All language subtitles for Inside.the.Cult.of.the.Jesus.Army.S01E01.1080p.iP.WEB-DL.AAC2.0.H.264-RAWR_track3_[eng]

af Afrikaans
ak Akan
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bem Bemba
bn Bengali
bh Bihari
bs Bosnian
br Breton
bg Bulgarian
km Cambodian
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
chr Cherokee
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional)
co Corsican
hr Croatian
cs Czech
da Danish
nl Dutch
en English
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
ee Ewe
fo Faroese
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French
fy Frisian
gaa Ga
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German
el Greek
gn Guarani
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ia Interlingua
ga Irish
it Italian Download
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
rw Kinyarwanda
rn Kirundi
kg Kongo
ko Korean
kri Krio (Sierra Leone)
ku Kurdish
ckb Kurdish (Soranî)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Laothian
la Latin
lv Latvian
ln Lingala
lt Lithuanian
loz Lozi
lg Luganda
ach Luo
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mfe Mauritian Creole
mo Moldavian
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
sr-ME Montenegrin
ne Nepali
pcm Nigerian Pidgin
nso Northern Sotho
no Norwegian
nn Norwegian (Nynorsk)
oc Occitan
or Oriya
om Oromo
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt-BR Portuguese (Brazil)
pt Portuguese (Portugal)
pa Punjabi
qu Quechua
ro Romanian
rm Romansh
nyn Runyakitara
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
sh Serbo-Croatian
st Sesotho
tn Setswana
crs Seychellois Creole
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhalese
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish
es-419 Spanish (Latin American)
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
tt Tatar
te Telugu
th Thai
ti Tigrinya
to Tonga
lua Tshiluba
tum Tumbuka
tr Turkish
tk Turkmen
tw Twi
ug Uighur
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
wo Wolof
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:06,000 This programme contains some strong language and scenes which some viewers may find upsetting. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,880 This programme deals with Suicide and Sexual Abuse 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,600 I'm here to support you. OK? 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,160 The purpose of this is to support you 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,120 in the process of facing up to what happened to you. 6 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,840 It's about you telling me your experience 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:26,960 and me bringing my knowledge 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,200 and understanding of cults and spiritual abuse. 9 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,960 So, we're not debunking personal faith. 10 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:39,680 That's not what this is about. 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:46,960 This is about debunking the cult from a psychological perspective 12 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:51,920 and how spirituality and faith actually were used to control. 13 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,080 All of us need to understand the process 14 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,760 of what we've been through in order not to repeat it. 15 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,160 I've seen it happen with others who've left cults. 16 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,160 They end up in a different cult. 17 00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:18,560 - How's that, Sarah? - Yeah. 18 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,240 How are you doing? 19 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,240 It's hard. 20 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,240 THEY CHANT 21 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:33,600 THEY CHANT 22 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,200 Jesus Christ is Lord! 23 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,080 You must bring yourself to a new commitment, 24 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,960 and you shall know what it is to be on fire for your Lord. 25 00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:49,440 Yes! 26 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,360 When the Jesus Army marches to war, 27 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,720 their message is high pressure and hardline - 28 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:01,680 join the Army or be damned. 29 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,040 WOMAN SPEAKS ITALIAN 30 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,760 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 31 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:16,960 A Jesus... 32 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,200 ..Explosion! 33 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:32,480 I want you. 34 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:35,800 I want you. 35 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,880 I want you to be mine. 36 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,120 Surrender the middle part of you. 37 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:59,040 The awful power of sin lurks there. 38 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:06,560 Now, we give our genitals to Jesus. 39 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:24,920 # Sound the trumpet of the gospel 40 00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:30,760 # Jesus Christ is Lord. # 41 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:32,480 Bugbrooke is an unpretentious 42 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,480 Northamptonshire village, 43 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,520 but the very English picture painted by its local church 44 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,320 and congregation has been challenged 45 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,320 by a local group of unorthodox Christians. 46 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,320 WAILING 47 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,320 They are talking in different tongues now. 48 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,600 That's the thing I never understood, 49 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:01,000 because you can't speak another language unless you're taught it. 50 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,280 Singing. Singing at the top of their voices. 51 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,560 That's not being neighbourly, is it? 52 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:08,800 It's clapping hands and stamping feet. 53 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,120 And in and out. In and out. 54 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,400 You'd never think it was a place of worship. 55 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:14,440 Well, you've only got to look at them 56 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,640 to see what type of people he's encouraging here. 57 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,080 They're not the village people, certainly. 58 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:27,360 Back in the early '70s, I had heard there was - 59 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:32,480 inverted commas - "something going on" at this place called Bugbrooke, 60 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,680 which was a little village near Northampton. 61 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:42,600 The pastor of the chapel there had established a church 62 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,680 that was very, very different. 63 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,160 WAILING 64 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:58,400 It was a completely new form of Christianity becoming visible, 65 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,760 particularly in America at the time... 66 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,920 ..all centred around a much more vibrant form of worship. 67 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,840 {\an8}There were people talking in tongues there... 68 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,600 {\an8}..and apparently they felt 69 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:28,040 that they could actually feel God inside of them. 70 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,800 And I wanted to find out if this was true or not. 71 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,280 When I first started, I mean, I just saw it as a... 72 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:48,120 As a radical church, you know? 73 00:05:50,280 --> 00:05:52,720 {\an8}It seemed like a good idea, I suppose. 74 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,280 {\an8}I mean, in those days, 75 00:05:58,280 --> 00:06:01,400 {\an8}it was still quite a stigma to be a single mum. 76 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,600 I'd gone to some other churches 77 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,520 and nobody'd sort of spoken to me at all. 78 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,760 But when I first went to the chapel, 79 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,600 I'd got there a little bit late 80 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,320 and they were already worshipping inside. 81 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,400 As I entered, 82 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:30,640 I don't know what it was, whether it was Jesus, but I just felt... 83 00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:34,960 ..that this was where I was supposed to be. 84 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:44,880 WOMAN SINGS 85 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,640 Come, my brothers and sisters in the Lord. 86 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,480 The fullness of Jesus rightly belongs to us. 87 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:06,280 # Thee has given me the wine to make my heart rejoice 88 00:07:06,280 --> 00:07:10,000 # And the oil to make my face to shine. # 89 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:16,440 I'd heard a lot about this person, Noel Stanton. 90 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:20,960 But everybody was... 91 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,480 ..in awe of him. 92 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,560 You're our brother and sister in Jesus. 93 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,600 You belong with us in the family of the Lord. 94 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,840 - Thank you. - And that old world, that old nature, 95 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:37,400 and all the world that was attaching to that old nature, now dies. 96 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:38,480 Amen. 97 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:50,760 Noel was conscripted into the Navy. 98 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,640 It was there that he became a Christian. 99 00:07:55,840 --> 00:08:03,320 After that, he started running his own stationery business in Bedford. 100 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:09,920 But he also, at the same time, became a lay pastor at Bugbrooke. 101 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:16,880 {\an8}Noel, actually, for a long time before the community started, 102 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,080 {\an8}he was like a conventional Christian. 103 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,640 But then, in the late '60s, 104 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,400 he was visited by God and he received the Holy Spirit. 105 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,160 It was very powerful. 106 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,520 It really profoundly affected him. 107 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,880 {\an8}It was Jesus, who said, your heavenly father 108 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,640 {\an8}will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him. 109 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,560 Will give? Oh, yes, I've proved it. 110 00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:49,400 I proved it four and a half years ago when I said, 111 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,360 Father, according to that word of Jesus, 112 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,760 I ask you now to give me the Holy Spirit. 113 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,000 And in an overwhelming fashion, he surely did. 114 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,640 When I encountered Noel for the first time, 115 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:09,240 he claimed that he was a prophet speaking God's will. 116 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:17,400 And he picked up his Bible and started slapping it - 117 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,480 "I'm fed up of this weak-kneed, 118 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:25,040 "namby-pamby Christianity that's around us. 119 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:30,280 "Don't be so measly and feeble." 120 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,640 And then he said, "Right, brethren, he said, 121 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,160 "shall we make the earth tremble?" 122 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:42,200 And everybody started to sing with full voice. 123 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:43,720 SINGING 124 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:57,640 It really did feel as if the very walls and ceiling were vibrating. 125 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:02,800 It felt thunderous... 126 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:09,080 ..and by the end of the chorus, 127 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,800 I had my hand up in the air along with everybody else. 128 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,480 But of course, I had no idea, really, 129 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:30,520 that there was something extremely manipulative about all of this, 130 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,240 because from now on, for all of us, 131 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,640 it wasn't just a case of going to church. 132 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:42,000 It was a case of belonging to church. 133 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,160 So, one thing I'm just going to say, 134 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:58,000 it's so important to really kind of use this C-word. 135 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,840 Call a cult, a cult. OK? 136 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:07,440 A cult exhibits great or excessive devotion to some person, 137 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,440 idea or thing. 138 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,320 Noel was, like, revered, weren't he? 139 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,920 - Yeah, yeah. - So he's the person, Noel Stanton. 140 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,520 - Yeah... - So it's... - And we were devoted to him. 141 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:34,920 - You were. - In his message. - Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 142 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,400 - That was a big focus, wasn't it? That whole kind of... - Discipleship. 143 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,880 Mmm. Discipleship, yeah. 144 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,040 I even had a photo of Noel under my bed for ages. 145 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,440 So, here we start ticking boxes. 146 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,880 Dangerous leaders make important decisions 147 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,760 about converts' lives - money, dress, personal possessions. 148 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,760 They cut themselves off, either geographically or socially. 149 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,520 They perceive there's only one way forward. 150 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,560 All of that is weird. It's really weird. 151 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:08,600 - That was Noel. - Yeah. 152 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,560 He was exactly that, basically. 153 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:14,560 Yeah. 154 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,320 Yeah, it's fucking weird. 155 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,520 The Lord has told us to move into our community, 156 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,480 to divide our possessions. 157 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,240 Living in separate houses? 158 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,240 Yes, but belonging to one another as a true family. 159 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,760 Loving one another, caring for one another, 160 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,880 sharing with one another - that's the way. 161 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,240 It's blessed. 162 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:43,760 It's powerful. 163 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,680 It's working. 164 00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:47,320 It's beautiful. 165 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:56,920 In an attempt to return to the lifestyle 166 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:58,960 practised by the early church, 167 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,760 a small nucleus of people have given their homes 168 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,800 and all personal wealth to the new community. 169 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:15,560 The money given in by all the members 170 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:17,320 has been used to buy properties 171 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,680 where community members live together. 172 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:23,760 {\an8}Do you actually miss the privacy 173 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:25,760 {\an8}that having your own home would give you? 174 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:27,520 Oh, no, not really. 175 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,760 We find that we have any privacy that we need. 176 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,640 {\an8}When I moved in to New Creation Farm, 177 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:39,000 {\an8}there was this real hum of excitement. 178 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:44,160 And almost immediately, everything seemed... 179 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:47,160 ..different. 180 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,520 My mum, she was trying to live in a way 181 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:03,000 {\an8}that she thought was the way God wanted us to live our lives. 182 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,840 And in a way, I get it. 183 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,800 To begin with, Mags, she was full of beans. 184 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,160 Little bundle of joy, she was. 185 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:25,200 {\an8}This pretty farmhouse is home for about 20 community members. 186 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,400 {\an8}Parents, children, single people all live under the same roof. 187 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,040 There was loads about Sheepfold I loved. 188 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,240 As kids, it was an amazing place. 189 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,280 There was just fields that we could all go and run and play in, 190 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,080 and we used to go and pick gooseberries together. 191 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,680 So it wasn't only bad stuff. There was really cool stuff as well. 192 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,440 When you went into the community, 193 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,800 you're giving up your earthly aspirations, really. 194 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:07,360 You know, we would be living as the early Christians did. 195 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,520 So you shared things and had everything in common. 196 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,080 You just distributed them as people had need. 197 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,960 Sounds totally innocent, doesn't it? 198 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,360 To begin with, everything seemed wonderful. 199 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,640 I just felt such a peace, 200 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:33,560 and obviously it attracted quite a lot of young people. 201 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,000 They all greeted me as "bro". 202 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,720 "Hi, bro. It's lovely to have you here." 203 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,080 I feel the same place as you, bro. 204 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,200 - I really do love you. - Bless you. I love you. 205 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,480 It's like, if you know you're going to live with someone for eternity... 206 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,960 - Yeah. - ..if you know that... - ..forever... 207 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,600 ..they're going to be loving you for eternity, 208 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,120 then you might as well just... 209 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,560 ..just start, just start realising that now. 210 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:06,920 To describe it as an idyllic, dreamy kind of atmosphere 211 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,520 is absolutely spot-on. 212 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,280 It's almost like going on a trip. 213 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,680 The whole vision and the whole idea was one 214 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,240 that was very separate from the world. 215 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,400 It was genuinely 100% like a fairy tale. 216 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,080 It was just beautiful. 217 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:39,360 Mags and me and Mum moved in when I was about eight. 218 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,680 I was so excited. 219 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:47,160 Sheepfold was like this huge house. 220 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,360 Honestly, I just thought this was like being a princess in a castle. 221 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,000 There were lots of other families moving in as well, 222 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,280 so we got kids to play with all the time. 223 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:01,880 But the first thing that I remember really well, 224 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,560 we'd moved all our stuff, and I was like, 225 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,960 "Oh, Mum, where are all my toys?" 226 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:11,520 Cos I'd got this... You know, I was quite obsessed with my dolls 227 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:16,320 and my rather nice little doll's house that I had. 228 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:23,080 And... And Mum said, "Well, I've given all your toys away because 229 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,240 "we don't have toys in the community." 230 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:27,840 They're just gone. 231 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,280 They hadn't... You know, there was no warning, no nothing. 232 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:31,600 They're just gone. 233 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,440 I mean, for me, it wasn't anything weird 234 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,880 cos it was all I ever knew. 235 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,480 But there was loads of it that was really not... 236 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:44,600 Whatever normal is, it's, like, far from normal. 237 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,640 {\an8}We moved in just before my eighth birthday. 238 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,160 {\an8}My parents wanted to be around other Christians 239 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:08,120 {\an8}where we can all grow up together in a morally conscious environment, 240 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:13,120 committing everything that we had, as a family, to the church. 241 00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:18,200 And you don't understand that as a child. 242 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:25,400 We moved into the house next door, by a couple of fields, 243 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:26,800 to where Noel lived. 244 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:34,360 So we were very tightly overseen by Noel. 245 00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:37,440 You could feel his influence, actually. 246 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,120 He didn't need to be there. 247 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,960 He used to preach a lot about spiritual family. 248 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,160 That was what was important, not the natural family - 249 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,040 because the natural family, 250 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,920 I suppose, were your link to your old self. 251 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:54,800 And that was a big no-no. 252 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,720 So you didn't have family time, really. 253 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,400 You didn't just have time with your mum. 254 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,600 It's a very extreme environment to grow up in. 255 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,320 It was dangerous, actually, when you think about it. 256 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:29,280 You know, as a child, it's stripping a person away 257 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,440 from everything you need as support. 258 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,600 - That's so true. Like... - Yeah? 259 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,040 Yeah, my mum wasn't around, 260 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,440 so it was cutting you off from family and not... 261 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,280 And the family being the church 262 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,920 rather than being me, my mum and my sister. 263 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:50,800 Cor, it's hot. 264 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,840 I never used to like tea when I was little. 265 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,880 But Jesus makes you less fussy, doesn't he? 266 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,440 He does, I know. 267 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,400 The leadership of the community is all male. 268 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,920 An Elder lives in each community home 269 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,760 and all problems and decisions are shared with him. 270 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:10,320 Elders are to be found in all our houses and our households. 271 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,280 They are to be shepherds of the flock of Christ. 272 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,600 They are the ministers of the flock of Christ. 273 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,680 {\an8}But in any situation, living together in a house, 274 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,400 {\an8}you have got to have people who sort out things. 275 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,800 I was initially made what's called a leading serving brother, LSB, 276 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,520 which always amused me because of my electronics background. 277 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,840 In electronics, LSB stands for Least Significant Bit. 278 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,240 So, all right, there's something of a need 279 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,720 for humility in being called an LSB. Sort of... 280 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,280 It clicked with me. 281 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,040 It's easy to see only the rules. 282 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,360 But in the early days, Noel had very much a vision 283 00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:11,320 for being God's people. 284 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,240 If Noel had a particular topic 285 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,680 that he was speaking about that week, 286 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,000 everybody, every brother would be on that thing - 287 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,920 "No sugar. No-one's to have sugar. Sugar's the devil," 288 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,240 and not being able to refrain from doing something's the devil. 289 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,520 And you have to be able to control yourself. 290 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,520 So, no sugar, anybody. 291 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,800 One of the things we realised was we didn't want to have large amounts 292 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,640 of bits and pieces and we didn't want to get distracted 293 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:46,960 by things like television. 294 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,760 So we didn't have televisions and we didn't have radios. 295 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,040 A packed lunch is worldly. 296 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,480 Wearing fashionable clothes is worldly. 297 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,720 A bag of crisps - how worldly. 298 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:03,640 And worldly stuff wasn't to be included or invited in, 299 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,560 because that was inviting the devil in, 300 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,400 literally inviting the devil in. 301 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:20,320 The battle is between Satan and God, Satan and Jesus. 302 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:23,720 What do you mean? 303 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,880 I mean, Satan is working in everybody who's not...not... 304 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,720 Is working in the world. 305 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:32,840 And...and...and... I mean, you can tell. 306 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,640 Just look at the state of the place. 307 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,280 Every single night, you're sat in a room like this. 308 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,440 Somebody would be playing guitar, 309 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,840 somebody else would be speaking in tongues, 310 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:53,320 and there would be people who looked possessed. 311 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,200 And I remember these brothers 312 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,280 all coming in and, like, laying hands on them. 313 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,280 Everybody speaking in tongues really loud 314 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,800 and Noel yelling, "The devil!" 315 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,440 Exorcisms were quite frequent. 316 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,680 Noel was one of these people who would quite easily 317 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,640 sort of point out a demon in somebody. 318 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,400 People would throw up. 319 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,480 Some people would convulse on the floor. 320 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,520 You don't know what it is 321 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,360 and you're trying to rationalise it as a child. 322 00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:45,440 One day, I was drawing stick people with willies and boobs. 323 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,080 I have no idea why. 324 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,800 It's just something you do as a child sometimes. 325 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,880 And it was deemed that I had an unclean spirit. 326 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:55,920 And... 327 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,080 - How old were you? - Seven. 328 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,680 I can remember it clearly. 329 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:13,000 The elder of our household, he used to put his hand... 330 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,320 My head used to fit perfectly into his hand, 331 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,440 and he just used to sort of push down on it so I couldn't move. 332 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,840 It was really frightening. 333 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,440 I don't actually want to talk about that too much. 334 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,200 What is an introject? 335 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,080 An introject is a belief or behaviour 336 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,880 which you've taken into yourself 337 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,800 that remains sitting in your psychological system 338 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:58,520 like a lump of unchewed and undigested food in your gut. 339 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,200 My thing that stuck with me is I'm possessed - 340 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,720 you know, that I've got a demonic spirit in me. 341 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,400 I'm the devil that's taking everybody's eye off 342 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,080 what they should be concentrating on. 343 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:16,360 And, you know, that needs to be taken out of me. 344 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:22,360 How dare they tell a little girl that she's possessed? 345 00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:24,240 How dare they tell any of you? 346 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:30,120 That introject is still stuck in your stomach undigested, 347 00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:31,800 poisoning you. 348 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:32,960 And I think we need to go, 349 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,960 "I haven't got a demon. They were controlling me. 350 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,480 "They were abusing me by telling me these things." 351 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:54,240 For many people, the control and living in conformity 352 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,480 with the rules was incredibly difficult. 353 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:05,200 I shared a room at the farm with a guy called Steve, 354 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:10,680 {\an8}who would stay up till the early hours of the morning reading. 355 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,400 Reading was considered to be a bit of a heady, 356 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,160 individualistic pursuit, 357 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:23,000 and I heard him arguing with Noel on a couple of occasions. 358 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,960 I heard raised voices, 359 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,320 and I came out of my room to see what was going on, 360 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,240 and Noel was stood by his bedroom door, 361 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,360 calling for Steve to come back, 362 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:40,080 but Steve just put his hand up dismissively in the air 363 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:41,640 and marched off. 364 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:50,200 But it's indicative in this case of somebody who was unhappy. 365 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,520 I know that because he told me about it. 366 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,240 And it proved to be Steve's last night with us, actually. 367 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,200 {\an8}Somebody rang and told me that 368 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,840 {\an8}his body had been found on the railway track 369 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,440 {\an8}and that he was knocked over by a train. 370 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,040 So, I immediately asked if... 371 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,360 I said, "Oh, has he committed suicide?" 372 00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:31,040 And... And I was told I shouldn't be thinking such thoughts, 373 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,960 because of course he hadn't committed suicide. 374 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,840 It had just been a terrible accident. 375 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,840 This was the public statement, if you like, from the community. 376 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,800 Although the coroner now says that there is no evidence 377 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,920 to support criticism of the sect, 378 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:56,880 his concern was based on the fact that, 379 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,360 in addition to Stephen's gruesome death, 380 00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:02,240 there was an unusual coincidence of another death 381 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,960 in unusual circumstances 18 months ago. 382 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,960 In this case, another member of the sect was found lying naked 383 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,560 in the garden in December, and he died from exposure. 384 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,040 Well, it was gut-wrenching. 385 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,600 The initial thought was, he's gone somewhere praying 386 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,720 and nothing to worry about. 387 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,800 I don't think anybody knows what happened or why it happened. 388 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,240 The circumstances of both deaths are just a mystery... 389 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,080 ..which raises questions, really. 390 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,720 The New Creation Christian community 391 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,400 has aroused its fair share of criticism. 392 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,160 There's a natural suspicion of any such 393 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,800 highly committed and insular group of people 394 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,760 who claim to have found the true way to God. 395 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,400 Such ecstasy must surely have a flaw. 396 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,920 Very, very gradually, through the years, 397 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:06,480 he has increased his evangelism until it became aggressive. 398 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,440 And that's when I skipped out. 399 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,160 I know what goes on. 400 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,920 Community members have bought an old hotel 401 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,120 and some of the county's more elegant homes. 402 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:36,320 The community uses the skills of its members in several businesses. 403 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,720 A company called Scano does all the building work 404 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,400 on community properties. 405 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,400 There's a chain of health food shops called The House of Goodness Ltd. 406 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,880 We were growing really fast at that point. 407 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:55,880 Various articles were made about us because we were something unusual. 408 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,080 But of course, the fear of the unknown, I think, 409 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:00,720 is very, very real. 410 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:03,640 I see a cult. 411 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,760 I know they're saying all the time 412 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,360 that they're not a cult, but I do see a cult, 413 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,960 an enclosed cult which exists for itself. 414 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,400 I mean, there are people who want to dub us a cult, 415 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,560 but we are very orthodox. 416 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,040 We're a church. We're a genuine Christian church. 417 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,360 As the Evangelical Alliance have said, 418 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,720 we are a genuine Christian church. 419 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:33,360 Yes, Noel was a very dominating character. 420 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,480 However, I'm against Jesus Fellowship being called a cult. 421 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,040 After all, it sprang out of the Baptist church, 422 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,480 and the Baptist church...nationally has got a structure. 423 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,240 We are people of historic Christianity. 424 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,920 We recognise, and churches in general recognise, 425 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:57,080 that we belong to the Church of Christ throughout the world. 426 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,800 And... And therefore, of course, we completely deny any suggestion 427 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,160 that we are a cult in the way the word is now accepted. 428 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,320 Our good does get evil spoken of. 429 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,360 There are false allegations and the like, 430 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,840 but we believe our testimony will win through. 431 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,480 Oh, God, I have so many, many sins. 432 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,680 But listen, if we confess our sin... 433 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,320 God, here are my many, many, many sins. 434 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,440 But, God, I don't want the things of the world any more. 435 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:44,000 You must bring yourself to a new commitment to Jesus. 436 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,400 You must be 100% his. 437 00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:01,800 At that point, the thing that developed very interestingly 438 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,560 was that... 439 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:13,400 ..celibacy became more and more something which Noel encouraged. 440 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,160 He said that in the world in general, 441 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,360 there was far too much intimacy. 442 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,480 Surrender the middle part of you. 443 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:35,600 Many of us here will have to accept 444 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:42,520 that an awful power of sin lurked there. 445 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,520 But now... 446 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,920 ..we give our genitals to Jesus. 447 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,200 When I became celibate... 448 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,600 {\an8}..I was one of the earlier people to commit to that. 449 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,840 {\an8}And it was just presented as an option. 450 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,800 And then it grew into something else. 451 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,240 It did become the foundation for Noel, in a way. 452 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,840 And so it was a kind of a tick box 453 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,120 for brothers to get elevated up the ranks. 454 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,160 In my case, I was 24. 455 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:31,120 I had this experience...with a girl I was going out with, 456 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,400 before I joined the church. 457 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,920 It wasn't a great relationship, really. 458 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:45,040 So, you know, I wasn't an experienced exponent of, you know... 459 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,200 I was probably in my early 20s. 460 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,560 In fact, I'm a peculiarity, 461 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,880 having basically joined the community 462 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,800 when I was 18 and being so introverted before I was 18, 463 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,960 I've never had a girlfriend. 464 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,120 So here I am, 65 years old, and I've never had a girlfriend. 465 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:11,160 Right. 466 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,160 You know, which in many ways must make me a bit unique, 467 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:21,920 but that is me. And I am what God has made me in that sense. 468 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,840 And of course, Noel himself was a single celibate. 469 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,800 Celibacy was for life. 470 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,920 But it wasn't just a case of holiness. 471 00:34:41,240 --> 00:34:43,480 It went beyond that. 472 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,640 It was far more... 473 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,680 ..to do with the control of people. 474 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,480 And in fact, from now on, 475 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,400 relationships between brothers and sisters would be something 476 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,560 that was entirely monitored and regulated. 477 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,440 It got to the point where within the household, 478 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:23,960 men would sleep down one end of the house, 479 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:25,960 women would sleep at the other end, 480 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:30,640 and generally, men and women didn't fraternise. 481 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,080 It's almost like there was a complete vacuum there 482 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,560 with regards to anything of a sexual nature. 483 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,320 And I think that was a projection from Noel, actually. 484 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,720 In a sexual sense, 485 00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:53,720 he was an incredibly mixed up, insecure person. 486 00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:58,680 I myself encountered Noel 487 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:03,680 either in his underclothes or just wearing a bath towel... 488 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:11,720 ..and having younger brothers sat next to him on the bed, 489 00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:13,720 which I thought was... 490 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,000 It unsettled me. 491 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,960 Looking back, I can say... 492 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,960 ..he was struggling, I think, with his sexuality. 493 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:36,800 And perhaps, you know, he was fighting against those tendencies. 494 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,680 How that came out at the time, it was obvious. 495 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:45,360 Anger. 496 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:03,480 I remember he used to work himself up into these massive rants 497 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,680 where he used to, like, rage at everybody. 498 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:12,280 More and more, Noel absolutely hit the roof. 499 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,720 He used to get so irate, 500 00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:22,160 and for some reason, it was often at young people. 501 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,240 I just remember every single night... 502 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:34,880 ..Noel ranting, sweating, ranting and telling you about hell's fire, 503 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:40,200 and "If you allow the children to be swept away..." 504 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,400 Sometimes he'd shout so hard that the veins on his neck 505 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:47,120 would just stand out. It was horrific. 506 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,360 You know, he just hated us. 507 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,200 And as time went past... 508 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,960 ..the way in which children in the community were treated 509 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:07,640 became more and more extreme. 510 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:19,880 In all of the households, birch sticks were kept hidden. 511 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,440 But we all knew where they were. 512 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,320 It was preached that you spare the rod and spoil the child. 513 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,040 I do remember a lot of roddings - 514 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,280 maybe not as many as Mags. 515 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,120 You know, my sister, she was rodded from the age of two. 516 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,520 How often were you disciplined? Do you remember? 517 00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:52,960 I reckon every day. 518 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:56,640 Or almost every day. 519 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,840 All of the children were rodded. 520 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,680 You would get disciplined because somebody, 521 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,040 a brother, there, has decided 522 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,720 that something you've just done was defiant. 523 00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:14,880 That's what I remember hearing a lot, that I was being defiant. 524 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,240 One particular occasion, we're in the bedroom, 525 00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:27,320 and Mum was... Mum was disciplining Mags. 526 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,960 She was about two and she was whacking her with a stick. 527 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,000 And Magsie was just screaming and screaming and screaming, 528 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,320 and I just... So I, like, buried myself under the covers, 529 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,280 like, covered my ears and, like, ruffled my feet to make noise 530 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,680 with the bedsheets to try and block out 531 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,520 the sound of this screaming baby. 532 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,440 I mean, it wasn't... 533 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,880 I don't know, it's difficult, really. 534 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,360 I mean, when you've got everybody together, 535 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,720 you know, and everyone's looking, you know, you... 536 00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:10,040 It's... It's difficult. 537 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,560 Because I was a single mum and had no husband... 538 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,840 ..everybody - all the brothers - thought it was their place 539 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,040 to point out to me what they thought my child 540 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:25,720 should or shouldn't be doing. 541 00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:30,080 I mean, the Elders would take decisions for my children, you know. 542 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,040 And I found that really difficult. 543 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,360 How do you feel, sort of overall, 544 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,240 it's affected your relationship with your mum? 545 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:43,920 Erm... 546 00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:52,160 I haven't really ever spoken to her about how it made me feel. 547 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,360 It's like the elephant in the room that you never talk about. 548 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,360 You just sort of politely skirt around, 549 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:06,360 but you kind of feel like you wanted to be more protected. 550 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,640 I'd never been in any doubt that my mum really loves me. 551 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,360 And she's a good person. 552 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,880 And she... Of course, she was doing it because she thought it was 553 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,200 the right thing to do. 554 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,320 But the bit that gives me rage 555 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,760 is the bit that's, like, "That was your choice." 556 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,560 I didn't choose any of this shit. 557 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,080 Children were anybody's. 558 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,240 Sorry. They were anybody's. 559 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:38,640 We were open to whoever, and that... 560 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,400 As horrible as a pill that is for our parents to swallow, 561 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:43,600 that's the facts. 562 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:46,720 It's tricky... 563 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,600 ..but the key to successful brainwashing 564 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,000 is to keep the subject unaware 565 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,520 that they're being manipulated and controlled. 566 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,520 I've used the analogy of the frog in boiling water. 567 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,600 You know, a frog, if you heat it up... It's horrible, 568 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,520 but if you heat it up slowly, 569 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,200 it doesn't know it's being heated up and boiled alive. 570 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,440 And I think there is an element of that happening. 571 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,080 So, to your parents, the punishment is justified 572 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:23,240 as being necessary to cleanse this so-called sin. 573 00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:26,920 The doctrine is more important than the individual's wellbeing. 574 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:34,840 What Noel Stanton seems to have created 575 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:36,920 is a state within a state, 576 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,640 an apparently benevolent totalitarian system, 577 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,160 where the interests of the individual are subjugated 578 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:43,880 to the interests of the majority. 579 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,360 All their businesses have grown out of their community needs. 580 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,160 There's a builders merchants and a plumbing 581 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,560 and decorating business which service their houses. 582 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,320 There's a firm of solicitors and a doctors' surgery of five GPs. 583 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,680 In their heyday, those businesses were regularly turning in profits. 584 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,200 And so that was giving us a very, very good financial base 585 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:25,960 on which to work. 586 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:32,240 I pray for sales and I get my prayers answered, 587 00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:34,360 and so do the rest of the staff. 588 00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:39,000 I believe God loves us and I believe he wants to help us. 589 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,160 In the '80s, there was a big expansion. 590 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,160 And I think the power, if you have power... 591 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:04,920 There's that saying, isn't there? 592 00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,120 You know, all power corrupts. I think it does. 593 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,440 I am a Christian with power. 594 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:17,760 And I think as time went by, there were more and more controls. 595 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,720 With Noel, it was the natural progression of his personality, 596 00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:29,960 which was sort of like controlling bullying, maybe. 597 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,840 And so, in that name that's above every other name, 598 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,120 the name of Jesus Christ who is Lord, 599 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:37,960 now we baptise you. 600 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,600 Jesus is Lord! 601 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,160 CROWD WHISTLES 602 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,600 Tonight, we talk to members of Britain's foremost religious sect. 603 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,120 Are they here to give salvation 604 00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,960 or has their operation an altogether more sinister feel? 605 00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:03,200 {\an8}John Everett, you were involved for five years, 606 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,680 {\an8}and then you left and suffered a nervous breakdown, didn't you? 607 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:13,320 I left the community because I had grown to believe 608 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,240 that they were exhibiting characteristics 609 00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:19,480 which I began to associate with cultishness. 610 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,960 Let your voices be raised in praise to the Lord! 611 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:34,640 There were several key factors involved with my decision to leave. 612 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:42,160 There was the whole business of having one man at the helm 613 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,600 with so much authority. 614 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:53,040 Of course, the way in which children in the community were treated. 615 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:58,120 And as time passed, I became really angry. 616 00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,360 And at that point, I thought... 617 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:08,600 .."I need... For the sake of people who might be drawn in, 618 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:14,280 "I need to make known what I know about the community." 619 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,920 So, in the first instance, I wrote quite a long manuscript. 620 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,640 It was actually picked up by the Baptist Union 621 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:30,320 and the Evangelical Alliance, 622 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,320 and I had meetings with them. 623 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,520 I think there's a real issue 624 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,480 about the way the church was being administered. 625 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,280 {\an8}There was an unhealthy emphasis on celibacy. 626 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,600 There was a concern that children may be being put 627 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,680 in a more pressured situation than was helpful 628 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,400 and that an excessive discipline might be being used. 629 00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:08,840 When people spoke to the press... 630 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,440 Yeah, I mean, it was, um... It was... 631 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,000 That was relatively full-on. 632 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,600 Let him die. Crucify him! 633 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,800 The Judas word would get mentioned quite a bit. 634 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:35,800 And so I was the first formal excommunicant of the community. 635 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:40,000 Nobody was allowed to talk to me or have anything to do with me, 636 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,080 because I'd become the enemy. 637 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,320 Erm... All right, yes. To be able to say 638 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,400 "We're part of the Evangelical Alliance" was helpful. 639 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,800 We did want to maintain what connections we could 640 00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,920 with other Christian organisations. 641 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,680 But, you know, internally, 642 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,560 I think our desire was far more to be acknowledged by God 643 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,200 than to be acknowledged by human organisations. 644 00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,800 Do not trust in the weakness of man. 645 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,480 We're in a fight, persecuted. 646 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:27,840 Will you take Jesus into the kind of church that he desires? 647 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:30,840 Will you? Dare you? 648 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,880 And so the Jesus Army was formed. 649 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:37,560 Blow the trumpet. 650 00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,600 Move on. Advance! 651 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:44,640 Join the fight. 652 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,000 When the Jesus Army marches to war, 653 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,120 their battle is for hearts and minds 654 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,920 and their message is high pressure and hardline - 655 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:55,840 join the Army or be damned. 656 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,400 We're looking for a new Britain, a new Britain morally. 657 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,000 You see, we live in a nation where there's all sorts 658 00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,200 of sexual permissive problems and the like, 659 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,760 every kind of moral problem. 660 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,760 When Jesus Army came in... 661 00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,080 ..there was this element of kind of... 662 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:25,720 How do you say this in a nice way? "Up yours to the establishment." 663 00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:28,520 Just let the spirit fall upon you. 664 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:34,840 In the name of Jesus... 665 00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,080 ..of self-destruction and suicide... 666 00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,320 ..we find you in the powerful blood of the lamb. 667 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,520 # Glory 668 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,120 # Glory in the highest... # 669 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,200 Let's be revolutionaries. 670 00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,320 We've got to promote the Christian gospel 671 00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,640 in a fairly militant form today. 672 00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,840 After all, evil is on the march. 673 00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:02,440 Today, the debate surrounding one of the most active 674 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,680 new religious groups, the Jesus Army... 675 00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:06,760 To some, they're a dangerous cult. 676 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,320 To others, they're a radical movement which changes lives. 677 00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:17,160 This Jesus Army is something that... Well, frankly, it disgusts me. 678 00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,840 These Rambo jackets, 679 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,200 the uniform they have chosen is the uniform of force. 680 00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:29,760 The Jesus Army was, in one sense, deliberately promoted 681 00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,840 as being up front, in your face. 682 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:35,720 But one of the aspects, I think, 683 00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:39,120 of the Jesus Army manifesto was to go where others don't go... 684 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,800 ..reaching those right on the outskirts of society, 685 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:48,680 whether it be drug addicts...or those homeless. 686 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:53,760 You know, reaching out into various of...the gay situations 687 00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,200 and things like that at times as well. 688 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,920 Father, I just pray that you will work powerfully 689 00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:15,560 to show them that there...is sin within them, Lord God. 690 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,160 Cause them to come to this bus, Lord Jesus, 691 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,440 cause them to find out what's going on inside them right now, Lord. 692 00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,000 Cause them to find out why they're so uncomfortable, Lord Jesus. 693 00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,160 I was probably about 13 or 14 694 00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,880 the first time I was told to go evangelising. 695 00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,440 I felt a lot of pressure, actually. 696 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:46,000 It was drummed into us that this was the only way to gain redemption, 697 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,240 to go to heaven. 698 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,280 And sometimes it could be quite scary 699 00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:55,120 because you'd get people who were off their heads. 700 00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,040 - It really was the lion's den... - SHE LAUGHS 701 00:51:58,040 --> 00:51:59,680 ..particularly for children. 702 00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:03,480 Can't even walk straight. 703 00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:08,960 Is it safe? 704 00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,120 Lord Jesus. Jesus... 705 00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,280 It's great to be able to have the resources, 706 00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,880 to be able to... Doing something that actually changed people, 707 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,520 that actually helped people directly. 708 00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,640 You've only got one life to live. Go for it. 709 00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,920 - Come on. - We'll look after you. 710 00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,640 Just get on with it. 711 00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:35,520 I don't think there was any kind of randomness in it. 712 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:39,520 I think with Noel, everything was a tool 713 00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:43,600 that was...used for a purpose. 714 00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:01,160 It's been a good night's work. 715 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,240 Three people are travelling back to the farm for the weekend. 716 00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:16,120 Steve from London, picked him up last night from Leicester Square. 717 00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,520 We don't know much about his background, only that he's homeless. 718 00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,760 We've missed you, Steve. Good to see you. Are you glad to be here? 719 00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:23,320 Yeah, sure am. 720 00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:25,320 We haven't got too many rules here. 721 00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,720 LAUGHTER 722 00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,720 No! 723 00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,560 Probably one or two, but not many. 724 00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:39,120 We just want to be like Jesus and move in peace and love. 725 00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:40,240 We believe... 726 00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:44,680 We believe in Jesus Christ as our Saviour. 727 00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,560 I think, by then, Noel had realised that we needed 728 00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:53,160 to kind of make ourselves some sort of charity or organisation 729 00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,720 to help support people. 730 00:53:55,720 --> 00:53:59,720 So then, people say, "Well, look at all the good that he did." 731 00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,720 You can't... You can't weigh it up like that. 732 00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:07,560 A lot of good does not outweigh a whole load of bad. 733 00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,920 Your strength and your grace and your healing power... 734 00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:52,440 THEY SPEAK IN TONGUES 735 00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:01,840 My best friend - she had a really hard time 736 00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,800 at this new community house, Battlecentre. 737 00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,440 She was very unhappy. 738 00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:13,440 I remember her saying how depressed she was, 739 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,960 how she hated her life, how difficult it was. 740 00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,480 I used to go and visit sometimes. 741 00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:27,240 This Elder - he didn't seem to mind that I was there. 742 00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:33,280 He would use me as a lookout, so that I could warn him 743 00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,000 if anybody in the community house 744 00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,640 was coming into the room or passing by. 745 00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,720 He took her down into the cellar 746 00:55:43,720 --> 00:55:47,520 and he would touch her, try and hug her, and... 747 00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:49,680 I mean, I didn't actually try and watch 748 00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:51,400 because I was supposed to be the lookout, 749 00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,200 but you can't help yourself but watch. 750 00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:59,120 We were 12 and 13 at the time. 751 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:08,040 One day, my dad approached me and told me that... 752 00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:12,520 ..my best friend had tried to commit suicide. 753 00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:17,960 I felt ashamed. 754 00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:21,080 I felt ashamed of what he'd done to her. 755 00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:23,840 I felt ashamed that I hadn't told anybody already. 756 00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:28,760 So the next day, my dad arranged for me 757 00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,760 to tell the Elder of our household. 758 00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,240 They would report back to Noel. 759 00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:42,720 Noel was just adamant I was a traitor 760 00:56:42,720 --> 00:56:46,160 and I was in collaboration with my best friend. 761 00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,040 And our voices... 762 00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:55,720 ..what have they said? 763 00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,040 What damage have they done? 764 00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:04,280 What lies have they told? 765 00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,840 What gossip has come from them? 766 00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:25,520 The brothers, they still didn't believe me. 767 00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:27,760 Men come and stand right at the front of the stage 768 00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,160 and just stand there and pray against me and curse me. 769 00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:35,760 I was an abomination, basically. 770 00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:43,040 We're Jesus Revolutionaries. 771 00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:45,000 Now, part of this Jesus revolution 772 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,280 is showing everyone that the Christian faith, 773 00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:52,600 the living Christian faith, is a faith of real joy. 774 00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:58,280 You simply have to surrender and receive. 775 00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:02,920 Well, of course, she was not the only one. 776 00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:06,920 What happened next was horrifying. 777 00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:12,440 I later found out, actually, most of my peers had been abused. 778 00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,600 These people, they thought they were above the law. 63296

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.