> 00:45:50,616 He was just mixed up in some bad shit, you know? 535 00:45:53,830 --> 00:45:57,590 ICELAND 536 00:46:04,916 --> 00:46:06,436 REYKJAVIK GRAPEVINE 537 00:46:06,519 --> 00:46:13,545 "SIGGI HACKER" CHARGED WITH MULTIPLE FRAUD AND THEFT COUNTS 538 00:46:29,008 --> 00:46:30,423 Did he just hang up? 539 00:46:31,541 --> 00:46:35,858 - Are you calling Siggi? - No, Dan. To see if he knows where he is. 540 00:46:36,996 --> 00:46:38,952 - Yeah. Hello. - Hello. 541 00:46:39,093 --> 00:46:40,773 SIGGI'S PRIEST AND FRIEND 542 00:46:41,469 --> 00:46:43,309 - Can you hear me? - Did you get a hold of him? 543 00:46:43,408 --> 00:46:47,141 No, he told us he was leaving an hour ago - 544 00:46:47,166 --> 00:46:51,185 but we've been waiting since Thursday. I don't know what to believe. 545 00:46:51,673 --> 00:46:55,548 Yeah, that's Siggi. You can't really trust him. 546 00:46:56,466 --> 00:47:00,462 I'd like for this movie to end out with Siggi having a job - 547 00:47:00,487 --> 00:47:04,431 and a normal life, but... 548 00:47:06,084 --> 00:47:12,160 But it was the month I left Iceland. 549 00:47:14,419 --> 00:47:15,935 That's when the shit hit the fan. 550 00:47:21,950 --> 00:47:25,711 SONDERJYLLAND DENMARK 551 00:47:26,908 --> 00:47:32,547 My relationship with Siggi is a little reserved at the moment. 552 00:47:32,572 --> 00:47:34,430 It's hard for me to trust him. 553 00:47:34,455 --> 00:47:39,057 Sigurdur Ingi, 21, forged power of attorney, signatures - 554 00:47:39,089 --> 00:47:43,134 and bank statements to scam money and goods from individuals and companies. 555 00:47:43,159 --> 00:47:47,862 In addition, Siggi scammed three men out of ISK 2.5 million by falsely claiming - 556 00:47:47,887 --> 00:47:52,167 he would open bank accounts in their names at HSBC in Luxembourg. 557 00:47:52,192 --> 00:47:56,541 He's not an idiot. He understands the consequences - 558 00:47:56,566 --> 00:48:01,384 and knows what's right and wrong. He just can't control himself. 559 00:48:01,409 --> 00:48:03,265 So he's done it many times? 560 00:48:03,290 --> 00:48:08,001 There are a lot of different companies that they believe he's scammed. 561 00:48:08,026 --> 00:48:12,168 Rental cars for ISK 10 million, four laptops and nine iPhones are - 562 00:48:12,193 --> 00:48:17,664 among the items Thordarson is accused of scamming from shops and companies. 563 00:48:17,797 --> 00:48:21,547 I won't trivialize or excuse it - 564 00:48:21,572 --> 00:48:25,722 but people ask, "Why is he doing it?" 565 00:48:25,754 --> 00:48:28,934 And I reply, "What else has he got to do?" 566 00:48:34,654 --> 00:48:37,357 What can a criminal do in Iceland? You can't get a job. 567 00:48:37,389 --> 00:48:39,546 Everyone demands a clean criminal record. 568 00:48:40,477 --> 00:48:43,106 They call him a paedophile. Who'll hire a paedophile? 569 00:48:43,131 --> 00:48:47,428 He isn't a paedophile, but that doesn't matter. He's already been labelled. 570 00:48:47,453 --> 00:48:49,409 Everyone turns him down. 571 00:48:53,990 --> 00:48:57,295 That's why career criminals continue. Because we judge - 572 00:48:57,321 --> 00:49:01,083 and we don't know how to be Christians in a Christian country. 573 00:49:01,362 --> 00:49:04,327 We never give people a second chance. 574 00:49:12,118 --> 00:49:14,445 - So how have you been? - Very good. 575 00:49:14,470 --> 00:49:19,055 We wanted to pick up on everything from last time. 576 00:49:19,369 --> 00:49:21,268 Alright, we're almost there. 577 00:49:22,777 --> 00:49:27,525 Have you seen the new Netflix documentary The Puppet Master? 578 00:49:28,244 --> 00:49:30,178 It's quite interesting. 579 00:49:32,081 --> 00:49:36,858 You should watch another one as well which is also a kind of like a con artist. 580 00:49:36,883 --> 00:49:38,389 What's the plot? 581 00:49:38,414 --> 00:49:42,952 Well, the plot is that this guy connects with women on Tinder. 582 00:49:42,997 --> 00:49:43,997 Alright. 583 00:49:44,749 --> 00:49:48,505 And he has all these pictures of him in expensive cars... 584 00:49:48,530 --> 00:49:49,794 So do I! 585 00:49:50,464 --> 00:49:53,017 - Expensive watches. - Yes! 586 00:49:53,398 --> 00:49:54,820 How much did he get? 587 00:49:55,841 --> 00:50:00,435 - 10 million dollars. - What? How many did he scam? 588 00:50:00,604 --> 00:50:04,672 I mean, you don't get 10 million from a couple of ladies? 589 00:50:05,091 --> 00:50:10,827 Why are you interested in these documentaries dealing with con artists? 590 00:50:10,852 --> 00:50:12,998 I'm not going to answer that on camera. 591 00:50:14,484 --> 00:50:17,216 I think it's interesting to see - 592 00:50:17,919 --> 00:50:23,388 the behaviour of the human species in certain circumstances. 593 00:50:23,413 --> 00:50:28,391 What's going on in your head if you fall for a story like that? 594 00:50:29,740 --> 00:50:31,416 But you've done something similar? 595 00:50:33,617 --> 00:50:35,223 Not for ten years! 596 00:50:38,636 --> 00:50:42,457 So do you ever plan on being like a normal... 597 00:50:42,692 --> 00:50:45,334 Yeah, let's go to what normal is. 598 00:51:02,900 --> 00:51:07,605 SIGGI'S NEW LAWYER - So these are the records... 599 00:51:07,630 --> 00:51:11,275 for the pending criminal case against Siggi. 600 00:51:11,881 --> 00:51:14,342 This is a lot of documents. 601 00:51:14,410 --> 00:51:15,410 So... 602 00:51:15,771 --> 00:51:19,368 It will take some time to sift through it - 603 00:51:19,625 --> 00:51:22,937 and find what's relevant and what's not. 604 00:51:44,603 --> 00:51:46,698 VOICE OF SOREN, THE PRODUCER 605 00:51:46,729 --> 00:51:49,631 - We're filming with Siggi now. - Yes. 606 00:51:52,189 --> 00:51:54,772 And it's not easy to figure out the facts. 607 00:51:54,898 --> 00:51:55,906 No. 608 00:51:56,218 --> 00:52:00,402 So we've actually obtained the documents - 609 00:52:00,427 --> 00:52:04,739 from all of Siggi's court cases. 610 00:52:14,056 --> 00:52:16,670 - Have you seen this? - What is it? 611 00:52:17,262 --> 00:52:20,531 - It's all the boys. - A list. 612 00:52:23,605 --> 00:52:27,032 Listen to this. "I did not agree to meet to begin with." 613 00:52:27,972 --> 00:52:29,279 VOICE OF THOMAS THE PHOTOGRAPHER 614 00:52:29,304 --> 00:52:32,189 "I was just young and scared, but then he started to threaten me - 615 00:52:32,220 --> 00:52:35,292 and he was tempting me and deceiving me." 616 00:52:35,511 --> 00:52:39,554 "He mentions large sums of money, cars..." 617 00:52:39,614 --> 00:52:42,694 "He had a weapon, an electric gun, handcuffs - 618 00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:47,434 "- and a pistol and a bulletproof vest in the car." Pepper spray, Viagra. 619 00:52:47,472 --> 00:52:49,317 He stuns him and 620 00:52:50,410 --> 00:52:52,410 sprays him and stuff like that. 621 00:52:53,024 --> 00:52:56,488 I think I read somewhere - 622 00:52:57,061 --> 00:53:00,249 that he anally rapes him - 623 00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:06,109 while pressing the stun gun against him. 624 00:53:09,916 --> 00:53:11,785 That sounds awful. 625 00:53:55,845 --> 00:53:58,075 - Is it here? - Yeah. 626 00:54:18,751 --> 00:54:20,373 It's under the snow. 627 00:54:21,425 --> 00:54:22,958 It's under the snow? 628 00:54:36,518 --> 00:54:39,536 The possibility of getting closure is none. 629 00:54:39,561 --> 00:54:44,377 I am blamed for his death in the media. His parents blame me - 630 00:54:45,277 --> 00:54:49,488 and I wonder probably every single day - 631 00:54:49,519 --> 00:54:54,811 whether my actions had anything to do with him committing suicide. 632 00:54:55,686 --> 00:54:58,877 And what actions are you talking about, Siggi? 633 00:54:58,902 --> 00:55:04,611 I do wonder that our relationship and 634 00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:09,819 our arrangement could have brought something to him - 635 00:55:09,850 --> 00:55:15,099 that ultimately resulted in him jumping off the building. 636 00:55:15,124 --> 00:55:20,209 I was in regular communication with him while I was inside. 637 00:55:22,048 --> 00:55:25,900 There was never anything that suggested to me - 638 00:55:26,130 --> 00:55:28,260 that he was going to do something like that. 639 00:55:29,233 --> 00:55:31,432 But then why do you blame yourself? 640 00:55:34,105 --> 00:55:36,264 Honestly, I don't know. 641 00:55:37,224 --> 00:55:40,749 It's just a guilt, a feeling I have. What if? 642 00:55:41,345 --> 00:55:46,623 There's this big "what if". What if something I did resulted in this? 643 00:56:09,070 --> 00:56:14,068 SIGURDUR FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST 644 00:56:21,377 --> 00:56:25,331 I can't really explain this. 645 00:56:26,336 --> 00:56:32,577 Actually these accusations, they don't seem to really stand, you know, but... 646 00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:35,200 But... 647 00:56:37,742 --> 00:56:39,913 Really, one of the questions here is: 648 00:56:39,938 --> 00:56:44,247 Is Siggi sometimes taking blame for something he didn't do? 649 00:56:44,605 --> 00:56:46,002 You understand me? 650 00:56:47,235 --> 00:56:48,595 Just for the thrill of it? 651 00:56:48,620 --> 00:56:54,471 I doubt he does that in this case with the young man that committed suicide - 652 00:56:54,509 --> 00:57:01,738 but I was more concerned about maybe other, you know, financial affairs - 653 00:57:01,769 --> 00:57:07,508 that he maybe said, "Okay, I already have a criminal record." 654 00:57:08,176 --> 00:57:14,148 You can't explain why he does that, but we know people with these traits - 655 00:57:14,788 --> 00:57:20,341 they are not concerned about blame because they don't feel the guilt. 656 00:57:20,385 --> 00:57:23,062 That's the central core problem. 657 00:57:24,870 --> 00:57:28,157 LEIFUR POLICE DETECTIVE 658 00:57:30,759 --> 00:57:33,193 Tell us how you got suspicious of Siggi. 659 00:57:33,606 --> 00:57:40,300 So what we did was to track files from his phone company... 660 00:57:41,603 --> 00:57:48,252 where we got all his communication with people for the last year or so. 661 00:57:48,290 --> 00:57:53,131 "How much would you do for money?" That was a popular question. 662 00:57:53,156 --> 00:57:57,280 And they would go, "Well, I don't know, maybe a lot." 663 00:57:58,425 --> 00:58:02,802 And it evolved over to that question: 664 00:58:03,129 --> 00:58:05,780 "Would you fuck a goat?" 665 00:58:06,166 --> 00:58:10,634 "Or would you have a dwarf give you a blow job?" 666 00:58:11,656 --> 00:58:15,819 And they would say, "No, of course not, that's absurd." 667 00:58:15,844 --> 00:58:18,762 And he would show them the money, a screenshot - 668 00:58:18,793 --> 00:58:22,604 of his fake bank account somewhere in Switzerland. 669 00:58:23,854 --> 00:58:26,720 "Oh, he has a lot of money." 670 00:58:26,751 --> 00:58:31,039 He maybe offered to give them a Range Rover or whatever they fancied - 671 00:58:31,462 --> 00:58:35,789 but in the end there was no dwarf and there was no goat. 672 00:58:35,814 --> 00:58:37,178 It was just him, 673 00:58:37,925 --> 00:58:40,422 and he would substitute the goat - 674 00:58:40,553 --> 00:58:44,185 or the dwarf and tell them, "Oh, I couldn't get it, so it's just me." 675 00:58:44,210 --> 00:58:48,127 "But here's the ten millions." And they would go for it. 676 00:58:48,361 --> 00:58:52,360 Some of them for dozens of times. 677 00:58:52,592 --> 00:58:56,503 And they were always thinking, "I will get the money today - 678 00:58:57,141 --> 00:58:58,968 or tonight I will get the money." 679 00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:03,493 But as far as I know, they never got anything. 680 00:59:04,442 --> 00:59:06,780 He just sexually abused them. 681 00:59:08,062 --> 00:59:13,626 There were videos where he was using pepper spray on some of the boys. 682 00:59:13,663 --> 00:59:16,237 Handcuffing them to something - 683 00:59:16,375 --> 00:59:20,300 and pepper-spraying them in the face. 684 00:59:20,530 --> 00:59:24,134 And having it on tape. 685 00:59:24,184 --> 00:59:28,090 And you could hear him laughing in the background - 686 00:59:28,546 --> 00:59:29,981 like he was enjoying - 687 00:59:30,557 --> 00:59:35,457 when they were in agony from the pepper spray. 688 00:59:56,101 --> 01:00:00,130 I have never been under investigation or convicted or participated - 689 01:00:00,155 --> 01:00:04,036 in any acts of sexual violence or rape - 690 01:00:04,060 --> 01:00:07,440 or paedophilia or anything like that. 691 01:00:07,604 --> 01:00:12,233 But why would you video-film the pepper-spray thing? 692 01:00:13,498 --> 01:00:17,762 Alright, I'll show you something, just to make my argument. 693 01:00:18,063 --> 01:00:21,277 Alright, here you see. This is my drop box. 694 01:00:21,881 --> 01:00:26,549 Here you can see Mace, Mace, Mace, Mace and Mace. 695 01:00:26,574 --> 01:00:31,027 Which are the videos of different individuals getting the Mace. 696 01:00:31,052 --> 01:00:34,925 Shall we open one? Let's see if I'm raping someone. 697 01:00:36,447 --> 01:00:40,071 This is taken 11 years ago. 698 01:00:45,988 --> 01:00:47,687 Don't take pictures. 699 01:00:49,993 --> 01:00:54,431 - Who is the bigger wimp? - How long will it last? 700 01:00:58,126 --> 01:01:00,200 Should we open another one? 701 01:01:03,490 --> 01:01:05,295 Should we open another one? 702 01:01:26,408 --> 01:01:28,698 - Is he handcuffed? - Yes. 703 01:01:28,940 --> 01:01:31,565 - Why? - Don't ask me. 704 01:01:32,322 --> 01:01:34,002 They were not mine. 705 01:01:52,819 --> 01:01:55,867 As you can see, we're not in a bedroom having sex. 706 01:01:56,860 --> 01:02:01,439 So for me, there's not really anything to hide anymore. 707 01:02:01,464 --> 01:02:03,637 I already pled guilty to it. 708 01:02:05,314 --> 01:02:07,369 But I really need to go. 709 01:02:11,088 --> 01:02:15,877 The interesting part is that he's admitting it, you understand? 710 01:02:15,902 --> 01:02:19,598 Many of these guys, they don't admit, but he's admitting. 711 01:02:19,623 --> 01:02:22,748 He's telling me the truth, almost the truth, you know? 712 01:02:22,773 --> 01:02:25,667 That is very special with his case. 713 01:02:27,814 --> 01:02:29,864 So even though he lies - 714 01:02:30,570 --> 01:02:35,014 he tells the truth also, but not the whole truth. 715 01:02:55,030 --> 01:02:59,080 ÓLLI BJÖRN ONE OF THE NINE BOYS 716 01:03:02,804 --> 01:03:05,281 I was really afraid of him. 717 01:03:06,296 --> 01:03:10,695 All the stuff he had in his car. 718 01:03:11,394 --> 01:03:16,608 His stun gun, his handcuffs. 719 01:03:16,821 --> 01:03:20,993 All kinds of stuff, which he had shown me. 720 01:03:24,394 --> 01:03:28,160 So I always thought: 721 01:03:29,707 --> 01:03:32,380 "What happens next time if I say no to him?" 722 01:04:13,382 --> 01:04:15,558 When I was 15 years old - 723 01:04:16,090 --> 01:04:19,975 he contacted me - 724 01:04:20,072 --> 01:04:24,418 and more than 50 times - 725 01:04:25,192 --> 01:04:30,721 he forced me to sexual activities. 726 01:04:30,746 --> 01:04:36,665 In return, he promised me money, phones - 727 01:04:37,435 --> 01:04:40,893 cars and computers. 728 01:04:53,968 --> 01:04:56,845 We came to this place together. 729 01:05:05,746 --> 01:05:09,800 It's difficult to think back on. 730 01:05:12,312 --> 01:05:14,553 I knew what was going to happen. 731 01:05:16,211 --> 01:05:22,358 But I didn't know that he would film the things he did to me. 732 01:05:24,121 --> 01:05:28,169 I never thought about it before. What did he do with the video? 733 01:05:28,194 --> 01:05:35,276 Did he send it to someone? Is he keeping it somewhere? 734 01:05:35,862 --> 01:05:38,153 There are many questions. 735 01:05:53,857 --> 01:05:58,353 We were to meet up like we used to. 736 01:06:00,871 --> 01:06:05,436 But I intended to tell him that it had to end. 737 01:06:05,461 --> 01:06:07,972 I couldn't take it any longer. 738 01:06:09,319 --> 01:06:14,768 He didn't like that because our contract wasn't fulfilled. 739 01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:17,776 And... 740 01:06:19,854 --> 01:06:24,412 Then he used the stun gun and said, "We must fulfil the contract." 741 01:06:29,235 --> 01:06:32,236 So he stunned me. 742 01:06:33,233 --> 01:06:36,211 He only used it once - 743 01:06:36,980 --> 01:06:38,753 but it really hurt. 744 01:06:39,544 --> 01:06:43,602 Then I just thought, "I'm not going to say no." 745 01:06:44,565 --> 01:06:47,983 "Let's just get it over with - 746 01:06:48,146 --> 01:06:51,387 and after that contract, it's over." 747 01:06:58,541 --> 01:07:02,212 In my experience, I lost three years of my life. 748 01:07:02,812 --> 01:07:07,144 You don't remember it because you don't want to remember it. 749 01:07:16,102 --> 01:07:19,379 KEY WITNESS IN ASSANGE CASE ADMITS TO LIES IN INDICTMENT 750 01:07:19,404 --> 01:07:24,844 Now I'm going to invite Bjartmar, who's put out the latest scoop - 751 01:07:24,869 --> 01:07:28,034 in relation to the Assange case - 752 01:07:28,059 --> 01:07:34,334 to tell us a bit about the key witness in the FBI's prosecution against Assange. 753 01:07:34,359 --> 01:07:37,119 Why he's important, who he is - 754 01:07:37,144 --> 01:07:40,667 and what Bjartmar found out about his testimony and about him. 755 01:07:45,053 --> 01:07:46,413 Thank you for that. 756 01:07:46,438 --> 01:07:51,096 Mr. Thordarson plays a huge role in the case against him - 757 01:07:51,121 --> 01:07:56,378 because he is the main witness in transforming Julian from a journalist - 758 01:07:56,403 --> 01:08:00,876 to a hacker. That's why his testimony is so important. 759 01:08:01,093 --> 01:08:04,506 So it makes you wonder that the only individual - 760 01:08:04,597 --> 01:08:10,488 who actually the FBI could put in writing with his testimony - 761 01:08:10,513 --> 01:08:13,988 that Julian Assange was a hacker not a journalist... 762 01:08:14,761 --> 01:08:16,858 It makes you wonder how strong the case is - 763 01:08:16,883 --> 01:08:19,964 if you have to find a con artist and a paedophile to do so. 764 01:08:20,751 --> 01:08:23,391 So it's... 765 01:08:47,431 --> 01:08:49,800 So, since we spoke last - 766 01:08:49,825 --> 01:08:51,686 SIGGI'S LAWYER 767 01:08:51,711 --> 01:08:55,126 Siggi has been detained by the police - 768 01:08:55,657 --> 01:08:59,068 and is currently in custody. 769 01:09:00,068 --> 01:09:08,009 He is suspected of fraud and financial crimes. 770 01:09:16,828 --> 01:09:19,903 "SIGGI THORDARSON - ALSO KNOWN UNDER THE MONIKER "SIGGI THE HACKER" - 771 01:09:19,970 --> 01:09:23,912 WAS JAILED IN ICELAND AFTER AN ONGOING CRIME SPREE" 772 01:09:29,818 --> 01:09:32,421 LITLA HRAUN PRISON ICELAND 773 01:09:37,366 --> 01:09:39,369 - Hello? - Hi. 774 01:09:39,703 --> 01:09:40,925 Hi Siggi. 775 01:09:46,958 --> 01:09:52,593 The police have arrested me on the counts of corporate scams. 776 01:09:52,618 --> 01:09:54,193 What are the charges? 777 01:09:54,787 --> 01:10:00,583 The charges are money laundering and corporate scam or corporate fraud. 778 01:10:02,135 --> 01:10:03,619 Are you guilty? 779 01:10:04,776 --> 01:10:07,167 To some extent, yes. 780 01:10:08,193 --> 01:10:13,654 We talked to your lawyer earlier today. He's been in contact with the FBI. 781 01:10:13,679 --> 01:10:15,297 Yes, that's correct. 782 01:10:15,322 --> 01:10:18,960 Regarding the case against Julian Assange. 783 01:10:20,842 --> 01:10:23,592 ECUADORIAN EMBASSY LONDON 784 01:10:47,076 --> 01:10:54,081 The two-day trial of Julian Assange began in London today. 785 01:10:54,106 --> 01:10:56,226 Kristinn Hrafnsson, editor of WikiLeaks - 786 01:10:56,251 --> 01:11:01,637 told Assange's supporters this morning that his health and life were at stake. 787 01:11:01,662 --> 01:11:03,175 EDITOR-IN-CHIEF - WIKILEAKS 788 01:11:03,202 --> 01:11:08,293 Today, this court will hear the arguments, or so-called arguments, of the US lawyers. 789 01:11:08,318 --> 01:11:12,346 Kristinn says they will fight the extradition tooth and nail - 790 01:11:12,371 --> 01:11:17,411 claiming that a dangerous precedent could be set for the free press. 791 01:11:17,460 --> 01:11:22,966 Free, free, free Assange! 792 01:11:26,785 --> 01:11:32,066 Do you see the irony in both you and Julian being in prison at the moment? 793 01:11:32,638 --> 01:11:36,173 Yes, the irony is out there - 794 01:11:36,204 --> 01:11:41,600 but the difference is that I do confess the crimes I have committed. 795 01:11:46,422 --> 01:11:51,538 Have you read the articles that Bjartmar has been writing about you? 796 01:11:51,590 --> 01:11:53,585 KEY WITNESS INA SSANGE CASE ADMITS TO LIES IN INDICTMENT 797 01:11:53,609 --> 01:11:57,331 - I read some of them, yes. - What do you think of them? 798 01:11:58,002 --> 01:12:00,847 He has no evidence that I lied to the FBI. 799 01:12:01,290 --> 01:12:04,608 How does it make you feel that he's published these articles - 800 01:12:04,633 --> 01:12:08,768 and is going around the media circuit, saying that he exposed you? 801 01:12:10,735 --> 01:12:12,161 It's ridiculous. 802 01:12:12,532 --> 01:12:15,073 I did not lie to the FBI at any point. 803 01:12:20,746 --> 01:12:22,919 I'm Bjartmar Alexandersson - 804 01:12:22,944 --> 01:12:26,119 investigative journalist for Stundin, a newspaper in Iceland. 805 01:12:26,144 --> 01:12:30,205 Why did he confess, and why did he come to you? 806 01:12:30,334 --> 01:12:31,954 I have no idea. 807 01:12:32,050 --> 01:12:34,437 I already have tons of evidence - 808 01:12:34,462 --> 01:12:38,165 so he might have been put in a corner where he couldn't get out. 809 01:12:38,190 --> 01:12:41,032 Thank you so much, and what you... 810 01:12:41,323 --> 01:12:46,075 - Just doing my job. - I know, but it's immense. 811 01:12:46,649 --> 01:12:50,503 I hope many other journalists are doing the same. And they are. 812 01:12:50,528 --> 01:12:53,300 I've talked to Bjartmar. 813 01:12:53,325 --> 01:12:54,325 Yeah? 814 01:12:54,386 --> 01:13:00,022 He keeps saying he wants to participate and help us. 815 01:13:00,047 --> 01:13:05,633 But in order for his editor-in-chief to sign off on it - 816 01:13:05,658 --> 01:13:09,577 Kristinn needs to approve it. 817 01:13:09,731 --> 01:13:14,464 Why does Kristinn need to approve Bjartmar's participation? 818 01:13:14,626 --> 01:13:16,392 Yes. That's a good question. 819 01:13:16,417 --> 01:13:20,220 It shows that someone, at all costs, wants to maintain - 820 01:13:20,245 --> 01:13:23,937 the narrative that Siggi lied to the FBI. 821 01:13:25,746 --> 01:13:27,722 There was no haking. 822 01:13:28,392 --> 01:13:30,954 There was no conspiracy. 823 01:13:31,304 --> 01:13:35,198 The truth is this is journalism on trial. 824 01:13:36,268 --> 01:13:39,238 This is the fate and the future of journalism. 825 01:13:39,399 --> 01:13:41,541 Free Julian Assange! 826 01:13:41,610 --> 01:13:44,143 THORDARSON LIED! 827 01:13:47,127 --> 01:13:51,063 You didn't quote him once in that article. Was that one of the conditions he gave? 828 01:13:51,141 --> 01:13:52,861 No, no, no. I mean, he... 829 01:13:52,886 --> 01:13:55,087 Because either he's lying to the FBI, 830 01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:58,544 or the FBI knew he was lying and went with it anyway. 831 01:13:58,569 --> 01:14:02,729 - Or he was lying to you. - He could be lying to me and the FBI. 832 01:14:02,754 --> 01:14:04,979 He's a known liar, so we don't know - 833 01:14:05,004 --> 01:14:07,905 but I have to take it he's telling me the right thing. 834 01:14:07,939 --> 01:14:08,939 Yeah... 835 01:14:09,672 --> 01:14:11,125 The circus. 836 01:14:11,751 --> 01:14:13,298 The WikiLeaks circus. 837 01:14:16,630 --> 01:14:19,728 KORMÁKUR JOURNALIST 838 01:14:22,909 --> 01:14:28,544 So I got hired by WikiLeaks in late February. 839 01:14:29,291 --> 01:14:32,543 Kristinn Hrafnsson contacted me - 840 01:14:32,568 --> 01:14:37,126 and asked me if I was interested in doing a project for a couple of months. 841 01:14:37,459 --> 01:14:40,127 He wanted me "to find dirt on Siggi." 842 01:14:40,643 --> 01:14:44,108 "I'M NOT A MOSNTER" SIGGA HACKER BANNED FROM SWIMMING 843 01:14:44,893 --> 01:14:49,023 I started my research by finding out - 844 01:14:49,181 --> 01:14:54,777 what companies were registered to Siggi - 845 01:14:54,802 --> 01:14:57,866 and everyone connected to him. 846 01:14:57,891 --> 01:15:03,510 And then a jam-packed mailbox awaited us. 847 01:15:04,483 --> 01:15:09,610 I was working with another journalist, Bjartmar. 848 01:15:09,635 --> 01:15:16,713 He didn't hesitate to make phone calls and meet with people. 849 01:15:16,752 --> 01:15:21,890 He reminded me of another journalist I've worked with. He had guts. 850 01:15:21,915 --> 01:15:25,057 When it came to writing, I had to teach him a few things. 851 01:15:25,977 --> 01:15:28,759 If I was organising stuff for WikiLeaks - 852 01:15:28,784 --> 01:15:31,844 I would make sure that nothing - 853 01:15:32,211 --> 01:15:35,074 that is then used for the defence - 854 01:15:35,099 --> 01:15:37,626 could be compromised in any way. 855 01:15:38,225 --> 01:15:44,571 And so if you're a journalist and you are an investigative journalist - 856 01:15:44,603 --> 01:15:48,080 you have to make sure you're independent from any influence. 857 01:15:49,323 --> 01:15:52,329 That's the key. Be independent. 858 01:16:05,790 --> 01:16:10,353 SIGGI RELEASED FROM CUSTODY 859 01:16:22,296 --> 01:16:26,033 LONDON ENGLAND 860 01:16:43,675 --> 01:16:45,934 - Sound? - Yes, we're rolling. 861 01:16:45,959 --> 01:16:46,959 Ok. 862 01:16:47,508 --> 01:16:49,507 Well, first off, Siggi. 863 01:16:50,054 --> 01:16:55,569 This will be the last bit of filming we'll be doing with you. 864 01:16:55,594 --> 01:16:56,609 Okay. 865 01:17:01,890 --> 01:17:06,337 You know who was speaking at that Free Assange event in London. 866 01:17:07,058 --> 01:17:08,755 - Bjartmar. - Yes. 867 01:17:09,706 --> 01:17:13,295 And Kristinn hired Bjartmar to dig up dirt on you. 868 01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:17,897 And Kristjón Kormákur was paid to work on this together with him. 869 01:17:17,922 --> 01:17:19,574 - Did you know that? - No. 870 01:17:20,511 --> 01:17:22,640 - Will that be in the movie? - Yes. 871 01:17:22,665 --> 01:17:23,819 Good. 872 01:17:24,731 --> 01:17:29,814 You're hiring investigative journalists - 873 01:17:29,839 --> 01:17:35,546 to dig dirt on your former volunteers or staff. 874 01:17:36,059 --> 01:17:39,468 So basically, what WikiLeaks would be doing - 875 01:17:39,736 --> 01:17:43,205 is exactly the same as the people they're publishing about. 876 01:17:44,652 --> 01:17:45,773 It's... 877 01:17:47,329 --> 01:17:51,543 interesting. Very interesting. 878 01:17:55,573 --> 01:17:57,687 Siggi, have you ever lied to me? 879 01:17:58,246 --> 01:17:59,436 Probably. 880 01:18:03,353 --> 01:18:06,268 I don't remember the moment. 881 01:18:07,361 --> 01:18:09,145 But you think you have? 882 01:18:10,660 --> 01:18:14,669 It wouldn't be a substantial lie but a white lie like, "How are you?" 883 01:18:14,694 --> 01:18:15,961 "I'm good, how are you?" 884 01:18:16,304 --> 01:18:20,003 No, that's your masks that you put on. That's different. 885 01:18:20,028 --> 01:18:22,383 That's a white lie, though. It's a lie. 886 01:18:23,095 --> 01:18:25,318 You know what I mean. That's fine with me. 887 01:18:25,343 --> 01:18:30,244 I haven't lied about anything substantial in regards to this project - 888 01:18:30,282 --> 01:18:33,099 or any aspects, that I recall. 889 01:18:36,112 --> 01:18:40,321 We also wanted to talk to you about the sexual abuse cases. 890 01:18:41,135 --> 01:18:43,904 Did you ever offer money to have sex with a goat? 891 01:18:44,322 --> 01:18:46,151 - What? - With a goat? 892 01:18:47,077 --> 01:18:50,446 That might have been a conversation but nothing seriously. 893 01:18:50,561 --> 01:18:51,561 Ok. 894 01:18:52,369 --> 01:18:55,156 Is it something that you've asked other boys as well? 895 01:18:55,705 --> 01:19:00,102 This has come up in other discussions, or a dwarf. 896 01:19:00,528 --> 01:19:05,393 So is that your initial way of approaching the boys? 897 01:19:05,430 --> 01:19:09,088 - Is that kind of like the pattern? - Basically, yeah. 898 01:19:09,740 --> 01:19:13,802 This was me basically asking if they would do sexual stuff 899 01:19:14,902 --> 01:19:16,315 for money - 900 01:19:16,853 --> 01:19:20,860 and a way for me to find out... 901 01:19:20,885 --> 01:19:24,820 If they would say yes, I would know - 902 01:19:24,845 --> 01:19:28,264 there was a chance they would have sex with me for payment. 903 01:19:28,289 --> 01:19:31,185 And therefore I could hide my homosexuality. 904 01:19:33,436 --> 01:19:37,608 But, Siggi, why wouldn't you just start by saying that? 905 01:19:37,633 --> 01:19:41,660 Why go to the dwarf and the goat thing? What was the idea behind that? 906 01:19:41,967 --> 01:19:45,171 Just to see if they would say yes or no. 907 01:19:46,146 --> 01:19:48,844 If they would say yes, I would know - 908 01:19:48,869 --> 01:19:54,496 they were acceptable to sexual favours towards a man. 909 01:19:57,483 --> 01:20:02,328 That's something you slowly found out and then it became like an approach? 910 01:20:02,353 --> 01:20:03,392 Yeah. 911 01:20:03,417 --> 01:20:05,928 It was my way of hitting on them. 912 01:20:08,168 --> 01:20:13,302 But still, boys, they are all today scared of you. 913 01:20:13,582 --> 01:20:14,916 Why? 914 01:20:19,406 --> 01:20:22,674 I've never used violence in my life, not once. 915 01:20:23,565 --> 01:20:25,967 - They're saying you did. - No. 916 01:20:27,797 --> 01:20:33,247 If you look at the psychological side of it. 917 01:20:33,272 --> 01:20:36,693 Why would they say that? Because they're ashamed. 918 01:20:36,956 --> 01:20:42,934 They're ashamed of having had sex with me, which I think is very clear by now. 919 01:20:43,844 --> 01:20:49,457 So they use past experiences to say, "Yes, he used that gun." 920 01:20:49,482 --> 01:20:55,039 Because a lot of people knew I had it, so it makes sense to say that. 921 01:20:59,440 --> 01:21:02,786 So what you're saying is, you never threatened anybody. 922 01:21:02,811 --> 01:21:07,648 You didn't force yourself on anybody, you didn't have your way with anybody. 923 01:21:08,922 --> 01:21:12,317 And all the nine boys are pretty much just ashamed - 924 01:21:12,342 --> 01:21:16,439 and that's why they're coming up with this story independently - 925 01:21:16,464 --> 01:21:19,655 that actually in fact makes you a victim. 926 01:21:22,715 --> 01:21:26,401 No, I disagree with that - 927 01:21:26,544 --> 01:21:29,713 because I pled guilty to all of the cases. 928 01:21:30,278 --> 01:21:32,626 And none of them involved this stuff. 929 01:21:32,972 --> 01:21:36,750 None of the charges were rape. 930 01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:39,524 None of the charges were violence. 931 01:21:39,697 --> 01:21:42,715 The charges were sex for prostitution - 932 01:21:42,746 --> 01:21:46,666 no, sex on solicitation or prostitution. 933 01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:53,046 It seems like you're more focused on what the law says - 934 01:21:53,071 --> 01:21:54,670 but I'm trying to search... 935 01:21:55,810 --> 01:21:57,963 how you feel about it. 936 01:21:59,719 --> 01:22:03,186 - Does that affect you in any way? - It does. 937 01:22:04,753 --> 01:22:06,201 How does it affect you? 938 01:22:07,048 --> 01:22:13,141 It saddens me that this is the impact that I had on someone. 939 01:22:13,655 --> 01:22:17,627 I have nothing to do in my position except to apologize. 940 01:22:19,865 --> 01:22:22,525 A little more than that I can't do. 941 01:22:28,974 --> 01:22:34,000 You're saying that you feel sorry. 942 01:22:34,647 --> 01:22:38,481 But sometimes I have the suspicion that that's because you... 943 01:22:39,418 --> 01:22:42,124 you know that's what you're supposed to say. 944 01:22:42,698 --> 01:22:44,947 How am I supposed to act? 945 01:22:47,889 --> 01:22:49,694 - No, I'm asking. - I don't know that. 946 01:22:50,178 --> 01:22:53,823 What's the normal way of feeling sorry? 947 01:22:54,315 --> 01:22:57,249 What's the normal way of feeling sad? 948 01:22:58,145 --> 01:23:03,001 You don't know the answer to that question? You really don't know? 949 01:23:03,026 --> 01:23:04,394 How to act? 950 01:23:05,307 --> 01:23:06,340 No. 951 01:23:10,112 --> 01:23:13,519 There isn't anything I've read - 952 01:23:14,126 --> 01:23:16,734 that says how love is... 953 01:23:18,456 --> 01:23:22,458 or anger or sadness. 954 01:23:23,868 --> 01:23:26,899 There's no guide - 955 01:23:27,442 --> 01:23:31,366 that says how to feel when you're loved or love someone. 956 01:23:33,217 --> 01:23:36,680 It's just... I can't explain it. 957 01:23:37,167 --> 01:23:41,791 You say that you're puzzled because there's no guide? 958 01:23:48,072 --> 01:23:49,075 Yeah. 959 01:23:53,522 --> 01:23:56,253 But what is it that you're looking for? 960 01:24:03,073 --> 01:24:04,736 I don't have the answer. 961 01:24:09,259 --> 01:24:12,557 Are you still trying to find answers? 962 01:24:19,415 --> 01:24:20,415 Yeah. 963 01:24:26,839 --> 01:24:28,281 I don't have that. 964 01:24:38,189 --> 01:24:41,091 Do you think you can find them, or do you think - 965 01:24:41,589 --> 01:24:45,502 someone can help you find out who you are - 966 01:24:45,842 --> 01:24:48,351 and understand yourself better? 967 01:24:48,376 --> 01:24:49,569 I don't know. 968 01:24:53,548 --> 01:24:54,880 No idea. 969 01:25:15,470 --> 01:25:17,444 I've been here before. 970 01:25:17,613 --> 01:25:20,415 Actually 11 years ago. 971 01:25:21,019 --> 01:25:27,993 And that was when Julian was going to court for his extradition cases. 972 01:25:28,018 --> 01:25:34,419 But at the time, we had hundreds of photographers and journalists here - 973 01:25:34,444 --> 01:25:36,603 taking photos and videos of us. 974 01:25:36,628 --> 01:25:42,522 It was quite interesting to be a part of it. 975 01:25:43,475 --> 01:25:46,755 Being all of a sudden in the centre of the eye of the world. 976 01:25:48,115 --> 01:25:49,897 This is in a way... 977 01:25:52,463 --> 01:25:54,200 where the journey started. 978 01:25:56,995 --> 01:25:59,962 But this isn't the place where the journey stops. 979 01:26:01,445 --> 01:26:02,991 Unfortunately. 980 01:26:04,038 --> 01:26:05,568 I wish it would. 981 01:26:09,003 --> 01:26:10,933 So I could just... 982 01:26:14,057 --> 01:26:15,925 move on with my life. 983 01:26:29,672 --> 01:26:34,492 We are curious to know... What are your plans? 984 01:26:35,097 --> 01:26:36,213 Nothing. 985 01:26:36,926 --> 01:26:41,126 Just embrace the normality. 986 01:26:42,524 --> 01:26:43,920 What does that mean? 987 01:26:45,108 --> 01:26:47,815 Just to be a regular citizen - 988 01:26:48,520 --> 01:26:52,647 going to the grocery stores and buying food to cook. 989 01:26:53,780 --> 01:26:55,635 Going to... yeah. 990 01:26:56,537 --> 01:26:58,478 I don't have an answer for you. 991 01:27:07,539 --> 01:27:08,848 Ok. 992 01:27:14,070 --> 01:27:15,425 Alright, Siggi? 993 01:27:17,470 --> 01:27:18,476 Yeah. 994 01:27:21,350 --> 01:27:22,924 Right, right. Yeah! 995 01:27:58,601 --> 01:28:00,472 WikiLeaks did not wish to participate in this documentary, 996 01:28:00,496 --> 01:28:02,341 but their editor-in-chief, Kristinn Hrafnsson, writes in an email: 997 01:28:02,365 --> 01:28:04,845 "While WikiLeaks refrains from commenting on the sources of its publications, 998 01:28:04,869 --> 01:28:07,655 it's significant to highlight that the most impactful revelations of the past decade 999 01:28:07,679 --> 01:28:09,666 and a half primarily originate from whistleblowers". 1000 01:28:09,690 --> 01:28:13,343 "The suggestion that wikileaks would employ someone to 'dig up dirt' against Thordarson borders on the ludicrous, 1001 01:28:13,367 --> 01:28:16,640 given his court-certified sociopathy and criminal history as a fraudster and a sexual predator. 1002 01:28:16,664 --> 01:28:19,732 Kristján Kormákur was contracted for a short period to scrutinize certain aspects 1003 01:28:19,756 --> 01:28:23,543 pertaining to Julian Assange's indictment, which solely relied on Thordarson's testimonies. 1004 01:28:23,597 --> 01:28:26,454 Although Kormákur had the discretion to use this information for a journalistic piece, 1005 01:28:26,478 --> 01:28:28,027 "it was never mandated." 1006 01:28:28,067 --> 01:28:29,667 Regarding this documentary, Hrafnsson writes: 1007 01:28:29,691 --> 01:28:31,644 "This narrative conveniently aligns with the propaganda serving the ongoing US persecution 1008 01:28:31,668 --> 01:28:33,659 against Julian Assange and WikiLeaks." 1009 01:28:33,744 --> 01:28:36,338 Julian Assange has not responded to our inquiry regarding the surveillance of WikiLeaks staff. 1010 01:28:36,362 --> 01:28:39,058 The claims made by Kormákur have been presented to Bjartmar Alexandersson 1011 01:28:39,082 --> 01:28:41,360 and to Stundin/Heimildin's editor-in-chief, Jon Trausti, 1012 01:28:41,384 --> 01:28:43,379 but none of them have responded to our inquiries. 82682

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