Original subtitles

All right. You guys ready to get on stage?

All right. Here we go guys. We're ready to start.

Three, two, one. Let's go.

Grammy award winning Casting Crowns.

Hearing these songs and their lives are being impacted.

I've been a youth pastor about 20 years at the church I'm in now in Atlanta.

They are, arguably, the most successful artists in the last 25 years.

They're pursuing Christ, and all the success they've had

comes secondary to their relationship with the Lord.

Tonight they've won collectively seven awards.

Casting Crowns!

They've sold over 13 million albums.

Would you please make welcome, Casting Crowns.

We start getting stories and emails from all over the world.

How did we get here?

You always came back home. And you're just still you.

Mark and I worked several jobs together in high school and college.

We worked at a stationary shop together.

We worked at a basket store in the mall, kind of place.

And... he was actually the Easter Bunny.

And I took pictures at the mall while he was Easter Bunny.

We also kept the nursery together

during choir practice on Wednesday nights.

Sometimes we ran the sound system for a choir practice for them.

And so, we were just really good friends

and grew up just doing church together.

I was driving to Bible college and back.

And I took that drive for about six years at that four-year college,

and, it was a tough, tough go.

And I remember, every day it was 45 minutes there, 45 minutes back.

And as I would leave school every day, I would quit school pretty much,

and be done with it.

And I'm never going back to that place.

And on the 45-minute drive home,

God had enough time to get into my thoughts

and let me hand it back to him and say,

"Lord, I'm sorry. I'll go back."

Because I am dyslexic and ADD.

So, school was never good or fun for me.

I was in all the classes you have to go to when you couldn't keep up.

He was in school about a year, and a guy approached him to work with teenagers.

And he... I will never forget,

he said, "I... I don't like teenagers."

And I said, "Well, you know, have you prayed about it?"

And he said, "Well, no, because I don't like teenagers."

He said, "But I guess I will."

And the next day he came to me and he said,

"Well, I think maybe we should at least go talk to the pastor."

I have given you my cell number, email,

everything I can get to you guys to talk to me when you need me,

and, I have talked to so many of you guys.

And one of the things that's always on our minds is friends

and just stuff we're trying to work through.

Hey, gang, cool dads in the house. Squad goals.

Would you say this place is lit? I say it is.

We have to put on our own...

kind of costumes...

So, when I started teaching, I'm still figuring out my friendship with Jesus.

I am not killin' it at life. I'm bumping my head every day.

He started hearing songs, and I think that's when the song-writing part started.

I wrote songs for a long time before anybody ever heard them.

I was scared to death to show anybody.

But my youth group was where I would sing the songs.

And that's how I started writing.

This is what they call a cassette tape,

and this is my band, One Voice.

And. man, we played...

We probably played a hundred shows a year

just at churches in our area in North Florida.

And we would head to church, and we'd set up after work on the weekends and play.

So, this is where it first started happening for me.

Ooh. I was trying to be Kirk from 4Him right there.

It didn't go well.

Mark? Mark? MARK: What? We're merging.

We're merging.

Melanie's getting a little nervous.

We're filming and driving at the same time. - Right.

Okay. Here we are. It's bunch of woods out here.

Mark! Mark! Mark!

We did it all of college.

And he started leading the worship on Wednesdays

um, in the youth group, which was my old youth group.

Shortly after that, I started helping him on Wednesday nights.

We had a couple of kids in the youth group playing.

So, we ended up with a band, like, in no time.

I don't know what happened. So, the rest of college,

we were leading the worship for the youth group.

Started leading worship for our student ministry at the time.

And in that time, Mark Hall came to be the youth pastor of the church I grew up in.

And I was still there.

I had plans to hold it all together

playing my five chords on guitar and lead worship for all these students.

Kind of... Kind of be the glue that held it together

until Mark got there and got in place and then I was gonna be like,

"Bye. I'm going to this other church that all my friends left to go to."

Mark just, kind of... They all sucked me in.

They just, kind of, engulfed me into their ministry.

And I stayed and... here we are.

So, they never had a singing youth pastor before.

And, And I was like, "Hey, man. I wanna sing with you guys."

And we started leading worship for our youth group.

And I just did what I know to do.

And, so that's when we made the first Crowns CD,

was with that group of people.

And we would give those to the students.

It was kind of like a track

that would have the gospel on there and would have Bible verses.

It was really just for the students to give out to their friends

and get them to come to church.

But then, some parents would come on Wednesdays and hear these songs

and they'd ask Mark, "Where can we find the song?"

And then he was like,

"Right here every Wednesday."

The funny part is, Hector, the first guitar player,

he remembered, like, we did a Disciple Now at our church with other bands.

And he's like, "That's the first time I heard the name Casting Crowns."

I was sitting at the drums. And somebody goes,

"Hey, here's Casting Crowns."

And he's like... MELODEE: Who's that?

"that's us."

Mark had pretty much came up with the name Casting Crowns.

The name comes from Revelation 4.

And if you read, John sees all the elders around the throne of Christ

and their crowns that they were given,

they're laying them at the feet of Jesus.

I didn't know what to think about it. I was like,

"What? We're naming a band? This is crazy."

I was the pastor here at Eagle's Landing for 31 years.

And our church was, um, looking for a student pastor.

And, I... I knew what I was looking for

but I didn't know who I was looking for.

And I don't even remember who gave me Mark's name.

But when I called him to reach out to him, I had a great connection.

There was no pretention, no trying to impress anybody.

It's just, "Hey, this is who I am.

"This is what God has made me to be."

We have a song called "We Are The Body."

And, um, most of the words came from this, um,

or a couple of other places like James 2.

But this is a really special, um, passage.

So, don't get up and go to the bathroom while I'm reading this,

or I will throw a Bible at you.

All right. Kidding, kind of.

Um...

We were actually sitting at the parking lot here at the church.

And, he said, "Hey, Pastor, can you listen to this CD?"

It was a CD that they had made. A home-made CD.

And, So, we popped it in the truck and sat there and listened to it.

And, I can just remember being stunned.

I just looked at him and said, "Mark, if the world ever hears this,

"I mean, you're not gonna be here very long."

So, there's a kid in my youth group, actually a college kid, named Chase.

And Chase Tramont goes off to basketball camp.

He meets Mark Miller, the lead singer of Sawyer Brown.

Welcome to Sawyer Brown Live.

Chase comes up to me, I didn't know him at the time,

and he says, "My coach says you're famous, and I've never heard of you."

And we both started laughing.

And he said, "Well, the best band in the world plays at my church."

And so I say, "Well, you know what,

"I thought I had the best band in the world.

"But I would love to hear what you think is the best band in the world."

So, he went in and pulled out of his gym bag the CD and he gave it to me.

In our business, we get tapes and CDs and stuff all the time.

And for the most part, 99% of the time, they're really not very good.

It's a Sunday night in McDonough, Georgia.

I'm at Johnny's Pizza with a couple of guys from the youth group.

And I get a phone call.

And it's this guy.

He says, "Hey, this is Mark Miller of Swayer Brown.

And I'm like, "Whoa! Okay. Hey, how are you?"

He goes, "Man, I'm listening to your music.

"This kid named Chase gave me your CD."

And I'm like, "Chase!" Right?

And he says, "I'm here with a friend of mine, Steven Curtis Chapman."

And I'm like...

"Yes, yes. I'm familiar. I believe I've heard the name."

You know he's only my hero.

So, I'm just playing it cool.

And, um, he says, "Man, we're listening to your songs."

And, he said, "Man, you got something to say."

And, And I... I'm... I don't even know what to say back.

I am walking to Wednesday-night meal just from the office complex,

and Mark Hall says, "Hey, Pastor Tim."

And he said, "I think somebody's spoofing me."

I was like, "What are you talking about?"

He said, "Somebody just called me

"and said they were Steven Curtis Chapman."

We used to vacation with some very dear friends,

Mark Miller and his brother Frank Miller.

So, we had a lot of fun together and laughed, and, you know,

we talk about music, faith, talk about family all those things.

And at some point, I remember Mark Miller saying,

"Hey, I've got a CD of a group."

There's something really special going on here.

I popped the CD in and... the first song I heard was "If We Are The Body"

It's challenging. It's asking questions.

It's convicting.

But it's not pointing the finger like, "What's wrong with you?"

It was the very first day for Terry Hemmings, the new president of,

what at the time was called, Provident label group or Provident Music.

And I was the General Manager of Reunion Records.

My first day on the job I brought this cassette in,

had a meeting with the executive team,

went into Dean Diehl's office and played him "If We Are The Body."

I was just like "What is this?"

It wasn't just something that just made you feel good.

It was something that shook you up a little bit.

How do we do this? Let's do this now.

In this first conversation, I am going through,

like, what the record deal would look like.

'Cause Terry told me to call him up and sign him to a record deal.

So, I am going through the whole thing,

and there's, like, silence on the call.

And he said, "Man, all that sounds great. But I just have one question.

"Am I still gonna be able to be a youth pastor?"

He said to me, "Pastor, listen. You gotta hold me accountable

"through every conversation we have, through all the contracts stuff.

"And if they say you gotta choose between student pastor and a musician,

"it's student pastor.

"I'm not gonna do this."

We had a list of, like, 10 or 12 things,

"This is what it takes to be a successful new artist

"in this business, in this industry."

And we had our checklist.

And so, in my mind, I am talking to Mark Hall and I am asking questions

and Mel's there and we are talking,

and not a lot of the boxes are getting checked.

There's no way. He can't do both of these.

But at the end of the conversation,

Mark said, "Hey, bottom line is I am a student pastor."

And he looked at me and I said, "Hey, he just... he told me

"my job is to hold him accountable for God's calling.

"Whatever you guys gotta do to work this out that's what we need to do."

I don't... I don't know if they thought we were naive

and we probably were.

When I walked over there, I remember driving home thinking to myself,

"Man, we just got

"a great student pastor, and he is doing fantastic,

"and they are gonna... he is gonna be gone."

God, we pray that people fill this place up tonight.

That whatever walls we are building around, whatever it is,

that we would see that you can handle it.

That Lord, you'd... open us up a little bit more tonight.

We know you don't need this whole concert to do that,

but it would be awesome if we could be here

on the night you did that for somebody.

And let it start with us.

Lord, thank you that you are patient with us to wait.

Lord, I thank you that you can do so much more

than we can ask or think or imagine.

I pray that you just start helping us to ask, to think and to imagine.

In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

Well, I am just anxious to feel the presence of the Lord tonight

'cause these are songs of truth and from the heart,

and when people hear this they hear Jesus.

Their music... if I'm having a bad day at work, I turn their music on,

I've got it downloaded on my phone,

and it just instantly uplifts me.

Casting Crowns and their lyrics just...

it's real life and it reaches your heart.

I was working with Steven Curtis Chapman and... one of my heroes,

and we are working on a song and I remember him saying

there is something that Bill Gaither told him,

"There's the 'So what?' test."

When you finish writing what you're writing, "Okay. So what?

"What are you saying? What's the point of that?"

And that has always stuck with me.

If somebody's gonna give me four minutes of their life, three minutes of their life, um,

what am I telling them?

I was struggling with a lot of mental distress.

I had just given my life back to the Lord

and I just know that the enemy was just trying to almost make me feel like,

"You are doing the wrong thing."

Lot of lies that we're just bombarding my mind,

and it would be hard for me to sleep at night.

I came across this song "The Voice of Truth."

"Tells me a different story. The voice of truth says, 'Do not be afraid.'"

I would listen to that song on repeat all night long,

and that song just buried into my spirit.

It taught me that Jesus is the truth,

and there is no lie that is gonna stop Him from being who He is

and Him from being... me from being who I am in Him.

And it revolutionized my relationship with the Lord

and from then, I have not had any more emotional distress at all.

It was a delivering experience.

My husband, he used to attend a lot of meetings,

and he was on his way back.

He... He caught COVID.

And it hit him hard. Um...

He asked me to call 911 because he couldn't breathe.

Um... Paramedics came.

When they let me go into the room,

all I did was play worship music,

you know, the songs that he loved,

you know, all the Casting Crowns.

It was hard for me because...

it was hard for me to let go.

So, "Scars In Heaven."

Who would have thought that I would be playing that song in my husband's service?

And I know that he is with our God.

That song was just so perfect because,

although he is not here with me,

he got spiritual healing completely.

My girls. That's their song with him.

It just rings so close to us

because that's the person who has them, the one who has scars in his hands.

So, it's 2003 when Crowns, kind of, happened everywhere else.

Everybody here was used to us, you know?

And, so when we got signed, there was a lot of fear, I think, in the church.

You know, it's just like, "What's that mean? Is Mark gonna go off?"

And there were little murmurings.

I think it was a Wednesday night. I just kind of addressed it.

I said, "Guys, I'm hearing a lot of you guys think that, you know,

"we are gonna become these artists and disappear. Just be gone.

"And the church is gonna be left high and dry.

"You know, I think the reason you think that

"is probably because that's what you would do.

"But that's not who we are.

"Casting Crowns was gonna be part of Eagle's Landing.

"Just one more ministry like any other mission's ministry in the church

"that heads out and shares Jesus on the road."

It doesn't make it very financially easy

when you are only gonna do three shows a week

because Mark wanted to be in the office.

He wanted to be at church on Sunday morning.

And the office at church on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,

and then with the youth group on Wednesday night,

it did create its challenges in the beginning.

But there was still always the purpose and the goal.

I would love to say I was the guy that immediately went,

"This is gonna work. This is gonna be awesome. I feel God at work" and stuff.

I am the guy that's gonna actually put together a marketing plan

where I don't have access to the artists.

And touring. Am I gonna be able to get these guys on a tour?

I love this guy, but I have said no to a lot of artists that I love.

It's the first couple of days of tour.

First concert.

Second concert?

Slightly less.

We didn't really do things the way the industry did them when we first started.

The way we tour is we did Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Came back home.

That's like, "That's a whole another day that you guys can tour on Sunday."

You function in the industry as a touring group.

And touring is kind of difficult because you rent production equipment,

PA, lights, video, buses.

These are semis. We got three of them this year.

One, two, three.

This is our army of buses.

One, two, three, four... five.

Now when we travel, our family travels with us every weekend.

So, the first half of the day is all about me and my kids.

But at night, it gets a little crazy.

So, it's always special when I can slip out and see them.

Let's go see the babies.

Hello?

Daddy!

Hey, who are those people? Do you know?

No.No.

That's not fair! Can you cut out this?

He said, "Can you cut out this?"

My kid is talking about editing already.

Look at his smile.

And cut!

Let's show them what your bunks look like, okay? Come on.

Show them how you get up in there.

Ha.

Show them where you're bunking.

Hello Kitty pillow!

Wednesday night after church, we load up at midnight,

get the kids out of the bed, slide them in here,

and they're gonna wake up in whatever city we're gonna be in.

And we just roll in Sunday morning right before, um,

let's say right before Sunday school.

Right back here, it's our craft area, hang-out wing

of the estate of bus here.

This is our family. This is how we do it.

We decided from the start we're gonna do it together. So, here we be.

God's blessing us. Good stuff.

The first tour I did with him, we knew, "Hey."

Every Sunday I watched them get up at crack of dawn or leave Saturday night.

Get the bus back home.

There were challenges with routing

because there's only so many cities within striking distance of Atlanta

that I can get them back to driving in on buses.

It's definitely not that glamorous.

And you're living in tight quarters.

You're going city to city.

And how cool is that. You're getting to travel around the country.

Many days, I get to see the inside of a venue and that's it.

It was so surreal that I didn't feel like it was real life.

I thought it was this weird thing we do on the weekends

and then we come home to real life.

There would be a clean pile of clothes on the floor

and a dirty pile of clothes on the floor,

and they never made it to any drawers.

We'd just wash them and put them back in the suitcase.

And I would literally come home on Monday and stare at the wall

because I was so, like, mentally, spiritually, like, exhausted.

Where are we?

Um... Arizona.

I knew that.Nice.

I had to think about it for a second.

Hey, Mark, where are we?

We are in Glendale, Arizona. Hey!

- That's a first. - I was gonna say.

Where are we, Melodee?

They're completely oblivious that another member of the band is filming them

when they are gushing over the band.

Andy's on his eighth step. Need an oxygen bottle?

"I might not be able to carry the ring,

..."but I can carry you."

Mr. Frodo.

There is a certain smell in this area.

There has been livestock in this building before.

Wonder how they clean this. It reeks of a certain odor.

It smells like cow up in here.

They call me tour-mom Mel very often because I play the role of mom.

And I'm doling out the medicines when people are sick,

checking the fever, and checking on the spouse,

and, "How's your wife doing? And how are the kids doing?"

And trying to help encourage wherever I can.

Raising a family on the road is a little bit like home school.

Except that it is home school, and bus school, and plane school,

and boat school, hotel-room school.

We have three kids.

They've been travelling with me since they were newborns.

They have grown up on the road.

Think they have been to 48 continental states.

When you get to a venue, you think it's loud during the concert.

But it's really loud when you got guys yelling at each other.

There is a forklift driving back and forth

and things are clanging and banging.

And Melodee is trying to keep a five-year-old boy's attention.

And there's people, you know, cases going back and forth.

She's like, "I'm right here. I'm right here. Look at me.

"I'm gonna read to you. Okay. Can you do the math? Do your math."

We have four fantastic kids that we love greatly,

and they get to travel and get to meet people.

They get to learn responsibility.

They get to work and learn how to be a responsible member of society, if you will

and life skills and things.

And, um, it's been really great. I feel like it's made them really well-rounded.

Been travelling with Crowns since they started. I was about five years old.

So, that's kind of been... My whole life has been

half a week on a bus and half the week at home.

You got a little bit of mustard right there on your face.

Further. Further.

Your tongue's not gonna reach it.

See?

That's it. Attaboy. That's what I'm talking about.

This is JM on the bass guitar.

By the way, he and his wife just found out they're gonna have a baby and it is a boy.

You can look and see their track record.

They have had family travel with them on the road.

They've stayed integrated with each other.

And I know that's not easy.

I have a family at home.

They don't get to come out with me out on the road.

It's hard for me to be out here. But, I... like, I know.

I have told my wife, "If it was music for the sake of music,

"as much as I love music, I'd have to be out."

It has to be something deeper, particularly in Christian music, behind going out and just

hitting the stage every night, and feeling the adrenaline rush from being onstage.

I felt like, in many ways, we were saying hello and goodbye in one night.

I'm like, "What can possibly be done?"

I started realizing that these songs in themselves

are earning the right to tell truth to folks

because we're saying, "I don't have it together either."

So, I started seeing at that one visit of a concert

if we could drop a few little nuggets into their heart.

The first one I remember that landed with people was, "God doesn't need you.

"God wants you."

And just seeing lights come on in the room

has really given us a sense of purpose of why we're out here doing this.

Mark's always encouraging us to lift our eyes up from what we're doing

and look at what God's doing in the crowd.

And it's a good way to constantly remind us that it's not about us.

When I look at it, people are singing our songs back to us,

it's like God is connecting with that person

through a song that He let me write.

And coming back to my own church every week was a reminder of,

"You gotta remember who's who in the zoo here." Right?

The moment I start stepping, that's a very dangerous place to be, on a stage,

'cause you're standing between people in their moment with the Father.

There's this idea that the people up on the stage have got it all together.

And, you never want that to get into your head.

You know, we know we're a bunch of dorks.

It's like reverse coordinate.

It hit the board, It hit the strings and then bounced back in.

Juan. Yeah, baby. Come on now! Get you some of that!

I'm de-tuning your guitar.

What the heck, man? Hey.

I think it's easy for artists to move to Nashville

and get sucked up into all the business.

And everything and everybody just come out of the wood works.

And everybody wants something. Everybody needs something.

Kind of the first Easter that they were around,

the agent called me and he said, "Mike, you're not gonna believe this.

"We have an incredible offer for Casting Crowns to go play at this church in California.

"I'm not gonna say anything more. I'm just gonna send it over to you.

"And, I guess we'll see

"if they're serious about being home for church on Sunday."

He sends the offer, and I couldn't believe it.

And it included airfare, so there's no risk for them.

They can fly from Atlanta to California, play a big Easter service

and fly home.

It was the biggest money that they had ever seen.

And I sent it over. And I got a call almost immediately from Melanie Hall,

and said, "Mike, we're incredibly honored.

"Please tell them thank you, and we would love to come back at another time,

"but we're committed to being at our home church for Easter."

And at that moment I'm like, "I guess they're for real."

He told me at that time, and I didn't believe it.

It took me until the second record to really understand this.

He said, "I'm not a youth pastor who wants to be an artist... Also an artist.

"I'm not an artist who also wants to be a youth pastor.

"I'm not a dual-career person trying to juggle two things.

"I'm a youth pastor.

"Period."

One thing I would want you to know about us before we go tonight is that

I came so, so close to never being a youth pastor.

So, close to never even thinking about writing a song

because I had spent almost all of my life... scared.

I would have never imagined getting up in front of people and singing

much less talking.

That was not my thing.

I'm the kid in the LD classes from school.

You know, everything about life taught me,

"Stay in the back. Blend in as good as you can.

"I'm sure God has a plan, and I'm sure God can do big things to people.

"It's just not gonna be for you, Mark."

And I lived in "scared" for a long time

until I finally started letting God talk to me about "scared."

Then I see God tell Paul. 2 Corinthians 12,

where Paul has a thorn in his flesh.

"My grace is sufficient for you, and my power is gonna be made perfect in your weakness."

I thinks it's the reason there even is a Casting Crowns.

That morning, He started to say to me.

"Mark...

"I don't need you.

"I want you.

"Mark, I don't needyou.

"I want you.

"Do you think that all of these fears and limitations

"and all these things that make you feel so small are worrying me?

"You think that all these little initials you got

"from all these little tests when you were a kid

"are weighing me down?

"Mark, I am gonna do something in the world.

"I just wanna know if you wanna come."

My songs tends to start in the dark.

Art usually starts in the dark.

We were just in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame walking around the other day.

When I walked through there, I saw so much more than just music.

I saw pain, heaviness on people.

There's a hopelessness about people.

And the more loved art is usually the art that's honest

and that's usually the art that's in the dark.

And what I saw is a trend in all these bands

that I listened to as a kid in my darkest days.

All they really did was say, "It's dark. Maybe it'll get better."

Or, "It's dark. What's the use," you know?

And as a believer, I can't live my life that way anymore.

I started looking back on songs and seeing a trend in my writing.

And the trend that I see is that, they start with, "This is how I feel.

"This is what makes sense to me."

So, when I write a song, I'm gonna start with my feelings.

"This is how I feel." But now, I've gotta go to His word and say,

"God, I need you to tell me the truth about my feelings." Right?

"I know my feelings are valid, but I need to know what's true about it."

So, songs like "Voice of Truth,"

I'm dealing with... with being dyslexic, having ADD,

flunking classes every semester, you know?

And going, "Why in the world am I here?"

Um, that's where the song starts.

I received a text from Jack, March 2nd.

It was a day before my birthday,

and I was in a meeting in my office.

And when I was reading his text, it said,

"I'm dying."

I grew up in McDonough. I've been there all my life.

Been in church all my life.

My parents have been heavily involved in the church

whether it's my mom working or my dad volunteering.

I met Jack when he was about fifth grade.

He grew up with my son, John Michael.

So, that whole friend group came through the youth group together.

I saw very early on that Jack had a soft heart.

Me being dyslexic and ADD, I can always sense when somebody processes a little different.

And... you know, Jack has some of the same things you struggle with in school

that I struggled with.

And just always had a special place in my heart for Jack.

He and his best friends formed this band in high school.

After graduation, they actually were playing gigs around Atlanta.

Solo Jones was the band and it went farther than I ever though it would.

I was having a hard time

with how I viewed a drummer in a rock band or a rock band in general.

Like, I had this vision of, "Let's party. Let's get drunk. Let's go on the stage buzzing."

I could tell that he was fading. And I would chat with him every once in a while.

And he would be, "All right. Okay. All right."

I was skateboarding, and I was in an accident,

and I broke a couple of ribs.

I had somebody really close to me very innocently gave me painkillers.

When I was taking those pills, I felt more confident,

and I felt like I knew myself.

I wasn't as introverted. I felt more talkative.

I felt like people liked me more.

It's such a sick thing because...

My gosh.

You know, no one tells you that

as you take these, your tolerance is gonna get higher.

And no one tells you that it's changing, like,

some hard-core chemistry in your brain.

And, I'm not blaming anybody. This is... All of these things were my fault.

I had so hardly rewired my brain

that reward system that's in my mind, that knows nothing that is good or bad.

It just knows that it wants to feel that... that high again.

I remember one night him talking to me when it got a little dark for him.

And it was catching up to him.

So, we sat down in Waffle House.

And probably around midnight, it's the best time to be at Waffle House,

and we just start talking about life.

I really opened up for the first time about what I was thinking

and, like, where I was spiritually.

He was like, "Well, you know, I just...

"I just always heard about Jesus, and it's always been what I've grown up with.

"But what if there's just more out there?"

And I just remember telling him,

"Jack, the love of God is inescapable,

"and you can run Him away, you can party Him away,

"you can try to question Him away.

"But at the end of every day,

"it's just you looking up at your ceiling fan knowing that He's here."

Mark listened to me. He listened to my doubts,

and he made me realize that to come to Christ, like to be surrendered,

you don't have to, like, not doubt.

You don't have to have it all figured out.

There have always been people in my life

that knew what I've done wrong.

But because of Jesus, they didn't burn bridges.

There's always a bridge there.

And one of the things that I always wanted Jack to know

is that this bridge is always here.

So, I'll always tell him the same thing.

I tell him the truth. I tell him what he doesn't wanna hear.

And I'd remind him I'm always in your corner.

You tell me you wanna talk, and I'm right here.

And he would run,

and he would fall off a cliff.

But he knew I'm gonna be here.

And it wasn't just me, it was a lot of people

that were there for him, just like there are people there for me.

In high school, growing up with my best friends, they're still my best friends,

if someone were to tell me, "You're gonna take pictures of their bank account

"so that later you can go and drain it so you can just keep getting high."

You know, I would think that's the most ridiculous thing ever.

It was a few days before Christmas, actually.

I get a call from his best friend and he said,

"You know, Jack has stolen from the band and something has to happen."

He said, "He cannot come back until there is some kind of intervention."

On Christmas Eve is when I texted Mark, I texted my pastor, um,

and I texted my therapist.

I'm like, "Hey, I need help. I don't know what else to do."

We're eating... dinner

and I get a text from Mark saying, "Hi, is Jack okay?"

And I get call right after that text come. It was from Pastor Tim.

Two weeks after that, um, is when I went to a retreat center.

They have an aspect of it called "Colony of Mercy,"

and it's for addiction recovery.

It was faith-based, and at the time, I didn't want faith-based at all.

You know, looking back on it, it was because I was really ashamed

and I didn't want Jesus to do anything about it.

I remember standing in the parking lot when he was leaving,

and I told him, "So, Jack, you're not going up there,

"to find out who you are.

"You're going up there for God to remind you who you are."

My parents, and Mark, my friends are a perfect picture

of somebody stepping down to the mess I made and walking with me through it.

I didn't deserve the help that I was being given, but I'm very grateful for it

because a few of my friends that I met at rehab

don't have the support system I have.

They don't have the family, they don't have the friends.

They don't have the pastor. They don't have the church.

We had planned to go and visit Jack at rehab in March.

Casting Crowns was going to be having a concert there at Trenton, New Jersey.

And Melanie said, "Well, why not we give tickets, you know, to the whole rehab?"

So, that's what they did.

And I get a call from Mark, and he said, "Hey, they just closed us down."

That was the day that, you know, most of America closed down because of COVID.

We have a tour meeting, and, we said, "This is not gonna happen.

"We're gonna have to find a way to get home and keep our families safe."

But the first thing I thought was, "Dude, we're an hour from Jack."

So, I looked over at Josh, I looked over at Juan and said, "We're gonna go see Jack."

We brought our acoustics. We're playing songs acoustic to them

just to encourage them

and see our friend and hug his neck.

You know, we don't have TVs. We don't have cell phones there.

But every Friday night, they would let us watch music videos on YouTube.

Somebody, without fail, would always play a Crowns song

whether it was "Nobody," "My Soul."

But they really played "Nobody" every single time.

It was gonna be cool for my friends that I had met to go to this concert,

but now it's gonna be even cooler that they're coming here.

This was my youth pastor, and he just happens to be in a famous band now.

Walking into that room and seeing Jack walk through those pews, to get to me

was, I could already see he was different.

We kind of surprised him about half-way through. And...

We're playing some songs and we got to the song "Voice of Truth."

"Voice of Truth" is all about laying down some lies

and understanding that what's true about you is what God says about you.

That's what true about you.

And, in my head a million times, it was like, "Don't do this. Don't do this. Don't do this."

I said, "I'm doing it.

"Jack. Come up here, Jack." Everybody's cheering Jack on. Jack gets up on that stage.

That was the first time Jack had played the drums in months and months.

And they did not allow you to play any instrument. It was part of the disciplines.

And so, it was a God moment for him.

What he loves... and his gift.

All right.

Ha had resigned himself to... he was cutting grass.

He told me... He says, "I don't care if I ever play drums again."

The dark places that he had been,

he felt like that was, kind of, a place where... that he could just leave behind.

And he would just be content playing in church is what he told me.

I was just getting to a place of contentment, um,

and starting to grasp the fact that

if my life is not revolved around music, like, it's okay.

It sucked for sure. It was hard. But, you know, I was slowly getting to the point of,

"This isn't for me."

What he didn't know was right about that time,

Brian, our drummer, was deciding it was time for him to come off the road.

His sons were getting about middle school, high school.

He had an opportunity

to work with a non-profit that helps foster families,

and it was just the perfect time for him.

I knew I was gonna need a drummer.

But I knew that I needed Jack to walk with Jesus more than I needed a drummer.

So, I didn't say a word about it.

And every time we met, we talked about Jack we talked about Jesus.

I remember him showing me the tattoos on his arms and how they all had stories.

He was kind of ashamed of some of his ink.

I said, "Man, that's not you anymore."

You got new stories for those. You have a brand-new story now.

And I remember him telling me like, "I really wanna play drums."

He said, "But I'm scared of the places that I have to go to play drums."

He's still haunted by the people that he hurt, people in our church.

And months of him learning to trust Jesus through hard times,

facing his parents again, going back to his house again, dealing with his brothers again,

trying to reform relationships that had been so broken, right?

And I remember the day he was in my office. He said,

"Mark, I think... I don't think I ever would have said this,

"but I think that I'm okay with releasing drumming.

"I need Jesus more than I need drumming."

That's when I knew it was time.

I went to his dad first.

He was saying that, "Hey, how's Jack doing?"

I said, "Man, Jack's doing really good right now."

And I said, "Vic, Brian's stepping down as drummer."

And Vic is a lot like me. Vic cries first and asks questions later.

He said, "How about we just let him come on tour with us and see how it works out."

And at that point I start getting ahold of Jack to talk to him.

I said, "Man, I'm wondering if you're free in the spring."

I'm cutting grass, and I'm pressure-washing houses. That's what I'm doing.

I said, "I'd like for you to sit in and play drums on this tour."

And he looked at me like a kid.

He said, "See if you like it." I'm thinking, "Bro, I'm gonna like it."

I just go ahead and say, "I'm gonna like it."

And he's sitting back and he says, "Is this real?"

I just felt like somebody was gonna come out with a camera and say, "Gotcha!"

Since I was a little kid, that's what I wanted.

I literally cannot believe this is happening.

Here's some of the things that are gonna have to happen.

You know, we're gonna put some safeguards. We're gonna put guard rails.

But I know that I need you. And I know that all of your life has led you to right this...

this moment.

He said, "Does Brian know?"

Talking about our old drummer.

I said, "Yeah, Brian knows." And he said, "Does Brian think I can do it?"

"Jack...

"none of us are good enough to do this.

"That's what makes Casting Crowns what it is.

"We're all in over our heads.

"God's letting us do this. And I think God's gonna let you do this."

The whole story of "Nobody" is John the Baptist was asked,

you know, "Who are you?"

Um, and that was his moment to kind of shine.

And he's like, "Man, I'm just a voice."

And... because he knew. He saw Jesus for who he was. And he knew...

Every time I sing that song,

I'm gonna hear those guys singing it louder than... louder than Mark was singing it.

My songs start in the dark, but I've gotta let God speak light into that

and then I gotta follow Him out.

"East to West" it's me struggling with God's forgiveness

and just feeling haunted.

"God, just how far is this East from the West?

"I mean, are you still with me after all of this?"

And I go to his word, and it says, "Yes, he is." Right?

Songs like that, for me, that's where everybody lives.

So, It's easy to write songs where everybody lives

because... we're all a bunch of train wrecks, right?

Having these lyrics set to music where these people are singing scripture over their lives,

they're singing hard truths and good truths and... I think it's a beautiful thing.

People don't walk around with a CD of their favorite preacher.

You don't remember sermons as well as you do a song.

You can say something to me, but if I hear it in, like, a bridge of a song,

it's gonna totally resonate in a different spot in my mind.

I'm not good with putting words together.

I'm not the brightest crayon in the box.

But music was something that always stuck.

When I started playing guitar, it was just like,

"I love this. This is where I can be me."

Um, and then when I realized that I can do that for God

and honor Him and know Him more,

it was just, "I'm sold. I'm done.

"This is what I'm doing for the rest of my life."

You can see hurting,

dealing with their hard stuff,

or they're going through storms,

very easily in the crowd.

I usually try and remember like, "We're here.

"And we get the opportunity to sing these songs

"that God is using in all these people's lives."

Those moments that help me to remember to keep my eyes up,

and to try to gauge whatever the Lord's doing out there because that's what matters.

You know, it might be my five hundredth time playing a song.

I can probably play these songs in my sleep.

It's just muscle memory at this point.

But it might be that person's first time hearing it or hearing it live.

And that matters.

God bless you guys. Thanks for coming.

You listen to someone's story long enough,

you will hear the moment they needed God to show up a certain way,

and He didn't show up that way.

And when God doesn't show up the way you need Him to,

you gotta figure out what you're gonna do with that.

And in our little minds, we're like,

"Okay, either He doesn't love me, or He's not there."

We were out on the road. I'm dealing with acid reflux,

dealing with throat issues, voice issues.

I've had voice problems just all through Crowns

until having surgery just a few years ago on my chords.

Can you sing it again... again from the top?

That feels really good.

We gotta write a song with that in it.

All right. We're gonna try this. I'll get you some tea.

So, I went to the doctor for acid reflux, and he did a scan.

I left the doctor. The doctor's a friend of mine, Scott.

And, I went to a funeral, and I came out of the funeral

and I was just ready to hear something from him.

And I looked at my phone and I see a text from Scott.

And it just says, "I need you to call me."

And I stood in the foyer of that church.

People just walking by, and it's like everything just slowed down.

And I just read that text over and over and over.

And all I can think was, something's about to happen.

Just something's about to happen.

And I walked out of the parking lot, and I called Scott.

And he said, "You gotta a mass on one of your kidneys.

"And, I don't think we're gonna need to try to test it or anything.

"I think we just need to take the whole thing and test it later.

"It's, like, it's... it's large, and it looks a little aggressive."

And, and I'm sitting...

I'm standing in the parking lot like we're talking about somebody else.

Like... I'm the pastor guy that walks other people through their hard time.

And I'm hearing him talk to me. And I'm this guy... I'm just thinking,

"We need to pray for this guy."

You know, like, "No, this is me. This is happening right now."

I started walking around the parking lot.

And, I remember looking up in the sky, and there wasn't a star anywhere.

It was just gray.

I remember thinking, "God, what are we doing? What is happening?"

You know, "What does this mean?"

It was a really hard day.

Went to the doctor.

Came home. We're in the car. We pull into the driveway.

We just sit there for a minute

knowing that we're the only two people that know.

So, we say, "God, that you that you're not anxious about this,

"and I gotta lean into you."

And I know that He can calm the storm,

or He might just sit down next to me and say,

"I love you, but this is gonna happen.

"And we're gonna walk through it."

And one of the first songs that I wrote like that

was a song called "Praise You In This Storm."

And we walked with a family. They're losing their little girl to cancer.

Erin started to dance when she was about three years old.

She loved ballet, tap, jazz.

She was known for her smile, and people loved being around her.

She wasn't perfect. By no means was Erin perfect.

But she loved the Lord. My goodness.

The girls were listening to music that we felt, like,

it was inappropriate for young girls to be listening to.

So, he did some research and found Casting Crowns.

We introduced that music to them

and they just started listening to them every day, all the time.

Erin was so excited. Meribeth was too.

They wanted to meet Mark Hall and the band.

We were starting to get emails. Never got any emails.

I'm not used to anyone other than my church hearing the songs, you know?

So, we were just starting to hear from people,

and we connected with a little girl named Erin,

who had performed a dance at her school to one of our songs.

And met the family. And right about the time we connected with Erin,

that's when they discovered that the reason she wasn't getting well,

and she kind of stayed sick was it was cancer.

She only had about 2-3% chance of survival.

And then in about three months we would probably start treating her

for quality of life instead of quantity of life.

She came to me and said, "Mom, I had a dream."

We found out that I had cancer widespread throughout my whole body.

So, we got down on our knees and then we started praying and praying.

It was hard. We trusted God.

We trusted that He was gonna heal me and work a miracle in me.

And sure enough, He sent an angel to me in a dream.

And the angel said, "You're gonna be okay."

Four months later, in January, we went back for a scan.

And they said, "It's normal."

We're like, "Normal, as in nothing's changed,

"or normal, as in there's no cancer?"

They're like, "Normal, as in there's no cancer."

So, then they turn to me and they were like,

"What do you have to say about that, Erin?" And I said, "Well...

"Am I supposed to be surprised?"

But they don't like to say cancer-free.

There's no sign of cancer is what they told us.

The last year, she couldn't attend class.

So, we decided that... We thought it would be really special

to do a private solo dance with just the four of us.

Erin and Meribeth chose a song and it happened to be a Casting Crowns song

called "Here I Go Again."

We practiced all year long, and we danced to that song at the Carolina theatre.

So, shortly after we met Casting Crowns, Erin started feeling bad.

So, we called the doctor and moved up the bone scan by about three weeks

and found out that her cancer had returned to her lungs.

She had already had 12 months' worth of chemotherapy,

nine weeks' worth of heavy-duty radiation.

I talked to Erin, and we prayed about it.

And she said that she would choose heaven over chemo.

And we knew, and she knew where she was going when she died.

But I didn't want her to die.

I wanted her to live.

And even though I'm praying for God's will to be done,

and I wanting God's will to be done,

I wanting God's will to be my will.

And He just had a whole bigger view of things than I did.

I remember talking to Erin one night and telling her

'cause I was so excited I was like, "I'm writing a song for you."

She was so excited that she screamed.

Mark just sat down and talked to Erin like they were best friends,

and they really did become best friends after that.

They were phoning each other all the time, you know, emailing constantly.

At one point, she was having trouble breathing.

And I said to Erin, "What can I do for you?"

And she said, "Just read the scriptures."

So, I sat on her bed, and I read the scriptures that had meant so much to us.

4:24 a.m. on November 1st,

at that point I had gotten in her bed, and Joey had helped lay her in my arms.

And at 4:24 she opened her eyes, and looked up.

And I said, "Erin, do you see Jesus?"

And she took one last breath.

And we had been warned that her last moments might be terrifying,

but they weren't.

She just took one last breath.

And the peace that I literally felt, like,

raining down on me at that moment

was the miracle that was beyond any miracle I had prayed for.

I knew she was with Jesus.

And I knew I would see her again.

We saw what worship looked like in a hard time,

and I remember it speaking so much to me.

And I want people to see that we don't worship God because today is good,

we worship God because God is good today, right?

So, there's a... there's something that's gotta happen

that only He can do in your heart.

So, ever since the Crowns have been a band,

we've sung the songs like "Praise You In This Storm,"

"Already There," "Just Be Held," "My Soul," "Desert Road"

because people need to see how to navigate that and trust God through it.

FedEx drops off a box, and it's from Mark.

And I'm like, "What could that be?"

And I cut... went to cut the tape, and I stopped, and I remembered

I just watched him win a Dove award for this song.

I wonder if it had something to do with that.

You know, and we... open the box and there's the Dove Award,

and I'm like, "Ain't no way he gave that away."

We received two of these because of a songwriter in the band.

And we're gonna send one of these to Ms. Laurie

along with all the letters that we've collected over the two years

of, just, people all over the country encouraged by Erin's ministry,

of the storm that they went through.

And I pray more that this a more special time for them than it is for us.

While I was up on stage, he gave me the book.

And it was just full of emails that he had received

from people who wanted to share what the song had meant to them,

how it had ministered to them,

changed their lives, touched their lives.

We've seen Casting Crowns play in concert many times.

It'll never be enough because every time I hear that song,

it's like Erin's back.

Reading the emails just solidified the miracle

that I see happening still with that song

and how Erin was instrumental in being used

like she wanted to be used by God to touch others.

And so, it means so much to us as a family.

Just seeing how the impact of what Mark was going through

impacted other people,

I knew that whatever it was, that God was gonna walk with us through the storm,

and we were just gonna have to trust Him in the middle of it.

At the end of the day, he just saw that as another way

that God was fashioning him into the image of His son

so that He might be glorified through his life.

I think it also let people know

that, you know, even if you're in the spotlight on the stage,

you're a real person.

I think that's an encouragement to everyone, and it has been

through his songs and even through what he shares at concerts.

Maybe one of the best ways that he ministers to people,

that are walking through similar things in their life,

God can get you through, and he's speaking from experience.

Sing it.

Right?

They are arguably the most successful artist in the last 20-25 years.

And they've sold 12 million records,

18 Dove awards, 15 number one songs.

There is certainly a success factor,

but there's an impact that is immeasurable.

All those awards and accolades are just a reflection

of a much greater and important component of their career.

Mark used to say this way back, I can't believe I can remember it,

that a song can change your day

but only God can change your life.

We've been able to visit a number of countries,

thirty-eight countries I think is where the count is currently

in the past 18 years.

Brazil and Kenya, Germany and...

we've been to Singapore a couple of times,

we've been to North Korea.

How did we get here?

When you start thinking about all the fame

that comes with a ministry like this just blossoming around the world,

it's so easy for that to go to your head.

You're on the stage, and they're in the audience, and there's a distance,

and this is one of the things I've wrestled with because it's isolating.

There's a detachment

from really where the people that you're ministering to and singing to are

if you allow it to be.

We see a lot of artists. And they go and give everything that they have.

And they're on stage every night, and they come off.

And maybe they're addicted to that adrenaline.

They're addicted to the rush of being on stage.

If there's ever a thing that's gonna turn an artist's head,

it's being at the Grammy Awards.

He's up in the front seats with all the nominees.

I'm way up in the back, you know, with the paying customers.

And I get this text from Mark, and it just said, "They're all here."

And my initial thought was,

"Aw, Mark. Don't tell me you're getting your head turned by these guys here.

"You've won a Grammy. You're sitting down here

"with all the big stars that you've known your whole life."

I, kind of, have to confess my first thought was a little disappointment.

And then he continued to text,

"These are the people I'm at war with for the minds of my kids.

"These are the people writing the songs and writing the lyrics

"that are telling them the lies that are destroying their lives.

"And I'm sitting down here with them."

Well, the song that we're nominated for, I wrote...

I started writing the night that I found out I had cancer.

I'm good now, but that at time it was a pretty scary word to hear a doctor say to you.

And, just dealing with fear and having to understand

that I'm gonna have to, instead of going with the feelings that I'm feeling,

I gotta go with the God that I know right now.

He just looked at me, and he said, "I don't belong here."

And again I misunderstood, like, "You absolutely belong here."

He goes, "No, no, no, no. I don't belong here."

And I thought, "Gosh, even here he's a youth pastor."

They can play in front of huge audiences on Thursday, Friday and Saturday night.

They roll up on Sunday morning in the church parking lot.

Mark takes a bird bath in the sink

to get ready to lead worship on Sunday morning.

But before he even makes it in, he's met by one of his teenagers,

who's got no place else to go. Nobody else to talk to.

And he's the one they're coming to.

These kids need this. And I think, Mark and the band, they need that too.

Fame is a big secret.

And everybody that would be called "famous" knows the secret.

And it's that there is no such thing as famous, right?

The only people you are famous to are people that don't know you.

So, as soon as they know you, they're like, "you're not famous." Right?

So, I think the fact that we're grounded in a place, where we are just us,

it keeps us who we are.

You can give Crowns, you can give us guys all the awards you want.

You can rank them whatever you want.

It's just not gonna stick to them

because we're still in the same place doing the same thing.

The Body of Christ right here so...

Now it's dragging. And so you go to the first line then you got to choose...

Let us pray. God, thanks for the chance to be in front your people today.

God, we pray that we lead them always to you.

Thank you for the chance to be a part of this church.

Bless us in Jesus' name. Amen. ALL: Amen.

We're no different than the other people sitting next to us at church.

They go out every week and they do what God has gifted them to do

when they use their gifts to reach the world with the gospel in their way.

Mark always says, "You wanna stay humble,

"go play in front of thousands of people on Saturday night

"and then show up on Sunday morning.

"Get off the bus, walk in for church

"and get snubbed by a middle schooler who says,

"'So, why weren't you at my game last night?'"

Last night, sold out, some city. People having a great time.

Today, I'm a bus driver.

But I'm a pretty big deal, right, guys?

Yeah, yeah.

Keeps things in perspective.

And so as otherworldly and awesome as this was,

you always came back home and you're just still you.

We wanna pour into the people that we do life with first and foremost

and then anything beyond that we wanna pour into the big C, church.

Mark has continued to be involved in the church.

He's still a youth pastor.

And I still believe that's why he's able to write

with the impact on the church that he writes with.

We love our people. And when you love people, you can speak truth.

What pastoring has taught me is that you speak hard truth out of your own brokenness.

You don't tell the world what you've learned,

you tell the world what you're learning.

You don't say, "If you're the body, this is what you need to be doing."

You say, "If we are the body, why aren't we doing this?"

We had our second kick-off concert for their tour here at the church.

And all those guys came back from the label.

I remember Norman walked up to me and he said,

"Man, I gotta tell you something. I'm so sorry.

"You guys weren't dumb, we were.

"We did not understand that all this music comes out of this place."

Mark's testimony is, "God took a boy

"that was dyslexic and had school challenges

"and then chose to write songs that would win American Music Awards

"and Billboard Awards and Grammy Awards,

"and he chose to use that boy to do that."

He could have used the strongest soldier in Saul's army to defeat Goliath,

but he chose to use David.

When people saw Goliath on the ground,

they didn't look and say, "Look what David did."

They looked and saw, "Look what God did."

If we'll just let Him use us, He'll accomplish things that people will look at Him

and say, "Look how good God is."

As beautiful as art can be

if it's not pointing to the truth,

we're steering people in the wrong direction.

On my best day writing a song, what I'm really writing is an arrow.

I'm pointing to something.

So, if you're a little closer to Jesus because of this song, then we did something, right?

So, that's why I write music.

That's why music is powerful to me

because it can point us to the Father.

Can we give the Lord a shout tonight?

We are not the point. We are all here to point to the point.

Raise your hand like this. Sing it with me.