Original subtitles

We commend to your care, oh, Lord,

the spirit of Matthew Snyder,

who died protecting others as a brave Marine

in the war with Iraq,

so that others might live.

God hates fags!

Ready!

Aim!

Fire!

The wage of sin is death!

Ready. Aim. Fire!

God killed your son!

God killed your son!

I'm Judy Sheindlin. Before I was a judge on TV,

I was a judge in New York City for 15 years,

and a lawyer for 17 years before that.

While serving on both sides of the bench,

I learned that justice doesn't always end up feeling...

just.

Sometimes, the impact of one decision by a police officer,

a lawyer, or even a judge can change the way justice is delivered.

We're going to demonstrate this by taking landmark cases

from actual crimes committed by real people,

and we'll recreate them with our trial lawyers,

and yours truly as the trial judge.

While we're not going to recreate the trials verbatim,

all the court's ultimate decisions are accurate.

It will be up to you to decide whether the case was fair

and the outcome just.

Real cases, actual lawyers,

surprising verdicts,

Justice on Trial.

This episode of Justice on Trial touches the lives of everyone.

It involves free speech.

As you'll see, cases about free speech can be, well, pretty emotional.

The First Amendment of the Constitution

contains ten simple words on the subject of free speech.

Quote, "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech."

That's it. No definition of what free speech is.

Defining protected speech has been left to the courts.

You probably know some examples of speech that isn't protected,

such as threats of violence.

But what about hate speech?

And what about speech that causes emotional distress?

That's what this case tries to define.

But as you'll see, it isn't easy.

Members of the jury,

the Plaintiff, Albert Snyder,

is the father of a United States soldier

who was killed while serving his country in Iraq.

During his son's funeral, the Defendants,

Fred Phelps, who is the founder of the Westboro Baptist Church

and his daughters led a protest outside of that funeral.

The Plaintiff alleges that he suffered extreme emotional distress

as a result of the Defendant's words and seeks damages.

The Defendant argues that, although perhaps hurtful,

his speech and acts are protected

by the First Amendment's freedom of speech.

You must decide.

Counsel, note your appearance.

Good morning, Your Honor. Larry Bakman

on behalf of the Plaintiff Albert Snyder, who is present in court.

And for the Defendants Fred Phelps, Shirley Phelps-Roper

and the Westboro Baptist Church, I'm Dan Mentzer.

-Good morning, Your Honor. -Good morning.

Counsel, if you wish to make an opening statement,

you may do so now.

Morning, members of the jury.

This is my opportunity to let the jury know

where I will be going with the Plaintiff's case.

The Defense is going to argue to you

that the speech undertaken by his clients

were protected by the First Amendment.

Our position is, that's simply not true. This is hate speech.

Albert in this case just buried his son.

He turns on the news immediately after the funeral,

and this is what he hears.

The wage of sin is death!

Another military funeral has been interrupted

by the ultra-conservative Westboro Baptist Church.

The wage of sin is death!

Why are you protesting at the funeral of Matthew Snyder,

a decorated Marine who was tragically killed in Iraq?

The US military is being punished by God

for letting in gays.

God Himself struck that boy down

to show us that homosexuality is a sin

punishable by death.

The wage of sin is death!

These people here had absolutely no respect,

no consideration of how offensive their words were.

And because of that, my client is entitled to recover

for the intentional infliction of emotional harm

that their conduct caused. Thank you.

Mr. Mentzer?

Thank you, Your Honor.

Picketing the funeral of Matthew Snyder, Albert Snyder's son,

was not a game to my clients. They knew by picketing,

they would be placing themselves in great danger

by a lot of people who don't like the content of what they're saying.

So, why would they do it?

That's because they believe that the US military,

by allowing homosexual and gay servicemen and women into its ranks,

is actually placing the military itself in danger.

It was not directed at Matthew Snyder, but at the military in general.

And that's a key distinction here.

Because ladies and gentlemen, in this country,

the First Amendment guarantees us the right.

We can voice our opinion on matters of public concern

without fear of being sued because it's that important.

So, we're allowed to say the things,

the offensive, the hurtful, the homophobic language

used by my clients,

they're allowed to do that, no matter how disturbing,

no matter how offensive those comments might be.

Thank you.

Mr. Bakman, please call your first witness.

I call Fred Phelps.

Swear the witness, please.

Raise your right hand, please.

Do you swear to tell the truth in these matters today?

-I do. -Thank you.

You may inquire, sir.

Thank you, Your Honor. You run the Westboro Baptist Church,

do you not?

Yes.

And part and parcel of your teachings

is to teach homophobic remarks to your congregation, correct?

No, it is not. We teach religion.

Well, did you teach religion on March 10th,

when you traveled from Kansas to Maryland

to picket Matthew Snyder's funeral?

Yes, sir, we were teaching religion.

Ah, excuse me, folks. Are you with the Westboro Baptist Church?

That's right, Officer. Here to do God's work.

Right, right.

Can I see your permit?

Here you are.

Well, looks legit. Let's go over some ground rules.

The only rule we need to concern ourselves with

is the rule of God.

And it is He and only He that I answer to.

Actually, as an officer of the law here in the state of Maryland,

you'll answer to me. And if you or one of your lemmings

comes within just an inch of the 1,000-foot mandated distance

between here and that boy's funeral, I'll arrest all of you immediately.

How's that sound, Padre?

We understand, Officer.

We've exercised our right to free speech as American citizens hundreds of times.

And just as Moses did at the base of Mount Sinai,

we will deliver Almighty God's message to the sinners of the world.

I'm sure you will.

And by the way, did you bring signs with you?

Yes, we did.

You made those signs up at the Westboro Church,

-is that right? -Yes.

Proud of those signs, aren't you?

Yes, sir.

And you didn't go to Maryland alone, did you?

-Nope. -You took your daughters?

Yes.

And four of your grandchildren, is that right?

Yes.

And when you picket the military funerals,

you make sure that the picketing

exhibits your hatred towards homosexuals.

Correct, sir?

Yes, sir.

And it is a hatred, isn't it, Mr. Phelps?

Yes, due to the disrespect of God.

Well, you believe that homosexuality is an abomination

pursuant to the Bible, correct, sir?

Yes.

So, let me ask you this.

Let's talk about the photographs

that were taken of you

at the picketing of Matthew Snyder's funeral.

-May I approach the witness, Your Honor? -Yes.

I have three photographs, I'm gonna mark

Plaintiff's One, Two and Three.

I've previously shown them to counsel.

Deemed marked.

Thank you. Showing you Plaintiff's One for identification, Mr. Phelps.

Do you recognize that as a photograph of you?

Yes.

Those are your words, are they?

Yes.

You were proud to put those words

on a sign, and then carry that sign 1,000 miles

-from Kansas to Maryland, correct? -Objection.

He made 'em, he carried 'em, and he exhibited them.

-Correct, sir? -Yes.

-And you believe them. -Yes, Judge.

-Every word? -Yes.

Now, when that sign was displayed,

you knew that Matthew Snyder's father was burying his son that day, didn't you?

Yes.

You knew his son was killed in Iraq, didn't you?

-Yes. -You didn't care whether or not

that sign offended the man who was burying his 20-year-old boy, did it?

No, that is incorrect.

We were there to send a message.

So, my client's burying his son

and you want this jury to believe

that wasn't specifically targeting Albert Snyder in this case?

No! We were there to send a message!

The Bible says, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

We were there to open people's eyes to the holy word of Almighty God.

Tell me, did you know Matt Snyder personally?

No.

It didn't matter to you.

No, sir. We were there to send a message.

No matter how hurtful that was to Matthew Snyder's father, correct?

That is correct.

No further questions.

You may inquire.

Thank you, Your Honor. Good morning, Mr. Phelps.

Morning, sir.

Mr. Phelps, could you please tell the jury where you're from?

I am from Topeka, Kansas. I have lived in Topeka since 1954.

And I think I know the answer to this, but do you believe in God?

Of course I do.

Mr. Phelps, do you believe that the Bible prohibits homosexuality?

I know it does.

And what do you believe is God's opinion about the United States military

since the US military has been allowing in gay servicemen and women?

God hates the military ever since it started allowing homosexuals to enlist.

He will punish all Americans

until the military kicks all the gays out of it,

and stops letting them in.

Mr. Phelps, what are you doing to raise awareness

for this issue that you perceive?

I've been picketing funerals for over 20 years.

Ever since the military started letting homosexuals to join.

I have picketed over 600 funerals.

Mr. Phelps, when you picket these military funerals,

does it matter to you whether the serviceman or woman

who was being laid to rest was even gay?

I don't care about that.

I want people to know what the military is doing.

So, are you saying that your protest is against the military

and not the individual, Matthew Snyder, in this case?

That is correct.

Why do you think it's so important to let the general public know

about what's going on in the military?

I need to make people aware of what is going on,

so that I can save this country.

Do you feel you're saving lives by doing what you're doing?

-Yes, sir. -Thank you, Mr. Phelps.

-I have no further questions. -Witness is excused.

Call your next witness, Mr. Bakman.

I call Shirley Phelps-Roper, Your Honor.

Mr. Bakman, you may inquire.

Miss Phelps...

Sir, before we begin, I would just like it on the record

that I strenuously object to the hostile, misleading, prejudicial,

and frankly disgusting way you just badgered my father.

Perhaps, instead of the way you've repetitively attacked him

with your accusations, you would do better to heed our warning

about God's wrath.

-Well, you... -Excuse me.

Miss Phelps, this is a courtroom.

-I understand, Your Honor, I... -Uh... Ah!

This is a courtroom. I control this courtroom.

And what I want you to do is answer counsel's questions.

You want to make a speech, go outside.

Clear?

-Clear. -Perfect.

Mr. Bakman, you may inquire.

Miss Phelps, how many children do you have?

Eleven.

So, you, your father, and four of your children

traveled on March 9th from Kansas to Maryland

in order to picket Matthew Snyder's funeral, correct?

Correct.

Now, your beliefs are hate beliefs towards homosexuals, isn't that right?

You characterize us as hateful and homophobic.

We are simply preaching the word of God as it says in the Bible.

No, if I were to characterize you, I would characterize you as offensive.

-Let's talk about your... -Objection.

-Objection. -Objection Sustained.

Strike that from the record. Counsel, careful.

Let's talk about the signs that you and your children made.

By the way, did your children help you make signs

that you took from Kansas to Maryland?

Absolutely, they did.

And those signs had such colorful language...

We use harsh, plain language to get attention

so we can spread our message as far as possible.

Are you proud of those signs?

I am not ashamed of them at all.

Are you proud of teaching your children

that type of thought?

You either teach your children the true word of God,

or you raise them by definition for the devil.

So, you write articles, do you not, ma'am?

And you title those articles "epics." Is that right?

Yes. We...

And you wrote an epic about your picketing activity

in front of Matthew Snyder's funeral, didn't you?

Yes, I did. Sir...

And what did the epic say?

It explained how we had done God's work.

And in preaching God's work,

you selected a particular website to post your epic, didn't you?

-Yes, sir. -Why don't you turn to the jury, ma'am,

and tell the jury what the name of the website is.

It's called Godhatesfags.com.

And I see what you're doing again with the emotional manipulation here.

I'm sorry, I didn't get that.

I understand the words are very offensive to most people,

but you have to understand there is zero ambiguity in the Bible

about what God thinks about homosexuality. It is a mortal sin against Him.

And I would do and say whatever I must

to help this nation understand the peril we're in.

Hell goes on forever. The consequences are too severe.

Repent or perish, sir.

This goes for everybody. Repent or perish.

No matter the hurt it causes a father who just buried his son. Correct?

I am not responsible for Mr. Snyder watching the news after the funeral.

Well, and you made sure that you talked to the press that day, didn't you?

The press approached me to ask me questions.

And you made sure those signs of yours

were visible when the press interviewed you, didn't you?

Again, our entire purpose here is to get our message out

to as many people as possible.

So, what's the answer to my question?

-Yes, sir. -Thank you.

And tell me something.

Face the jury and tell them

whether or not you have any remorse whatsoever...

-Objection. -...for the type of language you used

in picketing Matthew Snyder's funeral?

-Objection. That's an improper question... -Shh!

...to require a witness to face a jury, or face any particular...

You want to rephrase the question, sir.

Certainly. Is there any remorse whatsoever

in any part of your body for the hurt you've caused my client

after burying his 20-year-old son?

I am not remorseful, or I would not have done it.

-Any other questions? -No further questions.

-You may inquire, sir. -Thank you, Your Honor.

Good afternoon, ma'am.

Good afternoon.

Could you please tell us what your profession is?

I'm a lawyer.

And as a lawyer, who do you work for?

Phelps Chartered, my family's firm.

But I do very little client work except for the Westboro Baptist Church.

And does part of your work with the Westboro Baptist Church

involve picketing military funerals?

Yes, sir. I've done that for 19 years.

And why do you picket military funerals?

Because God commands us to let people know

what the military's doing so that we can stop it.

See, the US military is angering God by letting in homosexuals.

And this is very simple.

If the nation obeys the commandments of God,

then God will bless this nation.

But if the nation disobeys, God will bring his wrath down upon us.

It is our duty to take to the streets and cry out loud in the public places,

"Spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet.

Be instant in season and out of season. Preach thy word."

So, I want to be sure I understand. You're saying

that because during the occasion of these military funerals,

you have lots of support, and lots of support for the servicemen,

you feel that's the time that you want to step in

and say, "Hey, there's another side to this."

Absolutely, yes. This country is more concerned with being politically correct

than they are about their immortal souls.

Ma'am, what sort of an audience do you hope to reach

when you go to these military funerals?

We hope to reach the largest audience possible to spread our word.

And ironically, we have never had so large a platform

as the one we've gotten from Albert Snyder suing us.

The attention we've gotten from this has let our word

go louder and farther than ever before.

So, thank you.

Now, during the picketing that morning

with the other members of the Westboro Baptist Church,

did either you or any of the other members of your protest group

ever yell profanities at any of the mourners?

Absolutely not.

Now, Mr. Bakman asked you about the signs.

What did you mean by that?

Okay, thank you, let me explain.

So many of our naysayers love to harp on us for the "Thank God for 9/11" signs.

But that also, you have to understand, was just on a larger scale.

God's punishment against this depraved nation

for letting homosexuals into the military, and all the other sins

that people in this country commit every single day.

But in the case of American soldiers in particular,

you have to understand, these are people who have volunteered

to fight for a country that has made God their number one enemy,

that has institutionalized disobedience and rebellion against Our Lord and Savior.

I say, they all deserve death.

We are going to keep being the victim of God's punishments,

His righteous wrath on this nation until we change our ways.

So, thank God for dead soldiers, thank God for 9/11.

Thank God for any disaster that could possibly change the hearts and minds

of the people before it's too late. This nation is doomed.

Hell goes on forever. I cannot say that enough.

You have to see the big picture.

So, what you're saying is, your protests,

you feel that you're actually saving lives?

Absolutely!

-Thank you, ma'am. -Redirect.

-Oh, no. -Oh, no.

I think we've heard quite enough.

Yes. Witness is excused.

-Thank you very much. You may be seated. -Thank you.

-Mr. Bakman? -Jody Rush, please.

You may inquire.

Are you currently in the Marine Corps, sir?

-Yes, I am. -And what is your rank?

-I'm a Private. -And did you have occasion

to serve with Matthew Snyder in Iraq?

-Yes, for about... -Did you know him well?

I did. We were very close.

Tell me about Matthew Snyder.

Did he serve with honesty and integrity when he was in the Corps?

No question.

And I want to focus your attention, Private,

on the events of March 10th.

You came back from Iraq to serve as a pallbearer

for Matthew's funeral, did you not?

That's correct.

And describe for the jury Albert Snyder's emotional demeanor

at the time of the funeral.

Distraught.

I mean, he lost his only son.

They were so close. I mean, it made me jealous.

I wish I had a relationship with my father like that.

They were so close. I can only...

imagine how he felt that day.

And tell the jury whether or not you observed a difference

in his emotional state when you were with him

when the two of you saw the Phelps running their mouths,

and the signage that they were carrying.

He was a shell of himself.

He was broken.

The man was vomiting.

You need a moment?

Thanks.

I think this is an appropriate place to stop, Your Honor.

No further questions.

Any questions?

There are some questions here, Your Honor.

Sir, I just want to be sure I understand this.

You were with Mr. Snyder the whole day, March 10th,

the day that Matthew was laid to rest.

-Is that correct? -I was. Yes.

Now, you were with him in the car,

in the funeral procession leading to the church that morning?

Yes. I was riding with Mr. Snyder.

Now, you didn't see either Mr. Phelps

or his daughter, Miss Roper-Phelps, that morning

-on the way to the funeral, did you? -No, I did not.

After the funeral service at the church, you then accompanied Mr. Snyder

to the cemetery where Matthew was laid to rest.

Yes.

On the way to the cemetery, you didn't see any signs

protesting the military on the way to the cemetery, did you?

No.

So, if I'm clear about this, my clients

did not disrupt the funeral services of Matthew Snyder in any way, did they?

No, they did not.

Thank you, Mr. Rush.

Witness is excused. Thank you.

Mr. Bakman?

I call my client, Albert Snyder.

You may inquire.

All right, Albert, you have brought suit

against Fred Phelps and Shirley Phelps in this case, is that right?

-Yes. -For what?

Intentional infliction of emotional distress.

And that is over their conduct

at your son's funeral, or after your son's funeral?

Yes.

And Matthew died in Iraq, did he not?

Yes.

How old was Matthew when he died?

He was 20 years old.

And would it be fair to say that the two of you were close?

Yes, extremely.

We spoke some four to five times per week prior to his deployment.

How did you find out he died?

Marines came to my home and notified me

of his death.

And how did you feel when you were informed?

I became angry,

upset,

and depressed.

Did you have to make funeral arrangements for your son?

-I did. -And at the time of the funeral,

Albert, were you made aware that there were picketers there?

Not at the time, but I saw the tops of their signs.

Were you able to identify the picketers later from the news?

Yes. They were from the Westboro Baptist Church.

Tell me about the signs that you saw on the news, Albert.

What did you take the words "God hates fags" to mean?

That my son was gay.

-Was your son gay? -No, he was not.

You saw this an hour after putting your son in the ground, didn't you?

Yes, later, after the funeral, about an hour...

after the funeral, after I arrived at home.

I saw in full view...

the vulgar and offensive signs they were carrying.

Albert, did you hear the Defendant Fred Phelps speak on the news?

Yes. His mouth moved a mile a minute,

spewing his hatred and his homophobic remarks.

It was so wrong.

I was grieving over the loss of my son.

It made me physically ill.

I actually threw up, I was so sick to my stomach.

I felt...

incredible depression.

My son loved this country.

He fought and died for the freedoms and rights that we enjoy.

He fought and died for the freedoms and the rights that the protesters enjoy.

He defended their right to protest!

They should only say, "Thank you for your service."

Do you still feel the emotional effects today

from what you observed the Phelps do?

Yes, I still suffer every day over the denigration and defamation

of my son, who...

Who gave his life for this country...

paying the ultimate price...

unlike that scum, Fred Phelps, and his family members.

Can you quantify for the jury, Albert,

the pain and suffering you've endured at the hands of these two over here?

That's an impossibility for me.

My son was everything to me.

They destroyed his memory and the good he represented.

Were you proud of your boy?

Yes, I was indeed.

I was proud of my boy.

-Anything else, Counselor? -No, Your Honor.

-You have any questions? -I do, Your Honor.

Good afternoon, Mr. Snyder.

Good afternoon, sir.

Now, you described for us on direct examination,

you told the jury, that raw pain that you felt

when you first heard the news that your son Matthew had died in Iraq.

Yes.

You described it as angry, upset, and depressed.

Is that accurate?

That's correct.

Now, when you went to the ceremony,

you saw signs on the way to the church,

and on the way from the church to the ceremony,

showing support for Matthew and what he had given to our nation, right?

Yes.

But even all of that support,

you were still angry, upset, and depressed

that entire day. Right?

Yes.

Now, did you see either of these two,

or any of the members of the Westboro Baptist Church

on the street that day during the service?

No.

You didn't see any of 'em that day until later on,

you turned on the news. Is that right?

Yes.

So, after reading those offensive signs,

were you still angry, upset, and depressed?

Yes, I felt that way all day long.

So, after reading and seeing the positive signs

showing support for Matthew, you were angry, upset, and depressed.

And after seeing the signs from my clients,

you were still angry, upset, and depressed. Right?

Yes.

And that was as a result of having lost your son

in service to our nation.

Yes.

Thank you, sir.

Witness is excused. Thank you very much, Mr. Snyder.

Any other witnesses, sir?

No, Your Honor. At this time, the Plaintiff rests.

Mr. Mentzer?

The Defense rests.

Closing arguments, Mr. Bakman?

Thank you, Your Honor.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is my opportunity to speak to you

and to sum up the evidence, and really apply the facts to the law

so that you're able to reach a verdict in this case.

This is a case about intentional infliction of emotional distress.

The Defense lawyer wants to turn it into a case about free speech.

Hate is not free speech.

You can't spew, you can't vomit hatred,

and then claim it's protected under the First Amendment.

Mr. Mentzer wants you to believe that his clients' comments

were targeting the US military as a whole.

They weren't targeting the Snyder family or his son, Matthew Snyder.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

It's a smoke screen.

How do you hide behind the Bible,

and make a sign, and show it an hour after

you have a parent burying his son?

Put yourself in his shoes

while you're back in that deliberation room,

and ask yourself, if you were in his shoes,

how would you quantify the amount of money to award

for that kind of intentional infliction of emotional distress?

And my argument to you, folks, there's not enough money in the world.

Think about it, and come back with a reasonable verdict

to compensate Albert Snyder for the pain and the suffering

he had to endure in listening to their vile,

offensive vitriol.

Thank you.

-Mr. Mentzer. -Thank you, Your Honor.

The Defendants, the Westboro Baptist Church,

were involved in a peaceful and a lawful protest on March 10th.

They did not disrupt the services, either when poor Mr. Snyder

was on his way to the church, or away from the services.

Mr. Snyder did not even know they were there until later on.

But the key issue here is, where was their protest directed?

Was it directed at Mr. Snyder and Matthew,

or was it directed at the military?

Because in spite of what Mr. Bakman has told you,

maintain your focus here on the issue.

Because this is the exact thing that all of us have a right to do.

And that is to air our views on issues that have a public concern,

like the military, no matter how offensive they might be.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Mentzer.

Members of the jury, you have now heard all of the evidence in this case.

The First Amendment protection of free speech has limits,

including vulgar, offensive, and shocking statements.

You must decide whether the Defendants' actions

would be highly offensive to a reasonable person.

You must decide whether the acts and statements were extreme and outrageous.

And whether they were so offensive and shocking,

as to not be entitled to First Amendment protection.

Should you decide that the Plaintiff is entitled to a judgment in his favor,

you shall consider the monetary amount of those damages.

You may now retire.

Before we get to the verdict, I want to be clear.

You'll notice the very specific language the judge, played by me, gave to the jury.

It seems as if the jury was being asked to decide and define

the words "free speech."

Well, that's actually kind of unusual for a judge to ask a jury.

Usually, juries are instructed to find

whether the facts have satisfied the legal standard of law.

But this judge actually asked the jury to interpret the law.

Just so that you know, that's not me freelancing here.

That's what the actual trial judge told the jury.

Now, let's hear the verdict.

Kevin, the jury has returned. May I have the verdict sheet, please?

The jury has decided as follows:

The jury has decided that the Defendants have inflicted on the Plaintiff

extreme emotional distress.

The jury awards the Plaintiff $10,900,000.

$2.9 million in compensatory damages,

$6 million, punitive damages,

and $2 million for emotional distress.

I thank the jury for their deliberation and consideration and for their service.

This court is adjourned.

The Westboro Baptist Church kept on protesting military funerals,

and appealed Snyder's $10.9 million verdict.

Two years later, the judgment was overturned.

And the appeals court adopted a new definition of vicious speech.

The court ruled that speech in a public place,

on a matter of public concern,

should be protected speech under the First Amendment.

This caused a huge public outroar.

And the case went all the way to the Supreme Court of the United States.

Counsel, note your appearance.

Good morning, Judges. For the Appellant,

the Westboro Baptist Church, I'm Dan Mentzer.

Good morning, Your Honors, Larry Bakman

on behalf of the Respondent, Albert Snyder.

Mr. Mentzer, your opening statement.

Thank you, Your Honor. The protest by my client

of the funeral of Matthew Snyder was, to most of us, offensive.

But you don't get to decide that.

You don't have to decide that to decide this case.

The controlling issue here is for Your Honors to decide

whether or not the protest itself was aimed at the public,

the military, or a private citizen, Matthew Snyder, and his father, Albert.

And you don't have to look very deep to figure out

where this protest was aimed.

This protest, like every other protest my clients have been involved in

in the last 20 years, is aimed at the military.

That's why I urge this court to make a ruling here

consistent with your rulings in the past,

that speech involving matters of a public concern

is protected, it's allowed. And yes, it comes at a cost.

It comes at a cost that a guy like Albert Snyder,

who gave so much for this country,

who now has to go to his funeral and perhaps hear people

sharing their ignorant, homophobic views.

But yes, the First Amendment is that important

to allow that type of speech.

And that's why it's important that this court reverse that jury verdict,

and give us our free speech back.

Thank you.

Mr. Bakman, do you wish to give a statement?

-I do, Your Honor. -Please.

To reverse the jury verdict in this case at this time

would be an abomination of justice.

Westboro's conduct, their signage,

their speech in this case,

was directly targeted to Matt Snyder and his family.

That is the only interpretation this court can draw

from signage that said, "Thank God for dead soldiers,"

a thousand feet outside my client's funeral for his son.

How this court could find that that type of signage

is directed to the public at large as opposed to private citizens

would be beyond belief.

This is hate speech.

Hate speech is not entitled to First Amendment protection.

And for this court to rule otherwise

would constitute a grave, grave injustice.

I urge this court to uphold the jury verdict in this case

and rule in favor of the Respondent, Albert Snyder.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bakman.

We will now retire to deliberate.

We have reached a unanimous verdict.

The First Amendment does not apply only to our friends and speech we like.

It protects speech that is sometimes vile and abhorrent,

and that represents some of the worst tendencies in society.

That their goal in life is to show up and protest the funerals

of those who have given their lives in defense of this country

does indeed shock the conscience.

Respondent's son, Matthew Snyder, fought and gave his life

so that these bigots have the right to protest.

We don't give short shrift to the pain

that hate caused Respondent and his family.

We honor Matthew's sacrifice, and our role as a court

is to uphold the legal principles for which he fought and died.

The situation is ironic, but his sacrifice was heroic.

As repugnant as Appellant's speech may have been,

it undoubtedly involved matters of public concern

and is thus entitled to heightened First Amendment protection.

Our ruling should not be construed

as a tacit endorsement of Appellant's speech.

It is because Matthew's sacrifice was so noble

that we must look beyond that.

This decision honors the work of those who have fought and died for this country,

even if it shields from liability those hateful souls who attack them.

The First Amendment does not just protect the good, the right, and the just.

Sometimes, the First Amendment protects the fool and the bigot.

So it does here.

Our Constitution is bigger than the hatreds of those who would burn it.

We must honor it.

Therefore, we must reverse the jury's verdict

and dismiss Respondent's claim against Appellants.

Balancing the right of Americans to freely voice their opinion

is not without limitation.

I have no doubt that the courts will forever act as an umpire

as to what does and what does not qualify as protected free speech.

Those changes will always come about through court cases just like this.