All language subtitles for the_radical_story_of_patty_hearst_s01e06_the_verdict

Less than 30 minutes ago, we arrested
Patty Hearst.

56 days in the closet turned her into an
urban gorilla.

During the trial for the Hibernia bank
robbery, the one thing that we had to do

was prepare her for testimony.

She wanted to name the people who had
abused her.

I would not have put Patty on the stand.

Well, holy caroly, he's opened the door.
It's always damaging when you take the

Fifth Amendment.

And it killed us.

The granddaughter of William Randolph
Hearst was abducted by two men and a

in a bizarre kidnapping.

No ransom note, no phone calls, no word,
nothing.

The SLA is the people's army and we
fight in their interest.

The FBI said the girl in the wig with
the automatic rifle was Patricia Hearst.

Rich college girl turned armed terrorist
in a matter of weeks.

Southern California's largest manhunt
continues.

For someone my age, I've been through an
awful lot.

We don't know where she is.

Mom, Dad, I'm okay.

Whatever private thoughts the jurors may
have had as they went to court on this

last day of the trial, they were
required to keep to themselves till they

a verdict.

The jury deliberated about a day's
worth, and when the phone rang and it

Gene DeLoach, the judge's law clerk, we
knew we had a verdict, and we were

shocked.

So we went upstairs and still thought it
was a coin toss.

When the jurors began to deliberate, I
told Patricia Campbell Hurst that it was

my opinion, based upon all that had
transpired in the previous eight weeks,

she would be acquitted. When a juror
comes back, and they will not look at

defendant, but look at the floor
instead, you don't need to wait to hear

verdict read.

Just after the verdict was announced,
Patricia Hurst turned to her lawyer and

whispered, did I ever really have a
chance?

Everything went pretty much the way the
SLA said it would go.

I was arrested.

I was brought to trial, convicted.

Seems like everything the SLA told me
would happen has happened.

Patricia Hearst watched an old jungle
movie on her TV set near her cell in the

San Mateo County Jail today as her
lawyers announced they will appeal

yesterday's guilty verdict in her bank
robbery trial.

No one ever convicts a defendant that
they like. I think her story about the

kidnapping and what she went through
evoked sympathy from everybody.

I think they very much dislike some of
the things that they learned about her

later on, some of her conduct.

just decided that she'd turn bad. That's
the only way I can reason out a verdict

of guilty for the Hibernian Bank.

I must say, without equivocation, the
worst case I have ever taken on in my

was the United States against Patty
Hearst.

She was more unpopular than the Boston
Strangler.

I think the importance of the Hearst
verdict was... That people realize that

money can't buy you out of going to
jail.

You know, they don't have any more
rights than the average person. I'm glad

justice was done.

There was certainly a major school of
thought in the mid -70s that no Hearst,

one that wealthy, no one from such a
powerful family would ever be convicted

something so lowly as a bank robbery.

And the conviction surprised a lot of
people.

She may be found guilty now, but later
on it will be thrown out of court.

Why do you say so?

Money talks.

It was not exactly a note of sympathy
that went out to Miss Hearst from

and Emily Harris, her companions during
much of the escapade.

They said Miss Hearst chose during a
trial to go the route of power, as they

it, slandered her dead lover, wronged
her associates, and vilified the

organization that she voluntarily
joined.

The Harris's are awaiting trial on a
variety of felony counts, and in a

statement they said the guilty verdict
restored their respect in the jury

system. People wanted Patty to do jail
time, and the first time they seemed

happy was when the judge gave her a
seven -year sentence.

The judges in the federal court very,
very rarely release anyone on bail.

subsequent to a finding of guilty.

Judge Orrick, he allowed her to be
released on bail during appeal,

that bail being very unusual.

He said she'll be bailed on $1 million
bail, the highest bail I had ever seen.

This was just a statement concerning her
wealth and power.

Let's set the record straight, then. How
do you feel about your family?

Oh, I love them.

They've been so fantastic.

And this will be the first Christmas in,
oh,

well, since 74, no, 73,

that we've been together.

When Judge Orrick ordered that she would
be released on bail, he also ordered...

A very strange thing.

A condition of her bail would be that
she be protected at her family's own

from others who would want to harm her
by a cadre of

police officers who would be hired by
her and her father.

Never had I heard of that before.

That's a new one.

I spoke to the chief and asked him who
he would recommend in his department.

He told me that Bernie Shaw had been an
exemplary member of the department.

He was a family man.

He was married and had a lovely family,
and that's why I chose him, to guard her

24 -7.

Not surprised that Patricia Hearst ended
up in an affair with

Bernard Shaw.

From the moment that we kidnapped her,

She was in some type of a relationship
with somebody, originally with Willie,

one of her captors.

And then she was in a relationship with
Steven Soria.

And then as soon as she got bailed out,
she developed an affinity for one of her

bodyguards, a police officer.

Her future is still clouded, an appeal
pending on her San Francisco conviction,

another trial scheduled in Los Angeles
in March.

Indeed, when Patty was released on bail,
She still stood charged in Los Angeles

regarding her activities at Mel's
Sporting Goods store.

That charge remained over her head, if
you will, during the entire trial for

robbing the Hibernia bank.

She had a machine gun and she fired it
in the direction of a group of people.

Witnesses saw her. So that case is a
nightmare.

It couldn't be one.

Almost three years ago, members of the
Symbionese Liberation Army fled from the

robbery of a Los Angeles sporting goods
store. Their escape was covered by a

machine gun firing girl.

Today, Patricia Hearst pleaded no
contest to charges of robbery and

connection with that shooting.

The sentence could have been as much as
15 years to life.

The L .A. case was the worst case for
her.

There was tons of evidence against her
in L .A.

It was probably at least a year between
our case in L .A. and her case.

When we were arrested, we only remained
in the San Mateo County Jail for three

days and we were transported to L .A. to
go to trial in the Mel's case.

After deliberating for nine days, a Los
Angeles jury found William and Emily

Harris guilty today of kidnapping and
robbery and the holdup of a sporting

store. We were convicted to a six -year
term.

As soon as we were convicted, we could
tell that there was pressure from the

hearse. They removed the judge.

He had sat through the whole trial. He
was very familiar with the evidence.

He knew that not only was she probably
guilty of everything that we were found

guilty of, but that she would probably
eat all the ADWs, the assaults with a

deadly weapon, because she's the only
one who fired a weapon the whole time.

She got a five -year probation out of
that when we were doing six years in the

pen.

Privilege began to come through. Her
class privilege that she was rejecting

she was with us. But all of a sudden,
her class privilege was what was going

protect her.

As soon as we were convicted in Los
Angeles, They needed somebody to claim

responsibility for her kidnapping.

Well, six of the people that kidnapped
her were dead.

There were only two people left alive,
and that was Emily and myself.

They offered us an opportunity to plead
to the sheet, which would be to plead to

a life without the possibility of
parole, which we thought was hilarious,

know. When we refused the offer, within
a month, the offer came down to, what

would you take? How much time do you
really want?

We could surmise that there was probably
pressure from the hearse not to

prosecute as it would draw her into it
as a witness.

She had no way to withstand a cross
-examination by her comrades who were

her the whole time.

I had been with her for nearly two
years. I knew everything that she had

Eventually, we agreed to the 10 -year, 8
-month sentence, a sentence that

allowed us to count the time we'd
already done.

We'd already been in custody over three
years.

We actually benefited from the Hearst
efforts to help her

stay out of any further litigation.

Privilege does a lot, man.

Once we worked out a plea bargain for
the kidnapping case, we had one more

of which we could be prosecuted, and
that's the Carmichael bank robbery.

During her trial for robbing the
Hibernia Bank, Charles Bates, who was

in charge of the FBI at that time,
indicated that the FBI would be willing

recommend immunity from prosecution for
Patricia Hearst, not for the Hibernia

Bank robbery, but for other
circumstances, if she would make herself

for questioning by the FBI under use of
immunity.

Most important, the FBI now has Ms.
Hurst's own description of the SLA

of a bank near Sacramento last year in
which a woman bystander was killed.

Ms. Hurst named a half dozen members of
the robbery team, including sources say

her old SLA companions, William and
Emily Harris.

We had been accused in the newspaper of
involvement in the Carmichael Bank

robbery as early as September 21st,
1975.

Subsequently... Very soon, they charged
Steve Solia with the bank robbery

in Federal District Court in Sacramento.

There were witnesses to the robbery who
claimed that they saw him in the bank

and put him among the robbers. When she
ends up debriefing, she tells the FBI

the real story of what happened and
reveals to them that Stephen was not in

bank. The prosecutors, they wanted to
stick with their eyewitness

identification.

principally because they knew she was a
horrible fucking witness, even if she

was telling the truth.

Stephen was acquitted.

The federal government used that
essentially as a test run as to whether

they could prove the murder.

That trial was a debacle. It went
horribly.

And that gave the Sacramento DA either
the out or caused them to evaluate it

believe they couldn't prosecute it.

All the physical evidence was 100 %
consistent with everything that she told

them, but they weren't sure whether they
could rely on her.

Patty chose to disclose the truth about
the Carmichael bank robbery, but they

didn't want it. Our purpose was served
anyway, simply because our assignment

from day one was to somehow contain or
neutralize the murder charge

out of Carmichael.

Our only way to do that was to go the
immunity route.

So now Patricia Hearst has come full
circle from kidnapped victim to urban

guerrilla to state's witness.

Mr. Bailey and I were both involved at
that time with her appeal for the

Hibernia bank robbery.

First to the Ninth Circuit Court of
Appeals and then to the United States

Supreme Court.

After the Supreme Court refused to hear
her appeal.

Patty Hurst surrendered at the federal
prison at Pleasanton, California, to

finish her sentence.

After that time, I was advised by George
Martinez to turn over the document

which we had acquired to him as new
counsel.

Martinez got us fired after we brought
him into the case at her request.

I mean, we found him through a list of
divorce lawyers.

So her boyfriend, who had kids and a
wife, could get divorced and marry her.

Al Johnson, far more than F. Lee Bailey,
devoted his life to Patricia Hearst.

He's a Boston lawyer who spent years in
San Francisco away from his family.

And as soon as she hooks up with Bernie
Shaw, she cuts Al Johnson dead

and they never speak again.

I was upset by it, obviously.

I had worked as hard as I have ever
worked on any case in my life, and I

believed in her and in her defense.

She was on the hook for a very grisly
first -degree murder, and we

got her out of that.

Had that been understood at the time,
the Hearst case would have been labeled

a major victory.

And Randy and Catherine Hurst
understood, and they were very grateful

If Patty ever said thank you, I don't
recall it.

Patricia Hurst is asking for a new
trial, charging her trial attorney, F.

Bailey, with an ineffective defense.

Patricia Hurst went back to prison in
May, but attempts to free her before

eligible for parole are building up.

The latest effort centers on her
lawyer's conduct of her defense.

All counsel, including Mr. Bailey, at
all times acted very professionally

the trial.

At no time did I observe anything
whatsoever which would indicate any lack

effectiveness or lack of attention to
duty. She files a motion saying her

lawyers gave her ineffective assistance
of counsel.

That was rejected.

Look, they were in a position to have to
alter...

public opinion on her post -conviction.

Patty Hearst waged a press offensive to
change public opinion to get

Jimmy Carter to commute her sentence.

She doled out interviews to sympathetic
reporters who didn't know all the facts

of the case.

They focused on the victim part
exclusively.

Since she's been observed on television
and in magazines as a victim and not as

an urban guerrilla, the narrative has
been altered dramatically.

So it's not that hard to pull off.

When you have a media empire that's back
in your play, that's a big deal.

Her family recruits Democrats,
Republicans.

Ronald Reagan also endorses this effort.

You can't blame Patty Hearst for that.
You can't blame her family.

Any family would have tried to do it.
It's just that most families wouldn't

had the money, the connections, the
influence to do what her family could

Patty Hearst had her story and access to
the press, and

she used it like a master.

The committee conducts an extensive mail
campaign. Patty Hearst's family

organized this tremendous effort to
commute her sentence.

But they were helped by something that
came completely out of the blue.

Never shall forget what he's done for
me.

Jonestown was a cult led by a man named
Reverend Jim Jones, and he was a very

charismatic, manipulative person. He was
essentially a con artist.

He moved his people to a compound in
Guyana. Their passports were taken away.

A congressman came to check out what was
going on there because these were U .S.

citizens. As the congressman was
leaving, they went and shot Congressman

Ryan and a TV cameraman and a few other
people.

And Jones then told his people that this
was the end.

We didn't commit suicide. We committed
an act of revolutionary suicide,

protesting the conditions of an inhumane
world.

It was not really a suicide. It was a
mass murder, as far as I'm concerned.

when this hit the news and people saw
that over 900 people lost their lives

because they followed this charlatan
preacher, that, to some degree, changed

public opinion about why people do the
things they do when they're in these

cultic situations.

The whole country started talking about
the question of how can a charismatic

person persuade people to act so much
against their own self -interest,

in this case, kill themselves.

That question redounded very much to
Patty Hearst's benefit because that was

her argument, that the charismatic
leaders of the SLA persuaded her to

bank robber. And in that environment,
Jimmy Carter was weighing the decision

about whether to commute her sentence.

Well, this is quite a difference from
last time, and thank you all.

And I'm really happy to be going home.

There it is.

The commutation.

Thank you all so much.

Bye -bye.

Yeah, I am. Bye -bye. Oh, I won't count.

I look at her and just marvel to see the
sparkle in her eyes and realize that

she came through it with a sparkle still
there.

How does it change you?

So please kill me.

Although both of Ms. Hurst's parents
were there for today's homecoming, the

ordeal has put a severe strain on the
family.

Randolph Hurst and his wife have been
legally separated since last year.

During an interview with a small group
of reporters, Ms. Hurst said her

kidnapping and imprisonment had cost her
five years of her life, but said she

has also benefited from it. I think that
I've gotten a lot stronger, a lot more

self -confident.

I take a lot of things in stride that
make other people fall apart.

For someone my age, I've been through an
awful lot.

Patricia Hearst was never a pathetic,
crying, whiny, small

victim. She adapted rapidly in ways that
were surprising.

We thought that she was the exception to
any rule.

Did she brainwash us? Did she convince
us that she was something that she

wasn't?

I didn't wear a bulletproof vest, but I
dressed for the occasion.

I'm just really happy.

Patricia Hearst is off on a vacation,
she won't say where, to try to get away

from the last five years and from what
the name Patty Hearst has become.

Patricia Hearst just published her
autobiography titled Every Secret Thing,

in it, she made some surprising
admissions.

She now reveals in her book that she
also participated in two other bank

robberies. In one, the Crocker Bank in
suburban Sacramento, a woman was killed.

It was a casual way that they did it,
too, and talked about it. It was, oh,

well, she was a pig. After all, her
husband was a doctor.

So what?

Toughest part in Every Secret Thing was
when Hearst quoted

Emily Harris of saying she was a
bourgeois pig. Her life doesn't

matter. It was so cold. It didn't matter
what they did to anybody. They were

always right. Always.

Publishing that book was one of the
dumbest things I have ever seen in my

Because youth immunity does not cover
writing books to make money about how

committed a capital crime.

And being the getaway driver in a bank
where murder occurs makes the driver

liable for murder in the first degree.

Patty, you've never been tried for that.
No, no.

President Carter commutes her on the
bank robbery charge.

He doesn't commute her on any other
case.

She's still got this murder case hanging
over her head.

Trisha Hearst had written her book, and
so most of the details were out there to

kind of lead them where to find the
evidence.

But the years kept going by and by, and
still nothing had happened.

It took a long time before I felt like I
was the victim. You know, I have a life

now and children, and I just want to
move ahead.

She seemed to have gotten almost a
celebrity status over this.

Terrible thing.

14 years ago, Patty Hearst was the
victim of the most bizarre kidnapping

in American history. The film Patty
Hearst from Atlantic Entertainment will

released nationwide in September.

Take your clothes off, Patty.

Have you seen it? I have seen it. It's
really good.

It's Natasha Richardson.

She's Vanessa Redgrave's daughter, and
she's fabulous.

She went on with her life. It's almost
like it never happened.

She's reclaimed her status as a ruling
class matron.

Her life has not been destroyed by this
experience.

If anything, it's been enhanced.

She's been in John Waters' movies.

Hi, kids.

Remember, always look both ways before
crossing. Mother!

It's really impressive that she built a
good life for herself.

I think the general concept today in
America is that you were innocent. You

a bum rap. Most Americans, I think,
believe that. The body of information

was created to support her became the
narrative.

Well, I just think it's not true that I
could have left at any point. I couldn't

do anything at any point anymore.

Whenever she did interviews, she was
haughty, she was arrogant, she was

dismissive. Totally different person.

No other people were prosecuted for that
bank robbery except me. None of my

kidnappers were charged or prosecuted.

What about the other people in the bank
robbery?

No, the rest were dead, and the two that
were left alive were not charged.

Why weren't they charged, you know?

Their name wasn't Hurst? I don't know.

They had no evidence that we were
involved in that bank robbery at Ibernia

because we were not in the bank. They
charged Patricia with that because she

front and center and prominent in the
video.

She came from one of the most famous
journalistic families in the world. And

understood the power of controlling the
narrative.

She persuaded the public, by and large,
that this was a story about...

One young woman who was kidnapped and
forced to commit one bank robbery.

And that's what most people remember
about this case.

She eliminated Mel's Sporting Goods, the
bombing she participated in, the death

of Myrna Opsal, which she was morally
responsible for.

After so many years, it was always
Patricia Hearst that got the limelight

this fascination with this celebrity,
semi -celebrity.

I think everyone just kind of dropped
all hopes of ever holding the SLA

accountable for my mom's murder.

But then, there was a glimmer of hope.

In 1999, I was transferred into the
major crimes division in Los Angeles.

I think the first week or two that I was
there, I was handed a very thin file,

maybe a quarter of an inch thick.

I was asked to hold on to it. I was told
the FBI was looking for this particular

person. Kathy Soley had been a fugitive
since 1975, I believe.

This was 1999, so it was 24 years had
gone by.

She was charged essentially with
planting two bombs with intent to

at the IHOP in Hollywood and the other
at the Hollenbeck police

station.

The evidence that tied these bombs to
Kathy Solia and to the FLA in general

both overwhelming.

We knew that Kathy Solia was living at
288 Presida Avenue in San Francisco with

Bill and Emily Harris.

She had signed the lease to the
apartment.

Her fingerprints were all over the place
and particularly in the closet.

Every component of the bomb had a
matching component in that closet.

And most importantly, we had an
eyewitness.

The person that sold her the pipe
remembered her. I mean, you had a young,

-headed girl coming in to buy two pieces
of three -inch pipe with taps at the

ends of them. It caught his attention.

If she was ever caught, I'd be
responsible for the case.

Quite frankly, I didn't put a lot of
effort into it because I had a bunch of

other murder cases on my plate, and she
hadn't been found in 24 years.

It was as cold as a case can be.

At 8 .21 this morning, members of the
Minnesota Fugitive Task Force arrested

Sarah Jane Olson, whom we believe to be
longtime Symbionese Liberation Army

fugitive Kathleen Ann Salia.

In 1999, Sarah Jane Olson was arrested.

Sarah Jane Olsen is the name taken by
Kathleen Solia.

She was in Minneapolis, St. Paul, and
she was raising her kids, acting in a

community theater, evidently feeling
relatively secure that she'd be safe.

Police say a segment about her on the TV
program America's Most Wanted is the

breakthrough, generating tips about
where she lives. And tonight, after

double life for nearly 25 years, she was
quietly arrested in St. Paul.

She was not.

the same person by appearance that she
was back when she did these horrible

things.

Part of the problem of the case was we
were going to have a whole set of jurors

that didn't know who the SLA was. They
would have never heard of them, and so

that led us to looking at some of the
other crimes they did.

What did you find when you looked at the
Carmichael crime?

We were overwhelmed.

We just couldn't believe that nobody had
been prosecuted for the murder, murder

of Opsal.

John was outraged, so he made it his own
mission to do what he could to try to

get justice for his mom.

I'm very happy that my mother's murder
is getting the attention that it

deserves, and I trust that justice will
be served.

I knew that when she was arrested, all
this shit was going to hit the fan, and

that we would be exposed again to
prosecution in the Carmichael case.

I believe that there is now both direct
and circumstantial evidence sufficient

to file charges and begin criminal
proceedings for the murder of Myrna

January 16, 2002, I was arrested and
charged with the murder of Myrna Opsal.

And it was way worse for me at that time
because I had a family.

I was really angry.

I'd already really done the time.

I got out of prison the first time on
April 26, 1983.

And from that time on, I'd lived an
exemplary life.

I became a well -respected investigator
for lawyers.

Emily and I got divorced in maybe 86 or
87, and we did that

because she was in a long -term
relationship with a woman that she

So I got remarried.

I had two older sons.

I was not trying to hide out. I hadn't
changed my name.

It was a fucking nightmare that we had
to revisit.

So when the Sacramento DA did finally
file charges against all five of the SLA

members that were eligible for being
indicted, we were happy that finally

people were going to be held
accountable.

We soon found out that...

Patricia Hearst would probably end up
being a star witness in the case.

And I remember being asked, well, why
wasn't she indicted with the rest of

There were four people in the bank.
There were two getaway drivers, Bill

and Patricia Hearst.

Patty did not go into.

the Crocker Bank, the way she went into
the Hibernia Bank.

But she was a participant. She drove
what was known as the switch car.

There's no excuse for not prosecuting us
until 28 years later.

They had a treasure trove of evidence,
most of it provided by Patricia Hearst,

and the only explanation that I can
imagine, and I have no evidence of this

because there is none, there had to have
been pressure from the Hearsts to keep

that from being brought.

They didn't want her on the witness
stand in a trial that would be the

one publicity trial of the moment.

And she was going to have to tell this
story all over again, and she was going

to have to try to be honest.

See, that's the thing, you know, for all
her bullshit, she didn't testify.

What's that tell you? You know, she had
to say that in the book, but she could

have testified.

She got on Larry King and said we were
all a bunch of assholes, and she wants

do everything she can to prosecute us.

Well, girl, all she's got to do is
testify.

It was a combination of she didn't want
to do it and the DA didn't trust her as

a witness.

Charging the murder case was seven to
life.

And we were allowed to work out a plea.

And I'm sure that had a lot to do with
Patty Hearst not wanting to testify and

having the power to go with that.

We were told the SLA members were going
to plead guilty.

We at least knew that there was some
level of justice being done and that we

would get to kind of face the people
that brought us so much sorrow and

Whether her murder was a careless
accident or a planned assassination, the

result was the same.

She was dead and our family was
devastated.

Not only did the defendants have that
moment in the bank to change course and

possibly prevent her death, they had
plenty of opportunities after that to

from their mistakes.

and to refrain from further violence
without necessarily giving up their

imaginary cause.

I do believe Emily Harris admitted that
she was the one that pulled the trigger

and claimed it to be an accident.

And I'm happy to give her the benefit of
the doubt. It doesn't change the

outcome.

When she got out of the fog of being in
the SOA, it really weighed heavily on

her.

Our role was to make sure that people
were held accountable for what they did.

When they were prosecuted, the mission
was accomplished.

verse in Proverbs, and it says, there is
a way that seemeth right unto a man,

but in the end thereof are the ways of
death.

And when I read that verse, it just
instantly popped into my mind, the SLA

I never could figure out why in the
world would they do the things they did.

And it dawned on me, it's like they
actually believed what they were doing

somehow the right thing to do.

The whole SLA drama, I think, was a
Greek

tragedy in some ways, in that everybody
suffered.

Maybe Patty Hearst least of all.

On the day that Patty Hearst was
convicted, the message a lot of people

was, no one is above the law, no matter
how rich and powerful.

But as you see how the story evolved,

In subsequent years, it's a story about
how it's really good to be rich and

powerful.

Even though she shot up a street in Los
Angeles, even though she

participated in bombings, even though
she robbed banks, when

a woman was killed in one of them, she
wants a pardon.

In addition to the commutation, she
wants her record completely wiped clean.

And when Bill Clinton is in the waning
days of his presidency, she gets it.

I think the main reason this story has
endured is that it shows how difficult

is to know what's in someone else's
head.

How did this happen?

Who is this woman?

Which side is she on? Does she deserve
punishment or sympathy?

The woman was kidnapped.

She was brutally kidnapped.

That's got to be a terrifying
experience. Can you imagine?

We'll never know what went through her
mind.

I do the best job I can to explain it.

But there are many people who just will
never understand it or believe that they

can be so totally controlled by other
people that they don't even have to have

them standing right there next to them
any longer with a gun directly to their

head.

I feel that Patty was a kidnap victim,
and it was a horrendous

thing. But I also think she had a
choice.

It sounds so impossible now to believe
that someone of great

privilege

could join in this radical terrorist
-like group.

But I think she did it to survive.

At some point, I think, in that year, if
not sooner, Patty Hearst put on Tanya

and liked it better than anything she'd
had before.

I truly believe that she was, to some
extent, indoctrinated into those beliefs

and now regrets it.

denies it by saying she was truly a
victim the whole time. Because once you

on those beliefs, those radical beliefs,
you have to take a certain amount of

responsibility for them.

I often wonder, knowing what she knows,
how she deals with that dissonance.

Unless she just is so repressive that
she doesn't even consider it. I don't

know. It certainly is something that I
wouldn't want to relive ever.

You know, I just think I've really tried
to make a life in spite of it. If you

were to stack Patty and Tanya next to
each other, clearly the most interesting

person is Tanya.

I mean, I'm still impressed this very
day with her as a comrade. She endeared

herself to me over and over again. I
remember that person.

I remember that person more than I can
imagine the person that she's reverted

to.

She's a rich lady in the suburbs.

She raises dogs for dog shows.

I was talking to one of the press during
the Patty Hearst case, and he asked me

what I thought of Patty Hearst. And I
said, I think she's water.

She takes the shape of the glass she's
poured into.

She's privileged enough to goof
everybody.

You know?

the epitome of an entitled person, that
she could even become a terrorist and a

bank robber and still get on with her
life. It's quite amazing.

America's a funny place.