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(upbeat music)

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(dramatic music)

(orchestra tuning)

(people chattering)

(baton taps, orchestra stops tuning)

(upbeat music)

(crowd clamoring)

- It's easy to forget

London was only like 22 years away from the war.

So you've got this Britain

that we recognize through black and white photographs

and black and white news footage,

and then you've got this kind of new era

which is in multicolor.

And the Beatles were at the front of that, pioneering.

(upbeat music)

(people chattering)

- Hello, John. Are you looking forward to the tour?

- Yes. - Now, this religious

controversy, I know you don't want to say too much about it,

but does it worry you that it's going to boil up

when you get to the States? - Well, it worries me, yes.

But I hope everything will be alright in the end of the day.

- Do you think this is going to be a controversial tour

like the Philippines was?

- Oh, no, no. No, it's going to be fine.

- What makes you say that, Paul?

- Oh, it'll be fine. You watch.

(upbeat music)

- The Klan are going to demonstrate with different ways

to stop this performance.

- Outside the Coliseum,

this small band of small demonstrators

was the only sign of protest visible.

- You have to remember, the Beatles were

the biggest thing in the world.

- The Beatles were as big

as putting together the presidents or heads of state

of seven major countries in one room.

- How you feeling? Alright?

- Hey, you can say hello, can't you?

- Hello.

- Big, loud hello, fellas.

- Hello! - Hello!

- And, John, are you sorry about what you said?

- Yes, yes, I am.

- I think it's true.

I think the band were massively more popular,

I'm not going to use the two words, J.C.,

but they were more popular than the Church of England

and religion.

I don't think there's any doubt about that at all.

- This is where the trouble all began,

here in the tiny, top-floor studio of Station WAQY,

Wacky Radio to the 3 quarters of a million citizens

of Birmingham, Alabama.

Disc jockey and station manager Tommy Charles

read in Datebook magazine

John Lennon's reported remarks on Christianity,

remarks that had gone almost unnoticed in the five months

since they were first published in Britain.

- If you think back how big Jesus must have been

in the days he was big, maybe about 300 people

would have heard him, wouldn't they, you know?

So, many times, it was bigger.

And even if you thought of it in terms of today,

what he means to society in general terms,

certainly in Europe, the Beatles would have been bigger.

But, you know, America in those days was Jesus-obsessed,

not really Beatles-obsessed.

- Concerning the purpose of this rally,

I thank God Jesus Christ is popular with me,

because he saved me 31 years ago.

And everybody here tonight, he's popular with you,

say amen, huh?

- Amen. - Amen.

- They weren't qualified to even talk about

what the price of milk was,

let alone what the state of the world was.

- They were like sponges.

They absorbed so much feeling,

so much emotion in a way that, you know, they used to think

they were aging at twice the normal rate.

- I do know that Brian was really worried

about the whole thing before they left for the States.

But it was such an innocent thing for John to do,

because they were bigger.

You know, more people wanted the Beatles

than they wanted to go to church.

- Brian, are you worried in any way

what might happen to the Beatles when they arrive this time?

- Yes, I am concerned.

- On what account? - Security.

- What do you propose to try and do to protect them?

- There's very little that you can do,

because they've always enjoyed

in this country maximum security,

and the tours have always been exceptionally well arranged.

And one just hopes for the best.

- They're burning records in Memphis.

And then the guys went onstage

and thought they might get shot and all these things.

You sort of think there's something really weird

going on here that we don't quite get.

- Most of the criticism has come

from the Southern Bible Belt,

and we're wondering whether you're going to change

the itinerary of the Beatles to avoid areas

where radio stations are now burning their records

and their pictures.

- This is highly unlikely.

I've spoken to many of the promoters this morning,

and when I leave here, I have a meeting

with several of the promoters who are not anxious

that any of the concerts should be canceled at all.

Actually, if any of the promoters were so concerned,

and it was their wish that a concert should be canceled,

I wouldn't in fact stand in their way.

As a matter of fact, the Memphis concert,

which is nearest to the place where this broke out,

apparently sold more tickets yesterday

than they had done up until that day.

- Tony Barrow was the one that alerted Datebook

to the existence of these interviews.

He contacted Art Unger, the publisher and editor,

and said, "You'll love these interviews.

They're just up your street."

But Art Unger had the idea of sending them to, like,

you'd call them shock jocks today,

but he knew that it would wind some deejays up.

So he sent them to these deejays in Birmingham, Alabama,

and they appropriately got wound up.

And that's where it really started.

(women shrieking)

- They've banned you from stations. Have you seen it?

- I've seen a, I've seen a similar version

of what you're talking about in the paper.

Well, if it makes other people feel better,

it'll make me feel better.

But there weren't as many people upset

as I was led to believe, or not so seriously upset.

- Brian Epstein was going to cancel the tour,

but they decided to go ahead if John apologized,

and he did rather reluctantly,

and it was like a secondhand apology.

- Well, originally, I was, I was pointing out that fact

in reference to England,

that we meant more to kids than Jesus did

or religion at that time.

I wasn't knocking it or putting it down.

I was just saying it. It was a fact.

And it sort of, it is truth, but more for England than here.

You know, but I'm not saying that we're better or greater

or comparing us with Jesus Christ as a person

or God as a thing or whatever it is.

You know, I just said what I said,

and it was wrong or was taken wrong.

- And George said, "I don't care.

They'll only buy more records

to replace the ones they burnt, so..."

- What do you feel about this business

of the group speaking their mind and saying what they think?

Do you think it's possible to do that

when you're in their position?

- Absolutely, I've never suggested

that they should do otherwise.

- Did you suggest that John apologized?

- We talked about it, and this was our mutual feeling.

I've never directed that the boys should do anything,

either sort of song-wise, artistically wise,

or speech-wise.

They, we all make up our minds,

and I contribute, I suppose, a fifth.

- That also happened to be

at the end of a very extended world tour

where other horrible things had happened to the Beatles.

So, having death threats in Japan,

then being roughed up in the Philippines

for supposedly snubbing the first lady, Imelda Marcos,

by not turning up at a reception that she was holding.

This was just sort of the last straw,

and they were thinking that they might be assassinated.

I mean, this is how early this kind of thing

was cropping up in people's minds.

- John, what exactly happened at Manila Airport?

- We got kicked and and pushed around by some monkeys

and were very frightened.

- Well, how frightened were you, George?

- Um, terrified, I'd say.

Yeah, it was, You know, it was very bad.

There was about five sort of real big,

sort of funny-looking fellas

with guns and all the rest of the gear.

- Who did all the kicking.

- Yeah, and they just had arranged...

You know, it was so obvious they'd arranged

to give us the worst time possible,

you know, before we arrived at the airport.

So we just start hustling about and just...

You know, personally, I just kept dodging these people,

because they were the ones trying to cause the trouble.

- Yeah, just about the five of them,

'cause the others weren't bothering.

- Did you in fact have to carry your luggage

and make your way across the airport?

- Only our hand baggage, you know.

Our road managers take the big luggage.

But they turned the escalator off on them.

They had to carry them up the escalator.

That's how intelligent they are.

- How many people were involved in this demonstration?

- Well, I thought there was 30.

I've been telling everyone 30, and John says there was 5.

(laughing) - There was sort of like

a little army to beat us up.

And there was about another 10 at the back of the crowd

of ordinary people going, "Boo, boo."

And we looked around to see who was booing,

and just little kids sort of smiling, about 18

of all these sort of fellas in the back like Gestapo

going, "Boo, boo," saying it was a public demonstration.

- It was one of those places where you sort of knew

they were waiting for a fight,

you know, and they were pushing us.

And if you you'd done anything, they would have (sniffs)-

- Enough of that. - Yeah.

- And apart from the Philippines,

did you enjoy the trip?

- Yeah. - Yeah.

- It was a great tour except for that one morning, in fact.

Yeah, everything was great. - Japan's fantastic very nice.

Great people. - And Delhi was good.

- Yeah. Great people in Japan.

You know, just nearly everybody we met was-

- Because they know Manila in the war.

(women giggling)

- So, would you play the Philippines again?

- No.

- No, wouldn't even land there.

No plane's going to go through there with me on it.

Don't want to even fly over it.

- When they came back from Manila

and they stopped off in Delhi,

that's when they first started to talk about

possibly giving up being on the road.

And Brian was very distraught about that,

because he could obviously see he would not be as necessary

if all the commitments are in the studio.

Like, where would he fit in?

'Cause he really came alive booking tours

and doing all that stuff and accompanying the Beatles.

And he was a guy that loved showbiz. He loved theater.

He'd been to RADA.

So he liked that theatrical side of it.

- From their dressing room in the immediate security area,

the Beatles emerge to play their second show,

each step of the way closely watched

by Captain Barney Hicks' police,

82 men all on overtime at 30 shillings an hour.

- There was total craziness,

and there had been for years around the Beatles.

What is amazing is that they put up with it.

They simply did what was expected of them.

And you think of the temperament

and the ego mania amongst the smallest rock bands today,

what the Beatles would endure for the sort of common good,

and because they were told that's the way they ought to be,

including John, was extraordinary.

- As the Beatles' charter plane arrived,

it taxied away from the hundreds of fans

waiting at the terminal to a deserted part of the runway

used only by the National Guard.

A mere half dozen teenagers

evaded the stringent security arrangements.

(people chattering)

Concerned about their visit to the South,

the Beatles could at least take comfort

from the success of the tour so far.

With only half their concerts over,

they had already grossed over half a million dollars,

and their latest single "Yellow Submarine,"

had sold a million.

- Is this your first trip south?

- No, no. We've been to Texas before.

- Uh-huh. Where are you going when you leave here?

- Um, um, uh, Cincinnati. That's it, yeah.

- Cincinnati.

And then how long are you gonna be in the States?

- About two more weeks.

- Two more weeks, huh? - Yes.

- What did you have for lunch?

- Oh, I didn't, I didn't eat much.

I didn't eat much. Anyway, I must go.

It's getting boiling. Excuse me.

- Alright. Thank you very much.

- 1, 2, 3, 4.

(upbeat music)

- When we came off in the dressing room,

they were all sitting with long faces, and John was saying,

"We should never have done this. Never have done this."

- Yeah, well, they'd had two #1s in the meantime.

And to come back a little, tiny club like this?

But they'd promised they'd do another gig.

And, you know, good luck to them, they-

- And there was only one dressing room.

The dressing room was like a telephone box.

So we were in it, the Beatles were in it,

and somebody else was in it, and all that, so...

They weren't very pleased at all, you know?

And they all came on. John was laughing his head off.

The other piano onstage, was a great, big cover on.

They said, "What are you laughing at, John?"

He said "King Size Taylor's left his mark."

- The Beatles went on. The girls are screaming like hell.

And all the power went off except for one little bulb,

one little bulb on the stage. Do you remember?

- Yeah. - No P.A. Nothing at all.

And everyone's going, "What's going on?"

So, Paul being Paul, he jumps on the piano

and goes into this little song.

I think John was playing his acoustic,

so at least you could still hear a bit of acoustic guitar,

you know, and for years and years, we just thought Paul

had gone into one of his dad's old songs,

you know, from 1920s,

'cause that's what it sounded like to us.

And then when we got the "Sgt. Pepper" album,

you know...

* When I get older *

It was unbelievable.

We'd heard the song in 1963.

- It doesn't matter about people not liking our records

or not liking the way we look or what we say.

You know, they're entitled to not like us.

And we're entitled not to have anything to do with them

if we don't want to or not to regard them.

You know, we've all got our rights, you know, Harold.

(women screaming)

(gentle music)

- Towards the end, it was madness, wasn't it?

You know, they could be anywhere.

They were just in a room,

and that room could have been in Wales or Tokyo.

They didn't know. You know, it was just a hotel room.

- It's hard to imagine now, but the songs on "Revolver,"

which would be easily duplicated onstage now,

they couldn't see a way of doing it,

and they played very little from "Rubber Soul" onstage.

They didn't play anything from "Revolver"

even though it was their latest album

when they did their final tours.

- Apart from rock 'n' roll songs,

they developed more as this melodic Beatles,

as well, you know, and I think

you needed to hear the intricacies of the songs.

And as they was developing musically,

they couldn't hear anything.

- I was in New York doing some business for the Yardbirds

when the Beatles' major stadium tour

was being set up in New York.

And Brian was there, I wasn't dealing with Brian,

but I heard from the promoters what was going on.

And Brian and the group had wanted to keep it down

to 10,000 or 15,000 seaters because of the sound problem.

They wanted to be able to play and be heard

and not be completely overwhelmed by screaming.

But the police said they wouldn't have it.

They knew there were going to be 100,000 or 200,000 people

turning up, even if they were in a 10,000-seater theater.

Very, very dangerous to have 10,000 people inside

and 90,000 outside.

So it really wasn't a greedy promoter or greedy Beatles

or greedy Brian Epstein, it was the police,

and that's how they got the license.

- Well, they were imprisoned.

They were imprisoned by touring.

And it wasn't till they got home

they could get out of prison.

And they went 'round the world in an airplane,

and, you know, people screamed at them,

and they couldn't hear themselves.

And it was, you know,

"This isn't why we began doing this, fellas, you know?

We began doing this 'cause it was good fun to do and fun.

Not fun anymore."

- John talked about it to me in some detail

over dinner in 1980 in New York.

He told me famously that when they played "Twist and Shout,"

he had changed the words to "I'm Pissed with Gout,"

which he thought was absolutely hilarious,

"A," because it was quite a funny line,

but, "B," because absolutely nobody heard it.

- The front rows of the audience

would be little children in wheelchairs.

John in particular was completely freaked out.

He had a terrible, terrible phobia

about physical disability.

But then these poor children

would be wheeled into their dressing room after the show

as if they were some kind of shrine,

and they could heal people.

And even worse than that,

some people would grab a wheelchair,

who weren't the carers, and push these children

into the dressing room.

It was just a horrendous, hideous scene,

and they put up with it.

That's the amazing thing. They were compliant.

- George talked a lot about the fact

that they were not progressing musically,

because they'd always progressed

by playing to audiences they could see

and getting that kind of intimate feedback.

And now they couldn't see their audiences.

I mean, it's very sad, Candlestick Park,

they're in a cage, literally in a cage on a stage.

You know, how far from The Cavern could you go?

- We used to work a machines to set volume, tone, bass.

Yeah, three knobs.

We didn't have all those (growls) faders

and computer things diddling away, no flashing lights.

Yeah.

The Beatles' contract only said, you know,

the promoter shall supply two, maybe three microphones

and an adequate lighting system.

- I mean, songs like "Eleanor Rigby,"

even if they could have done them onstage,

you know, they're not the sort of songs

that that audience would respond to,

I mean, "A," because it wasn't a song

you could jump around to or dance to and, "B,"

reviewers were saying "It's a bit of a gloomy subject,

you know, churches and lonely women and death

and all this sort of thing.

It didn't sound very Beatle-like."

- The Beatles for a long time have been able to,

because of their tremendous popularity throughout the world,

especially with the younger set,

have been able to say whatever they wanted to

without any regard for judgment

or maturity or the wisdom of it.

- Wasn't he just being honest?

- His answers are so flippant

and his attitude is so bizarre many instance.

You never know whether he's honest or not.

- What difference has all this row made to this tour,

do you think, any at all?

Paul.

- I don't think it's made much, it's made it more hectic.

It's made all the press conferences mean a bit more.

People said to us, you know, last time we came,

all our answers were a bit flippant,

and they said, "Why isn't it this time?"

The thing is, the questions are a bit

more serious this time.

It hasn't affected any of the bookings.

The bookings have been,

I mean the people coming to the concerts have been the same,

except for the first show in Memphis,

which was a bit down, you know, but so what?

- It was a very interesting change in the music industry

in England in 1966, '67.

It was the beginning of the use of the word "rock,"

which had never been heard before.

In 1967, the biggest event of the year

was the Monterey Pop Festival.

Pop was a trendy word.

And who was at the pop festival?

All the people we would now call rock stars.

But bit by bit, during that year,

the press began more and more to use the word rock,

and they applied that to groups who were not puppets,

who were not written for by Tin Pan Alley writers

and groups who definitely played their own music

and didn't have session musicians.

And most of the groups that were like that

wanted to establish their anti-establishment credentials

by growing their hair long and looking rough.

And The Stones was the archetype first one,

and The Who then adapted themselves from pop

and moved into rock.

- Are you ever going to play Beatles records again?

- I was asked this by the Capitol Record people

who released their records in this country.

Brian Epstein wanted to know

when we were going to take the ban off,

because it seemed that everybody was waiting for us

to make the move, and they want to know what it would take.

And I say, well, I don't have a price.

It's not something that I'm waiting for the Beatles to do.

I just don't know. I want to...

I want them to make me change my mind about them.

I want to, I want to see a, well, I don't know.

I want to see them grow up a little bit, I guess.

- The disc jockey, Tommy Charles,

who started this row off,

has said that he won't play your records

until you've grown up a little.

How do you feel about that?

- Well, I don't mind if he never plays them again.

- Now, see, this is the thing.

You know, everyone seems to think when they hear us say

things like this that we're so childish.

I mean, you can't say things like that

unless you're a surly, little child.

- Do you feel that Americans are out to get you,

that this is all developing into something of a witch hunt?

Do you mind being asked questions,

for example, in America about Vietnam?

Does this seem useful? - Well, I don't know.

You know, if you can say that war's no good

and a few people believe you,

then it may be good, I don't know.

You can't say too much, though. That's the trouble.

- Seems a bit silly to be in America

and for none of them to mention Vietnam

as if nothing was happening. - But why should they

ask you about it, you're successful entertainers.

- That is the thing, yeah. - Because Americans always ask

showbiz people what they think about things.

So, the British, you know, showbiz. You know how it is.

But, I mean, you've just got to.

You can't just keep quiet about anything

that's going on in the world unless you're a monk.

Sorry, monks. I didn't mean it. I meant actually-

- They were out there leading what was already going on,

the revolution into the teenager

as a fully fledged human being.

- Swinging London was an immense movement.

There was the counterculture in it

in which everyone was doing the long hair

and beards and mustaches and all the rest of it

and going the UFO Club and places like that,

all the psychedelic stuff and the Pink Floyd and everyone.

There was all the miniskirts, the new fashions,

the boutiques, and everything like that,

and it was change all the time.

- I was the house model for Foale and Tuffin,

but we also had a shop,

and sometimes when I wasn't actually showing clothes,

I'd go and work in the shop.

And the boys from the shops in Carnaby Street come,

and we'd check out and share records.

And it was all about music and how we looked.

- It started when Paul had his motorbike accident

and broke his front tooth and split his lip.

The day before, he'd made

the "Rain" and "Paperback Writer" videos.

And he started growing a mustache

just to hide the embarrassment of going,

"Oh, I got a broken tooth."

Didn't think to go to a dentist and get the tooth fixed.

He just used to stick chewing gum in it for a spell and...

But then he grew a mustache to cover his, his war wound.

And the others thought, "Hey, that's cool."

And they all grew mustaches.

- Suddenly, you know, the mustaches and stuff like that

and the drugs and looking at the world in a different way.

Whatever you do in your life as a musician

somehow does get on the tape and in a song somewhere.

There's always something to do with your experience.

- We were smoking pot at that time,

and it does change your perception,

and I think it sort of breaks down a lot of walls.

It was very much more against the establishment

and getting in touch with one's creativity.

- I think they were trying to constantly sort of push back

this image of the cuddly, four mop-tops.

And I think that was one of the reasons behind it.

You know, just look different, dress different,

look like adults.

- Are the Beatles breaking up as a group?

- Absolutely not.

- Is there any truth in the story that was published

that they may be breaking up in the near future?

- None whatsoever.

- Can you tell me why they have no tours arranged

for Christmas or for America next year?

- They've been involved in several different commitments.

John Lennon's been making film,

Paul's been writing some music

for a new Hayley Mills picture.

They should all be in this country by the end of November.

They'll be making some more records.

They're then working on plans for the next film.

- Is there going to be any change in the sort of work

that they do, will there be less tours next year?

- Possibly.

As I've said before, there's no dynamic or important change,

but the Beatles have always progressed,

and to progress you have to change.

- They had great antennae, the Beatles.

They could pick up on things very quickly

and think, "That's the way to go."

And, you know, that was part of their

upbringing and everything.

And they were, they were in a way,

"Penny Lane," and "Strawberry Fields,"

they weren't being American.

They weren't being pseudo-Americans anymore.

They didn't have American accents,

which, early on, you know, Paul's dad said,

"Why's it always got to be 'Yeah, yeah, yeah'?

You know, why not 'Yes, yes, yes'?"

And so they were, they were taking,

they were using their own culture,

which is really interesting.

And "Penny Lane's" a fantastic...

Well, they're both fantastic songs.

In fact, I think the great tragedy of "Sgt. Pepper"

was that those two sons weren't on it,

'cause that would have been a fantastic help.

And I've often thought they should have,

you know, put them on later on

and said, "Well, actually, these are two we did earlier.

You know, here we are, and they're the best."

- "Penny Lane" and "Strawberry Fields Forever,"

one very, very specific, Paul McCartney's

very clear imagery of the 1950s

in a part of Liverpool they all knew very well,

one much more surreal by John, surrealistic, at least.

But still, you get a feeling that this is a real place,

and it's kind of John's surreal vision

of a place he knew as a child.

- When they gave up touring forever,

they were totally in charge of themselves.

They did their own thing with "Sgt. Pepper,"

and they started ignoring Brian Epstein,

who had no more control over them,

and they started bossing around George Martin.

George would just do the technical stuff.

He'd give his input, but they would say,

"We'll have one more take."

In the early days, it was George Martin that said that.

- I would say that once touring finished,

Brian felt left out.

Now, when they were touring, he wasn't really doing much.

He was just with them and traveling 'round,

because things are done by the local promoter,

by the local tour manager.

But at least Brian was with them. He traveled with them.

He felt a part of what they were doing.

Once touring had stopped, he didn't ever feel a part

of what they were doing in the studio.

He never had. He'd never helped create songs.

He'd never been in the studio. He wasn't a George Martin.

And so he did suddenly feel left out with not much to do.

And it definitely wore on him. He started taking more drugs.

He started spending more time gambling.

And definitely, he felt that he,

his relationships were being severed somewhat.

- Brian's role, like their roles, was just changing.

But I think he would have always been

the real fifth Beatle, if you like.

He did take them from The Cavern to the world stage.

- In early 1967, 'cause they did this...

They did some music that was used

at this all-night rave at the Roundhouse.

And, I mean, I think, far as I know,

only Mark Lewisohn's ever heard it outside the Beatles.

But apparently, it's them just sort of whacking, you know,

any kind of percussive tin, tray, table,

whatever, around the studio and doing it for 7 minutes.

And I think there was that idea that almost anything

they did, and the less constrained, the better,

and it would all be sort of artistic gold dust.

But it wasn't always, you know?

- There was this problem the Beatles felt,

"Where do we go next?"

They had been the ultimate touring group.

They're the ultimate pop group.

They'd written the biggest songs, they'd done #1 to 5

consecutively in the American charts.

Where do you go next?

And the only way you really go next is to make great art.

"We've got to go somewhere better.

We've got to get to a higher plane.

If we can't become rock musicians,

we could kind of put pop on a level with great art,

with great music and great painting."

So I think that's what they were thinking.

"There's no point doing anything else.

There's no point putting out

another 'Revolver' full of pop songs.

We got to do something, which is absolutely stunning,"

and they certainly did.

- I listened to "Strawberry Fields,"

and I was absolutely amazed,

'cause one of the things I said to

my publisher is that the Beatles are still progressing.

And I thought this was incredible.

This was such a huge jump from "Love Me Do" or whatever.

- Nobody seems to be able to clearly say that "Penny Lane"

was written to top "Strawberry Fields."

But it seems like, as John had taken a leap

and done a specific Liverpool song that Paul...

'Cause there was a beautiful competitive spirit

between John and Paul

that each pushed the other higher and higher,

because, in a very friendly way, they thought,

"Right, you know, I'm getting the A-side

on the next single,"

and, "Oh, he's done that? I'm going to do that."

It was fantastic, I mean, without any kind of venom,

they both tried to top each other.

- That was the plan, to start off

and to write a whole album about Liverpool.

- It was kicked around, you know, doing something,

maybe an album connected to Liverpool.

And of course they had "Penny Lane" in the can

and "Strawberry Fields" and "A Day in the Life."

And then of course, George Martin said,

"You've been too quiet for too long," you know?

So they gave him that.

But they insisted that it was a double A-side.

- As a double A-side, it split the sales,

so they only got to #2.

Meanwhile in Liverpool, there was a group called

the Hillsiders, and the manager,

Spencer Lloyd Mason, noticed that one of the members

had found this fantastic country record

that they wanted to record.

So they took it to their A&R man at Decca, Noel Walker,

who also came from Merseyside, and said,

"We want to do this, and can we do it with an orchestra?"

It was a number called "Release Me."

And instead of recording it with The Hillsiders,

he passed it on to the people who thought it'd be

an ideal record for Engelbert Humperdinck.

And that went to #1.

And it kept the Beatles off the #1 spot

for the first time in several records.

It's all the fault of a Liverpool group.

- The Liverpool theme album, in a way,

you have enough in "Strawberry Fields" and "Penny Lane"

for more than an album, you know?

They did it in a single.

They did it in a magnificent, double A-side single.

- Hey, can I have a word? - Hey.

- Are the Beatles going to go their own ways in 1967?

- It could be, you know, on our own or together.

We're always involved with each other, whatever we're doing.

- Could you ever see a time when, in fact,

you weren't working together?

- I could see us working not together for a period,

but we'd always get together for one reason or another.

I mean, if you need other people for ideas, as well.

But, you know, we all get along fine.

- Will you be doing films on your own next year?

- No, I don't want to make a career of it.

I did it just 'cause I felt like doing it.

And Dick Lester asked me, and I said yes,

and I wouldn't have done it if the others hadn't liked it,

you know.

But they said fine 'cause we were on holiday anyway.

- Do the others have film ambitions on their own?

- No, nobody's particularly interested in it.

And I'm not all that mad on it.

- What do you really want to do? I mean, just write songs?

- I don't know. I just want to do a few things, you know.

- You haven't really decided exactly what?

- No, I'll try a few things, you know,

but I just found out a bit more about films, doing that.

- What's, the songwriting team thing

will keep going on, whatever happens, would it?

- Yeah, we'll probably carry on writing music forever,

you know, whatever else we're doing,

'cause you just can't stop.

You know, you find yourself doing it

whether you want to or not.

- But you think the tours, like the American tours

and the English one, you know, the stands in England-

- You know, there must be a point

where they don't work anymore,

because they're not to do with what we're doing

record-wise or film-wise.

- They knew they were taking big risks in '66 and '67.

They didn't know that the people would follow them,

would go along with them.

And they kind of calculated, like,

"We might lose a huge chunk of our market.

You know, we're being too daring."

(upbeat music)

(people chattering)

(upbeat music continues)

- Then they decided that it should be

what really came to be called a concept album,

because Frank Zappa had made one called "Freak Out!"

and McCartney was very keen that it should be like that.

But then, as Ringo said later,

they did a couple of tracks, and then they thought,

"Oh, let's forget the concept album. Let's do more tracks."

But of course, it was knit together in a strange way.

It was all the Beatles being sort of very adventurous

but very sentimental at the same time.

All these different strands are in this album.

And John actually, funnily enough,

is the one who ties it together

with not only his wonderful,

his masterpiece "A Day in the Life,"

but he also provides little sound bits, as well,

that seem to be part of "A Day in the Life"

and part of Paul's "Lovely Rita."

So it does seem like it's a whole concept,

even though they didn't think

they were making a concept album.

- Paul? Good evening. - Hello.

- How are you?

- Can I just have a brief word with you?

- Yeah. - If you never toured again,

would it worry you?

- Uh, I don't know. No, I don't think so.

- Wouldn't worry you? - Because the only thing

about that is that performance for us...

See, it's gone downhill, performance,

'cause we can't develop when no one can hear us,

you know what I mean, so for us,

to perform is, it's difficult.

Gets difficult each time, more difficult.

- You mean they don't listen to you,

and, therefore, you don't want to do that?

- Oh, yeah, we want to do it.

But if we're not listened to, and we can't even

hear ourselves then we can't improve in that.

We can't get any better.

So we're trying to get better with things like recording.

- It took months and months and took a huge amount of money.

And again, it was part of, it wasn't only "Sgt. Pepper,"

but, you know, other great albums of that time

reversed the market, which had always said

that you make, the single is what mattered.

And then the album kind of cashes in on the single.

So it has the single and a few other things on it,

usually with the name of the single,

like "Please Please Me."

But then the album started to be,

you know, the absolute focus of what bands did

and what pop acts did.

They made albums, and then singles came off the album.

- How are you? - Merry Christmas.

- How are you? - Fine, fine.

- Can I ask you a few questions?

- Yes, yes.

- Then I'll turn you around this way.

- Which way? - This way.

You're looking very smart anyway.

- Yes, well, I had a bath. - What's all this about

that The Beatles are going to do less together

in the new year?

- Um, yeah, we won't be doing...

The thing is, you see, to do things together,

the four of us,

it's going to be the old things all over again, you know.

- You don't want to do that? - No, we don't want to do,

you know, what we've done already.

So the thing is, because of the film, you know,

we can't get a decent script, or we're still trying for one.

If we don't do that, somebody will do something else

different, you know, for next year.

- On your own. - Yes, but, I mean,

it's not like breaking up.

We'll still be coming back together at the end of it.

- Thank you very much, Ringo. - That's alright. Thank you.

- Are you going to work now?

- Well, I'll see what they're up to.

I think it may be tea time, with any luck.

Bye. - Paul had started working

on the idea of the phantom band.

"Let's invent a band,

and we can be the band and not be the Beatles."

- How are you?

Can I stop you and have a brief word with you?

I just want to ask you, do you think that in the new year,

that you're going to be going your own ways

instead of being in a group? - No. No.

- No? - No. Definitely not.

- What about another word?

- There aren't any more words.

- They were sort of tired of being The Beatles.

Oh, they weren't tired of existing as the Beatles.

The name The Beatles had started

to sort of oppress them a bit.

And they had an idea of, you know,

making a kind of alter ego,

which would be called Sgt. Pepper.

And it was in line with a big fashion for military tunics

and all, you know, that was in the mid-'60s.

But if you look, there's a picture of Paul's father,

Jim McCartney, who had a little dance band

in the 1920s and '30s in Liverpool.

He played the piano by ear, the Jim Mac Jazz Band.

There was a picture of them in the late '20s,

and they're standing around a bass drum

and looking just like the Sgt. Pepper concept.

No marijuana.

- They became the forerunners

of what has almost become a rock 'n' roll joke.

How long can you spend in the studio on one project,

and how much is it going to cost you?

The Beatles were in studio making "Sgt. Pepper,"

which everyone will say,

"Wow, that must have been exciting."

It was the most boring time you've ever had in your life.

We were used to recording albums in two, three days,

maybe a week.

"Revolver" took a few weeks.

But "Sgt. Pepper" just dragged on and,

because they hadn't written together.

The only one who had prepared

to go into the studio, really, was Paul.

- When they went into the studio, no women were allowed

in.

No wives, nothing.

No, they, and even touring.

It was always, you know, "The boys were going off."

And I think it was only Chris O'Dell

that had the cheek to say, "Can I go to a session?"

'Cause none of us would have dreamt of thinking

we could go and watch them record.

- Everybody asks why, as things go along,

groups are allowed more time to record.

Firstly, it's not the record company's money.

It's an advance of the group's royalties,

so the record company really doesn't care.

At the beginning, the record company worries.

"We give them all the studio time.

If they don't get a hit, we're going to be paying for it."

Once the group have had some hits, you can give them

all the time they want, 'cause they're paying for it.

it's going to come out of their royalties.

This isn't well explained to the groups, so the groups think

they're using the record company's money.

And by this time, also, they have enough money left over

that they can buy some drugs and smoke

and do things in the studio

which are not conducive to working fast.

And recordings took longer and longer.

- Paul was mainly in charge.

Obviously, George and John were in charge of

when it was their tune that they composed,

but it was mainly Paul was the bossy Betty.

And he would say, "Just let's."

And they would do, it seemed to me,

dozens and dozens of takes of the same thing.

And I would think, "Well, it was brilliant the first time.

I wish they'd pack up. I wish we could go home.

I'm so exhausted."

- Even, you know, the trained engineers were amazed

with what the Beatles were asking them to do.

You know, nobody had done that, really.

So, in that way,

you know, Abbey Road was a blessing for them, you know?

- They were just full of enthusiasm and full of ideas.

And often, these are the best periods of anyone's life,

in your 20s, when...

And also, they could do what they wanted now.

They had the muscle to go to Abbey Road

and say, "We want to do things," which is wonderful, really,

'cause when they first went there,

they were sent in the side entrance, not in the front door.

And, "Whatever you want to do, Paul, we're with you."

- The thing the Beatles did is they set up lots of things

which we take for granted now,

like spending three months in the studio.

We think nothing of U2 taking a year off

or two years off to make an album.

The Beatles were the first people to do it.

The Beatles were the first people

to do ambitious albums like this

that tried to do far more than pop albums,

that weren't just kind of soundtracks

for dancing or playing in your car.

- I think personally that John was a genius.

I don't think there's any question about that.

And how many geniuses would you get in a group of four?

But without Paul, I don't think

John would have done what he did with his life.

As I said, I call them the Dream Team.

Paul had lost his mother when he was 14,

spent a lot of time with us in our house.

My mother, ironically, used to say, "That poor boy,

he lost his mother, you know."

(gentle music)

And then, of course, when our mother died,

that was a bond, a real, real bond

instantly between them.

And I think that relationship was the basis of the Beatles.

- John had this reputation.

He was the one that people are drawn to,

because he had this acerbic wit,

and, you know, he was a bit of a rebellious type person

who didn't seem to care about things.

Paul was very, very, very polite, you know?

And, so, people are always drawn to the rebel,

like I was initially when I first met him.

That's what drew me to him.

- Paul was also exploring the avant garde,

That was very important. He was, you know,

no idea was kind of too wacky for Paul to explore.

And he was reading a lot, going to art exhibitions,

listening to avant garde composers,

listening to jazz, and really developing in that way

and in a very significant way.

John, John did a lot of reading

and a lot of sort of songwriting,

but most of it at home, 'cause he had family commitments.

And Paul was ahead of him in that sort of,

"Let's explore London. Let's explore the avant garde.

Let's get into the underground movement."

John was, He kind of liked that,

but he didn't really have, he wasn't bold enough

at that stage to pursue it himself.

But in November, he meets Yoko Ono

at a pre-Indica Gallery opening of Yoko's work.

And, well, we all know what that led to.

- One of the great myths

which still upsets Paul McCartney to this day,

because it still sort of tends to cling on,

is that John was the great experimenter,

the avant garde one, Paul was the cuddly, safe,

middle of the road, smiley one.

It's just not true.

As Tony Bramwell said, you know,

John was a lazy bastard who stayed at home in suburbia.

Paul lived in the middle of London.

Paul always had this wanting to improve himself.

He bought books on modern art

when he was a schoolboy of 12 or 13,

and he was very much into all the avant garde in London

and, I mean, in really sort of difficult,

very, very contemporary music, nothing to do with pop music,

people like John Cage, Luciano Berio, people like that.

He knew all about that. Tape loops, all of that.

Paul was the leader.

There was a bookshop and a gallery called Indica,

and Paul had a standing order in that shop

for anything new that came in.

And then he would tell John about it.

So Paul told John all about, you know, "Relax,

turn off your mind, and float downstream."

John read the book,

and then John wrote "Tomorrow Never Knows,"

and John was the one who was the avant garde one.

- They were actually more involved in modern art

and modern classical music

and modern designers than they let on.

Don't forget, they'd gone to grammar schools.

Dun, dun, dun, dun, and they'd gone to,

in John's case, to art school.

They were, as opposed to some of the rock 'n' roll stars...

Must choose my names carefully,

who'd left school at 15 and could hardly read and write.

The Beatles were,

apart from Ringo, who never went to school,

The Beatles were grammar school boys

who'd read Shakespeare at school,

had read novels and read poetry.

- John and George were living out in the country,

and Paul was living in the middle of London.

They weren't spending all that time together anymore.

You know, up until '66,

they were completely in each other's pocket.

They were this four-headed hydra monster, you know?

None was seen without the other.

- Paul was also the more musical one by a long way

and taught John a lot.

So it was more, It was much more nuanced than that.

So the idea that Paul was sort of the straight guy

and the P.R. for the thing,

well, that's partly true. He was.

But he was also, you know, extremely gifted.

- There's been lots of rumblings

of a different type of music

coming from way back, coming from "Revolver."

- Course there was an expectation

for "Rubber Soul" and for "Revolver,"

but I can't remember as much anticipation

as there was for "Sgt. Pepper", that was partly because

of the amount of time they were spending in the studio,

and this was constantly brought up in news reports,

you know, how much money would have been spent

and how long they were taking.

So you thought, here are these four genius guys

with George Martin, and they spent this much time?

Must be, it's going to be, like, incredible,

because it just can't be anything less than incredible.

(inquisitive music)

- We must go back to the time it was released.

People don't realize the difficulties.

I mean, it was done on a four-track machine.

Now, George Martin said

very difficult working on a four-track.

Nowadays, you see what they can do in the studios

and all the rest of it.

And yet this album,

done on a four-track, is still sort of magical.

- I remember them deciding to put the words on the cover,

because, as you know,

all those albums that had come out before then,

we argued about the wording.

We didn't often know,

'cause one of the joys with the Beatles,

they still sang in a Liverpool accent.

- Great story for me was

when I was at Stafford Street,

George came in one day, and he said,

"I've got these lyrics, and could you type them out?

'Cause they're difficult to read."

So he said, "I'll sit next to you,

and I'll read them out to you,

and then you can type."

So, I did.

And every time he'd finished with the lyrics,

he'd hand them to me,

and I throw them in the bin.

For every single track of "Sgt. Pepper,"

went in the bin.

If only I'd known.

- EMI were very, very shocked at how much they had to spend

on the, on the record cover

and then also wanting the lyrics in full.

And of course, the Beatles were

making a rod for their own backs,

because once people could read the lyrics,

then there was all hell,

you know, interpreting the lyrics

and, you know, imputing meaning

that was probably, most of the time, was never there.

- They had had a design done by a group called The Fool,

and it was a psychedelic design.

And Robert Fraser, who was brought in to advise them,

he was a gallery owner, and he said, "That'll be no good,

'cause that'll date very quickly."

So they decided to go ahead with the concept,

which Paul says,

"We'll write a list of all our heroes,

and this will be the cover.

All the heroes and the people we admire

are going to be on this album."

Now, Brian Epstein was in New York at the time,

and he was horrified when he heard it.

He thought, "All these people,

it's the Beatles who matter," you know?

So he decided to fly back to London,

but he had the vision that he'd die in a plane crash.

So he left a message to Nat Weiss, his lawyer there,

"Brown paper covers for the 'Sgt. Pepper' album."

- People expected them to be absolutely

in the vanguard of everything.

People thought, "No, the Beatles do this first,

and then everyone else follows."

And of course, there was the military sort of tunic era

which "Sgt. Pepper" completely sort of picked up on.

Then it was the hippie era.

- Of course, you'll understand, John Lennon, typical,

he wanted Jesus Christ, Hitler.

Hitler is actually on the tableau,

but it's hidden behind something.

And also, when Sir Joseph Lockwood from EMI

walked in and saw the cutout of Gandhi,

he was aghast, "We can't do that.

We have big sales in India," so that was taken out.

And Peter Blake managed to get nine waxworks

from Madame Tussauds for the Beatles

and then other people like Sonny Liston and Diana Dors,

so they're there.

- And I said to them, early doors,

"You've got all your heroes, film stars and musicians.

Why haven't you got a footballer?"

And the answer was really

none of the four was interested in football.

Despite growing up in Liverpool in their teenage years,

they didn't go to football matches.

There weren't fans really,

'cause they were so busy playing the guitar,

playing in the Quarrymen.

I see that Paul has later said

that he was from an Everton family,

but at the time, he never mentioned that

when I was with him, and his parents,

his dad never mentioned that.

So, they said, "Yeah, that's a good idea."

And they had one footballer in the whole of the lineup,

Albert Stubbins.

And John chose Albert Stubbins because the name amused him.

- If it would have been another year,

there would have been Ravi Shankar and the Maharishi there.

- A lot of them were American, so you had to.

And in those days, you know, you didn't have the e-mails,

so you had to write to them and get permission.

And if they were dead,

you still needed permission from the families.

So I had a file that thick

of all the correspondence with "Sgt. Pepper."

- [Announcer] Chertsey, ready to roll to Weybridge,

a gypsy-type caravan,

a present for a 4-year-old who probably has everything.

The name, Julian Lennon, son of John Lennon,

who else but the Beatles?

It's about £4,000 worth of gaily painted,

renovated rolling stock, a big toy for a little boy.

It even needed a police escort.

But then, it's not every dad

that spends that sort of money on his young son.

This might be one occasion when money can buy love.

If he ever decides to leave home,

and it seems hardly likely,

he'll be the best-equipped gypsy on the road.

(upbeat music)

- I'd visit a friend of mine just off the King's Road.

And there were a few of us, and we'd all sit

'round the table and listen to great music and smoke pot,

and nobody really said very much.

And I remember there were some books on this table.

They were always very interesting

sort of spiritual books.

I remember picking one up called "Karma and Rebirth,"

and it was by somebody called Christmas Humphreys.

And I was just flicking through the book,

and I saw this line that said,

"Life goes on within you and without you."

And I thought, "Wow, that's very special."

And so I immediately called Pattie and George,

and George answered the phone, and I said, "Listen to this.

Life goes on within you and without you."

He loved it, and of course,

that became the song "Within You Without You."

- George Martin told me years later,

after George Harrison had died, he said,

"Well, the reason it's the first track

on the second side of 'Sgt. Pepper'

is so people could go straight to the second track

and not play it."

And I never thought it worked.

- The sitar being in songs,

in rock or psychedelic music,

I mean, that was a massive thing

on that "Sgt. Pepper" album.

It's like nobody was, you know,

you'd sort of seen Elvis and Little Richard,

but you never imagined somebody coming along with a sitar

in a current, popular band at that time.

- Paul, I think quite rightly said,

like when he was growing up,

that the album sleeves were very important,

the colors of labels and even, like, the smell of an album.

He was very aware of the tactile

and visual aspects of an album

and all the details that as a kid you really absorb,

and even the, you know, Garrod and Lofthouse,

you know, printers' thing at the bottom.

So he wanted it full of kind of goodies, and it had

you know, good illustrations, freebies inside.

The Fool had done the, like, a splash of color

on the actual inner sleeve.

- It did what it said on the tin. It was mind-blowing.

You're going, there they are,

dressed in this Sgt. Pepper gear.

And then you pull the sleeve, and you think, wow.

You can cut out the Pepper mustache, you know.

And there's Sgt. Pepper there.

You can cut him out and stand him up.

I think the dilemma was, do I leave it all flat

and not disturb it, which I did, 'cause I thought,

you're not going to get much mileage

wearing the cardboard mustache, really.

Especially 10 years old.

But I've still got it as it is, flat in the thing.

But that was a kind of thing

where you got more involved with the sleeve.

- The whole thing was Paul's idea.

I could see sketches he was doing.

I could hear the discussions.

I could hear the discussions about the title.

I could hear how they were going to arrange it.

And then I went 'round one day, and he said,

"We're doing the photograph this evening."

So I jumped in his Mini Minor,

and we went to Michael Cooper's studio in Flood Street.

And as we're leaving Paul's house,

which he still has 'round the corner, he said,

"Oh, we'll need some stuff to decorate the front of it."

I'd seen drawings,

and they were still messing around and changing their minds.

I'd seen costumes coming to the house,

and they'd try them on and say, "No, that's not,

a different one."

Anyway, he said, "Take something to put

in the beginning of the, front of the photograph."

So I looked 'round, and from his shelf, I took a statue.

I think actually I didn't know what it was.

It was like this, like a spaceship,

which each of them were given some years earlier.

John gave his away to a fan who came to the door,

just gave it to them.

So I picked it off the mantelpiece beside his Magritte.

- He loved Magritte, and he'd bought

the painting of Magritte's as an apple,

with an apple, which was used for the Apple company.

And also, Linda bought him

Magritte's original painting palettes and an easel.

And he wanted Magritte on, but no, Magritte told

Robert Fraser's artwork people that he was an agent for.

So, to me, that was a bit of a disaster.

That could have been,

this wonderful concept of all their heroes

and all the people who had influenced them,

which would have been a great insight

into the Beatles, was rejected.

So don't for a minute think that this is the genuine,

the authentic "Sgt. Pepper" cover, because it ain't.

- It was like the deductive logic of thinking,

who have they left out, you know? Why is it all these?

But it was all people of the day, you know,

all the greats, you know.

And you never know whether they was sending them up

or going, "These are our heroes," you know?

Didn't quite know, but it...

There was a lot of irony, to me, as well.

I just thought, you know what?

They're having a laugh with this.

You know, they put all these people on

more than themselves in a sense, you know,

even though they're, these were all our friends.

And of course, the lovely, little thing,

"Welcome the Rolling Stones," you know.

(Laughs)

- It was incredibly expensive,

and EMI thought they were crackers.

Why would you want to do all this on a pop album

that'll be replaced in six months' time by another one?

Is that the way you're going to keep it?

They didn't get it, the Beatles, they had huge ambition,

huge ambition, and talent, you know, and ego, too.

They said, "No, we're going to do something special.

This'll be really good," you know.

- There is the sort of the medals.

And Pete Best's dad

was a boxing promoter in Liverpool, at Liverpool Stadium.

And he had the, a sort of a cup

granted to him in Liverpool

and which Neil Aspinall

sort of brought down to use on the sleeve.

- My mother's family were, even though they were English,

were born, you know, during the Raj.

Military family out in India.

Her father, my grandfather,

was a major in the Lancers.

And she was very proud of the fact

that her father had a string of medals.

And I think on numerous occasions

while she was regaling them,

she'd show them these medals, you know, to the four of them.

Around I'd say '67

when they were assimilating all the stuff for "Sgt. Pepper,"

John remembered, right, the medals,

and he said, "I think they'd be great for Sgt. Pepper.

Would you go back and ask Mona if we could borrow them

And she turned 'round to me and said,

"Take them with my blessings, okay,

but tell John I want them back."

So Neil took them back down to London.

When the decision came,

looking at the medals and all the other bits and pieces,

John decided the string of medals he was going to wear

were part of that collection, right?

And hence you see them on (pops lips) Sgt. Pepps.

The beauty of it was he was true to his word, you know,

because he sent the medals back again

to Mona via Neil,

and that's how the family

became involved with "Sgt. Pepper."

You know, the album went on to be

the alleged best seller in the world, you know,

and there they are, okay?

But for many years, no one knew about it.

- Chas and Jimi were great friends of mine.

And I had an acetate of "Sgt. Pepper,"

and I gave it to Chas,

and he played it to Jimi.

And Jimi immediately latched onto it

and rehearsed it and got it together.

And I had him play in the Saville theater

on the Sunday after the release of "Pepper."

And he played it.

- McCartney went along and loved it.

He felt tremendously complimented,

because this was a very, very hard rock star,

you know, playing his stuff.

And he wanted, He was a songwriter.

He loved it when other people played his stuff.

- When "Sgt. Pepper" came out, June the 1st, '67,

it had been trailed for so long.

You knew it was coming, and the anticipation was enormous.

We'd read the NME, the Melody Maker,

and things, waiting for this thing.

Wherever you went along the King's Road, anywhere,

it was playing, every single boutique you went into,

every shop you went into.

It was an event.

And the album, when I saw the cover,

the cover itself was an event.

It was sort of saying,

"We're not just mucking around, fellas.

This is special," you know? It was a huge presentation.

- When we were making the little film

for "Strawberry Fields" it was filmed in Sevenoaks in Kent.

And we had a little hotel called Bright's Hotel,

and next door, there was an antique shop.

And the poster was just there on the wall,

and we bought it for half a crown

or a quid or something.

And it was basically, you know,

"For the benefit of Mr. Kite," and listing all the acts,

Pablo Fanque's fair and all this.

There's the dancing horse.

And he framed it

and put in his den in Weybridge

and then just wrote the song,

yeah, basically straight off the poster.

He just turned it into a poetry.

And then George Martin

added all his wonderful fairground effects to it.

It's a masterpiece.

- 'Cause he got his inspiration from other ways,

like on the "Sgt. Pepper" album,

also from a Daily Mail article

about his friend Tara Browne

being killed in the car crash, you know?

And the same with Paul with getting the Daily Mail idea

about "She's leaving home," about Melanie Coe,

who left home to go out with a man.

Paul put, "It was a man from the motor trade."

He made that up, and everyone thinks it was Terry Doran.

But Paul said it wasn't, you know, Terry Doran was

their friend who ran the car business.

- [Announcer] Chertsey.

That is one of the wheels of John Lennon's Rolls.

It's a gas. If you're over 80, that means it's fab.

£6,000 worth of 1965 Phantom,

inside almost as marvelous as out.

Well, perhaps not quite.

Now that the supercar has been dolled up in a grand manner,

not even a Beatle could wish for more.

- When Paul went public about LSD,

which was talking to a Life magazine reporter

and that got picked up, Certainly, I can remember

reading it on the front page of the Daily Mirror.

And then, of course, the news media,

the, you know, the TV news got in on the act.

And I think John was a bit miffed

that he and George had been the first ones to take LSD.

And here's Paul, the relative latecomer,

being the first one to say, "I took LSD."

They thought it was kind of unfair on them,

because they'd been the pioneers in that area.

- Paul, how often have you taken LSD?

- About four times.

- And where did you get it from?

- Oh, you know, I mean, if I was to say where I got it from,

you know, it's illegal and everything.

It's silly to say that, so I'd rather not say that.

- Don't you believe that this was a matter

which you should have kept private?

- You know, the thing is, you know, that I was asked

a question by a newspaper.

And the decision was whether to tell a lie

or to tell him the truth, you know?

I decided to tell him the truth.

But I really didn't want to say anything, you know,

'cause if I had my decision, you know, if I had it my way,

I wouldn't have told anyone, you know,

'cause I'm not trying to spread the word about this.

But the man from the newspaper

is the man from the mass media.

You know, I'll keep it a personal thing.

If he does, too, you know, if he keeps it quiet.

But he wanted to spread it.

So it's his responsibility, you know,

for spreading it, not mine.

- But you're a public figure,

and you said it in the first place.

You must have known that it would make,

would have made the newspapers.

- Yes, but to say it, you know, is only to tell the truth.

I'm telling the truth, you know.

I don't know what everyone's so angry about.

- Well, do you think you have now

encouraged your fans to take drugs?

- I don't think it'll make any difference.

You know, I don't think my fans

are going to take drugs just 'cause I did.

You know, but the thing is that that's not the point anyway.

You know, I was asked whether I had or not.

And then from then on,

the whole bit about how far it's going to go

and how many people it's going to encourage

is up to the newspapers and up to you,

you know, on television.

I mean, you're spreading this now at this moment.

This is going into all the homes, you know, in Britain.

And I'd rather it didn't, you know,

but you're asking me the question.

You want me to be honest. I'll be honest, you know.

- But as a public figure,

surely you've got a responsibility to-

- No, it's you've got the responsibility.

You've got the responsibility not to spread this now.

You know, I'm quite prepared to keep it

as a very personal thing, if you will, too.

If you'll shut up about it, I will.

- The emergence of LSD, of course, you have to remember,

was, first emergence, was at a time

when it wasn't illegal in this country.

And there was a place called

the International Psychedelic Centre

where you could go in and try it off the street.

You could have it spread on a little piece of bread.

It soon was made illegal.

And there were a great many

very, very sort of plausible arguments

that it was a wonderful thing to do.

- John always said, "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds,"

was actually Julian, his son, had come home from school

with a painting, and it was of Lucy,

a little girl at the school, in the sky with diamonds.

And John always said it wasn't about LSD.

And he swore it wasn't.

But I think it probably was, to be honest.

- John would have had to have been word-blind

not to see that "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" was LSD.

And we know John wasn't word-blind.

- Even though John says, "Oh, it was just an accident,"

I think, you know, you could use a bit of artistic license.

You know, I think it's a bit more

than a coincidence, really, you know,

- The LSD initials is just random.

They, I don't believe there was any coding anywhere.

But now and again, in things like "I Am the Walrus,"

and people would say, "What does that mean, John?

Oh, can we get that clear?"

And he would deliberately throw in nonsense things.

I've got a quote in my book about,

"Let them work it out. Let them work it out.

That will confuse them."

So he wasn't really sending messages.

He was sending red herrings.

- The Beatles have a very good story

about why "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" isn't LSD,

but that was probably written by Brian Epstein,

that story, wasn't it?

I would have thought the chances are it really was LSD,

and they were told it'd be better if it wasn't.

And as for being turned on, well, the BBC were right

that that's what it was, but completely wrong to ban it,

'cause that's part of youth culture at the time.

- In "Sgt. Pepper," they knew what they were doing.

They were putting little jokes.

Well, there were earlier jokes, you know.

In "Penny Lane," "fish and finger pie."

They'd put that in on purpose.

A bit vulgar, really, but, you know, schoolboy smut.

- They banned "A Day in the Life." They got it wrong.

"Too many holes to fill the Albert Hall,"

that was based on the Daily Mail article

about actually holes in the road in Blackburn, Lancashire.

And they thought it was to do with needles in the arm,

so they banned it, you know,

and this is the sort of attitude you had in those days.

- There is no question that they were,

on that album, they were taking chances.

They knew they were taking chances

when they did the long, drawn-out cry

of "I'd love to turn you on."

They knew what they were doing.

And they had got away with so much,

and they thought they could get away with it

and very largely did.

Really, they introduced the whole world

to psychedelia and psychedelic drugs.

They had the platform.

There was a lot of things going in America,

lot of drugs and stuff and Timothy Leary.

And coming up with that great line

from The Tibetan Book of the Dead,

"She said, 'I know what it's like to be dead,'"

which, that was mind-blowing. It was suddenly like,

from "She Loves You" to that was,

that was a dramatic statement.

- It was normally Mick, Keith, and their band of minstrels

who got it in the neck

for being a terrible influence and the sort of people

that you wouldn't let your daughter go out with.

But the Beatles weren't saints.

I'm sure even they collectively would have admitted that.

- It somehow wasn't regarded quite like

the drugs that had always terrified the British,

you know, like cocaine,

which had been around forever anyway.

And people used to say in the '20s,

people like Lady Diana Cooper,

a great socialite in the '20s,

later on told when she met pop stars and said,

"Oh, in the '20s, we used to sit around at dinner parties,

and there would be silver salt cellars full of cocaine,"

you know, so it wasn't very new.

- Lennon was reading Lewis Carroll and stuff like that,

and they was absorbing all this kind of thing.

So I suppose at the time, drugs seemed progressive,

like, "Oh, you can find this inner light

and interpret that in some ways," 'cause, you know,

music is a spiritual thing in a lot of ways.

- They used to go off to the gentlemen's toilet.

You know, they wouldn't do it in the studio,

or they would duck down behind a sort of baffle

to take a quick drag of a joint.

But there was a moment when John had to go up on the roof.

And again, this shows the closeness that was between them.

Paul took him home to Paul's house in St John's Wood,

and Neil Aspinall was there, as well,

and they looked after John, because you had to be

looked after with LSD.

- The thing with taking acid is that you always realize

that whatever happens during your trip,

you knew that was there.

And now it was a matter of just living with that information

rather than keep taking it.

That's why it was easy when Maharishi appeared,

because everybody was ready.

- The Maharishi era starts with actually George's wife,

Pattie Boyd, who hears about the Maharishi.

The Maharishi had been coming to London

for years before that.

I can remember seeing his picture in the underground

long before the Beatles discovered him.

They are in that position

where wealth and luxury and fame start to get a bit boring.

They're looking for something else.

They're looking for something a bit beyond that,

a bit spiritual.

And the Maharishi had a fast track

to inner bliss and enlightenment,

and you only had to do it for half an hour a day

or something, perfectly tuned in

to a rock star's attention span.

- I got rung up one evening by Michael McCartney,

and he said, "There's going to be a happening."

And there was always happenings in the '60s.

It could just be a sort of a hamburger

and a Coca-Cola, that was a happening.

And he said, "They're going off tomorrow to Bangor."

I said, "Where, Bangor?"

"To see the Maharishi." "Who's he?"

"They've just met him last night,

and they'd been to an event of his at a Hilton, some hotel,

and listened to him."

And they were, George was already into Indian mysticism

and spiritual awareness and Indian music.

I got on the train with the four Beatles,

and I sat in the compartment, this is 1967.

It was a first-class compartment.

And, "How are you?" In those days, you had a corridor

and a closed first-class compartment they put blinds on.

And I sat there with the four Beatles

and me and Mick Jagger and Marianne Faithfull,

and we traveled all the way to Bangor.

While we're traveling,

we stopped a couple of times at places like Chester,

and they'd be kids on the platform,

shouting and screaming and putting autograph books.

You could open the windows in those days.

And now and again, a kid would get

three Beatles but not John.

John would say, "I'm not fucking signing.

I'm fed up signing," and they'd be in tears,

so I would sign "John Lennon."

Anyway, Maharishi was on the same train.

That was why it was vital to get that train.

And we all went into his carriage,

and he gave us a mantra which I cannot reveal.

(inquisitive music)

- The Beatles seem to be among your supporters now.

How do you feel about that?

- I feel a great promise for the younger generation,

because if the Beatles take up

this transcendental meditation,

they are the ideal of energy and intelligence

in the younger generation.

And that will really bring up the youth

on a very good level of understanding and intelligence.

I'm very happy about it,

that they heard my lecture last evening,

and they talked to me for about an hour after the lecture.

They seem to be very intelligent and alert.

- Do you think that if the Beatles adopt your teaching,

then they can spread it

amongst other young people in England?

- Much more easily, not only England,

but throughout the world,

because the word Beatle has gone in all the continents,

and younger people are fascinated by that name.

- What do you think of the Beatles?

- Very good, intelligent young boys,

and there's a great potential.

- And their music? - Music, I haven't heard,

but because they are appreciated all over the world,

they must have something very graceful in their music.

(people chattering)

- Cynthia was the Candide of the Beatles story,

always left behind.

When they went to see the Maharishi in Wales,

she was left on the platform.

She missed the train. They all went on the train.

She was standing, crying on the platform.

- I think the Maharishi was very sharp,

and he knew how to get publicity.

Mind you, there were people in previous generations

who'd done the same thing

and had latched onto the rich and famous,

'cause they knew that if their ideas

caught on with the smart set,

they would filter down to the ordinary people.

So this this wasn't novel in itself,

but the Maharishi did it, and the Hare Krishna people did it

because they sent stuff 'round to Apple,

and, you know, they ended up with a record deal.

And if anybody knows about the Hare Krishna movement,

they would link that, you know, back to

the popularity that they got through the Beatles.

(upbeat music)

* Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna *

* Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare *

* Hare Rama, Hare Rama *

* Rama Rama, Hare Hare *

* Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna *

- I think, given what they've experienced

and knowing what I've experienced

on a lesser level than that, but I've experienced

some of the things that you do in a band

and you want to find more, you know.

I mean, there's playing live on the stage.

There's making music, there's amazing experiences,

amazing input into your life

and how you deal with it and how you're looking at it.

And then, you know, they must have thought,

"We'll take this spiritual thing to another level.

- So, yeah, the Maharishi is very sharp.

He had, like, an American socialite lady

who promoted him in America.

And it was her son who became Bungalow Bill

in the song on the White Album.

So yeah, he did, he knew the, the publicity value

of having these four, you know,

most famous guys in the world,

probably certainly the most famous popular singing group.

Even though he probably wouldn't have known a lot

about their music, I mean, he would have known

the incredible value of spreading his message.

So, yeah, Maharishi was a sharp businessman,

and he had a background I think in physics.

He studied physics at university,

so had kind of a scientific line.

And he had a publicity side of him,

and he had the spiritual side, as well.

(lighthearted music)

- We got to Bangor.

And that evening, the roadies had still not arrived,

and I went into town

with the four Beatles and me to have a meal.

And we went to a Chinese restaurant.

The bill came to 10 quid, and I only had 5 quid on me.

And I said, "I'm very sorry.

These are the Beatles. I know it's..."

It was Hong Kong Chinese waiters

who'd just arrived probably the day before,

and all they could hear was the Liverpool accent.

And it was quite common on a Saturday evening

for Scousers to come across from Liverpool,

run up a massive bill, and do a runner.

And they thought, and they were closing the door,

and they were sharpening their knives.

And I said, "Look, I'm a journalist

on the Sunday Times, I've written lots of books.

Here's my card, I'll come tomorrow, I'll get money."

And it was getting really nasty

when George put his foot on the table.

And he was wearing handmade Indian sandals.

And he asked for a knife, and he cut the top.

The trouble was, you see, the Beatles have been famous

for, oh, God, four years,

and like the royal family, they'd ceased to carry money.

The roadies carried the money. They didn't pay for anything.

So George slit open the sandal and pulled out a £20 note.

And three or four years later,

they'd become the most famous people in the world

and multimillionaires on paper and not carrying money.

He thought, "One of these days, I'm going to need some cash.

Otherwise, there could be problems."

And that was that evening.

- Brian Epstein set up a party to celebrate "Sgt. Pepper."

The Beatles actually wanted

originally to do a special promotional film

or performance to time with the album,

which didn't happen.

But Brian had gone into gambling

and taking too many tablets and all the rest of it.

And he was drifting away.

Even Cilla Black and her husband

came to Brian, says, "You know, Cilla wants a new manager.

You're not taking any attention anymore."

And he actually cried at that

and pleaded with her to stay with him.

- Brian was homosexual,

and people in the know picked that up.

The strange thing about him was that he...

Everybody, when they heard this, thought he must fancy Paul,

'cause Paul was the pretty one of the Beatles.

But he didn't.

He fancied John, because he preferred macho boys.

When he went gay hunting in London,

he would always try and pick up boys who were not gay.

He'd ply them with drink, bring, only discovered this later,

bring them back to his lovely house,

try to get them into bed, and then they would beat him up,

and that was his pleasure.

He was a masochist, being beaten up.

And then they would steal stuff,

and they'd often steal acetates

and would flog them to Radio Luxembourg.

And there was just absolute panic that they would steal

not jewelry or money,

but steal Beatles tapes that hadn't been released.

- There wasn't a lot for Brian to do.

You know, you have to remember that NEMS, Brian's company,

had become the biggest entertainment agency

in the world, you know, they represented everybody,

you know, the Beatles, Andy Williams, the Bee Gees,

Cream, Donovan, Tony Bennett.

And this has all grown in like three, four years.

If the Beatles had stopped touring, which they had,

and their recording contract was

signed, sealed, and delivered,

and their music publishing contract was signed,

there was very little for a man to do,

you know, to negotiate.

- Now they were going to somebody else for personal

advice

and how to live and how to spend their spare time

and how to use their minds.

Brian felt more and more left out.

He got more and more into drugs, and he got more and more

into finding new boyfriends and being promiscuous

and in fact was cutting himself off from them

as much as they were cutting themselves off from him.

(somber music)

- They signed up to his transcendental meditation

movement, and they agreed to go on this course,

yes, in Bangor, in North Wales.

So it was a huge circus when they set off on this train

and into this very sort of unlikely environ

of a teacher training college, but of course, that was where

the news of Brian Epstein's death reached them.

- He was found in his second-floor bedroom

just after 2:00 this afternoon by his housekeeper.

She said it was his habit to sleep late at weekends,

especially if he'd had a tiring

or perhaps upsetting week at work.

She said that all yesterday, he spent the day at home

and yesterday evening, which was unusual for him.

Mr. Epstein has been unwell now for some months

and has been in the habit of taking tablets

to help him sleep at night.

Only recently, just over a month ago,

he was further upset by the sudden death of his father.

Friends have been trying to persuade him

in the last few days to take a long holiday,

but only yesterday, he told one of them,

"I feel on top of the world."

Just over half an hour ago, a friend...

Friends have been here all afternoon and evening.

They've been paying visits to the house

to see his lawyer, Mr. David Jacobs.

And one of them left half an hour ago

and said to people around, "It was an accident."

- He was an unhappy person.

He never had a proper partner.

He had a quite a few partners,

several of whom worked for Apple,

but it never really became a proper relationship.

And when these things happened, he had these boys,

and it all went sour, he would get depressed.

He would take pills. He would be suicidal.

When he died, he didn't commit suicide, but he had...

There had been a suicide attempt earlier on.

And that would really depress him.

(people chattering)

- Have you a tribute you'd like to pay to Mr. Epstein?

- Oh, you know, we don't know what to say.

We loved him, and he was one of us,

So you can't, you know-

- You can't pay tribute in words.

- What are your plans now?

- To return to London and do whatever we can.

- Did the Maharishi give any words of comfort?

- Yes, well... - His meditation gives you

confidence enough to withstand something like this,

even the short amount we've had.

- And with him, we've got to know about

there's no real such thing as death anyway.

I mean, it's death on a physical level.

But life goes on everywhere,

and you just keep going, really.

But, so the thing is, it's not as disappointing as,

it is, and it isn't, you know?

And the thing about, the comfort is to know

that he's okay.

- I understand that this afternoon,

Maharishi conferred with you all.

Could I ask you what advice he had to give?

- He told us

not to get overwhelmed by grief,

and whatever thoughts we have of Brian, to keep them happy,

because any thoughts we have of him will travel to him,

wherever he is. - Had he ever met Mr. Epstein?

- No, but he was looking forward to meeting him.

- Tomorrow? - Yes.

Thank you very much.

- And if you look at that footage,

I mean, John is completely stunned.

They were very, very taken with the Maharishi.

It wasn't just, you know, just another sort of diversion.

They did believe him.

- They'd been plunged into this chaotic world.

Brian had died, and it was sort of,

I think there's times in all our lives

when we turn to some sort of religious,

as in, way-of-life, philosophy,

looking for answers.

And that's what they were doing.

- I got the phone call from a friend very early on,

and I just couldn't believe it.

And I remember,

just thinking, like, where do we go from here?

You know, it was just a utter shock to everybody.

You know, where did we go from there?

- But I remember the Maharishi saying to them,

"Don't worry. He's gone on to the next stage in his life.

You don't have to be sad.

He's gone, and he'll be turning into this, he'll be doing...

So, came out with all that claptrap.

And unfortunately, the Beatles got interviewed

almost immediately after Maharishi

had been coming out with all these cobblers.

And it was, they appeared callous.

And Brian's mother and Brian's brother Clive

were upset by that,

by how it was reported, they didn't mean it.

- Well, the weekend, Brian thought he might go to Bangor.

In fact, he didn't. He stayed at home.

And that very same weekend, Robert Stigwood

invited me 'round for drinks one afternoon.

And when I got there, Brian was at his house,

and the three of us sat and watched,

and watched athletics on television and had a few drinks.

And then we all went out to Battersea funfair.

We spent a couple of hours wandering around, having fun.

We probably smoked a bit of pot

'cause we were all very giggly.

I can't remember the pot, but I remember the giggles,

and one wouldn't have been without the other, would it?

And then we went off and had some supper together.

And at the end of supper, Brian said,

"I'd like to have dinner with you. When are you free?"

And we arranged to have dinner the next night.

And the next night, I met Brian, I went 'round his house,

and we drove up to Islington, to Frederick's

and had dinner there and then came back to his house

for some after-night, after-dinner drinks.

And it became quite clear to me

over the course of a few brandies

that Brian's idea was I was going to stay,

and my idea was definitely I was not going to stay.

And so I said, "I'm going now," and Brian got a bit moody,

and I said, "No, sorry. I'm going. That's it."

And I went and he said to me as I was going, he said,

"Please, will you come and stay the weekend with me?"

And again, what's the point?

I knew why he wanted me to stay the weekend,

and it wasn't something I wanted.

So I said, "Well, we'll talk about it later."

And then the next day, he phoned me and said,

"Would you come and spend the weekend in the country?"

And I said, "No, I'm going to Ireland."

- What do we know about the end of Brian's life?

- We don't.

And probably never will.

I mean, I spoke to Jo, obviously,

the next day, and she...

They couldn't get any...

They didn't even know he was home,

'cause he was supposed to be down at his country place.

And then she said she'd got this phone call

from the chauffeur to say, "Can't open the door."

And she went there and found him, basically.

And I said at the time, I just don't get it,

because he was so happy being down there.

Why would he come home

halfway through the weekend?

But I don't think anyone will ever know the story, really.

- So, you know the story about me and Brian.

Do you want me to tell the story?

- Yes, please. - Okay.

So, while I was in Ireland, I got a phone call from a friend

who said Brian Epstein's died.

And I immediately looked at the papers,

and the papers said he'd been found that morning

and died of an overdose, and I had in my house at home

the very, very first answer phone

which a company had made for me specially

because they were experimenting

with what could be done with telephones.

And I had a sixth sense in the back of my mind

that when I got back home to London,

and I went in my flat and pressed the button,

there would be a message from Brian on there.

And sure enough, I got back, and I pressed the button,

and there were several messages from Brian.

And he'd gone to the country as he planned,

called me at home, when I wasn't there, I was in Ireland

and said, "Simon, if you're there,

please come down to the country."

And then he said, "Well, I'm coming back from the country.

Could you come over to the house?" and I didn't

'cause I didn't hear any of these messages.

I was in Ireland.

And these messages went on,

and they got more and more blurred.

And it was quite obvious listening later

that he was taking sleeping pills or some other stuff

and probably going off to sleep and waking up,

forgetting you'd taken one, taking another.

And finally, the last message was very blurred,

and he'd said,

"Oh, I wish you were here," and some other personal things

which are not worth repeating.

And then he died.

So I was a little bit involved in that thing.

And of course I did the stupid, British, correct thing,

is I immediately erased the tape.

(chuckles)

Didn't even listen to it a second time.

But here we are.

I didn't know the value of these things.

- Brian Epstein was part of it all the way.

And it was a massive shock, because you thought,

well, are they going to carry on?

What's going to happen now?

Looking back, it's almost like he'd played his part, really.

You know, he'd gone off into this other spirit world,

and, you know, they was going off somewhere else, really.

- What they realized had gone was a protective shield,

like a parent, a protective parent.

Brian's deals were not always

the greatest deals for the Beatles,

because he was only going on precedent, on deals

that had been made before then.

He didn't realize it was completely new territory.

But against that,

he was completely dedicated to protecting them,

as in that, the famous case of the, you know,

the "more popular than Jesus" remark from John.

Brian would have canceled that American tour,

he was so concerned with their safety.

And in the end, contractually, of course, he couldn't.

But he wanted to.

That was what had gone, like a shield,

an impermeable shield that he'd always provided them

from the moment that he met them.

- He helped to protect them in that sense.

And Brian's,

Brian's group,

the Peter Brown and the other people in the NEMS office,

they serviced the Beatles.

They paid all their bills.

They bought presents for their girlfriends.

They bought presents for their wives.

- A lot of people say Brian wasn't a great manager.

He may not have been great at running them as a mega group,

looking after money at the highest level.

But without him, they wouldn't have happened.

It was his persistent,

his affection for them, his absolute certainty

that they would happen and their music was great.

And then he did other things which managers have to do,

and he did it particularly well,

like keeping all the hangers-on away from them.

He put a wall between them and all the hangers-on,

which is strange, 'cause Brian never managed to put a wall

between himself and the Epstein hangers-on,

who all hung onto him and took money off him like mad.

But he was very good at doing it with the Beatles,

and he kept those people away.

So without him, quite apart from his rather careful attitude

towards money and finance gone,

all the hangers-on just flocked.

- Being in a group, you do need a referee sometimes.

Not many groups agree on everything, you know.

I know we saw in "Help!"

where they all walk to the same door

and lived in the same house.

But that was only a moment for the film.

I mean, anybody knows that's been in a group,

you know, the characters develop in a group,

and you don't always see eye to eye, but somewhere,

you do get this thing that still makes it work,

some consensus when everybody in the group kind of agrees

on things, and it goes on.

So when Brian went, there's no referee

to kind of sort that and oversee, you know.

- They couldn't do anything by themselves,

and they never had done anything by themselves.

There'd always been him, you know?

You know, they...

As a band, he was the thing

that held them together by this time.

- Well, they dusted themselves off very quickly,

if you think about it logically,

and started Apple.

- Apple was a financial measure really

to try and consolidate their fortune

and try to save them from a horrendous amount of income tax,

which they could save by investing in a business.

The thing that it was all based on, which was a mistake,

was that it wasn't to protect and consolidate

their musical copyrights.

It was a short-term financial measure, really.

It was going to be a record label,

but with other ancillary businesses,

because the Beatles' influence

extended into all these other areas like fashion.

They were going to have a boutique.

They were just going to do everything, really,

but also be like a hippie arts council

where deserving, young, creative people

could find support and sympathy,

because the Beatles remember

when, you know, they didn't get,

the Beatles always had amazing support!

It was a myth, you know.

They had Brian Epstein. They had George Martin.

They had Dick James.

They had three basically honest men

just encouraging them for all they were worth.

But still, "No, they'd suffered,

so they were going to help the suffering masses

of the creative community."

- I interviewed Paul, and he was full of these ideas

about this sort of kind of communist Marks & Spencer

and all these things, and I'm thinking, "Oh, God,

you know, this isn't going to work."

And I was. I was sort of thinking, "You sure about this,

you know 'cause he said, "Oh, yeah, really.

Very interesting." But, hmm.

You know, this is Paul,

and they may have been right.

It turned out they weren't right.

- This was how Alice Pollock and Ossie Clark

reckoned the girls will look this summer.

And looking on with approval, a couple of Beatles,

George Harrison, wife Pattie Boyd

was modeling at the show, and John Lennon.

(upbeat music)

From dresses to dresses or, to be more exact,

a leather suit called Dazz, 25 guineas' worth.

Pattie Boyd wearing African Queen.

It's in crepe and costs 9 1/2 guineas.

Less formal, a white satin jacket and black trousers,

10 guineas the lot.

- I worked at the Apple Boutique right from the beginning.

I was there for the three months

before we actually went off to India.

And it was so different to anything that was around.

For a start, you know, the beautiful trinkets from India

and posters of Ganesha, of the gods and goddesses.

And it was very exciting working there,

and it was so different.

But it also was in keeping

with how we were feeling at that time

that, you know, it's, the world can be full of color,

and it doesn't have to be just black and white.

- Have they seen you yet? - Mm.

- They have. Last night? - Yesterday,

yesterday, the moment they came,

they met me for about 10 minutes.

And then now they have been with me

from about 10:00, after their breakfast.

- Uh-huh. How long were they together with you?

- From 10:00 until now, I think, about two, three hours.

- And what did you do? Did you meditate, or did you talk?

- Meditation and some talk and meditation.

Very intelligent.

- And will they be graduate meditation guides?

What will be their- - I hope.

- Ah. What do they have to do to attain this?

- To attain this, they have to have

a deep and clear experience of being.

- I'd been told, although it wasn't true, by a doctor

that I had tonsillitis, actually, it was something else.

And I had different people come and visit.

and John and Cynthia came in one day,

and John said, "I've got a drawing for you."

And it was a drawing of an Indian man

with a turban on his head, and he's playing a flute.

And there's, he's sitting down cross-legged,

and there's a basket at his feet with a snake coming out.

And the inscription was,

"By the power that's in and the power that's out,

I cast your tonsil lighthouse out.

Love, John and Cin."

- George talked a lot about, "Well, taking LSD

gave me a glimpse of this and that,

but it was just like climbing the mountain

and looking over the top and then realizing

there's another range of mountains beyond that."

So I think he was wanting to sort of pursue it

in a drug-free way, if you like.

Plus, I mean, it gave a kind of a natural break

for them all.

You know, it gave an excuse to be somewhere else together,

relatively quiet.

- I don't know quite how the Maharishi entered their lives,

but he wasn't the first one,

because I was around that whole group the whole time.

I used to see them every night in the Scottish St James.

And we were already aware

they were seeing another person at that time.

I think the Maharishi came second, you know,

as they climbed up the staircase of Indian mysticism,

they realized that their Maharishi

or whoever it was they were seeing wasn't quite top-level.

So they went off to India with this other Maharishi,

who, of course, subsequently,

we all know is a bit of a fraud

and was not really top-level himself,

but he gave them nice rooms

and five-star hotel accommodation.

I mean, it's quite good, isn't it,

to enter Indian mysticism and all its ascetic necessity,

but still do it on the five-star-hotel level.

- There is a funny story.

When they decided to go to the Maharishi in India,

Maureen was, Ringo's wife, was petrified of insects,

so she went to Harrods and bought herself

babygrows but adult size

so they couldn't get anywhere near her.

And Ritchie, who always had a very squeamish stomach

because he'd been ill as a kid,

said to me, "Can you get me Dr. Collis Browne

but gallons of it,

and baked beans, and just fill up a suitcase?"

Baked beans. Collis Browne.

So I did.

And it was full, this whole suitcase,

Collis Browne and...

And then two weeks later, they were home.

And I said to Maureen, "Well, that was a long stay, then.

You get rid of all the baked beans, did you?"

- There's no question that the whole Apple concept

had been thought up before Brian died.

In fact, that was another thing he'd worried about

that was going to leave him out even more,

'cause he wasn't involved in planning.

They were pushing him out.

They didn't say, "You can't be involved,"

but it certainly wasn't coming about at his instigation.

And I'd heard talks of Apple

quite a few weeks before Brian died,

and I think that was just one more thing which pushed him

to feel he wasn't a part of them anymore.

- When they had Apple,

we used to have lunches in the main office.

And we had a chef and everything else.

And Paul came in one day.

And they'd been losing money,

'cause, I mean, they were giving it away.

And he said, "I've got this guy coming

to tell us where we're going wrong

with our business plans."

And it was Beeching.

He turned up, invited to lunch,

basically to use his brain

to find out what we were doing wrong.

Anyway, we had this, they had this lunch,

and I'm taking the minutes of the meeting afterwards, and

he looked at Paul, and he said,

"I have to say I don't think

I'm going to be much help here,"

he said, "because I actually work

for much bigger organizations than Apple."

And Paul was like, "Oh. My goodness."

(laughs)

And I looked at Paul, and I said, "Mm, I think so.

- They had some good ideas, but they had some crazy ideas.

You know, they wanted to open schools.

They wanted to publish books.

They wanted to do all sorts of things, great ambitions.

And they they appealed to people, "Send in your poems.

Send in your stories. Send in your novels."

They just found rooms full of the stuff,

and they couldn't look through them.

They weren't set up to deal with that.

And this is another area where the Beatles pioneered.

You know, they didn't do it completely,

but they started to, like, have more control

over the product, control over their album sleeves,

you know, the way things looked and, you know,

eventually kind of control over their material,

although not to the sort of percentages that you get today.

- Well, the problem with Apple and Apple Boutique

and everything which happened in that Baker Street building

was they had a lot of money, they had freedom.

They'd got ideas from India, from the Maharishi.

They had a lot of hangers-on,

and the hangers-on were pretty good at being...

Hangers-on are usually pretty good at what they do.

- It was like Magic Alex.

Who thought that you could get a roll of wallpaper

with microphones in there

that would give you the best sound ever?

Magic Alex.

And I think, of all of them,

John was convinced he was magic.

They were quite,

well, I think we were all naive.

I mean, this was all a new experience.

But I think it was nice that they,

you know, they weren't selfish with their fame.

- Almost anybody who came in with any idea...

If somebody came in and said, "I make wonderful custard,"

then John said, "We're all gonna have custard

with our lunch every day."

I mean, just about anybody could get a job in there.

So it became very cluttered with people.

It was second-rate, very charming to us then,

but really quite second-rate.

And the Apple Boutique went the same way.

If you designed clothes and they were interesting,

obviously not commercial, that was for the Apple Boutique.

So nearly everything they touched in that time

would seem to be completely un-commercial.

- Neil was incredibly conscientious

and such a good man.

And Peter worked hard.

So the office ran very smoothly and very efficiently.

I had an office between Neil and Peter's.

Neil and Mal were doing the start

of basically "The Long and Winding Road,"

reminiscing to a tape.

And at the time, I was doing all the

letters to America,

all the news people saying,

"Have you got old footage of the Beatles?"

And that's how we got all the stuff back from America.

They were really good. They did it all.

And anyway, this particular night,

I'm walking through Neil's side.

And Neil and Mal,

I'll never forget it, were by the fire,

and I had to climb over,

God, I shouldn't say this, really,

Derek Taylor, who was screwing on the floor,

and I couldn't get past.

- The cartoon makes a bit of fun of the Maharishi.

Does this mean that you've finished with him now?

- Well, it's not finished with,

you know, but we're over that phase.

It was a bit of a phase.

But he's still a nice fella, and everybody's fine.

But we don't go out with him anymore.

- I thought he was bogus.

From the very first I heard of him, I thought, "Oh, God."

One of the problems, and John was the worst for this,

he'd latch onto things.

He would really just latch onto things.

And he was easily led.

And this may be a problem that,

you know, they'd been sheltered a bit.

They'd been locked into being Beatles for so long.

You know.

And I just thought, "This guy, he's a con man," you know?

And I'm sure there's something to do,

you know, meditation is probably a healthy thing.

For those who like it, fair enough.

But I just didn't believe it, and I still don't believe it.

- The Beatles believed

in the sort of spiritual side of things,

and they wanted to spread that.

And Maharishi saw the Beatles as they were world-known,

and they could spread his message.

And so originally, the idea was that they would set up

a T.M. meditation place in London,

and the Beatles would be very much part of it.

Pattie'd had a couple of dreams about Maharishi

that sort of depicted him in a different light.

And I think there was something to do with Mia Farrow,

as well, there were a lot of people.

But I also think that we were miles from anywhere,

and it was a different kind of life.

And here we were meditating sort of 6, 7 hours at a time,

maybe overnight, maybe couple of days.

And it was so different to what everybody had been used to,

especially the Beatles.

- In a way, the Maharishi got very bad press,

but he was quite an offensive,

and he was quite, you know, he looked a bit strange.

But then, you know, nowadays,

you wouldn't be able to say that.

You know, there was such sort of ridiculing of this figure.

And he was really just saying

very, very perfectly unanswerable things

like, "Love each other," and, you know, that kind of thing.

It was very much an extension of the hippie philosophy.

- Poor Maharishi was sort of alerted

that his prized troop were leaving,

and he was sitting watching us walk by

with his man holding an umbrella over his head,

kept saying, "Why are you leaving? Why are you leaving?"

So he had no idea.

And I know there's a famous quote where John had said,

I didn't actually remember this, but John said,

"Well, if you're so cosmic, you should know."

And that was it.

- Beatles' brief excursion into shop-keeping is over.

They say they're now rather tired of this particular toy.

- Ohh. - Out!

(people chattering)

- Oh, I'm so shaken up, don't even know

what I'm doing here now, I've been here since 7:00,

and I just happened to get shoved through the door.

- Shaken up, what, because of the crush outside?

- Oh, I've never seen anything like this.

I'm from Canada, and I'm amazed.

- What are you looking for now?

- I don't know! Suits, anything.

- Anything you can get.

- Anything that's groovy looking.

- Would you have come here?

- I don't know. Anything that's free.

- Would you have come to buy something here

if it hadn't been free?

- Too expensive for me.

- Anything. I don't really mind at all.

A dress, I think, or some trousers.

- Would you have come here to buy something

if it hadn't been free? - I have before now.

I've bought several things in here.

So it's not just because it's free.

It's because I like the shop.

- You have to ask the question,

how long would the relationship between the band

and the manager go on?

Then you have to bring into it Yoko Ono

and her increasing influence,

certainly on John.

Then you start looking at the Beatles as a business.

Then you're into Allen Klein.

Then you're into the ever-changing face

of the history of this brilliant pop group.

(upbeat music)

- To me,

it is the ultimate album,

because it meant so much and it still does,

and has still continued after all this time.

It is the world's #1 best rock music album.

- As far as I'm concerned, there's no bad Beatles album.

They're all brilliant.

I suppose it's my best, I think it's my best

because it was the one I saw all the way through,

and it was so revolutionary in the concept and the cover.

So it's my best album.

- It was enormous because back then,

they had the ability to publicize in an amazing way,

and also, they had everybody in their grip.

We were all totally taken up with the Beatles.

Almost nobody criticized them.

Everybody thought the cover was genius.

The songs were genius. The presentation was genius.

- To me, it was a, it was a miniature masterpiece.

It was like a pop symphony.

And it had wonderful continuity.

You know, the main theme,

the title track was at the beginning.

It was at the end.

Everything segued into everything else.

It was an absolute joy.

- There's something in the Beatles for every mood,

but the world, posterity says it's the greatest album ever.

- It is amazing. I mean, who else have we got

that has gone on for 50 years,

and how many generations are actually still listening to it?

- Listen to the thing in mono.

Just don't worry about the stereo,

because the Beatles weren't there when it was mixed.

They were off in India.

Where they sat, all four of them,

and listened to everything, made decisions, was the mono.

That's the most important thing I can say

about "Sgt. Pepper."

- You know, you get an album.

And there'd be one, this is years ago.

There'd be one or two or three maybe on the whole album

that you really, really, really liked.

And the rest of them, you just sort of...

They were on the album.

You'd skip it, skip them,

in the days when you did it yourself.

I think the Beatles records were the other way 'round.

There might be one you weren't too fond of

and the rest of them you're just nuts about it.

- They caught the moment. They just caught it.

And they were perfect, and they, you know,

they dragged along everybody else behind like a locomotive.

They pulled everything along with them.

And I think that if they'd put

"Penny Lane" and "Strawberry Fields" onto "Sgt. Pepper,"

it'd had been a whole different album.

It would have been literally the best album ever made.

- I contradict myself, sometimes I think,

"Well, I can't believe all this is happening."

But then I think, well, yeah,

because I just knew it would last forever.

You know, the music would last forever.

- It's also a great window

into an incredible era of change.

So if you study the Beatles to any degree,

you're studying the '60s,

and you're studying the history of the West

to some degree and how it changed.

- It's just a timeless thing.

It's like people still study Shakespeare

years and years after.

With the Beatles,

there's always been a feel-good factor in it, as well.

I always used to tell my friends, "If you're ever down,

put a Beatles record on.

They'll help you see the world in a lot better places,"

you know, it's got healing qualities in it.

- Four guys. It just worked.

And the talent was there.

And I don't think there ever will be another Beatles.

- It goes back to the Liverpool Echo,

when there was an article with Brian Epstein.

And he said, "I think the Beatles

are going to be bigger than Elvis."

And everybody laughed their heads off

and said, "How can a band from Liverpool,

from this little stage, the Cavern,

you know, with all the leather on everything,

become bigger than Elvis?" 'Cause Elvis was over there.

He was in America. He was the biggest star in the world.

But he was proved right.

It was biggest band ever of all time.

- I mean, he saw something that we didn't see.

I mean, I think the Beatles were embarrassed

by that statement,

'cause I think a lot of the Liverpool bands were, as well.

"Bigger than Elvis? Bigger than Elvis? Come on."

But Brian was right.

- Even to this day, the charisma

and the excitement that the name Beatles creates,

not just in Liverpool, worldwide,

no matter where you go,

Mexico, South America, Japan, Germany,

you name it, you know, a little island in Samoa somewhere.

You know, you mention Beatles, and it's the euphoria.

That is, I mean, that's the legacy they've left, you know?

And whether anyone will ever top that legacy,

nobody knows.

But it's a hell of a legacy, you know,

and it's wonderful for me to have been a small part of.

(music building)

(triumphant upbeat music)

(triumphant upbeat music continues)

- [Announcer] Hey, guys, where's the dog whistle?