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Downloaded from
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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You should probably
put your chair here.
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00:00:42,119 --> 00:00:43,253
OK.
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00:00:49,986 --> 00:00:52,086
Hello out there in TV land.
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You have to remember, I'm just... this is
not being filmed, you have to remember.
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- It's just, you know.
- Why?
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00:01:01,816 --> 00:01:04,183
OK, are we ready?
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- You ready?
- Yeah.
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00:01:11,148 --> 00:01:12,280
OK.
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This is high
quality film, right?
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00:03:17,589 --> 00:03:22,597
New York in the late 1970s was economically
depressed and definitely crime ridden.
13
00:03:22,622 --> 00:03:27,281
Times Square was full of
junkies, prostitutes, and sex shops.
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00:03:27,306 --> 00:03:32,063
Perhaps because the city has served as
a backdrop for so many poignant films...
15
00:03:32,088 --> 00:03:34,654
"Midnight Cowboy,"
"Taxi Driver"...
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00:03:35,307 --> 00:03:40,097
there existed a romantic allure of
New York City back in those days.
17
00:03:40,122 --> 00:03:46,070
Downtown Manhattan became a magnet for art
students, runaways, and a lot of lost personalities.
18
00:03:46,095 --> 00:03:55,715
The circumstances all came together in a rare mix where the creative and
their inspirations could live side by side in dark, dramatic splendor.
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00:03:56,986 --> 00:03:58,670
Everybody did everything.
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00:03:58,678 --> 00:04:04,678
You had a band, you were a painter, you were an
actor, you were a sculptor, a writer, you were a poet.
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00:04:04,711 --> 00:04:05,844
You just did everything.
22
00:04:05,877 --> 00:04:09,745
People came here to be artists or
musicians or writers or whatever.
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00:04:09,777 --> 00:04:15,344
They could afford to live in Manhattan, and you
could also spend time doing what you wanted to do.
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00:04:15,378 --> 00:04:18,910
You didn't have to have a
regular job to be able to be an artist.
25
00:04:18,944 --> 00:04:21,444
You could just, like,
say I'm a filmmaker.
26
00:04:21,478 --> 00:04:25,944
And like, your first
screening, we would be there.
27
00:04:25,977 --> 00:04:27,645
And you'd be a filmmaker.
28
00:04:27,678 --> 00:04:34,810
Everybody lived, worked in this area around the Bowery,
and you just walked around there and you meet everybody.
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00:04:34,844 --> 00:04:36,211
Everyone would be there.
30
00:04:36,244 --> 00:04:42,778
After a certain hour, downtown became a playground
for a big pool of about 500 or 600 people.
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00:04:51,100 --> 00:04:54,344
Howie Montaug quoted
the term Downtown 500...
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00:04:54,378 --> 00:05:03,085
that there were about 500 people who we all knew each other, and we
all did various forms of art and fashion, and we all kind of converged.
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00:05:21,311 --> 00:05:27,877
I started to see these oblique
pieces of poetry around the city.
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00:05:27,911 --> 00:05:30,844
A pin drops like a pungent odor.
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00:05:30,877 --> 00:05:32,044
Copyright SAMO.
36
00:05:32,077 --> 00:05:35,531
Or make soup, build
a fort, set that on fire.
37
00:05:38,995 --> 00:05:41,819
You see a tag in like,
the art district in Soho.
38
00:05:41,844 --> 00:05:45,077
It was kind of weird, because it
wasn't like a hip hop graffiti thing.
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00:05:45,111 --> 00:05:48,211
There was something
else going on there.
40
00:05:48,244 --> 00:05:50,545
It was obviously
intended for the art world.
41
00:05:53,344 --> 00:05:55,311
You know, a lot of
us would talk about it.
42
00:05:55,344 --> 00:05:57,710
Who was SAMO? Have
you ever met SAMO?
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00:05:57,744 --> 00:06:01,260
Oh, it's an old woman.
44
00:06:01,285 --> 00:06:04,084
And it turned out that
it was Jean Michel.
45
00:06:04,268 --> 00:06:05,621
Didn't you do that
with another guy?
46
00:06:05,646 --> 00:06:07,946
A guy named Al Diaz.
47
00:06:08,378 --> 00:06:10,411
We started doing this, uh...
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00:06:10,444 --> 00:06:14,111
the SAMO graffiti while
we were still in school.
49
00:06:14,144 --> 00:06:17,804
We just wanted to do some
sort of conceptual art project.
50
00:06:21,276 --> 00:06:25,677
The whole objective
in doing graffiti is fame.
51
00:06:29,178 --> 00:06:32,111
Achieving in a certain status
and a certain recognition.
52
00:06:32,144 --> 00:06:36,545
Like, I'm going to take control of that
space, and people are gonna know me.
53
00:06:36,578 --> 00:06:39,378
Jean always wanted to be famous.
54
00:06:39,411 --> 00:06:44,810
The Soho news started
printing our graffiti.
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What he was doing was quite different
from what graffiti artists were doing.
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00:06:48,911 --> 00:06:53,211
What they were doing was writing their name, and
sometimes there was a painterly aspect to it.
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00:06:53,244 --> 00:06:54,977
The SAMO tags had content.
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There were like poetry.
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00:06:57,487 --> 00:06:58,719
We had a hit with it.
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00:06:58,744 --> 00:07:02,066
He had made a
buzz in his own way.
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00:07:02,091 --> 00:07:04,812
He had tagged up a new area.
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00:07:04,837 --> 00:07:05,971
People were seeing it.
63
00:07:14,111 --> 00:07:16,978
It is the Canal Zone, and
it's happening here and now.
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00:07:17,011 --> 00:07:21,941
If you're lost, you can find yourself
right here, right now, in the Canal Zone.
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00:07:24,436 --> 00:07:28,767
We decide that we're going to have a party,
and it was called the Canal Zone party.
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00:07:29,427 --> 00:07:31,394
Jean had heard about this party.
67
00:07:31,578 --> 00:07:35,544
One of the guys came
over and said, SAMO is here.
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00:07:35,578 --> 00:07:37,244
And I was like...
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00:07:37,278 --> 00:07:38,344
I was like, really?
70
00:07:38,378 --> 00:07:40,745
He's like yeah. He's here.
He wants to meet you.
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00:07:40,777 --> 00:07:42,910
I was like, wow, where?
And there he was.
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00:07:42,944 --> 00:07:44,177
SAMO.
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00:07:44,219 --> 00:07:47,701
A-M-O. Come on, you've seen it on the walls
everywhere, especially down in the Village.
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00:07:47,722 --> 00:07:50,211
This gentleman
right here is SAMO.
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00:07:50,455 --> 00:07:52,954
What did you look like then?
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00:07:53,345 --> 00:07:57,522
I shaved my head right when I left home, because
I thought it would be a good disguise, you know?
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00:07:57,543 --> 00:08:01,043
Because they wouldn't be looking for
somebody with a shaved head or something.
78
00:08:02,211 --> 00:08:05,844
And Jean wrote, which of the
following symbols are omnipresent?
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00:08:05,877 --> 00:08:08,844
A, Lee Harvey Oswald,
B, Coca-Cola, et cetera.
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00:08:08,877 --> 00:08:13,744
His multi-choice
graffiti SAMO pieces.
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00:08:13,777 --> 00:08:15,211
I went up to him later on.
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00:08:15,244 --> 00:08:17,645
First thing Jean said was,
you want to start a band?
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00:08:17,677 --> 00:08:19,611
And I'm like, yeah, sure.
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00:08:19,645 --> 00:08:22,311
And we started what
became Gray that night.
85
00:08:35,844 --> 00:08:41,511
And what was special about this band
was that neither Jean or I were musicians.
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Michael was playing the drums like a
maniac, and Jean couldn't play the clarinet.
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It blew me away.
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00:08:47,944 --> 00:08:49,011
I was like, wow.
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00:08:49,044 --> 00:08:50,724
This is the best group
I've seen, you know?
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00:08:54,287 --> 00:08:59,065
At the performance, and he was
just playing a kind of noise machine.
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00:09:03,225 --> 00:09:11,011
Jean Michel was just sort of playing and I remember
thinking, like, this is a totally cool thing.
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00:09:11,044 --> 00:09:15,744
And it also seemed like girls really liked
him, something I had yet to really experience.
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00:09:15,777 --> 00:09:19,411
Jean-Michel's first public
work is the band Gray.
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00:09:34,011 --> 00:09:39,545
I was a bartender in a sleazy dive
bar on 2nd Avenue and 5th Street.
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00:09:39,578 --> 00:09:47,311
And he would come in and he would stand against the
wall, and sometimes play the jukebox and stare at me.
96
00:09:47,344 --> 00:09:49,077
And he wouldn't buy anything.
97
00:09:49,111 --> 00:09:51,944
He had a big overcoat
on and dreadlocks.
98
00:09:53,047 --> 00:09:55,402
It was kind of
frightening, actually.
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00:09:56,611 --> 00:09:58,645
This went on for weeks.
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00:09:58,677 --> 00:10:06,844
Eventually, one day, he came up to
the bar and sat down and ordered a drink.
101
00:10:06,877 --> 00:10:12,444
And he ordered the most expensive
thing that we had, which was Remy Martin.
102
00:10:12,527 --> 00:10:20,840
And I later realized that the reason he wasn't
sitting at the bar was he had no money to buy a drink.
103
00:10:24,783 --> 00:10:26,044
Didn't have any money, you know?
104
00:10:26,077 --> 00:10:29,344
We were still sneaking on the
trains to move around a lot, you know?
105
00:10:29,378 --> 00:10:32,611
Crashing on people's
couches from here to there.
106
00:10:32,645 --> 00:10:33,911
It was crazy times.
107
00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:48,358
I think that's how a lot of us were living,
18, 19 year olds who had just come to New York.
108
00:10:48,378 --> 00:10:52,444
You could live here wild in the
street and live hand to mouth.
109
00:10:52,478 --> 00:10:56,011
I really loved the roughneck
kind of style of living.
110
00:10:56,044 --> 00:11:00,311
Jean was doing it in a much more
intensely radical, bohemian style.
111
00:11:00,344 --> 00:11:02,178
- And you were totally broke, right?
- Yeah.
112
00:11:02,211 --> 00:11:04,545
- I was living, you know...
- From place to place.
113
00:11:04,578 --> 00:11:05,677
Yeah, place to place.
114
00:11:05,710 --> 00:11:08,710
So how were you,
um, surviving, then?
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00:11:08,744 --> 00:11:09,877
I just was, you know?
116
00:11:09,911 --> 00:11:11,645
Just...
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00:11:12,391 --> 00:11:15,933
you just end up surviving,
you have to, I guess.
118
00:11:16,324 --> 00:11:18,088
Is this in Brooklyn, or
did you go to Manhattan?
119
00:11:18,109 --> 00:11:20,144
I went to Washington
Square Park.
120
00:11:20,437 --> 00:11:23,044
Did you ever do, like, take
a part time job, or did you...
121
00:11:23,069 --> 00:11:24,647
- how did you make money?
- No, I really didn't.
122
00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:29,179
Just something really simple and dumb as how
did you have the money that you had to live on?
123
00:11:30,442 --> 00:11:32,395
I used to look for money at
the Mudd Club on the floor.
124
00:11:32,420 --> 00:11:34,645
Really?
125
00:11:34,934 --> 00:11:37,089
Used to find it,
too, most times.
126
00:11:38,051 --> 00:11:40,276
I really don't know how I
got through that, just walking
127
00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:42,444
around for days and days
without sleeping, you know?
128
00:11:42,469 --> 00:11:45,191
Eating cheese doodles or
whatever, just, you know?
129
00:11:45,611 --> 00:11:48,984
And what were you thinking about then?
I mean, what was, like, your vision of...
130
00:11:49,005 --> 00:11:50,511
It's not... this is not funny.
131
00:11:50,544 --> 00:11:51,645
Cheese doodles.
132
00:11:51,678 --> 00:11:52,711
What was...
133
00:11:52,745 --> 00:11:55,278
Because they were
only $0.15, that's why.
134
00:11:55,311 --> 00:11:58,578
Panhandling, drinking
wine with winos.
135
00:12:03,844 --> 00:12:07,077
Both Jean-Michel and I are first
generation. Our parents were immigrants.
136
00:12:12,077 --> 00:12:20,444
If you've decided to live a sort of counterculture
subversive lifestyle, it's very difficult to go home.
137
00:12:20,478 --> 00:12:24,044
I was determined
not to go home again.
138
00:12:24,077 --> 00:12:27,144
But did you think, I
could be a bum forever?
139
00:12:27,177 --> 00:12:29,016
Yeah, I sort of did, yeah.
140
00:12:33,005 --> 00:12:35,417
I thought I was going
to be a bum forever.
141
00:12:39,044 --> 00:12:42,877
We were basically trying to
make it happen, trying to not just...
142
00:12:42,910 --> 00:12:49,810
and I feel awkward saying fame, because in this
era now, it's like, you don't really want to...
143
00:12:49,844 --> 00:12:50,977
who wants to be famous?
144
00:12:51,011 --> 00:12:53,311
It's so, like, that
shit is whack.
145
00:12:53,344 --> 00:12:57,810
But it was really very specifically
about making it happen, you know?
146
00:12:57,844 --> 00:12:59,244
And like, I knew just...
147
00:12:59,278 --> 00:13:00,645
he was gonna make it happen.
148
00:13:04,196 --> 00:13:07,720
I heard all these stories
of that you survived on the
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00:13:07,744 --> 00:13:11,745
streets from like, having
all these different girlfriends.
150
00:13:11,777 --> 00:13:14,645
- Is that true at all?
- Yeah, that was some of it, yeah.
151
00:13:14,678 --> 00:13:16,344
That they helped you out a lot.
152
00:13:16,378 --> 00:13:18,378
That you... you could
always stay somewhere?
153
00:13:18,411 --> 00:13:21,563
At least you had
places to stay doing that.
154
00:13:22,944 --> 00:13:26,910
That's some of it, yeah.
155
00:13:26,944 --> 00:13:30,044
I remember this one time
walking by an art opening.
156
00:13:30,077 --> 00:13:32,144
It was a Schnabel opening.
157
00:13:32,177 --> 00:13:34,278
And Julian was a big star.
158
00:13:34,311 --> 00:13:35,944
Darling of the art world.
159
00:13:35,977 --> 00:13:37,444
He was lionized in the press.
160
00:13:37,478 --> 00:13:39,777
He was the man at Mr. Chow's.
161
00:13:39,810 --> 00:13:40,877
And Jean...
162
00:13:40,910 --> 00:13:44,944
I'll never forget what Jean said. Jean
said, I'm gonna box with that guy one day.
163
00:13:44,977 --> 00:13:46,977
I'm gonna box him one day.
164
00:13:50,173 --> 00:13:56,189
He was blessed with astonishing
sophistication as a teenager.
165
00:13:56,511 --> 00:14:00,177
He understood exactly
where to position himself.
166
00:14:00,211 --> 00:14:04,730
At age 18, he was already
at the absolute epicenter
167
00:14:04,754 --> 00:14:08,910
of the most advanced
music, art in the world.
168
00:14:32,611 --> 00:14:35,335
TV Party in the past has
brought you some of the most
169
00:14:35,359 --> 00:14:37,977
significant commentators
on graffiti in New York.
170
00:14:38,011 --> 00:14:43,263
But tonight, we're lucky enough to have
with us, uh, probably the most language
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00:14:43,287 --> 00:14:48,134
orientated of all graffiti artists in
New York, SAMO and his associate.
172
00:14:48,155 --> 00:14:49,877
- SAMO.
- SAMO. Sorry.
173
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:51,857
It's Mr. SAMO. This is
my personal secretary.
174
00:14:51,877 --> 00:14:53,044
Sorry, Mr. SAMO.
175
00:14:53,077 --> 00:14:56,517
Do you write something different every
time, or do you write the... you know.
176
00:14:56,538 --> 00:14:59,244
I've written the same
thing before. Just...
177
00:14:59,278 --> 00:15:01,910
it all depends, you know,
like, how inspired I feel.
178
00:15:01,944 --> 00:15:04,044
And then he just
started coming around.
179
00:15:10,378 --> 00:15:13,810
He loved working the character
generator in the control room.
180
00:15:13,844 --> 00:15:18,378
He would sort of graffiti the screen
with kind of running commentary.
181
00:15:28,251 --> 00:15:34,193
Before Jean had started making the paintings,
Jean began to make those postcards.
182
00:15:42,244 --> 00:15:46,211
So he was just on the street selling
these cards, and he still had the mohawk.
183
00:15:46,244 --> 00:15:49,211
He was wearing these
paint splattered smocks.
184
00:15:49,244 --> 00:15:51,211
He was just like this spectacle.
185
00:15:51,244 --> 00:15:54,511
He walked into this restaurant
where Andy Warhol and Henry.
186
00:15:54,544 --> 00:15:57,544
Geldzahler were having lunch.
187
00:15:57,578 --> 00:16:02,511
Andy Warhol, he was like, just
a demigod or a god or whatever.
188
00:16:02,544 --> 00:16:04,411
He was our hero.
189
00:16:04,444 --> 00:16:05,810
He was our everything.
190
00:16:05,844 --> 00:16:11,544
He was just, like, a god, you know,
who we all were in New York for.
191
00:16:11,578 --> 00:16:14,316
So he went in and he
presented himself and he
192
00:16:14,340 --> 00:16:17,077
introduced himself and
offered these postcards.
193
00:16:17,111 --> 00:16:19,278
And Warhol bought two or three.
194
00:16:19,311 --> 00:16:20,511
I was like, what?
195
00:16:20,544 --> 00:16:21,711
I said, what happened?
196
00:16:21,745 --> 00:16:24,424
He was like, yeah, I just walked
up to him, man. And I was like, yeah.
197
00:16:24,444 --> 00:16:26,678
Well, what did Henry
Geldzahler say?
198
00:16:26,711 --> 00:16:28,077
He said it was young.
199
00:16:28,571 --> 00:16:29,704
I was like, really?
200
00:16:33,478 --> 00:16:37,411
He saw Andy as number one,
and he wanted to be number one.
201
00:16:37,444 --> 00:16:40,177
So it was a natural thing for
him to want to be around him.
202
00:16:40,211 --> 00:16:43,777
I'm sure he would have like, hung
out with Picasso, too, you know?
203
00:16:55,711 --> 00:16:58,278
I went out every night,
and I think he did too.
204
00:16:58,311 --> 00:17:00,910
We all kind of
went out together.
205
00:17:00,944 --> 00:17:03,055
To Jean-Michel's
credit, he wanted to be an
206
00:17:03,079 --> 00:17:05,645
artist, and he wanted
to be an artist of his time.
207
00:17:05,678 --> 00:17:07,959
And that's how artists were
sort of presenting themselves.
208
00:17:15,122 --> 00:17:20,405
Big thing about Jean was, you know, we were out
getting our groove on on the floor, dancing,
209
00:17:20,429 --> 00:17:25,654
getting drink tickets, you know, putting that
smoke in the air, you know what I'm saying?
210
00:17:25,679 --> 00:17:29,379
Like, it was definitely going
down in the major level.
211
00:17:30,196 --> 00:17:31,844
He was a darling on the scene.
212
00:17:31,877 --> 00:17:34,178
He was the prince of
the scene at the time.
213
00:17:34,203 --> 00:17:38,269
He had a really incredible way of dancing,
because it was just drop dead cool.
214
00:17:42,093 --> 00:17:43,526
The girls were gluing to him.
215
00:17:44,244 --> 00:17:46,211
Glue, glue, glue, glue, glue.
216
00:17:46,244 --> 00:17:48,645
He broke the heart
of a lot of girls.
217
00:17:52,993 --> 00:17:57,111
I met him at the Mudd
Club on the dance floor.
218
00:17:57,144 --> 00:18:01,211
He was kind of down and
out financially, and I'd seen his.
219
00:18:01,244 --> 00:18:02,611
SAMO drawings.
220
00:18:02,645 --> 00:18:06,211
So when I ran into him, I said
you should make art, you know?
221
00:18:06,244 --> 00:18:08,278
You have to, you know?
And I gave him some money.
222
00:18:08,311 --> 00:18:11,872
Go get some paper and go to
Canal Paint and make some things,
223
00:18:11,896 --> 00:18:15,278
and I'll sell them for you, and
you can make some money.
224
00:18:18,344 --> 00:18:20,959
Characteristic of
very good artists, it's a
225
00:18:20,984 --> 00:18:24,134
mature, strong hand that
can only be from them.
226
00:18:24,159 --> 00:18:29,292
And he had that even when
he was 18, 19 years old.
227
00:18:30,444 --> 00:18:31,678
Everybody believed in him.
228
00:18:31,711 --> 00:18:34,810
We all knew that
he was a brilliant kid.
229
00:18:34,844 --> 00:18:37,111
He was a star when he was broke.
230
00:18:40,177 --> 00:18:46,578
Elio Fiorucci had this fashion store on 59th
Street, and he loved the downtown scene.
231
00:18:46,611 --> 00:18:49,910
And one day, he said, you know,
it's so interesting what's going on here.
232
00:18:49,944 --> 00:18:51,877
You kids should
make a movie about it.
233
00:18:51,910 --> 00:18:54,249
And so we said,
that's a good idea.
234
00:18:58,622 --> 00:19:02,089
It was the story of, like, a
young artist who's struggling
235
00:19:02,114 --> 00:19:06,884
to get by in the cool and
scary world of Manhattan in '81.
236
00:19:08,211 --> 00:19:12,378
We decided to let him
live in our production office.
237
00:19:12,411 --> 00:19:15,177
That was a way of, like, making
sure that we could find him.
238
00:19:17,544 --> 00:19:20,089
We bought him the first
stretched canvas he ever
239
00:19:20,114 --> 00:19:23,314
had for the purpose
of the film, and one day,
240
00:19:23,461 --> 00:19:26,941
uh, we had the big
photography corner, and I said,
241
00:19:26,965 --> 00:19:30,375
oh, Jean-Michel, enough
of these street things.
242
00:19:31,011 --> 00:19:35,910
I teared a huge piece, and
I... we put it up, and he did it.
243
00:19:35,944 --> 00:19:38,177
I don't know how
many days it took him.
244
00:19:38,211 --> 00:19:39,544
It was very intricate.
245
00:19:43,765 --> 00:19:48,837
It was when I first saw him draw that I
knew he was gonna be famous, you know?
246
00:19:50,745 --> 00:19:55,211
He was working on "Downtown 81" at
the time, and he sold his first painting.
247
00:19:58,765 --> 00:20:01,468
Glenn O'Brien had
introduced him to to Deborah Harry
248
00:20:01,884 --> 00:20:04,586
and she bought
his painting for $200.
249
00:20:04,611 --> 00:20:07,011
And he was thrilled
to have $200.
250
00:20:07,044 --> 00:20:11,745
And he came in and asked me to
go for dinner, so we went to, um, a
251
00:20:11,769 --> 00:20:16,977
Chinese restaurant on 2nd Avenue,
and he said, order whatever you want.
252
00:20:17,011 --> 00:20:22,511
And, you know, the most expensive thing was
probably $10.00, but that was a really big deal.
253
00:20:27,043 --> 00:20:30,144
He moved in with me
very soon after we met.
254
00:20:30,177 --> 00:20:34,539
Not that I wanted him to,
but it just sort of happened.
255
00:20:37,144 --> 00:20:39,511
And I really wanted him
to sleep in my bedroom.
256
00:20:39,544 --> 00:20:40,810
He slept in the living room.
257
00:20:40,844 --> 00:20:44,387
It was very, um,
sort of innocent.
258
00:20:46,910 --> 00:20:51,144
I wanted him to start working to pay the
bills with me, because he was living with me.
259
00:20:51,177 --> 00:20:54,944
So we would get in
arguments about it.
260
00:20:54,977 --> 00:20:59,111
And eventually, he went to work
with a friend that was an electrician.
261
00:20:59,144 --> 00:21:02,711
I was very proud of him that
he was making this effort to work.
262
00:21:02,745 --> 00:21:10,420
And he, um, came home and
started to cry and said, I can't do this.
263
00:21:10,445 --> 00:21:14,744
I really want to help you with the rent,
but I can't be humiliated in this way.
264
00:21:14,990 --> 00:21:19,140
And we went to this rich
Park Avenue lady's apartment,
265
00:21:19,165 --> 00:21:24,292
and she was treating me
like a slave, and I can't do this.
266
00:21:24,777 --> 00:21:28,311
So it was... there was something
about it that was very moving to me.
267
00:21:28,344 --> 00:21:32,211
And, um, so we agreed that I
would work and he would paint.
268
00:21:39,206 --> 00:21:42,111
The Times Square show ended
up on the cover of The Village.
269
00:21:42,144 --> 00:21:44,544
Voice as the first radical
art show of the '80s.
270
00:21:50,142 --> 00:21:54,183
Anybody literally could have walked up and just said,
hey, I'm an artist. And they would let you hang work.
271
00:21:54,208 --> 00:21:56,193
There was over 100 artists.
272
00:21:56,530 --> 00:22:00,457
The Times Square show was
the first time that Jean-Michel
273
00:22:00,482 --> 00:22:04,668
participated in an
organized real art exhibition.
274
00:22:05,568 --> 00:22:09,134
I actually got Jean-Michel
and Keith in the show.
275
00:22:09,211 --> 00:22:12,544
I brought them along with me,
and they made a big impact.
276
00:22:22,020 --> 00:22:24,919
He painted in our
little apartment.
277
00:22:25,321 --> 00:22:31,553
We didn't have a lot of money, so he would
bring home foam rubber, tin, windows, doors.
278
00:22:31,578 --> 00:22:35,578
He would just find
things on the street.
279
00:22:35,611 --> 00:22:40,409
No, the first paintings I made were on
windows... on windows I found on the street.
280
00:22:40,430 --> 00:22:41,853
I used the window
shape as a frame.
281
00:22:41,874 --> 00:22:43,443
You know what I...
282
00:22:43,464 --> 00:22:46,344
just put the paint... the
painting on the glass part.
283
00:22:46,378 --> 00:22:49,344
And on doors like I
found on the street.
284
00:22:52,278 --> 00:22:54,524
Went up to the apartment
he shared with Suzanne.
285
00:22:54,544 --> 00:23:01,611
It was one of the most arresting,
stimulating artistic experiences I ever had.
286
00:23:01,645 --> 00:23:04,645
He was very
focused with his work.
287
00:23:04,678 --> 00:23:09,604
The refrigerator door had
this incredible painting on it.
288
00:23:11,457 --> 00:23:15,775
And then some amazing
paintings on windows, and all
289
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,278
these drawings strewn all
over the floor on typing paper.
290
00:23:19,311 --> 00:23:21,620
There would be 20
sheets of paper on the floor,
291
00:23:21,644 --> 00:23:23,853
all seemingly half
finished pieces of work.
292
00:23:23,877 --> 00:23:27,315
And he would jump from
one, walk across five,
293
00:23:27,339 --> 00:23:30,777
literally walk on them,
leaving sneaker prints.
294
00:23:30,810 --> 00:23:33,615
We used to make the joke
that you could date his work by
295
00:23:33,639 --> 00:23:36,444
the different sneakers that
he would wear over the years.
296
00:23:36,478 --> 00:23:41,877
There's no artist who kind of abused
his own work physically than Jean-Michel.
297
00:23:41,910 --> 00:23:44,942
He was somebody who
liked to have music on
298
00:23:44,966 --> 00:23:48,444
and the television and
the big stack of books.
299
00:23:48,478 --> 00:23:52,977
People talk about multitasking, but that
was part of the hard wiring of his brain.
300
00:23:56,777 --> 00:24:01,311
Following the Times Square
show, Diego wanted to do it his way.
301
00:24:01,344 --> 00:24:04,192
And so he put his own
show together, which was the
302
00:24:04,217 --> 00:24:07,869
New York New Wave show
at PS1, which was massive.
303
00:24:17,093 --> 00:24:18,713
I was still going with
Suzanne Mallouk at the
304
00:24:18,737 --> 00:24:20,653
time, and she was about
to throw me out any minute.
305
00:24:20,674 --> 00:24:26,047
And then Diego came through with
this show, which was just great, you know.
306
00:24:26,208 --> 00:24:28,375
'81 was the PS1 show.
307
00:24:28,745 --> 00:24:34,311
I was just tired of seeing white walls with
white people with white wine, you know.
308
00:24:34,344 --> 00:24:37,366
The opening for that show
was the equivalent of like a
309
00:24:37,390 --> 00:24:40,411
blockbuster exhibit at the
Metropolitan or the Modern.
310
00:24:40,444 --> 00:24:46,111
People were literally on lined down
the block four deep to get into the show.
311
00:24:46,144 --> 00:24:47,311
It was just packed.
312
00:25:04,977 --> 00:25:07,196
Getting people in the
art world to pay attention
313
00:25:07,220 --> 00:25:09,344
to his work wasn't
that hard, I'll tell you.
314
00:25:09,378 --> 00:25:13,678
I mean, as soon as I started showing
his work to anyone, they... they loved it.
315
00:25:42,964 --> 00:25:49,339
After PS1, Jean's star was at the top of the
constellation of the new emerging artists.
316
00:26:19,544 --> 00:26:23,115
Annina Nosei connects
with him and gives him the
317
00:26:23,139 --> 00:26:27,244
basement of her gallery
on Prince Street as a studio.
318
00:26:27,278 --> 00:26:30,463
And it was a basement, but
it was a nice basement with
319
00:26:30,487 --> 00:26:34,228
a skylight and gallery
assistants fawning over him.
320
00:27:43,111 --> 00:27:46,671
This is a very crucial period for
Jean-Michel, because this is the
321
00:27:46,696 --> 00:27:52,327
transition period from working on
the street to working in a real studio.
322
00:27:53,745 --> 00:27:57,245
Very quickly thereafter, he got
his first show at Annina Nosei.
323
00:28:11,144 --> 00:28:15,910
His first real public
exhibition is at Annina Nosei.
324
00:28:15,944 --> 00:28:17,177
Which was a hit.
325
00:28:22,547 --> 00:28:26,556
And he made
$200,000, maybe more.
326
00:28:26,581 --> 00:28:30,317
Everything sold in one night.
327
00:28:32,944 --> 00:28:37,011
One day there was a knock at
the door, and Jean-Michel is naked.
328
00:28:37,325 --> 00:28:41,244
And he got up and answered the door,
stark naked, and it was Rene Ricard.
329
00:28:41,278 --> 00:28:45,185
And he was coming to
interview him for Art Form.
330
00:28:46,378 --> 00:28:50,344
My first Art Form cover story
was about Julian Schnabel.
331
00:28:50,378 --> 00:28:54,921
And I knew that the next
person I wrote about had to be
332
00:28:54,945 --> 00:28:59,910
totally unknown, had to be
terribly young, very ambitious.
333
00:29:00,332 --> 00:29:04,531
I wanted to latch on to a
career that I could watch and
334
00:29:04,555 --> 00:29:09,378
write about for a long time,
like I had with Julian Schnabel.
335
00:29:09,411 --> 00:29:13,583
That piece, The Radiant
Child, was very involved
336
00:29:13,607 --> 00:29:16,567
in helping Jean-Michel
in his early career.
337
00:29:17,067 --> 00:29:18,634
There was an
article in Art Form.
338
00:29:18,659 --> 00:29:20,359
- Rene Ricard.
- Rene Ricard.
339
00:29:20,384 --> 00:29:23,010
The second I saw his
work, I got very excited.
340
00:29:24,764 --> 00:29:28,130
He actually came up to talk about
the painting that we had purchased.
341
00:29:28,352 --> 00:29:31,189
He drew our attention
to the snake in the corner.
342
00:29:31,278 --> 00:29:34,478
It as very well done.
343
00:29:34,511 --> 00:29:38,344
And he was very,
very proud of it.
344
00:29:38,378 --> 00:29:41,977
Do you ever comply with the
requests to describe your work?
345
00:29:42,698 --> 00:29:45,032
I never know how to really
describe it except maybe,
346
00:29:45,056 --> 00:29:47,197
I don't know. I don't know
how to describe my work.
347
00:29:47,222 --> 00:29:51,255
Do you feel that's important to you,
though, not to be able to describe it?
348
00:29:51,732 --> 00:29:55,086
It's I guess asking so how
does your horn sound, you know?
349
00:29:55,111 --> 00:29:56,411
I mean, you don't really...
350
00:29:56,444 --> 00:30:00,712
I don't think he could really tell
you, you know, why he played, you
351
00:30:00,736 --> 00:30:05,578
know... why he plays this at this
point in the music, or, you know, just...
352
00:30:05,611 --> 00:30:09,433
you're sort of on automatic,
you know, most of the time.
353
00:30:11,044 --> 00:30:15,977
Has anybody ever written anything about
your work that you think is on the ball?
354
00:30:16,011 --> 00:30:19,000
Probably Robert Farris Thompson
I thought wrote the best thing.
355
00:30:19,021 --> 00:30:23,411
The guy that wrote "Flash of the Spirit," which is
probably the best book I ever read on African art.
356
00:30:23,444 --> 00:30:24,611
One of the best.
357
00:30:31,211 --> 00:30:34,991
He had this unique
ability to access almost
358
00:30:35,016 --> 00:30:37,869
everything that was in
his mind and memory bank,
359
00:30:37,893 --> 00:30:41,174
channel it through his
body, and put it right
360
00:30:41,198 --> 00:30:44,478
there on that rectangle
of campus or paper.
361
00:31:10,007 --> 00:31:11,007
Jean...
362
00:31:11,032 --> 00:31:15,090
I don't know how he got his
knowledge, but he knew so much.
363
00:31:38,278 --> 00:31:40,633
So what's the first artist
work that you remember
364
00:31:40,657 --> 00:31:43,011
seeing that left a really
strong impression on you?
365
00:31:43,044 --> 00:31:47,344
Probably seeing the "Guernica" was probably
my favorite thing when I was a kid.
366
00:31:55,544 --> 00:31:58,299
I remember my mother
drawing stuff out of the Bible like
367
00:31:58,323 --> 00:32:00,977
Samson breaking the
temple down and stuff like this.
368
00:32:01,011 --> 00:32:02,077
Was she a good artist?
369
00:32:02,111 --> 00:32:03,278
Pretty good.
370
00:32:08,044 --> 00:32:10,910
His father was fairly
affluent, middle class.
371
00:32:10,944 --> 00:32:12,144
An accountant.
372
00:32:12,177 --> 00:32:15,244
He dressed in like blue
blazers with brass buttons.
373
00:32:26,511 --> 00:32:28,411
They lived on Pacific Street.
374
00:32:28,444 --> 00:32:30,378
They owned the whole building.
375
00:32:30,411 --> 00:32:32,544
So then you started doing
your own little drawings?
376
00:32:32,578 --> 00:32:35,348
I thought I wanted to be a
cartoonist when I was younger, and
377
00:32:35,372 --> 00:32:38,373
then I changed to painting when
I was about, you know, 15 or so.
378
00:32:40,844 --> 00:32:43,311
So you're like the black
sheep of the family?
379
00:32:43,344 --> 00:32:44,944
Well, I was until I
started doing well.
380
00:32:50,961 --> 00:32:53,795
One of the interesting
things about this work is the
381
00:32:53,819 --> 00:32:56,653
way it shoots references
to other artists he admired.
382
00:32:56,678 --> 00:32:59,544
The work is full of references
to Leonardo da Vinci.
383
00:32:59,578 --> 00:33:00,745
He wasn't unambitious.
384
00:33:00,844 --> 00:33:03,077
Nobody could accuse
Basquiat of that.
385
00:33:19,045 --> 00:33:25,279
He's talking to the great history of painting that
came before him, and he's very much aware of it.
386
00:33:25,711 --> 00:33:27,544
And that's the
context of his work.
387
00:33:27,578 --> 00:33:28,877
He's talking to Twombly.
388
00:33:28,910 --> 00:33:30,044
He's talking to de Kooning.
389
00:33:30,077 --> 00:33:31,777
He's talking to Pollock.
390
00:33:35,803 --> 00:33:38,970
I always think of him as
a great artist a long time.
391
00:33:38,995 --> 00:33:43,828
I put him in the highest place
like Van Gogh, like Picasso.
392
00:33:43,877 --> 00:33:48,910
There's also the important fact that he's not
limiting himself to visual artists as mentors.
393
00:34:11,578 --> 00:34:12,745
What books do you like?
394
00:34:12,777 --> 00:34:18,544
Major ones that, you know, had
facts in them or, I guess, Mark Twain.
395
00:34:18,578 --> 00:34:20,111
I like Mark Twain books a lot.
396
00:34:20,144 --> 00:34:23,977
You were reading William Burroughs
when you were out here the last time.
397
00:34:24,011 --> 00:34:25,890
I was gonna say Burroughs,
but I thought I'd be...
398
00:34:25,910 --> 00:34:27,877
I'd sound too young,
because everybody reads.
399
00:34:27,910 --> 00:34:29,077
Burroughs all the time.
400
00:34:29,111 --> 00:34:31,278
But he's my favorite
living author, definitely.
401
00:34:32,077 --> 00:34:38,177
The work owes a lot to the influence
of William Burroughs and John Giorno.
402
00:34:38,595 --> 00:34:40,711
That school of poetry.
403
00:34:40,745 --> 00:34:43,564
Jean-Michel adored William.
I mean, he was a great fan.
404
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:48,476
The Burroughs cut up technique
of slicing up, of collaging things
405
00:34:48,500 --> 00:34:53,386
was a very important part of the
structure of Jean-Michel's work.
406
00:34:53,411 --> 00:34:56,177
William Burroughs he
got from the surrealists.
407
00:34:56,211 --> 00:35:00,877
This idea of cutting up like a page of your
own text, written on a typewriter paper.
408
00:35:00,910 --> 00:35:04,311
You'd cut it in four of rive
places and then rearrange them.
409
00:35:04,344 --> 00:35:07,810
And when you read across,
and amazing images arise.
410
00:35:07,844 --> 00:35:11,694
And sort of this is another concept
of how you could perceive it of wisdom
411
00:35:11,718 --> 00:35:15,568
arising, because a lot of it is gibberish,
you know, when you're reading.
412
00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:20,044
But then all of a sudden a clear line goes
across, and that's profoundly profound.
413
00:35:21,144 --> 00:35:24,011
So that's the
essence of the cut up.
414
00:35:24,044 --> 00:35:29,333
And then the influence of
John Cage, vanguard jazz, Miles
415
00:35:29,357 --> 00:35:34,645
Davis, Coltrane, that all of
these sounds are interesting.
416
00:35:34,678 --> 00:35:38,666
He's putting in Charlie Parker
and Miles Davis and the whole
417
00:35:38,690 --> 00:35:42,678
roster of jazz heroes who he
can assimilate into his pantheon.
418
00:35:42,711 --> 00:35:44,478
What music do you like?
419
00:35:44,511 --> 00:35:48,678
Bebop is my favorite music,
but I don't listen to it all the time.
420
00:35:48,711 --> 00:35:52,877
I listen... I listen to everything, but
I'd have to say bebop is my favorite.
421
00:35:52,910 --> 00:35:56,977
He had a bebop aesthetic in terms
of what he put visually on the page.
422
00:35:58,211 --> 00:36:01,699
Bebop broke down melody and it
broke down harmonies in ways that hadn't
423
00:36:01,723 --> 00:36:05,991
been done before, thus creating
another vocabulary for how to play jazz.
424
00:36:12,645 --> 00:36:16,511
His collage technique was to
take things and blow them up.
425
00:36:16,544 --> 00:36:21,645
He had the expression boom for real, an
explosion, and then you end up with fragments.
426
00:36:21,678 --> 00:36:24,995
Rather than the cubist or
post cubist way of building
427
00:36:25,019 --> 00:36:28,144
sections, patching things
together or quiltwork.
428
00:36:28,177 --> 00:36:30,645
Jean-Michel's work
was not about a quilt.
429
00:36:30,678 --> 00:36:35,944
It was about a kind of galaxy of
reality that's been, again, exploded.
430
00:36:35,977 --> 00:36:37,111
So everything's equal.
431
00:36:55,044 --> 00:36:58,777
It was a big loft, and
it was pretty fancy.
432
00:36:58,810 --> 00:37:03,324
I was going over there three, four nights a week, and there
was a lot of other people that were always coming over.
433
00:37:03,344 --> 00:37:05,511
It was really an
incredible scene.
434
00:37:05,544 --> 00:37:12,211
People who knew Jean-Michel saw him hanging
out, socially active, late into the night.
435
00:37:12,244 --> 00:37:14,745
So the question is,
when did he do the work?
436
00:37:14,777 --> 00:37:19,344
There is an astonishing
amount of work.
437
00:37:19,378 --> 00:37:23,944
He had an incredible
work ethic, incredible focus.
438
00:37:23,977 --> 00:37:27,844
If people were over,
he didn't just sit and visit.
439
00:37:27,877 --> 00:37:32,286
He was constantly painting,
constantly getting inspiration from
440
00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:37,503
something someone had just said or
something that was on the television.
441
00:37:38,331 --> 00:37:41,478
I don't know. I came the first day,
and I basically never left for months.
442
00:37:41,511 --> 00:37:43,645
And I would go home, and
he would call up and ask me
443
00:37:43,669 --> 00:37:45,802
to come back, because he
wanted to get to work again.
444
00:37:45,823 --> 00:37:47,611
So basically it was 24 hours.
445
00:37:47,645 --> 00:37:51,411
It was paintings that he came
up with his assistant Steve.
446
00:37:51,444 --> 00:37:56,799
Torton, where the... the corners were
sticks sticking out like some person
447
00:37:56,823 --> 00:38:02,177
wrapped these things up and just
make it quickly into a framed canvas or...
448
00:38:02,211 --> 00:38:04,876
Basically, he showed me
a pile of wood... molding
449
00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:08,011
wood, like the little curly
moldings, very flimsy wood.
450
00:38:08,044 --> 00:38:10,905
A window chain, carpet
tacks, canvas, and he
451
00:38:10,929 --> 00:38:14,124
asked me if I could
make a stretcher out of it.
452
00:38:14,144 --> 00:38:17,910
So that is basically
what gave birth to those.
453
00:38:17,944 --> 00:38:19,810
Terrific set of paintings.
454
00:38:19,844 --> 00:38:24,544
I mean, we bought a couple, but
we should've bought every single one.
455
00:38:24,578 --> 00:38:26,964
When I moved into the
Crosby Street loft, for a
456
00:38:26,988 --> 00:38:29,844
while, collectors would
come over to look at the work.
457
00:38:29,877 --> 00:38:34,541
And if he didn't like them... you
know, if somebody said I want a painting
458
00:38:34,565 --> 00:38:39,678
with shades of red in it to match my
couch, he would become absolutely furious.
459
00:38:39,711 --> 00:38:41,011
He would throw them out.
460
00:38:41,044 --> 00:38:46,316
He would often pour food on
their heads from outside the window
461
00:38:46,340 --> 00:38:51,063
like cereal or water or milk out
the window as they were leaving.
462
00:38:51,184 --> 00:38:54,620
Jean-Michel was famously
independent of mind.
463
00:38:54,645 --> 00:38:58,444
No one ever told Jean-Michel
Basquiat what to do and what not to do.
464
00:38:58,478 --> 00:39:01,444
He did whatever he wanted to do.
465
00:39:01,478 --> 00:39:05,424
It turned our world into a sports... like a
tennis thing, where you had your ranking.
466
00:39:05,444 --> 00:39:07,618
You know, boxing. All
those metaphors with sports.
467
00:39:07,639 --> 00:39:09,810
He had no qualms
about being ambitious.
468
00:39:09,844 --> 00:39:13,332
He was very anxious to be number
one, and he was very concerned
469
00:39:13,356 --> 00:39:16,844
that when he wasn't number one,
he was on his way up the ladder.
470
00:39:16,869 --> 00:39:21,542
There was a young guy who was painting, and I should see
him, and he knew, you know, different people that I knew.
471
00:39:21,567 --> 00:39:25,134
So I went down,
and... and I liked him.
472
00:39:25,578 --> 00:39:29,011
And at the same time,
he was very competitive.
473
00:39:29,044 --> 00:39:32,259
One day at Mr. Chow, he
said something to me, because
474
00:39:32,283 --> 00:39:35,311
he always talked about
us having a boxing match.
475
00:39:35,344 --> 00:39:37,749
I said, you know, you're
gonna get the boxing match
476
00:39:37,773 --> 00:39:40,177
that you've been asking
for if you don't cool it.
477
00:39:55,535 --> 00:40:01,301
Which is a fabulous way to start a... you
know, a friendship and a business relationship.
478
00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:04,730
And it was one of the... you know,
as an art dealer, I gotta say it was
479
00:40:04,755 --> 00:40:08,176
one of the most exciting things that
have happened in my business career.
480
00:40:10,311 --> 00:40:14,777
I was in the waiting area at
Spago's on Sunset waiting to...
481
00:40:14,810 --> 00:40:17,478
to get in at like
10:00 at night.
482
00:40:17,511 --> 00:40:23,977
And Jean-Michel walked in with Rammellzee
and Fab 5 Freddy, all behind Larry Gagosian.
483
00:40:24,011 --> 00:40:27,311
And the restaurant came
to a complete silence.
484
00:40:27,344 --> 00:40:35,444
I mean, these three young black men, all more
handsome than the next, and just, you know, who...
485
00:40:35,478 --> 00:40:40,252
I don't know if people thought that they
were in front of the newest Hollywood stars
486
00:40:40,276 --> 00:40:44,877
or were about to get robbed, but at the
restaurant just came to a dead silence.
487
00:40:44,910 --> 00:40:46,511
It was fantastic.
488
00:40:46,544 --> 00:40:50,675
First time I met Jean-Michel Basquiat
is I was working in an art gallery while
489
00:40:50,699 --> 00:40:54,777
I was going to film school, and he
came in while we were having an opening.
490
00:40:54,810 --> 00:41:00,378
And he had a cassette with him, and
he asked me if I had any way to play it.
491
00:41:00,411 --> 00:41:03,596
I took him to the back room,
and I had a boombox back there.
492
00:41:03,621 --> 00:41:07,011
And in like five minutes, he
turned the back office into a
493
00:41:07,044 --> 00:41:08,444
VIP dance area.
494
00:41:16,011 --> 00:41:18,594
It was just a crazy opening.
495
00:41:18,703 --> 00:41:19,765
Everybody came.
496
00:41:19,965 --> 00:41:22,553
Like, by that time, the
word had kind of spread.
497
00:41:22,578 --> 00:41:25,745
This guy was making, you know,
incredibly exciting, powerful work.
498
00:41:25,777 --> 00:41:27,678
20 years old or whatever.
499
00:41:27,711 --> 00:41:29,511
I went to the show at Gagosian.
500
00:41:29,544 --> 00:41:31,678
Gallery, and it was huge.
501
00:41:31,711 --> 00:41:35,810
We were utterly caught off guard by
the energy and the content of the work.
502
00:41:35,844 --> 00:41:36,977
He was a phenomenon.
503
00:41:48,177 --> 00:41:53,344
It was extremely well received by
players in LA, the Hollywood crew.
504
00:41:53,378 --> 00:41:56,977
My recollection was they were all
basically sold by the time of the opening.
505
00:42:00,992 --> 00:42:04,092
He left Annina Nosei
after just a year.
506
00:42:04,344 --> 00:42:06,611
He called me up and I said,
I'll introduce you to Bruno.
507
00:42:06,645 --> 00:42:10,198
Bischofberger, who had
shown an interest to me before.
508
00:43:34,378 --> 00:43:37,037
Things started to change
very quickly thereafter.
509
00:43:37,062 --> 00:43:39,295
He was rapidly
becoming a millionaire.
510
00:43:43,877 --> 00:43:45,444
He was a guest at the time.
511
00:43:45,469 --> 00:43:48,374
We would go out to
dinner, we'd go back to the
512
00:43:48,407 --> 00:43:51,311
studio, and he's in this
expensive Armani suit.
513
00:43:51,344 --> 00:43:54,727
He sees some painting,
and he feels compelled to
514
00:43:54,751 --> 00:43:58,194
change it, and he's painting
there in his Armani suit.
515
00:43:59,151 --> 00:44:01,417
He was in a loft
on Crosby Street.
516
00:44:01,668 --> 00:44:03,777
There would be like piles
of money all over the place.
517
00:44:03,810 --> 00:44:07,311
He was very young, and he
had never had this much money.
518
00:44:07,344 --> 00:44:10,777
And I... I think it was
very awkward for him.
519
00:44:11,127 --> 00:44:12,938
Do you spend it?
Do you save it?
520
00:44:12,963 --> 00:44:16,324
He had bought two new
color televisions and a TAC
521
00:44:16,348 --> 00:44:20,130
recording machine, and he
didn't have a bank account.
522
00:44:20,411 --> 00:44:25,109
He would often hide the money around the
house, so when I would be cleaning up, I would
523
00:44:25,133 --> 00:44:29,777
find thousands of dollars under the cushions
of the couch or in the pages of a book.
524
00:44:29,810 --> 00:44:32,578
That's the way he was
living, and he was living high.
525
00:44:32,611 --> 00:44:34,395
And whenever I would
go over to visit, there
526
00:44:34,419 --> 00:44:36,411
was always 20 people
hanging around over there.
527
00:44:36,444 --> 00:44:38,044
They were smoking pot.
528
00:44:38,077 --> 00:44:41,711
There were tons of bottles
of very expensive wine.
529
00:44:41,745 --> 00:44:44,054
Gourmet, gourmet,
gourmet delights in the
530
00:44:44,078 --> 00:44:46,910
refrigerator all the time
that just go to waste.
531
00:44:46,944 --> 00:44:49,777
He was able to pay
for the party for a while.
532
00:44:49,810 --> 00:44:54,378
But that money will kill you if you
don't know to deal with it, you know?
533
00:44:54,411 --> 00:44:56,742
I was in charge of the
production, making sure the right
534
00:44:56,766 --> 00:44:59,311
food was served to the right
people and the limo was there.
535
00:44:59,344 --> 00:45:01,645
Entertaining the
buyers, that was my job.
536
00:45:01,678 --> 00:45:05,912
To produce his party.
And that was a party.
537
00:45:05,933 --> 00:45:08,556
So what was your
first reaction when you
538
00:45:08,580 --> 00:45:11,810
started selling work and
making a little money?
539
00:45:11,844 --> 00:45:14,011
I don't know.
540
00:45:14,044 --> 00:45:17,578
Overconfidence,
super confidence.
541
00:45:18,308 --> 00:45:23,411
I was just happy that I was able to stick it out and then, you
know, and then get things I wanted, you know? Like, after...
542
00:45:26,678 --> 00:45:29,040
I felt like I... like I was
right, you know what I mean?
543
00:45:30,478 --> 00:45:32,910
The first really major
press about Jean-Michel
544
00:45:32,934 --> 00:45:36,015
was a story in the New
York Times Magazine.
545
00:45:42,877 --> 00:45:48,244
For a young African American
fine artist, it was incredible.
546
00:45:48,278 --> 00:45:51,511
It was literally
rock star status.
547
00:45:51,544 --> 00:45:54,977
There's this incredible
photograph of him on the cover.
548
00:45:55,011 --> 00:45:58,318
You know, that's really about
Jean-Michel as a person, as a phenomenon.
549
00:45:58,343 --> 00:46:02,509
And so he's propelled into
the bigger world of culture.
550
00:46:03,478 --> 00:46:06,444
Jean-Michel become
gigantic celebrity.
551
00:46:06,478 --> 00:46:14,044
Famous, wealthy, hanging out with celebrities,
being praised, lavish gifts and money.
552
00:46:14,069 --> 00:46:15,950
Everybody wanted a piece of him.
553
00:46:17,877 --> 00:46:20,944
It seems to me of all the
painters who've risen, you're
554
00:46:20,968 --> 00:46:24,378
the one who gets singled out
as this kind of a personality.
555
00:46:24,411 --> 00:46:25,991
But at the same
time, I sort of enjoy...
556
00:46:26,011 --> 00:46:28,448
I enjoy the... I enjoy that they
think I'm a bad boy, like a threat.
557
00:46:28,473 --> 00:46:29,940
Yeah.
558
00:46:30,478 --> 00:46:34,077
The whole bevy
came into the picture.
559
00:46:34,111 --> 00:46:37,649
And I remember saying to him,
I want you to understand what
560
00:46:37,673 --> 00:46:41,211
it feels like to be famous, so
go and do what you have to do.
561
00:46:41,244 --> 00:46:44,611
So it was very hard
for me, very hard.
562
00:46:44,645 --> 00:46:48,476
He used to often call me Venus in
the paintings, and when he was having
563
00:46:48,501 --> 00:46:52,972
an affair with Madonna, he painted
a painting of me beating up Madonna.
564
00:46:54,265 --> 00:46:56,977
We did get in a
fight at the Roxy.
565
00:46:57,386 --> 00:46:58,552
I'm embarrassed of that.
566
00:47:00,625 --> 00:47:02,649
He was an intense
center of a cult.
567
00:47:02,674 --> 00:47:05,468
He was a cult figure
of huge proportions.
568
00:47:08,044 --> 00:47:12,044
Nobody knows what it's like if
you're two painters in that situation.
569
00:47:12,077 --> 00:47:14,244
Nobody else was in
that situation with him.
570
00:47:14,278 --> 00:47:16,296
They had a different
kind of... you know,
571
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,745
whether it was Fab 5
Freddy or all different...
572
00:47:18,777 --> 00:47:21,199
they had a different kind
of... you know, I wasn't
573
00:47:21,223 --> 00:47:23,645
his peer in that, since I
was an older guy to him.
574
00:47:23,678 --> 00:47:25,478
And he always wanted
to know what I thought.
575
00:47:25,511 --> 00:47:27,011
So the reason why
I made the movie...
576
00:47:27,044 --> 00:47:28,729
I wanted to tell
him what I thought.
577
00:47:28,754 --> 00:47:30,455
I thought I owed it to him.
578
00:47:30,711 --> 00:47:32,444
$10.00 a piece. $10.00.
579
00:47:32,478 --> 00:47:35,378
Oh, gee. Didn't work
very much on these.
580
00:47:35,411 --> 00:47:37,777
I can give you like $5.00.
581
00:47:38,013 --> 00:47:39,614
Bruno, can I borrow some money?
582
00:48:22,602 --> 00:48:26,065
Andy Warhol, like most people,
was very seduced and enamored
583
00:48:26,089 --> 00:48:29,435
by Jean-Michel, and I think
probably had a crush on him.
584
00:48:29,844 --> 00:48:33,144
It was such a big thing for Jean
to become that close with Andy.
585
00:48:33,177 --> 00:48:34,511
But he was the
master of the game.
586
00:48:34,544 --> 00:48:39,011
It's great to be that tight with somebody
that we all looked up to in that way.
587
00:48:43,411 --> 00:48:44,810
Are we rolling?
588
00:48:44,844 --> 00:48:47,344
We're rolling?
589
00:48:47,378 --> 00:48:50,478
Oh, and this is my best...
590
00:48:50,511 --> 00:48:52,935
I mean, no, not the
richest artist in the world,
591
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,032
Jean-Michel. Jean-Michel,
what's your last name?
592
00:48:57,063 --> 00:48:58,479
What's your last
name, sweetheart?
593
00:48:58,504 --> 00:49:00,382
Basquiat.
594
00:49:00,953 --> 00:49:04,586
Jean-Michel wanted to be
an artist in the great galleries.
595
00:49:04,611 --> 00:49:07,112
Mary Boone, Leo Castelli.
596
00:49:07,402 --> 00:49:12,202
But he was not an artist that
was embraced by the art world.
597
00:49:12,694 --> 00:49:18,424
You know, he was considered kind of an
artist that could be on the cover of the New
598
00:49:18,448 --> 00:49:24,177
York Times Magazine section, because there
was a lot of underground feel to the work.
599
00:49:24,211 --> 00:49:29,066
But I think there were still a lot
of people in our world who didn't
600
00:49:29,090 --> 00:49:33,944
put him on the same level as
Schnabel and Salle and people like that.
601
00:49:33,977 --> 00:49:37,789
I guess he saw Julian Schnabel,
and I think they all had big
602
00:49:37,813 --> 00:49:43,022
shows at the Whitney, and he
didn't have that kind of recognition.
603
00:50:07,645 --> 00:50:12,745
The kind of art that was
esteemed in the mid-1970s...
604
00:50:12,777 --> 00:50:14,578
minimalism, conceptualism...
605
00:50:14,611 --> 00:50:19,044
didn't really allow
for much innovation.
606
00:50:19,391 --> 00:50:24,934
If you just kept pushing minimal painting and
sculpture, you ended up with something academic.
607
00:50:27,032 --> 00:50:30,444
The art was mostly minimal when I came up,
and it... it sort of confused me a little bit.
608
00:50:30,469 --> 00:50:32,951
I thought it divided
people a little bit.
609
00:50:33,944 --> 00:50:36,378
It alienated most... most
people from art, you know?
610
00:50:36,411 --> 00:50:38,056
Uh-huh.
611
00:50:39,077 --> 00:50:42,349
He was really a pioneer in
neo-expressionism, and so he
612
00:50:42,373 --> 00:50:45,645
was breaking boundaries
just by the nature of the work.
613
00:50:45,678 --> 00:50:48,444
I think people really
misunderstood.
614
00:50:48,469 --> 00:50:52,195
At one point, he did a
drawing as big as this painting
615
00:50:52,219 --> 00:50:56,286
here, and he wanted it to
go to a New York museum.
616
00:50:56,311 --> 00:50:58,312
I said, OK, I'll donate it.
617
00:50:58,337 --> 00:51:01,708
We offered it to MOMA, and
the Museum of Modern Art
618
00:51:01,732 --> 00:51:05,103
came back and said, well,
he isn't worth the space.
619
00:51:05,278 --> 00:51:10,131
And then we tried the Whitney,
and they'd rejected it also.
620
00:51:13,260 --> 00:51:17,266
When you first see brand
new work, chances are if
621
00:51:17,291 --> 00:51:21,540
it's really significant,
it will be uncomfortable
622
00:51:21,565 --> 00:51:25,819
to somebody like myself,
because I am so immersed
623
00:51:25,843 --> 00:51:29,652
in what painting up
until now looked like.
624
00:51:30,044 --> 00:51:35,500
And with Basquiat, many art professionals
had skepticism about what he was doing
625
00:51:35,524 --> 00:51:40,910
because the paintings didn't necessarily
fit their idea of a museum painting.
626
00:51:40,944 --> 00:51:43,164
And yet, of course,
that's exactly what's
627
00:51:43,188 --> 00:51:46,077
necessary in order to
create the art of the future.
628
00:51:50,910 --> 00:51:52,150
How do you... how do you work?
629
00:51:52,177 --> 00:51:55,670
Do you just start with a blank
canvas and just start painting?
630
00:51:55,691 --> 00:51:59,235
I usually put a lot down on it,
and then... then I take a lot away.
631
00:51:59,256 --> 00:52:02,152
And then I put some more down,
and I take some more away, you know?
632
00:52:02,173 --> 00:52:04,258
So it's like a constant
editing process, usually.
633
00:52:04,278 --> 00:52:06,877
What... what do people like
in your work that you are...
634
00:52:06,910 --> 00:52:08,144
that you...
635
00:52:08,177 --> 00:52:10,011
Got me.
636
00:52:10,044 --> 00:52:15,378
There's something very direct about
Jean-Michel's work that appeals to everyone.
637
00:52:15,411 --> 00:52:19,344
It doesn't just appeal to the intellectual,
but it does appeal to the intellectual.
638
00:52:28,777 --> 00:52:32,930
He appealed to a lot of people
who didn't have a great knowledge
639
00:52:32,954 --> 00:52:36,777
of art history, but just
looked at the work and liked it.
640
00:52:36,810 --> 00:52:37,877
He wasn't schooled.
641
00:52:37,910 --> 00:52:40,511
It was never
something calculated.
642
00:52:40,544 --> 00:52:43,515
That's not to say that he didn't
look very closely at what he was
643
00:52:43,539 --> 00:52:46,510
doing, but it wasn't something
that he was following some pattern.
644
00:52:46,531 --> 00:52:48,659
It was an instinct. He
had incredible instinct.
645
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:52,944
You know, writing the word tar
five times, crossing it out four times.
646
00:52:52,977 --> 00:52:54,844
He was really a once
in a generation talent.
647
00:53:02,877 --> 00:53:08,389
And he had a way of making words pictorial
and making them part of a picture.
648
00:53:22,117 --> 00:53:26,184
Anybody who has eyes, they can
see that he's channeling his inner child.
649
00:53:26,311 --> 00:53:29,674
What's your... what's your earliest,
most vivid childhood memory?
650
00:53:32,969 --> 00:53:34,977
Probably getting
hit by a car, I guess.
651
00:53:35,599 --> 00:53:36,611
How did that happen?
652
00:53:36,645 --> 00:53:38,011
I was playing in the street.
653
00:53:38,044 --> 00:53:39,244
How old were you?
654
00:53:39,278 --> 00:53:41,910
I was seven. Seven
or eight years old.
655
00:53:41,944 --> 00:53:44,227
And were you... what were
you thinking when it happened?
656
00:53:44,248 --> 00:53:47,077
Did you think, this is it?
657
00:53:47,111 --> 00:53:48,769
It seemed very
dreamlike, seeing the car.
658
00:53:48,790 --> 00:53:53,102
I mean, it was just like in the movies,
when they slow it down, you know?
659
00:53:53,123 --> 00:53:55,646
When... when a car is coming
at you, it was just like that.
660
00:53:56,097 --> 00:53:59,910
And did they like, take you to
the hospital and the whole thing?
661
00:53:59,944 --> 00:54:01,642
Yeah, yeah. I had
operations and stuff.
662
00:54:01,663 --> 00:54:02,830
The whole business.
663
00:54:18,278 --> 00:54:21,810
Like certain things that happen to you
in psychology, you're arrested in time.
664
00:54:21,844 --> 00:54:28,611
And he consciously and intentionally took
that idea as a painter and ran with it.
665
00:54:28,645 --> 00:54:30,711
I'm going to
return to that time.
666
00:54:30,745 --> 00:54:34,478
I'm gonna hold my instrument
in a way that a child would.
667
00:54:34,511 --> 00:54:37,611
I'm going to draw
the way a child does.
668
00:54:54,444 --> 00:54:58,810
He was also the most
advanced contemporary mind.
669
00:54:58,844 --> 00:54:59,977
He was both creatures.
670
00:55:05,144 --> 00:55:09,714
So I understand now that
you hobnob with the hobnobs.
671
00:55:11,011 --> 00:55:15,296
And you go to this club
called Area. Is that true?
672
00:55:15,321 --> 00:55:16,144
Yeah, yeah.
673
00:55:16,177 --> 00:55:18,645
When you get to Area,
there's a lot of people outside.
674
00:55:18,678 --> 00:55:20,711
It's a disco. It's a gallery.
675
00:55:20,745 --> 00:55:23,344
And then there's a lot of
pretty people there. It's big.
676
00:55:23,378 --> 00:55:25,077
It's a big, big, big
place, and it's...
677
00:55:25,111 --> 00:55:26,544
it's hard to get in.
678
00:55:26,578 --> 00:55:28,977
But I never had a
hard time getting in.
679
00:55:29,011 --> 00:55:31,411
But... but I've heard
it was hard to get in.
680
00:55:31,444 --> 00:55:36,805
I noticed quite a bit of a change in Jean
when he really started hanging out with Andy.
681
00:55:41,044 --> 00:55:44,378
Jean became a little bit out of
touch with the old school fellas.
682
00:55:44,411 --> 00:55:48,069
I really missed the old Jean a lot,
because I didn't want to call him,
683
00:55:48,093 --> 00:55:51,645
because I knew that I was going
to get this indifference from him.
684
00:55:51,678 --> 00:55:54,402
And then I'd go to his art
openings and I'd see him
685
00:55:54,426 --> 00:55:57,478
hanging out in the corner
with a whole different crowd.
686
00:55:57,511 --> 00:55:59,919
People that would ignore me.
687
00:55:59,944 --> 00:56:04,265
Andy was kind of in love with Jean-Michel,
and what's it like being a woman with
688
00:56:04,289 --> 00:56:09,211
a homosexual man and a straight men and
being the third wheel in a relationship?
689
00:56:09,236 --> 00:56:10,936
That's what it was like.
690
00:56:11,077 --> 00:56:12,910
I didn't visit him as much.
691
00:56:12,944 --> 00:56:15,944
And I just really felt, well, you
know, I don't really belong there.
692
00:56:19,678 --> 00:56:22,782
As he became such a
star in New York, I think it
693
00:56:22,806 --> 00:56:25,910
became harder for him
to work in New York City.
694
00:56:25,944 --> 00:56:29,449
Around that time, he realized
that he really did like Los Angeles,
695
00:56:29,473 --> 00:56:32,977
and I think he also realized he
could get a lot of work done here.
696
00:56:33,011 --> 00:56:38,144
The Sollares rented a studio for him in Venice,
which he had for about a year and a half.
697
00:56:38,177 --> 00:56:41,272
And he made quite a
lot of art in that studio.
698
00:56:43,311 --> 00:56:44,466
I used to love
watching him paint.
699
00:56:44,491 --> 00:56:46,638
He didn't mind. I could sit
there and watch him paint.
700
00:56:46,828 --> 00:56:48,740
And it was just beautiful
the way he painted.
701
00:56:49,159 --> 00:56:52,126
I mean, it was just like, you
know, fast and elegant and...
702
00:57:07,544 --> 00:57:11,578
There was a whole group of people out
here that he felt really comfortable with.
703
00:57:11,611 --> 00:57:15,618
I started just hanging out with him and
filming him painting, and I probably filmed
704
00:57:15,642 --> 00:57:19,452
him over two or three years just hanging
out in the studio painting with him.
705
00:57:19,478 --> 00:57:25,385
What Jean would to do is he would go
out at night, and then he would come home
706
00:57:25,409 --> 00:57:31,777
and basically lock himself in for two,
three days, just paint and paint and paint.
707
00:57:31,810 --> 00:57:33,678
So do you have a
specific method of working?
708
00:57:33,711 --> 00:57:35,944
Do you have certain
hours that you always work?
709
00:57:35,977 --> 00:57:38,211
I just have to... I wish
they'd find a television.
710
00:57:38,244 --> 00:57:40,764
I have to have some source material
around me, you know, to work off.
711
00:57:40,789 --> 00:57:42,056
Like what?
712
00:57:42,478 --> 00:57:44,678
I don't know. You know,
magazines, textbooks.
713
00:57:44,711 --> 00:57:47,810
You don't mind having a lot of people
around, while you're painting, do you?
714
00:57:47,844 --> 00:57:51,010
I've discovered that I think I'd rather
work alone more than anything, you know?
715
00:57:51,031 --> 00:57:54,059
I used to have assistants a lot
around me, and then on days when
716
00:57:54,083 --> 00:57:57,111
they wouldn't come, I would be
a lot more productive, you know?
717
00:57:57,144 --> 00:58:00,685
He was going out a lot, and he
was under a lot of pressure to paint,
718
00:58:00,709 --> 00:58:04,144
because he owed paintings to
his art collectors and art dealers.
719
00:58:04,177 --> 00:58:07,879
And each painting that he did
had to be a masterpiece, because
720
00:58:07,903 --> 00:58:11,544
now he was being criticized
in the international art world.
721
00:58:11,578 --> 00:58:14,932
I think it was getting harder and
harder for him to go back and forth
722
00:58:14,956 --> 00:58:18,211
from being an adventurous
20-year-old to being a serious painter.
723
00:58:25,137 --> 00:58:28,411
He told me that he was starting
to use heroin at that point.
724
00:58:28,444 --> 00:58:32,044
He chose to use these drugs in
order to concentrate, you know?
725
00:58:33,059 --> 00:58:37,311
You know, I prefer a
cup of coffee myself, but.
726
00:58:37,344 --> 00:58:38,944
Put yourself in the position.
727
00:58:38,977 --> 00:58:45,157
Here is this guy that is 20, 21,
22, you know, living on the street.
728
00:58:45,182 --> 00:58:50,486
And within the course of two years,
he became a really, really famous artist.
729
00:58:50,511 --> 00:58:53,220
Everyone started
flocking around him.
730
00:58:53,245 --> 00:58:58,111
Can you imagine how that
would be difficult to adapt to?
731
00:58:58,144 --> 00:59:06,711
He kind of drifted to begin taking heroin, knowing
that everyone who messed with it gets fucked up.
732
00:59:06,745 --> 00:59:09,877
Jean did want to be
this burning ember.
733
00:59:09,910 --> 00:59:13,044
In modern times, there is for
sure, whether you take Jackson.
734
00:59:13,077 --> 00:59:18,949
Pollock, whether you take Vincent Van
Gogh, a romance about the notion of the
735
00:59:18,973 --> 00:59:24,844
artist as a person whose life is so
intense that it's more than he can bear.
736
00:59:24,877 --> 00:59:30,311
And there is always the question of
is it a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy?
737
00:59:30,344 --> 00:59:34,382
And I think in particular in
Basquiat's case, he identified
738
00:59:34,406 --> 00:59:38,444
very consciously with these
heroes who had tragic endings.
739
00:59:38,478 --> 00:59:42,011
He knew about the
mystique of the drugs.
740
00:59:42,044 --> 00:59:46,244
How much of that was his only
relation taking to the next level.
741
00:59:46,278 --> 00:59:48,944
So everything that happens to
you then becomes heightened.
742
00:59:48,977 --> 00:59:50,777
It's hard to go back
to the real world.
743
00:59:56,244 --> 00:59:58,511
There was a huge show for Jean.
744
00:59:58,544 --> 01:00:01,849
It was a triumph because
he was in a show with
745
01:00:01,873 --> 01:00:05,177
the then, like, hottest
contemporary artists.
746
01:00:05,211 --> 01:00:09,678
I think like Schnabel and the Italian,
you know, Francesco Clemente.
747
01:00:09,711 --> 01:00:14,944
And me, Jean, we came outside and we
were gonna go downtown to have dinner.
748
01:00:14,977 --> 01:00:16,711
So Jean throws his
hand up, you know.
749
01:00:16,745 --> 01:00:18,044
He's waiting for a cab.
750
01:00:18,077 --> 01:00:22,910
And one cab, two cab, three
cab, four cab, five cabs like passed.
751
01:00:22,944 --> 01:00:25,711
And Jean would sometimes get
mad, because a cab would pass.
752
01:00:25,745 --> 01:00:29,578
He'd try to run up, like, try to
pull a door open, like, you fucker!
753
01:00:29,611 --> 01:00:30,645
You know?
754
01:00:30,678 --> 01:00:33,544
But you'd feel these moments.
755
01:00:33,578 --> 01:00:36,745
Like, it was just a part of being
black and living in New York City.
756
01:00:36,777 --> 01:00:38,817
Like, these things happen,
you know what I'm saying?
757
01:00:41,678 --> 01:00:44,535
Of all the arrests this year,
none have received as much
758
01:00:44,559 --> 01:00:47,311
public attention as that
of a young graffiti artist.
759
01:00:47,344 --> 01:00:50,887
On September 15, 25 year old
Michael Stewart was arrested for
760
01:00:50,911 --> 01:00:54,810
scrawling on the wall of a subway
station at 3:00 in the morning.
761
01:00:54,844 --> 01:00:58,144
30 minutes later, Stewart lay
in a deep coma at Bellevue.
762
01:00:58,177 --> 01:00:59,511
Hospital's emergency room.
763
01:00:59,544 --> 01:01:03,566
Michael Stewart was
my friend, and very gentle,
764
01:01:03,590 --> 01:01:07,611
kind of effeminate young
black man with dreads.
765
01:01:07,645 --> 01:01:12,316
He was going home one night on I
train to Brooklyn, where he lived with
766
01:01:12,340 --> 01:01:17,011
his parents, and he was beaten to
death by five white police officers.
767
01:01:17,044 --> 01:01:20,344
13 days after his arrest,
Michael Stewart was dead.
768
01:01:20,378 --> 01:01:22,810
It really affected Jean-Michel.
769
01:01:22,844 --> 01:01:25,645
He thought it could have
been him, and it could've been.
770
01:01:32,145 --> 01:01:34,535
To go from a place where
you're in a gallery, you're
771
01:01:34,559 --> 01:01:36,949
at parties, you're in a
place where everyone knows
772
01:01:36,974 --> 01:01:39,457
who the hell you are, and
is looking at you, or hoping
773
01:01:39,481 --> 01:01:41,777
to do drugs with you,
hoping to get laid by you.
774
01:01:41,810 --> 01:01:45,110
And to go back out in the world and
to be just this black guy walking around
775
01:01:45,134 --> 01:01:48,854
looking kind of bum my to most
people's eyes, that also was a mind fuck.
776
01:01:48,900 --> 01:01:52,910
It was very different for
a black artist in 1982.
777
01:01:52,944 --> 01:01:55,511
Very different
situation at that time.
778
01:01:55,544 --> 01:01:58,344
He was something the art
world had not seen before.
779
01:01:58,539 --> 01:02:02,095
- And... and so... and you're...
- you're seen as... as some sort
780
01:02:02,594 --> 01:02:05,645
of primal expressionism?
781
01:02:05,678 --> 01:02:07,211
Is that...
782
01:02:07,244 --> 01:02:08,944
Like an ape?
783
01:02:08,977 --> 01:02:10,844
Well, uh, let's...
784
01:02:10,877 --> 01:02:12,244
A primate?
785
01:02:12,278 --> 01:02:14,111
Well, I don't know.
786
01:02:14,144 --> 01:02:15,211
Is that... is that...
787
01:02:15,244 --> 01:02:17,278
You said it. I
don't... you said it.
788
01:02:17,311 --> 01:02:19,511
Well, um, you... you're...
789
01:02:19,544 --> 01:02:21,411
Jean-Michel wasn't different.
790
01:02:21,444 --> 01:02:24,044
He was an artist just like most
of the people at those scenes.
791
01:02:24,077 --> 01:02:26,272
But color makes you
feel different, and you
792
01:02:26,296 --> 01:02:28,491
know people are looking
at you a certain way.
793
01:02:28,511 --> 01:02:31,266
And all these different
comments that you read about him
794
01:02:31,290 --> 01:02:34,044
had all that kind of language
and coded language in it.
795
01:02:34,077 --> 01:02:37,844
This never would have
happened to a white guy.
796
01:02:37,877 --> 01:02:42,196
The art world, which is full of
liberal, left wing types, was feeling
797
01:02:42,220 --> 01:02:46,411
that they, you know, they needed
to make a bow in that direction.
798
01:02:46,444 --> 01:02:51,777
The disadvantaged
minorities and so on.
799
01:02:51,810 --> 01:03:00,444
His contribution to art is so
minuscule as to be practically nil.
800
01:03:00,478 --> 01:03:01,844
About your... your...
801
01:03:01,877 --> 01:03:07,378
the story that you're always being
locked in the basement in order to paint.
802
01:03:07,403 --> 01:03:09,277
Oh, that...
803
01:03:09,398 --> 01:03:10,997
that's just, um...
804
01:03:11,211 --> 01:03:13,077
it has a nasty edge
to it, you know?
805
01:03:13,111 --> 01:03:15,177
I mean, I was never
locked anywhere.
806
01:03:15,677 --> 01:03:19,611
I mean, if I was a white dude, they'd say artist
in residence, rather than say all that other stuff.
807
01:03:19,645 --> 01:03:24,278
You know, it's shocking to even
think that it's not that long ago.
808
01:03:24,311 --> 01:03:25,910
The early '80s.
809
01:03:25,944 --> 01:03:27,222
I had this a lot.
810
01:03:27,243 --> 01:03:29,324
Most of my reviews have
been more reviews on...
811
01:03:29,344 --> 01:03:30,578
Your personality.
812
01:03:30,611 --> 01:03:33,077
On my personality, yeah,
more so than my work, mostly.
813
01:03:33,111 --> 01:03:35,844
How so? How do you
react to that sort of thing?
814
01:03:36,189 --> 01:03:38,189
They're just racist,
most of these people.
815
01:03:40,944 --> 01:03:42,645
I know it affected him strongly.
816
01:03:42,678 --> 01:03:44,678
It was very tough on him.
817
01:03:44,711 --> 01:03:46,925
They have this image of
me, wild man, running, you
818
01:03:46,950 --> 01:03:50,688
know, wild monkey man,
whatever the fuck they say.
819
01:03:52,025 --> 01:03:55,059
There's this tendency to
say, well, he's a primitive artist.
820
01:03:55,311 --> 01:03:58,378
But he was a kid who grew up in
New York City in the 1970s and '80s.
821
01:03:58,411 --> 01:04:00,841
What the art world did
to him reminds me of what
822
01:04:00,865 --> 01:04:03,711
happens in... in various
points in black history to...
823
01:04:03,745 --> 01:04:05,111
to black artists.
824
01:04:05,144 --> 01:04:08,450
A, you become a representation
for white people of all black
825
01:04:08,474 --> 01:04:11,611
people, because you're the
only black person they know.
826
01:04:11,645 --> 01:04:15,356
The guy obviously spent a lot of
time thinking about what his place in the
827
01:04:15,380 --> 01:04:19,091
world was, and what's the place of
black people and black men in the world.
828
01:04:19,111 --> 01:04:22,211
It's all in all his work over
and over and over again.
829
01:04:59,478 --> 01:05:04,844
He excavated the incredibly
rich history of black people.
830
01:05:12,008 --> 01:05:16,275
He's had an epic view of
the history in his paintings.
831
01:05:16,645 --> 01:05:19,236
He's going back to slavery. He's
going back to Robert Johnson.
832
01:05:19,257 --> 01:05:21,124
He's going back to Joe Lewis.
833
01:05:50,511 --> 01:05:53,233
He's got a real sense of
why he celebrates black kings,
834
01:05:53,257 --> 01:05:55,877
is because the world
doesn't celebrate black kings.
835
01:06:11,810 --> 01:06:13,211
And suddenly
you're a black king.
836
01:06:16,144 --> 01:06:19,487
And now I'm here with
the quote, unquote "elite"
837
01:06:19,511 --> 01:06:23,211
of this particular world
who controlled your value.
838
01:06:23,244 --> 01:06:26,282
You're beholden to this world
to make you what you are, but
839
01:06:26,306 --> 01:06:29,344
you're always aware that how
I can become cold, and what...
840
01:06:29,378 --> 01:06:32,544
what am I to them?
I'm just last year's thing.
841
01:06:32,578 --> 01:06:35,728
And I'm just last
year's interesting negro.
842
01:06:41,544 --> 01:06:43,378
Something started
to happen to Jean.
843
01:06:43,411 --> 01:06:46,444
After a while, the party
started to wear on him, too.
844
01:06:46,478 --> 01:06:52,711
And he started to get a little bit more
distrustful, a little bit more paranoid.
845
01:06:52,745 --> 01:06:55,909
He distrusted different situations
that he would be in sometimes, and
846
01:06:55,933 --> 01:06:59,378
felt like he was being used, and
that really fucked him... fucked him up.
847
01:07:02,011 --> 01:07:04,464
You know, before, you
left paintings around all the
848
01:07:04,488 --> 01:07:07,237
time you leave these traces
of things that you've done.
849
01:07:07,258 --> 01:07:09,620
Are you more conscious of
not doing that, or do you think...
850
01:07:09,641 --> 01:07:10,745
Definitely.
851
01:07:10,766 --> 01:07:12,278
Because they've
wound up in auctions.
852
01:07:12,311 --> 01:07:13,877
People... yeah.
853
01:07:13,910 --> 01:07:17,645
I know people who've
sold those things.
854
01:07:17,678 --> 01:07:21,544
Like, everybody I know
has sold those things, yeah.
855
01:07:21,578 --> 01:07:25,077
He had more money
than all of his friends.
856
01:07:25,111 --> 01:07:30,177
And so that made him suspicious.
857
01:07:30,211 --> 01:07:33,844
More people started surrounding
him for exploitative reasons.
858
01:07:33,877 --> 01:07:39,944
So partly there was a reason to be paranoid,
and partly it was substance induced.
859
01:07:39,977 --> 01:07:44,578
If you're using substances, it's
very, very hard to stay grounded.
860
01:08:38,144 --> 01:08:39,678
I think he wanted to have fun.
861
01:08:40,043 --> 01:08:41,444
I think he was having fun.
862
01:08:41,478 --> 01:08:44,877
He wanted to have fun, and he
didn't want to get his feelings hurt.
863
01:08:44,910 --> 01:08:50,541
And if he just could've had a little bit
more support in a deep sense so he didn't
864
01:08:50,565 --> 01:08:56,544
feel so damn lonely and didn't feel so taken
advantage of and got so damn confused...
865
01:08:56,578 --> 01:09:01,844
he just didn't have the tools to
kind of navigate the sea of shit.
866
01:09:18,745 --> 01:09:19,745
He went to Hana.
867
01:09:25,344 --> 01:09:27,777
And he actually went
there with his father.
868
01:09:27,810 --> 01:09:30,249
I think he wanted to prove
something to his father, or
869
01:09:30,273 --> 01:09:32,711
he wanted to prove his
father that he was successful.
870
01:09:32,745 --> 01:09:37,311
Jean wanted his respect,
and he wanted his confirmation.
871
01:09:37,344 --> 01:09:41,611
So, um, of all the places that you've
traveled to, which has been your favorite?
872
01:09:41,645 --> 01:09:44,511
This is a boring answer,
but I'm hung up on Hawaii.
873
01:09:44,544 --> 01:09:45,810
- Yeah?
- Yeah.
874
01:09:45,844 --> 01:09:47,977
Why's that?
875
01:09:48,011 --> 01:09:54,544
Because it's, um, because of the convenience
of it and the wildness of it, I guess.
876
01:09:54,578 --> 01:09:56,893
Because you can buy
anything you can buy in America.
877
01:09:56,914 --> 01:09:59,211
You can buy your
favorite toothpaste.
878
01:09:59,232 --> 01:10:01,679
And then you can just drive
for two hours, and be, you
879
01:10:01,703 --> 01:10:04,150
know, and they speak
English, I guess. I don't know.
880
01:10:13,282 --> 01:10:15,578
I remember Steve Torton
once said something about you.
881
01:10:15,603 --> 01:10:19,192
Steve said, you know, Jean-Michel is
so cerebral, and he lives so much in his
882
01:10:19,216 --> 01:10:22,804
brain that you can put him anywhere
and it would be... it just wouldn't matter.
883
01:10:23,044 --> 01:10:26,632
It's like, it's not like you're unaware
of your environment, but it just
884
01:10:26,656 --> 01:10:30,244
in some way doesn't matter because
you're living in your brain and not...
885
01:10:30,278 --> 01:10:33,369
I think it definitely makes a difference,
though, from here and Hawaii and all.
886
01:10:33,389 --> 01:10:35,841
I mean, I think I have to learn
more and just not to work around
887
01:10:35,866 --> 01:10:39,137
what's around me and just
work with what I think, I guess.
888
01:10:40,449 --> 01:10:43,499
I shouldn't let what's around
me affect my work at all, I
889
01:10:43,523 --> 01:10:47,011
think, and just... and just work
on whatever I want to work on.
890
01:10:47,044 --> 01:10:51,301
Do you still see yourself as naive the
way you described yourself as a kid?
891
01:10:51,326 --> 01:10:52,864
- Yeah.
- You don't feel like...
892
01:10:52,889 --> 01:10:56,322
Because I'm... I'm always embarrassed
of... of the past. Always, you know?
893
01:10:56,591 --> 01:11:00,111
I always feel like if I knew
more, I wouldn't have done that.
894
01:11:00,144 --> 01:11:07,810
I mean, naive, too, in relation to this incredibly high
pressure, competitive art world that you're part of.
895
01:11:07,844 --> 01:11:11,810
Do you maintain a distance from it
so that you don't get cynical about it?
896
01:11:11,844 --> 01:11:14,745
I don't think the art world is a
thing with a set group of people.
897
01:11:14,777 --> 01:11:19,704
They're all mercenaries trying to make as much
money as they can as fast as they can, most of them.
898
01:11:21,626 --> 01:11:25,593
I always felt that LA was like a safety valve,
not that he could live his whole life here.
899
01:11:25,618 --> 01:11:28,618
He was hardly gonna fit
in here year in, year out.
900
01:11:28,714 --> 01:11:31,164
But I thought it was a great
place for him to work where he
901
01:11:31,188 --> 01:11:33,893
didn't feel as much pressure,
and he was more relaxed to paint.
902
01:11:40,578 --> 01:11:43,664
I thought when he moved
back to New York and gave
903
01:11:43,689 --> 01:11:47,718
up the studio here, and
I felt it was a shift there.
904
01:11:48,311 --> 01:11:51,611
Crosby Street got a little out of hand,
because everybody knew he was there.
905
01:11:51,645 --> 01:11:54,036
People would constantly
be ringing the bell, or he was
906
01:11:54,060 --> 01:11:56,678
only on the second floor, so
you could be like, yo, Jean.
907
01:11:56,711 --> 01:11:58,745
And he kind of needed
to move away from that.
908
01:11:58,777 --> 01:12:03,844
And Andy came through with
this place on Great Jones Street.
909
01:12:03,877 --> 01:12:06,444
Andy love Jean-Michel
like a son, almost.
910
01:12:06,478 --> 01:12:11,177
And at various times, he was
concerned about him, and I was, too.
911
01:12:11,211 --> 01:12:14,634
So we sometimes
talked about that.
912
01:12:14,659 --> 01:12:19,026
I hung out with him and Andy several times
during that period when they were very close.
913
01:12:19,051 --> 01:12:21,085
Andy was really
giving great advice.
914
01:12:21,154 --> 01:12:23,720
Andy would be like,
Jean, did you do this?
915
01:12:23,745 --> 01:12:25,812
And have you spoke to your mom?
916
01:12:26,011 --> 01:12:27,311
And did you blah blah blah?
917
01:12:27,344 --> 01:12:29,098
He'd go through
this list of things.
918
01:12:29,118 --> 01:12:31,411
And Jean would be like,
yeah, yeah, I did that.
919
01:12:31,444 --> 01:12:34,044
So I was just like, OK,
oh, wow, you know?
920
01:12:34,077 --> 01:12:37,936
It was strange that if you're paranoid
about people taking advantage of you,
921
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:41,716
and you think that people are
exploiting you, and all these things, that
922
01:12:41,740 --> 01:12:45,392
the one friend that you can call to
be there on the lifeline to help you
923
01:12:45,416 --> 01:12:49,378
out of this paranoia of your friends
taking advantage of you is Andy Warhol.
924
01:12:49,411 --> 01:12:52,745
But I think that with Jean,
Andy really was there for him.
925
01:12:52,777 --> 01:12:58,444
I'd never seen Andy so close with anyone,
and I'd never seen Jean so close with anyone.
926
01:12:58,478 --> 01:12:59,745
This was a real...
927
01:12:59,777 --> 01:13:02,044
these guys really
loved each other.
928
01:13:02,077 --> 01:13:06,406
And Jean tried to do that collaboration
show with him and thought he was gonna get
929
01:13:06,430 --> 01:13:10,759
some kind of approval for doing this, and
be accepted, and that it was a good thing.
930
01:13:39,745 --> 01:13:43,799
Their friendship and that
relationship led to not just dabbling
931
01:13:43,823 --> 01:13:47,877
and trying out a few things
together, but a large body of work.
932
01:13:50,810 --> 01:13:53,810
Listening to what he had to
say was probably the most fun.
933
01:13:54,273 --> 01:13:55,673
Seeing how he dealt with things.
934
01:13:58,854 --> 01:14:00,239
He's really...
he's really funny.
935
01:14:00,264 --> 01:14:01,211
Uh-huh.
936
01:14:01,244 --> 01:14:04,344
You know, just tells
a lot of funny jokes.
937
01:14:04,378 --> 01:14:08,211
I was there once when they were working,
and Andy would get mad at Jean-Michel for...
938
01:14:08,244 --> 01:14:12,111
he would paint something, and
then Jean-Michel would paint over it.
939
01:14:12,144 --> 01:14:15,311
And that was funny to see.
940
01:14:15,344 --> 01:14:18,782
Andy was more influenced by
Jean-Michel than Jean-Michel
941
01:14:18,806 --> 01:14:22,244
was influenced by Andy, because
Andy had given up drawing.
942
01:14:22,278 --> 01:14:28,011
And it was Jean-Michel that got him to draw again,
and nobody could draw like Andy. It was amazing.
943
01:14:28,044 --> 01:14:29,278
Yeah, we worked for a year.
944
01:14:29,311 --> 01:14:32,099
Would he come up with the
idea for one and then you'd
945
01:14:32,123 --> 01:14:34,910
come up with one, or how
did you do the collaboration?
946
01:14:34,944 --> 01:14:37,311
He started... he would
start most of the paintings.
947
01:14:37,344 --> 01:14:42,438
He would put... he'd start one
and put something very concrete
948
01:14:42,462 --> 01:14:47,555
or recognizable on, like a
newspaper headline or a product logo.
949
01:14:47,576 --> 01:14:50,623
And then I would sort of deface
it, and then... I would try to get him
950
01:14:50,647 --> 01:14:53,694
to work some more on it, you know,
and then I would work more on it.
951
01:14:53,715 --> 01:14:56,224
I would try to get him to do
at least two things, you know?
952
01:14:56,244 --> 01:14:57,944
Uh-huh.
953
01:14:57,977 --> 01:15:03,686
He likes to do just one hit, you know, and then...
and then have me do all the work after that, you know?
954
01:15:03,711 --> 01:15:07,345
So did you have rules like you couldn't
actually paint over his stuff, or...
955
01:15:07,370 --> 01:15:09,250
No, no, no. I used to paint
over his shitty stuff all the time.
956
01:15:09,275 --> 01:15:10,634
Yeah.
957
01:15:11,578 --> 01:15:15,371
And luckily for the world,
I suppose, they produced
958
01:15:15,395 --> 01:15:18,808
a spectacular body of
work, including a very
959
01:15:18,832 --> 01:15:22,626
large painting with the
Mobilgas Pegasus and a cut
960
01:15:22,650 --> 01:15:26,444
of meat and a penguin
that's a true masterpiece.
961
01:15:30,810 --> 01:15:33,746
He felt that if he could
align himself not only as a
962
01:15:33,770 --> 01:15:37,111
friend of Andy Warhol's, but
actually painting with Andy.
963
01:15:37,144 --> 01:15:40,208
Warhol, this was going to
take him to the next level... that
964
01:15:40,232 --> 01:15:43,244
he would finally get the
respect that he was looking for.
965
01:15:49,362 --> 01:15:50,861
It was not what he expected.
966
01:15:53,392 --> 01:15:57,125
Everybody attacked
those paintings.
967
01:15:57,150 --> 01:16:03,617
Jean-Michel embraced Andy at a period
and a time when Andy was not very popular.
968
01:16:03,745 --> 01:16:07,645
Andy basically couldn't sell
his work very well in the '80s.
969
01:16:14,822 --> 01:16:18,776
I don't know if Jean-Michel felt
bad that he let Andy down or if he
970
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:22,755
believed what the press said, that
Andy was taking advantage of him.
971
01:16:30,232 --> 01:16:32,810
They said that he was Andy's
lapdog and all these kind of things.
972
01:16:32,952 --> 01:16:34,452
It really hurt him.
973
01:16:53,790 --> 01:16:55,077
They said he was finished.
974
01:16:55,111 --> 01:16:56,844
It was the attitude.
975
01:16:56,877 --> 01:17:02,111
And it was hard for
us to understand.
976
01:17:02,144 --> 01:17:04,745
Andy Warhol died last week.
977
01:17:04,777 --> 01:17:09,877
One week ago today, as he lay in a
hospital bed following gallbladder surgery,
978
01:17:10,936 --> 01:17:13,170
Andy Warhol's heart
stopped beating.
979
01:17:14,244 --> 01:17:16,411
His condition had been stable.
980
01:17:16,444 --> 01:17:18,311
No one had expected him to die.
981
01:17:20,944 --> 01:17:26,444
I was so shocked, because I always thought
Andy would, like, outlive all of us.
982
01:17:45,231 --> 01:17:48,977
They had a falling out, and he
never had a chance to repair that.
983
01:17:49,011 --> 01:17:52,111
And so I think it was
extremely painful for him.
984
01:17:52,144 --> 01:17:55,244
He really went
downhill after that.
985
01:17:55,278 --> 01:17:59,711
Jean was devastated, and
he was crying like hysterically.
986
01:17:59,745 --> 01:18:04,645
And some friends said, yo, man, you should go
in there and talk to him, because people...
987
01:18:04,678 --> 01:18:07,650
everybody that went up
to him and tried to talk to
988
01:18:07,674 --> 01:18:10,645
him he just like shut
down like really abruptly.
989
01:18:10,678 --> 01:18:12,844
They were like, mm.
990
01:18:12,877 --> 01:18:14,511
And I was like, all right.
991
01:18:14,544 --> 01:18:17,678
And I went in and I could just
tell he was grieving. It was so bad.
992
01:18:41,044 --> 01:18:43,910
Early on, he wouldn't
admit that he was on drugs.
993
01:18:43,944 --> 01:18:46,810
He wouldn't... he didn't
want to talk about it.
994
01:19:05,745 --> 01:19:07,910
I didn't know he was
going that... that hard.
995
01:19:07,944 --> 01:19:12,077
I was shocked to hear that.
996
01:19:12,111 --> 01:19:17,111
I wasn't very involved in his life
in, like, the last year and a half.
997
01:19:17,144 --> 01:19:20,077
And I had heard he was
doing badly with drugs.
998
01:19:20,111 --> 01:19:23,711
And I went over there a
few times to check on him.
999
01:19:23,745 --> 01:19:28,922
I tried to address the drugs
with him, but he would become
1000
01:19:28,946 --> 01:19:35,519
very angry and violent at that
point if I talked to him about
1001
01:19:35,544 --> 01:19:36,910
stopping using drugs.
1002
01:19:36,944 --> 01:19:42,211
The pressure of that artificial world
made it difficult for him to do something.
1003
01:19:42,244 --> 01:19:44,456
They tell me that the
drugs are killing me,
1004
01:19:44,480 --> 01:19:46,691
and I stop, and then
they say my art's dead.
1005
01:19:59,553 --> 01:20:01,645
I had just taken
a job at Nell's.
1006
01:20:01,678 --> 01:20:04,544
And he came in super late,
and there was a bit of a scurry.
1007
01:20:04,578 --> 01:20:05,877
And I didn't know who he was.
1008
01:20:05,902 --> 01:20:08,727
He sat at my table, and
he sort of arrogantly said,
1009
01:20:08,752 --> 01:20:10,897
do you want to come and
see some famous paintings?
1010
01:20:10,918 --> 01:20:12,344
I'm a really famous painter.
1011
01:20:13,259 --> 01:20:19,011
And I said, you know, super famous
people don't have to say they're famous.
1012
01:20:19,044 --> 01:20:22,877
And so I went over, and his lights
were off, or the electric bill wasn't paid.
1013
01:20:22,918 --> 01:20:25,784
I mean, there wasn't a life going
on in there and we went back
1014
01:20:25,808 --> 01:20:28,674
to the back of the studio, and
he started to pull out paintings.
1015
01:20:28,711 --> 01:20:32,529
Eventually, he pulled a couple canvas
and said, which one do you like better?
1016
01:20:32,554 --> 01:20:36,288
And it was the double Elvis, which I
now know was Warhol's, and I didn't then.
1017
01:20:36,512 --> 01:20:38,545
And I said, you should
do more like that.
1018
01:20:38,570 --> 01:20:39,936
I really like that.
1019
01:20:40,007 --> 01:20:43,507
And so he just kind of chuckled and
said, you don't know who I am, do you?
1020
01:20:43,578 --> 01:20:45,011
And I said, no.
1021
01:20:45,035 --> 01:20:48,935
And so, you know, as time went on, I
realized, like, that's why he kept me around.
1022
01:20:48,977 --> 01:20:52,344
Because I hadn't the slightest
clue, really, of where I was.
1023
01:21:04,645 --> 01:21:08,244
I was like, kind of cheerleading,
because he didn't want to do the show.
1024
01:21:08,278 --> 01:21:10,844
He wanted to cancel the show.
1025
01:21:10,877 --> 01:21:14,011
I was there like saying,
no, you can... you can do it.
1026
01:21:14,044 --> 01:21:18,244
A week or a few days
and suddenly the opening.
1027
01:21:18,278 --> 01:21:23,611
His sort of hallmark had been this incredible
detail, and that show was very stark.
1028
01:21:23,645 --> 01:21:26,211
But it was powerful.
1029
01:21:26,244 --> 01:21:28,044
Kind of more simplified.
1030
01:21:28,077 --> 01:21:31,724
They were more spacious and...
and ironic, and they have a different
1031
01:21:31,748 --> 01:21:35,777
kind of head behind them, but they
also kind of reduced him a little bit.
1032
01:21:35,810 --> 01:21:38,244
It was just typical
of a late artist.
1033
01:21:38,278 --> 01:21:41,478
It's like he was doing
late work at the age of 27.
1034
01:22:02,977 --> 01:22:07,478
They were very good, but they were
really kind of lose and kind of scary.
1035
01:22:13,711 --> 01:22:18,678
One had the words, "man dies,
man dies" all the way through it.
1036
01:22:18,711 --> 01:22:21,611
It was very scary, you know?
1037
01:22:21,636 --> 01:22:24,963
And he was like, looking
really bad, and he had the
1038
01:22:24,988 --> 01:22:28,931
splotches on his face,
and he did not look good.
1039
01:22:29,745 --> 01:22:34,411
He was a bad frame of mind, because
he thought the press was going to get him.
1040
01:22:34,444 --> 01:22:39,782
And he was really worried about this
article that Anthony was writing about him
1041
01:22:39,806 --> 01:22:45,144
for New York Magazine, and he was upset
about his relationship with his father.
1042
01:22:45,177 --> 01:22:47,144
He was having a
hard time with drugs.
1043
01:22:47,177 --> 01:22:51,578
It was all kind of
hitting him at once.
1044
01:22:51,611 --> 01:22:54,511
At that time, there weren't
that many people around.
1045
01:22:54,544 --> 01:22:56,144
Very, very few.
1046
01:22:56,177 --> 01:23:01,444
His gallery, a couple people.
1047
01:23:01,478 --> 01:23:02,544
I would say that I...
1048
01:23:02,578 --> 01:23:05,502
I think that he would...
he was a bit lonely.
1049
01:23:05,549 --> 01:23:09,711
We were having lunch at the Odeon and
Jean-Michel's dad was there with some businessmen.
1050
01:23:09,745 --> 01:23:11,944
So he's like, oh, that's
my dad over there.
1051
01:23:11,977 --> 01:23:14,077
And he went up, he popped
up, and he bounced over.
1052
01:23:14,111 --> 01:23:17,177
And he was with his friends, which
was us, and his dad was with his friends.
1053
01:23:17,211 --> 01:23:19,378
He's like, hey, Dad, how
you doing? Look, I'm...
1054
01:23:19,411 --> 01:23:22,745
I'm taking all my friends out to
lunch. I'm successful. Blah, blah, blah.
1055
01:23:22,777 --> 01:23:25,111
And Jean-Michel came back
with his tail between his legs.
1056
01:23:25,144 --> 01:23:28,077
His dad kind of iced him.
1057
01:23:28,111 --> 01:23:32,411
Just those moments where I
saw him... it just deflated him.
1058
01:23:32,444 --> 01:23:36,144
I've seen this with other
celebrity friends of mine.
1059
01:23:36,177 --> 01:23:39,034
Once they've encountered a
certain amount of success, they tend
1060
01:23:39,059 --> 01:23:43,547
to go back to find people that
they knew before they were famous.
1061
01:23:45,211 --> 01:23:49,211
He came to my 1st Street
apartment and rang the bell.
1062
01:23:49,244 --> 01:23:51,144
And it was the
middle of the night.
1063
01:23:51,177 --> 01:23:55,378
And at that point, I had a... a
new boyfriend that I was living with.
1064
01:23:55,411 --> 01:24:00,678
And he got up, and who is it?
1065
01:24:00,711 --> 01:24:01,877
Jean-Michel. Can I come in?
1066
01:24:01,910 --> 01:24:03,478
Is Suzanne there?
Is Suzanne there?
1067
01:24:03,511 --> 01:24:06,077
And he wasn't... Jonathan
was not gonna let him in.
1068
01:24:06,111 --> 01:24:07,910
And I said, you
have to let him in.
1069
01:24:07,944 --> 01:24:09,777
Maybe he's in trouble, you know?
1070
01:24:09,810 --> 01:24:14,368
And so I buzzed him
in, but he never came up.
1071
01:24:14,441 --> 01:24:16,281
And that was the last
encounter I had with him.
1072
01:24:20,244 --> 01:24:26,011
And he showed up to my apartment over on
1st Street, and he yelled out the window.
1073
01:24:26,044 --> 01:24:28,844
And he shows up with two
paintings... with a diptych.
1074
01:24:29,330 --> 01:24:32,082
It said, to SAMO, from SAMO.
1075
01:24:34,278 --> 01:24:40,745
And like a... like a creep, I turned
around and I sold those paintings.
1076
01:24:40,777 --> 01:24:42,511
Yeah.
1077
01:24:42,544 --> 01:24:43,711
When he was still alive?
1078
01:24:43,745 --> 01:24:45,044
He was still alive.
1079
01:24:45,077 --> 01:24:48,044
One of the last times I saw
him was New Year's Eve.
1080
01:24:48,077 --> 01:24:55,578
He was sitting by himself at a
bar looking very sad, but so sweet.
1081
01:24:55,611 --> 01:24:58,111
And he just smiled at me.
1082
01:25:02,311 --> 01:25:07,366
That image haunts me, because
there he was New Year's Eve all by
1083
01:25:07,390 --> 01:25:12,444
himself at this bar, the most
famous artist of his generation.
1084
01:25:31,378 --> 01:25:34,544
We bought the house on
Maui that he'd been to before.
1085
01:25:34,578 --> 01:25:38,344
The intention was
to just clean up.
1086
01:25:38,378 --> 01:25:43,011
And last minute, he decided he wanted to do that
on his own, because it wasn't a pretty time.
1087
01:25:43,044 --> 01:25:46,211
And so he went on his own.
1088
01:25:51,144 --> 01:25:56,344
He came back through Los Angeles, and he was totally
sober, and he wasn't doing drugs or anything.
1089
01:25:56,378 --> 01:25:58,977
I picked him up sitting
out on a street corner.
1090
01:25:59,011 --> 01:26:02,999
We ended up picking up Chinese
food, and then we drove up to the top
1091
01:26:03,023 --> 01:26:07,011
of Mulholland and then just sat
there in my car and ate Chinese food.
1092
01:26:10,810 --> 01:26:12,745
He was not in a good place.
1093
01:26:13,215 --> 01:26:15,722
He felt like his career
was over, and he really
1094
01:26:15,747 --> 01:26:19,533
knew that if he did
drugs again, he would die.
1095
01:26:21,273 --> 01:26:23,840
But for some reason, he
went back to New York.
1096
01:26:28,111 --> 01:26:30,678
The summer is a
strange, you know...
1097
01:26:30,711 --> 01:26:32,844
it's a motherfucker in New York.
1098
01:26:32,877 --> 01:26:34,111
It's hot.
1099
01:26:34,144 --> 01:26:36,877
It's very lonely and
empty in the summer.
1100
01:26:40,711 --> 01:26:47,678
I get a message on my answering machine from him
saying that he was back, and that he was... he was...
1101
01:26:47,711 --> 01:26:49,111
he was clean.
1102
01:26:49,144 --> 01:26:51,444
He was feeling great.
1103
01:26:51,478 --> 01:26:53,144
And he wanted to see me.
1104
01:26:53,177 --> 01:26:56,910
It's like that... that classic
thing about people who are...
1105
01:26:56,944 --> 01:26:58,344
are... they get caught.
1106
01:26:58,378 --> 01:27:01,822
They get caught at the oddest
of times when they... when they
1107
01:27:01,846 --> 01:27:04,813
die from drug... drug... drugs,
alcohol, and that kind of thing.
1108
01:27:04,838 --> 01:27:06,171
It was a normal day.
1109
01:27:06,196 --> 01:27:10,720
He and Kevin had tickets to go to Run
DMC, and he was very excited about going.
1110
01:27:10,745 --> 01:27:12,344
He got in a limousine
or something.
1111
01:27:12,378 --> 01:27:15,745
We were going high style to
the... to the... to the concert.
1112
01:27:15,777 --> 01:27:17,910
Went out there and said,
Kevin's on the phone.
1113
01:27:17,944 --> 01:27:20,278
And he was sleeping.
And so this was...
1114
01:27:20,311 --> 01:27:21,645
this was normal.
1115
01:27:21,678 --> 01:27:25,910
I went up a couple times, and he
was still in bed, resting or whatever.
1116
01:27:25,944 --> 01:27:29,528
So the last time that I went
up, he wasn't on the bed.
1117
01:27:30,511 --> 01:27:36,334
Um, and he'd
fallen on the floor.
1118
01:27:37,544 --> 01:27:42,411
We sprinted over to... when she said he
wouldn't wake up, we ran over to his house.
1119
01:27:42,444 --> 01:27:48,910
And she opened the door, and we went
upstairs, and he was laying there unconscious.
1120
01:27:48,944 --> 01:27:51,077
I was on the beach and
somebody came up and told me.
1121
01:27:51,111 --> 01:27:54,820
Told me that he'd died.
1122
01:29:28,544 --> 01:29:31,278
Nothing surprises
me about the success.
1123
01:29:31,311 --> 01:29:36,499
I mean, the only thing that surprises me
is how, even though I was fan number one
1124
01:29:36,523 --> 01:29:41,711
or two, how I didn't even understand how
extraordinary the vision was and talent.
1125
01:29:57,705 --> 01:29:58,877
So the...
1126
01:29:58,910 --> 01:30:00,211
now the future has arrived.
1127
01:30:00,244 --> 01:30:04,430
We're already 20 years later,
and we can see better now.
1128
01:30:05,615 --> 01:30:10,089
Jean-Michel would be
ecstatic, because the way the
1129
01:30:10,114 --> 01:30:15,628
game is played, Jean
played it, you know, well.
1130
01:30:17,077 --> 01:30:18,877
This is a song for
the genius child.
1131
01:30:18,910 --> 01:30:21,944
Sing it softly, for
the song is wild.
1132
01:30:21,977 --> 01:30:25,444
Sing it softly, as ever you can.
1133
01:30:25,478 --> 01:30:27,645
Let the song get out of hand.
1134
01:30:27,678 --> 01:30:29,745
Nobody loves a genius child.
1135
01:30:29,777 --> 01:30:32,444
Can you love an
eagle, tame or wild?
1136
01:30:32,478 --> 01:30:36,810
Wild or tame, can you love a
monster of frightening name?
1137
01:30:36,844 --> 01:30:39,478
Nobody loves a genius child.
1138
01:30:39,511 --> 01:30:43,511
Free him, and let
his soul run wild.
99075
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