All language subtitles for Paradise.Lost.2.Revelations.2000.1080p.WEBRip.x264-RARBG

I knew from when
I was real small

that people were gonna
know who I was.

I always had that feeling.

But I just never knew
how they were gonna learn.

I kinda enjoy it,
because now even after I die,

people are going
to remember me forever.

They're gonna
talk about me for years.

People in west Memphis
will tell their kids stories.

It... it will be, like,

sort of like I’m
the west Memphis bogey man.

Little kids will be
looking under their bed

before they go to bed...
"Damien might be under there."

If I had the opportunity
to speak to Damien Echols...

I would tell him that I hope
he busts hell wide open.

Period.

And that if I could
get my hands on him,

I would eat the skin
off of his face.

"Paradise lost:
The child murders
at Robin Hood Hills,"

this film tells the tale
of three teens who wore black,

listened to Metallica
and, perhaps as a result,

were convicted in the 1993
killing of three young boys.

Two filmmakers
with incredible access

spent almost a year
in west Memphis documenting
the trial and the town.

Everybody in the town
and in the courtroom
and on the jury

are all blinded
by their fantasies
about satanic cults.

The criminal confessions.

Are too many manipulated
by the police?

You've got to be
wondering if the true killers
were actually captured.

The reason
I made the, um,

"west Memphis bogey man"
comment during the first film

was because I was making
light of the situation.

I was joking.
I didn't realize that...

I mean I didn't
even comprehend

that the situation
could get this serious,

that it could actually
go this far.

Because I was thinking,
"if you haven't done anything,

then they can't prove
that you did something

you haven't
actually done."

That didn't make sense to me.
Now I see they can.

I wasn't even thinking
about it whenever I said it...

a spur-of-the-moment thing.

But a lot of people, it seems,
didn't take it that way.

You're not gonna be
no bogey man in west Memphis

because you're gonna
be dead in hell.

You're watching KATV
channel 7,

the spirit of Arkansas.

Today marks
the five-year anniversary

of a west Memphis murder case
that gained national attention.

The bodies of
three second graders:

Steven branch, Christopher Byers
and Michael Moore

were found mutilated
in a ditch.

Now one of the three men
convicted for the murders,
Damien Echols,

has prompted a hearing to try
to get his conviction
thrown out.

- Norris.
- That hearing
started today in Jonesboro,

where the trial
also took place.

Damien Echols is trying
to avoid being executed
by lethal injection.

He's claiming he didn't
get a fair trial

because of misrepresentation
by his attorneys.

Four years ago an Arkansas jury
found him guilty

of murdering
three second graders

in a horrific
ritualistic sacrifice.

As our senior correspondent
Tim Sullivan reports,

he wants a new trial
and a chance to live.

After a month
of investigation,

police arrested Echols
and two of his teenage friends,

Jessie Misskelley
and Jason Baldwin.

Police theorized
the murders had been
part of a satanic ritual.

In addition to local media,

the case attracted
a documentary team

that produced a film called
"paradise lost" for HBO.

As a result of the film,

a nationwide support group
has sprung up

to help
the young men they call
"the west Memphis three."

If the world would only know
that this case is

a travesty.
It is a non-case.

It is a case where someone
is in prison right now
because of prejudice.

My son Christopher was
the one that Jason Baldwin,

Jessie Misskelley
and Damien Echols murdered

on may 5, 1993,
five years ago today.

That's all we're really doing
is trying to promote the case.

You know, we're not experts,
we're not lawyers,
we're not scientists.

We just need
to keep this case alive
so people will do something.

- And where
are you from?
- Los Angeles.

- Where are you from?
- I'm from Arkansas...

- Paris, Arkansas.
- And where are you from?

Akron, Ohio.

Mark, how do you feel about
"the west Memphis three"
support group?

To me it's like
a Jeffrey Dahmer fan club,

Charles Manson fan club,
Ted Bundy.

You could name them all.
Some people want to come to
the rescue of a savage

to get maybe their 15-minutes'
notoriety on TV.

We get emails from
all over the world actually.

You know, everybody knows
there's doubt about this case,

but we just want
people to look at it again
and maybe question it.

They keep wanting to find
someone else to blame

to get their three off.

That's their job...
taking care of who they want;

draw suspicion;
Do their thing.

But the world knows who's
guilty and who's innocent.

Could you hold that out for me
and let me get another shot?

We would like
to talk about the case.

I'm here today because this is
a hearing for Damien Echols.

It's the fifth anniversary
of the tragic murders

which he was convicted for,
but we do not feel there was

really sufficient evidence
to warrant that conviction.

Yeah, they're guilty.
They're guilty as they are.

And that's an atrocity
for you to even want to sell...

where's the profit going
for these t-shirts?

It all goes to raise
publicity about the case.

Every penny of it goes
back into doing that.

Why doesn't the profit go
to the victims' families?

The son of Sam law says
that Echols and these three
can't make any money off it...

- it doesn't go to them.
- It is going to
the victims' families.

It is. It's trying
to find out who killed
these little boys.

- They know who killed these
three little boys right there.
- I don't know it.

- They're
cold-blooded murderers.
- In your opinion.

It doesn't... doesn't
add up that way for us.

In my opinion
and 24 jurors out of
the state of Arkansas's opinion.

Don't just say
my opinion.

These T-shirts...

they're worth trash,
garbage.

I've been locked up six years
for something that I didn't do.

And sometimes, uh,
the things we go through
that make us suffer

are very good teachers.

I think my suffering
through this whole thing

has taught me
a very great deal.

I have anger sometimes,

but there's no one
to direct it towards, you know?

So I just really try
to stay focused on, uh,

just going home,
getting...

letting everybody
know that I am innocent,
that I didn't do this.

Um, I don't really understand
how they convicted me

or got me in here
or really how they did...

how they just arrested me
in the first place, you know?

But it happened,
so I just can't really
dwell on what's happened.

I've just got to work
with what's going on now.

When they told me that
I was going to spend

the rest of my life in prison,
at the time,

I wanted to tell them,
"look, I don't want to do that.

Just... you might as well just
go ahead and kill me right now

because there ain't
no way I'm going to spend
the rest of my life

in prison and miss my family.
I just can't do that."

But you know, over the years
past and everything,

I done... you know,
I done got used to it,

done adjusted to it
and everything,

how the system works
and all that, you know.

I adjusted to it,
you know.

Basically...

It's getting better
and better by the day.

You know, I've just got
to adjust to it more often.

And it's getting better.

But I lived... I'm gonna
make it through it.

♪ Welcome to where
time stands still ♪

♪ no one leaves
and no one will ♪

♪ the moon is full,
it never seems to change ♪

♪ just labeled
mentally deranged... ♪

My name is Chris Worthington
and I'm from Akron, Ohio.

Debra Shue, I'm from
Murfreesboro, Tennessee.

I'm Kathy Bakken
and I'm from California.

Grove Pashley,
g-r-o-v-e p-a-s-h-l-e-y,

and I'm from Los Angeles.

Anna Macek,
a-n-n-a m-a-c-e-k,

from right outside
Houston, Texas.

I'm Ruth Carter
and I'm from Virginia.

Bill Prichason,
p-r-i-c-h-a-s-o-n,

- A-s-o-n?
- New Joisey.

Gregory Fleming
from Alexander, Arkansas.

I'm Marcia Ian,
m-a-r-c-i-a i-a-n,

also from New Jersey.

My name's burk Sauls
and I'm an alcoholic.

No, I'm burk Sauls,
b-u-r-k s-a-u-l-s,

and I'm from
Los Angeles, California.

I'd like it if you
could all tell me why...

why some of you
have come from so far?

Some, I think, have driven
as far as from California,

taken vacation time,
spent money and so forth

to come to this...

fairly obscure
in many ways... hearing.

I think I saw "paradise lost"
the night it premiered on HBO

in August of '96.

And it just made me so mad

that a modern-day
witch trial

was being allowed
to occur in America.

I mean, it's not just the fact
that they were making mistakes

and getting the wrong people,
it looked like,

but the fact that people seemed
to be reaching their decisions,

even the jury,

because of things
like emotions and prejudice

and hysteria
and their anger.

And they weren't using
their reason or common sense

or they weren't really
even applying the law.

And I just think
that's the wrong way

for things to happen
in America.

And I couldn't
forget about it.

I just got angrier,
so finally I decided
to look into the case

and I wrote Damien
and read all I could about it

and finally just
kind of stumbled upon

other people on the Internet
who felt like I did about it.

It just made me cry.
It really made me cry,
because I was thinking,

"how in the world
can they sentence
this guy to death

with what they have?
Which is nothing."

When I went to work,
you know, and they had

"caught" the people
that had done this,

my boss at work,
she just thought it was great.

She was like, "well,
they caught those freaks
that killed those kids."

What a relief!

Yeah, I mean,
those were her exact words...
"they caught those freaks."

And I said, "they haven't
even done the trial yet.

What makes
you think they did it?"
And she was like,

"well, look at them.
Look at the way they dress.
Of course they did it."

I thought, "golly, I'd better
stay in the house then

because it's not safe
for me out there then."

I think that's a real typical
scenario people go through.

Uh, they first join the list
is that... "I watched
'paradise lost.'

I also wore black t-shirts.
I was an alienated teenager."

And I think that might be
the initial attraction
that brings people in.

But I think what's really
important and that brings
people together

to the point where you
travel across country

to come
to Jonesboro, Arkansas,

on your week of vacation

are the more important issues
such as justice,

such as a corrupt,
incompetent police force

and justice system
working in a vacuum

here in Arkansas
when nobody's watching.
That's why I'm here.

I don't want them to think
they can operate in the dark,

kind of like
a mushroom, and grow.

No one enjoys sentencing
somebody to death.

Nobody enjoys having
to go through the...

the trial.
That's why they call it
a "trial," I guess,

because it is

heart-jerking

and difficult to deal with.

When you read those words
imposing the death sentence,

I don't know
if it was visible,

but there was a catch
in my throat.

I could feel it and certainly
you've had those feelings.

It's hard.

All right, gentlemen,
if you'd have your clients
stand, please.

All right, Mr. Echols,
the jury having found you
guilty of capital murder,

three counts in the death
of Michael Moore,

Chris Byers
and Steve branch,

you are to be
immediately transported

to the Arkansas
department of corrections,

where the director or his
duly-appointed and designated
representative will...

On the 5th day of may of 1994,

will be directed to cause
to be administered

a continuous
intravenous injection

of a lethal quantity

of an ultrashort-acting
barbiturate

in combination
with a chemical paralytic agent

into your body
until you are dead.

There's never been a moment

that I've ever doubted

that we did not arrest
the right individuals.

Never in my mind.

There's never been a doubt.

I can go to bed
at night and sleep,

knowing that I did my job
and did it well.

If there was a doubt
in my mind,

I would still be
on the police department

and I'd still be
working the case.

This is detective Bryn Ridge

of the west Memphis
police department

conducting an investigation

of the circumstance
of triple homicide

case file number
9305-0-6-6-6,

currently in the office with

Jessie Lloyd Misskelley, Jr.

What occurred while
you were there?

What did he hit him with?

Well, I was telling them,
you know, I don't know
nothing about that.

And they just kept on
egging it on, egging it on,
egging on.

Finally I just...
just said something where they
would just leave me alone.

Finally I told them, you know,
I chased them and everything

and caught them
and brought them back.

But none of that happened.

You know, you just...
you can't kill nobody

and don't leave no evidence.
You can't do it.

You know, I don't
care who you are,
you cannot do that.

You know, there was no blood,
no fingerprints,

no nothing
at the crime scene.

You just can't
kill nobody like that.

I don't care if you're...

A genius or nothing,

you just can't do that.

Inspector, let's talk about
the things that Jessie told you

that are just
absolutely incorrect.

Now on page 9
of his statement,
inspector Gitchell,

Jessie says that the murders
took place around noon.

How did you know
that was incorrect?

Because the boys were...
the young boys were
still in school.

Did at any time when he was
telling you these things

that you knew
were incorrect,

did it ever occur
to you that what he was
telling you was false?

His entire story was false?

Uh, Jessie simply
got confused.

This is a classic example

of how police can produce
a false confession.

They threaten Jessie.
They tell him that
he knows things,

that they know he knows.
They use the polygraph.

They tell him that he's flunked
the polygraph when he didn't.

They use that to convince him
that his situation is hopeless.

They upset him enormously
by showing him these
horrible photographs

of these dead children.

And then they give him
the option

of being with the bad guys,
with the consequences of that,

or joining the police.

And at this point,
all he wants to do

is get out
from under the pressure.

So now all he has to do is
agree with what they tell him

and that's how
they set it up.

Initially, they're going
for a false witness statement.

But once they have him talking,
it's not difficult

to get him to agree to things
that will make him appear to be

a participant
in the crime.

Out of the 100 or more people
that y'all talked to,

are you aware of anybody
other than the defendant

who told you
one of the victims

that had their
genitals removed

and one of them had cuts
to the side of the face

and there had been some
grabbing of the ears?

Uh, there was no one else
that mentioned

those particular injuries.

Was there any kind
of emotional response?

He had tears
coming down his eyes.

- Had you all yelled at him
or been mean to him...
- No sir.

...or threatened him
or promised him anything?
Done any of those things?

- None of those things
happened whatsoever.
- All right.

I was down at the prison
a couple weeks ago
seeing Jessie

and he tells me that you
come down about every Sunday.

Yeah, I try to boost
his morale up.

Just hang in there for me.
We're doing everything we can.

Sometimes it seems that
things are kind of progressing
at a snail's pace

but that's unfortunately
the wheels of justice.

- There is no justice.
- Well, I got to tell you
that I had to ask myself

whether I still wanted
to be a lawyer.

But it just lit
a bigger fire under me

and made me want to get up
and fight that much more.

Well, they didn't let you
present your case

up there in court,
I noticed that.

But we've got to have hope.
Without hope we don't
have a chance.

I made a promise
to that kid of yours

that I'd never
give up the fight

and I don't
intend to do that.

Maybe the quickest way to get
Jessie out of that prison

is to catch a killer.

Yeah well, I think everybody
knows who done it.

But the... ain't nobody
saying anything.

Leveri
if you wouldn't mind,
can you all... you three,

tell us how...
what the Genesis of the list
and the website and everything.

How you came to create it?

I saw the movie...
I got an advance screener

because I work for
an advertising agency.

And we worked
on the key art,

which is like
the movie poster art.

So I saw it about
three or four months
before it actually aired.

We saw the film together,
Kathy and I.

And we immediately saw it
and said, "oh, gosh, burk
would probably like this."

Actually not like it.

But, uh... so we
handed it over to burk

and then burk took a copy
of it and watched it.

And I think about
four days later,

not only had burk
seen the film,

he'd already found a book
in a used bookstore
on the case.

And he called us up
and he says, "these guys
are innocent."

I got on this crusade

to find every scrap
of information I could.

And we got all the...
all the documents we could
get our hands on.

And it became
an obsessive type of...

like a collector's
type thing

where we were each...

we'd get another
tiny scrap of information

and we'd add it
to the archive on the web.

And we decided
to make it public too.

We wanted it to not just be
in our own little
filing cabinets,

but we said, "let's
give this to everybody."

After a while it
became apparent that

no one had actually
looked at evidence

and put together a scenario
that made sense.

And so we started doing more
research about, you know,

investigation and homicide
and forensics.

And we came across a website

that actually gave forensic
and investigative classes,

like criminal profiling
and homicide investigation

and that kind of thing.

So I thought it would help me
in understanding the case more
if I took these classes.

So I just started taking
the classes and...

And in doing so
I read all the articles

that Brent Turvey
had written.

He's the guy that
gives the classes through
"knowledge solutions"

and I liked
his philosophy.

It made sense.
It was about evidence.

It was criminal profiling
as it relates to evidence.

And I thought,
maybe this is what we need,

someone who could
take this evidence
and tell us what happened.

Because that's all
we want to know...

guilty or innocent
I just want to know.

So I called him up and I started
explaining the case

and he just said, "stop,"
you know, "get the lawyers.
Tell them to call me."

And so I did and then
the rest is history.

- Hey.
- Hi, Dan, how are you?

- Nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you.

This is my wife
and business partner Barbara.

- Nice to meet you, Barbara.
- Nice to meet you.

- She's taking my notes for me
so our hands can be free.
- Great.

What if I were to put you
over there by the easel
so you could use that?

Great! An assortment
of markers here for me.

I want to really thank you
for agreeing to meet me here

and talk about this.
I... I've been working

on this case for a long time.
It's been over four years.

And when I got
the email from Kathy
at the support fund,

for the first time
in a long time

I got to see
a ray of hope

for some justice and maybe
having this thing analyzed

and you don't how much
it means to us.

We didn't have
a budget to work with.

We didn't have access
to this kind of information.

We tried to get it,
but we just couldn't...

we couldn't
accomplish it.

And it's just...
uh, it's really...

it's really good to be able
to look at this stuff now

and analyze it,
even if it is four years later.

- Do you want to go right
and look at the...
- sure.

Okay, I brought
the crime scene photos.

In every other case
that I've worked on,

the crime scene photos
are always these very...

they're like
endangered species.
You know, you never see them.

The actual crime scene photos
are kind of spirited away

and what the defense
usually gets is nothing

or color photocopies
that are really bad.

In this case, I was
very surprised to receive

all of the actual
crime scene photos.

One of the cornerstones
of the prosecution's case

- was that this was
a ritualistic, satanic...
- Right.

...cult homicide.

Do you see anything here
from the crime-scene
characteristics

which would be
indicative

of satanism
or ritualistic homicide

by a cult or anything
of that nature?

Most certainly not.

There's a definite lack
of ritual element to this crime.

It's very, uh...
it's very unfocused

in terms of the nature
of the injuries.

It's very much
a reactionary type
of behavior, not ritual.

And these behaviors that we
see in this crime take time,

so it would not be
plausible

for a serial killer
or a satanic cult group

to grab these victims
because of the fact that

they are going to be missed
almost immediately

from the moment
that they are abducted.

And whoever dumped
the bodies here

knew that this place was here.
He knows the area.

This is not someplace
that you can just find being
a trucker off the highway.

You've got to know it's here.
You've got to be able

to walk in, dump the bodies
and walk out.

You've got to know
that this is available.

It's very clear to me
from the evidence

that, uh... but we can get
into that later...

that the offender
did know the victims.

Hello?

- This is the MCI operator.
- I have a collect call from...

- Damien...
- ...Who is in an Arkansas
correctional facility.

All calls other than
properly-placed attorney calls

will be monitored
and recorded.

All right.

- Am I on speakerphone?
- Yeah. Yep.

- Awwww!
- How you doing?

All right.

So there's like about 15 people
saying "hello" right now.

- Hello, Damien.
- Hello, grove.

Everybody's
saying "hello" now.

"Hi, hello, hello, hi."

How many of them
is it on there now?

25.

I just put in the call
for questions on the
discussion group.

Okay.

Beastie wants to know:

"I teach at a university
and tell my students
about your case.

What would you most like
them to know about you?"

That I am neither
a freak nor a monster.

Um, that I was basically
a victim of circumstance,

that anyone
could have end...

end up in the same situation
that I am in.

"You ever... does the reality
of being executed

ever bother you?
Like, do you ever think
that's gonna happen?"

I guess, yeah.
It... it bothers me sometimes.

It doesn't bother me
in the area of being
afraid to die.

What bothers me is leaving
so much left undone,

and that us three
being behind bars

or even sentenced to death

or being in prison
for the rest of our lives,

that is not going to,
in any way, bring
about justice,

because we didn't
kill those children.

I think it's pretty sad
that society can evolve

to the stage that it has,
yet still be barbaric enough

that it puts innocent
people like myself,
Jason Baldwin

and even Jessie Misskelley
in prison

and can even sentence you
to death

while the real killer
still walks the streets.

You know, here's where
I live today...

number 11.

An apartment somewhere
in the state of Arkansas.

That's good enough.

I came from
a real nice big home

with all the amenities
and luxuries that you could have

to what I like to call

"my humble modest
studio apartment;"

a giant 300 square feet;

a bedroom, a living room,
a kitchen and a bathroom.

But there's benefits to it.

It takes me five minutes
to vacuum,

five minutes
for the air conditioner
to cool the place down

and I don't have to walk far
to go to the bathroom.

So it's a good little spot
to live, to be by yourself,

to control your thoughts,
your emotions,

and to live the rest
of my life as god sees fit.

As I look at
all these dark clouds
roaming in on me today,

it can very easily
remind me

of may 5th, 1993.

This half was
a bright sunshiny day.

This half became
gloom and doom

and as the death
and destruction

rolled into
west Memphis, Arkansas,

and consumed
three babies' life
and killed them,

it's kind of like this
cloud front is rolling in

and cooling off today
and consuming me

as I stand here in the wind
amidst the storm.

And the storm
is what I have been in
for the last three years.

But thank god
there's a bright side
on the other side.

I've been down
in a lot of low valleys

and people have tried
to take me out,

but I'm still here,

Jessie, Jason, Damien.

Those names ring
in my ears daily

and I still hate you.

Forever and a day
shall I still hate you.

Byers, when he's
running around, cussing me

and telling me that I should
go to hell and stuff,

it seems like
he's play-acting.

You know, trying to divert
the attention...

trying to play
the role that he should be...
of an angered parent,

when really he's...
really I believe

he's the one
that did it.

The murders of three
west Memphis boys last year

shocked all of region 8.

During the trials
earlier this year,

we empathized with
the parents and relatives

of those little boys.

And because
of television,

we were able to see
and hear the emotions

those parents
were going through.

Now the parents
of one of the boys

find themselves once again
under public scrutiny.
Jenna?

Since the trials,
the Byers moved

from west Memphis
to Cherokee village.

Now they say they wanted
to start a new life,

but now they face
criminal charges.

They're accused of taking
$20,000 worth of property

from a neighbor's house.

Police have witnesses
who claim they saw the Byers

loading stolen items
into their pickup truck.

And when police searched
the Byers' house,

they found a few of them.

Mark and Melissa Byers face
additional charges

in their old home town.

West Memphis police have
13 warrants for the Byers

for allegedly writing
over $700 in bad checks.

The Byers also face
other charges.

When they moved
to Cherokee village,

the Byers became good friends
with their neighbors,

John and Donna Kingsbury.

Problems began
when Mark spanked
the Kingsbury's five-year-old.

I took the fly swatter
and I just...

on the...
just the plastic end,

just on the back
of his blue jeans.

I said, "now you get home.
You've been a bad boy."

But the Kingsburys say
the whipping bruised their son.

We did have to have
a restraining order

put on them, because I was
worried about my family.

Mark Byers' problems
began in July.

He's been charged
with contributing

to the delinquency
of a minor.

Police say he stood by
holding a gun

and allowed a teenaged friend
to assault John shaver, Jr.

According to a police report,

the teenager used a closed
pocket knife in his fist

to assault shaver.

The fight sent
shaver to the hospital
with a concussion.

Byers admits
the knife was his.

He also admits
there was a gun in his car.

The shavers say
Byers used the gun

to prevent bystanders
from stopping the fight.

I think
I'd be extremely...

Shaver's father
believes this raises

serious questions
about Byers.

There's a lot of people
that's talked to me about it,
which, I hate to say it,

but they think maybe he
might have had something to do
with the... those murders.

Mark Byers says
that's ridiculous,

but these charges
and the questions
they dredge up

may stick with
this family forever.

People are placing
a lot of emphasis on Mark

and could
he have been a suspect.

And there again
it's the same question
that was asked to me,

"did we pick Damien up
because he looked weird?"

Well, are we accusing
Mark Byers

because he has a ponytail
and looks a little weird

and he's a big kind of guy
and is kind of boisterous?

I mean, is that why
he's labeled as

having something
to do with it? No.

You have to look at the facts
and the facts are

the three that we arrested
and that have been convicted

are the ones
that did this.

Mark Byers didn't have anything
to do with this crime at all.

Who did you receive
this knife from?

I received it
from, uh uh...

how did I actually
receive it?

No, who did you
receive the knife from?

I received it
from, uh, Joe,

and the people
with HBO productions.

Here,
this red area here,

this is the shaft
of the penis

and here is where the scrotal
sack and testes should be

and they're missing.

So what we have is that
the skin overlying the penis

and the head of the penis
has been carved off.

It's gone.
It's not there.

You can see, this is probably
the single worst case

of sexual
mutilation I've seen.

This stab wound
right here?

This one right here.

It's a nice
elliptical shape there?

Nice stab wound
right there?

See those little
sort of abrasions

that come along the top there
and off the side there?

- Uh-huh.
- Those indicate movement.

Now that is either
the person stabbing
the knife in and twisting it,

or the person who is
being stabbed is moving.

And a lot of them, uh,
at all kinds of funny angles

mean to me that the kid
was moving around.

Dr. Peretti testified
at Misskelley's trial
in corning

that this could have
been done with a knife

or it could have been done
with a sharp piece of glass.

Two weeks later he testifies
that this someone

is someone who has a great deal
of knowledge of anatomy.

And that this penis is
skinned meticulously

- which would take...
- Right.

...a great deal of time
under laboratory conditions.

What can you
tell me about that?

On really close
examination...

this is why I brought you
the magnifying glass...

because I want you
to look right here.

You can see the impression
of the handle of the knife

as it is being plunged.
You see that little
squareness right there?

So whoever did this
went like this and grabbed it
and just went like that.

And that's how
they cut it out.

No precision, no accuracy,
no skill required to do that.

And actually, to me,
it's consistent with

a fishing knife that's got
the blade on one side

and the serrated top
on the other.

Because of the movement involved
and because of the depth,

that right there
is something that
only somebody

who is, like, really angry
is going to do.

This is not... this is not
an act of deliberation

or an act that's
well-thought-out
or well planned.

- Is it an act of
sexual gratification?
- I don't believe so.

I believe it's
an act of anger.

Mr. Byers, I need
to ask you about

defense exhibit
number e-6,

this particular folding
lockblade kershaw knife.

- If I can approach
the witness, your honor.
- Yes.

So on January the 26th,
did Gitchell tell you,

"let me explain
a problem we had

and you need
to answer this for me,

we have found blood
on this knife"?

I don't remember if
he said there was or not.

Did you have any idea how
human blood was on that knife?

Well, yes,
I would have an idea.
I cut my thumb.

All right, do you
recall stating,

"I have no idea,
no idea

how it could have
any human blood on it"?

- Do you recall
giving that answer?
- Yes sir.

Then do you recall stating,
"I don't even remember
nicking myself with it,

cutting the deer meat
or anything"?

- Is that the answer you gave?
- Yes sir.

And is that the truth?

I might not have
remembered it at that time

when he was
questioning me

but I could have remembered it
later on in the day

- and talked to him about it.
- Okay.

Mark Byers, everywhere he goes
trouble follows him.

Didn't him and his wife
break in this house

and get these statues
and all this stuff?

Yeah, and then they just
got slapped on the wrist.

And he can get into as much
trouble as he wants to get into

and they just never
do anything to him.

And he's apparently not
that great of a person

because from hearing
people talk about

places that
he wants to live

or houses that
he wants to get,

the neighborhood
freaks out

and they don't want
him living there.

I'll tell you what really
worries me about Mark Byers

is he's got
a thing for knives,

like the knife
he gave to HBO.

And then later on

he gives
a teenage boy a knife.

If you had a child that was
brutally murdered by a knife,

you wouldn't be
giving another kid

a knife to fight
another kid.

And then hold a gun on him
and make him do it?

I mean...

Well, I wouldn't
go far enough to say

that Mark Byers murdered
these little boys,

but I think he had
something to do with it

and I just can't
figure out what.

And I think
there's a lot of people
that probably do know.

I had three or four people
come to my house

to look me up to tell me
that they believe that
my son was innocent

and that they personally
knew Mark Byers,

and that they believed
that he was capable

of doing
a crime like that.

And they said they had
been to the police,

but the police
wouldn't listen.

And I feel really bad about
what happened to Melissa Byers

because it concerns me

that maybe
she found out something

that she shouldn't have.

And I'd like to know
what really happened to her.

I wish you could have been here
to hear me sing lately.

He liked to hear me sing.

I think
his little Christmas tree
will stay there real well.

It's in there tight enough.
I don't think the wind will
blow it over or anything.

Come here and kneel
down here by me.

Oh god, why did you
let this happen?

Please help us through it.

God, please help us
through this.

These are
for you, Melissa.

I know how you love
red roses, baby.

This is all
I can do for you.

I know your heart
was broken.

I know you couldn't stand
the death of your child.

But, oh god, I wish
you hadn't left me.

You remember when we were
on our honeymoon,

how happy we were?

We worked together.
We ate together.

We went everywhere together.

We weren't
husband and wife,

we were best friends.

I loved you
with all my heart.

You remember when we opened
our jewelry store?

We had finally
accomplished something.

Had two sons doing good,
a nice house,

a nice business,

two dogs and a cat.

Just an average family,

trying to live our lives

the best we could.

I can never put into words
how much I loved you.

You were
everything to me.

You were my life.

I lived to see
you smile.

Those animals killed you.

They're evil animals
and they killed you

and I blame them
for your death.

And all for you morons,

infidels and fools

that think that I had
anything to do with it,

go to hell!

Go to hell!

I loved my wife more than
any man could love his wife

on the face of the earth.

I'd have died for her.

I took care of her.
She was my life.

I didn't do anything
but love her.

And for all you sick
son of a bitches out there

that think I had anything
to do with her life,

go to hell!

Go to hell.

Think what you might,

but you can kiss my ass!

I can't understand

why exactly people are
glossing over the obvious

when it comes to Byers
and the death of Melissa Byers

and all the things
that Byers has said and done

since this trial.

I think maybe
for the general public,

it's not quite
as scary to believe

that bloodthirsty satanists
were out murdering children

as it is to believe that parents
are actually murdering
their own children.

Now you're... you're aware
that you're here to take
a polygraph test today?

- Yes sir.
- And this is concerning
the deaths of three boys...

- Yes sir.
- ...At west Memphis in 1993?

- Yes sir.
- Okay, you're also aware
that this... a record,

an audio and video
record is being made
of this procedure?

- Correct, sir.
- You don't have any
problem with that?

- No sir.
- If you do, I want
to know about it now

because I don't want
anything bothering you.

I don't have
any problem with it.

Okay, that sounds
good to me.

Mark, what we're
going to do today,

we're going to talk about
what happened in west Memphis.

We're going
to talk about you,

- where you come from
and who you are.
- Okay, sir.

What's your name...
your full name?

John Mark Byers.

- B-y-e-r?
- E-r-s, yes sir.

Okay.

What about your relationship
to Christopher?

Uh, he was
my best buddy.

Did you all...
did you all have disputes,

like all father and son
have, I'm sure?

Well, in the beginning,
of course, he was little.

But when he got up
to four or five,

- he started having
behavior problems.
- Mm-hmm.

And Melissa didn't know
what was wrong with him.

I didn't know what
was wrong with him.

In hindsight now,
I can look back and say,

"boy, if I had known that,
I'd have never spanked him

or I'd have never
given him time out

or I wouldn't have done
anything like that."

You say you spanked him.
What was your intent
when you spanked him?

- Was it your intent
to hurt him?
- Oh, no sir.

- To discipline him?
- Discipline him.

- Did you ever hurt him?
- No sir.

Son, I know there's
thousands of eyes

watching what
I'm going to do.

I know I made mistakes.
I'm not a perfect father,

but I know I loved you
with all my heart.

And I know I tried to keep you
from getting hurt.

I know the times I had
to spank you or punish you

it was 'cause
I loved you, son.

I loved you and I didn't
want anything terrible
to happen to you.

With your knowledge
of the amount of blood
that was lost,

from... not only Chris Byers
but these other boys

who've had some pretty...
they're gonna bleed as well,
won't they?

- Oh, yes.
- Okay.

Do you have an opinion
as to whether or not

you could clean up
that amount of blood

at a scene in the dark?

Do you have an opinion
as to that?

I think it would be
quite difficult to do,

to have injuries
of this nature

without having any blood.

I mean, that's...

I would question that...
about the blood.

One of the bodies was

discovered in this area
right here.

There's a place up
there on the hill

where those two trees
grow together
right there.

- Mm-hmm.
- That was one of the other
reference points

on the crime-scene
diagram.

The prosecution,
their theory was

that the murders occurred
here in the creek bank.

And that actually...

that actually the homicides
took place here

on this little
kind of plateau area.

And that the defendants

threw water up on the bank
and washed all the blood away.

The water was
about this high.

And the theory
being that the water,
it would hit the bodies

- and wash the blood
back into the river?
- And wash away the evidence.

Okay.

I'm not sure exactly
how that would work,

or why they would think
it would work.

Unless they had someone
throwing water at the same time

the, uh, castration...

you can use a garden hose
on the bodies

and you wouldn't get
all the blood away.

That's like... there would
have been so much blood,

the amount of blood
at this crime scene,

if this had been the place
where Chris Byers alone
was emasculated,

there would have been
so much more blood
than that.

Plus they wouldn't have
been able to see it.
It would have been

an incomplete job.
So this is only
a disposal site.

Two of the kids did die here
because they were put in
the water and they drowned,

but this is
a disposal site only,
not a primary crime scene.

I'd have to say
that the making

of the film
"paradise lost" was...

was a new situation
for the court

and I'm sure for all
of the lawyers involved.

I think I had indicated
to the producers earlier

that if either the defense
or the prosecution had objected,

there wouldn't have been
any filming in the courtroom.

But if I had the decision
to do over again

as to whether
a documentary was made,

I probably
would not allow it.

- Tim.
- Well, Beth, right now
the new attorneys,

the appellate attorneys
for Damien echols

are conducting a hearing
inside this courtroom.

They have on the stand
a lawyer who represented

one of Echol's
co-defendants at trial,

uh, a few years ago.

What they're
trying to do

is establish that
the trial lawyers in this case

who represented
Damien echols

were ineffective,
that they were incompetent.

The main argument is that
they had a conflict of interest

because they agreed
to cooperate with filmmakers

who were making
a documentary about the case,

an award-winning documentary
called "paradise lost."

It was produced by HBO.
The argument these attorneys
are going to make

is that because Damien echols'
trial lawyers

made an agreement to cooperate
with those filmmakers...

and the allegation is
that they accepted money
from those filmmakers...

that that created
a conflict of interest

which made them
incompetent and ineffective

to assist Damien echols
at trial.

We expect that when
the prosecutors cross-examine

the lawyers who represented
Damien echols,

those lawyers
will testify that

they did not make a deal to take
money from the filmmakers.

That the agreement was that

the filmmakers would provide
money for a trust fund

for the defendants,

that the money did not
go to the attorneys.

It was not
for the attorneys

and it did not create
a conflict of interest.

That will be the argument
the prosecutors are
going to draw out

to try to make sure this
conviction stands up.

I think one of the ironies
about this motion is that

a lot of the lawyers
who are involved in it now,

Ed Mallett,
Barry Scheck, Bob Fogelnest,
high-profile lawyers...

never would have
heard of this case before
the documentary came out.

Okay?

Okay.

Okay?

Can you tell me much about
your interview with him?

My interview with him?
Yeah, you know I'll
send you a...

I can send you a copy
of the piece we did,

- based on the interview.
- Really? Man, I'd love
to have it.

It's basically, you know,
we talked about death row,

what it's like to be
on death row, et cetera.

- Um, you know...
- was his hair still long then?

Oh, yeah, his hair was
like down to here.

Yeah. That's what
it looked like when
he was here last.

I guess they wanted
to clean him up

and make him
look presentable.

- He said that
wearing a white shirt...
- he had long fingernails too.

He said wearing
a white shirt really
gave him a headache,

so I know it's
just killing him sitting
there in the courtroom.

He said white was
on the good side

and he liked to stay
on the dark side.

He didn't
say that to me.

When you were going
through the treatment

that you were going through
that led you to file that suit,

how did you finally get
to the point where you
did file it,

talk to the lawyers,
et cetera?

I don't really even know.

I mean, it's...

Umm...

One day you wake up
and you figure out,

"what's the worst thing
they can do to you?

Kill you?"

I mean, I'm sitting here
on death row anyway.

What else were
they going to do to me?

You don't have
anything to lose

when you're
in a situation like that.

I went to see Damien
yesterday.

And for the first time
in four years, I got
to touch him.

I got to hug him.

And it was hard to believe
how much he had grown...

taller... he was at least
a head taller than I was.

I can't believe you
had to go all that time

without even being able
to give him a hug.

He's 20-something years old
but he's still my baby.

And that's what
it felt like when I put
my arms around him.

And then he sat down.
You could tell he was
really nervous

because he's been out...
by himself for so long.

Yeah.

He was having
a really hard time
being around people.

I was allowed
to visit with Jason
after he was sentenced

and it was the first
contact visit we had
had in a year.

It was just...
it was thrilling
to be able to hug him

but then I had to let him go
and go to this horrible place

for something he didn't do.

When I start thinking about

what all they
go through in prison,

my mind... I just
can't handle it.

You know, I just
start freaking out

when I try to start imagining
what Jason's life must be like

or Damien life's
must be like.

I heard a lot of stuff
that had happened to Damien,

but it's really
really hard to deal with.

You're in a position
where you can't do anything.

And if you stop
and think about it very much,

some of the things
that are done to him...

It-it... I think it could
make you lose your mind,

knowing that something
like that's being done
to your child.

Because what's happened
to them in prison,
it's gonna...

it's gonna affect them
for the rest of their lives.

When they come home,
it will never be...

it'll never be
like it ever was.

Because these...

these boys were
just children too.

Whenever these
little boys were murdered,

our boys were
just children too.

I never knew what
hell could be like

until these
last four years.

My whole life
has changed.

I lost my home,

my job.

Nothing seems
to matter anymore.

Kind of like that song.
I got a song I dedicated
to Jason.

It's "nothing else matters"
by Metallica.

That's my song to him,
because really,

I feel like most of the time

nothing else matters to me
but getting Jason home

and I just don't
know how I do it.

Damien, when our
visiting time's over

he always stands up
and puts his hand
against the glass

for me to put mine
against his.

We're not actually touching,
but we are.

It's in the heart anyway.

♪ So close
no matter how far ♪

♪ couldn't be much more
from the heart ♪

♪ forever trusting
who we are ♪

♪ and nothing else
matters. ♪

If you could speak
to the families

of these kids
who think you did it,

you know, what would
you say to them?

I don't know.

If I could talk to the families
of the victims right now,

I don't know really
what I'd say.

Just... they were led
to believe by the police

that we'd done it
and so I understand
that they hate us,

you know, hate me,

but I didn't do it,
you know.

I didn't have
anything to do with it.

I'm sorry that
your kids are dead.
I'm sorry about that.

I'm really
sorry about all that

'cause I don't have a kid,
but if I was my little brother,

I'd be real angry
at whoever had done it.

But all I ask is

y'all go back
and look at the evidence.

Just stop and think and don't
let your emotions about it all

get to your head.

Just stop and think
and look back at the evidence

and look where
the evidence does point.

And ask yourself,

"now who do you think
really done it?"

You know, because...

It was a great tragedy
that your kids was killed,

but it's also
another great tragedy

that American citizens,
anybody in today's public

can just be picked up
for a crime they didn't commit

and be convicted of it
without no evidence.

That's another tragedy.

On this particular case

you have the fortune
of having what appears
to be bite-Mark evidence

right there on the face that
was not originally mentioned,
documented or what have you.

But these type
of bite marks are...
there are two kinds...

wait a minute.
Are you talking
about bite marks

- on the outside
of this victim's face?
- That's right.

- Not superficial
bite marks...
- No.

...on the inside of their mouth
caused by their own teeth?

Not superficial
on the inside caused
by their own teeth.

There are what appears
to be bite marks

all over certain parts
of these children's bodies.

Well, did he miss that?
Or did he...

- I don't remember seeing it.
- It's not in the
autopsy report.

And the great thing
about bite-Mark evidence is
bite-Mark evidence is like...

it's just as good
as a fingerprint
and it's better than DNA.

Because bite-Mark evidence
indicates a specific person

committing a specific behavior.
The bite Mark indicates

that you bit somebody
at a certain spot
at a certain time.

So if we have somebody biting
this individual here...
a certain person...

we have a specific behavior
tied to a specific person.

So that's
the best kind of evidence,
as far as I'm concerned

for this type of crime.

Whenever you have teeth marks,
it's typically...

if you were to show this
to an emergency-room pathologist

who'd seen a lot of these,
he would arrest the mom,

because it's more
typically resembling

the type that's involved
in cases of child abuse.

We have a mother
of a victim who is
no longer alive.

- Right.
- Melissa Byers has been dead
since march of '96.

I don't see any reason
why her autopsy

should still be...
be sealed.

They claim they
are still conducting
a criminal investigation,

but, uh, how long
does it take to...

again in this
particular case,

since what
you've told me is that
the death is undetermined,

they can keep it open
as long as they want.

But the problem is,
if they are keeping it open,

that means they don't know
whether it's a suicide
or a homicide

and that means
it's undetermined which means
it's an equivocal death.

But it's important to this case.
And the reason I originally
asked you for the materials

is because I'd like
to know if there's a connection.
I'd like to see her wounds.

I'd like to see if
there's any wounds on her.

I'd like to see if
there's a connection between
this case and that case.

And the reality is that
I would like also...

Also if you get
a forensic odontologist
in here at any point in time,

they can yank her teeth
and see if they match

any of the bite-Mark
impressions.

Because we need to, at least...
if there's nothing wrong,
if there's no connection,

we need to establish
that there's no connection
to these deaths.

I've wondered why
it's been almost two years...

and I have called everybody
they've told me to call

about getting
a death certificate

or an autopsy report on my wife
and they won't release it.

The newspaper people
have called... they won't
release it.

They want to say
it's still pending.
What's still pending?

If they can't say
cause of death wasn't
anything but a heart attack,

all they've said was
a prescription medication
that she was taking

was found in her bloodstream
and a foreign drug.

They never would release
what the foreign drug was.

I don't know.

I mean, I don't know
what caused her to die.

They won't tell me.
And I think that just
gives people suspicion.

The police up there,
they didn't care about us.

They didn't care
about her dying

and they're still
throwing gas on the fire

because if there
ain't nothing to hide,

why won't they give me
the paperwork that
I'm entitled to?

Either that or bring
charges against you...

- either one or the other.
- They ain't got no charges

to bring against me because
I didn't do nothing.

I know that, I know.
You know, I ain't got
a doubt in my mind on that,

but that's... that's...
like you said, that's
not the point.

Two years and they
won't release it.

They're just holding it open
so people can sit out here

and draw their
own conclusions

and tell it like
they want it to go.

Because people would rather
talk any day of the week

about somebody else
than sit and talk about
their own problems.

I mean, what do you
think it makes me feel like
when I hear people say,

"I believe you
killed Christopher.

I believe you
had something to do
with killing Melissa"?

I can't tell you
how it hurts.

Man, it tears me apart.

And go into a grocery store,
go anywhere,

and I'm subject to walking
into a fool who'll say that.

You all been with me
when people walk up and say
"don't I know you?

- Wasn't you
the baby-killer on TV?"
- Yeah.

Well, I've been
in two fights myself
over it.

What was it?

Well, at a bar one night
there in marked tree,

a dude come up and said,
"yeah, that sorry Mark Byers.

Hell, them boys
didn't kill his kid.
He was in on that.

He was probably
the ringleader on it."

Uh, excuse my French,
but I stomped his ass
right there on the spot.

You know, I've had
an ignorant woman,

she was a schoolteacher
there in west Memphis,

taught Jessie Misskelley
in his G.E.D.... You know,
his alternative school?

- Yeah.
- And this woman showed
the movie "paradise lost"

and talked about
how that I was basically
guilty for it,

and that the police
and everything framed them three

and there was no cult,

and Jessie Misskelley
was a good loving boy

and just such a kind person.

Those three animals
took my baby from me

and they took
my wife from me.

And I self-destructed.

And, buddy,
I'm telling you about it,
I got downright mean.

The pain
they've caused me,

it cost me physically
and mentally

and all the fights
and all that I got into

because I went
to looking for them,

and the bricks that
hit me in the head

and the knives that cut
these scars on my face

and the jerks that
had the privilege

of knocking teeth
out of my mouth,

well, that's because
of them three animals

that provoked me so
to get into a violent
rage like I had.

And that's what it cost me...
a whole set of teeth.

But that's all right
because they're gonna
pay for it.

And I can't imagine
why people

want to say the things
that they say about me.

I mean, what do
you all think?

Why the hell do people
want to try to accuse me
of being involved in that?

You've always been
an out-front person.

You've been a leader,
not a follower.

I was not meaning
to be an individual...

Well no, but you
could have been.

I mean, you could be mean
when mean gets mean.
You can get mean.

- You've always been that way.
- People just don't know you.

It's the only reason
they're talking like
they are about you.

Because if they
knew anything about you,
they wouldn't be saying it.

And I can't tell you all how
much I love you, you know,

for being closer than a brother,
but always being there for me.

I've been there
and I'm gonna be there

- and I'll be there until...
until hell freezes over.
- I know you will.

If you
wasn't worthy of it,
it wouldn't be there.

- You've got my word on that.
- You ain't giving me nothing
for nothing, are you?

- No, sir.
- Ain't nothing
for free, is it?

- Huh-uh.
- And have I paid my dues?

- Yes sir, you sure have.
- You're damned right.

- You damned right.
- And the world needs to know
about it, don't they?

- They sure do.
- They need to know the truth

and that's what
we's sitting here
talking about is the truth.

- That's right.
- And the devil-worshipping
son of a bitches

are the murderers
out there, not the victims.

- There it is.
- And there's three families
that's victims.

And I'd just like
to catch those three.

If you ever get within arm's
reach of this arm right here,

you a paid-for
son of a bitch.

You've got
my word on it.

Damien, how much hope do you
have of a favorable ruling?

I know this is
hard on you.

Why is it so important
for you to be here,

for your son to see you
in the courtroom?

There's no reason
for them to be here.
They were falsely accused.

The west Memphis
police department
did a botched job

just to get
these boys arrested.

Somebody had
to be arrested.
It's ridiculous.

- Do you feel like the HBO film
affected this case?
- I think it helped a lot.

- You think it helped?
- Yes, I do.

- It helped your son?
- Yes, I think so.

- Why's that?
- How is that?

Um, I just think that it
shows enough of both sides

to where

you can kind of see
a personal side of Damien.

Do you feel like
that his attorneys,

that his former attorney
did not do an adequate job?

Well, from what I'm seeing,
it looks like he didn't.

What is the personal
side of Damien?

- Um...
- You know him
better than anyone.

He's very much
like myself.

He usually keeps
to himself

and he doesn't really ever
bother anyone.

We're both very private.

So what do you hope happens
when this wraps up?

I hope everyone can
see this for the joke
that it really is.

Okay.

Five seconds.

3:30, Tim, 3:30.
Two seconds.

Daniel stidham...
he defended

one of the three individuals
convicted in this case,
Jessie Misskelley.

Thank you for being with us.
All right, Damien echols...

Uh, he received money
which was supposed to aid
in his defense.

How does this harm his trial,
his right to a fair trail?

In my opinion,
Gregg, it didn't.

I-i... I personally don't
subscribe to that point of view.

Gregg Jarre interesting.
Let me turn now to ray brown

who is a veteran criminal
defense attorney and our
colleague here at court TV.

Is there a conflict
of interest here?

Mr. Stidham, who was
involved in it himself,
doesn't think so.

Let's get to the real question,
Gregg, which is that

because this country is,
in many areas, so strongly
in favor of death penalty

that we underfund the defense.
I think Mr. Stidham can tell you

that he earned
something like $19 an hour

for his representation
of his client.

The lawyers for echols
got a little bit more,

but nowhere near
the money needed...

and $1,000 limit
on money for experts

in a case that
is fairly saturated
with scientific proof.

So this is the kind
of case in which

we have to look at the question
of whether the defendants
were given a war chest.

Because it's really
the argument of the defense here

that, in fact,
the lawyers for echols

were forced to make some kind
of an agreement that involved

letting their client's
conversations be overheard

because they didn't have
the resources to fight the case.

Not something to be lightly
tossed away or endangered.

Daniel stidham, if you had
had a lot of money,

what would you have
done with it?

We would do some of the things
that we're doing right now

with regard to
the forensic evidence.

Jarre
all right, Dan Stidham,

anybody who defends somebody
in a capital death penalty case,

I take my hat off to you.

You're deserving
of many thanks for that,

regardless
of the circumstances,
guilt or innocence.

And thank you
for being with us.

We appreciate it.

How can the medical examiner,

when he conducts an autopsy,
how can he miss

a bite Mark on... on...
on the victim's face?

The reality is with any
kind of physical evidence,

with any kind of physical
imprint of evidence
like that

or pattern injuries like that,
you have to really be trained
to look for them.

If you're not looking for it
you're not going to find it.

And in this particular case,
you have a preponderance
of bite-Mark evidence

that seems very good
and you're likely to get
a very good result off of.

Bite-Mark evidence is the kind
of evidence that got Bundy

and that's the kind of evidence
that's going to get

the individual who's
responsible for these crimes.

We really have to be careful
to protect the information

that we have in that report,
and not disseminate it
to individuals

who are potentially
going to release it.

Because in my experience
in cases that I've worked on

when there's an offender
who finds out there's
bite-Mark evidence

that's potentially going
to be used against them,
even in prison,

they're going to be making
a visit to the prison dentist

and they're going to have
those teeth removed

because they do not want that
evidence linked back to them.

They know that
bite-Mark evidence

is just as good as a fingerprint
in a court of law.

Mark, are you married?

No sir,
I'm widowed.

My wife passed away
march 29th of '96.

I'm sorry to hear that.
March 29th of '96.

- Where was this at?
- In Cherokee village.

Cherokee village.
A natural death?

Uh, cause of death
undeterminable.

What do you...

do you have any
feelings about it?
I mean...

- Yes sir.
- What are they, if you want
to reveal it to me?

My wife had given up
her will to live

after our baby
was murdered.

And she just didn't
want to live anymore.

And she got
into an addiction

and I think the addiction
helped kill her.

- Drugs?
- Yes sir.

- What... what type?
- Dilaudid.

Have you had any other
problems with the police?

Not major, no sir.

You've had problems,
is that what you saying?

Oh well,
speeding tickets,

I got a d.W.I. One time
after my wife was murdered.

Uh, nothing
really major, no.

- No robbery, no stealing?
- Oh no. No felonies
or anything like that.

Okay.

From what I see,
what you're telling me is

you are not a hateful
mean person,

you're not the kind of person
who goes around

causing distress to people.
You don't steal. You don't...

you don't
go out of your way
to harm people...

- No sir.
- ...Or anything like this.

- I pretty much...
- and you said there was
maybe one time ever

that you had hurt someone
in a fight or something.

Oh, I'm sure.
In football games
I hurt people, you know.

Yeah, but you know
football's one thing,

but did you got out there
meaning to hurt somebody?

Oh no, I went
out there for the sport
of the game, you know.

If you do something,
I think that kind of comes
with the territory.

If you get hurt,
it comes with it,

now if somebody
intentionally
low-blocks you

or trips you to injure you,
that's one thing.

- Did you ever do that?
- No sir.

I played tight end.
I caught the ball
and ran.

Did you ever want
to hurt somebody?

Yes sir,
there's three people
right now I'd like to hurt.

With the exception
of those three people?

No sir.

There were a number of people

that looked like
good suspects initially.

Like a phone call
would come in

and you would
start checking on it

and it was like, hey,
we may have something here.

And then you'd find out,

well no, there's no way
this person could have done it.

So I mean, I think at the time
I referred to it as

"an emotional
roller coaster."

You just had ups and downs,
ups and downs.

And that just
wears you out.

I know that
for a period of time,

a couple of weeks
into the case...

maybe two to three weeks
into the case,

at that point I was
personally feeling like

Damien was
responsible for this.

And I got to the point
where I could see him

at the doorway
of my bedroom.

I'm sure a lot of that
had to do with

just being
exhausted physically
and mentally and no sleep.

But just really
really even becoming

a little paranoid
and terrified myself.

I think Gary gitchell has
an overactive imagination.

I believe deep in his heart
that he knows

that we did not commit
those murders.

But now it's too late for him
to come forward and say that...

to say he made a mistake.
And at this point in time,

I mean, that would... it's just
something he can't do now.

So I think he's kind of been
playing this part for so long

that now
he probably believes

this part he's
been playing himself.

He's fooled himself
into thinking it's true.

Okay, here's the question:
Bill says,

what did you think
of "paradise lost"
and your haircut then?

That haircut was
actually given to me

about five minutes
before the hearing,

by a woman
in the back room

with a pair
of plastic scissors.

I was not to blame
for that haircut.

As for the movie itself,

it was
very emotional for me.

I think I went through
the entire range of emotions

while I was watching it.

I think it made me
a little homesick.

- Really?
- Yeah.

Was it weird
to see Jason again?

Yeah, he didn't even
look like I remembered,

I guess because
so many years have gone by

that I had begun to forget
what he looked like

until I saw him on there.

And when I was
looking at that,

we were both children.
We were still kids.

The entire way that I
carried myself back then,

my entire demeanor back
then as compared to now,

I think I've changed
a very great deal.

Did you feel roped
into doing "paradise lost,"

forced into it?
Or did you pretty much
trust these guys?

No no, I wanted
to do it.

You know, at the time
we needed some kind of
positive publicity

or at least some way,
some kind of forum

to express
what I wanted to say

to kind of combat just what
the prosecution was releasing

to the media, some kind
of objective thing where

I could actually
express something.

But I also did it because
I just thought it would be fun.

So you trusted
the filmmakers pretty much

to do a fair portrayal
of what was going on?

Yeah, I trusted them.
But at the same time
even if I didn't,

- what did I have to lose?
- This is true.

What did you
think of Byers?

I think Byers is probably
the fakest creature

to ever walk on two legs.

I don't think there's
a true thing about him.

He puts on all these
false faces.

He'll act one way whenever
they have cameras on him

and another way
when he's by himself.

He has about
30 different faces.

So seeing him
in the movie didn't change

how... any of your opinions
about him then?

Well, I think it reinforced

the opinions that
I have about him.

I still believe
with all my heart

that he is the person who
killed those three children.

- And...
- Alone?

I have no sympathy
for Byers.

I'm sitting here
on death row for a crime
that he committed.

That in itself is
enough to make me have
no sympathy for him...

but then also the fact that
he killed three little kids.

Do you think Melissa had
anything to do with it?

I don't think
she actually participated

in the act
of killing them,

but I think she participated
in covering it up.

I firmly believe
that she knew,

and I think that's
why she's dead now.

If you could say... if you
could give Byers a message,
what would it be?

I wouldn't say anything
to Mark Byers.

Mark Byers
is beneath me.

He doesn't even
deserve my contempt.

You butchered
my babies out here.

I swore that I'd stand
at your grave and cuss it.

Well, I'm doing it
a little bit early.

I'm going to Bury you
three bastards right here

and send you to hell.

This crime scene tape,

that come off of what they
stretched in front of me

when they found
my babies out here...

wouldn't let me by.

I thought it was
just fitting

to bring it back
to your memorial fund.

Jessie, you got
your flowers.

That's your head marker,
you animal.

To Damien...

Jason, there's yours.

You want to worship
the devil?

See him.
I'm going to give you
a farewell party.

Now we're going
to have some fun.

I'm going to try to help
send you on your way.

You done got
all of my blessings,
which aren't none.

What you think,
you ready to die?

Fire for fire

and death for death.

Live through this fire,
you animal.

What, it ain't hot enough
for you?

This is the ditch
that you killed them in,

do you remember?

You wanted to eat
my baby's testicles?

Burn, you son
of a bitch, burn.

Burn and go
to hell! Burn!

Can you remember screaming
and hearing them holler?

I stomp on your grave!
I stomp on your grave!

I stomp
on your grave!

Burn and go to hell!

Burn you like
you deserve to burn.

♪ Well, dolls of voodoo ♪

♪ all stuck with pins ♪

♪ one for each of us
and our sins... ♪

Looking at young people
involved in the occult,

do you see any particular
type of dress?

I have personally observed
people wearing, um,

black fingernails,

having their
hair painted black,

wearing black t-shirts,

sometimes they will
tattoo themselves.

Look at history.

Look at hundreds of years
of religious history.

There have been hundreds
of people killed

in the name of religion.

It is a motivating force.

It gives people
who want to do evil,

want to commit murders,
a reason to do what
they're doing.

West Memphis is
pretty much

like a second Salem, you know.

'Cause everything that
happens there... every crime

no matter what it is,
it's blamed on satanism.

This case has attracted
a lot of young people

that relate to Damien.

And it scared the hell
out of them so that's why
they want to be there.

And yet,
you've got to tell them,

if they dress in black, man,
that's not going to help
Damien at all,

'cause it's just going
to look like Damien has
a cult following.

We dressed in suits
and they still thought
we were in a cult.

So I mean if we get people
at the hearing

that insist on dressing
in all their goth glory,

then it's just going to confirm
everything that they think...

that there's still a cult,

that Damien's still controlling
the cult from prison.

I mean people were telling me
that stuff... I mean reporters.

I was asked by a reporter
if I was a member
of Damien's cult.

- Me too.
- And I'm standing there
wearing a suit.

I thought I was
dressed like a guy,

like a normal person,
you know.

But the, um... I think what
we were trying to do is

we don't want to give them
any fuel for that.

- That's nuts.
- I think they're sort of afraid
if they dress conservative

they're going to be
on the other side,
"the enemy side."

Like they have to dress
like Damien or something

if they want to be on his side.
I don't know what that is.

Well, look how he dresses
now in court, you know.

- He wears all white in prison.
- Yeah.

And when he goes to court
he's wearing, you know,
like, nice clothes.

I mean
he's grown up a lot.

A lot of people only know
Damien from the movie,

so they see these little bits
of Damien in the movie

and that's what they think
they're reacting to.

But they don't realize
that's, like, five years ago.

I want to remind you
this is a fundraiser

so I want you
to give from your heart
because these young men

are kind of counting on us.

And just for the record,
anyone... if you know someone

that hasn't been able
to make it here today,

or for whatever reason
left early,

if you'll remind them
this cauldron's going
to be available

for the next couple of weeks
to continue to add to.

I'm puttin' money in here
because I want Damien

to be able
to go to college
outside of prison.

I want him to go
to a real school.

Really soon.

And remember too that
he had the courage to say

he was wiccan in adversity

when he knew that
it would cost him a lot.

All of us who are here
are here because

we enjoy knowing

that there is
religious freedom,

hopefully somewhere,
that we all respect each other

for our beliefs, for our loves,
for everything that we have.

They wrote it off as something,
"we don't understand that.

It's got to be
the work of the devil."

Well, you know,
Wicca... Wiccans

don't believe
in the devil, okay?

The devil is
a Christian deity.

They use the devil...
or they believe
that the devil

is something that causes
them to do evil things.

And in the wiccan read,
in the wiccan tradition,
those folks believe

that you are 100% responsible
for your actions.

And they believe
in the law of three...

...Whatever you do
comes back on you threefold.

If you put out good energy,
that's coming back
to you threefold.

If you put out negative energy
and dark energy,

that's coming back
on you threefold.

That is what
the wiccan means.

I know that,
as a wiccan

that every religion
is important to me

and if I felt like...
even Christians...

that they were having
their right to be rel...

you know they couldn't
practice in their way,
I would defend that.

It's not about
just me being wiccan,

this is about how did this
affect three little boys

whose murderers, I personally
believe, went unfounded.

And there's three young men
who are in jail

and one of them's there
and he's on death row

just because he said
"I'm wiccan."

Can you explain to the ladies
and gentlemen of the jury

what... some principles
about the Wicca religion?

Um, it acknowledges
a goddess

in a higher regard
as a god

because people
have always said

"we're all god's children"
and men cannot have children.

Um, it's basically like

a close involvement
with nature.

Okay, here's the question:

"I was wondering what made you
go change your religion
back to catholic?"

I haven't changed
my religion to anything.

At this point in time

I don't really
make any distinctions

between religions anymore.

And they say that a lot
of people in prison find god.

Well, I never knew
god was lost.

And, um, I just...

I don't like to put a label
over myself anymore.

Did you ever?

Well, at one time
I didn't really mind

because I thought maybe
there was some sort of

distinction
between religions.

But then I realized
that there's not.

I think all religions
basically teach...

Your time limit is
about to be exceeded.

Your call will be terminated
in 30 seconds.

I think all religions basically
teach the same message

and I think
it's the people who...

who create all these dogmas
and strict rules

and try to enforce
this belief

that if you don't believe
the way they do,

that you're
going to suffer.

Have you forgotten
this face?

I hope not.

'Cause it's going
to come visit you

when you die
and look up from hell.

It'll be just like Lazarus
and the rich man.

Lazarus at Abraham's bosom,

the rich man
looks up from hell.

What's he do?

Beg for a drop
of water.

None was given.

You'll beg

'cause my baby shall put
his foot across your neck.

How do I know that?

Well, it's an easy song...
"the Bible tells me so."

And there's so much in here
that's in store for you.

If you don't have one,
rush out to your nearest
bookstore

and get one,
you lowlife.

Have the Gideons
mail you one.

Read it, live it,
believe it.

It is your destiny.

Hell awaits you.

- Who's going to talk?
- Burk's gonna talk here.

Okay, burk,
tell 'em what it is.

- We got everybody in here?
- Who am I telling?

We have most
of the people here.

Well, this... should
I just start talking?

Yeah, go ahead.

Okay, this is a... this is
a collection of postcards

that we've received from people
from all over the world

in support of this cause.

They've all written
"free the west Memphis three"

all over these postcards.

The goal is actually to deliver
this to the governor,

to show the governor the support
that these three have.

It's more like a... it's kind
of working as a petition

more than it is
anything else.

It's a way
for people to express
their concerns about this.

- Okay. Thanks a lot.
- Thank you.

You're watching KATV channel 7,
the spirit of Arkansas.

This is channel 7 news
at 6:00.

Did defense attorneys
sabotage Damien echols' case

by sitting on potentially
explosive evidence?

His new attorneys
think so.

Edward mallett says the men
who represented echols
in his first trial

not only botched the case
by selling the story to HBO,

but they failed to investigate
obvious leads.

Mallett also claims
that he has new evidence

of a human bite Mark
on one of the victims.

Judge David Burnett
granted his motion

to get bite-Mark impressions
from Damien's two codefendants.

Under cross-examination,
val price,

echols' previous attorney,

testified that he did
his best to represent echols.

But Brent turvey,
a forensic scientist,
disagrees.

He says price sat
on critical evidence,

namely bite marks he's found
on the victims' bodies.

That kind of stuff is like
absolute proof of who did this.

I mean if they can get bite
impressions, it's like...

- It's like a fingerprint.
- It's done.

They can identify
who it is, period.

- Or we can at least
exclude these three boys...
- Yeah.

...who that we have no question
that they're innocent.

So that's one way
of trying to prove that.

The three they got are
the three that did it.

You are entitled
to your opinion,

but to spread
your propaganda

that you believe
they are innocent,
I think is crap.

- Bite marks aren't propaganda.
That's solid 100% evidence.
- It's fact.

- It hasn't been proven they're
bite marks yet though.
- It has been.

And you're very convinced
100% they're guilty, right?

- No doubt.
- And you're 100% convinced
of your own innocence.

- So why don't you...
- no doubt in my mind about it.

Why don't you give
your bite impressions
to the defense?

Do you think
that I'm guilty,

that I had something to do
with murdering my son?

We're not saying
anything about that.

I don't know
if you had anything
to do with it.

I want to know
that you didn't,
and that would be

- by giving
your bite impression.
- Rule yourself out for it.

I've already been exonerated.
What else do I have to do?

The public's been
kind of suspicious of you.

What happened to Melissa?

I believe she died
from a broken heart.

But you were there,
so you saw something.

I was asleep beside her
and woke up and found her
passed away beside me.

There were no bruises,
abrasions, anything like that

of any foul play
whatsoever.

I've been
totally exonerated.

All charges or suspicion
of anything dropped.

Well, I do know there
was a toxicology report

and they talked about
actually quite a lot of drugs
that were in her system.

Yes, a lot
of prescription drugs that she
was taking, they sure did.

Also some prescription drugs
she wasn't taking.

She took like seven or eight
different types of medication

for being bipolar,
manic depressive,
post-traumatic syndrome.

And as far as
the other medication,

I'm as puzzled
about it as anyone.

I read in the newspaper...
it was actually
"the Arkansas times"...

- yes.
- Mara Leveritt said that there
were signs she was suffocated.

There were no signs
of suffocation or struggle.

She was laying
right there on the bed

when the paramedics
and all came in.

If someone published something
in the newspaper about me

that was suspicious like that,
that pointed the finger at me

and said I was this
and said I was that,

I'd want to prove
to somebody

that I had nothing
to do with it.

Okay, then tell me
what I have not done

to prove that I have not
been involved in any of it.

I have no problem
with a polygraph,
sodium pentothal,

being hypnotized,
bite marks or anything else,

which I've submitted
to every test they've asked,

every question they have asked
because I know my innocence.

They didn't have
bite-Mark impressions.

Did they take your
bite-Mark impressions?

I mean if you're
that convinced...

dental records.

You know, how could you
give your bite impressions

if you don't
have your teeth?

Maybe that's why you're
not so reluctant to do it.

Well, what if I told you that
the teeth that I had before

they were pulled or the teeth
that I had during it,

I know the oral surgeons
and all that did the work

and I would be glad
to sign a release

- for them to send my x-rays.
- Will you do that?

If need be.
Like I said, I've cooperated
with the police.

Would you do that for us
and send it to Dan stidham?

I won't do
a damn thing for you.

- Do it for Dan stidham.
- Do it for your kid.

Do it... just do it
to prove us wrong.

I don't have to prove
one damn thing to you.

If it turns out
that we're wrong,

we'll admit it,
I promise you.

Bend over and put
your head between your legs
and kiss your ass goodbye,

'cause you're
going to be wrong.

I think you all are
fighting a lost cause.

We're just trying
to get to the truth.

As a young boy
at the age of 13,

I started down many
of the wrong roads

that a lot of teenagers
will go down.

I remember the first
dollar I stole

was out of
my mama's purse.

The first people
I stole from were my parents.

Boy, it just went down a rough
and rugged road from there.

I can remember quite vividly
the day that I came to

from a comatose state.

I had overdosed
in my parents' home.

The next day,
they were on the phone

with my brother-in-law
and sister down in Jackson,
Mississippi.

Said, "will you all take him?
He's out of control.

We can't do
anything with him."

I saw my brother-in-law,
a big tall red-headed feller

and I said, "you don't know
all the wrongs I've done."

He said, "well, let me
show you over here."

He explained to me
about the apostle Paul.

He said, "don't get up there
and think that you're the worst
that's been."

He said, "the apostle Paul's
already took that privilege

and he says
I am the chief sinner."

So I thought,
"well, if the lord could
save the apostle Paul

and look beyond his sins,
he could save me too."

When this last tragedy
came into our life,

I stood by
my son's casket

and I said,
"oh god, help me.

Lord, I'm looking to you.

I want to be the dad
that stands in the gap,

that will stand for you

regardless to what
the world says.

I don't care.

Lord, I can't
do this on my own.

I need you."

And you know
there was a peace

that surpassed
all understanding

that came upon me
in that funeral home.

And I thought,
"thank god for that."

Thank the lord, for after
20-something years

of living like a savage
on this earth,

that he knocked
at my heart's door
and spoke to me.

And I'm so glad
I invited him in.

I'd want to know
who in the community

had access to those victims,
who would be trusted
with those kids.

I'd want to know what
the relationships were
in that community,

because who was killed
tells you why they were killed.

Look at how clear
of a line we're drawing

between the homicide
and the behavior of Chris...
of Chris Byers.

My feeling is
that this kid was
being abused.

Chris Byers
was setting fires.

He was playing
with his own excrement.

He was
beating up other kids,
picking fights.

He was, uh...
he was on Ritalin...

the doctor was saying he was
going to hospitalize him.

He was a kid who had
behavioral problems

and problems of being
defiant and violent and
aggressive and impulsive

for at least three years
that this neurologist
had been seeing him.

And this doctor
in his report states,

I'm giving this kid...
I've been prescribing
him Ritalin

for the past three years,
nothing's come of it.

Not that he...
I can't under...
he even says,

"it does not...
it does not make
sense to me.

I'm at a loss to explain why
his behavior has not abated."

'Cause what Ritalin is
it's a kiddie depressant.

What it does is it takes kids
and makes them...

it makes them more docile.

But Ritalin is a funny drug.
And it's my understanding...

and you'll have to talk
to somebody who really knows
what he's talking about...

but it's my understanding
that in adults,
Ritalin is like speed.

It has the exact
opposite effect.

So you think that maybe
the kid wasn't getting
the prescription...

if he was getting
the prescription,

he wouldn't have
been exhibiting
those behaviors.

And he was exhibiting
those behaviors.

So my only thought
would be that

he was not getting
his prescription.

They had a little book
they wrote in at school.

I still can't go through
a lot of his things.

It's still too painful.

- It's his journal.
- It's his journal.

And it was
on a Wednesday.

And he had written nothing
on the page except just

"I love my mommy."

And that's all
he'd written on the page.

And I know that
if he could come to me,

he would say,
"mommy, it's okay,"

and "I'm all right

and you need to be
all right too.

And I still love you
and I love daddy
and I love Ryan.

Now I want
you to pull yourself
together, mommy,

and I want you
to go ahead and live

because I'm okay now.
I'm okay.

I'm all right.

You don't have
to worry about me."

What was your relationship
with your wife?

Did y'all get along
pretty good?

As long as
I could keep her
from using, we did.

I could keep her off of it
a couple of months

and she'd go
back to it.

The first rehab
I put her in

was nine months
after we were married.

And I had a doctor
tell me then

that y'all just go ahead
and divorce her.

He said, "you know,
heroin junkies,
one out of..."

I don't know what
the statistic exactly is,
he said, "...ever stay clean.

This is just going
to cause you a lot
of pain and misery."

- Do you use drugs?
- No sir.

- Have you ever used drugs?
- Yes sir.

What did... what?

Marijuana.
I've tried coke,
some pills.

- Did you ever have a habit?
- No sir, never been...

you were just casually
experimenting?

Just experimenting
as a teenager and going
to college.

- Do you have a brain tumor?
- Yes sir.

Is it troubling you now?
Have you got it
under control?

Well, I’m... I'm under
a doctor's care.

- Are you taking medication?
- Yes sir.

What, what?

Is it, uh...
well, just tell me
what it is,

tell me what it is.
Tell me what it does.

- Uh...
- Is it for
a nervous condition?

- Yes sir.
- Okay.

It helps... it helps me
for my anxiety
and panic attacks

and the terrible
nightmares that I have

when I go to sleep
a lot of times.

Have you taken
your dosage today?

This one is
in the morning.

This one's in
the evening.

This one's
in the evening.

This one's
three times a day.

And this one's
three times a day.

The Xanax on me works like
Ritalin does on children.

What happens when you
don't take this?

I'll get real nervous
and just like my...

kind of paranoid feeling.

I'll just have
panic attacks.

Your doctor said
that you had a multitude
of psychiatric problems.

What does
he mean by that?

Have you been diagnosed
as having a particular,

some sort of
psychiatric condition
that has a name to it

that they've told you
about or anything?

Just from what she said,

"manic-depressive,
post-traumatic
stress syndrome."

You ever hallucinate?

Yes sir, I have.

I've seen a bug
on the floor
or something,

that's usually
when I'm in a manic
or a panic attack.

It'll seem like
I'll see things out
of the corner of my eye

and it's really
not there.

Have you ever believed
that you might have been
involved somehow...

- No sir, no sir.
- ...With those
little boys dying?

You've never had any
hallucinations or anything
dealing with that?

Only nightmares of hearing
my son crying for help

and I couldn't help him
'cause I didn't know
where he was.

Michael Moore was found
in this area right here
at the bottom of the screen.

Steve branch was
found just behind

where these trees
are in the stream.

And Christopher Byers was found
just below that body right here.

This is exhibit 22, which is...

...The body
of Michael Moore,

after removing him
from the water
from where he was found.

This is the body
of Steve branch.

Steve branch is
the young man that had
the injuries to his face.

Was it a particular
part of his face?

The left side
as you can see on there.

Defense exhibit 24 is
the body of Christopher Byers.

And what kind of injuries

did Chris Byers have
that you observed?

It looked as though
his penis had been removed.

When they were describing
the injuries to my son,

of course I didn't see
many of the photos

but just hearing
the description,

uh, it brought back things

that had happened
to me in my past

when... ahem...
I was tortured

and when I was attacked

and when I had...

had five people
beat me up and torture me,

but I lived through it.

And it brought back
all those feelings

and all those emotions
of it happening to me.

And it was like they were
reading off what happened to me

and I lived through it instead
of what happened to Christopher.

And it was just almost
like a mental thing.

It just, uh... I basically
just had a mental breakdown

from just, you know,
from hearing it.

It was like
a living nightmare,

reliving it
all over again,

except it wasn't me that
they were reading it about.
It was my son.

Uh, for my brain tumor.

It's been acting up,
giving me a lot of problems.

I just passed out
the other day

and busted my head open
in the house,

- blacked out,
hit the door facing.
- Jeez.

It's going to have to be
operated on soon.

- When are
you going to do that?
- Probably after Christmas.

Yeah?

- Is some of these
Jonesboro folks?
- Huh?

- Is this some
of these Jonesboro folks?
- I don't know.

- Or are they
all out from west?
- All over the place.

There's about six or eight
from Arkansas, I think.

- We got Ohio, we got...
- New Jersey.

- New Jersey.
- Illinois.

California.
Tennessee.

They say ignorance
spreads real fast.

Hey, why are you being so mean
to us now all of a sudden

- when the cameras are rolling?
- I'm not being mean.

You're so nice to us
when the cameras are off.

I'm not being mean to you.
I'm just speaking my mind.

- You are two people.
- No.

Yeah, you are.
You were my buddy last time.
What happened?

I never said you was
my best friend, you know.

Well, you were
nice to me at least.

Now you're telling me
I'm ignorant and an idiot
and all that.

It's like when
the cameras roll
I'm an idiot,

when they're not,
we're buddies.
What's up with that?

The truth hurts.
Might as well be
on film.

Okay, so this
is the truth?

So when the cameras stop
that's not the truth?

- No.
- That's the untrue part.

- No.
- Which one's true?

The way I act
around you is one thing.

Two things.
Which one's real though?

Which one
you think's real?

- I don't know.
- Well, I guess
it'll stay a mystery then.

Okay.

Mark, did you ever
give your bite impressions
to the defense?

There's not going
to be any need to do that.

I'll be taking
a polygraph very soon.

And when that's all cleared,
why should I give bite marks?

Just that
the bite marks would
exclude you absolutely.

- I think that would be good.
- Bite marks would
exclude me anyway.

I don't have any teeth.
These are dentures.

- The bottom ones
are too?
- Yeah.

So you're going to take bite
marks of two gum prints?

- Gimme a break.
- Or some
old dental records.

They were done before
the kids were murdered.

Strikes all
that theory out.

When did you
get your dentures?

'Cause I think I remember
on the steps you said that

that was a little...
you said it was after the kids.

It was right then.

You had your dentures
right when they died?

No, I've had them
since '93... the start.

'Cause last time
you said it was after.

- My mistake.
- How did you
lose your teeth?

Because I've heard you
lost 'em but not how.

Because I was taking tegretol
for my epileptic seizures.

And tegretol causes
periodontal disease

and they all started rotting
and falling and coming out.

They just fall out?
You didn't have
to pull 'em?

Yeah, you have
periodontal disease.

That's when the gums literally
move away from your teeth.

It's my understanding
that the odontologist

has now reviewed
bite-Mark impressions
from all three defendants,

compared them
with the bite Mark which

the odontologist
has identified.

And we can exclude the three
defendants who've been convicted

as the person who
made that bite Mark.

What's exciting
about this is

we now know that this kid
was bitten by someone

and this someone was not
any of the three defendants.

And it's just...
I wish and pray

that this information
would have been available
to us back at trial.

I think the result would have
been dramatically different.

This is the interesting thing:

Brent Davis, the prosecutor,
claims that

this is not a bite Mark.

But as frank peretti...
who performed the original
autopsy...

says, that this is
a bell-shaped pattern abrasion

that is consistent
with a belt buckle.

They're interpreting,
having... looking back
at this injury,

they're interpreting it...
and it's only a two-dimen...

this is a two-dimensional
surface.

If we were looking
at a three-dimensional surface

we would see that this
actually creates a circle

because the eye socket
curves in and curves under.

The two-dimensional photograph
makes it look like a bell shape.

Basically they're
going to put on two guys...

one of which did
the original autopsy

and missed
this bite Mark

and basically state that
this isn't a bite Mark.

The bottom line here is that
this is not legal trickery.

This is
hard physical evidence
of somebody else

committing
this crime.

I know you've been here
for just about every hearing.

Can you tell me
your opinion on this?

I think the fact that
there's bite marks and they
don't match the three

is pretty much proof
that they didn't do this.

And the big thing now is
that for the first time
in the history of this case,

we've got
qualified experts involved.
It's as simple as that.

What does he think
it will do to his case?

Well, he knows
he's gonna be out
of prison before long.

Eventually the truth
is gonna come out.

- Are you gonna
be here till the end?
- Yes.

I'm gonna be here
however many times it takes.

- Have you been
following the case?
- No.

You know, but I seen
what happened.

- You saw what happened?
- Mm-hmm.

- What happened?
- I'm not sure if the three
boys done it or not,

but three boys were there...
excuse me...

the three boys
were there,

but there's one more that's
running around loose right now.

- And he lives here
in Jonesboro right now.
- Who he is?

Mark Byers.

You believe Mark Byers
had something to do
with this?

He-he was
holding a knife.

What more proof do you need?
He was holding a knife.

The three boys were not
holding a knife.
Mark Byers was.

- And how did
you witness this?
- I seen it.

Have you told the police
what you saw?

I tried to tell the police,
but nobody wants
to listen to me.

I've tried to tell
the prosecutors, but they
don't want to listen to me.

Why don't they want
to listen?

I been in an accident
before, you know,

and they think
I'm all scrambled up.

I'm probably signing
my death warrant right now.

I'm probably
doing that right now,
but I don't care.

- What is your name, sir?
- But I don't care.

You can get it
somewhere else.

I have no more comments.

The guy that you just
interviewed over there?
That's "sensational."

He's like... he's just
like Jessie Misskelley.

He's a guy
who's got a story

and you're gonna...
I bet... here's my bet...

I don't know
what I'm gonna do...

we're gonna see that
on the news tonight.

I don't know
what I'm gonna do.

And it's gonna be
"big groundbreaking
revelation confession."

- And you guys are gonna...
- just as long as that's
not the only thing.

Don't pre-empt
everything else
to show that.

But I wonder if you're
gonna use any footage

that you got of Steve baker
or anything that talks
about facts

or anything that was
brought up in court today.

Any of the...
any of the "news"...

- Yes, I agree it's the news.
- ...As opposed to the fiction.

Only one news story
that I saw mentioned that
the bite-Mark impressions

did not match any
of the three boys in jail.

That was the big news
yesterday and none
of the reporters were here.

And nobody mentioned it
except for one news report

that I saw this morning
added it as an afterthought.

"Oh, and by the way,
none of the bite impressions
taken matched."

Well, see, I got that
afterwards because
I couldn't stay here.

- So I had to call someone.
And so I added in...
- but you could have asked.

- Everybody dashed out.
- Well, we did. We came here.

Oh, I did and I put that
at the end of my story.

- I had that at
the end of my story.
- Okay.

But in the first case,

did the state bring
their own odontologist?

No, there was never
a mention of bite marks.

They wouldn't have
brought an odontologist.

If they had
brought an odontologist,
that would have suggested

that they knew
there were bite marks
or some reason to bring one.

But there was no...
originally it was either
overlooked or ignored,

so they had no reason
to bring in an odontologist

because it wasn't mentioned
in the first trial.

When would that...
I mean, 'cause someone
told me that and...

Someone lied to you.

You probably saw it
on the news.

I don't...

Maybe.

Now live from your
good neighbor station,

this is k8 news at 6.

It was a packed courtroom again

as supporters and families
of both victims and convicted

listened to the last day
of testimony.

The state called
two state medical examiners

who testified they did not
find any bite marks.

However, an ondontologist,
Dr. Thomas David,

testified for the defense
that in his opinion
it was a bite Mark.

The state-called
Dr. Harry mincer,

also a forensic
ondontologist,

said that it was not
a human bite Mark.

While the state and defense
seesaw back and forth,

Damien's supporters
remain optimistic.

- How are you doing?
- Fine.

Good.
Okay, here's the deal:

- They're gonna talk
to me from New York.
- Mm-hmm.

You're not gonna
be talking to me.
We're gonna put an earpiece in.

You're gonna
hear Gregg Jarrett.
He's the host in New York.

His name Gregg.
You can just call him Gregg,
if you want to.

- Gotcha.
- And when you
answer his questions

just look at the camera
instead of me.

- Okay?
- No problem.

Act like I've done it
a hundred times.

You have done it
a hundred times.

Run this down
your shirt...

- Is he all right?
- He's fine. He's fine
where he is.

Is my son's
picture good?

We're joined now
by John Mark Byers,

adoptive father of the victim
Christopher Byers.

Thank you for taking
the time with us.

- Mark, go ahead.
- Mr. Byers?

- They didn't ask me.
- Mr. Byers, do you hear me?

He hasn't said
a word to me.

- Can you hear him?
- No, there's nothing
coming through here.

Obviously we're having
some technical difficulties.

- Mr. Byers, can you hear me?
- This is New York.

- Mr. Byers?
- He's not speaking to me.

- Tim, can you...?
- Yeah, I can hear you, Gregg.

- Can you hear
them now, Mr. Byers?
- No, I cannot.

You're okay, Timmy.
Don't worry about your Mike.

- I got you dead.
- Can you hear him now?

So let's get it
checked in and we'll go
for the third block.

- Does that make sense, Tim?
- Yeah, that's fine.

- See if his thing is kinked.
- Mr. Sauls is gonna join us.

It'll be
in two minutes.

- Timmy, you still
got me right?
- I got ya, dom, I got ya.

- Mr. Sauls can you
hear me, sir?
- Yes.

- You can.
- Yes.

- And, Mr. Byers, can you
hear me, sir?
- Yes, I can.

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Byers
joins us again.

Hopefully we've solved
the technical problem.

- Can you hear me now?
- Yes, I can.

What do you think of echols
and the defense team

saying you're the killer?

I have a very
good answer for that:

I'm 6'8"
and weigh 252 lbs.

I'm the largest
red herring

they've ever thrown
in a jury box.

Someone else
to take the jury's mind

off the three
real murderers.

All right,
joining us now also is,
in Jonesboro, burk Sauls.

He helps run the free
the west Memphis three
support fund.

Do you believe
that Mr. Byers is
the real killer?

I don't really...

that's not the point
of what we're doing here.

I'm not here
to accuse anyone.

That's actually what happened
to these three guys.

One of things that I guess
a lot of people can't get over

is one of the three defendants...
all three were convicted...

Jessie Misskelley
confessed.

Uh, how do you
account for that?

Well, to the experts that
testified in the trial

it was a... it was a...

to them it was a...
a forced confession.
It was coerced.

What was coercive
about it?

For one thing, there was
a timeline problem

where he stated it
happened early in the day

and they led him
down to the time

that they wanted him to say
that it had happened.

And he eventually
gave 'em what they wanted.

I want to thank all of you
for being with us.
We appreciate it.

Coming up next
on "prime time justice,"

President Clinton's war
with independent counsel
Ken Starr

isn't over yet.

I really appreciate what
y'all have done for them.

I think just the fact
that we live in Los Angeles

where there may be some talents,
that we can probably

help this case out
somewhat.

I know at the airport yesterday
there was a young guy

that walked past us
and he had on a black shirt,

black pants,
black trench coat
and black boots.

And I thought...

"You get in trouble
in that at some places."

Yeah, welcome to L.A.

50% of the people
that live here dress
like that.

We were like, "well,
there's a guy wearing all black.

There's a woman wearing
all black.

There's another
guy wearing all black."
It's a flattering color.

A lot of the reason
that Damien wore the black

was because someone told him
that he was sexy in the black.

And then he wore it
most of the time.

That's your argument.

That's your argument
that these guys are guilty.

It's like, "come on,
how silly is this?"

So... and of course
it was the media,

that portrayed these guys
to start, anything that...

That's what did it.

And I couldn't
believe all the...

they overwhelmed us
from the very beginning

when they arrested 'em

- and the media attacked them.
- Yeah.

See, now it's our turn
to use the media
to our advantage.

'Cause the first time
around there was
no critical thinking.

They just reported
whatever they might
have heard or a rumor.

And they report it
and you hear it on the news
and you think it's true.

Well, now we have
the "Leeza" show
to show fact.

For once. You know,
it's not emotional.

It's not about
how people feel.

It's about facts.

And we're glad to have
you guys here too.

It's really important to have
your guys' voices be heard.

- Are you guys
nervous about the show?
- Very.

Just be yourselves.
You'll do good.

You'll be fine.

You still a little nervous?

Very. I'm very nervous.

Hello, everyone.
Thank you.

Thanks for joining us
once again.

How do you feel like
the "leeza" show went?

- Do you think it went well or?
- I thought it really well.

You could hear people
in the background

that didn't know
anything about the case,

you could hear 'em
coming along as they
presented stuff.

Like the first...
when the mothers
were out there,

there was sort
of some skepticism.

You could kind
of hear 'em talking,

like no one was sure whether
to believe it or not.

And then as more
and more came out and you guys
were talking more,

you could hear people
starting to get angry.

What was the audience
reaction about the...

when they learned
that all three defendants

had been excluded
from making the bite Mark?

It was like,
"match the bite Mark,
find the killer."

I mean, I think
everybody got that.

It was like
"okay, so the kids don't
match the bite Mark."

I think
it sort of sunk in
that that means...

the kid shouldn't have
a bite Mark on his face.

He didn't leave home
with a big fat bite Mark
on his face.

If they missed that,
what else did they miss?

So did you guys see anything
in Byers' interview,

like, did you guys notice
the conflicting stories?

What did you
read from that?

Did you get
anything from that?

Well, obviously, I think
he's a little mixed up

about his felony history.

I noticed Byers wasn't
wearing his teeth
in the interview.

- That's true.
- Now what happened
with his teeth, do you know?

Well, there's several
different versions
of what happened.

The first version
that I heard was

he got 'em knocked out
in a fight.

He changes his story.
First, a long time
ago he said

he got 'em knocked out
in a fight.

Then he told leeza that he
had 'em surgically removed.

And he told me that
he had taken tegretol

and that they had just
kind of rotted out.

- Oh boy.
- Burk and grove
told me last night

that something about Byers
had left his teeth somewhere

and that's why he didn't have
them on during the taping.

What was
the story on that?

I think the producers
of the show said that

um, Byers had told them

that he left them in
a restaurant somewhere.

And so his last parting words
to the producers

when he was
leaving the show,

which he had done
without his teeth, is

"I'm not leavin' L.A.
without my teeth!"

The test is
about to begin.

Is this the month
of October?

Yes.

Regarding those deaths,

do you intend
to answer truthfully
each question about that?

Yes.

Other than what
we've talked about,

did you ever wish
any person would die?

No.

Did you harm
any of those boys?

No.

Other than what
we've talked about,

did you ever think
about hurting anyone?

No.

Did you harm any
of those boys found
at Robin hood hills?

No.

The test is over.
Remain seated,
looking straight ahead.

Here's the website.

This is how all
the people find us.

They can come on here
and they can read about

everything that's
been going on.

It's a pretty
good synopsis of...

- Mm-hmm.
- ...Of our involvement
and what happened.

We have an individual page
for each...

Damien, Jason and Jessie.
They each have their own page.

Then there's
different links,

like the college fund
for Damien.

You know his...
where it stands
right now with him.

- That's a really
good picture of Damien.
- That's a good picture.

- Oh yeah,
that looks good.
- Kind of dapper.

Here's Jason's page.
He has some poems that we got.

So we have an extra page
just for his poetry.

I never dreamed
he could write poetry
the way he does.

Read his poem.

"An electric charge
is in the air

the scent
of burning ozone,

the deep bass
of thunder rumbles,

we feel it
in our stomach.

The wind picks up,
the clouds choke up

to blot out
the blue skies.

The rain pours down,
drenching my soul.

You are there

and I no longer
face the storm alone."

Mark, are you
feeling better?

You got that arm
straightened out

- and had that smoke?
- The thing's remarkable.

- Congratulations.
- Well, thank you, sir.

I don't, uh... according
to what we have here,

your responses
on the chart,

I feel you're
telling the truth

about the issues
we worked with

as far as you see them.
As you see them.

Give me a high-five.

Thank you!
I knew it was right.

I knew
I was innocent.

And to all of you morons,
fools and idiots

that thought I had
anything to do with it,

I am now vindicated.

Maybe this'll serve a point
to some of y'all.

And I feel sorry
and my heart goes out
to the victims

that have to be put through
things such as this

to just already
try to clear my name

when it's already been
vindicated once...

now it's been vindicated twice
by a professional

who I have
the utmost respect for.

And I want each and every one
of you devil-worshippers to know

that you are wrong
and you need to go

on another ghost-hunt
and leave me alone.

- Your call is being connected.
- Thank you for using MCI.

- Hello?
- Hello.

- How are you doing?
- Am I on speakerphone?

- Yes.
- Hey, Damien.

- Your mom's here.
- Yes, say hi.

- Hi, son.
- Hello.

- How are you doing?
- Okay, I suppose.

- You okay?
I miss you.
Yeah, I'm okay.

- Are you okay?
- Yeah.

- Okay.
- Yeah.

I miss you.
Miss you too.

I don't want to hear
any of that either.

I know you lie every time
you come here too,

whenever you say you're not
gonna cry on the way home.

But then you get out
in the parking lot...

And you cry.
Not every time.

Why are you crying?

I just miss you.

I miss you too,
but I'm not doing all that.

Calm down.

- I love you.
- I love you, baby.

- Calm down.
- I'm okay.

- Stop crying.
- You have
exceeded your time limit.

- I'm not crying.
- This call is
being terminated.

Your call is terminated.

Now that I live alone,

I have a lot
of time on my hands
for my own demise

or for my own
well-being,

whichever I so choose.

I so choose for my welfare
and my well-being

rather than my demise.

You might wonder
what do I do with
all my spare time.

Well, I still
enjoy singing.

And I took several songs
and put 'em together,

went to a studio here
in the town I live in

and I recorded a song
that meant a lot to me

and has been
a great blessing
of faith and hope,

that has helped me
through every day.

And there's not a day go by
that I don't listen to it

or sing it or at least try
to remember part of it.

And if you'd like,

I'll sing a little
of this song for you today.

This came
after hours of work...

...and $45.

And you can have
anything made.

♪ Amazing grace ♪

♪ shall always be ♪

♪ my song of praise ♪

♪ for it was grace ♪

♪ that bought
my Liberty ♪

♪ I do not know ♪

♪ just why he came ♪

♪ to love me so ♪

♪ he looked beyond ♪

♪ my fault ♪

♪ and saw my needs ♪

♪ I shall forever lift ♪

♪ my eyes to Calvary ♪

♪ to view the cross ♪

♪ where Jesus died for me ♪

♪ I'm on the last terrain ♪

♪ that caught
my falling soul ♪

♪ he looked beyond ♪

♪ my fault
and saw my need ♪

♪ he looked beyond ♪

♪ my fault ♪

♪ and saw my need... ♪

Every new little piece
of information

that surfaces
with this case
points away

from the three guys
who are currently serving
prison sentences.

And one of 'em's
on death row.

If the three defendants
ever got out,

uh, and were released

I would be sick.

I wasn't convinced
from the evidence

that it was
a bite Mark.

And so ruled.

The west Memphis police
are never going to admit
they botched this up.

They're not ever gonna admit
that they got the wrong people.

I'll watch you,
you bastard, Damien echols,

take your last breath,
you lowlife son of a bitch.

If I were released today,

I would kind of want
to just blend into obscurity.

I wouldn't want
to be remembered.

You know, I wouldn't want
to walk down the street
and have someone say,

"hey, you're that kid
that was on death row

that they made
that documentary about."