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Subtitle: Manvagtoo.
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Screaming: 'On your knees' by FBI-officers
and cries by arrested ones.
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Tommy Jackson had just turned thirteen
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when he came to 'New Horizons' last summer.
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After his mother was
arrested for manufacturing
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and distributing
child pornography.
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Louise Jackson took her son's innocence,
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the first time she sold him for sex.
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He was seven years old.
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Tommy Jackson took my innocence
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three months after I first met him.
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My name is Glenn Erskine.
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This is our story.
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Hey! Here comes Glenn.
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Should not we call him Dr. Erskine?
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- Nah.
- Everybody calls him Glenn.
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He's cool.
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You'll see,
after you've been here for a while.
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Yeah.
That car of his kicks ass.
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00:01:30,641 --> 00:01:31,541
Hey!
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Is that Tommy with him?
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Yeah...
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Hey... I thought he was
supposed to be spent
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home time with Chris Manning this weekend.
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Why is he coming in with Glenn?
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What is home time?
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Gee man...
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Hasn't anybody told you anything?
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Hey... Shut up dipshit.
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Look.
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After you've been here a few
months,
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if everything's cool,
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and you ain't been in trouble,
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shit like that.
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They let you spend one weekend
a month with your counselor.
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Tommy!
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Tommy! The bus is here.
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I left my gym bag, and
clothing-stuff at your house.
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Just a minute.
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00:02:03,351 --> 00:02:06,100
Well. Don't worry about that now.
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00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,200
We can get your things later.
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You're gonna miss the bus
if you don't come on.
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Tommy, I want you come
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to see me after school.
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We have to talk about last night.
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Ooooh boy.
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Chris!
You got a minute?
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Uuhh.
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Yeah.
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Sure.
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Come in.
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Have a seat.
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Close the door.
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What's up?
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I want you to tell me the real reason
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you had me pick up Tommy Saturday morning.
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Like I told you when I called, Glenn.
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My wife is been having problems.
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She's in her ninth month.
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Tommy can be a handful.
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A little bit too much for her.
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What about you and Tommy, Chris?
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Did anything happen Friday night that
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causes problems between the two of you?
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I don't know what you mean.
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I think you do.
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00:03:55,351 --> 00:03:58,072
Let me tell you what happened
at my house last night.
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00:04:07,300 --> 00:04:09,399
Is it okay buddy?
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00:04:09,499 --> 00:04:12,910
Peter said you were crying.
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It feels good.
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00:04:19,270 --> 00:04:22,240
When I was a boy,
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I had an uncle who could give the
absolute best scalp massages.
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No matter what was bothering me...
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Uncle Ben could make it all go away
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with those... magic fingers of his.
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00:04:40,369 --> 00:04:42,410
What's bothering you, Tommy?
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You haven't been yourself all weekend.
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00:04:47,410 --> 00:04:49,021
Chris...
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He...
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00:04:51,121 --> 00:04:52,510
What about Chris?
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00:04:52,610 --> 00:04:54,550
He doesn't like me anymore.
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00:04:55,509 --> 00:04:58,459
Tommy. Chris did not asked me
to take you for the weekend
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00:04:58,761 --> 00:05:00,891
because he doesn't like you anymore.
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00:05:01,091 --> 00:05:03,096
As you know, Mary is pregnant.
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00:05:04,096 --> 00:05:06,235
Home times are always a hassle.
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00:05:06,635 --> 00:05:08,335
He just realized it was too
much for her.
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That's all.
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00:05:09,481 --> 00:05:10,181
No.
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00:05:10,281 --> 00:05:11,282
That wasn't it.
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00:05:11,881 --> 00:05:12,882
Mary is cool.
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00:05:14,299 --> 00:05:15,940
What happened Tommy?
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00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:17,820
Nothing.
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00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:21,720
Tommy.. If something happened
between you and Chris,
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I want you to tell me about it.
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All right.
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We can talk about it later.
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It's getting late.
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Wait Glenn.
Don't go.
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00:05:39,730 --> 00:05:41,386
It is getting late Tommy.
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You need to get some sleep.
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Will you stay here until I fall asleep?
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Okay.
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Let's get you up and get you ready for bed.
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Are you not lay down too?
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00:06:05,799 --> 00:06:07,950
Okay.
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I'll lay down too.
107
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Did anything happen?
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Anything like what Chris?
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I don't... I don't know what you mean.
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I think you do.
111
00:06:30,079 --> 00:06:33,950
I think something
happened at your house last Friday.
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Something between you and Tommy.
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Mary was perfectly fine with
having Tommy for a home time.
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Wasn't she?
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Look.
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I've got a ten o'clock appointment
with a referral from DSS, Glenn.
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Sit down Chris.
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Now I've got a boy here
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whose emotional state is
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almost back to where it was
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00:07:01,590 --> 00:07:04,276
when he came to 'New
Horizons' three months ago.
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I wanne know why.
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00:07:08,059 --> 00:07:08,359
Glenn...
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I...
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00:07:09,059 --> 00:07:11,501
You've worked wonders with him Chris.
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He took to you right from the beginning.
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00:07:13,611 --> 00:07:15,521
And that's why I assigned his case to you.
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It's obvious to everyone around here
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how close the two of you have become.
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I want to know what has happened.
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What changed all that?
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What do you mean?
133
00:07:26,396 --> 00:07:29,375
I mean why does Tommy think
you don't like him anymore?
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It's Friday night.
135
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I can't believe it all happened.
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Sit down Chris.
137
00:07:42,350 --> 00:07:44,650
No...
I'd rather stand.
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00:07:47,650 --> 00:07:49,030
It was stupid, just stupid.
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00:07:49,150 --> 00:07:51,230
I know better than that.
140
00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,481
But at the time it was all
happening... I thought...
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00:07:56,241 --> 00:07:58,226
I thought it was good for Tommy.
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He...
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00:08:00,926 --> 00:08:01,927
He what?
144
00:08:04,550 --> 00:08:05,851
He enjoyed it.
145
00:08:07,050 --> 00:08:08,351
So did I.
146
00:08:11,530 --> 00:08:12,430
All right.
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00:08:12,530 --> 00:08:15,221
I need to know how
serious the incident was.
148
00:08:19,621 --> 00:08:22,140
Was there any petting or kissing?
149
00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,570
Yes.
150
00:08:24,670 --> 00:08:27,671
Fondling?
151
00:08:31,980 --> 00:08:35,599
Did you manually stimulate Tommy?
152
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Masturbation.
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00:08:37,699 --> 00:08:39,829
In a way I guess, I did.
154
00:08:39,929 --> 00:08:42,109
Did Tommy manually stimulate you?
155
00:08:46,029 --> 00:08:47,209
Yes.
156
00:08:47,609 --> 00:08:48,620
Oral copulation?
157
00:08:50,309 --> 00:08:51,220
Oh God!
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00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:52,721
This is gonna kill Mary.
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00:08:53,221 --> 00:08:54,789
She'll divorce me.
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00:08:55,689 --> 00:08:57,949
I'll never get another counseling position.
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I have ruined my life, have not I?
162
00:09:02,410 --> 00:09:03,410
Your life?
163
00:09:03,510 --> 00:09:05,110
What about Tommy, Chris?
164
00:09:05,210 --> 00:09:06,691
Did you ever stop to think about that?
165
00:09:06,791 --> 00:09:09,056
Did you threaten or force him at any point?
166
00:09:09,156 --> 00:09:10,606
No, no.
167
00:09:11,106 --> 00:09:12,841
It wasn't like that.
168
00:09:13,441 --> 00:09:14,541
Aahh. We've got petting,
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kissing,
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00:09:15,741 --> 00:09:16,741
fondling,
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00:09:16,841 --> 00:09:18,221
and mutual masturbation.
172
00:09:19,221 --> 00:09:21,126
What about oral sex Chris?
173
00:09:21,226 --> 00:09:22,771
You didn't answer my question.
174
00:09:25,170 --> 00:09:26,356
Chris.
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00:09:26,570 --> 00:09:28,911
Don't make this any
tougher than it already is.
176
00:09:29,578 --> 00:09:30,478
Chris!!!!
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00:09:30,578 --> 00:09:31,579
No.
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00:09:34,578 --> 00:09:36,328
Tommy did me.
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00:09:36,578 --> 00:09:38,528
All right.
Tell me how it happened.
180
00:09:38,628 --> 00:09:40,520
I don't know.
181
00:09:41,328 --> 00:09:46,020
About eleven o'clock.
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I went in to check on Tommy,
before I went to bed.
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00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,740
He had just come out of the shower.
184
00:09:52,540 --> 00:09:54,078
He started horsing around.
185
00:09:54,278 --> 00:09:56,901
You know how I do with all the boys.
They like that.
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00:09:57,501 --> 00:09:58,985
I took the towel,
187
00:09:59,385 --> 00:10:01,700
and I started popping him with it,
188
00:10:02,700 --> 00:10:04,970
and we were wrestling around,
and wounded up on the floor,
189
00:10:05,070 --> 00:10:06,400
and he was naked,
190
00:10:07,070 --> 00:10:08,400
and I was in my pyjamas,
191
00:10:10,700 --> 00:10:13,129
and he was on top of me.
192
00:10:13,229 --> 00:10:15,680
He leaned up.
193
00:10:15,799 --> 00:10:18,729
It sorts of just looked at each other.
194
00:10:20,129 --> 00:10:22,018
Then he said...
195
00:10:23,518 --> 00:10:25,308
He said what?
196
00:10:26,518 --> 00:10:29,208
He said: 'I really like you, Chris.'
197
00:10:31,718 --> 00:10:34,608
I told him I really liked him too.
198
00:10:35,508 --> 00:10:39,209
Then... he hugged me.
199
00:10:42,008 --> 00:10:44,599
And things just progressed from there?
200
00:10:45,599 --> 00:10:46,779
Yes.
201
00:10:47,899 --> 00:10:50,999
So... Tommy initiated sexual contact?
202
00:10:51,099 --> 00:10:52,279
Yes.
203
00:10:52,379 --> 00:10:53,979
Why didn't you stop him?
204
00:10:54,079 --> 00:10:55,079
Oh...
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00:10:55,179 --> 00:10:56,210
I don't know Glenn.
206
00:10:56,310 --> 00:10:57,311
It was so...
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00:10:57,809 --> 00:10:59,209
so affectionate.
208
00:10:59,309 --> 00:11:03,490
Yeah... but given Tommy's background, you
should have expected something like this.
209
00:11:04,250 --> 00:11:05,251
No!
210
00:11:05,450 --> 00:11:07,150
No. That's not what happened.
211
00:11:07,250 --> 00:11:08,410
It wasn't like that.
212
00:11:08,910 --> 00:11:09,911
I know.
213
00:11:10,410 --> 00:11:13,010
For the first time in his life,
214
00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:15,287
Tommy felt close and
intimately with someone
215
00:11:15,410 --> 00:11:16,787
who was not interested in using him.
216
00:11:16,887 --> 00:11:19,431
But you did not have to let it go that far.
217
00:11:20,659 --> 00:11:22,339
All right. What about resolution?
218
00:11:22,659 --> 00:11:24,231
Resolution?
219
00:11:25,339 --> 00:11:27,694
How did this encounter with Tommy end?
220
00:11:28,194 --> 00:11:29,195
I...
221
00:11:29,994 --> 00:11:32,200
I don't understand what you mean.
222
00:11:32,300 --> 00:11:32,600
Chris..
223
00:11:32,700 --> 00:11:34,025
Nothing of what you've told me so far
224
00:11:34,125 --> 00:11:36,610
should have affected
Tommy in a negative way,
225
00:11:36,710 --> 00:11:39,700
if there had been an
appropriate resolution.
226
00:11:40,060 --> 00:11:42,666
Why does Tommy think you
don't like him anymore?
227
00:11:42,766 --> 00:11:44,760
How did he feel about what had happened
228
00:11:44,860 --> 00:11:48,030
after it after it was over?
229
00:11:48,330 --> 00:11:49,230
Chris...
230
00:11:49,330 --> 00:11:51,049
How did he feel
about what had happened?
231
00:11:51,149 --> 00:11:52,450
I don't know.
232
00:11:52,550 --> 00:11:54,749
What do you mean, you don't know!?
233
00:11:55,350 --> 00:11:56,450
You didn't talk to him
234
00:11:56,550 --> 00:11:58,349
about what the two of you had done?
235
00:11:59,149 --> 00:12:01,129
Oh, my God!
236
00:12:02,629 --> 00:12:04,925
Don't tell me you just left him there.
237
00:12:05,025 --> 00:12:07,320
You didn't say anything to him?
238
00:12:09,020 --> 00:12:12,080
I told him not to tell anybody.
239
00:12:12,180 --> 00:12:13,740
And what did Tommy say to that?
240
00:12:17,550 --> 00:12:18,910
He said he was sorry.
241
00:12:19,150 --> 00:12:20,810
He beg me not to leave.
242
00:12:20,910 --> 00:12:23,849
He kept on saying that he was
sorry, and I..
243
00:12:25,349 --> 00:12:27,250
I just walked out.
244
00:12:34,099 --> 00:12:35,826
Here's the deal.
245
00:12:35,926 --> 00:12:37,161
You are suspended pending the outcome
246
00:12:37,261 --> 00:12:39,411
of an investigation in this matter.
247
00:12:39,511 --> 00:12:40,651
Investigation!
248
00:12:40,911 --> 00:12:41,751
What investigation?
249
00:12:41,851 --> 00:12:42,751
You just agreed with me
250
00:12:42,851 --> 00:12:44,361
that this wasn't abuse.
251
00:12:44,461 --> 00:12:46,802
The minute you told Tommy
not to tell anybody.
252
00:12:46,930 --> 00:12:47,830
And walked out on him.
253
00:12:47,930 --> 00:12:49,271
It became abuse.
254
00:12:50,071 --> 00:12:53,160
No, no, no.
That's not what...
255
00:12:53,260 --> 00:12:54,500
Tommy gets you off.
256
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:55,980
You tell him not to tell anybody.
257
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:56,980
Then you get up,
258
00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:58,610
and just leave him crying on the floor.
259
00:12:58,710 --> 00:13:00,395
How do you think he felt Chris?
260
00:13:01,195 --> 00:13:02,095
Alone.
261
00:13:02,195 --> 00:13:03,095
Abandoned.
262
00:13:03,195 --> 00:13:03,495
Cheap.
263
00:13:03,595 --> 00:13:04,095
Dirty,
264
00:13:04,195 --> 00:13:04,966
and ashamed.
265
00:13:05,066 --> 00:13:06,351
That's how he felt.
266
00:13:10,189 --> 00:13:11,490
I'm sorry.
267
00:13:11,789 --> 00:13:13,390
I don't wanne hear it.
268
00:13:13,490 --> 00:13:16,061
Do you know what you've done?
269
00:13:16,161 --> 00:13:18,791
You've completely undone all the work
270
00:13:18,991 --> 00:13:21,051
we put into Tommy over
the last three months.
271
00:13:21,151 --> 00:13:21,851
Chris.
272
00:13:21,951 --> 00:13:23,221
That boy trusted you.
273
00:13:23,421 --> 00:13:24,421
He loved you.
274
00:13:24,521 --> 00:13:25,856
And then you just go.
275
00:13:25,956 --> 00:13:26,856
I love him too Glenn.
276
00:13:26,956 --> 00:13:28,455
I did not mean to hurt Tommy.
277
00:13:31,655 --> 00:13:34,295
I can still work this out with him.
We don't have to.
278
00:13:36,595 --> 00:13:38,245
Can't you just make an exception one time?
279
00:13:38,345 --> 00:13:39,920
I swear to God, Glen.
280
00:13:40,020 --> 00:13:42,010
I'll never let it happen again.
281
00:13:44,020 --> 00:13:45,021
I like you Chris.
282
00:13:46,820 --> 00:13:48,690
I really do.
283
00:13:49,490 --> 00:13:52,236
When I hired you out of
graduate school five years ago.
284
00:13:52,636 --> 00:13:54,845
I thought you'd be one
of our best counselors.
285
00:13:54,945 --> 00:13:56,415
And you are.
286
00:13:56,615 --> 00:13:59,461
You've worked wonders
with some of the boys.
287
00:13:59,561 --> 00:14:02,221
But I just can't sweep this under the rug.
288
00:14:02,321 --> 00:14:05,071
I'm not gonna jeopardize
this entire operation for you.
289
00:14:05,171 --> 00:14:08,071
And what happens if Tommy decides to
tell somebody despite your threat?
290
00:14:08,171 --> 00:14:10,261
I didn't threaten him.
291
00:14:10,361 --> 00:14:11,261
The threat was implied.
292
00:14:11,361 --> 00:14:12,841
And you know it.
293
00:14:12,941 --> 00:14:14,141
If Tommy comes to me.
294
00:14:14,241 --> 00:14:15,451
I'll have to report it.
295
00:14:15,551 --> 00:14:16,451
What am I gonna say,
296
00:14:16,551 --> 00:14:18,461
when it comes out you already told me?
297
00:14:18,561 --> 00:14:21,409
Now way how would I explain that?
298
00:14:24,609 --> 00:14:26,490
This is my life we're talking
about...
299
00:14:26,609 --> 00:14:27,625
Not just my job.
300
00:14:29,225 --> 00:14:31,526
Mary will never understand!!!
301
00:14:31,726 --> 00:14:33,426
I'll tell you what.
302
00:14:33,726 --> 00:14:36,126
I won't date this report until tomorrow.
303
00:14:36,226 --> 00:14:39,286
I won't tell anybody about it till then.
304
00:14:39,886 --> 00:14:43,826
That will give you 24 hours
to explain things to Mary.
305
00:14:44,426 --> 00:14:45,427
Here.
306
00:14:46,026 --> 00:14:47,827
Sign this.
307
00:15:09,456 --> 00:15:11,156
Chris!
308
00:15:11,256 --> 00:15:12,257
Save it Glenn.
309
00:15:13,420 --> 00:15:14,920
You excuse me.
310
00:15:15,020 --> 00:15:15,920
I gotta go tell my wife
311
00:15:16,020 --> 00:15:17,121
that her husband is a child molester.
312
00:15:17,221 --> 00:15:18,771
You're not in a child molester.
313
00:15:20,421 --> 00:15:21,671
Oooh...
Really...?
314
00:15:39,380 --> 00:15:41,181
Hi Glenn.
315
00:15:44,679 --> 00:15:47,189
Ooh, okay. Just a minute.
I'll have him right back.
316
00:15:47,859 --> 00:15:49,340
That will be fine.
317
00:16:13,429 --> 00:16:15,440
Tommy, I need to talk to you.
318
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,950
I've got a Hall Pass.
We can't talk here.
319
00:16:21,050 --> 00:16:23,736
We need to find a room somewhere.
320
00:16:24,336 --> 00:16:26,651
Let's go in here.
I gotta take a piss.
321
00:16:37,790 --> 00:16:40,629
I wanne talk you about Chris.
322
00:16:40,729 --> 00:16:43,311
He told me what happened Friday night.
323
00:16:43,411 --> 00:16:45,091
Nothing happened.
324
00:16:45,191 --> 00:16:47,586
Yes.
Something did happen.
325
00:16:48,486 --> 00:16:51,160
Chris admitted it.
You need to know that.
326
00:16:56,319 --> 00:16:59,099
Did Chris say what I did wrong?
327
00:16:59,199 --> 00:17:02,249
You did nothing wrong son.
I didn't do it right.
328
00:17:02,349 --> 00:17:04,455
Chris was mad at me.
329
00:17:04,655 --> 00:17:07,026
He probably thinks I'm a fag or something.
330
00:17:07,226 --> 00:17:10,085
Tommy. You did nothing wrong
and Chris is not mad at you.
331
00:17:10,585 --> 00:17:12,795
He just realized that
he did something wrong,
332
00:17:12,895 --> 00:17:14,840
and he doesn't know how to handle it.
333
00:17:15,166 --> 00:17:16,366
You'll understand?
334
00:17:16,466 --> 00:17:18,265
Is Chris in trouble?
335
00:17:18,665 --> 00:17:21,845
In a way:'Yes'.
I'll have to file a report with the DSS.
336
00:17:22,645 --> 00:17:25,889
Your caseworker will have
a lot of questions for you.
337
00:17:27,055 --> 00:17:29,356
It would be best for you and Chris
338
00:17:29,456 --> 00:17:31,717
if you answered all her
questions truthfully,
339
00:17:32,621 --> 00:17:34,491
and told her exactly what happened.
340
00:17:34,691 --> 00:17:37,652
No! I won't do it.
Not if it means Chris will be in trouble.
341
00:17:38,730 --> 00:17:41,193
He said not to tell nobody.
He didn't tell you nothing.
342
00:17:41,293 --> 00:17:44,634
You're just trying to make me say
something to get him in trouble.
343
00:17:45,055 --> 00:17:47,761
Tommy look.
Chris already admitted to me what happened.
344
00:17:47,861 --> 00:17:51,551
By denying it, you're not helping.
345
00:17:51,651 --> 00:17:55,181
If Chris tell me to tell, I will.
346
00:17:55,281 --> 00:17:57,971
Unfortunately you won't be seeing Chris
347
00:17:58,071 --> 00:18:00,985
until after the investigation.
Why not
348
00:18:01,085 --> 00:18:03,765
Tommy.
Chris is no longer with 'New Horizons'.
349
00:18:03,865 --> 00:18:06,795
He's been put on indefinite suspension,
350
00:18:06,895 --> 00:18:09,415
till this matter is resolved.
351
00:18:09,515 --> 00:18:11,546
No! You can't take Chris away.
352
00:18:12,346 --> 00:18:15,540
He is my friend.
Glenn! Please! Don't fire him!
353
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,779
If I tell you what happened,
can Chris then...
354
00:18:21,879 --> 00:18:24,660
It's too late for that, Tommy.
355
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,211
Can I keep the book.
Alright. See you.
356
00:20:05,490 --> 00:20:07,821
Are you're doing okay buddy?
357
00:20:09,220 --> 00:20:12,346
Peters got a basketball game
at St.Marks in a few hours.
358
00:20:12,446 --> 00:20:15,211
Why don't you come with us?
359
00:20:15,311 --> 00:20:17,011
It will do you good.
360
00:20:17,311 --> 00:20:19,360
I don't want to go.
Okay then.
361
00:20:24,250 --> 00:20:27,451
Tell me. I'm sorry about what
happened at school today.
362
00:20:27,551 --> 00:20:30,721
I handled that situation badly.
363
00:20:30,821 --> 00:20:35,216
I know that Chris has hurt you,
364
00:20:35,316 --> 00:20:37,891
and I just want you to
get through this, okay?
365
00:20:46,059 --> 00:20:49,060
Glenn!
366
00:20:52,329 --> 00:20:55,479
I'll go with you.
Did you sign out and say you're with me?
367
00:20:55,579 --> 00:20:59,400
Yeah...
Hop in.
368
00:21:10,740 --> 00:21:13,690
It is for the star of the basketball game.
369
00:21:16,349 --> 00:21:18,870
Just hit the game-winning shot.
370
00:21:18,970 --> 00:21:20,336
Can I have a beer?
371
00:21:20,436 --> 00:21:23,495
I think not. Soda will be just fine
372
00:21:24,595 --> 00:21:26,495
I gotta go to pee. Come on then. I take
you.
373
00:21:26,595 --> 00:21:28,315
I have to go to the bathroom too.
374
00:21:29,815 --> 00:21:31,845
Thank Peter.
375
00:21:36,145 --> 00:21:39,589
Hello.
Oh hi Mary, what's up?
376
00:21:41,889 --> 00:21:44,400
What kind of accident?
377
00:21:46,050 --> 00:21:49,729
Of course. What hospital he is in?
I'm on my way.
378
00:21:49,829 --> 00:21:52,488
What was that all about.
379
00:21:52,588 --> 00:21:54,965
Chris Mannings has been in an accident.
That was his wife.
380
00:21:55,065 --> 00:21:57,651
She's at the hospital.
She wants me to come right away.
381
00:21:57,751 --> 00:21:59,016
Ooh Glenn.
382
00:21:59,116 --> 00:22:00,861
Tell the boys I'm sorry. I have to go.
383
00:22:00,961 --> 00:22:02,481
You take Tommy back to 'New Horizons'?
384
00:22:02,581 --> 00:22:03,720
I'm going with you.
385
00:22:03,820 --> 00:22:05,905
I think it would be better if you didn't.
386
00:22:06,005 --> 00:22:08,389
Glenn... I'm going with you.
All right. Come on.
387
00:22:10,849 --> 00:22:14,739
Okay. I will pretty late.
388
00:22:14,839 --> 00:22:18,281
I wait up. I hope Chris is all right.
389
00:22:36,030 --> 00:22:44,031
Chris. It's Glenn. I'm here.
Mary called me.
390
00:22:45,180 --> 00:22:46,680
Ssshh, don't talk.
391
00:22:46,780 --> 00:22:48,201
Save your strength.
392
00:22:51,930 --> 00:22:54,369
I couldn't tell her, Glenn.
393
00:22:54,530 --> 00:22:57,069
I couldn't do that to Mary.
394
00:22:58,869 --> 00:23:01,810
Promise me. Promise me,
395
00:23:02,269 --> 00:23:04,810
you won't let her find out. Promise.
396
00:23:04,910 --> 00:23:06,879
I promise you, there'll be no report.
397
00:23:06,979 --> 00:23:08,379
Swear it.
398
00:23:08,479 --> 00:23:10,360
I swear it Chris.
399
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:18,209
I'm sorry Glenn.
400
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,609
Tell Tommy I am sorry.
401
00:23:24,109 --> 00:23:25,980
I never meant to hurt him.
402
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:31,780
Oooh God.
403
00:23:35,590 --> 00:23:37,640
I love him Glenn.
404
00:23:38,790 --> 00:23:40,640
Tommy is here. Tommy is here, Chris.
405
00:23:45,179 --> 00:23:46,228
Tommy.
406
00:23:46,579 --> 00:23:49,279
I never meant to hurt you.
407
00:23:49,379 --> 00:23:53,328
You believe me, don't you?
408
00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:03,501
Chris.
409
00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:06,130
Chris.
410
00:24:06,230 --> 00:24:10,420
Chris! Tommy.
Chris! Chris!
411
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:13,019
We'll have to go.
Chris!
412
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:17,620
Mr. Manning, Mr. Manning.
413
00:24:39,129 --> 00:24:42,250
Tommy, Tommy.
414
00:24:58,430 --> 00:25:01,660
What was that all about?
415
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,110
I took Tommy to Peter's basketball game.
416
00:25:05,210 --> 00:25:06,510
Then we had to go to the hospital.
417
00:25:06,610 --> 00:25:08,469
I got some bad news, Karen.
418
00:25:08,569 --> 00:25:11,129
Chris Manning has been in an accident.
419
00:25:13,311 --> 00:25:14,961
He died about an hour ago.
420
00:25:17,861 --> 00:25:20,529
I, I can't believe it.
I know.
421
00:25:22,129 --> 00:25:24,700
I better go check on Tommy.
422
00:25:36,159 --> 00:25:38,260
Tommy.
423
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,810
Glenn?
424
00:25:55,339 --> 00:25:58,330
Who will be my counselor now?
I don't know.
425
00:25:58,430 --> 00:26:01,620
Can you do it?
No, I can't.
426
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,159
I'm the director here.
I can't have a favorite.
427
00:26:04,959 --> 00:26:08,640
Can I ask you a question?
Sure.
428
00:26:08,740 --> 00:26:12,296
Did you really mean what you said to Chris?
429
00:26:12,396 --> 00:26:15,371
That you wouldn't tell anybody?
Yes I did.
430
00:26:15,471 --> 00:26:18,871
There's been too much grief, Tommy.
431
00:26:19,071 --> 00:26:21,739
I can't add his wife to this mess.
432
00:26:22,339 --> 00:26:26,061
This will have to be our secret now.
Do you understand?
433
00:26:26,861 --> 00:26:30,100
Yeah.
Oh wait. Don't go.
434
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,336
Who whissled me last night?
435
00:26:33,936 --> 00:26:37,731
It's getting late Tommy.
Please! All right
436
00:26:37,831 --> 00:26:39,521
Let's get you ready for bed
437
00:26:53,069 --> 00:26:56,211
Feels good.
438
00:27:46,629 --> 00:27:48,008
Morning Kay.
439
00:27:48,108 --> 00:27:50,890
Good morning Dr. Erskine.
440
00:27:52,790 --> 00:27:55,988
What's that unmarked
police car doing out there?
441
00:27:56,088 --> 00:27:59,620
I am not sure.
Some detective guy came in with Lucille.
442
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,620
Lucille from DSS?
Yes sir.
443
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,991
I am sorry what happened to Chris.
444
00:28:05,691 --> 00:28:06,801
That was awful.
445
00:28:07,401 --> 00:28:10,719
Karen told you? Yeah.
She told me this morning when I came in.
446
00:28:11,419 --> 00:28:13,791
He will be hard to replace.
447
00:28:13,891 --> 00:28:15,985
Boys really love him.
448
00:28:16,385 --> 00:28:18,680
Can you get one of this for me?
Yeah... sure.
449
00:28:21,428 --> 00:28:23,085
All right.
Look guys.
450
00:28:23,785 --> 00:28:26,729
What we've got to do is sit down.
And clearly...
451
00:28:28,229 --> 00:28:32,080
What's going on?
John? I can expect your call later?
452
00:28:33,180 --> 00:28:36,281
Yes Lucille.
I'm sure we can get this worked out.
453
00:28:37,081 --> 00:28:39,202
Morning, Lucille.
454
00:28:43,550 --> 00:28:46,420
What was that all about?
455
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,921
Close the door and have a seat Glenn.
456
00:28:52,180 --> 00:28:54,211
You might tell me what's going on,
457
00:28:54,511 --> 00:28:56,711
and why you are in my office?
458
00:28:57,211 --> 00:28:59,361
Do you think the rules around
here apply to you Glenn?
459
00:28:59,461 --> 00:29:00,580
What?
460
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,690
Any staff member who signs a
resident out from this facility
461
00:29:04,190 --> 00:29:06,670
is supposed to have him back by 8 o'clock.
462
00:29:07,270 --> 00:29:09,610
John! I wrote the rules, remember?
463
00:29:09,710 --> 00:29:11,380
Of course they apply to me.
464
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,871
Yet you signed Tommy Jackson
in last night at 11:05.
465
00:29:15,271 --> 00:29:17,511
I took Tommy to see
Peter's basketball game.
466
00:29:17,611 --> 00:29:19,911
Then I got the call about Chris.
467
00:29:20,011 --> 00:29:22,056
Did you hear about the accident?
468
00:29:22,156 --> 00:29:24,861
Yes.
And if you knew about it last night,
469
00:29:24,961 --> 00:29:27,890
why did I have to find out this
morning from Karen Stillman?
470
00:29:27,990 --> 00:29:30,160
Look John.
471
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,390
I spent the entire evening
with Tommy at the hospital.
472
00:29:34,990 --> 00:29:37,090
We were there when Chris died.
473
00:29:38,290 --> 00:29:40,410
That's why I was so late getting him back.
474
00:29:40,810 --> 00:29:43,689
You signed him in at 11:05.
475
00:29:43,789 --> 00:29:46,743
Yet yourself didn't sign out until 11:30.
So...
476
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,496
Glenn. Did Tommy Jackson spend Saturday
and Sunday night in your home?
477
00:29:53,596 --> 00:29:53,721
He was supposed to spend
home time with Chris,
478
00:29:53,821 --> 00:29:55,196
Yes.
479
00:29:57,810 --> 00:30:00,201
but Chris called and said
it was too much for Mary,
480
00:30:00,301 --> 00:30:02,451
so I took him for the rest of the weekend.
481
00:30:02,551 --> 00:30:05,720
What were you and Chris
arguing about yesterday?
482
00:30:06,020 --> 00:30:08,051
I came by here
483
00:30:08,151 --> 00:30:10,380
and heard you in quite a heated discussion.
484
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,031
It was a personal matter.
485
00:30:12,131 --> 00:30:13,331
Personal matter?
486
00:30:13,431 --> 00:30:14,300
Yes.
487
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,565
Did your argument have anything
to do with this incident report?
488
00:30:20,965 --> 00:30:23,729
This is a mistake Chance,
a misunderstanding.
489
00:30:23,829 --> 00:30:25,241
I wasn't gonna file it.
490
00:30:25,341 --> 00:30:27,526
You weren't going to file it...
You!!!!!
491
00:30:27,626 --> 00:30:28,841
John, what's going on?
492
00:30:29,126 --> 00:30:30,041
Oh...
493
00:30:30,141 --> 00:30:32,296
As if you did not know.
494
00:30:32,691 --> 00:30:35,996
Tommy Jackson has accused you
of sexually molesting him.
495
00:30:40,419 --> 00:30:42,659
Tommy told Chris.
496
00:30:42,959 --> 00:30:44,670
And he confronted you about it.
497
00:30:44,770 --> 00:30:47,391
And that's why the two of
you were arguing yesterday.
498
00:30:47,895 --> 00:30:50,630
And then you go and do it again.
Right here last night.
499
00:30:50,730 --> 00:30:52,311
Last night!? That's ridiculous!
500
00:30:53,011 --> 00:30:54,576
They want to interview you
about this down at DSS.
501
00:30:54,676 --> 00:30:57,230
Save your protests for them.
Say who?
502
00:30:57,330 --> 00:31:00,066
Lucille and that detective
that was with her.
503
00:31:00,166 --> 00:31:02,496
His name is Carter.
504
00:31:02,596 --> 00:31:06,261
John... If I tell you something in confidence,
it will clear this whole thing up.
505
00:31:06,361 --> 00:31:08,371
And what will your explanation be Glenn?
506
00:31:09,371 --> 00:31:13,332
Some homosexual version of the same story
that woman up in Washington gave,
507
00:31:13,432 --> 00:31:15,561
when she was caught,
508
00:31:15,661 --> 00:31:17,215
having an affair with
her 12-year old student?
509
00:31:17,315 --> 00:31:21,906
Jesus Christ Glenn.
First a damn article of yours last year.
510
00:31:22,006 --> 00:31:23,271
Now this.
511
00:31:23,371 --> 00:31:25,331
What's that got to do with anything?
512
00:31:25,431 --> 00:31:26,831
You're kidding, right?
513
00:31:27,131 --> 00:31:29,351
You published an article
in the APA journal.
514
00:31:29,551 --> 00:31:32,541
Saying that a sexual relationship
between a man and boy
515
00:31:33,341 --> 00:31:35,390
can't de facto be declared abusive.
516
00:31:35,490 --> 00:31:38,241
And you think that's not going to have
any impact on this place?
517
00:31:38,341 --> 00:31:41,642
Do you realize that two of our biggest
sponsors almost dropped us?
518
00:31:42,521 --> 00:31:44,911
I had to kiss some major ass
519
00:31:45,011 --> 00:31:47,460
to keep the Ellis foundation.
520
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,280
I haven't kept my views on this
subject a secret, John.
521
00:31:50,380 --> 00:31:52,681
Hell, I wrote my Ph.D. dissertation on it.
522
00:31:52,781 --> 00:31:55,350
I wrote a book about it five years ago.
523
00:31:55,450 --> 00:31:57,841
And that wasn't the only article I wrote.
524
00:31:57,941 --> 00:31:59,701
In fact, let me remind you,
525
00:31:59,801 --> 00:32:03,211
was one of those articles that caused
you to contact me ten years ago,
526
00:32:03,311 --> 00:32:04,761
and start the counseling centers,
527
00:32:04,861 --> 00:32:06,150
here at 'New Horizons'.
528
00:32:06,250 --> 00:32:08,680
Counseling centers with
a worldwide reputation.
529
00:32:08,780 --> 00:32:10,251
That's being copied everywhere.
530
00:32:10,351 --> 00:32:13,040
I'm well aware of your
qualifications, Glenn.
531
00:32:13,140 --> 00:32:15,031
You're not only a gifted therapist,
532
00:32:15,231 --> 00:32:17,006
but a first-rate scholar.
533
00:32:17,106 --> 00:32:20,016
That combination is rare,
534
00:32:20,116 --> 00:32:22,611
and has proven an asset for 'New Horizons'.
535
00:32:22,711 --> 00:32:26,106
I know that you're the reason
we've got the reputation we do.
536
00:32:26,806 --> 00:32:29,656
But we've got to face the facts,
537
00:32:29,756 --> 00:32:32,950
that some of your views are controversial.
538
00:32:33,150 --> 00:32:34,860
And even amongst your colleagues.
539
00:32:35,060 --> 00:32:36,740
And up until now I always assumed
540
00:32:37,140 --> 00:32:39,680
that your interest in this
subject, as you called it,
541
00:32:39,780 --> 00:32:40,991
was academic.
542
00:32:41,091 --> 00:32:43,040
That is bullshit John and you know it.
543
00:32:43,140 --> 00:32:44,671
You know me for ten years.
544
00:32:44,771 --> 00:32:47,900
I pour my heart and soul into every boy
that comes through that door.
545
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,850
How you would even think that I could...
546
00:32:49,950 --> 00:32:53,471
Whatever happened between you and Tommy,
I'm sure, you don't see it as any form...
547
00:32:53,571 --> 00:32:56,371
God damn it, John!
Nothing happened between me and Tommy.
548
00:32:56,471 --> 00:32:57,700
Have you lost your mind?
549
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,271
Look.
Get out of my office!
550
00:33:06,779 --> 00:33:09,939
They want you at DSS at 11 o'clock.
551
00:33:10,139 --> 00:33:13,701
I suggest you talk to a very
good lawyer in the meantime.
552
00:33:13,801 --> 00:33:16,466
Find out what your options are.
553
00:33:30,979 --> 00:33:32,588
Thanks for coming Jim.
554
00:33:32,979 --> 00:33:34,588
Okay Glenn.
What's the matter?
555
00:33:36,088 --> 00:33:40,069
I've been accused of molesting
one of the boys at 'New Horizons'.
556
00:33:42,569 --> 00:33:44,490
Taken you haven't been formally charged?
557
00:33:44,590 --> 00:33:45,775
What do you mean?
558
00:33:46,475 --> 00:33:49,949
The fact that we're having this
conversation here, rather than at the jail,
559
00:33:50,049 --> 00:33:51,899
would mean that you haven't
been arrested for anything.
560
00:33:51,999 --> 00:33:53,799
No, not yet anyway.
561
00:33:54,299 --> 00:33:56,110
I'm supposed to be a DSS right now.
562
00:33:56,510 --> 00:33:58,511
Meeting with Lucille Drake and one of
563
00:33:58,611 --> 00:34:00,296
the detectives from the
Sheriff's Department.
564
00:34:00,396 --> 00:34:03,009
Well... we better get over there then.
565
00:34:03,109 --> 00:34:04,831
So you will go there with me?
566
00:34:05,331 --> 00:34:07,212
Of course Glenn. I'll drive.
567
00:34:07,331 --> 00:34:09,532
You can fill me in on
the details on the way.
568
00:34:17,999 --> 00:34:21,670
So you're were actually in
the boys room last night?
569
00:34:22,770 --> 00:34:23,370
Yes.
570
00:34:23,470 --> 00:34:25,110
Did anyone see you?
571
00:34:25,310 --> 00:34:27,235
Well... I had to sign in and out, Jim.
572
00:34:27,335 --> 00:34:29,129
I can't very well deny I was there.
573
00:34:29,629 --> 00:34:31,130
No... that's not what I meant.
574
00:34:31,379 --> 00:34:33,174
Did anyone see you go in the room?
575
00:34:33,474 --> 00:34:35,905
Tommy's got a roommate, Curtis Sloane.
576
00:34:36,705 --> 00:34:38,330
He was asleep when we went in there.
577
00:34:38,430 --> 00:34:40,019
I don't think he saw anything.
578
00:34:40,219 --> 00:34:42,679
So... From what you can
gather from John Brantley.
579
00:34:43,181 --> 00:34:45,370
This boy is accusing you of
molesting him in his own bed.
580
00:34:45,470 --> 00:34:47,579
Last night after you brought
him back to the home?
581
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:48,680
Is that right?
582
00:34:48,879 --> 00:34:50,300
That's about the size of it.
583
00:34:50,470 --> 00:34:52,645
Why would he do that?
584
00:34:52,745 --> 00:34:54,220
I don't know.
585
00:34:56,738 --> 00:34:57,838
Glenn...
586
00:34:57,938 --> 00:35:00,548
I can't help you if you
don't tell me everything.
587
00:35:00,648 --> 00:35:03,178
Now you told John this was a mistake,
588
00:35:03,278 --> 00:35:05,229
and then started to
tell him something else.
589
00:35:05,329 --> 00:35:06,515
What was it?
590
00:35:07,115 --> 00:35:08,981
I can't tell you that right now Jim.
591
00:35:09,081 --> 00:35:11,271
Not until I know how far this is gonna go.
592
00:35:13,971 --> 00:35:15,276
I see.
593
00:35:15,976 --> 00:35:19,879
Whatever it was, you almost told John.
594
00:35:19,979 --> 00:35:21,740
As a exculpatory isn't it?
595
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:23,140
What?
596
00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:24,511
Whatever it is would clear you of this?
597
00:35:24,611 --> 00:35:26,626
I think so, yes.
598
00:35:26,826 --> 00:35:29,020
Then why in the world don't you?
599
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,619
Alright... We'll put that on
hold for the time being.
600
00:35:35,119 --> 00:35:36,988
Glenn...
Let me ask you something.
601
00:35:37,088 --> 00:35:39,470
And don't take this personally,
but I have to ask.
602
00:35:39,570 --> 00:35:41,780
Were you and this kid involved at all?
603
00:35:41,980 --> 00:35:43,610
I mean, in a sexual relationship?
604
00:35:43,710 --> 00:35:44,219
No.
605
00:35:44,319 --> 00:35:46,170
So there's nothing going on that
606
00:35:46,270 --> 00:35:47,929
this kid could turn around on you know?
607
00:35:48,029 --> 00:35:50,395
And don't refer to him like that.
608
00:35:50,495 --> 00:35:51,496
Like what?
609
00:35:51,895 --> 00:35:53,925
This kid.
His name is Tommy.
610
00:35:54,025 --> 00:35:57,019
You care for him, don't you?
611
00:35:57,119 --> 00:36:00,240
I care for all the boys
at 'New Horizons', Jim.
612
00:36:00,340 --> 00:36:02,380
Tommy had a tough life.
613
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,741
You know how he came to 'New Horizons'?
614
00:36:04,841 --> 00:36:06,540
His mother used to sell him for sex.
615
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,475
Then she make videos of it and sell those.
616
00:36:09,575 --> 00:36:11,769
She made a mistake when she started dealing
617
00:36:11,869 --> 00:36:13,480
with an undercover FBI agent
on the Internet.
618
00:36:13,580 --> 00:36:14,842
She got busted.
619
00:36:14,980 --> 00:36:16,742
Tommy became a ward of the state.
620
00:36:16,842 --> 00:36:19,586
Now he's accusing you of molesting him.
621
00:36:19,686 --> 00:36:22,301
It something just doesn't make any sense.
622
00:36:23,035 --> 00:36:25,910
Jim.
You and I have known each other
623
00:36:26,010 --> 00:36:28,955
since we've been to prep school.
624
00:36:29,555 --> 00:36:31,440
You know that I am not capable...
625
00:36:31,555 --> 00:36:32,340
I know that Glenn.
626
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,285
I also know you're not
telling me the whole story.
627
00:36:36,385 --> 00:36:39,448
Will you take my case?
628
00:36:39,548 --> 00:36:42,680
Let's go see if you even
have a case to take.
629
00:36:44,180 --> 00:36:46,739
For now, I'm your lawyer,
630
00:36:46,839 --> 00:36:49,830
on the 50,000 dollar retainer,
631
00:36:49,930 --> 00:36:53,640
against $250 an hour plus expenses.
632
00:36:53,740 --> 00:36:56,356
I'll take a check if you
don't have the cash on you.
633
00:36:56,456 --> 00:36:58,860
Jim. I don't have...
634
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,419
It's just a joke.
Lighten up.
635
00:37:03,519 --> 00:37:06,210
Let's go in and see what they've got.
Okay?
636
00:37:10,379 --> 00:37:13,439
Thank you for coming down Glenn.
637
00:37:13,539 --> 00:37:16,080
I am Lucille Drake,
clinical director of DSS.
638
00:37:16,180 --> 00:37:19,950
And you are?
Jim Aikin, miss Drake.
639
00:37:20,050 --> 00:37:21,580
Dr. Erskine's attorney.
640
00:37:21,780 --> 00:37:23,055
I see.
641
00:37:23,355 --> 00:37:26,989
This is detective Marc Carter of
the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department.
642
00:37:27,089 --> 00:37:29,815
And I'm sure you know Mr. Nathan Moultrie,
the DA for Jefferson County.
643
00:37:29,915 --> 00:37:31,961
If you gentlemen will have a seat,
644
00:37:32,061 --> 00:37:33,901
we'll get started.
645
00:37:36,801 --> 00:37:39,820
Jim... What are you doing here?
This isn't your kind of case.
646
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,455
This isn't a case yet, is it?
647
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,555
Before we get started,
648
00:37:44,655 --> 00:37:46,010
I like to ask a question.
649
00:37:46,110 --> 00:37:47,490
Certainly.
650
00:37:47,810 --> 00:37:49,090
Will this interview be taped?
651
00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:51,730
I'll defer that to miss Drake.
652
00:37:51,830 --> 00:37:54,970
Yes. It will.
Videotaped? Yes.
653
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:59,366
Were you planning to
inform my client of this?
654
00:37:59,466 --> 00:38:01,485
Glenn should know.
655
00:38:01,585 --> 00:38:04,340
He's aware of our procedures
in an interview of this sort.
656
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,299
Just a minute please.
657
00:38:06,399 --> 00:38:08,055
Did you know this interview would be taped?
658
00:38:08,155 --> 00:38:09,690
Yes.
659
00:38:10,690 --> 00:38:12,316
Glenn. I'm advising you not to
answer any of their questions.
660
00:38:12,416 --> 00:38:14,710
Unless they agree not
to video the interview.
661
00:38:14,910 --> 00:38:16,925
There's a stenographer
behind that glass, Jim.
662
00:38:17,025 --> 00:38:19,830
They'll have a transcript
of everything I say.
663
00:38:19,930 --> 00:38:20,990
It doesn't matter.
664
00:38:21,090 --> 00:38:23,820
You don't want them to have a tape
of you to show the grand jury.
665
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:25,005
The grand jury!?
666
00:38:25,305 --> 00:38:28,100
Trust me on this plan.
667
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,710
My client is not going
to answer any questions
668
00:38:30,810 --> 00:38:33,051
if this interview is videotaped.
669
00:38:33,151 --> 00:38:34,351
Look Jim.
670
00:38:34,451 --> 00:38:36,981
Nathan...
He's not under arrest.
671
00:38:37,081 --> 00:38:39,741
So you can't videotape
him without his consent.
672
00:38:39,841 --> 00:38:43,641
And he doesn't consent.
673
00:38:43,741 --> 00:38:46,370
All right counselor.
No tape.
674
00:38:46,470 --> 00:38:48,981
Cut the tape, Mike.
675
00:38:49,470 --> 00:38:50,981
Can we proceed now?
676
00:38:51,470 --> 00:38:52,471
Shoot.
677
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,260
Dr. Erskine.
678
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,390
You know Tommy Jackson, do you not?
679
00:39:00,490 --> 00:39:01,900
I do.
680
00:39:02,700 --> 00:39:06,505
And he is a resident of 'New Horizons', where
you serve as director and chief of staff.
681
00:39:06,605 --> 00:39:07,581
Is that right?
682
00:39:07,681 --> 00:39:08,651
That is correct.
683
00:39:08,751 --> 00:39:11,546
Were you in Tommy Jackson's
room last night after hours?
684
00:39:11,746 --> 00:39:14,011
Yes.
I took Tommy to my son's basketball game.
685
00:39:15,181 --> 00:39:17,851
We were late because
we were at the hospital. And uh...
686
00:39:17,951 --> 00:39:19,746
One of our counselors,
687
00:39:19,846 --> 00:39:22,151
Tommy's counselor as a matter of
fact, was in a car wreck.
688
00:39:22,251 --> 00:39:25,320
He died while we were at the hospital.
689
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,401
Did you take Tommy's clothes
off after you entered his room?
690
00:39:32,230 --> 00:39:35,101
Tommy was upset when we
came back from the hospital.
691
00:39:35,201 --> 00:39:38,520
I helped him get undressed
692
00:39:38,620 --> 00:39:40,261
and ready for bed.
693
00:39:40,361 --> 00:39:42,941
At any point after that,
did you touch him?
694
00:39:44,641 --> 00:39:47,581
Please... make your questions
more specific, Mr. Carter.
695
00:39:48,581 --> 00:39:50,719
Skip that for later.
696
00:39:53,019 --> 00:39:57,769
Dr. Erskine. At any point,
did Tommy touch you?
697
00:39:57,869 --> 00:40:01,720
Again Mr. Carter.
Please make your questions more specific.
698
00:40:01,820 --> 00:40:03,390
Mr. Akin.
699
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,290
I don't see what you
ponder with these questions.
700
00:40:06,990 --> 00:40:08,390
They are simple enough.
701
00:40:09,436 --> 00:40:12,711
They are simple.
Too simple.
702
00:40:12,811 --> 00:40:14,946
You are asking 'yes' or 'no' questions.
703
00:40:15,046 --> 00:40:16,716
My client could answer
'yes' to your question.
704
00:40:16,816 --> 00:40:18,820
Without further qualification,
705
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,531
he could be accused of admitting
706
00:40:21,931 --> 00:40:24,231
to virtually anything that
qualifies as a touch.
707
00:40:24,331 --> 00:40:26,300
Now...
If you want to ask him something specific.
708
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,311
Like: 'Did you punch Tommy in the nose?',
709
00:40:28,411 --> 00:40:31,431
he'll be glad to answer.
710
00:40:31,531 --> 00:40:34,191
Otherwise. I suggest you
move on to something else.
711
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,779
Dr. Erskine.
Did you engage in affectionate contact
712
00:40:44,879 --> 00:40:46,925
with Tommy in his bed last night?
713
00:40:48,325 --> 00:40:52,685
Nathan. Please refrain from asking
vague and loaded questions.
714
00:40:54,500 --> 00:40:56,671
Now.
Unless the boys up at the legislature
715
00:40:56,771 --> 00:40:57,926
have come up with a whole
716
00:40:58,026 --> 00:41:00,241
bunch of new laws that
I haven't heard about,
717
00:41:00,341 --> 00:41:02,986
I don't believe affectionate contact
718
00:41:03,086 --> 00:41:06,266
with a child is a crime in this state.
719
00:41:06,366 --> 00:41:09,176
If it is... we're all in serious trouble.
720
00:41:09,276 --> 00:41:11,475
Dr. Erskine.
Did you engage in petting with Tommy?
721
00:41:11,575 --> 00:41:13,425
In the current situation
722
00:41:13,525 --> 00:41:15,435
we must assume that the
term 'petting' is...
723
00:41:15,535 --> 00:41:17,681
pejorative and therefore
prejudicial to my client.
724
00:41:17,781 --> 00:41:20,901
I would again ask that your
questions be more specific.
725
00:41:21,901 --> 00:41:22,901
All right.
726
00:41:23,001 --> 00:41:24,181
Specifically.
727
00:41:25,201 --> 00:41:28,462
Did you run your fingers
through Tommy's hair, massage his scalp?
728
00:41:28,646 --> 00:41:29,546
Yes.
729
00:41:29,646 --> 00:41:30,546
His back?
730
00:41:30,646 --> 00:41:31,546
Yes.
731
00:41:31,646 --> 00:41:32,546
His buttocks?
732
00:41:32,646 --> 00:41:33,710
No.
733
00:41:33,810 --> 00:41:36,126
Did you at any time fondle Tommy?
734
00:41:36,226 --> 00:41:37,431
No, I did not.
735
00:41:37,531 --> 00:41:39,891
Did you masturbate Tommy to orgasm?
736
00:41:39,991 --> 00:41:42,560
I don't believe this!
737
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,495
Look. Just answer his question.
738
00:41:44,595 --> 00:41:48,810
No. I did not masturbate Tommy.
Did he tell you I did?
739
00:41:50,010 --> 00:41:53,471
Dr. Erskine. Did you perform anal
intercourse on Tommy last night?
740
00:41:53,571 --> 00:41:55,185
You've got to be kidding.
741
00:41:55,285 --> 00:41:57,325
Please answer the question.
742
00:41:57,425 --> 00:41:59,725
No. I did not.
743
00:42:01,125 --> 00:42:03,800
For God's sakes.
I was only in his room for a few minutes.
744
00:42:03,900 --> 00:42:06,301
Curtis Sloan was there the whole
time just ten feet away.
745
00:42:06,401 --> 00:42:07,940
Do you actually believe I would try
746
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,116
something like that with Tommy's
747
00:42:10,216 --> 00:42:12,431
roommate right there?
748
00:42:13,231 --> 00:42:16,881
Dr. Erskine. Did you visit Tommy
at the school yesterday morning?
749
00:42:16,981 --> 00:42:20,041
Dr. Erskine.
Would you like me to repeat the question?
750
00:42:20,141 --> 00:42:23,231
Yes. I went to Tommy school yesterday.
751
00:42:23,331 --> 00:42:25,796
And you removed him from class, correct?
752
00:42:25,896 --> 00:42:27,220
Yes.
753
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,970
And where did you go,
once you removed him from class?
754
00:42:31,870 --> 00:42:33,405
He... we went to the bathroom.
755
00:42:33,805 --> 00:42:35,439
Tommy had to use the bathroom.
756
00:42:35,939 --> 00:42:39,660
And uh... what did you and Tommy do
after you went into the restroom?
757
00:42:40,081 --> 00:42:42,740
Tommy urinated. Like I said.
He had to use the bathroom.
758
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:44,901
And uh... where were you
while he was urinating?
759
00:42:45,001 --> 00:42:46,911
Well... over by the sinks.
760
00:42:47,011 --> 00:42:49,092
You did not stand beside him
and watch him urinate?
761
00:42:49,192 --> 00:42:50,193
I did not.
762
00:42:51,092 --> 00:42:53,540
You did not stand beside him and
made comments about the size of his penis?
763
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:54,641
No.
764
00:42:55,701 --> 00:42:57,701
After Tommy finished urinating,
765
00:42:57,801 --> 00:43:00,201
did you ask him to fondle himself
to produce an erection?
766
00:43:00,301 --> 00:43:01,401
What?
767
00:43:01,501 --> 00:43:01,882
Did you?
768
00:43:01,982 --> 00:43:04,471
Like I said, I was standing by the sinks.
769
00:43:04,571 --> 00:43:07,036
Tommy was over at the urinal.
770
00:43:07,136 --> 00:43:10,376
After Tommy finished urinating.
Did you perform oral sex on him?
771
00:43:11,376 --> 00:43:14,610
Did Tommy tell you that
I did all these things?
772
00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:16,651
Answer the question please.
773
00:43:17,460 --> 00:43:18,865
No. I did not.
774
00:43:19,460 --> 00:43:20,865
Tommy urinated and then we talked.
775
00:43:20,965 --> 00:43:22,901
That's all that happened.
776
00:43:24,201 --> 00:43:25,396
Did he perform oral sex on you?
777
00:43:25,496 --> 00:43:27,650
I don't believe this. I don't believe this.
778
00:43:28,196 --> 00:43:29,296
Just answer his question.
779
00:43:29,396 --> 00:43:31,397
No, no, no, no, no!
780
00:43:31,850 --> 00:43:35,669
Tommy and I talked. We talked.
That's it.
781
00:43:35,769 --> 00:43:37,400
About what?
782
00:43:37,769 --> 00:43:40,000
It was a personal matter.
783
00:43:40,100 --> 00:43:42,981
Did it have anything to do
with Sunday night at your home?
784
00:43:43,081 --> 00:43:44,082
What?
785
00:43:45,081 --> 00:43:46,780
Dr. Erskine...
786
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,020
Tommy Jackson spent Sunday
night in your home, did he not?
787
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,299
Nathan. At this time I'm advising
788
00:43:52,399 --> 00:43:55,351
my client not to answer
any further questions.
789
00:43:56,649 --> 00:44:01,570
This interview is concluded.
790
00:44:07,730 --> 00:44:08,731
Thank you.
791
00:44:11,269 --> 00:44:14,286
I, uh...
thank you for going with me to the DSS.
792
00:44:14,386 --> 00:44:16,740
It's clear to me now, I would have
793
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,666
blundered pretty badly without your input.
794
00:44:22,490 --> 00:44:25,166
Buddy. You blundered pretty bad
with me sitting right beside you.
795
00:44:25,266 --> 00:44:27,281
I have to tell you Glenn.
796
00:44:27,381 --> 00:44:29,499
I'm having second thoughts
797
00:44:29,599 --> 00:44:31,480
about representing you in this matter.
798
00:44:31,580 --> 00:44:32,480
Jim. You don't think...
799
00:44:32,580 --> 00:44:34,150
I didn't mean that Glenn.
800
00:44:34,250 --> 00:44:36,820
But Moultry was right.
This is not my kind of case.
801
00:44:37,620 --> 00:44:39,311
I'm not a criminal defense attorney.
802
00:44:39,411 --> 00:44:41,830
Hell. I'm not even sure what
they can charge you with.
803
00:44:41,930 --> 00:44:43,765
Well. I've had to testify as an
expert in a lot of cases like this.
804
00:44:43,865 --> 00:44:46,481
And I'm pretty familiar with the law.
805
00:44:47,895 --> 00:44:51,056
Tommy is under fourteen and he's
telling them that I sodomized.
806
00:44:51,156 --> 00:44:57,706
I'm looking at a charge of...
felony sexual conduct.
807
00:45:00,109 --> 00:45:01,840
It's a felony, Jim.
808
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:03,540
You see.
809
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:04,349
You want me to be your lawyer,
810
00:45:04,449 --> 00:45:05,956
and I didn't even know that.
811
00:45:06,056 --> 00:45:08,212
It doesn't matter.
You're the best lawyer in town.
812
00:45:08,312 --> 00:45:09,456
And you're my friend.
813
00:45:09,556 --> 00:45:12,461
Now... if it's a matter of money...
814
00:45:12,561 --> 00:45:15,591
Hey... If you ask me to represent
you, then I will.
815
00:45:15,691 --> 00:45:17,955
There is no matter of money.
816
00:45:18,055 --> 00:45:20,350
I'm asking you to represent me.
817
00:45:20,450 --> 00:45:21,859
Then I will.
818
00:45:22,450 --> 00:45:24,759
You now have an attorney.
819
00:45:24,859 --> 00:45:26,635
Probe on.
820
00:45:26,859 --> 00:45:28,535
Are they going to arrest me?
821
00:45:28,635 --> 00:45:29,775
Ooh, yeah.
822
00:45:32,377 --> 00:45:34,175
You asked me a straight question. Glenn.
823
00:45:34,275 --> 00:45:36,320
You better expect a straight answer.
824
00:45:36,420 --> 00:45:38,301
Do you actually think
they're going to arrest me?
825
00:45:38,401 --> 00:45:39,401
Yeah!
826
00:45:39,501 --> 00:45:40,502
Why?
827
00:45:40,650 --> 00:45:43,750
Glenn. This is serious enough for the
DA himself to be in on it at this stage.
828
00:45:43,850 --> 00:45:46,411
They know everything
Tommy is accusing you of.
829
00:45:46,511 --> 00:45:48,181
We don't.
830
00:45:49,081 --> 00:45:51,451
There's more to this than just
last night in Tommy's room.
831
00:45:51,551 --> 00:45:52,921
We've got the restroom at school yesterday.
832
00:45:53,021 --> 00:45:56,041
And there's this deal with Sunday night.
833
00:45:56,141 --> 00:45:58,720
Tommy spent the night at your house?
834
00:45:58,820 --> 00:45:59,821
Yes.
835
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:01,236
Why?
836
00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:02,536
It's a long story.
837
00:46:02,636 --> 00:46:05,850
Okay. We'll save it for later.
838
00:46:05,950 --> 00:46:07,711
But what in the world were you doing
839
00:46:07,811 --> 00:46:09,266
in the restroom with him at his school?
840
00:46:09,366 --> 00:46:11,110
I had something important
to discuss with him.
841
00:46:11,210 --> 00:46:14,320
Involved up in the
restroom, just like I said.
842
00:46:14,620 --> 00:46:17,552
Tommy had to pee. It's as simple as that.
843
00:46:17,652 --> 00:46:20,541
And then that business about
me watching him urinating...
844
00:46:22,541 --> 00:46:25,111
About me having oral sex with him?
845
00:46:25,211 --> 00:46:26,685
That's all nonsense.
846
00:46:26,785 --> 00:46:27,810
I mean Tommy walked over.
847
00:46:27,910 --> 00:46:30,195
He sat down next to me
after he was finished.
848
00:46:30,295 --> 00:46:32,820
And we talked. That's it.
849
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,020
Don't suppose, there was anyone else
in the rest room who could verify?
850
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:36,992
No. We were alone.
851
00:46:37,092 --> 00:46:39,106
What was so important that you drove out
852
00:46:39,206 --> 00:46:39,870
to Tommy school and took him out
of class to discuss it with him?
853
00:46:39,970 --> 00:46:42,141
I can't tell you that.
854
00:46:43,766 --> 00:46:46,936
I promised someone I wouldn't... reveal it.
855
00:46:47,036 --> 00:46:48,700
And I just can't. That's it.
856
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,311
I take it, you're speaking of whatever
it was, you almost told John Brantley?
857
00:46:52,411 --> 00:46:53,412
Yes.
858
00:46:54,351 --> 00:46:56,941
And Sunday night is tied
to this in someway?
859
00:46:57,041 --> 00:46:58,042
Yes.
860
00:46:59,641 --> 00:47:01,731
And whatever this is, you won't reveal?
861
00:47:01,831 --> 00:47:05,042
It will clear you of this accusation?
Probably.
862
00:47:05,142 --> 00:47:08,161
Or couldn't make me look even more guilty.
863
00:47:08,461 --> 00:47:10,701
Well... I think you've
given me enough clues
864
00:47:10,801 --> 00:47:10,961
that I can figure out,
865
00:47:11,061 --> 00:47:12,821
at least partially, your predicament.
866
00:47:12,921 --> 00:47:15,046
See if this sounds about it right.
867
00:47:16,981 --> 00:47:18,611
Tommy Jackson was molested.
868
00:47:19,111 --> 00:47:21,600
You didn't do it but you know who did.
869
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,030
I'm guessing, it was someone else
connected with 'New Horizons'.
870
00:47:25,130 --> 00:47:27,220
And for some reason,
you agreed not to report the person.
871
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:28,381
Am I right?
872
00:47:28,581 --> 00:47:29,592
How do you know?
873
00:47:29,692 --> 00:47:31,001
I thought so.
874
00:47:31,101 --> 00:47:32,201
For the life of me Glenn,
875
00:47:32,301 --> 00:47:34,496
I can't figure out why
you would not report it.
876
00:47:34,596 --> 00:47:35,680
Who did it?
877
00:47:36,380 --> 00:47:38,600
Who would you be willing
to go to jail to protect?
878
00:47:38,700 --> 00:47:40,471
I can't tell you that right now.
879
00:47:40,971 --> 00:47:42,615
Glenn.
I have to tell your buddy.
880
00:47:43,515 --> 00:47:45,605
You came across guilty as sin back there.
881
00:47:46,005 --> 00:47:48,050
It's only a matter of time
before you're charged.
882
00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:49,206
I am innocent.
883
00:47:49,406 --> 00:47:50,461
I know.
884
00:47:50,649 --> 00:47:53,286
But it's time for a reality check.
885
00:47:54,986 --> 00:47:58,130
Once you're accused of this,
your life as you know it is over.
886
00:48:00,130 --> 00:48:01,890
You may be cleared of all charges,
887
00:48:01,990 --> 00:48:04,290
but the accusation will stay with you,
888
00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:05,490
for the rest of your life.
889
00:48:05,590 --> 00:48:08,091
Just the mere suspicion
that you might have done it
890
00:48:08,470 --> 00:48:10,595
is enough to taint you.
891
00:48:11,395 --> 00:48:13,495
Once you're accused of molesting a child,
892
00:48:13,595 --> 00:48:15,556
there simply is no return to innocence.
893
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,810
Dad...
Where's mom?
894
00:48:34,910 --> 00:48:36,671
To Benjamin, to get some icecream.
895
00:48:36,771 --> 00:48:38,531
She should be back by now.
896
00:48:38,631 --> 00:48:40,600
Why?
What's going on?
897
00:48:40,700 --> 00:48:43,111
We're skindipping dad.
We don't have anything on.
898
00:48:44,751 --> 00:48:46,395
Wanna come do with this?
No son.
899
00:48:46,495 --> 00:48:48,440
I just came out to check on you guys.
900
00:49:05,399 --> 00:49:07,299
What is this all about?
901
00:49:07,399 --> 00:49:08,330
Are you okay, daddy?
902
00:49:08,430 --> 00:49:09,596
What do you mean?
903
00:49:09,730 --> 00:49:11,496
You've been acting weird today.
904
00:49:11,596 --> 00:49:14,090
I just had a really bad day, son.
905
00:49:14,190 --> 00:49:15,400
Don't worry about it.
906
00:49:15,890 --> 00:49:17,400
Go and play with your friends.
907
00:49:17,710 --> 00:49:18,940
Glenn Michael Erskine.
908
00:49:19,210 --> 00:49:21,740
Where are your clothes, son?
909
00:49:21,940 --> 00:49:24,495
Officer.
This is my son.
910
00:49:24,595 --> 00:49:27,980
Twenty-one.
Suspect is behind the house at the pool.
911
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:29,541
He got a naked boy back here.
912
00:49:29,641 --> 00:49:31,126
Look officer. I can explain.
913
00:49:31,926 --> 00:49:33,267
Was he molesting you, son?
914
00:49:33,746 --> 00:49:35,167
This is my dad, you asshole.
915
00:49:35,661 --> 00:49:38,262
Peter... You apologize to this
man, right now.
916
00:49:39,161 --> 00:49:40,162
Sorry.
917
00:49:45,340 --> 00:49:46,499
Glenn Michael Erskine.
918
00:49:47,399 --> 00:49:50,046
I have a warrant for your arrest for the
sexual molestation of Thomas Wayne Jackson.
919
00:49:50,146 --> 00:49:52,611
You have the right to remain silent.
920
00:49:52,711 --> 00:49:54,861
If you give up that right...
921
00:49:54,961 --> 00:49:57,320
Anything you say may be used
against you in a court of law.
922
00:49:57,420 --> 00:49:58,895
You have the right to an attorney.
923
00:49:58,995 --> 00:50:00,935
If you can't afford one,
we provide it for you.
924
00:50:01,035 --> 00:50:03,075
You understand these
rights as I explained them?
925
00:50:03,175 --> 00:50:04,175
Yes.
926
00:50:04,275 --> 00:50:05,210
Daddy!
927
00:50:05,310 --> 00:50:06,810
Honey...
Come get him
928
00:50:09,499 --> 00:50:12,390
All right doctor. It's time to go.
929
00:50:12,490 --> 00:50:14,961
Call Jim Aikin, honey.
Tell him what has happened.
930
00:50:15,161 --> 00:50:16,851
He'll know what to do.
931
00:50:19,669 --> 00:50:23,291
The defendants plea of not
guilty on all charges is ended.
932
00:50:23,391 --> 00:50:25,765
Let the record show that,
933
00:50:25,865 --> 00:50:27,955
based on the evidence
and testimony presented,
934
00:50:28,055 --> 00:50:30,520
the court finds probable cause
935
00:50:30,620 --> 00:50:33,701
that the defendant Michael Erskine
936
00:50:33,801 --> 00:50:36,521
commit the crimes from
which he has been charged.
937
00:50:36,621 --> 00:50:38,411
The defendant will remain
free on his own resident
938
00:50:38,511 --> 00:50:42,246
until the grand jury makes
its ruling in this matter.
939
00:50:51,499 --> 00:50:54,650
You really tied my hands in there, Glenn.
940
00:50:54,750 --> 00:50:56,795
And you virtually guaranteed
this is going to trial.
941
00:50:56,895 --> 00:50:59,001
All because a promise
you made to a dead man.
942
00:50:59,101 --> 00:51:01,941
I can't help it, Jim.
943
00:51:02,041 --> 00:51:04,341
I promised Chris Manning
I wouldn't let his wife find out.
944
00:51:04,441 --> 00:51:05,631
And I won't.
945
00:51:06,031 --> 00:51:08,151
And I'm doing this as much
for Tommy as I am for Chris.
946
00:51:08,251 --> 00:51:09,411
For Tommy!?
947
00:51:09,611 --> 00:51:11,140
Glen.
Listen to me!
948
00:51:11,611 --> 00:51:13,340
You're going to trial for a crime
949
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,980
that could put you in jail
for the rest of your life.
950
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,683
We could make all this go away.
Right here, right now.
951
00:51:18,783 --> 00:51:22,086
But you wouldn't let me use the
one defense that could clear you.
952
00:51:22,186 --> 00:51:23,737
Well... that'll all change at the trial.
953
00:51:23,837 --> 00:51:24,891
What do you mean?
954
00:51:24,991 --> 00:51:26,646
I mean, you may not be willing
to tell me what happened.
955
00:51:26,746 --> 00:51:28,686
When I get Tommy Jackson on the
stand, he will.
956
00:51:28,786 --> 00:51:30,921
You can bet on that.
957
00:51:31,021 --> 00:51:32,840
Now you listen to me, Jim.
958
00:51:32,940 --> 00:51:34,786
I don't care what Tommy says I did to him.
959
00:51:34,886 --> 00:51:36,530
You will not vilify him in that courtroom.
960
00:51:36,630 --> 00:51:39,321
And you will not do anything to force him
961
00:51:39,421 --> 00:51:41,270
to break my promise to Chris.
962
00:51:41,370 --> 00:51:43,606
Do you understand?
963
00:51:43,706 --> 00:51:44,606
Hell no!
964
00:51:44,706 --> 00:51:46,041
I don't understand.
965
00:51:59,139 --> 00:52:00,239
Chad.
966
00:52:00,339 --> 00:52:01,240
Why aren't you in school?
967
00:52:01,340 --> 00:52:03,540
I felt sick this morning when I got up.
968
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:06,340
Glenn...
969
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,160
None of us believed you did it.
970
00:52:08,260 --> 00:52:10,839
That's what we told that DA-guy.
971
00:52:10,939 --> 00:52:12,656
Thanks Chad.
972
00:52:12,939 --> 00:52:15,556
And remember to say thank you to the boys,
will you?
973
00:52:15,656 --> 00:52:16,660
Yeah.
974
00:52:20,356 --> 00:52:21,456
I gotta go.
975
00:52:21,556 --> 00:52:22,460
Bye Chad.
976
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:23,661
See you Glen.
977
00:52:39,298 --> 00:52:40,198
Is the prosecution ready?
978
00:52:40,298 --> 00:52:41,299
Yes, your honour.
979
00:52:41,783 --> 00:52:42,683
The defence?
980
00:52:42,783 --> 00:52:43,833
Ready, your honour.
981
00:52:44,421 --> 00:52:45,675
Mr. Moultrie.
You may begin.
982
00:52:45,775 --> 00:52:47,568
Thank you, your honour.
983
00:52:47,668 --> 00:52:49,159
I plead the court.
984
00:52:52,959 --> 00:52:55,439
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury.
985
00:52:55,539 --> 00:52:58,019
As the judge informed you yesterday,
986
00:52:58,119 --> 00:52:59,264
before you took your oath.
987
00:52:59,364 --> 00:53:03,165
This case involves the
most heinous of crimes.
988
00:53:03,265 --> 00:53:07,216
Child sexual molestation.
That of a 13 year old boy,
989
00:53:07,316 --> 00:53:10,560
under the care of the defendant.
990
00:53:10,660 --> 00:53:13,915
The evidence will show
ladies and gentlemen,
991
00:53:14,015 --> 00:53:18,111
that Dr. Glenn Erskine
sexually assaulted this boy
992
00:53:18,211 --> 00:53:20,291
on three separate occasions.
993
00:53:21,491 --> 00:53:24,916
The evidence...?
994
00:53:25,016 --> 00:53:27,691
The boy himself will tell
you what this man did to him.
995
00:53:27,791 --> 00:53:30,580
And there will be medical testimony
996
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,295
that will corroborate the boys testimony,
997
00:53:33,395 --> 00:53:37,501
that he was brutally
sodomized by the defendant.
998
00:53:37,601 --> 00:53:40,140
The facts will show,
999
00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:42,870
Dr. Glenn Erskine is a
man with a long history
1000
00:53:42,970 --> 00:53:46,141
of deviant pursuits and interests.
1001
00:53:46,241 --> 00:53:52,401
All shrouded in a pseudo legitimacy
of clinical professionalism.
1002
00:53:53,501 --> 00:53:57,280
The fact? The facts will show, that the
defendant is indeed a pedophile.
1003
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:01,890
His own published writings
will tell you his beliefs,
1004
00:54:01,990 --> 00:54:06,120
on pedophilia and sex with children.
1005
00:54:07,170 --> 00:54:08,475
He is in favor of it.
1006
00:54:09,075 --> 00:54:10,235
That's a lie.
1007
00:54:10,335 --> 00:54:13,519
Dr. Erskine. I will not tolerate
any outburst in my courtroom.
1008
00:54:14,739 --> 00:54:15,639
Mr. Aikins.
1009
00:54:15,739 --> 00:54:17,241
I expect you to
keep your client under control.
1010
00:54:17,341 --> 00:54:18,437
Yes, your honour.
1011
00:54:18,537 --> 00:54:20,271
Sit down Glenn.
1012
00:54:20,537 --> 00:54:21,437
But he said...
1013
00:54:21,537 --> 00:54:22,538
Down Glenn.
1014
00:54:26,388 --> 00:54:28,989
I believe ladies and gentlemen of the jury,
1015
00:54:29,089 --> 00:54:32,010
that, once you have heard
all the facts of this case,
1016
00:54:32,110 --> 00:54:35,880
that you will find that Dr. Glenn Erskine,
1017
00:54:36,780 --> 00:54:39,689
without a doubt, is a pedophile.
1018
00:54:39,789 --> 00:54:43,068
That he committed these terrible crimes,
1019
00:54:43,168 --> 00:54:46,439
and he should be punished for it.
1020
00:54:49,539 --> 00:54:50,740
Mr. Aiken.
1021
00:54:51,328 --> 00:54:53,480
Thank you, your honour.
1022
00:54:58,470 --> 00:54:59,370
The facts...
1023
00:54:59,470 --> 00:55:02,998
The evidence...
What are we to do with the facts?
1024
00:55:03,098 --> 00:55:06,750
That is after all what
this case is all about.
1025
00:55:06,850 --> 00:55:08,369
The facts.
1026
00:55:09,269 --> 00:55:12,435
I studied philosophy under a professor
1027
00:55:12,535 --> 00:55:15,759
who taught that there is no such
thing as an uninterpreted fact.
1028
00:55:16,359 --> 00:55:17,701
No fact exists outside
our interpretation of it.
1029
00:55:17,801 --> 00:55:20,431
Let me give you an example.
1030
00:55:20,531 --> 00:55:24,030
Suppose we see the fact of a car wreck
out in front of the courthouse.
1031
00:55:24,130 --> 00:55:26,970
That fact does not remain,
not even for a split second,
1032
00:55:27,070 --> 00:55:28,400
an uninterpreted event.
1033
00:55:29,900 --> 00:55:32,261
We hear the screech of tires.
We see the metal bend, the glass breaks,
1034
00:55:32,361 --> 00:55:34,669
and immediately our minds are at work.
1035
00:55:35,869 --> 00:55:38,989
Contextualizing, grappling,
trying to understand.
1036
00:55:39,889 --> 00:55:41,689
Did the brakes fail?
1037
00:55:41,789 --> 00:55:42,789
Did the driver not see the stoplight?
1038
00:55:42,889 --> 00:55:45,789
Perhaps he was intoxicated.
1039
00:55:45,889 --> 00:55:49,059
Perhaps he was a madman,
bent on destruction.
1040
00:55:49,159 --> 00:55:51,780
Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.
1041
00:55:52,380 --> 00:55:53,526
And so it goes.
1042
00:55:53,626 --> 00:55:55,615
Until we are comfortable
with an interpretation,
1043
00:55:55,715 --> 00:55:57,745
which seems to fit the
facts as we understand them.
1044
00:55:57,845 --> 00:56:00,379
And the more we know about the facts,
1045
00:56:00,479 --> 00:56:02,606
the closer our interpretation
comes to being accurate.
1046
00:56:02,706 --> 00:56:04,855
Closer it comes to the truth.
1047
00:56:05,055 --> 00:56:07,861
And that is really what
this case is all about.
1048
00:56:07,961 --> 00:56:10,210
Looking at the facts in the proper context.
1049
00:56:10,310 --> 00:56:12,290
I'm trying to reach an
interpretation of them,
1050
00:56:12,390 --> 00:56:14,936
which is as close to the
truth as humanly possible.
1051
00:56:15,036 --> 00:56:19,090
I would submit to you that many
of the facts in this case
1052
00:56:19,190 --> 00:56:22,569
are incontrovertible,
others the prosecution
1053
00:56:22,669 --> 00:56:24,901
would like you to believe, or such.
But they really aren't.
1054
00:56:25,001 --> 00:56:28,862
But in the end. You are the finders
of fact, ladies and gentlemen.
1055
00:56:28,962 --> 00:56:32,710
You must put the facts
in the proper context,
1056
00:56:32,810 --> 00:56:34,876
in order to understand.
1057
00:56:34,976 --> 00:56:37,990
In order to interpet.
In order to arrive at the truth.
1058
00:56:39,490 --> 00:56:41,492
Mr. Moultrie has already
given you a context
1059
00:56:41,592 --> 00:56:43,956
in which to interpret
the facts of this case.
1060
00:56:45,456 --> 00:56:47,146
Did you catch it?
1061
00:56:47,246 --> 00:56:49,386
Did you realize that's what he was doing?
1062
00:56:49,486 --> 00:56:52,040
The context Mr. Moultrie sets all the facts
1063
00:56:52,140 --> 00:56:54,874
against his sexual deviance... pedophilia.
1064
00:56:54,974 --> 00:56:57,355
And that's the context
in which he wants you
1065
00:56:57,455 --> 00:57:00,550
to interpret the facts of this case.
1066
00:57:00,650 --> 00:57:02,965
But is that the correct context?
1067
00:57:03,065 --> 00:57:04,720
In one sense it is.
1068
00:57:05,300 --> 00:57:08,446
My client does have an interest
in pedophilia and child abuse.
1069
00:57:09,946 --> 00:57:12,306
He has two earned doctorates.
1070
00:57:12,406 --> 00:57:15,081
One clinical degree in which he was trained
as a therapist.
1071
00:57:15,181 --> 00:57:17,611
A therapist for what?
1072
00:57:17,781 --> 00:57:19,711
The treatment of sexual abuse victims.
1073
00:57:20,111 --> 00:57:25,297
His other doctorate is a clinical
study into the phenomenon of pederast.
1074
00:57:28,297 --> 00:57:30,860
I noticed, this is a term most
of you are not familiar with.
1075
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:36,941
Broadly defined: 'Pederasty' is the close
intimate and sometimes sexual relationship
1076
00:57:37,241 --> 00:57:38,756
between a man and a boy.
1077
00:57:39,256 --> 00:57:40,156
It has existed for thousands of years
1078
00:57:40,256 --> 00:57:41,121
and it perplexes most people
1079
00:57:41,221 --> 00:57:43,146
Like Mr. Moultrie here.
1080
00:57:43,246 --> 00:57:45,120
Who would like to dismiss it,
1081
00:57:45,220 --> 00:57:47,251
as just another form of child abuse.
1082
00:57:47,351 --> 00:57:50,992
But even though the psychological
community is aware of this phenomenon,
1083
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:53,256
they don't like to talk about it too much.
1084
00:57:53,356 --> 00:57:55,806
Dr. Erskine is considered a
leading expert on this subject
1085
00:57:55,906 --> 00:57:59,407
and has published numerous books
and journal articles on it.
1086
00:58:00,196 --> 00:58:02,420
But does that make him a child molester?
1087
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,546
Thus someone whose research interests
1088
00:58:06,646 --> 00:58:09,696
are in say serial killers and mass murder
1089
00:58:09,796 --> 00:58:12,391
make that person a murderer?
1090
00:58:12,491 --> 00:58:14,881
I think we all know the
answer to that question.
1091
00:58:15,481 --> 00:58:18,460
So... Let me leave you with one
thought, ladies and gentlemen
1092
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:21,080
Once you look at the facts of this case
1093
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:23,931
in their proper context,
every bit of evidence
1094
00:58:24,831 --> 00:58:27,291
that I and the prosecution will present,
1095
00:58:27,391 --> 00:58:29,231
every word of testimony,
1096
00:58:29,331 --> 00:58:30,856
will point to one simple truth.
1097
00:58:30,956 --> 00:58:35,331
Glenn Erskine did not
sexually molest Tommy Jackson.
1098
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:49,616
You may call your first
witness, Mr. Moultrie.
1099
00:58:49,716 --> 00:58:51,271
Thank you, your honour.
1100
00:58:51,571 --> 00:58:53,861
The state calls Thomas Wayne Jackson.
1101
00:59:13,519 --> 00:59:16,750
Raise your right hand, young man.
1102
00:59:16,850 --> 00:59:19,210
Do you solemnly swear, or affirm that
1103
00:59:19,310 --> 00:59:22,061
the testimony you are about
to give is the truth,
1104
00:59:22,161 --> 00:59:25,156
the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth?
1105
00:59:25,256 --> 00:59:26,179
Yes.
1106
00:59:26,279 --> 00:59:27,300
Please, sit down.
1107
00:59:36,189 --> 00:59:38,039
Please state your full name.
1108
00:59:39,339 --> 00:59:42,107
Thomas Wayne Jackson.
Everybody just calls me Tommy.
1109
00:59:42,207 --> 00:59:43,326
And how old you Tommy?
1110
00:59:43,426 --> 00:59:44,526
Thirteen.
1111
00:59:45,626 --> 00:59:48,626
And how long have you been a resident
at the 'New Horizons'-Boys home?
1112
00:59:48,726 --> 00:59:50,340
Uh... about five months I think.
1113
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:53,551
So you are a resident there
this last September? Correct?
1114
00:59:53,651 --> 00:59:54,821
Yeah.
1115
00:59:54,921 --> 00:59:56,739
The night,
the weekend of September 16th,
1116
00:59:56,839 --> 00:59:59,431
you spent that weekend at Dr. Erskine home.
Correct?
1117
00:59:59,531 --> 01:00:00,641
Yes.
1118
01:00:01,841 --> 01:00:04,146
Tell what happened the last night there.
1119
01:00:04,246 --> 01:00:05,989
The night of September seventeen.
1120
01:00:07,589 --> 01:00:10,481
Glenn... came in my
room after I got to bed.
1121
01:00:10,881 --> 01:00:13,276
He got in bed with me.
1122
01:00:13,376 --> 01:00:15,156
And started hugging and kissing me.
1123
01:00:16,556 --> 01:00:18,581
And where did he kiss you, Tommy?
1124
01:00:19,381 --> 01:00:22,641
On the face at first, and then on the neck,
1125
01:00:22,741 --> 01:00:25,911
and then on the lips.
1126
01:00:26,011 --> 01:00:26,911
He stucked his tongue in my mouth.
1127
01:00:27,011 --> 01:00:29,586
And what happened next?
1128
01:00:29,686 --> 01:00:32,631
He started kissing and licking my chest.
1129
01:00:32,731 --> 01:00:34,291
Was he doing anything else
to you at the same time?
1130
01:00:34,391 --> 01:00:36,051
Yeah.
1131
01:00:36,169 --> 01:00:39,100
He was feeling me up.
1132
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:42,279
You mean Dr. Erskine
was touching your penis?
1133
01:00:42,379 --> 01:00:44,070
Yeah... sort of.
1134
01:00:44,379 --> 01:00:46,570
I still had my underwear on.
1135
01:00:47,470 --> 01:00:51,706
Did Dr. Erskine had his hand
inside your underpants?
1136
01:00:51,806 --> 01:00:53,261
I don't remember.
1137
01:00:53,361 --> 01:00:55,080
I think so.
1138
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:56,880
And what happened next?
1139
01:00:56,980 --> 01:00:59,630
Glenn...
pulled down my underwear.
1140
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:02,930
He did it with his mouth.
1141
01:01:04,830 --> 01:01:08,320
Dr. Erskine performed oral sex on you,
didn't he, Tommy?
1142
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:10,130
Yeah.
1143
01:01:10,930 --> 01:01:14,541
And what happened when Dr. Erskine finished
performing oral sex on you?
1144
01:01:15,941 --> 01:01:18,341
He said he wanted me to do to him.
1145
01:01:18,441 --> 01:01:21,746
So... Dr. Erskine made you
perform oral sex on him?
1146
01:01:22,946 --> 01:01:24,500
Yeah.
1147
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:27,500
Then what happened?
1148
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:30,890
I laid down beside.
1149
01:01:30,990 --> 01:01:33,136
Glenn put his arm around me.
1150
01:01:33,236 --> 01:01:35,031
We laid like that for a while.
1151
01:01:35,979 --> 01:01:39,415
He started rubbing his hand
through my hair and stuff.
1152
01:01:39,515 --> 01:01:42,461
I finally went to sleep.
1153
01:01:42,561 --> 01:01:45,190
But Dr. Erskine woke you later,
didn't he, Tommy?
1154
01:01:45,490 --> 01:01:46,550
Yeah.
1155
01:01:47,650 --> 01:01:50,745
And how did Dr. Erskine awaken you?
1156
01:01:51,745 --> 01:01:53,100
I was lying on my stomach.
1157
01:01:53,700 --> 01:01:56,719
I woke up and I felt something.
Glenn was...
1158
01:02:00,419 --> 01:02:03,436
What was Dr. Erskine trying to do, Tommy?
1159
01:02:03,836 --> 01:02:06,550
I don't want to talk about this anymore.
1160
01:02:06,650 --> 01:02:08,331
Permission to lead, your honour.
1161
01:02:08,650 --> 01:02:09,240
Go ahead.
1162
01:02:09,340 --> 01:02:11,891
Dr. Erskine performed
anal intercourse on you.
1163
01:02:11,991 --> 01:02:13,711
Didn't he, Tommy?
1164
01:02:13,811 --> 01:02:14,870
Yeah.
1165
01:02:14,970 --> 01:02:17,670
Dr. Erskine come and visit you
the next day at school?
1166
01:02:18,735 --> 01:02:19,935
Yeah.
1167
01:02:20,035 --> 01:02:23,846
Did doctor Erskine follow you into the
restroom, the next day at your school?
1168
01:02:24,635 --> 01:02:25,646
Yeah.
1169
01:02:26,956 --> 01:02:29,556
And while in the restroom,
Dr. Erskine performed oral sex on you,
1170
01:02:29,656 --> 01:02:32,721
and made you perform oral sex on him.
1171
01:02:32,821 --> 01:02:34,721
Is that correct?
1172
01:02:34,821 --> 01:02:35,705
Yeah.
1173
01:02:35,805 --> 01:02:38,555
And in your room, the 'New Horizons'
boys home, later that night,
1174
01:02:38,655 --> 01:02:42,390
Dr. Erskine performed
oral and anal sex on you.
1175
01:02:42,490 --> 01:02:44,169
Didn't he, Tommy?
1176
01:02:46,069 --> 01:02:47,169
Yeah.
1177
01:02:47,969 --> 01:02:50,246
Thank you Tommy.
I know this was difficult for you.
1178
01:02:50,346 --> 01:02:53,066
No more questions, your honour.
1179
01:02:54,166 --> 01:02:56,951
Your witness, Mr. Aiken.
1180
01:03:01,010 --> 01:03:03,919
Uh... No questions, your honour.
1181
01:03:05,519 --> 01:03:07,570
You may stepdown young man.
1182
01:03:09,020 --> 01:03:10,761
We've been going for a while.
1183
01:03:10,861 --> 01:03:12,630
Let's take a ten minute recess.
1184
01:03:22,530 --> 01:03:24,430
I don't believe you did
anything to that boy.
1185
01:03:24,530 --> 01:03:25,550
Thanks.
1186
01:03:26,350 --> 01:03:28,880
I think you're the only one.
1187
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:33,851
Do I know you?
1188
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:41,591
So tell us what you saw, when you awoke,
1189
01:03:41,691 --> 01:03:44,311
to find Tommy and Dr. Erskine in your room.
1190
01:03:44,411 --> 01:03:46,421
Well... They were some kind of quiet.
1191
01:03:46,521 --> 01:03:48,506
So I couldn't hear much.
1192
01:03:48,606 --> 01:03:49,920
Glenn helped Tommy get undressed.
1193
01:03:50,020 --> 01:03:51,420
Did he take his clothes off or not?
1194
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:52,480
Objection your honour!
1195
01:03:52,580 --> 01:03:54,235
Asked and answered.
1196
01:03:55,035 --> 01:03:56,130
Not quite Mr. Aiken.
1197
01:03:58,535 --> 01:04:00,130
Answer Mr. Moultrie's question, young man.
1198
01:04:00,230 --> 01:04:03,405
Did the defendant take off Tommy's clothes?
1199
01:04:04,105 --> 01:04:05,380
Yes Ma'am.
1200
01:04:07,705 --> 01:04:08,980
Proceed Mr. Moultrie.
1201
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:11,040
Now you said you didn't hear much.
1202
01:04:11,140 --> 01:04:12,139
What did you hear?
1203
01:04:12,239 --> 01:04:14,416
They talked about Chris some, I think.
1204
01:04:14,916 --> 01:04:16,951
When I heard Glenn say something
about not wanting to tell anybody.
1205
01:04:17,051 --> 01:04:18,151
And it being a secret.
1206
01:04:18,351 --> 01:04:19,561
What being a secret?
1207
01:04:19,661 --> 01:04:22,630
I don't know. I couldn't hear
what they were talking about.
1208
01:04:22,830 --> 01:04:24,540
And what happened next?
1209
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:27,610
Well... Glenn got up to leave
and turn the lights out.
1210
01:04:27,710 --> 01:04:29,180
Tommy asked him to stay.
1211
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:31,811
Did Tommy say anything else to Dr. Erskine,
1212
01:04:31,980 --> 01:04:33,811
after he asked him to stay?
1213
01:04:34,411 --> 01:04:36,111
Yeah...
1214
01:04:36,211 --> 01:04:37,626
Well.. What?
1215
01:04:39,111 --> 01:04:42,026
He said:
'Do what you did to me last night.'
1216
01:04:42,126 --> 01:04:43,989
Then what happened?
1217
01:04:45,589 --> 01:04:48,921
Uuhhh. Well... it was pretty dark
so I couldn't see much.
1218
01:04:49,021 --> 01:04:51,661
I think that Glenn got in the bed
1219
01:04:51,761 --> 01:04:53,586
with Tommy, cause he said:'Scoot over'.
1220
01:04:53,686 --> 01:04:56,350
Then I heard Tommy say...
Uhhh...
1221
01:04:57,350 --> 01:04:58,741
What did Tommy say?
1222
01:04:59,241 --> 01:05:01,621
He said: 'That feels good',
or something like that.
1223
01:05:01,721 --> 01:05:05,935
Thank you, Curtis.
No more questions, your honour.
1224
01:05:06,035 --> 01:05:07,335
Your witness, Mr. Aiken.
1225
01:05:07,935 --> 01:05:09,100
Thank you, your honour.
1226
01:05:15,609 --> 01:05:16,618
Hi Curtis.
1227
01:05:16,809 --> 01:05:17,709
Hi.
1228
01:05:17,809 --> 01:05:20,718
I... only have a few questions.
Nothing too complicated. Okay?
1229
01:05:20,818 --> 01:05:21,819
Okay.
1230
01:05:22,030 --> 01:05:25,176
Now. You told Mr. Moultrie
that it was pretty dark in the room.
1231
01:05:25,576 --> 01:05:27,231
Was there any light at all?
1232
01:05:28,031 --> 01:05:30,141
A little bit, coming from the hall.
1233
01:05:31,041 --> 01:05:32,619
The hall outside the room?
1234
01:05:33,041 --> 01:05:33,519
Yes sir.
1235
01:05:33,619 --> 01:05:36,430
So the door to your room was open
while Glenn was there?
1236
01:05:36,530 --> 01:05:37,539
Yes sir.
1237
01:05:38,030 --> 01:05:40,039
Hmm... I see.
1238
01:05:40,739 --> 01:05:42,970
Let me ask you something, Curtis.
1239
01:05:43,070 --> 01:05:44,140
Do you like backrubs?
1240
01:05:45,270 --> 01:05:46,271
I guess.
1241
01:05:47,270 --> 01:05:48,940
A backrub feels good, doesn't it?
1242
01:05:49,765 --> 01:05:50,920
Yeah. I guess.
1243
01:05:51,020 --> 01:05:52,900
And when Tommy said: 'It felt good'.
1244
01:05:53,020 --> 01:05:56,100
You couldn't see what Glenn
was doing with him, could you?
1245
01:05:56,900 --> 01:05:57,790
No.
1246
01:05:57,890 --> 01:05:59,840
So... As far as you know,
1247
01:05:59,990 --> 01:06:02,440
he could have just been
rubbing Tommy's back.
1248
01:06:02,540 --> 01:06:03,809
Is that right?
1249
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:06,021
I don't know. I couldn't see anything.
1250
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:14,360
So... Are we going to lunch?
1251
01:06:14,460 --> 01:06:15,490
Oh well.
1252
01:06:15,590 --> 01:06:18,585
The Backstreet cafe is
not too far from here.
1253
01:06:18,685 --> 01:06:20,600
Sounds good.
Let's go.
1254
01:06:37,679 --> 01:06:38,680
Dr. Peck.
1255
01:06:39,569 --> 01:06:42,516
You performed the physical
examination on Tommy Jackson
1256
01:06:42,616 --> 01:06:44,516
the morning of September nineteen. Correct?
1257
01:06:44,616 --> 01:06:45,581
Yes. That's correct.
1258
01:06:45,681 --> 01:06:48,522
And what were the results
of your examination?
1259
01:06:55,731 --> 01:07:01,239
No bruises or signs of physical trauma
in the genital area.
1260
01:07:01,339 --> 01:07:05,350
Some evidence of dried
semen in the pubic hair.
1261
01:07:06,150 --> 01:07:08,150
The victim had a relaxed anal tone.
1262
01:07:08,250 --> 01:07:12,170
Slight dilation, with no faeces
present in the rectum.
1263
01:07:12,270 --> 01:07:15,940
Some tearing around old scar tissue.
1264
01:07:17,010 --> 01:07:19,711
Victim's underpants were stained with blood
1265
01:07:21,211 --> 01:07:23,605
and fecal matter in the seat.
1266
01:07:23,805 --> 01:07:25,539
Semen stains evident in the front.
1267
01:07:27,805 --> 01:07:28,939
That's about it.
1268
01:07:30,339 --> 01:07:32,219
What is your diagnosis?
1269
01:07:32,319 --> 01:07:34,489
Based upon your examination, Dr. Peck?
1270
01:07:34,589 --> 01:07:37,139
That the victim had been penetrated anally.
1271
01:07:37,739 --> 01:07:38,839
Thank You Dr. Peck.
1272
01:07:38,939 --> 01:07:40,131
Nothing further, your honour.
1273
01:07:40,231 --> 01:07:42,100
Mr. Aikin. You may cross.
1274
01:07:49,348 --> 01:07:50,248
Dr. Peck.
1275
01:07:50,348 --> 01:07:53,609
You can't tell us what the boy
was penetrated with, can you?
1276
01:07:53,811 --> 01:07:54,880
No.
1277
01:07:55,711 --> 01:07:58,180
Did you find any semen in his rectum?
1278
01:07:58,280 --> 01:07:59,315
No.
1279
01:08:01,379 --> 01:08:02,521
Dr. Peck.
1280
01:08:02,679 --> 01:08:04,521
At the time of the examination.
1281
01:08:04,621 --> 01:08:07,180
Were you aware of the
timeframe of the alleged abuse?
1282
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:09,575
No. I was not.
1283
01:08:09,675 --> 01:08:12,499
In fact, you are not
aware of the timeframe,
1284
01:08:12,599 --> 01:08:14,499
until you and I met three days ago
to discuss your testimony.
1285
01:08:14,599 --> 01:08:16,510
Isn't that correct?
1286
01:08:16,610 --> 01:08:18,120
It's correct.
1287
01:08:18,220 --> 01:08:20,901
All right, doctor.
1288
01:08:21,001 --> 01:08:24,797
What time on the morning of December
19th did you examine Tommy Jackson?
1289
01:08:24,897 --> 01:08:26,866
A little after seven.
1290
01:08:26,966 --> 01:08:30,316
And based on your findings,
and in your expert opinion.
1291
01:08:31,616 --> 01:08:33,690
How much time had elapsed
1292
01:08:33,790 --> 01:08:35,997
from the time of the incident
until you examined the boy?
1293
01:08:36,097 --> 01:08:38,300
One, maybe two hours at the most.
1294
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:43,115
And what leads you to
this conclusion, doctor?
1295
01:08:43,215 --> 01:08:46,885
That the boys' anus was still
slightly dilated when I examined him.
1296
01:08:47,581 --> 01:08:51,239
Mmmm.. Based on your expert opinion,
the incident occurred sometime between
1297
01:08:51,339 --> 01:08:53,869
five and six o'clock that morning.
Is that correct?
1298
01:08:54,239 --> 01:08:55,469
Yes.
In my opinion.
1299
01:08:57,571 --> 01:09:00,980
And... If the incident had occurred between
eleven and twelve the previous night.
1300
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:04,565
Would the boy's anus has still been
dilated at seven the next morning?
1301
01:09:05,165 --> 01:09:06,248
No.
1302
01:09:06,648 --> 01:09:09,800
Uh...
So what you're saying Dr. Peck is
1303
01:09:09,900 --> 01:09:12,005
that Tommy Jackson was penetrated anally,
1304
01:09:12,105 --> 01:09:13,581
but it did not happen in the time frame
1305
01:09:13,681 --> 01:09:16,096
That Dr. Erskine was in the boys room.
1306
01:09:16,196 --> 01:09:17,541
Is that correct?
1307
01:09:17,696 --> 01:09:18,941
Yes.
1308
01:09:19,641 --> 01:09:21,882
Thank you doctor.
You've been very helpful.
1309
01:09:23,918 --> 01:09:26,450
Would you like to redirect, Mr. Moultrie?
1310
01:09:26,550 --> 01:09:28,208
Yes, your honour.
1311
01:09:28,550 --> 01:09:29,908
Dr. Peck.
1312
01:09:30,708 --> 01:09:32,755
Even if your findings show that the boy
1313
01:09:33,155 --> 01:09:34,840
was penetrated earlier that morning.
1314
01:09:34,940 --> 01:09:36,670
Does that eliminate the possibility
1315
01:09:36,770 --> 01:09:38,771
that he was penetrated the night before?
1316
01:09:39,170 --> 01:09:40,190
No. it does not.
1317
01:09:40,290 --> 01:09:43,000
Thank You, Dr. Peck.
No further questions your honour.
1318
01:09:43,402 --> 01:09:45,320
You may step down doctor.
1319
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:48,785
We're going to take a brief recess.
1320
01:09:50,285 --> 01:09:51,748
Mr. Carter.
1321
01:09:51,848 --> 01:09:54,140
Let's go back over the testimony
and evidence
1322
01:09:54,740 --> 01:09:57,065
that you and Mr. Moultrie
have just presented.
1323
01:09:57,365 --> 01:09:58,910
I just want to be sure that I understand.
1324
01:09:59,010 --> 01:10:00,410
Okay.
1325
01:10:00,810 --> 01:10:03,475
These child pornography magazines you
found in my clients home.
1326
01:10:03,575 --> 01:10:06,019
Where exactly did you find them?
1327
01:10:06,919 --> 01:10:09,085
We found them in a box in the Attic.
1328
01:10:12,985 --> 01:10:15,149
Was it this box?
1329
01:10:16,085 --> 01:10:18,306
No. I believe the box we found them in
1330
01:10:18,406 --> 01:10:21,039
had to be thrown away.
1331
01:10:23,339 --> 01:10:25,150
And why is that?
1332
01:10:25,350 --> 01:10:27,520
Because the bottom fell out of it.
1333
01:10:27,650 --> 01:10:30,520
The bottom fell out of it?
Why?
1334
01:10:31,220 --> 01:10:32,789
It was old. The tape had dry rotten.
1335
01:10:32,889 --> 01:10:34,389
I see.
1336
01:10:34,489 --> 01:10:35,989
So the box was sealed with tape?
1337
01:10:36,089 --> 01:10:37,200
Yeah.
1338
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:40,311
And was there any writing on the box?
1339
01:10:40,411 --> 01:10:41,412
Yes.
1340
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:44,011
And what was it?
1341
01:10:48,499 --> 01:10:51,450
The box had written in black ink:
1342
01:10:51,550 --> 01:10:56,679
'Research materials for
dissertation 1982 to 84'.
1343
01:10:56,779 --> 01:10:59,349
So...
Given what was written on the box.
1344
01:10:59,449 --> 01:11:02,126
And the nature of my clients research.
1345
01:11:02,226 --> 01:11:05,907
Did you not conclude that he had
these materials for a legitimate reason?
1346
01:11:06,881 --> 01:11:07,912
Mr. Aiken.
1347
01:11:08,012 --> 01:11:10,716
Under the law,
there is no legitimate reason
1348
01:11:10,816 --> 01:11:12,816
for the possession of child pornography.
1349
01:11:12,916 --> 01:11:13,756
Really?
1350
01:11:13,856 --> 01:11:16,671
Huh... Who is in possession of
that child pornography now?
1351
01:11:16,771 --> 01:11:18,741
Jefferson County Sheriff's Department.
1352
01:11:18,841 --> 01:11:21,201
Is the Sheriff's Department in violation
of the law,
1353
01:11:21,301 --> 01:11:23,391
by possessing child pornography?
1354
01:11:24,291 --> 01:11:25,606
No.
1355
01:11:25,706 --> 01:11:27,291
Why is that?
1356
01:11:27,391 --> 01:11:29,061
Because evidence in a criminal case.
1357
01:11:29,161 --> 01:11:31,871
So your previous statement that
there is no legitimate reason
1358
01:11:31,971 --> 01:11:36,700
under the law for the possession of
child pornography is... not correct, is it?
1359
01:11:39,826 --> 01:11:42,750
Yeah. I suppose.
1360
01:11:42,850 --> 01:11:44,401
Mr. Carter.
1361
01:11:44,501 --> 01:11:47,050
Did you notice the numbers,
printed on the inside back cover
1362
01:11:47,150 --> 01:11:49,415
of each of the magazines
which contained explicit sex?
1363
01:11:49,515 --> 01:11:50,750
Yes.
1364
01:11:51,150 --> 01:11:53,546
Did you wonder what those were?
1365
01:11:54,346 --> 01:11:56,696
I assumed I knew what they were Mr. Aiken.
1366
01:11:57,196 --> 01:12:00,440
Most pedophiles,
who collect child pornography,
1367
01:12:00,540 --> 01:12:03,481
have elaborate cataloging
systems to sort their collection.
1368
01:12:04,281 --> 01:12:05,876
I see.
1369
01:12:06,076 --> 01:12:07,881
Wouldn't it be fair to say that,
1370
01:12:07,981 --> 01:12:10,761
today in this age
of computers and the internet,
1371
01:12:10,861 --> 01:12:13,500
that most pedophiles trade
and store such pictures
1372
01:12:14,300 --> 01:12:16,071
electronically on their computers?
1373
01:12:16,500 --> 01:12:17,471
Yes.
1374
01:12:17,571 --> 01:12:20,916
You testify and direct that you
seized Dr. Erskine's computer.
1375
01:12:21,616 --> 01:12:23,171
Did you find any pornographic images,
1376
01:12:23,271 --> 01:12:25,141
stored on his computer?
1377
01:12:25,541 --> 01:12:26,610
No.
1378
01:12:26,810 --> 01:12:28,810
But as I said.
1379
01:12:28,910 --> 01:12:33,221
Yet dozens of 'so-called boy-love
websites ' bookmarked in his web browser.
1380
01:12:33,651 --> 01:12:37,181
Did any of those sites contain
illegal images of children?
1381
01:12:37,281 --> 01:12:38,356
No.
1382
01:12:39,756 --> 01:12:42,721
So... once again.
Based on Dr. Erskine's research interest.
1383
01:12:43,321 --> 01:12:45,820
The facts...
the fact that he visits such websites
1384
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:48,416
doesn't mean he is a pedophile
now, does it?
1385
01:12:49,816 --> 01:12:52,166
If he was not accused of molesting a
boy, Mr. Aiken.
1386
01:12:52,266 --> 01:12:54,651
I might agree with you.
1387
01:12:54,751 --> 01:12:56,967
Mmm. And speaking of Dr. Erskine
research interest.
1388
01:12:57,067 --> 01:12:59,671
You and Mr. Moultrie went to great lengths
1389
01:12:59,771 --> 01:13:02,601
to point out that Dr. Erskine
has publish articles and books,
1390
01:13:02,701 --> 01:13:04,690
in which he does not condemn out of hand
1391
01:13:04,790 --> 01:13:07,030
the idea of a consensual
sexual relationship
1392
01:13:07,130 --> 01:13:11,110
between a man and a boy, being non abusive.
1393
01:13:11,210 --> 01:13:14,680
In all of Dr. Erskine's writings...
1394
01:13:14,780 --> 01:13:19,920
Did you find anything in which he
advocates sex between adults and children?
1395
01:13:22,020 --> 01:13:23,540
No.
1396
01:13:24,140 --> 01:13:25,460
But I recall.
1397
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:28,730
And...
what of Dr. Erskine's Ph.D. dissertation?
1398
01:13:29,530 --> 01:13:32,830
You... You seized a copy of it when
you searched his home. Correct?
1399
01:13:32,930 --> 01:13:34,159
Yeah.
1400
01:13:34,259 --> 01:13:35,760
Did you read it?
1401
01:13:35,958 --> 01:13:37,515
I skimmed it.
1402
01:13:43,315 --> 01:13:45,515
Permission to approach the
witness, your honour.
1403
01:13:45,615 --> 01:13:46,999
Go ahead.
1404
01:13:51,099 --> 01:13:54,168
Please read the titlepage, Mr. Carter.
1405
01:13:57,268 --> 01:14:00,354
Pederasty: An investigation
into the phenomenon,
1406
01:14:00,454 --> 01:14:05,494
focusing on the psychosexual aspects of
consenting boys.
1407
01:14:07,894 --> 01:14:11,020
By Glenn Michael Erskine, Ph. MS.
1408
01:14:13,820 --> 01:14:16,041
The dissertation is
submitted to the Faculty of
1409
01:14:16,141 --> 01:14:18,218
psychology at the
University of Pennsylvania.
1410
01:14:18,318 --> 01:14:21,726
In partial fulfillment of the
requirements for the degree
1411
01:14:21,826 --> 01:14:25,349
of Doctor of Philosophy. May 25, 1984.'
1412
01:14:26,749 --> 01:14:30,814
Mmm. Please turn to the
Appendix in the back, page 516.
1413
01:14:37,214 --> 01:14:39,468
Are you looking at page 516, Mr. Carter?
1414
01:14:40,268 --> 01:14:41,369
Yeah.
1415
01:14:42,669 --> 01:14:44,669
And what is on page 516?
1416
01:14:45,718 --> 01:14:49,649
It uhh.. It appears to be a letter from the
1417
01:14:51,449 --> 01:14:53,584
Chief of Police for the
City of Philadelphia.
1418
01:14:53,684 --> 01:14:57,348
Dated..uuhh.. April 4th, 1983.
1419
01:14:59,548 --> 01:15:01,690
You've not read this letter
before, have you?
1420
01:15:01,790 --> 01:15:02,791
Uuhh. No.
1421
01:15:04,790 --> 01:15:07,449
Please summarize its contents for us
now, Mr. Carter.
1422
01:15:08,449 --> 01:15:11,438
It basically says that doctors
1423
01:15:11,538 --> 01:15:14,089
can notify the Philadelphia
Police Department
1424
01:15:14,189 --> 01:15:19,140
of the nature of his investigation into,
1425
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:24,266
say... sexual relationships
between men and boys,
1426
01:15:24,366 --> 01:15:26,491
including void prostitution.
1427
01:15:31,860 --> 01:15:36,300
The letter states that the doctor is
going to inform the police department, that
1428
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:38,691
in the course course of his research,
1429
01:15:39,691 --> 01:15:42,496
he had accumulated
explicit child pornography
1430
01:15:43,096 --> 01:15:46,070
and that the materials
were registered in March
1431
01:15:46,170 --> 01:15:47,985
by the police department.
1432
01:15:50,085 --> 01:15:52,595
And a list of registered
materials is attached,
1433
01:15:53,495 --> 01:15:55,810
and on record with the
City of Philadelphia.
1434
01:16:01,510 --> 01:16:03,970
The letter is signed
by the Chief of Police.
1435
01:16:06,070 --> 01:16:07,829
Thank you, Mr. Carter.
1436
01:16:07,929 --> 01:16:09,979
Oh... no more questions, your honour.
1437
01:16:12,079 --> 01:16:14,710
Tell us a little bit about
yourself, Mr. Tyne.
1438
01:16:14,810 --> 01:16:16,910
I'm 39 years old.
1439
01:16:17,010 --> 01:16:19,110
I'm gay,
1440
01:16:19,210 --> 01:16:21,599
and... I'm HIV-positive.
1441
01:16:22,399 --> 01:16:24,479
And where do you live?
1442
01:16:25,079 --> 01:16:27,995
In Providence Rhode Island.
1443
01:16:28,095 --> 01:16:29,676
Tell us.
How you know the defendant?
1444
01:16:29,776 --> 01:16:33,471
Glenn Erskine was my professor at Penn,
seventeen years ago.
1445
01:16:33,571 --> 01:16:35,380
I was his research assistant.
1446
01:16:36,480 --> 01:16:38,681
I was in the clinical master's program.
1447
01:16:39,181 --> 01:16:41,591
Glenn already had a clinical doctorate.
1448
01:16:41,691 --> 01:16:43,520
And he was working on his Ph.D.
1449
01:16:43,620 --> 01:16:45,551
And that's what I was helping him on.
1450
01:16:45,651 --> 01:16:47,021
And what information do you have
1451
01:16:47,121 --> 01:16:49,030
as pertinent to this case?
1452
01:16:49,230 --> 01:16:50,990
In the course of our research
1453
01:16:51,090 --> 01:16:53,501
I witnessed Glenn having sex with boys.
1454
01:16:53,601 --> 01:16:55,235
That's a lie.
1455
01:16:55,335 --> 01:16:57,070
Quiet.
Dr. Erskine sit down.
1456
01:17:00,279 --> 01:17:02,319
Please continue, Mr. Tyne.
1457
01:17:03,519 --> 01:17:06,170
We were doing research on boy prostitution.
1458
01:17:06,970 --> 01:17:09,509
Glenn would go down to Center City,
1459
01:17:09,609 --> 01:17:13,979
and bring boys back to his
apartment to... interview them.
1460
01:17:14,079 --> 01:17:16,358
We even went to New York.
1461
01:17:17,258 --> 01:17:19,650
One morning, we hooked up with some kid.
1462
01:17:20,350 --> 01:17:22,629
He was around eleven or twelve.
1463
01:17:22,729 --> 01:17:29,029
On 42nd Street, he propositioned us, and
Glenn asked him if he had had breakfast.
1464
01:17:29,129 --> 01:17:31,558
So we went in some little diner and ate.
1465
01:17:31,958 --> 01:17:34,868
And what else happened at that diner?
1466
01:17:37,368 --> 01:17:40,049
Glenn and I had sex with
the kid in the bathroom.
1467
01:17:41,649 --> 01:17:43,488
Continue Mr. Tyne.
1468
01:17:43,688 --> 01:17:45,580
What else happened?
1469
01:17:46,180 --> 01:17:48,525
The kid spent the night in
Glenn's hotel room that night.
1470
01:17:48,625 --> 01:17:50,340
Thank you, Mr. Tyne.
1471
01:17:50,725 --> 01:17:51,926
Your witness.
1472
01:18:02,980 --> 01:18:06,069
Mr. Tyne. You stated that you were
in the clinical master's program
1473
01:18:06,169 --> 01:18:09,281
at the University of Pennsylvania.
1474
01:18:09,381 --> 01:18:11,591
Do you work as a therapist now?
1475
01:18:12,591 --> 01:18:13,746
No.
1476
01:18:13,891 --> 01:18:15,346
Have you ever worked as a therapist?
1477
01:18:15,446 --> 01:18:16,541
No.
1478
01:18:19,041 --> 01:18:21,960
You never completed your degree,
did you, Mr. Tyne?
1479
01:18:22,060 --> 01:18:23,061
No.
1480
01:18:24,060 --> 01:18:25,721
Why is that?
1481
01:18:27,619 --> 01:18:30,375
You were dismissed from the program,
isn't that correct?
1482
01:18:31,475 --> 01:18:32,941
The truth is Mr. Tyne.
1483
01:18:33,041 --> 01:18:35,241
You did have sex with that boy in New York.
1484
01:18:35,941 --> 01:18:37,881
You paid him ten dollars to allow you
1485
01:18:37,981 --> 01:18:40,480
to perform oral sex on him
in the public restroom.
1486
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:43,111
And Dr. Erskine caught
you and he reported you
1487
01:18:43,335 --> 01:18:45,451
to the Disciplinary
Committee at the school.
1488
01:18:45,551 --> 01:18:47,725
And you were kicked out.
Correct?
1489
01:18:48,625 --> 01:18:50,075
Mr. Tyme.
1490
01:18:50,175 --> 01:18:52,636
I'm prepared to introduce into evidence a
transcript of that hearing,
1491
01:18:52,736 --> 01:18:54,701
as well as a copy of
the committee's report.
1492
01:18:54,801 --> 01:18:56,180
Do you want me to do that?
1493
01:18:56,280 --> 01:19:00,759
All right.
I... Glenn did report me.
1494
01:19:02,159 --> 01:19:04,930
But... he had sex with the kid too.
1495
01:19:05,030 --> 01:19:06,930
And I told them that.
1496
01:19:07,030 --> 01:19:08,930
Yes... you did.
1497
01:19:09,430 --> 01:19:13,270
And they obviously found you as
credible as everyone here does today.
1498
01:19:14,570 --> 01:19:16,130
No more questions, your honour.
1499
01:19:17,230 --> 01:19:18,410
The witness is excused.
1500
01:19:19,410 --> 01:19:21,870
Mr. Moultrie.
Do you have any more witnesses?
1501
01:19:22,070 --> 01:19:24,071
No, your honour.
The state rests.
1502
01:19:24,771 --> 01:19:27,011
We're going to take a thirty minute recess,
1503
01:19:27,211 --> 01:19:29,620
and then the defense can
call its first witness.
1504
01:19:32,949 --> 01:19:35,835
I'm gonna stretch my legs,
get a glass of water.
1505
01:19:36,025 --> 01:19:38,656
Don't go far.
You have to be here in thirty minutes.
1506
01:19:39,356 --> 01:19:40,910
Don't remind me.
1507
01:20:03,270 --> 01:20:04,799
Can I help you?
1508
01:20:05,399 --> 01:20:07,196
My name is David Fayne, Mr.Aiken.
1509
01:20:07,296 --> 01:20:10,517
I've got something very important
to tell you about your client.
1510
01:20:15,900 --> 01:20:19,496
You wish to call this man as a rebuttal
witness to Mr. Tyne's testimony?
1511
01:20:20,096 --> 01:20:21,946
Yes, your honour.
1512
01:20:22,046 --> 01:20:24,331
You did a pretty good job of
discrediting that witness.
1513
01:20:24,431 --> 01:20:26,171
Is the rebuttal necessary?
1514
01:20:26,271 --> 01:20:27,970
We believe it is, your honour.
1515
01:20:28,070 --> 01:20:29,670
Mr. Moultrie...
1516
01:20:30,670 --> 01:20:32,330
No objections, your honour.
1517
01:20:35,530 --> 01:20:37,871
Tell us how you know the
defendant, Mr. Fayne.
1518
01:20:38,771 --> 01:20:40,801
I met him once when I was a boy.
1519
01:20:40,901 --> 01:20:42,156
And where was that?
1520
01:20:42,301 --> 01:20:44,056
New York City, in 1983.
1521
01:20:44,156 --> 01:20:46,990
You are the boy whom the
previous defendant spoke off?
1522
01:20:47,090 --> 01:20:50,476
Yes. I am, Mr. Aiken.
Mmm...
1523
01:20:51,876 --> 01:20:55,850
In December of 1983, I was
a twelve year old boy prostitute,
1524
01:20:55,950 --> 01:20:58,561
living on the streets of New York.
1525
01:20:58,661 --> 01:21:00,200
And how old are you now?
1526
01:21:00,661 --> 01:21:01,500
Twenty-nine.
1527
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:04,380
Have you seen or had
contact with Dr. Erskine
1528
01:21:04,480 --> 01:21:06,640
since you met him that one time in 1983?
1529
01:21:06,740 --> 01:21:08,191
No, I have not.
1530
01:21:09,540 --> 01:21:10,891
Why now, Mr. Fayne?
1531
01:21:11,491 --> 01:21:14,621
Because... When I heard about the case,
I couldn't believe it.
1532
01:21:15,521 --> 01:21:17,096
I... I couldn't believe that the man,
1533
01:21:17,196 --> 01:21:21,540
who saved me almost twenty years
ago, was capable of abusing a boy.
1534
01:21:24,169 --> 01:21:26,789
I... Uuhh... I just came
to watch the trial, really,
1535
01:21:27,689 --> 01:21:29,825
But after what William Tyne said.
1536
01:21:29,925 --> 01:21:31,910
I knew I couldn't keep silence.
1537
01:21:32,710 --> 01:21:34,828
You're not afraid that
testifying to your
1538
01:21:34,928 --> 01:21:37,615
activities back then will ruin you
now, Mr. Fayne?
1539
01:21:37,715 --> 01:21:39,581
It doesn't matter.
1540
01:21:39,681 --> 01:21:41,366
All I have,
1541
01:21:41,481 --> 01:21:44,466
all I am today, I owe to one man.
1542
01:21:44,566 --> 01:21:47,111
And he's sitting right there.
1543
01:21:47,211 --> 01:21:51,691
And what do you want to tell
us about Mr. Tyne's testimony?
1544
01:21:51,791 --> 01:21:53,970
He was only half true, Mr. Aiken.
1545
01:21:55,470 --> 01:21:59,586
I did have sex with him in
the restroom that morning.
1546
01:21:59,686 --> 01:22:01,586
And Glenn did walk in on us.
1547
01:22:02,286 --> 01:22:06,041
But nothing happened between me and Glenn.
1548
01:22:06,141 --> 01:22:10,080
And did you go to Dr. Erskine' hotel
room, as Mr. Tyne said?
1549
01:22:10,480 --> 01:22:12,660
Yes.
But nothing happened.
1550
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:15,209
We talked a lot.
1551
01:22:15,309 --> 01:22:18,919
I told Glenn about how I
wander upon the streets.
1552
01:22:19,119 --> 01:22:23,880
It was.. I don't know how to
1553
01:22:23,980 --> 01:22:26,599
explain it to you so you can understand.
1554
01:22:26,699 --> 01:22:28,048
But...
1555
01:22:28,248 --> 01:22:30,929
No adult had ever listened to me before.
1556
01:22:31,829 --> 01:22:33,729
Glenn listened.
1557
01:22:33,829 --> 01:22:36,070
I mean, he was really interested in me,
1558
01:22:36,170 --> 01:22:38,979
and what I thought about things.
1559
01:22:39,079 --> 01:22:43,841
And how I felt about things.
1560
01:22:43,950 --> 01:22:46,909
Anyway...
We talked for a long time.
1561
01:22:48,709 --> 01:22:52,688
I was laying on the bed
and I fell asleep.
1562
01:22:52,788 --> 01:22:55,709
When I woke up, Glenn was gone.
1563
01:22:56,209 --> 01:23:01,941
He left a note,
saying he'll be back in a couple of hours.
1564
01:23:02,041 --> 01:23:05,471
I watched some TV and I took a shower.
1565
01:23:07,729 --> 01:23:09,676
I have just gotten out of the shower,
1566
01:23:09,776 --> 01:23:12,616
when Mr. Tyne came to the door.
1567
01:23:12,716 --> 01:23:14,866
He tried to pay me to have
sex with him again.
1568
01:23:14,966 --> 01:23:17,701
But I refused and I told
him I start yelling,
1569
01:23:17,801 --> 01:23:19,671
if he didn't leave me alone.
1570
01:23:20,471 --> 01:23:23,361
And what happened when Dr. Erskine
returned to the room?
1571
01:23:26,261 --> 01:23:28,449
He had Santa Claus with him.
1572
01:23:29,549 --> 01:23:31,919
And a whole bunch of presents.
1573
01:23:32,419 --> 01:23:33,858
Santa Claus?
1574
01:23:34,019 --> 01:23:34,958
Yes.
1575
01:23:35,058 --> 01:23:39,639
It was like the week before Christmas.
1576
01:23:43,350 --> 01:23:49,029
The Santa Claus was the Salvation Army
guy from out in front of the hotel.
1577
01:23:49,129 --> 01:23:51,170
I had seen him there earlier.
1578
01:23:52,370 --> 01:23:55,239
And what kind of presence
did Doctor Erskine had for you?
1579
01:23:55,739 --> 01:23:56,939
Oh..
1580
01:23:57,039 --> 01:23:58,439
Some new clothes.
1581
01:23:58,539 --> 01:24:00,040
A coat.
1582
01:24:00,539 --> 01:24:02,840
A radio.
1583
01:24:03,010 --> 01:24:04,229
But...
1584
01:24:14,210 --> 01:24:16,629
This was the most important gift.
1585
01:24:17,710 --> 01:24:19,129
A key?
1586
01:24:19,229 --> 01:24:21,008
Yes.
1587
01:24:21,108 --> 01:24:24,319
Glenn handed me this and told
me it was the key to my future.
1588
01:24:24,419 --> 01:24:28,968
He said, that if I wanted
to leave the streets,
1589
01:24:29,068 --> 01:24:31,140
this key would let me do it.
1590
01:24:34,740 --> 01:24:36,398
What's funny?
1591
01:24:38,498 --> 01:24:42,938
Nothing... it's just that I asked
him if this was a magic key.
1592
01:24:43,038 --> 01:24:47,919
He said 'no'.
This is the key to room number nine
1593
01:24:48,019 --> 01:24:51,926
in the Catholic home for boys in Manhattan.
1594
01:24:52,026 --> 01:24:55,376
He had already spoken to
Father Lambert about me.
1595
01:24:55,476 --> 01:24:58,680
And he said I was welcome.
1596
01:25:01,890 --> 01:25:04,549
Glenn said that it would mean
going back to school again.
1597
01:25:04,649 --> 01:25:07,634
And working hard, to catch
up with the other kids.
1598
01:25:07,734 --> 01:25:10,520
But he knew, I could do it, if I wanted to.
1599
01:25:10,620 --> 01:25:14,100
That I had never have to
sell myself to men again.
1600
01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:17,470
The key to my future was in my
hands, he said.
1601
01:25:18,670 --> 01:25:20,911
Did you spend the night with Dr. Erskine?
1602
01:25:21,111 --> 01:25:22,112
Yes.
1603
01:25:22,311 --> 01:25:24,711
The room had two beds?
1604
01:25:24,811 --> 01:25:25,812
Yes.
1605
01:25:26,681 --> 01:25:28,549
But I have to tell you.
1606
01:25:29,049 --> 01:25:31,029
I slept in the bed with Glenn.
1607
01:25:32,529 --> 01:25:34,795
I... I just wanted to be close to him.
1608
01:25:35,895 --> 01:25:36,960
But you did not have sex?
1609
01:25:37,060 --> 01:25:38,260
No.
1610
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:40,508
What happened the next morning?
1611
01:25:41,208 --> 01:25:44,739
After breakfast,
he took me to the boy's home.
1612
01:25:46,339 --> 01:25:51,410
And from that day on,
I never walked the streets again.
1613
01:25:51,510 --> 01:25:54,390
And you never saw Dr. Erskine
again, did you?
1614
01:25:56,149 --> 01:25:57,550
No.
1615
01:25:59,180 --> 01:26:02,779
He gave me his business
card, and told me that,
1616
01:26:02,879 --> 01:26:05,651
if I wrote to him, he'll write me back.
1617
01:26:06,190 --> 01:26:08,426
But I never did.
1618
01:26:09,726 --> 01:26:11,716
But I never forgot about you, Glenn.
1619
01:26:12,126 --> 01:26:14,216
And I never stopped loving you.
1620
01:26:14,316 --> 01:26:15,594
Likewise.
1621
01:26:16,516 --> 01:26:18,694
You have a family now, David?
1622
01:26:18,794 --> 01:26:20,470
Yes.
1623
01:26:20,570 --> 01:26:23,570
I've been married for almost ten years now.
1624
01:26:24,670 --> 01:26:26,171
Any children?
1625
01:26:26,380 --> 01:26:27,529
Two.
1626
01:26:29,780 --> 01:26:31,229
My... son is six,
1627
01:26:32,380 --> 01:26:34,229
and my daughter is four and a half.
1628
01:26:34,729 --> 01:26:37,136
And what are their names, Mr. Fayne?
1629
01:26:37,236 --> 01:26:41,151
My little girl's name is Christine.
1630
01:26:41,251 --> 01:26:44,110
And my son... is named Glenn.
1631
01:26:44,410 --> 01:26:47,371
Glenn Michael Fayne.
1632
01:26:52,350 --> 01:26:54,469
Thank you for testifying David.
1633
01:26:56,169 --> 01:26:58,159
I have nothing further, your honour.
1634
01:27:05,550 --> 01:27:07,440
No questions, your honour.
1635
01:27:10,639 --> 01:27:13,120
Mr. Fayne, you are excused.
And thank you.
1636
01:27:34,089 --> 01:27:37,170
Mr. Aiken. You may call your next witness.
1637
01:27:37,570 --> 01:27:40,239
Your honour. The defense
calls Glenn Michael Erskine.
1638
01:27:40,839 --> 01:27:42,540
I hope this works.
1639
01:27:42,939 --> 01:27:44,040
It will.
1640
01:27:53,959 --> 01:27:56,200
Please raise your right hand.
1641
01:27:58,100 --> 01:28:01,061
Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you are about to give
1642
01:28:01,161 --> 01:28:04,191
is the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth?
1643
01:28:04,291 --> 01:28:05,760
I do.
1644
01:28:06,769 --> 01:28:08,470
Proceed Mr. Aiken.
1645
01:28:28,239 --> 01:28:32,116
Dr. Erskine.
Did you sexually molest Tommy Jackson?
1646
01:28:32,339 --> 01:28:32,988
No.
1647
01:28:33,088 --> 01:28:35,064
Thank you.
Nothing further, your honour.
1648
01:28:39,038 --> 01:28:40,039
Okay.
1649
01:28:41,838 --> 01:28:43,839
Your witness Mr. Moultrie.
1650
01:28:43,939 --> 01:28:46,000
Your honour. May we approach?
1651
01:28:55,719 --> 01:28:58,251
Your honour. It is obvious what Mr. Aikin
is attempting to do.
1652
01:28:58,351 --> 01:29:02,260
He is trying to limit my cross, by only
asking that one question.
1653
01:29:02,360 --> 01:29:05,881
Your honour. Sorry if the D.A.
does not like my question.
1654
01:29:06,216 --> 01:29:08,260
He got Dr. Erskine's writings into evidence
1655
01:29:08,360 --> 01:29:09,690
through his own witness.
1656
01:29:09,790 --> 01:29:12,650
I'm not about to let him use my client
to do it all over again.
1657
01:29:12,750 --> 01:29:14,060
All right. Mr. Aiken.
1658
01:29:15,060 --> 01:29:16,826
Interesting move, I have to admit.
1659
01:29:17,026 --> 01:29:18,831
Counselor. You know the rule.
1660
01:29:18,931 --> 01:29:23,461
The scope of your cross is limited to
what Dr. Erskine testified to on direct.
1661
01:29:23,561 --> 01:29:24,630
But your honour!
1662
01:29:24,730 --> 01:29:27,782
I'm sorry Mr. Moultrie.
He got you on this one.
1663
01:29:28,782 --> 01:29:30,191
A setback.
1664
01:29:41,140 --> 01:29:43,679
Dr. Erskine.
Let's talk about Tommy Jackson.
1665
01:29:43,779 --> 01:29:46,260
What would you like to know, Mr. Moultrie?
1666
01:29:46,360 --> 01:29:48,210
You expect us to believe,
1667
01:29:48,710 --> 01:29:51,501
that everything this boy has
told us that you did to him,
1668
01:29:51,601 --> 01:29:55,056
that he has recounted in such
detail, is utter fabrication?
1669
01:29:55,370 --> 01:29:57,696
That he just made it all up?
1670
01:29:58,096 --> 01:29:58,796
No.
1671
01:29:58,896 --> 01:30:00,301
He didn't make it all up.
1672
01:30:00,401 --> 01:30:01,402
Oohh...
1673
01:30:02,301 --> 01:30:05,386
So then you admit that you did do some
of the things he said you did to him?
1674
01:30:05,486 --> 01:30:06,591
Yes.
1675
01:30:08,191 --> 01:30:11,666
So you admit that you sexually
molested Tommy Jackson?
1676
01:30:11,766 --> 01:30:13,945
I admit no such thing.
1677
01:30:14,145 --> 01:30:17,031
I just said that he didn't
make it all up.
1678
01:30:17,131 --> 01:30:19,496
I did do one thing that he said I did.
1679
01:30:19,596 --> 01:30:20,856
And what was that?
1680
01:30:22,296 --> 01:30:24,096
That night in the room.
1681
01:30:24,196 --> 01:30:26,496
I kissed him.
1682
01:30:26,596 --> 01:30:29,656
I kissed him on the forehead,
before I left the room.
1683
01:30:30,545 --> 01:30:32,830
But he was already asleep,
1684
01:30:32,930 --> 01:30:35,301
so he would not remembered that.
1685
01:30:36,201 --> 01:30:38,670
You kissed him on the
forehead, and that's all?
1686
01:30:39,670 --> 01:30:40,570
Yes.
1687
01:30:40,670 --> 01:30:43,360
Then why is he saying you did
all these other things to him?
1688
01:30:43,460 --> 01:30:45,222
I wish I knew Mr. Moultrie.
1689
01:30:47,722 --> 01:30:49,511
No more questions, your honour.
1690
01:30:50,011 --> 01:30:52,131
Very well Dr. Erskine.
You are excused.
1691
01:30:52,866 --> 01:30:53,941
Mr. Aiken would you...
1692
01:30:54,041 --> 01:30:54,941
Glenn, I'm sorry.
1693
01:30:55,041 --> 01:30:56,286
I never thought this would happen.
1694
01:30:56,386 --> 01:30:57,286
Hold on. What's this?
1695
01:30:57,386 --> 01:30:59,822
I wanne see counselors in my chambers now.
1696
01:30:59,922 --> 01:31:01,426
Mr.Aiken. Please bring your client.
1697
01:31:01,526 --> 01:31:03,730
Mr. Moultrie. Bring Mr. Jackson.
1698
01:31:09,610 --> 01:31:10,908
Young man. Look at me.
1699
01:31:11,008 --> 01:31:13,729
Did Dr. Erskine sexually molest you?
1700
01:31:14,529 --> 01:31:15,670
No.
1701
01:31:15,870 --> 01:31:17,110
Who did?
1702
01:31:19,470 --> 01:31:20,710
Nobody.
1703
01:31:21,029 --> 01:31:22,510
Your honour
1704
01:31:22,610 --> 01:31:24,479
Tommy was involved with a friend.
1705
01:31:24,979 --> 01:31:27,289
An older friend at 'New Horizons'.
1706
01:31:28,589 --> 01:31:31,810
When I confronted this friend about
it, he begged me not to report it.
1707
01:31:31,910 --> 01:31:35,130
He knew that if I did, they'd be separated
and never see each other again.
1708
01:31:35,230 --> 01:31:36,241
So I agreed.
1709
01:31:37,241 --> 01:31:39,349
I told Tommy, I wouldn't tell.
1710
01:31:42,449 --> 01:31:45,771
And you're not going to tell
us now who it was, are you?
1711
01:31:46,171 --> 01:31:47,365
No ma'am.
1712
01:31:47,771 --> 01:31:49,665
Is what Dr. Erskine just
said the truth Tommy?
1713
01:31:49,765 --> 01:31:52,895
Yeah. I mean: 'Yes' ma'am.
1714
01:31:53,095 --> 01:31:55,160
Then why did you accuse him of this?
1715
01:31:55,260 --> 01:31:57,181
Do you realize what you have done?
1716
01:31:57,781 --> 01:32:00,121
I'm sorry. I didn't think. I...
1717
01:32:00,221 --> 01:32:03,439
It's okay Tommy.
I understand.
1718
01:32:04,739 --> 01:32:05,803
I take it. Mr. Moultrie,
1719
01:32:05,903 --> 01:32:09,265
you are prepared to drop all
charges against the defendant?
1720
01:32:14,065 --> 01:32:15,590
Yes your honour.
1721
01:32:17,379 --> 01:32:20,409
Step outside please and call the bailiff
and take Mr. Jackson into custody.
1722
01:32:20,509 --> 01:32:22,610
Your honour... Please don't do this.
1723
01:32:22,710 --> 01:32:25,041
Dr. Erskine.
1724
01:32:25,141 --> 01:32:27,051
Purgery is a very serious offense.
1725
01:32:27,351 --> 01:32:29,476
Your honour I'm begging you. Please.
1726
01:32:29,876 --> 01:32:31,630
This boy has been through enough.
1727
01:32:32,130 --> 01:32:34,436
Nothing good will come if you do this.
Please!
1728
01:32:35,536 --> 01:32:36,839
Mr. Moultrie?
1729
01:32:39,239 --> 01:32:41,960
I can't see putting him through
the ID either your honour.
1730
01:32:42,060 --> 01:32:44,856
Why in the world did you
let this get this far?
1731
01:32:44,956 --> 01:32:47,646
I promised Tommy I wouldn't tell.
1732
01:32:47,746 --> 01:32:49,676
That doesn't make any sense.
1733
01:32:50,076 --> 01:32:51,284
I suppose not.
1734
01:32:51,384 --> 01:32:53,590
But it makes sense to me.
1735
01:32:53,690 --> 01:32:54,870
Was it worth it?
1736
01:32:55,270 --> 01:32:56,170
That depends.
1737
01:32:56,270 --> 01:32:57,171
On what?
1738
01:32:57,271 --> 01:32:58,771
It makes sense to him.
1739
01:33:02,208 --> 01:33:05,459
Glenn... I'm sorry.
I know. I know.
1740
01:33:24,610 --> 01:33:27,536
Almost a year has passed
since the trial ended.
1741
01:33:28,136 --> 01:33:31,181
John Brantley called me the day
after the case was dismissed,
1742
01:33:31,336 --> 01:33:34,270
To say I was welcome to
come back to 'New Horizons'.
1743
01:33:34,370 --> 01:33:38,061
There was a part of me that wanted to
say: 'Great, I'll be back tomorrow.'
1744
01:33:38,961 --> 01:33:41,416
A part of me that wanted to say:
1745
01:33:41,516 --> 01:33:43,971
'Go to hell. Won. Out.
1746
01:33:48,890 --> 01:33:52,460
I received a letter, not long ago,
from Tommy. With a picture enclosed.
1747
01:33:52,970 --> 01:33:56,021
He is staying with a family who
started adoption proceedings.
1748
01:33:57,221 --> 01:33:59,271
He told me how happy he is.
1749
01:33:59,471 --> 01:34:02,460
He told me again how sorry
he was for what he did to me.
1750
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:05,646
And he thanked me for what I did for him.
1751
01:34:14,439 --> 01:34:15,649
Jim was right.
1752
01:34:16,349 --> 01:34:18,948
There is no return to innocence.
1753
01:34:19,248 --> 01:34:22,988
A local TV station interviewed
some of the jurors after the trial.
1754
01:34:23,488 --> 01:34:26,910
Two were firmly prepared to vote guilty.
1755
01:34:28,810 --> 01:34:32,065
And I still hear talk that I must
have gotten away with something.
1756
01:34:32,240 --> 01:34:34,580
But I no longer worry about this.
1757
01:34:34,680 --> 01:34:38,770
The people who matter to me the most,
know the truth.
1758
01:34:39,670 --> 01:34:43,281
Tommy Jackson and I share
the simplest truth of all.
1759
01:34:43,381 --> 01:34:46,205
You cannot return to a
place you've never been.
1760
01:34:46,740 --> 01:34:50,199
As I looked at the photograph
in my hand that day.
1761
01:34:50,299 --> 01:34:52,301
I remembered the question
1762
01:34:53,601 --> 01:34:56,075
Moultrie me in the judge's chambers.
1763
01:34:56,175 --> 01:34:57,950
'Was it worth it?'
1764
01:34:59,050 --> 01:35:00,796
You tell me.
1765
01:35:02,060 --> 01:35:04,840
Subtitle: Manvagtoo
129970
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