Original subtitles

I knew from when I was real small

that people were gonna know who I was.

I always had that feeling.

But I just never knew how they were gonna learn.

I kinda enjoy it, because now even after I die,

people are going to remember me forever.

They're gonna talk about me for years.

People in west Memphis will tell their kids stories.

It... it will be, like,

sort of like I’m the west Memphis bogey man.

Little kids will be looking under their bed

before they go to bed... "Damien might be under there."

If I had the opportunity to speak to Damien Echols...

I would tell him that I hope he busts hell wide open.

Period.

And that if I could get my hands on him,

I would eat the skin off of his face.

"Paradise lost: The child murders at Robin Hood Hills,"

this film tells the tale of three teens who wore black,

listened to Metallica and, perhaps as a result,

were convicted in the 1993 killing of three young boys.

Two filmmakers with incredible access

spent almost a year in west Memphis documenting the trial and the town.

Everybody in the town and in the courtroom and on the jury

are all blinded by their fantasies about satanic cults.

The criminal confessions.

Are too many manipulated by the police?

You've got to be wondering if the true killers were actually captured.

The reason I made the, um,

"west Memphis bogey man" comment during the first film

was because I was making light of the situation.

I was joking. I didn't realize that...

I mean I didn't even comprehend

that the situation could get this serious,

that it could actually go this far.

Because I was thinking, "if you haven't done anything,

then they can't prove that you did something

you haven't actually done."

That didn't make sense to me. Now I see they can.

I wasn't even thinking about it whenever I said it...

a spur-of-the-moment thing.

But a lot of people, it seems, didn't take it that way.

You're not gonna be no bogey man in west Memphis

because you're gonna be dead in hell.

You're watching KATV channel 7,

the spirit of Arkansas.

Today marks the five-year anniversary

of a west Memphis murder case that gained national attention.

The bodies of three second graders:

Steven branch, Christopher Byers and Michael Moore

were found mutilated in a ditch.

Now one of the three men convicted for the murders, Damien Echols,

has prompted a hearing to try to get his conviction thrown out.

- Norris. - That hearing started today in Jonesboro,

where the trial also took place.

Damien Echols is trying to avoid being executed by lethal injection.

He's claiming he didn't get a fair trial

because of misrepresentation by his attorneys.

Four years ago an Arkansas jury found him guilty

of murdering three second graders

in a horrific ritualistic sacrifice.

As our senior correspondent Tim Sullivan reports,

he wants a new trial and a chance to live.

After a month of investigation,

police arrested Echols and two of his teenage friends,

Jessie Misskelley and Jason Baldwin.

Police theorized the murders had been part of a satanic ritual.

In addition to local media,

the case attracted a documentary team

that produced a film called "paradise lost" for HBO.

As a result of the film,

a nationwide support group has sprung up

to help the young men they call "the west Memphis three."

If the world would only know that this case is

a travesty. It is a non-case.

It is a case where someone is in prison right now because of prejudice.

My son Christopher was the one that Jason Baldwin,

Jessie Misskelley and Damien Echols murdered

on may 5, 1993, five years ago today.

That's all we're really doing is trying to promote the case.

You know, we're not experts, we're not lawyers, we're not scientists.

We just need to keep this case alive so people will do something.

- And where are you from? - Los Angeles.

- Where are you from? - I'm from Arkansas...

- Paris, Arkansas. - And where are you from?

Akron, Ohio.

Mark, how do you feel about "the west Memphis three" support group?

To me it's like a Jeffrey Dahmer fan club,

Charles Manson fan club, Ted Bundy.

You could name them all. Some people want to come to the rescue of a savage

to get maybe their 15-minutes' notoriety on TV.

We get emails from all over the world actually.

You know, everybody knows there's doubt about this case,

but we just want people to look at it again and maybe question it.

They keep wanting to find someone else to blame

to get their three off.

That's their job... taking care of who they want;

draw suspicion; Do their thing.

But the world knows who's guilty and who's innocent.

Could you hold that out for me and let me get another shot?

We would like to talk about the case.

I'm here today because this is a hearing for Damien Echols.

It's the fifth anniversary of the tragic murders

which he was convicted for, but we do not feel there was

really sufficient evidence to warrant that conviction.

Yeah, they're guilty. They're guilty as they are.

And that's an atrocity for you to even want to sell...

where's the profit going for these t-shirts?

It all goes to raise publicity about the case.

Every penny of it goes back into doing that.

Why doesn't the profit go to the victims' families?

The son of Sam law says that Echols and these three can't make any money off it...

- it doesn't go to them. - It is going to the victims' families.

It is. It's trying to find out who killed these little boys.

- They know who killed these three little boys right there. - I don't know it.

- They're cold-blooded murderers. - In your opinion.

It doesn't... doesn't add up that way for us.

In my opinion and 24 jurors out of the state of Arkansas's opinion.

Don't just say my opinion.

These T-shirts...

they're worth trash, garbage.

I've been locked up six years for something that I didn't do.

And sometimes, uh, the things we go through that make us suffer

are very good teachers.

I think my suffering through this whole thing

has taught me a very great deal.

I have anger sometimes,

but there's no one to direct it towards, you know?

So I just really try to stay focused on, uh,

just going home, getting...

letting everybody know that I am innocent, that I didn't do this.

Um, I don't really understand how they convicted me

or got me in here or really how they did...

how they just arrested me in the first place, you know?

But it happened, so I just can't really dwell on what's happened.

I've just got to work with what's going on now.

When they told me that I was going to spend

the rest of my life in prison, at the time,

I wanted to tell them, "look, I don't want to do that.

Just... you might as well just go ahead and kill me right now

because there ain't no way I'm going to spend the rest of my life

in prison and miss my family. I just can't do that."

But you know, over the years past and everything,

I done... you know, I done got used to it,

done adjusted to it and everything,

how the system works and all that, you know.

I adjusted to it, you know.

Basically...

It's getting better and better by the day.

You know, I've just got to adjust to it more often.

And it's getting better.

But I lived... I'm gonna make it through it.

♪ Welcome to where time stands still ♪

♪ no one leaves and no one will ♪

♪ the moon is full, it never seems to change ♪

♪ just labeled mentally deranged... ♪

My name is Chris Worthington and I'm from Akron, Ohio.

Debra Shue, I'm from Murfreesboro, Tennessee.

I'm Kathy Bakken and I'm from California.

Grove Pashley, g-r-o-v-e p-a-s-h-l-e-y,

and I'm from Los Angeles.

Anna Macek, a-n-n-a m-a-c-e-k,

from right outside Houston, Texas.

I'm Ruth Carter and I'm from Virginia.

Bill Prichason, p-r-i-c-h-a-s-o-n,

- A-s-o-n? - New Joisey.

Gregory Fleming from Alexander, Arkansas.

I'm Marcia Ian, m-a-r-c-i-a i-a-n,

also from New Jersey.

My name's burk Sauls and I'm an alcoholic.

No, I'm burk Sauls, b-u-r-k s-a-u-l-s,

and I'm from Los Angeles, California.

I'd like it if you could all tell me why...

why some of you have come from so far?

Some, I think, have driven as far as from California,

taken vacation time, spent money and so forth

to come to this...

fairly obscure in many ways... hearing.

I think I saw "paradise lost" the night it premiered on HBO

in August of '96.

And it just made me so mad

that a modern-day witch trial

was being allowed to occur in America.

I mean, it's not just the fact that they were making mistakes

and getting the wrong people, it looked like,

but the fact that people seemed to be reaching their decisions,

even the jury,

because of things like emotions and prejudice

and hysteria and their anger.

And they weren't using their reason or common sense

or they weren't really even applying the law.

And I just think that's the wrong way

for things to happen in America.

And I couldn't forget about it.

I just got angrier, so finally I decided to look into the case

and I wrote Damien and read all I could about it

and finally just kind of stumbled upon

other people on the Internet who felt like I did about it.

It just made me cry. It really made me cry, because I was thinking,

"how in the world can they sentence this guy to death

with what they have? Which is nothing."

When I went to work, you know, and they had

"caught" the people that had done this,

my boss at work, she just thought it was great.

She was like, "well, they caught those freaks that killed those kids."

What a relief!

Yeah, I mean, those were her exact words... "they caught those freaks."

And I said, "they haven't even done the trial yet.

What makes you think they did it?" And she was like,

"well, look at them. Look at the way they dress. Of course they did it."

I thought, "golly, I'd better stay in the house then

because it's not safe for me out there then."

I think that's a real typical scenario people go through.

Uh, they first join the list is that... "I watched 'paradise lost.'

I also wore black t-shirts. I was an alienated teenager."

And I think that might be the initial attraction that brings people in.

But I think what's really important and that brings people together

to the point where you travel across country

to come to Jonesboro, Arkansas,

on your week of vacation

are the more important issues such as justice,

such as a corrupt, incompetent police force

and justice system working in a vacuum

here in Arkansas when nobody's watching. That's why I'm here.

I don't want them to think they can operate in the dark,

kind of like a mushroom, and grow.

No one enjoys sentencing somebody to death.

Nobody enjoys having to go through the...

the trial. That's why they call it a "trial," I guess,

because it is

heart-jerking

and difficult to deal with.

When you read those words imposing the death sentence,

I don't know if it was visible,

but there was a catch in my throat.

I could feel it and certainly you've had those feelings.

It's hard.

All right, gentlemen, if you'd have your clients stand, please.

All right, Mr. Echols, the jury having found you guilty of capital murder,

three counts in the death of Michael Moore,

Chris Byers and Steve branch,

you are to be immediately transported

to the Arkansas department of corrections,

where the director or his duly-appointed and designated representative will...

On the 5th day of may of 1994,

will be directed to cause to be administered

a continuous intravenous injection

of a lethal quantity

of an ultrashort-acting barbiturate

in combination with a chemical paralytic agent

into your body until you are dead.

There's never been a moment

that I've ever doubted

that we did not arrest the right individuals.

Never in my mind.

There's never been a doubt.

I can go to bed at night and sleep,

knowing that I did my job and did it well.

If there was a doubt in my mind,

I would still be on the police department

and I'd still be working the case.

This is detective Bryn Ridge

of the west Memphis police department

conducting an investigation

of the circumstance of triple homicide

case file number 9305-0-6-6-6,

currently in the office with

Jessie Lloyd Misskelley, Jr.

What occurred while you were there?

What did he hit him with?

Well, I was telling them, you know, I don't know nothing about that.

And they just kept on egging it on, egging it on, egging on.

Finally I just... just said something where they would just leave me alone.

Finally I told them, you know, I chased them and everything

and caught them and brought them back.

But none of that happened.

You know, you just... you can't kill nobody

and don't leave no evidence. You can't do it.

You know, I don't care who you are, you cannot do that.

You know, there was no blood, no fingerprints,

no nothing at the crime scene.

You just can't kill nobody like that.

I don't care if you're...

A genius or nothing,

you just can't do that.

Inspector, let's talk about the things that Jessie told you

that are just absolutely incorrect.

Now on page 9 of his statement, inspector Gitchell,

Jessie says that the murders took place around noon.

How did you know that was incorrect?

Because the boys were... the young boys were still in school.

Did at any time when he was telling you these things

that you knew were incorrect,

did it ever occur to you that what he was telling you was false?

His entire story was false?

Uh, Jessie simply got confused.

This is a classic example

of how police can produce a false confession.

They threaten Jessie. They tell him that he knows things,

that they know he knows. They use the polygraph.

They tell him that he's flunked the polygraph when he didn't.

They use that to convince him that his situation is hopeless.

They upset him enormously by showing him these horrible photographs

of these dead children.

And then they give him the option

of being with the bad guys, with the consequences of that,

or joining the police.

And at this point, all he wants to do

is get out from under the pressure.

So now all he has to do is agree with what they tell him

and that's how they set it up.

Initially, they're going for a false witness statement.

But once they have him talking, it's not difficult

to get him to agree to things that will make him appear to be

a participant in the crime.

Out of the 100 or more people that y'all talked to,

are you aware of anybody other than the defendant

who told you one of the victims

that had their genitals removed

and one of them had cuts to the side of the face

and there had been some grabbing of the ears?

Uh, there was no one else that mentioned

those particular injuries.

Was there any kind of emotional response?

He had tears coming down his eyes.

- Had you all yelled at him or been mean to him... - No sir.

...or threatened him or promised him anything? Done any of those things?

- None of those things happened whatsoever. - All right.

I was down at the prison a couple weeks ago seeing Jessie

and he tells me that you come down about every Sunday.

Yeah, I try to boost his morale up.

Just hang in there for me. We're doing everything we can.

Sometimes it seems that things are kind of progressing at a snail's pace

but that's unfortunately the wheels of justice.

- There is no justice. - Well, I got to tell you that I had to ask myself

whether I still wanted to be a lawyer.

But it just lit a bigger fire under me

and made me want to get up and fight that much more.

Well, they didn't let you present your case

up there in court, I noticed that.

But we've got to have hope. Without hope we don't have a chance.

I made a promise to that kid of yours

that I'd never give up the fight

and I don't intend to do that.

Maybe the quickest way to get Jessie out of that prison

is to catch a killer.

Yeah well, I think everybody knows who done it.

But the... ain't nobody saying anything.

Leveri if you wouldn't mind, can you all... you three,

tell us how... what the Genesis of the list and the website and everything.

How you came to create it?

I saw the movie... I got an advance screener

because I work for an advertising agency.

And we worked on the key art,

which is like the movie poster art.

So I saw it about three or four months before it actually aired.

We saw the film together, Kathy and I.

And we immediately saw it and said, "oh, gosh, burk would probably like this."

Actually not like it.

But, uh... so we handed it over to burk

and then burk took a copy of it and watched it.

And I think about four days later,

not only had burk seen the film,

he'd already found a book in a used bookstore on the case.

And he called us up and he says, "these guys are innocent."

I got on this crusade

to find every scrap of information I could.

And we got all the... all the documents we could get our hands on.

And it became an obsessive type of...

like a collector's type thing

where we were each...

we'd get another tiny scrap of information

and we'd add it to the archive on the web.

And we decided to make it public too.

We wanted it to not just be in our own little filing cabinets,

but we said, "let's give this to everybody."

After a while it became apparent that

no one had actually looked at evidence

and put together a scenario that made sense.

And so we started doing more research about, you know,

investigation and homicide and forensics.

And we came across a website

that actually gave forensic and investigative classes,

like criminal profiling and homicide investigation

and that kind of thing.

So I thought it would help me in understanding the case more if I took these classes.

So I just started taking the classes and...

And in doing so I read all the articles

that Brent Turvey had written.

He's the guy that gives the classes through "knowledge solutions"

and I liked his philosophy.

It made sense. It was about evidence.

It was criminal profiling as it relates to evidence.

And I thought, maybe this is what we need,

someone who could take this evidence and tell us what happened.

Because that's all we want to know...

guilty or innocent I just want to know.

So I called him up and I started explaining the case

and he just said, "stop," you know, "get the lawyers. Tell them to call me."

And so I did and then the rest is history.

- Hey. - Hi, Dan, how are you?

- Nice to meet you. - Nice to meet you.

This is my wife and business partner Barbara.

- Nice to meet you, Barbara. - Nice to meet you.

- She's taking my notes for me so our hands can be free. - Great.

What if I were to put you over there by the easel so you could use that?

Great! An assortment of markers here for me.

I want to really thank you for agreeing to meet me here

and talk about this. I... I've been working

on this case for a long time. It's been over four years.

And when I got the email from Kathy at the support fund,

for the first time in a long time

I got to see a ray of hope

for some justice and maybe having this thing analyzed

and you don't how much it means to us.

We didn't have a budget to work with.

We didn't have access to this kind of information.

We tried to get it, but we just couldn't...

we couldn't accomplish it.

And it's just... uh, it's really...

it's really good to be able to look at this stuff now

and analyze it, even if it is four years later.

- Do you want to go right and look at the... - sure.

Okay, I brought the crime scene photos.

In every other case that I've worked on,

the crime scene photos are always these very...

they're like endangered species. You know, you never see them.

The actual crime scene photos are kind of spirited away

and what the defense usually gets is nothing

or color photocopies that are really bad.

In this case, I was very surprised to receive

all of the actual crime scene photos.

One of the cornerstones of the prosecution's case

- was that this was a ritualistic, satanic... - Right.

...cult homicide.

Do you see anything here from the crime-scene characteristics

which would be indicative

of satanism or ritualistic homicide

by a cult or anything of that nature?

Most certainly not.

There's a definite lack of ritual element to this crime.

It's very, uh... it's very unfocused

in terms of the nature of the injuries.

It's very much a reactionary type of behavior, not ritual.

And these behaviors that we see in this crime take time,

so it would not be plausible

for a serial killer or a satanic cult group

to grab these victims because of the fact that

they are going to be missed almost immediately

from the moment that they are abducted.

And whoever dumped the bodies here

knew that this place was here. He knows the area.

This is not someplace that you can just find being a trucker off the highway.

You've got to know it's here. You've got to be able

to walk in, dump the bodies and walk out.

You've got to know that this is available.

It's very clear to me from the evidence

that, uh... but we can get into that later...

that the offender did know the victims.

Hello?

- This is the MCI operator. - I have a collect call from...

- Damien... - ...Who is in an Arkansas correctional facility.

All calls other than properly-placed attorney calls

will be monitored and recorded.

All right.

- Am I on speakerphone? - Yeah. Yep.

- Awwww! - How you doing?

All right.

So there's like about 15 people saying "hello" right now.

- Hello, Damien. - Hello, grove.

Everybody's saying "hello" now.

"Hi, hello, hello, hi."

How many of them is it on there now?

25.

I just put in the call for questions on the discussion group.

Okay.

Beastie wants to know:

"I teach at a university and tell my students about your case.

What would you most like them to know about you?"

That I am neither a freak nor a monster.

Um, that I was basically a victim of circumstance,

that anyone could have end...

end up in the same situation that I am in.

"You ever... does the reality of being executed

ever bother you? Like, do you ever think that's gonna happen?"

I guess, yeah. It... it bothers me sometimes.

It doesn't bother me in the area of being afraid to die.

What bothers me is leaving so much left undone,

and that us three being behind bars

or even sentenced to death

or being in prison for the rest of our lives,

that is not going to, in any way, bring about justice,

because we didn't kill those children.

I think it's pretty sad that society can evolve

to the stage that it has, yet still be barbaric enough

that it puts innocent people like myself, Jason Baldwin

and even Jessie Misskelley in prison

and can even sentence you to death

while the real killer still walks the streets.

You know, here's where I live today...

number 11.

An apartment somewhere in the state of Arkansas.

That's good enough.

I came from a real nice big home

with all the amenities and luxuries that you could have

to what I like to call

"my humble modest studio apartment;"

a giant 300 square feet;

a bedroom, a living room, a kitchen and a bathroom.

But there's benefits to it.

It takes me five minutes to vacuum,

five minutes for the air conditioner to cool the place down

and I don't have to walk far to go to the bathroom.

So it's a good little spot to live, to be by yourself,

to control your thoughts, your emotions,

and to live the rest of my life as god sees fit.

As I look at all these dark clouds roaming in on me today,

it can very easily remind me

of may 5th, 1993.

This half was a bright sunshiny day.

This half became gloom and doom

and as the death and destruction

rolled into west Memphis, Arkansas,

and consumed three babies' life and killed them,

it's kind of like this cloud front is rolling in

and cooling off today and consuming me

as I stand here in the wind amidst the storm.

And the storm is what I have been in for the last three years.

But thank god there's a bright side on the other side.

I've been down in a lot of low valleys

and people have tried to take me out,

but I'm still here,

Jessie, Jason, Damien.

Those names ring in my ears daily

and I still hate you.

Forever and a day shall I still hate you.

Byers, when he's running around, cussing me

and telling me that I should go to hell and stuff,

it seems like he's play-acting.

You know, trying to divert the attention...

trying to play the role that he should be... of an angered parent,

when really he's... really I believe

he's the one that did it.

The murders of three west Memphis boys last year

shocked all of region 8.

During the trials earlier this year,

we empathized with the parents and relatives

of those little boys.

And because of television,

we were able to see and hear the emotions

those parents were going through.

Now the parents of one of the boys

find themselves once again under public scrutiny. Jenna?

Since the trials, the Byers moved

from west Memphis to Cherokee village.

Now they say they wanted to start a new life,

but now they face criminal charges.

They're accused of taking $20,000 worth of property

from a neighbor's house.

Police have witnesses who claim they saw the Byers

loading stolen items into their pickup truck.

And when police searched the Byers' house,

they found a few of them.

Mark and Melissa Byers face additional charges

in their old home town.

West Memphis police have 13 warrants for the Byers

for allegedly writing over $700 in bad checks.

The Byers also face other charges.

When they moved to Cherokee village,

the Byers became good friends with their neighbors,

John and Donna Kingsbury.

Problems began when Mark spanked the Kingsbury's five-year-old.

I took the fly swatter and I just...

on the... just the plastic end,

just on the back of his blue jeans.

I said, "now you get home. You've been a bad boy."

But the Kingsburys say the whipping bruised their son.

We did have to have a restraining order

put on them, because I was worried about my family.

Mark Byers' problems began in July.

He's been charged with contributing

to the delinquency of a minor.

Police say he stood by holding a gun

and allowed a teenaged friend to assault John shaver, Jr.

According to a police report,

the teenager used a closed pocket knife in his fist

to assault shaver.

The fight sent shaver to the hospital with a concussion.

Byers admits the knife was his.

He also admits there was a gun in his car.

The shavers say Byers used the gun

to prevent bystanders from stopping the fight.

I think I'd be extremely...

Shaver's father believes this raises

serious questions about Byers.

There's a lot of people that's talked to me about it, which, I hate to say it,

but they think maybe he might have had something to do with the... those murders.

Mark Byers says that's ridiculous,

but these charges and the questions they dredge up

may stick with this family forever.

People are placing a lot of emphasis on Mark

and could he have been a suspect.

And there again it's the same question that was asked to me,

"did we pick Damien up because he looked weird?"

Well, are we accusing Mark Byers

because he has a ponytail and looks a little weird

and he's a big kind of guy and is kind of boisterous?

I mean, is that why he's labeled as

having something to do with it? No.

You have to look at the facts and the facts are

the three that we arrested and that have been convicted

are the ones that did this.

Mark Byers didn't have anything to do with this crime at all.

Who did you receive this knife from?

I received it from, uh uh...

how did I actually receive it?

No, who did you receive the knife from?

I received it from, uh, Joe,

and the people with HBO productions.

Here, this red area here,

this is the shaft of the penis

and here is where the scrotal sack and testes should be

and they're missing.

So what we have is that the skin overlying the penis

and the head of the penis has been carved off.

It's gone. It's not there.

You can see, this is probably the single worst case

of sexual mutilation I've seen.

This stab wound right here?

This one right here.

It's a nice elliptical shape there?

Nice stab wound right there?

See those little sort of abrasions

that come along the top there and off the side there?

- Uh-huh. - Those indicate movement.

Now that is either the person stabbing the knife in and twisting it,

or the person who is being stabbed is moving.

And a lot of them, uh, at all kinds of funny angles

mean to me that the kid was moving around.

Dr. Peretti testified at Misskelley's trial in corning

that this could have been done with a knife

or it could have been done with a sharp piece of glass.

Two weeks later he testifies that this someone

is someone who has a great deal of knowledge of anatomy.

And that this penis is skinned meticulously

- which would take... - Right.

...a great deal of time under laboratory conditions.

What can you tell me about that?

On really close examination...

this is why I brought you the magnifying glass...

because I want you to look right here.

You can see the impression of the handle of the knife

as it is being plunged. You see that little squareness right there?

So whoever did this went like this and grabbed it and just went like that.

And that's how they cut it out.

No precision, no accuracy, no skill required to do that.

And actually, to me, it's consistent with

a fishing knife that's got the blade on one side

and the serrated top on the other.

Because of the movement involved and because of the depth,

that right there is something that only somebody

who is, like, really angry is going to do.

This is not... this is not an act of deliberation

or an act that's well-thought-out or well planned.

- Is it an act of sexual gratification? - I don't believe so.

I believe it's an act of anger.

Mr. Byers, I need to ask you about

defense exhibit number e-6,

this particular folding lockblade kershaw knife.

- If I can approach the witness, your honor. - Yes.

So on January the 26th, did Gitchell tell you,

"let me explain a problem we had

and you need to answer this for me,

we have found blood on this knife"?

I don't remember if he said there was or not.

Did you have any idea how human blood was on that knife?

Well, yes, I would have an idea. I cut my thumb.

All right, do you recall stating,

"I have no idea, no idea

how it could have any human blood on it"?

- Do you recall giving that answer? - Yes sir.

Then do you recall stating, "I don't even remember nicking myself with it,

cutting the deer meat or anything"?

- Is that the answer you gave? - Yes sir.

And is that the truth?

I might not have remembered it at that time

when he was questioning me

but I could have remembered it later on in the day

- and talked to him about it. - Okay.

Mark Byers, everywhere he goes trouble follows him.

Didn't him and his wife break in this house

and get these statues and all this stuff?

Yeah, and then they just got slapped on the wrist.

And he can get into as much trouble as he wants to get into

and they just never do anything to him.

And he's apparently not that great of a person

because from hearing people talk about

places that he wants to live

or houses that he wants to get,

the neighborhood freaks out

and they don't want him living there.

I'll tell you what really worries me about Mark Byers

is he's got a thing for knives,

like the knife he gave to HBO.

And then later on

he gives a teenage boy a knife.

If you had a child that was brutally murdered by a knife,

you wouldn't be giving another kid

a knife to fight another kid.

And then hold a gun on him and make him do it?

I mean...

Well, I wouldn't go far enough to say

that Mark Byers murdered these little boys,

but I think he had something to do with it

and I just can't figure out what.

And I think there's a lot of people that probably do know.

I had three or four people come to my house

to look me up to tell me that they believe that my son was innocent

and that they personally knew Mark Byers,

and that they believed that he was capable

of doing a crime like that.

And they said they had been to the police,

but the police wouldn't listen.

And I feel really bad about what happened to Melissa Byers

because it concerns me

that maybe she found out something

that she shouldn't have.

And I'd like to know what really happened to her.

I wish you could have been here to hear me sing lately.

He liked to hear me sing.

I think his little Christmas tree will stay there real well.

It's in there tight enough. I don't think the wind will blow it over or anything.

Come here and kneel down here by me.

Oh god, why did you let this happen?

Please help us through it.

God, please help us through this.

These are for you, Melissa.

I know how you love red roses, baby.

This is all I can do for you.

I know your heart was broken.

I know you couldn't stand the death of your child.

But, oh god, I wish you hadn't left me.

You remember when we were on our honeymoon,

how happy we were?

We worked together. We ate together.

We went everywhere together.

We weren't husband and wife,

we were best friends.

I loved you with all my heart.

You remember when we opened our jewelry store?

We had finally accomplished something.

Had two sons doing good, a nice house,

a nice business,

two dogs and a cat.

Just an average family,

trying to live our lives

the best we could.

I can never put into words how much I loved you.

You were everything to me.

You were my life.

I lived to see you smile.

Those animals killed you.

They're evil animals and they killed you

and I blame them for your death.

And all for you morons,

infidels and fools

that think that I had anything to do with it,

go to hell!

Go to hell!

I loved my wife more than any man could love his wife

on the face of the earth.

I'd have died for her.

I took care of her. She was my life.

I didn't do anything but love her.

And for all you sick son of a bitches out there

that think I had anything to do with her life,

go to hell!

Go to hell.

Think what you might,

but you can kiss my ass!

I can't understand

why exactly people are glossing over the obvious

when it comes to Byers and the death of Melissa Byers

and all the things that Byers has said and done

since this trial.

I think maybe for the general public,

it's not quite as scary to believe

that bloodthirsty satanists were out murdering children

as it is to believe that parents are actually murdering their own children.

Now you're... you're aware that you're here to take a polygraph test today?

- Yes sir. - And this is concerning the deaths of three boys...

- Yes sir. - ...At west Memphis in 1993?

- Yes sir. - Okay, you're also aware that this... a record,

an audio and video record is being made of this procedure?

- Correct, sir. - You don't have any problem with that?

- No sir. - If you do, I want to know about it now

because I don't want anything bothering you.

I don't have any problem with it.

Okay, that sounds good to me.

Mark, what we're going to do today,

we're going to talk about what happened in west Memphis.

We're going to talk about you,

- where you come from and who you are. - Okay, sir.

What's your name... your full name?

John Mark Byers.

- B-y-e-r? - E-r-s, yes sir.

Okay.

What about your relationship to Christopher?

Uh, he was my best buddy.

Did you all... did you all have disputes,

like all father and son have, I'm sure?

Well, in the beginning, of course, he was little.

But when he got up to four or five,

- he started having behavior problems. - Mm-hmm.

And Melissa didn't know what was wrong with him.

I didn't know what was wrong with him.

In hindsight now, I can look back and say,

"boy, if I had known that, I'd have never spanked him

or I'd have never given him time out

or I wouldn't have done anything like that."

You say you spanked him. What was your intent when you spanked him?

- Was it your intent to hurt him? - Oh, no sir.

- To discipline him? - Discipline him.

- Did you ever hurt him? - No sir.

Son, I know there's thousands of eyes

watching what I'm going to do.

I know I made mistakes. I'm not a perfect father,

but I know I loved you with all my heart.

And I know I tried to keep you from getting hurt.

I know the times I had to spank you or punish you

it was 'cause I loved you, son.

I loved you and I didn't want anything terrible to happen to you.

With your knowledge of the amount of blood that was lost,

from... not only Chris Byers but these other boys

who've had some pretty... they're gonna bleed as well, won't they?

- Oh, yes. - Okay.

Do you have an opinion as to whether or not

you could clean up that amount of blood

at a scene in the dark?

Do you have an opinion as to that?

I think it would be quite difficult to do,

to have injuries of this nature

without having any blood.

I mean, that's...

I would question that... about the blood.

One of the bodies was

discovered in this area right here.

There's a place up there on the hill

where those two trees grow together right there.

- Mm-hmm. - That was one of the other reference points

on the crime-scene diagram.

The prosecution, their theory was

that the murders occurred here in the creek bank.

And that actually...

that actually the homicides took place here

on this little kind of plateau area.

And that the defendants

threw water up on the bank and washed all the blood away.

The water was about this high.

And the theory being that the water, it would hit the bodies

- and wash the blood back into the river? - And wash away the evidence.

Okay.

I'm not sure exactly how that would work,

or why they would think it would work.

Unless they had someone throwing water at the same time

the, uh, castration...

you can use a garden hose on the bodies

and you wouldn't get all the blood away.

That's like... there would have been so much blood,

the amount of blood at this crime scene,

if this had been the place where Chris Byers alone was emasculated,

there would have been so much more blood than that.

Plus they wouldn't have been able to see it. It would have been

an incomplete job. So this is only a disposal site.

Two of the kids did die here because they were put in the water and they drowned,

but this is a disposal site only, not a primary crime scene.

I'd have to say that the making

of the film "paradise lost" was...

was a new situation for the court

and I'm sure for all of the lawyers involved.

I think I had indicated to the producers earlier

that if either the defense or the prosecution had objected,

there wouldn't have been any filming in the courtroom.

But if I had the decision to do over again

as to whether a documentary was made,

I probably would not allow it.

- Tim. - Well, Beth, right now the new attorneys,

the appellate attorneys for Damien echols

are conducting a hearing inside this courtroom.

They have on the stand a lawyer who represented

one of Echol's co-defendants at trial,

uh, a few years ago.

What they're trying to do

is establish that the trial lawyers in this case

who represented Damien echols

were ineffective, that they were incompetent.

The main argument is that they had a conflict of interest

because they agreed to cooperate with filmmakers

who were making a documentary about the case,

an award-winning documentary called "paradise lost."

It was produced by HBO. The argument these attorneys are going to make

is that because Damien echols' trial lawyers

made an agreement to cooperate with those filmmakers...

and the allegation is that they accepted money from those filmmakers...

that that created a conflict of interest

which made them incompetent and ineffective

to assist Damien echols at trial.

We expect that when the prosecutors cross-examine

the lawyers who represented Damien echols,

those lawyers will testify that

they did not make a deal to take money from the filmmakers.

That the agreement was that

the filmmakers would provide money for a trust fund

for the defendants,

that the money did not go to the attorneys.

It was not for the attorneys

and it did not create a conflict of interest.

That will be the argument the prosecutors are going to draw out

to try to make sure this conviction stands up.

I think one of the ironies about this motion is that

a lot of the lawyers who are involved in it now,

Ed Mallett, Barry Scheck, Bob Fogelnest, high-profile lawyers...

never would have heard of this case before the documentary came out.

Okay?

Okay.

Okay?

Can you tell me much about your interview with him?

My interview with him? Yeah, you know I'll send you a...

I can send you a copy of the piece we did,

- based on the interview. - Really? Man, I'd love to have it.

It's basically, you know, we talked about death row,

what it's like to be on death row, et cetera.

- Um, you know... - was his hair still long then?

Oh, yeah, his hair was like down to here.

Yeah. That's what it looked like when he was here last.

I guess they wanted to clean him up

and make him look presentable.

- He said that wearing a white shirt... - he had long fingernails too.

He said wearing a white shirt really gave him a headache,

so I know it's just killing him sitting there in the courtroom.

He said white was on the good side

and he liked to stay on the dark side.

He didn't say that to me.

When you were going through the treatment

that you were going through that led you to file that suit,

how did you finally get to the point where you did file it,

talk to the lawyers, et cetera?

I don't really even know.

I mean, it's...

Umm...

One day you wake up and you figure out,

"what's the worst thing they can do to you?

Kill you?"

I mean, I'm sitting here on death row anyway.

What else were they going to do to me?

You don't have anything to lose

when you're in a situation like that.

I went to see Damien yesterday.

And for the first time in four years, I got to touch him.

I got to hug him.

And it was hard to believe how much he had grown...

taller... he was at least a head taller than I was.

I can't believe you had to go all that time

without even being able to give him a hug.

He's 20-something years old but he's still my baby.

And that's what it felt like when I put my arms around him.

And then he sat down. You could tell he was really nervous

because he's been out... by himself for so long.

Yeah.

He was having a really hard time being around people.

I was allowed to visit with Jason after he was sentenced

and it was the first contact visit we had had in a year.

It was just... it was thrilling to be able to hug him

but then I had to let him go and go to this horrible place

for something he didn't do.

When I start thinking about

what all they go through in prison,

my mind... I just can't handle it.

You know, I just start freaking out

when I try to start imagining what Jason's life must be like

or Damien life's must be like.

I heard a lot of stuff that had happened to Damien,

but it's really really hard to deal with.

You're in a position where you can't do anything.

And if you stop and think about it very much,

some of the things that are done to him...

It-it... I think it could make you lose your mind,

knowing that something like that's being done to your child.

Because what's happened to them in prison, it's gonna...

it's gonna affect them for the rest of their lives.

When they come home, it will never be...

it'll never be like it ever was.

Because these...

these boys were just children too.

Whenever these little boys were murdered,

our boys were just children too.

I never knew what hell could be like

until these last four years.

My whole life has changed.

I lost my home,

my job.

Nothing seems to matter anymore.

Kind of like that song. I got a song I dedicated to Jason.

It's "nothing else matters" by Metallica.

That's my song to him, because really,

I feel like most of the time

nothing else matters to me but getting Jason home

and I just don't know how I do it.

Damien, when our visiting time's over

he always stands up and puts his hand against the glass

for me to put mine against his.

We're not actually touching, but we are.

It's in the heart anyway.

♪ So close no matter how far ♪

♪ couldn't be much more from the heart ♪

♪ forever trusting who we are ♪

♪ and nothing else matters. ♪

If you could speak to the families

of these kids who think you did it,

you know, what would you say to them?

I don't know.

If I could talk to the families of the victims right now,

I don't know really what I'd say.

Just... they were led to believe by the police

that we'd done it and so I understand that they hate us,

you know, hate me,

but I didn't do it, you know.

I didn't have anything to do with it.

I'm sorry that your kids are dead. I'm sorry about that.

I'm really sorry about all that

'cause I don't have a kid, but if I was my little brother,

I'd be real angry at whoever had done it.

But all I ask is

y'all go back and look at the evidence.

Just stop and think and don't let your emotions about it all

get to your head.

Just stop and think and look back at the evidence

and look where the evidence does point.

And ask yourself,

"now who do you think really done it?"

You know, because...

It was a great tragedy that your kids was killed,

but it's also another great tragedy

that American citizens, anybody in today's public

can just be picked up for a crime they didn't commit

and be convicted of it without no evidence.

That's another tragedy.

On this particular case

you have the fortune of having what appears to be bite-Mark evidence

right there on the face that was not originally mentioned, documented or what have you.

But these type of bite marks are... there are two kinds...

wait a minute. Are you talking about bite marks

- on the outside of this victim's face? - That's right.

- Not superficial bite marks... - No.

...on the inside of their mouth caused by their own teeth?

Not superficial on the inside caused by their own teeth.

There are what appears to be bite marks

all over certain parts of these children's bodies.

Well, did he miss that? Or did he...

- I don't remember seeing it. - It's not in the autopsy report.

And the great thing about bite-Mark evidence is bite-Mark evidence is like...

it's just as good as a fingerprint and it's better than DNA.

Because bite-Mark evidence indicates a specific person

committing a specific behavior. The bite Mark indicates

that you bit somebody at a certain spot at a certain time.

So if we have somebody biting this individual here... a certain person...

we have a specific behavior tied to a specific person.

So that's the best kind of evidence, as far as I'm concerned

for this type of crime.

Whenever you have teeth marks, it's typically...

if you were to show this to an emergency-room pathologist

who'd seen a lot of these, he would arrest the mom,

because it's more typically resembling

the type that's involved in cases of child abuse.

We have a mother of a victim who is no longer alive.

- Right. - Melissa Byers has been dead since march of '96.

I don't see any reason why her autopsy

should still be... be sealed.

They claim they are still conducting a criminal investigation,

but, uh, how long does it take to...

again in this particular case,

since what you've told me is that the death is undetermined,

they can keep it open as long as they want.

But the problem is, if they are keeping it open,

that means they don't know whether it's a suicide or a homicide

and that means it's undetermined which means it's an equivocal death.

But it's important to this case. And the reason I originally asked you for the materials

is because I'd like to know if there's a connection. I'd like to see her wounds.

I'd like to see if there's any wounds on her.

I'd like to see if there's a connection between this case and that case.

And the reality is that I would like also...

Also if you get a forensic odontologist in here at any point in time,

they can yank her teeth and see if they match

any of the bite-Mark impressions.

Because we need to, at least... if there's nothing wrong, if there's no connection,

we need to establish that there's no connection to these deaths.

I've wondered why it's been almost two years...

and I have called everybody they've told me to call

about getting a death certificate

or an autopsy report on my wife and they won't release it.

The newspaper people have called... they won't release it.

They want to say it's still pending. What's still pending?

If they can't say cause of death wasn't anything but a heart attack,

all they've said was a prescription medication that she was taking

was found in her bloodstream and a foreign drug.

They never would release what the foreign drug was.

I don't know.

I mean, I don't know what caused her to die.

They won't tell me. And I think that just gives people suspicion.

The police up there, they didn't care about us.

They didn't care about her dying

and they're still throwing gas on the fire

because if there ain't nothing to hide,

why won't they give me the paperwork that I'm entitled to?

Either that or bring charges against you...

- either one or the other. - They ain't got no charges

to bring against me because I didn't do nothing.

I know that, I know. You know, I ain't got a doubt in my mind on that,

but that's... that's... like you said, that's not the point.

Two years and they won't release it.

They're just holding it open so people can sit out here

and draw their own conclusions

and tell it like they want it to go.

Because people would rather talk any day of the week

about somebody else than sit and talk about their own problems.

I mean, what do you think it makes me feel like when I hear people say,

"I believe you killed Christopher.

I believe you had something to do with killing Melissa"?

I can't tell you how it hurts.

Man, it tears me apart.

And go into a grocery store, go anywhere,

and I'm subject to walking into a fool who'll say that.

You all been with me when people walk up and say "don't I know you?

- Wasn't you the baby-killer on TV?" - Yeah.

Well, I've been in two fights myself over it.

What was it?

Well, at a bar one night there in marked tree,

a dude come up and said, "yeah, that sorry Mark Byers.

Hell, them boys didn't kill his kid. He was in on that.

He was probably the ringleader on it."

Uh, excuse my French, but I stomped his ass right there on the spot.

You know, I've had an ignorant woman,

she was a schoolteacher there in west Memphis,

taught Jessie Misskelley in his G.E.D.... You know, his alternative school?

- Yeah. - And this woman showed the movie "paradise lost"

and talked about how that I was basically guilty for it,

and that the police and everything framed them three

and there was no cult,

and Jessie Misskelley was a good loving boy

and just such a kind person.

Those three animals took my baby from me

and they took my wife from me.

And I self-destructed.

And, buddy, I'm telling you about it, I got downright mean.

The pain they've caused me,

it cost me physically and mentally

and all the fights and all that I got into

because I went to looking for them,

and the bricks that hit me in the head

and the knives that cut these scars on my face

and the jerks that had the privilege

of knocking teeth out of my mouth,

well, that's because of them three animals

that provoked me so to get into a violent rage like I had.

And that's what it cost me... a whole set of teeth.

But that's all right because they're gonna pay for it.

And I can't imagine why people

want to say the things that they say about me.

I mean, what do you all think?

Why the hell do people want to try to accuse me of being involved in that?

You've always been an out-front person.

You've been a leader, not a follower.

I was not meaning to be an individual...

Well no, but you could have been.

I mean, you could be mean when mean gets mean. You can get mean.

- You've always been that way. - People just don't know you.

It's the only reason they're talking like they are about you.

Because if they knew anything about you, they wouldn't be saying it.

And I can't tell you all how much I love you, you know,

for being closer than a brother, but always being there for me.

I've been there and I'm gonna be there

- and I'll be there until... until hell freezes over. - I know you will.

If you wasn't worthy of it, it wouldn't be there.

- You've got my word on that. - You ain't giving me nothing for nothing, are you?

- No, sir. - Ain't nothing for free, is it?

- Huh-uh. - And have I paid my dues?

- Yes sir, you sure have. - You're damned right.

- You damned right. - And the world needs to know about it, don't they?

- They sure do. - They need to know the truth

and that's what we's sitting here talking about is the truth.

- That's right. - And the devil-worshipping son of a bitches

are the murderers out there, not the victims.

- There it is. - And there's three families that's victims.

And I'd just like to catch those three.

If you ever get within arm's reach of this arm right here,

you a paid-for son of a bitch.

You've got my word on it.

Damien, how much hope do you have of a favorable ruling?

I know this is hard on you.

Why is it so important for you to be here,

for your son to see you in the courtroom?

There's no reason for them to be here. They were falsely accused.

The west Memphis police department did a botched job

just to get these boys arrested.

Somebody had to be arrested. It's ridiculous.

- Do you feel like the HBO film affected this case? - I think it helped a lot.

- You think it helped? - Yes, I do.

- It helped your son? - Yes, I think so.

- Why's that? - How is that?

Um, I just think that it shows enough of both sides

to where

you can kind of see a personal side of Damien.

Do you feel like that his attorneys,

that his former attorney did not do an adequate job?

Well, from what I'm seeing, it looks like he didn't.

What is the personal side of Damien?

- Um... - You know him better than anyone.

He's very much like myself.

He usually keeps to himself

and he doesn't really ever bother anyone.

We're both very private.

So what do you hope happens when this wraps up?

I hope everyone can see this for the joke that it really is.

Okay.

Five seconds.

3:30, Tim, 3:30. Two seconds.

Daniel stidham... he defended

one of the three individuals convicted in this case, Jessie Misskelley.

Thank you for being with us. All right, Damien echols...

Uh, he received money which was supposed to aid in his defense.

How does this harm his trial, his right to a fair trail?

In my opinion, Gregg, it didn't.

I-i... I personally don't subscribe to that point of view.

Gregg Jarre interesting. Let me turn now to ray brown

who is a veteran criminal defense attorney and our colleague here at court TV.

Is there a conflict of interest here?

Mr. Stidham, who was involved in it himself, doesn't think so.

Let's get to the real question, Gregg, which is that

because this country is, in many areas, so strongly in favor of death penalty

that we underfund the defense. I think Mr. Stidham can tell you

that he earned something like $19 an hour

for his representation of his client.

The lawyers for echols got a little bit more,

but nowhere near the money needed...

and $1,000 limit on money for experts

in a case that is fairly saturated with scientific proof.

So this is the kind of case in which

we have to look at the question of whether the defendants were given a war chest.

Because it's really the argument of the defense here

that, in fact, the lawyers for echols

were forced to make some kind of an agreement that involved

letting their client's conversations be overheard

because they didn't have the resources to fight the case.

Not something to be lightly tossed away or endangered.

Daniel stidham, if you had had a lot of money,

what would you have done with it?

We would do some of the things that we're doing right now

with regard to the forensic evidence.

Jarre all right, Dan Stidham,

anybody who defends somebody in a capital death penalty case,

I take my hat off to you.

You're deserving of many thanks for that,

regardless of the circumstances, guilt or innocence.

And thank you for being with us.

We appreciate it.

How can the medical examiner,

when he conducts an autopsy, how can he miss

a bite Mark on... on... on the victim's face?

The reality is with any kind of physical evidence,

with any kind of physical imprint of evidence like that

or pattern injuries like that, you have to really be trained to look for them.

If you're not looking for it you're not going to find it.

And in this particular case, you have a preponderance of bite-Mark evidence

that seems very good and you're likely to get a very good result off of.

Bite-Mark evidence is the kind of evidence that got Bundy

and that's the kind of evidence that's going to get

the individual who's responsible for these crimes.

We really have to be careful to protect the information

that we have in that report, and not disseminate it to individuals

who are potentially going to release it.

Because in my experience in cases that I've worked on

when there's an offender who finds out there's bite-Mark evidence

that's potentially going to be used against them, even in prison,

they're going to be making a visit to the prison dentist

and they're going to have those teeth removed

because they do not want that evidence linked back to them.

They know that bite-Mark evidence

is just as good as a fingerprint in a court of law.

Mark, are you married?

No sir, I'm widowed.

My wife passed away march 29th of '96.

I'm sorry to hear that. March 29th of '96.

- Where was this at? - In Cherokee village.

Cherokee village. A natural death?

Uh, cause of death undeterminable.

What do you...

do you have any feelings about it? I mean...

- Yes sir. - What are they, if you want to reveal it to me?

My wife had given up her will to live

after our baby was murdered.

And she just didn't want to live anymore.

And she got into an addiction

and I think the addiction helped kill her.

- Drugs? - Yes sir.

- What... what type? - Dilaudid.

Have you had any other problems with the police?

Not major, no sir.

You've had problems, is that what you saying?

Oh well, speeding tickets,

I got a d.W.I. One time after my wife was murdered.

Uh, nothing really major, no.

- No robbery, no stealing? - Oh no. No felonies or anything like that.

Okay.

From what I see, what you're telling me is

you are not a hateful mean person,

you're not the kind of person who goes around

causing distress to people. You don't steal. You don't...

you don't go out of your way to harm people...

- No sir. - ...Or anything like this.

- I pretty much... - and you said there was maybe one time ever

that you had hurt someone in a fight or something.

Oh, I'm sure. In football games I hurt people, you know.

Yeah, but you know football's one thing,

but did you got out there meaning to hurt somebody?

Oh no, I went out there for the sport of the game, you know.

If you do something, I think that kind of comes with the territory.

If you get hurt, it comes with it,

now if somebody intentionally low-blocks you

or trips you to injure you, that's one thing.

- Did you ever do that? - No sir.

I played tight end. I caught the ball and ran.

Did you ever want to hurt somebody?

Yes sir, there's three people right now I'd like to hurt.

With the exception of those three people?

No sir.

There were a number of people

that looked like good suspects initially.

Like a phone call would come in

and you would start checking on it

and it was like, hey, we may have something here.

And then you'd find out,

well no, there's no way this person could have done it.

So I mean, I think at the time I referred to it as

"an emotional roller coaster."

You just had ups and downs, ups and downs.

And that just wears you out.

I know that for a period of time,

a couple of weeks into the case...

maybe two to three weeks into the case,

at that point I was personally feeling like

Damien was responsible for this.

And I got to the point where I could see him

at the doorway of my bedroom.

I'm sure a lot of that had to do with

just being exhausted physically and mentally and no sleep.

But just really really even becoming

a little paranoid and terrified myself.

I think Gary gitchell has an overactive imagination.

I believe deep in his heart that he knows

that we did not commit those murders.

But now it's too late for him to come forward and say that...

to say he made a mistake. And at this point in time,

I mean, that would... it's just something he can't do now.

So I think he's kind of been playing this part for so long

that now he probably believes

this part he's been playing himself.

He's fooled himself into thinking it's true.

Okay, here's the question: Bill says,

what did you think of "paradise lost" and your haircut then?

That haircut was actually given to me

about five minutes before the hearing,

by a woman in the back room

with a pair of plastic scissors.

I was not to blame for that haircut.

As for the movie itself,

it was very emotional for me.

I think I went through the entire range of emotions

while I was watching it.

I think it made me a little homesick.

- Really? - Yeah.

Was it weird to see Jason again?

Yeah, he didn't even look like I remembered,

I guess because so many years have gone by

that I had begun to forget what he looked like

until I saw him on there.

And when I was looking at that,

we were both children. We were still kids.

The entire way that I carried myself back then,

my entire demeanor back then as compared to now,

I think I've changed a very great deal.

Did you feel roped into doing "paradise lost,"

forced into it? Or did you pretty much trust these guys?

No no, I wanted to do it.

You know, at the time we needed some kind of positive publicity

or at least some way, some kind of forum

to express what I wanted to say

to kind of combat just what the prosecution was releasing

to the media, some kind of objective thing where

I could actually express something.

But I also did it because I just thought it would be fun.

So you trusted the filmmakers pretty much

to do a fair portrayal of what was going on?

Yeah, I trusted them. But at the same time even if I didn't,

- what did I have to lose? - This is true.

What did you think of Byers?

I think Byers is probably the fakest creature

to ever walk on two legs.

I don't think there's a true thing about him.

He puts on all these false faces.

He'll act one way whenever they have cameras on him

and another way when he's by himself.

He has about 30 different faces.

So seeing him in the movie didn't change

how... any of your opinions about him then?

Well, I think it reinforced

the opinions that I have about him.

I still believe with all my heart

that he is the person who killed those three children.

- And... - Alone?

I have no sympathy for Byers.

I'm sitting here on death row for a crime that he committed.

That in itself is enough to make me have no sympathy for him...

but then also the fact that he killed three little kids.

Do you think Melissa had anything to do with it?

I don't think she actually participated

in the act of killing them,

but I think she participated in covering it up.

I firmly believe that she knew,

and I think that's why she's dead now.

If you could say... if you could give Byers a message, what would it be?

I wouldn't say anything to Mark Byers.

Mark Byers is beneath me.

He doesn't even deserve my contempt.

You butchered my babies out here.

I swore that I'd stand at your grave and cuss it.

Well, I'm doing it a little bit early.

I'm going to Bury you three bastards right here

and send you to hell.

This crime scene tape,

that come off of what they stretched in front of me

when they found my babies out here...

wouldn't let me by.

I thought it was just fitting

to bring it back to your memorial fund.

Jessie, you got your flowers.

That's your head marker, you animal.

To Damien...

Jason, there's yours.

You want to worship the devil?

See him. I'm going to give you a farewell party.

Now we're going to have some fun.

I'm going to try to help send you on your way.

You done got all of my blessings, which aren't none.

What you think, you ready to die?

Fire for fire

and death for death.

Live through this fire, you animal.

What, it ain't hot enough for you?

This is the ditch that you killed them in,

do you remember?

You wanted to eat my baby's testicles?

Burn, you son of a bitch, burn.

Burn and go to hell! Burn!

Can you remember screaming and hearing them holler?

I stomp on your grave! I stomp on your grave!

I stomp on your grave!

Burn and go to hell!

Burn you like you deserve to burn.

♪ Well, dolls of voodoo ♪

♪ all stuck with pins ♪

♪ one for each of us and our sins... ♪

Looking at young people involved in the occult,

do you see any particular type of dress?

I have personally observed people wearing, um,

black fingernails,

having their hair painted black,

wearing black t-shirts,

sometimes they will tattoo themselves.

Look at history.

Look at hundreds of years of religious history.

There have been hundreds of people killed

in the name of religion.

It is a motivating force.

It gives people who want to do evil,

want to commit murders, a reason to do what they're doing.

West Memphis is pretty much

like a second Salem, you know.

'Cause everything that happens there... every crime

no matter what it is, it's blamed on satanism.

This case has attracted a lot of young people

that relate to Damien.

And it scared the hell out of them so that's why they want to be there.

And yet, you've got to tell them,

if they dress in black, man, that's not going to help Damien at all,

'cause it's just going to look like Damien has a cult following.

We dressed in suits and they still thought we were in a cult.

So I mean if we get people at the hearing

that insist on dressing in all their goth glory,

then it's just going to confirm everything that they think...

that there's still a cult,

that Damien's still controlling the cult from prison.

I mean people were telling me that stuff... I mean reporters.

I was asked by a reporter if I was a member of Damien's cult.

- Me too. - And I'm standing there wearing a suit.

I thought I was dressed like a guy,

like a normal person, you know.

But the, um... I think what we were trying to do is

we don't want to give them any fuel for that.

- That's nuts. - I think they're sort of afraid if they dress conservative

they're going to be on the other side, "the enemy side."

Like they have to dress like Damien or something

if they want to be on his side. I don't know what that is.

Well, look how he dresses now in court, you know.

- He wears all white in prison. - Yeah.

And when he goes to court he's wearing, you know, like, nice clothes.

I mean he's grown up a lot.

A lot of people only know Damien from the movie,

so they see these little bits of Damien in the movie

and that's what they think they're reacting to.

But they don't realize that's, like, five years ago.

I want to remind you this is a fundraiser

so I want you to give from your heart because these young men

are kind of counting on us.

And just for the record, anyone... if you know someone

that hasn't been able to make it here today,

or for whatever reason left early,

if you'll remind them this cauldron's going to be available

for the next couple of weeks to continue to add to.

I'm puttin' money in here because I want Damien

to be able to go to college outside of prison.

I want him to go to a real school.

Really soon.

And remember too that he had the courage to say

he was wiccan in adversity

when he knew that it would cost him a lot.

All of us who are here are here because

we enjoy knowing

that there is religious freedom,

hopefully somewhere, that we all respect each other

for our beliefs, for our loves, for everything that we have.

They wrote it off as something, "we don't understand that.

It's got to be the work of the devil."

Well, you know, Wicca... Wiccans

don't believe in the devil, okay?

The devil is a Christian deity.

They use the devil... or they believe that the devil

is something that causes them to do evil things.

And in the wiccan read, in the wiccan tradition, those folks believe

that you are 100% responsible for your actions.

And they believe in the law of three...

...Whatever you do comes back on you threefold.

If you put out good energy, that's coming back to you threefold.

If you put out negative energy and dark energy,

that's coming back on you threefold.

That is what the wiccan means.

I know that, as a wiccan

that every religion is important to me

and if I felt like... even Christians...

that they were having their right to be rel...

you know they couldn't practice in their way, I would defend that.

It's not about just me being wiccan,

this is about how did this affect three little boys

whose murderers, I personally believe, went unfounded.

And there's three young men who are in jail

and one of them's there and he's on death row

just because he said "I'm wiccan."

Can you explain to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury

what... some principles about the Wicca religion?

Um, it acknowledges a goddess

in a higher regard as a god

because people have always said

"we're all god's children" and men cannot have children.

Um, it's basically like

a close involvement with nature.

Okay, here's the question:

"I was wondering what made you go change your religion back to catholic?"

I haven't changed my religion to anything.

At this point in time

I don't really make any distinctions

between religions anymore.

And they say that a lot of people in prison find god.

Well, I never knew god was lost.

And, um, I just...

I don't like to put a label over myself anymore.

Did you ever?

Well, at one time I didn't really mind

because I thought maybe there was some sort of

distinction between religions.

But then I realized that there's not.

I think all religions basically teach...

Your time limit is about to be exceeded.

Your call will be terminated in 30 seconds.

I think all religions basically teach the same message

and I think it's the people who...

who create all these dogmas and strict rules

and try to enforce this belief

that if you don't believe the way they do,

that you're going to suffer.

Have you forgotten this face?

I hope not.

'Cause it's going to come visit you

when you die and look up from hell.

It'll be just like Lazarus and the rich man.

Lazarus at Abraham's bosom,

the rich man looks up from hell.

What's he do?

Beg for a drop of water.

None was given.

You'll beg

'cause my baby shall put his foot across your neck.

How do I know that?

Well, it's an easy song... "the Bible tells me so."

And there's so much in here that's in store for you.

If you don't have one, rush out to your nearest bookstore

and get one, you lowlife.

Have the Gideons mail you one.

Read it, live it, believe it.

It is your destiny.

Hell awaits you.

- Who's going to talk? - Burk's gonna talk here.

Okay, burk, tell 'em what it is.

- We got everybody in here? - Who am I telling?

We have most of the people here.

Well, this... should I just start talking?

Yeah, go ahead.

Okay, this is a... this is a collection of postcards

that we've received from people from all over the world

in support of this cause.

They've all written "free the west Memphis three"

all over these postcards.

The goal is actually to deliver this to the governor,

to show the governor the support that these three have.

It's more like a... it's kind of working as a petition

more than it is anything else.

It's a way for people to express their concerns about this.

- Okay. Thanks a lot. - Thank you.

You're watching KATV channel 7, the spirit of Arkansas.

This is channel 7 news at 6:00.

Did defense attorneys sabotage Damien echols' case

by sitting on potentially explosive evidence?

His new attorneys think so.

Edward mallett says the men who represented echols in his first trial

not only botched the case by selling the story to HBO,

but they failed to investigate obvious leads.

Mallett also claims that he has new evidence

of a human bite Mark on one of the victims.

Judge David Burnett granted his motion

to get bite-Mark impressions from Damien's two codefendants.

Under cross-examination, val price,

echols' previous attorney,

testified that he did his best to represent echols.

But Brent turvey, a forensic scientist, disagrees.

He says price sat on critical evidence,

namely bite marks he's found on the victims' bodies.

That kind of stuff is like absolute proof of who did this.

I mean if they can get bite impressions, it's like...

- It's like a fingerprint. - It's done.

They can identify who it is, period.

- Or we can at least exclude these three boys... - Yeah.

...who that we have no question that they're innocent.

So that's one way of trying to prove that.

The three they got are the three that did it.

You are entitled to your opinion,

but to spread your propaganda

that you believe they are innocent, I think is crap.

- Bite marks aren't propaganda. That's solid 100% evidence. - It's fact.

- It hasn't been proven they're bite marks yet though. - It has been.

And you're very convinced 100% they're guilty, right?

- No doubt. - And you're 100% convinced of your own innocence.

- So why don't you... - no doubt in my mind about it.

Why don't you give your bite impressions to the defense?

Do you think that I'm guilty,

that I had something to do with murdering my son?

We're not saying anything about that.

I don't know if you had anything to do with it.

I want to know that you didn't, and that would be

- by giving your bite impression. - Rule yourself out for it.

I've already been exonerated. What else do I have to do?

The public's been kind of suspicious of you.

What happened to Melissa?

I believe she died from a broken heart.

But you were there, so you saw something.

I was asleep beside her and woke up and found her passed away beside me.

There were no bruises, abrasions, anything like that

of any foul play whatsoever.

I've been totally exonerated.

All charges or suspicion of anything dropped.

Well, I do know there was a toxicology report

and they talked about actually quite a lot of drugs that were in her system.

Yes, a lot of prescription drugs that she was taking, they sure did.

Also some prescription drugs she wasn't taking.

She took like seven or eight different types of medication

for being bipolar, manic depressive, post-traumatic syndrome.

And as far as the other medication,

I'm as puzzled about it as anyone.

I read in the newspaper... it was actually "the Arkansas times"...

- yes. - Mara Leveritt said that there were signs she was suffocated.

There were no signs of suffocation or struggle.

She was laying right there on the bed

when the paramedics and all came in.

If someone published something in the newspaper about me

that was suspicious like that, that pointed the finger at me

and said I was this and said I was that,

I'd want to prove to somebody

that I had nothing to do with it.

Okay, then tell me what I have not done

to prove that I have not been involved in any of it.

I have no problem with a polygraph, sodium pentothal,

being hypnotized, bite marks or anything else,

which I've submitted to every test they've asked,

every question they have asked because I know my innocence.

They didn't have bite-Mark impressions.

Did they take your bite-Mark impressions?

I mean if you're that convinced...

dental records.

You know, how could you give your bite impressions

if you don't have your teeth?

Maybe that's why you're not so reluctant to do it.

Well, what if I told you that the teeth that I had before

they were pulled or the teeth that I had during it,

I know the oral surgeons and all that did the work

and I would be glad to sign a release

- for them to send my x-rays. - Will you do that?

If need be. Like I said, I've cooperated with the police.

Would you do that for us and send it to Dan stidham?

I won't do a damn thing for you.

- Do it for Dan stidham. - Do it for your kid.

Do it... just do it to prove us wrong.

I don't have to prove one damn thing to you.

If it turns out that we're wrong,

we'll admit it, I promise you.

Bend over and put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye,

'cause you're going to be wrong.

I think you all are fighting a lost cause.

We're just trying to get to the truth.

As a young boy at the age of 13,

I started down many of the wrong roads

that a lot of teenagers will go down.

I remember the first dollar I stole

was out of my mama's purse.

The first people I stole from were my parents.

Boy, it just went down a rough and rugged road from there.

I can remember quite vividly the day that I came to

from a comatose state.

I had overdosed in my parents' home.

The next day, they were on the phone

with my brother-in-law and sister down in Jackson, Mississippi.

Said, "will you all take him? He's out of control.

We can't do anything with him."

I saw my brother-in-law, a big tall red-headed feller

and I said, "you don't know all the wrongs I've done."

He said, "well, let me show you over here."

He explained to me about the apostle Paul.

He said, "don't get up there and think that you're the worst that's been."

He said, "the apostle Paul's already took that privilege

and he says I am the chief sinner."

So I thought, "well, if the lord could save the apostle Paul

and look beyond his sins, he could save me too."

When this last tragedy came into our life,

I stood by my son's casket

and I said, "oh god, help me.

Lord, I'm looking to you.

I want to be the dad that stands in the gap,

that will stand for you

regardless to what the world says.

I don't care.

Lord, I can't do this on my own.

I need you."

And you know there was a peace

that surpassed all understanding

that came upon me in that funeral home.

And I thought, "thank god for that."

Thank the lord, for after 20-something years

of living like a savage on this earth,

that he knocked at my heart's door and spoke to me.

And I'm so glad I invited him in.

I'd want to know who in the community

had access to those victims, who would be trusted with those kids.

I'd want to know what the relationships were in that community,

because who was killed tells you why they were killed.

Look at how clear of a line we're drawing

between the homicide and the behavior of Chris... of Chris Byers.

My feeling is that this kid was being abused.

Chris Byers was setting fires.

He was playing with his own excrement.

He was beating up other kids, picking fights.

He was, uh... he was on Ritalin...

the doctor was saying he was going to hospitalize him.

He was a kid who had behavioral problems

and problems of being defiant and violent and aggressive and impulsive

for at least three years that this neurologist had been seeing him.

And this doctor in his report states,

I'm giving this kid... I've been prescribing him Ritalin

for the past three years, nothing's come of it.

Not that he... I can't under... he even says,

"it does not... it does not make sense to me.

I'm at a loss to explain why his behavior has not abated."

'Cause what Ritalin is it's a kiddie depressant.

What it does is it takes kids and makes them...

it makes them more docile.

But Ritalin is a funny drug. And it's my understanding...

and you'll have to talk to somebody who really knows what he's talking about...

but it's my understanding that in adults, Ritalin is like speed.

It has the exact opposite effect.

So you think that maybe the kid wasn't getting the prescription...

if he was getting the prescription,

he wouldn't have been exhibiting those behaviors.

And he was exhibiting those behaviors.

So my only thought would be that

he was not getting his prescription.

They had a little book they wrote in at school.

I still can't go through a lot of his things.

It's still too painful.

- It's his journal. - It's his journal.

And it was on a Wednesday.

And he had written nothing on the page except just

"I love my mommy."

And that's all he'd written on the page.

And I know that if he could come to me,

he would say, "mommy, it's okay,"

and "I'm all right

and you need to be all right too.

And I still love you and I love daddy and I love Ryan.

Now I want you to pull yourself together, mommy,

and I want you to go ahead and live

because I'm okay now. I'm okay.

I'm all right.

You don't have to worry about me."

What was your relationship with your wife?

Did y'all get along pretty good?

As long as I could keep her from using, we did.

I could keep her off of it a couple of months

and she'd go back to it.

The first rehab I put her in

was nine months after we were married.

And I had a doctor tell me then

that y'all just go ahead and divorce her.

He said, "you know, heroin junkies, one out of..."

I don't know what the statistic exactly is, he said, "...ever stay clean.

This is just going to cause you a lot of pain and misery."

- Do you use drugs? - No sir.

- Have you ever used drugs? - Yes sir.

What did... what?

Marijuana. I've tried coke, some pills.

- Did you ever have a habit? - No sir, never been...

you were just casually experimenting?

Just experimenting as a teenager and going to college.

- Do you have a brain tumor? - Yes sir.

Is it troubling you now? Have you got it under control?

Well, I’m... I'm under a doctor's care.

- Are you taking medication? - Yes sir.

What, what?

Is it, uh... well, just tell me what it is,

tell me what it is. Tell me what it does.

- Uh... - Is it for a nervous condition?

- Yes sir. - Okay.

It helps... it helps me for my anxiety and panic attacks

and the terrible nightmares that I have

when I go to sleep a lot of times.

Have you taken your dosage today?

This one is in the morning.

This one's in the evening.

This one's in the evening.

This one's three times a day.

And this one's three times a day.

The Xanax on me works like Ritalin does on children.

What happens when you don't take this?

I'll get real nervous and just like my...

kind of paranoid feeling.

I'll just have panic attacks.

Your doctor said that you had a multitude of psychiatric problems.

What does he mean by that?

Have you been diagnosed as having a particular,

some sort of psychiatric condition that has a name to it

that they've told you about or anything?

Just from what she said,

"manic-depressive, post-traumatic stress syndrome."

You ever hallucinate?

Yes sir, I have.

I've seen a bug on the floor or something,

that's usually when I'm in a manic or a panic attack.

It'll seem like I'll see things out of the corner of my eye

and it's really not there.

Have you ever believed that you might have been involved somehow...

- No sir, no sir. - ...With those little boys dying?

You've never had any hallucinations or anything dealing with that?

Only nightmares of hearing my son crying for help

and I couldn't help him 'cause I didn't know where he was.

Michael Moore was found in this area right here at the bottom of the screen.

Steve branch was found just behind

where these trees are in the stream.

And Christopher Byers was found just below that body right here.

This is exhibit 22, which is...

...The body of Michael Moore,

after removing him from the water from where he was found.

This is the body of Steve branch.

Steve branch is the young man that had the injuries to his face.

Was it a particular part of his face?

The left side as you can see on there.

Defense exhibit 24 is the body of Christopher Byers.

And what kind of injuries

did Chris Byers have that you observed?

It looked as though his penis had been removed.

When they were describing the injuries to my son,

of course I didn't see many of the photos

but just hearing the description,

uh, it brought back things

that had happened to me in my past

when... ahem... I was tortured

and when I was attacked

and when I had...

had five people beat me up and torture me,

but I lived through it.

And it brought back all those feelings

and all those emotions of it happening to me.

And it was like they were reading off what happened to me

and I lived through it instead of what happened to Christopher.

And it was just almost like a mental thing.

It just, uh... I basically just had a mental breakdown

from just, you know, from hearing it.

It was like a living nightmare,

reliving it all over again,

except it wasn't me that they were reading it about. It was my son.

Uh, for my brain tumor.

It's been acting up, giving me a lot of problems.

I just passed out the other day

and busted my head open in the house,

- blacked out, hit the door facing. - Jeez.

It's going to have to be operated on soon.

- When are you going to do that? - Probably after Christmas.

Yeah?

- Is some of these Jonesboro folks? - Huh?

- Is this some of these Jonesboro folks? - I don't know.

- Or are they all out from west? - All over the place.

There's about six or eight from Arkansas, I think.

- We got Ohio, we got... - New Jersey.

- New Jersey. - Illinois.

California. Tennessee.

They say ignorance spreads real fast.

Hey, why are you being so mean to us now all of a sudden

- when the cameras are rolling? - I'm not being mean.

You're so nice to us when the cameras are off.

I'm not being mean to you. I'm just speaking my mind.

- You are two people. - No.

Yeah, you are. You were my buddy last time. What happened?

I never said you was my best friend, you know.

Well, you were nice to me at least.

Now you're telling me I'm ignorant and an idiot and all that.

It's like when the cameras roll I'm an idiot,

when they're not, we're buddies. What's up with that?

The truth hurts. Might as well be on film.

Okay, so this is the truth?

So when the cameras stop that's not the truth?

- No. - That's the untrue part.

- No. - Which one's true?

The way I act around you is one thing.

Two things. Which one's real though?

Which one you think's real?

- I don't know. - Well, I guess it'll stay a mystery then.

Okay.

Mark, did you ever give your bite impressions to the defense?

There's not going to be any need to do that.

I'll be taking a polygraph very soon.

And when that's all cleared, why should I give bite marks?

Just that the bite marks would exclude you absolutely.

- I think that would be good. - Bite marks would exclude me anyway.

I don't have any teeth. These are dentures.

- The bottom ones are too? - Yeah.

So you're going to take bite marks of two gum prints?

- Gimme a break. - Or some old dental records.

They were done before the kids were murdered.

Strikes all that theory out.

When did you get your dentures?

'Cause I think I remember on the steps you said that

that was a little... you said it was after the kids.

It was right then.

You had your dentures right when they died?

No, I've had them since '93... the start.

'Cause last time you said it was after.

- My mistake. - How did you lose your teeth?

Because I've heard you lost 'em but not how.

Because I was taking tegretol for my epileptic seizures.

And tegretol causes periodontal disease

and they all started rotting and falling and coming out.

They just fall out? You didn't have to pull 'em?

Yeah, you have periodontal disease.

That's when the gums literally move away from your teeth.

It's my understanding that the odontologist

has now reviewed bite-Mark impressions from all three defendants,

compared them with the bite Mark which

the odontologist has identified.

And we can exclude the three defendants who've been convicted

as the person who made that bite Mark.

What's exciting about this is

we now know that this kid was bitten by someone

and this someone was not any of the three defendants.

And it's just... I wish and pray

that this information would have been available to us back at trial.

I think the result would have been dramatically different.

This is the interesting thing:

Brent Davis, the prosecutor, claims that

this is not a bite Mark.

But as frank peretti... who performed the original autopsy...

says, that this is a bell-shaped pattern abrasion

that is consistent with a belt buckle.

They're interpreting, having... looking back at this injury,

they're interpreting it... and it's only a two-dimen...

this is a two-dimensional surface.

If we were looking at a three-dimensional surface

we would see that this actually creates a circle

because the eye socket curves in and curves under.

The two-dimensional photograph makes it look like a bell shape.

Basically they're going to put on two guys...

one of which did the original autopsy

and missed this bite Mark

and basically state that this isn't a bite Mark.

The bottom line here is that this is not legal trickery.

This is hard physical evidence of somebody else

committing this crime.

I know you've been here for just about every hearing.

Can you tell me your opinion on this?

I think the fact that there's bite marks and they don't match the three

is pretty much proof that they didn't do this.

And the big thing now is that for the first time in the history of this case,

we've got qualified experts involved. It's as simple as that.

What does he think it will do to his case?

Well, he knows he's gonna be out of prison before long.

Eventually the truth is gonna come out.

- Are you gonna be here till the end? - Yes.

I'm gonna be here however many times it takes.

- Have you been following the case? - No.

You know, but I seen what happened.

- You saw what happened? - Mm-hmm.

- What happened? - I'm not sure if the three boys done it or not,

but three boys were there... excuse me...

the three boys were there,

but there's one more that's running around loose right now.

- And he lives here in Jonesboro right now. - Who he is?

Mark Byers.

You believe Mark Byers had something to do with this?

He-he was holding a knife.

What more proof do you need? He was holding a knife.

The three boys were not holding a knife. Mark Byers was.

- And how did you witness this? - I seen it.

Have you told the police what you saw?

I tried to tell the police, but nobody wants to listen to me.

I've tried to tell the prosecutors, but they don't want to listen to me.

Why don't they want to listen?

I been in an accident before, you know,

and they think I'm all scrambled up.

I'm probably signing my death warrant right now.

I'm probably doing that right now, but I don't care.

- What is your name, sir? - But I don't care.

You can get it somewhere else.

I have no more comments.

The guy that you just interviewed over there? That's "sensational."

He's like... he's just like Jessie Misskelley.

He's a guy who's got a story

and you're gonna... I bet... here's my bet...

I don't know what I'm gonna do...

we're gonna see that on the news tonight.

I don't know what I'm gonna do.

And it's gonna be "big groundbreaking revelation confession."

- And you guys are gonna... - just as long as that's not the only thing.

Don't pre-empt everything else to show that.

But I wonder if you're gonna use any footage

that you got of Steve baker or anything that talks about facts

or anything that was brought up in court today.

Any of the... any of the "news"...

- Yes, I agree it's the news. - ...As opposed to the fiction.

Only one news story that I saw mentioned that the bite-Mark impressions

did not match any of the three boys in jail.

That was the big news yesterday and none of the reporters were here.

And nobody mentioned it except for one news report

that I saw this morning added it as an afterthought.

"Oh, and by the way, none of the bite impressions taken matched."

Well, see, I got that afterwards because I couldn't stay here.

- So I had to call someone. And so I added in... - but you could have asked.

- Everybody dashed out. - Well, we did. We came here.

Oh, I did and I put that at the end of my story.

- I had that at the end of my story. - Okay.

But in the first case,

did the state bring their own odontologist?

No, there was never a mention of bite marks.

They wouldn't have brought an odontologist.

If they had brought an odontologist, that would have suggested

that they knew there were bite marks or some reason to bring one.

But there was no... originally it was either overlooked or ignored,

so they had no reason to bring in an odontologist

because it wasn't mentioned in the first trial.

When would that... I mean, 'cause someone told me that and...

Someone lied to you.

You probably saw it on the news.

I don't...

Maybe.

Now live from your good neighbor station,

this is k8 news at 6.

It was a packed courtroom again

as supporters and families of both victims and convicted

listened to the last day of testimony.

The state called two state medical examiners

who testified they did not find any bite marks.

However, an ondontologist, Dr. Thomas David,

testified for the defense that in his opinion it was a bite Mark.

The state-called Dr. Harry mincer,

also a forensic ondontologist,

said that it was not a human bite Mark.

While the state and defense seesaw back and forth,

Damien's supporters remain optimistic.

- How are you doing? - Fine.

Good. Okay, here's the deal:

- They're gonna talk to me from New York. - Mm-hmm.

You're not gonna be talking to me. We're gonna put an earpiece in.

You're gonna hear Gregg Jarrett. He's the host in New York.

His name Gregg. You can just call him Gregg, if you want to.

- Gotcha. - And when you answer his questions

just look at the camera instead of me.

- Okay? - No problem.

Act like I've done it a hundred times.

You have done it a hundred times.

Run this down your shirt...

- Is he all right? - He's fine. He's fine where he is.

Is my son's picture good?

We're joined now by John Mark Byers,

adoptive father of the victim Christopher Byers.

Thank you for taking the time with us.

- Mark, go ahead. - Mr. Byers?

- They didn't ask me. - Mr. Byers, do you hear me?

He hasn't said a word to me.

- Can you hear him? - No, there's nothing coming through here.

Obviously we're having some technical difficulties.

- Mr. Byers, can you hear me? - This is New York.

- Mr. Byers? - He's not speaking to me.

- Tim, can you...? - Yeah, I can hear you, Gregg.

- Can you hear them now, Mr. Byers? - No, I cannot.

You're okay, Timmy. Don't worry about your Mike.

- I got you dead. - Can you hear him now?

So let's get it checked in and we'll go for the third block.

- Does that make sense, Tim? - Yeah, that's fine.

- See if his thing is kinked. - Mr. Sauls is gonna join us.

It'll be in two minutes.

- Timmy, you still got me right? - I got ya, dom, I got ya.

- Mr. Sauls can you hear me, sir? - Yes.

- You can. - Yes.

- And, Mr. Byers, can you hear me, sir? - Yes, I can.

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Byers joins us again.

Hopefully we've solved the technical problem.

- Can you hear me now? - Yes, I can.

What do you think of echols and the defense team

saying you're the killer?

I have a very good answer for that:

I'm 6'8" and weigh 252 lbs.

I'm the largest red herring

they've ever thrown in a jury box.

Someone else to take the jury's mind

off the three real murderers.

All right, joining us now also is, in Jonesboro, burk Sauls.

He helps run the free the west Memphis three support fund.

Do you believe that Mr. Byers is the real killer?

I don't really...

that's not the point of what we're doing here.

I'm not here to accuse anyone.

That's actually what happened to these three guys.

One of things that I guess a lot of people can't get over

is one of the three defendants... all three were convicted...

Jessie Misskelley confessed.

Uh, how do you account for that?

Well, to the experts that testified in the trial

it was a... it was a...

to them it was a... a forced confession. It was coerced.

What was coercive about it?

For one thing, there was a timeline problem

where he stated it happened early in the day

and they led him down to the time

that they wanted him to say that it had happened.

And he eventually gave 'em what they wanted.

I want to thank all of you for being with us. We appreciate it.

Coming up next on "prime time justice,"

President Clinton's war with independent counsel Ken Starr

isn't over yet.

I really appreciate what y'all have done for them.

I think just the fact that we live in Los Angeles

where there may be some talents, that we can probably

help this case out somewhat.

I know at the airport yesterday there was a young guy

that walked past us and he had on a black shirt,

black pants, black trench coat and black boots.

And I thought...

"You get in trouble in that at some places."

Yeah, welcome to L.A.

50% of the people that live here dress like that.

We were like, "well, there's a guy wearing all black.

There's a woman wearing all black.

There's another guy wearing all black." It's a flattering color.

A lot of the reason that Damien wore the black

was because someone told him that he was sexy in the black.

And then he wore it most of the time.

That's your argument.

That's your argument that these guys are guilty.

It's like, "come on, how silly is this?"

So... and of course it was the media,

that portrayed these guys to start, anything that...

That's what did it.

And I couldn't believe all the...

they overwhelmed us from the very beginning

when they arrested 'em

- and the media attacked them. - Yeah.

See, now it's our turn to use the media to our advantage.

'Cause the first time around there was no critical thinking.

They just reported whatever they might have heard or a rumor.

And they report it and you hear it on the news and you think it's true.

Well, now we have the "Leeza" show to show fact.

For once. You know, it's not emotional.

It's not about how people feel.

It's about facts.

And we're glad to have you guys here too.

It's really important to have your guys' voices be heard.

- Are you guys nervous about the show? - Very.

Just be yourselves. You'll do good.

You'll be fine.

You still a little nervous?

Very. I'm very nervous.

Hello, everyone. Thank you.

Thanks for joining us once again.

How do you feel like the "leeza" show went?

- Do you think it went well or? - I thought it really well.

You could hear people in the background

that didn't know anything about the case,

you could hear 'em coming along as they presented stuff.

Like the first... when the mothers were out there,

there was sort of some skepticism.

You could kind of hear 'em talking,

like no one was sure whether to believe it or not.

And then as more and more came out and you guys were talking more,

you could hear people starting to get angry.

What was the audience reaction about the...

when they learned that all three defendants

had been excluded from making the bite Mark?

It was like, "match the bite Mark, find the killer."

I mean, I think everybody got that.

It was like "okay, so the kids don't match the bite Mark."

I think it sort of sunk in that that means...

the kid shouldn't have a bite Mark on his face.

He didn't leave home with a big fat bite Mark on his face.

If they missed that, what else did they miss?

So did you guys see anything in Byers' interview,

like, did you guys notice the conflicting stories?

What did you read from that?

Did you get anything from that?

Well, obviously, I think he's a little mixed up

about his felony history.

I noticed Byers wasn't wearing his teeth in the interview.

- That's true. - Now what happened with his teeth, do you know?

Well, there's several different versions of what happened.

The first version that I heard was

he got 'em knocked out in a fight.

He changes his story. First, a long time ago he said

he got 'em knocked out in a fight.

Then he told leeza that he had 'em surgically removed.

And he told me that he had taken tegretol

and that they had just kind of rotted out.

- Oh boy. - Burk and grove told me last night

that something about Byers had left his teeth somewhere

and that's why he didn't have them on during the taping.

What was the story on that?

I think the producers of the show said that

um, Byers had told them

that he left them in a restaurant somewhere.

And so his last parting words to the producers

when he was leaving the show,

which he had done without his teeth, is

"I'm not leavin' L.A. without my teeth!"

The test is about to begin.

Is this the month of October?

Yes.

Regarding those deaths,

do you intend to answer truthfully each question about that?

Yes.

Other than what we've talked about,

did you ever wish any person would die?

No.

Did you harm any of those boys?

No.

Other than what we've talked about,

did you ever think about hurting anyone?

No.

Did you harm any of those boys found at Robin hood hills?

No.

The test is over. Remain seated, looking straight ahead.

Here's the website.

This is how all the people find us.

They can come on here and they can read about

everything that's been going on.

It's a pretty good synopsis of...

- Mm-hmm. - ...Of our involvement and what happened.

We have an individual page for each...

Damien, Jason and Jessie. They each have their own page.

Then there's different links,

like the college fund for Damien.

You know his... where it stands right now with him.

- That's a really good picture of Damien. - That's a good picture.

- Oh yeah, that looks good. - Kind of dapper.

Here's Jason's page. He has some poems that we got.

So we have an extra page just for his poetry.

I never dreamed he could write poetry the way he does.

Read his poem.

"An electric charge is in the air

the scent of burning ozone,

the deep bass of thunder rumbles,

we feel it in our stomach.

The wind picks up, the clouds choke up

to blot out the blue skies.

The rain pours down, drenching my soul.

You are there

and I no longer face the storm alone."

Mark, are you feeling better?

You got that arm straightened out

- and had that smoke? - The thing's remarkable.

- Congratulations. - Well, thank you, sir.

I don't, uh... according to what we have here,

your responses on the chart,

I feel you're telling the truth

about the issues we worked with

as far as you see them. As you see them.

Give me a high-five.

Thank you! I knew it was right.

I knew I was innocent.

And to all of you morons, fools and idiots

that thought I had anything to do with it,

I am now vindicated.

Maybe this'll serve a point to some of y'all.

And I feel sorry and my heart goes out to the victims

that have to be put through things such as this

to just already try to clear my name

when it's already been vindicated once...

now it's been vindicated twice by a professional

who I have the utmost respect for.

And I want each and every one of you devil-worshippers to know

that you are wrong and you need to go

on another ghost-hunt and leave me alone.

- Your call is being connected. - Thank you for using MCI.

- Hello? - Hello.

- How are you doing? - Am I on speakerphone?

- Yes. - Hey, Damien.

- Your mom's here. - Yes, say hi.

- Hi, son. - Hello.

- How are you doing? - Okay, I suppose.

- You okay? I miss you. Yeah, I'm okay.

- Are you okay? - Yeah.

- Okay. - Yeah.

I miss you. Miss you too.

I don't want to hear any of that either.

I know you lie every time you come here too,

whenever you say you're not gonna cry on the way home.

But then you get out in the parking lot...

And you cry. Not every time.

Why are you crying?

I just miss you.

I miss you too, but I'm not doing all that.

Calm down.

- I love you. - I love you, baby.

- Calm down. - I'm okay.

- Stop crying. - You have exceeded your time limit.

- I'm not crying. - This call is being terminated.

Your call is terminated.

Now that I live alone,

I have a lot of time on my hands for my own demise

or for my own well-being,

whichever I so choose.

I so choose for my welfare and my well-being

rather than my demise.

You might wonder what do I do with all my spare time.

Well, I still enjoy singing.

And I took several songs and put 'em together,

went to a studio here in the town I live in

and I recorded a song that meant a lot to me

and has been a great blessing of faith and hope,

that has helped me through every day.

And there's not a day go by that I don't listen to it

or sing it or at least try to remember part of it.

And if you'd like,

I'll sing a little of this song for you today.

This came after hours of work...

...and $45.

And you can have anything made.

♪ Amazing grace ♪

♪ shall always be ♪

♪ my song of praise ♪

♪ for it was grace ♪

♪ that bought my Liberty ♪

♪ I do not know ♪

♪ just why he came ♪

♪ to love me so ♪

♪ he looked beyond ♪

♪ my fault ♪

♪ and saw my needs ♪

♪ I shall forever lift ♪

♪ my eyes to Calvary ♪

♪ to view the cross ♪

♪ where Jesus died for me ♪

♪ I'm on the last terrain ♪

♪ that caught my falling soul ♪

♪ he looked beyond ♪

♪ my fault and saw my need ♪

♪ he looked beyond ♪

♪ my fault ♪

♪ and saw my need... ♪

Every new little piece of information

that surfaces with this case points away

from the three guys who are currently serving prison sentences.

And one of 'em's on death row.

If the three defendants ever got out,

uh, and were released

I would be sick.

I wasn't convinced from the evidence

that it was a bite Mark.

And so ruled.

The west Memphis police are never going to admit they botched this up.

They're not ever gonna admit that they got the wrong people.

I'll watch you, you bastard, Damien echols,

take your last breath, you lowlife son of a bitch.

If I were released today,

I would kind of want to just blend into obscurity.

I wouldn't want to be remembered.

You know, I wouldn't want to walk down the street and have someone say,

"hey, you're that kid that was on death row

that they made that documentary about."