All language subtitles for American.Masters.S39E04.Janis.Ian.Breaking.Silence.1080p.WEBRip.x264-BAE[EZTVx.to]2222

##

-I've managed
to find a marvelous song

called "Society's Child,"

written, astonishingly enough,

by a 15-year-old girl
named Janis Ian.

This tune is very well known

among the followers
of pop music,

but you may not have heard it

since it's been withheld
by most of the radio stations

for reasons unknown to me,

although probably having to do
with its subject matter,

which is, as you'll see,
somewhat controversial.

Listen hard
to "Society's Child."

##

-# Come to my door, baby #

# Face is clean
and shining black as night #

# My mother went to answer #

# You know
that you looked so fine #

# Now I could understand
your tears and your shame #

# She called you boy
instead of your name #

# When she wouldn't
let you inside #

# When she turned and said #

# "But, honey,
he's not our kind" #

[ Piano playing ]
-Sound speed.

Okay, this is Janis piano,
take one.

[ Beeping ]

##

-[ Breathes deeply ]

When I started out,
I wanted to be a Beatle.

I wanted to be really famous.

I wanted to be the person that
couldn't walk down the street

'cause everybody would stop me
and ask for my autograph.

-What do you consider
yourself, Janis?

-Just a singer.

-Singer?
-Yeah.

-Of any particular notoriety?

-[ Laughs ]
Infamously, yes.

I mean, it's an unreal thing

to have a hit record
in the first place,

and it's even more unreal
to have a hit record

where everybody runs around
saying you're the new Bob Dylan,

the new messiah, yada yada.

-I congratulate you
on what I'm sure

is going to be
a brilliant career.

-Thank you.
-Thank you so much for...

coming to see us.

-Forget about glory,
because that fades.

Being an artist,
it's about service.

It's about feeling like
you were part of something

bigger than yourself.

Music is about telling stories.

This is mine.

[ Chuckles ]

I grew up in New Jersey
in Farmingdale.

My dad and my mom
ran a chicken farm.

It was pretty isolated.

The nearest neighbor
was over a mile away,

but there was always
music in our house.

I think like many
Jewish immigrant homes,

that was a way of connecting.

My father played the piano,

and one day,
when I was about 2 1/2,

I realized
that he was making those sounds.

So I went to him and I said, "I
need to learn how to do that."

And he laughed and said,

well, I'd have to be able to
tell time and know the alphabet.

So I went into the kitchen
and said to my mother,

"I need to tell time
and know the alphabet,

and I need it
as quickly as possible."

The next day,
I marched back to my father

and said, "I can tell time.
I know the alphabet. Teach me."

He started to teach me,

and [Laughs] I think
from the first we argued.

My father ran an integrated
chicken vaccination crew,

which you would not think
was a big deal,

but it was a big deal.

He also was active
in the civil rights movement.

And one day my father went
to a meeting of egg farmers

about the price of eggs,

and he was picked up by the FBI
on his way home.

[ Siren wailing ]

-That was the era
of McCarthyism.

They were accusing people
of always being Communists.

McCarthy tried
to make himself a hero

by taking other people down,

and Janis's father got
sort of caught up in that mess.

-Several times,
the FBI showed up at our door

and demanded entry,

and my father
asked for a warrant.

They said they had none,
and he slammed the door on them.

My dad later became
a music teacher,

but he could never get tenure
because the FBI would show up

wherever we went
and then inform the principal

that he had consorted
with known Communists.

-When Janis and I
were starting out,

the world was different.

I remember a time when,
in the fourth grade,

the teacher said, "Now, class,
when you see the mushroom cloud,

be sure to get under the desk
immediately."

-First you duck,
and then you cover,

and very tightly you cover
the back of your neck.

-They had brought us
to the brink

during the Cuban Missile Crisis

of nuclear catastrophe.

The world that they had created
didn't make any sense anymore.

And the thought was, "Okay,
we tried it their way.

It didn't work.

There must be something else
to try."

-# If your time to you
is worth saving #

# Then you better start swimming
or you'll sink like a stone #

# For the times,
they are a-changing #

-During the '60s, all the new
artists who were arriving

hoped that in some way
they could establish an economy

and a culture and a country
and a justice system

that was more equitable,
more fair.

And Janis and I and others
came up at that time as kids.

[ Applause ]

-It gives me a lot more than --
than -- than the...

-In those days, when you only
had half a dozen radio channels,

there was one folk radio show
in Newark, New Jersey,

once a week for an hour.

I would crawl under the covers
and hide and listen to it,

and that's how I heard
Phil Ochs, Tom Paxton,

Buffy Sainte-Marie,

all of these people that
I later became friends with.

[ Guitar playing ]

-# On this mountain #

-I was in the shower,
and I heard this voice.

-# That ring like mine, boy #

-I had grown up on jazz and
classical music and folk music,

but I'd never heard a voice
like this.

I went racing out of the shower
with a towel draped around me,

yelling, "Who is that?
Who is that? Who is that?"

And my mother was watching
Harry Belafonte's show,

and Odetta was singing.

And that changed my life.

In the same year
I discovered Odetta,

I picked up my dad's guitar
and decided I wanted to play.

I was in camp,
Camp Woodland, at the time.

-# What did you see,
my darling young one? #

-My friend Janey calls them

the commie pinko
red diaper baby camps.

But they weren't, really.

They were more peace and love
Woodstock camps.

-I met Janis when we were like
12 years old at summer camp.

It was very progressive and,
you know, it's integrated,

and you learn folk songs.

I had a blues band,
and Janis was writing songs,

and we were the only two girls
that we knew --

this is in the '60s --

the only two girls that we knew
that played guitar and sang.

-I stole my dad's
Lead Belly songbook.

I learned the chords from that.

Then I started imitating Odetta,
which was terrible.

And then I started imitating
Joan Baez, which was even worse.

And then eventually I started
trying to become myself.

-She was already writing stuff
like "Hair of Spun Gold."

I remember that was
one real early one.

-When I was just
the age of five #

# My world had just come alive #

-I was listening to a fair
amount of old English ballads,

because that's what
I was learning at camp,

and I found this way
to play an A minor chord

way high up on the neck
of the guitar.

And the song
just started to come.

-# With hair of spun gold #

# Lips of ruby red #

# And eyes as deep
as the deepest sea #

-I wrote out the lead sheet with
the vocal line and the chords,

and I sent it in
to Broadside magazine,

and then Broadside magazine
decided to publish it,

not knowing how old I was.

It was a very big deal
to be in Broadside.

They were the first ones
to publish Dylan,

first ones to publish Phil Ochs,

first ones, for what it's worth,
to publish me.

They called the house
and they talked to my father.

They said, "Well,
we would like her to come

and perform at the Village Gate
at a hootenanny."

And my father sputtered,
from what I understand.

And he said, "Do you know
that she's only 13?"

And Sis Cunningham
from Broadside said,

"Well, that's okay.
Then can you drive her?"

[ Folk music plays ]

-We had a hootenanny
once a month

on a Sunday afternoon
at the Village Gate.

The Village Gate was the
biggest venue in the Village.

-I got there,
and I saw all these people

that I'd only heard on the radio
or seen on album jackets,

people like Phil Ochs,
Eric Andersen, Tom Paxton.

This was my first chance to sing
in front of a paying audience.

-We didn't know who she was.

She was this little kid
from New Jersey,

and her guitar
was as big as she was.

[ Guitar playing ]

-Shh!

-Hey, come on, I'm
getting hung up on this chord.

-She got up and she sang
a song that was so full of sass

that Len and I were --
were banging on the chairs

saying, "Great, great."

-I sang my song,
and then I turned around

and went back to my seat,

'cause I was very worried
about using up too much time.

I had been warned about that.

People kept applauding,
and Paxton said,

"Get back up there, kid.
Go on, you idiot."

-In the hootenannies,
you didn't do an encore,

but we made her get up
and go sing another song

'cause we loved her.

She was one of us.

Still is.

-After the show,
my mom went to my grandparents

and asked them
to loan my parents the money

to buy me my first own guitar,

'cause I'd always
played my dad's,

and I got that
for my 13th birthday,

and that was just huge.

I mean,
I suddenly had a way out.

I wanted into the big city.

I wanted to go to New York
and make my fortune.

So when we moved to New York,
I took it for all it was worth.

-# Lazy with the sun #

# Crazy with love #

-We moved when I was 14,
and I remember the first night,

I walked up to Broadway
a block away

and I sat on an orange crate,

and I felt this rumbling
under my feet,

and I realized
the trains ran all night long.

Janey and I
would take the subway.

We'd go down to the Village
on the weekends.

You could go from seeing
B.B. King at the Au Go Go

to Bob Dylan hanging out
at the Kettle of Fish

to the Gaslight
and Reverend Gary Davis.

You could do all of that
in one night.

And if you were an artist,
you got to get in free.

So you got an education in all
of these different genres.

-There was a short period
of time

where it seemed as though
we were all influencing

and playing off of each other
and learning from each other

and sharing with each other
and having fun and goofing off

and, uh,
getting in trouble together.

It was a wonderful time.

[ Guitar playing ]

-# Oh, what a beautiful city #

-In Greenwich Village there
was a very active club scene,

you know,
this kind of folk revival,

I suppose,
is what people were calling it.

Janis was a part of that world.

-# Twelve gates to the city #

-I got to open
for the Reverend Gary Davis.

Gary's wife, Miss Annie,
she liked me a lot,

so she told Gary
he ought to teach me.

Gary took me under his wing,
and he took me to the Gaslight,

and he wanted me to open
for him.

You can imagine
this audience of people

coming to hear an old, blind,
black blues singer.

And here's this 13 1/2-
or 14-year-old white girl

from New Jersey.

They must have been appalled.

-# You make me feel
I'm the only one #

# To know that you're not real #

# Lonely one #

# Turned down thumbs
on the world #

##

[ Cheers and applause ]

-To be acknowledged
by Broadside

and then go to the Gaslight,

I mean, it's sort of
what one did

on the road to being discovered
and appreciated.

-After my show,

this guy came running
backstage, Jacob Solomon,

and he started yelling, "Kid,
I'm gonna make you a star!"

And I said,
"You and what army?"

And he said,
"No, no, no, no, no."

And he pulled out
a business card

and he said, "Meet me
tomorrow at this address..."

which turned out to be Shadow's
office in Columbus Circle.

-Shadow Morton
was not necessarily

the likeliest producer
for folk songs.

Shadow Morton produced
the Shangri-Las.

-# They said he came from
the wrong side of town #

-# What you mean when you
say that he came from the
wrong side of town? #

-He was into drama.

-Shadow was a good name
for him.

He used to wear a cloak.

If he just stood
next to the coat rack,

we didn't know
he was in the office!

-He would disappear.
-He would just disappear.

He'd become vapor.

-He had his cowboy boots
on the table,

and he had The New York Times
propped up in front of him,

and he was smoking a cigarette,
with his fedora.

So I started to sing,
and he kept the newspaper up.

-# Hotels on the road #

# Sometimes get lonely #

# When you turn out the light #

And I thought,
"That's incredibly rude.

Here I am, pouring my heart out,
trying very hard to be good,

and here's this guy reading."

So, at the end of
the second or third song,

I put my guitar away
and closed up the case,

and then I pulled out
my cigarette lighter

and I set fire to his newspaper.

Then I went to the elevator.

##

Shadow had managed
to put out the fire

and stuck his boot
in the elevator

and said, "Wait, wait, wait!"

I don't think he'd realized
how young I was.

He apologized and he asked me
to come back and sing,

and I said, "Why should I?"

He was just
really adorable about it.

So I went back and I sang.

I probably sang him
the 6 songs or 12 songs

I had written to date.

He said, "That one,"
when he heard "Society's Child."

And I said, "Okay. What?"

And he said,
"We'll go into the studio."

I said, "Okay."

He asked if I needed anything
for this session in the studio.

I thought really fast,
that I would never get

a chance to play a harpsichord
or a 12-string,

so I asked for both,

and he asked why
I needed the harpsichord,

and I said,
"For the introduction."

And he said, "Okay."

And then I had to go home
and write the introduction.

-"Society's Child"
is a great song.

You have this young girl
with a guitar

taking on the beast --
interracial relationships.

-I was sitting on a bus
in East Orange, New Jersey.

I was 14,
and I was one of, I think,

four, maybe five Caucasian kids

in an all-Black school
and neighborhood.

Very middle-class, very
upwardly mobile neighborhood.

But, still,
I was definitely the outsider.

I was on the bus
watching a young couple.

He was Black and she was white,

and they were young
and they were holding hands,

and they were just oblivious

to the way people
were glaring at them.

Not just white people.

I mean, everyone
was glaring at them.

And I started thinking about
how hard that was going to be

and wondering
whether their parents even knew

that they were dating

and, if their parents
didn't know,

whether anybody on the bus
was going to tell on them.

I wondered whether the girl

would be able
to take the pressure.

And in the end,
I thought she probably wouldn't.

##

-I mean, that first session
when she walked in

and I'm looking
at this little girl...

I mean, honestly,
I can say "little."

She was the size
of a hood ornament on a Chevy.

I mean,
she was a tiny, little girl!

To think "Society's Child" came
out of a young girl like that.

-14, 15 years old.
-Wow.

She'd never been
to a recording studio before,

and she brought me
a piece of paper, 8.5x11,

with her lyrics,
with the chord changes

written right above them.

And she thought
that was sufficient

to pass out to the band.

-I didn't know
how to talk to musicians

because I only knew
how to talk to folk players,

and that was
a whole other world.

I just thought that everybody
was going to learn it

like we did in camp.

And then we started playing,
and it was just horrible,

and my stomach
was starting to hurt,

and I didn't know what to do.

And Shadow,
who had left me alone

in the studio
with these musicians,

came in
and asked what was wrong,

and I told him
that it sounded horrible.

And God bless him --
George Duvivier came over

and he called the band together
and he said, "Gentlemen,

just listen to the song once.

Listen to the words."

# Walk me down to school, baby #

# Everybody's acting
deaf and blind #

# Until they turn and say #

# "Why don't you stick
to your own kind?" #

# My teachers all laugh #

# Their smirking stares #

# Cutting deep down
in our affairs #

# Preachers of equality #

# Think they believe it? #

# Why won't they
just let us be? #

-When she sang the song for us,

we had to recuperate
for a few minutes.

Out of her fingers
and out of her mouth.

She -- She was connected.
She was a poet.

She was an actor
when she sang, too,

because she got
inside the lyric

and you felt the pain.

-# Up high #

# One of these days I'm gonna #

# Raise up my
glistening wings and fly #

-Being in the control room
when that moment was happening,

man, I felt like
it was a privilege

to be behind the board
handling all the sounds

and all the instruments,
you know?

-We learned a lot
from this little girl.

-They listened, and then
they talked to each other

and they worked out
an arrangement.

And Artie Butler ran back
and forth from the harpsichord

to the organ, playing my intro.

-I sat on one of those chairs
with three wheels, you know,

like a secretary sits on.
-Yeah, yeah.

-And -- And we greased it.

We greased the wheels
so they didn't squeak.

I should have gotten
paid mileage.

I would have --
I would have made more money!

##

-Artie played that amazing rip
at the end on the organ

as a kind of counterpunch
to the lyric,

and it was perfect
the first take.

-She made a record
that is true art.

It's foresight.

It's foresight about what
the world should be like.

-After this session
in the studio,

Shadow took me outside
and he said,

"You don't have to do this,

but if you change this one line,
'Shining black as night,'

to any other line --

You can change it
to whatever you want.

'Shining like the moon.'
'Shining like a fight.'

Whatever you want.
Just not 'black.'

If you change that line,

I will guarantee you
a number-one record."

Folk music has a tradition
of standing up.

You stand up and
you make your beliefs known.

And that's how I was raised,

and that's the people
I was raised among.

Those were the people I admired.

And I said no.

-For me and for Janis,

you took the things
that you really believed in

and cared about,
and you stuck to that.

And you wrote the songs,
you sang the songs around that.

She wasn't going to change words
for somebody else.

-I got to make a record.

I got to hold my head up
in front of people

like Odetta and Dave Van Ronk
that I admired so enormously,

and I was going to
get to make an album.

That was the big deal.

##

-She took on forces
that she probably

didn't even understand,

and that's one of the --

one of the great things
about being young.

Maybe it's only a child
who could sing a song like this,

uh, only a child
who's fearless enough

to take on something so dark.

The right to love
who you choose,

to me, is, like, the most
fundamental right there is.

##

-More than half
my first album budget

went on "Society's Child."

The goal was to get on the radio
and have a hit.

But when Shadow brought
the finished record

to Atlantic Records,
who had paid for it,

they said
they couldn't release it

and gave Shadow the master
and said, "Good luck."

-It was in the middle
of the Civil Rights Movement,

just literally
a handful of years removed

from separate water fountains
and Jim Crow.

And that's where
"Society's Child" came in.

I don't think
that she intended to become,

like, a symbol of social change.

She was writing
about what she knew.

-I say segregation now...

segregation tomorrow...

and segregation forever!

[ Cheers and applause ]

-No intelligent white person
watching this show,

no intelligent white man
in his or her right white mind

want Black boys and Black girls

marrying their
white sons and daughters

and, in return,
introducing their grandchildren

as half-brown,
kinky-haired Black people.

-Shadow brought
"Society's Child"

to 22 of the labels
that were in New York then,

and every single one of them
turned it down.

It was just too...dangerous.

-It could cost you your life

to express love
to the wrong person.

The song was an act of courage.

-Finally, Verve Forecast
released "Society's Child,"

and it got great reviews from
places like The Gavin Report,

but Gavin closed
his very stellar review

with, "Too bad it'll never
see the light of day."

-The record company
was afraid of it.

Radio stations
were afraid of playing it.

All the odds were stacked
against her with this song.

-Robert Shelton
from The New York Times

had heard the record,

and he had called
David Oppenheim,

who was Bernstein's
close friend,

and David took it to Bernstein
and said,

"Let's have her on the show
we're doing about pop music."

And Bernstein said,
"Let's do better.

Let's give her a whole segment."

[ "Society's Child"
finale plays ]

-It kills me -- that sassy
retort of the organ at the end,

that voice, those words,
and that key change.

# But for now, this is the way
they must remain #

##

# I say I can't see you
anymore #

-I don't know if you know what
the Leonard Bernstein show was,

but he's the guy that wrote all
the music in "West Side Story"

and he -- a brilliant man.

And it was like being
on "The Ed Sullivan Show."

-Oh, Janis,
how did you ever write

such a thing at the age of 15?

You're a great creature.
-Thank you.

-That was an embrace of God,

and that just catapulted
"Society's Child."

-It just took off,
and then she took off.

-"I can't see you
anymore, baby.

I won't see you anymore, baby."

Today the singer, the composer,
Janis Ian, is our guest.

The song is
"Society's Child."

This is perhaps
one of the most censored,

I think, of all records.

-Well, it's a dirty song.

-Why was it considered
a dirty song?

-'Cause it talks about
Blacks and whites.

And people don't like hearing
that because it scares them.

[ Siren wails ]

[ Indistinct shouting ]

-What she sang about
in 1966 and 1967 still exists.

People measure their words.

People are very careful
about what they say.

But it still exists.

-It was a very strong,
emphatic social commentary.

[ Gunshot ]

-We live in a kind of world

where when you want to shout
and you want to talk,

they say, "Shh. Now cut it out.
You're dangerous."

You're not really a threat.

Somewhere they were saying,

"You're attacking
the older generation."

-I'm not attacking anybody.
Except hypocrites.

-It would bother
the progressives

'cause it wasn't progressive
enough for them.

And it would bother
the racists to talk about,

you know,
integration, basically.

I would say congratulations.

If you get both sides
nipping at your heels,

you know you're doing
something right.

-Some of the club owners
wouldn't even let her

get on stage
for fear of what might happen.

-I did not know that. How sad.

-"Society's Child"
was the first song

to come along
to incite national anger.

I was suddenly dealing
with things like,

do I go on stage when I know

that someone has sent in

a bomb threat to the theater?

-Anybody who wrote
that song at that time

was always going to
run into some problems.

-# Don't let it bother you #

By the time I hit Encino,

it was probably my fourth or
fifth time on a concert stage,

and I sang my first
four or five songs.

# Changing times ##

[ Applause ]

# Come to my door, baby #

# Face is clean
and shining black as night #

# My mother went to answer #

# You know
that you looked so fine #

When I started
"Society's Child"...

[ Crowd shouting ]
...these people started yelling.

# Tears and your shame #

And I thought that they
were yelling something nice

because, on stage,
you can't really hear

what people are yelling
very clearly.

But I realized
that they were all yelling

"Nigger lover" at me.

I didn't know
if it was 10 or 20 people

or if it was the majority
of the audience.

It became this horrible, uh...

almost prayer-like chant.

"Nigger lover. Nigger lover."

Beat, beat, beat. Mnh.

"... lover. ... lover."

Beat, beat, beat. Mnh.

Nobody in the audience
knew what to do.

I tried to keep singing

and I tried to keep my wits
about me,

but they got louder and louder.

[ Crowd jeering ]

And I knew that I was
gonna start to cry,

and I -- I didn't want them
to see me cry.

So I put down my guitar
on the stage...

...and I walked off stage
and I went to the restroom.

[ Crowd shouting ]

[ High-pitched buzzing ]

And I started to cry.

I-I just didn't know
what I was supposed to do.

[ Crying ]

The promoter came in.
[ Laughs ]

And he had been
in the box office.

He had no idea
what had happened.

So he asked me
what I was doing off stage.

And I said, "Well, they
were calling me a name."

I couldn't even say the words.

I had been so raised
not to use that word.

And he asked me
what they were calling me,

and I told him,
and he looked at me

and he said, "Well,
you don't leave the stage

because somebody
called you a name."

People were getting shot.
People were getting knifed.

People were disappearing.

Freedom Riders
were getting killed.

It was civil war.
And I didn't want to die.

I really did not want to die.

We argued for quite a while.
It felt like years.

And he finally
said something like,

"I can't believe the girl who
wrote that song is a coward."

And I thought about that
for a really long time

because I had been raised
to be a Maccabee.

My family came from Russia

so that I could have a chance.

My grandfather was arrested
on his way across Russia

and locked up
and beaten so badly

that his left hand
was forever maimed.

My grandmother
had hidden in a hayloft

and watched part of her family
slaughtered in a pogrom.

My parents had both fought
and fought and fought

so that I could have a stable
life and get to go to school,

and my friends were
getting clubbed and hosed.

And who was I
to leave the stage?

So I went back on stage...

and I picked up my guitar
and I started to sing again.

And I thought,
"Okay. Here I am."

[ "Society's Child" plays ]

# Come to my door, baby,
face is clean... #

And I made it my business

to get through the song,
get through the show.

And as I kept singing the song,

they kept yelling
and fist-pumping.

And they were standing by now.

And then all of these ushers

came like a swarm of bees
from the back

and they shown their flashlights
into these people's faces

so that the whole audience
could see who they were.

And then the theater manager
came and he threw them out,

the whole clack of 'em.

# "He's not our kind" #

And in between realizing
that these 20-odd people

had actually bought tickets

with the express purpose
of booing me off the stage,

there was also this sense
that what I was doing was right,

and that's why it scared them.

And these other people,
people my age, who were ushers,

the theater manager
and his group,

they were supporting me,

and most of the audience
was supporting me.

# One of these days, I'm gonna #

# Raise my glistening wings
and fly #

# But that day will
have to wait for a while #

# Baby, I'm only
society's child #

It was a life-changing moment
for me

because I realized
for the first time...

that the song didn't just have
the power to make people angry,

but it had the power
to make people stand up

and stand up
for what they believed.

And that was a huge deal
that music could do that.

I think that was a large part
of what set me on my course.

# Don't wanna see you
anymore, baby #

##

-I had obviously heard the name
Janis Ian before we met.

The first time we actually
looked at each other

eye to eye was probably
at the Grammys,

which was '67 or '68, '69,
something like that.

She had bought this gown
in The Village in New York

at that time
just for this occasion.

Janis Joplin
had helped her pick it out.

I thought that was pretty cool.

##

-I got to work with Joplin
at the Berkeley Folk Festival,

then I would play guitar
after hours with Jimi Hendrix.

They didn't care that I was 16.

They were protective
because of my age,

but otherwise it didn't matter.

What mattered was the songs
I was writing.

# Oh, the pretty little girl
on Easter's day #

# By a bright center fountain
consented to play #

# Held in Easter star #

I went on the "Society's Child"
tour with Merka,

my friend from camp
who was five years older than me

and whose family had known mine
since before I was born,

as a chaperone.

I had to have a chaperone

because of the
childhood labor laws.

So it was just me and Merka.

And it was great because
she was like a big sister.

-It's "The Smothers Brothers
Comedy Hour."

-We're going to present
an extremely talented

and very amazing young lady
named Janis Ian.

-I was a big fan
of the Smothers Brothers.

It was a huge deal to me
to go on that.

But when you're shooting
a TV show,

especially in those days,
there's a lot of waiting around.

You might get there at 8:00

and not be called
until 2:00 in the afternoon.

And then you might
be called for 10 minutes,

they show you your marks,

and then you go away
until showtime at 10:00.

Merka was there with me,
and there was only one chair,

so I fell asleep
sitting on her lap.

And apparently Bill Cosby saw us

and decided
that we were lesbian lovers.

-Bill Cosby spoke out
against her.

He said she was
"probably a lesbian."

He said that to the press.

My manager then,
Jean Harcourt Powell,

read me the riot act.

She said that I had almost
gotten myself bounced

from television forever.

My contract
had morals clauses in it.

I could have lost my ability
to perform anywhere.

I could have lost
my union membership.

So I was forbidden from
ever hugging Merka in public

or sitting in her lap

or doing anything
that might be misconstrued.

-How do you react
to the music business?

-If you want to be a star,
then you have to do

what's necessary
to become a star.

-What's that?

-You have to sacrifice

a certain part of yourself
for a time,

and you have to set a balance
between what you say and do

and what you really
want to say and do.

I haven't resolved it yet
at all.

-Child prodigies in general --
and she was one --

have complications.

15 years old. I think she had
$750,000 in the bank.

It's just weird.

[ Bell rings ]

-Can I just say
without going into detail

that I hated school?

My teachers gave me
a very hard time.

-What's happened
with school with you now?

Are you still in school
or home...?

-My presence in class
was found to be disturbing,

and I was asked to leave.

-How disturbing?
I mean...emotionally...?

-I don't know. No. Not me.

I mean,
it wasn't disturbing me.

-It was disturbing --

It was disturbing
the teachers.

-Yeah.
-They get very disturbed,

teachers in New York.

[ Laughter ]

[ Applause ]

##

-In the fall of 1967,
Vietnam war was going strong.

There was a March on Washington
to go to.

My friend John Howell and Merka,

they were driving down
to the March on Washington,

so I went with them.

And on the way,
they wanted to stop by

and say hello to Janis
in New York.

##

I happened to have a pumpkin,
so I presented a pumpkin.

-He held a pumpkin out,
and I thought

he was the most adorable thing
I had ever seen.

We were lovers for five years
and friends since.

-We toured the country,
uh, in small clubs,

then we came back to New York

and we got an apartment
on 72nd Street.

We learned to cook
spaghetti with sauce.

And the Beatles' "White Album"
came out that fall,

so we listened intently to that.

Janis and I never talked about
"Society's Child." Never.

And she also never
sang the song on stage

when I was with her.

-I got really tired
of seeing posters

that said "Little Janis Ian.

'Society's Child.'
Live tonight."

-It wasn't the best move
to never sing your hit song.

-The record company wanted
to follow up "Society's Child"

with something
equally important,

and I was barely a writer,

so it was just one thing
after another

in this perfect storm
of horrible things.

-Back last May,
Henrietta Yurchenco and I

brought you an interview

with a virtually unknown
young lady

by the name of Janis Fink.

She is widely known
for her singing and her songs

as Janis Ian.

And tomorrow night,
Friday, December 8th,

Janis will be making her debut
at Philharmonic Hall

in a solo concert that I guess
will be virtually sold out.

[ Applause ]

-I was 17.
I played Philharmonic Hall.

And as I walked off stage,
I said to my then manager,

"I'm done. I'm leaving.
I'm finishing my contracts.

I'm leaving."

And she said,
"They all say that."

I remember that
that's what she said.

And I said, "They may all
say that, but I'm doing it."

-That was '67,
and then '68 happened,

and change was happening
all over the world.

We were going to see
B.B. King and Janis Joplin.

It was at Generation Club
where Jimi Hendrix had a studio.

-Somebody came out on stage,

interrupted the show
and said something to B.B.,

and he announced to the room

that Martin Luther King
had been shot and was dead.

And then he played.
'Cause what else do you do?

##

-# Sometimes I wonder #

##

# Just what am I fighting for? #

-The Reverend Doctor
Martin Luther King,

39 years old and
a Nobel Peace Prize winner

and the leader
of the non-violent

Civil Rights Movement
in the United States,

was assassinated
in Memphis tonight.

-# I keep right on stumblin' #

# And there's no-man's land
out here #

-Our hearts got ripped out
a lot at that time.

-We listened.
Played until dawn.

Everybody was so shook.

And then I decided
that I would walk home.

[ Siren wails ]

And on my way home,
a big, beefy guy

bumped into me
and knocked me flat.

This other guy rushed forward
and he said, "Hey, you okay?

You okay? You okay?"
And I said, "I'm alright."

And he gave me a Coca-Cola.

I guzzled about a third of it,
and things got really weird.

# She sits on a window sill #

# Looking down,
it's quite a thrill #

-The world started to shimmer.

It was like everything
had light at the edges.

And there were flames.
Cars were melting.

And then the street got wavy.

It was your proverbial
bad acid trip.

Now, in retrospect, I know
if I'd drunk that whole thing,

I would have been
checked out forever.

# Looking outward
through my pain #

# Looking through
my window pane #

# See her face turn into rain #

-I was just hallucinating
for four days.

-She would say crazy things.

No, she wouldn't be able
to answer the phone.

She would not --
She refused to talk to people.

##

-# Well, I'm tired
of being a fool #

# And my mind going
from hot to cool #

# And trying to conform
to others' ideas #

# And someone else's rules #

-She was not able to cope
with daily reality.

-I was terrified
most of the time.

I smoked a lot of dope.

##

I just wanted to sleep
until it was different.

So I took a lot of Seconal.

when Peter was supposed to
be gone for the day.

I got very lucky
that he came home early.

And he found me
and took me to the hospital.

-She stopped functioning.

And her friend Carol Hunter,
who was a guitar player,

helped Janis find a shrink.

And the shrink
was in Philadelphia.

We went to Philadelphia,

met this amazing man
named Gerry Weiss.

-Gerry said to me,

"If you keep trying
to kill yourself,

I'm gonna put you somewhere
where there will be

no pen, no paper, and no piano."

That took care of it for me.

There was no way
I was going there.

Peter brought me books.

He brought me Rimbaud,
Cocteau, all the great poets,

all the things that I had never
really been exposed to

because of my age.

-That kind of
just normal life,

not having to be on stage
and "on" all the time.

It was something
I could give to her...

so she was able to find herself
in a different way.

-The middle of winter,
I walked out with no jacket

and I took the train
into Central Philadelphia,

not telling Peter
where I was going, of course,

because why would I bother?

Poor guy.

-She just disappeared all day,

and I was fearing the worst, you
know, some kind of self-harm.

And Gerry Weiss,
who had never lost a patient,

was also concerned.

-I stayed at the library,
and I just wrote.

I just wrote for the day.

That night,
I walked over to Gerry's office,

found him in his car,
and he started crying.

And it suddenly occurred to me

that there were people
who really cared about me.

Not my music, not my talent.

Me.

That was a big realization.

And then somebody had sent me
Don McLean's record

and I heard "Vincent."

-# Starry, starry night #

##

# Paint your palette
blue and gray #

# Look out on a summer's day #

# With eyes that know
the darkness in my soul #

-It was everything that I ever
wanted to be as a writer.

It was true. It was beautiful.

It was elegant.
But it was accessible.

-# And how you suffered
for your sanity #

-It's a brave song.

And for me, it taught me
the Gerry Weiss was right.

The best way for me to write
was from an open place.

-# Perhaps they'll listen now #

-She was playing music
all the time and writing,

and at the same time,

I picked up a camera
for the first time

and fell in love
with the darkroom.

##

So I was in the darkroom

and I'm quite engaged
with what I was doing,

and she was right on
the other side of the door,

sitting, I think, on the floor,
picking at her guitar

and apparently writing
a song called "Stars."

-# I was never one for singing #

# What I really feel #

-It's a song
that has perspective

on what it means
to be a performer.

People will pay attention
to you, and then they won't.

Your star will rise,
and then it will fall.

And that is the way
of the world.

-# Stars #

# They come and go #

# They come fast,
they come slow #

# They go like
the last light of the sun #

# All in a blaze #

##

# And all you see is glory #

##

# Some make it
when they're young #

# Before the world
has done its dirty job #

# Later on,
someone will say #

# "You've had your day #

# You must make way" #

-It's interesting to me
that "Stars" was inspired

by Don McLean's song "Vincent"

because they're very different
in a way.

Janis actually goes somewhere
that Don McLean didn't go,

which is into self-analysis
and observations

about the present day, about
the attractions of stardom,

as well as the way
it damages people.

-# I just meant
to tell a story #

# And live from day to day #

"Stars" is my story.

"Stars" is every performer's
story in a way.

That's probably why
it's my most recorded song.

But for me, after I wrote
"Stars" and then "Jesse,"

I thought, "Well, maybe
I can be a really good writer."

"Jesse," take one.

# Jesse, come home #

# There's a hole #

# In the bed where we slept #

-"Jesse" has an aura.

It is something unique
and it gets under your skin,

and you can't really say
what all that is.

-# Hey, Jesse #

# Your face #

# In the place where we lay
by the hearth #

-Somebody is lonesome
and wants their person back.

To find the ways to say that
that aren't trite,

that's the trick.

I think that's what
makes the song brilliant.

# And I'm keeping
the light on #

-It takes you right into
the experience of longing,

of yearning, of hunger,

of almost being blinded
by loneliness.

-# Hey, Jess #

# Me and you #

# We'll swallow #

# The light on the stairs #

# We'll do up my hair #

# Come home #

##

-She had a meeting in L.A.
to go to, so she took a flight.

It was literally one of the
first times we'd been separate.

-I flew out to L.A.,
and I tried to strip away

everything that
I had been taught I was

and become who I actually was.

And I started morphing then,

as you do in your
late teens, early 20s,

into a different person
physically.

All of a sudden, I had
short hair, and it was like,

"Oh, look at this.
I'm a different human being."

-Janis came back
with the announcement

that she had fallen in love
with another woman.

"She left me for another woman"
is the joke I make.

And after I got over the shock,

I did nothing but encourage it.

-So, I was attending
this health club, The Sanctuary,

and I met this teacher, Claire,

and just fell head over heels
with her.

-# Now am I humble,
who once was proud #

##

# Now am I silent,
who once was loud #

# Now am I waiting #

# For the sound
of your saying #

# Lover, am I... #

-Claire was an earth mother.

She was all of the things

that would be wonderful in your
first relationship as an adult,

just as Peter was all the things
that were wonderful

in my first relationship
as an adolescent.

-Although I didn't know
how my life would go from there,

it was kind of exciting

that I would have
an independent life again.

-# Home again #

-He had a real eye
for a portrait.

I mean, all of my photos

from 1968 right up
through the '80s was Peter.

-# Hmm-hmm #

-I moved in to a little place
on Hollywood Boulevard,

couldn't afford
air-conditioning.

I would go down to a store
called Zodys in the summer

and sit and nurse a Coca-Cola
for two hours

and sit in their
air-conditioning.

It was great
because I had nothing to do

and no money to do it with

but write all day long.

-She was writing songs
and doing something

that was very special,
and people picked up on it.

Her and Claire came to our house
in Woodstock and stayed with us.

And Brooks Arthur came up.
And Jean.

You know,
Jean Powell was the manager.

And they were gonna talk
about doing a record.

-Knowing Janis from '65
and "Society's Child,"

we did groove back then, and
there's no reason in the world

we couldn't groove again,
you know?

##

-# I love the light, I love
the changing season #

# I love without
much thought to reason #

# I'd give it all
if I could make you see #

# I love the man
that you were meant to be #

-I had been playing
with Janis for a bit.

Janis had started recording
the "Stars" album.

We used to work at 914,
which was Brooks' studio.

-I would record
in the mornings.

Melanie would come in after,

and then Springsteen
would come in after,

so the studio was running 24/7.

The more that I put together
this album,

the more I realized
I was tremendously excited.

-# I love the man
who hides behind you #

# I love the shadow,
though it disappears #

# I love the afterglow
reflected through the tears #

# I love the shadow
in my tears #

# Ooooh #

# I love the dreams
you can't remember #

-Brooks was just at the height
of his engineering prowess,

Ron Frangipane
at his arranging prowess,

and they believed in me
when nobody else did.

-My wife, Marilyn,
and I got a second mortgage

to pay the studio bills.

We found a little bungalow for
her and her housemate, Claire.

And Claire
attended the recordings

like a studio groupie.

-# You've got me on a string #

-She'd come in with food,

make sure Janis
was eating correctly,

and then they would primp
and prop their hairs together.

You know what I mean?

They would fix up their faces
and be chicks for a minute.

-# I'm holding on to no one #

-That's something
I'll always remember, you know?

"Move over. I have to
go out and do a vocal."

"Yeah, but fix your hair.
You gotta look right."

-# I would get down
on my knees #

-The guys envied
and goggled over Claire,

and yet Janis was the one
who took her home, you know?

-In those days,
we were all kind of

progressive hippies, you know?

Anything goes.
Everything's fine.

It was family.

##

The first few tracks
with Janis on "Stars,"

we cut them as trios --

just me and Janis
and Richard Davis,

probably one of the 10 greatest
upright bass players ever.

When he would play with Janis,
the music would just soar.

# Come and dance,
come and dance #

# I'm home from overseas #

# And I need your company #

# Celebrate the victory #

-I had a meeting with
my friend Charles Koppelman,

who was then the head
of Columbia Records,

and he said,
"What's Janis' deal?

We love what we're hearing."

I said, "She needs a comeback.

Time hasn't been easy for her."

Charles Koppelman said
that if I could go down

to the Columbia CBS convention

and get 600 promotion people
to give me a standing ovation,

I could get a record contract.

So I went down with Barry
Lazarowitz and Richard Davis.

-Ladies and gentlemen...
-And we came out on stage.

-...Janis Ian!

-# I miss you #

# Jealous lover #

# Won't you come on over
to my side of town? #

# I need you #

-Janis standing there
with just an acoustic guitar,

you could hear a pin drop.

It was just mesmerizing.

-# I see you,
a world without end #

# And I need you
all over again #

# Without you,
the sun doesn't shine #

# Tomorrow is blind #

# Without you #

-I got my standing ovation
and I got a record contract.

[ Applause ]

-That's Janis Ian.

Alison Steele, The Nightbird.
WNEW-FM in the new groove.

And we fly many miles.

-The record came out
and started to make it.

-Alison Steele, The Nightbird,

went completely through
the first side,

flipped the album over,

and played the complete album
on the second side,

which is a miracle
in those days.

And then, of course,
Roberta Flack recorded "Jesse."

-# Hey, Jesse, your face #

# In the place #

# Where we lay by the hearth #

-Roberta Flack was
total royalty in the '70s.

She was at the top
of every chart.

She was winning tons of Grammys.

If Roberta Flack was
gonna cover your song,

that was gonna take you places.

# I was never one for singing #

# What I really feel #

-Cher recorded "Stars" itself,
the title track.

-Mel Torm� covered it.
And Glen Campbell.

Just this amazing
wide group of artists.

# Stars, they come and go #

# They come fast,
they come slow #

# They go like
the last light of the sun #

# All in a blaze #

# All you see is glory #

-Somehow, between
the age of 10 and 14 --

and I don't know how --

I decided that I was
going to be a performer

and a songwriter and a player,

and I knew
that I wanted to record

and I wanted to arrange,

and the only person
doing all of them

that I could find
was Nina Simone.

-# Some make it
when they're young #

# Before the world
has done its dirty job #

-Janis may not have been
thinking about Nina Simone

when she wrote "Stars,"
but you certainly can see

how the lyrics to that song
apply to Nina Simone's life.

She was one of the greatest
geniuses popular music ever saw,

but also someone who suffered so
much in her life and in her art.

-# I'm trying to tell my story #

##

# Janis Ian told it very well #

##

# Janis Joplin
told it even better #

-It is the thrill
of a lifetime

to have a hero
perform your work.

And even then, she does --
she does such a Nina with it!

-For a very young woman

to get almost eaten up
by the same machine

that was afflicting her
and causing her pain,

the identification
must have been instant.

-Sometime between
the "Stars" album coming out

and being able to go on tour,

I had no money
and I had nowhere to live,

so Claire and I moved in
with my mom

until I could actually start
earning enough on the road

to get a place of our own.

And it was hard.

I mean, it's hard
going back home in your 20s.

And in my day, it was shameful.

So one of the things that I did

to feel like I was carrying my
weight was to write every day.

I was sitting at my mom's,
and I was reading

The New York Times
Sunday Magazine.

There was an article by a woman

who talked about
when she was 18

and she had her
coming-out debutante ball.

And as it turned out,
it was a hard lesson.

##

I was playing that...
[Imitates strumming]

on the guitar,
and then I thought...

# I learned the truth #

Literally the first line
of the article.

But "eighteen" didn't scan,
so it became "seventeen."

[Laughs]

-# I learned the truth
at seventeen #

# That love was meant
for beauty queens #

# And high-school girls
with clear-skinned smiles #

# Who married young
and then retired #

##

# The Valentines I never knew #

# The Friday night
charades of youth #

# Were spent
on one more beautiful #

# At seventeen,
I learned the truth #

-I wrote that first verse
and then put it in the drawer

'cause it was scary,

came back to it a month later,
wrote the second verse.

And then I called
Brooks Arthur at 914.

-Janis and I got together,

and professionals in the studio
all suddenly quieted down

as Janis showed us

the first 32 bars
of "At Seventeen."

When the song was over,

there was a gentle ripple
of applause

from the pros in the studio,
the pros in the office,

and the pros coming
out of the bathroom,

and the pros who were --

who heard the buzz
from the football field.

They all came inside. There
must have been 15 or 18 people.

This was my litmus test --
my litmus test

and the first time I realized
that Janis had a smash.

-We were in the studio,

and I had brought in a kid,
David Snider,

who had never been
in the studio before,

because I wanted his energy.

And the guitarist,

who was supposed to
be the lead guitarist,

kept making rude comments
about David and at David

because, you know,
he wasn't a professional,

he wasn't a real musician,
he wasn't in the union.

-She stood up for me.

She said,
"Well, I like the way he plays

and I like the way
he makes my music sound

and I like the energy
he's bringing to my music.

And if you don't like it,
there's the door."

It was really nice for her
to stand up for me like that.

-Brooks backed me up.

The arranger, Ron Frangipane,
backed me up.

And everybody shut up
and we got on

with the business
of making a record.

##

-It's a very hard phenomenon
to explain.

We'd get into our seats
at the studio,

and Janis would get behind the
guitar mic and the vocal mic.

Ronnie Frangipane
would count it off.

And as if by some superpower
or by magic,

in my mind's eye,
we would lift off.

-# Would you like
to sing my song? #

# Would you like to learn
to love me best of all? #

-I watched Brooks and Janis
interacting

when they were mixing
and also recording.

Brooks was a great producer.

He knew how to get the best
out of musicians,

but at the same time,
you could see

that he respected her genius.

-# I'll teach you
how to sing and dance #

# With a song-and-dance
routine #

# And when the party
is over #

# You can fall in love with me #

-She and I would walk through
every bar, every measure.

And, yes, my hands
were on the faders,

and I'll take some credit
for some of the sound,

but it was really
all about her performance.

-# There's always radio #

# And for a dime,
I can talk to God #

# Dial a prayer #

# Are you there? #

-There was some kind of
crazy chemistry between us.

A kind of studio love story.

Music only, though.

-# Extra blankets for the cold #

# Fix the heater #

# Getting old #

# I am wiser now, you know #

-Brooks taught me
to sing on a microphone.

Brooks taught me
how to be in the studio

just like Shadow taught me
how to be with musicians.

And then it became
this great circular thing.

-And that result is art.

-# Ooh-ooh-ooh #

##

-This is one of the reels
from 1974.

The album was called
"Watercolors,"

which became
"Between the Lines."

I can't say the rest is history,
but history was being made.

Irwin Segelstein was then the
president of Columbia Records.

He had a daughter who was
a college-level daughter.

She told her dad to listen to
this song called "At Seventeen"

she thinks that's a hit.

And Irwin Segelstein
called Charles Koppelman.

Charles Koppelman called us

and said that he's gonna
release "At Seventeen."

-We were facing a music industry
with "At Seventeen"

that said, "It's got to be
under three minutes.

This is four and a half.
It won't work.

It's got to be up-tempo.
We can't play it in drive time."

So we send copies of that record

not to the program directors
of radio,

but to their wives.

Every radio station I visited,

I made sure that I homed in
on the women in the station,

the secretaries at the time.

-I got a job offer in L.A. to do
an album with Art Garfunkel.

I was working at this
recording studio right here,

Village Recorders
here in West L.A.,

and Art Garfunkel told me,

"You're in your final days
of poverty.

Your single 'At Seventeen'
is lighting up the charts."

##

I would drive
on the Coast Highway

to let some air out of my head,
and I would click on to KNX-FM

and I'd be hearing
"At Seventeen."

I'd move to another station,

hear "At Seventeen"
in another spot.

All within the breadth
of 5 or 10 minutes,

I'd hear it at four different
radio stations.

-When Janis Ian
was about 15 years old,

she had enormous success

with a song called
"Society's Child."

-Carson at the time
was undisputed king.

-She recorded this album
called "Between the Lines."

-If you were on "Carson,"
it was like

you'd reach
this gigantic audience

and it puts you on the map.

-Would you welcome, please,
Janis Ian?

[ Applause ]

##

-I always hated school.

Because I didn't fit in.

I didn't look pretty.
I didn't feel pretty.

And I think that's why...

# I learned the truth
at seventeen #

-# I learned the truth
at seventeen #

-I played the hell
out of that record.

It was so specific
and so relevant

for generations of women.

To this day, it affects me

the same way
as when I first heard it.

-# And the rich-relationed
hometown queen #

# Marries into what she needs #

-It's not just she's talking
about the pain of adolescence

and the pain of feeling like
an ugly duckling

and the pain of not being
in the in-crowd or whatever.

It's also about being

the tall, blond,
blue-eyed cheerleader.

-# Remember those
who win the game #

# Lose the love
they sought to gain #

-[Laughing]
I was the cheerleader.

I was the girl that Janis
sang about in "At Seventeen."

I was the good girl
who was dating the "bad boy."

-# The small-town eyes
will gape at you #

# In dull surprise
when payment due #

-I don't care if you're
super-handsome, beautiful,

if you're smart or you're dumb,
you know, everybody feels

like a piece of...
in some kind of way.

-I was a very weirdo kid

growing up in the '80s and '90s
in the Midwest,

and all of my peers
were listening

to Nirvana and Guns N' Roses.

And I, for some reason,

was this little sad,
closeted kid who was, like,

listening to Joan Baez
and Phil Ochs

and Janis Ian by candlelight.

[ Laughs ]

The line that always
made me laugh --

because if you didn't laugh,
you would almost cry --

was the line, "To those whose
names were never called

when choosing sides
for basketball."

-# And those whose names
were never called #

# When choosing sides
for basketball #

-I was never picked...

[ Laughs ]
...for any sports team.

-# When dreams were all
they gave for free #

# To ugly-duckling girls
like me #

-I mean,
I was that ugly-duckling girl,

and so the song
hit me pretty hard.

-# Inventing lovers
on the phone #

-The fact that Janis
had such a huge hit

and such an iconic impact
with that song,

I think, speaks to
its universal relevance.

[ Song ends ]

[ Applause ]

-When the Grammy announcements
came out in '76

for the records
that had been released in '75,

I had five nominations.

It was amazing.

-Best Engineered
Non-Classical.

"Between the Lines" --

Brooks Arthur, Larry Alexander,
and Russ Payne.

-I won the Grammy
for Best Engineered Album.

Janis was up for
Best Female Vocalist.

Then Lily Tomlin
comes walking out,

envelope in hand, and says...

-And the winner is
"At Seventeen," Janis Ian!

[ Cheers and applause ]

-It was a night of nights
for us.

It was just an all-time high.

We did it. She did it.

And Janis looked
so beautiful that night.

-Thank you.
It's been a long time.

Thank you. [ Chuckles ]
-Most people can't bear

to have a platform
and not use it in some way.

But she just said,
"It's been a while."

-The album was a smash
and the Grammys were won,

and Janis was
at the top of her game.

-# Bright lights and promises #

# Ain't that what it's for? #

Last three years have been
great because I've been doing

what I want to do
and how I want to do it

with people that I really
enjoy doing it with.

I mean, you can't ask
any more than that.

-# Gold lam� and diamonds #

# Even if my gold is worn #

# Honey, can you show me more? #

-Going from a coffeehouse to,
you know, thousands of seats,

it was just
a fabulous experience.

[ Applause ]

-The Janis Ian world
was awaiting the next heartbeat.

I kept on lobbying
for another "At Seventeen,"

a song that speaks for those

who can't quite speak
for themselves.

I needed another one of those

to launch the third album,
"Aftertones,"

and I was kind of annoyed
that it wasn't coming.

-I make records and I do
concerts and I write,

and they're three
very separate things, you know?

There's no way
to duplicate a record

in a concert, for instance.

There's no way to write
while you're doing concerts.

-There are a few songwriters

who can just
crank this stuff out.

Most of us needed time

to make songs
not all sound the same.

You cannot write,
in my opinion, a hit

just 'cause you're clever enough
to write a hit.

It has to come from
somewhere deep.

-There were some

really wonderful pieces
on "Aftertones."

##

-# Love is blind #

# How will I remember? #

# In the heat
of summer pleasure #

# Winter fades #

# How long will it take
before I can't remember #

# Memories I should forget? #

# I've been burning
since the day we met #

-Songs like "Love is Blind"

and "Boy, I Really Tied One On,"

they're great songs,
they're great tracks.

-The songs that she was writing
were all great,

but some songs are drop-dead,
unbelievably magnificent.

I would have waited
until one more song was ready,

but Columbia
wanted the record out.

And if you don't come through,

the artist is not guilty --
the producer is guilty.

So I felt it was my business
to speak up.

-# In the morning #

# Waken to the sound
of weeping #

# Someone else
should weep for me #

-In Japan, "Love is Blind"
was number one for the year,

but though the album went gold,

I labeled it "cold gold"

because coming off of
"Between the Lines,"

which was multi-platinum,
it was rough waters.

-I knew that album wasn't
ready. I knew I wasn't ready.

I knew it was not
an appropriate follow-up

to "Between the Lines."

Brooks also knew it.
My manager knew it.

But everybody bowed
to CBS's need

for the fourth quarter
for the stockholders.

-# In the heat
of summer pleasure #

# Winter fades #

-Billy Joel and myself
and Bruce Springsteen

were three artists
close to the same age,

all on the same record label,

and so it was natural
for the record label to try

and get us all to work together
as much as possible.

-Billy opened for Janis at the
Universal Amphitheatre in L.A.

They hadn't covered
the roof yet,

so it was open
and it was beautiful.

It was like singing to the gods,
for goodness' sakes, you know?

##

-# Sing us a song,
you're the piano man #

# Oh, sing us a song tonight #

-Billy opened the show,
and he slayed.

He was just amazing!

-He was Billy Joel, man.
He played "Piano Man."

He played "Italian Restaurant."

And the place lit up.
It was incredible.

##

Janis followed Billy,

but she wasn't communicating
with the audience.

She was tuning the piano a lot
and kept her head down.

And she had a beautiful smile,
but she didn't show

that beautiful smile
that particular night.

The contrast between Billy
and Janis was night and day.

-The show was terrible.

That day, I swore to myself

that I would never be unprepared
for a show again.

Didn't matter how tired I was,
didn't matter how hard it was,

I would never turn in
that bad a show, ever.

-A lot of people
started to leave,

and as they were leaving, they'd
be singing a Billy Joel tune,

which broke my heart

because it was Janis' night
to win.

-At the end of the show,
I told her and Jean

that, "Billy blew you off stage,

and you don't want to
let that happen.

You got to involve
your audience.

They made you platinum
and multi-platinum.

And you just
got to be part of that."

Of course,
they didn't like what I said,

and Janis and I got together,
and we talked it through.

-Brooks was a genius engineer,
absolute genius.

And I don't use that word
lightly.

But we talked, and I said,
"Man, you've got two choices.

You can produce people like me,

people who are not going to be
the flavor of the month,

who may not have hits,

but who will give you
street credibility...

or you can go to L.A. and you
can produce those other people."

And I can't fault him for it.

He went to L.A.
and produced those other people.

But, to me, the moment
he took his hands off the board,

he was only half
of what he'd been.

-It took some time,
it took some doing,

but Janis and I repaired
our differences.

Time heals everything,
so to speak.

-Janis and I were
no longer together,

but we were pals,
and she asked

if she could use the apartment
one afternoon

to do an interview.

-A reporter
from The Village Voice.

A guy named Cliff Jahr.

He came on tour with us,
and I kept saying to my manager,

"I don't have a good feeling
about this.

I don't know why, but I don't
have a good feeling about it."

And then one day Peter called me
at about midnight

and said, "I've just seen the
upcoming Village Voice article.

The back page is
about you being bisexual."

And I think I crawled
under the covers

and hid for half a day
until Claire pulled them off me

and told me
to pull myself together.

-On the male side of pop
musicians and rock musicians,

you are allowed
to be flamboyant.

You could sort of
skirt the edges of...

Is this person gay?
Is this person not?

You think of David Bowie.

You think of Lou Reed.
Even Iggy Pop.

You had these
virile male rock stars

who could --
They could toe that line.

Women couldn't do that.

-I was living my life

and living it openly
in terms of my circle,

but not making a huge thing
of it in the press.

So by what right did he say

that that was the most
important part of our lives?

-At some point along the way,
you know, as --

you know,
as love would have it,

I don't --
I don't know exactly what

and when and what day
it happened,

but, you know,
Claire and I fell in love.

-We were on tour,

and my manager pulled me aside
and said,

"You're the only one
who doesn't know.

And here's what's going on."

-Claire was having a scene going
with Barry Lazarowitz,

the drummer.

-Barry hit on me,
and I said no,

so he hit on Claire,
and she said yes.

But she forgot to tell me.
That was devastating.

-Claire went on with Barry.
They got married and had kids.

And Janis was left
in the lurch.

-People come and go.

The work goes on.
The work is the constant.

It's the glory
of being an artist.

-# I'm still in love #

# Though I don't care... #

-I found myself bereft,

and so one night I sat down and
I wrote a very sad love song.

Sent it in to my publisher,

and a few weeks later
he called and he said,

"Oh, we love that jazz song
you wrote!

That's great.
We're really excited.

Aren't you excited about it?!"

And I said,
"Well, my heart's broke,

but I'm feeling
a little better."

-# Silly habits mean a lot #

-He calls me in another couple
of weeks and he says,

"Oh, you know,
that jazz singer Mel Torm�

wants to cut
that song of yours.

Isn't that great?!"

I said, "Well, my heart's broke,
but I feel a little better."

-# I've been parading #

# Yeah, I led a lot astray #

# Why bother waiting? #

# You can have it all today #

-So I go down and make
this record with Mel Torm�.

Six months after it comes out,
the Grammy people call.

They say, "You know, that record
you made with Mel Torm�

was nominated for
Best Jazz Duet for Grammy."

I said,
"Well, my heart's still broke,

but I feel
a whole lot better now."

Two weeks after the Grammys,
I ran into my ex,

who says, "I hear
you took it really hard.

I will stand here, and you can
yell at me as much as you want.

Go ahead. Hit me right here.
Do whatever you want.

I'll just stand here
and take it."

And I said, "I have
four words to say for you.

Thank you so much."

-# Silly habits #

# Mean a lot #

[ Cheers and applause ]

-Bravo!
-How about that?!

The great Janis Ian!
Oh, what a get for me!

-After that whole thing,
she moved to L.A.

and was living with Tino.

He was this real intellectual,
and he was an older man.

I remember him really being,
like, kind of an older man.

[ Chuckles ]
I don't know, man.

It's pretty hard
to keep up with Janis.

-If you're in love
with somebody,

you're in love with them.

You may tilt.
I tilt toward women.

But I fell in love with Tino.

I had been very insulated
in many ways for many years.

And now here was the world,

Here was the Com�die-Fran�aise,

here was Portugal,

here was an entire universe
I knew nothing about.

The man spoke seven languages
fluently.

He could make me laugh
for hours and hours and hours.

-Janis seemed happy, you know?

And that's all I cared about,
is Janis being happy.

-# Anonymous, autonomous #

# Will likely get the best
of us yet #

-At this time
in Janis's career,

she wrote a song called
"Fly Too High."

-I'd been hanging out a lot

with gay guys
who were going to baths.

And so the song was
about the baths, you know?

"Anonymous will likely get
the best of us yet."

-# Run too fast #

# Fly too high #

# Run too fast #

# Fly too high #

-Some people are saying,

"Well, what the hell
is she doing now?"

-Well, I'm just doing stuff
that's going...

-"Ian Goes disco."

-I haven't gone disco.
It's not a disco song.

If I wanted to go disco,
I'd have cut a whole album.

-"Fly Too High" offered
another energy to her music.

And she was a big star
in other countries.

We were given this
red-carpet treatment

in most every country
that we visited and toured in.

-# Someone is waiting #

[ Applause ]

# Over by the window #

# Just beyond the stairwell,
someone's crying #

-I remember the limousine driver
in Japan wearing white gloves.

-In Japan
her concert tour was huge.

Very successful concerts.

-Traveling to Australia,
traveling to Holland,

Ireland, Scotland.

We were taken out
to dinner every night.

It was pretty amazing.

-I got an offer
to go to South Africa

and spend six weeks
playing there.

-In 1948,
the South African authorities

implemented apartheid,

which means "apartness"
in Dutch.

And since then, there was
this discrete separation

between Black and white
in all aspects of life.

-The African people
are realizing

that apartheid
means nothing else

but oppression and exploitation
to them.

-We are going to take action
against you!

-At the time,
there was a cultural boycott

for musicians and anybody
to go to South Africa.

-I thought about it a lot

because a lot of my fellow
performers were boycotting,

and I decided that I didn't
believe in cultural boycotts.

I had the contracts written

so that they specified
integrated theaters,

integrated hotels,
integrated transportation,

everything integrated.

-I think she had
a mission to go there

to literally open
hearts and minds.

-# You come to my door, baby #

# Face is clean and shining
black as night #

# My mama went to answer #

# You know
that you looked so fine #

-The "Society's Child" song

was an extraordinary gift
to a society

that was going through
some extraordinary tensions.

-You are only married
before God, that's all.

-To think that a mixed marriage
is making

such a big shebang here,
that's sort of sad.

##

-Mr. Arti Dixson on the drums.

To this day, I get letters
from people who were there

who say,
"That was the first time

"I ever saw an integrated
band on stage playing together.

"It's the first time I ever sat
next to a Black person,

first time I ever sat
next to a white person."

-She got the consent to
perform to mixed-race audiences,

and that's very important

because that was the very reason
the boycott was put in place.

-We were able to play for all
the people in South Africa,

but there were some
repercussions for going there.

-The UN banned me.

I couldn't do television
or radio for two years.

And they offered me the choice,
the UN.

They said if I would say
that I didn't understand

that it was apartheid,
they would forgive me.

And I said,
"No, I'm not gonna lie

and say I didn't know
it existed."

##

# I sure get lonely #

The job of an artist is
bigger than a cultural boycott.

It doesn't make sense
to keep people

from hearing
what may change their hearts.

##

-When I first met Janis,
her husband Tino was with her.

-He had a gun.

And he showed it to me,
and it went off.

I'll never forget that.

And my ear --
I mean, it took me, like, days

to get my hearing back,
and it was very fortunate

that it just went into the wall
somewhere.

##

-He had to be there
all the time.

He would get very jealous
of anybody I spent time with.

# I said,
"Do you wish me dead?" #

# Lip service to books
you've read #

Things started to get weird.

I couldn't go into his closet.

Then there were locks.

Then he hit me.

And I remember thinking,

"I have a lot of money
and I have fame

and I'm not one of those women."

-She acted
like everything was fine.

She was very under his thumb,
though.

I mean, I knew that, but
I didn't think it was a problem.

-# Go find a fence #

# Locate a shell #

# And hide yourself #

# Go on, go to hell #

# Go away from me #

The last time I saw him,

he held a gun on me
for seven hours.

I talked to him
about being Catholic,

about how his grandmother
would feel.

I urged him to take more Valium
because he took a lot of Valium.

I urged him to keep drinking.

I hoped he would pass out.

# Hold the darkness
and stay the night #

He finally agreed with me
that he was tired,

and I helped him up to bed,
left the house.

That was it.

And it's a terrible thing
to say in some ways,

but the day that he died was the
day that I finally felt free

because I no longer had to worry
about him coming for me.

# Set me free #

##

[ Telephone rings ]

[ Birds chirping ]

I woke up one day,
and my checks had bounced.

Somebody called me
from a credit card company

and said,
"Are you aware that your bill

is three months overdue?"

And I said, "Oh,
that's got to be a mistake.

My business manager's been
with me since I was 14."

It wasn't a mistake.

He'd been running two sets of
books out of Chemical New York.

So when it looked like
I had paid

$20,000 in taxes on one set,

the exact same check went to pay
$20,000 of his taxes.

-She's literally back
at square one.

And meanwhile, during all
of this now, her mom is sick.

##

-Got on the phone
with the IRS agent, Mr. Granite.

You cannot make that up.

And his first words to me were,

"...you.
I know about you artists.

...you."

And I said, "Look,
I'm sole support for my mother.

"She's got multiple sclerosis.

I need $500 a month
to send her."

And he said, "...you."

##

I had a Bosendorfer piano

that I had looked for
for three years

and waited for her
for three years,

and I sold it so I'd have money
to send my mother money.

And by then, I had lost
everything but my instruments

to the IRS.

So, pretty soon, there was
no money left at all.

-She was in dire
financial situations.

Really, by the time that Janis
and I started working together,

our next game plan was,

"Okay, how do we start
to build some intellectual --

new intellectual properties
to try to get you out of this?"

##

-When things fell apart
for Janis,

she needed to find a place
to pull her life back together.

She had fame.
She had a fortune and lost it.

What she needed was to remember

why she became a songwriter
in the first place.

She found that answer
in Nashville.

-At the time,
Nashville was very much

a place
that you didn't admit to going

unless you were
a country singer.

I took a flight down there
and I hit the tarmac

and I thought, "I'm home."

-# I've been 'round the hollow #

# Rough times behind #

# Rough times ahead #

-Janis treated herself
like a brand-new artist

when she came here.

She was building herself
back up from scratch,

and the very, very wise thing
she did

was hanging out at the
Bluebird Cafe night after night.

That is the songwriting Mecca.

That's like ground zero.

-# Call my name #

# I'll ring you in #

# Set you down in a country
town where the sky #

# Never ends #

-Don Schlitz
was playing with his friends,

and I got the word Janis
was coming down to see the show.

After that,
every time they would play,

she would come to hear them

and maybe get invited up
to do a song or two.

-The community went, "Oh, here's
this great big pop icon

who really likes what we do
and respects who we are."

-This town was a perfect fit
for Janis

because this is a town

that reveres songwriting
and songwriters

and it's a place where
she could meet her match.

-Kye Fleming had written a lot
of country hits.

I was country
when country wasn't cool.

-"Sleeping single
in a double bed."

-# Sleeping single
in a double bed #

# Thinking over things
I wish I'd said #

# I should have held you
but I let you go #

# Now I'm the one
sleeping all alone #

-Kye had that sort of
commercial edge,

having been
a writer in Nashville

for some time
and having hits.

-I was writing with Don Schlitz.

MCA was his company,
and he said,

"You know,
they're sending Janis Ian here

to write with a few people."

And he said,
"Would you like to meet her?"

And I said, "Yeah, of course."

-If you're a songwriter,
you know Janis Ian.

if you're a songwriter, you know
the integrity of her writing.

And so the opportunity
to sit in a room with this woman

and co-write with her
was an honor.

-Janis had a friend.
Her name was Mary.

She had a restaurant
called Options.

And we would go there
for lunch every day.

And it wasn't doing well.

Tough business.

-We walked in one day,
and Mary was really down,

and I said, "What's wrong?"

And she said, "I'm gonna
lose the restaurant.

"Why should I stay alive?

I'm not doing anything
in the world."

-She started talking
about committing suicide,

and I knew we were both --

that Janis and I were
both feeling the same thing.

It was like, "We've --
What do we do here?"

-We said the usual platitudes,
and she said,

"No, no, it's different for you.

"Whether you have children or
not, your work's gonna live.

But I haven't left a mark."

-What do you say after that?

What did we need to say to Mary?

##

-I was sitting there
with a guitar,

and I said, "Man,
some people's lives just --

I don't know. Some people's
lives just run down."

And Kye said, "Some people's
lives run down like clocks."

-# Some people's lives #

# Run down like clocks #

# One day they stop #

# That's all they've got #

# Some lives wear out #

# Like old tennis shoes #

# No one can use #

# It's sad, but it's true #

# Didn't anybody tell them? #

# Didn't anybody see? #

# Didn't anybody love them #

# Like you love me? #

-We were looking
for this clincher

that we just -- we hadn't found.

And one day we were driving
down the interstate,

and it just popped in.

-# And some people's lives #

# Are as cold as their lips #

# They just need to be kissed #

-"Some people's
lives are as cold as their lips.

They just need to be kissed."

Oh, that's just fantastic.

It's one of the great songs
of all time.

I heard Janis and Kye sing
it together at The Bottom Line.

-The Bottom Line at the time,
in the late '80s

was an iconic club
where Bruce Springsteen

played one of his first shows.

-# Some people's eyes #

# Fade like your dreams #

# Too tired to rise #

-I'm not an easy crier,

but, my goodness...
-No, you're not.

-...you just could not help it.

It was so beautiful.

-It was magic.

And I immediately --
immediately, actually --

sent it to Bette Midler,

who I knew in my heyday
as an A&R man.

-# Some people laugh #

# When they need to cry #

-Bette's album was heard
by millions of people.

And I remember
that we went to Mary's,

to her restaurant,
with a guitar.

-We sat there and said,
"We want to play you something.

And here's your song."

-# Some people ask #

# If the tears have to fall #

# Then why take your chances? #

# Why bother at all? #

-We played it for her.

She just busted out
in this smile.

"That's my song?

That's my song."

-I told her, "You don't know
the ripples you're creating.

Now you've made a change
in the world."

# 'Cause that's all they need #

-Kye Fleming is probably
the greatest lyricist

I've ever worked with.

She made me
think about my work

in a way that I had never
thought about it,

just basics
that I hadn't learned,

like, "If you're gonna hit
the audience

"with a really heavy line,

"give them another
couple of lines

that aren't so deep so that
they have time to recover."

-We were writing every day,

and it was just
total inspiration.

And what is inspiration

except being filled with love?

And of course we fell in love.

-We ended up living together
for two and a half years.

When we started living together,

she was coming out
of a Pentecostal family.

It was hard for her because
she hadn't grown up in a culture

where people were as accepting
as the culture I grew up in.

-I was always conflicted
about the sexual part.

And of course I felt like I had
to hide it from my parents.

They didn't under--
They wouldn't understand that.

-Her mother, Verda,
was so upset,

she got on her knees
for three days

and she prayed to God
to change Kye.

-I knew it was okay.

How can love be wrong?

-# Hearts take time #

# No calls anymore #

# Just four walls
and a lock on the door #

# No denying, you're in hiding #

# But that's all right #

# Hearts take time #

-I ended up
in another relationship.

And that broke us up,
Janis and me.

-We were supposed
to keep writing

even though we'd broken up.

[ Chuckles ] That's what
you think is gonna happen.

So naive.

# One day, there'll be someone
to love all again #

-When their relationship
ended,

when Janis wanted
to get out of herself,

this was the place
she would come.

##

-I was at the Bluebird Cafe,
and I watched a young writer

from a strip-mining town
in Virginia named Lance Cowan

sing a song about the Holocaust.

And I thought, "Here's
this kid from West Virginia,

"not a Jewish bone in his body,

and he's writing about
this subject, and I'm silent."

And I walked out of there
feeling so ashamed

that I hadn't dared to write it

because I grew up
on stories of the Holocaust

and I knew a lot of people
with tattoos.

But I'd never felt
myself qualified.

So I started this song,
and it was a hard song to write

because what do you say?

# Her new name was tattooed
to her wrist #

# It was longer
than the old one #

# Sealed in silence
with a fist #

# This night
will be a cold one #

# Centuries live in her eyes #

# Destiny laughs
over jack-booted thighs #

# "Work makes us free"
says the sign #

# Nothing leaves here alive #

##

# Tattoo #

##

I know what it is
to feel trapped.

I know what it is
to feel terrified.

I know what it is
to feel powerless.

Not to that extent,
not in that circumstance,

but I know those feelings.

And so I can use those feelings

as part of being truthful
in the song.

# And it gets darker
every night #

# Spread-eagled
out among the stars #

# She says #

# "Somewhere in this tunnel
lives a light" #

# "Still my beating heart" #

-That song, whenever
she sings it, always gets me.

We had family
who were lost in the Holocaust,

and that's something
we held onto.

We knew that that could happen
at any time.

It's our history,
but it's also our present.

-# Surgeons took the mark #

# But they could not
take it far #

# It was written on her heart #

# Written on her empty heart #

# Tattooed #

##

-Janis had severe health
problems when she moved here,

and so part of coming
to Nashville

was also to recuperate.

-I was diagnosed
with chronic fatigue syndrome.

I couldn't drive.
I couldn't think.

I was in pain all the time.
It was horrible.

And I complained to a friend

that I needed somebody
to play chess with.

And she said,
"Oh, I have a friend named Pat."

So I called her, and I said,
"Hey, this is Janis Ian.

"Our mutual friend says
maybe you'd play chess with me.

I'm kind of housebound right
now, but I'd love to meet you."

So, the next day
I get this message

and it's on my answering machine
and it says

"Hi, this is Pat Snyder, and
I understand that you called me,

"but I didn't realize
because I thought,

"'Why would Janis Ian
be calling me?'

"And I would love to meet you,

but I have to go now
'cause my dryer is on fire."

We went out for dinner

and Pat said something
about being on a date

and I said, "It can't be a date.
You didn't bring flowers."

And she said, "Excuse me,"

and she went into
the parking lot

and she brought back a leaf.

And she said, "I couldn't find
any flowers, but here."

##

# Through the years,
we've been happy #

# Through the years,
we've been sad #

# And sometimes feeling lucky #

# Was the only luck we had #

-They were just perfect
for each other.

It was just, each met
their person finally, you know?

-I had paid off
the last of the IRS.

After 13 years,
I was out of debt.

I could start working again,
but I needed an album.

I was telling Pat about it
and saying,

"You know,
I've got this song 'Tattoo'

"that I desperately want heard.

"I've got this song
'Some People's Lives'

"I desperately want heard.

And I can't get a publisher or a
record company to save my life."

-Ageism for women
in the pop world starts at --

well, you could say it starts
at, like, age 28 or age 30,

but certainly by the time
you're 35,

you're not as salable
in many people's eyes.

-Pat said, "What would it cost
to make an album?"

And I said, "$30,000, $35,000."

And she said, "How much of
a second mortgage can we get?"

# Come into my solitude #

# Though I weary be #

# Come into my tenderness #

# Dream along with me #

# Listen to the whispers sing #

# Listen to the singer shout #

# Come into my solitude #

# Me and my big mouth #

-What I recall about
"Breaking Silence"

is the intimacy of the record

from its creation
to its content.

Very few of those songs

would have ever had
a prayer on US radio.

-A friend of mine who I was
working with at the time

called me and said,

"'Breaking Silence,'
just nominated for a Grammy."

And I was like,
"Are you serious?"

"Yeah. Best Folk
and Best Engineered."

So, all of a sudden,
people were buying it.

# Breaking silence #

-Silence was such an important
part of the discourse

around gay and lesbian
issues at that time.

Think about
"Don't ask, don't tell."

-...that most homosexuals
would probably not declare

their sexual orientation openly,

thereby making an already
hard life even more difficult.

-It was '91.
Pat and I were together.

We were out to everybody.

So I was all set to be
out to the world.

But Urvashi Vaid,
who was then head

of the National Gay Liberation
Task Force,

took me to lunch and asked me
to wait until I had an album.

# Thought I was the only one #

She said, did I realize that 3
out of every 10 teenage suicides

or attempted suicides
were because the child

thought that they might be gay?

And she said, just imagine
some 16-year-old

saying to their parents,
"I'm gay.

By the way, your
favorite artist is also gay."

So I waited
until "Breaking Silence."

# Breaking silence #

-The idea that here was
a major songwriter saying,

"I'm going
to break the silence" --

I thought that was
very powerful.

-Listen, this is a story
about how you felt at 17.

You couldn't get guys, true?
-Right.

You were not accepted --
-I couldn't girls,

couldn't get guys.
-Couldn't get girls or guys.

You couldn't talk about the fact
that you were a lesbian,

or else you would have been
the outcast of the school.

-Oh, definitely.
I think I would have been dead.

-You were having
lesbian feelings.

-Yeah.
I went ahead

and did Entertainment Weekly

and did Leno
and did all of the various shows

and said, "I am gay."

-I want to explore
sexuality next.

-Not a problem.
-With Janis Ian.

She has a brand-new CD out.

-It was not cool to be out
of the closet in those years.

-I'm not saying
she was ostracized,

but it definitely affected her.

-I remember living with Pat
in Nashville,

afraid to put my arm around her
in the movie theater,

afraid to hold hands
walking on the street,

all of those things where you
go, "I won't be afraid,"

and you go ahead and do it

because you're not gonna
let the world do that to you.

Then you get a Matthew Shepard,

and you realize
how tenuous your position is.

-Some say what happened
at this fence post

in the cold and barren foothills
of the Rockies

was a hate crime.

Others try to pass it
off as just a robbery.

The one thing that's clear
is that what happened

to Matthew Shepard
was horribly brutal.

-Matthew Shepard met
a couple of guys in a bar

who offered him a lift

and then proceeded to hang him
from a barbed-wire fence

and beat him until he was dead
because he was gay.

When that happened, every gay
person in the world flinched.

# Footsteps on gravel #

# At the neighborhood bar #

# Things start to unravel #

# Then they go too far #

# The sound of pain
written on the wind #

# Fades to gray
and then goes dim #

As a Jew,
I was raised to believe

that if I didn't stand up
for the rights of others,

there would be nobody
to stand up for my rights

when they came for me.

And I think that's true
of a gay person, too.

-She turned this horrific
moment into a very pointed

and very poignant commentary on,
what does it mean to be a man?

-# What makes a man a man? #

##

# The cut of a coat? #

# The hint of a tan? #

# It's not who you love #

# But whether you can #

"What makes a man a man?"

I tried to keep that
the focus of the song,

to really just make it a song
where the questions are asked.

-"It's not who you love,
but if you can."

-# That makes a man a man #

-"Matthew" is on a great album
called "Billie's Bones"

that Janis made
here in Nashville.

She also started her own label,

which is something
that a lot of artists today

are doing in order
to get their music out.

-Another way that Janis Ian
really spoke to LGBTQ listeners

was through this column that she
had for the Advocate magazine.

And it was the first time
I realized how funny she was.

Later, I would discover through
songs like "Married in London"

that she has a
very wicked sense of humor,

a very barbed sense of humor.

# We're married in London,
but not in New York #

[ Laughter ]

# Spain says we're kosher #

# The States say we're pork #

[ Laughter ]

# We wed in Toronto,
the judge said "Amen" #

# And when we got home,
we were single again #

[ Laughter ]

[ Cheers and applause ]

I'd been playing in England when
the UK made gay marriage legal.

And then I read
on the CNN news scrawl

that we were about
to be legal in Canada.

So I texted Pat and I said,

"Do you want to get married
while I'm there?"

And she said, "Okay."

# Thank God I'm not Catholic #

# I'd be a mess #

# Trying to figure out
what to confess #

-Janis' entourage showed up
wearing Hawaiian shirts

and enjoying the moment.

Janis and Pat
walked through the door,

and I suddenly thought
to myself, "Holy smokes.

"I've got Janis Ian --
'At Seventeen' --

standing right in front of me."

-We had a New York Times
photographer because Pat,

who refuses to take photos
or be in the press,

said, "I want to be a gay couple

in the New York Times
marriage section."

-This was gonna be
the first same-sex

Sunday wedding vows column

the New York Times
had ever done.

I remember really well
George R. R. Martin

was one of their best men.

-The idea of getting married
as a gay person was so foreign.

We kept thinking that it
wasn't gonna mean that much,

everything was gonna be
the same.

We were really shocked
when we both

started weeping
after the ceremony.

# But love has no colors #

# And hearts have no sex #

# So love where you can #

# And...all the rest #

[ Cheers and applause ]

##

-Her legacy
is not just as a songwriter,

but it's as an LGBTQ icon.

-I had been keeping
a whiteboard

of new songs
for five or six years,

and each time I wrote a song

that I felt was the best
I would ever be able to do,

I would put it up
on the whiteboard.

Songs fell off, songs went on,
and I thought,

"Someday, if I have 11 songs
that I think are impeccable,

I'll make a record."

And then in the middle of COVID,

I looked up,
and there were 11 songs.

There were no studios open.

I recorded at friends' houses
into their tape recorders,

and I wrote the title song

two weeks
before we went to mastering.

I'm gonna sing a few songs
from my new album,

titled, appropriately enough,

"The Light at the End
of the Line."

I'm gonna have a good time.

I hope you do, too.

[ "The Light at the End
of the Line" plays ]

##

-"The Light at the End
of the Line" tour

is Janis' farewell tour.

She really wanted to spend
time with her fans

and to thank her fans.

-I have people
who have followed me

and supported me
since I was 14, 15 years old.

That's an incredible honor.

# You were there
when I laughed #

# You were there
when I cried #

# You were there
as I tell you goodbye #

-I got an email
from Janis a few weeks ago,

and she said, "I just wanted
to share something with you.

"Do you have a good doctor?

'Cause I'm having some trouble."

[ Birds chirping ]

-I got laryngitis.
And I thought it was laryngitis.

I was gonna rest
for a couple of days.

And then one night,
I woke up,

and there was a --
a knife in my throat.

It felt like somebody had
just thrown some knives in it.

And I thought, "Okay,
this is part of the laryngitis."

I got up.
I took a couple of Tylenol.

I went to bed.

My voice didn't come back,

didn't come back,
didn't come back.

I went to a local doctor.

Finally, in real desperation,
I called, um --

I called Joan Baez.

Her otolaryngologist recommended
someone in Tampa

about an hour from where I live.

And she took film of me singing,

and she said immediately,
"You've got vocal scarring.

You've got scarring
on your right vocal cord."

So, that Monday,
I saw the speech pathologist,

and I asked her outright.

I said, "Am I ever gonna
sound like myself again?"

And she said, "No."

-It's hard
to actually describe it.

Tours get canceled.
I get that.

But for it to be someone at
the end of her touring career,

um, and not being able to have
any kind of resolution

is a little shocking.

-I can't hold my notes.
I can't stay in tune.

I'm just flailing 'cause
I don't know where to put it.

I know intellectually
that there is nowhere to put it.

I know that.
I know that this is just

a cataclysmic event in my life

that to anybody else
sounds like,

"Oh, you can't sing anymore.
Well, you can still talk.

You can still write.
You can still play."

Yeah, I could still do all
of those things, but --

but I can't sing.

And I've sung
since I was 2 1/2, 3 years old

when my dad
at Workmen's Circle meetings --

sitting on Pete Seeger's knee.

I've always sung.

[ Janis Ian's
"Tea & Sympathy" plays ]

##

# I don't want to ride
the milk train anymore #

# I'll go to bed at nine #

# And waken with the dawn #

# And lunch at half past noon #

# Dinner prompt at five #

# The comfort of a few old
friends long past their prime #

##

# Pass the tea and sympathy for
the good old days long gone #

# Let's drink a toast to those #

# Who most believe
in what they've won #

# It's a long, long time
till morning #

# Plays wasted on the dawn #

##

# I'll not write another line #

# For my true love is gone #

##

-Where are we going?
-Don't go yet.

Hang on one second.
-Wait, wait.

-Camera.

-This guitar is astonishing.

This guitar is amazing.

This guitar is older than I am.

This guitar is just stunning.
Look at that.

Look at this.
Look at all of this.

I was playing it
and I was just crying

and my wife said,
"Why is it all pitted there?"

And I said, "Well,
that's how I learned to play."

And she said, "I thought you
learned to play on the strings."

And I said,
"Well, that's what happens

"when you're learning
to play with a pick

and your pick keeps
falling onto it, smacking it."

My wife, who had worked
in the Vanderbilt archives,

forced me to start
keeping things.

I used to just throw
everything away,

and Pat was just horrified.

I started keeping them,
and I looked up one day

and I had 200 boxes.

[ Guitar strumming ]

And it's just -- It's almost
like playing a bongo.

Or a conga.
-Mm-hmm.

-You know how you go...
[ Imitates strings whining ]

Like that, on those?
-Yeah.

-I never went to school.
I'd left in 10th grade.

So I didn't have an alma mater
to leave my archives to.

So, I was having lunch
with Teresa Kash Davis,

who works with Berea,
and I love Berea

because every student
attends tuition free.

So, just put this finger
back there...

Like me, who started out
on a chicken farm,

a lot of students come from
rural areas.

Like my dad,
they are the first people

to attend college
in their families.

They're in college
because this is a stepping stone

to a better future.
There you are!

So, I was talking to Teresa
and I started thinking about it

and I said,
"Look, why don't I just

donate my archives to Berea?"

And what I wanted them to do
was to communicate a life --

not my life, but the life
of the times I lived in.

[ Janis Ian's
"I'm Still Standing" plays ]

##

# See these lines on my face? #

# They're a map
of where I've been #

-A lot of us that have
been doing this for a long time,

we're afraid that we won't know
who we are

when we're not doing it.

-We got knocked off
our pedestals,

but Janis has the ability
to be resilient.

-She's got an inner fiber
of steel.

She will always be a writer.

-# And I could not
trade a line #

# Make it smooth and fine #

# Or pretend
that time stands still #

# I want to rest my soul #

# Here where it can grow
without fear #

# 'Nother line, another year #

# I'm still standing here #

-Janis' music will be around
for a very long time

because there's a --
there's a creativity there.

There's a power there.

-This meaningful little woman
wrote giant works of art.

She's true to her music
and true to herself.

-# I'm still standing here #

-# I'm still standing #

-# I'm still standing here #

-# I'm still standing he-e-re #

[ Cheers and applause ]

##

[ Janis Ian's "Stars" plays ]

-# Stars, they come and go #

# Some of them come fast #

# Some come slow #

# They go like the last light
of the sun #

# All in a blaze #

# And all you can see
is the glory #

# But most of us
have seen it all #

# We live our lives
in sad cafes and music halls #

# And we always have a story #

# I'll come up singing for you #

# Even when I'm down #

##