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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,900 All we can do is try to publicize the facts. 2 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,300 Not what the government is saying, but the facts. 3 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,000 And not simply parrot or regurgitate... 4 00:00:30,300 --> 00:00:34,100 what the government's saying, because that's largely bullshit. 5 00:00:38,300 --> 00:00:40,000 lt was the dead of winter. 6 00:00:40,300 --> 00:00:42,900 l don't remember it ever being so cold. 7 00:00:43,100 --> 00:00:45,100 And we were on a mission. 8 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:49,100 A bunch of us had volunteered to drive our good friend to his new home... 9 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,900 the Schuylkill Federal Prison in the middle of Pennsylvania. 10 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,200 He called himself Phiber Optik. 11 00:00:55,300 --> 00:00:59,300 You'd have to look hard to find someone who didn't think he was brilliant. 12 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:02,900 Before we left, we had a night of fun... 13 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,400 in the streets of Philadelphia, in the middle of an ice storm. 14 00:01:07,700 --> 00:01:09,000 Phiber learned by exploring. 15 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:10,600 He was never too busy to explain... 16 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,600 howthings worked to anyone interested. 17 00:01:12,700 --> 00:01:15,500 l think that's what pissed of the authorities the most. 18 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,900 They never tried to prove that Phiber Optik hacked into any computers. 19 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:20,300 They got him for conspiracy... 20 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,300 for talking on a tapped phone line... 21 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:23,800 about howto hack certain sites. 22 00:01:23,900 --> 00:01:25,900 There were people who broke into systems... 23 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,800 and fucked things up, and they never even got arrested. 24 00:01:28,900 --> 00:01:29,900 The feds didn't care. 25 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,300 They wanted to shut down the teachers, the people who didn't knowto keep secrets. 26 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:36,400 There's Bernie S. 27 00:01:36,500 --> 00:01:38,500 He's another guy who loves to explain... 28 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,000 howtechnology works to anyone who's interested. 29 00:01:41,100 --> 00:01:44,900 He didn't know it, but hell was just around the corner waiting for him. 30 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,300 We made one last stop before we dropped Phiber off. 31 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:49,800 lt was a town called Frackville. 32 00:01:49,900 --> 00:01:53,200 We thought it was funny because of a hacker newsletter called Phrack. 33 00:01:53,300 --> 00:01:56,100 We thought it'd make a good picture for the hacker community. 34 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,500 But Bernie had the balls to get a Frackville cop... 35 00:01:58,600 --> 00:01:59,800 to pose with Phiber. 36 00:01:59,900 --> 00:02:01,800 These guys had no clue what was going on... 37 00:02:01,900 --> 00:02:04,100 but they quickly got into the spirit. 38 00:02:07,900 --> 00:02:10,800 lt was the last time we laughed that night. 39 00:02:12,100 --> 00:02:13,800 We drove to the prison. 40 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,300 lt felt like it was 20 degrees below zero. 41 00:02:16,500 --> 00:02:18,400 We didn't know they'd throw him in the hole... 42 00:02:18,500 --> 00:02:21,600 for the entire weekend. Some kind of prison welcoming ceremony. 43 00:02:22,700 --> 00:02:25,000 And like the gullible idiots we were... 44 00:02:25,100 --> 00:02:27,600 we figured we'd have a chance to say goodbye. 45 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:29,700 We didn't. 46 00:02:30,900 --> 00:02:32,500 They grabbed him. 47 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,200 And we had to run out of there to keep them from taking our camera. 48 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,100 Phiber came home 10 months later, a hero. 49 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,600 Everyone knew sending someone like that to prison... 50 00:02:46,700 --> 00:02:48,300 was a big mistake. 51 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,100 After it was over, we were pretty sure it wouldn't happen again. 52 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,300 Were we ever wrong. 53 00:03:20,700 --> 00:03:23,900 Bad boys gone to jail 54 00:03:24,700 --> 00:03:27,900 Bad boys gone to jail 55 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:32,000 Look at you, boy, you've come of age 56 00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:35,900 and now you're going around saying you're a bad boy 57 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,000 You say that you'll never go to jail 58 00:03:40,100 --> 00:03:44,200 'Cause you're so bad and you cannot fail 59 00:03:44,300 --> 00:03:48,100 Oh bad boy Oh rude boy 60 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,900 Oh bad boy Gots to believe me 61 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:57,400 Oh bad boy Here is how you fail 62 00:03:57,500 --> 00:03:59,900 Gots to believe me one time 63 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,200 You went to town just to fool around 64 00:04:04,300 --> 00:04:08,200 You met a girl who was wearing a frown 65 00:04:08,300 --> 00:04:12,000 You going around, boasting, feeling bad 66 00:04:12,100 --> 00:04:14,100 Now you're sitting in jail 67 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,400 don't you feel so sad 68 00:04:16,500 --> 00:04:19,900 This is like the crudest form of communication l've ever had to do. 69 00:04:21,100 --> 00:04:22,600 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. 70 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,300 l just saw something. 71 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,200 Was that you? Well, we can see your hand. 72 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,900 l doubt you can stick your whole head through the window 73 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,300 Splotch your face up against the window 74 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,300 We'll know it's the right one, we can at least zoom in on it. 75 00:04:44,300 --> 00:04:45,200 We'll know it's the right one, we can at least zoom in on it. 76 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,500 Kevin Mitnick, the world's most dangerous computer hacker. 77 00:04:50,100 --> 00:04:53,100 My regret about Cyberpunk is talking about Kevin... 78 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,900 and how he was always eating and how he was overweight. 79 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,100 People have really gotten on my case about that. 80 00:05:00,700 --> 00:05:04,000 Some guy came up to me at anAustin book thing and said: 81 00:05:04,100 --> 00:05:06,700 ''Why did you go on and on about Kevin's weight?'' 82 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:08,200 And he was right. 83 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,600 l did that to the point where it just wasn't tasteful. 84 00:05:12,900 --> 00:05:15,400 Where it was sort of... 85 00:05:15,900 --> 00:05:18,200 just beating an issue that didn't need to be beaten. 86 00:05:18,300 --> 00:05:21,300 For a period after he was arrested, incarcerated... 87 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,000 and released into a halfway house... 88 00:05:23,100 --> 00:05:24,700 l couldn't find a single article... 89 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,500 that talked about him without mentioning his weight. 90 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,500 And the real fascination with Kevin's body... 91 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,500 and its relationship to technology.. 92 00:05:34,700 --> 00:05:37,000 is one of the things that absolutely hooked me. 93 00:05:37,100 --> 00:05:41,500 l found a number of articles in Time, Newsweek, and the New York Times... 94 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,800 written by people like Markoff and Joshua Quittner and so on. 95 00:05:44,900 --> 00:05:47,500 And they would say Kevin was in a halfway house... 96 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:51,300 where he no longer touched a computer, and lost 100 pounds. 97 00:05:51,900 --> 00:05:53,900 As if those two things were connected. 98 00:05:54,300 --> 00:05:56,200 1988, USA Today... 99 00:05:57,500 --> 00:05:59,500 put his picture on the front page... 100 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,600 morphed or superimposed with the image of Darth Vader. 101 00:06:03,700 --> 00:06:07,300 And l thought this is a remarkable combination of two things... 102 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,500 and it's really picking up on the idea of the Dark Side hacker. 103 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,800 lf ever there was someone who fit that description, it was Kevin. 104 00:06:13,900 --> 00:06:17,500 The mention of his name was enough to incur the wrath of the authorities. 105 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,500 Over the years, his reputation grew and so did the falsehoods. 106 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,000 ln numerous articles, Kevin was said to have broken into NORAD... 107 00:06:25,100 --> 00:06:27,000 harassed actress Kristy McNichol... 108 00:06:27,100 --> 00:06:30,400 and turned his friends' home phones into payphones. 109 00:06:31,700 --> 00:06:33,900 His beginning was on ham radio. 110 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,000 And on ham radio, it's a close-knit community. 111 00:06:38,700 --> 00:06:43,600 A couple of dozen people at the most on a particular repeater or channel. 112 00:06:44,100 --> 00:06:47,500 And, you know, they would get into challenges. 113 00:06:48,300 --> 00:06:50,500 And, of course, Mitnick would be the underdog. 114 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,600 ''Let's challenge him, let's do this and that.'' 115 00:06:52,700 --> 00:06:56,300 When he met their challenges, they'd start crying and screaming... 116 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,000 as if they were innocentvictims of Kevin's. 117 00:06:59,100 --> 00:07:01,100 This has been the case throughout. 118 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,500 And then people would start unfairly using... 119 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,600 other contacts that they had. 120 00:07:06,700 --> 00:07:11,200 ln one case there was a lieutenant or commander in the LAPD.... 121 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,400 One ham radio operator who was a friend of his... 122 00:07:15,500 --> 00:07:19,400 got him to write a letter saying Kevin was interfering with LAPD communications. 123 00:07:19,900 --> 00:07:22,600 And all sorts of crazy things in his past. 124 00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:22,800 Cyberpunk was published in 1991... 125 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:24,900 Cyberpunk was published in 1991... 126 00:07:24,900 --> 00:07:27,600 by Katie Hafner and then-husband John Markof... 127 00:07:27,700 --> 00:07:30,000 and relied almost entirely on the words of people... 128 00:07:30,100 --> 00:07:32,100 who Kevin had had a falling out with... 129 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,800 as well as those who didn't know him at all. 130 00:07:34,900 --> 00:07:39,300 Hafner and Markoff never talked to Kevin, because he wanted to be paid for his time. 131 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,600 But it didn't take much to dispel the rumors. 132 00:07:41,700 --> 00:07:43,800 NORAD denied any break-ins... 133 00:07:43,900 --> 00:07:46,600 Kristy McNichol had no idea she was being harassed... 134 00:07:46,700 --> 00:07:49,800 and no evidence ever surfaced of any payphone conversions. 135 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,700 But none of this ever got printed. 136 00:07:51,900 --> 00:07:56,300 Kevin's name was enough to convict him, regardless of the actual evidence. 137 00:07:57,300 --> 00:07:59,300 And then there was Security Pacific. 138 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,200 After being hired, Kevin had once again been terminated... 139 00:08:02,300 --> 00:08:04,500 because of the stories that followed him. 140 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,300 And this resulted in yet another Mitnick myth being born. 141 00:08:07,900 --> 00:08:12,400 There was a Newswire article coming out that stated... 142 00:08:12,700 --> 00:08:16,600 that Security Pacific had lost billions of dollars or something... 143 00:08:16,700 --> 00:08:18,000 in bad loans... 144 00:08:18,100 --> 00:08:20,300 which would have affected their stock price. 145 00:08:20,500 --> 00:08:23,000 That was actually tracked down to some error... 146 00:08:23,100 --> 00:08:25,600 that someone made in entering the information. 147 00:08:25,700 --> 00:08:28,000 lt had nothing to do with it not being true... 148 00:08:28,100 --> 00:08:31,400 but it was an error that someone made in entering the information. 149 00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:35,800 lmmediately, because there were employees at Security Pacific... 150 00:08:35,900 --> 00:08:39,600 that knew Kevin Mitnick, including one ham radio operator... 151 00:08:39,700 --> 00:08:43,100 immediately that was attributed to, ''Kevin Mitnick did this.'' 152 00:08:43,300 --> 00:08:45,600 And that's howthat rumor spread. 153 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:47,500 l'd seen this all before. 154 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,400 Hackers were always getting blamed for things they didn't do. 155 00:08:50,500 --> 00:08:53,100 ln many cases for things that weren't even possible. 156 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,200 lt was obvious somebody had to set the record straight... 157 00:08:56,300 --> 00:08:58,800 somebody who would command respect. 158 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,800 Hackers break into government and business computers... 159 00:09:01,900 --> 00:09:03,700 stealing and destroying information... 160 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,500 raiding bank accounts, running up credit card charges... 161 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,000 extorting money by threats to unleash computer viruses. 162 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:12,900 Whoa, hold on a second. 163 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,500 What was this guy reading? The Weekly World News? 164 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,800 Hackers don't steal and extort, they play with all kinds of things. 165 00:09:18,900 --> 00:09:21,200 Like those Simplex locks on the FedEx boxes. 166 00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:23,100 ln typical corporate brainpower... 167 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,700 FedEx uses the same combination on every drop box in the country. 168 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,100 lt's fun to stick something really big in there... 169 00:09:29,300 --> 00:09:32,400 that couldn't possibly fit in the chute just to fuck with the guy 170 00:09:32,500 --> 00:09:34,900 And he got some cheap beer out of it too. 171 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,600 lf you go somewhere you're not supposed to be... 172 00:09:37,700 --> 00:09:40,300 and bring something back to show people... 173 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,800 that always struck me as being a whole lot like a panty raid. 174 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,800 And you know, panty raids are really... 175 00:09:46,900 --> 00:09:49,900 in the grandest tradition of this country 176 00:09:50,100 --> 00:09:52,200 Try to make your way in there... 177 00:09:52,300 --> 00:09:56,000 get the stuff, and get back out with it without getting your head cut of. 178 00:09:56,100 --> 00:09:59,000 What we're doing here is we're talking... 179 00:09:59,100 --> 00:10:02,900 on McDonald's external speaker for their drive-thru. 180 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,300 And what we're doing to do that... 181 00:10:05,500 --> 00:10:07,800 is we have a modified ham radio... 182 00:10:07,900 --> 00:10:12,600 meaning it transmits on frequencies other than the ones it was intended to. 183 00:10:13,300 --> 00:10:16,900 ln this case, it's standard business band frequencies. 184 00:10:19,300 --> 00:10:23,900 154.6 megahertz seems to be the standard McDonald's frequency 185 00:10:25,100 --> 00:10:26,400 l'll take your order. 186 00:10:26,500 --> 00:10:29,600 The blonde, would you please kneel down for a second? 187 00:10:29,700 --> 00:10:33,100 Could one of you take off your tops? We'll give you the food for free. 188 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,700 You bastards, you better stop being smart. 189 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:37,800 -Here comes the manager. -Really? 190 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,600 While corporateAmerica would always be the playground of hackers... 191 00:10:47,700 --> 00:10:51,300 it was mostly about fun and exploration, not damage or profit. 192 00:10:51,500 --> 00:10:53,600 But try telling that to corporateAmerica. 193 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,100 Kevin Mitnick had already paid a heavy price for his curiosity. 194 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,200 He had served a year-and-a-half in 1988... 195 00:10:59,300 --> 00:11:01,900 for logging into DEC computers without authorization. 196 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,300 By simply looking at the VMS operating system... 197 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,800 DEC claimed he caused millions of dollars in damage... 198 00:11:06,900 --> 00:11:10,200 and was sentenced as if he had caused that amount of physical damage. 199 00:11:10,300 --> 00:11:10,600 He was held without bail and was put in solitary confinement for eight months... 200 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,200 He was held without bail and was put in solitary confinement for eight months... 201 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,700 because they thought he could do more damage from the prison payphone. 202 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,200 After his sentence, Kevin served three years of supervised release... 203 00:11:21,300 --> 00:11:23,000 reporting to authorities every month... 204 00:11:23,100 --> 00:11:26,000 and being restricted in where he could go and what he could do. 205 00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:28,800 He only had days to go when federal authorities decided... 206 00:11:28,900 --> 00:11:31,500 he had violated the terms of his supervised release... 207 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,300 by associating with Lewis DePayne... 208 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,500 and accessing someone's voice mail without permission. 209 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:37,900 lt was nothing. 210 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:39,400 But it was enough. 211 00:11:39,500 --> 00:11:41,500 Knowing howthe media and the court system... 212 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,400 would crucify him over any offense... 213 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,400 because he could start World War lll from a payphone... 214 00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:48,400 Kevin decided to just walk away. 215 00:11:48,900 --> 00:11:50,200 l was devastated. 216 00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:54,000 We were never far away from each other. 217 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,100 And how was he living on his own... 218 00:11:58,300 --> 00:12:02,600 without his family to share things with? 219 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,100 lt was horrible. 220 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:06,700 What kind of a life is this? 221 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:08,600 He is not streetwise. 222 00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:12,200 He's a home person. 223 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,700 Kevin managed to avoid attention. 224 00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:18,300 Then, on July 4, 1994, everything changed. 225 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:20,800 A front page story in the NewYork Times... 226 00:12:20,900 --> 00:12:24,300 turned Kevin Mitnick into a household word all over again. 227 00:12:25,300 --> 00:12:26,600 The evil-looking picture... 228 00:12:26,700 --> 00:12:29,400 the mythical stories about breaking into NORAD computers... 229 00:12:29,500 --> 00:12:31,600 and controlling all the telephones in California... 230 00:12:31,700 --> 00:12:35,600 even the Security Pacific news release tale was retold as fact. 231 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,600 Nobody could figure out howthe story made it onto the front page ofThe Times... 232 00:12:40,700 --> 00:12:43,200 since there was nothing new in the story 233 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,600 But the author was no stranger. John Markoff... 234 00:12:46,700 --> 00:12:50,100 who was quickly becoming a Mitnick expert without ever having met him. 235 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,900 We looked at the story as an amusement back then. 236 00:12:53,100 --> 00:12:56,800 We were planning the first Hackers On Planet Earth conference thatAugust. 237 00:12:56,900 --> 00:13:00,800 The story had gotten so big that we all walked around with Mitnick masks. 238 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,200 They came here to the Hotel Pennsylvania by the hundreds. 239 00:13:05,300 --> 00:13:07,800 These usually anonymous creatures of the cyberworld... 240 00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:10,200 better known as hackers, were holding a convention. 241 00:13:10,300 --> 00:13:13,500 Throughout that weekend, Kevin called in several times to say hi. 242 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,200 We all wished he could be there. 243 00:13:15,300 --> 00:13:17,000 But we knew why he was running. 244 00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:19,800 One of the things Markoff hadn't mentioned in his article... 245 00:13:19,900 --> 00:13:22,300 was the eight months of solitary confinement. 246 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,600 The guy was in solitary confinement for eight months. 247 00:13:27,900 --> 00:13:28,900 Think about it. 248 00:13:29,100 --> 00:13:32,700 l mean, that would definitely change a man. 249 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,600 You would run.You wouldn't want that. 250 00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:39,000 lt was eight months, not for anything he did, but because the judge was scared. 251 00:13:39,100 --> 00:13:41,600 And if you get someone who is that unaware... 252 00:13:41,700 --> 00:13:44,800 of actually what he can do and thinks he can destroy the world. 253 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,300 lf you have someone who has enough power... 254 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,800 to put you in solitary confinement you will run. 255 00:13:49,900 --> 00:13:51,300 lt makes perfect sense to me. 256 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,400 l think it's part hype... 257 00:13:53,700 --> 00:13:58,100 part hysteria, part lack of understanding... 258 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,500 and part fear. 259 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,200 Solitary confinement means no books... 260 00:14:03,300 --> 00:14:05,700 no pencil, no paper, no company. 261 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,700 Nothing to do... 262 00:14:07,900 --> 00:14:10,800 but stare at these small four walls. 263 00:14:11,300 --> 00:14:13,900 He would get out one hour a day.. 264 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,100 and that's it. 265 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,200 You know, he might whistle up some missile launch codes. 266 00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:21,200 That's a big problem with hackers nowadays. 267 00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:25,000 They get a little pissed off and they launch some nukes by whistling. 268 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,300 The fear factor is just insane. 269 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,500 Once or twice or maybe more, l can't even remember... 270 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,700 they didn't even bring him down to the visitors' room. 271 00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:36,100 They took my daughter and l... 272 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,300 upstairs to a floor... 273 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,800 that wasn't occupied at that time. 274 00:14:41,900 --> 00:14:44,700 We were the only ones there and the guard. 275 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:46,700 They were hovering over him... 276 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,100 as though he was an absolute monster 277 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,700 What could he possibly do, you know? 278 00:14:54,900 --> 00:14:56,500 Could he make... 279 00:14:57,900 --> 00:15:00,200 a computer out of the telephone? 280 00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:04,500 l don't know what they were afraid of! 281 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,200 First of all, he had no desire to. 282 00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:09,800 Secondly, it wouldn't have accomplished anything. 283 00:15:09,900 --> 00:15:12,000 Thirdly, he couldn't do it. 284 00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:16,400 Kevin managed to elude the authorities into the next year. 285 00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:19,200 Then, on February 15, 1995... 286 00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:21,900 they found him in Raleigh, North Carolina. 287 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,900 The FBl's most-wanted computer hacker is behind bars. 288 00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:29,400 Kevin Mitnick was jailed without bond in Raleigh, North Carolina... 289 00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:31,700 where he was arrested this week. 290 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,200 He's accused of breaking into corporate computers nationwide. 291 00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:39,300 Private computer experts say so many other hackers are at work... 292 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,600 that privacy is virtually impossible. 293 00:15:42,300 --> 00:15:44,100 The FBl had managed to track Kevin... 294 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,600 with the help of a mysterious computer expert, Tsutomu Shimomura... 295 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:50,000 who, along with some friends had managed to track... 296 00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:53,200 Kevin's cellular phone signal to the apartment he was staying in. 297 00:15:53,500 --> 00:15:57,100 One of Shimomura's friends who was there while the signal was being traced... 298 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,200 was none other than John Markoff... 299 00:15:59,300 --> 00:16:02,000 who wrote an even bigger front page story this time. 300 00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:05,300 Sure enough, l opened the door, the next day... 301 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,200 to the hotel room, and there was The Times outside the door. 302 00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:12,500 And l picked it up and l just thought, ''Oh, my God.'' 303 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,200 This article had a new list of things that Kevin had supposedly done... 304 00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:20,300 including breaking into Shimomura's ultra-secure computer... 305 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,500 leaving nasty voice mail messages... 306 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,500 and stealing 20,000 credit card numbers... 307 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,600 something that was mentioned in the first paragraph on the front page. 308 00:16:29,700 --> 00:16:32,700 But 13 paragraphs later, on Page D17... 309 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,400 it was revealed that he had never used any of them. 310 00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:38,700 They were credit card numbers that had been left lying around... 311 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,800 by lnternet Service Provider Netcom for almost a year. 312 00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:45,200 Netcom credit card file, everybody had that file. 313 00:16:45,300 --> 00:16:47,600 lf you didn't have that file, you were a loser. 314 00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:51,300 Hundreds of people had that, they swapped it around like bubble gum. 315 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,000 And then they claim that he's the one who did it, he's the one that had it... 316 00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:58,800 when that was floating around for months before he theoretically had it. 317 00:16:58,900 --> 00:17:01,700 Everybody and his sister's got a million credit card numbers. 318 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,300 What's the big deal? lt's a meaningless thing to have. 319 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,400 What l want to know... 320 00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:11,300 is did he threaten anybody in any way? 321 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,300 Did he claim he was going to do some particular set of harm? 322 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,900 Are there any notebooks that showed he had plans... 323 00:17:18,100 --> 00:17:22,500 to conspire to commit any particular thing... 324 00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:25,000 other than humiliating Tsutomu Shimomura... 325 00:17:25,100 --> 00:17:28,300 which any idiot who's ever met Shimomura could have told him... 326 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,900 this was not the guy to mess with. 327 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:32,500 l met Shimomura once. 328 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,400 The first time l met Shimomura was in front of Congress. 329 00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:38,300 And l was testifying to a congressional subcommittee... 330 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,200 and there's this guy... 331 00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:44,200 in sandals and, like, ragged-ass cutofs. 332 00:17:44,300 --> 00:17:46,200 And the rest of us are done up in ties... 333 00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:48,800 it's me and theAttorney General from New Jersey. 334 00:17:48,900 --> 00:17:52,800 And we're sitting there, giving our best ''Yes, we're in front of Congress'' thing. 335 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,200 And Shimomura is there in this surfer gear. 336 00:17:57,300 --> 00:18:00,200 And he pulls thisAT&T cell phone... 337 00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:03,700 pulls it out of the shrink-wrap, finger-hacks it... 338 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,000 and starts monitoring phone calls... 339 00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:08,000 going up and down Capitol Hill... 340 00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:12,000 while an FBl agent is standing at his shoulder listening to him. 341 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,200 l'm like, ''This fucker's got balls the size of durian fruit.'' 342 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,000 You know, this is unbelievable. This is the heaviest guy l've ever seen. 343 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,000 l mean, he's hacking, right? 344 00:18:23,100 --> 00:18:26,100 He was finger-hacking this phone in front of Congress... 345 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,600 with two FBl agents and John Gage from Sun Microsystems... 346 00:18:30,700 --> 00:18:33,900 in the room with him.And l was like, ''Wow,'' you know. 347 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,400 l mean, l was impressed. 348 00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:38,500 lnside of a week, Shimomura and Markoff had signed a book deal... 349 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,400 estimated to be worth $750,000. 350 00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:44,800 lt would be another 19 months before Kevin would even be indicted. 351 00:18:44,900 --> 00:18:48,300 The book, entitledTakedown, was finished by the end of the year. 352 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,800 When l read it, l was aghast. 353 00:18:52,500 --> 00:18:56,500 lt was Tsutomu's eating and skateboarding habits. 354 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,800 l'd been to a lot of the restaurants he'd been to... 355 00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:02,700 but l didn't need a hacker book to tell me about them. 356 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,300 Takedown. Well.... 357 00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:09,300 l don't what l want to say aboutTakedown. 358 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,900 Takedown was not well received. 359 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,800 1996 came and went as did 1997. 360 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,500 Kevin remained in prison without even a bail hearing... 361 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,300 and no prospect of a trial anytime soon. 362 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,800 A25-count indictment accused him of nothing more serious... 363 00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:31,000 than lying on the telephone about who he was... 364 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,400 and copying software which he never tried to sell or even distribute. 365 00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:36,800 Nothing about hacking into Shimomura's machine... 366 00:19:36,900 --> 00:19:39,000 or having 20,000 credit card numbers... 367 00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:42,400 nothing that would have appeared in a John Markoff story. 368 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,100 North Carolina had also charged him with making free cellular phone calls. 369 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:48,900 Kevin was given a two-year sentence... 370 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,200 more than he would have gotten for manslaughter. 371 00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:54,000 But the federal charges still remained. 372 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,600 They even put him in solitary confinement again... 373 00:19:56,700 --> 00:20:00,800 because the authorities were convinced he'd build a transmitter out of a Walkman... 374 00:20:00,900 --> 00:20:04,400 sneak into the warden's office and monitor his conversations. 375 00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:06,500 The mainstream media made light of it... 376 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,000 claiming Mitnick was put in solitary for having too many cans of tuna. 377 00:20:10,100 --> 00:20:12,700 What everyone seemed to forget was years were going by... 378 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,700 and this guy had yet to be tried. 379 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,400 And then, things got a whole lot worse. 380 00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:17,600 June 1998. 381 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,300 June 1998. 382 00:20:19,300 --> 00:20:21,800 A movie version of Takedown was announced. 383 00:20:21,900 --> 00:20:24,400 Skeet Ulrich, who played a killer in Scream... 384 00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:25,700 was set to play Kevin Mitnick. 385 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,800 And Russell Wong from The Joy Luck Club... 386 00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:29,700 would be Tsutomu Shimomura. 387 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,300 lt didn't seem to matter to anyone... 388 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,700 that the real-life Kevin was still rotting in prison without a trial. 389 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,000 According to the script we got our hands on... 390 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,600 he had been found guilty and sentenced already. 391 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,200 The magic of Hollywood. 392 00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:44,200 They even brought Kevin and Tsutomu closer. 393 00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:47,200 ln real life, they'd only met for a few seconds in a courtroom. 394 00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:49,700 ln the Hollywood version they met in a dark alleyway... 395 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,300 where Kevin would proceed to bash Tsutomu on the head... 396 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:53,800 with a garbage can lid. 397 00:20:54,100 --> 00:20:56,600 We had to tell the world that this was a big mistake. 398 00:20:56,700 --> 00:20:58,400 The truth needed to be told. 399 00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:01,100 And we could either do it ourselves, or use the media. 400 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,800 That's right, the media, democracy's biggest allies... 401 00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:06,400 committed to informing the public no matter the cost. 402 00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:08,100 The true conscience of America. 403 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,900 -Stop pushing! -Get out of the way, Brad. 404 00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:15,000 Watch yourselves! 405 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,300 Come on, guys. 406 00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:21,700 Don't yell at me, everyone's in front of me. 407 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:23,400 Tell them to come back. 408 00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:25,700 He's coming to the mike! 409 00:21:28,300 --> 00:21:30,200 Would you guys get down? 410 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,300 Watch the mikes! 411 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,100 Let's get out of the way. 412 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:46,100 Come on. 413 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,100 We decided to do it ourselves. 414 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,300 We found Skeet Ulrich's apartment in New York in a phone book... 415 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,700 and paid a visit to try and get him the real story 416 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:02,800 But he had moved. 417 00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:07,100 l know, because the doorman let me look at every single name in the book. 418 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,500 So the next stop was Miramax Films on the West Side. 419 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,400 We figured they'd appreciate a chance to correct the mistakes in the screenplay. 420 00:22:14,500 --> 00:22:17,400 And we knew we'd be warmly received because this was Miramax. 421 00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:20,100 The company had distributed Michael Moore's latest film... 422 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,700 you know, the guy who films in everybody's lobby. 423 00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:29,900 Hi, we're looking for Miramax? 424 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,000 -What's your name? -Emmanuel Goldstein. 425 00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:35,100 Who you here to see? 426 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,100 Sorry, you can't film in here. 427 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,200 -You can't film here? -No, it's a landmark. 428 00:22:40,300 --> 00:22:41,700 Sorry, you can't.... 429 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,000 So there's no way you can call upstairs.... 430 00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:48,700 You have to call them, they will call me. 431 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:51,700 This wasn't going well. 432 00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:54,400 How could a movie company tell us to stop filming? 433 00:22:54,500 --> 00:22:56,400 All we wanted to do was talk to somebody. 434 00:23:00,100 --> 00:23:01,200 What a letdown. 435 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,600 His light is on, so he's capturing everything. 436 00:23:03,700 --> 00:23:06,600 So please go outside before he has to call the police. 437 00:23:06,700 --> 00:23:09,500 All right, we don't want that, so we'll go outside.... 438 00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:13,100 We called the office and waited to hear from them, but we never did. 439 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,900 lt was like they were scared of us. Maybe they agreed with Bill Clinton... 440 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,900 that hackers were as one-dimensional as they were in the script. 441 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,900 How could we get them to see the other side? 442 00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:26,800 That night, NewYork City introduced unlimited ride MetroCards. 443 00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:30,000 We decided to find out how long it would take for our cards to reset... 444 00:23:30,100 --> 00:23:32,500 so we could let people in for free. 445 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,100 This is what the hacker world was really all about. 446 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:44,700 Why didn't they see this? 447 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,400 Why did it always have to be something evil to the people who didn't get it? 448 00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:54,300 We had only one option. 449 00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:56,500 ''For Off The Hook, l recently heard the show... 450 00:23:56,700 --> 00:23:59,100 ''where you got the copy of a script for Takedown. 451 00:23:59,300 --> 00:24:02,600 ''l found it really amusing howthe scriptwriters can take the truth... 452 00:24:02,700 --> 00:24:06,600 ''and not twist it or fabricate it, but just plain lie about what happened.'' 453 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,500 l've heard about Kevin's story, and thanks to Off The Hook... 454 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,100 l heard about this meeting, and l decided to come... 455 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:14,600 and see how l can help. 456 00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:17,600 lt wasn't from me, it's from somebody else, l knew who that is. 457 00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:21,800 -ls there a good catchiness? -Yeah. ''From Supermax to Miramax: 458 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,400 ''Three-and-a-halfYears With No Trial.'' 459 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,000 And then you can make another one, ''From Miramax to Supermax: 460 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:31,300 ''And No Trial.'' 461 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,400 When they see two ''Free Kevin'' stickers... 462 00:24:34,500 --> 00:24:39,100 when they see 10, 20, 100, they're gonna say, ''Who the hell is Kevin?'' 463 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,600 They'll keep saying it until somebody answers them. 464 00:24:41,700 --> 00:24:45,500 One or two people that know more about it are one or two people more on our side. 465 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,800 Those two people get two people who get two people.That's how it is. 466 00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:51,200 We're gonna be in their face every step of the way. 467 00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:54,700 lf it comes to showing this thing on the screen, in theaters... 468 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,500 we're going to be there, too. 469 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,000 l mean, what we're doing now isn't going to be finished... 470 00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:03,100 until Kevin has his trial, until Kevin is out. 471 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,600 ''Guilty by Hollywood'' or something like that. 472 00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:08,000 -That's a good one. -l like that. 473 00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:11,700 Yeah, l did look at the script, and.... 474 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,100 l don't know. 475 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,500 lt's a shame and it definitely shouldn't be something out there... 476 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,100 for someone who knows very little about Kevin... 477 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,200 to then see this movie and have ideas in their head that are untrue. 478 00:25:24,300 --> 00:25:27,100 We had tried talking to them and they wouldn't listen. 479 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,000 Now, by having a demonstration outside their offices, they would have to listen. 480 00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:33,800 But we were hackers. What did we know about demonstrations? 481 00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:35,500 Just that they can turn into riots... 482 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,700 especially when the Mayor bans demonstrations outside City Hall... 483 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,100 and the cops shoot people a lot more. 484 00:25:41,300 --> 00:25:44,300 We needed guidance, someone with experience. 485 00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:46,500 We looked all over town for an activist. 486 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,700 Maybe one of those gray-haired hippies from the '60s. 487 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,000 We found one. Sort of. 488 00:26:02,500 --> 00:26:05,200 What's it like demonstrating here? Do you get harassed? 489 00:26:05,300 --> 00:26:08,400 They hate our guts because they don't want the truth to come out. 490 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,200 Why do you think there isn't more activism? 491 00:26:11,300 --> 00:26:14,200 Because people don't care, they're scared... 492 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,600 they're afraid they'll get into trouble. l can understand it. 493 00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:21,600 But we still have to take a stand, afraid or not. 494 00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:24,700 We have to at least give it a try, we have to give it a shot. 495 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,700 -Has this cop been giving you any trouble? -No, he hasn't bothered me. 496 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,300 And we have a President that wants to suck their brains out. 497 00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:34,800 That bothers a lot of people, but.... 498 00:26:34,900 --> 00:26:39,800 Anybody that's decent gets bothered when a little child is tortured to death. 499 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,400 Or when a President is sucking their brains out. 500 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:43,800 Yeah. 501 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,000 He wasn't exactly what we had in mind. 502 00:26:46,100 --> 00:26:49,400 l got a real earful about the evils of homosexuals and communists. 503 00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:52,800 But in the end, he told us the one thing we needed to hear 504 00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:56,100 When you demonstrate, make sure you're in the right. 505 00:26:56,500 --> 00:27:00,000 And that's the one thing we were sure of: We were right. 506 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,300 The day arrived. We had no idea what to expect. 507 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,000 We just stood there for a while, not knowing what to do. 508 00:27:15,100 --> 00:27:17,600 Our converted phone company van got more attention than us. 509 00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:19,900 My name is Noah Kenickstein, l'm an attorney. 510 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,900 -For Miramax? -No. For you all! 511 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,500 l didn't even know. 512 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,300 -l'm a lawyer. l'm representing you all. -Okay. Great. 513 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,500 So, no one's getting arrested, right? 514 00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:34,000 -l didn't plan on it. -Good. 515 00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:37,100 The National Lawyers Guild sent someone to protect us... 516 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,900 and that was the turning point. 517 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,400 Things began to come together. Even members of the media showed up. 518 00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:46,000 lt seemed like everyone except Miramax was taking this seriously. 519 00:27:46,700 --> 00:27:50,700 We learned that when you stand outside a film studio's offices with picket signs... 520 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,000 people notice. 521 00:28:01,300 --> 00:28:04,600 These folks are gonna put on a little demonstration here. 522 00:28:04,700 --> 00:28:07,500 They're gonna be marching around. l thought l would tell you. 523 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,800 -You could tell the.... -l'll tell the precinct. 524 00:28:09,900 --> 00:28:13,800 Tell the precinct, and tell them l'm a lawyer lt's nice and calm. 525 00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:15,900 No problems at all. 526 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,000 But they're having a little.... They'll be marching around. 527 00:28:19,100 --> 00:28:21,000 -l've got it. -l wanted to tell you that. 528 00:28:21,100 --> 00:28:24,500 l appreciate thatvery much. Could you tell me approximately how many? 529 00:28:24,700 --> 00:28:28,400 l would say there's gonna be.... 50 people, Patty? 530 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,100 50 to 60, maximum 50. 531 00:28:35,100 --> 00:28:39,300 -What area are you doing it in? -ln front of Miramax Films. 532 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,200 They're demonstrating about a movie that they're making. 533 00:28:42,300 --> 00:28:44,600 Thanks a lot, l appreciate you stopping me. 534 00:28:44,700 --> 00:28:46,100 Everybody's nice and calm. 535 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,800 -l'll tell them that.Thanks for the advice. -Okay, no problem. 536 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,900 No, they're not gonna come on purpose. 537 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,700 People are, you know.... 538 00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:57,600 You're talking about suits. 539 00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:00,600 They don't give a fuck. You got to go hand it to them. 540 00:29:00,700 --> 00:29:03,000 Don't harass the people who walk by 541 00:29:03,100 --> 00:29:05,600 Some people have crises going on in their lives. 542 00:29:05,700 --> 00:29:08,200 They can't be bothered with our problems. 543 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,900 Do you have a permit? Who's in charge out here? 544 00:29:13,500 --> 00:29:15,400 Do you all have a permit? 545 00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:18,200 As long as you don't block the front of the entrance. 546 00:29:18,300 --> 00:29:20,800 You stay to the side, please.Thank you. 547 00:29:22,900 --> 00:29:26,600 They can walk in front. The cops have been-- 548 00:29:26,700 --> 00:29:30,600 As long as you don't block the entrance, l don't have no problem. 549 00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:33,200 They have a FirstAmendment right. 550 00:29:33,300 --> 00:29:35,500 Don't block the entrance. That's all l'm saying. 551 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,800 lt's ringing. l got put in voice mail, guess they got too many calls. 552 00:29:38,900 --> 00:29:42,000 This one's reaching voice mail. l'll leave a message. 553 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,400 Hi, this is the protest outside. Are you guys there? 554 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,000 lf you get this, come outside. We're right down here. 555 00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:49,600 l see someone. 556 00:29:50,100 --> 00:29:53,400 All right. Maybe you'll pick up the phone or come downstairs later. 557 00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:55,100 You calling the Publicity Department? 558 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,200 No, the main number. l got a hold of them yesterday... 559 00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:01,100 and l asked for directions to the protest... 560 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,200 and they told me they couldn't get me from where l was at to here. 561 00:30:05,300 --> 00:30:08,300 l said, ''Okay, l'll call you back tomorrow when l'm out front.'' 562 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,400 -l see them, they've got their heads out. -There's one. 563 00:30:11,700 --> 00:30:13,100 They're not answering the phones. 564 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,500 Waving banners that said ''Free Kevin''... 565 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,500 and holding ''Stop Miramax'' posters... 566 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,800 the small butvocal crowd of protesters... 567 00:30:19,900 --> 00:30:23,300 stood outside Miramax Pictures' New York offices yesterday. 568 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,000 At issue: this script, entitledTakedown... 569 00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:30,000 the story of the nation's most notorious computer hacker, Kevin Mitnick. 570 00:30:30,100 --> 00:30:32,900 Mitnick is currently being held in prison without bail... 571 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,000 awaiting trial on computer crimes. 572 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,200 lt's a script these Kevin Mitnick supporters say is libelous... 573 00:30:38,300 --> 00:30:41,000 and would hurt Mitnick's chances of getting a fair trial. 574 00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:43,200 lt might influence the jury 575 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,700 lt might change a lot of things in a negative way. 576 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,800 He's trying so hard to at least get a trial and then this comes up... 577 00:30:50,900 --> 00:30:52,900 where he's constantly being defamed. 578 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,600 You never know who you might see when you're standing outside a film studio. 579 00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:01,900 Kevin Bacon had no interest whatsoever. 580 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,500 But radio personality Lazlow did. 581 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,300 With the proliferation of the news... 582 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,800 TV news journalism like Primetime Live... 583 00:31:12,900 --> 00:31:16,500 and these shows that completely distort the facts... 584 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,900 and shows like 60 Minutes being forced to go in the same direction... 585 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,300 people don't knowthe facts about the case. 586 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,600 They don't knowthe facts about hackers. 587 00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:33,200 l'd say that hackers... 588 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,800 are the communists of the 1990s... 589 00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:39,500 where, basically, if anybody says ''hacker''... 590 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,200 all of a sudden you've got this demon 666 across your head. 591 00:31:43,300 --> 00:31:45,900 Nobody actually understands any of it. 592 00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:51,500 What l do in my part, on the radio... 593 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,200 with my syndicated show, is try to get people to open their brains... 594 00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:59,600 because l talk to a lot of old people, because l'm on a lot of news talk stations. 595 00:31:59,700 --> 00:32:04,200 When l can, l put Emmanuel or Bernie S., or anybody else on there... 596 00:32:04,300 --> 00:32:08,400 to talk about the state of what's going on, because nobody else will cover it. 597 00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:10,600 The people who cover it in the mainstream media... 598 00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:13,300 do so for profit, like the guy that wrote the book. 599 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,800 The demonstrators say they have sent a copy of this illicitly obtained script... 600 00:32:17,900 --> 00:32:21,100 to Kevin Mitnick in jail, and that he absolutely hates it. 601 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,000 Miramax's parent, Disney, may not like it either. 602 00:32:24,100 --> 00:32:25,700 The controversy comes on the heels... 603 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,600 of the dumping of $43 million in Disney stock... 604 00:32:28,700 --> 00:32:30,500 by the Texas Board of Education. 605 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,300 The board's complaint: Miramax films have too much sex and violence. 606 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,000 Miramax distorts the facts! 607 00:32:42,300 --> 00:32:45,200 Was that Harvey Weinstein, President of Miramax? 608 00:32:45,300 --> 00:32:46,400 He walked right by us. 609 00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:49,400 He didn't even get a ''Stop Miramax'' brochure? 610 00:32:49,700 --> 00:32:52,100 Of course we had a brochure for Harvey. 611 00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:54,500 Okay, l'll talk to you later. Bye. 612 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,300 -What did they say? -l don't know. 613 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,500 There she is. That's the one who answered the phone. 614 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,200 She hung up on me yesterday 615 00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:04,600 l got through. 616 00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:07,100 They waved. Did you see them wave? 617 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:08,900 Miramax distorts the facts! 618 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,500 They said if you use a bullhorn... 619 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,100 or obstruct people's walkways, you have to have a permit. 620 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,200 Miramax distorts the facts! 621 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,600 lf you continue to use that, l'm gonna have to call the cops. 622 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,700 l think that three years is a long time to be held without actually having a trial. 623 00:33:27,900 --> 00:33:30,000 And l think that what Miramax is doing... 624 00:33:30,100 --> 00:33:34,600 is going to jeopardize his right to have a free and honest trial. 625 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,500 So that's why l'm out here protesting. 626 00:33:37,700 --> 00:33:38,900 Thank you. 627 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,600 They all were aware of the thing in front of the building in NewYork City. 628 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,000 They talked about it on the set, asked me about it. 629 00:33:47,100 --> 00:33:48,700 They said ''Did you talk to Emmanuel? That's great.'' 630 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,700 They were waving. They think it's fantastic. 631 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,500 And they all want Free Kevin stickers. The whole crew. 632 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,700 lf you give me some, l will send it to them. They will put them on their cars. 633 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:57,000 Hello, sir. Do you know who Kevin Mitnick is? 634 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,400 Hello, sir. Do you know who Kevin Mitnick is? 635 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:00,500 No, l do not. 636 00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:05,000 Computer hacker who's been in jail for three-and-a-half years without a trial. 637 00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:07,900 Miramax has decided to make a movie about him. 638 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,400 The script is false. lt makes him out to be a violent racist... 639 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,300 which he is not. 640 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,300 l want to know what you think about it. 641 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:17,800 When are they doing the film? 642 00:34:17,900 --> 00:34:20,800 -They start shooting in a few weeks. -Kevin Mitnick is great. 643 00:34:20,900 --> 00:34:24,400 -How do l find out the truth? -They should take him out of prison. 644 00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:26,900 -Hold on, l want to talk to you. -What's that? 645 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:31,500 My main thing is the only reason he ended up running afoul of the law... 646 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,700 is because people don't have access to communications. 647 00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:39,500 All you got is big corporations like Miramax with access to communications. 648 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,400 FirstAmendment! Yeah! 649 00:34:42,300 --> 00:34:43,500 This is inAmerica. 650 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,600 -He was in jail three years without a trial? -He's still in jail. 651 00:34:46,700 --> 00:34:49,500 l saw something about this on CNBC on Friday. 652 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,200 This happens a lot, though. 653 00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:55,400 You always have unauthorized biographies and stuff like that. 654 00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:57,700 Where it's like, you have an autobiography... 655 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,100 you have an authorized biography. 656 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,200 -This is sort of like an unauthorized-- -This is going to be big. 657 00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:07,100 -He hasn't had a trial yet? -Hasn't had a trial yet. 658 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,700 Not only that, in the movie, they already wrote that he had a trial. 659 00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:15,500 -You ever hear of Kevin Mitnick? -No. Who's that? 660 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,800 Well, if you're walking away, l really can't.... 661 00:35:20,900 --> 00:35:23,600 How did you guys get a hold of the script? 662 00:35:24,100 --> 00:35:25,600 Okay. All right. 663 00:35:28,900 --> 00:35:32,500 You're a lawyer. lsn't it illegal if they're gonna slander him? 664 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,100 Can't they try and stop them on legal grounds? 665 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,700 That's not right.They have to put a waiver-- 666 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,500 l think they should hold the film until after he's had a fair trial. 667 00:35:41,900 --> 00:35:44,300 l mean, it happens. lt happened, unfortunately 668 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,200 You know, l don't think it should be.... 669 00:35:46,300 --> 00:35:50,100 Obviously, it's probably not legal to have a lawsuit against Miramax. 670 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,600 l think they should have to wait until he's had a fair trial. 671 00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:55,700 And also they shouldn't use his real name. 672 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,600 lf they want to change the facts, they should change the name. 673 00:35:58,700 --> 00:36:01,900 -Make it a fictional story. -Three-and-a-half years is a long time. 674 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,300 Think about what you've done for the last three-and-a-half years. 675 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,800 And imagine being in jail while all that stuf was happening. 676 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,800 For just that. Just for copying software. 677 00:36:15,700 --> 00:36:17,200 l've copied software. 678 00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:20,000 -What did he do? He hacked. -He hacked. 679 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,200 l would like to know your opinion... 680 00:36:22,300 --> 00:36:25,700 on the slandering in this film. 681 00:36:28,500 --> 00:36:31,200 Miramax sucks. So, like, Free Kevin! 682 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,600 l can't talk shit about a movie l haven't seen or read the script of. 683 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,700 But the one relevant thing that l could say.. 684 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,000 is it seems to me there is a witch-hunt sort of hysterical mentality.. 685 00:36:46,100 --> 00:36:48,100 vis-a-vis hacking, you know. 686 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,100 People are very quick to fly off the handle and condemn as terrorists... 687 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,500 people who are, you know, exploring a newtechnology landscape... 688 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,800 in a way that they don't understand. 689 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,100 -Definitely. -That's as far as l can go not having seen it. 690 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,900 Not only did we find a receptive bunch at local theaters... 691 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,000 they even started to do our work for us. 692 00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:09,600 New York was great. But it was only the start. 693 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:10,400 New York was great. But it was only the start. 694 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:14,500 We had to travel to get to the right people. So we put together a camera crew... 695 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,100 and made sure none of us had anything planned for the next several weeks. 696 00:37:18,300 --> 00:37:21,200 We charted out a course, and headed to the airport. 697 00:37:21,300 --> 00:37:24,700 That's where we got our economy-sized rental car with unlimited mileage. 698 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,200 The plan was to go to Wilmington, North Carolina... 699 00:37:27,300 --> 00:37:29,600 where filming for Takedown was about to begin. 700 00:37:29,700 --> 00:37:32,700 On the way, we figured we'd make a detour and stop at Defcon... 701 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,000 the annual hacker convention in Las Vegas. 702 00:37:35,100 --> 00:37:37,800 lf we were going to do that, we should stop in San Diego... 703 00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:39,500 to say hi to Tsutomu Shimomura... 704 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,700 and maybe convince him to stop using Kevin Mitnick as a cash cow. 705 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,700 And if we did that, it would be rude not to visit John Markof... 706 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,300 to ask him to inject some accuracy into his stories about Kevin. 707 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,500 Since we were suddenly adding 10,000 miles to this rental car... 708 00:37:52,700 --> 00:37:54,800 we might as well visit some of the corporations... 709 00:37:54,900 --> 00:37:58,500 who were claiming Kevin Mitnick cost them millions of dollars in damages... 710 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,400 just to see what the hell they were talking about. 711 00:38:03,100 --> 00:38:06,500 There's something about Pennsylvania. l call it the Prison State. 712 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,600 That's because they seem to have prisons everywhere you look. 713 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:15,400 And almost everyone l know who's gone to prison seems to wind up in Pennsylvania. 714 00:38:15,500 --> 00:38:16,500 Weird. 715 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,500 Besides, every time l get pulled over by a cop... 716 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,500 l seem to find myself in the Prison State. l knew l'd better be careful. 717 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,600 Let's not get off on the wrong foot, Pennsylvania's great. 718 00:38:26,700 --> 00:38:30,400 Home of such landmarks as the Liberty Bell, lndependence Hall... 719 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,900 that little surveillance camera above lndependence Hall... 720 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,300 and the house where Thomas Jefferson signed the Declaration of lndependence... 721 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,000 just down the block from theAfro-American Museum and its new neighbor. 722 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,400 A maximum-security federal prison right in the middle of Philadelphia. 723 00:38:53,100 --> 00:38:54,700 Howtimes change. 724 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,200 They say it's illegal to take pictures of any prison... 725 00:39:00,300 --> 00:39:03,800 even those under construction, even those right in the middle of a city 726 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,400 We couldn't find a law anywhere that backed this up... 727 00:39:06,500 --> 00:39:08,200 but try taking a picture of a prison... 728 00:39:08,300 --> 00:39:11,300 without getting threatened by some prison guard or cop. 729 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,100 Here, look at this part. 730 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,500 Maybe there are subtle details that will lead to a prison uprising some day 731 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,500 l think fully half of the people in federal prison, if not more... 732 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,400 shouldn't be there. 733 00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:34,700 lt's notviolent criminals. 734 00:39:36,300 --> 00:39:39,400 Drug crimes. Somebody gets a mandatory 10 years... 735 00:39:39,500 --> 00:39:42,300 for selling $800 worth of LSD. 736 00:39:42,700 --> 00:39:46,100 That's not right either. That's the way the federal system works. 737 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:47,300 lt's just not right. 738 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:51,800 l knowthe state of California has more prisoners than SouthAfrica. 739 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,400 lncarceration is a big business. l think that's part of the reason. 740 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,600 There is less and less tolerance on the part of the public... 741 00:40:01,700 --> 00:40:03,600 for people who have transgressed the rules. 742 00:40:03,700 --> 00:40:08,600 We have a huge prison population. This gets into other questions. 743 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,200 Putting a computer hacker in with sex offenders and murderers... 744 00:40:12,300 --> 00:40:15,100 is probably the worst thing you can possibly do... 745 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:16,900 to somebody who has... 746 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,500 not murdered, is not a violent criminal! 747 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,800 Somebody who's a technological.... Who's gone over the edge. 748 00:40:24,900 --> 00:40:27,700 Then, again, we have to define what we mean. 749 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,600 We need a new classification system for technological law. 750 00:40:31,700 --> 00:40:34,800 ln one of my books l talked about setting up a court system... 751 00:40:34,900 --> 00:40:39,300 especially for technology where the people that were prosecuting... 752 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,000 and the judges and the people involved in the cases... 753 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,400 would have some technological basis... 754 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,200 to evaluate and try the case in a reasonable manner... 755 00:40:48,300 --> 00:40:51,400 and to come up with an alternative sentencing system... 756 00:40:51,500 --> 00:40:53,700 that reflected more the nature of the crime. 757 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,700 lf you're exposed to people like that for too long, you change with them. 758 00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:59,600 You become one of them. 759 00:41:00,700 --> 00:41:04,100 Next thing you know you'll be locked away again for doing what they do. 760 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,700 One night... 761 00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:13,000 ...l was in my cell in a minimum-security facility, Bucks County Prison. 762 00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:16,100 Two guards stormed in... 763 00:41:16,700 --> 00:41:19,200 and flipped my bed upside down... 764 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,000 and locked me in handcufs and started rummaging through my storage locker.. 765 00:41:24,100 --> 00:41:26,600 demanding to know where my computer was. 766 00:41:27,900 --> 00:41:31,000 l'm like, ''l don't have a computer here. What are you talking about?'' 767 00:41:31,100 --> 00:41:33,300 They were squeezing the toothpaste out of my tube... 768 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:37,000 ostensibly looking for a computer or whatever they were looking for. 769 00:41:37,100 --> 00:41:38,300 lt was bizarre! 770 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,700 But Pennsylvania was more than prisons, it was a place of learning. 771 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,200 And theAge Expo was where thousands of senior citizens learned... 772 00:41:47,300 --> 00:41:49,800 that corporateAmerica really cared about them. 773 00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,500 The guy representing BellAtlantic was the most sincere of all. 774 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,600 How could you not trust a fox? 775 00:42:01,700 --> 00:42:05,300 Freddie the Phone-Fraud Fox was passing corporate numbers to the seniors: 776 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,900 Over $4 billion in phone fraud every year. 777 00:42:08,300 --> 00:42:12,000 Freddie said most of that was because of evil computer hackers. 778 00:42:12,100 --> 00:42:13,600 And l met him. 779 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,000 Freddie knew words like ''digit'' would only confuse older people. 780 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,700 lt made more sense to say things like ''ten-number number.'' 781 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,300 lt means they will have to dial the area code... 782 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,700 along with their seven-digit number each time they place a call... 783 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,100 within and between 215, 610... 784 00:42:33,500 --> 00:42:36,200 and the new 267 for 215... 785 00:42:36,500 --> 00:42:39,800 and the 484 for 610 area code. 786 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,800 You give them out in blocks of 10,000 and people that get these blocks of 10,000... 787 00:42:44,900 --> 00:42:48,400 end up using 300 numbers and all the others are tied up wasted. 788 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:53,800 Easy listening Never mind the world outside 789 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:59,300 Easy listening Famine, war, and genocide 790 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:04,500 Easy listening Forget the loony on the loose 791 00:43:04,700 --> 00:43:09,900 Easy listening Rising crime and child abuse 792 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,700 lgnore the poisoned atmosphere 793 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,300 Open up another beer 794 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,800 The media feeds you every day what to think and say 795 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,000 We went back... 796 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:26,300 ...to a familiar place. 797 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,800 Everything was just as we left it... 798 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,100 only it was about 90 degrees warmer. 799 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,100 But you could still feel the chill after four-and-a-half years. 800 00:43:40,700 --> 00:43:43,500 lt was surprising how nobody tried to stop us from filming. 801 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,400 So we filmed everything. The medium-security facility... 802 00:43:46,500 --> 00:43:48,000 the minimum-security prison camp... 803 00:43:48,100 --> 00:43:51,600 the sign that lets minimum-security prisoners know when they've escaped... 804 00:43:51,700 --> 00:43:53,600 and Unicor, the slave-labor office... 805 00:43:53,700 --> 00:43:57,100 where prisoners make furniture for the government for pennies a day. 806 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:01,700 We almost made it out. 807 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,700 lt was the first time we had ever gotten pulled over by prison cops. 808 00:44:16,300 --> 00:44:18,500 How could we not drop in on our friends at CERT... 809 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:20,400 the Computer Emergency Response Team? 810 00:44:20,500 --> 00:44:23,500 They tell the world when there's a threat to computer networks. 811 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:25,400 They'd back us up and tell the world... 812 00:44:25,500 --> 00:44:27,800 that Kevin Mitnick posed no threat at all to NORAD... 813 00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:30,200 Kristy McNichol, or theAmerican way of life. 814 00:44:30,500 --> 00:44:32,400 We thought computer people worked odd hours... 815 00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:34,700 but these guys apparently took Saturdays off. 816 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,600 We asked the security guard to come down and let us leave a pamphlet or two. 817 00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:44,300 Something must get triggered whenever you say Mitnick's name. 818 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,400 We were meeting far too many cops in so brief a period of time. 819 00:44:47,500 --> 00:44:49,800 But at least Pennsylvania was living up to its name. 820 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,700 We explained why we were there but got the message we expected. 821 00:44:58,100 --> 00:44:59,300 You're not welcome. 822 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:01,700 We're used to that. 823 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,500 ln the event that you should maybe happen to come again... 824 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:07,800 if you are not welcome... 825 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,600 and l find out that you are not welcome... 826 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:15,100 you will be exactly where Kevin is... 827 00:45:16,100 --> 00:45:18,400 and then you'd be defeating your purpose. 828 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,200 l'm here to do the job and my job right now is... 829 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,400 -to get you out of here. -l understand that. 830 00:45:25,500 --> 00:45:29,000 l know a lot of people who are in prison who probably shouldn't be there. 831 00:45:29,100 --> 00:45:31,100 But that's our judicial system. 832 00:45:31,700 --> 00:45:33,000 You know what l mean? 833 00:45:33,100 --> 00:45:36,500 Sometimes it works and sometimes it don't. 834 00:45:37,500 --> 00:45:42,400 Believe me, l've seen it not work in the favor of my people many times. 835 00:45:42,900 --> 00:45:45,500 l'm gonna parlay the rest of this... 836 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:50,700 my tedious job is to run you for wants and warrants and all that kind of stuff... 837 00:45:51,300 --> 00:45:54,100 if you would expedite your leaving. 838 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,100 We'll get out of here, we'll head for the border right away 839 00:45:57,300 --> 00:45:58,200 19 radio. 840 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,600 The gentleman has been given a standard warning. 841 00:46:05,500 --> 00:46:07,300 l'll give you his name and stuf. 842 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,300 Before we left, we decided to check the mood of the street. 843 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,300 He told me not to mess with her. 844 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,500 She did everybody she could in the weeds... 845 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,000 and then she moved to the projects. 846 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:24,900 lt's not Kevin's fault. 847 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,600 Free Kevin. Kevin has nothing to do with it. 848 00:46:27,700 --> 00:46:31,800 The broad quit me 'cause l was an alcoholic... 849 00:46:31,900 --> 00:46:33,600 and l wasn't making no money. 850 00:46:35,300 --> 00:46:37,400 l was broke, that's why she quit me. 851 00:46:37,500 --> 00:46:41,100 The reason l don't have a girlfriend is l don't have no money. 852 00:46:44,100 --> 00:46:45,300 Oh, wow. 853 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,800 He seems like a nice guy. Why would you want to do anything to him? 854 00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,000 You think his girlfriend's gonna quit him or something? 855 00:46:53,100 --> 00:46:54,100 lt was time to go. 856 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,000 We was peeling potatoes 857 00:47:02,700 --> 00:47:04,200 Back in World War Two 858 00:47:05,300 --> 00:47:09,700 And we was playing that rock and roll After school for you know who 859 00:47:12,500 --> 00:47:14,300 Hidden from the public 860 00:47:14,900 --> 00:47:16,700 lt was behind the scenes 861 00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:22,300 There was a relic They called the purple hair 862 00:47:44,100 --> 00:47:45,600 With Kevin Mitnick locked away... 863 00:47:45,700 --> 00:47:48,600 the phone companies of the world felt safe from intruders. 864 00:47:48,700 --> 00:47:51,700 But the fact remained, many people were exploring all the time... 865 00:47:51,900 --> 00:47:53,000 online and off. 866 00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,000 Allied SignalAerospace... 867 00:47:55,900 --> 00:47:57,400 Sprint PCS up there... 868 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,300 lnformix, Southwestern Bell Mobile Systems.... 869 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:01,500 You're scaring me. 870 00:48:03,300 --> 00:48:08,100 lt's like this flat area where there's no trees or anything, just industry 871 00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,900 Oklahoma, the state that created Hanson. 872 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,600 People kept telling us our sound guy looked like one of the Hanson brothers. 873 00:48:17,700 --> 00:48:20,000 Since we were going through their hometown, Tulsa... 874 00:48:20,100 --> 00:48:22,600 we figured we'd go to one of Tulsa's bustling malls... 875 00:48:22,700 --> 00:48:25,400 and turn the Free Kevin campaign into a Hanson campaign. 876 00:48:25,700 --> 00:48:27,200 We could use the publicity.. 877 00:48:27,300 --> 00:48:30,000 and if we could confuse some Tulsans in the process... 878 00:48:30,100 --> 00:48:31,400 all the better. 879 00:48:31,500 --> 00:48:33,500 And it sure wasn't hard to do that. 880 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,800 Once we'd confused people at the mall, we headed over to Oral Roberts University... 881 00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:53,700 in the hopes that the Religious Right would climb on board. 882 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,600 When the vice president of the university, a former federal agent... 883 00:49:01,700 --> 00:49:04,700 came down the stairs with a golf club, we took the hint. 884 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,500 There wasn't a golf course for miles. 885 00:49:07,900 --> 00:49:11,300 Hellflower, Satan's power 886 00:49:11,500 --> 00:49:15,000 You grow more beautiful by the hour 887 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,400 You feed our hearts And you free our minds 888 00:49:18,500 --> 00:49:22,100 With the essence of the souls that you devour 889 00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,900 Shrinking violet makes the scene 890 00:49:33,300 --> 00:49:36,700 ln the formal garden of the queen 891 00:49:37,900 --> 00:49:40,400 Bloody Mary, so contrary 892 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,100 They had a hard time getting into my place. 893 00:49:43,500 --> 00:49:47,100 l had the bedroom door closed, so l didn't hear the pounding on the door 894 00:49:47,500 --> 00:49:50,600 They were pounding on the door out there for a good 10 minutes. 895 00:49:50,700 --> 00:49:53,100 They actually started calling on the cellular phone... 896 00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,500 and leaving messages on my answering machine. 897 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,200 ''This is the FBl. We're at your door. Open up.'' 898 00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:02,200 l wasn't there when they searched my home. My mom had to get me from school. 899 00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:04,500 My dad was the only one home. They thought... 900 00:50:05,500 --> 00:50:06,500 that he was me. 901 00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,100 They were looking for somebody that was an adult. 902 00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,600 When they found out that l was like, 13... 903 00:50:14,900 --> 00:50:16,300 they didn't know what to do. 904 00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,000 l think when they walk in and want to take things... 905 00:50:19,100 --> 00:50:20,600 they should be told to go to hell... 906 00:50:20,700 --> 00:50:24,100 take what they want, we'll see you in court, don't even talk to me. 907 00:50:25,300 --> 00:50:29,200 The problem, of course, is that hackers don't have the resources to do this. 908 00:50:29,700 --> 00:50:31,700 They want to try to get off cheap... 909 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,300 so they cooperate and they plea bargain... 910 00:50:34,500 --> 00:50:37,500 and they end up pleading guilty to something they didn't do. 911 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,600 And that sets the record bad for them going forward. 912 00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,300 l think if people had the resources, or if there were an organization... 913 00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,100 dedicated to helping people, to providing the resources.... 914 00:50:49,300 --> 00:50:53,300 You know, something that's much more than just a dummy front... 915 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:54,600 such as the EFF. 916 00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:59,600 An organization that's actually truly willing to help in those matters... 917 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,500 that we'd see a lot more progress along those lines. 918 00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:04,700 The government, for once... 919 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,300 would have to start conforming to the same laws... 920 00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,500 that they're supposedly enforcing. 921 00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,200 We were detained for two hours in the parking lot. 922 00:51:12,300 --> 00:51:15,400 There were 13 police officers and l think five or six police cars. 923 00:51:17,300 --> 00:51:19,100 l told them what was going on... 924 00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:22,200 but they seemed to think there was more going on than there was. 925 00:51:23,900 --> 00:51:26,300 Without my consent they took my box of crystals... 926 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,100 even though they admitted they didn't know what they were. 927 00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,800 They took anything and everything that had magnetic media on it... 928 00:51:32,900 --> 00:51:34,700 or had an electrical plug on it. 929 00:51:34,900 --> 00:51:37,600 They took other unrelated items such as a woman's purse. 930 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,800 l'm not quite sure howthat fits into the scope of their investigation. 931 00:51:41,900 --> 00:51:43,700 Every business card l had. 932 00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:47,100 They took everything just to make life difficult on me. 933 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,900 They told me they're not trying to chastise me... 934 00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:53,200 and then one of them said... 935 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,800 he used to play with baseball cards when he was a kid. 936 00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:58,900 They would be searching my wardrobe. 937 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,700 l'd be standing there with the guy he's asking questions... 938 00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,100 and he's going through every pocket in my wardrobe. 939 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:05,800 Then it suddenly dawned on me... 940 00:52:05,900 --> 00:52:08,500 l don't have to stand there. So l walked out of the room. 941 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,700 He stopped searching the wardrobe and walked out with me. 942 00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:13,100 lt was very obvious. 943 00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,400 Their tactics weren't meant to actually accomplish something. 944 00:52:16,500 --> 00:52:20,100 Searching every pocket of every shirt in my closet... 945 00:52:20,700 --> 00:52:23,700 that tactic wasn't meant to do anything except intimidate me. 946 00:52:24,300 --> 00:52:26,200 They showed up at my friend's house... 947 00:52:26,900 --> 00:52:29,900 where a 3-year-old and a 5-year-old had just been put to bed. 948 00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,500 They came storming into the house with guns drawn... 949 00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:34,400 ran up the steps... 950 00:52:35,100 --> 00:52:38,100 and said, ''Freeze! Secret Service! Don't move!'' 951 00:52:38,300 --> 00:52:42,100 l was sitting at the keyboard of a computer, so l looked extremely dangerous. 952 00:52:43,100 --> 00:52:46,500 l was thrown to the floor, handcuffed, and hogtied, and all that... 953 00:52:46,700 --> 00:52:48,300 and dragged out. l told my.. 954 00:52:48,900 --> 00:52:53,200 friend Ellen Fisher, who was there, to call my lawyer, which she did. 955 00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,300 They kept telling me to shut up. 956 00:52:57,700 --> 00:53:01,100 l was taken back to the police station in Havertown, Pennsylvania... 957 00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:05,900 and locked in a cell for about three hours while my car was searched. 958 00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,400 Then a Secret Service agent interviewed me... 959 00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,000 or interrogated me, wanted to know what l was doing with the crystals. 960 00:53:15,100 --> 00:53:17,500 And l said l was making them available to people. 961 00:53:20,300 --> 00:53:23,900 He tried to get me to say l was committing fraud with them which l was not. 962 00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,700 He gotvery irate that l wasn't telling him what he wanted to hear. 963 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,200 Eventually they locked me back in the cell again. 964 00:53:30,300 --> 00:53:32,400 They refused to let me call my lawyer. 965 00:53:33,100 --> 00:53:34,700 ln fact, my rights weren't read to me. 966 00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,000 There were many instances in which l told them... 967 00:53:37,100 --> 00:53:38,800 l wanted to consult with my attorney... 968 00:53:38,900 --> 00:53:42,600 and they said, ''That's not a good idea.'' They wouldn't let me get an attorney 969 00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:44,600 So finally, when... 970 00:53:44,900 --> 00:53:49,900 they all shifted from my apartment to searching my office, actually at work... 971 00:53:50,500 --> 00:53:52,500 l got to drive down in my own car. 972 00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:54,500 l called an attorney... 973 00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,700 and by the time they were at my work, so was an attorney. 974 00:53:58,700 --> 00:54:01,700 The agent in charge, Ken McGuire, in particular... 975 00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,000 gave me a very nasty and disappointed look... 976 00:54:04,100 --> 00:54:06,800 at the fact that l was willing to protect my rights. 977 00:54:07,100 --> 00:54:08,500 lt's really amazing. 978 00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:10,400 He really gave me one of these: 979 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:15,800 ''You shouldn't have done that'' looks. ''Now you're really in for it.'' 980 00:54:15,900 --> 00:54:17,900 NASA people told my parents l was cocky... 981 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,100 because l told them to choose harder passwords. 982 00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,700 l had cops tell me pretty well straight out: 983 00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,900 ''We really didn't want to harm Junior.. 984 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,300 ''so we took his computer and gave it to the boys... 985 00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:32,300 ''over in traffic management, and it was just really groovy.'' 986 00:54:32,700 --> 00:54:36,500 Wait a minute. You're like, ''You took this kid's equipment?'' 987 00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,500 They were like, ''lt was his dad's, but he was using it. 988 00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:42,400 ''Dad should have known better.'' 989 00:54:42,900 --> 00:54:47,700 So this is $4,000 worth of equipment full of heaven only knows what content... 990 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,900 and you just pocketed it, basically? 991 00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,900 Now you're going to charge him? They said, ''lf we charge him... 992 00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,700 ''we've got to bring him up under 14 different interstate laws... 993 00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:59,600 ''he's gonna be a felon and be ruined.'' 994 00:54:59,700 --> 00:55:04,400 ''We explained this to them and they said, 'Take the machine, please.''' 995 00:55:04,700 --> 00:55:06,300 But that's not legal. 996 00:55:06,500 --> 00:55:09,400 That's nothing like legality 997 00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:11,600 lt's blackmail, basically. 998 00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:16,300 lt's like with anyone else. Simply because you have a badge... 999 00:55:17,700 --> 00:55:19,600 doesn't give you the right to be an asshole. 1000 00:55:19,700 --> 00:55:21,900 Unless you'd like me to be an asshole back to you. 1001 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:23,600 l don't care who you are. 1002 00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:28,000 You will obtain the respect from me that you earn. Period. 1003 00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,900 l may have hacked NASA, but who doesn't? 1004 00:55:41,700 --> 00:55:44,600 They say they clocked us at just under 100 miles per hour... 1005 00:55:44,700 --> 00:55:46,400 on the lnterstate in New Mexico. 1006 00:55:46,700 --> 00:55:50,600 And the cop wouldn't let us go until l gave him my Social Security number. 1007 00:55:50,700 --> 00:55:54,400 To make matters worse, he told us we were still 11 hours away from Vegas. 1008 00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:56,900 Things seemed pretty bleak. 1009 00:55:57,700 --> 00:55:59,800 But, then, a miracle happened. 1010 00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:04,300 All right! 1011 00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,800 He said 11 hours and we made it in two and a half. 1012 00:56:08,900 --> 00:56:12,000 These highway patrol people don't know what they're talking about. 1013 00:56:12,100 --> 00:56:13,900 All right, Las Vegas, let's do it! 1014 00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:21,700 Twilight City gonna set my soul lt's gonna set my soul on fire 1015 00:56:22,300 --> 00:56:25,400 Got a whole lot of money that's ready to burn 1016 00:56:25,500 --> 00:56:28,100 So get those stakes up high 1017 00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,600 There's a thousand pretty women waiting out there 1018 00:56:31,900 --> 00:56:35,000 They're all waiting, they're devil-may-care 1019 00:56:35,100 --> 00:56:38,200 And l'm just the devil with love to spare, so 1020 00:56:38,500 --> 00:56:40,700 Viva Las Vegas 1021 00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,900 Viva Las Vegas 1022 00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,000 Viva Las Vegas 1023 00:56:49,300 --> 00:56:54,600 How l wish that there were more Than the 24 hours in the day 1024 00:56:55,700 --> 00:56:59,400 Even if l ran out of speed, boy 1025 00:56:59,700 --> 00:57:01,800 We're looking for the Defcon conference. 1026 00:57:01,900 --> 00:57:03,800 We're supposed to be filming here. 1027 00:57:03,900 --> 00:57:05,200 Defcon conference? 1028 00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,100 lt's like computer hackers.... 1029 00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:09,400 Not that l know of. 1030 00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:14,400 Were they gonna start inside the computer and work their way out? 1031 00:57:15,100 --> 00:57:19,600 lt's about a thousand computer hackers coming here. 1032 00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:21,400 l've never heard of it. 1033 00:57:21,500 --> 00:57:23,600 They must've done a good job keeping this quiet. 1034 00:57:23,700 --> 00:57:25,200 They even got me going. 1035 00:57:25,300 --> 00:57:26,800 Plaza Hotel, Las Vegas? 1036 00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:29,300 New Mexico. 1037 00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,300 lt was a mistake anybody could have made... 1038 00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:37,600 except nobody else seems to have made it. 1039 00:57:37,700 --> 00:57:39,300 At least if we were in New Mexico... 1040 00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:43,300 we could stop by LosAlamos National Labs, home of well-guarded nuclear secrets... 1041 00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:47,000 and one of the many places Shimomura had mysterious connections to. 1042 00:57:47,100 --> 00:57:51,000 lf we could get the word to the people here, we just might turn some heads. 1043 00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,300 ln those few places where we actually did get in... 1044 00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:13,400 we always seemed to stay a bit too long looking at the things... 1045 00:58:13,500 --> 00:58:15,500 we weren't supposed to be looking at. 1046 00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,300 This guy was mean, and told us to get the hell out. 1047 00:58:20,900 --> 00:58:23,800 As we left, we noticed more of these weird guys in fatigues... 1048 00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:25,400 all around the building. 1049 00:58:27,700 --> 00:58:31,200 That's when we got lost on a dark road with no name in New Mexico... 1050 00:58:31,300 --> 00:58:33,800 with a bunch of military zealots surrounding us. 1051 00:58:34,300 --> 00:58:35,500 We got the message. 1052 00:58:55,500 --> 00:58:58,500 Twilight City gonna set my soul 1053 00:58:58,900 --> 00:59:01,300 lt's gonna set my soul on fire 1054 00:59:01,900 --> 00:59:04,800 Got a whole lotta money that's ready to burn 1055 00:59:05,100 --> 00:59:07,600 So get those stakes up high 1056 00:59:08,100 --> 00:59:11,400 There's a thousand pretty women waiting out there 1057 00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,500 They're all waiting, they're devil-may-care 1058 00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:17,700 And l'm just the devil with love to spare, so 1059 00:59:18,100 --> 00:59:20,200 Viva Las Vegas 1060 00:59:21,300 --> 00:59:23,400 Viva Las Vegas 1061 00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:26,600 Viva Las Vegas 1062 00:59:28,700 --> 00:59:34,200 How l wish that there were more Than the 24 hours in the day 1063 00:59:35,300 --> 00:59:39,300 Even if l ran out of speed, boy 1064 00:59:39,500 --> 00:59:42,200 When l started, l never intended it to last this long. 1065 00:59:42,300 --> 00:59:45,500 l thought it was going to be a party and that's it.A one-time deal. 1066 00:59:45,700 --> 00:59:48,600 When we left, everybody said, ''Are you going to do it again?'' 1067 00:59:48,700 --> 00:59:51,700 And l said, ''l guess l could do this again.'' 1068 00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:55,400 Since then, more people get involved, more people say: 1069 00:59:55,500 --> 00:59:57,900 ''We could probably have some music.'' 1070 00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,000 Next thing you know, we've got a live laser light system... 1071 01:00:01,100 --> 01:00:05,200 with LCD wall projectors and DJs coming in from the United Kingdom to spin. 1072 01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,300 lt has taken on this life of its own. 1073 01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:35,300 We are the Ghetto Hackers. 1074 01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,700 Low-class, low-budget, high-octane. 1075 01:00:48,700 --> 01:00:50,200 -Dead! -Cow! 1076 01:00:51,500 --> 01:00:53,700 When l say rock, you say ass! 1077 01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,100 -Rock! -Ass! 1078 01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,000 Thank you very much. Good night. 1079 01:01:00,100 --> 01:01:02,900 l have in my hand proof positive... 1080 01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,300 that NTis not the solution to your computing problems. 1081 01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:10,000 l have captured earlier today on film... 1082 01:01:10,100 --> 01:01:11,400 the blue screen of death... 1083 01:01:11,500 --> 01:01:14,900 at Las Vegas' own MGM Grand Hotel and Casino! 1084 01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:18,500 Thousands showed up. 1085 01:01:18,700 --> 01:01:21,400 Even though the Free Kevin stickers turned into toys... 1086 01:01:21,500 --> 01:01:23,400 at least everybody here knew his name. 1087 01:01:26,700 --> 01:01:30,800 You have to go to www.kevinmitnick.com. Look it up for yourself. 1088 01:01:33,700 --> 01:01:35,700 ''And it doesn't matter what he says about us.'' 1089 01:01:37,500 --> 01:01:39,200 ''What matters is us. 1090 01:01:39,300 --> 01:01:40,800 ''What matters is....'' 1091 01:01:46,100 --> 01:01:47,000 We were hot on the trail. 1092 01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:48,500 We were hot on the trail. 1093 01:01:48,500 --> 01:01:50,400 l don't want to get into Shimomura. 1094 01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:53,800 l think he has a very large ego. 1095 01:01:53,900 --> 01:01:56,600 He's a very bright person and very smart... 1096 01:01:56,900 --> 01:02:00,400 but l think his social skills are lacking. 1097 01:02:00,700 --> 01:02:02,800 For years, Shimomura had been eluding me. 1098 01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:05,900 l couldn't even get on the same TV shows. 1099 01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:08,100 He'd pop up over on CNN... 1100 01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:10,900 while l was stuck over on a broadcast network. 1101 01:02:12,700 --> 01:02:15,200 While he was getting all cozy with Tom Brokaw... 1102 01:02:15,900 --> 01:02:18,300 l was being interrogated by Mike Wallace. 1103 01:02:20,300 --> 01:02:21,900 2600: The Hacker Quarterly? 1104 01:02:22,500 --> 01:02:24,600 Tsutomu wasn't even answering my e-mail. 1105 01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,600 But nowthere would be no escape. 1106 01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:31,500 The San Diego Supercomputer Center, the place where he worked. 1107 01:02:32,100 --> 01:02:33,700 We were closing in. 1108 01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:35,900 You notice how quiet it is? 1109 01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:40,500 Like when a deer is about to be killed by a lion? 1110 01:02:44,100 --> 01:02:46,000 -You're here to see him? -Yes. 1111 01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:48,900 -You're looking for Tsutomu? -Yes. 1112 01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:51,300 -l haven't seen him in three months. -Really? 1113 01:02:52,100 --> 01:02:53,800 Do you know where he is? 1114 01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:55,900 He's not here. 1115 01:02:56,100 --> 01:02:57,300 Let me check with.... 1116 01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:59,600 Did you make arrangements to meet him here? 1117 01:02:59,700 --> 01:03:02,600 They weren'tvery firm but he knew we were coming. 1118 01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,800 -You can try his office. -Did you have an appointment with him? 1119 01:03:07,900 --> 01:03:10,100 -lt was very informal. -l'm sorry. 1120 01:03:10,500 --> 01:03:12,900 You can try the extension, but l haven't seen him. 1121 01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:14,500 Do l know him? 1122 01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:17,500 Just from interacting on.... 1123 01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:20,300 But l'm not.... l can't.... 1124 01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:23,300 Definitely should have called first, l guess. 1125 01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:25,800 lt's just he likes surprises so much. 1126 01:03:26,100 --> 01:03:28,900 This sheet of paper that we wanted him to have. 1127 01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:33,600 He'll know what it's about. He wanted a couple of these stickers as well. 1128 01:03:33,900 --> 01:03:35,300 He wanted these? 1129 01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:39,600 l just wanted to make sure he got them. Great. Thanks so much for your help. 1130 01:03:39,700 --> 01:03:42,600 lt wasn't much better than the reception we got at Miramax. 1131 01:03:42,700 --> 01:03:45,800 But we left our calling card in a place where we knew he'd see it. 1132 01:03:48,500 --> 01:03:52,600 l think it's absurd when l find out that Shimomura, in addition... 1133 01:03:52,700 --> 01:03:55,700 is giving instructions to Skeet Ulrich... 1134 01:03:56,300 --> 01:03:58,400 on howto act more like Kevin. 1135 01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,300 Here's someone instructing him howto act more like Kevin... 1136 01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:05,300 and it's a person that met Kevin only once... 1137 01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:09,200 in court, under circumstances of duress. 1138 01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:13,400 From there how he can ascertain how Kevin acts, l don't know. 1139 01:04:15,100 --> 01:04:18,400 When l step on this curb we're officially on his property. 1140 01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:30,700 Sorry to bother you. We're looking for somebody next door. 1141 01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:33,100 We're not sure if we have the right neighborhood. 1142 01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:36,600 -Tsutomu Shimomura. -He moved. He's long gone. 1143 01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:38,500 How long ago did he move? 1144 01:04:38,700 --> 01:04:40,200 -Seven, eight months? -Really? 1145 01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:42,000 Do you have any idea where he went? 1146 01:04:42,100 --> 01:04:44,900 No, he was renting, and the people who own it moved back in. 1147 01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:47,500 He's in the national news. Are you aware of that? 1148 01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:50,100 -He's what? -There's a movie that they're making. 1149 01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:53,100 -You can see, l'm on the phone. -l'm sorry. 1150 01:04:53,300 --> 01:04:56,200 -They're making a movie about him. -They're making a movie? 1151 01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,100 -lt's all about-- -l read his book. 1152 01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:03,700 They're making a big Hollywood blockbuster about it. 1153 01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:07,100 They may film around here because this is one of the places he lived. 1154 01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,400 -So l could be a star? -You could be a star. 1155 01:05:09,700 --> 01:05:12,700 l've been waiting to be discovered for a long time. 1156 01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:14,600 He could be anywhere. 1157 01:05:17,100 --> 01:05:18,400 Man, that's scary. 1158 01:05:18,500 --> 01:05:21,500 We had one last address to try inside a gated community. 1159 01:05:21,700 --> 01:05:23,800 But this was getting frustrating. 1160 01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:26,100 We have another lead here. 1161 01:05:27,300 --> 01:05:31,000 We're certainly seeing a lot of the nicer places of this neighborhood. 1162 01:05:33,700 --> 01:05:36,200 ''Out of order, please use other door.'' 1163 01:05:41,100 --> 01:05:45,000 You know, if that was a computer, we'd be facing 50 years in jail. 1164 01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,300 They think we're the Publisher's Clearinghouse. 1165 01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,400 lt was like he was a step ahead of us. 1166 01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:01,500 Japanese? Long hair? 1167 01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:05,800 For some reason, people think it's a good idea... 1168 01:06:05,900 --> 01:06:09,000 to have a full directory of every tenant in an apartment complex... 1169 01:06:09,100 --> 01:06:11,200 available to anyone in the world. 1170 01:06:12,100 --> 01:06:14,700 But it gave us the definitive proof we needed: 1171 01:06:14,900 --> 01:06:16,500 Shimomura wasn't here either. 1172 01:06:18,500 --> 01:06:20,800 lt's a pretty cool system, though. 1173 01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:25,400 Let's try a couple of other things. 1174 01:06:25,500 --> 01:06:29,500 We're going to enter the room number this time. 1175 01:06:33,300 --> 01:06:34,300 Now it's dialing. 1176 01:06:35,700 --> 01:06:38,600 That's their whole phone number being broadcast! 1177 01:06:41,300 --> 01:06:43,200 See if we get an answering machine. 1178 01:06:44,700 --> 01:06:47,700 You've reached Amy. l'm sorry l'm unavailable to take your call. 1179 01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:50,300 Please leave a message. l'll get back to you as soon.... 1180 01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:52,700 We've gotten everything we can out of this place... 1181 01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:56,800 and made ourselves look suspicious at the same time so we'd better get out of here. 1182 01:06:58,000 --> 01:06:58,700 On the way out of San Diego, our rental car broke. 1183 01:06:58,700 --> 01:07:00,800 On the way out of San Diego, our rental car broke. 1184 01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:02,200 The trunk wouldn't close. 1185 01:07:02,300 --> 01:07:04,900 We should get this tape of the trunk, too. 1186 01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:09,000 Holy fuck! Oh, my God! Shit! 1187 01:07:12,700 --> 01:07:14,400 We're right underneath the flight path! 1188 01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:17,200 We had to clean everything out so we could exchange it... 1189 01:07:17,300 --> 01:07:20,900 including the disgusting piece of gum that somehow got stuck to the door. 1190 01:07:21,300 --> 01:07:24,200 You know what, l'll use their own key to scrape it off. 1191 01:07:24,300 --> 01:07:25,800 Okay, l'm down. 1192 01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:29,300 This is the most disgusting thing l've ever had to do in my life. 1193 01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,200 You know it's still soft. Oh, God! 1194 01:07:31,900 --> 01:07:32,900 Want some gum? 1195 01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:41,900 This is a scary neighborhood. 1196 01:07:42,500 --> 01:07:45,100 We made it to LosAngeles in a brand-new rental car. 1197 01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:47,700 Our first stop, the University of Southern California... 1198 01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:51,500 where Kevin had been accused of storing software from cellular phone companies. 1199 01:07:51,700 --> 01:07:55,300 USC claimed that somehow caused over $1,000 in damage. 1200 01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:58,000 l wanted to know what computer system gets damaged... 1201 01:07:58,100 --> 01:08:00,000 by having files stored on it! 1202 01:08:00,500 --> 01:08:03,800 l'm Brian Johnson. l'm theAssociate Director of Customer Support. 1203 01:08:03,900 --> 01:08:07,200 Yeah, we're not allowed to comment on any of the security. 1204 01:08:07,300 --> 01:08:09,500 At least we finally managed to find someone... 1205 01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:11,800 who'd say they weren't allowed to say anything. 1206 01:08:11,900 --> 01:08:13,800 That was progress, right? 1207 01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:15,800 The Metropolitan Detention Center in Los Angeles... 1208 01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:17,800 The Metropolitan Detention Center in Los Angeles... 1209 01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,200 where Kevin had been held for three-and-a-half years. 1210 01:08:20,300 --> 01:08:22,700 lt was his 35th birthday and we wanted to say hi. 1211 01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:26,000 The closest we could come was the Mobil station across the street. 1212 01:08:26,100 --> 01:08:29,600 lt was a popular place for all the people who couldn'tvisit their friends. 1213 01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,300 l know he's looking at me, so l can wave hi. 1214 01:08:32,900 --> 01:08:36,600 And he gives me a call and he says, ''lt's cool, you went to see me.'' 1215 01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:39,800 -He's comfortable with that. -How often do you come by? 1216 01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:42,200 Like, almost once a week. 1217 01:08:42,300 --> 01:08:45,400 When l drop off my sister that goes to see him. 1218 01:08:45,500 --> 01:08:48,300 -How come you can't go in there and visit? -lt's too strict. 1219 01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:51,400 l wouldn't know why the reason they don't let us go in. 1220 01:08:51,500 --> 01:08:53,400 -You're his brother? -He's my brother-in-law. 1221 01:08:53,500 --> 01:08:54,800 Married to my sister. 1222 01:08:54,900 --> 01:08:58,500 -So it's only immediate family? -Yeah, immediate family. So l can't see him. 1223 01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:01,000 He talks to me through the phone and letters. 1224 01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:03,500 -l just come and say hi. -What's he in for? 1225 01:09:04,900 --> 01:09:08,800 l don't know what the reason why he's in, but he's just in. 1226 01:09:10,900 --> 01:09:14,400 And you bring your friends with you? Are they part of the family, too? 1227 01:09:14,500 --> 01:09:16,500 Yeah, they know my brother-in-law 1228 01:09:16,900 --> 01:09:18,900 We grew up together so.... 1229 01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:23,400 Have you heard of Kevin Mitnick, the person we're here for? 1230 01:09:23,500 --> 01:09:25,800 -l never heard of him. -He's a computer hacker. 1231 01:09:25,900 --> 01:09:28,100 -You know what computer hackers are? -Yeah. 1232 01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:30,700 He's been in there for three-and-a-half years... 1233 01:09:31,700 --> 01:09:35,600 -and he hasn't had a trial yet. -He should get a trial, you know? 1234 01:09:35,700 --> 01:09:39,900 He's working on it, he's trying, but the wheels of justice move very slowly. 1235 01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:41,400 That's something true. 1236 01:09:42,700 --> 01:09:44,200 They're not the ones that-- 1237 01:09:46,500 --> 01:09:47,700 Sure. 1238 01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:50,900 There's so many people, l think. lt's overcrowded. 1239 01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:55,200 l wouldn't even know what to tell you, l've never been in that system. 1240 01:09:55,300 --> 01:09:58,000 He must've went in somebody's government-- 1241 01:09:58,100 --> 01:09:59,800 He must've pissed somebody off. 1242 01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:02,400 Pissed somebody off in the government pretty good. 1243 01:10:02,500 --> 01:10:05,700 They probably laughed and said, ''You have to stay there a while.'' 1244 01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:08,000 That's not fair but that's the way it is. 1245 01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:10,400 When the windows are only a couple of inches wide... 1246 01:10:10,500 --> 01:10:12,800 it's hard to find the person you're looking for... 1247 01:10:12,900 --> 01:10:15,200 even if you know exactly what time to look. 1248 01:10:15,300 --> 01:10:17,100 And then we heard it. 1249 01:10:23,900 --> 01:10:25,100 Yeah, what was that? 1250 01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:27,000 l heard a pounding on the window 1251 01:10:29,900 --> 01:10:31,600 1,2,3,4,5. 1252 01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:40,300 He's shining a light or something. 1253 01:10:46,500 --> 01:10:47,600 l can see him now. 1254 01:10:47,700 --> 01:10:50,000 Was that you?That was you. 1255 01:10:50,500 --> 01:10:54,300 You were pounding on the glass, right? We heard that across the street. 1256 01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:57,900 We were looking at the wrong window. Then we heard this pounding noise. 1257 01:10:58,000 --> 01:10:59,900 Come back to the window and wave some more. 1258 01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:01,400 Can you do that? 1259 01:11:01,900 --> 01:11:05,800 We'll put a sticker up, we just don't want the sticker to come back to haunt you. 1260 01:11:05,900 --> 01:11:07,200 He wants us to put a sticker. 1261 01:11:07,300 --> 01:11:09,400 -He wants a sticker? -A sticker would be cool. 1262 01:11:09,500 --> 01:11:10,900 We can see your hand. 1263 01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:13,700 l doubt you can stick your whole head through the window 1264 01:11:14,100 --> 01:11:16,000 Splotch your face up against the window 1265 01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:18,900 Nowthat we know it's the right one, we can zoom in on it. 1266 01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:21,800 All right, cool. We'll see you in two minutes? 1267 01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:25,300 Okay, great. See you then. Bye. 1268 01:11:26,300 --> 01:11:29,300 He's going to be up there in two minutes. That was definitely him. 1269 01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:32,600 l wish we could go in there and see him without having to do this. 1270 01:11:32,700 --> 01:11:34,400 But, hell, l'll take it. 1271 01:11:35,500 --> 01:11:38,600 We found out that our filming the prison had caused such a stir.. 1272 01:11:38,700 --> 01:11:40,600 that every single prisoner was locked down... 1273 01:11:40,700 --> 01:11:43,200 confined to their cell for the rest of the day 1274 01:11:43,700 --> 01:11:47,000 And Kevin told us it was the best time he had had in years. 1275 01:11:48,900 --> 01:11:50,000 Like this. 1276 01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:56,200 That's cool. 1277 01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:04,000 Even the manager of the station said it was all right. 1278 01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:15,400 This guy in the blue car just gave me $6 for the defense fund. 1279 01:12:15,500 --> 01:12:18,500 No kidding.Thanks!That's great. That's amazing. 1280 01:12:18,700 --> 01:12:21,700 Look where l put the sticker. l got permission from the owner. 1281 01:12:21,900 --> 01:12:23,200 lt'll be gone tomorrow. 1282 01:12:23,300 --> 01:12:25,200 -That's great. -lt'll be there for a while. 1283 01:12:25,300 --> 01:12:26,900 -He let you do that? -Yeah, l asked him. 1284 01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:30,400 Randolph's gonna get gas and he's gonna fucking shit a brick. 1285 01:12:30,700 --> 01:12:32,200 He was never served... 1286 01:12:34,300 --> 01:12:36,600 with a warrant for his arrest... 1287 01:12:36,900 --> 01:12:41,300 for the supervised release violations during the period of his supervised release. 1288 01:12:41,500 --> 01:12:46,200 So by the time that he was done and went on his way... 1289 01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:51,400 there's no indication that he was aware that such a warrant existed. 1290 01:12:54,700 --> 01:12:57,100 Damn! You know, Sprint really sucks. 1291 01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:00,700 We wanted the entire city of Los Angeles to know about Kevin. 1292 01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:04,000 And what better way than to put the message... 1293 01:13:04,100 --> 01:13:06,600 on the most famous billboard in town? 1294 01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:11,600 lt took us hours to climb that thing. 1295 01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:16,300 We honestly didn't knowthere was a road that went straight up the back. 1296 01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:17,900 But we made it. 1297 01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:20,100 Funny thing, though. 1298 01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:23,000 We couldn't find anybody who saw our Free Kevin banner. 1299 01:13:24,900 --> 01:13:27,500 Later, we went to the most famous movie theater in town... 1300 01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:30,100 to try and spread the word from up close. 1301 01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,300 Here, Free Kevin! Free Kevin Mitnick. 1302 01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:40,400 lt won't bite you. Speak English? 1303 01:13:40,500 --> 01:13:43,100 We're trying to get the message across to Miramax... 1304 01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:46,600 that it's wrong to release a movie that's supposed to be factual... 1305 01:13:46,700 --> 01:13:47,900 that's based on real events.... 1306 01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:50,700 People will see this movie and think this is a true story... 1307 01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:53,300 when so much of it has been completely fabricated. 1308 01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:55,100 -l've heard about this guy. -Really? 1309 01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:57,700 Here, help stop a movie about a computer hacker? 1310 01:14:00,500 --> 01:14:02,400 -You got a problem? -l got a problem. 1311 01:14:02,500 --> 01:14:04,300 Come back and tell me about it. 1312 01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:06,800 Pussy! 1313 01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:10,100 lt's hard to believe someone in this country... 1314 01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:14,300 could be in jail for three-and-a-half years, held in a maximum-security facility... 1315 01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:16,100 no bail, no trial. 1316 01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:18,400 l don't find thatvery hard to believe. 1317 01:14:18,500 --> 01:14:21,100 -l read a book, Takedown. -Takedown, that's right. 1318 01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:22,900 l read like half of it. 1319 01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:27,200 He gets out of jail, he'll probably take over everything. 1320 01:14:27,900 --> 01:14:31,000 That's the problem. People think that, but it's not true. 1321 01:14:31,100 --> 01:14:34,100 You don't think he could hack anything if he just gets online? 1322 01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:36,200 He can't hack anything just by getting online. 1323 01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:38,500 l mean, you gotta have a program and whatever.... 1324 01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:40,300 Why are you recording this? 1325 01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:43,700 Hey, read about Kevin Mitnick? They're making a movie about this guy. 1326 01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:48,500 He's the best guy ever! l know him since l was, like day one. 1327 01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:50,200 Yeah, me too, yo! 1328 01:14:57,100 --> 01:15:00,200 He's never done anything wrong, he's never hurt anyone... 1329 01:15:00,300 --> 01:15:02,700 and he's being treated like that in this country. 1330 01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:05,300 That is theAmerican way. Wake up. 1331 01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:10,300 Kevin was denied bail. Even a bail hearing. 1332 01:15:11,900 --> 01:15:15,500 lf you recall, even Ted Kaczynski got a bail hearing. 1333 01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:19,100 His bail was turned down. You're entitled to a bail hearing. 1334 01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:21,700 On the other hand, Kevin... 1335 01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:26,100 is getting treatment that is outside the law 1336 01:15:26,900 --> 01:15:31,800 And that's what makes itvery difficult for him to mount a legal defense. 1337 01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:35,000 He's not being treated in a legal manner 1338 01:15:35,300 --> 01:15:38,600 l've never heard of anything even approaching this level of... 1339 01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:42,800 ...confinement prior to a trial. 1340 01:15:43,300 --> 01:15:44,900 Murderers get bail. 1341 01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:48,300 Armed robbers get bail. 1342 01:15:49,300 --> 01:15:51,700 The fear of what he's going to do... 1343 01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:55,300 from a push-button telephone in the general population of a cell... 1344 01:15:55,500 --> 01:15:59,900 shows again a lack of technical understanding on the part of the prison... 1345 01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:02,800 and judicial system.And l think that's sad. 1346 01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:05,600 And he is right nowthe victim of that. 1347 01:16:07,900 --> 01:16:08,800 On our way up the coast, we dropped in on Sun. 1348 01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:10,300 On our way up the coast, we dropped in on Sun. 1349 01:16:10,300 --> 01:16:12,300 According to a letter we got our hands on... 1350 01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:14,700 they said Kevin's acquisition of their source code... 1351 01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:17,600 represented hundreds of millions of dollars in damage. 1352 01:16:17,700 --> 01:16:19,800 Nowthey give the source code away for free. 1353 01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:21,700 Something wasn't right. 1354 01:16:21,900 --> 01:16:22,900 So we're right here. 1355 01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:25,700 On the other side of the freeway there's the other Sun. 1356 01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:29,800 And then further up is their big campus. 1357 01:16:29,900 --> 01:16:33,800 Basically, all of this blank area... 1358 01:16:33,900 --> 01:16:36,800 is actually Sun buildings and Sun streets. 1359 01:16:36,900 --> 01:16:39,800 We knew where we were, now we just needed someone to talk to. 1360 01:16:39,900 --> 01:16:42,100 What number do we call and who do we speak to? 1361 01:16:42,200 --> 01:16:44,000 1-800-USA4SUN. 1362 01:16:44,100 --> 01:16:46,200 They can direct you to whoever you need. 1363 01:16:46,300 --> 01:16:47,800 USA4SUN? 1364 01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:50,300 Can you remember or do you want me to write it down? 1365 01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:53,900 The receptionist wouldn't let us talk to anyone unless we called. 1366 01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:56,500 But we slipped a few leaflets onto their coffee table. 1367 01:16:56,600 --> 01:16:58,500 l thought she was being kind of patronizing. 1368 01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:01,400 ''Do you want me to write that down or can you remember it?'' 1369 01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:02,900 l can remember it. 1370 01:17:05,900 --> 01:17:07,500 USA4SUN, right? 1371 01:17:07,700 --> 01:17:10,800 -Was that it? Or was it SUN4USA? Fuck! -Yeah. 1372 01:17:10,900 --> 01:17:12,000 You sure? 1373 01:17:13,100 --> 01:17:15,000 Should l run in and ask her again? 1374 01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:17,400 ''Thank you for calling Sun.'' 1375 01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:26,600 l have a rotary phone. l'm not going to press any buttons. 1376 01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:34,100 l'm pressing zero. 1377 01:17:38,100 --> 01:17:40,200 l'm probably going to get her,too. 1378 01:17:41,900 --> 01:17:43,800 My call ''may be monitored.'' 1379 01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:47,200 Another machine. 1380 01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:53,400 They want my eight-digit lD number! 1381 01:17:54,900 --> 01:17:56,700 This is bullshit, man. 1382 01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:00,500 They've got me waiting for a customer service representative. 1383 01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:02,600 lt's not exactly what l had in mind. 1384 01:18:03,300 --> 01:18:05,400 But let's see what happens. 1385 01:18:06,700 --> 01:18:08,700 My call is ''very important to them.'' 1386 01:18:11,900 --> 01:18:13,200 He hung up! 1387 01:18:13,700 --> 01:18:15,000 He hung up on me! 1388 01:18:15,500 --> 01:18:18,600 Maybe he didn't hang up on me but he hung up all the same. 1389 01:18:18,700 --> 01:18:20,500 Fuck!All right. 1390 01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:26,100 l think on their web page there's a direct public relations number 1391 01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:29,100 But we're not on their web page, we're in their parking lot. 1392 01:18:30,500 --> 01:18:33,400 Wait a minute. You don't have your Ricochet modem? 1393 01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:35,200 -Not today. -You're not prepared! 1394 01:18:35,300 --> 01:18:37,500 Shit. We can't access the web from here... 1395 01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:39,800 we're outside Sun and we can't get on the net... 1396 01:18:39,900 --> 01:18:42,200 to find out what their phone number is! 1397 01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:45,600 l'm gonna try this number one more time. 1398 01:18:45,700 --> 01:18:49,700 l'm gonna be a little patient here. Assume maybe they made a little mistake. 1399 01:18:50,500 --> 01:18:53,700 Okay, now l am waiting for the corporate switchboard. 1400 01:18:56,300 --> 01:18:58,700 Hi, Pete, my name is Emmanuel. 1401 01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:01,400 l'm trying to reach somebody in Public Relations. 1402 01:19:01,500 --> 01:19:06,400 l'm hoping somebody can contact me concerning the Kevin Mitnick case... 1403 01:19:06,900 --> 01:19:09,400 and how it involved Sun. We're doing a documentary. 1404 01:19:09,500 --> 01:19:12,800 We came to the corporate headquarters hoping to get an appointment... 1405 01:19:12,900 --> 01:19:16,900 and they gave us a phone number and we're trying to do just that... 1406 01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:18,700 so if you could get back to me.... 1407 01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:20,300 They have a fortress here. 1408 01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:25,000 They have that mighty guard there at the front that won't let anybody by 1409 01:19:25,300 --> 01:19:27,800 And then the voice mail guard here... 1410 01:19:27,900 --> 01:19:30,600 that won't let anybody actually call and speak to a person. 1411 01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:33,300 Maybe they'll call back, maybe they won't. 1412 01:19:33,500 --> 01:19:36,300 This is the red hotline. lf that rings, we'll know 1413 01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:39,600 We have GPS, good. 1414 01:19:40,100 --> 01:19:42,200 GPS but no modem. Man, that sucks. 1415 01:19:43,900 --> 01:19:47,300 l was using it last night and it was gone in the morning which means.... 1416 01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:49,700 Sorry, no cameras in front of the building. 1417 01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:51,800 How about if we film in that direction? 1418 01:19:52,700 --> 01:19:54,500 We can't have the cameras filming. 1419 01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:56,500 Okay, 'cause we were just filming us. 1420 01:19:56,600 --> 01:19:59,600 No, l can understand that, but unfortunately... 1421 01:19:59,900 --> 01:20:01,400 Wow, this was a new one. 1422 01:20:01,500 --> 01:20:04,600 We couldn't even film ourselves in Sun's parking lot. 1423 01:20:04,700 --> 01:20:07,600 Corporate paranoia was at an all-time high. 1424 01:20:07,700 --> 01:20:10,700 And, needless to say, Pete never called us back. 1425 01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:11,900 Meanwhile, John Markoff had agreed to talk to us. 1426 01:20:11,900 --> 01:20:13,800 Meanwhile, John Markoff had agreed to talk to us. 1427 01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:15,900 Maybe now we'd finally get some answers. 1428 01:20:16,300 --> 01:20:18,800 We made it to San Francisco on the exact same day... 1429 01:20:18,900 --> 01:20:22,000 that psychologists from around the world gathered for a convention. 1430 01:20:22,100 --> 01:20:24,600 Maybe because so many people in that area were depressed. 1431 01:20:24,700 --> 01:20:26,700 They have counseling phones on the bridges... 1432 01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:28,800 because so many people are jumping off them. 1433 01:20:28,900 --> 01:20:30,600 But San Francisco was a friendly town... 1434 01:20:30,700 --> 01:20:33,700 where people felt safe leaving their trash unattended. 1435 01:20:34,100 --> 01:20:35,500 But more importantly... 1436 01:20:35,900 --> 01:20:40,400 the psychologists wound up taking almost every hotel room in the entire city... 1437 01:20:43,300 --> 01:20:45,400 even the old-fashioned ones. 1438 01:20:48,100 --> 01:20:50,600 We were beginning to get desperate. 1439 01:20:52,300 --> 01:20:55,900 Then we found a hotel that was almost completely deserted. 1440 01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:57,500 We never did find out why. 1441 01:20:59,900 --> 01:21:02,700 Markoff mentions certain stories. 1442 01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:06,700 He'll say, ''lt's been said that....'' or ''Other people have said that....'' 1443 01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:11,600 And he'll come up with these stories like he shut down judges'TRW ratings... 1444 01:21:11,700 --> 01:21:13,500 shut off power.... lt's bullshit. 1445 01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:18,900 l don't think John Markoff did it because he wanted to destroy Kevin. 1446 01:21:19,100 --> 01:21:23,300 But l think he did it to keep Kevin's evil image. 1447 01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:25,700 Maybe he believed some of the things himself. 1448 01:21:26,100 --> 01:21:28,100 Okay, isn't a newspaperman... 1449 01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:32,200 supposed to investigate something before they publish it... 1450 01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:35,000 before they put it in the newspaper as fact? 1451 01:21:35,500 --> 01:21:38,900 l know Spencer Tracy and Clark Gable always did. 1452 01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:47,200 We didn't know what we were walking into. Would Markoff tell us things about Mitnick... 1453 01:21:47,300 --> 01:21:49,900 that would shock and horrify us? Or would he realize... 1454 01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:53,000 how much his front-page stories and books had demonized Kevin... 1455 01:21:53,100 --> 01:21:55,800 helping to put him in the lousy place he was still in? 1456 01:21:55,900 --> 01:21:57,900 This was our one chance to make a difference. 1457 01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:01,500 And, more than anything, we wanted to be fair. 1458 01:22:01,900 --> 01:22:05,700 So we came up with the Markoff Meter. We set a bar on his left and right side... 1459 01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:09,600 and resolved not to judge him badly until he said six bad or inaccurate things. 1460 01:22:09,700 --> 01:22:11,400 And if he said six good things... 1461 01:22:11,500 --> 01:22:14,400 well, then, the hacker world would just have to deal with it. 1462 01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:18,400 Maybe this wouldn't be so bad. 1463 01:22:22,700 --> 01:22:24,800 Nowthere's an easy point for common courtesy. 1464 01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:28,300 l wanted to get to the heart of the matter 1465 01:22:28,500 --> 01:22:32,300 Like howthey knew it was Kevin they were chasing in the first place? 1466 01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:37,000 When l called the Qualcomm guys, they had been talking to the FBl. 1467 01:22:37,100 --> 01:22:40,800 And the FBl believed that it was Kevin who had social engineered them. 1468 01:22:40,900 --> 01:22:41,900 Why? 1469 01:22:44,100 --> 01:22:47,300 l don't know enough about what was going on... 1470 01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:49,000 inside the FBl investigation. 1471 01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:52,000 That's a good question. l don't know why 1472 01:22:52,100 --> 01:22:55,700 But the FBl told the Qualcomm people that it was Kevin. 1473 01:22:55,900 --> 01:22:58,700 And, to my mind, as a reporter, it fit Kevin's M.O. 1474 01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:01,100 -Which is what? -Social engineering. 1475 01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:02,500 Really good social engineering. 1476 01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:04,700 But there are thousands of hackers out there-- 1477 01:23:04,800 --> 01:23:06,400 That's true. 1478 01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:08,600 l'm not saying it's proof. 1479 01:23:08,700 --> 01:23:11,100 l'm simply saying the FBl believed it was Kevin. 1480 01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:15,100 Did they hear a voice or did they have a voice recording? 1481 01:23:15,900 --> 01:23:19,900 Did they have a voice recording? That's a good question. What did they have? 1482 01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:21,600 This we couldn't forgive. 1483 01:23:21,700 --> 01:23:25,500 Before you print front-page stories about people eluding the authorities... 1484 01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:27,900 shouldn't you have some real conclusive evidence? 1485 01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:30,800 What did Kevin do that was diferent? 1486 01:23:30,900 --> 01:23:34,100 He had a reputation as being a very good social engineer. 1487 01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:38,800 l've heard some tapes, l've heard some people assert this. 1488 01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:43,400 lf he in fact was the person who was at Qualcomm... 1489 01:23:43,500 --> 01:23:45,600 then he was a good social engineer. 1490 01:23:47,400 --> 01:23:51,200 Nowthat's better. No need to be stingy with the compliments, after all. 1491 01:23:51,300 --> 01:23:53,500 One thing that's been following Kevin Mitnick... 1492 01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:58,300 since the first story Markoff wrote about him is this myth about breaking into NORAD. 1493 01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:02,400 When you say something like that enough times, people start to believe it. 1494 01:24:02,900 --> 01:24:05,900 And in Kevin's case, it really made him into a villain. 1495 01:24:06,500 --> 01:24:08,900 So where did the NORAD stuff come from? 1496 01:24:09,500 --> 01:24:10,900 The NORAD stuff... 1497 01:24:11,500 --> 01:24:14,400 is stuff that l got from someone... 1498 01:24:14,500 --> 01:24:17,000 who was in legal trouble with Kevin early on. 1499 01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:21,900 So l have not been able to interview Kevin face to face. 1500 01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:25,700 l've heard he said that it's inaccurate but l haven't been able to ask him. 1501 01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:28,200 The story did come from a friend of his. 1502 01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:32,000 l knowthere are lots of stories and you gotta sort through them. 1503 01:24:32,700 --> 01:24:34,700 But what stories have stuck? 1504 01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:39,100 l remember the Kristy McNichol thing. That didn't stick. NORAD didn't stick. 1505 01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:43,800 Security Pacific l think is probably one that stuck, that probably should stick. 1506 01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:47,000 -You know about that? -The bank that he got a job at-- 1507 01:24:47,100 --> 01:24:49,700 That's right. And then there was a press release... 1508 01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:52,500 that suggested that the bank was in financial trouble... 1509 01:24:52,600 --> 01:24:55,500 though they managed to keep it of the wire, it almost went on. 1510 01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:57,500 But what links that to Kevin? 1511 01:24:57,600 --> 01:25:01,400 The police investigators that we interviewed believed it was Kevin. 1512 01:25:01,600 --> 01:25:03,000 Based on what? 1513 01:25:06,700 --> 01:25:08,200 Based on what.... 1514 01:25:09,100 --> 01:25:12,300 Just coincidence of things. Who else would do something like that? 1515 01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:15,300 You've got to be kidding! 1516 01:25:15,500 --> 01:25:18,000 You used ''who else'' to pin a crime on the guy... 1517 01:25:18,100 --> 01:25:19,900 on the front page of the NewYork Times... 1518 01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:22,600 without even using the word ''allegedly'' anywhere? 1519 01:25:22,700 --> 01:25:25,500 This was reported as fact but it was never backed up. 1520 01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:27,800 Just like NORAD, just like Kristy McNichol... 1521 01:25:27,900 --> 01:25:31,300 just like everything that made them want to catch Kevin so badly. 1522 01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:33,800 Let's look at the issue of solitary confinement. 1523 01:25:33,900 --> 01:25:36,000 lt wasn't mentioned in the front-page article... 1524 01:25:36,100 --> 01:25:39,700 that Kevin was in solitary for 8 months and was desperate not to go back... 1525 01:25:39,900 --> 01:25:42,600 and that this above all was what made him run. 1526 01:25:42,700 --> 01:25:45,200 l mean, he didn't want to go back to jail. 1527 01:25:45,300 --> 01:25:47,700 Not just jail, solitary confinement. Eight months. 1528 01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:50,300 Was he in solitary before? This was his first time. 1529 01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:51,600 1989. 1530 01:25:51,700 --> 01:25:54,500 He spent 8 months in solitary in 1989? l didn't realize. 1531 01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:59,000 Wait. He didn't spend 8 months in prison. He was only in prison for six months in '89. 1532 01:26:00,500 --> 01:26:03,600 You've written two books on the guy as well as countless articles. 1533 01:26:03,700 --> 01:26:05,800 You're somewhat of an expert on Kevin Mitnick... 1534 01:26:05,900 --> 01:26:08,200 and you didn't know he was in solitary confinement? 1535 01:26:08,300 --> 01:26:10,500 Or even how long his sentence was? 1536 01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:13,800 For the record, Mitnick spent a year in prison in 1988... 1537 01:26:13,900 --> 01:26:16,300 eight months of which was in solitary confinement... 1538 01:26:16,400 --> 01:26:18,800 plus another six months in a halfway house. 1539 01:26:19,300 --> 01:26:21,800 With the psychologists in town we could confirm... 1540 01:26:21,900 --> 01:26:25,000 locking Kevin in solitary was a fucked-up thing to do. 1541 01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:33,400 l think it's inhumane, and l think there are better ways to handle our problems. 1542 01:26:33,500 --> 01:26:37,100 Obviously if this person has been able to do some of the things... 1543 01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:40,600 that they think he was doing with a computer, he's very bright. 1544 01:26:40,700 --> 01:26:43,200 That's a real talent that's being wasted. 1545 01:26:43,500 --> 01:26:47,500 And, to lock him up, especially in solitary confinement for 8 months.... 1546 01:26:47,700 --> 01:26:49,900 We wouldn't treat an animal that way 1547 01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:53,600 And yet, this is a talented individual? Excuse me. 1548 01:26:54,500 --> 01:26:56,900 -lt's not right.Thank you. -Thanks very much. 1549 01:26:57,300 --> 01:27:00,100 Wait, he was in solitary the entire time he was at Lompoc? 1550 01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:02,600 A large amount of the time. Eight months. 1551 01:27:03,400 --> 01:27:05,100 Yeah, that's pretty hard. 1552 01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:10,500 Okay. Markoff gains a point for that show of humanity. 1553 01:27:11,100 --> 01:27:14,300 Now, here's something interesting. When Kevin was on the run... 1554 01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:17,800 he communicated with an lsraeli hacker known as jsz... 1555 01:27:17,900 --> 01:27:22,100 who's believed to be the mastermind behind the hacking that Kevin was blamed for. 1556 01:27:22,200 --> 01:27:24,600 Yet Markoff never wrote a story about him... 1557 01:27:24,700 --> 01:27:27,900 and didn't even followthrough when jsz moved to New York. 1558 01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:30,700 ln fact, none of the authorities seemed to care either... 1559 01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:33,400 almost as if these crimes were really trivial. 1560 01:27:33,500 --> 01:27:36,500 Nowthat would be a great story, wouldn't it, John? 1561 01:27:36,800 --> 01:27:38,500 l thought a lot about that. 1562 01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:43,500 l just haven't had time to do the reporting. l've got a day-to-day beat out here. 1563 01:27:44,100 --> 01:27:47,400 You're right. lt's probably a great story l would love to talk to jsz. 1564 01:27:47,500 --> 01:27:50,900 -l should come to New York-- -That story was going on back then. 1565 01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:54,600 Jsz was supposedly the mastermind behind everything. 1566 01:27:55,000 --> 01:27:56,900 l never knew what the relations were. 1567 01:27:57,000 --> 01:28:00,000 The only thing l could say that l knew.. 1568 01:28:00,100 --> 01:28:03,500 was that jsz and Kevin... 1569 01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:06,100 were actively trading information and software. 1570 01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:10,200 That's what l knew. l knew nothing about masterminding. 1571 01:28:12,100 --> 01:28:15,500 lf you asked me to reconstruct just from what l knew.. 1572 01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:18,900 it was jsz provided the tools and Kevin made the attack. 1573 01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:20,500 But l have no idea if that's true. 1574 01:28:21,900 --> 01:28:23,100 No idea? 1575 01:28:23,700 --> 01:28:28,600 lsn't this what the book, series of articles, and nowthe film are supposedly based on... 1576 01:28:28,700 --> 01:28:30,600 what Kevin actually did? 1577 01:28:31,200 --> 01:28:33,600 l was amazed by what he didn't know 1578 01:28:33,900 --> 01:28:37,600 But there was more that he did know and had never talked about before. 1579 01:28:37,700 --> 01:28:40,700 But one interesting thing that hasn't been made public. 1580 01:28:41,000 --> 01:28:44,800 You know, so much was made of the fact that the credit cards were never used. 1581 01:28:44,900 --> 01:28:46,300 They were used. 1582 01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:49,700 An American Express card, part of the Netcom collection... 1583 01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:54,300 was used in Raleigh within two days after Kevin was arrested. 1584 01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:56,800 So who used it? 1585 01:28:56,900 --> 01:29:00,400 -How did you find this out? -l've just known it for a long time. 1586 01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:03,000 You're saying the credit card was used in Raleigh... 1587 01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:05,600 and it was used after he was arrested? 1588 01:29:05,700 --> 01:29:09,600 There are indications that there was someone Kevin was in contact with... 1589 01:29:09,700 --> 01:29:12,900 who knewthis and may have been active in the Raleigh area. 1590 01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:15,800 All l'm saying is there's some evidence. 1591 01:29:15,900 --> 01:29:17,600 How come this wasn't in the book? 1592 01:29:17,700 --> 01:29:19,700 How come it wasn't in the book. Good question. 1593 01:29:19,800 --> 01:29:22,200 l don't know why we didn't put it in the book. 1594 01:29:23,500 --> 01:29:25,100 This was really getting annoying. 1595 01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:28,300 He didn't follow up on the most interesting part of the story.. 1596 01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:31,600 and he didn't mention the fact about the credit cards until now? 1597 01:29:31,700 --> 01:29:34,700 One more remark like that and it's all over for Markoff. 1598 01:29:37,100 --> 01:29:40,700 Look how many people are standing here and not one person took my brochure. 1599 01:29:40,800 --> 01:29:44,100 Look at all these people. Not one of them took this. 1600 01:29:45,500 --> 01:29:47,000 Valuable coupons! 1601 01:29:48,400 --> 01:29:50,000 What are they doing now? 1602 01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:52,900 Oh, Kevin Mitnick! He's the computer wizard. 1603 01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:56,500 The way that the Japanese wizard found him was very interesting. 1604 01:29:56,800 --> 01:30:00,000 Mitnick respected the Japanese wizard for tracking him. 1605 01:30:00,100 --> 01:30:01,300 On the other hand... 1606 01:30:01,400 --> 01:30:05,100 since the whole computer business is stupid and ridiculous to begin with... 1607 01:30:05,200 --> 01:30:09,500 why should Mitnick suffer for a ridiculous assault on the culture... 1608 01:30:09,700 --> 01:30:12,000 namely the computer. So that's it. 1609 01:30:12,100 --> 01:30:14,100 -What do you think of computers? -l hate them. 1610 01:30:14,300 --> 01:30:15,200 Why? 1611 01:30:15,700 --> 01:30:20,500 Because they're not like feeling skin, and they're not like walking in the forest. 1612 01:30:20,900 --> 01:30:24,100 And one can get lost deeply in them. 1613 01:30:24,200 --> 01:30:26,900 My son, of course, is in that world. 1614 01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:31,600 These people are computerphiles and he's a computerphobe. 1615 01:30:31,700 --> 01:30:35,500 Hackers are all right because they're anarchists, that's fine. 1616 01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:37,500 But the rest of it.... 1617 01:30:38,200 --> 01:30:40,100 -This is bullshit. -lt's pornography! 1618 01:30:40,300 --> 01:30:41,700 This is such bullshit! 1619 01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:44,300 l like Chaos Computer Club, l like anarchy. 1620 01:30:44,500 --> 01:30:46,800 -You know Chaos Computer Club? -No, but l like the whole idea. 1621 01:30:46,900 --> 01:30:48,800 He's never heard of it. He's saying this because-- 1622 01:30:48,900 --> 01:30:52,000 No, it's great. But Mitnick, it's ridiculous. 1623 01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:54,300 Look, an activist. 1624 01:30:56,500 --> 01:30:58,500 Look, a bag of artificial intelligence. 1625 01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:02,600 They're from the '80s but l still bought them. Just to get back to my roots. 1626 01:31:02,700 --> 01:31:06,100 lt's like the government's making him look like.... 1627 01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:10,900 lt's to create a hacker mythology so they can deprive other people of privacy... 1628 01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:12,200 and other stuff like that. 1629 01:31:12,300 --> 01:31:16,200 He hasn't done anything wrong. He hasn't done any financial damage to anybody 1630 01:31:16,300 --> 01:31:18,500 He's basically just like a scapegoat. 1631 01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:22,400 l think most of the kids that l hang out with are cool, geeky, hacker types. 1632 01:31:22,500 --> 01:31:26,500 They understand. Then there's my mom and everybody else. 1633 01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:29,500 Why would they have any reason to believe anything... 1634 01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:31,800 other than he's a total scumbag who.... 1635 01:31:31,900 --> 01:31:34,900 You know, like WarGames, the hacking. 1636 01:31:35,100 --> 01:31:38,500 That guy! Didn't he break into massive computer systems? 1637 01:31:38,600 --> 01:31:42,200 He's not accused of selling information, of destroying computers... 1638 01:31:42,300 --> 01:31:44,100 he's just accused of copying files. 1639 01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:47,200 Three-and-a-half years in prison for that. How does that sound? 1640 01:31:47,300 --> 01:31:49,300 Yeah, cool, wow, all right, great. Register to vote? 1641 01:31:49,500 --> 01:31:51,000 You're an activist, too? 1642 01:31:51,100 --> 01:31:53,100 lmagine if somebody made a film about you... 1643 01:31:53,200 --> 01:31:56,300 and they get this totally evil kind of guy to play you... 1644 01:31:56,600 --> 01:32:01,100 and take everything that you ever did and make you look like you're really terrible? 1645 01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:05,600 Look, there he is cheating on a crossword puzzle, too!That guy! 1646 01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:11,500 Many interesting items relating to Telegraph Street. 1647 01:32:11,600 --> 01:32:14,500 Street scene, one of the best places for street scene material! 1648 01:32:14,600 --> 01:32:16,700 Here on the street scene... 1649 01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:19,400 we've got newspapers, we got novels... 1650 01:32:19,500 --> 01:32:23,400 we got documentary calendars, nine calendars for nine years, man. 1651 01:32:23,800 --> 01:32:27,900 What sysadmin is gonna have dot slash in their path before usr/local/bin? 1652 01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:31,500 lt was cool. lt's about using SUlD and making a script called ls... 1653 01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:35,600 and keeping it in your home directory and creating a file with escape characters... 1654 01:32:35,700 --> 01:32:38,500 pretending to be a lamer, ''l need help deleting this.'' 1655 01:32:38,600 --> 01:32:40,600 And then they go and do an ls.... 1656 01:32:40,700 --> 01:32:45,200 But what sysadmin is gonna have dot slash in their path before usr/local/bin? 1657 01:32:45,800 --> 01:32:48,200 l don't know man, some of those hackers... 1658 01:32:48,800 --> 01:32:51,700 when l'm on my computer send me all this shit all at once. 1659 01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:53,600 -Like what? -l don't know. 1660 01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:56,000 All these messages. Makes my computer-- 1661 01:32:56,100 --> 01:32:58,800 -Are you onAOL by any chance? -No. Prodigy. 1662 01:32:59,400 --> 01:33:01,900 We've been bending over backwards to help this guy.. 1663 01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:04,800 and he's only one point away from disqualification. 1664 01:33:04,900 --> 01:33:06,900 Let's do an easy one, the film. 1665 01:33:07,100 --> 01:33:08,800 Everyone hates the film, right? 1666 01:33:08,900 --> 01:33:11,400 When l read the screenplay... 1667 01:33:11,500 --> 01:33:15,600 l was mostly just disappointed because it seemed like a crummy screenplay. 1668 01:33:16,400 --> 01:33:18,700 There we go. He's back in the running. 1669 01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:22,200 With one clip to go, the best Markoff could hope for was a tie. 1670 01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:25,200 So l gave him a chance to show some humanity. 1671 01:33:25,300 --> 01:33:28,200 l asked him to help us help Kevin and sign a petition... 1672 01:33:28,300 --> 01:33:31,300 to get him released from prison and end the nightmare. 1673 01:33:32,100 --> 01:33:35,900 He didn't want to sign the petition but he had a better idea. 1674 01:33:36,200 --> 01:33:38,800 lf you could pass a message to Kevin... 1675 01:33:39,100 --> 01:33:43,300 and say if he'd be willing to sit down and talk to me before his trial... 1676 01:33:43,900 --> 01:33:48,100 l would love to do a piece. And l think that's perfectly fair. 1677 01:33:50,600 --> 01:33:53,400 lf nothing else, you gotta give the guy credit for trying. 1678 01:33:53,500 --> 01:33:57,700 More than a decade of writing about Kevin and he still had yet to talk to him. 1679 01:33:58,000 --> 01:33:58,800 lt was time for our last corporate visit. 1680 01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:00,300 lt was time for our last corporate visit. 1681 01:34:00,300 --> 01:34:04,600 Novell, who claimed Kevin cost them more than $75 million. 1682 01:34:04,900 --> 01:34:07,900 We went to their corporate headquarters in Provo, Utah. 1683 01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:10,400 Okay, nowthe road says ''180 East.'' 1684 01:34:11,900 --> 01:34:15,800 All right, we want 122 East, 1700 South. 1685 01:34:17,300 --> 01:34:19,300 lt's like some locker combination. 1686 01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:22,000 Okay, here we are. 1687 01:34:23,500 --> 01:34:26,100 ls there somebody in charge of security maybe? 1688 01:34:26,900 --> 01:34:29,200 The person in charge of security is.... 1689 01:34:32,600 --> 01:34:34,200 He's just brand-new 1690 01:34:34,300 --> 01:34:37,800 Check that out.This guy is so worried about us seeing his nametag... 1691 01:34:37,900 --> 01:34:42,100 that he went through this acrobatic act to turn it over nice and casual-like. 1692 01:34:42,600 --> 01:34:45,600 But in the end, it was just like everywhere else. 1693 01:34:46,400 --> 01:34:48,600 Nobody was allowed to say anything. 1694 01:34:50,700 --> 01:34:52,800 But, at least, we tried. 1695 01:34:54,400 --> 01:34:56,400 Hey, pal, look down. Whoops! 1696 01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:01,300 So the last corporate door had been closed on us. 1697 01:35:01,400 --> 01:35:02,400 And now we had one last task... 1698 01:35:02,400 --> 01:35:03,600 And now we had one last task... 1699 01:35:03,600 --> 01:35:05,900 to head across the country and stop the film. 1700 01:35:06,500 --> 01:35:09,600 We knew it wouldn't work. We always knew it wouldn't work. 1701 01:35:09,800 --> 01:35:12,300 That's what hacking's been about from the beginning. 1702 01:35:12,500 --> 01:35:16,000 Doing things that you knew wouldn't work, just because you had to. 1703 01:35:16,100 --> 01:35:19,100 And trying to ignore the shit happening to your friends... 1704 01:35:19,200 --> 01:35:22,200 and trying not to feel bad when you couldn't change a thing. 1705 01:35:22,300 --> 01:35:24,300 As we drove from state to state... 1706 01:35:24,400 --> 01:35:27,900 l thought of how bad it could get, how bad it had already gotten. 1707 01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:30,600 l remembered what they do to people who piss them off. 1708 01:35:30,800 --> 01:35:33,000 l remembered what they did to Bernie. 1709 01:35:33,700 --> 01:35:36,100 The Bernie S. case, as far as l'm concerned... 1710 01:35:36,200 --> 01:35:39,200 got blown out of proportion by a lot of things. 1711 01:35:39,300 --> 01:35:41,700 lt got blown out of proportion by the prosecution... 1712 01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:46,400 who knew what exactly he had done and their representation of it... 1713 01:35:46,500 --> 01:35:51,300 was almost to make him look like the guy who blew up the Murrah Federal Building. 1714 01:35:51,400 --> 01:35:55,500 To do that was an incredible leap. But they managed to pass that of. 1715 01:35:56,000 --> 01:35:59,200 They made Bernie S. look like an absolute terrorist. 1716 01:35:59,300 --> 01:36:03,200 The new statute that my attorney had never heard of and neither had l... 1717 01:36:03,700 --> 01:36:07,100 that, in fact, wasn't even in the law books yet... 1718 01:36:08,200 --> 01:36:11,100 makes it a federal felony to possess... 1719 01:36:12,200 --> 01:36:13,900 hardware or software... 1720 01:36:14,000 --> 01:36:16,900 for the modification of telecommunications instruments... 1721 01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:20,000 for the unauthorized access to telecommunications services. 1722 01:36:20,200 --> 01:36:23,500 l wasn't accused or alleged to have done anything with software... 1723 01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:26,600 or ever cloned a cellular phone or anything of that nature. 1724 01:36:26,700 --> 01:36:29,400 Just the mere possession of these things... 1725 01:36:29,500 --> 01:36:33,100 now constituted a federal felony according to this new statute. 1726 01:36:33,200 --> 01:36:35,600 The judge ordered me held without bail... 1727 01:36:35,800 --> 01:36:37,500 based on the fact that books... 1728 01:36:37,600 --> 01:36:40,800 in fact, l think l had two books in my home... 1729 01:36:41,500 --> 01:36:45,700 on howfireworks, explosives are made. That stuff has fascinated me. 1730 01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:48,400 l had about 2,000 books in my personal library. 1731 01:36:48,500 --> 01:36:52,500 What little media attention the case got made Bernie look like a dangerous maniac. 1732 01:36:52,600 --> 01:36:54,900 He had never stolen anything, not even a phone call. 1733 01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:59,000 Everything used to make him look like a terrorist, he had legitimately obtained. 1734 01:36:59,100 --> 01:37:02,300 When the Secret Service wants you in prison, nobody asks them why 1735 01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:03,700 Not even a judge. 1736 01:37:04,100 --> 01:37:08,400 ''Your Honor, when we initially searched Mr. Cummings' house... 1737 01:37:08,900 --> 01:37:12,400 ''federal agents discovered a substance... 1738 01:37:12,500 --> 01:37:15,200 ''they believed to be C4 plastic explosives. 1739 01:37:17,700 --> 01:37:20,000 ''While upon later analysis... 1740 01:37:20,700 --> 01:37:22,900 ''it turned out not to be C4... 1741 01:37:23,000 --> 01:37:25,800 ''the fact that it might have been concerned us greatly. 1742 01:37:25,900 --> 01:37:30,300 ''And, based on that, we'd recommend for a stronger sentence.'' 1743 01:37:30,600 --> 01:37:33,100 The judge didn't even blink at that sort of a thing. 1744 01:37:33,200 --> 01:37:36,500 Then the prosecutor made a startling revelation to Bernie's lawyer. 1745 01:37:36,600 --> 01:37:39,000 She told him she was under a lot of pressure... 1746 01:37:39,100 --> 01:37:41,700 to prosecute this case by the Secret Service... 1747 01:37:42,300 --> 01:37:46,100 and that, in fact, the real reason, and that's a quote: 1748 01:37:46,200 --> 01:37:49,400 ''the real reason'' Ed is in jail... 1749 01:37:50,300 --> 01:37:53,600 was not because of crystals or software or anything like that. 1750 01:37:53,700 --> 01:37:57,000 lt was because of other things that they found in my house. 1751 01:37:58,100 --> 01:37:59,200 Namely: 1752 01:38:00,300 --> 01:38:04,500 surveillance photographs of undercover Secret Service agents. 1753 01:38:05,000 --> 01:38:07,700 So l made these photos available at the 2600 meeting... 1754 01:38:07,800 --> 01:38:11,700 and it apparently was a coincidence because l didn't call them... 1755 01:38:11,800 --> 01:38:14,400 but the local Fox television affiliate... 1756 01:38:15,200 --> 01:38:18,600 Fox 29 in Philadelphia, their news division, showed up at the meeting. 1757 01:38:18,700 --> 01:38:21,300 Most are between their mid-teens to late 20s. 1758 01:38:21,400 --> 01:38:25,100 They gather every Friday night at 30th Street Station for all to see. 1759 01:38:25,200 --> 01:38:28,700 lt's called the 2600 meeting, named after a telephone frequency... 1760 01:38:28,900 --> 01:38:30,600 and meetings like these are advertised... 1761 01:38:30,800 --> 01:38:33,200 in a hi-tech magazine you can buy at a bookstore. 1762 01:38:33,300 --> 01:38:36,500 Some hackers call themselves ''fighters for the freedom of information.'' 1763 01:38:36,600 --> 01:38:39,200 The US Secret Service monitors some hackers. 1764 01:38:39,300 --> 01:38:41,700 But hackers say it should be the other way around. 1765 01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:45,300 ln this photograph the Secret Service agent is picking his nose. 1766 01:38:46,300 --> 01:38:48,200 The Secret Service didn't find it humorous. 1767 01:38:48,300 --> 01:38:51,000 Not only did they have some of their agents' covers blown... 1768 01:38:51,100 --> 01:38:55,700 but they were picking their noses on a major market television news station. 1769 01:38:57,100 --> 01:38:59,300 We all thought that was amusing... 1770 01:38:59,700 --> 01:39:01,900 until l was in federal prison... 1771 01:39:02,000 --> 01:39:06,000 and l found out that the real reason l was locked up was because of that. 1772 01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:07,600 For a year-and-a-half... 1773 01:39:07,700 --> 01:39:11,800 Bernie was bounced around maximum security prisons throughout Pennsylvania. 1774 01:39:12,500 --> 01:39:15,100 l think they got tired of me filing these appeals... 1775 01:39:15,200 --> 01:39:19,900 because l found myself in handcufs and shackles and taken up to... 1776 01:39:21,100 --> 01:39:24,400 Lehigh County Prison which had a reputation... 1777 01:39:24,900 --> 01:39:28,400 amongst prisoners l had talked to over the past year... 1778 01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:32,600 as probably one of the roughest prisons in Pennsylvania. 1779 01:39:32,700 --> 01:39:34,900 Within a day, Bernie was attacked. 1780 01:39:35,300 --> 01:39:38,800 He punched me in the mouth and l went down. 1781 01:39:39,300 --> 01:39:42,200 He was a big guy, probably weighed like 220 pounds... 1782 01:39:43,700 --> 01:39:46,900 and l think it turned out later he was on drugs... 1783 01:39:47,300 --> 01:39:49,500 coming down off crack or something. 1784 01:39:50,900 --> 01:39:54,700 l went down and he started to kick me in the head... 1785 01:39:54,800 --> 01:39:58,000 and l put my arm up to block his kick and it broke my arm also. 1786 01:39:58,100 --> 01:40:02,100 After bleeding for hours, Bernie was finally taken to the hospital... 1787 01:40:02,200 --> 01:40:05,200 but the authorities refused to let him contact his relatives. 1788 01:40:05,300 --> 01:40:07,200 The hospital wanted me to sign this waiver. 1789 01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:10,500 Whenever you go into surgery you have to sign this thing saying... 1790 01:40:10,600 --> 01:40:14,000 that you understand all the risks involved. l refused to sign the paper. 1791 01:40:14,200 --> 01:40:16,500 l said, not until l get a hold of my uncle... 1792 01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:19,800 or at least let somebody in my family know what's going on. 1793 01:40:20,500 --> 01:40:23,700 The prison officials went bananas that l wouldn't sign this waiver. 1794 01:40:23,800 --> 01:40:28,000 lt was a liability for them that l wasn't getting medical treatment. 1795 01:40:28,400 --> 01:40:32,600 l was severely injured and they needed to operate on me right away. 1796 01:40:32,700 --> 01:40:35,500 lt got all the way up to the warden at this place. 1797 01:40:36,900 --> 01:40:39,600 My uncle was a known person in the community. 1798 01:40:39,800 --> 01:40:42,900 He'd been the president of the city council. They knew who he was. 1799 01:40:43,100 --> 01:40:47,400 He wasn't someone who'd run down there and try to spring me out of the hospital. 1800 01:40:47,700 --> 01:40:50,500 Meanwhile, l was handcuffed and shackled... 1801 01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:55,500 to the hospital bed, which was ridiculous. l didn't feel like going anywhere. 1802 01:40:56,000 --> 01:40:57,500 l was in bad shape. 1803 01:40:59,300 --> 01:41:01,400 With a guard sitting there with a gun... 1804 01:41:01,500 --> 01:41:04,400 making sure that l didn't break the handcuffs and run away. 1805 01:41:04,500 --> 01:41:08,700 l was denied antibiotics for two days. 1806 01:41:09,100 --> 01:41:11,700 l was denied any painkillers at all... 1807 01:41:11,800 --> 01:41:15,800 not even aspirin which l couldn't take because my teeth were wired shut... 1808 01:41:15,900 --> 01:41:18,700 and l was probably in the most excruciating pain... 1809 01:41:19,900 --> 01:41:23,300 that l've ever had, which was more than l could ever imagine... 1810 01:41:23,400 --> 01:41:25,400 having multiple fractures. 1811 01:41:28,300 --> 01:41:32,700 lt was like being in an altered state of consciousness, this much pain. 1812 01:41:33,100 --> 01:41:35,200 They weren't bringing me food l could eat. 1813 01:41:35,300 --> 01:41:38,600 They brought solid food which l couldn't eat because my jaw was wired shut! 1814 01:41:38,700 --> 01:41:40,900 l was getting to the point where.... 1815 01:41:41,700 --> 01:41:45,200 l was starting to feel like, ''l don't care anymore.'' 1816 01:41:46,800 --> 01:41:49,700 l was really feeling like, ''l give up.'' 1817 01:41:49,900 --> 01:41:52,000 l was losing my will to go ahead. 1818 01:41:52,600 --> 01:41:55,100 l was able to get a phone call out the next day... 1819 01:41:55,300 --> 01:41:57,600 tell people where l was, what was going on. 1820 01:41:57,700 --> 01:42:01,600 And that was when a major telephone campaign... 1821 01:42:02,000 --> 01:42:05,100 and lnternet crusade started... 1822 01:42:06,200 --> 01:42:07,500 gaining momentum. 1823 01:42:07,700 --> 01:42:12,400 We had state representatives getting called. l mean, like major politicians got calls... 1824 01:42:12,500 --> 01:42:16,600 and they called saying, ''What's with this? What's this generating all the publicity for?'' 1825 01:42:16,700 --> 01:42:20,500 Finally, the prison and the judge realized they didn't need this publicity 1826 01:42:20,600 --> 01:42:25,100 They wanted to get this thing over with and wash their hands of it. So the judge... 1827 01:42:26,700 --> 01:42:30,000 signed an order to have me released on a medical furlough... 1828 01:42:30,100 --> 01:42:32,500 which the guards had never even heard of before. 1829 01:42:32,600 --> 01:42:35,900 They said, ''What is that? People die here. We don't even let them out!'' 1830 01:42:36,000 --> 01:42:39,500 So this was an unusual thing. l'm convinced... 1831 01:42:40,500 --> 01:42:45,100 that all the publicity generated by 2600 Magazine... 1832 01:42:45,300 --> 01:42:47,300 the lnternet, their website... 1833 01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:50,500 radio interviews, l even forgot to mention that. 1834 01:42:50,600 --> 01:42:55,200 l'd been repeatedly interviewed on WBAl's Off The Hook show... 1835 01:42:55,800 --> 01:42:57,400 with Emmanuel Goldstein... 1836 01:42:57,500 --> 01:43:00,000 and people were following this case from the beginning... 1837 01:43:00,200 --> 01:43:04,100 and it was generating a lot of attention that way as well. 1838 01:43:04,200 --> 01:43:06,400 l got letters, l got hundreds of letters. 1839 01:43:06,500 --> 01:43:09,800 We had gotten him out but it sure didn't feel like a victory 1840 01:43:10,300 --> 01:43:12,100 And the scars were permanent. 1841 01:43:12,200 --> 01:43:13,700 They had to put a.... 1842 01:43:13,800 --> 01:43:16,200 The surgeons mounted... 1843 01:43:16,600 --> 01:43:20,800 a titanium bar in my arm. 1844 01:43:21,300 --> 01:43:23,900 l don't know if you can see it or not. 1845 01:43:24,000 --> 01:43:28,900 A nice scar from here to here where they put this titanium bar in... 1846 01:43:29,200 --> 01:43:33,200 and seven stainless-steel screws. This is how much my arm opens now. 1847 01:43:33,300 --> 01:43:37,200 That's it. That's my full range of motion in my left arm. 1848 01:43:37,300 --> 01:43:41,000 Unlike my good arm which straightens out. Anyway, that's what l got. 1849 01:43:41,100 --> 01:43:44,700 My jaw doesn't open as much as it used to. 1850 01:43:44,800 --> 01:43:48,700 lf l'm trying to bite an apple, l can't get it in like l used to. 1851 01:43:49,200 --> 01:43:50,800 But l live with it. 1852 01:43:53,100 --> 01:43:53,900 We crossed the entire country and were finally closing in on the Takedown set. 1853 01:43:53,900 --> 01:43:57,200 We crossed the entire country and were finally closing in on the Takedown set. 1854 01:43:57,200 --> 01:43:58,800 But there was a problem. 1855 01:43:58,900 --> 01:44:02,000 lt seems that the hurricane... 1856 01:44:02,900 --> 01:44:07,200 is making a beeline for the set at this point in time. 1857 01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:12,200 ln fact, it's estimated that it will reach and destroy the set by sometime tomorrow. 1858 01:44:12,700 --> 01:44:15,100 And, that's something that causes me concern... 1859 01:44:15,200 --> 01:44:18,300 because it's not like that's something we wanted to have happen. 1860 01:44:18,400 --> 01:44:22,700 l fear that one of the listeners or one of the subscribers or somebody... 1861 01:44:23,100 --> 01:44:25,700 may have called upon almightyAllah... 1862 01:44:25,800 --> 01:44:28,100 or Christ or whatever... 1863 01:44:28,200 --> 01:44:32,100 to rain forth upon these people with all kinds of venom. 1864 01:44:32,700 --> 01:44:36,000 l'd like to stress at this point that that's not what we meant to do. 1865 01:44:36,100 --> 01:44:38,700 That's not exactly how l want things to turn out. 1866 01:44:38,800 --> 01:44:43,000 l fear that the Takedown people aren't taking this seriously. 1867 01:44:44,000 --> 01:44:47,800 lf you look at the map, if you look at the news reports... 1868 01:44:48,200 --> 01:44:52,500 you will see the eye of the hurricane, you will see the direction it's heading for... 1869 01:44:52,600 --> 01:44:56,200 you will see a little dot that indicates Takedown being produced there. 1870 01:44:56,300 --> 01:44:59,400 That is where it's heading. This is like the scene in Twister... 1871 01:44:59,500 --> 01:45:03,400 where the rival gangs of twister watchers are trying to warn each other: 1872 01:45:03,500 --> 01:45:05,600 ''This is the big one!'' Well, this is the big one. 1873 01:45:05,700 --> 01:45:07,400 They were looking at this thing... 1874 01:45:07,500 --> 01:45:11,000 and they saw another hurricane contained within this hurricane. 1875 01:45:11,300 --> 01:45:13,700 And they say they've never seen that before. 1876 01:45:13,800 --> 01:45:17,300 And, if that's not enough for you, Hurricane Bonnie. 1877 01:45:17,700 --> 01:45:20,400 Bonnie is the name of Kevin Mitnick's ex-wife. 1878 01:45:20,500 --> 01:45:24,600 Nowthe metaphor just could not be more perfect for me. 1879 01:45:24,800 --> 01:45:28,900 Of course, we didn't take our own advice and drove straight into the storm. 1880 01:45:34,700 --> 01:45:39,000 We thought we might be able to get a lot closer to the set if nobody was around. 1881 01:45:39,200 --> 01:45:40,500 We were right. 1882 01:45:47,300 --> 01:45:50,500 They seemed to have a real fixation on gun safety in this place. 1883 01:45:50,600 --> 01:45:52,800 You had to wonder what had happened. 1884 01:45:55,900 --> 01:46:00,400 We took a little tour of the restricted area past the unguarded guardhouse. 1885 01:46:08,500 --> 01:46:09,900 The storm passed. 1886 01:46:10,300 --> 01:46:12,800 And while we were exploring the next day... 1887 01:46:13,100 --> 01:46:14,800 we made a discovery. 1888 01:46:16,300 --> 01:46:18,900 And they all want Free Kevin stickers. The whole crew. 1889 01:46:19,100 --> 01:46:22,800 lf you give me some, l will send it to them. They will put them on their cars. 1890 01:46:22,900 --> 01:46:24,400 Was it really this easy? 1891 01:46:24,500 --> 01:46:27,000 Had we discovered where the Takedown people were... 1892 01:46:27,100 --> 01:46:28,900 through our own bumper sticker? 1893 01:46:29,000 --> 01:46:31,300 -l have Mr. Wong in Number 9. -Russell Wong. 1894 01:46:31,400 --> 01:46:33,200 Yeah. He's in Number 9. 1895 01:46:33,300 --> 01:46:35,400 -ls he still here? -l think he is. 1896 01:46:35,500 --> 01:46:39,200 The receptionist went out of her way to tell us where everyone was staying. 1897 01:46:39,300 --> 01:46:41,900 And while the guy playing Shimomura wasn't in... 1898 01:46:42,000 --> 01:46:45,400 we found the producer who promised us an interviewthat coming Sunday. 1899 01:46:45,500 --> 01:46:47,400 The place was swarming with celebrities... 1900 01:46:47,500 --> 01:46:51,100 like cast members from Dawson's Creek engaging in decadent behavior. 1901 01:46:52,300 --> 01:46:55,500 We wandered around town, taking in the carnage from Bonnie... 1902 01:46:55,600 --> 01:46:57,400 seeing the desperate people. 1903 01:46:58,400 --> 01:47:01,800 We witnessed civilization brought to a standstill. 1904 01:47:08,700 --> 01:47:10,100 Roads were closed... 1905 01:47:12,000 --> 01:47:13,400 power was out... 1906 01:47:17,700 --> 01:47:19,400 trees were knocked down. 1907 01:47:20,900 --> 01:47:22,700 But it didn't matter. 1908 01:47:22,900 --> 01:47:25,800 We were going to finally talk to the Takedown people! 1909 01:47:27,700 --> 01:47:30,400 There was nothing to do, the computer store was closed. 1910 01:47:30,500 --> 01:47:33,600 We had four days to kill so we drove all the way to Raleigh... 1911 01:47:33,700 --> 01:47:36,000 to see the town where Kevin Mitnick was captured. 1912 01:47:36,100 --> 01:47:39,600 The cellular towers where Markoff and Shimomura tracked Kevin's signal. 1913 01:47:39,700 --> 01:47:42,400 And this was the apartment complex it led them to. 1914 01:47:42,500 --> 01:47:45,100 And this was Kevin's actual apartment. 1915 01:47:45,600 --> 01:47:47,700 -You have a computer yourself? -Yeah. 1916 01:47:47,800 --> 01:47:48,900 Be careful. 1917 01:47:49,000 --> 01:47:51,000 l'll keep that in mind. 1918 01:47:51,100 --> 01:47:55,300 We foundTakedown crew members in Wilmington where the power was restored. 1919 01:47:55,400 --> 01:47:59,700 You have to remember that film is usually for fourth-grade mentalities. 1920 01:47:59,800 --> 01:48:02,800 Skeet is definitely.... He's a great actor. 1921 01:48:04,500 --> 01:48:07,700 He's the most natural actor, so Kevin's lucky. 1922 01:48:09,000 --> 01:48:10,600 He's very charismatic. 1923 01:48:10,700 --> 01:48:14,500 There's nothing you can do to Skeet Ulrich that makes him uncharismatic. 1924 01:48:14,600 --> 01:48:17,600 So that's kind of, l mean, from your side, it's kind of... 1925 01:48:17,700 --> 01:48:19,700 he's lucky, you know? 1926 01:48:20,000 --> 01:48:23,300 l promised to tell Kevin how lucky he was next time l talked to him. 1927 01:48:23,400 --> 01:48:25,400 But now it was time for our interview. 1928 01:48:25,500 --> 01:48:28,000 We had been in North Carolina for five days. 1929 01:48:28,100 --> 01:48:29,400 But something was wrong. 1930 01:48:29,600 --> 01:48:33,300 Miramax had changed their mind and nowthey didn't want to talk to us. 1931 01:48:33,400 --> 01:48:36,300 So we staged an impromptu protest outside the studio. 1932 01:48:36,400 --> 01:48:39,300 And as we were leaving, destiny hit us again. 1933 01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:40,400 This time we wouldn't let them escape. 1934 01:48:40,400 --> 01:48:44,200 This time we wouldn't let them escape. 1935 01:48:44,200 --> 01:48:47,200 We drove next door and waited for them to leave. 1936 01:48:49,600 --> 01:48:51,900 There he goes. Yeah. 1937 01:48:55,200 --> 01:48:58,300 And off he goes into the wild blue yonder 1938 01:48:58,500 --> 01:49:00,800 This is the realTakedown! 1939 01:49:05,000 --> 01:49:06,600 We had two cars on our side... 1940 01:49:06,800 --> 01:49:10,700 we would outflank them, chase them, ambush them, whatever it took. 1941 01:49:21,500 --> 01:49:25,000 -l wish l didn't have these running lights. -Close enough. Go. 1942 01:49:26,700 --> 01:49:29,200 For six weeks we'd been trying to talk to these people... 1943 01:49:29,300 --> 01:49:31,600 and we hadn't even gotten a phone call back. 1944 01:49:31,700 --> 01:49:33,300 So this is what it came down to: 1945 01:49:33,400 --> 01:49:35,900 A cat-and-mouse game in the streets of Wilmington. 1946 01:49:36,000 --> 01:49:38,500 They didn't know who they were dealing with. 1947 01:49:39,200 --> 01:49:41,000 He's making a U-turn. 1948 01:49:41,900 --> 01:49:44,200 He's making a U-turn, that motherfucker 1949 01:49:44,800 --> 01:49:46,500 -Oh, God. -No, he's getting gas. 1950 01:49:46,600 --> 01:49:50,400 -Man, there's a boat in the way. -And only eight minutes left on this tape. 1951 01:49:50,500 --> 01:49:52,600 What do we do now?This is just great. 1952 01:49:52,700 --> 01:49:54,900 This is just so typical North Carolina-ish. 1953 01:49:55,000 --> 01:49:57,300 Fucking boat blocking us on the street. 1954 01:49:57,500 --> 01:49:59,800 -He's not there. -Oh, man! 1955 01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:05,800 This guy's good.This guy's real good. 1956 01:50:10,500 --> 01:50:13,600 They took off that way. l think they know we're behind them. 1957 01:50:13,700 --> 01:50:16,000 They made a U-turn and went into the gas station. 1958 01:50:16,100 --> 01:50:17,600 Really? That's why. 1959 01:50:17,700 --> 01:50:20,300 -Did they then go that way? -They did go that way. 1960 01:50:20,400 --> 01:50:22,200 After they made the U-turn? 1961 01:50:22,300 --> 01:50:24,500 They left the gas station and went that way? 1962 01:50:24,600 --> 01:50:26,900 -They went that way. -When? After the gas station? 1963 01:50:27,000 --> 01:50:28,800 A few minutes ago. l waited. 1964 01:50:28,900 --> 01:50:31,100 l thought maybe you'd come by 1965 01:50:31,200 --> 01:50:33,500 So they're headed that way and l don't know where. 1966 01:50:33,600 --> 01:50:34,700 So let's go. 1967 01:50:34,800 --> 01:50:36,300 -Where are we gonna go? -Forward. 1968 01:50:36,400 --> 01:50:38,600 Even if we go forward at maximum warp... 1969 01:50:38,700 --> 01:50:41,700 we can't catch them because they're doing the same thing. 1970 01:50:41,800 --> 01:50:44,500 Let's face it guys, we lost.They beat us. 1971 01:50:58,700 --> 01:51:00,300 -Shakes? -Yeah. 1972 01:51:00,700 --> 01:51:01,700 Shakes. 1973 01:51:02,300 --> 01:51:05,200 There's always the outside chance they'll get a shake too. 1974 01:51:05,600 --> 01:51:07,100 We had failed. 1975 01:51:07,300 --> 01:51:08,900 We never found Shimomura... 1976 01:51:09,000 --> 01:51:11,500 we never got to talk to the Takedown people... 1977 01:51:11,600 --> 01:51:15,600 and we never got past the lobby in any of the corporations we visited. 1978 01:51:15,700 --> 01:51:18,400 Worst of all, Kevin was still in prison. 1979 01:51:19,400 --> 01:51:19,500 1999 sawthe Free Kevin Movement reach a fever pitch. 1980 01:51:19,500 --> 01:51:24,300 1999 sawthe Free Kevin Movement reach a fever pitch. 1981 01:51:24,300 --> 01:51:27,600 The media wouldn't cover it, so the message went on hacked web pages. 1982 01:51:33,500 --> 01:51:34,700 And for the first time... 1983 01:51:34,800 --> 01:51:38,400 hackers marched in the streets in 15 cities all over the world... 1984 01:51:38,900 --> 01:51:41,400 even overseas in England and Russia. 1985 01:51:41,700 --> 01:51:43,100 lt was an amazing spectacle... 1986 01:51:43,200 --> 01:51:47,000 and more people learned about Kevin's plight than ever before. 1987 01:51:48,700 --> 01:51:52,400 Even though Kevin Mitnick saw his fourth year behind bars come and go... 1988 01:51:52,500 --> 01:51:55,200 we felt like we were getting somewhere. 1989 01:51:57,200 --> 01:51:59,100 Excuse me? What are you doing? 1990 01:52:01,400 --> 01:52:04,300 And in the end, Kevin did what he had to do... 1991 01:52:04,400 --> 01:52:07,300 to avoid spending the next 10 years behind bars. 1992 01:52:09,100 --> 01:52:13,400 You're watching Southern California's CBS 2 News at 6:30. 1993 01:52:13,700 --> 01:52:16,700 Good evening. l'm Gretchen Carr. Ann Martin is off tonight. 1994 01:52:16,800 --> 01:52:18,900 And l'm Michael Tuck. Up front at 6:30... 1995 01:52:19,000 --> 01:52:22,500 a guilty plea by notorious computer hacker Kevin David Mitnick. 1996 01:52:22,800 --> 01:52:24,300 Juan Fernandez joins us live... 1997 01:52:24,500 --> 01:52:26,800 from the Federal Courthouse in downtown LosAngeles. 1998 01:52:26,900 --> 01:52:28,400 He was the first computer hacker... 1999 01:52:28,600 --> 01:52:31,200 to make it to the FBl's Most Wanted List. 2000 01:52:31,300 --> 01:52:33,700 And after a long battle with the federal government... 2001 01:52:33,800 --> 01:52:37,200 the 35-year-old man from the San Fernando Valley comes clean. 2002 01:52:37,300 --> 01:52:41,400 His computer crimes apparently cost companies millions of dollars... 2003 01:52:41,700 --> 01:52:45,400 although Kevin Mitnick never admitted to them until today.. 2004 01:52:45,600 --> 01:52:48,500 ending a four-year battle with the federal government. 2005 01:52:48,600 --> 01:52:49,900 This is a very serious crime. 2006 01:52:50,000 --> 01:52:52,300 The federal government takes this crime seriously. 2007 01:52:52,400 --> 01:52:53,700 We will prosecute hackers... 2008 01:52:53,800 --> 01:52:56,700 particularly when they cause significant amounts of damage. 2009 01:52:56,800 --> 01:52:59,500 Mitnick nowfaces 46 months in jail. 2010 01:52:59,700 --> 01:53:02,900 He's already served eight months, and according to his attorney... 2011 01:53:03,000 --> 01:53:07,100 with good behavior, Mitnick might only have to serve one more year. 2012 01:53:07,500 --> 01:53:10,000 Mitnick will pay for his crimes for the rest of his life. 2013 01:53:10,100 --> 01:53:12,000 Although his attorneys say he has no money... 2014 01:53:12,100 --> 01:53:14,500 to pay restitution to the companies that he hacked... 2015 01:53:14,600 --> 01:53:17,100 that doesn't mean that they won't go after him later. 2016 01:53:17,200 --> 01:53:19,700 lt was as if we hadn't said a word. 2017 01:53:21,200 --> 01:53:25,400 l pray that they never wind up in the legal system. 2018 01:53:27,100 --> 01:53:28,700 l pray that nobody does. 2019 01:53:28,800 --> 01:53:31,800 But the thing is that if they do... 2020 01:53:32,700 --> 01:53:36,500 right nowthe way it stands, the cards are stacked against them. 2021 01:53:37,000 --> 01:53:38,000 lt's not about fairness. 2022 01:53:38,100 --> 01:53:41,300 lt's just about the way the legal game is played. 2023 01:53:42,200 --> 01:53:44,400 lt's crazy to bring up the O.J. Simpson case... 2024 01:53:44,500 --> 01:53:46,000 because there's no comparison here... 2025 01:53:46,100 --> 01:53:50,000 but here's a case where a defendant had basically an unlimited budget... 2026 01:53:50,200 --> 01:53:52,100 and look what that legal team accomplished. 2027 01:53:52,200 --> 01:53:54,900 l'm not saying you need a lot of money to get off for something you did. 2028 01:53:55,000 --> 01:53:58,000 l'm saying it doesn't matter whether you did it or not. 2029 01:53:58,200 --> 01:53:59,900 The case, the legal system... 2030 01:54:00,000 --> 01:54:03,100 the justice system isn't about what you did or what you didn't do. 2031 01:54:03,300 --> 01:54:06,100 lt's about either the government is going to win the case... 2032 01:54:06,200 --> 01:54:07,500 or you'll win the case. 2033 01:54:07,600 --> 01:54:11,100 That's all that matters in the case. lt isn't all that matters morally 2034 01:54:11,200 --> 01:54:14,100 l'm just saying in the court system, that's all that matters. 2035 01:54:14,200 --> 01:54:16,300 The prosecution will do whatever they can do... 2036 01:54:16,400 --> 01:54:19,100 spend whatever money they can to win a case... 2037 01:54:19,200 --> 01:54:21,600 and you have to do the same thing or you will lose. 2038 01:54:21,800 --> 01:54:25,300 You know, this is no longer about what the law allows or doesn't allow 2039 01:54:25,400 --> 01:54:29,700 This is about how do you make it as difficult as possible for the defendants... 2040 01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:33,100 to get them to roll over or cop a plea. 2041 01:54:33,200 --> 01:54:35,000 lt has nothing to do with justice anymore. 2042 01:54:36,000 --> 01:54:38,000 God help you if you get stuck in that system... 2043 01:54:38,200 --> 01:54:40,100 because it's very easy to get in... 2044 01:54:40,200 --> 01:54:43,500 and it's almost impossible to get out unscathed... 2045 01:54:44,800 --> 01:54:47,700 because you're up against an adversary... 2046 01:54:49,700 --> 01:54:53,100 that has everything going for it except maybe the truth. 2047 01:54:54,600 --> 01:54:57,200 And, unfortunately, that doesn't count for much. 2048 01:54:59,300 --> 01:55:01,200 So, that's the way it is. 2049 01:55:02,600 --> 01:55:05,700 lf the legal community doesn't wake up shortly... 2050 01:55:07,200 --> 01:55:10,200 we're gonna have more people locked up... 2051 01:55:10,400 --> 01:55:12,500 than we know what to do with. 2052 01:55:13,900 --> 01:55:16,300 A lot of them are going to be kids. Unfortunately. 2053 01:57:19,900 --> 01:57:21,000 l don't think it ended. 2054 01:57:21,200 --> 01:57:23,900 lt turned into this huge controversy that went on until now 2055 01:57:24,000 --> 01:57:27,500 But there weren't any more stories in the New York Times about it. 2056 01:57:29,400 --> 01:57:33,100 What would you think that we should have reported? l mean.... 2057 02:01:02,700 --> 02:01:03,500 l appreciate everybody taking the time to viewthis film... 2058 02:01:03,500 --> 02:01:05,800 l appreciate everybody taking the time to viewthis film... 2059 02:01:05,800 --> 02:01:09,200 which was a tremendous effort on the part of Emmanuel Goldstein... 2060 02:01:09,300 --> 02:01:12,300 and everyone on the 2600 staff. 2061 02:01:12,800 --> 02:01:14,200 And l want to offer... 2062 02:01:14,300 --> 02:01:17,900 my sincere appreciation and gratitude... 2063 02:01:18,100 --> 02:01:21,300 for the tremendous moral support that everyone has given me... 2064 02:01:21,400 --> 02:01:23,800 throughout this five year ordeal. 2065 02:01:43,700 --> 02:01:46,600 Subtitles by SOFTlTLER 181954