All language subtitles for Conversations With A Serial Killer - S01E08 - Belle Gunness

If serial killers could speak from
beyond the grave, would they be willing

talk to us?

My name is Julie McDonald.

I'm an investigative journalist.

And I'm Bobby Marcheso, an ex -cop and
psychic medium.

And together, we aim to have a
conversation with a serial killer.

This woman was clearly a sociopath.

Without conscience and money was her
God.

Look at this. Look, look, look. Strong
activity.

What's in there?

Just nasty stuff.

She would poison, bludgeon, and sever
their bodies.

Oh, did you see that? Look at that. 65,
62.

He's here.

Val Gunness is thought to be one of
America's most notorious female serial

killers.

She was a crazy bitch who killed a whole
lot of people, men to be specific, for

money, greed, and possibly revenge.

Brutally taking the lives of more than
40 people, her hog farm became the scene

of some of America's most gruesome
killings. She would bring the men down

this fruit cellar or basement, if you
will.

and there would dissect them piecemeal.

Some believe that Belle died with her
children in a fire at their farmhouse,

to this day, most believe that she faked
her death and fled La Porte with her

reported fortune.

Belle Gunness was one of our very first
American serial killers. She was the

original Black Widow. A psychopathic
killer does not hesitate to even kill

own children.

Belle Gunness was a ferocious and
formidable woman.

Described as money -hungry, she would
use lonely hearts ads to lure rich,

unsuspecting bachelors to her Indiana
Hulk farm.

There, she would poison their food, hack
off their body parts, and bury their

remains throughout her estate.

Our paranormal investigation will take
us to La Porte, Indiana, where we'll

retrace Belle's murderous reign of
terror.

But what will this monster have to say
from beyond the grave?

Will she reveal the truth behind her
savage murders?

Or will she be as elusive in death as
she was in life?

We aim to find out.

In our attempt to communicate with the
spirit of this gruesome, money -thirsty

serial killer, this paranormal
investigation will take us to the small,

town of La Porte, Indiana.

The hometown to Belle Gunness' sprawling
hog farm, slaughterhouse, and the scene

of up to 40 gruesome murders, including
those of her children.

We'll visit the tough private school
where she sent her three children.

The antiques mall where she spent her
victims' wealth to indulge the selfish

fantasies. And finally, we hold a séance
at the very farm site that Gunness

brutally murdered, cut up and buried her
victims.

But in attempting to make contact with
her evil spirit, which Belle Gunness

would we find? The family -loving, hard
-working hog farmer or the relentless,

money -hungry black widow?

We hope to find out as we attempt to
communicate with this cunning killer in

afterlife.

Belle Gunness was born in 1859.

Raised as Brynhild Storset, she lived in
the small village of Selbu, Norway.

As a child, her farming family were poor
and life offered little in the way of

luxury.

As soon as she was old enough, Belle
fled to begin a new life across the

on the promising shores of the new
world, America.

Her criminal history really begins in
Chicago.

She married a guy by the name of Mads
Sorensen, another Norwegian.

And they had a candy shop there, which
didn't do very well, but was very well

insured.

It mysteriously burned down.

After the store burned down, Belle
Gunness gathered up a life insurance

bought a plot of land in LaPorte,
Indiana.

And it was really at this point when she
launched her criminal career in full

throttle.

Belle's murderous reign began here in
LaPorte, and so would our journey.

I arranged to meet La Porte historian
Bruce Johnson in the hope that he may be

able to paint a picture of what Belle
was like in the early days.

She traded her home in Austin, Illinois
for this farm here in La Porte. I

think she wanted to get out of the
Chicago area because of all the...

questioning that was going on with the
death of the husband, her first husband.

When her husband died mysteriously on
the one day that his two life insurance

policies overlapped, that made it very
suspicious.

The neighbors were suspicious, the
doctors as well, and the relatives.

Can you tell me what sort of place
Laporte would have been when Belgunis

here?

Probably about the same size it is
today. We're about 20 ,000 people.

Hasn't changed much over...

who was a manufacturing community, but
mostly a farming community.

There were many immigrants who were
coming here to start new lives.

So the children that lived with Bell
when she was in LaPorte, were they

biologically her children or were they
all adopted? Do we know that?

None of them were adopted that we can
prove.

None of them she gave birth to.

As far as I know, they were all foster
children.

I mean, to me, somebody who adopts lots
of children, that tells you that that

person might have a protective kind of
matriarchal sort of side to them. And

yet, as we know, she also had a very
different side to her, which was as a

murderess. So I'm just trying to imagine
how those two went together.

What bothers me the most is the
children.

how she could raise these children,
especially Jenny Olsen. It's 16 years

raised this girl, and then to kill her.
I just can't imagine what must be going

through her mind.

To keep up an appearance of wealth and
respectability, Bell sent her three

foster children here to the once
expensive and prestigious St. John's

Look at this. Look at this. What a
strong activity.

It's here that our paranormal
investigation for the spirit of Bell

We'll begin.

Jesus Christ, I just saw a figure
walking up through there.

Belle Gunness is believed to have
brutally murdered up to 40 people in the

1890s, burying their butchered remains
across her 50 -acre hog farm in La

Indiana.

When Belle moved to La Porte, it seemed
like she established herself as a woman

of considerable means.

She sent her children to school and to
church, and she seemed to be living

a pretty sumptuous life.

She was a pig farmer. She hired
farmhands out to help her do crops, and

would go and talk to the townspeople and
was very, you know, part of the

community. In 1902, Belle Sorensen
married for the second time a local

named Peter Gunness, who was a man of
some influence and owned some property

La Porte, Indiana.

However, Gunness was not long for this
world.

Our search for the spirit of this
formidable monster has brought us here

notoriously haunted St. John's School.

Belle disguised her murderous intentions
and presented herself as a loving

mother and pillar of the community.

This school was the perfect location to
search for paranormal evidence

surrounding Belle and her murdered
children.

So Bobby, this is the first stop on our
paranormal tour. It's St. John's

Lutheran School.

As you can see, it's abandoned.

It's pretty creepy.

It does, doesn't it? People in this
neighborhood tend to avoid the building,

they tell us. They feel that it's
probably haunted.

The reason that it's interesting for us
is because Belle Gunness sent her

children here to school.

Hopefully this location is going to be
the start of being able to keep together

the Belle Gunness story.

Built in 1890, St John's School was only
two miles from the Gunners' household

and was famous for educating the
children of foreign families who'd moved

Laporte, a tough, regimented private
school. St John's believed in discipline

all costs.

As the Indiana Ghost Trackers arrived to
set up for the investigation, Bobby

took the chance to explore this huge
four -story building before nightfall.

Hello? What was that?

I don't have a light.

Crawl space.

There's somebody standing over there.

Hello?

But did you see that mist?

That wasn't my breath.

That's usually energy.

With Bobby allegedly already sensing
some activity, we were ready to search

the spirit of Belle Gunness.

There's a few areas where I sensed some
things, some energies and spirits, so I

kind of want to start in those areas.
I'd like to go up on top, too, on the

third floor and check that out.

And then in the basement was a pretty
good area.

When I was walking around earlier, I saw
a mist.

which is often a sign of paranormal
activity.

And in your walk around, were you able
to detect if there were any noises maybe

that we should be looking at? I did
sense a couple of different energies.

an older female from the time period of
the early 1900s. And then there was a

young male energy that I also want to
check out and see why he's here, why

hanging around.

Let's do it.

Almost immediately, Bobby's equipment
began to register something.

Look at it, look at it, look at it, look
at it, look at it.

Strong, strong activity.

Paranormal investigators contend that
spiritual beings allegedly emit an

electromagnetic field that registers on
an EMF meter.

Now what I want to do is try to get it
intelligent.

So let's back up for just a second, can
you?

So I want to see if you can activate
this just again. From what I understand,

you move your energy by this like you
just did, it'll light this up. Can you

that again for me?

Can you just light this up for me?

There's nothing that would set that off.

There's a plug -in up here, but I mean,
even on a plug -in, if that were active,

it's not going to affect it from way
down over here. But we know that none of

this is picked up, so... Right.

Who is this?

Here we go. Here we go.

Can you tell me who you are?

What's your name?

Why are you still here?

Can you stop lighting these for me?

Can you...

Just stop lighting there. Thank you.

Generally, as you're trying to manifest,
you can affect the temperature.

Make this start going into the 60s. Make
it very cold and show your presence.

Oh, did you see that? Look at it. 65,
62, 60.

There we go. Keep doing that.

52. It's all over the place.

Keep doing that. Can you keep doing
that?

Can you tell me who you are?

58?

Who are you?

Can you just let me know who it is
that's here?

Can you make some kind of a noise in
here or some kind of a bang or not?

Hang on just a second.

I'm sensing somebody around me now,
though.

Like right here over my left side.

He's a big guy.

Is there somebody in here with us?

Can you make that noise again?

Tell me that you're here.

Did you hear that? Yeah, it did sort of
sound like a knock on the wall, but I've

heard it a couple of times. I don't know
if...

This corner down here.

Is it the window, do you think? I don't
know.

Oh,

just over here, though. There you go.

There's a lot of orbs there.

Robbie captures what he thinks is the
image of an orb in exactly the spot he

detecting the male presence.

An orb is believed to be the initial
manifestation of a developing spirit.

With all the evidence, Bobby is
convinced that there is a male presence

room with us, but our search is for
Bell, so we head further down into the

building to continue our investigation.

What's in there?

Just nasty stuff.

I don't even want to go in there.

Shall we head in there?

Jesus Christ.

I saw a figure walking up through there.

Hello?

Hello?

I don't want to, but... I think you need
to be careful there, Bobby. I don't

think that staircase is particularly
safe.

There's some nasty stuff down here.

It's those, again, the only best way I
can describe it, and I've come across

them before, that in these dark
recesses, it's those

golem -type creatures.

It's really strong over in this corner.

It's just really making me
uncomfortable, and I just kind of want

away from here.

Bobby was feeling some very nasty, dark
energy down in the basement.

So we went back upstairs to rejoin the
Indiana ghost trackers. Maybe they had

experienced something similar here.

We've been getting a lot of stuff with
the K2, and the temperature has been

dropping down. It's usually 75, and it's
been dropping down in the 60s and the

50s. Okay.

What does this do, Rene, that you're
holding here? This is another way to

measure any disturbance of
electromagnetic field.

What would you expect that to do, Renee,
if there was something you were

interested in? A lot of times the needle
will swing back and forth, and

sometimes it'll bounce up and down at
once.

You want to come in here for a second,
Mike? Sure.

My ears are ringing just as I came
through that door.

You getting something?

Just as I came through that door, my
ears started ringing really loud. Hang

hang on. We got this activity here.

Is coordinating with this. Look at how
it's vibrating.

Yeah.

And now it's gone.

Hang on a second. Over here.

Here it goes.

Come on. Come back. Come back. Come
back. Come back.

Where are you?

Where are you?

It's over here.

There we go.

And there goes the compass.

Okay, now we see that really bouncing up
and down there, Rene. That's not your

hand. No, that's not. We've got four or
five instruments, and they're all

telling us, well, they're all trying to
explain something to us, so in a sense,

there's got to be something going on in
here. There's something going on in

here. What is the presence of Bell that
the instruments were picking up?

We had lots of equipment doing lots
of...

unexplainable things, and Bob was very
much convinced that there was an energy,

something following us around.

So the school itself was a little bit
disappointing for me. I thought it was

interesting, but it didn't feel to me
like a place where you're wandering

in history, desperate to reach out and
touch. It didn't speak to me in that

The calm and happy domestic life that
Belle was building for herself in La

didn't last long.

One day, her daughter, Jenny Olsen, came
downstairs to find her mother screaming

horribly because a meat grinder had
fallen on top of Peter Gunness' head and

split it open. When he died, I believe
there was an insurance policy, and she

scored again another death and more
money.

Bill realized that there was good money
in this.

Chances of apprehension were very
minimal. By placing lonely hardsats in

newspapers, Belle began luring single,
wealthy men to her hog farm.

Come to La Porte, bring all your money,
and we can start an amazing life

together forever.

The number of victims started to rise,
and each new victim brought Belle

increased wealth.

With the evil spirit of Belle remaining
elusive, I arranged for Bobby and I to

meet someone I hoped would help further
our journey.

This is Marcus Griffin's house.

He's a La Porte local, has lived here
for a long time, and he's very much

immersed in the legend that has become
Belle Gunness. I think he's going to be

very interesting for us to talk to,
because he's going to be able to explain

little bit about that middle part of her
life.

At this point, shoot him ass.

quite a large fortune in her day's
standards but actually behind closed

yeah she had already killed several
people right so i think he's going to be

able to help us to understand that point
in her life well if we're talking to

him let's go okay

It seems very unusual to think of a
woman in that time having such a taste

murder. Where do you think she developed
that from?

I'd say that she was money hungry first
and murder was just the means to an end

and she developed a taste for it. What
interests me is that this went on for

quite some time and nobody seemed to
notice. Why do you think that was?

I think people did notice.

And I think it was increasing.

But, again, at that time period, they
might not be as apt to stick their nose

other people's business. It seems like
the time that we're talking about now

pretty much the apex of her murderous
career, the double life that we've

about. What do you think started that
decline?

I think she possibly started realizing
she was running out of time, at least in

the report, that people were becoming
more and more and more suspicious of

Her lies weren't working anymore. Her
lies weren't working anymore, correct.

I want to talk about the paranormal
activity surrounding Belle Gunness.

don't think you can have that kind of
bloody rain.

massacre take place in an area where it
doesn't leave behind some kind of a

fingerprint, whatever that fingerprint
may be.

So we've had a chance to investigate the
St. John's School.

Oh, wonderful. Very interesting. And I
guess from here on out, we're looking,

where else do you think we could go that
could possibly evoke?

Her spirit. I guess anywhere that she
would probably frequent. Her favorite, I

know there was a favorite store that she
liked to go to.

I believe it's called currently It's a
Wonderful Life.

She'd spend her money there, her blood
money. The best word to describe is

darkness. There is a darkness to that
property.

With this insight, we traveled to the
It's a Wonderful Life mall, a store in

which Belle would have spent many happy
hours shopping with her blood money.

Would this investigation make contact
with the evil spirit of Belle Gunness?

Are you Belle Gunness?

Yes. She's here.

The St. John's School had clearly been a
haunted building, but seemingly not by

Belle Gunness. If we were going to
communicate with this cold -hearted

we needed to move our investigation
closer to a place Belle would want to

in the afterlife.

She would write some lovely letters
about how, you know, how much she loves

them, and please come down, sell all you
have.

She was writing eight to ten letters a
day, and while she was writing these

letters, she was also disposing of men
who came to visit her and brought their

cash with them.

Belle would kill them through means of
poison. Their remains would be tossed

and buried into shallow graves.

Truly a woman without a conscience, a
human monster.

We arrived at the ironically named It's
a Wonderful Life mall to begin our

second paranormal investigation.

Pretty cool place. Yeah, it's quite
nice, isn't it? The building hasn't

all that much since Belle Gunness would
have come here. So this building would

have formed.

A hub, if you like, somewhere that
people came to spend their money, and

was one of those people. So I think it's
going to be very important for us to

have a thorough look around here.

If we're going to get in touch with
Bell, this would be a good place to do

The building has stood as a store
serving the residents of La Porte for

years. With a long history of ghostly
activity, could one of these be the

of Bell Gunness?

Residing here in the very place she
lived out her dreams of wealth and

Hot tub.

This is a good room.

Oh, god damn. Okay.

So, George, this is the basement down
here.

It's a pretty big area, isn't it? Yes,
it is. There's been some strange things

that have gone on down in the basement.
Describe some of them for me.

We had a group in, and they were
standing in the area beyond the

one of the persons in the group saw a
figure behind some of the cardboard

Have you seen anything or had any of
those experiences yourself?

Not down here, but I did once up on the
second floor.

Explain to me what happened in here.

Several years ago, a customer was
shopping in this room and looking at a

and he moved into the other room, and
while he was in the other room, he heard

noise, and the table moved, he said,
three or four feet.

Wow. He came back in, frightened him so
that he ran downstairs and left the mall

and said he'd never come back again.

As night fell over La Porte, we prepared
to investigate the antique small,

appropriately named It's a wonderful
life.

Let's just start.

We have to start talking to him,
communicating him, getting used to our

and such.

If there's anybody in this room, can you
contact us and let us know that you're

here?

Is there anybody here with us?

Just move something or make some kind of
a noise.

Watch the image I just had in my head
when that siren went. Is that some of

spirits that are around here? There's so
many spirits that are around here.

The minute that siren hit, they shrunk
back from it.

If there's somebody here with us, can
you make some kind of a sound?

Tell us that you're here.

Can you speak into my tape recorder and
tell me who you are?

Anybody else hear like a faint
whispering there?

She's here.

She? Belle.

Back over there in the corner watching.

What confirms to you that it is Belle?

I tune into a certain energy when we're
doing our investigations.

And this matches...

what I've had so far.

She's just watching.

Belle!

I know you're here.

Can you come out and talk to us?

She's just staring, curiosity.

She's quietly just staring, curious.

Maybe we should just carry on.

Just let her tag along, and if she
decides to answer, if she can, we'll see

she feels. Okay.

Bobby wanted to investigate the energy
that he had detected earlier down in the

basement. Yeah. Feel better?

Hello?

Bobby believes that he's captured the
impression of an orb on the stairs.

this have been the spirit of Belle
following us?

Let's go down there. Okay.

Some guy calling out to me that was over
here.

Some scared man.

Scared man.

I don't know what he's doing here.

George explained to me that there was a
man who actually lived down here for

some time. The reason that I ask is I
know that a paranormal group who came

in this very part of the basement said
that they saw a figure and they

him as cowering behind the boxes.

That's pretty close.

Pretty close.

I just don't know why he's so afraid.

Do you want to go up to the shop floor?

Let's do.

Belle Gunness is here, and we can talk
to her, and the best place we're

going to be able to do this is upstairs
at your suggestion.

I think so. You're right.

Okay. Let's go.

This is the most uncomfortable part.
This is where I was.

Now that I feel it, this is the energy I
was feeling when I was standing out

there. Well, it's interesting you say
that because I was wandering around here

earlier just having a look at everything
about who we were going to be

investigating. And I came to the
staircase and the lights were on, but I

want to go up there. I mean, it's
nothing more complicated than that. I

didn't want to go up there.

It's a bad energy up there.

Regardless of my unease, Bobby felt it
was important to our investigation to

venture upstairs.

Yeah, this is it.

So this is, there's a man murdered over
in that corner.

Who's here?

Who's here? Hello?

Can you talk to me?

Oh, there we go.

Who's here?

What are you doing here?

Talk to me.

He's questioning me. It's a big guy.

Just repeating, what are you doing here?

Should we use the radio?

Yeah.

I'm going to put this radio here.

And the idea is for you to use the words
from the radio waves

to talk to it.

The Franks box is a paranormal
investigative tool that sweeps random

which allows spirits to communicate by
forming sentences using words that are

out there.

Are you standing?

Okay.

Is there somebody here with us?

What's your name?

here to investigate?

Have you ever heard of Bell Gunnett?

Yes.

Is Bell Gunnett here?

Yes.

What was the name of your first husband?

Although the Franks box seemed to be
responding, it wasn't clear what spirit

trying to communicate with Bobby.

As we headed down to the ground floor,
Bobby suddenly was convinced that

presence was with us, so we decided to
give the Franks box another go.

Are you first? Let's just start off
simply. Are you Belle Gunnett?

Let me ask again.

Because I thought I heard yes.

Bell, is this you?

Bell?

Yes. Was that your body they found at
the farmhouse?

That was clear.

Don't toy around with us, Belle.

This is your chance to say what it is
that you need to say. Don't mess with

She's smiling.

Belle, do you not want to talk to us?

Do you want us to go?

I think we walked in her footsteps
tonight and that that was very important

painting the picture and understanding
that this was the place that she went to

to happily spend her murderous booty, if
you like.

But I don't think that we're any closer
to rewriting the story of Belle Gunness.

I think we've still got a lot of hard
work to do.

The evening seemed to be a frustrating
disappointment, but later Bobby called

to his room as he'd reviewed the
footage.

it seems we were closer to having a
conversation with the spirit of Bell

initially thought.

Do you know who we are here to
investigate?

Have you ever heard of Bell Gunnett?

Are you Bell Gunnett?

Was that your body they found at the
farmhouse?

From everything we have learned about
this secretive and vicious murderer,

is now sure the only way we're going to
find the spirit of Belle is by

investigating the very farm where she
brutally hacked apart the lives of up to

40 men, women, and children.

Suspicions quickly arose that all was
not as it should be on the Gunness farm.

The heat was on Belle in April of 1908.
She was starting to panic.

preparing a way to escape, I think.

To lay the way, Belle began telling
anyone who'd listened that hired help

former lover Ray Lamphere was
threatening to set fire to her home out

jealousy over Belle's other men.

About 4 .30 the next morning, April
28th, The house erupted in flames.

The bodies of Belle's three children and
a headless woman were discovered in the

burnt -out remains of the farmhouse.

So this is it. All of this land around
here made up a large part of Belle

Gunness' estate, and in fact, where this
house is right here.

was where her barn stood.

Now what's significant about the barn,
rather gruesomely, is that that's where

she disposed of and cut up the bodies.

Do you want to go and take a look
around? Yeah, definitely.

There are other bodies buried here.

And I'm not so sure that I'm not being
drawn to this area because this might be

the area that they're drawn to.

Everything is just about where it's at.

The house where she originally stayed at
where the fire took place, I think is

this way a little bit more.

I can see image of her.

She was hefty.

Some of these men were smaller than her.

Mousy type of men, you know what I mean?

Not very strong, a little weak -natured,
very passive.

She was very strong. I could see her
killing in the house and then taking him

over to the shed to hack up and butcher.

This was a slaughterhouse for humans.

With the imprint of murder still fresh
on the ground, Bobby was sure we were

about to have an eventful evening.

Her eyes just turned a different color.
This is my cat as well.

Sometimes they're actually moving.

What can you say about a woman that is
such a monster?

We were now closer to the spirit of
Belle Gunness than we'd been so far on

paranormal investigation.

Bobby was sure that this was the right
location to finally have a conversation

with this infamous serial killer.

In the aftermath of the fire at Belle's
farmhouse, three dead children and the

body of a headless woman were found in
the smoking remains.

The problem with the headless woman that
was supposed to be Belle Gunness is

that Belle Gunness was somewhere between
5 '8 and 5 '9 and weighed close to 280

pounds. The woman that they found in the
fire, she was about 5 '4, 5 '5, and

only weighed about 120 pounds.

This does not look like Belle Gunness.

Speculation is that Belle may have
brought a woman in from Chicago a few

before the fire.

had a body double at the plant. The head
was never found.

She killed for personal greed.

To cover her tracks, she murdered her
children.

And then she faked her own death.

What can you say about a woman that is
such a monster?

We had invited the Indiana Ghost
Trackers to the sale, and as night fell

the farm, we were ready to begin.

We would like to welcome Bell Gunness to
join us.

If any of you could show us a sign of
your presence.

We have wind chimes behind us.

If you could move one of the chimes for
us.

Let us know that you're here.

There's a man standing just about 30 or
40 feet that way.

Thank you for joining us. What's your
name?

What's your connection here?

Are you the sheriff?

Another one behind me.

That's Belle.

Belle, if you're here, can you give us a
sign of your presence?

She's kind of just skirting around the
table.

How did it feel to murder your children,
Bill?

To take the lives of those poor little
innocent... She just said, I gave them

God.

How could you stomach what you did to
them?

You know, this is not God's will.

You know that as well as we all do.

To take those poor little innocent souls
and to murder them in cold blood.

How could you?

You're getting her riled up.

I just got a feeling like she could take
you on.

Well, show me, Bill.

You're a bigger woman than I am.

She's standing right on your right side
now, Mike.

She's also tracing on your shoulder.

where she would hack and cut off. It was
high up on the shoulder, and she's just

tracing with her finger.

Is it true that you fed a lot of your
victims to the hogs?

Yes.

Well, poisoning people was sort of a
coward's way to off them, don't you

She doesn't like you.

She just stared daggers.

Her eyes just turned a different color.
They went darker when she looked at you.

Why, though?

You pose a threat.

I can feel her presence there, and I'm
not a psychic. I'm not. Do you know what

I mean? But I can feel her standing
there.

And touch one of us.

Or make some kind of a noise or a sound.

Or extinguish one of the lamps.

Belle, you could move my compass.

She's just staring you down.

So you're too weak to move it, Belle?

She just called you a bitch.

She looked away in disgust and just
said, bitch.

I'm still waiting for you to give us a
sign of your presence.

I don't have to tell her anything.

Can you do something here?

So we're starting to wonder, really, how
powerful you were.

Those chimes should be easy enough to
move.

The torches should be easy enough to put
out.

The wind chimes are actually moving.
They're just not making any noise.

Were they moving like that before?

I didn't know. Not when we sat down.

I feel like we really need to get some
more answers from Belle. I think it

be very convincing. There are some
answers to questions that are quite

necessary.

Belle, how many folks are out here?

More than 40?

There's enough to have my own.

I can't get what she's saying.

And then the number I see after that is
35.

But that was what I was getting as well.

Who's that woman, Bill? Who's the woman
that you cut the head off of to, you

know, make it look like you?

The girl had come out to the farm quite
by accident. It was very fortunate.

That she came along when she did.

You know, we found her head in the privy
pit.

No, you didn't.

Never find it.

Is it in the swamp?

She turned and looked at you when you
said that.

Like her head snapped at you.

That makes her nervous.

But that was my favorite.

Are you afraid now, Belle?

You're moving away?

Have we just had a conversation with
this serial killer? If so, has Bobby

uncovered a secret that could finally
expose Belle and prove for certain that

she didn't die in the fire?

Hired hand Ray Lamphere was eventually
arrested for the fire at the Gunness

Farm. Although no one was ever convicted
for the murders of up to 40 men, women

and children.

Did Belle Gunness, America's first and
most vicious female serial killer, die

the fire alongside her children?

Or did she escape Laporte with her
stolen fortune?

Has a conversation with this serial
killer just revealed darting new

in a hundred -year -old murder mystery.