All language subtitles for klepper_s01e06_this_is_my_gun_these_are_my_rights

What is it? What would you call this?
That's an AR -15. That's the mass

one. No, that one.

Any of them can be the mass shooter one.
No, but specifically the last few mass

shootings have been that one. Not that
one. No.

Not the AR -15? Not that one.

Oh, not that one.

I've seen the heat.

CJ Grisham is riding a GT Timberline
road bike with Michelin off -road tires

with Trail Shield technology and packing
a Blackjack firearm AR -15 with a 30

-round magazine.

He's on a crusade. I'm trying to say
that not everybody that's got a gun is a

threat to anybody, that this is what a
good guy with a gun looks like. I've had

more people yell at me and say bad
things to me wearing a MAGA hat than I

wearing a rifle.

With a MAGA hat, you're wearing a logo
that's connected to an ideology.

That, that's a fucking threat.

It's weird how some people feel that
way.

This is a show about activists.

And as uncomfortable as I am around
guns, some of America's most effective

activists are the ones fighting to
expand gun rights.

And they aren't doing it with poster
boards. I'm always trying to get rid of

shock factor of seeing a gun. I think
people have been conditioned, oh gosh,

there's a guy with a gun.

I'm going to call 911.

That's a good condition.

Well, is it? When I see somebody going
to church, I don't... Call the police

say, hey, they're exercising their First
Amendment rights. Yeah, well, people

aren't getting killed with churches
around the country.

Some people are getting killed in
churches.

Yeah, with guns.

CJ is the founder of Open Carry Texas, a
group that wants to normalize the sight

of people carrying guns into Chipotle
and loosen Texas gun laws.

They've been effective. In 2016, OCT
successfully lobbied the state to

licensed open carry of handguns. Are we
done?

No!

And their gun introduction tour isn't
done yet.

Do y 'all mind if I come in and get a
drink? I've got a rifle, but I'm not a

threat. I just want to get a drink. I
want a bike ride.

By law, we can't. Oh, no, by law, you
can't. I've got a license.

You've got a license? Yeah.

Okay, you sure?

Yeah, I can't have all these cameras in
here, y 'all.

It's like cameras can't come in, but the
AR can. You never know.

Cameras can come in and shoot this place
up.

Is that feeling all weird?

Yeah, it does.

Feels a little strange.

of the day, as long as it stays right
there on his back and I'm watching him,

I'm okay.

Do you guys have any protection back
there?

Oh, you do.

Good. That makes me feel better.

No, it's good. I mean, for you, it makes
me feel better for y 'all.

Am I the only one here without a gun on
me?

Probably.

I ain't got a gun on me.

Okay, that's good to know.

Open Carry Texas supporters wish for
constitutional carry, where all legal

owners can carry without a license.

Constitutional carry means that if you
can legally buy a gun, you can carry it

into a Smashburger or an office supply
store. Everything's good here in

so carry on. Without an additional
license.

And today, CJ and 30 of his OCP buddies
are headed to a parade in Gonzales,

Texas, to spread the word.

Hey, what's going on, George? This is a
big day, huh? This is it. What is the

goal of this event here today? What
we're going to do is we're going to be

walking along the parade route and
handing out flyers telling people why

should support constitutional carry.

And I think we're going to have a lot of
support.

Because this is Texas, where the state
bird is a revolver, OCT isn't even the

only activist group open carrying today.

250 miles north, a second, totally
unrelated group is using guns to draw

attention to their cause.

My friend Kobe Labee is embedding with
them. We're curious how the experience

this group that open carries may differ
from this group that open carries.

So what do you know right now going into
this?

I mean, hardly anything, right? So I
know I'm meeting this group called

Guerrilla Mainframe. I know that they're
a group of black activists and that

they opened Cary to protest police
brutality.

And I know that we're in the South,
which has never had a problem with black

guys with guns.

I think you're going to be totally fine.
I wouldn't worry at all. Okay. You have

the confidence that only a white man
with security can have.

It's true. I doubted police and people
in Texas would bat an eye at dozens of

mostly white guys packing heat.

Now, it was time to pitch unrestricted
assault rifle access to a young girl and

her beloved llama.

This is just some information about gun
rights that we're fighting for next

year. Would you like one? Take care, y
'all. God bless.

We think if you can legally own and
possess a firearm, you should be able to

carry it without a license.

I think we should have a constitutional
carry. I was surprised by how many

people supported CJ, but some of his
soldiers felt a little green.

What are you carrying?

I don't know the specific number. I know
it's an AR. I believe it's an AR -15.

It's an AR -15.

Do you like opening and carrying?

Yes. Why is that?

It's just like if we don't have any open
carry, if we don't get to have our

guns, then what happens is that there's
going to be just going to be chaos. Like

we're not going to be able to protect
ourselves.

How much practice do you have on that
thing?

I don't have practice right now. I'm
just open to carrying it.

I feel responsible for protecting others
because I'm the one that could provide

protection with the gun. That's a lot of
responsibility for you. You're 13.

Yeah.

Is that good for you guys, a 13 -year
-old carrying an AR -15?

He's probably a better shot than I am.
Well, that's not true. Not many people

are better shots than I am. They used to
draft 13 -year -olds to go play war

games. Yeah, in your time. I think
you're stuck in the past.

TJ had the support of Civil War
veterans, but the under -150 demographic

some doubts.

What did you think when you saw him
coming up with this? Well, he was

that it wasn't loaded, so that was the
thing. I think he said, is the gun

loaded? No, he said, what?

No, Mike, my gun's got ammo in it. We
carry it like the police carry it.

But you're not the police. Well,

that's just it. There's really no
distinction between the police and the

citizenship other than their general
training and permit to do so.

Training, though, is one thing. Why keep
it loaded right now?

Because there's somebody, Islamic
terrorist, whatnot, crazy guy.

Islamic terrorist?

What's your expectation?

Do you fear that's going to happen right
now?

Just because you're walking around with
a gun on your side, don't make me say

it. It just doesn't look right. And to
be fair, you're passing this out because

you want more rights, because you feel
you're not... I want a greater

restoration of rights. You don't have
enough. You're walking around a parade

route like John Wick, and you're like, I
want more.

But maybe Steel Team Kenny had a point.

Gonzalez was a soft target, and as we
all know, ISIS has long headed in for

Lou's canoe.

Meanwhile, in Dallas, I was about to
meet Rakim Balagoon and Gorilla

a group of African -American activists.

While they run a number of wellness
programs in their working class

they are most famous for staging
militant armed protests against police

brutality. Because black men are three
times more likely to be killed by

they rightly feel a disproportionate
threat from police violence.

which is why I was trying to download a
will. There's like three will apps. This

is incredible.

So we think Gorilla Mainframe is going
to come from down here, and there's a

police car there that just was lurking
and then did a U -turn, and it's sitting

right where I think they're going to pop
out.

I think this might be them.

While I followed a group of
predominantly white activists as they

in gun -loving Texas, my friend Kobe was
following a group of African -American

activists open -carrying for a different
cause.

You got a second now? Yeah, yeah.

Awesome. Those aren't loaded, right?

Huh? Those aren't loaded. No, they are
loaded. Oh, okay.

Yeah. They're loaded and rocking ready.

Great. Just tell me quickly, why do you
guys choose to protest in this manner?

So dressed like this, open -carrying,
why is this form of protest? Because

people... for the most part in this
country, are voiceless.

And unfortunately, it takes firearms to
be in a black man's hands to get the

masses' attention.

What we're hoping to accomplish is to
get the word out about the recent local

shootings.

They were raising awareness about Botham
Jean, an unarmed black man who was shot

and killed in his own home by an off
-duty police officer.

The officer claimed he thought he was a
burglar and shot him, even though,

again, he was sitting in his own
apartment.

But Rakim has other causes as well.

You know, I'm a vegan, so I eat nothing
but unprocessed food. Sorry, I'm just

looking at your arms in here and you say
you're a vegan.

Yes,

five years. If I lived in this area, I
would have to drive maybe six, seven

miles just to get some kale.

The fruit growth stores that are here
have very little fruits and vegetables,

and none of them are organic.

Their goals were noble.

But I was concerned the guns would
actually turn people away from their

But I was wrong.

We've been walking with them a little
bit. It seems like the people in the

community are pretty supportive of this.
We're getting Black Power signs and

shouts of support.

Black Power, brother, Black Power.

We love y 'all.

Did we just switch neighborhoods?

We now have two police cruisers behind
us. No, three. Sorry, we have three

police cruisers behind us.

One thing that makes me a little
nervous, right, is that obviously you're

to protest the unjust killing of black
people, so you know they sometimes

unjustly kill black people, right?

There is one right there.

Oh, that's cool. Yeah, yeah, okay.

I think he's admiring my comrades.

Yeah, that's a glower of admiration over
there. Is that what that is?

You look pretty content up there.

Soon we'd be at our destination.

an Oklahoma, Texas college football
game. They knew this would get

And I knew this would add drunk college
football fans to the mix. And shit was

getting tense.

We ain't making them feel comfortable
today, bro. I'm sorry.

Do you know what this is?

I have no idea. I don't know, but it
makes you uncomfortable, don't it? It's

like the America I grew up in for the
last 63 years, I promise you. Yeah, no,

definitely say that. We were much more
separated before, for sure. What are

protesting? Police.

What do you think about that? I agree
with them. In what way? Police feel too

many minorities.

Absolutely. Yeah.

People had wildly different reactions.

But before I could process them, we were
marching into a crowd of police

officers. You have to go back out. Is
this public property?

You have to go back out. What's your
name and badge number, sir? Sergeant?

Sergeant Ford. They're stopping us. No,
we don't have to go to the intersection.

We know our rights. All right, family,
we gonna carry on.

Bang, bang!

Bang, bang!

officers excuse me i'm so sorry i'm just
we're just doing a piece we're covering

that protest group that was just here i
was just curious what's your reaction to

that group that was protesting we are
here to simply keep everyone

safe got it got it all right thanks so
much officers have a good day oh by the

way who thinks gonna win today well
texas is actually up oh no sorry i

meant in the impending race war

different games different games you have
a good one you have a good one yeah

meanwhile back in gonzalez we were
seeing a different reaction how's your

interaction with police ben well i shook
their hands and they shook our hands

and other than that we didn't have any
interactions whatsoever there are

groups that are fighting out of
necessity you guys

I feel like you're fighting for just the
idea of more gun rights. What I'm

asking for is for our rights to be
respected.

I don't look at you and see you as
oppressed.

When you have to get permission to
exercise a right, that's oppression.

I'll say the thing I get tired of is the
idea of this is my right, I can do it,

gets in the way of this is my right,
should I do it?

So I definitely think that the
difference between these two groups is

know, people feeling like it's my right
so I can do it and people feeling like,

no, I don't have my rights respected so
I need to do something.

Gorilla Mainframe fascinated me,
especially their strategy.

My sense is these guys aren't really
that militant, that they're actually

doing a kind of political theater. And
as an undergraduate theater major, I

remember a term or two that I will
probably use incorrectly with them.

To learn more about how they selected
their tactics, I decided to join

Mainframe for a political theater
rehearsal.

Or at least that's what I'm telling
myself it was to make me comfortable

to a gun range.

Hello, hello.

So this is my first time. Just relax, be
comfortable.

You'll be good to go, man. Okay.

So what do I need to know?

Come on. Okay. So now do a slow, steady
squeeze and breathe out as you're coming

towards the end.

Goddamn.

It feels like I fucking summoned
lightning.

Yes.

Why do you feel like guns help get your
message across?

Guns, especially in this day and time,
it gets a lot of people's attention.

But the gun is the microphone.

Have you ever thought about using, like,
a microphone microphone?

When we have tried that, microphones,
bullhorns, our voices are still unheard.

To get his message heard, Rakim Balagoon
of Guerrilla Mainframe has also made

several controversial statements.

Most concerning, he posted that the
Dallas sniper who shot and killed five

police officers in 2016 would be seen as
a hero one day, and that the police

deserved the violence.

Do you stand by those statements?

I didn't say those officers as an
individual deserved what they got. I

police department deserved that.

Just to be clear, I'm pretty sure the
exact quote is they deserve what they

And I think it was LMAO afterwards.

Yeah, and I was laughing. Okay. And I'm
still laughing today. Just like they're

laughing at me, right?

Because as a black person, when you hear
it's Trayvon Martin, it's Michael

Brown, Tamir Rice.

Eventually, at some point, it becomes
frustrating.

How can you then turn around and
celebrate other people going through the

of losing people that they love?

Just like America celebrated Hiroshima
and Nagasaki after Pearl Harbor.

You know, it's just you guys get to
agree for a change.

Do you have any intention of doing
something like what he did? No.

Killing police officers is not going to
stop police.

Brutality, if anything, is going to
encourage it.

Couldn't you say the same thing about
your statements, though?

I want to be provocative enough to get
their attention.

Okay.

Whatever you think about Rakim's
provocation, the First Amendment gives

right to say it.

But apparently, no one told the FBI
that.

Because in 2017, the Bureau started a
shadowy new program allowing them to

certain African -American activists as
black identity extremists. And in

case... hold him in jail for his
Facebook posts.

The FBI alleged that I was illegally
possessing firearms.

I was taken into court immediately and
denied bond without having my own

attorney there.

I was detained for six months until the
judge looked at my case.

Did they give you a reason that they
denied your bail?

Yes. My social media posts was used as a
reason to deny bail.

If social media posts can be used
against you in court, I have to take

Pinterest immediately.

Rakam is believed to be the first person
to be arrested under the Black Identity

Extremist designation.

But he's not the only one to make
violent threats against police online.

You've said some pretty aggressive
things towards cops online.

Oh, I have, because I'm very critical of
bad cops.

But my comments are always geared
towards bad cops. These are your words

Facebook post.

Thugs and cowards. I swear if I ever saw
this happen, I'm getting arrested or

murdered too. But there will be bloody
cops.

Yeah, and I was talking about a very
specific incident where the police were

beating up an innocent unarmed man. But
you are going online, and you're ginning

up hate. I'm talking about violence
towards people who are being violent.

Some groups avoid police out of fear
they might get unjustly murdered for any

misperceived threat.

Yet CJ deliberately instigates armed
showdown, like a white privilege Icarus.

This is Olmos Park, guys.

In 2018, CJ and OCP had a standoff with
police in Olmos Park, Texas.

So you got an AR -15 because a man is
lawfully carrying it.

No, we're not getting on the ground.

We're not getting on the ground. I'm not
doing anything on the ground.

This event was remarkable because no one
got killed and because in response to

CJ's provocation, Olmos Park repealed
their gun ordinance.

It was a tense situation.

They asked you to get down. You didn't
get down.

What do you think would have happened if
you were black and that situation

arose? It happens to white people. It
happens to black people. When it happens

to a black person, they get a lot of
credit. They get a lot of attention for

But when it happens to a white guy, we
don't get the same kind of attention.

It's not a black or white thing. I don't
think black people are getting credit

for dying at the hands of police.

That's not exactly a credit they're
trying to put on their IMDB page. What

trying to say is, when it happens to a
black person, the media gets all up in

arms and tries to make a racial issue
out of it.

When it happens to a white person, it's,
eh, it's just a white person. But

essentially it worked for you guys.

It worked because we didn't back down. I
mean, that sounds a little bit like

privilege to me.

Oh, no, it's success.

That's what it is, it's success. Because
the people that were marching...

They didn't care what skin color that
was.

Sometimes success is ugly. In order to
achieve change, you have to sit in the

front of the bus.

Are you acquitting yourself to Rosa
Parks?

I'm talking about the very same thing.
She risked her life to sit in the front

of the bus. I risked my life to stand on
that street corner.

You're appropriating a black hero for
your... It doesn't matter if she's black

or not.

White savior complex.

No, it has nothing to do with white or
black. The people who take a stand are

the people who make a difference in
life.

And if... As a white man, if I can't say
that Rosa Parks is an inspiration to

me, then what good does her sacrifice
mean?

Wow.

DJ's activism is defined by bringing
guns into his community. But there are

confrontational tactics.

We don't always walk around with guns.
We're engaged with the youth a little

bit, do a couple exercises to promote
health and wellness.

We give the community massages. Yeah,
yeah. And hugs. It ain't all about the

hugs. And hugs. Why did you invite me on
gun day, not on massages?

We want to create a presence in our
community where we seem approachable and

where people would have.

No confusion of what we're here for.
Right, right, right. When we do come.

If you're worried about, in any context,
guns sending the message that you're

not really here to help, why wasn't that
true with yesterday's protest, too?

Because our approach with this
particular community is more intimate.

You know, nothing's more intimate than a
back massage.

You know, so... I can think of two or
three things that are more intimate than

back massage.

Turns out, as uncomfortable as I am with
any group injecting guns into a

situation, I'm just as uncomfortable
with groups getting different treatment

under the law.

Regardless, Kobe and I needed to escape
from these childish tools of violence.

So we headed to a hipster bar to throw
tiny axes.

What do you leave with after talking to
Kim and the folks in Gorilla Man frame?

I was surprised by how empowering it
felt to be provocative in that way as a

person of color because there is
something so unapologetic about their

that when you experience it, you
realize, oh, shit, I'm constantly

as a black person. I'm constantly trying
not to take up space.

And the thing there...

complaining about is such a real
problem, whereas the thing Open Carry

complaining about is, you know, more of
a privilege.

If you're bummed because you're getting
side glances because you ride around

town on a bicycle with an AR -15, and
you're like, I can't go into that stop

shop. It's like, your life is all right
at this point. Yeah.

They love guns down there.

I'll say this about it. It got us there.
They always get us with those guns.

They're shiny. They're loud. They make
big noises. I run towards it, which I

think is the opposite thing you're
supposed to do.

I've seen the heat up in the sky.

And I've watched it all and said
goodbye.

They call it trouble.

Trouble in my head.