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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,520 We meet in this courtyard today 2 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:40,320 to remember the events of Thursday, the 7th of July. 3 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,000 {\an8}Each of us standing here today 4 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:50,400 {\an8}have our own thoughts and memories of that awful moment... 5 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,120 ...when the noise of the explosion faded 6 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,880 and the reality of the situation hit our consciousness. 7 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,920 Just wait there for a second. Put your bag on the floor, please. 8 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,440 In 2005, I was a firearms officer. 9 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,239 {\an8}After 7/7, everybody was on edge. 10 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,440 {\an8}You can't put into words how scared people were. 11 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,960 Especially as a firearms officer, you were just waiting for that call. 12 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,879 {\an8}There was a feeling of almost a war footing, 13 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:44,440 {\an8}and people were jumpy. 14 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,199 It was a war on terror. 15 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,360 I felt it had come home to roost, really, with that. 16 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:14,880 {\an8}I think everybody was on tenterhooks. 17 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,799 They were all kind of waiting for the next thing to happen. 18 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,360 It's not normally a one-off. There's normally a series of these things. 19 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,160 It had been two weeks since the events of 7/7. 20 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,080 I was a firefighter, and my son was just six weeks old. 21 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:03,959 It was a normal thing of a young family. 22 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:05,120 Chaotic, I suppose. 23 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,599 So, I was traveling to work outside of the rush hour, 24 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,880 and we were just rattling along on the Northern Line. 25 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:21,360 We pulled into Stockwell Station. 26 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,120 Mind the gap. 27 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,120 I didn't notice anyone untoward. 28 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,800 There was a baby, and the baby was being a bit raucous. 29 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,120 I have no distinct memory of him prior to the... to the bang. 30 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:02,879 He was nondescript. 31 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,439 He was, you know, a very ordinary-looking young man, 32 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,720 who you would pass on the street and not think twice about at all. 33 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,479 Once the smoke started to clear, I could distinctly see him. 34 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:20,560 He was screaming. 35 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,640 I thought he was in pain. I said, "Look, I can help you." 36 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:29,000 He was frightened. 37 00:04:30,280 --> 00:04:34,360 I thought, "I'm dealing with someone who's scared, who needs help." 38 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,359 But, no, he didn't-- he didn't want my help. 39 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,679 His demeanor became really quite aggressive. 40 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,720 He's now threatening to kill me. 41 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,359 But as I got as close as I am to you now, 42 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,400 I could then see on the floor the remnants of his rucksack. 43 00:04:52,840 --> 00:04:55,719 So I said, "What the fuck is that? You tell me what that is." 44 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,440 "I wanna know what that is now." 45 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:00,639 He says, "This is wrong." 46 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,799 And he points at me, and he says, "You're wrong." 47 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,440 And then he talks as a whole, and he says, "This is all wrong." 48 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:14,999 And what's on the floor is this, um, mass of yellow foam 49 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:16,720 that's popping and fizzing. 50 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:26,480 Within it, I can quite clearly see nuts and bolts, and nails. 51 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,399 The point of realization is a terrifying one 52 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,199 because, suddenly, you've-- He's not just a young man. 53 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,240 Um, this is someone who's trying to kill us. 54 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:06,360 A sense of panic, wanting to run away, and then not having anywhere to go. 55 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:12,599 This thing on the floor is trying to explode. 56 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:14,080 It's right next to me. 57 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,600 And I'm all on my own. Um, that's-- that's terrifying. 58 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,080 That's when I pull the alarm, and that's when the train slows. 59 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,199 He swore at me again. 60 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,720 He certainly kicked the doors a number of times. 61 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,160 There was a long, pregnant pause. 62 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,160 Then all of a sudden, the doors open......they open. 63 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,480 I call out after him, "Stop him! Stop him!" But he was gone. 64 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,319 The first thing I did was phone my wife and say, "Hello." 65 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,639 And it's a ridiculous conversation. 66 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,360 "I think something's happened. I think someone's tried to kill me." 67 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:24,999 She said, "Actually, I'm watching the news, 68 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:26,719 and it's happening again all over London." 69 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,399 "They're doing it again. It must've happened to you." 70 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,160 "They're trying to blow London up again." 71 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:35,239 {\an8}To break you some news, 72 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,839 {\an8}we're getting reports of a reported series of incidents 73 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,479 {\an8}on what may be the tube system, uh, we are told. 74 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,799 {\an8}Warren Street, which is, uh, on the Victoria line, 75 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:46,799 {\an8}in the north of London. 76 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,879 {\an8}The Oval, of course, down to the south of London. 77 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,199 {\an8}And Shepherd's Bush out to the west. 78 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,800 Everybody, get out the road! 79 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,999 Can we have you all move towards the Central Line, please? 80 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,439 {\an8}I'm going to interrupt you, Joe, getting news that emergency services say 81 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,759 {\an8}they're responding to reports of an incident on a bus in Hackney Road. 82 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,639 Have to ask you to move back. Can't explain why at the moment, 83 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,440 but if you bear with me, move back as quickly as possible. 84 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:22,760 A man was carrying a rucksack. The rucksack suddenly exploded. 85 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,160 I just had this smell, this terrible smell. 86 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,519 Start moving back now, please. 87 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:29,959 Thank you very much... 88 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,120 And we've been stopped in Oval and asked to leave the train. 89 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,719 {\an8}We just saw lots of people run into our carriage. 90 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,079 {\an8}By that time, we were pulling into Warren Street Station. 91 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:40,599 Keep moving! 92 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,719 There was a general panic. Everyone was panicking. 93 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,600 I knew it was a bomb, and I said my prayers. 94 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:51,959 - Seeing four incidents... - Yes. 95 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,040 North, south, west, and east. 96 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,599 Two weeks on, and once again, large sections of London being evacuated. 97 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,279 Inevitably, this time, there will be early questions 98 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,840 about security and about intelligence. 99 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,319 For sure, our anxiety was there would be other attacks 100 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:18,240 that would come. 101 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,759 It's just in the nature of these things, and other people think, 102 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:28,320 "We can multiply the pain," as it were, "on the country by further attacks." 103 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,440 So we gave a lot of credibility to the possibility of this threat. 104 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:34,320 {\an8}And I think, 105 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,759 {\an8}to be fair to the security services, they put a huge amount of effort 106 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:44,520 {\an8}into making sure that... that those attacks were prevented. 107 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,439 But it's in the nature of these things 108 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,960 that there's a limit to how much you're able to do. 109 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,319 {\an8}That, I'm afraid, is a common and uncomfortable feeling in MI5, 110 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,719 {\an8}that you will know enough to be anxious and worried 111 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,440 that something is coming, but not enough to stop it. 112 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,039 Terrorism can often be imitated. 113 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,119 People are inspired by something 114 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,079 and try and copy it. 115 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,639 I was concerned whether my service, and indeed the police, 116 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,359 and indeed the British public, 117 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,880 could tolerate that sort of tempo of attempted attacks. 118 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,719 {\an8}One of my colleagues knocked on the door, came into the room, 119 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:48,440 {\an8}and just said, "It looks like there's been a number of further attacks." 120 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,960 Sort of bore very similar hallmarks to what had happened on the 7th of July. 121 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:59,840 There had been four incidents. 122 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,480 One on an underground train near the Oval. 123 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,040 One at Warren Street. 124 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:22,360 One on an Underground train, albeit above ground, at Shepherd's Bush. 125 00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:27,080 And then on a bus out in Hackney. 126 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,119 And early accounts describe the individuals 127 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,360 who were clearly carrying the devices. 128 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,440 It just felt very similar to the 7th of July. 129 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,199 A minor explosion, but enough to blow open the rucksack, 130 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,200 and the man then made an exclamation as if something had gone wrong. 131 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,399 But it was apparent from the very outset 132 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,279 that they hadn't detonated, 133 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,760 and it did not look as if anyone had been killed or injured. 134 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:10,999 The four suspects of these four attacks had failed and fled the scene. 135 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,319 Um, reports of someone seen running away. 136 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,719 Uh, those sniffer dogs that arrived here 137 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,159 are not down in the Underground, as you perhaps might expect. 138 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:21,959 They're actually out here in the open. 139 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,199 They're looking for someone above ground, 140 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,840 not necessarily below-ground at this stage. 141 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,959 {\an8}I was day shift, travelling along the South Bank, 142 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,360 {\an8}when the call came in, and it was like, 143 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,360 {\an8}"Shit. Here we go again." 144 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,199 There's four bombers now, on the loose. 145 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:46,999 This is real. This is happening. 146 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,680 And now we need to step up and do what we can. 147 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,119 The terrorist has an objective to detonate his device 148 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,000 and to kill as many people as possible. 149 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,279 If they haven't met that objective, then they're twice as dangerous, 150 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:05,920 because what are they gonna do next? 151 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:08,719 They know that we're gonna be looking for them. 152 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:10,480 They've got nothing else to lose. 153 00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:18,239 Certainly, the concern was that nobody really knew what was in the playbook 154 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,080 of a failed suicide bomber. 155 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,799 The reports coming in that armed police 156 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,640 have actually entered, uh, UCL Hospital. 157 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,080 This is near Warren Street tube station. 158 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,479 Police asking staff to look out for a male, Black, 159 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:36,959 possibly Asian appearance, 160 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,879 with a blue top and a hole in the rear of the top 161 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,359 with wires protruding from it, 162 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:43,920 uh, which is rather alarming. 163 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:52,319 We were also aware that the 7th of July bombers had small, 164 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:57,240 homemade explosive devices in the Nissan Micra at Luton station. 165 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,400 Almost to have in readiness had they failed in their attack. 166 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,439 I think the greatest concern at that early stage 167 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,880 was that the guys on the run 168 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,920 would make a plan B up on the hoof. 169 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:18,880 They would just mount another attack. 170 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,000 The person who was believed to be the Oval bomber 171 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,960 was sighted crossing Westminster Bridge. 172 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,079 Information we had at the time was that it was a Asian male, 173 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,000 dark clothing, and had a rucksack. 174 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,640 We had hundreds of calls following 7/7 who matched that description. 175 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,759 And nine times out of ten, they're innocent. 176 00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:59,520 Just going to school, college, work. 177 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,200 {\an8}But this person was then sighted going on to Downing Street. 178 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,959 {\an8}This person had been seen at the exact locations where 179 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,359 a terrorist or a bomber would want to target 180 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:19,680 to inflict maximum damage. 181 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,439 He's an immediate threat to the people around him, 182 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,079 an immediate threat potentially to the Prime Minister at the time, 183 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:30,160 and he's a threat to us. 184 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:37,400 This is game on. This is who we're after. 185 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,679 Okay, guys, back, please! 186 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,360 Hello. Please move back around the corner! 187 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:46,839 When we got onto Downing Street, 188 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,680 a male was sighted on the southern pavement. 189 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,039 Can you move back, please, folks? 190 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,480 Keep moving back further, mate. Move back. 191 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:00,320 Undo your shirt. 192 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,239 I can remember him ditching the rucksack, 193 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,999 and I'm fixated on his hands. 194 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,879 Move back down the pavement. 195 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,080 Back to Parliament Square, please. 196 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,360 He starts unbuttoning his shirt. 197 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,680 And we see the chest is clean-shaven. 198 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:22,879 Part of our training was to recognize somebody 199 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,320 who had prepared to martyr themselves, and that is to cleanse their body. 200 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,840 We could see there was no suicide vest there, 201 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:34,439 but threat's still there. 202 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,039 Could he have something else concealed with him? Absolutely. 203 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,519 Police have actually drawn their weapons 204 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,719 at the end of Downing Street, where that protective gate is. 205 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:48,439 They've actually taken aim at something. We're not quite sure what that is. 206 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:49,760 I was scared. 207 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:51,680 Everyone was scared. 208 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,879 We know the police had been issued with this instruction 209 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:57,360 to aim for the head. 210 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,480 If he makes a sudden move, I may need to pull the trigger. 211 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,959 And that means taking a critical shot to the head to stop him. 212 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,800 Keep moving as quick as you can, please. 213 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,960 If you cut the head off a snake, it can't bite you. 214 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:18,680 Keep going, please. 215 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,399 I don't want to kill that person. I don't want to take somebody's life. 216 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,040 But if I have to, that's what I've signed up to do. 217 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,439 This is the end of Downing Street. 218 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,359 Of course, inside, you saw the pictures, 219 00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:43,279 there are journalists waiting to hear from the Prime Minister. 220 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,799 But here are these security officials, armed to the teeth there, aren't they? 221 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,199 They're at the end, 222 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,239 and a man is being led away quite clearly, as you can see. 223 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,119 - Back to Parliament Square! - Move back, please! 224 00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:56,400 Back to Parliament Square! Come on, move. 225 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:58,360 Further back, please! 226 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,040 He was innocent. 227 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,000 The next person I dealt with was innocent, 228 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,600 and the person after that, and the person after that. 229 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:08,640 But there was never a sigh of relief. 230 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,479 We didn't have time. 231 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,520 It was literally, move on. 232 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,720 Because they were still out there, still out on the streets of London. 233 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,799 No suggestion, of course, that individual's connected 234 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,079 with any of these events. Police taking no chances with the alert. 235 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,239 The Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary, the Home Secretary, 236 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,119 the Commissioner of Metropolitan Police, all in Downing Street 237 00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:43,760 for this news conference that we're expecting fairly shortly. 238 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,119 As Prime Minister, you have security. 239 00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:50,240 Of course you worry about your family. 240 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,119 But you're not likely to be in a situation 241 00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:56,719 where you're just left without any protection, 242 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,999 so my main worry was that there was people 243 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:05,400 who wanted to cause deep, profound harm to our country, and to our people. 244 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,999 Okay, they killed over 50 people on July the 7th. 245 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,399 If they could've killed over 500, they would've. 246 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:14,720 Or 5,000, they would've. 247 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,160 Right, good afternoon, everyone, and, uh... 248 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,559 a warm welcome to Prime Minister John Howard from Australia. 249 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:32,839 I hope you'll forgive me if I say to you, it's best for operational details 250 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,119 to go to the police and the emergency services 251 00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:37,999 and others that can give you the information. 252 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,560 Um... 253 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,759 We can't minimize incidents such as this, 254 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,799 because they have been serious in the four different places, as we know. 255 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,720 Um, I think all I'd like to say is this that... 256 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,279 We know why these things are done. They're done to scare people 257 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,080 and to frighten them, to make them anxious and worried. 258 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:12,119 My overriding memory of 21/7 is that that was the moment 259 00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:14,320 that I started to feel quite scared. 260 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,919 {\an8}It just suddenly felt like it wasn't a one-off, 261 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:20,440 {\an8}that it could happen again. 262 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,159 It started to make me question 263 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,039 if this was something we were gonna keep on dealing with, 264 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,919 how that was gonna impact our way of life, 265 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,719 but also, again, you know, being British Muslim, 266 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,199 what the implications of that. 267 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,159 The way of defeating it is to defeat it, of course, by security measures, 268 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,919 but also by going after the ideas of these people, 269 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,879 this evil, bankrupt ideology based on a perversion of Islam. 270 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,879 And the best way of doing that is to show how the values of freedom 271 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,039 and tolerance and respect for people of other religions and races, 272 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:52,840 is the best way to lead our lives. 273 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,439 The other aspect, we were getting reports 274 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:00,999 of armed police 275 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,840 at University College Hospital, quite close to Warren Street, of course. 276 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,519 Let's just bring you some pictures now we're receiving 277 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,079 as police search people in the area. 278 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:13,720 Step back for me, please. 279 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,319 I mean, I always identified as Muslim, and I was really proud to be Muslim, 280 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,400 but, all of a sudden, it was like the lines were drawn. 281 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,199 No. 282 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,599 Your name identified who you were. 283 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,319 How you looked identified how you were treated. 284 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:40,039 Anybody who was Muslim, or even, like, looked a bit Muslim. 285 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,319 Reports someone had been seen running away 286 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,639 from Warren Street tube station. Male, Black, possibly Asian appearance. 287 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,119 And of course, you know, like everybody else in the world, 288 00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:52,679 Muslims were wanting to be able to be safe, 289 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,879 walking on the streets, not to be victims of these awful attacks. 290 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,079 But we actually had another burden placed on us as well of suspicion, 291 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,600 of racism, and, um, a lot of discrimination. 292 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,400 Police had him pinned to the wall. 293 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,600 Um, I would say he's a Pakistani guy. 294 00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:14,279 And apparently the rumor was, 295 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,080 there was another one upstairs, hiding in a cupboard. 296 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,359 We had to strike that balance 297 00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:24,919 between making sure we didn't end up with the Muslim community 298 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,199 feeling that it was being targeted as a whole, 299 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,799 but, on the other hand, responding to what was a genuine, 300 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,559 and perfectly justifiable, anxiety in the broader community 301 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,000 that there was a problem, and we had to deal with it. 302 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,639 Police released him, a victim, he said, of appearances. 303 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:45,920 I'm like everyone, you know? 304 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,079 - Thanks a lot, sir. - All right. 305 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:49,400 Have a good day. Bye. 306 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,039 You know, the profiling that was going on at the time, 307 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,399 it just felt that we were building to this point 308 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,400 where, at some point, it would go too far. 309 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,359 I was quite recently into the counter-terrorism world, 310 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:14,799 {\an8}and I suppose people saw me as the guy 311 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,119 {\an8}who was brought in to deal with proactivity around counter-terrorism, 312 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:22,240 {\an8}manhunt-style activity, so if we had to find people quickly. 313 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:31,040 I was responsible for identifying them, locating them, and bringing them in. 314 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,720 There's a whole machine that comes into action. 315 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,760 We're doing lots of CCTV trawling to capture who may have been in the area. 316 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,319 To track back where they may have come from, 317 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,960 and to take forward where they may have gone. 318 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:55,999 Securing any intelligence, 319 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,879 using all the sensitive and secret techniques that we have 320 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,200 before they could put right whatever went wrong with these devices. 321 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,879 We had no idea at the time if they were just another cell 322 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,959 within a larger organization or a completely independent group. 323 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,199 And the starting point for that is you need a starting point. 324 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,040 It's a manhunt for who? 325 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,959 The role of MI5 at this stage is to support and help the police 326 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:33,360 to the best of our ability. 327 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,480 We're looking at all our coverage of people on our radar. 328 00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:45,879 We know of people, regularly know of people, 329 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,959 without knowing what they're going to do. 330 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,479 And people who don't appear to be a threat, 331 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,160 overnight, become one. 332 00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:58,319 And unless you're watching them at that moment, 333 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,800 you may not detect that transition. 334 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,240 It's a question of finding and connecting that intelligence. 335 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,559 This is a, as you'd expect, a 24-hour operation. 336 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,160 People working through the night... 337 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,199 I'm pushing people to do more and more and more 338 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,719 and get more information 339 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,880 to understand where these failed suicide bombers are. 340 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,640 {\an8}Once the scenes had all been declared safe by the explosives officers, 341 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,920 the crime scene investigators had begun their searches of the scene. 342 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,960 Our forensic officers recovered some items, including photographs, 343 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,999 and a gym membership card from the rucksack 344 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,120 that had been left behind at Shepherd's Bush. 345 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,640 A critical breakthrough. 346 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,240 We got a call in the very early hours of the morning. 347 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,639 And under the Terrorism Act, 348 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,799 {\an8}two CID officers asked us to attend the premises. 349 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,560 {\an8}We were very concerned. 350 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:32,560 We opened the club. 351 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,759 We turned the computers on in the dead of night. 352 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,920 They wanted to get a visual and a positive ID on a member, 353 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:44,360 Hussain Osman. 354 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,920 They were asking what type of person he was. 355 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,639 He was polite, pleasant to members of staff. 356 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,319 He was known by members of staff by name. 357 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,519 Hussain Osman seemed like any other normal member, 358 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,200 and that's why it was so shocking for everyone when we found out. 359 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,879 Why didn't we know there was something wrong with that individual? 360 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,680 He was so under-the-radar. 361 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:23,080 They wanted to have an ID of Hussain Osman and his address from our system. 362 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,640 We confirmed that the address was 21 Scotia Road. 363 00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:50,280 {\an8}In 2005, I was a surveillance operative at SO12 Special Branch. 364 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,520 It was dedicated surveillance working against counter-terrorism subjects. 365 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,800 Following people, in layman's terms. 366 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,280 We were briefed around 7:45. 367 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,519 As part of our briefing, we were shown a photographic pack 368 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,120 with a subject whose code name was Nettle Tip. 369 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:31,999 Believed to be Hussain Osman, the failed Shepherd's Bush suicide bomber. 370 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:37,200 We were shown an image of him, a photocopy of a gym membership card. 371 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,040 It was a grainy image, of poor quality. 372 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,519 Our briefing was expedited. Rushed, almost. 373 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,479 But the stakes were high, we knew that. 374 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,000 We knew that it was important we get out there and look for these people. 375 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,239 The Grey Team, we made our way, 376 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,840 and we sat off from the address in South London. 377 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:10,559 21 Scotia Road, I believed, was a single address, an address. 378 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,439 The address where either the failed suicide bombers, 379 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,879 or associates of failed suicide bombers, 380 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,560 were potentially residing. 381 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,040 Elsewhere, the firearms teams were briefed separately. 382 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:35,800 The morning of 22/7... 383 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,359 {\an8}we were told, "Today, you may be called upon to use unusual tactics." 384 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,159 {\an8}And I think someone said, "What do you mean, like a critical shot?" 385 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,079 And he said, "All I'll say is don't question anything you're told, 386 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,160 because you will not have the full picture." 387 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,599 They gave us already-loaded, fresh magazines 388 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,080 with hollow-point ammunition. 389 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,599 We were told that some of the devices could be small, like a suicide vest. 390 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,759 It could be a belt with a bomb in it. 391 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,999 It could be a coffee jar size that could go in a pocket. 392 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,039 When we left there, 393 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,720 we were under no illusion how dangerous these bombers were. 394 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,760 We were told they were highly motivated, determined, and deadly. 395 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,039 It was the first full day of the manhunt. 396 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,759 It's hard now to actually convey properly 397 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,519 how much activity is going on, 398 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,719 how much intelligence we're trying to live-feed into the control room. 399 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,679 We're deploying surveillance teams, firearms teams, investigators, 400 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:52,039 all covertly deployed so not to come to notice of anybody, 401 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,199 because these individuals most likely would've had some sort of, 402 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,280 um, 403 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,640 homemade explosives with them. 404 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:04,560 The consequences of not getting this right were not lost on me. 405 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,119 The overarching plan 406 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,720 was that those in the address would be dealt with on the street, 407 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,840 to negate an incident similar to Madrid the previous year, 408 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,400 where an entry was made into a bomb factory... 409 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,560 ...and the location ended up exploding. 410 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,399 I was sat on the outer cordon. 411 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,040 The observation van's on an inner cordon, 412 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:53,320 using a handheld camcorder to capture video of persons leaving the address. 413 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,760 We hear on the radio... 414 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,880 But, at that time, the operative deployed in that vehicle 415 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,640 had some difficulties in maintaining surveillance. 416 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:17,640 He was having a pee. 417 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,959 For whatever reason, there had been some sort of cock-up in the OP van. 418 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,039 Normally, they would've had a good opportunity to take a photograph, 419 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:36,119 which they then could've probably compared to a photograph of the subject 420 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,280 and could've said there and then if it was or wasn't him. 421 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:47,959 We were waiting at barracks, 422 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,000 and we're hearing this over the radio channel in the car. 423 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,839 We were told we would only be used 424 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,960 if one of the subjects was identified as one of the bombers. 425 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,560 There was a designated senior officer, who was Cressida Dick. 426 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,720 And the silver commander was Jon Boutcher. 427 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:15,240 I then heard... 428 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,160 Can someone do a walk-by? 429 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:30,839 I jumped out of the vehicle 430 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,200 and walked on the opposite side of the footpath. 431 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,599 I looked at him, and I made the assessment that, 432 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,159 based on the image that I'd been shown in the briefing, 433 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,400 which is our one and only image, 434 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,040 I couldn't say yes or no at that stage. 435 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,520 It was all a bit rushed. We were catching up. 436 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,360 And at that time, there was no direction from the control room. 437 00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:26,679 When he got on a bus, it's like, "Oh my God, it's a whole new ballgame." 438 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,960 "Why-- why did we let him get on a bus?" 439 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:36,759 My initial thoughts were, "Damn, that's now gonna be tricky." 440 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,160 "We need to get someone on the bus as soon as possible." 441 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,680 One of my colleagues boards the bus. 442 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,720 So that operator has to be very careful about how he conducts himself. 443 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:54,679 There's a huge risk here. 444 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,159 The person is not carrying a rucksack, 445 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:02,000 but that didn't necessarily mean we viewed him as less of a threat. 446 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,679 My colleague on the bus made reference to the subject having distinctive eyes, 447 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,600 almost Mongolian-looking. 448 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,720 They said to us to... 449 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,960 They wanted us nearby in case they decided that we needed to intervene. 450 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,320 It was quite tense in that car. We had several radio systems. 451 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,040 So it was quite chaotic. 452 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,999 I was working with C2, the operator in the car, 453 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,319 working all the radios. 454 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,439 He was talking to control. 455 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,160 He probably had 101 things going on in his head. 456 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,759 {\an8}I have never spoken about this publicly. 457 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,119 {\an8}This'll probably be the only time that I'll talk about it, 458 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,320 {\an8}rather than take it to my grave. 459 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:21,720 The difficulty with this operation was we had to answer to someone senior. 460 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,040 The control room were in touch, but there were very limited instructions. 461 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:48,360 The male begins to make his way towards Brixton Underground station. 462 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,160 When he arrives, he pauses, 463 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:57,119 and then looks to make his way back towards the same bus 464 00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,439 that he had just stepped out of. 465 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,320 And of course, this is being spoken about on the radio. 466 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,880 And it sounds like odd behavior. 467 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,279 One of the things it could mean 468 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,239 is that he was practicing a thing called anti-surveillance, 469 00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:21,599 where you draw people who are following you off of a vehicle, 470 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,440 and then you go back, and you see who follows you back on. 471 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,120 It was looking more and more likely that this was the subject. 472 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,320 Over the radio, he was described as edgy. 473 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:50,240 In my head, I kept thinking, "It's escalating." 474 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:55,560 At some point, I felt that it was going down the road that we'd have to intervene. 475 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:10,759 The team leader in the car expresses his personal opinion that, 476 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,759 you know, for what it's worth, he thinks it's him. 477 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,719 But at no point throughout the surveillance 478 00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:21,680 was a positive or negative confirmation made around the identification. 479 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:28,240 All of us heard at some point during that follow, "Yes, it's him." 480 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,600 The subject crosses the road 481 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,879 and crosses into Stockwell Underground Station, 482 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:48,679 which happens to be the point of entry 483 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,600 for the failed bombers from the day before. 484 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,120 We're now in a... a danger zone 485 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,759 because we know that when we go down onto the platforms and the trains, 486 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:11,600 the radios will not work. 487 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:13,760 My colleague said... 488 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,360 Hoping that he would then get authority to arrest him. 489 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,920 I see him pick up a copy of the Metro and then move towards the barriers. 490 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,280 And my colleague and I follow. 491 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,560 He must be challenged before getting down the tube. Stop him! 492 00:39:45,720 --> 00:39:49,400 Commander Dick gave the order for us to carry out the stop. 493 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,119 But that was unbeknown to us because 494 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,640 we'd already moved inside the station, and our radios didn't work in there. 495 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,279 The next thing I heard from our control vehicle was, 496 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,359 "He must not be allowed to get on that train." 497 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,119 "Do not let him get on that train." 498 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,519 They want us to stop the subject getting on. 499 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,920 State red, 19. SO19 doing stop. 500 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,840 My thoughts were, "He's identified. That's him." 501 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:32,479 I knew he was at least a minute, 502 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,000 maybe two minutes, ahead of me, so I had to run. 503 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:40,119 I'm thinking, "I cannot believe we've allowed this situation to develop." 504 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:44,319 We've allowed someone we believe is a suicide bomber into the tube network, 505 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,960 could have a device on him, and he could initiate that device. 506 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,039 It was a nightmare scenario because we all knew we'd lose radio comms, 507 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:54,640 and we'd be on our own. 508 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,440 My only way in was to leap over the barrier. 509 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,720 I remember chasing down the escalator steps. 510 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,280 I drew my weapon, and I put it behind my back. 511 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,360 C2 and C12 were in front of me. 512 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,320 We weren't shouting "armed police." We were covert until compromised. 513 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,160 The surveillance officer indicated who the subject was. 514 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,959 A lot of our training had been around the danger from hands. 515 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,439 Being able to connect a battery or detonate a device. 516 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:41,519 Secure the hands. 517 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:45,399 So my colleague moved towards him and wrapped his arms around him. 518 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,280 The surveillance officer pinned his arms to the side. 519 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,999 I was convinced that we were about to die. 520 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,800 I had a responsibility, and I feared the very worst. 521 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,880 I fired, and so did my colleague, Charlie 12. 522 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,279 And I kept firing until I was absolutely certain 523 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:08,920 there was no further threat. 524 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,919 Good morning. Welcome to a BBC News special. 525 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:31,120 There is now a major security alert at Stockwell tube station in South London. 526 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,120 If anything, time had slowed down. 527 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,160 I could not believe what had just happened. 528 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,559 To be frank, I was numb with shock, 529 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,640 because of the horror of what had occurred. 530 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,799 But there was a relief that we were still standing, 531 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,920 and we had stopped an attack. 532 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:45,959 Stay with us. 533 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,200 Uh, we're gonna go over to Stockwell now. 534 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,319 An eyewitness who saw the incident 535 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,440 at Stockwell, he's on the line. 536 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,959 One of the police officers was holding a black automatic pistol 537 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:00,279 in his left hand. 538 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:04,360 They held it down to him and unloaded five shots into him. 539 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:06,280 I saw it. 540 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,840 - Was he dead or alive? - He's dead. Five shots. 541 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:13,840 Seriously, he's dead. 542 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,360 The first thought when the gunshot rang out was, 543 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:25,679 "We're all gonna blow up." 544 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,759 I thought, "This is it, it's an explosion. We're gonna die." 545 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:29,840 And then... 546 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,160 a fraction of a second later, I thought, "We're still here?" 547 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:42,919 It was a strange feeling. 548 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,399 I felt kind of euphoric. It was a weird, 549 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:50,880 you know, this adrenaline feeling of, like, "We've survived." 550 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,119 But there was no, sort of, celebration or anything. 551 00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:02,040 It was just... we knew we'd taken a life. It was-- It's a horrible thing, you know. 552 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:15,039 I felt for both the officers, C2 and C12, 553 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:16,760 you know, what you've had to do. 554 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,400 I could not wait to get off the tube, away from that scene. 555 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,800 I remember leaving in an unmarked police car. 556 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,039 You can see on your screen there, a live shot 557 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,599 of the situation outside Stockwell tube station. 558 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:45,079 We know that police were operating a shoot-to-kill policy, 559 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:49,520 and I think in most cases that would be a shot to the head. 560 00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:56,040 There was just lots of shooting, and then a man... 561 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:03,639 A man near the door in our carriage was just pushed to the ground and shot. 562 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,839 This is, at the end of the day, or it looks like, hot pursuit, 563 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,479 and that is a plus for us. 564 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,919 These are our security forces hunting these people down. 565 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:14,479 That is a good thing. 566 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,480 And appear to have pinpointed them, and appear to be acting decisively. 567 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,519 Yeah, I remember it so clearly. 568 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,959 I was in a café. 569 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,439 On the radio, it said that a man had been shot at Stockwell, 570 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,480 in connection with the bombings. 571 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:35,800 I wasn't shocked. 572 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,799 As news of the shooting became public, 573 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,879 Muslim leaders said they were concerned 574 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,919 that there's a shoot-to-kill policy in operation. 575 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,399 They could've shot him in the leg, got him to a side and questioned him. 576 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,239 But they've shot him dead, what are they gonna find from him? 577 00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:54,159 This is South London. 578 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:58,959 Within the community, there was a sense of knowing that the police can overstep, 579 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,319 and target you because of race. 580 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,760 There was a fear that, you know, this could escalate. 581 00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,319 We've had a number of phone calls today 582 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:13,440 from just ordinary British Muslims who are feeling very jumpy, very nervous. 583 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,039 There may be good reasons 584 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,520 why the police felt it necessary to shoot this man dead, 585 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,080 but they do need to make clear what those reasons were. 586 00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:37,759 The explosives officer arrived. 587 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,719 He went on the carriage, checked him over quickly, 588 00:47:41,720 --> 00:47:43,519 and said, "There's no devices." 589 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,560 We laid him on the ground so that I could check for vital signs. 590 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,400 He'd found a wallet, and it had some ID in it. 591 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,879 We are looking for four extremely dangerous men. 592 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,280 It may be that the police have found one of them. 593 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,880 The name on the ID was Jean Charles Menezes. 594 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,159 It wasn't the name of the subject, 595 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:23,519 so along with the fact that he didn't have any device on him, 596 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,479 things just didn't seem to add up to me at that time. 597 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,080 I didn't wanna say-- I didn't say this to anybody because... 598 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,879 I didn't wanna start rumors, 599 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,439 because I wasn't sure, but in the back of my mind, 600 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,760 I just started to feel something wasn't right. 52786

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