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Previously on The Disappearance of Maura
Murray.
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February 9th, 2004.
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Maura vanishes after crashing her car.
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They had no tracks from the accident
scene into the woodlands. You don't have
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any signs of foul play.
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While looking into Maura's
disappearance, I pursued several
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Running away, murder, a police
conspiracy.
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Fred said, well, she's all depressed.
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Go out in the woods, you step off the
trail and you die.
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Hello.
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I've explored what led Maura to take off
that day.
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I asked her if everything was okay and
it sounded like she was crying.
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I think she was running from the men in
her life.
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I thought we were really close, but
everyone's got their secrets.
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The Murray family and others.
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Blame law enforcement.
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Their guy on the scene of a missing girl
that hasn't been seen in 13 years. What
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did you do, mister?
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Do you wish you had gone back?
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Sometimes I think that I may have
disappeared too if I did.
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But after unprecedented access to the
investigation, we didn't find a
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conspiracy. What, the local police did
something to Maura Murray?
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What is that based on?
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Which leads Art and I to a final
conclusion.
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The most likely scenario is that she got
into a car with somebody and was met
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with foul play.
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She was murdered.
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But who did it?
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And why?
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I mean, more than likely, it's human
blood if it's up here in this room.
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Could this house hold the key?
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We have a house searched by canines, and
they were getting a hit in this closet.
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Well, there could be something there.
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Really? The phenol saline test is a
color -based test, so you'll be able to
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a really bright pink color develop.
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If blood is present.
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We're testing evidence from a house
where it's rumored Maura was murdered.
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This is huge. This is all that is left
of the house.
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Maura's father, Fred, acquired a bloody
knife from the A -frame house. A knife,
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he was told, might have been used in
Maura's murder.
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The police accepted the knife.
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but won't tell us if they've tested it.
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These wood chips are the next best
thing, because the blood is from the
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alleged incident.
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If the Q -tip turns pink, it means we
have a positive for blood, either animal
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or human.
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And if it's human blood, the answer
could lead to solving Maura's
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I do see some faint color showing up,
but it's extremely faint.
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I'm actually encouraged to see even a
slight reaction.
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So what is the best thing we should do
right now with the wood chip?
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I think the best move forward is to go
ahead and send it to DNA.
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As we wait for a lab to tell us if it's
human blood on the chip and if the blood
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is Maura's,
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I think about everything we've done, the
theories we've debunked, and the many
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people we've spoken with.
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To be honest, it feels in many ways like
we've hit a roadblock, or worse, that
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we have nothing left.
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And if we have nothing left, and nothing
left to lose, why not take a shot on
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something controversial?
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Medium Allison Dubois has been helping
solve crimes for over 20 years.
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She's worked with police departments in
Arizona as well as the Texas Rangers.
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She's even had a TV series made based on
her life experiences.
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It's called Medium.
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Art and I have invited her to New
Hampshire.
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Hi. Hi.
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Maggie, nice to meet you. Hi, Allison.
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Hi, Allison. Art Roderick, good to meet
you. Thanks for coming in.
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We haven't told Allison anything about
this case.
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She only knew she was flying into
Manchester, New Hampshire, and that the
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was about a missing woman, nothing more.
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So your process is you know nothing
about this case at all. I know nothing
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this case. If I knew something about it,
I actually couldn't work it, because
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otherwise it taints.
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What I get when I go to a crime scene
and I really want to go off of nothing
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just go off of my impressions.
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And then I convey that information to
you. And then you ask me either to take
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further or let's go down this road.
Let's look at that. And then I go there.
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So I like to start with a wave of
nothing.
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So it's pure.
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What do you need from us? How do you
want to start?
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Photograph. Sure. And name.
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This is Maura Murray.
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And the month and day she was born? She
was born May 4th. Okay.
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I know that this process seems strange
to people. I have to put pencil to paper
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for it to, like, click with me.
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So, okay.
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One of the things about this young
woman, she wouldn't stay away
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willingly.
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Like she wouldn't not come back.
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Do you sense that she's still alive?
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How is this going to be aired for the
parents?
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My sense is that she's not alive.
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Do you feel anything? Normally she
wouldn't like.
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get into a car with somebody that she
just met or that she didn't know that
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well. But you say vehicle. You said a
car.
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Tell me about it.
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I just kept seeing a car as being a part
of, like, maybe she took a ride from
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him. I did get the sense that someone
she knows is either involved or
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knows the person who she was last with.
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Because her friends seem to be key to
me. It's almost like some of them know
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pieces of information that they haven't
shared because they don't think it's
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important or they're not putting it
together.
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There are more than a couple people that
know what happened to her. If it was
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one person that initially removed her,
there were other accomplices that helped
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cover up some of the elements of this
crime.
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So that's what I would be looking at,
people that will connect you.
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To him.
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You said to him.
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Yeah, it almost feels like a guy who
would be unassuming, like he could smile
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you and you'd trust him. Does she know
that person?
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It feels like she had seen him before or
met him before, but they weren't,
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like, close.
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I have to reemphasize that Allison told
us she knew nothing about this case.
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prior to coming here today.
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So if she is actually connecting the
dots, it's kind of freaky.
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A car, the idea that Maura got a ride
with someone she knew, it all links to
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possibility of a tandem driver, but not
in the way we originally explored.
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Where we once considered that a tandem
driver helped Maura escape her life,
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version shows a person or people taking
her life.
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He has a predatory element to him, more
of like Ted Bundy.
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He'd be somebody that you would assume
could never do that because they
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have to because they're charming, you
know.
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So you mentioned Ted Bundy. This sounds
like a serial killer.
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She wouldn't have been the only victim
that he had.
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This isn't a one -time thing.
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This idea of a serial killer makes me
think back to Breonna Maitland.
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a young woman who went missing around
the same time as Maura.
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Do you know why she was in this area?
Can you feel why she was up here? I have
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to go to the place to pull that
information.
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Are we going to go to the last place she
was seen today as well?
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Absolutely. Let's go.
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This is a solvable case.
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This doesn't have to stay cold.
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Sometimes it's a timing issue.
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Maybe it's time for this to come
together.
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The dots are going to be connected in
this case.
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The
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dots
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are going to be connected in this case.
It's solvable.
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This is a solvable case.
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This doesn't have to stay cold.
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We're with medium Allison Dubois.
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Do you know why she was in this area?
Can you feel why? I have to go to the
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place to pull that information.
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As we head to the crash site, Allison
claims she's receiving impressions from
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Maura, who she says is no longer alive.
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Allison is relaying these impressions to
us.
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She was like her dad because she was
like a daddy's girl. They both, like,
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anybody the shirt off their back or
just, like, salt of the earth nice
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Anything about any other family members?
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I don't know why the mom's being shown
as removed.
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So she's just showing her mom as
removed.
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You mean removed like...
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Sometimes it's that they pass, or
sometimes it's that they're emotionally
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disconnected and they're not feeling it.
It's like they're dead inside.
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Allison says she didn't know a single
aspect of Maura's story before she flew
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here to New Hampshire today.
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So if she's telling the truth, there
would be no way for her to know that
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Maura's mother died, unless she's either
guessing or channeling Maura as she
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claims.
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I feel really sick here, and initially I
wanted to think that she got
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in the car willingly, but it doesn't
feel willingly.
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It doesn't feel amicable here, or I
wouldn't feel as sick as I feel right
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So that's important.
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I mean, you said she knew this
individual, possibly met him before.
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Casually. But he turned on her.
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You know, it's like he could be charming
at first, but then turn on you. Is
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there a bar in town that would have been
there that they could have stopped at
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or that they would have eaten at? We
questioned that. Yeah.
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Because that feels really important to
me.
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The idea that Maura stopped to meet up
with someone she knew prior to her
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accident is something Art and I have
been debating since we started this
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investigation.
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It's one of the possible reasons we
think her journey took one hour longer
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ours.
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It feels like he said he was taking her
somewhere that there were going to be
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other people and they weren't there. And
then she started to get afraid where
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he's like, no, no, no, just go a little
further, go a little further, you know.
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And it just turned into something more,
something bad.
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What's his intention to hurt her?
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He does have a rapist energy to him. It
just feels like this was taken too far
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because she fought him.
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And also that she was going to tell the
people that she knew that were connected
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to him. And he didn't want that. So it
feels like it was something that may
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been more date rapey gone wrong.
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To me, the friend group's the key to
this.
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And the girls, like, it feels like there
were two female best friends or, like,
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two females that were really close to
her. And they didn't do anything wrong,
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but they do know that some of the males
around them are a little nefarious or
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able to keep secrets for each other.
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Could the friends Allison is talking
about be Maura's friends from UMass?
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We know Maura went to a dorm party with
her close friend Kate and another
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girlfriend two nights before she left
town.
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Could friends from this party have
driven with Maura up to New Hampshire?
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And could something have gone wrong in
the process?
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We need to revisit that night.
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It feels like he had friends that helped
him get rid of whatever he needed to
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get rid of.
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But also, you're probably going to find
out that those three boys, two of them
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may have been brothers, that would bring
additional vehicles.
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And then that makes sense how she ended
up on a different road in a different
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car because they would have been
following her there or with one of the
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the car with her and the other one's
following.
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Allison's mention of three males stands
out.
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Is she seeing three guys from the dorm
party at UMass?
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Or is her vision three local men, which
lines up with a rumor people in town
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have told me about?
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There was a story about some young men
who worked at the ski area over in Loon
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that lived and would have driven by that
site on the way to work that didn't
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show up for work that night.
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It's unclear which set of men Allison is
seeing.
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Either way, if Maura fell victim to foul
play by three men, I wonder if the
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medium has any idea where Maura might
be.
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Without her body, Maura is still just a
missing person in the eyes of the law.
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She referenced a bridge being important,
so I don't know how many bridges they
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have in this area.
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So it's what just feels like where the
evidence is, I'll say,
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is just outside of where they were
looking. Like, it's not much further
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where they were looking.
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But you think that her body is nearby?
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Mm -hmm.
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It's going to be a street that's more of
a dead end where only locals go.
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And only locals go there to drink or to
get in trouble.
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In general, I'm skeptical about
psychics.
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But I'm impressed with some of the
detail Allison provided.
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I mean, some of the stuff she said was
just flat out freaky.
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Yeah. I think talking to Kate, if ever
we can get her.
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I keep coming back to the thing that
clicked with me is the three. The three
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guys. Three guys.
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Possibly two brothers that knew this
area that had a fight with her in the
231
00:15:49,370 --> 00:15:50,370
around here somewhere.
232
00:15:51,150 --> 00:15:54,450
There's a bridge nearby. There's a dead
end road that he took her down.
233
00:15:54,750 --> 00:15:58,190
I mean, it's going to be hard to
pinpoint that, but those are pretty
234
00:15:58,190 --> 00:16:03,830
facts that if we ever get to a location
like that, we should contact her.
235
00:16:04,230 --> 00:16:05,770
A location at a bridge.
236
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:11,860
Near the accident site, but just outside
the search zone. A dead end where
237
00:16:11,860 --> 00:16:12,860
locals go and drink.
238
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,040
This is what we need to find.
239
00:16:22,180 --> 00:16:28,800
Our meeting with medium Alison Dubois
was interesting.
240
00:16:29,420 --> 00:16:33,920
She made some strong correlations to a
few of the theories Art and I have been
241
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:38,900
tracking. Her friends seem to be key to
me. It's almost like some of them know
242
00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:43,320
pieces of information that they haven't
shared because they don't think it's
243
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,900
important or they're not putting it
together.
244
00:16:46,180 --> 00:16:50,480
She referenced a bridge being important,
so I don't know how many bridges they
245
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:51,480
have in this area.
246
00:16:52,420 --> 00:16:56,460
In the weeks since we met her, as the
snow in the North Country melts winter
247
00:16:56,460 --> 00:17:01,140
away, Art and I feel compelled to take a
deeper look at some of what Allison
248
00:17:01,140 --> 00:17:02,140
shared.
249
00:17:03,690 --> 00:17:08,450
We've been talking to locals and
researching bridges that fit Allison's
250
00:17:08,450 --> 00:17:13,609
for where Maura's body or evidence of
her disappearance may have been dropped.
251
00:17:17,369 --> 00:17:22,329
Meanwhile, I've called Maura's best
friend from UMass, Kate, countless
252
00:17:23,130 --> 00:17:25,530
She was with Maura at the dorm party.
253
00:17:25,730 --> 00:17:30,950
If anyone would know something, it's
her. But she never picks up.
254
00:17:32,140 --> 00:17:35,820
I'm trying one last time at her house in
person.
255
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:41,520
Hi, Kate. This is Maggie Freeling
calling again. I am in the area where
256
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,260
live, so if you can call me back, I
would appreciate it. Thanks.
257
00:17:47,940 --> 00:17:51,940
With nothing from Kate, I'll revisit the
potential drop sites.
258
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,080
Although they may be a long shot, it
feels like I should.
259
00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,820
Art and I have narrowed the search to
three bridges.
260
00:18:00,330 --> 00:18:05,990
that fit within Allison's description,
at a dead end, by a bridge where kids
261
00:18:05,990 --> 00:18:08,790
party, just outside the search zone.
262
00:18:10,050 --> 00:18:13,090
We've invited the medium back to the
region to check them out.
263
00:18:15,850 --> 00:18:19,050
So, Allison, could you tell us just a
little bit about your process? When we
264
00:18:19,050 --> 00:18:20,210
there, you know what you're going to do.
265
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:24,990
Usually I'll at least get an impression
or a visual blast through my head of
266
00:18:24,990 --> 00:18:26,290
something that happened there.
267
00:18:27,390 --> 00:18:31,970
Usually a death will leave an indelible
mark, and even though it's been 13
268
00:18:31,970 --> 00:18:36,550
years, there'd be a trace of something,
so I'm hoping that this is the case
269
00:18:36,550 --> 00:18:37,550
here.
270
00:18:39,130 --> 00:18:42,130
Maura's crash occurred on Route 112 in
Woodsville.
271
00:18:42,890 --> 00:18:46,530
The official search for her extended in
a 12 -mile radius.
272
00:18:47,250 --> 00:18:52,590
Art and I have found three bridges just
beyond the search area, all along Route
273
00:18:52,590 --> 00:18:55,490
112, and all fitting Allison's criteria.
274
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:07,790
A little bit of a creep factor here.
275
00:19:07,990 --> 00:19:11,370
Yeah, it's creepy, but it just doesn't
feel like murder, and I'm just not
276
00:19:11,370 --> 00:19:12,510
getting that impression here.
277
00:19:14,010 --> 00:19:15,010
Okay.
278
00:19:15,370 --> 00:19:16,490
We've got some other spots.
279
00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:24,650
No fire, no alcohol, no camping. Wow,
this is definitely a party spot. Yeah,
280
00:19:24,650 --> 00:19:25,710
this is a party spot.
281
00:19:31,030 --> 00:19:36,400
What I can say is, if I'm seeing the
bridge, I'm seeing it from her eyes.
282
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,280
So this is not where she was killed.
283
00:19:40,380 --> 00:19:43,320
Okay. Because this is not what she would
have seen.
284
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,480
How far away was she from it?
285
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,220
Does it seem like it was close, like she
was under it?
286
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,820
Not under it. Far enough away that she
could see it in its entirety.
287
00:19:53,860 --> 00:19:58,560
Is where she was killed close to where
her body might have been dumped?
288
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:01,400
Yes.
289
00:20:01,860 --> 00:20:02,860
Yes.
290
00:20:04,750 --> 00:20:06,710
Two bridges down, one to go.
291
00:20:07,810 --> 00:20:10,010
This last bridge is our most hopeful.
292
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:13,730
It's closest to the craft site.
293
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:20,510
Well, this is a dump site, for sure.
294
00:20:20,790 --> 00:20:21,790
I agree.
295
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:23,850
It's definitely deeper here.
296
00:20:25,150 --> 00:20:28,550
Well, and that's more what I'm looking
for, where it's deep to where she
297
00:20:28,550 --> 00:20:31,790
wouldn't necessarily get caught up on
shallow rocks. There'd be a way to keep
298
00:20:31,790 --> 00:20:33,490
flowing downriver.
299
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,320
This is more like what I was seeing. The
difference, I guess, would be that the
300
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,840
top of the bridge didn't look so
rounded.
301
00:20:42,220 --> 00:20:44,980
So it was more of a straight angle as
opposed to arched.
302
00:20:45,340 --> 00:20:48,160
More of a straight angle, the way I saw
it. Okay.
303
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,080
You know, from the places we've brought
you, I mean, what do you think?
304
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,100
I mean, I'm just not feeling anything.
305
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:57,240
Right.
306
00:20:58,300 --> 00:21:02,240
Could Allison's impressions have been
beyond the drop sites we researched?
307
00:21:02,940 --> 00:21:03,940
Absolutely.
308
00:21:05,230 --> 00:21:09,170
There are hundreds of bridges branching
further out into the state.
309
00:21:10,030 --> 00:21:15,170
What's more, this idea that maybe three
men were somehow involved with Maura
310
00:21:15,170 --> 00:21:16,470
hasn't panned out.
311
00:21:17,790 --> 00:21:22,950
We haven't spoken to Kate or anyone who
was at that dorm party at UMass.
312
00:21:23,610 --> 00:21:29,050
And Art and I haven't been able to
identify the three men who we call
313
00:21:29,050 --> 00:21:30,009
Mountain Three.
314
00:21:30,010 --> 00:21:34,070
In fact, police have never officially
named them suspects.
315
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,260
Which means we're pretty much out of
leads.
316
00:21:39,140 --> 00:21:40,920
There is one thing hanging, though.
317
00:21:43,540 --> 00:21:48,080
The coordinates that Tim and Lance told
me about when I first interviewed them.
318
00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:53,440
So you do a map search, you find the
coordinates. It's White Mountains, it's
319
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:58,180
Mount Kerrigan. Good conditions there
and back. Without making any stops, it's
320
00:21:58,180 --> 00:22:01,000
like a seven and a half hour. Full day.
Like a full day hike.
321
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,440
Seven plus hours into the wilderness?
322
00:22:04,270 --> 00:22:09,070
Would someone really go through the
effort of taking Maura up there, dead or
323
00:22:09,070 --> 00:22:10,070
alive?
324
00:22:10,150 --> 00:22:16,130
It's a really creepy story why this
coordinates is a thing in this case.
325
00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:21,910
James Renner was emailed these
coordinates a few years ago, said stop
326
00:22:22,090 --> 00:22:27,130
and the sender was, it was like Ray
Ramay, but if you rearrange the letters,
327
00:22:27,130 --> 00:22:28,130
spells Maura Murray.
328
00:22:28,330 --> 00:22:31,390
Would it be possible for somebody to
bring a body up there?
329
00:22:31,610 --> 00:22:35,390
It's just something that we know is
probably a wild goose chase, but it's
330
00:22:35,390 --> 00:22:37,030
something that you really need to check
off the list.
331
00:22:38,090 --> 00:22:39,090
So they tried.
332
00:22:39,570 --> 00:22:43,750
Tim and Lance booked a room in nearby
Lincoln, New Hampshire, ready to make
333
00:22:43,750 --> 00:22:44,750
trek.
334
00:22:44,830 --> 00:22:47,050
And that's when the trouble started.
335
00:22:48,270 --> 00:22:49,850
We got tweeted a penny.
336
00:22:50,550 --> 00:22:53,930
The year of the penny was 1982, which is
Maura's birth year.
337
00:22:55,180 --> 00:22:58,880
The tweeter was like a skull and
crossbones logo.
338
00:22:59,420 --> 00:23:02,760
And the more we looked at it, the more
it started to come together. This was
339
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:07,060
day before we were going to say it.
Lincoln is on the penny, and the year on
340
00:23:07,060 --> 00:23:08,460
penny was Moore's birthday.
341
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:09,680
Which is creepy.
342
00:23:09,740 --> 00:23:13,960
Tim and Lance felt the tweet was
bizarre, but it wasn't cause for
343
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,480
Yet as they arrived in Lincoln, they
received more strange emails.
344
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:20,940
He's getting closer to threatening.
345
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:27,990
At one point he says to us, Tommy Conrad
was assassinated on his mother's front
346
00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:30,310
lawn for not minding your own goddamn
business.
347
00:23:30,730 --> 00:23:36,010
Who was Tommy Conrad? Tommy Conrad is
someone who was shot on his mom's lawn
348
00:23:36,010 --> 00:23:39,110
2005. From the area? Yes, in Haverhill.
349
00:23:39,810 --> 00:23:41,010
It's unsolved still.
350
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,020
Did you guys track that email? Were you
able to track the email? I had a co
351
00:23:46,020 --> 00:23:52,860
-worker who was a real clever IT guy,
and I took the emails to him, and he
352
00:23:52,860 --> 00:23:56,500
back to me, and he was like, whoever did
this knows what they're doing. It's
353
00:23:56,500 --> 00:23:59,640
buried. Buried. It's buried and made to
look like a bot.
354
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:06,140
The tweet, the threat, the mention of an
unsolved murder in Haverhill, the same
355
00:24:06,140 --> 00:24:11,240
town where Maura disappeared, all of it
put him and Lance on edge.
356
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,460
We were just like, no, this is not worth
it. Because if it's not a body that
357
00:24:16,460 --> 00:24:20,800
we're finding up there, it's probably a
trap, if there's anything. If there's
358
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,120
anything, it's probably a trap.
359
00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:23,360
Sure.
360
00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:27,720
The story of the coordinates would have
ended there.
361
00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:33,860
But a few months went by, and the
podcasters got another bizarre email,
362
00:24:33,860 --> 00:24:35,980
time from someone entirely new.
363
00:24:37,340 --> 00:24:43,040
We were sent photographs from a hiker
who was... hiking up there alone and
364
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:49,880
found ribbons that said RIP Maura Murray
strung around
365
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:55,000
a tree. And we had a Skype call with
her, so she's legit. She seems just like
366
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,000
hiker.
367
00:24:56,740 --> 00:25:02,160
Whoever this person is who sent this
email did go up there. They're not just
368
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,880
sending some random coordinates. I mean,
they went to this location.
369
00:25:05,500 --> 00:25:09,520
Yeah. If anyone was directly involved
with Maura's disappearance, does that
370
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:10,520
anything to do with the coordinates?
371
00:25:10,939 --> 00:25:14,140
there's only one way to find out. You
have to get there. There has to be a
372
00:25:14,140 --> 00:25:17,300
thorough search there, which I don't
believe has ever been done.
373
00:25:17,580 --> 00:25:21,240
There was just some random coordinates,
I think, maybe not so much, but we know
374
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,640
someone did go through the effort of
going up there, so what else could they
375
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:25,199
have done?
376
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:26,900
And I think that needs to be checked
out.
377
00:25:29,300 --> 00:25:33,880
I've been focusing on this case for
close to six months, trying to tie leads
378
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,120
together and find out what ultimately
happened to Maura Murray.
379
00:25:37,740 --> 00:25:39,140
What if this person...
380
00:25:39,530 --> 00:25:45,370
who has been emailing Kim and Lance, is
the same person or people Allison saw
381
00:25:45,370 --> 00:25:46,770
when she channeled Maura.
382
00:25:47,710 --> 00:25:52,350
The possible connection reminds me I've
come too far to just leave this lead
383
00:25:52,350 --> 00:25:53,350
hanging.
384
00:25:53,550 --> 00:25:58,770
Plus, we have the resources Kim, Lance,
and Renner never had.
385
00:26:00,490 --> 00:26:05,730
If anything happens to us, we'll have
cameras recording it all for the police
386
00:26:05,730 --> 00:26:07,190
consult. All right, let's go.
387
00:26:12,460 --> 00:26:18,820
One week later, after hiring a local
mountaineering guide, it's time to make
388
00:26:18,820 --> 00:26:19,820
hike.
389
00:26:20,060 --> 00:26:26,280
But as we set out with the podcasters,
something bizarre happens.
390
00:26:28,020 --> 00:26:31,160
We received another email from the same
person.
391
00:26:31,420 --> 00:26:36,860
Really? It says, stop looking again at
the subject line. It says, since Renner
392
00:26:36,860 --> 00:26:41,160
didn't get it back in 2014, maybe
spelling it out will help. Good luck.
393
00:26:41,710 --> 00:26:43,170
And then he puts the coordinates again.
394
00:26:43,410 --> 00:26:44,830
Wow. That's bizarre.
395
00:26:45,230 --> 00:26:47,770
All I had to do was think about who knew
we were doing this.
396
00:26:47,970 --> 00:26:50,410
I didn't tell anybody. Tim didn't tell
anybody.
397
00:26:50,830 --> 00:26:53,170
Hell, I didn't even tell my wife I was
doing this.
398
00:26:53,870 --> 00:26:57,850
I'm a little bit in shock over it. What
do you guys make of this? You changed
399
00:26:57,850 --> 00:26:59,550
your passwords and your emails.
400
00:26:59,790 --> 00:27:03,570
I mean, what do you... Is it someone
else? Like, is this a coincidence? Is
401
00:27:03,570 --> 00:27:06,670
someone... No way it can be a
coincidence, my God.
402
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:19,320
You changed your passwords in your
email. Is someone still in your email?
403
00:27:19,740 --> 00:27:24,680
As if there wasn't already enough
intrigue surrounding the coordinates,
404
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,440
Lance receive another mysterious email.
405
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:33,000
It comes on the very same day we're
hiking to the spot where we might find
406
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,160
to Maura's disappearance.
407
00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:37,240
I didn't tell anybody. Tim didn't tell
anybody.
408
00:27:37,860 --> 00:27:40,380
Hell, I didn't even tell my wife I was
doing this.
409
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:42,860
This is definitely weird.
410
00:27:44,110 --> 00:27:48,690
It's obvious that either our email has
been hacked or we're being watched.
411
00:27:49,810 --> 00:27:55,030
It's exactly this kind of thing that
caused him and Lance to call off their
412
00:27:55,030 --> 00:27:56,030
previous search.
413
00:27:56,910 --> 00:27:59,010
What could this person be protecting?
414
00:27:59,530 --> 00:28:00,810
What is up here?
415
00:28:01,630 --> 00:28:03,170
I need to find out.
416
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:17,559
I'm Maggie.
417
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:22,540
Nice to meet you. Dustin Cormier is a
certified mountain rescue and trail
418
00:28:22,940 --> 00:28:24,600
He'll be our escort to the coordinates.
419
00:28:25,140 --> 00:28:31,080
We wanted to come here before. We
attempted it, but we got sufficiently
420
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,900
out. We didn't know if there was a trap
set for us. Yeah.
421
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:35,160
Well,
422
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:39,000
I hope there's no traps. Every time
someone tries to come here, it seems
423
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,240
this mysterious emailer returns.
424
00:28:41,660 --> 00:28:44,500
Huh. Like today. So the guy sent you the
same...
425
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:51,000
coordinates again today yeah it really
is creepy yeah so as far as what we're
426
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,520
looking for it could be anything it
could be an artifact could be i mean i
427
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,780
want to sound like paranoid but i just
keep our eyes peeled for anything along
428
00:28:59,780 --> 00:29:04,400
the way okay if we do come across
anything don't touch it yeah right all
429
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,020
because we might have to make a phone
call and get gotcha law enforcement up
430
00:29:08,020 --> 00:29:12,620
here in case of some type of evidential
nature so all right as we prepare to set
431
00:29:12,620 --> 00:29:17,950
out Lance enters the coordinates into
Dustin's GPS mapping unit. This
432
00:29:17,950 --> 00:29:23,410
destination is an especially dense part
of the White Mountains, a virgin forest
433
00:29:23,410 --> 00:29:26,250
virtually untouched through the
centuries.
434
00:29:26,890 --> 00:29:31,210
Our target location is some 48 -mile
Tremoras crash site.
435
00:29:31,630 --> 00:29:36,650
It's on the backside of Mount Kerrigan's
peak, a nearly 15 -mile round -trip
436
00:29:36,650 --> 00:29:40,010
hike with 6 ,000 feet of elevation
change.
437
00:29:40,390 --> 00:29:42,090
All right, let's do it.
438
00:29:43,180 --> 00:29:45,720
And with that, we're off.
439
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:55,440
One of the emails that we got, the
second email, was a rhyme. It said,
440
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,020
year ago, I told you where. Look again,
she is still there.
441
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:00,320
Huh?
442
00:30:01,540 --> 00:30:06,700
So we've just been kind of analyzing the
process of bringing a body to these
443
00:30:06,700 --> 00:30:07,700
coordinates.
444
00:30:08,460 --> 00:30:10,220
What's the trail like in the winter?
445
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:17,780
This would be, it'd just be like four
feet of deep layered snow.
446
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,120
Okay. Do people snowmobile up here?
447
00:30:21,460 --> 00:30:24,580
No, this is wilderness, so you can't
even bike.
448
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,940
Bringing a body up here is like a
challenge.
449
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,080
Could you bring packing, like a horse or
a mule up here?
450
00:30:31,460 --> 00:30:33,260
I've never seen it, but. Okay.
451
00:30:34,460 --> 00:30:38,120
I mean, you could do it. You could
snowshoe in. Should you put it on like a
452
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:39,400
and drag it? Yeah.
453
00:30:40,650 --> 00:30:42,230
If the person's still alive.
454
00:30:43,690 --> 00:30:47,150
Art just had a good point. If the
person's still alive, you're hiking in
455
00:30:47,150 --> 00:30:50,790
somebody. So she could have walked there
on her own and then gotten killed.
456
00:30:53,050 --> 00:30:55,170
Does anyone else feel like we're being
watched?
457
00:30:55,830 --> 00:30:56,830
Totally.
458
00:30:57,190 --> 00:30:58,930
It's just super creepy.
459
00:31:02,190 --> 00:31:05,450
We're right now at one hour and 17
minutes as we left.
460
00:31:05,850 --> 00:31:12,130
the beginning of the river road so we've
come 1 .7 miles let's do it so we're
461
00:31:12,130 --> 00:31:14,370
going up and over yeah okay cool
462
00:31:14,370 --> 00:31:29,310
all
463
00:31:29,310 --> 00:31:36,050
right this is the summit came up signal
ridge trail We're going to head down
464
00:31:36,050 --> 00:31:38,390
Desolation Trail, which is right there.
It's super steep.
465
00:31:38,850 --> 00:31:44,130
It's like 1 ,700 feet down to about
where our GPS coordinates are.
466
00:31:44,510 --> 00:31:48,850
A little ways into the woods once we get
there, but we're getting close.
467
00:31:49,150 --> 00:31:53,730
Okay. And there might be a chance of
the... If this is someone playing a sick
468
00:31:53,730 --> 00:31:57,370
joke, then we do have to be careful.
Watch our step out there.
469
00:32:19,050 --> 00:32:23,010
All right, guys, looks like we're
getting pretty close to where we leave
470
00:32:23,010 --> 00:32:24,010
trail.
471
00:32:24,170 --> 00:32:26,350
It's going to be pretty nasty in the
woods.
472
00:32:28,630 --> 00:32:33,550
After seven miles of trekking into the
wilderness, we're about to go off the
473
00:32:33,550 --> 00:32:39,610
trail into deeper woods with more
treacherous terrain to the exact
474
00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:41,330
That's some pretty thick woods.
475
00:32:41,570 --> 00:32:45,170
So when we do go in there, what are we
looking for?
476
00:32:46,430 --> 00:32:47,430
Traps?
477
00:32:47,870 --> 00:32:49,410
Any type of human remains?
478
00:32:49,790 --> 00:32:54,530
Articles of clothes, jewelry, anything
out of place.
479
00:32:55,330 --> 00:32:59,930
I mean, who knows? But yeah, keep your
eyes peeled for anything that might harm
480
00:32:59,930 --> 00:33:00,909
you.
481
00:33:00,910 --> 00:33:03,670
Let's do it. I'll start it and you guys
just follow me.
482
00:33:06,350 --> 00:33:07,350
It's dense.
483
00:33:07,850 --> 00:33:08,850
This is unreal.
484
00:33:09,890 --> 00:33:10,890
Holy crap.
485
00:33:11,650 --> 00:33:13,790
This is really one of the craziest days
of my life.
486
00:33:14,570 --> 00:33:15,529
You okay?
487
00:33:15,530 --> 00:33:17,020
Yeah. How far?
488
00:33:17,220 --> 00:33:18,300
Halfway. Halfway. Ow!
489
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:20,780
Looks like you cleared up a little bit
right there.
490
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,220
This is pretty much it.
491
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:31,060
So, I don't know. It's going to be hard
to find anything, but I think we just
492
00:33:31,060 --> 00:33:32,800
look and it's like a 30 -foot block.
493
00:33:33,740 --> 00:33:35,220
We've made it to the coordinates.
494
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:41,960
Our plan now is to search the immediate
area for any clues or anything out of
495
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:42,960
the ordinary.
496
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,100
What is that right there?
497
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:01,520
Where?
498
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:02,859
What'd you find?
499
00:34:02,860 --> 00:34:04,280
Something there. Hold on.
500
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:05,960
Right there.
501
00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:08,080
Here? Lance, you making the doubt?
502
00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:09,300
Can you see it?
503
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:10,500
I think I see it.
504
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:13,259
Hold on.
505
00:34:13,260 --> 00:34:14,260
Nah.
506
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:15,480
Nah. Here?
507
00:34:16,860 --> 00:34:17,860
Oh, my God.
508
00:34:19,260 --> 00:34:21,460
There's a bright green something down
there.
509
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:24,940
Nah, it's nothing. It's just a tree.
510
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:27,600
Find anything?
511
00:34:29,710 --> 00:34:34,489
No. No, there's nothing down here.
There's not even a real clearing.
512
00:34:35,010 --> 00:34:36,030
There's no evidence.
513
00:34:37,810 --> 00:34:38,810
No trap.
514
00:34:40,170 --> 00:34:41,170
No Maura.
515
00:34:46,670 --> 00:34:49,870
The coordinates were one of our last
roads to travel down.
516
00:34:53,230 --> 00:34:57,190
Although we feel like we've closed the
lid on a number of theories, pregnancy,
517
00:34:58,380 --> 00:35:03,420
police conspiracy, car sabotage, running
away.
518
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,060
We've come up empty -handed at
practically every turn.
519
00:35:09,820 --> 00:35:14,400
It's clear we've exhausted what we can
do without the information the police
520
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,240
hold dear and keep secret.
521
00:35:21,580 --> 00:35:23,460
There is one last thing, though.
522
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,210
The DNA results of the wood chips is
back from the lab.
523
00:35:29,050 --> 00:35:33,570
We're meeting with Dr. Lori Baker, an
anthropology professor at Baylor
524
00:35:33,570 --> 00:35:37,870
University who specializes in forensic
analysis of human remains.
525
00:35:39,370 --> 00:35:41,730
She'll interpret the results of the test
for us.
526
00:35:42,070 --> 00:35:44,570
Well, I have the DNA results.
527
00:35:44,910 --> 00:35:48,270
Do you want me to walk you through a
little bit about how this was done? Yes.
528
00:35:48,290 --> 00:35:53,710
Absolutely. So the DNA tests were done
by swabbing the blood samples, and it
529
00:35:53,710 --> 00:35:56,710
went through a series of trying to get
rid of the inhibitors that would have
530
00:35:56,710 --> 00:36:00,850
been found in the wood and so forth, and
we were able to get some interesting
531
00:36:00,850 --> 00:36:01,850
results.
532
00:36:02,190 --> 00:36:06,030
This is definitely blood that was on
these wood chips.
533
00:36:06,510 --> 00:36:08,270
Absolutely positive for blood.
534
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:12,250
Is it human or animal?
535
00:36:12,850 --> 00:36:18,060
Human. Wow, you have the DNA from
humans, and you actually have the DNA
536
00:36:18,060 --> 00:36:19,060
individuals.
537
00:36:21,780 --> 00:36:25,040
Wow, I didn't think we were going to get
anything, actually.
538
00:36:25,420 --> 00:36:28,200
Did the police know that you tested the
sample?
539
00:36:28,420 --> 00:36:30,800
Because I think you're going to want to
share this with them.
540
00:36:31,380 --> 00:36:34,020
Why? Is one Maura?
541
00:36:36,260 --> 00:36:38,880
There is a possibility that this could
be Maura.
542
00:36:39,460 --> 00:36:40,460
Wow.
543
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:41,940
Would you like me to show you?
544
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:43,200
Yes.
545
00:36:44,620 --> 00:36:49,520
All right, so in the sample that was
taken, there were actually two
546
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:55,240
And one of those individuals happened to
be male. What we cannot tell is if the
547
00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:56,940
other profile is a female.
548
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,760
We're not able to take these samples and
separate them out, so we're not able to
549
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,760
see which sample came from which
individual.
550
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:11,060
So what we would have to do is take
Mara's DNA and compare it to this
551
00:37:12,110 --> 00:37:17,690
So the first step would be to find out,
does her DNA match any of those numbers
552
00:37:17,690 --> 00:37:22,410
on that sheet? Right, and especially
this particular number where we have a
553
00:37:22,410 --> 00:37:23,450
profile. Okay.
554
00:37:23,810 --> 00:37:26,170
And if it doesn't, it's not.
555
00:37:26,430 --> 00:37:33,270
The state of New Hampshire has Maura's
DNA on file, so Art and I are going to
556
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:35,130
share the results with them right away.
557
00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:44,480
So Chuck West just called me, and I was
waiting for you to get here before I
558
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,040
called him back to find out what
information he's got.
559
00:37:47,340 --> 00:37:48,340
Let's call him.
560
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:49,440
Hey,
561
00:37:51,820 --> 00:37:53,280
Chuck, it's Art Roderick. How you doing?
562
00:37:54,740 --> 00:37:55,740
No problem.
563
00:37:56,900 --> 00:38:02,420
Chuck West is part of New Hampshire's
cold case unit and is one of the
564
00:38:02,420 --> 00:38:04,140
heading up Maura Murray's case.
565
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,740
All right, Chuck. Thanks, buddy. I'll
talk to you soon.
566
00:38:09,260 --> 00:38:10,260
What did he say?
567
00:38:10,670 --> 00:38:11,670
Take a look.
568
00:38:16,110 --> 00:38:17,110
Still confused.
569
00:38:17,190 --> 00:38:19,670
Yeah, I think this is something the
whole family should hear.
570
00:38:20,410 --> 00:38:21,410
Let's get them together.
571
00:38:21,550 --> 00:38:22,550
Yeah.
572
00:38:37,750 --> 00:38:38,750
Hi, Fred.
573
00:38:50,100 --> 00:38:55,220
Chuck West of New Hampshire's cold case
unit told us that since the sample of
574
00:38:55,220 --> 00:39:00,200
blood taken from the wood chips is so
degraded and the chain of custody so
575
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:05,140
unclear that it would be impossible for
them to identify if it's more as blood.
576
00:39:05,780 --> 00:39:08,220
It could literally be the blood of
almost anyone.
577
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,360
and so it would never be admissible in
court.
578
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:17,100
But Chuck did give us other information
that is encouraging.
579
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:24,840
So basically what has happened is since
we have started working on this, the
580
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,340
state police are looking into, or if you
want to say reopening the case. So
581
00:39:29,340 --> 00:39:31,520
they're going back and re -interviewing
everybody.
582
00:39:31,820 --> 00:39:34,100
They've established three task forces.
583
00:39:34,460 --> 00:39:38,990
They're going back to the very
beginning, looking at all the forensics,
584
00:39:38,990 --> 00:39:43,990
examining everything from day one on.
They've even gone getting a yellow
585
00:39:44,270 --> 00:39:49,590
It's an Interpol notice, and it blasted
out to 190 countries with all the
586
00:39:49,590 --> 00:39:55,210
information on Maura, her DNA, and
they're checking all their records in
587
00:39:55,210 --> 00:39:58,470
she did go across the Canadian border.
588
00:39:59,410 --> 00:40:02,990
Law enforcement's re -engagement in
Maura's case is promising.
589
00:40:03,610 --> 00:40:08,030
The state has even agreed to give us a
piece of evidence that they've never
590
00:40:08,030 --> 00:40:09,490
before released publicly.
591
00:40:09,970 --> 00:40:11,390
The ATM footage.
592
00:40:13,330 --> 00:40:15,730
Maura's family has been fighting for
this.
593
00:40:17,290 --> 00:40:18,310
Thirteen years.
594
00:40:18,990 --> 00:40:20,190
I know.
595
00:40:20,830 --> 00:40:24,690
It's a series of shots taken every three
or four seconds.
596
00:40:25,170 --> 00:40:27,170
So it's not like an actual video.
597
00:40:28,510 --> 00:40:29,510
Right.
598
00:40:40,970 --> 00:40:41,970
That's Mara.
599
00:40:45,250 --> 00:40:47,290
Do you recognize that jacket, though?
600
00:40:49,050 --> 00:40:50,050
I know.
601
00:40:50,290 --> 00:40:53,950
Yeah, I don't either. I don't need to.
That's Mara. Oh, I know. That's Mara.
602
00:41:05,470 --> 00:41:08,870
I started this project wanting to find
justice for Maura.
603
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,940
One example of the 70 ,000 missing women
in the United States.
604
00:41:16,700 --> 00:41:21,920
Yet while Art and I haven't learned what
ultimately happened to her, I have come
605
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:23,100
to realize a few things.
606
00:41:23,900 --> 00:41:29,540
So many people are quick to dismiss
these 70 ,000 missing women as runaways.
607
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:34,740
They are often considered overly
emotional, thought of as having no other
608
00:41:34,740 --> 00:41:38,140
handle their so -called bad day than to
leave it all behind.
609
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:43,720
But after almost a year of connecting
with people in Maura's life, I feel
610
00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:46,680
confident that Maura didn't willingly
walk away.
611
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,700
There's nothing in her history that
hints that she would leave her family
612
00:41:51,700 --> 00:41:52,700
forever.
613
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:58,680
Something bad happened to her, and it's
possible she's no longer alive.
614
00:42:00,340 --> 00:42:05,360
I hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me
I'm not.
615
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:12,140
Maybe now, with the police digging back
in, they'll go over what Art and I found
616
00:42:12,140 --> 00:42:14,940
and compare it to information they keep
private.
617
00:42:17,340 --> 00:42:22,760
Or maybe someone will see this series
and finally reach out to law enforcement
618
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,340
with the tip they have been waiting for.
619
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,960
I hope our quest for answers will
produce results.
620
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:35,760
I hope our work gives the Murrays the
break they've been looking for for 13
621
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:36,760
years.
622
00:42:39,820 --> 00:42:44,440
If somebody comes forward, seeing this,
that would be what it takes. Right.
623
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,740
Somebody that nobody knows about. Right.
624
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:48,280
Somebody knows something.
625
00:42:49,580 --> 00:42:53,120
There's no doubt about it. And they've
been afraid to come out for their
626
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:58,000
personal safety, but now that this has
reached the level that it has, maybe
627
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,640
they'll be a little less reluctant to
remain in the shadows.
628
00:43:01,060 --> 00:43:04,820
I think this is all just beginning. I
think there's going to be a lot of
629
00:43:04,820 --> 00:43:07,640
information. I think you guys are going
to get a lot of answers.
630
00:43:08,190 --> 00:43:14,590
Well, it's a direct response to you
folks working on the case, and
631
00:43:14,590 --> 00:43:18,530
we'll be forever in your debt for it.
632
00:43:19,030 --> 00:43:22,450
Something good's going to happen, and I
believe it. And not just because I have
633
00:43:22,450 --> 00:43:26,190
to believe it, but I do believe it. This
is a break we've been looking for for
634
00:43:26,190 --> 00:43:27,190
13 years.
635
00:43:28,270 --> 00:43:31,670
Mara knows that we're pulling out all
the stops.
636
00:43:32,570 --> 00:43:33,570
Come on, kid.
637
00:43:35,570 --> 00:43:36,570
We'll find you.
638
00:43:49,130 --> 00:43:53,950
If you have any information on the
disappearance of Maura Murray, please
639
00:43:53,950 --> 00:43:55,990
New Hampshire's Cold Case Unit.
54279
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