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♪

I had a class the other day where the professor talked

about how homosexuality was a mental illness,

how gay people are ridiculous

and they just want the limelight

and how we’re destroying the family.

♪

I want to get married and have babies.

I want to do it all, and I want to be happy,

but it’s really hard to leave something

that you’ve grown up in, and we’ve literally been told

since we can remember that, like,

this is what God wants.

♪

In many ways, BYU has been a really great fit for me.

Academically, it’s been wonderful.

Romantically, it has been awful.

Just because they have what, to them,

seem like justifiable reasons

for how they treat queer people

doesn’t mitigate the tremendous amount of pain

that it has put me through.

♪

Mm, I’ll put it on your side.

I identify as gay or queer,

but I’m just the stereotypical lesbian.

So I came out to myself when I was 16,

and I had no idea that other gay Mormons existed,

like, or if they did, like, they definitely have left

the church by now and everything.

Coming to BYU meant I could get back

into the spiritual mind frame

and I would be surrounded by it all the time,

and I would be surrounded by good Mormon people

all the time, and I could get back

to where I wanted to be spiritually.

At that point, I still was planning on

at least trying to marry a dude.

Either--I was either gonna be celibate

or marry a dude.

And, like, even if I dated a million boys at BYU,

like, if one of them worked,

if one of them was someone that I wanted to marry,

then good, that would work.

And I wanted to do the church thing,

and I wanted to do the not being alone

for the rest of my life thing.

♪

I am a comparative studies major here at BYU.

And my thesis is actually on how Greek and Roman myths

are reused in modern storytelling.

And I identify as a gay man as well.

LGBTQ issues at BYU, there’s a lot to say.

Uh, Mormons operate on a fundamental assumption

that homosexuality is wrong.

Heterosexuality,

a man and a woman falling in love,

is kind of the basis of what is right

and deviations from that

are broken, messed up,

and something that needs to be fixed.

So this statue is called "First Child."

Family is really important to Mormons.

It’s kind of like the center of our religion.

Uh, I mean, there’s God, there’s Jesus,

and then there’s the heteronormative family

with a man, and a woman, and a child.

And there are lots of really beautiful things about that,

how, really, you need to build up your family

and make it one of love,

both for the parents and for the child.

And there is...

I don’t know, there’s a lot of that that I really want.

It’s part of my culture as a Mormon,

a huge part of my faith, but it’s also kind of sad

that it’s just marriage

between a man and a woman.

It’s hard to feel like there’s not

really a place for you

when you don’t fit literally this image

and try to figure out just kind of where your place is

in the school and in this church, in general.

♪

Hello, everyone, and welcome to USGA!

My name is J.D. Goates.

Or at least that’s how I start

every single one of my meetings.

And let me tell you, if I don’t sound

like a gay vlogger, I’m not doing it right.

So I grew up in Orem, Utah.

Both of my parents work at Brigham Young University.

They’re chemistry professors.

My mother is Catholic, and my father is LDS.

So this is a very interesting thing for me.

I actually went to four hours of church every Sunday.

I know, you can all groan.

It’s okay, I did, too.

So I’m bisexual.

I identify as bisexual.

I’m still a Mormon in a variety of ways,

but I’m not at the same time.

Uh, I think the most accurate description

that someone has ever given me is a "cafeteria Mormon"

because there are things that I really do believe,

I really hold on to,

and there are other things

that I cannot fathom.

Um, my sexual orientation being one of them.

Am I worried about being kicked out?

The answer is every day of my life.

I know a lot of people, unfortunately,

that have been kicked out from their houses,

their families won’t talk to them.

Their friends, once they come out,

refuse to see them.

Their apartment mates, unfortunately, at BYU,

because of the Honor Code,

many queer students are harassed

and kicked out of their apartments

without any true justification.

I’ve been trying to figure it out, too.

I’m like, what is it about me, like,

how can you look at me and, like, use female pronouns?

I try to look in the mirror, I’m like,

"What gives it away?"

To me--and to me, I look like a guy, too,

because I don’t look anything like I did before

’cause I had such long hair

and, like, once my voice drops,

I will be a happy man.

That’ll be so great.

I never heard the word "transgender" until...

First, I came out to myself as gay.

That was, you know, after the mission.

So, I grew up LDS.

Ever since I was a little kid,

I always wanted to go on a mission.

Whenever I talked to missionaries,

they always seemed very happy, very just at peace

with who they were and what they were doing.

I started having more problems after an interview

with my mission president.

He just kind of sat me down in a room.

He was like, "You know, like, Sister Cano,

like, you are not-- you’re not very feminine."

And I kind of was like, "Yeah, I know that."

Like, you don’t need to tell me that.

He had basically told me that if I did not fix it,

if I did not become more feminine

and just kind of more appealing,

like, I don’t even know to say it that way,

that I wouldn’t get married and, like, in the church,

that’s something like if you don’t get married,

that’s gonna impact your salvation and your future

and, like, that’s what you’re here to do.

It was something that was very worrisome to me,

and I started feeling kind of bad about how I was

or how I am.

♪

I like how we’re just, like, all on our phones

but, like, bonding over a game on our phones,

and you’re just sad in the corner without--

-I am not sad. -All right,

let’s go cut your hair.

Okay.

But I want to connect with my friends, though.

-Oh my gosh. -My dad’s told me before

that Christ doesn’t care if I’m happy,

He cares if I have joy.

I believe the Scripture is 2 Nephi 2:25.

"Adam fell that men might be; and men are,

that they might have joy."

The reference there is joy is like

something like being in the presence of God.

That is like living with Him again

is what pure joy is,

and that’s what the point of life is,

is to be close with God again.

So it doesn’t matter if we’re, like,

super happy in this life.

The point is to get joy in the next life.

But I’m not, like, I don’t care

about what heaven will be like.

I don’t, like, I don’t care.

All I really care about is doing good

with the people around me right now.

It’s really important to me to have integrity

and be who I am and not be false.

And in order to take care of myself,

I can’t repress myself.

Not anymore.

I’m not gonna do it.

And, like, I’m not super hidden.

People know that I’m gay and people know,

but I can’t hide my relationship

from my family anymore, like, I don’t want to.

And after that, it’s like, okay,

I’m gonna want to be out,

but then they’re gonna know.

They might stop loving me, and I know

they’re not gonna stop loving me,

but, like, what if they do?

My family might get cut off from me after graduation

once I start being a hundred percent (indistinct).

Want me to shave your head now?

No.

Who’s next? Get in line.

♪

The way that BYU’s Honor Code is right now,

I cannot go to lunch

with my straight best friend

and not worry that someone is going to see me,

think I’m on a date,

and report me to the Honor Code Office.

The history of the Honor Code actually goes hand in hand

with the history of homosexuality at BYU as well.

So the Honor Code really developed

under President Wilkinson back in the ’60s.

A great loosening of society’s standards

have resulted in a serious increase

of homosexual practices in our society.

In a student body of 10,000 members,

we can probably expect to have a few

of these perverted individuals.

The dean of students has been given instructions this year

that students who engage in any practice of this kind

will not be tolerated on this campus.

This is the Wilkinson Student Center.

He pretty much lived through the Red Scare

and was deeply concerned about communism and socialism

and how it would destroy the world.

He decided that he was going to keep hippies

and communists and homosexuals out of his university

and make it a place of obedience and...

Yeah, pretty much just obedience, actually.

The wording in the Honor Code is somewhat ambiguous.

It’s not just sexual relations,

but any activity

that gives expression to homosexual feelings.

♪

-Ready? -Action.

"Brigham Young University will respond

to homosexual behavior

rather than to feelings or attraction,

and welcomes as full members of the university community

all whose behavior meets university standards.

Members of the university community

can remain in good Honor Code standing...

...if they conduct their lives in a manner consistent

with Gospel principles and the Honor Code.

One stated same-gender attraction

is not an Honor Code issue.

However, the Honor Code requires all members

of the university community...

...to manifest a strict commitment

to a law of chastity.

Homosexual behavior is inappropriate

and violates the Honor Code.

Homosexual behavior includes not only sexual relations

between members of the same sex...

...but all forms of physical intimacy

that give expression to homosexual feelings."

♪

I’ve heard different stories

about what that was supposed to mean,

but as it stands now,

the people that actually enforce the Honor Code

interpret it to mean any physical contact

between gay people.

So, holding hands, kissing, cuddling.

Even hand shakes, hugs, or staring too deeply

into the eyes of somebody else

could all be ways of signaling,

uh, you know, homosexual desire.

None of that under the current Honor Code

as it is interpreted by the people that enforce it

is permissible.

(indistinct chatter)

Don’t touch it, don’t touch it, stop.

-Stop. -How do they make it, though?

-I don’t know. -Didn’t you see the sign?

It said they made it with ice-cold water.

I really wasn’t planning on dating another girl,

at least for a while, if at all.

With Lex, we opened that communication up really well

from the beginning and we, like, went on dates

and saw if it was actually what we wanted

and everything and, like, which was really fun and cute.

Now, intentionally entering the relationship,

like, there’s been a little bit of--

there have been a few times I’ve been like,

"Ah, what’s going on? I don’t know

if this is what I’m supposed to be doing."

And I still am not a hundred percent, like,

I don’t feel like I’ve gotten God’s divine answer,

told me yes or not right now.

Um, but I also definitely don’t feel like

it’s been a no.

Oh, Brynn, so proud.

I’m not ready to leave the church yet.

I have too much hurt wrapped up in it,

too many emotions wrapped up in it.

And leaving right now, for me, would be

not dealing with things.

I don’t want to end up being the lesbian couple

that rediscovers the church and gets divorced

in order to come back.

And if I don’t deal with things beforehand,

I don’t know that that won’t be me,

um, and I’m not willing to let that be me.

That’s not what I want.

And if I choose not to get married

and I choose to stay with the church, that’s fine.

But if I get married, I’m staying married.

Right now, I just need distance from BYU.

I need to be able to be completely open

about my relationship, including in a church setting.

I need to feel like I can explore other churches

if I want to, which right now, that’s not an option at all.

♪

When I’m physically with her, it feels right, it feels good,

it feels like something that is making me

a better person, it feels...

...like the best thing in my life.

I feel like our ability to love

is one of the most precious things

we’ve been given from God,

and I don’t understand why He would’ve given

the ability to love,

not just to lust or to whatever,

but, like, to genuinely love someone else

and say that that’s wrong doesn’t make sense to me.

And I’ve become a better person

by being in a relationship, by loving people,

so why would that not be what God wants for me?

(indistinct chatter)

I don’t know, like...

I think I’m just so excited that I’ve, like,

passed my limit of excitedness,

and now I’m just...

I don’t know.

What do you know about hormones?

Um, about as much as the internet

can tell you, I think.

Well, that’s where all that came from,

so that’s pretty much everything you need to know.

How do--I always ask everybody that walks in here,

"How do you identify?"

Like, how do you identify yourself?

-As a transgender male. -Okay, so fully

on the other side of the spectrum

or the infinity of gender, right?

Right, somewhere over there.

It’s just a big step, you know?

And, then, I’m scared of getting kicked out

or having, you know, or having housing problems

and all that jazz, but...

Okay, that’s about 0.4,

where you want to inject every week, okay?

-So do you see my half line? -Okay, yeah.

Then you go right above that line.

-Yeah. -Okay.

You know, there’s this page on the LDS.org,

something of missionaries with, like, examples

of what missionaries should look like.

So, I was given as part of my study

to go on that page and to look at them

and see if I could copy how they were,

so that was interesting.

My mission president told me to pay attention

to how they stood and how they-- like, their stance.

He’s like, "You know, when you stand, when you sit,

when you gesture, when you talk, that’s--

it’s not--it’s not okay," is what he said.

It’s like I got the idea that it was almost offensive,

like, that’s how--and, you know, I was just like...

Like, I just felt so...

-I can’t. -Okay, but just remember,

you have to do this by yourself, okay?

So don’t even think about it, and I just want you...

Okay.

Okay, so all I want you to do is just to take

a deep breath in...

And, so, he was like, "And this is the thing

you need to change, but don’t worry.

With plans and with goals and, you know,

we can change this."

And I was like...

I’m thinking in my head, thinking, "I don’t know

if I want to change this."

Yeah, I’m also just happy.

Okay, that’s a good feeling, though.

♪

(indistinct chatter)

So, USGA stands for

Understanding Same-Gender Attraction.

It does not, however, stand for

the United States Golf Association.

So, a little bit about us.

Like I said, we are an unofficial group

which means we are not an official club.

We do not get money from the university.

We do not get support from the university at all.

USGA is also the reason why I stay at BYU.

It’s been my support system.

It’s been my family, been my friends.

It’s been the thing that gets me through the week,

thinking that I have this place to go.

(indistinct chatter)

Hello, everyone, and welcome to USGA!

My name is J.D. Goates.

I’m the president of USGA.

Here we have Gabe Cano, Liza Holdaway,

and Sabina Mendoza,

all of the wonderful presidency members

here to help you.

We’re so glad that you could join us

for our opening semester barbecue social.

So, USGA is an organization of BYU students.

It is an unofficial group, meaning it is not affiliated

with the university whatsoever,

but it is a group specifically devoted

to serving and improving and saving the lives

of LGBTQ and SSA,

same-sex attracted students, at BYU.

We began in 2010.

It started out very small,

meaning maybe 8 to 12 people tops,

and it eventually started growing.

(indistinct chatter)

To me, right now, USGA is functioning as a band-aid

for a huge problem at BYU, within the church in general.

LGBTQ people are born into Mormon households.

Most people inside Mormonism are not well-educated

on LGBT issues, they don’t know

how to treat LGBT people.

It’s just inherently there’s tension

and friction there, and that causes a lot of problems.

So, inevitably, queer kids end up at BYU,

and all of the issues of being just a normal college student

are then compounded with being queer

in a religious organization at a religious university,

and that causes a lot of negative side effects,

mental health issues, all sorts of things.

Back at BYU, I feel alone,

I feel unwanted,

I feel like everything I do is going to be watched

and evaluated on a different level

than it would be for anyone else

because I’m the gay kid.

USGA feels safe and warm and loving,

and they want me there,

and it’s not conditional.

And, so, to get to BYU and have these people

who understood my religious experiences,

understood my sexuality experiences,

they get it, and that’s really neat to see,

that I can exist through this, and I have a future

because they’ve been able to make it.

I probably wouldn’t be alive, literally,

if I didn’t have USGA and I tried to stay at BYU.

My goal when I became USGA president

was to get USGA back on campus

because USGA started on campus.

So, USGA got kicked off campus in the end of 2012,

beginning of 2013.

That was this whole big mess

involving the church headquarters in Salt Lake.

So, one of the frustrating things

when I became USGA president is I have learned

all of this information firsthand

from the presidency, who had been in the presidency

when USGA was kicked off campus,

from Senator Dabakis himself,

from anybody who I knew who had first-person knowledge

of some of those events.

And I would bring that information

and knowledge with me into my meetings,

and I would say, well, you know, blah, blah, blah,

"USGA was kicked off campus,"

and, inevitably, every single administrator,

if I talked to them about it, they would push back

or they would deflect, or they would say,

"Well, that’s not how I understood it happening,"

or whatever.

And, so, when the Working Group started,

in my mind, it was like, "Okay, we need

to figure out a way to get USGA back on campus."

So, I submitted the application for a club.

My idea was that it would be geared

towards changing the overall culture on campus.

So it wouldn’t necessarily be a group

for gay people to come together,

although, inevitably, it would have many gay people in it,

LGBT people, in general.

So I submitted that, and I was called in

by the dean of students, student life,

and I found out that there’s actually--

then, it was called a "task force,"

now, I believe it’s called the "work group"

of people that had come together

and were discussing how they can actually improve life

for LGBT students at BYU.

♪

So they met for a long time,

they met with a bunch of different students,

including the USGA presidency,

and then various other students throughout campus.

What they’ve done now to this point

is that they took my proposal and changed it.

Again, there are a whole bunch of administrators

who are all straight.

I think that they’re, for the most part,

well-intentioned, but they have

a limited understanding of the issue.

Allies were how I survived.

So, here are my tips and tricks to being a good ally.

As an ally, your job is to essentially be a microphone.

You are to amplify the voices of LGBTQ people,

not wash them out.

As an ally, you should work and speak

with LGBTQ individuals instead of for them.

"With" means you see LGBTQ individuals

as resourceful, as equals,

as people who deserve to have a voice.

I’ve talked with J.D. about his concerns

and about this group, and I think

that they’re very valid concerns, honestly.

He’s afraid that if they create this group,

USGA is destroyed because people will go

to that official venue instead,

and then they control that venue.

They could at any point just try to get rid of it.

Whatever reasons they may give,

they could destroy that, and USGA then would be gone

and it would be very difficult to start it back up again

after it has lost momentum.

One of the critical issues

that the Working Group was grappling with

was the very real divide there is

in the LGBT community at BYU.

There are people who have been involved

and invested in USGA,

have been in leadership positions in USGA

and have been working on that for years and years and years.

And, then, there are

typically more conservative LGBTQ students.

Often, they don’t use-- they don’t take

an identity like LGBT.

They’ll say "same-sex attracted."

They’re usually earlier on in their coming out process.

A lot of them are very convinced

that they will stay in the church long-term,

and a good number of them are pursuing

mixed-orientation relationships and marriages.

And those two camps, their narratives

are inherently threatening to each other.

And so they haven’t really gotten along,

we haven’t really gotten along very well.

And, so, the Working Group

was really cognizant of that issue

and was trying to figure out a way

that if we’re gonna do something at BYU

that’s officially BYU sponsored and sanctioned,

it has to be for all queer BYU students.

Now, BYU wants to form

its own LGTBQ group

and not take in USGA.

And the common reason is because by taking in USGA,

it would act as a barrier of inclusion

to people who don’t go to USGA.

Meaning, so there are "dozens and dozens"

of people that have talked to the administration

about how they would feel like BYU was abandoning them

if they brought in USGA.

"Dozens and dozens."

I believe that there are a lot of people that think that,

but their belief is that this mentality

is the majority of the LGBTQ campus population,

and I don’t buy that at all.

We’re not trying to convince anyone to leave the church.

Everyone is still allowed to make their own choices,

and we don’t really advocate for any choices.

USGA as a group is like pro-BYU and pro-LDS Church,

but other than that, we don’t really have

political or ideological stances

or things that we advocate for.

And that neutrality is something

that BYU is obviously-- has a hard time with.

BYU is not a neutral institution.

I mean, really, BYU exists because the church wants

well-educated individuals

who are committed to their faith

to go out into the world,

to be emissaries for the LDS church

and to be successful and, then, hopefully,

you know, be able to contribute back to the church,

to their communities, to the country.

And neutrality doesn’t fit into that mission very well.

But this would be, again, potentially game changing

because USGA, as long as it is on the fringe,

will be doing good for LGBT people.

It will help them be stronger and happier

and get them through BYU or out of BYU,

whatever they feel like they need to do.

But it’s not going to have the long-term power

of institutional change, and I think that this group

could be a fairly significant step towards that.

So, I personally think

it’s worth the risk of creating.

♪

(laughing)

♪

At this point, there is no longer a question

of whether a group is being formed on campus

by the BYU administration.

So this is not the question that is up for debate.

It is yes happening.

Definitely yes happening, for sure, we did it.

If there is a group being formed,

the question is, what role does USGA play in it?

And the question is, should we be a part of this,

or should we try and exist opposingly?

One thing that I had said to the Working Group

is that anything that does not include the merging of USGA

in some form, we will not support.

I’ll be honest, I got a little frustrated

because it didn’t feel like they were.

They kept asking, "Well, what does USGA want?"

And I kept--and I’d always been telling them.

It’s interesting because it could be

super, super great.

Um, you know, to have this on-campus thing,

it could be, you know, publicly advertised on campus.

I’d really love for, you know, USGA to be

as much a part of it as we can and to be able to say like,

"Hey, we are, you know, coming on to campus

to create this new group,"

and to be able to actually, like, merge it.

I really strongly do feel that it is worth it

to make a group on campus.

We’ll have a much wider audience

if we’re able to be on campus, to advertise on campus

to be at Clubs Night, to be able to put up posters

and stuff on bulletin boards around campus,

to be able to talk to those incoming freshmen

and say, "Hey, this is a group,

you know, if you’re LGBTQ, you belong here."

And so, like, this is a big deal.

So, an on-campus group is definitely happening.

There’s a lot of difficulties.

If USGA, you know, tried to remain separate,

one of the two would die.

It’d be really sad if USGA died.

It’d also be really sad if the on-campus thing died

because then, in the future, BYU administration could say,

"Oh, well, we tried and no one cared."

I just keep coming back to this question:

what is it about USGA that it cannot exist on campus?

I can give you the roundabout answer

that they’ve given me

that hasn’t really said anything,

but my interpretation of the answer is discrimination.

What they’re saying is,

"You’re not good enough as you are,

so we’re gonna make something for you,

and if you don’t want it, then screw you."

Especially because we’ve been applying to be on campus.

And it’s hurtful, it’s a slap in the face.

Um, I also see an issue of polarization.

I see an issue of this on-campus group

would become the "church gays," if you will,

and an off-campus group would become

a "anti-church gays."

So I said, "Okay, let’s do a listening Toulmin.

Why don’t you come to USGA and we have this listening?"

So one of the things that I said is,

"This meeting has to be completely confidential."

Whatever you say on Thursday,

I want it to be your own opinion,

and I want you to be honest.

I wouldn’t necessarily suggest being like,

"Oh, hey, I have a girlfriend,"

unless it is like extreme--

like you feel that it is

like the linchpin to your argument or your story.

It’s annoying and it’s horrible,

but we kind of have to know our audience,

and we’re going in here,

and they already are scared of us

and don’t understand us and think that we are like

this anti-church crazed people.

And that’s how they’ve grown up

and that’s everything they’ve been taught,

so I think it’s gonna be our job to show them

that we are--a lot of us are very spiritual people.

Well, the problem--

I mean, what’s really interesting on this

is, like, this could be the only time ever

that a situation like this ever is experienced

where we have a white flag

of literally just share your experience.

That’s never gonna happen again.

You can’t just walk into the Honor Code Office

and be like, "Hey, I don’t trust you."

Like, you may live in fear constantly

of my existence, but you can’t do that.

And so, like, everything has to come out

of this meeting.

Are they gonna explain what they’re planning on?

Like, if they’re gonna say, "We’re gonna have committees,

we’re gonna have activities, we’re gonna have..."

-None of that is planned. -Let me tell you

exactly what they’re gonna say to that:

"I don’t know what it’s gonna look like.

It’s gonna be whatever the students decide it

to look like."

(shouting)

(indistinct chatter)

♪

(sighing)

It’s really complicated.

I think that the answer to just change the Honor Code

and let gay people date and, you know,

totally open that up

would be nice, but...

...the idea of marriage between a man and a woman

is so deeply rooted now

in our religious and campus culture

that we can’t really just do that

so simplistically.

It’s gonna take a lot more

before something like that actually happens.

And, honestly, I don’t even know

if it’s necessarily the best thing for BYU.

We want to have a diverse campus

where people can feel safe and they can feel welcome,

but at the same time, the whole purpose of BYU

is to create a place

where people are going to support church policies,

church doctrine,

and that’s what makes BYU special and different

than other state-run universities, for instance,

and other private universities.

And to allow gay people to, uh,

you know, openly date and marry

would, in some ways, detract

from that ideal.

And I think we can’t really ignore

the very real consequences of what these policies do

to our students.

They do create a whole bunch of mental problems,

mental illness,

and they do cause people to commit suicide at times.

But, yeah, as long as our doctrine

is that God has said marriage is between a man and a woman,

uh, I don’t know if we really should change

the policies on campus

’cause then it wouldn’t really be BYU anymore.

(bells chiming)

(indistinct chatter)

You wanted to play games at theme night.

(indistinct chatter)

(unintelligible)

We could play PDQ.

I’m really, really bad at it, so...

I’m so good at it that it’s like...

Police car.

For so many people, BYU and Utah, especially,

are, like, the Promised Land

even more than Utah people themselves

see it that way, right?

Like, if you can just make it to Zion,

like, everything is gonna be okay.

If you go to BYU, everything is gonna be okay.

That’s how I felt.

And then it wasn’t.

The first thing BYU needs to do

if they ever want to be a safer space

for queer people, they’ve got to get rid of the Honor Code.

Like, or at least really, really drastically change it.

I mean, it’s so crappy that at this point,

anything is gonna be an improvement.

A clarification on the Honor Code

would be an improvement,

but especially the setup of having

a different Honor Code for queer people

than for straight people, like, is so wrong.

Like, they can’t even start doing anything different

until they do that, and they’re like,

"Hey, we’re gonna get this on-campus group

and it’s gonna be great," and I’m like,

"How about you do something actually helpful

because we have a group."

I’m on meds, so I should be fine.

(unintelligible)

Right? New life motto.

"I’m on meds, so I should be fine."

-I’m on new meds. -Me too.

Oh, man.

I’m glad my laugh finally dropped, too.

It was so funny when I would laugh

and then it would be, like, in my old voice.

Oh, man.

Yeah, oh, I’m excited about it.

I’m starting to get a little bit

on, like, the bottom of my jaw.

And then my chin, my chin was longer.

It was quite long, and then I had a meeting

with administration, right?

And, so, actually, I couldn’t bear to shave it

and so I actually took, I was like,

I didn’t know if it was gonna work,

so I was like, "If it looks bad,

I’ll just shave it off," but I took scissors

and I just carefully trimmed around,

and I actually got it all the same height.

It was--I thought I did pretty good.

And, so, then, it was really-- it was just really short

and then it wasn’t so sad, you know?

(indistinct chatter)

Right, so every week, I can sing a note lower, like...

-It goes fast. -It does go fast, yeah.

So, I went into the court, and I remember

kind of wishing that I’d brought a friend with me

because it was, like...

I thought it was just gonna be, like, me

and the judge or something, but, no,

that place was full.

There were, like, 50 people in there

that the judge had to see.

And they went through, we all have

the same 2:00 appointment, they were all there,

and they just kept going up and up.

I’d never been to something like this,

like, I’d never watched anything like it,

so it was really interesting, actually.

Anyway, so all the people are going up,

and I ended up being the very last one,

which I was grateful for, right,

so I didn’t have to be up in front of everybody

and kind of out myself, you know?

And, you know, the judge calls you up by name,

but with me, he didn’t say my legal name,

he just said my last name.

So he was like, "So, now we will do the Cano matter,"

I think something like that is how he did it,

so he didn’t have to say my name

or a Mr. or a Mrs., you know?

So up I went, you know, I was the last one.

He was very nice, he was like, "Hey,

like, it’s good to have you here.

I just want to ask you a few questions.

So, how’s your transition going?"

Used all the right language, like, perfect, you know?

And I was like, "You know, it’s been going great."

He’s like, "So, what have you done medically

to transition," and I was like, "Oh,

so I started hormones so many months ago."

And he’s like, "How has that been for you?"

And I was like, "Oh, it’s been great."

And he was like, "Well, great.

So, Mr. Cano, right?"

And I was like, "Yeah."

And he was like, "Okay.

So, that’s it.

I’ll sign this," blah, blah, blah.

It took, like, two minutes.

That’s basically the whole thing.

And, then, two days later,

I went and picked up the court order.

The day after that,

I went to the Social Security Office

and, like, I just never used to keep

my social security card with me,

and I just, like, I keep it with me

’cause I just like looking at my name on there.

So I’m really excited about it,

and I show it to just about everybody who I like,

my social security card.

♪

So this is the Harris Fine Arts Center.

This is the home for a lot of LGBT students.

Not every place on campus is as homophobic as others.

My particular department is actually pretty good.

I’m out to most of my professors.

I can bring up discussions about queer themes in class

and discussions, and it’s actually really nice

to be able to be so open.

And a lot of the people in the HFAC

have a similar case.

But other majors are not so kind.

Math, engineering, the hard sciences,

it’s actually a lot more difficult

for people in those majors,

and they can often feel, uh, ostracized,

hear homophobic comments from classmates

or even professors.

So, we are, in some senses, a campus divided.

♪

I’m very stressed about tonight.

Theoretically, it will be great

and it will be the first time we’ve had

like a white flag and it will be, um,

like this really great kind of like thing

that’s never happened before.

We’re kind of making history tonight,

the fact that we’re coming together

and we are completely safe to say whatever we want.

That’s a big deal.

That’s really big.

Who knows if it’s actually completely true?

I think we probably still should be careful,

but, theoretically, like, that’s a big deal.

But I’ve never been excited about them getting rid of us

to replace us with someone else on campus.

I’ve just never been happy about it,

never been really okay with it.

And I don’t really trust most of the people involved.

They’re good people,

but they’re not us, I guess.

I’m kind of gonna be attacking them.

I don’t trust them, I don’t appreciate

what they have done till this point.

I mean, I appreciate that they’ve tried,

but they haven’t done enough,

they haven’t done it well enough,

and if they really cared,

things would have happened before now.

There’s a lot I want to say, but I don’t know if I will

just because I don’t want to get on their bad side

because we need to keep on good terms

if they want to keep working with us.

And it’s just playing this game of politics

that I just hate.

When this on-campus group starts up,

there isn’t really gonna be demand for two groups.

They’re not gonna both be sustainable,

so either, you know, USGA will need to move

to this group and support this group,

or if it remains separate, one of them will die.

But, hopefully, with this discussion,

we can really make sure that this new on-campus group

will be actually a safe and comfortable place

for the USGA members to go.

Um, okay, so one of the kind of rules

to be here tonight is that we all need to agree

that nothing said will be shared.

(unintelligible)

...go out and say, oh, well, you know,

so-and-so just said all this.

Please don’t do that.

We also ask that you not take anything said tonight

to the Honor Code Office or to ecclesiastical leaders.

We ask that no one take any audio or visual recording

of this meeting.

If that’s not something you can agree to,

please step out now.

You can take pencil and paper notes.

So, talk to us about what happened tonight.

What do you think went well?

What do you wish went better?

That was a lot more emotional than I thought it was.

Um...

I, like, found myself on the verge of tears

a lot more than I thought I was going to be.

I’m so mad. I’m so mad!

Um...

We’re mixed on if we should go on campus or not.

We’re kind of resigned to it, though.

Um...

We aren’t safe.

No one feels safe.

I think that’s the general consensus.

-Okay. -I hope they listened.

I wish they would give a damn ’cause they were

just sitting there and be like, "Okay, yes."

Like, "Okay, sure, okay."

They looked so distant and so separated.

This isn’t fucking about you.

This is not...

Like, this is a fucking big deal.

Can you not tell?

Did you not feel that like I did?

It’s like missionaries sitting in the room

where they’re just like, "The spirit was so strong,"

and the person sitting in there is just like,

"I don’t feel it."

Like, it’s that level of offensiveness

that I feel right now.

Like, I hope to death that they felt that

and that it made a difference to them

because there was a strong feeling in that room.

There was so much emotion, so much honesty,

and so much vulnerability

which is stronger than any spirit out there.

And if they did not feel that...

I guess there’s not anything you can do about it,

but I’ll be so fucking pissed.

So this is the basement of the Harris Fine Arts Center.

So this is considered the second

of BYU’s witch hunts for gay students.

BYU Police, the campus’s own police force,

came in and pulled out any male student

in theater or ballet,

because they thought that there was a homosexual ring

occurring on campus.

And they would interrogate them

and ask if they were engaged in homosexual activity,

if they knew other homosexual people.

And some people, again, confessed,

and it didn’t end up terribly well for them.

Other people were silent.

But BYU Police, particularly in the late ’70s,

was doing a lot to try and find

and remove homosexual students from BYU.

They even did sting operations

where they would put out letters

in gay newspapers in Salt Lake

asking if other BYU students wanted to form a group

and then find people that responded,

they would investigate and usually expel.

They even put an undercover agent, as it were,

to respond to one of those letters,

found another gay person, 22 years old.

This undercover man convinced him

to drive up to Provo Canyon.

When the gay man, young man,

made sexual advances,

the undercover man cried out

and brought a swarm of police onto that guy to remove him,

and he was charged with forcible sodomy.

Probably wasn’t so forcible,

but that was what they charged him with.

Sodomy, which was anal and oral sex,

was illegal in Utah until 2003.

Yeah, things have be moving remarkably fast

in the last few decades.

(cell phone vibrating)

Um...

Are you okay?

Everything is okay right now.

Are you sure?

I mean, we’re all an emotional wreck,

but we’re safe right now.

Who was the Honor Code violation called on?

Was it just you?

No, all three of us.

-All three of you. -Mhm.

There’s no, technically, Honor Code right now,

it’s just an Honor Code violation of housing.

-Oh, of housing. -Yeah.

What is your violation, though?

Just not...

Um, yeah, the letter said something

about obscene, lewd, or offensive conduct

or something like that.

Oh, yeah, "obscene, indecent, erotic, or offensive."

I have no idea.

They won’t talk to us, so...

-Hello. -Hello.

Come on in.

Yup, we just haven’t heard anything!

-So weird, right? -Yeah.

You guys were, like, friends with most of them, weren’t you?

Yeah.

We had a meeting with them last Monday

after our ice castle date, and like--

What were they concerned about?

Um, "The spirit is gone from the apartment,"

-and yeah. -It was a lot.

It was a lot.

We all had, like, expectations set up

and what the boundaries were gonna be

and who was safe and who wasn’t in their lives

so that we would know when they were coming over,

and they seemed totally, 100% okay with everything.

But then they moved out two days later

without talking to us.

So tomorrow, we’ve got a meeting with them

to figure out what’s going on,

’cause they left us all letters.

Property management.

They all have that.

They’re all, like, stuck in the door.

With a cute little Raintree Commons header.

"Three-day notice to comply or vacate.

All students and residents

shall be required to conduct themselves

in a manner consistent with the BYU Honor Code,

including abstaining from possessing, serving,

or consuming alcoholic beverages.

Involvement with gambling, pornographic..."

the rest of this line is highlighted:

"...erotic, indecent, or offensive material,

obscene or indecent conduct or expressions,

disorderly or disruptive conduct,

or any other conduct or action inconsistent

with the BYU Honor Code.

Students are expected to keep--

or help their guests and other residents."

Blah, blah, blah, "keep the Honor Code.

Please be advised, within three days of this notice,

you must either one, comply with the terms

of your contract; two, vacate the apartment,

which does not release you

from your contractual obligation.

We’ll follow up if you fail

to take any of the three steps listed above by Thursday.

Action will be taken to evict you

from the apartment."

Us being together is "erotic, indecent,

or offensive material,

obscene or indecent conduct or expressions."

On the letter, it said that if we don’t comply or whatever,

we need to be out by Thursday.

At which point, we’ll still be responsible

for paying rent for the rest of the contract.

So...

Let’s see what happens!

In a week, either things

will be really okay and resolved,

or they’ll be real bad and we won’t be living here.

And hopefully we’ll still be in school.

♪

(indistinct singing)

♪

Okay.

Great job, that was very exciting and fun.

They are interested in doing another meeting with us.

The idea is that it would be--

once the Working Group has come back together...

So currently, the end goal is still the group.

Yeah.

So they didn’t listen.

Stupid.

Well, these committees were decided before the event.

Yeah.

Yeah, in our little Working Group meeting yesterday,

we were talking about stuff

and Deb--it was funny that she brought it up,

that Deb brought it up, she was like,

"Well, why can’t USGA just cover it all?"

Did they have an answer for her?

No, there’s no adequate answer ever.

These people have PhDs!

These people are college-educated,

straight white people.

Why are they not using their privilege

to not be idiots?

(laughing)

It’s still a mystery/arbitrary mess.

This wasn’t based off of-- and I’ve been told this,

this wasn’t based off of qualification.

Why wouldn’t it be--

Right?

(mixed chatter)

Why wouldn’t we want qualified people?

-I know. -It’s based on what Brynn said,

people that made them feel warm and fuzzy inside.

-We’ve done that! -We have answers for them!

Start endorsing us and then work from there.

They can make a website that says BYU and Gay

and whatever the other political things they want,

but they need to actually endorse something

that is feasible and existent and helpful.

Is this a resource for queer students

or is this a resource for all the straight people

to learn how to be okay with us?

Oh, wow, that’s a real good question.

Write that down.

I guarantee you that USGA will not be linked to this

-in any way, shape, or form. -This doesn’t sound

like it’s for queer people at all.

What is this for at all?

It doesn’t seem like it has a purpose.

I would like there to be a page that says,

"Hey, kids, when your roommate comes out to you, be cool."

Like, I want that to be on there.

But this isn’t a resource for us.

I can’t be as authentically happy as I want to be

with my parents.

Because I feel like-- I still feel like

they might turn me in.

If I started dating guys and I did that weird thing,

and then like was like, "I’m gonna do the Mormon thing.

I want to get married in the temple,

I want to do this,"

and my parents were so happy and proud of me.

And I had their, like-- not their love,

because I’ve always had their love,

but like, they were proud of me.

And that is something I thought I would never get again,

because I would get As, I would get fives on AP tests,

I would do well at things, but like...

but there was always like, "But you’re gay."

But if I just could get over it,

then I could have my parents’ approval again

just like I always had.

I’m like my dad’s favorite kid,

and like, he’ll never say that,

but I was the oldest, or am the oldest,

and there’s just that connection there

that we have that--

he has different ones with all of his kids,

but like there’s that one that we have.

And so my dad has always been very important to me,

and so the fact that he was proud of me,

I was just like, oh, my gosh,

this is like everything I ever wanted.

I started having anxiety and that was freaky,

because I was being inauthentic to myself again,

which was so hard, which sucked.

Trying to, like, live with pleasing other people,

I think that’s what mostly caused it to explode.

Looking in the mirror and not being happy with myself

for whatever reason.

The combination of those things.

(mixed chatter)

(laughing)

Yeah, that’s her.

Cute!

For you to see.

She’s really great, and really, really good to me,

which I’m not used to, so...

All right, so, you’re not in your old apartment.

-What happened? -We’re not in our old apartment.

We moved mid-school week and still have been expected

to get all of our homework done and everything,

which has been fine.

I’m a little bit behind on everything.

And then on Friday, I think,

we got--only Lex and I had these official BYU

envelopes in the mail.

And I was like, "This could be the official notice

that we’re going to hell."

And we open it up,

and from the BYU Honor Code Office,

it was this letter from our bishop

saying that we may have our endorsements withdrawn

if we didn’t contact him and figure things out.

He was basically like, "Okay, so as soon as

you move into your new place,

you need to immediately contact your new bishop,

and I will be in contact with him,

and if you don’t talk to him, then I will make sure

your endorsement gets withdrawn."

I don’t know how long it takes for him

to contact the Honor Code Office

and be like, "Hey, withdraw their endorsements,"

before they send out the letter and before we get it

and all that type of thing, so he could’ve sent it out

the day that they decided to move out

or before then or who knows?

It’s just like, it keeps being

like one more thing after the next,

so hopefully everything is settled right now

and won’t be an issue again after we contact our new bishop.

But it could also be the next thing

is a letter from the Honor Code Office

being like, "Hey, someone reported you to us

and now you’re on our list to..." whatever.

Have a hearing for or whatever it happens to be, so...

I don’t know.

So this is...

you know, I only know it by its acronym.

It’s the MARB.

Hopefully there’s no class in here.

Doesn’t look like it.

So this is where USGA had its first large panel.

It was back in 2012,

and it at first was going to be a small sociology panel.

They were just going to invite people

from the sociology department to come in

and listen to the actual experience

of LGBT BYU students.

They made some fliers to help advertise it.

Basically, it just said,

"Everything you ever wanted to know

about gay BYU students but were too afraid to ask."

It blew up.

They had a Facebook invite and the word just got out.

It was huge.

Every seat in this room was filled.

The people were sitting in between the seats,

everywhere they were standing around,

and there was a line out both doors

and the doors behind it, everybody trying to cram in.

In the end, somewhere between 500 and 600 people

came to this panel.

And it was really the first of its kind.

There had been such a strong taboo

against people speaking out about their sexuality.

The fact that they had two gay men,

a bisexual man, and a lesbian woman

all sitting together and just talking

about their own experiences was really unprecedented.

I’m kind of nervous there’s, um--

they’re going to announce it soon,

but BYU is doing an LGBT panel

on March 15th.

And so--no, you haven’t heard about it.

It’s, oh, I’m so excited.

I’m going to be one of the panelists

along with a few others.

This is like Working Group people,

so I think I might be the only one

from USGA on there.

I think a lot of people will probably go to this.

It’s gonna be Thursday, March 15th at 11 and at 7,

so it’s gonna take the place of USGA on that Thursday.

Every time I think about it,

my gut, like, flips over,

because I don’t want to come out as trans

to a bunch of people.

Somebody needs to come out as trans at some point

for people to get to know-- so that it can be safe

for people to come out in the first place,

there has to be someone.

I didn’t know I was-- that they were thinking

of putting me on it, and then Liza was like,

"Yeah, I think we’re gonna have you on it, Gabe."

And I was like, "Oh, I’m the invited heathen,"

or something, you know.

I’m acting, right, on my transness,

and so that kind of automatically puts me

at a certain heathen status.

You know, if we want to use that word,

I know it’s kind of ridiculous,

but it makes me laugh.

I’d been thinking, last night as I was going to bed,

I was thinking of, you know,

maybe things that I shouldn’t say

in front of an audience at BYU

where it’s, like, kind of BYU approved, sort of.

I’m trying to figure out where the line is

so that I can go up to that line, you know?

And not end up being not dishonest,

but I want to be as forthcoming and as honest and clear...

I don’t like that thing where we go on panels

and we don’t really tell the kids what’s up,

or the students, they’re not kids.

But I also don’t want to--

I don’t want to ruin it if they’re like,

"That one kid went way too far!

We’re never doing this again!"

I’m gonna have to talk to a few people

and figure out what that line is

so that I can be as honest as I can

without crossing any lines and upsetting people.

This is the first event on campus

sponsored by the BYU Student Association

where LGBT students and faculty members

can openly discuss what it’s like

to be gay at BYU.

At Brigham Young University,

students actively seek marriage and having a family,

but for students at the LDS Church-owned university

who identify as LGBTQ, the mold doesn’t fit them.

The problem is that people are dying at BYU.

And when people say really homophobic

and transphobic things,

we should confront that if we’re able.

Student Brynn Adams says the campus culture

is becoming more inclusive, but not fast enough.

I’m transferring at the end of this semester

because, at this point, that conflict is too great.

There are lots of LGBTQ and SSA students here on campus

and that it’s not us versus them.

Like, we are here.

We are part of the "us."

A second forum will be held tonight

at the Varsity Theater here on campus at 7PM.

(mixed chatter)

Well, I’m about to go into the second session of our panel

on LGBTQ--our LGBTQ and SSA panel at BYU.

The first one was at 11 in the JKB,

so just over there, and it was full.

Like the room, there are people sitting in the front,

standing on the sides, and the overflow was full, too.

It was great!

I was super nervous going up to it,

and so when I was there, I was, like, walking all around

and just not even sure what to do with myself and stuff,

but once we got started and Kate made them all laugh.

And you know, and then I’m like,

these people are chill and cool,

and then I felt a little better.

Best case scenario, hopefully conversations.

That’s what I hope people are doing

is just talking like, "Hey, did you go to the panel?

What did you think?

What did you think of this person

and their responses?

Isn’t that interesting?"

And I want people to hear that,

that there is conversation happening

and that it’s okay to talk about.

One guy in particular who just came up to me

and said, "Thank you so much

for being willing to share that."

He identified himself as a member of the community,

and said, you know,

"I have never understood trans things,

and I never thought I would,

and I always kind of thought it wasn’t a--

you know, wasn’t really--"

I don’t know, that’s at least--

he didn’t say exactly that,

but that was the feeling that I got,

and then he was emotional

and there were tears in his eyes,

and I was crying, too, you know.

It was cool to see that

even if everybody hated me after that,

if that one person felt touched,

you know, it is worth it somehow.

♪

(mixed chatter)

♪

I feel a little bit weird

and nervous about moving on in general.

So much of my identity has been built up

in being a gay Mormon at BYU.

That’s really where all of my social circles were.

That’s where most of my advocacy came from.

It’s, you know...

-There he is! -Being queer

was what made me me,

because it had to be.

I had to make it a big deal here.

And now I’m moving to a place

where it doesn’t have to be a big deal.

And so that’s gonna be weird for me.

James David Goates.

♪

I am worlds removed from who I was

when I first came to BYU,

’cause I feel like a lot of the experiences

that shaped me at BYU were, like, awful things

that I went through that had to teach me

that changing myself for someone wasn’t gonna work out.

And so to now be in a place where my family

isn’t necessarily in support of my relationship,

but they’ve met my girlfriend and they haven’t cut me off,

like I still talk to them.

I talk to my mom as much as I used to

and it’s still normal conversation.

They know that I am in the process

of leaving the Church and joining another.

They are not excited about any of that,

but I couldn’t ask that from them anyway.

They’re humans and they--

I’m leaving something that they love

and that’s really, really hard.

But that we’re able to have a conversation

and not just yell at each other

from opposite sides of the table

and then walk away and never want to see each other again.

We still have a relationship.

Through all these changes that I’ve been through,

through being honest with myself

that I still have a relationship with my family,

I can be gay and be a college grad

and be successful and have a family that loves me.

That I have the support of my sisters,

the love of my parents

is crazy to me.

It’s not something I ever thought I could have.

♪

(indistinct conversation)

Yeah.

Why are you leaving BYU?

Why did you transfer?

Because I would have died if I stayed.

I would have spent every bit of life force that I had

trying to change everything and save everyone,

gay and other minorities,

and I would have completely exhausted myself.

I would have ended up killing myself.

I just know that.

I didn’t have the energy to fight them

every single moment of every single day like that.

But really, in a year, BYU changed me so much.

I am not the person I was.

And in some ways, I’m sure I’m better

and stronger and whatever, but like,

I’m also a lot more angry and a lot more jaded

and a lot more bitter,

and that’s not who I ever wanted to be.

And in order to keep myself alive,

I had to become those things.

And if I had stayed another two or three years

or whatever it took to get my degree,

if I had stayed alive during that time,

I would’ve been a very dark, angry person

in order to have stayed alive,

and that’s not fair.

I think transferring would be very good for me.

I’ve looked into it, and it’s not going to work out.

Like I kind of like-- I like Provo, you know?

I really do.

It’s a nice town,

it’s got a mountain right next door

I can go running in, I like Center Street.

People can laugh at me, but I like it here.

Just take off that square that’s BYU and throw it out,

and Provo would be great, you know?

And that sounds pretty harsh.

BYU is my school, it’s where I’m getting my education.

I have a lot of people I love there,

but it’s also-- I think I’m starting

to get to the point where being on campus,

just being on campus, even when I’m not in classes,

I feel different, like I don’t like it there anymore.

It’s becoming the memory of bad times,

and I think I’m starting to have a negative association

with just campus in general.

I’ve sort of had this identity

of the gay Mormon who’s been struggling

to sort of reconcile both parts of my identity.

And I feel like I’ve sort of reconciled them

as best I can at this point,

and I’m kind of looking forward to just letting go

of both of those things and just being me,

and just sort of living my life as a student,

as a Mormon, as a gay man,

and just not worrying about

the sort of conflicts between them

and just being.

I’m very much looking forward to that.

Thanks.

I’ll talk to you--I mean,

who knows when I’ll call you next week,

because I don’t have classes anymore.

So it’ll be a surprise.

Okay, I love you.

Yeah. Bye.

(sneezing)

Bless you!

I don’t think the idea of a church school is bad.

I think you could have one that could work.

I feel like I would describe something

that wouldn’t be BYU,

but it would have to be--

and I’m saying this for not just LGBT people,

Honor Code has to go really fast.

And then maybe like a trans health program

like the U has.

I still can’t get over that.

They have a trans health program.

Like, wha--

They love their students!

That’s the message I get.

I’m sure BYU does, too,

they just have a funny way of showing it.

And actually they don’t love all their students.

They really don’t, otherwise they wouldn’t be doing this.

Everybody deserves to be at peace and free.

I don’t know why BYU has taken it upon itself

to be the one that can take those away from people.

I just don’t get it anymore.

For a long time, I thought that gay people

could go to BYU,

and that it just wasn’t gonna work out for me.

I think I’m at the point right now

that I don’t think any queer person

should be at BYU.

Like, I think as soon as they possibly can,

they should get out, and I’m sorry that

it’s not an option for everyone to get out.

Like I want to be happy, I want to be able

to be fulfilled in all the ways that for so many years

I didn’t think were going to be an option.

I thought I was-- my plan was to be

a really, really cool aunt and travel a lot

and just do my thing by myself

and be the example in all my wards

and be this faithful pillar,

and I don’t want that.

I want to get married and have babies

and I want to do it all,

and now I’m gonna be able to on some level.

I want to never feel unsafe

like I did at BYU again.

(mixed chatter)

Hello, everyone!

Oh, come on, you knew that was coming!

I was recently informed--

because once I graduated, I stopped going to the meetings.

More accurately, I was disinvited from the meetings.

Which I was okay with, because I’m graduated

and it’s time to move on.

But what I’d heard was that the admins had come in

and essentially said, "It’s not gonna happen.

An on-campus group is not gonna happen.

Not right now, not in the foreseeable future,

but eventually, maybe."

It is a very special night.

It’s one of my favorite nights.

It is the testimony meeting,

and you’ll get to hear from me in the very end,

but Liza is gonna explain how this event is gonna go.

I think this on-campus--

I was gonna call it a failure, but I won’t call it that.

Setback.

We’ll call it a setback,

because if it was a failure,

that would mean that it would do worse,

but there is definitely progress that has been made

because of this on-campus thing.

That’s, without a doubt in my mind, that is true,

that we have made more progress than we ever have before.

But it’s very telling to me.

BYU doesn’t want to take something

that LGBTQ people have built for themselves,

and instead they want to make something

and be the savior.

The Board of Trustees said, "No.

We’re not, you’re not authorized

to create an organization, a student organization

for LGBTQ students at BYU at this time."

I think Steve Sandberg and other administrators

still have a lot of hope that it will happen

sometime in the next year or two or something,

but there’s no timetable for it.

I don’t--it’s almost like I don’t care anymore.

I’m dead serious when I say

that nothing damaged my testimony of the Church

more than working with the administrators of BYU.

Nothing. Period.

I’m coming to you to ask for help.

You’re in a position of power and authority.

I am hurting, and I’m not even hurting that bad,

but I am representing people and I’m coming to you

on behalf of people who are hurting real bad,

and you won’t do anything.

Maybe it’s really hard for you to do something,

maybe you don’t have a lot of power to do anything,

but you could at least, like, close up all your things

and just sit and be like, "Tell me more.

I care about this deeply.

You’re a student at this university that I work at,

I am in charge of students, and I care about you."

That didn’t happen.

The students were definitely convinced, right?

And, I don’t know, maybe this was their,

"Well, we’re gonna make them

feel like they’re going to do something about it,

but really we don’t-- we’re not ready for that."

And I’m sure whoever is out there

making these decisions probably doesn’t hate

the LGBTQ community.

Hopefully doesn’t hate us, but I don’t know.

If they were here, if they were--

if they really knew LGBTQ BYU students,

you know, I think they would realize

that what they’re doing is traumatic.

Or what BYU has been doing for a long time

has been inhumane, I would say.

I was lucky to know about USGA from day one.

I wanted to fight for people that didn’t know

that there was a family there for them.

So if we could get on campus,

so if we could have any notice

that we existed on campus at all,

then they would know that we were there,

that they weren’t alone, that they had family.

They could come find a family with us.

BYU can be a good fit for LGBT students

if they know where to look.

If they don’t, it’s horribly lonely and dangerous.

But if you know where to find the sort of queer spaces

where you can get the sort of connection necessary,

it can be a very good place

for coming to terms with sexuality and faith.

I am not gonna say that BYU has been

only a negative experience,

it’s just been a very negative experience

mixed with lots of positive things, like USGA.

Very positive thing in my life, I’ve made a lot of friends,

but the reality is that

I can make friends in other places.

Not to say that all of my friends are replaceable,

but like, if I went anywhere else,

I would’ve come away, I think,

with better mental health than I will from--

I think I’ll need to sincerely recover.

After BYU, I’m gonna need

to take some time and recover,

’cause it’s--I mean, it’s like a sickness

that’s eating away at me.

Now from our president.

(laughing)

I had to write down all my thoughts.

So my first time going to USGA was in 2011.

And what I found there

was people who loved me as I was.

Didn’t want me to change at all.

And so when I decided that it was right for me

to go on a mission, let me tell you,

My ward building has never seen

so many rainbows in its life.

(laughing)

I’ve never felt so loved as I have here at USGA.

’Cause I found a home.

There is the mentality of

even if you don’t want to be with us, that’s fine.

We will still be here for you when you do need us.

And really, throughout everything,

there’s just this love.

And that was the spirit of USGA.

Come as you are, leave as you desire.

Come in whatever framework you’re in,

whatever spirituality you are,

and leave on whatever path you want,

and that’s what I needed.

I think that’s what a lot of us have needed.

Now, I am done with BYU,

but I’ve seen a great change at BYU.

I’ve seen the fact that I couldn’t have a panel

in a classroom

to we just held a forum

for the entire university.

(applause)

That’s a lot.

And while that wasn’t necessarily USGA’s doing,

there’s a big change at BYU.

However, we’re not there yet.

We have come to just accept acceptance as the end goal.

We’ve learned to take a breadcrumb

and make a feast out of it.

But the fact is is that we deserve more.

We deserve so much more.

(snapping)

I’m gonna quote a prophet here:

P!nk.

(laughing and cheering)

She talks about the fact

that to want your share is not a sin.

It is not a sin

to demand nurturance for yourself.

From yourself and from other people.

Because the fact is is that here, we are a family.

Here, we are never alone.

My time as USGA president has been

the most fulfilling experience of my life.

I can walk forward.

I can look to a brighter future.

And I can be happy.

And so my plea with you is to continue that.

Let that spirit live on.

And please,

please do not settle for breadcrumbs

when you deserve so much more.

Thank you.

And I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ.

Amen.

(applause)

What I see is that there’s always going to be

gay people at BYU.

They’re always gonna be there,

they’re always gonna be coming out.

They’re not leaving ever.

You can’t just take all the gay people

out of some population,

even if it’s a homophobic church population, you know?

They’re going to be there,

and so I think the need is not going away.

Even if all of USGA leaves,

well, there’s people.

They’ll start up something else even if it takes them time.

And we’re not leaving.

Even if sometimes we’re smaller,

then I think the need is great enough

that it holds us together, you know?

I guess I’m inclined to trust those

that will come later.

I’m still kind of jaded by the administration

and the people in charge.

Like, if it was up to BYU,

there wouldn’t be a place for me at BYU.

But because some of the students there cared enough,

they made themselves a place against the administration.

They carved it out of stone and moved boulders

to make this little place

that I was able to feel safe at BYU.

♪

I’m proud of all that I did do.

But I wish I could’ve done more.

♪

(indistinct chatter)

♪

The more we speak

and the more we share our stories, our lives,

and are vulnerable like that,

I think that that is ultimately

what is going to bring about change.

One of the things I do every year

is that I teach Homer’s Iliad,

which starts with Achilles becoming infuriated

at his commanding officer, Agamemnon,

refusing to fight,

eventually losing one of the people

he cares about the most.

Going on a rampage, killing lots of people,

but what finally gets Achilles to give up his rage,

it’s not gifts, it’s not persuasion or logic,

it’s not pressure.

What finally makes him give it up

is when the enemy king comes

and sits down in front of Achilles

and supplicates him for the body of his son

whom Achilles has killed,

and he says, "I have done

what no other man has done before.

I have kissed the hand

of the man who has killed my son."

They both cry.

And it’s that moment of empathic connection,

a vulnerability where finally Achilles

is able to put off that rage and create an armistice

where the two sides can mourn for their dead.

And I think that that’s--

that lesson is extremely important

in how people end up changing.

Because it’s not going to come

through well-reasoned, logical arguments,

because I’ve seen those,

I’ve seen them sent to the Church,

and that hasn’t changed.

And I’ve seen the Church also give reasonable arguments

to gay people, and they haven’t changed.

I’ve seen shame on both sides.

I’ve seen guilt, trying to guilt the other party

into doing what they want.

That hasn’t worked.

The times that I’ve seen real change come about,

it’s because two people sat down

and told each other their stories

and developed a personal relationship.

And I think if there’s ever going to be any change

in our society, in our Mormon community,

in our Gospel, and at BYU,

it’s going to be because two people sat down

and shared their stories.

♪

(mixed chanting)

We’re here, we’re queer!

We belong at BYU!

Okay, let’s keep it moving.

(shouting)

Jesus said gay rights!

I like your sign!

We’re queer!

We belong at BYU!

(mixed chanting)

We’re here, we’re queer!

We belong at BYU!

We’re here, we’re queer!

(mixed chatter)

Love, not hate, makes BYU great.

Love, not hate, what makes BYU great.

We’re here, we’re queer!

We belong at BYU!

We’re here, we’re queer!

We belong at BYU!

We’re here, we’re queer!

We belong at BYU!

We’re here, we’re queer!

Love, not hate, makes BYU great!

Love, not hate, what makes BYU great!

(chanting continues)

♪ Don’t wash your hands of me ♪

♪ ’Cause I’ll be very clear ♪

♪

♪ Don’t pretend you don’t see me ♪

♪ ’Cause I’ll be in your ear ♪

♪