Original subtitles

Yes, good to speak to you again, Vommy.

Yes, good to speak to you again, Vommy.

Yes, good to speak to you again, Vommy. I hope you're safe. I hope you're doing

I hope you're safe. I hope you're doing

I hope you're safe. I hope you're doing okay.

okay.

okay. Frankly speaking, I don't have many

Frankly speaking, I don't have many

Frankly speaking, I don't have many opportunities to speak to the Dutch

opportunities to speak to the Dutch

opportunities to speak to the Dutch audience. We are now on the verge of

audience. We are now on the verge of

audience. We are now on the verge of this NATO summit. The mainstream media

this NATO summit. The mainstream media

this NATO summit. The mainstream media regrettably is not interested to

regrettably is not interested to

regrettably is not interested to have the Russian point of view on

have the Russian point of view on

have the Russian point of view on developments.

developments.

developments. Russia and Ukraine are two brotherly

Russia and Ukraine are two brotherly

Russia and Ukraine are two brotherly nations, two brotherly peoples.

nations, two brotherly peoples.

nations, two brotherly peoples. 2022, that's not correct. War started in

2022, that's not correct. War started in

2022, that's not correct. War started in 2014.

2014.

2014. Shelling of Lugansk and Detsk by the

Shelling of Lugansk and Detsk by the

Shelling of Lugansk and Detsk by the Ukrainian forces was also instigated and

Ukrainian forces was also instigated and

Ukrainian forces was also instigated and helped by the CIA as well. Yeah,

helped by the CIA as well. Yeah,

helped by the CIA as well. Yeah, certainly. Certainly. Weapons of mass

certainly. Certainly. Weapons of mass

certainly. Certainly. Weapons of mass destructions. They were never found. The

destructions. They were never found. The

destructions. They were never found. The attacks of Israel. We call on both

attacks of Israel. We call on both

attacks of Israel. We call on both parties to to stop to stop this exchange

parties to to stop to stop this exchange

parties to to stop to stop this exchange of strikes. More dangerous now than it

of strikes. More dangerous now than it

of strikes. More dangerous now than it used to be in the period of the cold

used to be in the period of the cold

used to be in the period of the cold war. If people speak to each other,

war. If people speak to each other,

war. If people speak to each other, maybe they will find the solution. We

maybe they will find the solution. We

maybe they will find the solution. We don't have any dialogue.

The

The

The community

impact. Fore

for

for

for the

the

the show.

Believers

on the seats

turn the

turn the

turn the team.

So, thank you so much for being here

So, thank you so much for being here

So, thank you so much for being here today. I think um for us like we are

today. I think um for us like we are

today. I think um for us like we are really excited uh for having you over

really excited uh for having you over

really excited uh for having you over because I think it's super important

because I think it's super important

because I think it's super important especially in times in the media where

especially in times in the media where

especially in times in the media where you hear hear like one side of the story

you hear hear like one side of the story

you hear hear like one side of the story all the time repeatedly. Um, and it's

all the time repeatedly. Um, and it's

all the time repeatedly. Um, and it's like for us as a Truman Show, as a media

like for us as a Truman Show, as a media

like for us as a Truman Show, as a media outlet, we are not here to like um tell

outlet, we are not here to like um tell

outlet, we are not here to like um tell like this story is true or that story is

like this story is true or that story is

like this story is true or that story is true, but we think it's super important

true, but we think it's super important

true, but we think it's super important to hear at least like two sides of a

to hear at least like two sides of a

to hear at least like two sides of a story so that people can make up their

story so that people can make up their

story so that people can make up their own minds. And it seems like in this

own minds. And it seems like in this

own minds. And it seems like in this times that people don't think that or

times that people don't think that or

times that people don't think that or like governments don't think that people

like governments don't think that people

like governments don't think that people are able to make up their own minds

are able to make up their own minds

are able to make up their own minds anymore. Um, but they're like always

anymore. Um, but they're like always

anymore. Um, but they're like always like two sides of the story. Yeah. So,

like two sides of the story. Yeah. So,

like two sides of the story. Yeah. So, um, that's why we're happy to have you

um, that's why we're happy to have you

um, that's why we're happy to have you over and hopefully we can talk about

over and hopefully we can talk about

over and hopefully we can talk about that today a little bit. Well, thank you

that today a little bit. Well, thank you

that today a little bit. Well, thank you very much for inviting me and for me

very much for inviting me and for me

very much for inviting me and for me it's really an honor and a pleasure to

it's really an honor and a pleasure to

it's really an honor and a pleasure to address uh the Dutch audience, Dutch

address uh the Dutch audience, Dutch

address uh the Dutch audience, Dutch public because uh yes uh frankly

public because uh yes uh frankly

public because uh yes uh frankly speaking I don't have uh many

speaking I don't have uh many

speaking I don't have uh many opportunities to speak to the Dutch

opportunities to speak to the Dutch

opportunities to speak to the Dutch audience because the mainstream media

audience because the mainstream media

audience because the mainstream media regrettably is not interested to

regrettably is not interested to

regrettably is not interested to have the Russian position, Russian point

have the Russian position, Russian point

have the Russian position, Russian point of view on the world developments. It's

of view on the world developments. It's

of view on the world developments. It's only at the western uh just position

only at the western uh just position

only at the western uh just position that is being somehow put forward. Yes.

that is being somehow put forward. Yes.

that is being somehow put forward. Yes. And uh

And uh

And uh I am very rarely or if not never invited

I am very rarely or if not never invited

I am very rarely or if not never invited to uh give the comments on what is

to uh give the comments on what is

to uh give the comments on what is happening. So I am I am really h happy

happening. So I am I am really h happy

happening. So I am I am really h happy to for this opportunity and thank you

to for this opportunity and thank you

to for this opportunity and thank you very much. Thank you. So, so you're here

very much. Thank you. So, so you're here

very much. Thank you. So, so you're here since 2024, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So,

since 2024, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So,

since 2024, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's let's say a year now. A year and

that's let's say a year now. A year and

that's let's say a year now. A year and a half. Year and a half already. Year

a half. Year and a half already. Year

a half. Year and a half already. Year and a half. And in that year and a half,

and a half. And in that year and a half,

and a half. And in that year and a half, there's a lot of stuff going on between

there's a lot of stuff going on between

there's a lot of stuff going on between Ukraine and Russia and everything. So,

Ukraine and Russia and everything. So,

Ukraine and Russia and everything. So, you would say a lot of news being made

you would say a lot of news being made

you would say a lot of news being made in the Western media and the Dutch media

in the Western media and the Dutch media

in the Western media and the Dutch media about it. And you tell me that there's

about it. And you tell me that there's

about it. And you tell me that there's no media outlet who ask you any

no media outlet who ask you any

no media outlet who ask you any questions about, for example, the

questions about, for example, the

questions about, for example, the Ukraine situation? No. No. No.

Ukraine situation? No. No. No.

Ukraine situation? No. No. No. mainstream media never asked me about

mainstream media never asked me about

mainstream media never asked me about the Ukrainian situation and never

the Ukrainian situation and never

the Ukrainian situation and never expressed any interest to hear the

expressed any interest to hear the

expressed any interest to hear the Russian point of view on it. That's like

Russian point of view on it. That's like

Russian point of view on it. That's like you can't imagine that that would

you can't imagine that that would

you can't imagine that that would happen. Yeah. Like in in in such a topic

happen. Yeah. Like in in in such a topic

happen. Yeah. Like in in in such a topic like the Dutch medias are like fully

like the Dutch medias are like fully

like the Dutch medias are like fully printed with with all everything that's

printed with with all everything that's

printed with with all everything that's happening in in Ukraine. Um and that

happening in in Ukraine. Um and that

happening in in Ukraine. Um and that none of them had call you to ask the

none of them had call you to ask the

none of them had call you to ask the questions about it. Yeah. Regrettably

questions about it. Yeah. Regrettably

questions about it. Yeah. Regrettably no. Regrettably no. And when I speak to

no. Regrettably no. And when I speak to

no. Regrettably no. And when I speak to Dutch officials and when I try also to

Dutch officials and when I try also to

Dutch officials and when I try also to explain our point of view, uh well

explain our point of view, uh well

explain our point of view, uh well the answer is usually like this. Yes, we

the answer is usually like this. Yes, we

the answer is usually like this. Yes, we know your position. We know your

know your position. We know your

know your position. We know your position but our position is different.

position but our position is different.

position but our position is different. and then uh just uh there is a

and then uh just uh there is a

and then uh just uh there is a repetition of well-known just approaches

repetition of well-known just approaches

repetition of well-known just approaches which is so it's not a kind of an um

which is so it's not a kind of an um

which is so it's not a kind of an um it's not a discussion

it's not a discussion

it's not a discussion it's just an exchange of you know just

it's just an exchange of you know just

it's just an exchange of you know just uh statements you have your side I have

uh statements you have your side I have

uh statements you have your side I have my side and that's it yeah that's it

my side and that's it yeah that's it

my side and that's it yeah that's it that's it that's it that's it and do you

that's it that's it that's it and do you

that's it that's it that's it and do you like do you think they know the your

like do you think they know the your

like do you think they know the your side of the

side of the

side of the Well, I presume I presume because

Well, I presume I presume because

Well, I presume I presume because certainly uh not not not

certainly uh not not not

certainly uh not not not regrettably the public probably the

regrettably the public probably the

regrettably the public probably the common people who are absolutely

common people who are absolutely

common people who are absolutely do not have any access to the Russian

do not have any access to the Russian

do not have any access to the Russian media to they are all banned here you

media to they are all banned here you

media to they are all banned here you know just uh uh but uh those the

know just uh uh but uh those the

know just uh uh but uh those the politicians the people who formulate

politicians the people who formulate

politicians the people who formulate Dutch uh foreign policy, I suppose they

Dutch uh foreign policy, I suppose they

Dutch uh foreign policy, I suppose they know the Russian position, but they do

know the Russian position, but they do

know the Russian position, but they do not take it into account, you know. Mhm.

not take it into account, you know. Mhm.

not take it into account, you know. Mhm. And like how is it for you? Because you

And like how is it for you? Because you

And like how is it for you? Because you say like the the the typically like the

say like the the the typically like the

say like the the the typically like the Dutch people, they don't have access to

Dutch people, they don't have access to

Dutch people, they don't have access to your side of the story. Um how is it to

your side of the story. Um how is it to

your side of the story. Um how is it to be ambassador in the Netherlands right

be ambassador in the Netherlands right

be ambassador in the Netherlands right now? Because um uh Dan, he was uh with

now? Because um uh Dan, he was uh with

now? Because um uh Dan, he was uh with you this week, I think even yesterday,

you this week, I think even yesterday,

you this week, I think even yesterday, and he told us about the the Ukraine

and he told us about the the Ukraine

and he told us about the the Ukraine flags and like pictures of of war stuff

flags and like pictures of of war stuff

flags and like pictures of of war stuff and and everything going on in in front

and and everything going on in in front

and and everything going on in in front of the embassy. So that feels like a

of the embassy. So that feels like a

of the embassy. So that feels like a little bit hostile even or not. Yes,

little bit hostile even or not. Yes,

little bit hostile even or not. Yes, it's not easy. Uh really, it's not easy

it's not easy. Uh really, it's not easy

it's not easy. Uh really, it's not easy to be an ambassador here in the

to be an ambassador here in the

to be an ambassador here in the Netherlands because the environment is

Netherlands because the environment is

Netherlands because the environment is not friendly.

not friendly.

not friendly. No. Yes. you mentioned that we have uh

No. Yes. you mentioned that we have uh

No. Yes. you mentioned that we have uh this uh demonstration of Ukrainian flags

this uh demonstration of Ukrainian flags

this uh demonstration of Ukrainian flags uh opposite our gates. It's for the last

uh opposite our gates. It's for the last

uh opposite our gates. It's for the last 3 years we have it. Yeah. Each day they

3 years we have it. Yeah. Each day they

3 years we have it. Yeah. Each day they put it and then in the evening they

put it and then in the evening they

put it and then in the evening they uh bring it uh they they remove it and

uh bring it uh they they remove it and

uh bring it uh they they remove it and they they bring it back. Uh and uh it's

they they bring it back. Uh and uh it's

they they bring it back. Uh and uh it's uh approved by the authorities a kind of

uh approved by the authorities a kind of

uh approved by the authorities a kind of a just uh demonstration.

a just uh demonstration.

a just uh demonstration. Uh we are uh frankly we do not pay much

Uh we are uh frankly we do not pay much

Uh we are uh frankly we do not pay much attention to it. we get used to it, you

attention to it. we get used to it, you

attention to it. we get used to it, you know, and uh it's in our opinion it's an

know, and uh it's in our opinion it's an

know, and uh it's in our opinion it's an a manifestation of weakness, you know.

a manifestation of weakness, you know.

a manifestation of weakness, you know. It's not a manifestation of uh of uh of

It's not a manifestation of uh of uh of

It's not a manifestation of uh of uh of a kind of a

a kind of a

a kind of a uh

uh

uh you know just being sure in their own in

you know just being sure in their own in

you know just being sure in their own in in their own uh position to demonstrate

in their own uh position to demonstrate

in their own uh position to demonstrate a flag in spite in before the gates or

a flag in spite in before the gates or

a flag in spite in before the gates or in in of the foreign mission. It's it's

in in of the foreign mission. It's it's

in in of the foreign mission. It's it's it's not a bad it's not a good a good

it's not a bad it's not a good a good

it's not a bad it's not a good a good manner, you know, just well but well we

manner, you know, just well but well we

manner, you know, just well but well we do not pay much attention to it but yes

do not pay much attention to it but yes

do not pay much attention to it but yes uh we we have little

uh we we have little

uh we we have little not much contacts with the with the

not much contacts with the with the

not much contacts with the with the public officials and uh we do not have

public officials and uh we do not have

public officials and uh we do not have much dialogue with the government

much dialogue with the government

much dialogue with the government officials with the politicians.

officials with the politicians.

officials with the politicians. uh but uh I don't see any hostility or

uh but uh I don't see any hostility or

uh but uh I don't see any hostility or any you know just unfriendly attitude

any you know just unfriendly attitude

any you know just unfriendly attitude from uh ordinary Dutch people you know I

from uh ordinary Dutch people you know I

from uh ordinary Dutch people you know I never I was never never offended

never I was never never offended

never I was never never offended somewhere in the street and when I uh

somewhere in the street and when I uh

somewhere in the street and when I uh say that I am Russian there is always a

say that I am Russian there is always a

say that I am Russian there is always a smile you know and so Dutch public is

smile you know and so Dutch public is

smile you know and so Dutch public is absolutely adequate so so you think it's

absolutely adequate so so you think it's

absolutely adequate so so you think it's not the Dutch public who their point of

not the Dutch public who their point of

not the Dutch public who their point of view of the Russians is that way. It's

view of the Russians is that way. It's

view of the Russians is that way. It's just like the politicians. Yeah. The

just like the politicians. Yeah. The

just like the politicians. Yeah. The politicians they they formulated and

politicians they they formulated and

politicians they they formulated and they impose this position on the Dutch

they impose this position on the Dutch

they impose this position on the Dutch public. Yeah.

for

them.

for the Truman shows

links open notes.

links open notes.

links open notes. Where do you think that started? Like is

Where do you think that started? Like is

Where do you think that started? Like is that worse? Obviously, it would be worse

that worse? Obviously, it would be worse

that worse? Obviously, it would be worse now because of what's happening in the

now because of what's happening in the

now because of what's happening in the Ukraine, but um like for me, I have the

Ukraine, but um like for me, I have the

Ukraine, but um like for me, I have the feeling that as as long as I can

feeling that as as long as I can

feeling that as as long as I can remember, there's always been um

remember, there's always been um

remember, there's always been um one-sided news about Russia and

one-sided news about Russia and

one-sided news about Russia and everything going on in Russia. And I

everything going on in Russia. And I

everything going on in Russia. And I think the last years was a little bit

think the last years was a little bit

think the last years was a little bit before um everything like happened in

before um everything like happened in

before um everything like happened in Ukraine. It was it less I think but

Ukraine. It was it less I think but

Ukraine. It was it less I think but still like I think we always in the

still like I think we always in the

still like I think we always in the Dutch media the western media we always

Dutch media the western media we always

Dutch media the western media we always get like the idea that Russia is like

get like the idea that Russia is like

get like the idea that Russia is like the big enemy of the west. Yeah.

the big enemy of the west. Yeah.

the big enemy of the west. Yeah. regrettably, regrettably, you know, uh

regrettably, regrettably, you know, uh

regrettably, regrettably, you know, uh and uh uh after the the

and uh uh after the the

and uh uh after the the uh end of the cold war when the Soviet

uh end of the cold war when the Soviet

uh end of the cold war when the Soviet Union ceased to exist, we in Russia, we

Union ceased to exist, we in Russia, we

Union ceased to exist, we in Russia, we had uh no frank illusions

had uh no frank illusions

had uh no frank illusions that uh the there will be a new period

that uh the there will be a new period

that uh the there will be a new period in the relations between Russia and the

in the relations between Russia and the

in the relations between Russia and the test. Uh we really believed in this uh

test. Uh we really believed in this uh

test. Uh we really believed in this uh new political thinking proclaimed by

new political thinking proclaimed by

new political thinking proclaimed by President Garbachov.

President Garbachov.

President Garbachov. Uh and uh uh and we really uh thought

Uh and uh uh and we really uh thought

Uh and uh uh and we really uh thought that we might have no just a very equal,

that we might have no just a very equal,

that we might have no just a very equal, friendly and uh uh

friendly and uh uh

friendly and uh uh really

really

really not just relations that that are not uh

not just relations that that are not uh

not just relations that that are not uh hindered by any kind of a of an

hindered by any kind of a of an

hindered by any kind of a of an ideology.

ideology.

ideology. But regrettably

But regrettably

But regrettably uh we failed in our expectations because

uh we failed in our expectations because

uh we failed in our expectations because the west frankly speaking ever regarded

the west frankly speaking ever regarded

the west frankly speaking ever regarded Russia

Russia

Russia as an enemy. Do you do you like because

as an enemy. Do you do you like because

as an enemy. Do you do you like because I had like we we had a lady in the

I had like we we had a lady in the

I had like we we had a lady in the podcast and she she is she's a lot in

podcast and she she is she's a lot in

podcast and she she is she's a lot in Russia and she also tried to like

Russia and she also tried to like

Russia and she also tried to like because she's a lot in Russia she also

because she's a lot in Russia she also

because she's a lot in Russia she also tried to like she knows a lot of the

tried to like she knows a lot of the

tried to like she knows a lot of the history and she tried to um tell the

history and she tried to um tell the

history and she tried to um tell the audience also a different side as well.

audience also a different side as well.

audience also a different side as well. Um, and she told me and and maybe you

Um, and she told me and and maybe you

Um, and she told me and and maybe you can confirm this. A lot of Russians

can confirm this. A lot of Russians

can confirm this. A lot of Russians um back then they really wanted to be

um back then they really wanted to be

um back then they really wanted to be part actually of of what we have in the

part actually of of what we have in the

part actually of of what we have in the west or maybe not want to be part but

west or maybe not want to be part but

west or maybe not want to be part but they want to have good relations and

they want to have good relations and

they want to have good relations and they want to be working together and um

they want to be working together and um

they want to be working together and um and that was their in they wanted to do

and that was their in they wanted to do

and that was their in they wanted to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was

that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was

that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was that was the uh real uh real uh attitude

that was the uh real uh real uh attitude

that was the uh real uh real uh attitude of of the Russian people, you know, just

of of the Russian people, you know, just

of of the Russian people, you know, just to be part of this European family, but

to be part of this European family, but

to be part of this European family, but to be an equal member, you know, just

to be an equal member, you know, just

to be an equal member, you know, just that uh uh uh a member whose interests

that uh uh uh a member whose interests

that uh uh uh a member whose interests are being taken into account uh whose

are being taken into account uh whose

are being taken into account uh whose security is being uh

security is being uh

security is being uh respected. No, but from from the very

respected. No, but from from the very

respected. No, but from from the very beginning that went uh a bit different.

beginning that went uh a bit different.

beginning that went uh a bit different. Uh you know uh and uh for instance if we

Uh you know uh and uh for instance if we

Uh you know uh and uh for instance if we take not NATO

take not NATO

take not NATO especially since we are now on the verge

especially since we are now on the verge

especially since we are now on the verge of this NATO summit. Yeah. NATO was uh

of this NATO summit. Yeah. NATO was uh

of this NATO summit. Yeah. NATO was uh created in 1949

created in 1949

created in 1949 uh ex exclusively exclusively to uh

uh ex exclusively exclusively to uh

uh ex exclusively exclusively to uh uh to oppose the Soviet Union. Yeah. As

uh to oppose the Soviet Union. Yeah. As

uh to oppose the Soviet Union. Yeah. As a military black block that uh was

a military black block that uh was

a military black block that uh was created to just fight with the Soviet

created to just fight with the Soviet

created to just fight with the Soviet Union. Then the Warso pact was

Union. Then the Warso pact was

Union. Then the Warso pact was established

established

established later as a response by the way to the

later as a response by the way to the

later as a response by the way to the creation of NATO. So there was just a

creation of NATO. So there was just a

creation of NATO. So there was just a kind of a of a hostility of a opposition

kind of a of a hostility of a opposition

kind of a of a hostility of a opposition I would say between the two blocks.

I would say between the two blocks.

I would say between the two blocks. Yeah. Then why why is that do you think?

Yeah. Then why why is that do you think?

Yeah. Then why why is that do you think? Why did the west created NATO to like

Why did the west created NATO to like

Why did the west created NATO to like why is it why does the the west feel

why is it why does the the west feel

why is it why does the the west feel such a threat that why do they feel

such a threat that why do they feel

such a threat that why do they feel threatened a lot by by Russia the Soviet

threatened a lot by by Russia the Soviet

threatened a lot by by Russia the Soviet Union at at that time? Well, at that

Union at at that time? Well, at that

Union at at that time? Well, at that time there was a also a ideological

time there was a also a ideological

time there was a also a ideological dimension, you know, they were afraid of

dimension, you know, they were afraid of

dimension, you know, they were afraid of communism, of communist ideology.

communism, of communist ideology.

communism, of communist ideology. But uh uh then when uh uh the Soviet

But uh uh then when uh uh the Soviet

But uh uh then when uh uh the Soviet Union ceased to exist, you know, when

Union ceased to exist, you know, when

Union ceased to exist, you know, when the wars of pact was dissolved, when uh

the wars of pact was dissolved, when uh

the wars of pact was dissolved, when uh there was no uh communist uh ideology in

there was no uh communist uh ideology in

there was no uh communist uh ideology in Russia, you know, just as as a ruling

Russia, you know, just as as a ruling

Russia, you know, just as as a ruling ideology,

ideology,

ideology, there was absolutely no reason for NATO

there was absolutely no reason for NATO

there was absolutely no reason for NATO to continue to exist.

to continue to exist.

to continue to exist. But it was quite the opposite. It it it

But it was quite the opposite. It it it

But it was quite the opposite. It it it enlarged, you know, it uh moved

enlarged, you know, it uh moved

enlarged, you know, it uh moved eastwards to our borders in in spite of

eastwards to our borders in in spite of

eastwards to our borders in in spite of all the the promises that we were given

all the the promises that we were given

all the the promises that we were given by Chancellor Cole, by Margaret

by Chancellor Cole, by Margaret

by Chancellor Cole, by Margaret Thatcher, by President

Thatcher, by President

Thatcher, by President uh of the United States at that time.

uh of the United States at that time.

uh of the United States at that time. Yeah. Um it was Bush Senior. Yeah. So

Yeah. Um it was Bush Senior. Yeah. So

Yeah. Um it was Bush Senior. Yeah. So they were they all assured

they were they all assured

they were they all assured uh Gorbachov and then Yelson that no no

uh Gorbachov and then Yelson that no no

uh Gorbachov and then Yelson that no no no no we will not expand we will not

no no we will not expand we will not

no no we will not expand we will not expand but then they started and

expand but then they started and

expand but then they started and certainly it was absolutely done on a

certainly it was absolutely done on a

certainly it was absolutely done on a anti-R anti-Russian you know just stance

anti-R anti-Russian you know just stance

anti-R anti-Russian you know just stance yeah uh there is absolutely no need no

yeah uh there is absolutely no need no

yeah uh there is absolutely no need no need for uh NATO to exist and to uh

need for uh NATO to exist and to uh

need for uh NATO to exist and to uh to to just continue to exist as a

to to just continue to exist as a

to to just continue to exist as a military block. But what we see now, we

military block. But what we see now, we

military block. But what we see now, we see the enlargement of NATO

see the enlargement of NATO

see the enlargement of NATO and uh the only reason for uh this is to

and uh the only reason for uh this is to

and uh the only reason for uh this is to create

create

create or just in in order to justify the the

or just in in order to justify the the

or just in in order to justify the the uh the expansion of NATO, one need to

uh the expansion of NATO, one need to

uh the expansion of NATO, one need to create to create an enemy.

create to create an enemy.

create to create an enemy. And so uh uh the west uh proclaimed

And so uh uh the west uh proclaimed

And so uh uh the west uh proclaimed Russia as an enemy as a as an aggressive

Russia as an enemy as a as an aggressive

Russia as an enemy as a as an aggressive uh state that has some aggressive plans

uh state that has some aggressive plans

uh state that has some aggressive plans against Europe against uh its neighbors

against Europe against uh its neighbors

against Europe against uh its neighbors which is absolutely it has nothing to do

which is absolutely it has nothing to do

which is absolutely it has nothing to do with the reality. you know, we uh

with the reality. you know, we uh

with the reality. you know, we uh numerously it was our president and it

numerously it was our president and it

numerously it was our president and it was stated on all levels that we do not

was stated on all levels that we do not

was stated on all levels that we do not have any aggressive plans to attack uh

have any aggressive plans to attack uh

have any aggressive plans to attack uh any of our uh neighbors in in in in

any of our uh neighbors in in in in

any of our uh neighbors in in in in Europe, you know, we don't need it and

Europe, you know, we don't need it and

Europe, you know, we don't need it and and uh

and uh

and uh it's our wish to live uh in a peaceful

it's our wish to live uh in a peaceful

it's our wish to live uh in a peaceful atmosphere and to develop friendly

atmosphere and to develop friendly

atmosphere and to develop friendly relations with our uh neighbors. But uh

relations with our uh neighbors. But uh

relations with our uh neighbors. But uh certainly uh when we see the very

certainly uh when we see the very

certainly uh when we see the very aggressive

aggressive

aggressive stance of uh uh of countries like like

stance of uh uh of countries like like

stance of uh uh of countries like like like Baltic countries like uh Finland

like Baltic countries like uh Finland

like Baltic countries like uh Finland for instance who joined NATO, like

for instance who joined NATO, like

for instance who joined NATO, like Sweden who joined NATO, we have to

Sweden who joined NATO, we have to

Sweden who joined NATO, we have to react, you know, to react by by by

react, you know, to react by by by

react, you know, to react by by by uh preparing our military installations,

uh preparing our military installations,

uh preparing our military installations, our military very uh uh just facilities

our military very uh uh just facilities

our military very uh uh just facilities along our western bords and but it has

along our western bords and but it has

along our western bords and but it has nothing to do with any any any

nothing to do with any any any

nothing to do with any any any uh aggressive plans you know and if we

uh aggressive plans you know and if we

uh aggressive plans you know and if we for instance if we take the region of

for instance if we take the region of

for instance if we take the region of the Baltic Sea

the Baltic Sea

the Baltic Sea it always only I would say that even in

it always only I would say that even in

it always only I would say that even in the period of the cold war

the period of the cold war

the period of the cold war Baltic Sea was the region of

Baltic Sea was the region of

Baltic Sea was the region of cooperation.

cooperation.

cooperation. You know, we had excellent relations in

You know, we had excellent relations in

You know, we had excellent relations in the time of the Soviet Union with

the time of the Soviet Union with

the time of the Soviet Union with Finland, which was our biggest trade

Finland, which was our biggest trade

Finland, which was our biggest trade partner. Yeah. And uh uh it was always a

partner. Yeah. And uh uh it was always a

partner. Yeah. And uh uh it was always a kind of a area of cooperation. What we

kind of a area of cooperation. What we

kind of a area of cooperation. What we see now, the area of Baltic Sea is one

see now, the area of Baltic Sea is one

see now, the area of Baltic Sea is one of the most potentially

of the most potentially

of the most potentially dangerous regions in in in just in

dangerous regions in in in just in

dangerous regions in in in just in Europe where the

Europe where the

Europe where the confrontation can

confrontation can

confrontation can uh bring a very very serious crisis, you

uh bring a very very serious crisis, you

uh bring a very very serious crisis, you know.

Fore

and why why is it dangerous for Russia

and why why is it dangerous for Russia

and why why is it dangerous for Russia that countries like for example Finland

that countries like for example Finland

that countries like for example Finland and Sweden join NATO? So well they are

and Sweden join NATO? So well they are

and Sweden join NATO? So well they are our neighbors you know just from the

our neighbors you know just from the

our neighbors you know just from the Finnish border to St. Petersburg

Finnish border to St. Petersburg

Finnish border to St. Petersburg it's I don't know maybe maybe 60 or 70

it's I don't know maybe maybe 60 or 70

it's I don't know maybe maybe 60 or 70 kilometers you know so

kilometers you know so

kilometers you know so may maybe more but not far not far but

may maybe more but not far not far but

may maybe more but not far not far but then you assume that NATO would um maybe

then you assume that NATO would um maybe

then you assume that NATO would um maybe even want to expand more or like like

even want to expand more or like like

even want to expand more or like like why is the fact that NATO has uh or

why is the fact that NATO has uh or

why is the fact that NATO has uh or Finland and Sweden joined NATO is that

Finland and Sweden joined NATO is that

Finland and Sweden joined NATO is that dangerous for for Russia? Yes, because

dangerous for for Russia? Yes, because

dangerous for for Russia? Yes, because we have just uh we have common borders

we have just uh we have common borders

we have just uh we have common borders not with Sweden but with Finland and for

not with Sweden but with Finland and for

not with Sweden but with Finland and for sure very long border and the uh Baltic

sure very long border and the uh Baltic

sure very long border and the uh Baltic Sea is also it's a kind of a it's a you

Sea is also it's a kind of a it's a you

Sea is also it's a kind of a it's a you know a sea that is used by all states

know a sea that is used by all states

know a sea that is used by all states all adjacent states it it must be the

all adjacent states it it must be the

all adjacent states it it must be the area of cooperation not an area of

area of cooperation not an area of

area of cooperation not an area of confrontation.

confrontation.

confrontation. Yeah. Yeah. So, but then in generally

Yeah. Yeah. So, but then in generally

Yeah. Yeah. So, but then in generally speaking, you the fact that like you

speaking, you the fact that like you

speaking, you the fact that like you don't trust NATO. No,

don't trust NATO. No,

don't trust NATO. No, you don't trust NATO. We were deceived

you don't trust NATO. We were deceived

you don't trust NATO. We were deceived so many times you know that for us it's

so many times you know that for us it's

so many times you know that for us it's very difficult now to trust uh this uh

very difficult now to trust uh this uh

very difficult now to trust uh this uh block and it's even difficult for us

block and it's even difficult for us

block and it's even difficult for us frankly speaking to trust

frankly speaking to trust

frankly speaking to trust European Union because we were also

European Union because we were also

European Union because we were also deceived uh

deceived uh

deceived uh uh numerously by this this organization

uh numerously by this this organization

uh numerously by this this organization and now you know it's it it would be it

and now you know it's it it would be it

and now you know it's it it would be it would be a very long process to restore

would be a very long process to restore

would be a very long process to restore this confidence.

this confidence.

this confidence. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Why do you think that

Why do you think that

Why do you think that NATO is expanding as they do?

NATO is expanding as they do?

NATO is expanding as they do? Well, because uh you know

Well, because uh you know

Well, because uh you know this organization

this organization

this organization it

it

it in order to exist,

in order to exist,

in order to exist, you know, it uh it has it has to create

you know, it uh it has it has to create

you know, it uh it has it has to create kind of an external threat.

kind of an external threat.

kind of an external threat. And this external threat

And this external threat

And this external threat for for for NATO is Russia as it was

for for for NATO is Russia as it was

for for for NATO is Russia as it was proclaimed, you know. But uh certainly

proclaimed, you know. But uh certainly

proclaimed, you know. But uh certainly we we we do not uh pose any threat to

we we we do not uh pose any threat to

we we we do not uh pose any threat to NATO. But uh uh this expansion expansion

NATO. But uh uh this expansion expansion

NATO. But uh uh this expansion expansion poses the threat to our interests. But

poses the threat to our interests. But

poses the threat to our interests. But certainly you must have an idea on why

certainly you must have an idea on why

certainly you must have an idea on why um on why NATO is expanding as they are

um on why NATO is expanding as they are

um on why NATO is expanding as they are doing. Well, well, to have a

doing. Well, well, to have a

doing. Well, well, to have a my opinion is just to have a full uh

my opinion is just to have a full uh

my opinion is just to have a full uh military and political domination in

military and political domination in

military and political domination in this region. That's that's it. Yeah,

this region. That's that's it. Yeah,

this region. That's that's it. Yeah, that's it. And you just told me like um

that's it. And you just told me like um

that's it. And you just told me like um earlier you told me that NATO has done

earlier you told me that NATO has done

earlier you told me that NATO has done some stuff that you that's the reason

some stuff that you that's the reason

some stuff that you that's the reason that you don't trust them anymore. The

that you don't trust them anymore. The

that you don't trust them anymore. The same goes for the European Union. Can

same goes for the European Union. Can

same goes for the European Union. Can you tell us a little bit more on on the

you tell us a little bit more on on the

you tell us a little bit more on on the things that they did? that's that um uh

things that they did? that's that um uh

things that they did? that's that um uh led up that you don't trust them

led up that you don't trust them

led up that you don't trust them anymore. Well, first of all, expansion.

anymore. Well, first of all, expansion.

anymore. Well, first of all, expansion. Expansion. We we we were as I have

Expansion. We we we were as I have

Expansion. We we we were as I have already mentioned, we were given

already mentioned, we were given

already mentioned, we were given asurances that they will not expand.

asurances that they will not expand.

asurances that they will not expand. They are expanding.

They are expanding.

They are expanding. then this uh just

then this uh just

then this uh just accumulations of of of of weapons and

accumulations of of of of weapons and

accumulations of of of of weapons and this military planning and NATO uh

this military planning and NATO uh

this military planning and NATO uh countries and uh regrettably

countries and uh regrettably

countries and uh regrettably uh members of NATO

uh members of NATO

uh members of NATO and even the Netherlands, they they

and even the Netherlands, they they

and even the Netherlands, they they clearly state that they're preparing for

clearly state that they're preparing for

clearly state that they're preparing for war with Russia. by 2030 there will be a

war with Russia. by 2030 there will be a

war with Russia. by 2030 there will be a war that was just

war that was just

war that was just said by by a number of European

said by by a number of European

said by by a number of European politicians

politicians

politicians and that's extremely extremely

and that's extremely extremely

and that's extremely extremely irresponsible and dangerous statements

irresponsible and dangerous statements

irresponsible and dangerous statements you know first of all we as I have

you know first of all we as I have

you know first of all we as I have already mentioned we do not have any

already mentioned we do not have any

already mentioned we do not have any aggressive plans we are not going to

aggressive plans we are not going to

aggressive plans we are not going to attack anyone but when uh we hear these

attack anyone but when uh we hear these

attack anyone but when uh we hear these statements

statements

statements what should be uh just uh imagine. Yeah.

what should be uh just uh imagine. Yeah.

what should be uh just uh imagine. Yeah. And why these statements are

And why these statements are

And why these statements are even more I would say irresponsible and

even more I would say irresponsible and

even more I would say irresponsible and dangerous because these uh politicians I

dangerous because these uh politicians I

dangerous because these uh politicians I don't know about polit but military uh

don't know about polit but military uh

don't know about polit but military uh people they must know for sure that the

people they must know for sure that the

people they must know for sure that the war between Russia and collective west

war between Russia and collective west

war between Russia and collective west and Europe it will not be a conventional

and Europe it will not be a conventional

and Europe it will not be a conventional war, it will inevitably

war, it will inevitably

war, it will inevitably develop into a nuclear war and that will

develop into a nuclear war and that will

develop into a nuclear war and that will be the end of humanity,

be the end of humanity,

be the end of humanity, you know, and

you know, and

you know, and so those who who are who are speaking

so those who who are who are speaking

so those who who are who are speaking about war with with Russia, they must be

about war with with Russia, they must be

about war with with Russia, they must be aware that there there will be an end to

aware that there there will be an end to

aware that there there will be an end to the world, you know, to the to the

the world, you know, to the to the

the world, you know, to the to the civilization.

civilization.

civilization. But you like this is hearing it from

But you like this is hearing it from

But you like this is hearing it from your mouth. It like it's it's such a

your mouth. It like it's it's such a

your mouth. It like it's it's such a surreal

surreal

surreal um thought almost that people would want

um thought almost that people would want

um thought almost that people would want a a scenario like that to come true.

a a scenario like that to come true.

a a scenario like that to come true. But you say it's like inevitable when

But you say it's like inevitable when

But you say it's like inevitable when when the west goes on with what they're

when the west goes on with what they're

when the west goes on with what they're doing at the moment. Yeah. you know the

doing at the moment. Yeah. you know the

doing at the moment. Yeah. you know the uh I I hope I hope that uh the reason

uh I I hope I hope that uh the reason

uh I I hope I hope that uh the reason will uh somehow

will uh somehow

will uh somehow will uh

will uh

will uh overcome all these political uh

overcome all these political uh

overcome all these political uh approaches. I understand why all these

approaches. I understand why all these

approaches. I understand why all these uh statements are made to justify the

uh statements are made to justify the

uh statements are made to justify the increase of military budget you know the

increase of military budget you know the

increase of military budget you know the uh uh preparation the the uh puffing on

uh uh preparation the the uh puffing on

uh uh preparation the the uh puffing on of of of military potential and

of of of military potential and

of of of military potential and certainly it's in the interests of

certainly it's in the interests of

certainly it's in the interests of military industrial complex yeah I

military industrial complex yeah I

military industrial complex yeah I understand but it's not clearly in the

understand but it's not clearly in the

understand but it's not clearly in the interests of the people so do you think

interests of the people so do you think

interests of the people so do you think that the for um the increasing of the of

that the for um the increasing of the of

that the for um the increasing of the of the budget for example like Rita told

the budget for example like Rita told

the budget for example like Rita told the Netherlands to like double I think

the Netherlands to like double I think

the Netherlands to like double I think in or almost double in in a short time.

in or almost double in in a short time.

in or almost double in in a short time. Um do you think that's a financial

Um do you think that's a financial

Um do you think that's a financial impulse to um to do it that way? So not

impulse to um to do it that way? So not

impulse to um to do it that way? So not really to go to war but to like get

really to go to war but to like get

really to go to war but to like get money flowing into the uh military. I

money flowing into the uh military. I

money flowing into the uh military. I think so. I think so. It's mainly

think so. I think so. It's mainly

think so. I think so. It's mainly certainly to to to puff the uh military

certainly to to to puff the uh military

certainly to to to puff the uh military industrial complex. But these statements

industrial complex. But these statements

industrial complex. But these statements are very dangerous. You know, they are

are very dangerous. You know, they are

are very dangerous. You know, they are very dangerous. Why are they so

very dangerous. Why are they so

very dangerous. Why are they so dangerous? Because there might be an

dangerous? Because there might be an

dangerous? Because there might be an escalation.

escalation.

escalation. You know, all these military exercises

You know, all these military exercises

You know, all these military exercises that are being uh organized just near

that are being uh organized just near

that are being uh organized just near our boards.

our boards.

our boards. And now they they are dangerous because

And now they they are dangerous because

And now they they are dangerous because there might be a kind of a provocation.

there might be a kind of a provocation.

there might be a kind of a provocation. Yeah. Just some kind of an incident.

Yeah. Just some kind of an incident.

Yeah. Just some kind of an incident. Yeah. And then there will be an

Yeah. And then there will be an

Yeah. And then there will be an escalation escalation and then and then

escalation escalation and then and then

escalation escalation and then and then a fullscale war.

a fullscale war.

a fullscale war. And nobody wants that unless not the

And nobody wants that unless not the

And nobody wants that unless not the normal people. Yeah. No, certainly

normal people. Yeah. No, certainly

normal people. Yeah. No, certainly certainly certainly certainly. And

certainly certainly certainly. And

certainly certainly certainly. And Russia is the last last country in the

Russia is the last last country in the

Russia is the last last country in the world that wants it. No, we do not want

world that wants it. No, we do not want

world that wants it. No, we do not want any any any confrontation with anyone.

any any any confrontation with anyone.

any any any confrontation with anyone. Yes, we certainly we have to to uh to

Yes, we certainly we have to to uh to

Yes, we certainly we have to to uh to exercise our special military operation

exercise our special military operation

exercise our special military operation in Ukraine, but that's another story.

in Ukraine, but that's another story.

in Ukraine, but that's another story. Yeah. Yeah. Well, talking about Ukraine

Yeah. Yeah. Well, talking about Ukraine

Yeah. Yeah. Well, talking about Ukraine because um one of the ways on on why

because um one of the ways on on why

because um one of the ways on on why people get behind these kind of plans

people get behind these kind of plans

people get behind these kind of plans and why people are really afraid of of a

and why people are really afraid of of a

and why people are really afraid of of a potential war and also are afraid about

potential war and also are afraid about

potential war and also are afraid about uh of Russia as well is uh is obviously

uh of Russia as well is uh is obviously

uh of Russia as well is uh is obviously what happened in Ukraine the last couple

what happened in Ukraine the last couple

what happened in Ukraine the last couple of years or at least the picture we get

of years or at least the picture we get

of years or at least the picture we get out of out of it from the media. Um

out of out of it from the media. Um

out of out of it from the media. Um because at least how they picture it is

because at least how they picture it is

because at least how they picture it is that Russia is doing a lot of stuff

that Russia is doing a lot of stuff

that Russia is doing a lot of stuff wrong on Ukraine and they are invading

wrong on Ukraine and they are invading

wrong on Ukraine and they are invading Ukraine. Uh so that we as west need to

Ukraine. Uh so that we as west need to

Ukraine. Uh so that we as west need to collectively raise our budgets etc and

collectively raise our budgets etc and

collectively raise our budgets etc and and arm for for at least defense against

and arm for for at least defense against

and arm for for at least defense against against Russia. Maybe it's it's good for

against Russia. Maybe it's it's good for

against Russia. Maybe it's it's good for the listeners and for the viewers to

the listeners and for the viewers to

the listeners and for the viewers to hear your point of view on on how this

hear your point of view on on how this

hear your point of view on on how this conflict actually happened and maybe we

conflict actually happened and maybe we

conflict actually happened and maybe we can go back years ago like from really

can go back years ago like from really

can go back years ago like from really the start for your point of view on how

the start for your point of view on how

the start for your point of view on how did this happen and where are we now at

did this happen and where are we now at

did this happen and where are we now at the moment. Yeah. Yeah. You're quite

the moment. Yeah. Yeah. You're quite

the moment. Yeah. Yeah. You're quite right. If we uh want just to understand

right. If we uh want just to understand

right. If we uh want just to understand why this conflict happened, we should

why this conflict happened, we should

why this conflict happened, we should not

not

not start with uh 2022.

start with uh 2022.

start with uh 2022. We should go back in history. You know,

We should go back in history. You know,

We should go back in history. You know, first of all, I would like to stress

first of all, I would like to stress

first of all, I would like to stress that

that

that Russia and Ukraine are two brotherly uh

Russia and Ukraine are two brotherly uh

Russia and Ukraine are two brotherly uh nations, two brotherly peoples. And even

nations, two brotherly peoples. And even

nations, two brotherly peoples. And even I would uh say that there is an point of

I would uh say that there is an point of

I would uh say that there is an point of view that I personally share that it's

view that I personally share that it's

view that I personally share that it's one people. It's one people. You know,

one people. It's one people. You know,

one people. It's one people. You know, Russia, Russians and Ukrainians are one

Russia, Russians and Ukrainians are one

Russia, Russians and Ukrainians are one people. Do the Ukrainians feel the same?

people. Do the Ukrainians feel the same?

people. Do the Ukrainians feel the same? Many, many, many, many, many, many. Yes,

Many, many, many, many, many, many. Yes,

Many, many, many, many, many, many. Yes, certainly there is official propaganda,

certainly there is official propaganda,

certainly there is official propaganda, official position that Ukraine has

official position that Ukraine has

official position that Ukraine has nothing to do with Russia. But it's

nothing to do with Russia. But it's

nothing to do with Russia. But it's absolutely nonsense from historic point

absolutely nonsense from historic point

absolutely nonsense from historic point of view, you know, because uh uh

of view, you know, because uh uh

of view, you know, because uh uh that was one people uh yes it was when

that was one people uh yes it was when

that was one people uh yes it was when they start from the invasion of uh of uh

they start from the invasion of uh of uh

they start from the invasion of uh of uh uh

uh

uh Tatars of in in the 13th century. Yes.

Tatars of in in the 13th century. Yes.

Tatars of in in the 13th century. Yes. part of Russia was occupied was seized

part of Russia was occupied was seized

part of Russia was occupied was seized by the Tartars. The rest was uh occupied

by the Tartars. The rest was uh occupied

by the Tartars. The rest was uh occupied by Lithuania at that time. It was just

by Lithuania at that time. It was just

by Lithuania at that time. It was just not it has nothing to do with the

not it has nothing to do with the

not it has nothing to do with the present Lithuania, but it was a rather

present Lithuania, but it was a rather

present Lithuania, but it was a rather powerful state. Yeah. So uh two parts of

powerful state. Yeah. So uh two parts of

powerful state. Yeah. So uh two parts of of the present Ukraine they for for some

of the present Ukraine they for for some

of the present Ukraine they for for some time uh developed uh just a bit

time uh developed uh just a bit

time uh developed uh just a bit differently. Yes. uh one under the

differently. Yes. uh one under the

differently. Yes. uh one under the Polish, Lithuanian, then Polish rule,

Polish, Lithuanian, then Polish rule,

Polish, Lithuanian, then Polish rule, this western Ukraine and uh the uh

this western Ukraine and uh the uh

this western Ukraine and uh the uh eastern Ukraine

eastern Ukraine

eastern Ukraine uh was re re unified with Russia in uh

uh was re re unified with Russia in uh

uh was re re unified with Russia in uh 1654

1654

1654 and what is now Lugansk, Danetsk and uh

and what is now Lugansk, Danetsk and uh

and what is now Lugansk, Danetsk and uh southern Ukraine. It was at that time

southern Ukraine. It was at that time

southern Ukraine. It was at that time uninhabited you know just area and no

uninhabited you know just area and no

uninhabited you know just area and no one living there. No, there were some

one living there. No, there were some

one living there. No, there were some tribes, you know, just and it was an

tribes, you know, just and it was an

tribes, you know, just and it was an area in in the 18th century. It became a

area in in the 18th century. It became a

area in in the 18th century. It became a an area of uh

an area of uh

an area of uh uh

uh

uh competition I would say between Russia

competition I would say between Russia

competition I would say between Russia and Turkey. And uh there were wars and

and Turkey. And uh there were wars and

and Turkey. And uh there were wars and uh in in in in the long run this uh area

uh in in in in the long run this uh area

uh in in in in the long run this uh area was uh became part of Russia and it was

was uh became part of Russia and it was

was uh became part of Russia and it was civilized and inhabited by by Russia.

civilized and inhabited by by Russia.

civilized and inhabited by by Russia. you know, Katherine the Great

you know, Katherine the Great

you know, Katherine the Great constructed Harkov, Adessa, Nikolai, uh,

constructed Harkov, Adessa, Nikolai, uh,

constructed Harkov, Adessa, Nikolai, uh, etc., you know, so historically these

etc., you know, so historically these

etc., you know, so historically these parts have nothing to do with Ukraine.

parts have nothing to do with Ukraine.

parts have nothing to do with Ukraine. But when when the Soviet Union uh

But when when the Soviet Union uh

But when when the Soviet Union uh collapsed and Ukraine became an

collapsed and Ukraine became an

collapsed and Ukraine became an independent state, certainly it was it

independent state, certainly it was it

independent state, certainly it was it was I would say well

was I would say well

was I would say well not very

not very

not very uh

it was a bit a bit difficult you know

it was a bit a bit difficult you know

it was a bit a bit difficult you know just even even to recognize because

just even even to recognize because

just even even to recognize because there one people one people it was

there one people one people it was

there one people one people it was rather just uh

rather just uh

rather just uh difficult for us to accept but uh anyway

difficult for us to accept but uh anyway

difficult for us to accept but uh anyway but at that time sorry for interrupting

but at that time sorry for interrupting

but at that time sorry for interrupting but at that time so Ukraine became one

but at that time so Ukraine became one

but at that time so Ukraine became one country but there were different

country but there were different

country but there were different languages and different people living no

languages and different people living no

languages and different people living no no there was Ukrainians in in most of

no there was Ukrainians in in most of

no there was Ukrainians in in most of Ukrainians they spoke Russian and they

Ukrainians they spoke Russian and they

Ukrainians they spoke Russian and they still speak Russian yeah and uh uh

still speak Russian yeah and uh uh

still speak Russian yeah and uh uh during the first I would say decade of

during the first I would say decade of

during the first I would say decade of the of their independence.

the of their independence.

the of their independence. Uh Russia fully supported and uh I would

Uh Russia fully supported and uh I would

Uh Russia fully supported and uh I would say uh helped Ukraine in its uh just

say uh helped Ukraine in its uh just

say uh helped Ukraine in its uh just first stage of its independence. I think

first stage of its independence. I think

first stage of its independence. I think Ukraine mainly uh survived uh with the

Ukraine mainly uh survived uh with the

Ukraine mainly uh survived uh with the uh enormous financial material

uh enormous financial material

uh enormous financial material resourceful

resourceful

resourceful uh assistance of Russia. Yeah. And and

uh assistance of Russia. Yeah. And and

uh assistance of Russia. Yeah. And and that time just though though from the

that time just though though from the

that time just though though from the very beginning from the very beginning

very beginning from the very beginning

very beginning from the very beginning uh the west and regrettably I must uh

uh the west and regrettably I must uh

uh the west and regrettably I must uh stress is uh this uh the west started to

stress is uh this uh the west started to

stress is uh this uh the west started to construct or to transfer

construct or to transfer

construct or to transfer uh Ukraine into a kind of an

uh Ukraine into a kind of an

uh Ukraine into a kind of an anti-Russian project you know by

anti-Russian project you know by

anti-Russian project you know by instigating all kind of uh

instigating all kind of uh

instigating all kind of uh uh

uh

uh of uh uh

of uh uh

of uh uh very anti-Russian feelings, you know, by

very anti-Russian feelings, you know, by

very anti-Russian feelings, you know, by uh creating a kind of an artificial and

uh creating a kind of an artificial and

uh creating a kind of an artificial and false history.

false history.

false history. Yeah. by uh

Yeah. by uh

Yeah. by uh uh developing all kind of a sentiments

uh developing all kind of a sentiments

uh developing all kind of a sentiments that that uh were just directed against

that that uh were just directed against

that that uh were just directed against Russia

Russia

Russia in spite of the fact that all of them

in spite of the fact that all of them

in spite of the fact that all of them spoke Russian

spoke Russian

spoke Russian and uh thought Russian but uh

and uh thought Russian but uh

and uh thought Russian but uh stated that were they had nothing to do

stated that were they had nothing to do

stated that were they had nothing to do with Russia. Yeah. This nationalistic

with Russia. Yeah. This nationalistic

with Russia. Yeah. This nationalistic feelings were instigated were

feelings were instigated were

feelings were instigated were instigated. Yeah. And then by whom?

instigated. Yeah. And then by whom?

instigated. Yeah. And then by whom? By by the west I would say by the west

By by the west I would say by the west

By by the west I would say by the west certainly there there were a lot of

certainly there there were a lot of

certainly there there were a lot of nationalists in Ukraine mainly from from

nationalists in Ukraine mainly from from

nationalists in Ukraine mainly from from the western part of it. Mhm. Yeah.

the western part of it. Mhm. Yeah.

the western part of it. Mhm. Yeah. No no no K is a Russian city. Sorry

No no no K is a Russian city. Sorry

No no no K is a Russian city. Sorry or just this part. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

or just this part. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

or just this part. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you know when uh quite a lot of

Because you know when uh quite a lot of

Because you know when uh quite a lot of Ukrainians from that part of the

Ukrainians from that part of the

Ukrainians from that part of the country, they collaborated with uh

country, they collaborated with uh

country, they collaborated with uh Hitler. Mhm. Yeah. And there was this

Hitler. Mhm. Yeah. And there was this

Hitler. Mhm. Yeah. And there was this famous figure Bandera who is now

famous figure Bandera who is now

famous figure Bandera who is now proclaimed uh hero of Ukraine. Yeah. He

proclaimed uh hero of Ukraine. Yeah. He

proclaimed uh hero of Ukraine. Yeah. He was uh one of the close collaborators of

was uh one of the close collaborators of

was uh one of the close collaborators of Hitler and they fought on the within the

Hitler and they fought on the within the

Hitler and they fought on the within the ranks of the of the NATO Germany.

ranks of the of the NATO Germany.

ranks of the of the NATO Germany. But that's the minority. The majority of

But that's the minority. The majority of

But that's the minority. The majority of Ukrainians they felt themselves as as

Ukrainians they felt themselves as as

Ukrainians they felt themselves as as Russians. But you know this these uh uh

Russians. But you know this these uh uh

Russians. But you know this these uh uh feelings were instigated instigated and

feelings were instigated instigated and

feelings were instigated instigated and then the first uh major crisis occurred

then the first uh major crisis occurred

then the first uh major crisis occurred in 2004

in 2004

in 2004 when there was so-called orange

when there was so-called orange

when there was so-called orange revolution

revolution

revolution when the uh elected uh president uh of

when the uh elected uh president uh of

when the uh elected uh president uh of Ukraine Yanukovich was not allowed to

Ukraine Yanukovich was not allowed to

Ukraine Yanukovich was not allowed to take this post and there was just a kind

take this post and there was just a kind

take this post and there was just a kind of a third round of of elections uh that

of a third round of of elections uh that

of a third round of of elections uh that was absolutely unconstitutional

was absolutely unconstitutional

was absolutely unconstitutional and that led to a constant crisis to a

and that led to a constant crisis to a

and that led to a constant crisis to a constant crisis uh within the Ukrainian

constant crisis uh within the Ukrainian

constant crisis uh within the Ukrainian society that was split you know the

society that was split you know the

society that was split you know the people was split

people was split

people was split uh the eastern and southern part of

uh the eastern and southern part of

uh the eastern and southern part of Ukraine they they they didn't accept

Ukraine they they they didn't accept

Ukraine they they they didn't accept this uh

this uh

this uh uh just drift against Russia Uh

uh just drift against Russia Uh

uh just drift against Russia Uh so uh they wanted to to retain uh

so uh they wanted to to retain uh

so uh they wanted to to retain uh brotherly relations and all this

brotherly relations and all this

brotherly relations and all this culminated in 2014

culminated in 2014

culminated in 2014 when uh there is Kudeta

when uh there is Kudeta

when uh there is Kudeta when the legitimate president

when the legitimate president

when the legitimate president Yanukovich. One might have different

Yanukovich. One might have different

Yanukovich. One might have different opinions about his personality,

opinions about his personality,

opinions about his personality, the way how he governed the country,

the way how he governed the country,

the way how he governed the country, but he was a legitimate president.

but he was a legitimate president.

but he was a legitimate president. Yeah. And he was our state in absolutely

Yeah. And he was our state in absolutely

Yeah. And he was our state in absolutely unconstitutional way.

unconstitutional way.

unconstitutional way. And uh uh

And uh uh

And uh uh and uh then then very extremely

and uh then then very extremely

and uh then then very extremely nationalistic uh forces came to power.

nationalistic uh forces came to power.

nationalistic uh forces came to power. And they yes they took the absolutely

And they yes they took the absolutely

And they yes they took the absolutely anti-Russian course and everything they

anti-Russian course and everything they

anti-Russian course and everything they banning the Russian language banning the

banning the Russian language banning the

banning the Russian language banning the Russian culture you know just

Russian culture you know just

Russian culture you know just uh uh undermining this uh common

uh uh undermining this uh common

uh uh undermining this uh common religion you know

religion you know

religion you know Russian Orthodox church positions etc.

Russian Orthodox church positions etc.

Russian Orthodox church positions etc. How did they come to power?

How did they come to power?

How did they come to power? As a kudeta, they ousted they ousted uh

As a kudeta, they ousted they ousted uh

As a kudeta, they ousted they ousted uh Yanukovich

Yanukovich

Yanukovich and uh and there was there was by the

and uh and there was there was by the

and uh and there was there was by the way there was a

way there was a

way there was a uh a guarantee or there were guarantees

uh a guarantee or there were guarantees

uh a guarantee or there were guarantees to given to Yanukovich by France,

to given to Yanukovich by France,

to given to Yanukovich by France, Germany I think and Poland and these

Germany I think and Poland and these

Germany I think and Poland and these guarantees were thrown away the next

guarantees were thrown away the next

guarantees were thrown away the next day. Yeah. It was also by the help um uh

day. Yeah. It was also by the help um uh

day. Yeah. It was also by the help um uh by some some like

by some some like

by some some like Nazi oriented groups as well. Yeah.

Nazi oriented groups as well. Yeah.

Nazi oriented groups as well. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And uh and certainly the uh the

Yeah. And uh and certainly the uh the

Yeah. And uh and certainly the uh the Lugansk and uh uh Detsk regions they

Lugansk and uh uh Detsk regions they

Lugansk and uh uh Detsk regions they didn't accept it. Yeah. They uh resisted

didn't accept it. Yeah. They uh resisted

didn't accept it. Yeah. They uh resisted against this uh nationalistic policy

against this uh nationalistic policy

against this uh nationalistic policy against uh this just uh banning of all

against uh this just uh banning of all

against uh this just uh banning of all Russians and they were immediately

Russians and they were immediately

Russians and they were immediately proclaimed terrorists

proclaimed terrorists

proclaimed terrorists and uh the government uh ke regime

and uh the government uh ke regime

and uh the government uh ke regime started so-called anti-terrorist

started so-called anti-terrorist

started so-called anti-terrorist operation

operation

operation by brutally suppressing

by brutally suppressing

by brutally suppressing these parts of the country. A lot of

these parts of the country. A lot of

these parts of the country. A lot of people say that that whole operation um

people say that that whole operation um

people say that that whole operation um the whole that what you just just

the whole that what you just just

the whole that what you just just described was also instigated and helped

described was also instigated and helped

described was also instigated and helped by the CIA as well. Yeah, certainly

by the CIA as well. Yeah, certainly

by the CIA as well. Yeah, certainly certainly. And you know there is a

certainly. And you know there is a

certainly. And you know there is a famous famous uh photos and uh videos of

famous famous uh photos and uh videos of

famous famous uh photos and uh videos of an infamous figure uh Victoria Nuland

an infamous figure uh Victoria Nuland

an infamous figure uh Victoria Nuland who was assistant secretary of state of

who was assistant secretary of state of

who was assistant secretary of state of at that time of the United States who

at that time of the United States who

at that time of the United States who were just in the crowd were just

were just in the crowd were just

were just in the crowd were just instigating people to to

instigating people to to

instigating people to to uh to revolt you know

uh to revolt you know

uh to revolt you know against against uh the uh the legitimate

against against uh the uh the legitimate

against against uh the uh the legitimate president of that time. So that that

president of that time. So that that

president of that time. So that that just uh caused a kind of a civil

just uh caused a kind of a civil

just uh caused a kind of a civil conflict, you know, civil conflict and

conflict, you know, civil conflict and

conflict, you know, civil conflict and uh the uh population of uh Dets and

uh the uh population of uh Dets and

uh the uh population of uh Dets and Lugansk was brutally suppressed. And

Lugansk was brutally suppressed. And

Lugansk was brutally suppressed. And when the uh when we hear that the war

when the uh when we hear that the war

when the uh when we hear that the war started in 2022, that's not correct. Uh

started in 2022, that's not correct. Uh

started in 2022, that's not correct. Uh the uh war started in 2014

the uh war started in 2014

the uh war started in 2014 and uh since I think

and uh since I think

and uh since I think uh from 2014 until 2022

uh from 2014 until 2022

uh from 2014 until 2022 about 9,000 civilians were killed. No

about 9,000 civilians were killed. No

about 9,000 civilians were killed. No one now just no one mentioned them. But

one now just no one mentioned them. But

one now just no one mentioned them. But uh these people who were killed by by

uh these people who were killed by by

uh these people who were killed by by the by the key forces you know since

the by the key forces you know since

the by the key forces you know since 2020 uh since 2014 yeah just just this

2020 uh since 2014 yeah just just this

2020 uh since 2014 yeah just just this period from 14 to 22 9,000 people

period from 14 to 22 9,000 people

period from 14 to 22 9,000 people already. Yeah. Yeah. 9,000 civilians and

already. Yeah. Yeah. 9,000 civilians and

already. Yeah. Yeah. 9,000 civilians and that's very modest figure I would say in

that's very modest figure I would say in

that's very modest figure I would say in in reality this is this figure is much

in reality this is this figure is much

in reality this is this figure is much bigger you know but this is official

bigger you know but this is official

bigger you know but this is official figure. Yeah. Yeah. So you know and and

figure. Yeah. Yeah. So you know and and

figure. Yeah. Yeah. So you know and and we we we

we we we

we we we there were constant bombardments,

there were constant bombardments,

there were constant bombardments, shelling of of Lugansk and Detsk by uh

shelling of of Lugansk and Detsk by uh

shelling of of Lugansk and Detsk by uh by the Ukrainian forces and uh President

by the Ukrainian forces and uh President

by the Ukrainian forces and uh President Parashanka at that time. He he declared,

Parashanka at that time. He he declared,

Parashanka at that time. He he declared, "Our children will go to kindergartens,

"Our children will go to kindergartens,

"Our children will go to kindergartens, but their children will stay in basement

but their children will stay in basement

but their children will stay in basement forever." And these their children, they

forever." And these their children, they

forever." And these their children, they were children of Danetsk and Lugansk,

were children of Danetsk and Lugansk,

were children of Danetsk and Lugansk, citizens of of Ukraine at that time, you

citizens of of Ukraine at that time, you

citizens of of Ukraine at that time, you know,

know,

know, uh and uh when when when it uh became

uh and uh when when when it uh became

uh and uh when when when it uh became evident in 2015 and by the end of 2014

evident in 2015 and by the end of 2014

evident in 2015 and by the end of 2014 that uh there uh

that uh there uh

that uh there uh Ke was not in a position to suppress

Ke was not in a position to suppress

Ke was not in a position to suppress Detsk and Logansk. Then these Minsk

Detsk and Logansk. Then these Minsk

Detsk and Logansk. Then these Minsk agreements came

agreements came

agreements came and uh these were uh you know

and uh these were uh you know

and uh these were uh you know rather rather reasonable agreements.

rather rather reasonable agreements.

rather rather reasonable agreements. it uh that uh uh envisaged the uh

it uh that uh uh envisaged the uh

it uh that uh uh envisaged the uh certainly the end of hostilities uh the

uh just with withdrawal of heavy weapons

uh just with withdrawal of heavy weapons

uh just with withdrawal of heavy weapons from that region. But most important,

from that region. But most important,

from that region. But most important, the a constitutional reform in Ukraine

the a constitutional reform in Ukraine

the a constitutional reform in Ukraine that uh uh could grant uh uh certain

that uh uh could grant uh uh certain

that uh uh could grant uh uh certain part of autonomy to Detsk and Lugansk

part of autonomy to Detsk and Lugansk

part of autonomy to Detsk and Lugansk and certainly that can guarantee the

and certainly that can guarantee the

and certainly that can guarantee the status of the Russian language as the

status of the Russian language as the

status of the Russian language as the second official language.

second official language.

second official language. It's no it, you know, it's it was

It's no it, you know, it's it was

It's no it, you know, it's it was reasonable reasonable agreements like

reasonable reasonable agreements like

reasonable reasonable agreements like like for instance they're very similar

like for instance they're very similar

like for instance they're very similar to Dayton agreements in in in Bosnia

to Dayton agreements in in in Bosnia

to Dayton agreements in in in Bosnia that were signed in I think in 19 94 and

that were signed in I think in 19 94 and

that were signed in I think in 19 94 and that are still still just preserve peace

that are still still just preserve peace

that are still still just preserve peace in this region. Mhm. What kind of

in this region. Mhm. What kind of

in this region. Mhm. What kind of autonomy would those regions get like

autonomy would those regions get like

autonomy would those regions get like what what kind of autonomy did they

what what kind of autonomy did they

what what kind of autonomy did they want? cultural autonomy and certainly

want? cultural autonomy and certainly

want? cultural autonomy and certainly they can elect their own

they can elect their own

they can elect their own governments, their own just legislative

governments, their own just legislative

governments, their own just legislative bodies. It's a kind of a

bodies. It's a kind of a

bodies. It's a kind of a federative state, you know, but they

federative state, you know, but they

federative state, you know, but they would still be Ukraine. Yeah. Yeah.

would still be Ukraine. Yeah. Yeah.

would still be Ukraine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Within the Ukraine. Within the

Yeah. Within the Ukraine. Within the

Yeah. Within the Ukraine. Within the Ukraine. Yeah. And uh these uh these uh

Ukraine. Yeah. And uh these uh these uh

Ukraine. Yeah. And uh these uh these uh these agreements were endorsed by the

these agreements were endorsed by the

these agreements were endorsed by the resolution of the security council.

resolution of the security council.

resolution of the security council. But they were never implemented. Never

But they were never implemented. Never

But they were never implemented. Never implemented. And

implemented. And

implemented. And it's when I hear now that the western uh

it's when I hear now that the western uh

it's when I hear now that the western uh uh statesmen say that Russia somehow

uh statesmen say that Russia somehow

uh statesmen say that Russia somehow didn't implement them. I would like to

didn't implement them. I would like to

didn't implement them. I would like to rem remind the rather cynical admission

rem remind the rather cynical admission

rem remind the rather cynical admission of uh former president of France

of uh former president of France

of uh former president of France and former chancellor of Germany,

and former chancellor of Germany,

and former chancellor of Germany, Madame Merkel and former president of

Madame Merkel and former president of

Madame Merkel and former president of Ukraine Poroshena who said, "Oh no, we

Ukraine Poroshena who said, "Oh no, we

Ukraine Poroshena who said, "Oh no, we never intended to uh implement these uh

never intended to uh implement these uh

never intended to uh implement these uh agreements because they say that yeah

agreements because they say that yeah

agreements because they say that yeah they said it openly. you know in an

they said it openly. you know in an

they said it openly. you know in an interview it's absolutely accessible to

interview it's absolutely accessible to

interview it's absolutely accessible to to anyone just looking in in internet

to anyone just looking in in internet

to anyone just looking in in internet you'll find it. Yeah. Uh we it was a of

you'll find it. Yeah. Uh we it was a of

you'll find it. Yeah. Uh we it was a of kind of a time gaining exercise.

kind of a time gaining exercise.

kind of a time gaining exercise. We needed this agreement to

We needed this agreement to

We needed this agreement to restructure our armed forces to just to

restructure our armed forces to just to

restructure our armed forces to just to gain some strength to gain time and then

gain some strength to gain time and then

gain some strength to gain time and then to

to

to start again this operation against uh

start again this operation against uh

start again this operation against uh Bugansk and Detsk.

Bugansk and Detsk.

Bugansk and Detsk. So no and uh this operation uh these uh

So no and uh this operation uh these uh

So no and uh this operation uh these uh hostilities uh uh became even more

hostilities uh uh became even more

hostilities uh uh became even more brutal by 2021.

brutal by 2021.

brutal by 2021. And you know uh and all these uh

And you know uh and all these uh

And you know uh and all these uh hostilities, all these uh atrocities

hostilities, all these uh atrocities

hostilities, all these uh atrocities were accompanied by the declaration of

were accompanied by the declaration of

were accompanied by the declaration of uh at that time already uh uh

president of of Ukraine uh uh who said

president of of Ukraine uh uh who said

president of of Ukraine uh uh who said that we want to

that we want to

that we want to withdraw from Budapest memorandum.

withdraw from Budapest memorandum.

withdraw from Budapest memorandum. that banned the uh the acquisition of

that banned the uh the acquisition of

that banned the uh the acquisition of Ukraine of nuclear weapons. We want to

Ukraine of nuclear weapons. We want to

Ukraine of nuclear weapons. We want to be a nuclear country.

be a nuclear country.

be a nuclear country. Yeah. And uh that was stated uh at I

Yeah. And uh that was stated uh at I

Yeah. And uh that was stated uh at I think in in Munich during the

think in in Munich during the

think in in Munich during the conference.

conference.

conference. And uh

And uh

And uh uh

uh

uh simultaneously

simultaneously

simultaneously uh it was absolutely clear that they

uh it was absolutely clear that they

uh it was absolutely clear that they were preparing a huge offensive against

were preparing a huge offensive against

were preparing a huge offensive against Logansk and Danetsk by uh March 2022.

So

So

So we were just forced to start our just

we were just forced to start our just

we were just forced to start our just operation. We had no other choice. It

operation. We had no other choice. It

operation. We had no other choice. It was not our best choice I would say but

was not our best choice I would say but

was not our best choice I would say but we didn't have other choice you know to

we didn't have other choice you know to

we didn't have other choice you know to stop it because no no no any any

stop it because no no no any any

stop it because no no no any any responsible

responsible

responsible state can afford to have such an

state can afford to have such an

state can afford to have such an aggressive neighbor on its southern

aggressive neighbor on its southern

aggressive neighbor on its southern border.

border.

border. But even even by the very last moment we

But even even by the very last moment we

But even even by the very last moment we tried to uh agree with the west on uh

tried to uh agree with the west on uh

tried to uh agree with the west on uh the political settlement

the political settlement

the political settlement and now uh we uh presented uh uh

and now uh we uh presented uh uh

and now uh we uh presented uh uh two draft agreements to the United

two draft agreements to the United

two draft agreements to the United States and to NATO on security

States and to NATO on security

States and to NATO on security guarantees

guarantees

guarantees and our our MSRs uh our deputy ministers

and our our MSRs uh our deputy ministers

and our our MSRs uh our deputy ministers They visited Brussels. They visited uh

They visited Brussels. They visited uh

They visited Brussels. They visited uh Washington.

Washington.

Washington. They tried to persuade just to go ahead

They tried to persuade just to go ahead

They tried to persuade just to go ahead with with uh with uh these uh

with with uh with uh these uh

with with uh with uh these uh documents at least to discuss them. What

documents at least to discuss them. What

documents at least to discuss them. What what was in that proposal?

what was in that proposal?

what was in that proposal? Well,

Well,

Well, some basic elements. First of all, the

some basic elements. First of all, the

some basic elements. First of all, the uh the uh the guarantees that uh Ukraine

uh the uh the guarantees that uh Ukraine

uh the uh the guarantees that uh Ukraine will not join NATO.

will not join NATO.

will not join NATO. Then uh kind of a you know just security

Then uh kind of a you know just security

Then uh kind of a you know just security arrangements on this uh western border

arrangements on this uh western border

arrangements on this uh western border Russia with NATO. Yeah. some

Russia with NATO. Yeah. some

Russia with NATO. Yeah. some just there were quite quite a lot of

just there were quite quite a lot of

just there were quite quite a lot of items but uh they were not even

items but uh they were not even

items but uh they were not even discussed you know not even they were

discussed you know not even they were

discussed you know not even they were just thrown away. Yeah. And certainly if

just thrown away. Yeah. And certainly if

just thrown away. Yeah. And certainly if uh this if uh this uh

uh this if uh this uh

uh this if uh this uh dialogue

dialogue

dialogue uh started at that time perhaps

uh started at that time perhaps

uh started at that time perhaps or I'm sure the situation would be

or I'm sure the situation would be

or I'm sure the situation would be different

different

different and even after the uh after the start of

and even after the uh after the start of

and even after the uh after the start of the uh military operation in March 2022

the uh military operation in March 2022

the uh military operation in March 2022 we had

we had

we had peaceful contacts with the Ukraine in in

peaceful contacts with the Ukraine in in

peaceful contacts with the Ukraine in in Istanbul

Istanbul

Istanbul and we were on the verge of signing an

and we were on the verge of signing an

and we were on the verge of signing an agreement

agreement

agreement in March 22. In March 22. Yeah. And it

in March 22. In March 22. Yeah. And it

in March 22. In March 22. Yeah. And it was also very favorable for for Ukraine

was also very favorable for for Ukraine

was also very favorable for for Ukraine because you know at that time what we

because you know at that time what we

because you know at that time what we wanted we we wanted also the neutral

wanted we we wanted also the neutral

wanted we we wanted also the neutral status of Ukraine non-aligned neutral

status of Ukraine non-aligned neutral

status of Ukraine non-aligned neutral status the recognition of the Russian

status the recognition of the Russian

status the recognition of the Russian language

language

language the uh and we didn't even insist at that

the uh and we didn't even insist at that

the uh and we didn't even insist at that time on the autonomy of Logansk and

time on the autonomy of Logansk and

time on the autonomy of Logansk and Detsk on the independence of Logansk and

Detsk on the independence of Logansk and

Detsk on the independence of Logansk and Detsk you know and u so But uh and the

Detsk you know and u so But uh and the

Detsk you know and u so But uh and the Ukrainian side was almost ready to to to

Ukrainian side was almost ready to to to

Ukrainian side was almost ready to to to accept it. But then it was also

accept it. But then it was also

accept it. But then it was also recognized by by

recognized by by

recognized by by in many interviews the uh British uh

in many interviews the uh British uh

in many interviews the uh British uh prime minister Mr. Boris Johnson

prime minister Mr. Boris Johnson

prime minister Mr. Boris Johnson called

called

called uh President Zelinski and said no no no

uh President Zelinski and said no no no

uh President Zelinski and said no no no go on fighting. So you think Silinski

go on fighting. So you think Silinski

go on fighting. So you think Silinski was ready to sign the deal and Boris

was ready to sign the deal and Boris

was ready to sign the deal and Boris Johnson was intruding? That's that's how

Johnson was intruding? That's that's how

Johnson was intruding? That's that's how how how the situation is seen now, you

how how the situation is seen now, you

how how the situation is seen now, you know.

know.

know. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Now uh now uh uh we we we we see

Yeah. Now uh now uh uh we we we we see

Yeah. Now uh now uh uh we we we we see that uh this uh especially with the new

that uh this uh especially with the new

that uh this uh especially with the new American administration that is more I

American administration that is more I

American administration that is more I would say realistic in its approach to

would say realistic in its approach to

would say realistic in its approach to the situation and uh with President

the situation and uh with President

the situation and uh with President Trump who

Trump who

Trump who sincerely wants to be

sincerely wants to be

sincerely wants to be to have peace to achieve peace. We see

to have peace to achieve peace. We see

to have peace to achieve peace. We see the situation certainly different and uh

the situation certainly different and uh

the situation certainly different and uh we it was Russia that uh proposed this

we it was Russia that uh proposed this

we it was Russia that uh proposed this uh peace talks with Ukraine and there

uh peace talks with Ukraine and there

uh peace talks with Ukraine and there were already two rounds of of uh these

were already two rounds of of uh these

were already two rounds of of uh these talks

talks

talks contacts and uh and was there was a

contacts and uh and was there was a

contacts and uh and was there was a memorandum

memorandum

memorandum handed over to the Ukrainian side by the

handed over to the Ukrainian side by the

handed over to the Ukrainian side by the Russian delegation. uh this memorandum

Russian delegation. uh this memorandum

Russian delegation. uh this memorandum was not published so I can only presume

was not published so I can only presume

was not published so I can only presume what uh does it contain but uh it's

what uh does it contain but uh it's

what uh does it contain but uh it's basically I think on the on the it is

basically I think on the on the it is

basically I think on the on the it is based on the proposals of President

based on the proposals of President

based on the proposals of President Putin that was put forward a year ago in

Putin that was put forward a year ago in

Putin that was put forward a year ago in June 2014

June 2014

June 2014 uh 22 in in Moscow when he addressed the

uh 22 in in Moscow when he addressed the

uh 22 in in Moscow when he addressed the staff of the foreign ministry and Uh the

staff of the foreign ministry and Uh the

staff of the foreign ministry and Uh the main the main task for us, the main

main the main task for us, the main

main the main task for us, the main condition for us is to eliminate the

condition for us is to eliminate the

condition for us is to eliminate the core core uh causes of this conflict,

core core uh causes of this conflict,

core core uh causes of this conflict, you know, and what are they? Uh first

you know, and what are they? Uh first

you know, and what are they? Uh first just first uh the recognition certainly

just first uh the recognition certainly

just first uh the recognition certainly of the territories of the territories

of the territories of the territories

of the territories of the territories that joined the Russian Federation and

that joined the Russian Federation and

that joined the Russian Federation and where there were referendas. It's uh

where there were referendas. It's uh

where there were referendas. It's uh certainly Crimea then Logansk Detskia

certainly Crimea then Logansk Detskia

certainly Crimea then Logansk Detskia and Hers regions

and Hers regions

and Hers regions uh then uh the neutrality of uh Ukraine

uh then uh the neutrality of uh Ukraine

uh then uh the neutrality of uh Ukraine uh it's uh non-allian status

uh it's uh non-allian status

uh it's uh non-allian status uh refusal to participate in any

uh refusal to participate in any

uh refusal to participate in any military alliances

military alliances

military alliances uh then certainly non-uclear status of

uh then certainly non-uclear status of

uh then certainly non-uclear status of Ukraine

There should not be any desire to regain

There should not be any desire to regain

There should not be any desire to regain nuclear potential.

nuclear potential.

nuclear potential. Then uh there should be a kind of a

Then uh there should be a kind of a

Then uh there should be a kind of a demilitarization of Ukraine

demilitarization of Ukraine

demilitarization of Ukraine kind of you know just uh number of

kind of you know just uh number of

kind of you know just uh number of number of maximum number of armed forces

number of maximum number of armed forces

number of maximum number of armed forces to be fixed in this agreements. Yeah.

to be fixed in this agreements. Yeah.

to be fixed in this agreements. Yeah. not to not to not to retain this huge

not to not to not to retain this huge

not to not to not to retain this huge military machine that uh Ukraine now

military machine that uh Ukraine now

military machine that uh Ukraine now accumulated with the assistance of of of

accumulated with the assistance of of of

accumulated with the assistance of of of NATO and other countries. Uh then

NATO and other countries. Uh then

NATO and other countries. Uh then official status of the Russian language

official status of the Russian language

official status of the Russian language as a second language at least that

as a second language at least that

as a second language at least that language where people can speak freely.

language where people can speak freely.

language where people can speak freely. No. then certainly uh ban on any

No. then certainly uh ban on any

No. then certainly uh ban on any propaganda or glorification of Nazism

propaganda or glorification of Nazism

propaganda or glorification of Nazism because we know all now that it's now

because we know all now that it's now

because we know all now that it's now flourishing flourishing in the Ukraine.

flourishing flourishing in the Ukraine.

flourishing flourishing in the Ukraine. Yeah. Is it? Is it? Well, it's the fact

Yeah. Is it? Is it? Well, it's the fact

Yeah. Is it? Is it? Well, it's the fact that you are asking this question shows

that you are asking this question shows

that you are asking this question shows that we are not aware but that's the

that we are not aware but that's the

that we are not aware but that's the fact you know there are marches marshes

fact you know there are marches marshes

fact you know there are marches marshes of of of this uh just uh uh ultrainist

of of of this uh just uh uh ultrainist

of of of this uh just uh uh ultrainist uh troops with all these Nazi Nazi

uh troops with all these Nazi Nazi

uh troops with all these Nazi Nazi symbols

and Bandera is a national hero. Shavic

and Bandera is a national hero. Shavic

and Bandera is a national hero. Shavic is a national hero. They were all

is a national hero. They were all

is a national hero. They were all figurants of the Nuremberg process, you

figurants of the Nuremberg process, you

figurants of the Nuremberg process, you know.

know.

know. They were uh

They were uh

They were uh they were uh just

they were uh just

they were uh just guilty of exterminating Jews, Polish and

guilty of exterminating Jews, Polish and

guilty of exterminating Jews, Polish and Polish know about it.

Polish know about it.

Polish know about it. Mhm. Yeah.

Mhm. Yeah.

Mhm. Yeah. Then uh certainly uh lifting of economic

Then uh certainly uh lifting of economic

Then uh certainly uh lifting of economic sanctions against the Russian

sanctions against the Russian

sanctions against the Russian Federation. We we believe that sanctions

Federation. We we believe that sanctions

Federation. We we believe that sanctions do not do any good to both sides. We can

do not do any good to both sides. We can

do not do any good to both sides. We can we can survive you know we we are we are

we can survive you know we we are we are

we can survive you know we we are we are living with the sanctions for some years

living with the sanctions for some years

living with the sanctions for some years now and they certainly it's not uh it's

now and they certainly it's not uh it's

now and they certainly it's not uh it's not something that we are happy with but

not something that we are happy with but

not something that we are happy with but uh it's not a kind of a very dramatic uh

uh it's not a kind of a very dramatic uh

uh it's not a kind of a very dramatic uh dramatic uh I would say factor that

dramatic uh I would say factor that

dramatic uh I would say factor that influences our economy. Our economy is

influences our economy. Our economy is

influences our economy. Our economy is quite solid in spite of all f uh

quite solid in spite of all f uh

quite solid in spite of all f uh sanctions and even even

sanctions and even even

sanctions and even even it uh they do us uh some some good you

it uh they do us uh some some good you

it uh they do us uh some some good you know because it uh sanctions pro

know because it uh sanctions pro

know because it uh sanctions pro prompted the development of domestic

prompted the development of domestic

prompted the development of domestic production.

production.

production. So you

So you

So you do you think now that because of the

do you think now that because of the

do you think now that because of the sanctions you're like you don't think

sanctions you're like you don't think

sanctions you're like you don't think that you feel them at all? No, we feel

that you feel them at all? No, we feel

that you feel them at all? No, we feel them. Certainly, we feel I I would I

them. Certainly, we feel I I would I

them. Certainly, we feel I I would I would not be sincere if I say that we do

would not be sincere if I say that we do

would not be sincere if I say that we do not feel uh for for the ordinary people.

not feel uh for for the ordinary people.

not feel uh for for the ordinary people. No, we do not feel any sanctions. You

No, we do not feel any sanctions. You

No, we do not feel any sanctions. You know, if you go to the streets of

know, if you go to the streets of

know, if you go to the streets of Moscow, no. No. But for the budget, for

Moscow, no. No. But for the budget, for

Moscow, no. No. But for the budget, for the uh economy, for macroeconomy,

the uh economy, for macroeconomy,

the uh economy, for macroeconomy, certainly certainly there are

certainly certainly there are

certainly certainly there are difficulties and certainly there are uh

difficulties and certainly there are uh

difficulties and certainly there are uh considerable difficulty in banking

considerable difficulty in banking

considerable difficulty in banking operations

operations

operations with with uh international financial

with with uh international financial

with with uh international financial transfers, you know. How do you like how

transfers, you know. How do you like how

transfers, you know. How do you like how do you notice difference in that like

do you notice difference in that like

do you notice difference in that like what makes it difficult?

what makes it difficult?

what makes it difficult? For instance, you know, it's it's it's

For instance, you know, it's it's it's

For instance, you know, it's it's it's our embassy here is cannot be adequately

our embassy here is cannot be adequately

our embassy here is cannot be adequately supply financed from Moscow because of

supply financed from Moscow because of

supply financed from Moscow because of all the difficulties in in transfers.

all the difficulties in in transfers.

all the difficulties in in transfers. But that's that's for the embassy. But

But that's that's for the embassy. But

But that's that's for the embassy. But for the for the trade for the big

for the for the trade for the big

for the for the trade for the big companies, you know, they certainly they

companies, you know, they certainly they

companies, you know, they certainly they create the the sanctions create

create the the sanctions create

create the the sanctions create problems. But we are uh we can overcome

problems. But we are uh we can overcome

problems. But we are uh we can overcome them. But it also uh does a lot of harm

them. But it also uh does a lot of harm

them. But it also uh does a lot of harm to European people. Definitely. Yeah.

to European people. Definitely. Yeah.

to European people. Definitely. Yeah. You know this for instance cheap Russian

You know this for instance cheap Russian

You know this for instance cheap Russian gas that was the

gas that was the

gas that was the one of the locomotives of of the

one of the locomotives of of the

one of the locomotives of of the economic growth. Yeah. Both in the

economic growth. Yeah. Both in the

economic growth. Yeah. Both in the Netherlands in in Germany. Now you have

Netherlands in in Germany. Now you have

Netherlands in in Germany. Now you have to buy very expensive gas elsewhere.

to buy very expensive gas elsewhere.

to buy very expensive gas elsewhere. Yeah. or green stuff. Yeah.

Yeah. or green stuff. Yeah.

Yeah. or green stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh sanctions are

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh sanctions are

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh sanctions are these are just a kind of a weapon that

these are just a kind of a weapon that

these are just a kind of a weapon that is uh dangerous to both sides. So,

is uh dangerous to both sides. So,

is uh dangerous to both sides. So, lifting them will be certainly will be

lifting them will be certainly will be

lifting them will be certainly will be in the interest of of all. Yeah. And uh

in the interest of of all. Yeah. And uh

in the interest of of all. Yeah. And uh then

then

then uh

uh

uh certainly family re reunifications

certainly family re reunifications

certainly family re reunifications of families is also very important

of families is also very important

of families is also very important because a lot of families are separated

because a lot of families are separated

because a lot of families are separated you know partly

you know partly

you know partly in Russia

in Russia

in Russia others relatives live in in in the

others relatives live in in in the

others relatives live in in in the Ukraine. It's also very important. Yeah.

Ukraine. It's also very important. Yeah.

Ukraine. It's also very important. Yeah. And uh

The basics

AG1

bacteria and

bacteria and

bacteria and a mix.

Check drink ag.com/trum

five travel packsag.com/truman

the links that oak in in the show notes.

the links that oak in in the show notes.

the links that oak in in the show notes. Uh

Uh

Uh certainly renounce of uh all mutual

certainly renounce of uh all mutual

certainly renounce of uh all mutual uh claims

uh claims

uh claims including legal claims in connection

including legal claims in connection

including legal claims in connection with the damage caused.

with the damage caused.

with the damage caused. And uh uh because we we we

And uh uh because we we we

And uh uh because we we we have a lot of a lot of uh uh losses with

have a lot of a lot of uh uh losses with

have a lot of a lot of uh uh losses with the

the

the uh operations of of Ukraines, especially

uh operations of of Ukraines, especially

uh operations of of Ukraines, especially with all this uh just shelling of of

with all this uh just shelling of of

with all this uh just shelling of of cities in Donbas and Lugansk. And

cities in Donbas and Lugansk. And

cities in Donbas and Lugansk. And certainly when the Ukrainians invaded

certainly when the Ukrainians invaded

certainly when the Ukrainians invaded the Korsk region and part of this they

the Korsk region and part of this they

the Korsk region and part of this they they managed for for a certain period of

they managed for for a certain period of

they managed for for a certain period of time to seize a small part of the Korsk

time to seize a small part of the Korsk

time to seize a small part of the Korsk region. It they they practically

region. It they they practically

region. It they they practically destroyed everything all infrastructure

destroyed everything all infrastructure

destroyed everything all infrastructure there.

there.

there. So we we we

So we we we

So we we we should and we must uh certainly

claim the the uh damage the

claim the the uh damage the

claim the the uh damage the compensation. But on the reciprocal

compensation. But on the reciprocal

compensation. But on the reciprocal basis perhaps we can arrange that these

basis perhaps we can arrange that these

basis perhaps we can arrange that these are these claims are lifted you know and

are these claims are lifted you know and

are these claims are lifted you know and certainly the uh lifting of uh

certainly the uh lifting of uh

certainly the uh lifting of uh restrictions

restrictions

restrictions on the Russian Orthodox Church because

on the Russian Orthodox Church because

on the Russian Orthodox Church because now uh the since

now uh the since

now uh the since since the the u Zalinski came to power

since the the u Zalinski came to power

since the the u Zalinski came to power he he he started to suppress Russian

he he he started to suppress Russian

he he he started to suppress Russian Orthodox church in spite of the fact

Orthodox church in spite of the fact

Orthodox church in spite of the fact that most of the Ukrainians they they

that most of the Ukrainians they they

that most of the Ukrainians they they are Russian Orthodox.

are Russian Orthodox.

are Russian Orthodox. Yeah. And

Yeah. And

Yeah. And so uh you know that's that's probably

so uh you know that's that's probably

so uh you know that's that's probably the

the

the elements of the peace plan that can be

elements of the peace plan that can be

elements of the peace plan that can be discussed. Yeah. So that like in bullet

discussed. Yeah. So that like in bullet

discussed. Yeah. So that like in bullet points points Russia would need to come

points points Russia would need to come

points points Russia would need to come to peace in the region. Yeah. Yeah.

to peace in the region. Yeah. Yeah.

to peace in the region. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And certainly there is now a

Yeah. Yeah. And certainly there is now a

Yeah. Yeah. And certainly there is now a lot of fuss again about Russia Ukrainian

lot of fuss again about Russia Ukrainian

lot of fuss again about Russia Ukrainian summit.

summit.

summit. We are not against it in spite of the

We are not against it in spite of the

We are not against it in spite of the fact that Zalinski is not any more

fact that Zalinski is not any more

fact that Zalinski is not any more legitimate uh president. His his term of

legitimate uh president. His his term of

legitimate uh president. His his term of office expired a year ago. Yeah. This I

office expired a year ago. Yeah. This I

office expired a year ago. Yeah. This I I just found out recently because of he

I just found out recently because of he

I just found out recently because of he because of he claims there the war that

because of he claims there the war that

because of he claims there the war that he can't there can't be any new

he can't there can't be any new

he can't there can't be any new elections at the moment. Yeah. But the

elections at the moment. Yeah. But the

elections at the moment. Yeah. But the constitution doesn't doesn't uh uh uh

constitution doesn't doesn't uh uh uh

constitution doesn't doesn't uh uh uh allow it, you know, just any any

allow it, you know, just any any

allow it, you know, just any any expansion of powers. So the only

expansion of powers. So the only

expansion of powers. So the only legitimate figure now in Ukraine is the

legitimate figure now in Ukraine is the

legitimate figure now in Ukraine is the president of the parliament because at

president of the parliament because at

president of the parliament because at least it was he was elected. Yeah. But

least it was he was elected. Yeah. But

least it was he was elected. Yeah. But anyway, we we we uh we are not against

anyway, we we we uh we are not against

anyway, we we we uh we are not against having this meeting, but it should be

having this meeting, but it should be

having this meeting, but it should be well prepared, you know, not just to

well prepared, you know, not just to

well prepared, you know, not just to meet and uh to to then

meet and uh to to then

meet and uh to to then to say hello and then or or or not say

to say hello and then or or or not say

to say hello and then or or or not say hello and then just uh to go in

hello and then just uh to go in

hello and then just uh to go in different directions that will not uh do

different directions that will not uh do

different directions that will not uh do any good. the uh the summit should be

any good. the uh the summit should be

any good. the uh the summit should be the result of a well uh prepared process

the result of a well uh prepared process

the result of a well uh prepared process of negotiations, you know. Mhm. Yeah.

of negotiations, you know. Mhm. Yeah.

of negotiations, you know. Mhm. Yeah. And uh and what we see also now that the

And uh and what we see also now that the

And uh and what we see also now that the European Union is probably the main

European Union is probably the main

European Union is probably the main obstacle to peace. Why is that? Well, we

obstacle to peace. Why is that? Well, we

obstacle to peace. Why is that? Well, we we hear we we hear the statements of

we hear we we hear the statements of

we hear we we hear the statements of President Mcron of prime minister of the

President Mcron of prime minister of the

President Mcron of prime minister of the United Kingdom. Yeah. of a chancellor of

United Kingdom. Yeah. of a chancellor of

United Kingdom. Yeah. of a chancellor of Germany that they they they say oh no no

Germany that they they they say oh no no

Germany that they they they say oh no no no there should not be any peace talks.

no there should not be any peace talks.

no there should not be any peace talks. There should be ceasefire immediately

There should be ceasefire immediately

There should be ceasefire immediately ceasefire but ceasefire without any

ceasefire but ceasefire without any

ceasefire but ceasefire without any accompanying factors is nothing. You

accompanying factors is nothing. You

accompanying factors is nothing. You know what? Why does Ukraine need

know what? Why does Ukraine need

know what? Why does Ukraine need ceasefire also to to to restore to rearm

ceasefire also to to to restore to rearm

ceasefire also to to to restore to rearm to reorganize to restore its military

to reorganize to restore its military

to reorganize to restore its military potential because it's now losing the

potential because it's now losing the

potential because it's now losing the war. It's evident when uh the

war. It's evident when uh the

war. It's evident when uh the western politicians politicians believed

western politicians politicians believed

western politicians politicians believed that uh the Ukraine could win the war.

that uh the Ukraine could win the war.

that uh the Ukraine could win the war. Yeah. when they just hoped for a

Yeah. when they just hoped for a

Yeah. when they just hoped for a strategic defeat of Russia, they said,

strategic defeat of Russia, they said,

strategic defeat of Russia, they said, "Oh, no, no, no, no ceasefire. No

"Oh, no, no, no, no ceasefire. No

"Oh, no, no, no, no ceasefire. No ceasefire over here. Go on fighting."

ceasefire over here. Go on fighting."

ceasefire over here. Go on fighting." Now, when the situation for Ukraine is

Now, when the situation for Ukraine is

Now, when the situation for Ukraine is uh much worse, they say, "No, no, let's

uh much worse, they say, "No, no, let's

uh much worse, they say, "No, no, let's have ceasefire."

have ceasefire."

have ceasefire." Yeah. But ceasefire by by itself is

Yeah. But ceasefire by by itself is

Yeah. But ceasefire by by itself is nothing. As I had already mentioned, it

nothing. As I had already mentioned, it

nothing. As I had already mentioned, it must be at least accompanied by

must be at least accompanied by

must be at least accompanied by uh uh by

uh uh by

uh uh by uh the uh ban of any any military

uh the uh ban of any any military

uh the uh ban of any any military supplies to Ukraine and uh the

supplies to Ukraine and uh the

supplies to Ukraine and uh the mobilization in Ukraine that is going on

mobilization in Ukraine that is going on

mobilization in Ukraine that is going on should be stopped at least. At least

should be stopped at least. At least

should be stopped at least. At least yeah. So can can you help because um for

yeah. So can can you help because um for

yeah. So can can you help because um for me the the and thanks for like talking

me the the and thanks for like talking

me the the and thanks for like talking about the timeline and stuff but in the

about the timeline and stuff but in the

about the timeline and stuff but in the timeline I miss a point where uh

timeline I miss a point where uh

timeline I miss a point where uh especially in the western media at

especially in the western media at

especially in the western media at certain point we're like but now Russia

certain point we're like but now Russia

certain point we're like but now Russia has invaded for example I don't know how

has invaded for example I don't know how

has invaded for example I don't know how you say it in Russian but the grim

you say it in Russian but the grim

you say it in Russian but the grim um

um

um uh

uh

uh and that was I think one big moment in

and that was I think one big moment in

and that was I think one big moment in western media where they were like okay

western media where they were like okay

western media where they were like okay so now the western the NATO and and and

so now the western the NATO and and and

so now the western the NATO and and and Ukraine should really like get their

Ukraine should really like get their

Ukraine should really like get their foot down and um yeah, Russia never

foot down and um yeah, Russia never

foot down and um yeah, Russia never invaded Crimea, you know. Crimea. Yeah.

invaded Crimea, you know. Crimea. Yeah.

invaded Crimea, you know. Crimea. Yeah. Uh uh uh in 2014

Uh uh uh in 2014

Uh uh uh in 2014 when uh this uh there was a coupar in in

when uh this uh there was a coupar in in

when uh this uh there was a coupar in in Kief. Yeah. Crimea Crimean people,

Kief. Yeah. Crimea Crimean people,

Kief. Yeah. Crimea Crimean people, Crimean Parliament

Crimean Parliament

Crimean Parliament proclaimed independence,

proclaimed independence,

proclaimed independence, you know, without certainly there were

you know, without certainly there were

you know, without certainly there were no Russian troops that there at that

no Russian troops that there at that

no Russian troops that there at that time. Yeah. Uh and and then then there

time. Yeah. Uh and and then then there

time. Yeah. Uh and and then then there was a referendum and by referendum it

was a referendum and by referendum it

was a referendum and by referendum it joined uh

joined uh

joined uh joint Russian Federation. You know it

joint Russian Federation. You know it

joint Russian Federation. You know it was absolutely legal way. Legal way

was absolutely legal way. Legal way

was absolutely legal way. Legal way they say about Kosovo. Yeah. In Kosovo

they say about Kosovo. Yeah. In Kosovo

they say about Kosovo. Yeah. In Kosovo there was never a referendum but in

there was never a referendum but in

there was never a referendum but in Crimea there was a referendum. The same

Crimea there was a referendum. The same

Crimea there was a referendum. The same referendum was in Logans, Dan, Zero, and

referendum was in Logans, Dan, Zero, and

referendum was in Logans, Dan, Zero, and Erson. Yeah. People proclaimed there,

Erson. Yeah. People proclaimed there,

Erson. Yeah. People proclaimed there, they they expressed their will and then

they they expressed their will and then

they they expressed their will and then you know when when uh the western u

you know when when uh the western u

you know when when uh the western u countries speak about the United Nations

countries speak about the United Nations

countries speak about the United Nations charter. Yeah. Well, the charter was was

charter. Yeah. Well, the charter was was

charter. Yeah. Well, the charter was was violated the right of uh the territorial

violated the right of uh the territorial

violated the right of uh the territorial integrity. Yeah. But uh the uh

integrity. Yeah. But uh the uh

integrity. Yeah. But uh the uh principles and norms of the United

principles and norms of the United

principles and norms of the United Nations charter they must be read in

Nations charter they must be read in

Nations charter they must be read in their entirety. You know you cannot just

their entirety. You know you cannot just

their entirety. You know you cannot just single out one principle. For instance,

single out one principle. For instance,

single out one principle. For instance, there is yes, there is a principle of

there is yes, there is a principle of

there is yes, there is a principle of territorial integrity, but there is a

territorial integrity, but there is a

territorial integrity, but there is a principle of self-determination

principle of self-determination

principle of self-determination that is equally important,

that is equally important,

that is equally important, you know, and these people of all these

you know, and these people of all these

you know, and these people of all these regions, they exercised their right to

regions, they exercised their right to

regions, they exercised their right to self-determination. There was absolutely

self-determination. There was absolutely

self-determination. There was absolutely no no pressure on them. They they they

no no pressure on them. They they they

no no pressure on them. They they they are all Russians. They they feel

are all Russians. They they feel

are all Russians. They they feel Russians. They want to be with Russia.

Russians. They want to be with Russia.

Russians. They want to be with Russia. They won't speak Russian, feel Russian,

They won't speak Russian, feel Russian,

They won't speak Russian, feel Russian, see Russian films, you know, read

see Russian films, you know, read

see Russian films, you know, read Russian books. They do not want to be

Russian books. They do not want to be

Russian books. They do not want to be Ukrainians as as as Ukrainian is now

Ukrainians as as as Ukrainian is now

Ukrainians as as as Ukrainian is now posing themselves as something

posing themselves as something

posing themselves as something something, you know, that has nothing to

something, you know, that has nothing to

something, you know, that has nothing to do with Russia. Yeah. And that's that's

do with Russia. Yeah. And that's that's

do with Russia. Yeah. And that's that's that's it. That's it. That's it.

that's it. That's it. That's it.

that's it. That's it. That's it. And is there a group of people in

And is there a group of people in

And is there a group of people in Ukraine um who because I know some

Ukraine um who because I know some

Ukraine um who because I know some people from the Ukraine from the

people from the Ukraine from the

people from the Ukraine from the Netherlands for example like well-known

Netherlands for example like well-known

Netherlands for example like well-known people as well um and they like

people as well um and they like

people as well um and they like obviously they also um look at this

obviously they also um look at this

obviously they also um look at this whole conflict like from a different

whole conflict like from a different

whole conflict like from a different point of view and they uh they also say

point of view and they uh they also say

point of view and they uh they also say that but there's also a big group of

that but there's also a big group of

that but there's also a big group of people who don't want to like who don't

people who don't want to like who don't

people who don't want to like who don't feel that Russian they do feel uh more

feel that Russian they do feel uh more

feel that Russian they do feel uh more like whatever European or whatever they

like whatever European or whatever they

like whatever European or whatever they they call it, but they they don't feel

they call it, but they they don't feel

they call it, but they they don't feel that Russian as you describe a lot of

that Russian as you describe a lot of

that Russian as you describe a lot of people in your uh yes maybe certainly

people in your uh yes maybe certainly

people in your uh yes maybe certainly certainly certainly certainly then then

certainly certainly certainly then then

certainly certainly certainly then then uh well

uh let them live in that part of Ukraine

uh let them live in that part of Ukraine

uh let them live in that part of Ukraine that is uh that will be we do not have

that is uh that will be we do not have

that is uh that will be we do not have no intentions to occupy the whole

no intentions to occupy the whole

no intentions to occupy the whole Ukraine you know just to and we do not

Ukraine you know just to and we do not

Ukraine you know just to and we do not want uh to just to to destroy this this

want uh to just to to destroy this this

want uh to just to to destroy this this state as a whole, you know, we

state as a whole, you know, we

state as a whole, you know, we understand that in the west of Ukraine,

understand that in the west of Ukraine,

understand that in the west of Ukraine, people feel differently. Yeah. They

people feel differently. Yeah. They

people feel differently. Yeah. They always felt differently. Okay. Okay. Let

always felt differently. Okay. Okay. Let

always felt differently. Okay. Okay. Let them let them live there that let them

them let them live there that let them

them let them live there that let them uh feel themselves as as something

uh feel themselves as as something

uh feel themselves as as something different. But uh what we insist on that

different. But uh what we insist on that

different. But uh what we insist on that they they should not pose any threat to

they they should not pose any threat to

they they should not pose any threat to Russia, you know. Mhm. We are not going

Russia, you know. Mhm. We are not going

Russia, you know. Mhm. We are not going to to pose any threat to them if there

to to pose any threat to them if there

to to pose any threat to them if there is a political settlement.

is a political settlement.

is a political settlement. I I I I believe I hope and I'm sure that

I I I I believe I hope and I'm sure that

I I I I believe I hope and I'm sure that time will come that Russia and Ukraine

time will come that Russia and Ukraine

time will come that Russia and Ukraine will live as good neighbors

will live as good neighbors

will live as good neighbors as they always did actually. Yeah. Yeah.

as they always did actually. Yeah. Yeah.

as they always did actually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Can we do a short toilet

Yeah. Yeah. Can we do a short toilet

Yeah. Yeah. Can we do a short toilet break? Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

break? Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

break? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. So to me it sounds like um obviously

So to me it sounds like um obviously

So to me it sounds like um obviously that's with every conflict I would say

that's with every conflict I would say

that's with every conflict I would say like it's such a difficult situation

like it's such a difficult situation

like it's such a difficult situation now. Maybe it it's not so difficult but

now. Maybe it it's not so difficult but

now. Maybe it it's not so difficult but it it seems so difficult because it's

it it seems so difficult because it's

it it seems so difficult because it's it's actually so old. Yeah. It's been

it's actually so old. Yeah. It's been

it's actually so old. Yeah. It's been for such a long time and now we're just

for such a long time and now we're just

for such a long time and now we're just in in the last like 5% part of it but we

in in the last like 5% part of it but we

in in the last like 5% part of it but we people forget like the whole history and

people forget like the whole history and

people forget like the whole history and all 95% which came um until we are here

all 95% which came um until we are here

all 95% which came um until we are here now in this 5%.

now in this 5%.

now in this 5%. But somehow I I I think that um before

But somehow I I I think that um before

But somehow I I I think that um before there's really a solution,

there's really a solution,

there's really a solution, people should understand the 95% as well

people should understand the 95% as well

people should understand the 95% as well because without understanding the other

because without understanding the other

because without understanding the other 95% it's it's almost impossible to come

95% it's it's almost impossible to come

95% it's it's almost impossible to come to a good solution because you you will

to a good solution because you you will

to a good solution because you you will never understand the whole picture and

never understand the whole picture and

never understand the whole picture and the whole story. So do you think that

the whole story. So do you think that

the whole story. So do you think that there will be a solution or is it

there will be a solution or is it

there will be a solution or is it possible even to to some kind of

possible even to to some kind of

possible even to to some kind of solution? I hope so. I hope so. Yes. And

solution? I hope so. I hope so. Yes. And

solution? I hope so. I hope so. Yes. And uh you you rightly mentioned that in

uh you you rightly mentioned that in

uh you you rightly mentioned that in order to find a solution you should

order to find a solution you should

order to find a solution you should understand the I would say the core

understand the I would say the core

understand the I would say the core reasons of the conflict and to eliminate

reasons of the conflict and to eliminate

reasons of the conflict and to eliminate them. That's what we want you know and

them. That's what we want you know and

them. That's what we want you know and if uh these uh

if uh these uh

if uh these uh just uh reasons of this conflict are are

just uh reasons of this conflict are are

just uh reasons of this conflict are are eliminated

eliminated

eliminated then uh there will be there will be a

then uh there will be there will be a

then uh there will be there will be a peaceful solution. I hope so. I hope so.

peaceful solution. I hope so. I hope so.

peaceful solution. I hope so. I hope so. I am. Isn't it part of the problem? Like

I am. Isn't it part of the problem? Like

I am. Isn't it part of the problem? Like is it's it's obviously everything what

is it's it's obviously everything what

is it's it's obviously everything what going on in in in Ukraine for the for

going on in in in Ukraine for the for

going on in in in Ukraine for the for the past years and and the decades

the past years and and the decades

the past years and and the decades before, but isn't it as I think you

before, but isn't it as I think you

before, but isn't it as I think you explained earlier as well, isn't one of

explained earlier as well, isn't one of

explained earlier as well, isn't one of the big uh reasons of this conflict as

the big uh reasons of this conflict as

the big uh reasons of this conflict as well is the expansion of NATO and they

well is the expansion of NATO and they

well is the expansion of NATO and they always wanted to expand. Yeah. Yeah.

always wanted to expand. Yeah. Yeah.

always wanted to expand. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, one of the perhaps one

Well, you know, one of the perhaps one

Well, you know, one of the perhaps one of the

of the

of the uh main reasons of the conflict, yes,

uh main reasons of the conflict, yes,

uh main reasons of the conflict, yes, that uh NATO

that uh NATO

that uh NATO wanted to have Ukraine in its ranks, at

wanted to have Ukraine in its ranks, at

wanted to have Ukraine in its ranks, at least previously. Now I think uh uh some

least previously. Now I think uh uh some

least previously. Now I think uh uh some NATO members including President Trump

NATO members including President Trump

NATO members including President Trump they said no we we we we will not uh be

they said no we we we we will not uh be

they said no we we we we will not uh be willing to to admit Ukraine because they

willing to to admit Ukraine because they

willing to to admit Ukraine because they understand all the problems that they

understand all the problems that they

understand all the problems that they will face with the with the admission of

will face with the with the admission of

will face with the with the admission of Ukraine. But uh certainly it started in

Ukraine. But uh certainly it started in

Ukraine. But uh certainly it started in the in the early

the in the early

the in the early years of this century when uh some

years of this century when uh some

years of this century when uh some forces in Ukraine wanted to join NATO

forces in Ukraine wanted to join NATO

forces in Ukraine wanted to join NATO and uh western countries really wanted

and uh western countries really wanted

and uh western countries really wanted to have NATO in Ukraine in in their

to have NATO in Ukraine in in their

to have NATO in Ukraine in in their ranks. And for us it's a you know it's a

ranks. And for us it's a you know it's a

ranks. And for us it's a you know it's a it's a direct threat. It's a direct

it's a direct threat. It's a direct

it's a direct threat. It's a direct threat.

threat.

threat. We cannot we cannot allow it just since

We cannot we cannot allow it just since

We cannot we cannot allow it just since since certainly if the time comes when

since certainly if the time comes when

since certainly if the time comes when NATO somehow changes

NATO somehow changes

NATO somehow changes and uh uh will no longer proclaim Russia

and uh uh will no longer proclaim Russia

and uh uh will no longer proclaim Russia as a existential threat

as a existential threat

as a existential threat and uh stop its war preparations.

and uh stop its war preparations.

and uh stop its war preparations. But there will be in this case there

But there will be in this case there

But there will be in this case there will be no reason for the existence of

will be no reason for the existence of

will be no reason for the existence of NATO you know. M yeah European Union

NATO you know. M yeah European Union

NATO you know. M yeah European Union will be quite enough for for Europe just

will be quite enough for for Europe just

will be quite enough for for Europe just to to to

to to to

to to to accumulate their their positions their

accumulate their their positions their

accumulate their their positions their approaches. Uh NATO is an aggressive is

approaches. Uh NATO is an aggressive is

approaches. Uh NATO is an aggressive is an aggressive block by

an aggressive block by

an aggressive block by per se by definition you know it was

per se by definition you know it was

per se by definition you know it was created as an aggressive block as a

created as an aggressive block as a

created as an aggressive block as a military

military

military uh block to oppose

uh block to oppose

uh block to oppose at that time Soviet Union now there is

at that time Soviet Union now there is

at that time Soviet Union now there is no Soviet Union so Russia wasn't there a

no Soviet Union so Russia wasn't there a

no Soviet Union so Russia wasn't there a time that Russia was thinking about or

time that Russia was thinking about or

time that Russia was thinking about or maybe wanting to join NATO as well well

maybe wanting to join NATO as well well

maybe wanting to join NATO as well well there was time Yes, it was in the '9s.

there was time Yes, it was in the '9s.

there was time Yes, it was in the '9s. No, we seriously we didn't uh want to

No, we seriously we didn't uh want to

No, we seriously we didn't uh want to join NATO. It was

join NATO. It was

join NATO. It was speculations in the press, but we had

speculations in the press, but we had

speculations in the press, but we had good relations with at least with the

good relations with at least with the

good relations with at least with the headquarters, you know, and we had uh

headquarters, you know, and we had uh

headquarters, you know, and we had uh even a treaty that is still in force uh

even a treaty that is still in force uh

even a treaty that is still in force uh that uh rules the the the

that uh rules the the the

that uh rules the the the relations between Russia and NATO.

relations between Russia and NATO.

relations between Russia and NATO. Certainly it's not applicable now. It's

Certainly it's not applicable now. It's

Certainly it's not applicable now. It's a it's a dead treaty I would say. But uh

a it's a dead treaty I would say. But uh

a it's a dead treaty I would say. But uh it exists.

it exists.

it exists. It exists because for me it's like how

It exists because for me it's like how

It exists because for me it's like how can you end in conflict when you have if

can you end in conflict when you have if

can you end in conflict when you have if it's true what you're stating that NATO

it's true what you're stating that NATO

it's true what you're stating that NATO is like always expanding and wanting to

is like always expanding and wanting to

is like always expanding and wanting to expand and that's well what we can see

expand and that's well what we can see

expand and that's well what we can see the last couple of years I would say.

the last couple of years I would say.

the last couple of years I would say. Um, and if their goal is still like

Um, and if their goal is still like

Um, and if their goal is still like being that aggressive block which

being that aggressive block which

being that aggressive block which expands all the time, like the only

expands all the time, like the only

expands all the time, like the only solution for ending a conflict like this

solution for ending a conflict like this

solution for ending a conflict like this is to change the way NATO views the

is to change the way NATO views the

is to change the way NATO views the world and themselves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

world and themselves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

world and themselves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. That's that's what they need, you

Yes. That's that's what they need, you

Yes. That's that's what they need, you know. They should not they should stop

know. They should not they should stop

know. They should not they should stop thinking in the terms of you know uh

thinking in the terms of you know uh

thinking in the terms of you know uh of uh political military blocks attitude

of uh political military blocks attitude

of uh political military blocks attitude you know

you know

you know uh they should somehow try to see the

uh they should somehow try to see the

uh they should somehow try to see the world differently because would you say

world differently because would you say

world differently because would you say that the one of the goals of NATO is

that the one of the goals of NATO is

that the one of the goals of NATO is like kind of world dominance? Yeah.

like kind of world dominance? Yeah.

like kind of world dominance? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can uh I cannot find any

Yeah. Yeah, I can uh I cannot find any

Yeah. Yeah, I can uh I cannot find any other uh you know reason

other uh you know reason

other uh you know reason for the existence

for the existence

for the existence and then it's if if that's a goal I I

and then it's if if that's a goal I I

and then it's if if that's a goal I I like my brain is like okay well if

like my brain is like okay well if

like my brain is like okay well if that's a goal they need to change their

that's a goal they need to change their

that's a goal they need to change their core like thing you you know you know

core like thing you you know you know

core like thing you you know you know you know within NATO

you know within NATO

you know within NATO certainly I I I I am not going to

certainly I I I I am not going to

certainly I I I I am not going to somehow to to

somehow to to

somehow to to uh to advise

uh to advise

uh to advise any NATO countries on something they

any NATO countries on something they

any NATO countries on something they should do. No, but even uh the United

should do. No, but even uh the United

should do. No, but even uh the United States uh especially the administration

States uh especially the administration

States uh especially the administration of President Trump, they expressed the

of President Trump, they expressed the

of President Trump, they expressed the certain doubts uh about the uh real now

certain doubts uh about the uh real now

certain doubts uh about the uh real now just

just

just whether NATO is uh is relevant

uh and because it's very very expensive

uh and because it's very very expensive

uh and because it's very very expensive Ive and now there is just this demand to

Ive and now there is just this demand to

Ive and now there is just this demand to raise this military expenditure by 3 and

raise this military expenditure by 3 and

raise this military expenditure by 3 and a half% of GDP which is a enormous

a half% of GDP which is a enormous

a half% of GDP which is a enormous burden on the economy of each member

burden on the economy of each member

burden on the economy of each member state.

state.

state. On the other hand, we see that Europeans

On the other hand, we see that Europeans

On the other hand, we see that Europeans and perhaps you know better than me,

and perhaps you know better than me,

and perhaps you know better than me, they are now discussing the uh European

they are now discussing the uh European

they are now discussing the uh European military

military

military uh structures, European military forces.

uh structures, European military forces.

uh structures, European military forces. Yeah. Within the European Union.

Yeah. Within the European Union.

Yeah. Within the European Union. So there are different different

So there are different different

So there are different different processes that are now going on. Mhm. So

processes that are now going on. Mhm. So

processes that are now going on. Mhm. So you think that maybe like uh for example

you think that maybe like uh for example

you think that maybe like uh for example with the United States or maybe some

with the United States or maybe some

with the United States or maybe some other countries um who are in NATO as

other countries um who are in NATO as

other countries um who are in NATO as well uh at a certain point they would

well uh at a certain point they would

well uh at a certain point they would think that okay maybe it's not necessary

think that okay maybe it's not necessary

think that okay maybe it's not necessary to do it this way to change the ways I

to do it this way to change the ways I

to do it this way to change the ways I will not speculate on it you know but uh

will not speculate on it you know but uh

will not speculate on it you know but uh uh I think that uh for the NATO

uh I think that uh for the NATO

uh I think that uh for the NATO certainly you look at uh uh world

certainly you look at uh uh world

certainly you look at uh uh world affairs at the present world is really

affairs at the present world is really

affairs at the present world is really need it, you know.

need it, you know.

need it, you know. Yeah. How does it because NATO obviously

Yeah. How does it because NATO obviously

Yeah. How does it because NATO obviously uh um now we're recording it in NATO top

uh um now we're recording it in NATO top

uh um now we're recording it in NATO top is in less than a week I think. Um so

is in less than a week I think. Um so

is in less than a week I think. Um so when people are viewing this podcast I

when people are viewing this podcast I

when people are viewing this podcast I think it's right in the in the middle of

think it's right in the in the middle of

think it's right in the in the middle of the NATO um uh

the NATO um uh

the NATO um uh uh top now in in the Netherlands

uh top now in in the Netherlands

uh top now in in the Netherlands because Ukraine will be there, right? Or

because Ukraine will be there, right? Or

because Ukraine will be there, right? Or Zalinski will be there. Yes, he will. I

Zalinski will be there. Yes, he will. I

Zalinski will be there. Yes, he will. I think he will be invited to to

think he will be invited to to

think he will be invited to to participate not in the in the

participate not in the in the

participate not in the in the discussions but some kind on some kind

discussions but some kind on some kind

discussions but some kind on some kind of a protocol events

of a protocol events

of a protocol events maybe for dinner or reception or

maybe for dinner or reception or

maybe for dinner or reception or something something. Yeah. Yeah. How

something something. Yeah. Yeah. How

something something. Yeah. Yeah. How does it feel for you and for Russia that

does it feel for you and for Russia that

does it feel for you and for Russia that like Silinski get inv gets invited for

like Silinski get inv gets invited for

like Silinski get inv gets invited for that and u well yeah and Russia not no

that and u well yeah and Russia not no

that and u well yeah and Russia not no we we are not uh interested in being

we we are not uh interested in being

we we are not uh interested in being invited to NATO summits but with the

invited to NATO summits but with the

invited to NATO summits but with the fact that Zalinski is invited it's it's

fact that Zalinski is invited it's it's

fact that Zalinski is invited it's it's once again demonstrates the aggressive

once again demonstrates the aggressive

once again demonstrates the aggressive nature of of NATO towards Russia you

nature of of NATO towards Russia you

nature of of NATO towards Russia you know

know

know Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Does it worry you

Does it worry you

Does it worry you the not not Tilinsky at NATO but like

the not not Tilinsky at NATO but like

the not not Tilinsky at NATO but like the whole situation and and the

the whole situation and and the

the whole situation and and the situation how the world is going at the

situation how the world is going at the

situation how the world is going at the moment like all that conflict and

moment like all that conflict and

moment like all that conflict and because Russia and Ukraine is one

because Russia and Ukraine is one

because Russia and Ukraine is one conflict but you have like uh in the

conflict but you have like uh in the

conflict but you have like uh in the Middle East you have like another big

Middle East you have like another big

Middle East you have like another big conflict as well. Yes. Yes. The

conflict as well. Yes. Yes. The

conflict as well. Yes. Yes. The situation now is uh very I would say

situation now is uh very I would say

situation now is uh very I would say complicated and it uh gives uh a lot of

complicated and it uh gives uh a lot of

complicated and it uh gives uh a lot of a lot of reasons of uh great concern.

a lot of reasons of uh great concern.

a lot of reasons of uh great concern. For instance, yes, the latest

For instance, yes, the latest

For instance, yes, the latest developments in the Middle East, the

developments in the Middle East, the

developments in the Middle East, the strikes of Israel

strikes of Israel

strikes of Israel against Iran that we uh condemned, we

against Iran that we uh condemned, we

against Iran that we uh condemned, we condemned it categorically because we

condemned it categorically because we

condemned it categorically because we don't think it's appropriate

don't think it's appropriate

don't think it's appropriate to uh attack peaceful

to uh attack peaceful

to uh attack peaceful nuclear installation of a sovereign

nuclear installation of a sovereign

nuclear installation of a sovereign state under the pretext of the they were

state under the pretext of the they were

state under the pretext of the they were They were just planning to create

They were just planning to create

They were just planning to create nuclear weapons. But no one no one ever

nuclear weapons. But no one no one ever

nuclear weapons. But no one no one ever proved it, you know. And uh there is

proved it, you know. And uh there is

proved it, you know. And uh there is there is a process, a political process

there is a process, a political process

there is a process, a political process that was going on to

that was going on to

that was going on to somehow to to to control uh this uh uh

somehow to to to control uh this uh uh

somehow to to to control uh this uh uh Iranian nuclear program. Now with this

Iranian nuclear program. Now with this

Iranian nuclear program. Now with this uh strikes I believe this process is is

uh strikes I believe this process is is

uh strikes I believe this process is is is over is over because we heard this

is over is over because we heard this

is over is over because we heard this before. Yeah. Like for me I get like

before. Yeah. Like for me I get like

before. Yeah. Like for me I get like flashbacks to several years back when a

flashbacks to several years back when a

flashbacks to several years back when a certain president of the United States

certain president of the United States

certain president of the United States of America Bush was talking about

of America Bush was talking about

of America Bush was talking about weapons of mass destructions uh

weapons of mass destructions uh

weapons of mass destructions uh destruction and and um uh and on that

destruction and and um uh and on that

destruction and and um uh and on that base went into Iraq invaded Iraq. Yes.

base went into Iraq invaded Iraq. Yes.

base went into Iraq invaded Iraq. Yes. They were never found. But Iraq was

They were never found. But Iraq was

They were never found. But Iraq was destroyed, you know, as a as a as a

destroyed, you know, as a as a as a

destroyed, you know, as a as a as a sovereign state. And uh what was Russian

sovereign state. And uh what was Russian

sovereign state. And uh what was Russian Russia's stance on on Iraq back in the

Russia's stance on on Iraq back in the

Russia's stance on on Iraq back in the day? Yes. We we accused we categorically

day? Yes. We we accused we categorically

day? Yes. We we accused we categorically condemned United States. We didn't

condemned United States. We didn't

condemned United States. We didn't support it at all, you know. We didn't

support it at all, you know. We didn't

support it at all, you know. We didn't support it. And now and we do not

support it. And now and we do not

support it. And now and we do not support certainly the attacks of Israel.

support certainly the attacks of Israel.

support certainly the attacks of Israel. uh and but at the same time we we

uh and but at the same time we we

uh and but at the same time we we recognize that the retaliation of uh of

recognize that the retaliation of uh of

recognize that the retaliation of uh of Iran also causes a lot of deaths of

Iran also causes a lot of deaths of

Iran also causes a lot of deaths of civilians.

civilians.

civilians. So we call on both parties to exercise

So we call on both parties to exercise

So we call on both parties to exercise restraint

restraint

restraint and uh to stop to stop uh this exchange

and uh to stop to stop uh this exchange

and uh to stop to stop uh this exchange of strikes and to to to try to find

of strikes and to to to try to find

of strikes and to to to try to find political solution. And by the way, by

political solution. And by the way, by

political solution. And by the way, by the way, uh our president uh offered

the way, uh our president uh offered

the way, uh our president uh offered uh our uh just uh

uh our uh just uh

uh our uh just uh our assistance as an intermediary

our assistance as an intermediary

our assistance as an intermediary between Iran and Israel since we have

between Iran and Israel since we have

between Iran and Israel since we have good relations certainly with Iran, but

good relations certainly with Iran, but

good relations certainly with Iran, but we have good relations with Israel

we have good relations with Israel

we have good relations with Israel and it's not an alien country to us, I

and it's not an alien country to us, I

and it's not an alien country to us, I would say, because quite a lot of former

would say, because quite a lot of former

would say, because quite a lot of former Russian uh uh citizens are now living in

Russian uh uh citizens are now living in

Russian uh uh citizens are now living in Israel.

Israel.

Israel. So we are also

So we are also

So we are also concerned about their safety.

concerned about their safety.

concerned about their safety. Yeah. So uh and uh Russia is one of the

Yeah. So uh and uh Russia is one of the

Yeah. So uh and uh Russia is one of the few countries that have

few countries that have

few countries that have good relations both with Iran and with

good relations both with Iran and with

good relations both with Iran and with Israel. So if there is there is a a

Israel. So if there is there is a a

Israel. So if there is there is a a willingness of both sides, we can

willingness of both sides, we can

willingness of both sides, we can assist. We can assist. And what's the

assist. We can assist. And what's the

assist. We can assist. And what's the Russian stance actually on because you

Russian stance actually on because you

Russian stance actually on because you say you have also good relations with

say you have also good relations with

say you have also good relations with Israel but the last couple of years what

Israel but the last couple of years what

Israel but the last couple of years what they've done in Palestine for example

they've done in Palestine for example

they've done in Palestine for example like I would say that Russia would uh

like I would say that Russia would uh

like I would say that Russia would uh say something about that as well. Yeah

say something about that as well. Yeah

say something about that as well. Yeah certainly we we we

certainly we we we

certainly we we we also we do not we we accuse we condemn

also we do not we we accuse we condemn

also we do not we we accuse we condemn uh Israel of all the atrocities uh

uh Israel of all the atrocities uh

uh Israel of all the atrocities uh committed in Gaza. Yeah. Yeah, but we

committed in Gaza. Yeah. Yeah, but we

committed in Gaza. Yeah. Yeah, but we also recognize that uh uh there were

also recognize that uh uh there were

also recognize that uh uh there were atrocities committed also by the

atrocities committed also by the

atrocities committed also by the opposite side, you know. So

opposite side, you know. So

opposite side, you know. So the reaction of Israel was uh probably

the reaction of Israel was uh probably

the reaction of Israel was uh probably not proportional.

not proportional.

not proportional. It was excessive.

It was excessive.

It was excessive. And uh but

And uh but

And uh but if we speak about uh

if we speak about uh

if we speak about uh situation in the Middle East in Israel,

situation in the Middle East in Israel,

situation in the Middle East in Israel, relations with uh Israel and Palestine,

relations with uh Israel and Palestine,

relations with uh Israel and Palestine, I think there is there is a solution

I think there is there is a solution

I think there is there is a solution already that was elaborated long ago.

already that was elaborated long ago.

already that was elaborated long ago. Yes. Uh by the security council of the

Yes. Uh by the security council of the

Yes. Uh by the security council of the United Nations. That's the recognition

United Nations. That's the recognition

United Nations. That's the recognition of a Palestine independent Palestine

of a Palestine independent Palestine

of a Palestine independent Palestine state by Israel and the peaceful

state by Israel and the peaceful

state by Israel and the peaceful coexistence of uh these two states.

coexistence of uh these two states.

coexistence of uh these two states. Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah, that's the goes on like this. There's no

that's the goes on like this. There's no

that's the goes on like this. There's no state to talk about anymore,

state to talk about anymore,

state to talk about anymore, right? Palestine Palestine is still is

right? Palestine Palestine is still is

right? Palestine Palestine is still is still there. Palestine is still there.

still there. Palestine is still there.

still there. Palestine is still there. sector uh Gaza is is is is destroyed

sector uh Gaza is is is is destroyed

sector uh Gaza is is is is destroyed probably. Yeah. But state of Palestine

probably. Yeah. But state of Palestine

probably. Yeah. But state of Palestine is uh well is is quite quite uh

is uh well is is quite quite uh

is uh well is is quite quite uh uh respectful member of the world

uh respectful member of the world

uh respectful member of the world community. Mhm. And we we we we have

community. Mhm. And we we we we have

community. Mhm. And we we we we have excellent relations with the state of

excellent relations with the state of

excellent relations with the state of Palestine. We always support their

Palestine. We always support their

Palestine. We always support their cause.

cause.

cause. Uh so what do you or what does Russia

Uh so what do you or what does Russia

Uh so what do you or what does Russia believe that is happening like the past

believe that is happening like the past

believe that is happening like the past couple of years in in the Middle East

couple of years in in the Middle East

couple of years in in the Middle East like like for example with Iraq uh and

like like for example with Iraq uh and

like like for example with Iraq uh and now with Iran as well um like do they is

now with Iran as well um like do they is

now with Iran as well um like do they is there something that combines those

there something that combines those

there something that combines those situations?

situations?

situations? Well,

Well,

Well, I don't think that uh uh you know

I don't think that uh uh you know

I don't think that uh uh you know there is any any link between uh now the

there is any any link between uh now the

there is any any link between uh now the situation in Iraq and Iran. Iran is a

situation in Iraq and Iran. Iran is a

situation in Iraq and Iran. Iran is a different story. Yeah. The attacks of

different story. Yeah. The attacks of

different story. Yeah. The attacks of Israel against uh uh Iran is absolutely

Israel against uh uh Iran is absolutely

Israel against uh uh Iran is absolutely unacceptable.

unacceptable.

unacceptable. Yeah. And we saw also this the

Yeah. And we saw also this the

Yeah. And we saw also this the developments in Syria when the new new

developments in Syria when the new new

developments in Syria when the new new government came to power. And uh we

government came to power. And uh we

government came to power. And uh we certainly we recognize this and we are

certainly we recognize this and we are

certainly we recognize this and we are ready to have a dialogue with the new

ready to have a dialogue with the new

ready to have a dialogue with the new authorities of Syria.

authorities of Syria.

authorities of Syria. Yeah. But in in the long run what the

Yeah. But in in the long run what the

Yeah. But in in the long run what the situation in the Middle East? Yes. It's

situation in the Middle East? Yes. It's

situation in the Middle East? Yes. It's very very dangerous. It uh brings a lot

very very dangerous. It uh brings a lot

very very dangerous. It uh brings a lot of potential

of potential

of potential potential sources, you know, of

potential sources, you know, of

potential sources, you know, of confrontation and there should be a

confrontation and there should be a

confrontation and there should be a overwhelming solution. But uh the

overwhelming solution. But uh the

overwhelming solution. But uh the primary the primary solution the the

primary the primary solution the the

primary the primary solution the the core solution I would say to the Middle

core solution I would say to the Middle

core solution I would say to the Middle East problem is the peace between

East problem is the peace between

East problem is the peace between uh Israel and Palestine.

uh Israel and Palestine.

uh Israel and Palestine. You think if that's if that solution is

You think if that's if that solution is

You think if that's if that solution is peaceful, if there's peace, then there

peaceful, if there's peace, then there

peaceful, if there's peace, then there would be potentially peace restored in

would be potentially peace restored in

would be potentially peace restored in the whole like middle. Yes. Yes, it

the whole like middle. Yes. Yes, it

the whole like middle. Yes. Yes, it will. It will it will certainly it will

will. It will it will certainly it will

will. It will it will certainly it will help a lot. Do you think we will see

help a lot. Do you think we will see

help a lot. Do you think we will see that anytime soon?

that anytime soon?

that anytime soon? Let's be optimistic.

Let's be optimistic.

Let's be optimistic. I think it's always good to be

I think it's always good to be

I think it's always good to be optimistic. Yeah. Yeah. Certainly. these

optimistic. Yeah. Yeah. Certainly. these

optimistic. Yeah. Yeah. Certainly. these these uh the differences are are are

these uh the differences are are are

these uh the differences are are are great but uh well there should there

great but uh well there should there

great but uh well there should there should be efforts there must be efforts

should be efforts there must be efforts

should be efforts there must be efforts to bring these two

to bring these two

to bring these two parties to a kind of a common solution.

parties to a kind of a common solution.

parties to a kind of a common solution. So um different subject but what I

So um different subject but what I

So um different subject but what I really was curious about is like at this

really was curious about is like at this

really was curious about is like at this situation at this time how do the

situation at this time how do the

situation at this time how do the Russians view the Europeans and for

Russians view the Europeans and for

Russians view the Europeans and for example the Dutch or like like other

example the Dutch or like like other

example the Dutch or like like other countries as well like after all this is

countries as well like after all this is

countries as well like after all this is happening I can imagine that they that

happening I can imagine that they that

happening I can imagine that they that their point of view may be also changed.

their point of view may be also changed.

their point of view may be also changed. Yes. You know, historically,

Yes. You know, historically,

Yes. You know, historically, historically, Russians were very

historically, Russians were very

historically, Russians were very friendly to Europeans, to

friendly to Europeans, to

friendly to Europeans, to uh

uh

uh including

including

including Dutch people. Yes. You know, we uh for

Dutch people. Yes. You know, we uh for

Dutch people. Yes. You know, we uh for instance, for instance, uh uh European

instance, for instance, uh uh European

instance, for instance, uh uh European literature is very popular has always

literature is very popular has always

literature is very popular has always been very popular in Russia.

been very popular in Russia.

been very popular in Russia. All the

All the

All the books, novels even that are now new

books, novels even that are now new

books, novels even that are now new ones, they are immediately translated

ones, they are immediately translated

ones, they are immediately translated into Russian. They are read

into Russian. They are read

into Russian. They are read and there is an interest in the society.

and there is an interest in the society.

and there is an interest in the society. Yeah. Certainly. And uh uh

Yeah. Certainly. And uh uh

Yeah. Certainly. And uh uh European cinema is also

European cinema is also

European cinema is also popular. So there is absolutely there

popular. So there is absolutely there

popular. So there is absolutely there has never never been any any hostility

has never never been any any hostility

has never never been any any hostility within the Russian society towards the

within the Russian society towards the

within the Russian society towards the west. But now I would say with the

west. But now I would say with the

west. But now I would say with the recent developments yes the situation is

recent developments yes the situation is

recent developments yes the situation is a bit more different you know uh there

a bit more different you know uh there

a bit more different you know uh there is no hostility. No no but there is

is no hostility. No no but there is

is no hostility. No no but there is mistrust I would say. Yeah.

mistrust I would say. Yeah.

mistrust I would say. Yeah. So

uh people people uh believe that uh if

uh people people uh believe that uh if

uh people people uh believe that uh if we restore our our

we restore our our

we restore our our uh relations with the west we must be

uh relations with the west we must be

uh relations with the west we must be cautious.

cautious.

cautious. We must not allow

We must not allow

We must not allow to be deceived once again,

to be deceived once again,

to be deceived once again, you know, and certainly

you know, and certainly

you know, and certainly uh we should uh calculate very carefully

uh we should uh calculate very carefully

uh we should uh calculate very carefully our interest

our interest

our interest because uh there were a couple of times

because uh there were a couple of times

because uh there were a couple of times when uh we uh just

when uh we uh just

when uh we uh just helped the west in the solution of uh

helped the west in the solution of uh

helped the west in the solution of uh their

their

their problems without getting anything from

problems without getting anything from

problems without getting anything from from them, you know,

from them, you know,

from them, you know, without taking into account our

without taking into account our

without taking into account our interests.

interests.

interests. What would what would like how would the

What would what would like how would the

What would what would like how would the ideal world look for the Russians at

ideal world look for the Russians at

ideal world look for the Russians at this moment? Like what would be like the

this moment? Like what would be like the

this moment? Like what would be like the ideal situation?

ideal situation I will be a peaceful

ideal situation I will be a peaceful

ideal situation I will be a peaceful secure

secure

secure European continent

European continent

European continent where uh countries countries exist

where uh countries countries exist

where uh countries countries exist you know

you know

you know taking into consideration the uh the

taking into consideration the uh the

taking into consideration the uh the needs of security of each other there

needs of security of each other there

needs of security of each other there security is undevisable I would say you

security is undevisable I would say you

security is undevisable I would say you know you cannot uh you cannot build your

know you cannot uh you cannot build your

know you cannot uh you cannot build your own security at the expense of security

own security at the expense of security

own security at the expense of security of others

otherwise it will not be solid. It will

otherwise it will not be solid. It will

otherwise it will not be solid. It will not be it will not last long you know

not be it will not last long you know

not be it will not last long you know because those who believe themselves as

because those who believe themselves as

because those who believe themselves as being you know just uh

being you know just uh

being you know just uh undermined or

undermined or

undermined or whose interests are are undermined. They

whose interests are are undermined. They

whose interests are are undermined. They they feel that they should uh

they feel that they should uh

they feel that they should uh take revenge now just restore their

take revenge now just restore their

take revenge now just restore their security. So

security. So

security. So if uh this

if uh this

if uh this uh situation takes into account the

uh situation takes into account the

uh situation takes into account the interests of anyone that will be a solid

interests of anyone that will be a solid

interests of anyone that will be a solid solid piece uh perhaps I I am now sound

solid piece uh perhaps I I am now sound

solid piece uh perhaps I I am now sound idealistic

idealistic

idealistic but in the long run that's the the only

but in the long run that's the the only

but in the long run that's the the only way the only way but it's good to be

way the only way but it's good to be

way the only way but it's good to be idealistic. Yeah, we should be because

idealistic. Yeah, we should be because

idealistic. Yeah, we should be because otherwise Yeah, I really like for me

otherwise Yeah, I really like for me

otherwise Yeah, I really like for me that's always what I think like when I

that's always what I think like when I

that's always what I think like when I look at all those conflicts and stuff

look at all those conflicts and stuff

look at all those conflicts and stuff like it's always

like it's always

like it's always those those people with interests who

those those people with interests who

those those people with interests who are creating it and and who are

are creating it and and who are

are creating it and and who are benefiting of it as well. And I think if

benefiting of it as well. And I think if

benefiting of it as well. And I think if just the people would like just look

just the people would like just look

just the people would like just look into each other's eyes and just have

into each other's eyes and just have

into each other's eyes and just have like a normal conversation about it,

like a normal conversation about it,

like a normal conversation about it, Russians, Dutch, whatever, like everyone

Russians, Dutch, whatever, like everyone

Russians, Dutch, whatever, like everyone like it's not the people, right? I think

like it's not the people, right? I think

like it's not the people, right? I think if we would all like realize that it's

if we would all like realize that it's

if we would all like realize that it's not the people, the people just want

not the people, the people just want

not the people, the people just want peace and that's what we should strive

peace and that's what we should strive

peace and that's what we should strive for, then hopefully stuff can change.

for, then hopefully stuff can change.

for, then hopefully stuff can change. Yeah, people. Yes. If people if people

Yeah, people. Yes. If people if people

Yeah, people. Yes. If people if people speak to each other, maybe they will

speak to each other, maybe they will

speak to each other, maybe they will find the solution. But regrettably

find the solution. But regrettably

find the solution. But regrettably that's not uh that's not possible taking

that's not uh that's not possible taking

that's not uh that's not possible taking into account the existing realities. and

into account the existing realities. and

into account the existing realities. and with the with the Europeans. Yes. Uh I

with the with the Europeans. Yes. Uh I

with the with the Europeans. Yes. Uh I would say that

would say that

would say that uh regrettably uh we don't have any

uh regrettably uh we don't have any

uh regrettably uh we don't have any dialogue, you know. That's it. Yeah. and

dialogue, you know. That's it. Yeah. and

dialogue, you know. That's it. Yeah. and in

in

in and that's the situation perhaps is even

and that's the situation perhaps is even

and that's the situation perhaps is even more dangerous now than it used to be in

more dangerous now than it used to be in

more dangerous now than it used to be in the uh period of the cold war because at

the uh period of the cold war because at

the uh period of the cold war because at that time there were some rules of

that time there were some rules of

that time there were some rules of behavior, rules of the game and there

behavior, rules of the game and there

behavior, rules of the game and there were red lines that were never crossed

were red lines that were never crossed

were red lines that were never crossed and uh there was a dialogue you know

and uh there was a dialogue you know

and uh there was a dialogue you know even even in some most I would say most

even even in some most I would say most

even even in some most I would say most dangerous periods. Uh now

dangerous periods. Uh now

dangerous periods. Uh now uh happily with the United States, we

uh happily with the United States, we

uh happily with the United States, we started to have a dialogue with a new

started to have a dialogue with a new

started to have a dialogue with a new administration

administration

administration with uh with uh there were

with uh with uh there were

with uh with uh there were several conversations of our two

several conversations of our two

several conversations of our two presidents, President Putin and

presidents, President Putin and

presidents, President Putin and President Trump and we have uh exchange

President Trump and we have uh exchange

President Trump and we have uh exchange of dialogue on the level of foreign

of dialogue on the level of foreign

of dialogue on the level of foreign ministries but with the Europeans that

ministries but with the Europeans that

ministries but with the Europeans that is not the case. That is not the case.

is not the case. That is not the case.

is not the case. That is not the case. We do not speak. We do not hear each

We do not speak. We do not hear each

We do not speak. We do not hear each other. The practice of dialogue is

other. The practice of dialogue is

other. The practice of dialogue is absolutely lost. And without it, I

absolutely lost. And without it, I

absolutely lost. And without it, I believe uh it's very difficult to find

believe uh it's very difficult to find

believe uh it's very difficult to find kind any solution when you don't speak

kind any solution when you don't speak

kind any solution when you don't speak to each other. So let's hope for more

to each other. So let's hope for more

to each other. So let's hope for more dialogue. Yeah. Yeah. We are ready.

dialogue. Yeah. Yeah. We are ready.

dialogue. Yeah. Yeah. We are ready. Vladimir, thank you so much. Thank you.

Vladimir, thank you so much. Thank you.

Vladimir, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Dear friends, thank you also

Thank you. Dear friends, thank you also

Thank you. Dear friends, thank you also for watching and for listening. We will

for watching and for listening. We will

for watching and for listening. We will start recording uncensored now. So we

start recording uncensored now. So we

start recording uncensored now. So we will get one topic and uh get to discuss

will get one topic and uh get to discuss

will get one topic and uh get to discuss a little bit more about that one topic.

a little bit more about that one topic.

a little bit more about that one topic. You can check that one on the streaming

You can check that one on the streaming

You can check that one on the streaming platform of that's the spirit. So if

platform of that's the spirit. So if

platform of that's the spirit. So if you're watching there, super nice. Just

you're watching there, super nice. Just

you're watching there, super nice. Just click this one and uh you can enjoy a

click this one and uh you can enjoy a

click this one and uh you can enjoy a little bit more of our conversation. And

little bit more of our conversation. And

little bit more of our conversation. And if not, go to thatspirit.nu

if not, go to thatspirit.nu

if not, go to thatspirit.nu and you will see this uncensored a lot

and you will see this uncensored a lot

and you will see this uncensored a lot of other uncensored and content and

of other uncensored and content and

of other uncensored and content and documentaries and movies and a lot of

documentaries and movies and a lot of

documentaries and movies and a lot of good stuff. you will definitely like.

good stuff. you will definitely like.

good stuff. you will definitely like. Um, thank you so much for listening. See

Um, thank you so much for listening. See

Um, thank you so much for listening. See you hopefully at Uncensored and

you hopefully at Uncensored and

you hopefully at Uncensored and otherwise till the next time. Ciao.

Our media is much more objective when

Our media is much more objective when

Our media is much more objective when they cover the Western situation, the

they cover the Western situation, the

they cover the Western situation, the situation in the West. That's what every

situation in the West. That's what every

situation in the West. That's what every country says. Yeah.

country says. Yeah.

country says. Yeah. um the Nordstream because it's been big

um the Nordstream because it's been big

um the Nordstream because it's been big in the news as well a couple of times

in the news as well a couple of times

in the news as well a couple of times here here in the Netherlands and I think

here here in the Netherlands and I think

here here in the Netherlands and I think in the whole of Europe sometimes

in the whole of Europe sometimes

in the whole of Europe sometimes certainly I am very very much upset to

certainly I am very very much upset to

certainly I am very very much upset to read in the local media what they write

read in the local media what they write

read in the local media what they write about Russia about our foreign policy

about Russia about our foreign policy

about Russia about our foreign policy about our domestic situation because you

about our domestic situation because you

about our domestic situation because you know it's it's it's Not correct to put

know it's it's it's Not correct to put

know it's it's it's Not correct to put it mildly.

it mildly.

it mildly. When there are some positive facts, they

When there are some positive facts, they

When there are some positive facts, they are just

are just

are just either they are silenced

either they are silenced

either they are silenced or they are

or they are

or they are presented in a distorted way.