Original subtitles

Do you, Lori Bay, in presenting this child for holy baptism, confess your

in our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ?

I do.

And do you, therefore, accept as your bounden duty and privilege to live

this child a life that becomes the gospel?

I never knew she had a brother.

Who's the other guy?

I don't know.

A bit young for you.

Private and public worship of God.

I do.

And what name is given this child?

Michael John.

Michael John, I baptize thee in the name of the Father, and of the Son,

and of the Holy Spirit.

Amen.

Friends, may the Lord bless, preserve, and keep you.

now and forevermore.

Amen. Amen.

Many of you have been wondering who Michael's father is.

I'd like to introduce him now.

My dear friend, Gordy Hartman.

About a year ago, Gordy came to me with my brother Jerry, his life partner, and

asked me if I would consider carrying a baby for them.

I happily agreed, and you can see the beautiful result.

And since Jerry and Gordy have decided to raise Michael right here in Rome,

we'll all have a chance to watch him grow up.

Congratulations.

Good God!

Gay parents raising their son in Rome.

It's a brave new world, huh, Henry?

Henry, what's the matter?

I wonder how they did it. That's not the way I would have handled it.

Artificial insemination?

In vitro?

Carter. He probably wasn't even there.

All you need is a firm pillow and a turkey baster, you know. Carter, open

door. I'm standing in a puddle.

Sorry.

So, who's going to be the mom?

I guess you could say Laurie's brother.

I don't get it.

How could a guy be a mom?

Because he's a faggot, moron. Matthew.

Takes one to know one.

Look who's talking.

Shut up.

Faggot. Hey, stop it.

Matthew. He called me a faggot. Matthew, we don't use that word in this family.

And you apologize to your brother.

Okay, okay. I'm sorry.

You're gay.

I'm not gay.

Upstairs. What'd I do?

Now. Zach.

Don't listen to him. He's just being his usual moronic, homophobic self.

And besides, even if you were gay, there's nothing wrong with it. There

No.

Is there, Mom?

Jill? What? Oh, no, honey, there isn't.

Watch those fingers. Okay, step them up. There we go.

Watch his neck.

Hey, my little pumpkin. Yes, little pumpkin.

Okay, little guy.

Hey, come in.

You don't look so hot.

I'm on the news.

My approval ratings are falling.

My friends think I'm crazy.

How was our day?

You think you've got it bad? I've been trying to teach your brother to change a

diaper. Hey, it's not so easy.

Is that the boy?

Doorbell. Doorbell.

It's so cute. Look at the door, how he laughs when you make your funny face. I

do not make a funny face.

Gerald?

Well?

If I'd known you were coming, I would have put out the dip.

Oh, Gerald.

Mom?

Oh, is that my grandson?

Hello,

Michael.

Hello.

What a big baby.

What a beautiful boy.

Hello, Christine.

Gordon.

Here, let me take your coat.

There you go. What a surprise.

Can I get you something? Some coffee?

Thank you. Black.

What's the matter?

Everything's all right, love.

Grandma's here.

Remember the dancing bandit, the bank robber who became mayor of Rome,

last year? Well...

She struck again today, only this time it's not just the bankers who are up in

arms. The mayor has given custody of her three -month -old son to his biological

father, a gay minister, and his lover, a Chicago stockbroker who also happens to

be the mayor's brother.

What? I'm so worried about Laurie, Jimmy.

When we went through her pregnancy together, she didn't seem like a woman

was going to give up her baby.

She must love her brother a whole lot to do this for him. I can't imagine what

she must be going through.

It's her decision.

I know.

I know, but do you think that this is really a good situation for the baby?

Oh, honey.

They seem like decent people.

Laurie trusts them.

How can she know that they can raise her child?

Oh, how does anyone know?

There's a lot of people out there raising children that probably shouldn't

Look at your parents.

Well, look at mine.

We turned out all right, I think.

I'm not saying they won't be wonderful parents. I'm just saying...

She likes your hair.

You look nice.

Thank you.

What do they call that color anyway?

So, you're still living in Ann Arbor? Oh, God, no. I haven't lived there for

years.

Rochester Hills, outside Detroit.

Mm -hmm. Gay capital of Michigan.

Okay.

Just a little joke.

Nothing.

I hope you don't expect me to approve of this situation.

Well, I'm still gay, so I don't guess there's any chance of that.

I hoped you might have outgrown it.

Nope. We're still just a pair of queens, right, Gordy?

What?

I said, now that Mother's here, I'm thinking of going straight.

You just insist on humiliating me, don't you, Jack? Oh, yeah, right.

If you think for one minute that I'm going to give you my blessing...

I think I'm going to let you and him raise that boy.

Excuse me, but I don't think anyone asked you.

I may as well tell you why I'm here.

I wish you would.

I'm suing for custody.

What? I've hired an attorney and I'm taking my grandson.

How can you be such a bitch?

She came here to take Michael.

I don't expect you to understand.

He's my only grandson.

Somebody's got to look out for him.

You are not taking my son.

For God's sake, Gerald. He's not your son. He's her son.

You're his uncle.

Get out!

Do you see what you've done?

Get out of here.

You'll be hearing from my attorney, Gerald.

Believe this. She could actually get custody.

If she can prove that you're unfit parents, she will.

The judge, he will only look at the best interest of the child.

Are you telling me that this woman, who I haven't seen in my entire adult life,

can waltz in here and take our baby because we're gay?

No, no, no.

I'm not telling you that, but... What kind of society is this?

No, I mean...

All I'm trying to do is raise a son.

Is that a crime?

What can we do?

Fight her.

Gordy's the natural father. He has presumptive rights.

Your only other option is to walk away, relinquish custody.

We are not walking.

Mr. Wambaugh, we don't care how much it costs or how long it takes or what we

have to do.

Michael is our son.

All right, then.

All right.

Your mother is going to play hardball, which means we play hardball.

Define hardball. She's going to do everything she can to destroy you two in

front of the eyes of the judge.

We will do the same to her.

There can be no turning back.

He's crazy.

I don't know.

Good.

Laurie, what are you afraid of?

Nothing.

I don't believe it.

You're afraid that she won't love you anymore, aren't you?

No.

She didn't love you then.

She doesn't love you now.

Not the way you wanted her to.

God.

When are you going to stop pretending?

God, for God's sake, Laurie.

Wake up.

Along with communion.

Baptism is the most sacred rite I'm entitled to perform.

I had no idea when Lori Bay approached me that she planned to give her child to

two gay men to raise as their son.

I assumed she didn't think I was big enough to handle the truth.

Well, I've got news for her.

I am.

And I do not appreciate being made a fool of in front of my congregation.

before God, I'll have you know I'm not happy about it.

In fact, I'm mad as hell.

Many of you have shared with me your deep misgivings about this notion of gay

parenting.

Now, on the matter of homosexuality, Scripture is clear.

In Leviticus, it says, if a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of

have committed an abomination.

They shall be put to death.

Their blood is upon them.

So what are we to do?

I've spoken with the elders.

And I've spent several emotional hours with Christine Bay, whom I invited to

worship with us this morning.

And I've prayed for guidance, friends.

And it is my decision that this congregation will stand behind Christine

long days ahead as she battles for custody of her grandson.

Now, the church council has established a legal fund.

Now, I ask you to give what you can.

I'm also told that the ladies' circle is having a fish fry tomorrow night.

5 .30, is it?

Six o 'clock.

Six o 'clock in Fellowship Hall.

Now, please join us. It's all you can eat, and all the proceeds will go to the

fund. Let us pray.

I thought they fixed that. Yeah, so did I.

This one, too. Give me a hand.

I heard what happened at the church this morning.

Everybody's got an opinion.

Most of them bad.

I was playing pool last night.

A lot of talk.

Started getting pretty ugly.

Yeah?

What'd you do about it?

What was I supposed to do about it? I was shooting pool.

It was just talk anyway, Jimmy.

Yeah, well, I was just talking when Chuck Donnie told people to get rid of

mayor. Look what happened.

Maxine got shot.

Yeah, okay.

I hear you. Jimmy, glad I caught you.

I need your signature.

Just there on the top line above your name. What you got here?

Recall petition.

Gonna dump the mayor.

The city council sanctioned this?

Ten to one.

One abstention.

Hank Greenfield.

The last time I buy a car from him.

I'm not signing this.

Come on, Jimmy. You know we can't support her after that stanchy pull.

What are you talking about?

What's that got to do with being mayor?

It's a question of character.

Hers or yours?

Jimmy, you can't stay neutral on this one.

People look to you. Fine.

Let them look.

Everett, get the hell out of here.

You got work to do.

Hi. Hello.

I'm Art Fine with the GDL.

Gay Defense League.

Have you heard of our organization?

Uh, no.

Is this a bad time?

No. Well, we're, uh, about to have supper. I won't be a minute.

We're canvassing the neighborhood this evening to raise money for the Hartman

Bay Defense Fund.

I'm sure you've heard about the custody battle that's brewing here in town.

If you haven't, I'd be more than happy to tell you about it. Who is it?

Art Fine from the GDL.

We're raising money for the Hartman Bay Defense Fund. And are you familiar with

the custody battle that's brewing here in town? Because if not, I'd be more

glad to tell you about it.

Well, of course we've heard of it.

You'd have to be living under a stone not to.

Then can I count on you for something?

A hundred dollars.

Absolutely not. Fifty.

Twenty -five.

Anything that you can spare. I mean, we're strictly a volunteer organization.

Every dollar collected goes to the cause.

Carter.

Is that my dinner? I smell getting cold.

Well, excuse me for trying to make a difference. He can be a little great.

I guess we know who wears the pants in this family.

I just hope she's worth it.

What do you mean by that?

What?

Oh, my God. You don't think... What?

Don't be ridiculous. That's exactly what he thought.

Carter, for God's sake.

You're not even my type.

I think he's hungry.

No.

Three, eight hours ago.

Well,

I think we better continue.

Okay, if you think so.

Hey, Baghead!

Why'd you go back where you came from?

You get in the car.

What's your problem, man?

We don't want you coming around here.

He's back off. Oh, I'm scared. Hey, hey.

Anybody tell you what we do to faggots around here?

Faggots.

We've got a baby in that car.

Jerry!

Oh, my God.

Oh, my God.

You're bleeding. Hold still. Oh,

my God.

Be still. Be still. You're okay. You're okay.

We'll lay him down.

Relax.

Doc, I'm negative.

When was the last time you had an AIDS test?

It's been about six months.

Would you like me to do another one for you? I mean, while you're here?

No, I think I've been stuck enough for one day.

I don't mean to press, but you are a father now.

It would be a good idea for you to be tested a little more regularly.

I appreciate your concern.

Okay.

All righty, well, you're done.

I'm going to walk you a couple of days, okay?

Dr. Brock, since I'm going to be living here and you're probably going to be my

doctor,

I want to tell you something.

It's really none of your business.

You don't have to worry about my son.

I may be gay, but I'm not promiscuous.

I haven't been with another man since I met my partner 13 years ago.

And what about him?

Excuse me?

You may be monogamous, but how do you know he is?

Do you trust your husband, Dr. Brock?

Can I talk to you, please?

Rebecca.

What is it?

I have a big day tomorrow.

I want you to drop the suit.

Think about what you're doing.

Think about what the next few days will do to our family.

Don't you think I've thought about it?

I have no other choice, Laurie. I just wish your father were here with me to

help me now.

If Daddy were here, he would be at Jerry's playing with Michael right now.

He wouldn't have a problem with it. You do.

Your father didn't approve of Jerry any more than I do.

He was embarrassed by him.

Jerry's whole lifestyle is an insult to his memory.

And don't kid yourself, young lady. He would be ashamed of you, too.

Do you think I want to raise another child at this point in my life?

I'm 56 years old.

I'm alone.

By the time Michael goes to college, I'll be an old woman.

But if that's what I have to do to make sure my grandson has a normal life, then

that's what I'm going to do.

Mother! I don't want to talk about this anymore.

Good night.

Sherry was right.

This isn't about the baby.

It's about you, isn't it?

You failed with us. Now you're trying to fix it with him.

You tell your boss I'm finished talking about this.

You talk to me, not her. Me.

I'm 30 years old.

They can't talk to me. Why?

Daddy learned to sign. Why couldn't you?

Because the doctors told me not to. That's why.

The experts told me not to coddle you.

And I wanted you to talk.

But you were so isolated. Can you imagine if I had learned to sign?

When would you have ever come out of your shell?

And you were my daughter.

And I wanted you to be part of my world.

Obviously, I failed. I fell flat on my face.

But I'm not going to fail again.

Not with my grandson.

Not this time.

Despite 70 years of research, there is still no concrete scientific evidence to

suggest that homosexuality is anything but the result of environmental

influences in early childhood.

Well, that being the case, Doctor, are gay parents more likely to raise gay

children than heterosexual parents?

Yes. Our studies indicate that 12 % of children raised by homosexual parents

become gay. That is a number six times greater than those raised by

heterosexuals. Roughly 10 % of the children raised by homosexuals became

which is the same figure for the children raised by heterosexuals. In

latest research strongly suggests that sexual orientation has genetic, not

environmental, origins.

No more questions.

In your expert opinion, Doctor, are gay men as likely to make good parents as

heterosexual couples?

No. Without exception.

Our study indicates that gay men are disproportionately unhappy.

Why? Their relationships tend to be transitory.

They average between 50 and 100 different sex partners a year.

Have you ever interviewed my client, Dr. Russell?

No. Ever laid eyes on him before you walked into this courtroom?

No. Well, do you know anything about his sex life?

No. Or anything about his family history?

No. Professional life?

No.

Well, can you tell this court anything specific about my client that makes him

unsuitable to be a parent?

No.

I can't.

The battle of expert witnesses drew to a close this morning, with neither side

emerging as a clear victor. With the closed court session scheduled to resume

this afternoon...

Battle lines were being drawn outside the courtroom as the city council issued

petition to recall the mayor, and Sheriff James Brock rallied to her

It appeared... Nice guy.

He's a little pompous. He sure is.

You gonna eat your pickle?

No, go ahead.

I'm proud of you, honey.

What?

For taking a stand.

Most of us were just watching from the sidelines. But not you.

Just said what I believed.

Still. You know what Zach asked me this morning?

If I'd ever made it with a man.

Did you ever think we'd be explaining to our kids how two men can live together

as husband and wife?

A long way from Ozzie and Harriet.

A long way.

So you've decided to have a family. What then?

We tried to adopt.

We approached several agencies, but because we're gay, all we got offered

the babies no one else wanted.

Objection. Witnesses speculating. Sustained.

Describe these babies no one else wanted. Kids with severe physical

disabilities, terminally ill kids, AIDS babies.

Well, why didn't you accept one of them?

We didn't think we could handle the emotional trauma of parenting a

ill child.

Not to say, God forbid, if something happened to our son, we couldn't.

But I think we're pretty aware of our emotional strengths and limitations.

Well, Mr. Hartman, you and your partner sound like the all -American couple.

Together for almost 13 years, both of you college -educated, financially

You guys are a couple of regular poster boys, aren't you?

We try.

Can you think of any reason why this court shouldn't allow you to retain

of young Michael?

No, not really.

Have you ever led a promiscuous sex life?

Objection. Your Honor, we're talking about the best interest of a child here.

think close examination of sexual conduct is relevant.

Objection's overruled. At any point in your life, have you ever had frequent

sexual encounters with numerous partners?

Yes.

But not for years.

How many partners?

Fifty?

A hundred?

200? I don't know.

More than 20, less than 50.

Then you met Jerry Bay, and for the last 13 years, you've been totally

monogamous. Is that what you're asking us to believe?

That's the truth.

Jerry Bay ever tell you that he'd been convicted of lewd conduct?

Objection! Hearsay! No foundation!

Your Honor, Mr.

Bay sits right there. I'd be more than happy to put him on the stand. We can

deal with this hearsay.

Uh, objection's overruled. I'll hear it. Come on.

Yeah, he told me that. Look, I didn't do anything.

Sit down.

My lawyer told me to plea bargain. I didn't do anything. It was bogus. Sit

sit down.

Please, sit down.

I apologize for my client, Your Honor.

Mm -hmm.

So, you were once promiscuous, and your partner has been convicted of lewd

conduct.

Now, Mr.

Hartman, I understand that you and Jerry are quite social. You host a lot of

parties out at your place, isn't that right?

Yes, we like to entertain.

And at these parties, are men typically affectionate with each other? I mean, do

any of them kiss or hold hands, stuff like that?

Yes, I suppose there's some of that, but they're not make -out parties, if

that's what you mean.

You plan to continue to have these parties in the future?

Yes. So your son will be exposed to this type of affection between men in an

ongoing basis, won't he?

Yes.

But there's nothing wrong with people... Now, hold on now, Mr. Hartman. Nobody

is making any judgments here.

As a matter of fact, you are very proud of the fact that you're gay. Isn't that

right? I'm not ashamed of it, if that's what you mean.

It's... It's who I am.

That's right.

It's who you are.

Now, Mr. Hartman, wouldn't you agree that most parents would like to have

kids to grow up and be just like them?

I suppose.

Would you like to have young Michael grow up to be just like you?

Are you asking me if I want Michael to be gay?

You tell me, Mr. Hartman.

Would you like your son to be gay? You just said, you told this court that

was nothing wrong with it, that you were in fact proud of it.

I'd like my son to grow up to be who he wants to be.

Well, yes, that's all very good and well, Mr. Hartman. Would you agree that

the parent's job to guide the child in his development?

Yes. You just told this court you plan to continue having parties where men

and hold hands. So, in effect, you are going to be actively molding young

Michael's perceptions of what is normal behavior, of what's appropriate, won't

you?

I suppose. You suppose?

Don't you know what kind of values you intend to teach him?

Yes, I know. Let's be honest, Mr. Hartman. You lead an actively gay

You are politically active in the gay rights movement.

As a lay minister, you've tried to have gay ministers ordained in your church.

You're a propagandist. That's what you are, Mr. Hartman.

You are promoting actively a gay lifestyle, and you will actively promote

young Michael.

Objection! Overruled. Answer the question.

That's not true. How could it not be true?

He'll have a choice. What kind of choice could he possibly have in a blatantly

homosexual household?

He'll have plenty of straight friends. He'll have friends from school. He'll

have a choice.

Homosexuality is not a conscious choice.

We're through, Mr. Hartman.

Mrs. Bay, do you have the time and the means to raise another child at this

in your life?

Yes, I do.

I have a three -bedroom home with 3 ,800 square feet.

My husband did quite well, so financially it's not a problem.

I hired a nanny, a lovely girl from the university, to help me raise Michael.

And will you tell the court why you want to raise this child?

I want to give him something that his father could never give him.

A normal home where he can grow up as a normal child.

Thank you, Mrs. Bay.

Before you arrived at your son's house the other day, how long had it been

you'd seen him?

Twelve years.

Twelve years?

You didn't speak to your only son for 12 years? Why?

We had a falling out.

Over what?

His lifestyle.

The fact that he's a homosexual?

Yes. And how often do you talk to your daughter?

I don't know, occasionally.

Once a week, once a month, couple of times a year, what?

I don't know.

A couple of times a year, I suppose.

And how would you characterize your relationship with her?

Fine. Fine?

You talk to her once a year?

I talk to my son more than that, even when we're not talking.

So how could it be fine?

She's deaf.

She's not that easy to talk to.

You consider yourself a good mother, Mrs. Bay?

Yes, I do.

Not perfect, certainly, but... You gave your children everything they needed?

Everything I could.

Well, what kind of things did you give your children?

I gave them a roof over their heads.

I made sure they had clothes to wear that they never went hungry.

I gave them structure.

Life.

What about love, Mrs. Bay?

You didn't mention that.

Did you give them love?

I feel I did, yes, of course.

But?

They made it hard.

Ah.

So you love them conditionally.

Objection. Sustained.

Didn't you tell your daughter just two days ago that the last thing you wanted

at this point in your life was to raise another child?

That, in fact, you were ashamed of both of your children and disapproved of

them. And, if anything, you're seeking custody of your grandson just to spite

them. Objection, hearsay.

Your Honor, I'm interested in the parenting skills and the suitability of

witness. Never mind the jewelry and nice outfit.

The same.

You said your children disassociated themselves from you.

But wouldn't it be more accurate to say that you cut them off?

No. You rejected your son when he told you he was gay, didn't you?

Yes. And when you discovered that your daughter was deaf, you refused to learn

sign language, didn't you?

That was an informed decision.

How can we be sure, Mrs. Bay, that if God forbid something were to happen to

this child, if he turned out to be anything but a normal, healthy,

Christian?

That you won't do to him exactly what you did to your own children when they

failed to live up to your standards.

Objection! The fact is, Mrs. Bay, you may say you love your children.

You may even believe it.

But when it gets right down to it, you weren't there for them, were you?

In fact, in the crunch, when they needed your love unconditionally, you

weren't there for them at all.

I did the best I could.

Thank you For what?

For being my friend

This is a custody trial, not a referendum on homosexuality.

The expert testimony presented consists largely of conflicting studies

of questionable reliability.

And I find no convincing argument that sexual orientation alone is

in any way relevant to the best interest of the child in this case.

The religious among us, I suppose, would find it easy to hide behind their

Bibles.

But let me remind you, the same Bible that slave runners used to

protect their self -interests is the Bible that inspired those very slaves to

revolt. The same Bible that on the basis of an archaic social code

condemns... Homosexuality includes metaphors of

redemption, inclusion, and love that invite gays

and lesbians into the church.

No, the basis for custody in this case must

come down to individual considerations.

Mr. Hartman, you appear to be a vital contributing member of society,

one half of a stable relationship absolutely committed to your natural

son.

It is an unfair burden to make you disprove any unsubstantiated fears or

myths about gays raising children.

Mrs. Bay, I find you, perhaps,

the most tragic figure in this family drama, isolated, lonely,

in deep denial about your own culpability and the events that led to

estrangement from your children.

I hope, if nothing else, these proceedings will make you examine your

feelings and seek redemption with your daughter and son.

The Supreme Court has recognized...

that the rights attached to natural parenthood are among the most basic of

rights.

The fact that Mr. Hartman's lifestyle is at odds with the child's grandmother's

in no way proves that his parental behavior is detrimental to his son.

I am a product of my own upbringing, a member of this culture.

and over the years have been exposed, along with the rest of you, to the

innuendo, unbridled prejudice, and revulsion many people

feel toward homosexuals.

Nevertheless, I can find no objective basis to take this child from his

father.

Request for custody denied.

The child shall remain with his natural father.

We're adjourned.

Mrs. Bay, what was the verdict?

Is there anything you want your daughter to know?

Tell us what happened in Mexico.

Mrs. Bay,

please.

I'm not going to appeal.

Mrs. Bay, do you have any comment on this?

Will you be staying in Rome?

Uh, yeah, I think so. Do you feel vindicated?

Uh, I feel, uh, vindicated.

What happened to your grandson?

Are you going to get me to see your daughter? I have no comment now.

What about this phone service?

Can I talk to your son again?

Also, to my sister, for this amazing gift she's given to Courtney.

Okay,

come on, he's awake.

Hey, little guy.

Say bye -bye to your Aunt Laurie.

She's got to go.

Bye baby.

It's really not that weird.

There's plenty of them out there.

Elton John.

What do you think?

Pee Wee Herman.

Looks like one.

Acts like one.

Is one.

Wayne Gretzky.

There are no gay hockey players.

Never have been, never will be.

Think it'd be weird having two dads?

I don't know.

Probably be easier to use the bathroom.

Yeah, no girl junk around.

Food wouldn't be as good, though.

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