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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:39,119 --> 00:00:42,086 You should probably put your chair here. 4 00:00:42,119 --> 00:00:43,253 OK. 5 00:00:49,986 --> 00:00:52,086 Hello out there in TV land. 6 00:00:52,111 --> 00:00:55,501 You have to remember, I'm just... this is not being filmed, you have to remember. 7 00:00:57,552 --> 00:01:00,352 - It's just, you know. - Why? 8 00:01:01,816 --> 00:01:04,183 OK, are we ready? 9 00:01:04,952 --> 00:01:07,453 - You ready? - Yeah. 10 00:01:11,148 --> 00:01:12,280 OK. 11 00:01:15,015 --> 00:01:17,819 This is high quality film, right? 12 00:03:17,589 --> 00:03:22,597 New York in the late 1970s was economically depressed and definitely crime ridden. 13 00:03:22,622 --> 00:03:27,281 Times Square was full of junkies, prostitutes, and sex shops. 14 00:03:27,306 --> 00:03:32,063 Perhaps because the city has served as a backdrop for so many poignant films... 15 00:03:32,088 --> 00:03:34,654 "Midnight Cowboy," "Taxi Driver"... 16 00:03:35,307 --> 00:03:40,097 there existed a romantic allure of New York City back in those days. 17 00:03:40,122 --> 00:03:46,070 Downtown Manhattan became a magnet for art students, runaways, and a lot of lost personalities. 18 00:03:46,095 --> 00:03:55,715 The circumstances all came together in a rare mix where the creative and their inspirations could live side by side in dark, dramatic splendor. 19 00:03:56,986 --> 00:03:58,670 Everybody did everything. 20 00:03:58,678 --> 00:04:04,678 You had a band, you were a painter, you were an actor, you were a sculptor, a writer, you were a poet. 21 00:04:04,711 --> 00:04:05,844 You just did everything. 22 00:04:05,877 --> 00:04:09,745 People came here to be artists or musicians or writers or whatever. 23 00:04:09,777 --> 00:04:15,344 They could afford to live in Manhattan, and you could also spend time doing what you wanted to do. 24 00:04:15,378 --> 00:04:18,910 You didn't have to have a regular job to be able to be an artist. 25 00:04:18,944 --> 00:04:21,444 You could just, like, say I'm a filmmaker. 26 00:04:21,478 --> 00:04:25,944 And like, your first screening, we would be there. 27 00:04:25,977 --> 00:04:27,645 And you'd be a filmmaker. 28 00:04:27,678 --> 00:04:34,810 Everybody lived, worked in this area around the Bowery, and you just walked around there and you meet everybody. 29 00:04:34,844 --> 00:04:36,211 Everyone would be there. 30 00:04:36,244 --> 00:04:42,778 After a certain hour, downtown became a playground for a big pool of about 500 or 600 people. 31 00:04:51,100 --> 00:04:54,344 Howie Montaug quoted the term Downtown 500... 32 00:04:54,378 --> 00:05:03,085 that there were about 500 people who we all knew each other, and we all did various forms of art and fashion, and we all kind of converged. 33 00:05:21,311 --> 00:05:27,877 I started to see these oblique pieces of poetry around the city. 34 00:05:27,911 --> 00:05:30,844 A pin drops like a pungent odor. 35 00:05:30,877 --> 00:05:32,044 Copyright SAMO. 36 00:05:32,077 --> 00:05:35,531 Or make soup, build a fort, set that on fire. 37 00:05:38,995 --> 00:05:41,819 You see a tag in like, the art district in Soho. 38 00:05:41,844 --> 00:05:45,077 It was kind of weird, because it wasn't like a hip hop graffiti thing. 39 00:05:45,111 --> 00:05:48,211 There was something else going on there. 40 00:05:48,244 --> 00:05:50,545 It was obviously intended for the art world. 41 00:05:53,344 --> 00:05:55,311 You know, a lot of us would talk about it. 42 00:05:55,344 --> 00:05:57,710 Who was SAMO? Have you ever met SAMO? 43 00:05:57,744 --> 00:06:01,260 Oh, it's an old woman. 44 00:06:01,285 --> 00:06:04,084 And it turned out that it was Jean Michel. 45 00:06:04,268 --> 00:06:05,621 Didn't you do that with another guy? 46 00:06:05,646 --> 00:06:07,946 A guy named Al Diaz. 47 00:06:08,378 --> 00:06:10,411 We started doing this, uh... 48 00:06:10,444 --> 00:06:14,111 the SAMO graffiti while we were still in school. 49 00:06:14,144 --> 00:06:17,804 We just wanted to do some sort of conceptual art project. 50 00:06:21,276 --> 00:06:25,677 The whole objective in doing graffiti is fame. 51 00:06:29,178 --> 00:06:32,111 Achieving in a certain status and a certain recognition. 52 00:06:32,144 --> 00:06:36,545 Like, I'm going to take control of that space, and people are gonna know me. 53 00:06:36,578 --> 00:06:39,378 Jean always wanted to be famous. 54 00:06:39,411 --> 00:06:44,810 The Soho news started printing our graffiti. 55 00:06:44,844 --> 00:06:48,877 What he was doing was quite different from what graffiti artists were doing. 56 00:06:48,911 --> 00:06:53,211 What they were doing was writing their name, and sometimes there was a painterly aspect to it. 57 00:06:53,244 --> 00:06:54,977 The SAMO tags had content. 58 00:06:55,011 --> 00:06:57,071 There were like poetry. 59 00:06:57,487 --> 00:06:58,719 We had a hit with it. 60 00:06:58,744 --> 00:07:02,066 He had made a buzz in his own way. 61 00:07:02,091 --> 00:07:04,812 He had tagged up a new area. 62 00:07:04,837 --> 00:07:05,971 People were seeing it. 63 00:07:14,111 --> 00:07:16,978 It is the Canal Zone, and it's happening here and now. 64 00:07:17,011 --> 00:07:21,941 If you're lost, you can find yourself right here, right now, in the Canal Zone. 65 00:07:24,436 --> 00:07:28,767 We decide that we're going to have a party, and it was called the Canal Zone party. 66 00:07:29,427 --> 00:07:31,394 Jean had heard about this party. 67 00:07:31,578 --> 00:07:35,544 One of the guys came over and said, SAMO is here. 68 00:07:35,578 --> 00:07:37,244 And I was like... 69 00:07:37,278 --> 00:07:38,344 I was like, really? 70 00:07:38,378 --> 00:07:40,745 He's like yeah. He's here. He wants to meet you. 71 00:07:40,777 --> 00:07:42,910 I was like, wow, where? And there he was. 72 00:07:42,944 --> 00:07:44,177 SAMO. 73 00:07:44,219 --> 00:07:47,701 A-M-O. Come on, you've seen it on the walls everywhere, especially down in the Village. 74 00:07:47,722 --> 00:07:50,211 This gentleman right here is SAMO. 75 00:07:50,455 --> 00:07:52,954 What did you look like then? 76 00:07:53,345 --> 00:07:57,522 I shaved my head right when I left home, because I thought it would be a good disguise, you know? 77 00:07:57,543 --> 00:08:01,043 Because they wouldn't be looking for somebody with a shaved head or something. 78 00:08:02,211 --> 00:08:05,844 And Jean wrote, which of the following symbols are omnipresent? 79 00:08:05,877 --> 00:08:08,844 A, Lee Harvey Oswald, B, Coca-Cola, et cetera. 80 00:08:08,877 --> 00:08:13,744 His multi-choice graffiti SAMO pieces. 81 00:08:13,777 --> 00:08:15,211 I went up to him later on. 82 00:08:15,244 --> 00:08:17,645 First thing Jean said was, you want to start a band? 83 00:08:17,677 --> 00:08:19,611 And I'm like, yeah, sure. 84 00:08:19,645 --> 00:08:22,311 And we started what became Gray that night. 85 00:08:35,844 --> 00:08:41,511 And what was special about this band was that neither Jean or I were musicians. 86 00:08:41,545 --> 00:08:46,545 Michael was playing the drums like a maniac, and Jean couldn't play the clarinet. 87 00:08:46,578 --> 00:08:47,911 It blew me away. 88 00:08:47,944 --> 00:08:49,011 I was like, wow. 89 00:08:49,044 --> 00:08:50,724 This is the best group I've seen, you know? 90 00:08:54,287 --> 00:08:59,065 At the performance, and he was just playing a kind of noise machine. 91 00:09:03,225 --> 00:09:11,011 Jean Michel was just sort of playing and I remember thinking, like, this is a totally cool thing. 92 00:09:11,044 --> 00:09:15,744 And it also seemed like girls really liked him, something I had yet to really experience. 93 00:09:15,777 --> 00:09:19,411 Jean-Michel's first public work is the band Gray. 94 00:09:34,011 --> 00:09:39,545 I was a bartender in a sleazy dive bar on 2nd Avenue and 5th Street. 95 00:09:39,578 --> 00:09:47,311 And he would come in and he would stand against the wall, and sometimes play the jukebox and stare at me. 96 00:09:47,344 --> 00:09:49,077 And he wouldn't buy anything. 97 00:09:49,111 --> 00:09:51,944 He had a big overcoat on and dreadlocks. 98 00:09:53,047 --> 00:09:55,402 It was kind of frightening, actually. 99 00:09:56,611 --> 00:09:58,645 This went on for weeks. 100 00:09:58,677 --> 00:10:06,844 Eventually, one day, he came up to the bar and sat down and ordered a drink. 101 00:10:06,877 --> 00:10:12,444 And he ordered the most expensive thing that we had, which was Remy Martin. 102 00:10:12,527 --> 00:10:20,840 And I later realized that the reason he wasn't sitting at the bar was he had no money to buy a drink. 103 00:10:24,783 --> 00:10:26,044 Didn't have any money, you know? 104 00:10:26,077 --> 00:10:29,344 We were still sneaking on the trains to move around a lot, you know? 105 00:10:29,378 --> 00:10:32,611 Crashing on people's couches from here to there. 106 00:10:32,645 --> 00:10:33,911 It was crazy times. 107 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:48,358 I think that's how a lot of us were living, 18, 19 year olds who had just come to New York. 108 00:10:48,378 --> 00:10:52,444 You could live here wild in the street and live hand to mouth. 109 00:10:52,478 --> 00:10:56,011 I really loved the roughneck kind of style of living. 110 00:10:56,044 --> 00:11:00,311 Jean was doing it in a much more intensely radical, bohemian style. 111 00:11:00,344 --> 00:11:02,178 - And you were totally broke, right? - Yeah. 112 00:11:02,211 --> 00:11:04,545 - I was living, you know... - From place to place. 113 00:11:04,578 --> 00:11:05,677 Yeah, place to place. 114 00:11:05,710 --> 00:11:08,710 So how were you, um, surviving, then? 115 00:11:08,744 --> 00:11:09,877 I just was, you know? 116 00:11:09,911 --> 00:11:11,645 Just... 117 00:11:12,391 --> 00:11:15,933 you just end up surviving, you have to, I guess. 118 00:11:16,324 --> 00:11:18,088 Is this in Brooklyn, or did you go to Manhattan? 119 00:11:18,109 --> 00:11:20,144 I went to Washington Square Park. 120 00:11:20,437 --> 00:11:23,044 Did you ever do, like, take a part time job, or did you... 121 00:11:23,069 --> 00:11:24,647 - how did you make money? - No, I really didn't. 122 00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:29,179 Just something really simple and dumb as how did you have the money that you had to live on? 123 00:11:30,442 --> 00:11:32,395 I used to look for money at the Mudd Club on the floor. 124 00:11:32,420 --> 00:11:34,645 Really? 125 00:11:34,934 --> 00:11:37,089 Used to find it, too, most times. 126 00:11:38,051 --> 00:11:40,276 I really don't know how I got through that, just walking 127 00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:42,444 around for days and days without sleeping, you know? 128 00:11:42,469 --> 00:11:45,191 Eating cheese doodles or whatever, just, you know? 129 00:11:45,611 --> 00:11:48,984 And what were you thinking about then? I mean, what was, like, your vision of... 130 00:11:49,005 --> 00:11:50,511 It's not... this is not funny. 131 00:11:50,544 --> 00:11:51,645 Cheese doodles. 132 00:11:51,678 --> 00:11:52,711 What was... 133 00:11:52,745 --> 00:11:55,278 Because they were only $0.15, that's why. 134 00:11:55,311 --> 00:11:58,578 Panhandling, drinking wine with winos. 135 00:12:03,844 --> 00:12:07,077 Both Jean-Michel and I are first generation. Our parents were immigrants. 136 00:12:12,077 --> 00:12:20,444 If you've decided to live a sort of counterculture subversive lifestyle, it's very difficult to go home. 137 00:12:20,478 --> 00:12:24,044 I was determined not to go home again. 138 00:12:24,077 --> 00:12:27,144 But did you think, I could be a bum forever? 139 00:12:27,177 --> 00:12:29,016 Yeah, I sort of did, yeah. 140 00:12:33,005 --> 00:12:35,417 I thought I was going to be a bum forever. 141 00:12:39,044 --> 00:12:42,877 We were basically trying to make it happen, trying to not just... 142 00:12:42,910 --> 00:12:49,810 and I feel awkward saying fame, because in this era now, it's like, you don't really want to... 143 00:12:49,844 --> 00:12:50,977 who wants to be famous? 144 00:12:51,011 --> 00:12:53,311 It's so, like, that shit is whack. 145 00:12:53,344 --> 00:12:57,810 But it was really very specifically about making it happen, you know? 146 00:12:57,844 --> 00:12:59,244 And like, I knew just... 147 00:12:59,278 --> 00:13:00,645 he was gonna make it happen. 148 00:13:04,196 --> 00:13:07,720 I heard all these stories of that you survived on the 149 00:13:07,744 --> 00:13:11,745 streets from like, having all these different girlfriends. 150 00:13:11,777 --> 00:13:14,645 - Is that true at all? - Yeah, that was some of it, yeah. 151 00:13:14,678 --> 00:13:16,344 That they helped you out a lot. 152 00:13:16,378 --> 00:13:18,378 That you... you could always stay somewhere? 153 00:13:18,411 --> 00:13:21,563 At least you had places to stay doing that. 154 00:13:22,944 --> 00:13:26,910 That's some of it, yeah. 155 00:13:26,944 --> 00:13:30,044 I remember this one time walking by an art opening. 156 00:13:30,077 --> 00:13:32,144 It was a Schnabel opening. 157 00:13:32,177 --> 00:13:34,278 And Julian was a big star. 158 00:13:34,311 --> 00:13:35,944 Darling of the art world. 159 00:13:35,977 --> 00:13:37,444 He was lionized in the press. 160 00:13:37,478 --> 00:13:39,777 He was the man at Mr. Chow's. 161 00:13:39,810 --> 00:13:40,877 And Jean... 162 00:13:40,910 --> 00:13:44,944 I'll never forget what Jean said. Jean said, I'm gonna box with that guy one day. 163 00:13:44,977 --> 00:13:46,977 I'm gonna box him one day. 164 00:13:50,173 --> 00:13:56,189 He was blessed with astonishing sophistication as a teenager. 165 00:13:56,511 --> 00:14:00,177 He understood exactly where to position himself. 166 00:14:00,211 --> 00:14:04,730 At age 18, he was already at the absolute epicenter 167 00:14:04,754 --> 00:14:08,910 of the most advanced music, art in the world. 168 00:14:32,611 --> 00:14:35,335 TV Party in the past has brought you some of the most 169 00:14:35,359 --> 00:14:37,977 significant commentators on graffiti in New York. 170 00:14:38,011 --> 00:14:43,263 But tonight, we're lucky enough to have with us, uh, probably the most language 171 00:14:43,287 --> 00:14:48,134 orientated of all graffiti artists in New York, SAMO and his associate. 172 00:14:48,155 --> 00:14:49,877 - SAMO. - SAMO. Sorry. 173 00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:51,857 It's Mr. SAMO. This is my personal secretary. 174 00:14:51,877 --> 00:14:53,044 Sorry, Mr. SAMO. 175 00:14:53,077 --> 00:14:56,517 Do you write something different every time, or do you write the... you know. 176 00:14:56,538 --> 00:14:59,244 I've written the same thing before. Just... 177 00:14:59,278 --> 00:15:01,910 it all depends, you know, like, how inspired I feel. 178 00:15:01,944 --> 00:15:04,044 And then he just started coming around. 179 00:15:10,378 --> 00:15:13,810 He loved working the character generator in the control room. 180 00:15:13,844 --> 00:15:18,378 He would sort of graffiti the screen with kind of running commentary. 181 00:15:28,251 --> 00:15:34,193 Before Jean had started making the paintings, Jean began to make those postcards. 182 00:15:42,244 --> 00:15:46,211 So he was just on the street selling these cards, and he still had the mohawk. 183 00:15:46,244 --> 00:15:49,211 He was wearing these paint splattered smocks. 184 00:15:49,244 --> 00:15:51,211 He was just like this spectacle. 185 00:15:51,244 --> 00:15:54,511 He walked into this restaurant where Andy Warhol and Henry. 186 00:15:54,544 --> 00:15:57,544 Geldzahler were having lunch. 187 00:15:57,578 --> 00:16:02,511 Andy Warhol, he was like, just a demigod or a god or whatever. 188 00:16:02,544 --> 00:16:04,411 He was our hero. 189 00:16:04,444 --> 00:16:05,810 He was our everything. 190 00:16:05,844 --> 00:16:11,544 He was just, like, a god, you know, who we all were in New York for. 191 00:16:11,578 --> 00:16:14,316 So he went in and he presented himself and he 192 00:16:14,340 --> 00:16:17,077 introduced himself and offered these postcards. 193 00:16:17,111 --> 00:16:19,278 And Warhol bought two or three. 194 00:16:19,311 --> 00:16:20,511 I was like, what? 195 00:16:20,544 --> 00:16:21,711 I said, what happened? 196 00:16:21,745 --> 00:16:24,424 He was like, yeah, I just walked up to him, man. And I was like, yeah. 197 00:16:24,444 --> 00:16:26,678 Well, what did Henry Geldzahler say? 198 00:16:26,711 --> 00:16:28,077 He said it was young. 199 00:16:28,571 --> 00:16:29,704 I was like, really? 200 00:16:33,478 --> 00:16:37,411 He saw Andy as number one, and he wanted to be number one. 201 00:16:37,444 --> 00:16:40,177 So it was a natural thing for him to want to be around him. 202 00:16:40,211 --> 00:16:43,777 I'm sure he would have like, hung out with Picasso, too, you know? 203 00:16:55,711 --> 00:16:58,278 I went out every night, and I think he did too. 204 00:16:58,311 --> 00:17:00,910 We all kind of went out together. 205 00:17:00,944 --> 00:17:03,055 To Jean-Michel's credit, he wanted to be an 206 00:17:03,079 --> 00:17:05,645 artist, and he wanted to be an artist of his time. 207 00:17:05,678 --> 00:17:07,959 And that's how artists were sort of presenting themselves. 208 00:17:15,122 --> 00:17:20,405 Big thing about Jean was, you know, we were out getting our groove on on the floor, dancing, 209 00:17:20,429 --> 00:17:25,654 getting drink tickets, you know, putting that smoke in the air, you know what I'm saying? 210 00:17:25,679 --> 00:17:29,379 Like, it was definitely going down in the major level. 211 00:17:30,196 --> 00:17:31,844 He was a darling on the scene. 212 00:17:31,877 --> 00:17:34,178 He was the prince of the scene at the time. 213 00:17:34,203 --> 00:17:38,269 He had a really incredible way of dancing, because it was just drop dead cool. 214 00:17:42,093 --> 00:17:43,526 The girls were gluing to him. 215 00:17:44,244 --> 00:17:46,211 Glue, glue, glue, glue, glue. 216 00:17:46,244 --> 00:17:48,645 He broke the heart of a lot of girls. 217 00:17:52,993 --> 00:17:57,111 I met him at the Mudd Club on the dance floor. 218 00:17:57,144 --> 00:18:01,211 He was kind of down and out financially, and I'd seen his. 219 00:18:01,244 --> 00:18:02,611 SAMO drawings. 220 00:18:02,645 --> 00:18:06,211 So when I ran into him, I said you should make art, you know? 221 00:18:06,244 --> 00:18:08,278 You have to, you know? And I gave him some money. 222 00:18:08,311 --> 00:18:11,872 Go get some paper and go to Canal Paint and make some things, 223 00:18:11,896 --> 00:18:15,278 and I'll sell them for you, and you can make some money. 224 00:18:18,344 --> 00:18:20,959 Characteristic of very good artists, it's a 225 00:18:20,984 --> 00:18:24,134 mature, strong hand that can only be from them. 226 00:18:24,159 --> 00:18:29,292 And he had that even when he was 18, 19 years old. 227 00:18:30,444 --> 00:18:31,678 Everybody believed in him. 228 00:18:31,711 --> 00:18:34,810 We all knew that he was a brilliant kid. 229 00:18:34,844 --> 00:18:37,111 He was a star when he was broke. 230 00:18:40,177 --> 00:18:46,578 Elio Fiorucci had this fashion store on 59th Street, and he loved the downtown scene. 231 00:18:46,611 --> 00:18:49,910 And one day, he said, you know, it's so interesting what's going on here. 232 00:18:49,944 --> 00:18:51,877 You kids should make a movie about it. 233 00:18:51,910 --> 00:18:54,249 And so we said, that's a good idea. 234 00:18:58,622 --> 00:19:02,089 It was the story of, like, a young artist who's struggling 235 00:19:02,114 --> 00:19:06,884 to get by in the cool and scary world of Manhattan in '81. 236 00:19:08,211 --> 00:19:12,378 We decided to let him live in our production office. 237 00:19:12,411 --> 00:19:15,177 That was a way of, like, making sure that we could find him. 238 00:19:17,544 --> 00:19:20,089 We bought him the first stretched canvas he ever 239 00:19:20,114 --> 00:19:23,314 had for the purpose of the film, and one day, 240 00:19:23,461 --> 00:19:26,941 uh, we had the big photography corner, and I said, 241 00:19:26,965 --> 00:19:30,375 oh, Jean-Michel, enough of these street things. 242 00:19:31,011 --> 00:19:35,910 I teared a huge piece, and I... we put it up, and he did it. 243 00:19:35,944 --> 00:19:38,177 I don't know how many days it took him. 244 00:19:38,211 --> 00:19:39,544 It was very intricate. 245 00:19:43,765 --> 00:19:48,837 It was when I first saw him draw that I knew he was gonna be famous, you know? 246 00:19:50,745 --> 00:19:55,211 He was working on "Downtown 81" at the time, and he sold his first painting. 247 00:19:58,765 --> 00:20:01,468 Glenn O'Brien had introduced him to to Deborah Harry 248 00:20:01,884 --> 00:20:04,586 and she bought his painting for $200. 249 00:20:04,611 --> 00:20:07,011 And he was thrilled to have $200. 250 00:20:07,044 --> 00:20:11,745 And he came in and asked me to go for dinner, so we went to, um, a 251 00:20:11,769 --> 00:20:16,977 Chinese restaurant on 2nd Avenue, and he said, order whatever you want. 252 00:20:17,011 --> 00:20:22,511 And, you know, the most expensive thing was probably $10.00, but that was a really big deal. 253 00:20:27,043 --> 00:20:30,144 He moved in with me very soon after we met. 254 00:20:30,177 --> 00:20:34,539 Not that I wanted him to, but it just sort of happened. 255 00:20:37,144 --> 00:20:39,511 And I really wanted him to sleep in my bedroom. 256 00:20:39,544 --> 00:20:40,810 He slept in the living room. 257 00:20:40,844 --> 00:20:44,387 It was very, um, sort of innocent. 258 00:20:46,910 --> 00:20:51,144 I wanted him to start working to pay the bills with me, because he was living with me. 259 00:20:51,177 --> 00:20:54,944 So we would get in arguments about it. 260 00:20:54,977 --> 00:20:59,111 And eventually, he went to work with a friend that was an electrician. 261 00:20:59,144 --> 00:21:02,711 I was very proud of him that he was making this effort to work. 262 00:21:02,745 --> 00:21:10,420 And he, um, came home and started to cry and said, I can't do this. 263 00:21:10,445 --> 00:21:14,744 I really want to help you with the rent, but I can't be humiliated in this way. 264 00:21:14,990 --> 00:21:19,140 And we went to this rich Park Avenue lady's apartment, 265 00:21:19,165 --> 00:21:24,292 and she was treating me like a slave, and I can't do this. 266 00:21:24,777 --> 00:21:28,311 So it was... there was something about it that was very moving to me. 267 00:21:28,344 --> 00:21:32,211 And, um, so we agreed that I would work and he would paint. 268 00:21:39,206 --> 00:21:42,111 The Times Square show ended up on the cover of The Village. 269 00:21:42,144 --> 00:21:44,544 Voice as the first radical art show of the '80s. 270 00:21:50,142 --> 00:21:54,183 Anybody literally could have walked up and just said, hey, I'm an artist. And they would let you hang work. 271 00:21:54,208 --> 00:21:56,193 There was over 100 artists. 272 00:21:56,530 --> 00:22:00,457 The Times Square show was the first time that Jean-Michel 273 00:22:00,482 --> 00:22:04,668 participated in an organized real art exhibition. 274 00:22:05,568 --> 00:22:09,134 I actually got Jean-Michel and Keith in the show. 275 00:22:09,211 --> 00:22:12,544 I brought them along with me, and they made a big impact. 276 00:22:22,020 --> 00:22:24,919 He painted in our little apartment. 277 00:22:25,321 --> 00:22:31,553 We didn't have a lot of money, so he would bring home foam rubber, tin, windows, doors. 278 00:22:31,578 --> 00:22:35,578 He would just find things on the street. 279 00:22:35,611 --> 00:22:40,409 No, the first paintings I made were on windows... on windows I found on the street. 280 00:22:40,430 --> 00:22:41,853 I used the window shape as a frame. 281 00:22:41,874 --> 00:22:43,443 You know what I... 282 00:22:43,464 --> 00:22:46,344 just put the paint... the painting on the glass part. 283 00:22:46,378 --> 00:22:49,344 And on doors like I found on the street. 284 00:22:52,278 --> 00:22:54,524 Went up to the apartment he shared with Suzanne. 285 00:22:54,544 --> 00:23:01,611 It was one of the most arresting, stimulating artistic experiences I ever had. 286 00:23:01,645 --> 00:23:04,645 He was very focused with his work. 287 00:23:04,678 --> 00:23:09,604 The refrigerator door had this incredible painting on it. 288 00:23:11,457 --> 00:23:15,775 And then some amazing paintings on windows, and all 289 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,278 these drawings strewn all over the floor on typing paper. 290 00:23:19,311 --> 00:23:21,620 There would be 20 sheets of paper on the floor, 291 00:23:21,644 --> 00:23:23,853 all seemingly half finished pieces of work. 292 00:23:23,877 --> 00:23:27,315 And he would jump from one, walk across five, 293 00:23:27,339 --> 00:23:30,777 literally walk on them, leaving sneaker prints. 294 00:23:30,810 --> 00:23:33,615 We used to make the joke that you could date his work by 295 00:23:33,639 --> 00:23:36,444 the different sneakers that he would wear over the years. 296 00:23:36,478 --> 00:23:41,877 There's no artist who kind of abused his own work physically than Jean-Michel. 297 00:23:41,910 --> 00:23:44,942 He was somebody who liked to have music on 298 00:23:44,966 --> 00:23:48,444 and the television and the big stack of books. 299 00:23:48,478 --> 00:23:52,977 People talk about multitasking, but that was part of the hard wiring of his brain. 300 00:23:56,777 --> 00:24:01,311 Following the Times Square show, Diego wanted to do it his way. 301 00:24:01,344 --> 00:24:04,192 And so he put his own show together, which was the 302 00:24:04,217 --> 00:24:07,869 New York New Wave show at PS1, which was massive. 303 00:24:17,093 --> 00:24:18,713 I was still going with Suzanne Mallouk at the 304 00:24:18,737 --> 00:24:20,653 time, and she was about to throw me out any minute. 305 00:24:20,674 --> 00:24:26,047 And then Diego came through with this show, which was just great, you know. 306 00:24:26,208 --> 00:24:28,375 '81 was the PS1 show. 307 00:24:28,745 --> 00:24:34,311 I was just tired of seeing white walls with white people with white wine, you know. 308 00:24:34,344 --> 00:24:37,366 The opening for that show was the equivalent of like a 309 00:24:37,390 --> 00:24:40,411 blockbuster exhibit at the Metropolitan or the Modern. 310 00:24:40,444 --> 00:24:46,111 People were literally on lined down the block four deep to get into the show. 311 00:24:46,144 --> 00:24:47,311 It was just packed. 312 00:25:04,977 --> 00:25:07,196 Getting people in the art world to pay attention 313 00:25:07,220 --> 00:25:09,344 to his work wasn't that hard, I'll tell you. 314 00:25:09,378 --> 00:25:13,678 I mean, as soon as I started showing his work to anyone, they... they loved it. 315 00:25:42,964 --> 00:25:49,339 After PS1, Jean's star was at the top of the constellation of the new emerging artists. 316 00:26:19,544 --> 00:26:23,115 Annina Nosei connects with him and gives him the 317 00:26:23,139 --> 00:26:27,244 basement of her gallery on Prince Street as a studio. 318 00:26:27,278 --> 00:26:30,463 And it was a basement, but it was a nice basement with 319 00:26:30,487 --> 00:26:34,228 a skylight and gallery assistants fawning over him. 320 00:27:43,111 --> 00:27:46,671 This is a very crucial period for Jean-Michel, because this is the 321 00:27:46,696 --> 00:27:52,327 transition period from working on the street to working in a real studio. 322 00:27:53,745 --> 00:27:57,245 Very quickly thereafter, he got his first show at Annina Nosei. 323 00:28:11,144 --> 00:28:15,910 His first real public exhibition is at Annina Nosei. 324 00:28:15,944 --> 00:28:17,177 Which was a hit. 325 00:28:22,547 --> 00:28:26,556 And he made $200,000, maybe more. 326 00:28:26,581 --> 00:28:30,317 Everything sold in one night. 327 00:28:32,944 --> 00:28:37,011 One day there was a knock at the door, and Jean-Michel is naked. 328 00:28:37,325 --> 00:28:41,244 And he got up and answered the door, stark naked, and it was Rene Ricard. 329 00:28:41,278 --> 00:28:45,185 And he was coming to interview him for Art Form. 330 00:28:46,378 --> 00:28:50,344 My first Art Form cover story was about Julian Schnabel. 331 00:28:50,378 --> 00:28:54,921 And I knew that the next person I wrote about had to be 332 00:28:54,945 --> 00:28:59,910 totally unknown, had to be terribly young, very ambitious. 333 00:29:00,332 --> 00:29:04,531 I wanted to latch on to a career that I could watch and 334 00:29:04,555 --> 00:29:09,378 write about for a long time, like I had with Julian Schnabel. 335 00:29:09,411 --> 00:29:13,583 That piece, The Radiant Child, was very involved 336 00:29:13,607 --> 00:29:16,567 in helping Jean-Michel in his early career. 337 00:29:17,067 --> 00:29:18,634 There was an article in Art Form. 338 00:29:18,659 --> 00:29:20,359 - Rene Ricard. - Rene Ricard. 339 00:29:20,384 --> 00:29:23,010 The second I saw his work, I got very excited. 340 00:29:24,764 --> 00:29:28,130 He actually came up to talk about the painting that we had purchased. 341 00:29:28,352 --> 00:29:31,189 He drew our attention to the snake in the corner. 342 00:29:31,278 --> 00:29:34,478 It as very well done. 343 00:29:34,511 --> 00:29:38,344 And he was very, very proud of it. 344 00:29:38,378 --> 00:29:41,977 Do you ever comply with the requests to describe your work? 345 00:29:42,698 --> 00:29:45,032 I never know how to really describe it except maybe, 346 00:29:45,056 --> 00:29:47,197 I don't know. I don't know how to describe my work. 347 00:29:47,222 --> 00:29:51,255 Do you feel that's important to you, though, not to be able to describe it? 348 00:29:51,732 --> 00:29:55,086 It's I guess asking so how does your horn sound, you know? 349 00:29:55,111 --> 00:29:56,411 I mean, you don't really... 350 00:29:56,444 --> 00:30:00,712 I don't think he could really tell you, you know, why he played, you 351 00:30:00,736 --> 00:30:05,578 know... why he plays this at this point in the music, or, you know, just... 352 00:30:05,611 --> 00:30:09,433 you're sort of on automatic, you know, most of the time. 353 00:30:11,044 --> 00:30:15,977 Has anybody ever written anything about your work that you think is on the ball? 354 00:30:16,011 --> 00:30:19,000 Probably Robert Farris Thompson I thought wrote the best thing. 355 00:30:19,021 --> 00:30:23,411 The guy that wrote "Flash of the Spirit," which is probably the best book I ever read on African art. 356 00:30:23,444 --> 00:30:24,611 One of the best. 357 00:30:31,211 --> 00:30:34,991 He had this unique ability to access almost 358 00:30:35,016 --> 00:30:37,869 everything that was in his mind and memory bank, 359 00:30:37,893 --> 00:30:41,174 channel it through his body, and put it right 360 00:30:41,198 --> 00:30:44,478 there on that rectangle of campus or paper. 361 00:31:10,007 --> 00:31:11,007 Jean... 362 00:31:11,032 --> 00:31:15,090 I don't know how he got his knowledge, but he knew so much. 363 00:31:38,278 --> 00:31:40,633 So what's the first artist work that you remember 364 00:31:40,657 --> 00:31:43,011 seeing that left a really strong impression on you? 365 00:31:43,044 --> 00:31:47,344 Probably seeing the "Guernica" was probably my favorite thing when I was a kid. 366 00:31:55,544 --> 00:31:58,299 I remember my mother drawing stuff out of the Bible like 367 00:31:58,323 --> 00:32:00,977 Samson breaking the temple down and stuff like this. 368 00:32:01,011 --> 00:32:02,077 Was she a good artist? 369 00:32:02,111 --> 00:32:03,278 Pretty good. 370 00:32:08,044 --> 00:32:10,910 His father was fairly affluent, middle class. 371 00:32:10,944 --> 00:32:12,144 An accountant. 372 00:32:12,177 --> 00:32:15,244 He dressed in like blue blazers with brass buttons. 373 00:32:26,511 --> 00:32:28,411 They lived on Pacific Street. 374 00:32:28,444 --> 00:32:30,378 They owned the whole building. 375 00:32:30,411 --> 00:32:32,544 So then you started doing your own little drawings? 376 00:32:32,578 --> 00:32:35,348 I thought I wanted to be a cartoonist when I was younger, and 377 00:32:35,372 --> 00:32:38,373 then I changed to painting when I was about, you know, 15 or so. 378 00:32:40,844 --> 00:32:43,311 So you're like the black sheep of the family? 379 00:32:43,344 --> 00:32:44,944 Well, I was until I started doing well. 380 00:32:50,961 --> 00:32:53,795 One of the interesting things about this work is the 381 00:32:53,819 --> 00:32:56,653 way it shoots references to other artists he admired. 382 00:32:56,678 --> 00:32:59,544 The work is full of references to Leonardo da Vinci. 383 00:32:59,578 --> 00:33:00,745 He wasn't unambitious. 384 00:33:00,844 --> 00:33:03,077 Nobody could accuse Basquiat of that. 385 00:33:19,045 --> 00:33:25,279 He's talking to the great history of painting that came before him, and he's very much aware of it. 386 00:33:25,711 --> 00:33:27,544 And that's the context of his work. 387 00:33:27,578 --> 00:33:28,877 He's talking to Twombly. 388 00:33:28,910 --> 00:33:30,044 He's talking to de Kooning. 389 00:33:30,077 --> 00:33:31,777 He's talking to Pollock. 390 00:33:35,803 --> 00:33:38,970 I always think of him as a great artist a long time. 391 00:33:38,995 --> 00:33:43,828 I put him in the highest place like Van Gogh, like Picasso. 392 00:33:43,877 --> 00:33:48,910 There's also the important fact that he's not limiting himself to visual artists as mentors. 393 00:34:11,578 --> 00:34:12,745 What books do you like? 394 00:34:12,777 --> 00:34:18,544 Major ones that, you know, had facts in them or, I guess, Mark Twain. 395 00:34:18,578 --> 00:34:20,111 I like Mark Twain books a lot. 396 00:34:20,144 --> 00:34:23,977 You were reading William Burroughs when you were out here the last time. 397 00:34:24,011 --> 00:34:25,890 I was gonna say Burroughs, but I thought I'd be... 398 00:34:25,910 --> 00:34:27,877 I'd sound too young, because everybody reads. 399 00:34:27,910 --> 00:34:29,077 Burroughs all the time. 400 00:34:29,111 --> 00:34:31,278 But he's my favorite living author, definitely. 401 00:34:32,077 --> 00:34:38,177 The work owes a lot to the influence of William Burroughs and John Giorno. 402 00:34:38,595 --> 00:34:40,711 That school of poetry. 403 00:34:40,745 --> 00:34:43,564 Jean-Michel adored William. I mean, he was a great fan. 404 00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:48,476 The Burroughs cut up technique of slicing up, of collaging things 405 00:34:48,500 --> 00:34:53,386 was a very important part of the structure of Jean-Michel's work. 406 00:34:53,411 --> 00:34:56,177 William Burroughs he got from the surrealists. 407 00:34:56,211 --> 00:35:00,877 This idea of cutting up like a page of your own text, written on a typewriter paper. 408 00:35:00,910 --> 00:35:04,311 You'd cut it in four of rive places and then rearrange them. 409 00:35:04,344 --> 00:35:07,810 And when you read across, and amazing images arise. 410 00:35:07,844 --> 00:35:11,694 And sort of this is another concept of how you could perceive it of wisdom 411 00:35:11,718 --> 00:35:15,568 arising, because a lot of it is gibberish, you know, when you're reading. 412 00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:20,044 But then all of a sudden a clear line goes across, and that's profoundly profound. 413 00:35:21,144 --> 00:35:24,011 So that's the essence of the cut up. 414 00:35:24,044 --> 00:35:29,333 And then the influence of John Cage, vanguard jazz, Miles 415 00:35:29,357 --> 00:35:34,645 Davis, Coltrane, that all of these sounds are interesting. 416 00:35:34,678 --> 00:35:38,666 He's putting in Charlie Parker and Miles Davis and the whole 417 00:35:38,690 --> 00:35:42,678 roster of jazz heroes who he can assimilate into his pantheon. 418 00:35:42,711 --> 00:35:44,478 What music do you like? 419 00:35:44,511 --> 00:35:48,678 Bebop is my favorite music, but I don't listen to it all the time. 420 00:35:48,711 --> 00:35:52,877 I listen... I listen to everything, but I'd have to say bebop is my favorite. 421 00:35:52,910 --> 00:35:56,977 He had a bebop aesthetic in terms of what he put visually on the page. 422 00:35:58,211 --> 00:36:01,699 Bebop broke down melody and it broke down harmonies in ways that hadn't 423 00:36:01,723 --> 00:36:05,991 been done before, thus creating another vocabulary for how to play jazz. 424 00:36:12,645 --> 00:36:16,511 His collage technique was to take things and blow them up. 425 00:36:16,544 --> 00:36:21,645 He had the expression boom for real, an explosion, and then you end up with fragments. 426 00:36:21,678 --> 00:36:24,995 Rather than the cubist or post cubist way of building 427 00:36:25,019 --> 00:36:28,144 sections, patching things together or quiltwork. 428 00:36:28,177 --> 00:36:30,645 Jean-Michel's work was not about a quilt. 429 00:36:30,678 --> 00:36:35,944 It was about a kind of galaxy of reality that's been, again, exploded. 430 00:36:35,977 --> 00:36:37,111 So everything's equal. 431 00:36:55,044 --> 00:36:58,777 It was a big loft, and it was pretty fancy. 432 00:36:58,810 --> 00:37:03,324 I was going over there three, four nights a week, and there was a lot of other people that were always coming over. 433 00:37:03,344 --> 00:37:05,511 It was really an incredible scene. 434 00:37:05,544 --> 00:37:12,211 People who knew Jean-Michel saw him hanging out, socially active, late into the night. 435 00:37:12,244 --> 00:37:14,745 So the question is, when did he do the work? 436 00:37:14,777 --> 00:37:19,344 There is an astonishing amount of work. 437 00:37:19,378 --> 00:37:23,944 He had an incredible work ethic, incredible focus. 438 00:37:23,977 --> 00:37:27,844 If people were over, he didn't just sit and visit. 439 00:37:27,877 --> 00:37:32,286 He was constantly painting, constantly getting inspiration from 440 00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:37,503 something someone had just said or something that was on the television. 441 00:37:38,331 --> 00:37:41,478 I don't know. I came the first day, and I basically never left for months. 442 00:37:41,511 --> 00:37:43,645 And I would go home, and he would call up and ask me 443 00:37:43,669 --> 00:37:45,802 to come back, because he wanted to get to work again. 444 00:37:45,823 --> 00:37:47,611 So basically it was 24 hours. 445 00:37:47,645 --> 00:37:51,411 It was paintings that he came up with his assistant Steve. 446 00:37:51,444 --> 00:37:56,799 Torton, where the... the corners were sticks sticking out like some person 447 00:37:56,823 --> 00:38:02,177 wrapped these things up and just make it quickly into a framed canvas or... 448 00:38:02,211 --> 00:38:04,876 Basically, he showed me a pile of wood... molding 449 00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:08,011 wood, like the little curly moldings, very flimsy wood. 450 00:38:08,044 --> 00:38:10,905 A window chain, carpet tacks, canvas, and he 451 00:38:10,929 --> 00:38:14,124 asked me if I could make a stretcher out of it. 452 00:38:14,144 --> 00:38:17,910 So that is basically what gave birth to those. 453 00:38:17,944 --> 00:38:19,810 Terrific set of paintings. 454 00:38:19,844 --> 00:38:24,544 I mean, we bought a couple, but we should've bought every single one. 455 00:38:24,578 --> 00:38:26,964 When I moved into the Crosby Street loft, for a 456 00:38:26,988 --> 00:38:29,844 while, collectors would come over to look at the work. 457 00:38:29,877 --> 00:38:34,541 And if he didn't like them... you know, if somebody said I want a painting 458 00:38:34,565 --> 00:38:39,678 with shades of red in it to match my couch, he would become absolutely furious. 459 00:38:39,711 --> 00:38:41,011 He would throw them out. 460 00:38:41,044 --> 00:38:46,316 He would often pour food on their heads from outside the window 461 00:38:46,340 --> 00:38:51,063 like cereal or water or milk out the window as they were leaving. 462 00:38:51,184 --> 00:38:54,620 Jean-Michel was famously independent of mind. 463 00:38:54,645 --> 00:38:58,444 No one ever told Jean-Michel Basquiat what to do and what not to do. 464 00:38:58,478 --> 00:39:01,444 He did whatever he wanted to do. 465 00:39:01,478 --> 00:39:05,424 It turned our world into a sports... like a tennis thing, where you had your ranking. 466 00:39:05,444 --> 00:39:07,618 You know, boxing. All those metaphors with sports. 467 00:39:07,639 --> 00:39:09,810 He had no qualms about being ambitious. 468 00:39:09,844 --> 00:39:13,332 He was very anxious to be number one, and he was very concerned 469 00:39:13,356 --> 00:39:16,844 that when he wasn't number one, he was on his way up the ladder. 470 00:39:16,869 --> 00:39:21,542 There was a young guy who was painting, and I should see him, and he knew, you know, different people that I knew. 471 00:39:21,567 --> 00:39:25,134 So I went down, and... and I liked him. 472 00:39:25,578 --> 00:39:29,011 And at the same time, he was very competitive. 473 00:39:29,044 --> 00:39:32,259 One day at Mr. Chow, he said something to me, because 474 00:39:32,283 --> 00:39:35,311 he always talked about us having a boxing match. 475 00:39:35,344 --> 00:39:37,749 I said, you know, you're gonna get the boxing match 476 00:39:37,773 --> 00:39:40,177 that you've been asking for if you don't cool it. 477 00:39:55,535 --> 00:40:01,301 Which is a fabulous way to start a... you know, a friendship and a business relationship. 478 00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:04,730 And it was one of the... you know, as an art dealer, I gotta say it was 479 00:40:04,755 --> 00:40:08,176 one of the most exciting things that have happened in my business career. 480 00:40:10,311 --> 00:40:14,777 I was in the waiting area at Spago's on Sunset waiting to... 481 00:40:14,810 --> 00:40:17,478 to get in at like 10:00 at night. 482 00:40:17,511 --> 00:40:23,977 And Jean-Michel walked in with Rammellzee and Fab 5 Freddy, all behind Larry Gagosian. 483 00:40:24,011 --> 00:40:27,311 And the restaurant came to a complete silence. 484 00:40:27,344 --> 00:40:35,444 I mean, these three young black men, all more handsome than the next, and just, you know, who... 485 00:40:35,478 --> 00:40:40,252 I don't know if people thought that they were in front of the newest Hollywood stars 486 00:40:40,276 --> 00:40:44,877 or were about to get robbed, but at the restaurant just came to a dead silence. 487 00:40:44,910 --> 00:40:46,511 It was fantastic. 488 00:40:46,544 --> 00:40:50,675 First time I met Jean-Michel Basquiat is I was working in an art gallery while 489 00:40:50,699 --> 00:40:54,777 I was going to film school, and he came in while we were having an opening. 490 00:40:54,810 --> 00:41:00,378 And he had a cassette with him, and he asked me if I had any way to play it. 491 00:41:00,411 --> 00:41:03,596 I took him to the back room, and I had a boombox back there. 492 00:41:03,621 --> 00:41:07,011 And in like five minutes, he turned the back office into a 493 00:41:07,044 --> 00:41:08,444 VIP dance area. 494 00:41:16,011 --> 00:41:18,594 It was just a crazy opening. 495 00:41:18,703 --> 00:41:19,765 Everybody came. 496 00:41:19,965 --> 00:41:22,553 Like, by that time, the word had kind of spread. 497 00:41:22,578 --> 00:41:25,745 This guy was making, you know, incredibly exciting, powerful work. 498 00:41:25,777 --> 00:41:27,678 20 years old or whatever. 499 00:41:27,711 --> 00:41:29,511 I went to the show at Gagosian. 500 00:41:29,544 --> 00:41:31,678 Gallery, and it was huge. 501 00:41:31,711 --> 00:41:35,810 We were utterly caught off guard by the energy and the content of the work. 502 00:41:35,844 --> 00:41:36,977 He was a phenomenon. 503 00:41:48,177 --> 00:41:53,344 It was extremely well received by players in LA, the Hollywood crew. 504 00:41:53,378 --> 00:41:56,977 My recollection was they were all basically sold by the time of the opening. 505 00:42:00,992 --> 00:42:04,092 He left Annina Nosei after just a year. 506 00:42:04,344 --> 00:42:06,611 He called me up and I said, I'll introduce you to Bruno. 507 00:42:06,645 --> 00:42:10,198 Bischofberger, who had shown an interest to me before. 508 00:43:34,378 --> 00:43:37,037 Things started to change very quickly thereafter. 509 00:43:37,062 --> 00:43:39,295 He was rapidly becoming a millionaire. 510 00:43:43,877 --> 00:43:45,444 He was a guest at the time. 511 00:43:45,469 --> 00:43:48,374 We would go out to dinner, we'd go back to the 512 00:43:48,407 --> 00:43:51,311 studio, and he's in this expensive Armani suit. 513 00:43:51,344 --> 00:43:54,727 He sees some painting, and he feels compelled to 514 00:43:54,751 --> 00:43:58,194 change it, and he's painting there in his Armani suit. 515 00:43:59,151 --> 00:44:01,417 He was in a loft on Crosby Street. 516 00:44:01,668 --> 00:44:03,777 There would be like piles of money all over the place. 517 00:44:03,810 --> 00:44:07,311 He was very young, and he had never had this much money. 518 00:44:07,344 --> 00:44:10,777 And I... I think it was very awkward for him. 519 00:44:11,127 --> 00:44:12,938 Do you spend it? Do you save it? 520 00:44:12,963 --> 00:44:16,324 He had bought two new color televisions and a TAC 521 00:44:16,348 --> 00:44:20,130 recording machine, and he didn't have a bank account. 522 00:44:20,411 --> 00:44:25,109 He would often hide the money around the house, so when I would be cleaning up, I would 523 00:44:25,133 --> 00:44:29,777 find thousands of dollars under the cushions of the couch or in the pages of a book. 524 00:44:29,810 --> 00:44:32,578 That's the way he was living, and he was living high. 525 00:44:32,611 --> 00:44:34,395 And whenever I would go over to visit, there 526 00:44:34,419 --> 00:44:36,411 was always 20 people hanging around over there. 527 00:44:36,444 --> 00:44:38,044 They were smoking pot. 528 00:44:38,077 --> 00:44:41,711 There were tons of bottles of very expensive wine. 529 00:44:41,745 --> 00:44:44,054 Gourmet, gourmet, gourmet delights in the 530 00:44:44,078 --> 00:44:46,910 refrigerator all the time that just go to waste. 531 00:44:46,944 --> 00:44:49,777 He was able to pay for the party for a while. 532 00:44:49,810 --> 00:44:54,378 But that money will kill you if you don't know to deal with it, you know? 533 00:44:54,411 --> 00:44:56,742 I was in charge of the production, making sure the right 534 00:44:56,766 --> 00:44:59,311 food was served to the right people and the limo was there. 535 00:44:59,344 --> 00:45:01,645 Entertaining the buyers, that was my job. 536 00:45:01,678 --> 00:45:05,912 To produce his party. And that was a party. 537 00:45:05,933 --> 00:45:08,556 So what was your first reaction when you 538 00:45:08,580 --> 00:45:11,810 started selling work and making a little money? 539 00:45:11,844 --> 00:45:14,011 I don't know. 540 00:45:14,044 --> 00:45:17,578 Overconfidence, super confidence. 541 00:45:18,308 --> 00:45:23,411 I was just happy that I was able to stick it out and then, you know, and then get things I wanted, you know? Like, after... 542 00:45:26,678 --> 00:45:29,040 I felt like I... like I was right, you know what I mean? 543 00:45:30,478 --> 00:45:32,910 The first really major press about Jean-Michel 544 00:45:32,934 --> 00:45:36,015 was a story in the New York Times Magazine. 545 00:45:42,877 --> 00:45:48,244 For a young African American fine artist, it was incredible. 546 00:45:48,278 --> 00:45:51,511 It was literally rock star status. 547 00:45:51,544 --> 00:45:54,977 There's this incredible photograph of him on the cover. 548 00:45:55,011 --> 00:45:58,318 You know, that's really about Jean-Michel as a person, as a phenomenon. 549 00:45:58,343 --> 00:46:02,509 And so he's propelled into the bigger world of culture. 550 00:46:03,478 --> 00:46:06,444 Jean-Michel become gigantic celebrity. 551 00:46:06,478 --> 00:46:14,044 Famous, wealthy, hanging out with celebrities, being praised, lavish gifts and money. 552 00:46:14,069 --> 00:46:15,950 Everybody wanted a piece of him. 553 00:46:17,877 --> 00:46:20,944 It seems to me of all the painters who've risen, you're 554 00:46:20,968 --> 00:46:24,378 the one who gets singled out as this kind of a personality. 555 00:46:24,411 --> 00:46:25,991 But at the same time, I sort of enjoy... 556 00:46:26,011 --> 00:46:28,448 I enjoy the... I enjoy that they think I'm a bad boy, like a threat. 557 00:46:28,473 --> 00:46:29,940 Yeah. 558 00:46:30,478 --> 00:46:34,077 The whole bevy came into the picture. 559 00:46:34,111 --> 00:46:37,649 And I remember saying to him, I want you to understand what 560 00:46:37,673 --> 00:46:41,211 it feels like to be famous, so go and do what you have to do. 561 00:46:41,244 --> 00:46:44,611 So it was very hard for me, very hard. 562 00:46:44,645 --> 00:46:48,476 He used to often call me Venus in the paintings, and when he was having 563 00:46:48,501 --> 00:46:52,972 an affair with Madonna, he painted a painting of me beating up Madonna. 564 00:46:54,265 --> 00:46:56,977 We did get in a fight at the Roxy. 565 00:46:57,386 --> 00:46:58,552 I'm embarrassed of that. 566 00:47:00,625 --> 00:47:02,649 He was an intense center of a cult. 567 00:47:02,674 --> 00:47:05,468 He was a cult figure of huge proportions. 568 00:47:08,044 --> 00:47:12,044 Nobody knows what it's like if you're two painters in that situation. 569 00:47:12,077 --> 00:47:14,244 Nobody else was in that situation with him. 570 00:47:14,278 --> 00:47:16,296 They had a different kind of... you know, 571 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,745 whether it was Fab 5 Freddy or all different... 572 00:47:18,777 --> 00:47:21,199 they had a different kind of... you know, I wasn't 573 00:47:21,223 --> 00:47:23,645 his peer in that, since I was an older guy to him. 574 00:47:23,678 --> 00:47:25,478 And he always wanted to know what I thought. 575 00:47:25,511 --> 00:47:27,011 So the reason why I made the movie... 576 00:47:27,044 --> 00:47:28,729 I wanted to tell him what I thought. 577 00:47:28,754 --> 00:47:30,455 I thought I owed it to him. 578 00:47:30,711 --> 00:47:32,444 $10.00 a piece. $10.00. 579 00:47:32,478 --> 00:47:35,378 Oh, gee. Didn't work very much on these. 580 00:47:35,411 --> 00:47:37,777 I can give you like $5.00. 581 00:47:38,013 --> 00:47:39,614 Bruno, can I borrow some money? 582 00:48:22,602 --> 00:48:26,065 Andy Warhol, like most people, was very seduced and enamored 583 00:48:26,089 --> 00:48:29,435 by Jean-Michel, and I think probably had a crush on him. 584 00:48:29,844 --> 00:48:33,144 It was such a big thing for Jean to become that close with Andy. 585 00:48:33,177 --> 00:48:34,511 But he was the master of the game. 586 00:48:34,544 --> 00:48:39,011 It's great to be that tight with somebody that we all looked up to in that way. 587 00:48:43,411 --> 00:48:44,810 Are we rolling? 588 00:48:44,844 --> 00:48:47,344 We're rolling? 589 00:48:47,378 --> 00:48:50,478 Oh, and this is my best... 590 00:48:50,511 --> 00:48:52,935 I mean, no, not the richest artist in the world, 591 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,032 Jean-Michel. Jean-Michel, what's your last name? 592 00:48:57,063 --> 00:48:58,479 What's your last name, sweetheart? 593 00:48:58,504 --> 00:49:00,382 Basquiat. 594 00:49:00,953 --> 00:49:04,586 Jean-Michel wanted to be an artist in the great galleries. 595 00:49:04,611 --> 00:49:07,112 Mary Boone, Leo Castelli. 596 00:49:07,402 --> 00:49:12,202 But he was not an artist that was embraced by the art world. 597 00:49:12,694 --> 00:49:18,424 You know, he was considered kind of an artist that could be on the cover of the New 598 00:49:18,448 --> 00:49:24,177 York Times Magazine section, because there was a lot of underground feel to the work. 599 00:49:24,211 --> 00:49:29,066 But I think there were still a lot of people in our world who didn't 600 00:49:29,090 --> 00:49:33,944 put him on the same level as Schnabel and Salle and people like that. 601 00:49:33,977 --> 00:49:37,789 I guess he saw Julian Schnabel, and I think they all had big 602 00:49:37,813 --> 00:49:43,022 shows at the Whitney, and he didn't have that kind of recognition. 603 00:50:07,645 --> 00:50:12,745 The kind of art that was esteemed in the mid-1970s... 604 00:50:12,777 --> 00:50:14,578 minimalism, conceptualism... 605 00:50:14,611 --> 00:50:19,044 didn't really allow for much innovation. 606 00:50:19,391 --> 00:50:24,934 If you just kept pushing minimal painting and sculpture, you ended up with something academic. 607 00:50:27,032 --> 00:50:30,444 The art was mostly minimal when I came up, and it... it sort of confused me a little bit. 608 00:50:30,469 --> 00:50:32,951 I thought it divided people a little bit. 609 00:50:33,944 --> 00:50:36,378 It alienated most... most people from art, you know? 610 00:50:36,411 --> 00:50:38,056 Uh-huh. 611 00:50:39,077 --> 00:50:42,349 He was really a pioneer in neo-expressionism, and so he 612 00:50:42,373 --> 00:50:45,645 was breaking boundaries just by the nature of the work. 613 00:50:45,678 --> 00:50:48,444 I think people really misunderstood. 614 00:50:48,469 --> 00:50:52,195 At one point, he did a drawing as big as this painting 615 00:50:52,219 --> 00:50:56,286 here, and he wanted it to go to a New York museum. 616 00:50:56,311 --> 00:50:58,312 I said, OK, I'll donate it. 617 00:50:58,337 --> 00:51:01,708 We offered it to MOMA, and the Museum of Modern Art 618 00:51:01,732 --> 00:51:05,103 came back and said, well, he isn't worth the space. 619 00:51:05,278 --> 00:51:10,131 And then we tried the Whitney, and they'd rejected it also. 620 00:51:13,260 --> 00:51:17,266 When you first see brand new work, chances are if 621 00:51:17,291 --> 00:51:21,540 it's really significant, it will be uncomfortable 622 00:51:21,565 --> 00:51:25,819 to somebody like myself, because I am so immersed 623 00:51:25,843 --> 00:51:29,652 in what painting up until now looked like. 624 00:51:30,044 --> 00:51:35,500 And with Basquiat, many art professionals had skepticism about what he was doing 625 00:51:35,524 --> 00:51:40,910 because the paintings didn't necessarily fit their idea of a museum painting. 626 00:51:40,944 --> 00:51:43,164 And yet, of course, that's exactly what's 627 00:51:43,188 --> 00:51:46,077 necessary in order to create the art of the future. 628 00:51:50,910 --> 00:51:52,150 How do you... how do you work? 629 00:51:52,177 --> 00:51:55,670 Do you just start with a blank canvas and just start painting? 630 00:51:55,691 --> 00:51:59,235 I usually put a lot down on it, and then... then I take a lot away. 631 00:51:59,256 --> 00:52:02,152 And then I put some more down, and I take some more away, you know? 632 00:52:02,173 --> 00:52:04,258 So it's like a constant editing process, usually. 633 00:52:04,278 --> 00:52:06,877 What... what do people like in your work that you are... 634 00:52:06,910 --> 00:52:08,144 that you... 635 00:52:08,177 --> 00:52:10,011 Got me. 636 00:52:10,044 --> 00:52:15,378 There's something very direct about Jean-Michel's work that appeals to everyone. 637 00:52:15,411 --> 00:52:19,344 It doesn't just appeal to the intellectual, but it does appeal to the intellectual. 638 00:52:28,777 --> 00:52:32,930 He appealed to a lot of people who didn't have a great knowledge 639 00:52:32,954 --> 00:52:36,777 of art history, but just looked at the work and liked it. 640 00:52:36,810 --> 00:52:37,877 He wasn't schooled. 641 00:52:37,910 --> 00:52:40,511 It was never something calculated. 642 00:52:40,544 --> 00:52:43,515 That's not to say that he didn't look very closely at what he was 643 00:52:43,539 --> 00:52:46,510 doing, but it wasn't something that he was following some pattern. 644 00:52:46,531 --> 00:52:48,659 It was an instinct. He had incredible instinct. 645 00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:52,944 You know, writing the word tar five times, crossing it out four times. 646 00:52:52,977 --> 00:52:54,844 He was really a once in a generation talent. 647 00:53:02,877 --> 00:53:08,389 And he had a way of making words pictorial and making them part of a picture. 648 00:53:22,117 --> 00:53:26,184 Anybody who has eyes, they can see that he's channeling his inner child. 649 00:53:26,311 --> 00:53:29,674 What's your... what's your earliest, most vivid childhood memory? 650 00:53:32,969 --> 00:53:34,977 Probably getting hit by a car, I guess. 651 00:53:35,599 --> 00:53:36,611 How did that happen? 652 00:53:36,645 --> 00:53:38,011 I was playing in the street. 653 00:53:38,044 --> 00:53:39,244 How old were you? 654 00:53:39,278 --> 00:53:41,910 I was seven. Seven or eight years old. 655 00:53:41,944 --> 00:53:44,227 And were you... what were you thinking when it happened? 656 00:53:44,248 --> 00:53:47,077 Did you think, this is it? 657 00:53:47,111 --> 00:53:48,769 It seemed very dreamlike, seeing the car. 658 00:53:48,790 --> 00:53:53,102 I mean, it was just like in the movies, when they slow it down, you know? 659 00:53:53,123 --> 00:53:55,646 When... when a car is coming at you, it was just like that. 660 00:53:56,097 --> 00:53:59,910 And did they like, take you to the hospital and the whole thing? 661 00:53:59,944 --> 00:54:01,642 Yeah, yeah. I had operations and stuff. 662 00:54:01,663 --> 00:54:02,830 The whole business. 663 00:54:18,278 --> 00:54:21,810 Like certain things that happen to you in psychology, you're arrested in time. 664 00:54:21,844 --> 00:54:28,611 And he consciously and intentionally took that idea as a painter and ran with it. 665 00:54:28,645 --> 00:54:30,711 I'm going to return to that time. 666 00:54:30,745 --> 00:54:34,478 I'm gonna hold my instrument in a way that a child would. 667 00:54:34,511 --> 00:54:37,611 I'm going to draw the way a child does. 668 00:54:54,444 --> 00:54:58,810 He was also the most advanced contemporary mind. 669 00:54:58,844 --> 00:54:59,977 He was both creatures. 670 00:55:05,144 --> 00:55:09,714 So I understand now that you hobnob with the hobnobs. 671 00:55:11,011 --> 00:55:15,296 And you go to this club called Area. Is that true? 672 00:55:15,321 --> 00:55:16,144 Yeah, yeah. 673 00:55:16,177 --> 00:55:18,645 When you get to Area, there's a lot of people outside. 674 00:55:18,678 --> 00:55:20,711 It's a disco. It's a gallery. 675 00:55:20,745 --> 00:55:23,344 And then there's a lot of pretty people there. It's big. 676 00:55:23,378 --> 00:55:25,077 It's a big, big, big place, and it's... 677 00:55:25,111 --> 00:55:26,544 it's hard to get in. 678 00:55:26,578 --> 00:55:28,977 But I never had a hard time getting in. 679 00:55:29,011 --> 00:55:31,411 But... but I've heard it was hard to get in. 680 00:55:31,444 --> 00:55:36,805 I noticed quite a bit of a change in Jean when he really started hanging out with Andy. 681 00:55:41,044 --> 00:55:44,378 Jean became a little bit out of touch with the old school fellas. 682 00:55:44,411 --> 00:55:48,069 I really missed the old Jean a lot, because I didn't want to call him, 683 00:55:48,093 --> 00:55:51,645 because I knew that I was going to get this indifference from him. 684 00:55:51,678 --> 00:55:54,402 And then I'd go to his art openings and I'd see him 685 00:55:54,426 --> 00:55:57,478 hanging out in the corner with a whole different crowd. 686 00:55:57,511 --> 00:55:59,919 People that would ignore me. 687 00:55:59,944 --> 00:56:04,265 Andy was kind of in love with Jean-Michel, and what's it like being a woman with 688 00:56:04,289 --> 00:56:09,211 a homosexual man and a straight men and being the third wheel in a relationship? 689 00:56:09,236 --> 00:56:10,936 That's what it was like. 690 00:56:11,077 --> 00:56:12,910 I didn't visit him as much. 691 00:56:12,944 --> 00:56:15,944 And I just really felt, well, you know, I don't really belong there. 692 00:56:19,678 --> 00:56:22,782 As he became such a star in New York, I think it 693 00:56:22,806 --> 00:56:25,910 became harder for him to work in New York City. 694 00:56:25,944 --> 00:56:29,449 Around that time, he realized that he really did like Los Angeles, 695 00:56:29,473 --> 00:56:32,977 and I think he also realized he could get a lot of work done here. 696 00:56:33,011 --> 00:56:38,144 The Sollares rented a studio for him in Venice, which he had for about a year and a half. 697 00:56:38,177 --> 00:56:41,272 And he made quite a lot of art in that studio. 698 00:56:43,311 --> 00:56:44,466 I used to love watching him paint. 699 00:56:44,491 --> 00:56:46,638 He didn't mind. I could sit there and watch him paint. 700 00:56:46,828 --> 00:56:48,740 And it was just beautiful the way he painted. 701 00:56:49,159 --> 00:56:52,126 I mean, it was just like, you know, fast and elegant and... 702 00:57:07,544 --> 00:57:11,578 There was a whole group of people out here that he felt really comfortable with. 703 00:57:11,611 --> 00:57:15,618 I started just hanging out with him and filming him painting, and I probably filmed 704 00:57:15,642 --> 00:57:19,452 him over two or three years just hanging out in the studio painting with him. 705 00:57:19,478 --> 00:57:25,385 What Jean would to do is he would go out at night, and then he would come home 706 00:57:25,409 --> 00:57:31,777 and basically lock himself in for two, three days, just paint and paint and paint. 707 00:57:31,810 --> 00:57:33,678 So do you have a specific method of working? 708 00:57:33,711 --> 00:57:35,944 Do you have certain hours that you always work? 709 00:57:35,977 --> 00:57:38,211 I just have to... I wish they'd find a television. 710 00:57:38,244 --> 00:57:40,764 I have to have some source material around me, you know, to work off. 711 00:57:40,789 --> 00:57:42,056 Like what? 712 00:57:42,478 --> 00:57:44,678 I don't know. You know, magazines, textbooks. 713 00:57:44,711 --> 00:57:47,810 You don't mind having a lot of people around, while you're painting, do you? 714 00:57:47,844 --> 00:57:51,010 I've discovered that I think I'd rather work alone more than anything, you know? 715 00:57:51,031 --> 00:57:54,059 I used to have assistants a lot around me, and then on days when 716 00:57:54,083 --> 00:57:57,111 they wouldn't come, I would be a lot more productive, you know? 717 00:57:57,144 --> 00:58:00,685 He was going out a lot, and he was under a lot of pressure to paint, 718 00:58:00,709 --> 00:58:04,144 because he owed paintings to his art collectors and art dealers. 719 00:58:04,177 --> 00:58:07,879 And each painting that he did had to be a masterpiece, because 720 00:58:07,903 --> 00:58:11,544 now he was being criticized in the international art world. 721 00:58:11,578 --> 00:58:14,932 I think it was getting harder and harder for him to go back and forth 722 00:58:14,956 --> 00:58:18,211 from being an adventurous 20-year-old to being a serious painter. 723 00:58:25,137 --> 00:58:28,411 He told me that he was starting to use heroin at that point. 724 00:58:28,444 --> 00:58:32,044 He chose to use these drugs in order to concentrate, you know? 725 00:58:33,059 --> 00:58:37,311 You know, I prefer a cup of coffee myself, but. 726 00:58:37,344 --> 00:58:38,944 Put yourself in the position. 727 00:58:38,977 --> 00:58:45,157 Here is this guy that is 20, 21, 22, you know, living on the street. 728 00:58:45,182 --> 00:58:50,486 And within the course of two years, he became a really, really famous artist. 729 00:58:50,511 --> 00:58:53,220 Everyone started flocking around him. 730 00:58:53,245 --> 00:58:58,111 Can you imagine how that would be difficult to adapt to? 731 00:58:58,144 --> 00:59:06,711 He kind of drifted to begin taking heroin, knowing that everyone who messed with it gets fucked up. 732 00:59:06,745 --> 00:59:09,877 Jean did want to be this burning ember. 733 00:59:09,910 --> 00:59:13,044 In modern times, there is for sure, whether you take Jackson. 734 00:59:13,077 --> 00:59:18,949 Pollock, whether you take Vincent Van Gogh, a romance about the notion of the 735 00:59:18,973 --> 00:59:24,844 artist as a person whose life is so intense that it's more than he can bear. 736 00:59:24,877 --> 00:59:30,311 And there is always the question of is it a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy? 737 00:59:30,344 --> 00:59:34,382 And I think in particular in Basquiat's case, he identified 738 00:59:34,406 --> 00:59:38,444 very consciously with these heroes who had tragic endings. 739 00:59:38,478 --> 00:59:42,011 He knew about the mystique of the drugs. 740 00:59:42,044 --> 00:59:46,244 How much of that was his only relation taking to the next level. 741 00:59:46,278 --> 00:59:48,944 So everything that happens to you then becomes heightened. 742 00:59:48,977 --> 00:59:50,777 It's hard to go back to the real world. 743 00:59:56,244 --> 00:59:58,511 There was a huge show for Jean. 744 00:59:58,544 --> 01:00:01,849 It was a triumph because he was in a show with 745 01:00:01,873 --> 01:00:05,177 the then, like, hottest contemporary artists. 746 01:00:05,211 --> 01:00:09,678 I think like Schnabel and the Italian, you know, Francesco Clemente. 747 01:00:09,711 --> 01:00:14,944 And me, Jean, we came outside and we were gonna go downtown to have dinner. 748 01:00:14,977 --> 01:00:16,711 So Jean throws his hand up, you know. 749 01:00:16,745 --> 01:00:18,044 He's waiting for a cab. 750 01:00:18,077 --> 01:00:22,910 And one cab, two cab, three cab, four cab, five cabs like passed. 751 01:00:22,944 --> 01:00:25,711 And Jean would sometimes get mad, because a cab would pass. 752 01:00:25,745 --> 01:00:29,578 He'd try to run up, like, try to pull a door open, like, you fucker! 753 01:00:29,611 --> 01:00:30,645 You know? 754 01:00:30,678 --> 01:00:33,544 But you'd feel these moments. 755 01:00:33,578 --> 01:00:36,745 Like, it was just a part of being black and living in New York City. 756 01:00:36,777 --> 01:00:38,817 Like, these things happen, you know what I'm saying? 757 01:00:41,678 --> 01:00:44,535 Of all the arrests this year, none have received as much 758 01:00:44,559 --> 01:00:47,311 public attention as that of a young graffiti artist. 759 01:00:47,344 --> 01:00:50,887 On September 15, 25 year old Michael Stewart was arrested for 760 01:00:50,911 --> 01:00:54,810 scrawling on the wall of a subway station at 3:00 in the morning. 761 01:00:54,844 --> 01:00:58,144 30 minutes later, Stewart lay in a deep coma at Bellevue. 762 01:00:58,177 --> 01:00:59,511 Hospital's emergency room. 763 01:00:59,544 --> 01:01:03,566 Michael Stewart was my friend, and very gentle, 764 01:01:03,590 --> 01:01:07,611 kind of effeminate young black man with dreads. 765 01:01:07,645 --> 01:01:12,316 He was going home one night on I train to Brooklyn, where he lived with 766 01:01:12,340 --> 01:01:17,011 his parents, and he was beaten to death by five white police officers. 767 01:01:17,044 --> 01:01:20,344 13 days after his arrest, Michael Stewart was dead. 768 01:01:20,378 --> 01:01:22,810 It really affected Jean-Michel. 769 01:01:22,844 --> 01:01:25,645 He thought it could have been him, and it could've been. 770 01:01:32,145 --> 01:01:34,535 To go from a place where you're in a gallery, you're 771 01:01:34,559 --> 01:01:36,949 at parties, you're in a place where everyone knows 772 01:01:36,974 --> 01:01:39,457 who the hell you are, and is looking at you, or hoping 773 01:01:39,481 --> 01:01:41,777 to do drugs with you, hoping to get laid by you. 774 01:01:41,810 --> 01:01:45,110 And to go back out in the world and to be just this black guy walking around 775 01:01:45,134 --> 01:01:48,854 looking kind of bum my to most people's eyes, that also was a mind fuck. 776 01:01:48,900 --> 01:01:52,910 It was very different for a black artist in 1982. 777 01:01:52,944 --> 01:01:55,511 Very different situation at that time. 778 01:01:55,544 --> 01:01:58,344 He was something the art world had not seen before. 779 01:01:58,539 --> 01:02:02,095 - And... and so... and you're... - you're seen as... as some sort 780 01:02:02,594 --> 01:02:05,645 of primal expressionism? 781 01:02:05,678 --> 01:02:07,211 Is that... 782 01:02:07,244 --> 01:02:08,944 Like an ape? 783 01:02:08,977 --> 01:02:10,844 Well, uh, let's... 784 01:02:10,877 --> 01:02:12,244 A primate? 785 01:02:12,278 --> 01:02:14,111 Well, I don't know. 786 01:02:14,144 --> 01:02:15,211 Is that... is that... 787 01:02:15,244 --> 01:02:17,278 You said it. I don't... you said it. 788 01:02:17,311 --> 01:02:19,511 Well, um, you... you're... 789 01:02:19,544 --> 01:02:21,411 Jean-Michel wasn't different. 790 01:02:21,444 --> 01:02:24,044 He was an artist just like most of the people at those scenes. 791 01:02:24,077 --> 01:02:26,272 But color makes you feel different, and you 792 01:02:26,296 --> 01:02:28,491 know people are looking at you a certain way. 793 01:02:28,511 --> 01:02:31,266 And all these different comments that you read about him 794 01:02:31,290 --> 01:02:34,044 had all that kind of language and coded language in it. 795 01:02:34,077 --> 01:02:37,844 This never would have happened to a white guy. 796 01:02:37,877 --> 01:02:42,196 The art world, which is full of liberal, left wing types, was feeling 797 01:02:42,220 --> 01:02:46,411 that they, you know, they needed to make a bow in that direction. 798 01:02:46,444 --> 01:02:51,777 The disadvantaged minorities and so on. 799 01:02:51,810 --> 01:03:00,444 His contribution to art is so minuscule as to be practically nil. 800 01:03:00,478 --> 01:03:01,844 About your... your... 801 01:03:01,877 --> 01:03:07,378 the story that you're always being locked in the basement in order to paint. 802 01:03:07,403 --> 01:03:09,277 Oh, that... 803 01:03:09,398 --> 01:03:10,997 that's just, um... 804 01:03:11,211 --> 01:03:13,077 it has a nasty edge to it, you know? 805 01:03:13,111 --> 01:03:15,177 I mean, I was never locked anywhere. 806 01:03:15,677 --> 01:03:19,611 I mean, if I was a white dude, they'd say artist in residence, rather than say all that other stuff. 807 01:03:19,645 --> 01:03:24,278 You know, it's shocking to even think that it's not that long ago. 808 01:03:24,311 --> 01:03:25,910 The early '80s. 809 01:03:25,944 --> 01:03:27,222 I had this a lot. 810 01:03:27,243 --> 01:03:29,324 Most of my reviews have been more reviews on... 811 01:03:29,344 --> 01:03:30,578 Your personality. 812 01:03:30,611 --> 01:03:33,077 On my personality, yeah, more so than my work, mostly. 813 01:03:33,111 --> 01:03:35,844 How so? How do you react to that sort of thing? 814 01:03:36,189 --> 01:03:38,189 They're just racist, most of these people. 815 01:03:40,944 --> 01:03:42,645 I know it affected him strongly. 816 01:03:42,678 --> 01:03:44,678 It was very tough on him. 817 01:03:44,711 --> 01:03:46,925 They have this image of me, wild man, running, you 818 01:03:46,950 --> 01:03:50,688 know, wild monkey man, whatever the fuck they say. 819 01:03:52,025 --> 01:03:55,059 There's this tendency to say, well, he's a primitive artist. 820 01:03:55,311 --> 01:03:58,378 But he was a kid who grew up in New York City in the 1970s and '80s. 821 01:03:58,411 --> 01:04:00,841 What the art world did to him reminds me of what 822 01:04:00,865 --> 01:04:03,711 happens in... in various points in black history to... 823 01:04:03,745 --> 01:04:05,111 to black artists. 824 01:04:05,144 --> 01:04:08,450 A, you become a representation for white people of all black 825 01:04:08,474 --> 01:04:11,611 people, because you're the only black person they know. 826 01:04:11,645 --> 01:04:15,356 The guy obviously spent a lot of time thinking about what his place in the 827 01:04:15,380 --> 01:04:19,091 world was, and what's the place of black people and black men in the world. 828 01:04:19,111 --> 01:04:22,211 It's all in all his work over and over and over again. 829 01:04:59,478 --> 01:05:04,844 He excavated the incredibly rich history of black people. 830 01:05:12,008 --> 01:05:16,275 He's had an epic view of the history in his paintings. 831 01:05:16,645 --> 01:05:19,236 He's going back to slavery. He's going back to Robert Johnson. 832 01:05:19,257 --> 01:05:21,124 He's going back to Joe Lewis. 833 01:05:50,511 --> 01:05:53,233 He's got a real sense of why he celebrates black kings, 834 01:05:53,257 --> 01:05:55,877 is because the world doesn't celebrate black kings. 835 01:06:11,810 --> 01:06:13,211 And suddenly you're a black king. 836 01:06:16,144 --> 01:06:19,487 And now I'm here with the quote, unquote "elite" 837 01:06:19,511 --> 01:06:23,211 of this particular world who controlled your value. 838 01:06:23,244 --> 01:06:26,282 You're beholden to this world to make you what you are, but 839 01:06:26,306 --> 01:06:29,344 you're always aware that how I can become cold, and what... 840 01:06:29,378 --> 01:06:32,544 what am I to them? I'm just last year's thing. 841 01:06:32,578 --> 01:06:35,728 And I'm just last year's interesting negro. 842 01:06:41,544 --> 01:06:43,378 Something started to happen to Jean. 843 01:06:43,411 --> 01:06:46,444 After a while, the party started to wear on him, too. 844 01:06:46,478 --> 01:06:52,711 And he started to get a little bit more distrustful, a little bit more paranoid. 845 01:06:52,745 --> 01:06:55,909 He distrusted different situations that he would be in sometimes, and 846 01:06:55,933 --> 01:06:59,378 felt like he was being used, and that really fucked him... fucked him up. 847 01:07:02,011 --> 01:07:04,464 You know, before, you left paintings around all the 848 01:07:04,488 --> 01:07:07,237 time you leave these traces of things that you've done. 849 01:07:07,258 --> 01:07:09,620 Are you more conscious of not doing that, or do you think... 850 01:07:09,641 --> 01:07:10,745 Definitely. 851 01:07:10,766 --> 01:07:12,278 Because they've wound up in auctions. 852 01:07:12,311 --> 01:07:13,877 People... yeah. 853 01:07:13,910 --> 01:07:17,645 I know people who've sold those things. 854 01:07:17,678 --> 01:07:21,544 Like, everybody I know has sold those things, yeah. 855 01:07:21,578 --> 01:07:25,077 He had more money than all of his friends. 856 01:07:25,111 --> 01:07:30,177 And so that made him suspicious. 857 01:07:30,211 --> 01:07:33,844 More people started surrounding him for exploitative reasons. 858 01:07:33,877 --> 01:07:39,944 So partly there was a reason to be paranoid, and partly it was substance induced. 859 01:07:39,977 --> 01:07:44,578 If you're using substances, it's very, very hard to stay grounded. 860 01:08:38,144 --> 01:08:39,678 I think he wanted to have fun. 861 01:08:40,043 --> 01:08:41,444 I think he was having fun. 862 01:08:41,478 --> 01:08:44,877 He wanted to have fun, and he didn't want to get his feelings hurt. 863 01:08:44,910 --> 01:08:50,541 And if he just could've had a little bit more support in a deep sense so he didn't 864 01:08:50,565 --> 01:08:56,544 feel so damn lonely and didn't feel so taken advantage of and got so damn confused... 865 01:08:56,578 --> 01:09:01,844 he just didn't have the tools to kind of navigate the sea of shit. 866 01:09:18,745 --> 01:09:19,745 He went to Hana. 867 01:09:25,344 --> 01:09:27,777 And he actually went there with his father. 868 01:09:27,810 --> 01:09:30,249 I think he wanted to prove something to his father, or 869 01:09:30,273 --> 01:09:32,711 he wanted to prove his father that he was successful. 870 01:09:32,745 --> 01:09:37,311 Jean wanted his respect, and he wanted his confirmation. 871 01:09:37,344 --> 01:09:41,611 So, um, of all the places that you've traveled to, which has been your favorite? 872 01:09:41,645 --> 01:09:44,511 This is a boring answer, but I'm hung up on Hawaii. 873 01:09:44,544 --> 01:09:45,810 - Yeah? - Yeah. 874 01:09:45,844 --> 01:09:47,977 Why's that? 875 01:09:48,011 --> 01:09:54,544 Because it's, um, because of the convenience of it and the wildness of it, I guess. 876 01:09:54,578 --> 01:09:56,893 Because you can buy anything you can buy in America. 877 01:09:56,914 --> 01:09:59,211 You can buy your favorite toothpaste. 878 01:09:59,232 --> 01:10:01,679 And then you can just drive for two hours, and be, you 879 01:10:01,703 --> 01:10:04,150 know, and they speak English, I guess. I don't know. 880 01:10:13,282 --> 01:10:15,578 I remember Steve Torton once said something about you. 881 01:10:15,603 --> 01:10:19,192 Steve said, you know, Jean-Michel is so cerebral, and he lives so much in his 882 01:10:19,216 --> 01:10:22,804 brain that you can put him anywhere and it would be... it just wouldn't matter. 883 01:10:23,044 --> 01:10:26,632 It's like, it's not like you're unaware of your environment, but it just 884 01:10:26,656 --> 01:10:30,244 in some way doesn't matter because you're living in your brain and not... 885 01:10:30,278 --> 01:10:33,369 I think it definitely makes a difference, though, from here and Hawaii and all. 886 01:10:33,389 --> 01:10:35,841 I mean, I think I have to learn more and just not to work around 887 01:10:35,866 --> 01:10:39,137 what's around me and just work with what I think, I guess. 888 01:10:40,449 --> 01:10:43,499 I shouldn't let what's around me affect my work at all, I 889 01:10:43,523 --> 01:10:47,011 think, and just... and just work on whatever I want to work on. 890 01:10:47,044 --> 01:10:51,301 Do you still see yourself as naive the way you described yourself as a kid? 891 01:10:51,326 --> 01:10:52,864 - Yeah. - You don't feel like... 892 01:10:52,889 --> 01:10:56,322 Because I'm... I'm always embarrassed of... of the past. Always, you know? 893 01:10:56,591 --> 01:11:00,111 I always feel like if I knew more, I wouldn't have done that. 894 01:11:00,144 --> 01:11:07,810 I mean, naive, too, in relation to this incredibly high pressure, competitive art world that you're part of. 895 01:11:07,844 --> 01:11:11,810 Do you maintain a distance from it so that you don't get cynical about it? 896 01:11:11,844 --> 01:11:14,745 I don't think the art world is a thing with a set group of people. 897 01:11:14,777 --> 01:11:19,704 They're all mercenaries trying to make as much money as they can as fast as they can, most of them. 898 01:11:21,626 --> 01:11:25,593 I always felt that LA was like a safety valve, not that he could live his whole life here. 899 01:11:25,618 --> 01:11:28,618 He was hardly gonna fit in here year in, year out. 900 01:11:28,714 --> 01:11:31,164 But I thought it was a great place for him to work where he 901 01:11:31,188 --> 01:11:33,893 didn't feel as much pressure, and he was more relaxed to paint. 902 01:11:40,578 --> 01:11:43,664 I thought when he moved back to New York and gave 903 01:11:43,689 --> 01:11:47,718 up the studio here, and I felt it was a shift there. 904 01:11:48,311 --> 01:11:51,611 Crosby Street got a little out of hand, because everybody knew he was there. 905 01:11:51,645 --> 01:11:54,036 People would constantly be ringing the bell, or he was 906 01:11:54,060 --> 01:11:56,678 only on the second floor, so you could be like, yo, Jean. 907 01:11:56,711 --> 01:11:58,745 And he kind of needed to move away from that. 908 01:11:58,777 --> 01:12:03,844 And Andy came through with this place on Great Jones Street. 909 01:12:03,877 --> 01:12:06,444 Andy love Jean-Michel like a son, almost. 910 01:12:06,478 --> 01:12:11,177 And at various times, he was concerned about him, and I was, too. 911 01:12:11,211 --> 01:12:14,634 So we sometimes talked about that. 912 01:12:14,659 --> 01:12:19,026 I hung out with him and Andy several times during that period when they were very close. 913 01:12:19,051 --> 01:12:21,085 Andy was really giving great advice. 914 01:12:21,154 --> 01:12:23,720 Andy would be like, Jean, did you do this? 915 01:12:23,745 --> 01:12:25,812 And have you spoke to your mom? 916 01:12:26,011 --> 01:12:27,311 And did you blah blah blah? 917 01:12:27,344 --> 01:12:29,098 He'd go through this list of things. 918 01:12:29,118 --> 01:12:31,411 And Jean would be like, yeah, yeah, I did that. 919 01:12:31,444 --> 01:12:34,044 So I was just like, OK, oh, wow, you know? 920 01:12:34,077 --> 01:12:37,936 It was strange that if you're paranoid about people taking advantage of you, 921 01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:41,716 and you think that people are exploiting you, and all these things, that 922 01:12:41,740 --> 01:12:45,392 the one friend that you can call to be there on the lifeline to help you 923 01:12:45,416 --> 01:12:49,378 out of this paranoia of your friends taking advantage of you is Andy Warhol. 924 01:12:49,411 --> 01:12:52,745 But I think that with Jean, Andy really was there for him. 925 01:12:52,777 --> 01:12:58,444 I'd never seen Andy so close with anyone, and I'd never seen Jean so close with anyone. 926 01:12:58,478 --> 01:12:59,745 This was a real... 927 01:12:59,777 --> 01:13:02,044 these guys really loved each other. 928 01:13:02,077 --> 01:13:06,406 And Jean tried to do that collaboration show with him and thought he was gonna get 929 01:13:06,430 --> 01:13:10,759 some kind of approval for doing this, and be accepted, and that it was a good thing. 930 01:13:39,745 --> 01:13:43,799 Their friendship and that relationship led to not just dabbling 931 01:13:43,823 --> 01:13:47,877 and trying out a few things together, but a large body of work. 932 01:13:50,810 --> 01:13:53,810 Listening to what he had to say was probably the most fun. 933 01:13:54,273 --> 01:13:55,673 Seeing how he dealt with things. 934 01:13:58,854 --> 01:14:00,239 He's really... he's really funny. 935 01:14:00,264 --> 01:14:01,211 Uh-huh. 936 01:14:01,244 --> 01:14:04,344 You know, just tells a lot of funny jokes. 937 01:14:04,378 --> 01:14:08,211 I was there once when they were working, and Andy would get mad at Jean-Michel for... 938 01:14:08,244 --> 01:14:12,111 he would paint something, and then Jean-Michel would paint over it. 939 01:14:12,144 --> 01:14:15,311 And that was funny to see. 940 01:14:15,344 --> 01:14:18,782 Andy was more influenced by Jean-Michel than Jean-Michel 941 01:14:18,806 --> 01:14:22,244 was influenced by Andy, because Andy had given up drawing. 942 01:14:22,278 --> 01:14:28,011 And it was Jean-Michel that got him to draw again, and nobody could draw like Andy. It was amazing. 943 01:14:28,044 --> 01:14:29,278 Yeah, we worked for a year. 944 01:14:29,311 --> 01:14:32,099 Would he come up with the idea for one and then you'd 945 01:14:32,123 --> 01:14:34,910 come up with one, or how did you do the collaboration? 946 01:14:34,944 --> 01:14:37,311 He started... he would start most of the paintings. 947 01:14:37,344 --> 01:14:42,438 He would put... he'd start one and put something very concrete 948 01:14:42,462 --> 01:14:47,555 or recognizable on, like a newspaper headline or a product logo. 949 01:14:47,576 --> 01:14:50,623 And then I would sort of deface it, and then... I would try to get him 950 01:14:50,647 --> 01:14:53,694 to work some more on it, you know, and then I would work more on it. 951 01:14:53,715 --> 01:14:56,224 I would try to get him to do at least two things, you know? 952 01:14:56,244 --> 01:14:57,944 Uh-huh. 953 01:14:57,977 --> 01:15:03,686 He likes to do just one hit, you know, and then... and then have me do all the work after that, you know? 954 01:15:03,711 --> 01:15:07,345 So did you have rules like you couldn't actually paint over his stuff, or... 955 01:15:07,370 --> 01:15:09,250 No, no, no. I used to paint over his shitty stuff all the time. 956 01:15:09,275 --> 01:15:10,634 Yeah. 957 01:15:11,578 --> 01:15:15,371 And luckily for the world, I suppose, they produced 958 01:15:15,395 --> 01:15:18,808 a spectacular body of work, including a very 959 01:15:18,832 --> 01:15:22,626 large painting with the Mobilgas Pegasus and a cut 960 01:15:22,650 --> 01:15:26,444 of meat and a penguin that's a true masterpiece. 961 01:15:30,810 --> 01:15:33,746 He felt that if he could align himself not only as a 962 01:15:33,770 --> 01:15:37,111 friend of Andy Warhol's, but actually painting with Andy. 963 01:15:37,144 --> 01:15:40,208 Warhol, this was going to take him to the next level... that 964 01:15:40,232 --> 01:15:43,244 he would finally get the respect that he was looking for. 965 01:15:49,362 --> 01:15:50,861 It was not what he expected. 966 01:15:53,392 --> 01:15:57,125 Everybody attacked those paintings. 967 01:15:57,150 --> 01:16:03,617 Jean-Michel embraced Andy at a period and a time when Andy was not very popular. 968 01:16:03,745 --> 01:16:07,645 Andy basically couldn't sell his work very well in the '80s. 969 01:16:14,822 --> 01:16:18,776 I don't know if Jean-Michel felt bad that he let Andy down or if he 970 01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:22,755 believed what the press said, that Andy was taking advantage of him. 971 01:16:30,232 --> 01:16:32,810 They said that he was Andy's lapdog and all these kind of things. 972 01:16:32,952 --> 01:16:34,452 It really hurt him. 973 01:16:53,790 --> 01:16:55,077 They said he was finished. 974 01:16:55,111 --> 01:16:56,844 It was the attitude. 975 01:16:56,877 --> 01:17:02,111 And it was hard for us to understand. 976 01:17:02,144 --> 01:17:04,745 Andy Warhol died last week. 977 01:17:04,777 --> 01:17:09,877 One week ago today, as he lay in a hospital bed following gallbladder surgery, 978 01:17:10,936 --> 01:17:13,170 Andy Warhol's heart stopped beating. 979 01:17:14,244 --> 01:17:16,411 His condition had been stable. 980 01:17:16,444 --> 01:17:18,311 No one had expected him to die. 981 01:17:20,944 --> 01:17:26,444 I was so shocked, because I always thought Andy would, like, outlive all of us. 982 01:17:45,231 --> 01:17:48,977 They had a falling out, and he never had a chance to repair that. 983 01:17:49,011 --> 01:17:52,111 And so I think it was extremely painful for him. 984 01:17:52,144 --> 01:17:55,244 He really went downhill after that. 985 01:17:55,278 --> 01:17:59,711 Jean was devastated, and he was crying like hysterically. 986 01:17:59,745 --> 01:18:04,645 And some friends said, yo, man, you should go in there and talk to him, because people... 987 01:18:04,678 --> 01:18:07,650 everybody that went up to him and tried to talk to 988 01:18:07,674 --> 01:18:10,645 him he just like shut down like really abruptly. 989 01:18:10,678 --> 01:18:12,844 They were like, mm. 990 01:18:12,877 --> 01:18:14,511 And I was like, all right. 991 01:18:14,544 --> 01:18:17,678 And I went in and I could just tell he was grieving. It was so bad. 992 01:18:41,044 --> 01:18:43,910 Early on, he wouldn't admit that he was on drugs. 993 01:18:43,944 --> 01:18:46,810 He wouldn't... he didn't want to talk about it. 994 01:19:05,745 --> 01:19:07,910 I didn't know he was going that... that hard. 995 01:19:07,944 --> 01:19:12,077 I was shocked to hear that. 996 01:19:12,111 --> 01:19:17,111 I wasn't very involved in his life in, like, the last year and a half. 997 01:19:17,144 --> 01:19:20,077 And I had heard he was doing badly with drugs. 998 01:19:20,111 --> 01:19:23,711 And I went over there a few times to check on him. 999 01:19:23,745 --> 01:19:28,922 I tried to address the drugs with him, but he would become 1000 01:19:28,946 --> 01:19:35,519 very angry and violent at that point if I talked to him about 1001 01:19:35,544 --> 01:19:36,910 stopping using drugs. 1002 01:19:36,944 --> 01:19:42,211 The pressure of that artificial world made it difficult for him to do something. 1003 01:19:42,244 --> 01:19:44,456 They tell me that the drugs are killing me, 1004 01:19:44,480 --> 01:19:46,691 and I stop, and then they say my art's dead. 1005 01:19:59,553 --> 01:20:01,645 I had just taken a job at Nell's. 1006 01:20:01,678 --> 01:20:04,544 And he came in super late, and there was a bit of a scurry. 1007 01:20:04,578 --> 01:20:05,877 And I didn't know who he was. 1008 01:20:05,902 --> 01:20:08,727 He sat at my table, and he sort of arrogantly said, 1009 01:20:08,752 --> 01:20:10,897 do you want to come and see some famous paintings? 1010 01:20:10,918 --> 01:20:12,344 I'm a really famous painter. 1011 01:20:13,259 --> 01:20:19,011 And I said, you know, super famous people don't have to say they're famous. 1012 01:20:19,044 --> 01:20:22,877 And so I went over, and his lights were off, or the electric bill wasn't paid. 1013 01:20:22,918 --> 01:20:25,784 I mean, there wasn't a life going on in there and we went back 1014 01:20:25,808 --> 01:20:28,674 to the back of the studio, and he started to pull out paintings. 1015 01:20:28,711 --> 01:20:32,529 Eventually, he pulled a couple canvas and said, which one do you like better? 1016 01:20:32,554 --> 01:20:36,288 And it was the double Elvis, which I now know was Warhol's, and I didn't then. 1017 01:20:36,512 --> 01:20:38,545 And I said, you should do more like that. 1018 01:20:38,570 --> 01:20:39,936 I really like that. 1019 01:20:40,007 --> 01:20:43,507 And so he just kind of chuckled and said, you don't know who I am, do you? 1020 01:20:43,578 --> 01:20:45,011 And I said, no. 1021 01:20:45,035 --> 01:20:48,935 And so, you know, as time went on, I realized, like, that's why he kept me around. 1022 01:20:48,977 --> 01:20:52,344 Because I hadn't the slightest clue, really, of where I was. 1023 01:21:04,645 --> 01:21:08,244 I was like, kind of cheerleading, because he didn't want to do the show. 1024 01:21:08,278 --> 01:21:10,844 He wanted to cancel the show. 1025 01:21:10,877 --> 01:21:14,011 I was there like saying, no, you can... you can do it. 1026 01:21:14,044 --> 01:21:18,244 A week or a few days and suddenly the opening. 1027 01:21:18,278 --> 01:21:23,611 His sort of hallmark had been this incredible detail, and that show was very stark. 1028 01:21:23,645 --> 01:21:26,211 But it was powerful. 1029 01:21:26,244 --> 01:21:28,044 Kind of more simplified. 1030 01:21:28,077 --> 01:21:31,724 They were more spacious and... and ironic, and they have a different 1031 01:21:31,748 --> 01:21:35,777 kind of head behind them, but they also kind of reduced him a little bit. 1032 01:21:35,810 --> 01:21:38,244 It was just typical of a late artist. 1033 01:21:38,278 --> 01:21:41,478 It's like he was doing late work at the age of 27. 1034 01:22:02,977 --> 01:22:07,478 They were very good, but they were really kind of lose and kind of scary. 1035 01:22:13,711 --> 01:22:18,678 One had the words, "man dies, man dies" all the way through it. 1036 01:22:18,711 --> 01:22:21,611 It was very scary, you know? 1037 01:22:21,636 --> 01:22:24,963 And he was like, looking really bad, and he had the 1038 01:22:24,988 --> 01:22:28,931 splotches on his face, and he did not look good. 1039 01:22:29,745 --> 01:22:34,411 He was a bad frame of mind, because he thought the press was going to get him. 1040 01:22:34,444 --> 01:22:39,782 And he was really worried about this article that Anthony was writing about him 1041 01:22:39,806 --> 01:22:45,144 for New York Magazine, and he was upset about his relationship with his father. 1042 01:22:45,177 --> 01:22:47,144 He was having a hard time with drugs. 1043 01:22:47,177 --> 01:22:51,578 It was all kind of hitting him at once. 1044 01:22:51,611 --> 01:22:54,511 At that time, there weren't that many people around. 1045 01:22:54,544 --> 01:22:56,144 Very, very few. 1046 01:22:56,177 --> 01:23:01,444 His gallery, a couple people. 1047 01:23:01,478 --> 01:23:02,544 I would say that I... 1048 01:23:02,578 --> 01:23:05,502 I think that he would... he was a bit lonely. 1049 01:23:05,549 --> 01:23:09,711 We were having lunch at the Odeon and Jean-Michel's dad was there with some businessmen. 1050 01:23:09,745 --> 01:23:11,944 So he's like, oh, that's my dad over there. 1051 01:23:11,977 --> 01:23:14,077 And he went up, he popped up, and he bounced over. 1052 01:23:14,111 --> 01:23:17,177 And he was with his friends, which was us, and his dad was with his friends. 1053 01:23:17,211 --> 01:23:19,378 He's like, hey, Dad, how you doing? Look, I'm... 1054 01:23:19,411 --> 01:23:22,745 I'm taking all my friends out to lunch. I'm successful. Blah, blah, blah. 1055 01:23:22,777 --> 01:23:25,111 And Jean-Michel came back with his tail between his legs. 1056 01:23:25,144 --> 01:23:28,077 His dad kind of iced him. 1057 01:23:28,111 --> 01:23:32,411 Just those moments where I saw him... it just deflated him. 1058 01:23:32,444 --> 01:23:36,144 I've seen this with other celebrity friends of mine. 1059 01:23:36,177 --> 01:23:39,034 Once they've encountered a certain amount of success, they tend 1060 01:23:39,059 --> 01:23:43,547 to go back to find people that they knew before they were famous. 1061 01:23:45,211 --> 01:23:49,211 He came to my 1st Street apartment and rang the bell. 1062 01:23:49,244 --> 01:23:51,144 And it was the middle of the night. 1063 01:23:51,177 --> 01:23:55,378 And at that point, I had a... a new boyfriend that I was living with. 1064 01:23:55,411 --> 01:24:00,678 And he got up, and who is it? 1065 01:24:00,711 --> 01:24:01,877 Jean-Michel. Can I come in? 1066 01:24:01,910 --> 01:24:03,478 Is Suzanne there? Is Suzanne there? 1067 01:24:03,511 --> 01:24:06,077 And he wasn't... Jonathan was not gonna let him in. 1068 01:24:06,111 --> 01:24:07,910 And I said, you have to let him in. 1069 01:24:07,944 --> 01:24:09,777 Maybe he's in trouble, you know? 1070 01:24:09,810 --> 01:24:14,368 And so I buzzed him in, but he never came up. 1071 01:24:14,441 --> 01:24:16,281 And that was the last encounter I had with him. 1072 01:24:20,244 --> 01:24:26,011 And he showed up to my apartment over on 1st Street, and he yelled out the window. 1073 01:24:26,044 --> 01:24:28,844 And he shows up with two paintings... with a diptych. 1074 01:24:29,330 --> 01:24:32,082 It said, to SAMO, from SAMO. 1075 01:24:34,278 --> 01:24:40,745 And like a... like a creep, I turned around and I sold those paintings. 1076 01:24:40,777 --> 01:24:42,511 Yeah. 1077 01:24:42,544 --> 01:24:43,711 When he was still alive? 1078 01:24:43,745 --> 01:24:45,044 He was still alive. 1079 01:24:45,077 --> 01:24:48,044 One of the last times I saw him was New Year's Eve. 1080 01:24:48,077 --> 01:24:55,578 He was sitting by himself at a bar looking very sad, but so sweet. 1081 01:24:55,611 --> 01:24:58,111 And he just smiled at me. 1082 01:25:02,311 --> 01:25:07,366 That image haunts me, because there he was New Year's Eve all by 1083 01:25:07,390 --> 01:25:12,444 himself at this bar, the most famous artist of his generation. 1084 01:25:31,378 --> 01:25:34,544 We bought the house on Maui that he'd been to before. 1085 01:25:34,578 --> 01:25:38,344 The intention was to just clean up. 1086 01:25:38,378 --> 01:25:43,011 And last minute, he decided he wanted to do that on his own, because it wasn't a pretty time. 1087 01:25:43,044 --> 01:25:46,211 And so he went on his own. 1088 01:25:51,144 --> 01:25:56,344 He came back through Los Angeles, and he was totally sober, and he wasn't doing drugs or anything. 1089 01:25:56,378 --> 01:25:58,977 I picked him up sitting out on a street corner. 1090 01:25:59,011 --> 01:26:02,999 We ended up picking up Chinese food, and then we drove up to the top 1091 01:26:03,023 --> 01:26:07,011 of Mulholland and then just sat there in my car and ate Chinese food. 1092 01:26:10,810 --> 01:26:12,745 He was not in a good place. 1093 01:26:13,215 --> 01:26:15,722 He felt like his career was over, and he really 1094 01:26:15,747 --> 01:26:19,533 knew that if he did drugs again, he would die. 1095 01:26:21,273 --> 01:26:23,840 But for some reason, he went back to New York. 1096 01:26:28,111 --> 01:26:30,678 The summer is a strange, you know... 1097 01:26:30,711 --> 01:26:32,844 it's a motherfucker in New York. 1098 01:26:32,877 --> 01:26:34,111 It's hot. 1099 01:26:34,144 --> 01:26:36,877 It's very lonely and empty in the summer. 1100 01:26:40,711 --> 01:26:47,678 I get a message on my answering machine from him saying that he was back, and that he was... he was... 1101 01:26:47,711 --> 01:26:49,111 he was clean. 1102 01:26:49,144 --> 01:26:51,444 He was feeling great. 1103 01:26:51,478 --> 01:26:53,144 And he wanted to see me. 1104 01:26:53,177 --> 01:26:56,910 It's like that... that classic thing about people who are... 1105 01:26:56,944 --> 01:26:58,344 are... they get caught. 1106 01:26:58,378 --> 01:27:01,822 They get caught at the oddest of times when they... when they 1107 01:27:01,846 --> 01:27:04,813 die from drug... drug... drugs, alcohol, and that kind of thing. 1108 01:27:04,838 --> 01:27:06,171 It was a normal day. 1109 01:27:06,196 --> 01:27:10,720 He and Kevin had tickets to go to Run DMC, and he was very excited about going. 1110 01:27:10,745 --> 01:27:12,344 He got in a limousine or something. 1111 01:27:12,378 --> 01:27:15,745 We were going high style to the... to the... to the concert. 1112 01:27:15,777 --> 01:27:17,910 Went out there and said, Kevin's on the phone. 1113 01:27:17,944 --> 01:27:20,278 And he was sleeping. And so this was... 1114 01:27:20,311 --> 01:27:21,645 this was normal. 1115 01:27:21,678 --> 01:27:25,910 I went up a couple times, and he was still in bed, resting or whatever. 1116 01:27:25,944 --> 01:27:29,528 So the last time that I went up, he wasn't on the bed. 1117 01:27:30,511 --> 01:27:36,334 Um, and he'd fallen on the floor. 1118 01:27:37,544 --> 01:27:42,411 We sprinted over to... when she said he wouldn't wake up, we ran over to his house. 1119 01:27:42,444 --> 01:27:48,910 And she opened the door, and we went upstairs, and he was laying there unconscious. 1120 01:27:48,944 --> 01:27:51,077 I was on the beach and somebody came up and told me. 1121 01:27:51,111 --> 01:27:54,820 Told me that he'd died. 1122 01:29:28,544 --> 01:29:31,278 Nothing surprises me about the success. 1123 01:29:31,311 --> 01:29:36,499 I mean, the only thing that surprises me is how, even though I was fan number one 1124 01:29:36,523 --> 01:29:41,711 or two, how I didn't even understand how extraordinary the vision was and talent. 1125 01:29:57,705 --> 01:29:58,877 So the... 1126 01:29:58,910 --> 01:30:00,211 now the future has arrived. 1127 01:30:00,244 --> 01:30:04,430 We're already 20 years later, and we can see better now. 1128 01:30:05,615 --> 01:30:10,089 Jean-Michel would be ecstatic, because the way the 1129 01:30:10,114 --> 01:30:15,628 game is played, Jean played it, you know, well. 1130 01:30:17,077 --> 01:30:18,877 This is a song for the genius child. 1131 01:30:18,910 --> 01:30:21,944 Sing it softly, for the song is wild. 1132 01:30:21,977 --> 01:30:25,444 Sing it softly, as ever you can. 1133 01:30:25,478 --> 01:30:27,645 Let the song get out of hand. 1134 01:30:27,678 --> 01:30:29,745 Nobody loves a genius child. 1135 01:30:29,777 --> 01:30:32,444 Can you love an eagle, tame or wild? 1136 01:30:32,478 --> 01:30:36,810 Wild or tame, can you love a monster of frightening name? 1137 01:30:36,844 --> 01:30:39,478 Nobody loves a genius child. 1138 01:30:39,511 --> 01:30:43,511 Free him, and let his soul run wild. 99075

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