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[tense music plays]
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[Henry] I've killed them
in every way there is except poison.
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There's been strangulations.
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There's been knife wounds.
There's been shootings.
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There's been hit-and-runs.
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[reporter] Henry Lee Lucas
says he has killed 100 women.
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[reporter 2] Lucas claims
to have killed over 150 women.
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[reporter 3] Henry Lee Lucas
killed at least 360 people
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during an eight-year spree
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that only ended when Texas authorities
caught him last year.
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[reporter 4] One policeman said
he makes Charles Manson
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sound like Tom Sawyer.
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[woman] Henry Lee Lucas
murdered my sister, Laura Jean Donez.
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[woman 2] Henry Lee Lucas
murdered my mother, Joan Gilmore.
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[woman 3] Henry Lee Lucas
killed my sister, Rita Salazar.
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[man] The last person he killed
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meant no more to him
than the last cigarette that he smoked.
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[Hugh] This is a bad guy.
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Everyone's perfect serial killer.
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And yet,
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things just didn't add up.
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[man 2] You can't kill 200 people
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and never leave
a single shred of evidence.
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Nothing. Zero.
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[Henry] I just grabbed her around her neck
and started choking her.
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You talk about being conned,
he was playing them like a violin.
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[Vic] I thought the powers-that-be
would welcome the truth.
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I was wrong.
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[Parker] The really sad thing about this,
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the real tragedy is
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someone got away with murder.
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[man 3] Either they found
the world's worst serial killer...
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or it was the biggest hoax
in American criminal justice history.
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[siren wailing]
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[Phil] Montague County
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was, uh, almost like
stepping back in time.
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People were laid-back.
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Mainly farmers, very little industry.
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The sheriff's office
and the police departments
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were all real small, understaffed.
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I became a ranger in 1979.
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Texas Rangers usually work
a lot of high-profile cases:
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murders, rapes, robberies,
organized crime.
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They put them in the area to be of benefit
to the local law enforcement.
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I had been a ranger two years,
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and I got a call
from the Montague County sheriff
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saying that they needed some help
on a missing woman named Kate Rich.
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Kate was 82 years old, lived by herself.
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The family member told the sheriff
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that there was a suspect in her mind
of Henry Lee Lucas
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and he was living with Kate for a while.
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We did a lot of searching for the body.
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We found Kate's purse
thrown over a bridge.
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So, you know,
that pretty well told me that
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the body was probably
still in the vicinity.
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After about a month of working this case,
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I realized that we also got
a 15-year-old girl missing.
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She went by "Becky,"
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but her name was Frieda Lorraine Powell.
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She was Henry's girlfriend.
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Becky's missing, Kate's missing.
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Henry's the common denominator.
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He was a pretty good suspect.
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Henry was probably
in his mid to late forties.
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He was a scruffy-looking skinny guy,
you know,
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and had a bad eye.
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We'd done a lot of background on him.
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We learned that Henry went to prison
in 1960 for killing his mother.
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Did some time in the "P&N,"
the, uh, psychiatric ward.
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For a period of time,
my theory was that...
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he killed Becky,
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and then, Kate...
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figured it out,
and that's why he killed Kate.
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[camera shutters clicking]
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He'd come up
to the sheriff's office with us,
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friendly enough,
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act like he was sincere,
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but there was nothing
we could hold him on.
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He was pretty impressed
that we had already gathered
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a lot of information on him.
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He said, "I guess since you found
all that out about me,
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you... you know about that warrant on me."
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I said, "Praise the Lord"
in the back of my mind.
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I said, "That's out of Florida, isn't it?"
I started looking for it in my papers.
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He said, "No, Michigan." [chuckles]
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I said, "That's right. That's right."
[chuckles]
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And, uh, I said, "What...
What was that for?"
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He said,
"Well, it's originally for stealing a car,
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but the warrant's
for probation violation."
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So I got the warrant number,
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and then when he come back,
we put him in jail.
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I had to keep him up in cigarettes.
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He drank coffee 24/7.
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- He just loved talking.
- [Henry speaking indistinctly]
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Well, I talked to him day and night,
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and, I-I mean,
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I just couldn't get him
to give me anything.
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I could prove he was lying,
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but I just couldn't get a confession,
and so...
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I finally told the sheriff, I said, "Look,
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let's just put him in jail
and just... not talk to him.
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Tell your people not to talk to him.
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I ain't gonna come up here and talk to him
like he's used to me doing."
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And the sheriff said, "Well, I got
some ploughing to do anyway."
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And, uh, so we stuck him in jail and...
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didn't talk to him.
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Wednesday night, I get a call.
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He's passed a note to the jailer.
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He told me what he did to Kate.
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He just, uh, stuck the knife in her chest,
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and then he got out and went around
and dragged her down into the ditch.
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Had sex with her.
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Well, when he takes me back out there
at daylight the next morning,
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the stuff he described is...
is still there.
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Parts of her glasses
that had been run over quite a bit.
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We found some of her clothing,
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and then we went to...
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his old apartment
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and, uh, he showed us the stove
that he burned her in.
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I could see some...
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what I thought was bone fragments,
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but we collected them as evidence
just to prove that, uh,
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they were human bones.
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He said,
"I'll have to show you where Becky is,
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but it's not a pretty sight."
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He said, "If you'll dig right there,
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you'll find a pillowcase
with part of her."
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"The legs are out thataway."
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Uh...
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"Her head's thisaway."
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And then I brought him back to Denton PD
to be interrogated.
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We kept arguing...
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cussing each other and...
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that was when I...
when I hit her with the knife.
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Okay, and... and after...
after that part happened,
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uh, do you recall what you did next?
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Yes. I took her panties
and her bra off and, uh...
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I had sexual intercourse with her.
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It's one of those things that, uh...
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I guess it got to be a...
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part of my life.
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Having sexual intercourse with the dead.
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Okay.
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Uh...
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After...
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After she's dead...
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and after you had sex with her,
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what happened next?
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Well, after that, I cut her... uh...
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- up in little teeny pieces.
- Mm.
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You know, he told me,
"I killed the only girl I've ever loved."
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At least it bothered him a little bit
that he killed Becky.
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After that, there's a, uh...
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an arraignment for Kate's murder.
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And there was
a couple of local newspapers there,
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and the reporter
from the Austin Statesman
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was following it.
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The judge asked him, "Do you understand
that you're being charged with murder?"
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I'm sitting there in open court, um...
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you know, casually listening,
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and all of a sudden,
Lucas just blurts out,
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"Well, Judge,
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what are we gonna do
about these other 100 women I killed?"
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What did he say?
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[Phil] From that point,
it went to hell in a handbasket quick.
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[indistinct chattering]
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[reporter] Mr. Lucas, in the hearing,
you said you killed over a hundred women.
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Is that true?
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[newscaster] Investigators
in Montague, Texas,
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are looking into a former
mental patient's claim
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that he has killed about 100 women.
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[newscaster 2] Lucas claims
a cross-country mass murder spree
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the last eight years.
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That immediately brought
a flood of inquiries
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from law enforcement authorities
in several other states.
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[Phil] I started getting calls
from law enforcement all over.
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Nineteen different states,
I believe, was the last count.
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There's no way of keeping up with it
at this point. It's gotten out of hand.
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It was a nightmare.
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[reporter] Local authorities revealed
that he was a suspect in several killings.
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They say he could be a mass murderer.
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[Phil] Wherever Henry was,
the media was there.
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It was a circus that would not leave town.
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[reporter 2] In this trial,
the 47-year-old former drifter
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was his own worst witness.
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First, he videotaped a confession
to the 1982 crime.
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- [weeping]
- Then he broke down on the witness stand,
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admitting regret
at having killed Becky Powell.
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Lucas said Becky hit him in the face.
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00:12:00,845 --> 00:12:04,932
And the next thing Lucas remembers
is seeing Becky with a knife in her chest.
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The jury did not buy Lucas' attorney's
argument of voluntary manslaughter.
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We, the jury, find the defendant
Henry Lee Lucas guilty
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of the offense of murder
as it lays in the indictment.
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[newscaster] In Denton, Texas,
the professed mass murderer
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Henry Lee Lucas
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was sentenced today to life in prison
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for murdering and dismembering
15-year-old Becky Powell.
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[newscaster 2] Lucas has also
confessed to more than 150 other murders,
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and he makes Charles Manson
sound like Tom Sawyer.
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[newscaster 3] Investigators say
the Lucas stories are so gruesome
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that even the interrogation process
is difficult.
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Yes, I've had days where I just...
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had to make myself go in there.
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I didn't feel up to it.
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I've had days when I...
when I've cut it short.
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[Phil] I was the one
that was tasked with...
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with getting information from him,
uh, about other murders.
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I would just give him
a, uh, pencil and say,
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"If you think of anything, write it down,"
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00:13:04,325 --> 00:13:07,578
because we're covering so many murders
that it's ridiculous.
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He would sit there and draw pictures,
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and in the sides would describe
how they were killed,
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00:13:20,508 --> 00:13:21,592
what they were wearing.
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Oh, it... it turned your stomach,
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and it was hard to be decent with him
and, um...
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So sort of a...
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self-protection, I guess.
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I... I went through a period of time
where I didn't believe anything he said.
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I don't know, I, uh...
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I was ready to do some fence-cutting
and goat-stealing cases.
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I was sick of murders.
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We would send pictures out to, uh,
the, uh, agency
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00:14:03,509 --> 00:14:05,886
that we believed would be responsible
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for investigating that murder.
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00:14:09,473 --> 00:14:12,351
One of the, uh, Texas sheriffs
that we, uh, contacted
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was Sheriff Boutwell.
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I was at home one Saturday morning
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back in, uh, June of, uh, 1983,
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I had a call from the, uh, sheriff
in Montague County.
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He called me and said, uh, "Jim, uh...
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00:14:29,743 --> 00:14:33,163
we got an old boy in jail up here
that you might want to talk to."
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[Phil] Sheriff Boutwell had been
actively investigating a string of murders
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up and down I-35
between Dallas and Austin.
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00:14:45,009 --> 00:14:48,095
We had several bodies out here
on Interstate 35.
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00:14:49,805 --> 00:14:54,393
And, uh, we weren't having any luck
on solving or clearing those cases.
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00:14:56,437 --> 00:14:59,356
[Phil] He felt like
it was a single serial killer,
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00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,402
and he thought that, uh, Henry very well
could have been the one doing that.
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00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,866
Sheriff Boutwell got a bench warrant
and picked Henry up
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00:15:08,949 --> 00:15:11,493
right after he was sentenced
in Denton County,
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carried him straight to his jail there
in Georgetown.
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00:15:19,752 --> 00:15:23,547
And then, from that point on,
you never saw Henry without Boutwell.
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00:15:27,968 --> 00:15:32,348
Jim Boutwell was a legend
in Texas law enforcement.
243
00:15:32,431 --> 00:15:35,184
If you run the clock back a few years...
244
00:15:35,267 --> 00:15:36,101
[gunshot]
245
00:15:36,185 --> 00:15:39,355
...to that sniper
on the tower of the University of Texas,
246
00:15:40,064 --> 00:15:43,108
who killed quite a number of people
and wounded many more,
247
00:15:44,568 --> 00:15:45,986
Jim got in his plane
248
00:15:46,070 --> 00:15:49,782
and flew up and radioed
the location where the shooter was,
249
00:15:50,074 --> 00:15:53,118
and he got several bullet holes
in his aircraft,
250
00:15:53,661 --> 00:15:56,121
but he did quite a heroic job.
251
00:15:58,082 --> 00:16:01,377
After Lucas was in the custody
of Sheriff Boutwell,
252
00:16:01,877 --> 00:16:06,090
he, uh, went to the director of DPS,
Colonel Jim Adams,
253
00:16:06,674 --> 00:16:12,304
to see if they would set up a task force
to coordinate these Lucas investigations.
254
00:16:12,805 --> 00:16:14,098
Lucas, uh...
255
00:16:14,807 --> 00:16:16,725
is in a tight security cell.
256
00:16:16,809 --> 00:16:18,018
[Phil] Being a popular sheriff,
257
00:16:18,519 --> 00:16:21,647
he was... he had the political clout
to get a task force put together.
258
00:16:22,606 --> 00:16:24,566
So the more we can learn
about the mentality,
259
00:16:24,650 --> 00:16:26,443
the modus operandi,
260
00:16:26,527 --> 00:16:27,903
uh, the traveling habits,
261
00:16:27,987 --> 00:16:31,198
the public is going
to ultimately be more secure.
262
00:16:32,783 --> 00:16:36,787
[Bob] Colonel Adams
wanted a Texas Ranger officer in charge,
263
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:39,915
and I was assigned to that.
264
00:16:41,041 --> 00:16:43,502
[Phil] Sergeant Prince
was a Ranger's Ranger.
265
00:16:43,585 --> 00:16:45,587
He'd come from a family
of law enforcement.
266
00:16:45,671 --> 00:16:47,423
A straight-up honest guy.
267
00:16:47,506 --> 00:16:49,091
[telephone ringing]
268
00:16:49,842 --> 00:16:54,430
[Bob] The task force was set up
in a small office in the county jail.
269
00:16:55,848 --> 00:16:58,058
We were not an investigative task force.
270
00:16:58,475 --> 00:17:00,060
We were a coordinating task force.
271
00:17:01,562 --> 00:17:05,315
Our role was to, uh,
allow access to officers
272
00:17:05,774 --> 00:17:09,361
wanting to talk with Lucas
from all over the nation.
273
00:17:10,362 --> 00:17:12,489
We had an interview room set up,
274
00:17:12,573 --> 00:17:14,575
we had a videotape set up.
275
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,580
[officer] This statement is being
tape-recorded on a Panasonic machine.
276
00:17:19,663 --> 00:17:23,083
[Bob] When they were ready
for the interview, we'd bring Lucas down,
277
00:17:23,167 --> 00:17:24,001
tape it,
278
00:17:24,251 --> 00:17:26,754
and then when they were through,
we'd debrief him.
279
00:17:26,837 --> 00:17:29,506
"Was there any cases that you believe
you were responsible for?"
280
00:17:29,590 --> 00:17:31,383
Okay, then what happened?
281
00:17:31,467 --> 00:17:32,843
I hit her with a knife.
282
00:17:33,927 --> 00:17:36,805
Yeah, I had sex with her already
before I shot her.
283
00:17:37,556 --> 00:17:40,017
I hit her,
but I think I hit her with my fist.
284
00:17:40,100 --> 00:17:42,144
I ain't sure, but I think I did.
285
00:17:44,730 --> 00:17:46,857
[Bob] I'd set it up
like a doctor's office.
286
00:17:46,940 --> 00:17:49,777
If they need four hours,
I'd give them from eight to twelve.
287
00:17:51,111 --> 00:17:54,114
We may have to schedule it for a month
or two months ahead of time.
288
00:17:54,198 --> 00:17:55,699
We had such a backlog.
289
00:17:58,660 --> 00:18:02,581
That's probably in the neighborhood
of a thousand officers
290
00:18:02,664 --> 00:18:05,542
that signed in to talk to Lucas.
291
00:18:07,586 --> 00:18:10,547
As a peace officer,
that's a satisfying feeling,
292
00:18:10,631 --> 00:18:15,469
knowing that you've taken
killers like, uh, Lucas off the street.
293
00:18:16,637 --> 00:18:19,056
Maybe bringing closure to some families.
294
00:18:19,723 --> 00:18:21,767
Jack, I talked to, uh, Henry.
295
00:18:22,267 --> 00:18:24,937
He says that he did own a two-tone...
296
00:18:25,145 --> 00:18:27,189
[Nan] The task force seemed innovative,
297
00:18:27,815 --> 00:18:30,150
because the task force was an attempt
298
00:18:30,734 --> 00:18:32,611
to have
all of these law enforcement people
299
00:18:32,694 --> 00:18:34,530
come into a central location,
300
00:18:34,613 --> 00:18:36,990
so that people were sharing information,
301
00:18:37,074 --> 00:18:39,076
and at the time, this was brand new.
302
00:18:39,618 --> 00:18:42,621
[newscaster] Since Lucas was arrested,
authorities from all over the country
303
00:18:42,704 --> 00:18:45,040
have been to see him
about unsolved murders.
304
00:18:45,124 --> 00:18:46,458
They say it may be years
305
00:18:46,542 --> 00:18:49,378
before a full construction of his crimes
is complete.
306
00:18:49,461 --> 00:18:52,256
[newscaster 2] None of the known
serial murderers approaches the record
307
00:18:52,339 --> 00:18:53,215
of Henry Lee Lucas.
308
00:18:53,298 --> 00:18:56,135
[newscaster 3] Lucas was a drifter
who murdered at random across America.
309
00:18:56,218 --> 00:18:58,929
[newscaster 4] A drifter with
no conscience and a compulsion to kill.
310
00:18:59,012 --> 00:19:01,390
He cruised the interstates
and the back roads...
311
00:19:03,142 --> 00:19:04,852
looking for that woman in a jam.
312
00:19:04,935 --> 00:19:09,273
Yes, many of his killings, uh,
exhibited a lot of violence and overkill.
313
00:19:10,649 --> 00:19:11,984
Very, very violent.
314
00:19:12,067 --> 00:19:13,902
Very cruel in many cases.
315
00:19:20,325 --> 00:19:23,495
I heard that this man up in North Texas
316
00:19:23,912 --> 00:19:26,540
had said he'd killed hundreds of people.
317
00:19:26,623 --> 00:19:28,750
[reporter on TV] Now in jail,
just a few miles from...
318
00:19:28,834 --> 00:19:30,669
[Hugh] I had just spent four years
319
00:19:31,503 --> 00:19:33,046
interviewing Ted Bundy.
320
00:19:35,132 --> 00:19:37,843
But Bundy only killed about 30 people.
321
00:19:39,052 --> 00:19:41,096
Here's a guy
who says he's killed a hundred.
322
00:19:41,180 --> 00:19:44,766
I really had to go talk to him
and find out.
323
00:19:45,392 --> 00:19:49,021
Sheriff Jim Boutwell
had read my Bundy book.
324
00:19:49,938 --> 00:19:54,484
And he said, "Well, you come down
and talk to Henry anytime you want to."
325
00:19:55,402 --> 00:19:58,113
Well, I started doing it quite often.
326
00:19:58,197 --> 00:19:59,448
[indistinct chattering]
327
00:20:06,747 --> 00:20:11,460
I've never had quite as good access,
even with... with Bundy.
328
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,172
I could go any day of the week,
329
00:20:15,672 --> 00:20:17,507
any time of the day, generally.
330
00:20:24,348 --> 00:20:26,266
My first impression was
331
00:20:26,808 --> 00:20:29,061
Lucas was just a dirtball.
332
00:20:30,979 --> 00:20:34,024
I was horrified by the smell.
333
00:20:35,817 --> 00:20:38,612
He was one-eyed and his other eye dripped.
334
00:20:40,864 --> 00:20:43,825
He had three, maybe four teeth.
335
00:20:46,203 --> 00:20:49,915
He was
a pitiful looking gentleman, really.
336
00:20:53,335 --> 00:20:54,586
[indistinct chattering]
337
00:20:55,504 --> 00:20:56,672
Y'all want a cigarette?
338
00:20:57,923 --> 00:21:01,802
[Hugh] I was able to bring in
a Japanese film crew,
339
00:21:02,469 --> 00:21:05,764
and Sheriff Boutwell
thought that was exciting.
340
00:21:06,098 --> 00:21:09,184
They were from Japan,
and my goodness,
341
00:21:09,268 --> 00:21:13,230
of course, we'll... we'll take the day
and we'll... we'll show 'em a good time.
342
00:21:13,981 --> 00:21:18,068
We appreciate the... the opportunity
to show the people of your country, uh...
343
00:21:18,151 --> 00:21:20,237
[speaking Japanese]
344
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,573
...some of the things that go on here.
345
00:21:23,657 --> 00:21:24,741
I, uh...
346
00:21:24,825 --> 00:21:27,119
I'm sorry they have to be such bad things.
347
00:21:27,202 --> 00:21:28,996
[speaking Japanese]
348
00:21:29,079 --> 00:21:31,581
The Japanese were just thrilled to death,
349
00:21:31,915 --> 00:21:33,750
and stunned, I might say.
350
00:21:38,213 --> 00:21:39,298
[man] Sister Clemmie!
351
00:21:44,594 --> 00:21:45,429
- Hi.
- Yeah.
352
00:21:45,804 --> 00:21:47,014
Nice to meet you.
353
00:21:47,097 --> 00:21:48,307
[speaks indistinctly]
354
00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:50,934
And Yoichi Aoki. Nice to meet you, sir.
355
00:21:51,059 --> 00:21:54,438
Oh. They brought you a present from Japan.
A painting set.
356
00:21:55,314 --> 00:21:56,148
Please.
357
00:21:57,065 --> 00:21:58,984
[speaks Japanese]
358
00:21:59,067 --> 00:22:01,153
- [Clemmie] Open it.
- It's a watercolor set.
359
00:22:01,236 --> 00:22:02,321
[speaks Japanese]
360
00:22:02,404 --> 00:22:03,655
I hope you enjoy it.
361
00:22:03,739 --> 00:22:05,157
[Clemmie] Open it, Henry.
362
00:22:07,451 --> 00:22:11,079
[Yoichi] In Japan, you're becoming
really famous in Japan too.
363
00:22:11,413 --> 00:22:12,247
Yeah.
364
00:22:12,331 --> 00:22:13,915
Look, nobody had ever
365
00:22:14,166 --> 00:22:17,336
paid that much attention
to Henry Lee Lucas.
366
00:22:17,461 --> 00:22:20,881
Uh, we understand you were born
in Blacksburg, in Virginia,
367
00:22:20,964 --> 00:22:25,010
and if you can tell us
a little bit about your background?
368
00:22:25,761 --> 00:22:27,804
I had a family that, uh...
369
00:22:30,140 --> 00:22:31,475
[exhales] was...
370
00:22:31,558 --> 00:22:33,727
I guess what you'd say a poor family.
371
00:22:34,269 --> 00:22:36,188
They didn't have anything, and, uh...
372
00:22:37,022 --> 00:22:40,400
My mother was, uh, a prostitute,
and, uh...
373
00:22:41,610 --> 00:22:43,487
[Jim] Your mother would bring people home
374
00:22:43,570 --> 00:22:45,781
and she would have sex with them
in front of you kids?
375
00:22:45,864 --> 00:22:46,907
Right, yeah.
376
00:22:47,407 --> 00:22:49,534
Sometimes I was forced to watch her.
377
00:22:49,951 --> 00:22:51,244
What was your dad doing?
378
00:22:51,787 --> 00:22:53,914
[exhales] Laying up drunk sometimes.
379
00:22:53,997 --> 00:22:56,333
Uh, sometimes he'd just
go on out of the house
380
00:22:56,416 --> 00:22:58,085
because he didn't want to be in there.
381
00:22:58,168 --> 00:22:59,419
[birds chirping]
382
00:23:00,337 --> 00:23:04,257
[Hugh] Henry Lucas grew up
in rural Virginia
383
00:23:04,341 --> 00:23:07,135
in a dilapidated little house.
384
00:23:10,847 --> 00:23:12,599
He only went till the fourth grade.
385
00:23:12,682 --> 00:23:15,185
He was trouble all the way.
386
00:23:16,311 --> 00:23:18,480
His dad had lost his legs
387
00:23:18,897 --> 00:23:20,774
in a railroad accident,
388
00:23:21,233 --> 00:23:25,070
and so he was on a mat
and he sold pencils on the street.
389
00:23:27,447 --> 00:23:28,949
His mother would beat him.
390
00:23:29,324 --> 00:23:33,370
She would ridicule him incessantly.
391
00:23:34,579 --> 00:23:37,457
[Yoichi] Your mother
was really hard on you.
392
00:23:37,833 --> 00:23:41,545
Did you ever think that
"Someday I'm gonna kill her"?
393
00:23:42,754 --> 00:23:45,006
Yeah, I told somebody I was.
394
00:23:45,090 --> 00:23:45,924
Uh...
395
00:23:46,466 --> 00:23:49,886
So here comes Mom in, uh, drunk, and...
396
00:23:50,679 --> 00:23:52,764
and during the argument with her,
397
00:23:52,848 --> 00:23:55,559
and her striking me over the head
with a broom handle,
398
00:23:56,143 --> 00:23:57,769
I swung at her with a knife.
399
00:23:59,146 --> 00:24:00,147
And, uh...
400
00:24:01,481 --> 00:24:02,315
Uh...
401
00:24:02,399 --> 00:24:04,568
I just turned and walked
right on out of the room.
402
00:24:05,068 --> 00:24:05,986
And, uh...
403
00:24:07,487 --> 00:24:08,613
It's as though...
404
00:24:09,531 --> 00:24:10,907
she didn't exist.
405
00:24:11,867 --> 00:24:14,703
[Hugh] Well, I believe you told,
uh, Sheriff Boutwell that...
406
00:24:14,786 --> 00:24:17,122
when you'd kill,
you'd get this cold feeling.
407
00:24:17,873 --> 00:24:20,083
Well, it's like being in an icebox.
408
00:24:21,001 --> 00:24:23,003
You get just as cold, uh...
409
00:24:23,378 --> 00:24:25,046
No feelings, uh...
410
00:24:25,881 --> 00:24:27,799
You don't have no feelings for...
411
00:24:28,425 --> 00:24:30,469
the actual human itself, you just...
412
00:24:30,552 --> 00:24:32,220
It's as though it's not there.
413
00:24:32,762 --> 00:24:34,639
But yet, uh, it's...
414
00:24:34,723 --> 00:24:36,641
You know, something takes its place,
415
00:24:37,517 --> 00:24:38,435
and, uh...
416
00:24:38,518 --> 00:24:40,854
- [Jim] An inanimate object, almost.
- [Henry] Yeah.
417
00:24:40,937 --> 00:24:43,106
- [Jim] A thing, not a person.
- [Henry] Right.
418
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:44,983
You know, most normal people
419
00:24:45,066 --> 00:24:47,819
can still have a terrible background
420
00:24:48,236 --> 00:24:50,947
and there's still
some kind of a firewall there
421
00:24:51,281 --> 00:24:54,910
that prevents them
from moving off into killing people.
422
00:24:55,660 --> 00:24:59,206
You know, that firewall
did not exist for Lucas.
423
00:25:01,708 --> 00:25:03,877
[Nan] When you talked to him,
he was cooperative.
424
00:25:04,544 --> 00:25:06,838
He was polite.
425
00:25:08,048 --> 00:25:10,926
But during the interview, I was terrified.
426
00:25:11,218 --> 00:25:12,594
Who wouldn't be scared?
427
00:25:12,677 --> 00:25:14,888
I mean, I certainly had read
about who this was
428
00:25:14,971 --> 00:25:19,684
and I'd never, ever been in the vicinity
of someone like that.
429
00:25:21,561 --> 00:25:23,104
The editor said to me,
430
00:25:23,730 --> 00:25:26,066
"Life magazine is doing a feature
431
00:25:26,149 --> 00:25:29,361
on the phenomenon of serial killing."
432
00:25:30,487 --> 00:25:31,530
Within a week,
433
00:25:31,613 --> 00:25:34,324
I was in Henry's interview room.
434
00:25:34,407 --> 00:25:35,784
His "office," he called it.
435
00:25:36,785 --> 00:25:39,788
[newscaster] According to an article
in the current issue of Life magazine,
436
00:25:39,871 --> 00:25:43,625
5,000 Americans
were murdered by serial killers
437
00:25:43,708 --> 00:25:45,502
in 1983 alone.
438
00:25:51,424 --> 00:25:53,802
There was this national interest
439
00:25:53,885 --> 00:25:56,429
in the whole idea of serial killing.
440
00:25:56,930 --> 00:25:58,598
[newscaster 2]
Motiveless, random killings,
441
00:25:58,682 --> 00:26:00,725
sometimes thousands of miles apart.
442
00:26:00,809 --> 00:26:02,852
They're known as "serial killers,"
443
00:26:02,936 --> 00:26:04,813
and according
to law enforcement officials,
444
00:26:04,896 --> 00:26:08,650
there are at least 35 of them
roaming the country now, stalking victims.
445
00:26:09,776 --> 00:26:12,112
[Nan] People were just beginning
to try to understand
446
00:26:12,195 --> 00:26:14,072
how something like that could happen.
447
00:26:16,032 --> 00:26:19,286
The psychologist I worked with
had developed what he called
448
00:26:19,619 --> 00:26:21,454
a serial killer profile.
449
00:26:24,833 --> 00:26:26,167
And in that profile,
450
00:26:26,918 --> 00:26:30,422
there were distinctive characteristics.
451
00:26:31,631 --> 00:26:35,802
The person usually hadn't married
and didn't have children.
452
00:26:37,345 --> 00:26:40,432
There was usually a controlling parent.
453
00:26:41,016 --> 00:26:45,562
There was a history of the child
visiting emergency rooms repeatedly.
454
00:26:46,646 --> 00:26:51,568
And then psychological issues
like suicidal tendencies,
455
00:26:51,651 --> 00:26:53,361
cruelty to animals.
456
00:26:54,654 --> 00:26:56,156
I had, uh...
457
00:26:56,823 --> 00:27:01,286
been taught sexual relation
by a man that lived at, uh...
458
00:27:01,369 --> 00:27:02,412
with my mother.
459
00:27:02,495 --> 00:27:04,456
What did he tell you
about having sex with animals?
460
00:27:04,539 --> 00:27:05,957
Did he teach you to kill 'em?
461
00:27:06,041 --> 00:27:07,709
Yeah, he taught, uh...
462
00:27:07,917 --> 00:27:10,795
you know, to kill animals
and have sex with them. Uh...
463
00:27:10,879 --> 00:27:12,672
What kind of animals? Goats?
464
00:27:12,964 --> 00:27:14,883
Anything, it didn't matter. Uh...
465
00:27:15,634 --> 00:27:16,843
Any kind of animal.
466
00:27:18,136 --> 00:27:19,846
[Nan] You could see the way Henry
467
00:27:21,056 --> 00:27:25,060
fit into the profile that we had created.
468
00:27:25,602 --> 00:27:28,355
Henry's mother was violent.
469
00:27:28,438 --> 00:27:30,982
Several times,
he went to the emergency room.
470
00:27:31,358 --> 00:27:33,652
Once, when he was six,
471
00:27:33,735 --> 00:27:36,154
she hit him over the head
with a two-by-four,
472
00:27:36,613 --> 00:27:41,159
and he says he was unconscious
for 30 to 36 hours.
473
00:27:41,242 --> 00:27:45,288
He talked about the fact
that whenever he had a pet,
474
00:27:45,372 --> 00:27:46,539
she would kill it.
475
00:27:54,422 --> 00:27:56,007
That's Henry's brain.
476
00:27:57,258 --> 00:27:59,969
Here, there's frontal lobe damage,
477
00:28:00,387 --> 00:28:02,097
these little white spots.
478
00:28:03,098 --> 00:28:05,642
The doctor said
it looked like a head trauma
479
00:28:05,934 --> 00:28:08,561
that happened
between the ages of five and ten.
480
00:28:09,437 --> 00:28:13,191
They found some temporal lobe damage,
some frontal lobe damage.
481
00:28:13,274 --> 00:28:15,944
The combination is supposed to be
the worst that it can be.
482
00:28:16,736 --> 00:28:18,571
Temporal lobe means...
483
00:28:18,905 --> 00:28:19,739
uh...
484
00:28:20,198 --> 00:28:21,908
no control over impulse.
485
00:28:22,325 --> 00:28:24,953
Frontal lobe
is lack of compassion, empathy.
486
00:28:25,036 --> 00:28:26,246
You put those together,
487
00:28:26,329 --> 00:28:28,540
it looks to me
like you have a serial killer.
488
00:28:31,418 --> 00:28:32,711
[indistinct chatter]
489
00:28:33,294 --> 00:28:36,548
[Hugh] Well, I don't understand
how this thing progressed, Henry.
490
00:28:36,631 --> 00:28:40,135
You started out killing your mother
in '60, then it really escalated.
491
00:28:40,218 --> 00:28:41,052
[Henry] Uh-huh.
492
00:28:41,136 --> 00:28:43,596
[Hugh] Was this...
What was in your mind then?
493
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,890
- What... what made it just get so...
- [Henry exhales]
494
00:28:45,974 --> 00:28:47,767
Did it get easier as you went on?
495
00:28:48,101 --> 00:28:49,561
Oh, yeah. Uh...
496
00:28:49,644 --> 00:28:51,813
It just didn't matter no more. Uh...
497
00:28:51,896 --> 00:28:53,773
There was no, uh...
498
00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:55,358
[inhales deeply]
499
00:28:55,442 --> 00:28:56,693
It just become...
500
00:28:56,776 --> 00:28:58,403
After '79,
501
00:28:58,486 --> 00:29:00,405
it become an impulse.
502
00:29:00,905 --> 00:29:03,324
And then, by me meeting Ottis Toole,
503
00:29:03,408 --> 00:29:05,243
uh, that didn't help so good, you know,
504
00:29:05,326 --> 00:29:08,747
'cause me and him started running around
killing together too.
505
00:29:11,666 --> 00:29:15,044
[Bob] Ottis Toole
was Henry Lucas' running buddy,
506
00:29:15,795 --> 00:29:16,671
and...
507
00:29:17,088 --> 00:29:20,383
probably had some, uh, murders together.
508
00:29:21,176 --> 00:29:23,720
Uh, Toole was a homosexual,
509
00:29:24,554 --> 00:29:25,597
and, uh...
510
00:29:27,056 --> 00:29:30,685
Lucas apparently was on the receiving end
of that time, but, uh...
511
00:29:32,437 --> 00:29:33,521
He was a...
512
00:29:34,022 --> 00:29:37,817
very much of a vicious, vicious person.
513
00:29:38,234 --> 00:29:39,360
Very low IQ.
514
00:29:42,614 --> 00:29:44,866
[Hugh] Toole would dress
up like a woman
515
00:29:45,366 --> 00:29:47,786
and go pick up people in bars and...
516
00:29:48,161 --> 00:29:49,829
get money for sex.
517
00:29:50,497 --> 00:29:52,415
This was a huge, big man.
518
00:29:52,499 --> 00:29:54,375
He was about six-three or four,
519
00:29:54,876 --> 00:29:56,503
and he was muscular,
520
00:29:56,961 --> 00:30:00,173
and yet he talked very softly.
521
00:30:01,257 --> 00:30:02,967
They became good friends.
522
00:30:05,678 --> 00:30:08,348
We picked up lots of hitchhikers
and all, you know.
523
00:30:09,933 --> 00:30:13,061
Henry mostly killed all the women,
you know, himself, you know.
524
00:30:13,144 --> 00:30:15,230
Some of them
would be shot in the head and...
525
00:30:15,688 --> 00:30:17,232
in the chest and...
526
00:30:18,233 --> 00:30:20,985
Some of them would be, uh,
choked to death and...
527
00:30:21,861 --> 00:30:23,279
some of them would be, uh...
528
00:30:25,657 --> 00:30:27,826
beaten in the head with a tire tool.
529
00:30:30,954 --> 00:30:33,122
[Phil] They made a lot of trips, you know,
530
00:30:33,206 --> 00:30:36,292
from Florida to California
and back and around.
531
00:30:38,545 --> 00:30:42,340
I think all they did was just drive,
and drive, and drive, and drive,
532
00:30:42,423 --> 00:30:46,177
and camp out at parks
and wherever they could.
533
00:30:48,221 --> 00:30:50,515
And he was a walking Rand McNally.
534
00:30:50,598 --> 00:30:51,683
He knew this country.
535
00:30:52,809 --> 00:30:55,895
You know, little tiny roads
and freeways and...
536
00:30:56,312 --> 00:30:58,690
And you just don't learn that much
about roads
537
00:30:59,232 --> 00:31:01,609
unless you've spent a lot of time
on the road.
538
00:31:06,197 --> 00:31:10,702
[newscaster] Roaming murderers like Lucas
create enormous problems for the police.
539
00:31:10,785 --> 00:31:14,455
They could do two in Texas
and be in Arizona or New Mexico
540
00:31:14,539 --> 00:31:17,166
and do one, uh, again in ten hours,
541
00:31:17,250 --> 00:31:19,377
and then go from there to California
and do them,
542
00:31:19,460 --> 00:31:21,421
so, uh, they're very hard to track.
543
00:31:22,797 --> 00:31:25,008
[Bob] A serial killer is probably
544
00:31:25,341 --> 00:31:28,845
the hardest person to detect and identify
545
00:31:29,429 --> 00:31:33,766
uh, because they'd have no connection
with the victim.
546
00:31:35,810 --> 00:31:39,731
Probably a whole lot of serial killers
have been out there in years past
547
00:31:39,981 --> 00:31:41,399
that weren't ever recognized
548
00:31:41,482 --> 00:31:43,526
because there'd be no connection made
549
00:31:43,610 --> 00:31:46,404
between a murder that happened in Texas
550
00:31:47,155 --> 00:31:49,240
and in the panhandle of Florida.
551
00:31:51,159 --> 00:31:54,245
Lucas got away with it
for quite a number of years.
552
00:31:55,455 --> 00:31:57,916
And that's why we set up the task force.
553
00:32:01,210 --> 00:32:02,420
[indistinct chattering]
554
00:32:03,379 --> 00:32:06,132
[Nan] Sheriff Boutwell
called a conference together
555
00:32:06,215 --> 00:32:08,968
where he invited people
from across the country to come
556
00:32:09,469 --> 00:32:10,803
and try to see if
557
00:32:11,220 --> 00:32:15,183
they could make any discoveries
pertinent to the Lucas information.
558
00:32:15,266 --> 00:32:17,310
Maybe we can come up with Lucas and Toole
559
00:32:17,393 --> 00:32:19,729
as being a suspect
in your particular area.
560
00:32:19,812 --> 00:32:21,689
[newscaster] Lawmen met to compare notes
561
00:32:21,773 --> 00:32:24,776
and piece together
the Lucas-Toole trail of terror.
562
00:32:24,859 --> 00:32:26,778
[newscaster 2] Police now link
at least Lucas
563
00:32:26,861 --> 00:32:29,405
to scores of murders in 17 states,
564
00:32:29,489 --> 00:32:31,407
stretching from coast to coast.
565
00:32:31,491 --> 00:32:33,201
I don't know whether it's me or...
566
00:32:34,535 --> 00:32:36,579
whether I looked trusted or what,
I don't know,
567
00:32:36,663 --> 00:32:38,331
but, uh, they'd get in the car.
568
00:32:39,374 --> 00:32:40,208
And...
569
00:32:40,833 --> 00:32:42,752
I'd go up and knock on people's doors,
570
00:32:42,835 --> 00:32:45,296
and tell them I'm hungry,
tell them I want a drink of water,
571
00:32:45,380 --> 00:32:47,298
they'd invite me right in their house.
572
00:32:49,759 --> 00:32:51,761
They'd say,
"Come on in," you know? "Come on."
573
00:32:51,844 --> 00:32:52,971
[man] Mm-hmm.
574
00:32:53,054 --> 00:32:55,056
Which is the worst mistake they make.
575
00:32:55,473 --> 00:32:58,101
I think that was the secret
of his success,
576
00:32:58,851 --> 00:33:01,771
because he acts low-key, harmless.
577
00:33:02,814 --> 00:33:03,690
Uh...
578
00:33:03,773 --> 00:33:06,359
You know,
somebody'd climb in a car with him.
579
00:33:06,442 --> 00:33:08,903
If they could stand the smell,
they'd say,
580
00:33:08,987 --> 00:33:11,030
"Oh, this old boy wouldn't hurt anybody."
581
00:33:11,114 --> 00:33:12,699
[indistinct chattering]
582
00:33:15,243 --> 00:33:19,288
[Hugh] But what causes you
to grab a woman or kill one?
583
00:33:19,372 --> 00:33:20,748
I mean, just... just...
584
00:33:20,915 --> 00:33:23,334
It's just, uh...
I don't like women, you know?
585
00:33:23,418 --> 00:33:25,294
- You know, at the time, I didn't like 'em.
- Yeah.
586
00:33:25,378 --> 00:33:26,879
And every time I'd see a woman,
587
00:33:26,963 --> 00:33:30,383
whether they was walking down the road,
walking down the street, uh...
588
00:33:30,466 --> 00:33:33,261
wherever I seen that woman,
I was gonna pick her up.
589
00:33:33,886 --> 00:33:36,014
- [Hugh] Yeah.
- Uh, I just hate them.
590
00:33:36,097 --> 00:33:38,725
[Hugh] Well, that's a feeling.
That's a pretty strong feeling.
591
00:33:39,684 --> 00:33:42,186
Didn't any woman
ever treat you really good?
592
00:33:42,270 --> 00:33:46,274
Clemmie has been the only woman
that has actually ever treated me good.
593
00:33:47,108 --> 00:33:48,192
Uh...
594
00:33:48,276 --> 00:33:51,779
She has gone completely
out of her way, uh, to help me.
595
00:34:03,833 --> 00:34:06,461
[Clemmie] I had been visiting the jails.
596
00:34:08,629 --> 00:34:09,797
They said,
597
00:34:09,881 --> 00:34:12,675
"Oh, Sister Clemmie, we have a..."
598
00:34:13,676 --> 00:34:16,804
New inmate, and he's a serial killer.
599
00:34:17,305 --> 00:34:18,181
"Be careful."
600
00:34:18,264 --> 00:34:19,724
You know, all of the jailers,
601
00:34:19,807 --> 00:34:21,851
"Sister, please be careful."
602
00:34:22,518 --> 00:34:25,897
It was, uh, right before Christmas,
and I was, uh...
603
00:34:26,606 --> 00:34:30,276
taking, uh, Bibles
and handing them out to prisoners,
604
00:34:30,359 --> 00:34:32,612
and I had one left, and, um...
605
00:34:33,237 --> 00:34:35,865
I was going to take the Bible home,
and... and I said,
606
00:34:35,948 --> 00:34:39,619
"Uh, Lord, did I forget someone?
Should this Bible go to someone?"
607
00:34:41,204 --> 00:34:43,539
[Henry] And she says,
"If I give you this Bible,
608
00:34:43,623 --> 00:34:45,291
you won't tear it up, will you?
609
00:34:45,374 --> 00:34:46,209
You'll read it?"
610
00:34:46,292 --> 00:34:47,293
I said, "Yeah."
611
00:34:48,419 --> 00:34:52,090
"I have given you my Holy Spirit
to live in you and to help you."
612
00:34:52,215 --> 00:34:54,092
What does that mean to you, Henry?
613
00:34:54,175 --> 00:34:56,052
That means living a clean life.
614
00:34:57,178 --> 00:34:58,846
Living according to God.
615
00:34:59,263 --> 00:35:02,809
[Henry] She's become
a very, very good friend.
616
00:35:04,060 --> 00:35:05,520
She's taught me...
617
00:35:06,104 --> 00:35:07,605
- the Bible...
- [man] Mm-hmm.
618
00:35:07,688 --> 00:35:09,273
And she's taught me how to care,
619
00:35:09,357 --> 00:35:10,983
uh, about others.
620
00:35:11,734 --> 00:35:14,278
After about the fourth visit,
I baptized him
621
00:35:14,362 --> 00:35:17,698
and I had a love for him
that I couldn't explain, you know?
622
00:35:29,043 --> 00:35:32,088
[Clemmie] He said that this is
the first time in his life
623
00:35:32,171 --> 00:35:34,632
that he has ever felt good about himself.
624
00:35:37,343 --> 00:35:41,055
He's able to see beauty
in things all around him.
625
00:35:42,598 --> 00:35:44,809
He enjoys oil painting.
626
00:35:45,893 --> 00:35:49,772
And he's one of the most
gentle persons I know,
627
00:35:49,856 --> 00:35:50,982
and it's like...
628
00:35:51,065 --> 00:35:54,026
he was never capable of loving before,
629
00:35:54,110 --> 00:35:57,905
and it's like
he has a deep brotherly love for me.
630
00:36:00,408 --> 00:36:02,827
[Henry] God himself sent her to me.
631
00:36:05,288 --> 00:36:08,416
[newscaster] Lucas says God told him
to start telling what he'd done.
632
00:36:08,499 --> 00:36:09,333
Uh... [exhales]
633
00:36:09,417 --> 00:36:13,462
It's an experience I had with a light,
uh, that came in my cell.
634
00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:18,342
Jesus Christ himself came in
and asked me to accept Him
635
00:36:19,427 --> 00:36:20,928
as my personal savior.
636
00:36:22,013 --> 00:36:24,891
And I said then, I says, "I can't, uh...
637
00:36:25,766 --> 00:36:28,186
clear up the cases
because I can't remember 'em."
638
00:36:28,269 --> 00:36:31,189
And He says, "I will take care of that."
639
00:36:31,689 --> 00:36:34,984
From that day on,
I've been able to go back to the bodies,
640
00:36:35,067 --> 00:36:37,820
I've been able to tell where they're at
and everything else.
641
00:36:40,323 --> 00:36:42,533
[newscaster] Authorities say
he has an incredible recall
642
00:36:42,617 --> 00:36:45,786
for names, dates, and details
of his crimes and crime scenes.
643
00:36:46,204 --> 00:36:48,956
[newscaster 2] Lucas was relaxed,
and he even lit a cigarette,
644
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,416
after he led deputies down a road
645
00:36:50,499 --> 00:36:53,127
where he allegedly killed
one of the women.
646
00:36:53,211 --> 00:36:55,963
[Clayton] Being able to direct persons
647
00:36:56,214 --> 00:37:00,218
ten, 15 years after the offenses occurred
is sort of frightening.
648
00:37:00,635 --> 00:37:03,554
There's just so many things
that would lead you to believe
649
00:37:03,638 --> 00:37:04,764
that he was there.
650
00:37:04,847 --> 00:37:07,808
That's the... That's the door
I came out of right there.
651
00:37:07,892 --> 00:37:09,227
- The one in the front?
- Yeah.
652
00:37:09,310 --> 00:37:12,605
[Jim] I recall, uh,
one particular murder case where...
653
00:37:12,688 --> 00:37:16,692
a, uh, Playboy magazine
was found by the, uh, victim.
654
00:37:17,485 --> 00:37:19,111
Henry told the officers,
655
00:37:19,195 --> 00:37:21,864
uh, that... that they would have found
that magazine there
656
00:37:21,948 --> 00:37:25,201
and even told them the year and the month
the magazine was issued.
657
00:37:28,537 --> 00:37:31,249
[officer] I think this one is a better one
right there.
658
00:37:31,624 --> 00:37:34,460
[Henry] All I have to do,
if I've ever killed a person,
659
00:37:34,961 --> 00:37:38,047
is they can show me a live photograph
of that person
660
00:37:38,256 --> 00:37:41,175
and I can look at the picture
and I can tell you if I've killed her.
661
00:37:41,259 --> 00:37:44,262
And if I've killed her,
I tell you how and where.
662
00:37:44,845 --> 00:37:45,930
Uh...
663
00:37:46,013 --> 00:37:49,183
He's, uh, confessing
to all of his crimes,
664
00:37:49,267 --> 00:37:52,687
and he's bringing forth the bodies
so they can have Christian burials.
665
00:37:55,564 --> 00:37:58,609
Receiving letters
from his victims' families
666
00:37:58,693 --> 00:38:01,320
are very moving and touching to him.
667
00:38:06,867 --> 00:38:08,953
[Henry] There's people out there
in this world today
668
00:38:09,036 --> 00:38:10,663
that's lost their loved ones,
669
00:38:10,746 --> 00:38:12,123
and they wanna know who done it.
670
00:38:12,957 --> 00:38:15,793
Why should I hide my face,
saying I'm a coward, you know?
671
00:38:15,876 --> 00:38:18,087
Uh... I want them to know who I am.
672
00:38:18,546 --> 00:38:21,007
He feels like he's doing the will of God
673
00:38:21,090 --> 00:38:24,969
and this is the first time
that he has any inner... inner peace.
674
00:38:26,887 --> 00:38:29,724
[Nan] Clemmie was his spiritual advisor,
675
00:38:30,016 --> 00:38:32,393
but she also cooked his dinners.
676
00:38:33,311 --> 00:38:35,438
I did an interview with Henry
677
00:38:36,105 --> 00:38:37,648
during one of those dinners.
678
00:38:38,065 --> 00:38:39,442
He was not in handcuffs.
679
00:38:39,525 --> 00:38:41,319
Clemmie was cutting his meat...
680
00:38:41,402 --> 00:38:42,236
[small laugh]
681
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:43,446
And cantaloupe,
682
00:38:43,529 --> 00:38:44,947
and handing him the plate,
683
00:38:45,031 --> 00:38:47,867
and we were interviewing him
while that was happening.
684
00:38:47,950 --> 00:38:49,577
She also cut his hair.
685
00:38:50,453 --> 00:38:55,207
I couldn't believe that he was
right next to a pair of barber scissors,
686
00:38:55,666 --> 00:38:57,585
smiling at everyone,
687
00:38:57,668 --> 00:39:00,379
and Clemmie not really understanding
688
00:39:00,463 --> 00:39:02,048
how dangerous that was.
689
00:39:05,259 --> 00:39:07,720
They created a community.
690
00:39:07,803 --> 00:39:09,472
It almost seemed like a family.
691
00:39:12,099 --> 00:39:16,270
Sheriff Boutwell and Bob Prince,
especially, would talk about
692
00:39:16,354 --> 00:39:20,900
maintaining Henry's mood
so he would continue to cooperate.
693
00:39:21,525 --> 00:39:25,112
We've gained his confidence
and we need to keep his confidence.
694
00:39:25,196 --> 00:39:26,030
Um...
695
00:39:26,614 --> 00:39:27,615
Uh...
696
00:39:28,449 --> 00:39:31,327
You know, if he doesn't have
our confidence, he could...
697
00:39:31,660 --> 00:39:33,746
um, he could either quit talking or...
698
00:39:34,246 --> 00:39:37,833
or, uh, tell us some things that...
that were not true.
699
00:39:37,917 --> 00:39:39,377
[indistinct chattering]
700
00:39:40,711 --> 00:39:44,382
[Hugh] He had free rein in Georgetown.
701
00:39:45,341 --> 00:39:48,260
He got drinks
out of the soft-drink machine.
702
00:39:48,969 --> 00:39:51,555
He wandered around without handcuffs.
703
00:39:53,599 --> 00:39:55,768
[Henry] I consider Georgetown my home.
704
00:39:56,727 --> 00:39:59,355
It's a little hard to say,
you know, being a jail,
705
00:39:59,438 --> 00:40:01,190
- but, uh, it's home.
- [woman laughs]
706
00:40:02,358 --> 00:40:04,735
[newscaster] There is an easy-going,
relaxed feeling
707
00:40:04,819 --> 00:40:06,404
between lawman and killer.
708
00:40:07,154 --> 00:40:09,407
[Henry] Being friendly towards each other,
709
00:40:09,490 --> 00:40:12,993
and, uh, I joke a lot with Bob,
kid with him,
710
00:40:13,077 --> 00:40:16,122
and I do the Sheriff the same way,
or Clayton Smith.
711
00:40:17,123 --> 00:40:19,750
Henry was so happy
712
00:40:20,501 --> 00:40:22,128
being at the jail.
713
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:24,964
They didn't treat him as a killer,
714
00:40:25,381 --> 00:40:28,634
but as a friend
that they would be working with.
715
00:40:29,552 --> 00:40:30,386
[Nan] It was...
716
00:40:30,636 --> 00:40:33,806
making him feel
as though he was contributing
717
00:40:34,223 --> 00:40:36,809
by helping to solve the cases,
718
00:40:36,892 --> 00:40:39,228
because the families needed him
to do that.
719
00:40:40,104 --> 00:40:42,773
[Henry] I was trying,
like I'm doing right now,
720
00:40:42,857 --> 00:40:46,026
just to get, uh, the cases solved,
you know?
721
00:40:46,986 --> 00:40:50,781
But, uh, there's nobody else
gonna solve them except me.
722
00:40:52,116 --> 00:40:56,328
[Hugh] As I started talking
to Henry, things just...
723
00:40:57,037 --> 00:40:58,247
didn't add up.
724
00:40:58,330 --> 00:40:59,165
[Henry] Uh...
725
00:40:59,957 --> 00:41:01,208
There's hundreds of 'em.
726
00:41:01,292 --> 00:41:03,419
[Hugh]
One of the Japanese guys said, uh,
727
00:41:04,378 --> 00:41:06,547
"Well, you've just been all over."
And he...
728
00:41:06,881 --> 00:41:08,257
Henry said, "Yes,
729
00:41:08,924 --> 00:41:10,843
I got some in your country."
730
00:41:11,260 --> 00:41:12,678
[speaking Japanese]
731
00:41:13,262 --> 00:41:15,139
He's going to be caught by the police.
732
00:41:16,390 --> 00:41:18,184
Because it's a small country.
733
00:41:18,267 --> 00:41:19,477
Make you a bet.
734
00:41:21,312 --> 00:41:24,148
[laughs]
735
00:41:24,982 --> 00:41:27,151
I've been in your country, too. [laughs]
736
00:41:27,234 --> 00:41:29,862
Somebody asked him,
"Well, how did you get there?"
737
00:41:30,613 --> 00:41:32,615
And he said, "Well, I drove, of course."
738
00:41:33,324 --> 00:41:35,242
- [interviewer] To where?
- To Japan.
739
00:41:43,959 --> 00:41:46,670
[Hugh] The task force
was doing very, very well.
740
00:41:49,131 --> 00:41:52,218
Boutwell was thrilled.
He wanted everybody to know that...
741
00:41:53,010 --> 00:41:56,931
in his jail, they had this task force,
and that...
742
00:41:57,264 --> 00:41:59,642
they were... they were clearing
all these murders.
743
00:42:00,809 --> 00:42:04,605
Hey, let's face it,
everybody wants to solve murders.
744
00:42:06,690 --> 00:42:08,817
Families were pleased.
745
00:42:09,151 --> 00:42:12,363
You know, you have a member
of your family killed,
746
00:42:13,030 --> 00:42:14,990
you want to find out the perpetrator.
747
00:42:16,408 --> 00:42:18,118
And so many of them slept better
748
00:42:18,786 --> 00:42:22,206
because they felt they had found the perp.
749
00:42:23,624 --> 00:42:25,543
This is a bad guy.
750
00:42:26,460 --> 00:42:29,505
Everyone's perfect serial killer.
751
00:42:34,009 --> 00:42:39,098
And yet, I had interviewed
a lot of murderers over the years,
752
00:42:39,848 --> 00:42:41,016
and this was...
753
00:42:41,684 --> 00:42:43,727
this was so far out of the norm.
754
00:42:45,479 --> 00:42:46,855
- Thank you very much.
- Thank you.
755
00:42:46,939 --> 00:42:50,943
F[Hugh] I knew I had
to keep questioning, checking.
756
00:42:55,698 --> 00:42:58,117
When there was nobody around
but me and Henry,
757
00:42:58,492 --> 00:43:01,287
he'd say, "Well,
I didn't really do all them things."
758
00:43:02,871 --> 00:43:04,623
He said, "I'm just making this up.
759
00:43:05,165 --> 00:43:06,542
I'll talk to you later."
760
00:43:07,001 --> 00:43:08,919
[mid-tempo music plays]
761
00:43:17,595 --> 00:43:21,181
♪ If these lies don't make it right ♪
762
00:43:22,182 --> 00:43:25,978
♪ Can we pretend enough is true ♪
763
00:43:27,313 --> 00:43:30,566
♪ And if the highway calls at night ♪
764
00:43:31,442 --> 00:43:35,195
♪ Well, these bars still make me blue ♪
765
00:43:36,488 --> 00:43:40,159
♪ Can a lie told enough ♪
766
00:43:42,369 --> 00:43:44,371
♪ Become true? ♪
767
00:43:45,789 --> 00:43:49,668
♪ Can a lie told enough ♪
768
00:43:50,461 --> 00:43:53,005
♪ Become enough for you? ♪
61060
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