Original subtitles

Hello, I'm Dick Cabot, and I can't really think of another director who has

the public's fascination and affection the way that Alfred Hitchcock did. It

might have been his inborn personality, which is a combination of many

qualities, and to me all of them were droll.

He loved to talk about his own movies. He loved to describe an incredible

and then say, how did I do it? And you had to guess.

And then he would eagerly say no, no, and tell you the way a kid would tell

how he just invented a card trick.

Well, we taped this show in 1972, and he was promoting his newest film,

Frenzy. And in the afternoon of the taping, by the way, my friend Marshall

Brickman on my staff came up with a very bright idea for the opening of the

show. I think you'll like it.

Watch.

Cabot Show.

Tonight, Dick's special guest is Alfred Hitchcock.

Ladies and gentlemen, Dick Cabot.

Good evening.

Let me explain. As you know, one of Mr.

Hitchcock's trademarks is appearing in anything that he does. And since this

show tonight is something that he's doing, we thought we would get that

appearance in right at the beginning.

Another of Mr.

Hitchcock's trademarks is scaring the bejabers out of nearly everyone.

And he's done that in so many films that it's hard to say what would be your

favorite,

chased across that abandoned cornfield in Kansas by the airplane in North by

Northwest, or Joel McRae watching a windmill turning in the wrong direction

Foreign Correspondent, or Cary Grant bringing a glass of milk that might be

poison to Joan Fontaine in Suspicion, or the shower scene in Psycho, or another

scene from Psycho in which Martin Balsam is trying to find out why there have

been so many...

Murders and goes upstairs in that truly frightening house to find out what kind

of maniac might be up there Do you remember the scene if not here it is

don't watch if you have a weak stomach

Have it is temporarily indisposed.

But we'll be back with some of his cutting remarks after this

word from our sponsor.

Thank you.

Here we are. Greetings, Mr. Hitchcock.

How do you do? Very nice to see you.

I thought that would make a very pleasant murder weapon.

The mower, I mean.

The mower. You mean we've given you an idea? No, you get the victim to lie on

his back. Yes. And then mow the hair off his chest first.

Then stamp on him.

I see.

How did you acquire this turn of mind?

You look like such a pussycat.

I think my mother scared me when I was three months old.

You see, she said, boo.

It gave me the hiccups.

Yes.

And she apparently was very satisfied.

All mothers do it, you know. That's how fear starts in everyone.

That's an interesting insight into psychology. I didn't realize that.

Weren't you ever booed at by your mother?

I've been booed at ever since.

Not necessarily that way.

You know, I was just looking over the incredible list of your films. The

Truffaut book that delighted film people when it came out.

And The 39 Steps and The Lady Vanishes and Notorious and The Paradine Case and

Spellbound and Saboteur and Rebecca.

There are many that I didn't know about. Most of us know of Rope and Strangers

on a Train and Rear Window and Trouble with Harry and Psycho and Vertigo and

Wrong Man and all of those.

But you made some very early films that are seldom...

if ever seen.

Do you have one way back there that would be a favorite? Oh, yes. There was

called The Lodger, all about Jack the Ripper.

That's right.

You know why he... Somebody wants to be ripped.

In this neighborhood they may be, but... Well, that was the case in London in

the 1890s when Jack the Ripper...

roamed around, and, well,

he just took that knife out and placed it

abdomenically and slipped.

Yes. But there were several films made about Jack the Ripper, and in fact a

couple named The Lodger, but yours was in the 30s? They were all copies of the

first one. I made mine in 1926.

1926. When I was the boy director.

Which, of course, I still am now.

Yes, I'm one of the best boy directors we have. Are you still afraid of the

police?

Terrified of the police.

Terrified. Can you explain where that begins?

I think it was when I was a child of five. My father sent me with a note to

local chief of police for a minor, I must admit, a

minor misdemeanor.

And I was placed in a cell for five minutes.

Now, psychiatrists say that if you can trace the origin of your fear,

it will disappear.

The whole thing is a confounded lie.

Because I still have it.

And it's never left you from that day? Never left me. What sensation do you

Do you still, if you see a police car, get frightened?

I would say mild apprehension.

I see.

There are a couple of words that people need to know to understand all about you

and your films, and one of them is a MacGuffin.

Can you explain what a MacGuffin is? Yes, a MacGuffin you see in most films

about spies.

This is the thing that the spies are after.

In the days of Roger Kipling, it would be the plans of the fort on the Khyber

Pass.

It would be the plans of an airplane engine and the plans of an

atom bomb, anything you like. It's always called the thing that the

on the screen worry about, but the audience don't care.

And someone asked, what is a MacGuffin?

And it's described in a scene in an English train going to Scotland.

And one man says to the other opposite him, he said, what's that package above

your head there?

And the other man said, oh, that's a MacGuffin. He said, well, what is a

MacGuffin?

He said, well, it's an apparatus for trapping lions in the Scottish

Highlands.

Man said, but there are no lions in the Scottish Highlands. He said, then that's

no MacGuffin.

Thank you for clearing that out for us.

Oh, yes.

And you adopted that word as the thing, the letters, the plans. It's the thing

that the spies are always after.

I think, well, there's so much to talk to you about.

We will take a break right now to get some time. We'll be right back. Stay

us.

Mr. Hitchcock, you've...

May I say, I was very confused by that last commercial.

Oh, what was it? I didn't even notice. Well, it was a commercial for a

I wonder why all those people doing sports and all that sort of thing, well,

they would need a laxative after such vigorous movements all over the place. I

can't imagine, but does that give you an idea for another film?

Well, I mean, it's rather astonishing.

Well, let me ask you something that ties in a bit with that.

You did a movie that would have seemed impossible because some of the actors

to be birds.

In fact, a great deal of them.

I often wonder if you had to spread newspapers everywhere in the making of

film. I mean, it seems like such an enormous problem to take on, to do a

where you needed birds.

Did you ever think you should turn back, that it was going to be too hard?

No, no, no, because I purposely...

uh didn't advise the technical department what would be necessary

would have said impossible but i think about 3 200 birds were trained

and the ravens were the cleverest they're very smart birds very smart

indeed what was the hardest thing to get the birds to do in that film uh

I don't think anything was really very difficult.

You know, the seagulls were the most vicious.

Were they?

Yes. The hardest thing was to try and persuade them not to be so vicious.

What psychology do you use on a seagull?

Bird seed.

Okay.

There was one scene where the bird swooped down and took a piece of a

out of...

Out of the girl? Out of one of your actresses. Well, if I can give away a

secret. Please do.

That's what we call a double printing job.

The girl was sat in a boat with a tube of compressed air

run up her back into her hair and at a crucial point

a jet of air was blown which blew her hair up.

Then on a separate film we took a picture of a gull sweeping down, and

two were put together, and it swooped down to that crucial point.

It's fun to know how those things work. It's amazing that you've accomplished

that. I hope we can get talks about more of them during the evening.

But we have a clip from the birds. It might be well to roll that right now.

Some people haven't even had fun of seeing it.

That thing gives me the creeps to see. When we come back, let's talk a little

bit about frightening things in movies.

We're going to have chicken for dinner tonight.

I love chicken. I did until you said that. We have a message. We'll be right

back. Let me ask you a bit about your thoughts on violence on the screen and

that. It's interesting because that clip we showed from Psycho.

was from a film that was edited quite a bit when it was shown on primetime

television. Some of the scenes were considered too... Some moments of scenes

were considered too awful to show. In those days.

How do you feel about that?

Well, there's more permissiveness today, but don't forget that's ten years ago.

Things were quite different then.

Do you think if they showed Psycho now, they would be able to show every scene

that you shot? Oh, I think so, without a question, sure.

Really? I doubt that, because they were rather worried that we were showing

anything tonight from that.

Well, there's a different approach for television than there is for movies.

Oh, yes, I meant on television.

Oh, no, no.

Television, the same conditions apply today. Still, yeah. Yeah, I see. But I'm

surprised, really, that in English television, when I was over there, they

a certain amount of nudity.

On English television?

Complete nudity on English television. Yes, considering the weather over there,

I'm surprised.

It must heat the studio somewhere.

I know what you mean about it. Somebody asked me the other day, how long did I

think nudity would last on the screen?

And if you wouldn't think me too vulgar in saying, I said that all breasts sag

eventually.

Do you have research to prove that?

No, I'm afraid I don't.

In that scene from Psycho, you had a curious effect.

It seemed that Balsam seemed to be almost floating backwards, which added

horror of it a bit. It was like a dream. He seemed to be almost in slow motion a

bit as he fell backwards.

I realized the second time I saw it that that was where part of the fright came

from. Well, the point is that if a person falls, they are fighting the

I mean, they don't just drop.

back. You know, if you're falling back, there's an effort to prevent it. And I

think you get that effect there.

But didn't you do something special in the shooting of that? Or did you have

suspended? Oh, well, it was a double printed thing.

He didn't fall down a single stair.

He sat in a very comfortable chair and just lay there like that.

Is that right? Yes, we made the background first of moving down.

I'd love to know how you did all of those things.

That's how actors earn their money, you see.

By not having to do the things they're supposed to do.

You called actors cattle once in your career and offended a few of them. Well,

think at the time, I think I said, I was accused of calling actors cattle, and I

said that I would never say such an unfeeling, rude thing.

about actors at all.

What I probably said was that all actors should be treated like cattle.

I see.

And you went on to do that.

In a nice way, of course.

Yes.

Fed them at the right hours and brushed them occasionally.

I know you... One actress...

Got you for that somehow.

She once had some cattle brought onto a set. That was the famous Carol Lombard.

Carol Lombard, yes.

And she was a woman with a great sense of humor.

And I arrived on the set the first day of shooting, and she had a corral built.

And in it were three live calves with the names of the actors on big discs

around their necks.

You know, it is, in finding out some of the things that you've done and reading

about them and all,

It's amazing how much is the director's work and how little the actors are

needed. In a way, there's a devastating example you gave from a Russian

filmmaker, Pudovkin.

Yes. It had to do with the actor's face and then the... Well, if I may interrupt

you a moment.

Walt Disney had the right idea.

If he didn't like the actors, he tore them up.

But... You talked about the Russian filmmaker.

The power of film, that's how strong film can be. Well, I did the production

section for Encyclopedia Britannica for the last edition, and in it I describe

a scene such as in the picture Rear Window, where you have James Stewart, a

close -up of him, and he looks, you see, and you cut, we'll say, for example, a

woman nursing a baby.

Now you go back to Mr.

Stewart and he smiles.

So what have you demonstrated? That he's a nice, benevolent gentleman.

Now take the middle piece of film away.

He looks, he sees.

Now cut to a girl in a bikini.

And he smiles.

Now he's a dirty old man.

And it's the exact same smile.

Exact same smile, the same look.

The subject has changed.

And you said that there's an even more dramatic example. That was a Russian

filmmaker who showed an actor's face, and then a dead baby, and then the

face, and then a bowl of soup, and then the actor's face. And in each case, it

was the same shot of the actor's face, but in one seemed to be sorrow, and the

other seemed to be hunger.

That's quite true, yes. So you could get an Academy Award performance for an

actor with only one shot of him, really. Well, I did it years ago with an

actress, and I found her very difficult.

And I did all her close -ups and said, look here, look there, look down, look

across, move around.

And go home.

And then you may go home.

And I brought in another actress, and I used all her hands. And she was cutting

meat, and it was the prelude to a murder scene.

And you just put everything around it. I used the hands only, yes.

Is there a scene you wouldn't do over again?

Are you sorry you did some?

I'm thinking of one specifically, the boy with the bomb.

Well, that was because I made the terrible mistake of having a boy carry a

across the city.

You, the audience, knew that it was a bomb.

And I built it up and up until the various clocks and all the hold -ups.

And you knew it was going to go off at one o 'clock, but I let the clock go one

minute past one, two minutes, and worked the audience up, and then I let the

bomb go off. And he was on a bus, and it blew the whole thing completely.

And I remember I was at the press show, and a woman critic came up with both

raised fists and said, how dare you do a thing like that? Even a hard -boiled

critic was.

taken away with the whole thing. I'd made the mistake in not relieving them

the end of the suspense.

In other words, if you put an audience through the mill like that, you must

relieve it. The bomb must be found and quickly thrown out of the window.

Then it goes off out there and the audience are relieved.

And if you had it to do over again?

I'd never let the bomb go off.

What would you do with the rest of the movie?

Well, I mean, well, that wouldn't be the last scene in the movie. No, that's

true. But was it also because a child was killed in the scene that they

it was too brutal? No, I don't think that's the reason. I think the reason is

that an audience gets worked up and they need relief. For example, if anybody

goes on a roller coaster, they scream.

It goes down the big dip and up and around. They're screaming all the time.

But always get off giggling.

Yeah. Or you go to the midway and you pay money to go into the haunted house.

And skeletons jump up and the floor does all kinds of things. But they always

come out giggling.

Now the question, why do people pay money to be scared?

Do you know the answer?

Of course not.

I earn my living doing it.

Better not to question it. What would my starving wife and child do without it?

Or your starving self.

Yes, that's right.

By the way, I should explain, there's always somebody who misunderstands.

A child was not killed in the making of the movie. It was in the scene itself,

supposedly. Someone always writes it and it's misunderstood.

We'll be back after this. We'll be serious.

Talking with the master, Alfred Hitchcock. You...

always have appeared in your film somewhere.

I know that became a problem for you because you found that people watched

it so that you had to do it early in the film to get it out of the way after it

became known.

But in Lifeboat, the whole cast was out at sea in a lifeboat, and there was no

way, unless you peddled past on one of those machines, you could do that. All

swam past was a whale, you mean.

Spouting.

No, in that film, I had to appear in an ad.

It was during the time that I was taking some weight off. I know it sounds like

a lie, but I was.

Yes. But it always gets back on. And I appeared in an ad called Reducer.

And it was being read by William Bendix. And the ad showed me before and after.

So you got into the film. I got into the film.

Were those actors miserable in that lifeboat?

Well,

some of them were. Of course, we had the famous Tallulah Bankhead. It was

great fun.

And one of the young ladies in the boat had great ambitions to become

a film star.

And I discovered that she was stuffing Kleenex into her brassiere.

to build herself up. And one day she said to me, Oh, Mr. Hitchcock, which do

think is my best side?

And I said, You're sitting on it, my dear.

And that girl today, well, I guess we won't ask.

Probably still sitting on it.

They say that some people who are offended by the shocking things in your

or the scary things, and yet lately they've begun to say that what seemed

depraved to some of the earlier critics has become commonplace today and that

you were really ahead of your time.

Does that mean anything to you? Do you believe that?

No, it means I've got to get more ahead than ever.

In other words, avoid the cliché. Where will you go?

Where is the fun for it in you?

The fun in it for you, I mean.

What is funny?

Making a picture like Psycho.

That's hilarious to me.

It has to be.

If we're designing the film, I'm sitting with the writer, and you say, well,

wouldn't it be fun to kill them this way or that way?

And then you say, well, this scene will make them scream.

So you do it with a sort of lushness of enjoyment.

And no different to the man who's driving the nails in that scaffolding

making the roller coaster.

He knows they're going to scream eventually.

And there's that fine line between fear...

And what is comic? You see, the audience have this tremendous fear when they go

on the roller coaster.

And when they get off, they're laughing.

They've recovered.

And there is a fine line between tragedy and comedy.

For example, how often have you seen years ago the old -fashioned scene of

man walking toward the open manhole cover?

And, of course, he has to wear a top hat.

Because that's dignity, you see. That's a symbol of dignity.

And you watch him and he walks.

He's reading a paper that's missed it. And suddenly disappears down the hall.

And everybody roars with laughter.

But suppose you took a second look and looked down the hall.

His head is cut. He's bleeding.

And I send for an ambulance.

His wife rushes to the hospital.

Think how ashamed that audience is that they laughed in the first place. And yet

they do.

Slipping on a banana skin is very painful.

We have one weirdo who's still laughing.

So there's a streak of cruelty among everyone.

Sure.

And you get yours out by making movies.

Well, it's not exactly cruelty. It's a kind of...

enjoyment in knowing that they'll enjoy themselves in that peculiar way at that

time. That's right. People will submit themselves to a good scare.

Oh, no question.

I call it dipping their toe in the cold waters of fear.

I can't think of anyone who could say it better.

What I was wondering earlier was where you...

What part do you look forward to most when you're making a film? Is it the

actual shooting of the film? No,

not the shooting.

The working it out and getting it all done and finished.

And the creative thing is done.

And I wish I hadn't got to go any further.

I'd rather not make the film.

The having to go into the studio is not the fun part for you? No, that's not the

fun part. Seeing it work out.

No, because you want to then start dealing with the actors again.

Oh, it's those actors.

And is that necessary evil?

I know that you're pretty serious about that. In the interview Truffaut did with

you, several times you looked back on your films and you said, I just wasn't

quite satisfied with her or with so -and -so, with so -and -so. I wish I could

have gotten him for the part.

Have you heard from any of those people, or did they know when they were working

for you that you weren't quite satisfied with them?

Well, they have to know when you say to them, that'll be all for today.

And they go and see the film and find another man playing their part.

Yeah, I guess that would... I mean, some of the ones that stayed... Well, never

mind.

But there were some cases where now you could have gotten actors that wouldn't

do it then. Was it Gary Cooper?

that you wanted for a part, and scary films were considered sort of third rate

in those days, when you first started. I think it was Gary Cooper you wanted for

one part. Yes, I wanted for Foreign Correspondent, yes.

And later he said, I wish I had made that, but it was sort of beneath the

dignity of certain big stars. I don't think that, I don't think they could

visualize what the film was going to be like, you see.

That's an incredible one in Foreign Correspondent. I think it's in Foreign

Correspondent. Where you have a thing that you said you were surprised no one

ever asked you how you did it or why technical people didn't because it's

impossible. That was a scene where an airplane, a passenger, a

clipper, remember the clippers, was being shot at during the war and was

diving toward the ocean.

And we were in the cockpit with the pilot and co -pilot.

And without any cuts at all, the plane dives right to the ocean, hits the

water, and the water comes in from the ocean over the pilot and co -pilot,

and possibly the camera. And not a soul questioned it. They didn't say what

happened to the camera crew or anything.

Did they all drown and were never seen again?

They just took it for granted.

Maybe knowing you, they thought they probably did.

Maybe.

Perhaps when we come back from this message, you'll reveal how you did that.

Mr. Hitchcock, you've kept us in suspense through two commercials.

How did you manage to get a shot where the view inside the cockpit went all the

way down to the ocean, into the ocean, and the water came in? Very simple.

You heard of rear projection.

Yeah, when they show the picture on the back of a screen.

Show the picture on the back and you play the scene in front of the screen.

Well, I had a test pilot go out off Santa Monica and dive with a camera on

front of the plane toward the ocean.

Pull out at the last minute.

Then I had six screens made, eight feet wide, six feet high, built the

cockpit, put the pilots in, and then the screen made of rice paper.

Behind the screen were two what we call dump tanks with chutes.

These tanks are filled with 2 ,700 gallons of water each, and all I had to

was press a button. And as I looked at the screen, the moment we touched water,

I pressed the button, and the water shot right through the screen, tore it to

ribbons, and all the water came in over the pilots.

That's very simple. The very screen that... Say that.

Get a hand for solving that problem.

The screen that it was being projected on of the ocean coming up then actually

was the screen that burst and the water came out. It made a rice paper, you see?

That's ingenious. So the water with two shoots came right at it.

You've done a lot of things like that, and I think that would be part of the

fun, would be solving those undoable problems.

Oh, yes, sure it was, yes.

Yeah.

What... Can you give away any secrets of your theory of scaring people? The

psycho shower scene made many women afraid to take a shower in a house where

they were alone for years, some to this day.

Well, I had a letter from a man who said that my daughter, after she saw the

French film Diabolique, would never take a tub anymore because they hadn't seen

it. with a man coming out of a tub and taking his eyes out. Some horror scene.

He said, and after seeing that, she'd never take a tub.

Now, having seen Psycho, she won't take a shower.

As a result, she's very unpleasant to be around.

So I replied, I said, dear sir, send her to the dry cleaner.

I was wondering what your theory is of how to make a scene as scary as you did

that, without getting too technical, but a lot of film students are watching

because there are a lot of them around the country and colleges.

The average movie I think I've read is made up of about 600 separate shots.

Would that be true? Well, the shower scene in Psycho, the knife never touched

the body at all.

It was just this fast cutting from one thing to another, the knife coming at

camera and so forth.

Actually, the property people at the studio made me a lovely torso with pink

rubber.

And it was all tubed inside with blood.

So if you took a knife and stabbed this rubber torso, blood would spurt out

immediately.

But I never used it. It was all unnecessary because the cutting of the

the girl's face and the feet and everything.

were so rapid that there were 78 separate pieces of film in 45

seconds. So this fear came from the putting together.

Yes, sure.

Well, anything that you can involve an audience so close

is much better than seeing it from a distance. I think there's nothing more

boring than a barroom brawl in a western.

What do they do? Break up a lot of furniture and a lot of bottles on the

But if you took the audience right in and got an impression of a face, a hand,

an arm, feet and everything, you'd involve the audience much closer with

People have said to you, aren't you going to show the whole room when they

an elaborate set? And you said, I think the stripes on the policeman's arm are

enough to show that we're in a police station.

Well, you don't have to show the whole room. And also, you need a long shot for

certain effects.

If you want to show, we'll say, loneliness, then you have one figure

room. I remember in the film, Rebecca, the young girl there, was brought to a

big house. She was very scared.

So naturally, when she walked into this big room, You made her small,

deliberately, you see. In fact, to make her feel afraid, I even had a fan blow

her hair slightly, even though the windows weren't open.

See, that is interesting.

You wanted the effect even though it wouldn't be realistic. That's right.

Totally realistic.

And I gather you would never shoot from... Sometimes in a movie you'll see

cameras inside the fireplace behind the flames.

Oh, that's charming, isn't it?

That's putting the audience out of the frying pan into the fire.

You'd never do that? Never. Why? What does that violate? Well, it's

Nobody can get inside the fire to get burnt.

It doesn't make sense. All those things are quite silly to me. And yet some of

them are still done, even though they haven't... Well, look at the movies you

see today where they put flowers in the foreground.

So blurred and out of focus, you don't know what it is.

I saw a western like that where about nine scenes in a row started with a

cactus flower in the close -up and the writer in the distance.

Well, was the story about a cactus flower?

No, but that's the point, isn't it? Yes, it is.

May I say a word about Soft Swirl? We have a scene from your new film, which

Hitchcock fans are delighted to say is vintage Hitchcock, and I'm glad to see a

scene from that.

Have you heard that?

Now, here's a word about a brand -new dessert from Jell -O.

We'll be back.

Here we are again.

Frenzy is the name of your new film. And we have a short bit from that, which I

haven't seen, and presumably neither has the audience.

Should you tell us anything about it?

Oh, before you see it, you mean?

Or... Well... Would you rather tell us after? I think after would be better.

All right.

Let's let the man's work speak for itself, and then the man.

Do you see what I see?

Here, what's wrong?

Who is it?

Perhaps you can tell us.

As you will see, it's a body of a murdered girl that has fallen off

a potato truck.

She's just fallen out of a sack of potatoes in which the murderer stuffed

her right in among the potatoes.

And this is a scene after the murderer has escaped, leaving the body on the

truck. And due to the breaking of the truck, the body was shot out.

I think the most significant thing about the whole scene is...

How it improved the taste of the potatoes.

The movie for vegetarians.

Definitely. You do have the most odd sense of humor.

How do you mean odd? You mean 1, 3, 5, 7, 8, 11?

I don't know. Some combination of numbers.

You would think that things don't happen in life.

happened in hitchcock films and that you've made invented these ingenious

but uh there are some pretty strange cases of things that seem to be right

of your films one you describe in the book was a case in in england where a

disposed of parts of a body except the head and it gave you an inspiration for

something in a film you did but uh the story was that the um He put the head

into the fireplace, I believe. This is an actual murder case. Oh, yes, that was

a real murder case, yes.

The man had killed a woman and he had

disposed of most of the body by cutting it up and throwing it out of the window

of a railroad train between the south coast of England and London.

But he still had the problem of what to do with the head.

And the bungalow that he was living in was on a beach near the

English Channel.

And there was a thunderstorm that night.

And he put the head into the fireplace and lit a fire under it.

And the fire started.

And the heat of the fire suddenly caused the eyes to open.

and it scared the hell out of him.

And he ran out onto the beach and never came back.

And I remember talking to one of the big men at Scotland Yard, and he told me

how he re -enacted the scene to get the timing right when they were

investigating the case. And he went to a butcher's shop and got a sheep's head

and did the same thing with it.

To get the actual timing. To get the timing of how long it would take for the

skull to burn.

In order to convict the man.

Was he convicted as a result? Oh, yes, convicted and hanged. That sounds so

preposterous that if he did it in a film, they would say that's a little too

contrived. Oh, yes, they would. This is true.

Gee, there's so many things I'd love to get to you. Well, we have a message.

We'll be right back.

Mr. Chuck, do you have any feelings about working with big stars as opposed

unknown faces in the films? Many of your films, of course, had Ingrid Bergman

and Cary Grant.

No, I have no function for the story.

I don't mind one way or the other.

But I think the good cast that fits

the story is what you see because we have so few stars today.

And the star doesn't necessarily guarantee you success anymore.

It doesn't guarantee success at the box office. It used to be regarded as

insurance, you see. Yes. That doesn't apply today.

People don't like the picture. It doesn't matter who's in it. They won't

I read somewhere once that you'd made a remark that romantic men and romantic

lady leading roles, the people who play those are inevitably...

very much in love with each other. Well, that's because, you know, one hears of

so many multiple marriages in Hollywood. You know, women have had four husbands

and vice versa.

And I think it's really because they meet in a love scene, in a picture,

and they bring it to life and truth after six o 'clock,

in the dressing room, preferably.

Have you ever caught them doing this?

No, not myself, because I like to be home at 6 o 'clock.

But they apparently don't. But I think that's one of the reasons why you find

multiple marriages in Hollywood. You know, every man has

been married about two or three times. That's because he meets a different

every film that comes along.

Are you suggesting that Grace Kelly then was in love with James Stewart and then

with Cary Grant and then with, who else was there, Raymond Land?

Well, I wouldn't particularize on it because I'm

generalizing. Oh, I see. Okay. And he's not an army man either.

Who?

Generalizing. Oh, generalizing.

You like all kinds of horror, don't you? Bad puns?

Not bad puns.

Puns are the highest form of literature.

There are those who would agree with you. I think I'm one of them, actually.

Puns are good.

Are there films you wouldn't do over again?

Some people have been very hurt to find when Rope was their favorite picture,

and that body in the trunk.

Young men giving a dinner party with the body in the trunk and all that appeal

to so many people as a mystery, as a frightening film.

And they're disappointed to hear that you wouldn't do it the way you did it if

you had to do it again.

Oh, yes, I would. Yes, that'll be shown on TV very soon.

It hasn't been shown as yet.

You did the astounding thing of doing the movie in 20 -minute takes. Well,

was because it was a theater piece.

I was trying to get some movement.

into what is really a theatre piece.

So we follow the actors all around and it was a prodigious job of production

because walls had to slide away to let the camera go through and all

kinds of things. I remember the opening shot, we had this set and it was a sort

of a penthouse room and we built a great big panorama of New York.

in miniature form, not just a painted back.

And then we had a dining room and a kitchen.

I remember the opening scene took 750 feet without a cut, starting

with the murder of the boy, following the two through into the dining room,

the kitchen.

And you hold your breath right the way through for fear something may go wrong.

You're the director.

And they...

Got some champagne and brought it back.

And as the camera came back, I said, my God, thank goodness this shot's over.

And as we panned around, there's an electrician standing there.

Right in the window.

Oh, and you couldn't rewrite the film to allow for that. Start all over again.

I guess that's why they said you were crazy to try it. Because the average

in a film is how many seconds or how many feet? Oh, it could be half a

minute. Two minutes. You did 20 -minute takes, I believe. Ten or 11 -minute

takes. Ten or 11, which is unheard of until you did it.

I guess I'm fascinated with those technical things and how you did them.

told Truffaut a story about the glass of milk in Suspicion. In Suspicion, yes.

Cary Grant is suspected of being a murderer.

And there's a very high shot of a hallway.

And he's bringing her what you, the audience, know to be the fatal glass of

milk. And he brings it all the way up and it comes round the circular ticket

until it comes right into the camera.

Well, so that that glass of milk stood out very clearly, I put a little lamp

inside the milk.

A little light bulb?

Yes, with a little battery.

So the milk glowed all the way up.

It's sort of enhancing the poison.

Yes.

Didn't you once almost persuade Garbo to come out of retirement for a film?

No, I didn't.

No,

I couldn't persuade myself to do that.

Wait, did you try once?

No, never, no.

I thought there was some talk that she might have played in one of your films.

No, the only trouble is, you know, obviously with Garbo you couldn't find a

subject.

Where she could be alone.

All right.

Do you invent those little moments that are going to live with people for years?

I know anyone who ever saw Spellbound remembers the fork on the tablecloth

making the parallel lines or the glass snapping in the hand of the man in rope

when he's under pressure. The crystal glass snaps and breaks his hand.

Breaks the skin. Well, there are touches in Spellbound. The whole thing was the

line, which eventually paid off as Ski Lines, which solved the whole problem.

Yeah.

I don't know. Are there so many? You never wanted to make a Western?

No. I don't know much about Westerns.

I like to know all the details, you know.

It's like costume pictures.

I'm no good at costume pictures, and to me, nobody in a costume picture ever

goes to the toilet.

And that spoils it for you?

For me, yes, it does, just in the same way that I don't know how much a loaf of

bread costs in the West.

I see. All right. That answers that. We'll be right back with a message from

local station.

During the break in the studio, someone asked Mr. Hitchcock what the ending of

The Birds meant.

He made a very bold statement, I thought. He said you had no idea.

Well, the point was, where do you end? Had I gone further with it, then the

shot would have been the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, covered in

And I fought shy of doing that because...

I thought, wherever are we going to get that number of birds from?

Yes. And then the residuals would have been enormous to all those birds. For

each bird, of course.

That's right.

Has there been anything that they told you you just couldn't do, that you

to do, and they wouldn't let you either for censorship, well, for censorship

purposes in a film?

No, no, I'm much too respectable.

I see. To be involved in anything so sordid as that.

Of course, I should have known before asking.

Is there anything, though, that you haven't done that you really want to get

yet? Is there anything that you'd like to experiment with, with the camera,

suspense, or something that you've... No, I wait till the subject comes along

and then tackle it from there on, you know.

Every subject brings new challenges.

If you had to take one of your films, if they said, I'm sorry, there are too

many films in the world and we're going to have to select one from each director

and destroy the rest, could you instantly go to one of your films?

That I prefer, you mean?

Well, of course, it's always the last one.

But that's too conventional an answer.

No, a film I made years ago called Shadow of a Doubt.

I liked it.

Because it was true, it was a character picture.

And it was a family in a northern Californian town.

And beloved Uncle Charlie comes to stay with them.

And what the family don't know is that Uncle Charlie is a mass murderer.

Murdered many women.

So the suspense is, how long will it be before the family find out the truth?

It's a good one. They never do.

I think Notorious is one that I can watch every time it's on television, and

there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with that film, and it was made quite a

number of years ago.

1944, and that's where I put in uranium as the MacGuffin.

Yes. We all remember that word, boys and girls?

A year before Hiroshima.

Yeah, and no one could figure out later how you did that, because when you see

the film now, you take the atom bomb for granted, but there was not an atom

bomb, and no one knew you... No, it was in the course of manufacture.

And I went with the writer, Ben Hecht, because one had read of the Germans

experimenting with heavy water in Norway and that sort of thing. And I went with

Ben Hecht, the writer, to Caltech, and we walked into the office of Dr.

Millikan, the famous professor there.

and said, how big would an atom bomb be?

And there was silence. And then he spent an hour telling us how impossible the

whole thing was.

And I understand I was watched by the FBI for three months afterwards.

Then how did you know to use uranium if they denied it? Well, I knew that

uranium, Lord Rutherford split the atom in 1920.

And I knew that would be the way in which the atom bomb would be made.

Then I heard of a place in New Mexico where men went in and never came out

again.

Where is that?

Alamogordo, of course.

The first bomb was shot off. Did you know that within a year there would be

atom bomb?

Well, I didn't know when, but I knew it was possibly coming.

And the producer...

I didn't believe in it. He said, I think that's a lot of nonsense.

I said, you're worrying about the MacGuffin. I said, this is a love story

between Ingrid Bergman and Cary Grant.

Don't worry about it. If you don't like uranium, we'll make it industrial

diamonds.

Years afterwards, when the film was shown in Germany, he said to me, well,

said, you know, those Germans are very clever.

Now that uranium is out of date, they've changed it to narcotics.

Really?

When you were a kid, what were you like?

Nice. Were you a

sweet boy? Were you popular?

Very quiet.

Did you have a lot of friends? Very dignified.

Kept to myself.

Didn't have a lot of little friends?

No, never fought other boys.

Was very diligent.

And which reminds me, may I tell you a story?

Yes. About a nice little boy. His father managed to get him into the best school

in England, Eton College. You've heard of that.

Father went to visit him after a week.

And the boy was scratched and bruised.

Terrible state. He said, what happened?

He said, they don't like me here, father.

They call me a dirty little Jew.

He said, don't you fight back. They'll throw you out of the school. Keep away

from them.

He waits a week, visits the boy again.

And he's still badly cut up. He said, they're still calling you that? He said,

yes, Father. He said, you tell them that Jesus Christ was a Jew, and that'll

stop them.

He said, all right, Father. Goes away.

Third week, you've got two black eyes.

He said, what? They're still calling you that?

He said, didn't you tell them what I told you to tell them? He said, I tried

Father, but I forgot the gentleman's name.

That's a story I have never heard and would not expect to hear anywhere else.

I think it's a charming story.

It's a nice story.

It pulls in several directions.

That reminds me of something. I don't know if you know that I know this or if

you even remember it, but someone who works for me once had a friend who

you from a magazine to interview you, and he asked you if you were Catholic,

because he said, we're the Catholic Digest, let's say was the magazine's

and we want to do an article about you.

And you said, what is the circulation?

That's a very funny story.

Is it? Oh, no.

You can't always tell by the amount of laughter.

Did you ever tell the man once he told you what the circulation was?

I told him, yes, I was a Jesuit educated.

And that's where I learned about fear.

Ah, you were terrorized by your teachers.

They scared the hell out of me.

How did they do it? Very strict.

Did they threaten physical violence on you? Oh, no, no, no, no. It's just the

way you're brought up.

And how would they frighten you? If you didn't do your lessons properly, if you

were not obedient, what bothered them?

Well, there were certain punitive measures, may I call them,

taken.

Physical? Physical.

Not desperately.

physical, but enough to deter one in future occasions.

At that age? At that age, yes.

We have a message. We'll be back.

Someone asked during the break what you did with the Demi film.

You said it's floating in the bathtub at home.

That's right.

You have a reputation for being a practical joker. Is this...? Yes, I used

but I find that people don't have the same sense of humor anymore.

I once gave a dinner party, oh, many years ago, where all the food was blue.

Everything was blue. Well, I don't exactly see how you'd get an idea like

I gave the dinner, it was blue.

Sandwiches, dessert, everything? Oh, no, no, it was a full meal. It was chicken

soup, blue.

Blue trout, blue chicken, blue ice cream.

And when you broke open your roll, the bread was blue inside.

Did you explain this or did you just not comment on it? Not comment on it at

all.

I once gave a dinner party for my wife at, you know, Chasen's Restaurant out in

Hollywood. He had a back garden in those days.

We had a table for 14 people.

And I got central casting to give me an aristocratic old lady.

We had her hair done beautifully, dressed her well, and sat her at the

the table.

And the guests arrived and said, who's the old lady? I said, I don't know.

I said, I've never met her before. Which was the truth, I had.

And the proprietor of the restaurant kept out of the way, and guests

to arrive, and all was the same question.

Who's the old lady? I said, I don't know, we're trying to find out.

And finally the proprietor came, and I said, Dave, go and find out who that old

lady is.

Sitting up there, and he went and bent over her, and he came back and she said,

she's with Mr.

Hitchcock's party.

I thought I'd never seen her before in my life. Well, she sat there the whole

meal.

Drinking martinis, by the way.

Did she enjoy it?

Apparently, she had to be helped to the car.

Have you abandoned practical jokes now?

More or less, yes, more or less.

I see.

Someone asked here if there are...

Have you ever seen a movie that thrilled you or scared you? Are you capable of

being scared on the screen, or do you just know too much about how

done and know what's coming?

Know too much.

Do you?

Mm -hmm.

Are there directors you admire?

Oh, yes, I admire men like Trooper, Buniel.

Do you know his work at all?

Oh, yes, a lot of fine directors.

Orson Welles?

Yes, he's very famous for one big film, Citizen Kane.

What will you do next?

I'm the subject.

You don't have him.

I'm looking for another body.

When we find that, then the story will take its course.

I wanted once to do a scene for North by Northwest, by the way.

And I couldn't get it in there. I wanted it to be in Detroit.

and two men walking along in front of an assembly line.

Yes. And behind them you see the automobile being put together. It starts

frame, and you just click the camera along, the two men are talking, and you

know all those cars are eventually driven off the line. They load them with

and everything.

And one of the men goes forward. Mind you, you've seen a car from nothing.

Just a frame.

Opens the door and the dead body falls out.

Stole my idea for a movie.

Not a coincidence, the two of us. Somebody will hear it on the air and

from me.

Do people constantly send you ideas and do you welcome them?

Not ideas, no, not really, no.

What do you read for fun?

Biography. Never read fiction.

You don't? No.

Biographies of, whose have you read?

Oh, I've read all the famous generals and politicians, that sort of thing.

Can you be happy when you're not working on a film?

We're always working on a film, some way or other.

I see, yeah.

We only have a minute left. Is there anything that we haven't covered that

would like to mention?

I don't think so. I think we've covered quite a bit of ground. I'd love to have

you come back sometime.

There's just so much we could say.

I have to do a sequel calling it Cavort with Cavit.

After this message, we'll be back. We'll think about that.

The people at home missed a number of things here in the studio. You must come

back. Someone asked if it was trouble getting the children to work with those

birds in that movie.

And Mr. Hitchcock said it was hard getting the birds to work with the

But please come back sometime, and it's been just a delight to meet you, and

congratulations on the great work you've done.

Thank you very much.

Next Thursday, catch Cabot match wits with one of Hollywood's toughest leading

ladies. Dick Cabot presents his legendary talk with Betty Davis, plus an

of classic Davis films. The Dick Cabot Show next Thursday night at 8 and 11

Eastern on Turner Classic Movies.