All language subtitles for Tish.2023.1080p.BluRay.x264.AAC5.1-[YTS.MX]

af Afrikaans
ak Akan
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic Download
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bem Bemba
bn Bengali
bh Bihari
bs Bosnian
br Breton
bg Bulgarian
km Cambodian
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
chr Cherokee
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional)
co Corsican
hr Croatian
cs Czech
da Danish
en English
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
ee Ewe
fo Faroese
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French Download
fy Frisian
gaa Ga
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German
el Greek
gn Guarani
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ia Interlingua
ga Irish
it Italian
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
rw Kinyarwanda
rn Kirundi
kg Kongo
ko Korean Download
kri Krio (Sierra Leone)
ku Kurdish
ckb Kurdish (Soranî)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Laothian
la Latin
lv Latvian
ln Lingala
lt Lithuanian
loz Lozi
lg Luganda
ach Luo
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mfe Mauritian Creole
mo Moldavian
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
sr-ME Montenegrin
ne Nepali
pcm Nigerian Pidgin
nso Northern Sotho
no Norwegian
nn Norwegian (Nynorsk)
oc Occitan
or Oriya
om Oromo
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt-BR Portuguese (Brazil) Download
pt Portuguese (Portugal)
pa Punjabi
qu Quechua
ro Romanian
rm Romansh
nyn Runyakitara
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
sh Serbo-Croatian
st Sesotho
tn Setswana
crs Seychellois Creole
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhalese
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish
es-419 Spanish (Latin American) Download
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
tt Tatar
te Telugu
th Thai
ti Tigrinya
to Tonga
lua Tshiluba
tum Tumbuka
tr Turkish
tk Turkmen
tw Twi
ug Uighur
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
wo Wolof
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:51,241 --> 00:00:52,881 "High levels of unemployment" 4 00:00:53,001 --> 00:00:55,001 "have always been a hard and constant feature" 5 00:00:55,121 --> 00:00:56,681 "of life in the west end of Newcastle" 6 00:00:56,801 --> 00:00:59,161 " our society has no solutions". 7 00:00:59,201 --> 00:01:02,201 "My work depends on an investment of time" 8 00:01:02,361 --> 00:01:03,681 "intensified as it is" 9 00:01:03,841 --> 00:01:06,721 "by the government's extreme free market philosophy" 10 00:01:06,841 --> 00:01:09,881 - " the Demon Snapper" - " events and experience 11 00:01:10,001 --> 00:01:12,681 "that shape our lives" 12 00:01:12,801 --> 00:01:15,761 - " the confused fantasies" - " diverse community 13 00:01:15,921 --> 00:01:18,202 "I've been documenting the human effects of unemployment" 14 00:01:18,241 --> 00:01:21,121 "the consequences of which will be enormous." 15 00:01:21,321 --> 00:01:24,121 "Young people, already experiencing the problems of adolescence." 16 00:01:24,241 --> 00:01:27,721 "The future is nevertheless clearly discernible." 17 00:01:27,841 --> 00:01:30,801 "Dear Ella, I give you my heart" 18 00:01:33,081 --> 00:01:35,521 The joy in her photographs is incredible. 19 00:01:35,641 --> 00:01:38,721 The history of working-class people. 20 00:01:38,841 --> 00:01:44,681 She recognised, you know, beauty, but it was usually as a means to an end. 21 00:01:44,881 --> 00:01:46,721 She was a fighter. 22 00:01:46,801 --> 00:01:48,801 She wasn't going to sit still. 23 00:01:48,921 --> 00:01:51,321 She fought the good fight. 24 00:01:52,761 --> 00:01:56,361 If you want to photograph the tribe, you've got to be part of the tribe. 25 00:01:56,481 --> 00:01:58,801 You've got to dance the same dance. 26 00:02:21,601 --> 00:02:23,521 When I think of my mam, 27 00:02:23,641 --> 00:02:25,961 it's always people. 28 00:02:29,201 --> 00:02:32,121 She just took pictures of what was in front of her 29 00:02:32,241 --> 00:02:34,321 because she saw 30 00:02:34,441 --> 00:02:37,761 that what was in front of her, her world and the people in it, 31 00:02:37,961 --> 00:02:40,161 they needed to be seen, do you know? 32 00:02:40,281 --> 00:02:42,321 And she knew that 33 00:02:42,441 --> 00:02:44,441 with this camera 34 00:02:44,561 --> 00:02:48,281 she could capture it, show people, and 35 00:02:48,481 --> 00:02:51,521 give people a value. 36 00:02:51,641 --> 00:02:54,161 Do you know, these people existed. 37 00:02:54,281 --> 00:02:56,241 They mattered They lived They were there. 38 00:02:56,361 --> 00:02:59,201 And my mam was going to make sure that they were seen. 39 00:03:06,521 --> 00:03:09,561 I'd seen her work in a show in Aberystwyth, 40 00:03:09,761 --> 00:03:14,521 and I walked around that show and saw lots of work that I'd seen before. 41 00:03:14,641 --> 00:03:17,401 And then I saw some that I hadn't. 42 00:03:17,521 --> 00:03:20,241 and that I was really captivated by, and 43 00:03:20,361 --> 00:03:22,441 and I just thought that, "This is different" 44 00:03:22,561 --> 00:03:26,201 "I need to meet this person and find out why." 45 00:03:26,401 --> 00:03:28,681 My mam had died and I was clearing out her stuff, 46 00:03:28,801 --> 00:03:30,201 and I found this letter 47 00:03:30,321 --> 00:03:31,961 and it was from you - Yeah. 48 00:03:32,081 --> 00:03:34,761 And you had been to meet my mam at Side, 49 00:03:34,961 --> 00:03:38,681 but it was just saying how much you'd enjoyed meeting her 50 00:03:38,881 --> 00:03:41,521 and you found her honesty, like, so refreshing 51 00:03:41,721 --> 00:03:43,361 I mean, you don't 52 00:03:43,481 --> 00:03:45,881 you don't meet many people like Tish 53 00:03:47,321 --> 00:03:50,721 I've always sort of thought 54 00:03:50,921 --> 00:03:53,081 that history is so posh. 55 00:03:53,201 --> 00:03:56,041 You know, it's so much about rich wealth. 56 00:03:57,441 --> 00:04:01,721 Someone from that place, genuinely recording 57 00:04:01,841 --> 00:04:05,241 and making part of history, the lives of people, 58 00:04:05,361 --> 00:04:07,441 was really important. 59 00:04:07,561 --> 00:04:10,161 And there she was, doing it. 60 00:04:10,361 --> 00:04:13,481 So, all of that made it feel more imperative that her work 61 00:04:13,601 --> 00:04:15,481 was actually embedded as part of a 62 00:04:15,681 --> 00:04:17,401 a history of Britain - Yeah. 63 00:04:17,521 --> 00:04:19,721 A history of working-class people. 64 00:04:20,921 --> 00:04:24,281 I have no idea why Tish's work wasn't better known. 65 00:04:24,481 --> 00:04:27,441 Those photographs just felt really honest, 66 00:04:27,561 --> 00:04:30,041 and I just couldn't work out how someone had managed it. 67 00:04:30,241 --> 00:04:31,641 Yeah - Do you know what I mean? 68 00:04:31,761 --> 00:04:33,841 Yeah, you just needed to know who and why. 69 00:04:33,961 --> 00:04:37,121 Yeah, how's this person where've they come from to do this? 70 00:04:37,241 --> 00:04:40,001 How have they got the insight to be able to do this? 71 00:04:40,201 --> 00:04:42,281 You know, grief's a horrible thing. 72 00:04:42,401 --> 00:04:44,297 And at that point, when you got in touch with me, 73 00:04:44,321 --> 00:04:45,721 you were obviously, like. 74 00:04:45,841 --> 00:04:47,921 It was so raw, yeah - Very raw 75 00:04:48,041 --> 00:04:50,041 I have to say, I've never seen a reaction like this 76 00:04:50,161 --> 00:04:51,881 I've never seen somebody - Really? 77 00:04:52,001 --> 00:04:54,121 No, it's so driven, Ella 78 00:04:54,241 --> 00:04:57,961 It's so driven, and, you know, so, like, uh. 79 00:04:58,081 --> 00:05:00,641 "Let's get this done Let's make this right" 80 00:05:09,161 --> 00:05:16,761 ? Vissi d'arte 81 00:05:16,881 --> 00:05:24,321 ? Vissi d'amore 82 00:05:24,441 --> 00:05:30,161 ? Non feci mai male 83 00:05:30,281 --> 00:05:35,161 ? Ad anima viva 84 00:05:37,481 --> 00:05:45,081 ? Con man furtiva 85 00:05:45,281 --> 00:05:50,121 ? Quante miserie 86 00:06:02,801 --> 00:06:06,081 What was it like being Tish Murtha's little sister? 87 00:06:07,641 --> 00:06:10,441 Well, for a start, she demanded that, 88 00:06:10,561 --> 00:06:13,041 when the new baby came along, it was going to be called Eileen. 89 00:06:13,081 --> 00:06:14,521 No-one had any say at all? 90 00:06:14,641 --> 00:06:16,841 Nobody had any say That was what was happening. 91 00:06:17,041 --> 00:06:19,321 So, she would have been two and a half? Three? 92 00:06:19,441 --> 00:06:21,681 Two and a half, and she was already so determined. 93 00:06:21,761 --> 00:06:23,721 Yeah Yeah, she was 94 00:06:23,841 --> 00:06:24,921 Yeah. 95 00:06:25,041 --> 00:06:26,841 Yeah, very, very determined. 96 00:06:28,961 --> 00:06:30,161 So, this is. 97 00:06:30,281 --> 00:06:31,521 Tish - Tish. 98 00:06:31,641 --> 00:06:34,761 me and Mark My brother Mark, yeah. 99 00:06:34,961 --> 00:06:37,281 I love it - School photo! 100 00:06:37,401 --> 00:06:40,601 She was the third oldest, wasn't she? Was she quite protective? 101 00:06:40,801 --> 00:06:42,577 - Of the younger ones? - Yeah. 102 00:06:42,601 --> 00:06:45,281 Yeah, I mean, that was her role That was her job, really 103 00:06:45,401 --> 00:06:47,521 I mean, there's nine months between some of us. 104 00:06:47,641 --> 00:06:48,721 Yeah. 105 00:06:48,921 --> 00:06:51,001 And my mother was sort of very gentle. 106 00:06:51,121 --> 00:06:52,721 Yeah - She was a great, 107 00:06:52,801 --> 00:06:54,361 wonderful mother. 108 00:06:54,481 --> 00:06:58,041 Encouraged us to be interested in all sorts of things. 109 00:06:58,241 --> 00:07:01,121 You know, interested to cultivate 110 00:07:02,561 --> 00:07:06,161 creative and artistic things that she'd seen in all of us, 111 00:07:06,281 --> 00:07:08,881 in all of her ten her brood. 112 00:07:09,081 --> 00:07:13,721 And I can remember her buying us things like crayons and pencils and paper, 113 00:07:13,841 --> 00:07:15,961 even when she couldn't afford it. 114 00:07:17,481 --> 00:07:21,401 I'd been quite close to Tish, because we used to go on our travels. 115 00:07:21,521 --> 00:07:23,361 She used to take me around with her, 116 00:07:23,561 --> 00:07:26,121 and I was probably a pain in the back-side to her, 117 00:07:26,241 --> 00:07:31,281 but, when we moved to Elswick, it was a very different. 118 00:07:31,401 --> 00:07:33,241 Completely different to South Shields. 119 00:07:35,041 --> 00:07:37,121 I call it "the darkness on the edge of town" 120 00:07:37,241 --> 00:07:38,921 because it was. 121 00:07:39,121 --> 00:07:41,601 It was a It was a strange world. 122 00:07:41,721 --> 00:07:44,441 It had a floating population of people. 123 00:07:44,561 --> 00:07:48,201 There was always arterial blood spilled along Elswick Road, 124 00:07:48,321 --> 00:07:50,441 and, you know, sometimes it's funny, isn't it? 125 00:07:50,561 --> 00:07:53,681 Your memories are black and white, but the blood's always red. 126 00:07:54,761 --> 00:07:58,161 All around us was these derelict houses. 127 00:07:58,281 --> 00:08:00,521 Some of them got knocked down and levelled, 128 00:08:00,641 --> 00:08:04,481 so, there was always a wasteland where the kids could have fires. 129 00:08:04,681 --> 00:08:06,961 But it was it was things like this 130 00:08:07,081 --> 00:08:09,161 and the name of the street there, 131 00:08:09,281 --> 00:08:11,441 in all its finery 132 00:08:30,521 --> 00:08:34,161 So, do you know the picture of you where you're with three of the boys 133 00:08:34,281 --> 00:08:36,441 and you're on the pillars of the old church 134 00:08:36,641 --> 00:08:38,201 and you look like statues? 135 00:08:39,361 --> 00:08:43,081 You just look like like you just own the place. 136 00:09:04,041 --> 00:09:05,481 What did he make you do? 137 00:09:10,121 --> 00:09:12,001 What, even as kids? 138 00:09:33,161 --> 00:09:34,561 Yeah. 139 00:10:06,001 --> 00:10:08,001 We used to look in the bins. 140 00:10:08,201 --> 00:10:09,881 Have a scavenge, look for treasure. 141 00:10:10,001 --> 00:10:13,361 - Yeah, we were proper skip-rats. - So, she found a camera? 142 00:10:13,481 --> 00:10:15,841 Yeah, yeah We used to go in the old houses, 143 00:10:15,961 --> 00:10:19,201 and people had just left and there was always stuff in them. 144 00:10:19,321 --> 00:10:21,681 There was encyclopedias, 145 00:10:21,801 --> 00:10:24,841 some of the most amazing books and encyclopedias. 146 00:10:24,961 --> 00:10:28,721 And I think she probably got it in one of those houses. 147 00:10:30,361 --> 00:10:33,481 It was considered to be the worst square-mile in England. 148 00:10:33,601 --> 00:10:34,961 Bloody hell - at that time. 149 00:10:35,081 --> 00:10:38,041 Often, you'd get cars driving up 150 00:10:38,161 --> 00:10:42,561 and driving along beside you and asking you, you know, to get in. 151 00:10:42,761 --> 00:10:46,121 And there was lots of curious people 152 00:10:46,241 --> 00:10:48,921 who were probably fine, but you just didn't know. 153 00:10:49,121 --> 00:10:52,601 And you had to learn quite quickly and be streetwise. 154 00:10:52,721 --> 00:10:55,841 So, I think she took to carrying that camera 155 00:10:56,041 --> 00:10:59,241 because you had to keep yourself safe. 156 00:10:59,361 --> 00:11:01,801 You had to keep your brothers and sisters safe. 157 00:11:01,921 --> 00:11:05,001 She always felt safer when she had it Even though it had no film in it. 158 00:11:05,121 --> 00:11:08,281 - Yeah, that's right. - So, when do you, like. 159 00:11:08,401 --> 00:11:11,721 When do you remember her first starting to be interested in photography 160 00:11:11,841 --> 00:11:14,601 and actually having some film in a camera 161 00:11:14,721 --> 00:11:16,881 and taking photographs? 162 00:11:17,081 --> 00:11:19,761 Probably about when she was about 163 00:11:19,881 --> 00:11:21,481 15, 16 164 00:11:23,441 --> 00:11:25,761 I remember me and her 165 00:11:25,881 --> 00:11:28,081 taking photographs one weekend of each other 166 00:11:28,201 --> 00:11:31,201 I mean, I didn't know how it worked, particularly, 167 00:11:31,321 --> 00:11:33,721 and I think Tish was just learning, anyway, 168 00:11:33,841 --> 00:11:36,001 so, we took these photographs of each other. 169 00:11:36,201 --> 00:11:38,961 That was one of the very first I mean, it's so damaged, but. 170 00:11:39,161 --> 00:11:41,641 It's beautiful, though. 171 00:11:41,761 --> 00:11:45,041 And she must have had access to a darkroom, 172 00:11:45,161 --> 00:11:49,961 and I think Jos and Bob had set one up in their house. 173 00:11:50,081 --> 00:11:52,961 I met Eileen first at a kind of youth club. 174 00:11:53,081 --> 00:11:55,201 She must have taken me back for a cup of tea 175 00:11:55,401 --> 00:11:57,121 Tish must have been there. 176 00:11:57,241 --> 00:12:00,401 And then they started coming up to my house where I was a student 177 00:12:00,521 --> 00:12:01,921 at Ravensworth 178 00:12:02,121 --> 00:12:04,841 I introduced her to the darkroom, and she was raved over it. 179 00:12:04,961 --> 00:12:07,681 You know, going into a darkroom and seeing actual photographs 180 00:12:07,721 --> 00:12:09,561 appear in front of your eyes in the dark. 181 00:12:09,761 --> 00:12:11,601 Well, she 182 00:12:11,721 --> 00:12:15,401 I have this, and it says in the front of it, 183 00:12:15,521 --> 00:12:16,841 "To Jos and Bob." 184 00:12:17,041 --> 00:12:19,601 "Do you see what you two started when you gave me" 185 00:12:19,721 --> 00:12:23,001 "the use of a camera and darkroom and made me go to college?" 186 00:12:23,201 --> 00:12:27,401 I thought it'd be a good idea for Tish to get formal instruction, 187 00:12:27,521 --> 00:12:29,481 but she was petrified. 188 00:12:29,601 --> 00:12:31,921 She was convinced that they wouldn't take her. 189 00:12:32,121 --> 00:12:35,081 - She didn't have confidence in herself. - No confidence, yeah 190 00:12:35,281 --> 00:12:36,817 I think we literally turned up at the front door 191 00:12:36,841 --> 00:12:38,801 and I walked in and I said, "You're going in". 192 00:12:39,001 --> 00:12:40,881 Then I left her to it. 193 00:12:42,041 --> 00:12:45,961 Well, I'm teaching on a course in Newcastle, at Bath Lane. 194 00:12:46,161 --> 00:12:49,561 - So, what was she like? - She was tough. 195 00:12:49,681 --> 00:12:52,721 And she wasn't going to take anything lying down. 196 00:12:52,841 --> 00:12:55,121 She was tough, she was strong - Yeah. 197 00:12:55,241 --> 00:12:58,201 Fortunately, we had cameras that we could lend students. 198 00:12:58,401 --> 00:13:01,921 She brought some stuff to me "That's my mam, that's my nan. 199 00:13:02,041 --> 00:13:05,361 - "That's my uncle, that's my" - Yeah. 200 00:13:05,481 --> 00:13:07,921 I said, "These are fantastic, Tish Go do some more" 201 00:13:32,721 --> 00:13:35,281 Yeah, you know, she recognised beauty. 202 00:13:35,401 --> 00:13:39,081 But in fact, to me, the photographs that are the ones that. 203 00:13:39,201 --> 00:13:41,001 It's the ones of childhood - Yeah. 204 00:13:41,201 --> 00:13:44,881 And it's to do with childhood It's not to do with poverty, it's not to do with. 205 00:13:45,841 --> 00:13:48,481 You know, it's That's where the joy comes from. 206 00:13:50,801 --> 00:13:53,961 Your mother wanted to learn 207 00:13:54,161 --> 00:13:56,281 how to take photographs 208 00:13:56,401 --> 00:13:58,281 with a specific 209 00:13:59,401 --> 00:14:00,641 idea in mind. 210 00:14:00,841 --> 00:14:03,401 You know, she wanted to document. 211 00:14:03,521 --> 00:14:06,761 She wanted a photograph to use as evidence and proof 212 00:14:06,961 --> 00:14:09,121 to make people's lives better, 213 00:14:09,241 --> 00:14:11,401 or to stop injustices and that type of thing. 214 00:14:11,601 --> 00:14:13,921 She wasn't interested in the rest of the bollocks, and. 215 00:14:14,041 --> 00:14:18,521 Dennis was subversive, shall we say 216 00:14:18,641 --> 00:14:20,881 I mean, for instance, when we did the studio portraiture, 217 00:14:21,001 --> 00:14:23,801 it was a lot more free than it was probably meant to be. 218 00:14:25,041 --> 00:14:28,041 The problem was that the course she was on wasn't 219 00:14:28,161 --> 00:14:30,201 a course that she should have been on, to be honest. 220 00:14:30,241 --> 00:14:32,201 - Oh Why not? - Because it was too 221 00:14:32,321 --> 00:14:35,601 it was too specifically commercial, which did not include documentary. 222 00:14:35,801 --> 00:14:39,401 So, I did bend the course a little bit. 223 00:14:40,721 --> 00:14:43,121 - This is from Well, it's. - School report? Oh, no! 224 00:14:43,321 --> 00:14:44,921 Oh my God, 225 00:14:45,121 --> 00:14:48,121 "I intended to take pictures of the cemetery railings" 226 00:14:48,321 --> 00:14:50,921 " but the caretaker locked the gates." 227 00:14:51,041 --> 00:14:52,961 "This meant I could only take pictures" 228 00:14:53,081 --> 00:14:55,641 "of the cemetery railings from one angle" 229 00:14:55,761 --> 00:14:57,921 "So, I decided to take the pictures" 230 00:14:58,041 --> 00:15:00,641 "of the railings around the tomb" 231 00:15:00,721 --> 00:15:03,281 "I thought that the wrought iron patterns on the rail" 232 00:15:03,401 --> 00:15:04,961 "were very like funeral urns" 233 00:15:05,081 --> 00:15:07,881 "that went very well with the object they were enclosing." 234 00:15:09,601 --> 00:15:12,441 "On 12A and 13A," 235 00:15:12,561 --> 00:15:14,561 "this is what I was trying to show." 236 00:15:14,681 --> 00:15:18,801 "The other shots were taken to show the different angles" 237 00:15:18,921 --> 00:15:21,801 "but the pictures did not come out as I expected." 238 00:15:21,921 --> 00:15:24,161 "They seemed blurred, and not sharp enough to show" 239 00:15:24,281 --> 00:15:26,241 "the harshness of the subject" 240 00:15:28,961 --> 00:15:30,841 She was true to herself 241 00:15:31,041 --> 00:15:34,401 and she was true to the medium, and 242 00:15:34,521 --> 00:15:38,801 she was brilliant, she was very, very good. 243 00:15:38,921 --> 00:15:42,521 It was like she was born with a silver camera in her hand. 244 00:15:59,601 --> 00:16:01,161 Well, I liked her work. 245 00:16:01,361 --> 00:16:03,177 A lot of it centered around members of her family. 246 00:16:03,201 --> 00:16:05,921 And they were the tough end of working-class life. 247 00:16:06,121 --> 00:16:08,921 And so, she just photographed them, and the penny dropped later 248 00:16:09,041 --> 00:16:12,241 that what they had in common was "unemployed", you know? 249 00:16:12,361 --> 00:16:14,881 And they were in her neighbourhood. 250 00:16:15,081 --> 00:16:19,161 They were good, they were intimate, they were strong, and they were powerful. 251 00:16:19,361 --> 00:16:21,481 They were like her. 252 00:16:23,361 --> 00:16:26,161 She was very brave 'round here, I'll tell you 253 00:16:26,281 --> 00:16:30,081 I mean, people with cameras 'round here are normally people from the DSS. 254 00:16:30,201 --> 00:16:32,961 Or the local police force or whatever. 255 00:16:33,161 --> 00:16:35,601 People become very suspicious 256 00:16:35,721 --> 00:16:38,601 I mean, she took a few chances. 257 00:16:39,881 --> 00:16:44,561 The fact is that people knew she was Tish Murtha, 258 00:16:44,681 --> 00:16:47,481 probably allowed her a little bit more credence. 259 00:16:47,601 --> 00:16:49,561 A bit more leeway, yeah. 260 00:16:50,761 --> 00:16:53,321 She was one of us, you know, one of the kids. 261 00:16:53,441 --> 00:16:55,841 Because of where we lived, 262 00:16:56,041 --> 00:16:59,041 you couldn't just be a passive bystander. 263 00:16:59,161 --> 00:17:01,041 You had to be involved. 264 00:17:01,161 --> 00:17:05,361 She kind of honed her eye, if you like. 265 00:17:05,481 --> 00:17:08,281 And because she was a very determined person, 266 00:17:08,481 --> 00:17:11,641 she wasn't going to be told that, 267 00:17:11,761 --> 00:17:15,761 "Well, you need to take pretty pictures" or, "That's what a camera's for." 268 00:17:15,881 --> 00:17:17,681 She knew, you know, 269 00:17:17,801 --> 00:17:21,121 that what was in front of her was 270 00:17:21,241 --> 00:17:23,361 you know, as important - Yeah 271 00:17:23,481 --> 00:17:26,001 as anything 272 00:17:26,121 --> 00:17:29,161 I think she knew that this was as valid 273 00:17:29,281 --> 00:17:31,881 as any book you picked up and looked at, 274 00:17:32,001 --> 00:17:34,481 that what she was seeing in front of her was our life, 275 00:17:34,601 --> 00:17:37,641 and it needed to give it a value, you know. 276 00:17:37,761 --> 00:17:40,401 - Yeah. - to put it there and say, 277 00:17:40,601 --> 00:17:43,681 you know, "We are here," you know, "We are. 278 00:17:43,801 --> 00:17:46,441 - "We have a value, you know?" - Definitely. 279 00:17:48,361 --> 00:17:50,401 You couldn't go anywhere in this country 280 00:17:50,521 --> 00:17:52,881 and do documentary photography. 281 00:17:53,081 --> 00:17:55,041 There was a magazine in those days, 282 00:17:55,161 --> 00:17:57,337 a photograph magazine called The British Journal of Photography, 283 00:17:57,361 --> 00:18:00,441 and loads of courses were advertised in there. 284 00:18:00,561 --> 00:18:02,521 And I must have, somehow or other, 285 00:18:02,721 --> 00:18:05,201 seen this thing about Newport College of Art. 286 00:18:05,321 --> 00:18:08,161 - Here we go Are you ready for this? - Oh, my. 287 00:18:08,281 --> 00:18:11,441 So, this Have a look at this Just. 288 00:18:13,321 --> 00:18:14,881 "Be at Newport College of Art" 289 00:18:15,081 --> 00:18:17,801 "and ask for David Hurn or John Charity" 290 00:18:17,921 --> 00:18:20,041 "on Tuesday the 25th of May." 291 00:18:20,241 --> 00:18:22,001 "Good luck, Dennis." 292 00:18:22,121 --> 00:18:24,081 Oh, wow Good grief 293 00:18:27,001 --> 00:18:28,921 I remember Tish very clearly. 294 00:18:29,121 --> 00:18:31,881 She was the shortest interview there'd ever been. 295 00:18:32,001 --> 00:18:33,761 Because she came in, the first question was, 296 00:18:33,881 --> 00:18:36,761 "Why do you want to be What do you want to photograph?" 297 00:18:36,881 --> 00:18:38,801 And she literally did say, 298 00:18:38,921 --> 00:18:42,121 "I want to photograph policemen kicking kids," you know? 299 00:18:42,241 --> 00:18:43,561 And I said, "You're in" 300 00:18:45,841 --> 00:18:47,761 It was a bit strange, really. 301 00:18:47,881 --> 00:18:49,801 We all turned up at college that first morning, 302 00:18:49,921 --> 00:18:53,721 and she was a bit sort of concerned as to where she was 303 00:18:53,841 --> 00:18:56,561 going to sort of plonk everything, I think, more than anything else. 304 00:18:56,761 --> 00:19:00,201 And I seem to remember saying to her then, "Where are you staying?" 305 00:19:00,321 --> 00:19:02,961 'Cause everybody I was relatively local. 306 00:19:03,081 --> 00:19:06,601 And your mother sort of said, "Well, I don't know yet I'm still working on it". 307 00:19:06,801 --> 00:19:10,201 And I got the impression, I think, that what her ultimate plan was 308 00:19:10,321 --> 00:19:12,961 that when everybody had gone, she would have probably found 309 00:19:13,081 --> 00:19:16,201 a corner in the darkroom somewhere and settled down 310 00:19:16,321 --> 00:19:18,401 I suggested to her that I had a spare room, 311 00:19:18,521 --> 00:19:21,441 that she was quite welcome to come and stay. 312 00:19:21,641 --> 00:19:23,161 This camera here - Yeah. 313 00:19:23,281 --> 00:19:25,081 - So, this is my mam's OM-1 - Yeah, yeah, yeah 314 00:19:25,121 --> 00:19:27,561 - that she bought on hire purchase. - Yeah, yes 315 00:19:27,681 --> 00:19:29,801 from Dixons Newport - Yeah, yes 316 00:19:30,001 --> 00:19:32,081 in November, 1976. 317 00:19:32,201 --> 00:19:34,121 Yeah - And you were her guarantor. 318 00:19:34,241 --> 00:19:36,801 Oh! 319 00:19:36,921 --> 00:19:41,881 God, that was dangerous "£189" How sweet. 320 00:19:42,081 --> 00:19:44,881 Well, that was one of the most sensible things I did. 321 00:19:46,521 --> 00:19:49,761 I set up this sort of pattern of working 322 00:19:49,881 --> 00:19:54,161 by which you worked with a single person 323 00:19:54,281 --> 00:19:56,121 and then a relationship between people 324 00:19:56,241 --> 00:19:58,281 I had what was called an establishing shot 325 00:19:58,481 --> 00:20:00,161 I've seen it on the contact sheets, yeah. 326 00:20:00,281 --> 00:20:04,201 If you look at the John Ford movie Stagecoach, 327 00:20:04,321 --> 00:20:08,001 the film opens up with a big landscape, 328 00:20:08,121 --> 00:20:10,401 actually in Arizona, 329 00:20:10,521 --> 00:20:14,121 and it's this little, tiny stagecoach going down That's an establishing shot. 330 00:20:14,321 --> 00:20:16,241 It tells you where the film. 331 00:20:16,361 --> 00:20:19,201 The film is taking place out there. 332 00:20:19,321 --> 00:20:22,081 And then it goes in and it shows you the stagecoach, 333 00:20:22,281 --> 00:20:26,401 and then it goes in and you see the close-up of John Wayne. 334 00:20:26,601 --> 00:20:29,921 All I was doing was teaching them how to do that 335 00:20:30,041 --> 00:20:31,961 with any story you did. 336 00:20:32,161 --> 00:20:34,601 And what was good was she didn't fight me on this. 337 00:20:34,801 --> 00:20:37,201 - Did she fight you on much stuff? - Yeah, nearly everything. 338 00:20:37,281 --> 00:20:39,721 But just because she was her. 339 00:20:39,841 --> 00:20:43,841 She obviously felt most comfortable if she felt she was having a say. 340 00:20:44,041 --> 00:20:46,961 Okay - and I loved that. 341 00:20:47,161 --> 00:20:49,241 You see, this is 342 00:20:49,361 --> 00:20:52,481 so typical of her, in that 343 00:20:52,601 --> 00:20:56,241 she would seemingly be this abrasive person, 344 00:20:56,441 --> 00:20:59,161 but she was the person that was keeping her files. 345 00:20:59,281 --> 00:21:01,001 and captioning 346 00:21:01,121 --> 00:21:03,321 and doing all that back at home. 347 00:21:04,721 --> 00:21:06,961 She was quite a firebrand, I suppose, 348 00:21:07,081 --> 00:21:09,041 and you could tell that straight away. 349 00:21:09,161 --> 00:21:10,881 You know, there was no messing about. 350 00:21:11,081 --> 00:21:13,041 It's reflected in her work, isn't it? 351 00:21:13,161 --> 00:21:16,201 It's very gritty and very to-the-point. 352 00:21:16,321 --> 00:21:18,161 But what I think impressed me was that 353 00:21:18,361 --> 00:21:20,697 there must have been quite a few people that she photographed 354 00:21:20,721 --> 00:21:24,121 that would have said, "No," you know, "I don't want to be photographed". 355 00:21:24,321 --> 00:21:27,481 But there was no sort of barrier. 356 00:21:29,281 --> 00:21:31,801 We just got completely 357 00:21:31,921 --> 00:21:34,481 taken over by doing documentary work. 358 00:21:34,681 --> 00:21:37,001 We shot about 20 rolls of film a week, 359 00:21:37,121 --> 00:21:41,641 and we had to go out and do a portrait of a worker or something. 360 00:21:41,681 --> 00:21:44,321 We'd all be going out doing lollipop ladies 361 00:21:44,441 --> 00:21:48,721 and street cleaners, and going into schools and everything. 362 00:21:48,921 --> 00:21:51,561 And Tish went down and went into pubs. 363 00:21:51,681 --> 00:21:53,961 That was her home ground. 364 00:21:54,081 --> 00:21:56,761 And I suppose that's what struck me straight away, 365 00:21:56,881 --> 00:21:59,481 that this was someone who had an agenda. 366 00:22:42,281 --> 00:22:44,641 At the end of the course was the Queen's Jubilee. 367 00:22:46,361 --> 00:22:49,001 So, we all had to take pictures to do with it. 368 00:22:50,281 --> 00:22:52,817 At first, your mother was not interested at all. 369 00:22:52,841 --> 00:22:54,601 So, we did spend a while 370 00:22:54,721 --> 00:22:57,641 sort of persuading her to come round. 371 00:22:57,841 --> 00:23:01,761 If you sort of work down a list of the things that the Jubilee did, 372 00:23:01,881 --> 00:23:05,201 street parties were obviously quite a strong. 373 00:23:05,321 --> 00:23:08,921 And you could break that down into, then, posh street parties, 374 00:23:09,041 --> 00:23:11,801 middle-class street parties and working-class street parties. 375 00:23:12,001 --> 00:23:15,281 And clearly that suddenly became what, in fact, she did. 376 00:24:18,321 --> 00:24:21,521 So, how did Tish make you feel? 377 00:24:21,641 --> 00:24:24,401 I think probably jealous, to certain extent. 378 00:24:24,521 --> 00:24:26,601 - Really? - Yeah, because, I mean 379 00:24:26,721 --> 00:24:28,761 her work was what 380 00:24:28,881 --> 00:24:30,761 the course was about. 381 00:24:30,961 --> 00:24:32,881 One important thing that David taught us, 382 00:24:33,001 --> 00:24:34,921 you had to get empathy with your subject. 383 00:24:35,121 --> 00:24:38,321 Her background obviously helped her do that. 384 00:24:38,441 --> 00:24:42,121 And she had an opportunity to show the rest of the world, I think, 385 00:24:42,321 --> 00:24:45,521 what life was really like. 386 00:24:47,801 --> 00:24:51,761 She had a wonderful picture of a couple 387 00:24:51,881 --> 00:24:54,961 who were a disadvantaged couple who were sleeping on the street. 388 00:24:55,161 --> 00:24:58,921 And it's so tender It is so tender. 389 00:25:01,681 --> 00:25:04,801 She had a passion, and she knew what she wanted to do. 390 00:25:06,001 --> 00:25:08,521 You can't teach somebody how to have passion. 391 00:25:24,001 --> 00:25:26,257 Were you in Newcastle when she came back from Wales? 392 00:25:26,281 --> 00:25:27,721 Yeah, yeah. 393 00:25:27,921 --> 00:25:30,257 - Did you notice a difference in her then? - Absolutely, yes. 394 00:25:30,281 --> 00:25:31,881 And there was so much going on 395 00:25:32,001 --> 00:25:34,001 politically at that time as well, wasn't there? 396 00:25:34,121 --> 00:25:36,401 - Yeah. - You know, there was a whole generation 397 00:25:36,521 --> 00:25:40,361 of disenfranchised and disaffected 398 00:25:40,481 --> 00:25:42,161 young people who had nothing. 399 00:25:42,361 --> 00:25:45,281 There were so many hurdles on the way up, 400 00:25:45,401 --> 00:25:47,361 to her getting to that point - Mm. 401 00:25:47,481 --> 00:25:49,961 The address alone, the area we lived in, 402 00:25:50,081 --> 00:25:52,121 was a no-no, it was a block. 403 00:25:53,361 --> 00:25:55,121 It seemed that 404 00:25:55,241 --> 00:25:59,241 okay, she'd made a step and gone beyond Elswick, 405 00:25:59,441 --> 00:26:02,281 and I think she needed to learn the technical things 406 00:26:02,401 --> 00:26:04,361 and she needed to perfect that 407 00:26:04,561 --> 00:26:08,601 and know how to create a beautiful image, to give it a nice finish, and. 408 00:26:08,801 --> 00:26:11,121 But the actual content 409 00:26:11,241 --> 00:26:14,081 she knew already because she'd lived it. 410 00:26:15,441 --> 00:26:18,641 Last month, vickers Management announced its intention 411 00:26:18,761 --> 00:26:21,401 to close its Scotswood factory in Newcastle, 412 00:26:21,521 --> 00:26:24,281 putting almost 800 jobs at risk. 413 00:26:25,841 --> 00:26:28,441 The workers lodged a campaign to oppose the closure 414 00:26:28,561 --> 00:26:30,521 and issued a list of demands, 415 00:26:30,641 --> 00:26:34,881 including clarification on how the decision to close the factory was made 416 00:26:35,001 --> 00:26:38,961 and disclosure of what discussions have taken place with the government 417 00:26:39,081 --> 00:26:41,761 for financial support and new investment. 418 00:26:41,961 --> 00:26:45,321 Yesterday morning, the workers took over the factory, 419 00:26:45,441 --> 00:26:49,361 locking the doors and gates to stage a sit-in protest. 420 00:26:59,321 --> 00:27:02,961 "I don't like the term 'community photographer '". 421 00:27:03,081 --> 00:27:06,121 "Makes me think of middle-class trendies." 422 00:27:07,361 --> 00:27:09,801 "My use of photography and my approach to it" 423 00:27:09,921 --> 00:27:11,881 "is based on the conviction" 424 00:27:12,001 --> 00:27:14,401 "that the fundamental value of the medium" 425 00:27:14,521 --> 00:27:18,721 "is its capacity to provide direct, accurate and vital records" 426 00:27:18,841 --> 00:27:21,801 "of the conditions, events and experience" 427 00:27:21,921 --> 00:27:24,161 "that shape our lives." 428 00:27:26,881 --> 00:27:29,241 "I've been documenting the human effects of unemployment" 429 00:27:29,361 --> 00:27:31,641 "and the unsuccessful campaign against the closure" 430 00:27:31,761 --> 00:27:34,081 "of Vickers Scotswood Works." 431 00:27:35,881 --> 00:27:39,121 "I hope it shows the effects of unemployment on men" 432 00:27:39,241 --> 00:27:41,521 "and its repercussions on society." 433 00:27:44,041 --> 00:27:48,441 "I think it's a strong exhibition, and can raise a few issues" 434 00:29:08,401 --> 00:29:10,121 ? to see the Blaydon Races 435 00:29:10,241 --> 00:29:14,081 ? Oh, me lads, you should've seen us gannin' 436 00:29:14,201 --> 00:29:18,241 ? Passing the folks along the road Just as they were stannin' 437 00:29:18,361 --> 00:29:20,281 ? There was lots o' lads and lasses there 438 00:29:20,401 --> 00:29:22,681 ? All with smiling faces 439 00:29:22,801 --> 00:29:26,681 ? Gannin' along the Scotswood Road. 440 00:30:06,081 --> 00:30:07,361 She was frightening. 441 00:30:07,561 --> 00:30:09,417 - Frightening? - Your mother was a bit scary, yeah. 442 00:30:09,441 --> 00:30:11,281 Was she? She was only a tiny little thing. 443 00:30:11,481 --> 00:30:15,281 I remember her telling me that the management had taken chisels 444 00:30:15,481 --> 00:30:18,801 to the last two dates on the equipment, so the people couldn't say, 445 00:30:18,921 --> 00:30:21,641 "Well, you know, no wonder the bloody factory isn't efficient" 446 00:30:21,761 --> 00:30:24,601 "because you haven't actually changed this since 1932" 447 00:30:27,681 --> 00:30:31,361 Tish was firmly of the left Yeah, unabashedly of the left. 448 00:30:31,481 --> 00:30:35,841 And she did work for different unions at different times. 449 00:30:35,961 --> 00:30:38,441 Not to get paid, but just to help them. 450 00:30:38,641 --> 00:30:40,561 She was committed She was a committed individual. 451 00:30:40,601 --> 00:30:42,801 She was committed to working-class struggle, 452 00:30:42,921 --> 00:30:45,281 which is continuous and never-ending. 453 00:31:14,561 --> 00:31:17,681 She came from a family with a fierce reputation. 454 00:31:17,801 --> 00:31:21,121 Her brothers were pretty tough, you know You didn't argue with Tish Murtha 455 00:31:21,321 --> 00:31:24,321 'cause you didn't want her brothers going after you, that's for sure. 456 00:31:24,441 --> 00:31:26,281 Whoa, whoa, whoa. 457 00:31:26,401 --> 00:31:28,641 And certainly, you didn't want her dad chasing you. 458 00:31:28,761 --> 00:31:31,441 Oh, God, no Yeah 459 00:31:31,641 --> 00:31:37,081 ? Nell'ora del dolore 460 00:31:44,121 --> 00:31:51,041 ? Perché me ne rimuneri 461 00:31:54,641 --> 00:31:57,801 In the background of our life, there was always this 462 00:31:57,921 --> 00:32:00,841 opera, you know, all these romantic arias. 463 00:32:00,961 --> 00:32:03,801 Yeah - So, that actually 464 00:32:03,921 --> 00:32:07,161 - really sort of heightened the tension. - The tension. 465 00:32:08,441 --> 00:32:10,281 There was all this 466 00:32:10,401 --> 00:32:12,441 you know, sort of aggro, 467 00:32:12,561 --> 00:32:15,761 and you're not knowing whether, when you came in, 468 00:32:15,961 --> 00:32:17,537 what you were going to have to deal with. 469 00:32:17,561 --> 00:32:19,321 I don't know how my Nana did it. 470 00:32:19,441 --> 00:32:21,921 Some of the things she put up with, 471 00:32:22,121 --> 00:32:23,721 other people would have gone, you know. 472 00:32:23,841 --> 00:32:26,081 - Yeah. - in spite of having children. 473 00:32:26,201 --> 00:32:28,441 But she stayed for us. 474 00:32:29,921 --> 00:32:32,481 He was harsh with all his kids. 475 00:32:32,601 --> 00:32:35,081 He was a man of his time, that's all I'm going to say. 476 00:32:35,281 --> 00:32:37,761 He was a man of his time. 477 00:32:54,321 --> 00:32:56,601 How do you get over something like that, Carl? 478 00:33:02,681 --> 00:33:04,601 Even though we were scared of him, 479 00:33:04,721 --> 00:33:06,841 we would challenge him - Yeah. 480 00:33:07,041 --> 00:33:09,441 And it's always quite a dangerous 481 00:33:10,721 --> 00:33:13,521 place to be, because you don't know 482 00:33:13,641 --> 00:33:16,001 where you know, you don't know where the line is. 483 00:33:16,201 --> 00:33:19,921 You know, I think he'd been quite violent with my mother as well. 484 00:33:20,041 --> 00:33:23,961 So, he would line everybody up and say, "Right, everybody, bend over". 485 00:33:24,081 --> 00:33:26,641 He used to like to show people his control. 486 00:33:27,841 --> 00:33:29,521 'Cause he used to use the belt. 487 00:33:29,641 --> 00:33:33,441 Well, I know my mam had she had some scars. 488 00:33:33,641 --> 00:33:36,961 God, yeah - She refused to cry. 489 00:33:37,081 --> 00:33:39,921 Yes Yeah, that's absolutely true. 490 00:33:40,041 --> 00:33:43,041 I think it says a lot about my mam's. 491 00:33:43,161 --> 00:33:45,121 Strength of character Yeah, yeah, yeah. 492 00:33:45,321 --> 00:33:47,721 She wouldn't She wouldn't let him see. 493 00:33:49,841 --> 00:33:53,641 My grand a, he had the fight with the council. 494 00:33:53,841 --> 00:33:56,401 He was threatened with rent arrears. 495 00:33:56,601 --> 00:33:58,961 - So, you were going to be evicted? - Yeah, yeah. 496 00:33:59,161 --> 00:34:03,521 He said, "Well, that'll mean my kids'll end up in care," sort of thing. 497 00:34:03,641 --> 00:34:05,681 You know, "Okay, go ahead and do it". 498 00:34:05,801 --> 00:34:08,201 And he called their bluff, and they did it. 499 00:34:08,401 --> 00:34:09,881 How old were you? 500 00:34:10,001 --> 00:34:12,081 I was four - Oh, my gosh. 501 00:34:12,201 --> 00:34:15,721 And Tish would have been six, six and a half. 502 00:34:15,921 --> 00:34:19,161 We were taken to this huge place 503 00:34:19,281 --> 00:34:22,081 and told we had to be very quiet, and. 504 00:34:23,481 --> 00:34:25,801 We went in and we were lined up. 505 00:34:25,921 --> 00:34:29,321 - And then the nuns all came and. - God 506 00:34:29,441 --> 00:34:31,481 chose which ones they wanted. 507 00:34:31,601 --> 00:34:33,641 You know, "I'll have this one, I'll have that one". 508 00:34:33,761 --> 00:34:36,281 So, we were we were separated. 509 00:34:36,481 --> 00:34:41,161 They were cruel, they were very cruel You know, horrible 510 00:34:41,281 --> 00:34:42,841 quite violent women, they were. 511 00:34:43,041 --> 00:34:46,081 And the funny thing about it, and probably Tish is just the same, 512 00:34:46,201 --> 00:34:51,921 I hadn't realised I was really alive properly until that moment, you know? 513 00:35:05,401 --> 00:35:07,521 She was a very determined person. 514 00:35:07,641 --> 00:35:10,681 She'd come from the School of Hard Knocks, basically, 515 00:35:10,881 --> 00:35:13,161 and I was involved with Side Gallery at the time, 516 00:35:13,281 --> 00:35:15,481 and helped get a commission for Tish 517 00:35:15,601 --> 00:35:18,161 to photograph juvenile jazz bands. 518 00:35:25,521 --> 00:35:29,161 "Although the regimentation and discipline of the Second World War" 519 00:35:29,281 --> 00:35:31,241 "and its accompanying boom in industry" 520 00:35:31,361 --> 00:35:33,561 "encouraged a decline," 521 00:35:33,681 --> 00:35:36,241 "jazz bands have re-entered the scene" 522 00:35:36,361 --> 00:35:39,281 "and re-establish themselves in new form," 523 00:35:39,401 --> 00:35:41,281 "mainly in the areas" 524 00:35:41,401 --> 00:35:44,881 "where economic and social deprivation are the norm." 525 00:35:46,001 --> 00:35:49,601 "These pictures were taken in the west end of Newcastle," 526 00:35:49,721 --> 00:35:54,641 "an area categorized by and noted for its inadequate facilities," 527 00:35:54,761 --> 00:35:59,241 "including everything from housing to public telephones." 528 00:35:59,361 --> 00:36:02,681 "Children's leisure activities are no exception," 529 00:36:02,801 --> 00:36:06,561 "and the jazz band reigns supreme," 530 00:36:06,681 --> 00:36:09,961 "as much a feature of the area as the high-rise flats" 531 00:36:10,081 --> 00:36:13,121 "and the local dole office." 532 00:36:14,441 --> 00:36:16,841 "In addition to the official band," 533 00:36:16,961 --> 00:36:19,641 "small groups of children who, for various reasons," 534 00:36:19,721 --> 00:36:21,601 "are not eligible for membership" 535 00:36:21,721 --> 00:36:26,081 "the jazz band rejects - improvise toy bands." 536 00:36:26,281 --> 00:36:31,161 "These often start out as an attempt to emulate the big band," 537 00:36:31,281 --> 00:36:33,041 "but involve the child's imagination" 538 00:36:33,241 --> 00:36:35,761 "to almost the same extent" 539 00:36:35,881 --> 00:36:38,561 "as the official band denies it." 540 00:36:40,401 --> 00:36:45,001 "To be accepted into and remain in the juvenile jazz band," 541 00:36:45,121 --> 00:36:48,761 "a child must put aside all normal behaviour" 542 00:36:48,881 --> 00:36:52,561 "and become the plaything of the failed soldier," 543 00:36:52,681 --> 00:36:55,801 "the ex-Armed Forces member and their ilk." 544 00:36:56,001 --> 00:36:58,361 "Any spark of individuality" 545 00:36:58,481 --> 00:37:01,521 "is crushed by the military training imposed," 546 00:37:01,641 --> 00:37:03,761 "until the child's actions resemble" 547 00:37:03,881 --> 00:37:06,281 "those of a mechanical tin soldier," 548 00:37:06,401 --> 00:37:09,361 "acting out the confused fantasies" 549 00:37:09,481 --> 00:37:11,441 "of an older generation" 550 00:37:13,721 --> 00:37:17,801 "A recent move by local authorities in Newcastle" 551 00:37:17,921 --> 00:37:21,041 "gives jazz bands the official seal of approval" 552 00:37:21,161 --> 00:37:24,081 "by the allocation of grants from local funds," 553 00:37:24,201 --> 00:37:27,401 "ensuring that, whatever the demand," 554 00:37:27,521 --> 00:37:31,241 "these poor substitutes for creative recreational activity" 555 00:37:31,361 --> 00:37:33,921 "are here to stay" 556 00:37:34,041 --> 00:37:36,561 "with a little help from the taxpayer" 557 00:37:51,801 --> 00:37:53,841 She didn't like juvenile jazz bands. 558 00:37:53,961 --> 00:37:56,521 She thought it was a complete waste of time and energy 559 00:37:56,641 --> 00:37:59,961 to blow in a kazoo when you could have learned a musical instrument. 560 00:38:00,081 --> 00:38:02,921 It used to drive her mad, you know? She hated it. 561 00:38:03,041 --> 00:38:08,121 But she knew it was part of the culture of where she grew up. 562 00:38:08,321 --> 00:38:12,521 It was kind of like the view that this was somehow creative. 563 00:38:12,641 --> 00:38:14,977 And Tish would go on and say, "They're marching up and down there," 564 00:38:15,001 --> 00:38:16,481 "it's like some bloody neo-fascist." 565 00:38:16,681 --> 00:38:19,881 And also, she kind of wasn't very comfortable with the relationship 566 00:38:20,001 --> 00:38:22,841 between the people who were training the young girls 567 00:38:22,961 --> 00:38:24,921 wearing extremely short skirts, you know? 568 00:38:25,041 --> 00:38:27,961 And looking back on it, it is a bit kind of bizarre, isn't it? 569 00:38:28,081 --> 00:38:30,561 But I remember writing a letter to the Evening Chronicle. 570 00:38:30,681 --> 00:38:33,961 Yeah, 'cause people all started writing in calling her the Demon Snapper. 571 00:38:34,161 --> 00:38:37,321 - And I think you wrote in to defend her. - Yeah, I did. 572 00:38:40,121 --> 00:38:43,401 "In reply to letters in Family Extra on April the 4th", 573 00:38:43,521 --> 00:38:47,761 "I would like to make it quite clear I am not attacking individuals" 574 00:38:47,881 --> 00:38:50,841 "or specific juvenile 'jazz' bands." 575 00:38:52,401 --> 00:38:55,841 "Having observed the growth of these bands throughout my childhood," 576 00:38:55,961 --> 00:38:58,521 "I feel I'm as entitled as the next person" 577 00:38:58,641 --> 00:39:02,801 "to draw my own conclusion based on these experiences," 578 00:39:02,921 --> 00:39:05,121 "and I find the photographic medium" 579 00:39:05,241 --> 00:39:07,841 "a suitable vehicle for their expression." 580 00:39:09,121 --> 00:39:12,481 "The amount of controversy generated by the exhibition" 581 00:39:12,601 --> 00:39:15,921 "has been as much a surprise to me as to anyone else." 582 00:39:17,921 --> 00:39:20,081 "Since a discussion is now underway, 583 00:39:20,201 --> 00:39:22,961 "I would like to invite any member of the public 584 00:39:23,081 --> 00:39:27,321 "to bring their views to a debate scheduled for April the 25th at 7:30pm 585 00:39:27,441 --> 00:39:30,081 "at the Side Gallery. 586 00:39:30,201 --> 00:39:34,041 "Hopefully, the issue can be thoroughly and fairly discussed. 587 00:39:35,361 --> 00:39:37,681 "Tish Murtha, 588 00:39:37,801 --> 00:39:40,081 "the Demon Snapper" 589 00:39:41,201 --> 00:39:43,297 She didn't come across as a person that you would mess with. 590 00:39:43,321 --> 00:39:44,881 Did she not? 591 00:39:45,001 --> 00:39:47,321 Not that easily, you know. 592 00:39:47,441 --> 00:39:51,161 No, she didn't mind upsetting people, if it brought the agenda forward 593 00:39:51,361 --> 00:39:53,681 that it was militaristic, that most of these bands were run 594 00:39:53,721 --> 00:39:57,401 by failed Sergeant Majors from the Army, 595 00:39:57,521 --> 00:40:00,241 bullying the kids into being performing monkeys, really. 596 00:40:00,441 --> 00:40:03,601 It's very important that people from within communities 597 00:40:03,721 --> 00:40:05,601 record their own community. 598 00:40:05,801 --> 00:40:09,721 If there's any bleakness in my work, it was bleakness that I felt. 599 00:40:09,921 --> 00:40:12,761 You know, the thing is with myself and your mam, 600 00:40:12,881 --> 00:40:15,137 you know, we were living in these marginalized communities. 601 00:40:15,161 --> 00:40:17,961 We were part of the community, which was a rare thing at the time. 602 00:40:18,081 --> 00:40:21,361 It's a different story when you're actually from the place you're working in. 603 00:40:21,561 --> 00:40:24,801 You've got the mentality that you're photographing your people, really. 604 00:40:24,921 --> 00:40:26,481 You're part of the tribe, 605 00:40:26,681 --> 00:40:30,361 and you're trying to do your best to represent the tribe in the best way. 606 00:40:30,561 --> 00:40:33,401 You know, when I first saw your mam's jazz band work, 607 00:40:33,601 --> 00:40:35,521 I was just amazed how close she got in to people. 608 00:40:35,561 --> 00:40:38,641 She spent time with people, which is obvious. 609 00:40:38,761 --> 00:40:41,441 You've got to invest a lot of time actually getting to know people 610 00:40:41,561 --> 00:40:43,481 before you can get close to people 611 00:40:43,601 --> 00:40:46,041 and where the camera becomes a secondary thing, 612 00:40:46,161 --> 00:40:49,801 you're just there as part of the crowd and you're documenting things. 613 00:40:50,001 --> 00:40:52,161 She invested a lot of time in her work. 614 00:40:52,281 --> 00:40:54,361 She would spend months and months 615 00:40:54,481 --> 00:40:56,681 photographing these kids in Elswick. 616 00:40:56,761 --> 00:40:59,761 There's a photograph with a guy with a cigarette hanging out his mouth, 617 00:40:59,881 --> 00:41:01,737 - he's playing cards and stuff like that. - Yeah. 618 00:41:01,761 --> 00:41:04,721 To take a photograph like that, you've got to be there 619 00:41:04,841 --> 00:41:07,721 for a long, long time, to study what's going on 620 00:41:07,921 --> 00:41:10,057 I would like to see the photographs either side of that one. 621 00:41:10,081 --> 00:41:11,121 Mm. 622 00:41:11,321 --> 00:41:15,401 Tish used to work on a body of work, rather than just a single image, 623 00:41:15,521 --> 00:41:19,041 where you're building up a story, you're building up the narrative, 624 00:41:19,161 --> 00:41:21,601 and you're bringing all these characters in, you know, 625 00:41:21,801 --> 00:41:23,761 and it builds a wider picture, 626 00:41:23,881 --> 00:41:26,681 rather than just one single portrait. 627 00:41:43,481 --> 00:41:47,001 I'd been sitting on our wall, 628 00:41:47,201 --> 00:41:49,161 the front of the house, 629 00:41:49,281 --> 00:41:51,401 just entertaining the kids as they went by. 630 00:41:51,601 --> 00:41:55,041 All the kids seemed to run over the road and went in this direction. 631 00:41:55,161 --> 00:41:57,441 And when we got there, we saw these, 632 00:41:57,561 --> 00:42:00,681 my brothers jumping out of the top window. 633 00:42:00,801 --> 00:42:05,161 That type of activity was all day long Nothing else for them to do. 634 00:42:05,361 --> 00:42:08,281 - That is reality That's the way it was. - That was your life. 635 00:42:08,401 --> 00:42:11,321 And that's We're entitled to show it. 636 00:42:13,441 --> 00:42:15,521 What were you thinking about on that wall? 637 00:42:18,441 --> 00:42:19,681 Do you have a favourite? 638 00:42:36,761 --> 00:42:39,921 I love this one of you You're stunning, do you know, like. 639 00:42:40,081 --> 00:42:41,321 What was happening there, then? 640 00:42:48,241 --> 00:42:49,321 Yeah. 641 00:42:56,721 --> 00:42:59,201 There you are "Handle With Care" 642 00:43:11,961 --> 00:43:14,121 What did you want to do, then, when you grew up? 643 00:43:15,881 --> 00:43:17,641 You wanted to be an actor? 644 00:43:17,841 --> 00:43:21,641 "Carl was admitted to John Marley School in September, 1977." 645 00:43:21,841 --> 00:43:25,081 "He is an honest young man, and we have no hesitation" 646 00:43:25,201 --> 00:43:28,041 "in recommending him for any position of trust." 647 00:43:28,241 --> 00:43:31,481 "This letter is intended to be shown to prospective employers." 648 00:43:31,681 --> 00:43:32,881 And you were just. 649 00:43:34,201 --> 00:43:35,401 And you were sent out to just. 650 00:43:35,721 --> 00:43:37,201 It's just slave labour. 651 00:43:52,721 --> 00:43:55,241 It was a Thatcherite scheme 652 00:43:55,441 --> 00:43:57,881 to take the numbers down of the youth unemployed. 653 00:43:58,001 --> 00:44:00,041 It was a Youth Opportunity scheme. 654 00:44:00,241 --> 00:44:03,881 For your dole money, you had to join a scheme 655 00:44:04,001 --> 00:44:06,481 that would do voluntary work here and there. 656 00:44:06,601 --> 00:44:09,201 But that's all you were ever going to be good for. 657 00:44:09,321 --> 00:44:12,161 You can see why some of these kids turned to crime. 658 00:44:12,281 --> 00:44:15,921 They were forced onto these silly schemes that led to nowhere. 659 00:44:16,121 --> 00:44:18,561 "We'll stop your money if you don't go on it," you know? 660 00:44:18,681 --> 00:44:23,041 And treating them like they were little children of serfdom. 661 00:44:24,561 --> 00:44:27,561 She was seeing her brothers, particularly, 662 00:44:27,681 --> 00:44:29,521 who, literally, they were 663 00:44:29,721 --> 00:44:33,241 they were a forgotten generation of young people. 664 00:44:33,441 --> 00:44:37,441 There was nothing for them You were often sent for an interview, 665 00:44:37,561 --> 00:44:39,761 but soon as they knew you were from Elswick, 666 00:44:39,881 --> 00:44:41,881 you didn't stand much chance. 667 00:44:44,561 --> 00:44:47,641 Tish identified with youth unemployment 668 00:44:47,761 --> 00:44:49,081 because she was unemployed. 669 00:44:49,281 --> 00:44:53,001 She knew exactly what was happening to them, what a struggle it was. 670 00:44:53,121 --> 00:44:55,161 She was so angry about it. 671 00:44:55,281 --> 00:44:57,801 She 672 00:44:57,921 --> 00:45:00,281 She recorded her friends in their struggles, 673 00:45:00,401 --> 00:45:02,961 these young kids who couldn't get jobs, you know? 674 00:45:03,081 --> 00:45:05,441 They'd left school without any qualifications, 675 00:45:05,561 --> 00:45:08,017 and if they had qualifications, what job were they going to get? 676 00:45:08,041 --> 00:45:09,321 There were no jobs going. 677 00:45:10,681 --> 00:45:14,121 Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. 678 00:45:14,241 --> 00:45:17,241 Where there is error, may we bring truth. 679 00:45:17,361 --> 00:45:20,321 Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. 680 00:45:20,441 --> 00:45:23,441 And where there is despair, may we bring hope. 681 00:45:56,481 --> 00:45:58,561 "High levels of unemployment" 682 00:45:58,681 --> 00:46:01,081 "have always been a hard and constant feature" 683 00:46:01,201 --> 00:46:03,721 "of life in the west end of Newcastle." 684 00:46:04,881 --> 00:46:07,801 "The area, built up in the 19th century" 685 00:46:07,921 --> 00:46:10,561 "on the basis of heavy engineering and shipbuilding," 686 00:46:10,681 --> 00:46:13,801 "once at the very centre of the economy," 687 00:46:13,921 --> 00:46:15,921 "has been contending with the accumulated effects" 688 00:46:16,041 --> 00:46:19,841 "of industrial decline and stagnation for much of the century," 689 00:46:19,961 --> 00:46:22,161 "and its physical symptoms are apparent" 690 00:46:22,281 --> 00:46:26,241 "in the area's general air of dereliction and decay." 691 00:46:29,121 --> 00:46:31,481 "The official assessments place the actual number" 692 00:46:31,601 --> 00:46:35,561 "out of work in this area at 1,700." 693 00:46:35,681 --> 00:46:38,841 "Over double the rate in comparison with the rest of Newcastle." 694 00:46:40,561 --> 00:46:43,681 "Approximately 1,100 of these" 695 00:46:43,801 --> 00:46:46,321 "are under the age of 30." 696 00:46:46,441 --> 00:46:49,881 "Clearly a very serious situation." 697 00:46:51,201 --> 00:46:54,121 "Nevertheless, the Government's Youth Opportunity Programme" 698 00:46:54,241 --> 00:46:56,441 "obscures the real situation," 699 00:46:56,561 --> 00:47:00,081 "as those participating are officially termed 'employed'" 700 00:47:00,201 --> 00:47:02,361 "and never enter the statistics" 701 00:47:06,041 --> 00:47:09,921 "Carl Murtha left school in summer, 1979" 702 00:47:10,041 --> 00:47:13,241 "with a number of qualifications, an excellent reference 703 00:47:13,361 --> 00:47:15,641 "and an ambition to work in some capacity 704 00:47:15,761 --> 00:47:18,481 "with a drama workshop. 705 00:47:18,601 --> 00:47:20,521 "His experiences since then 706 00:47:20,641 --> 00:47:24,201 "have convinced him that he and hundreds of others like him 707 00:47:24,321 --> 00:47:28,401 "will never be allowed to be anything more than part of the growing reserves 708 00:47:28,521 --> 00:47:32,401 "of a fully-expendable cheap labour market. 709 00:47:32,521 --> 00:47:37,321 "After six weeks of constant searching for work to no avail, 710 00:47:37,441 --> 00:47:41,041 "Carl and his mate Cuddles, from the same street, 711 00:47:41,161 --> 00:47:43,721 "received cards from the Career Centre, 712 00:47:43,841 --> 00:47:47,961 "which informed them that, 'An exciting opportunity has arisen. 713 00:47:48,081 --> 00:47:50,441 "" Report to this office at once ' 714 00:47:51,601 --> 00:47:54,041 "They were asked to hand in these cards," 715 00:47:54,161 --> 00:47:57,321 "and told to report to the city's cleansing department," 716 00:47:57,441 --> 00:47:59,361 "where they were officially introduced" 717 00:47:59,481 --> 00:48:02,081 "to the joys of sweeping the Newcastle streets," 718 00:48:02,201 --> 00:48:05,441 "one of the Manpower Services Commission schemes" 719 00:48:05,561 --> 00:48:07,561 "of the YOP." 720 00:48:09,441 --> 00:48:12,201 "The main criticisms of both lads on the scheme" 721 00:48:12,321 --> 00:48:16,041 "was not the small wage of £2055" 722 00:48:16,161 --> 00:48:19,641 "for 40 hours per week hard graft," 723 00:48:19,761 --> 00:48:23,921 "usually in atrocious weather conditions," 724 00:48:24,041 --> 00:48:26,641 "but the physical and mental bullying" 725 00:48:26,761 --> 00:48:29,401 "of the work's gaffers," 726 00:48:29,521 --> 00:48:32,041 "one of whom had the strange habit" 727 00:48:32,161 --> 00:48:36,721 "of sticking brush shanks through the dungarees of the smaller-built lads" 728 00:48:37,881 --> 00:48:40,641 "and hanging them from the nearest beam" 729 00:48:40,761 --> 00:48:45,441 "until he had the curious satisfaction of seeing them burst into tears." 730 00:48:46,921 --> 00:48:48,761 "One lad in particular" 731 00:48:49,001 --> 00:48:51,681 "was singled out for a stronger dose of this treatment." 732 00:48:51,801 --> 00:48:55,121 "He's now receiving psychiatric help." 733 00:48:55,241 --> 00:48:58,561 "The charge hand responsible for the bullying" 734 00:48:58,681 --> 00:49:01,521 "has now joined the police force" 735 00:49:04,481 --> 00:49:09,041 "Young people, already experiencing the problems of adolescence", 736 00:49:09,161 --> 00:49:11,601 "are left to cope alone with a situation" 737 00:49:11,721 --> 00:49:15,641 "that their educational training has not prepared them for," 738 00:49:15,761 --> 00:49:19,001 "forcing them into a state of premature redundancy" 739 00:49:19,201 --> 00:49:24,041 "the minute they pass through the school gates for the last time." 740 00:49:24,161 --> 00:49:28,681 "What is becoming clear to the generation now approaching maturity" 741 00:49:28,801 --> 00:49:33,241 "is that our society has no solutions for their problems," 742 00:49:33,361 --> 00:49:36,281 "can give no direction to their lives." 743 00:49:38,401 --> 00:49:41,561 "Unemployment and all its associated deprivations" 744 00:49:41,681 --> 00:49:44,481 "are not only getting worse," 745 00:49:44,601 --> 00:49:49,441 "but new technologies threaten to make the situation permanent." 746 00:49:51,361 --> 00:49:55,721 "Behind empty, pathetic talk of increased leisure opportunities" 747 00:49:55,841 --> 00:49:58,641 "and freedom from repetitive labour," 748 00:49:58,761 --> 00:50:04,441 "stands the spectre of enforced idleness, wasted resources" 749 00:50:04,561 --> 00:50:09,281 "and the squandering of a whole generation of human potential" 750 00:50:11,841 --> 00:50:17,441 "This is vandalism on a grand scale" 751 00:50:21,721 --> 00:50:24,601 "Hidden in a smokescreen of cynical doubletalk" 752 00:50:24,721 --> 00:50:27,281 "and pious moralising," 753 00:50:27,401 --> 00:50:30,281 "the shape of the future" 754 00:50:30,401 --> 00:50:34,121 "is nevertheless clearly discernible." 755 00:50:34,241 --> 00:50:36,401 "Cuts in social spending," 756 00:50:36,521 --> 00:50:39,801 "including unemployment benefits," 757 00:50:39,921 --> 00:50:45,601 "mean that the conditions under which they must endure their enforced idleness" 758 00:50:45,721 --> 00:50:50,521 "will rapidly deteriorate to become an intolerable burden," 759 00:50:50,641 --> 00:50:54,041 "the consequences of which will be enormous." 760 00:50:55,441 --> 00:50:57,681 "No established channels exist" 761 00:50:57,801 --> 00:51:01,721 "to represent or even acknowledge the interests of those involved," 762 00:51:01,841 --> 00:51:05,561 "and the failure of the political parties and even the trade unions" 763 00:51:05,681 --> 00:51:09,641 "to contribute anything other than platitudes to the situation" 764 00:51:09,761 --> 00:51:13,281 "increases the alienation of the youth still further." 765 00:51:14,721 --> 00:51:16,801 "The intractable nature of this problem," 766 00:51:16,921 --> 00:51:19,681 "intensified as it is by the Thatcher government's" 767 00:51:19,801 --> 00:51:23,121 "extreme free market philosophy," 768 00:51:23,321 --> 00:51:26,561 "opens up a period of bitter conflict," 769 00:51:26,681 --> 00:51:29,761 "as young people grow more and more frustrated," 770 00:51:29,881 --> 00:51:33,081 "and refuse to accept the logic of an economic system" 771 00:51:33,281 --> 00:51:37,361 "which deprives them of a productive and meaningful future" 772 00:51:40,761 --> 00:51:44,241 "It must never be forgotten" 773 00:51:44,361 --> 00:51:48,201 "that there are barbaric and reactionary forces in our society," 774 00:51:48,321 --> 00:51:51,521 "who, while having no intrinsic appeal to the youth themselves," 775 00:51:51,641 --> 00:51:54,681 "will not be slow to make political capital" 776 00:51:54,801 --> 00:51:56,841 "from an embittered youth," 777 00:51:56,961 --> 00:51:59,041 "should the labour movement fail" 778 00:51:59,161 --> 00:52:02,961 "to give their search for new social, economic and political values" 779 00:52:03,081 --> 00:52:06,361 "a positive and sustained direction" 780 00:52:06,561 --> 00:52:10,441 Tish Murtha May, 1980. 781 00:52:18,361 --> 00:52:20,321 She was really angry. 782 00:52:26,721 --> 00:52:28,401 Really? 783 00:52:32,401 --> 00:52:35,321 Obviously, you're her youngest brother and she loved you very much, 784 00:52:35,441 --> 00:52:37,561 and she was so angry 785 00:52:37,681 --> 00:52:40,641 at what was happening to you and all of your friends, do you know? 786 00:52:40,761 --> 00:52:42,881 The only thing she could do to try and help you 787 00:52:42,921 --> 00:52:45,041 was to shine a light. 788 00:52:46,401 --> 00:52:48,641 I mean, 'cause it got talked about in Parliament. 789 00:53:06,881 --> 00:53:08,321 So, did she break you? 790 00:53:09,841 --> 00:53:10,841 Good. 791 00:53:23,961 --> 00:53:26,097 There's this whole thing about documentary photography, 792 00:53:26,121 --> 00:53:28,281 and it's about getting stuff published, 793 00:53:28,401 --> 00:53:32,441 as in, is it kind of like art when it's in galleries? How does it fit in? 794 00:53:32,561 --> 00:53:35,521 You know, so much of it is whether you do fit in, 795 00:53:35,641 --> 00:53:39,281 whether you hit the Is it new? Is it different? 796 00:53:39,481 --> 00:53:42,961 Are you authentic? Are you gritty enough? 797 00:53:43,161 --> 00:53:47,441 And your mother wasn't into that type of stuff at all, 798 00:53:47,641 --> 00:53:49,601 do you know what I mean? 799 00:53:49,721 --> 00:53:52,681 I think myself and Tish were more or less seen as novelties, really. 800 00:53:52,881 --> 00:53:55,361 Both natives of the Northeast. 801 00:53:55,481 --> 00:53:58,241 And we were doing it for ourselves, really. 802 00:53:58,361 --> 00:54:01,881 Had I came from a different background, I probably would have had more chance 803 00:54:02,001 --> 00:54:04,721 of breaking the so-called "art world". 804 00:54:04,841 --> 00:54:08,081 If you don't keep above a certain level with exhibitions and stuff like that, 805 00:54:08,201 --> 00:54:09,841 it's very easy to drop out of it. 806 00:54:10,041 --> 00:54:12,361 For someone like Tish, who was uncompromising, 807 00:54:12,481 --> 00:54:14,921 she would have found it very difficult to toe the line. 808 00:54:15,121 --> 00:54:18,281 You've just got to have the determination to see things through. 809 00:54:18,481 --> 00:54:21,641 A lot of her good work was done before any involvement 810 00:54:21,761 --> 00:54:23,881 with anything like Side Gallery 811 00:54:24,001 --> 00:54:26,121 I got support from Northern Arts, 812 00:54:26,241 --> 00:54:28,841 and I'd had support from the Arts Council of Great Britain 813 00:54:28,961 --> 00:54:32,881 I can't remember Tish getting any support from either of those bodies. 814 00:54:36,361 --> 00:54:38,761 "Dear Dennis", 815 00:54:38,881 --> 00:54:42,281 "I left the Side Gallery, for a number of reasons," 816 00:54:42,401 --> 00:54:46,001 "but mainly because of their peculiar attitude towards me and my work." 817 00:54:47,081 --> 00:54:50,441 "They wanted to manipulate it to fit their group philosophy of," 818 00:54:50,561 --> 00:54:53,281 "'Working-class culture and poverty is beautiful, man '." 819 00:54:53,401 --> 00:54:55,961 "Oh, it's sickening." 820 00:54:56,081 --> 00:54:59,601 "On top of that, they wouldn't provide adequate darkroom facilities" 821 00:54:59,721 --> 00:55:02,321 "to do the work they employed me to do." 822 00:55:02,441 --> 00:55:06,641 "And the boss's girlfriend was getting really spiteful and bitchy towards us," 823 00:55:06,761 --> 00:55:09,121 "damaging expensive photographic work" 824 00:55:09,241 --> 00:55:11,321 "by bursting into the darkroom," 825 00:55:11,441 --> 00:55:14,721 "switching lights on, accidentally on purpose." 826 00:55:16,761 --> 00:55:20,361 "So, as they obviously thought it was all a big joke," 827 00:55:20,481 --> 00:55:24,881 "and thought I should just be grateful for any situation they offered," 828 00:55:25,001 --> 00:55:27,201 "I told them where to stick the job," 829 00:55:27,321 --> 00:55:31,561 "and what an offensive, incestuous little clique they were." 830 00:55:33,881 --> 00:55:37,081 "Anyway, I won my case against them", 831 00:55:37,201 --> 00:55:40,761 "and got six weeks' full dole benefit backdated" 832 00:55:43,961 --> 00:55:47,921 "Financially, things are a bit rough at the moment", 833 00:55:48,041 --> 00:55:51,081 "but I'm a damn sight happier out of their clutches." 834 00:55:53,801 --> 00:55:57,641 "This photography world and those who operate it" 835 00:55:57,761 --> 00:56:00,801 "really make you sick at times" 836 00:56:22,841 --> 00:56:26,321 - She moved to London, I think, '82 - Yeah. 837 00:56:26,521 --> 00:56:28,321 I think so That's Karen. 838 00:56:28,441 --> 00:56:30,681 And she was a dancer wasn't she, from Canada? 839 00:56:30,801 --> 00:56:31,841 Yeah. 840 00:56:32,041 --> 00:56:34,121 They were living in a shared house. 841 00:56:34,241 --> 00:56:36,921 My mam had got this commission from the Photographers' Gallery 842 00:56:37,041 --> 00:56:39,801 to do this project on Soho and sex workers. 843 00:56:39,921 --> 00:56:43,001 And Karen was working in Soho So, they worked together, 844 00:56:43,121 --> 00:56:45,481 they collaborated - Yeah. 845 00:56:50,801 --> 00:56:52,761 "Dear Merylin", 846 00:56:52,881 --> 00:56:56,241 "Karen and I had tea with three male prostitutes last Sunday," 847 00:56:56,361 --> 00:56:59,321 "in a semi-detached house in Wimbledon," 848 00:56:59,441 --> 00:57:02,841 "where we had cucumber sandwiches with the crust removed." 849 00:57:02,961 --> 00:57:07,561 "Earl Grey tea, and indulged in nothing but polite conversation." 850 00:57:07,681 --> 00:57:09,641 "It was most bizarre." 851 00:57:09,761 --> 00:57:12,921 "Anyway, we managed to behave ourselves" 852 00:57:13,041 --> 00:57:15,561 "and have been invited back." 853 00:57:15,681 --> 00:57:18,761 "Best wishes, Tish Murtha." 854 00:57:18,881 --> 00:57:21,441 "PS Soho going well." 855 00:57:21,561 --> 00:57:24,161 "Was working all night last Tuesday," 856 00:57:24,281 --> 00:57:27,561 "but was chased off by a transvestite with an axe." 857 00:57:27,761 --> 00:57:31,001 "Will try again 'cause I need the money" 858 00:57:35,881 --> 00:57:40,001 I think I met your mum in London, in Camden 859 00:57:40,121 --> 00:57:41,401 through Karen, 860 00:57:41,601 --> 00:57:46,001 and she was featured in the nightlife, sort of Soho. 861 00:57:46,201 --> 00:57:48,721 So, we were sort of just out of college 862 00:57:48,841 --> 00:57:51,041 and just starting to work as an actor. 863 00:57:51,161 --> 00:57:53,201 And then these things we sort of developed 864 00:57:53,321 --> 00:57:55,561 so that we had some sort of income. 865 00:57:55,761 --> 00:57:58,641 We just clicked Had a good eye 866 00:57:58,761 --> 00:58:01,561 I knew she could take a good picture, if you know what I mean. 867 00:58:01,761 --> 00:58:04,241 And then your mum used to come with us on the circuit 868 00:58:04,361 --> 00:58:06,001 and she used to meet the girls. 869 00:58:07,961 --> 00:58:12,441 The circuit was about a dozen strip clubs where all the girls would work. 870 00:58:12,561 --> 00:58:16,281 So, it was Mayfair and Soho, and you'd start about 871 00:58:16,481 --> 00:58:18,761 8:00, 9:00, and finish about 2:00 in the morning. 872 00:58:18,961 --> 00:58:20,241 Wow. 873 00:58:20,361 --> 00:58:24,201 You'd do ten minutes, ten times or 12 times a night. 874 00:58:24,401 --> 00:58:26,321 A lot of them weren't licensed, 875 00:58:26,441 --> 00:58:29,041 but they'd have the punters drinking non-alcoholic lager, 876 00:58:29,241 --> 00:58:34,121 not knowing that they were drinking non-alcoholic lager. 877 00:58:34,321 --> 00:58:37,481 And then sometimes you'd go in and do the act again after you'd done the circuit 878 00:58:37,601 --> 00:58:40,601 and it'd still be the same punter there, with the hostess. 879 00:58:40,801 --> 00:58:44,681 But the actual exhibition went down very well, 880 00:58:44,881 --> 00:58:47,921 and a lot of the girls on the circuit came. 881 00:58:48,121 --> 00:58:50,201 It was a celebration - Yeah 882 00:58:50,321 --> 00:58:52,961 and the pictures were astounding. 883 00:58:53,161 --> 00:58:56,921 It was like an intimate look into the other side of Soho. 884 00:58:57,041 --> 00:59:01,961 So, there were prostitutes, strippers, punters. 885 00:59:02,081 --> 00:59:04,441 But nothing was posed - No. 886 00:59:04,561 --> 00:59:08,961 I think even there was one of Karen outside the theatre, 887 00:59:09,081 --> 00:59:11,201 sort of standing against this light, 888 00:59:11,401 --> 00:59:13,201 and it sort of summed up. 889 00:59:13,321 --> 00:59:17,521 It was a rainy night in the West End, you know, but people still work. 890 01:01:01,201 --> 01:01:04,761 She was rushing around, and, I mean, she was. 891 01:01:04,961 --> 01:01:07,961 You can see there how skinny she was, do you know? 892 01:01:08,081 --> 01:01:10,361 And she said she'd gone to the doctors 893 01:01:10,561 --> 01:01:12,401 and she thought she was dying, 894 01:01:12,521 --> 01:01:14,881 and the doctor had recommended that she drink, 895 01:01:15,001 --> 01:01:16,817 I think it was half a pint of Guinness every night. 896 01:01:16,841 --> 01:01:20,721 So, she was drinking this Guinness, and she wasn't really feeling any better. 897 01:01:20,921 --> 01:01:24,321 But she had gone back to this doctor, and she was saying, "I think I'm dying," 898 01:01:24,441 --> 01:01:27,601 and it turned out she was pregnant with me. 899 01:01:27,801 --> 01:01:29,961 Your mum got bigger and bigger with you. 900 01:01:30,081 --> 01:01:32,801 and we agreed 901 01:01:33,001 --> 01:01:35,521 that I could photograph your birth, 902 01:01:35,641 --> 01:01:40,081 and set up shop in the labour room with her and Jimmy 903 01:01:40,281 --> 01:01:44,001 I've brought some contact sheets that you made, to have a look at. 904 01:01:45,041 --> 01:01:46,961 They're so beautiful 905 01:01:47,081 --> 01:01:50,201 I can see why she wanted you to take them 906 01:01:50,321 --> 01:01:52,401 I mean, this. 907 01:01:52,521 --> 01:01:55,401 That's like - You emerging. 908 01:01:55,601 --> 01:01:58,601 - Wow. - With your little dark hair. 909 01:01:58,721 --> 01:02:03,001 For birth pictures, they're significant, but they're not very pretty. 910 01:02:03,201 --> 01:02:06,161 She loved them I think my absolute favourite. 911 01:02:06,281 --> 01:02:08,161 - And it's, like, where, like. - Oh, yes 912 01:02:08,201 --> 01:02:09,961 she's waiting to meet me. 913 01:02:10,161 --> 01:02:12,881 - And I just think the lighting. - The lighting was terrific. 914 01:02:13,001 --> 01:02:15,681 - She was so proud. - Well, it was a lovely moment. 915 01:02:15,801 --> 01:02:19,041 And it was good that your dad came along, 916 01:02:19,161 --> 01:02:21,761 'cause Jimmy holding Tish. 917 01:02:21,881 --> 01:02:26,721 I'm glad that, you know, she had some support I'm glad you were there. 918 01:02:26,841 --> 01:02:29,521 All the time your mum was pregnant, 919 01:02:29,641 --> 01:02:31,761 she knew she was going to have a boy. 920 01:02:31,881 --> 01:02:35,441 - You were going to be called Nimrod. - Oh, my Why?! 921 01:02:35,641 --> 01:02:37,681 Well, Nimrod Variations, Elgar, 922 01:02:37,801 --> 01:02:41,481 you know, her favourite classical musician. 923 01:02:41,601 --> 01:02:44,281 But then you came out and you were a little girl. 924 01:02:57,641 --> 01:02:59,681 "It's 9:00." 925 01:02:59,801 --> 01:03:03,401 "It's very late for a baby girl to be awake." 926 01:03:04,561 --> 01:03:06,761 "She should settle down now" 927 01:03:06,881 --> 01:03:09,881 "or she'll never wake up for Ramona and Dennis." 928 01:03:11,561 --> 01:03:13,601 "Goodnight, dear Ella." 929 01:03:14,681 --> 01:03:16,241 "I give you my heart" 930 01:03:18,321 --> 01:03:20,281 And then once you were born, 931 01:03:20,401 --> 01:03:23,361 you more or less became sort of a fixture 932 01:03:23,481 --> 01:03:25,281 in our social life. 933 01:03:25,481 --> 01:03:28,201 And it was Tish, and then Tish and Ella. 934 01:03:28,321 --> 01:03:30,241 And "Tish and Ella" was almost one word. 935 01:03:30,361 --> 01:03:32,801 Yeah, Tish and Ella against the world. 936 01:03:33,001 --> 01:03:36,081 And I just then became your fairy godfather 937 01:03:36,201 --> 01:03:39,521 I didn't want to be your godfather 'cause I'm not particularly religious. 938 01:03:39,641 --> 01:03:43,801 So, that's why I decided to be your fairy godfather. 939 01:03:43,921 --> 01:03:46,201 And you were in and out of the darkroom with her. 940 01:03:46,321 --> 01:03:49,241 'Cause I can remember, when you were tiny, you used to watch the photos. 941 01:03:49,441 --> 01:03:50,961 And I used to watch her develop stuff. 942 01:03:51,161 --> 01:03:52,921 - It was magical, wasn't it? - Yeah. 943 01:03:54,201 --> 01:03:56,081 I saw a statistic recently 944 01:03:56,201 --> 01:04:01,041 80% of women are in education about photography, 945 01:04:01,241 --> 01:04:03,921 - but then actually working in it. - Mm 946 01:04:04,041 --> 01:04:06,161 it's only something like 15%. 947 01:04:06,281 --> 01:04:10,201 And it's just interesting to try and understand 948 01:04:10,321 --> 01:04:13,921 why so many women can't make a go. 949 01:04:14,041 --> 01:04:16,001 It's a very male-dominated. 950 01:04:16,201 --> 01:04:18,921 Yeah, well, I think 951 01:04:19,041 --> 01:04:22,241 I know I could've, and I was capable of doing it, 952 01:04:22,361 --> 01:04:25,121 but I couldn't with having a child, 953 01:04:25,241 --> 01:04:27,881 'cause I couldn't work out how to look after 954 01:04:28,001 --> 01:04:30,081 you know, I couldn't afford a child-minder. 955 01:04:30,281 --> 01:04:32,361 It just seems, though, like, it's always women. 956 01:04:32,481 --> 01:04:34,761 It's always women who have to sacrifice their careers 957 01:04:34,881 --> 01:04:36,801 I feel. 958 01:04:36,921 --> 01:04:39,761 The time in my mam's life, do you know, that she'd moved to London, 959 01:04:39,961 --> 01:04:42,601 she was having that exhibition at the Photographers' Gallery. 960 01:04:42,721 --> 01:04:44,841 She was on the cusp of huge things. 961 01:04:44,961 --> 01:04:47,361 - And obviously I wasn't planned. - Mm 962 01:04:47,561 --> 01:04:49,281 and I arrived, 963 01:04:49,401 --> 01:04:52,201 and I've always felt really responsible, 964 01:04:52,321 --> 01:04:54,041 do you know, because it's difficult. 965 01:04:54,161 --> 01:04:56,601 You can't with a kid in tow, when you're a single mam. 966 01:04:56,801 --> 01:04:59,401 No, but 967 01:04:59,521 --> 01:05:04,161 the other side is that Tish was given, offered opportunities 968 01:05:04,281 --> 01:05:06,161 I mean, everyone recognised her talent 969 01:05:06,361 --> 01:05:08,561 I mean, I got her a job teaching. 970 01:05:08,681 --> 01:05:10,641 Lasted half a day. 971 01:05:12,761 --> 01:05:15,241 She wouldn't, she couldn't compromise. 972 01:05:15,361 --> 01:05:17,881 She had to be a photographer. 973 01:05:18,001 --> 01:05:21,121 You know, like, the Side often tried to sort of pull her in, 974 01:05:21,241 --> 01:05:24,241 but she was really against them and feeling they were. 975 01:05:24,441 --> 01:05:27,281 She was always suspicious that people were, 976 01:05:27,401 --> 01:05:30,001 you know, using her - Yeah. 977 01:05:30,201 --> 01:05:32,641 She had been treated badly by certain people. 978 01:05:32,761 --> 01:05:35,801 And I think it does make it it makes things difficult. 979 01:05:35,921 --> 01:05:37,681 You know, she was suspicious. 980 01:05:37,881 --> 01:05:40,481 And I just do feel 981 01:05:40,601 --> 01:05:42,081 very responsible 982 01:05:42,201 --> 01:05:44,081 I mean, I didn't ask to be born, 983 01:05:44,201 --> 01:05:46,801 but I think I must have changed her life irreversibly. 984 01:05:47,001 --> 01:05:48,761 You were the best thing she could have had. 985 01:05:48,881 --> 01:05:50,521 - Do you think? - Yeah. 986 01:05:50,641 --> 01:05:53,841 - Was she happy? - She loved you so much. 987 01:05:53,961 --> 01:05:55,961 You were You were the bee's knees. 988 01:05:56,081 --> 01:05:58,081 You could do everything. 989 01:05:58,201 --> 01:06:00,121 You were so musical 990 01:06:00,241 --> 01:06:03,201 She'd drown you with jazz. 991 01:06:03,321 --> 01:06:06,641 Well, I'm named after Ella Fitzgerald, aren't I? Do you know, like, it's. 992 01:06:06,841 --> 01:06:09,601 She made me feel like the most special person. 993 01:06:09,721 --> 01:06:13,281 Oh, yeah, no Well, you were You were magic. 994 01:06:14,761 --> 01:06:17,641 To start off the play, I'm just going to state who this is. 995 01:06:17,841 --> 01:06:22,321 It is Ella Murtha But first, I'm going to sing Twinkle, Twinkle. 996 01:06:22,441 --> 01:06:24,841 That's my favourite song, 997 01:06:24,961 --> 01:06:28,241 and I was the star in the Christmas play, 998 01:06:28,361 --> 01:06:31,641 and I had to sing Twinkle, Twinkle. 999 01:06:31,761 --> 01:06:33,561 So, I hope you enjoy it. 1000 01:06:33,681 --> 01:06:36,521 And I am a very good singer, my mummy says. 1001 01:06:36,641 --> 01:06:38,001 And here it is 1002 01:06:38,201 --> 01:06:45,041 ? Twinkle, twinkle, little star 1003 01:06:45,161 --> 01:06:51,001 ? How I wonder what you are 1004 01:06:52,321 --> 01:06:58,401 ? Up above the world so high 1005 01:06:58,521 --> 01:07:04,681 ? Like a diamond in the sky 1006 01:07:04,881 --> 01:07:11,841 ? Twinkle, twinkle, little star 1007 01:07:12,041 --> 01:07:16,001 ? How I wonder. 1008 01:07:23,681 --> 01:07:26,801 She suddenly took you back up north 1009 01:07:27,001 --> 01:07:29,521 I think she was fed up of 1010 01:07:29,641 --> 01:07:31,561 it sounds silly - of being poor. 1011 01:07:31,681 --> 01:07:34,641 She used to tell me she'd go down to Camden Market at the end of the day 1012 01:07:34,841 --> 01:07:37,521 and pick up vegetables off the floor and things. 1013 01:07:38,921 --> 01:07:42,521 We went back to Elswick, and she was taking photos again. 1014 01:07:42,721 --> 01:07:45,441 She was doing a whole series It was Elswick Revisited. 1015 01:07:45,641 --> 01:07:48,041 The area had changed drastically 1016 01:07:48,161 --> 01:07:50,361 from the Youth Unemployment pictures 1017 01:07:50,561 --> 01:07:54,241 just, you know, a mere ten years before Well, not even ten years before. 1018 01:07:54,361 --> 01:07:56,881 And for a time, I think we were happy. 1019 01:07:57,961 --> 01:08:00,681 I mean, I don't know I don't know whether Tish was ever really happy. 1020 01:08:00,881 --> 01:08:05,321 Well, she was very driven as well, and photography was her life. 1021 01:08:05,521 --> 01:08:08,561 But I think every so often, someone would sort of 1022 01:08:08,681 --> 01:08:11,801 give her stuff or money or 1023 01:08:11,921 --> 01:08:13,921 things came her way. 1024 01:08:14,121 --> 01:08:16,121 She was a good friend, 1025 01:08:16,241 --> 01:08:19,961 and she was very good to me at times, you know, 1026 01:08:20,081 --> 01:08:24,681 'cause you go through miserable times, and she'd sort of 1027 01:08:24,881 --> 01:08:26,441 spark me up. 1028 01:08:26,561 --> 01:08:28,481 We had some really good times. 1029 01:08:34,441 --> 01:08:36,241 "Hello, David" 1030 01:08:36,361 --> 01:08:41,801 "I have a Northern Arts Award for £2,500 paid in installments," 1031 01:08:41,921 --> 01:08:47,401 "which is basically to explore racial tension in this area." 1032 01:08:47,521 --> 01:08:50,041 "It's a very tough one to crack, this." 1033 01:08:52,481 --> 01:08:55,561 "But I'm taking snaps again, which is good" 1034 01:09:20,441 --> 01:09:22,841 That's another good one I don't know. 1035 01:09:22,961 --> 01:09:26,841 Oh, this is interesting This boy here 1036 01:09:27,041 --> 01:09:29,001 who's got his back to us - Yeah. 1037 01:09:29,121 --> 01:09:32,921 he contacted me via Instagram, and he said, "Oh, I think I met your mam" 1038 01:09:33,041 --> 01:09:35,641 "in sort of, like, the late-'80s in Elswick Park," 1039 01:09:35,761 --> 01:09:39,761 "and she came over and she started asking us about our views" 1040 01:09:39,881 --> 01:09:41,681 "and why we felt like that." 1041 01:09:41,881 --> 01:09:45,481 And he said she was the first adult who had actually listened to him 1042 01:09:45,601 --> 01:09:48,281 and wanted to 1043 01:09:48,401 --> 01:09:50,321 know how he felt. 1044 01:09:50,441 --> 01:09:52,921 And he said that she talked to them 1045 01:09:53,041 --> 01:09:55,561 about removing the emotion from a subject 1046 01:09:55,681 --> 01:09:57,721 and looking at it from other point of views. 1047 01:09:57,841 --> 01:09:59,761 And he said it changed his life 1048 01:09:59,881 --> 01:10:02,521 and he took that into his life. 1049 01:10:04,641 --> 01:10:06,761 Was she taking pictures right at the end? 1050 01:10:06,881 --> 01:10:09,721 The last pictures she was taking will have been these. 1051 01:10:09,921 --> 01:10:12,481 - This is when she was in Middlesbrough. - Yeah. 1052 01:10:12,601 --> 01:10:14,801 So, she spent a lot of time at Linthorpe Cemetery. 1053 01:10:15,001 --> 01:10:18,641 And it's quite bizarre looking at all these pictures 1054 01:10:18,761 --> 01:10:21,121 considering what was just around the corner. 1055 01:10:21,241 --> 01:10:24,441 But she found it She was at peace It was very serene. 1056 01:10:24,561 --> 01:10:27,921 "Here is your angel in her summer finery" 1057 01:10:28,041 --> 01:10:30,961 I always like the fact that she wrote something on the back of pictures, 1058 01:10:31,161 --> 01:10:32,681 like a little postcard. 1059 01:10:32,801 --> 01:10:35,361 When I see her handwriting, like, I can imagine her voice. 1060 01:10:35,481 --> 01:10:37,681 - Yeah. - I feel like she's here, do you know? 1061 01:10:37,801 --> 01:10:41,201 - It's unusual to see colour, isn't it? - Yeah, but she 1062 01:10:41,321 --> 01:10:43,161 she had to do colour in the later days, though, 1063 01:10:43,241 --> 01:10:45,121 because after the credit crunch and stuff, 1064 01:10:45,241 --> 01:10:47,241 she couldn't get hold of any of her chemicals. 1065 01:10:47,361 --> 01:10:49,561 She couldn't get black and white film, either. 1066 01:10:49,681 --> 01:10:52,761 Always had trouble getting black and white film. 1067 01:10:56,041 --> 01:10:59,081 "Central Middlesbrough is a culturally diverse community" 1068 01:10:59,201 --> 01:11:02,081 "which has been portrayed - unfairly to my eyes" 1069 01:11:02,201 --> 01:11:06,481 "as an area of crime, prostitution and drugs." 1070 01:11:08,001 --> 01:11:12,481 "A community which is at ease with itself in, so many ways" 1071 01:11:12,601 --> 01:11:15,801 "is currently threatened by redevelopment plans," 1072 01:11:15,921 --> 01:11:20,561 "implementation of which is already seeing the beginnings of the demolition process." 1073 01:11:24,041 --> 01:11:26,761 "Originally built to house the workers from the local steel industry" 1074 01:11:26,881 --> 01:11:28,441 "in the late 19th century," 1075 01:11:28,641 --> 01:11:31,841 "as well as the descendants of these families," 1076 01:11:31,961 --> 01:11:36,361 "the community includes Asian, African, Arab, Chinese." 1077 01:11:36,481 --> 01:11:39,361 "Turkish and Eastern European populations." 1078 01:11:40,561 --> 01:11:44,321 "I would like to build a celebration of the community." 1079 01:11:45,361 --> 01:11:48,321 "Initial work has explored the local Mela" 1080 01:11:48,441 --> 01:11:50,281 "and the restored Albert Park," 1081 01:11:50,481 --> 01:11:53,601 "the transformation of the narrow backyards" 1082 01:11:53,721 --> 01:11:56,441 "into flowering gardens" 1083 01:11:56,561 --> 01:11:59,041 "young mothers" 1084 01:11:59,161 --> 01:12:02,921 "life on the streets and in some of the meeting points." 1085 01:12:04,241 --> 01:12:06,121 "My approach is informal," 1086 01:12:06,241 --> 01:12:08,441 "generating an understanding of what I'm doing" 1087 01:12:08,561 --> 01:12:12,681 "by giving copies of my photographs to the people with whom I'm working." 1088 01:12:14,001 --> 01:12:18,161 "I'm only seeking funding to support the cost of materials and equipment" 1089 01:12:18,281 --> 01:12:22,961 "that will both enable this process and produce exhibition prints," 1090 01:12:23,081 --> 01:12:27,161 "through which a full celebration of the community can be achieved." 1091 01:12:28,681 --> 01:12:32,121 "Childcare responsibilities have made the pursuit of my documentary practice" 1092 01:12:32,321 --> 01:12:35,201 "difficult over recent years." 1093 01:12:35,321 --> 01:12:38,281 "My work depends on investment of time," 1094 01:12:38,401 --> 01:12:40,521 "building of relationships of trust," 1095 01:12:40,641 --> 01:12:43,481 "that allow access to the different parts of the community," 1096 01:12:43,601 --> 01:12:45,841 "and to individual lives." 1097 01:12:47,201 --> 01:12:48,881 "Through the development of this project," 1098 01:12:49,081 --> 01:12:52,321 "I will hopefully generate renewed interest" 1099 01:12:52,441 --> 01:12:54,801 "in my work as a documentary photographer." 1100 01:12:56,001 --> 01:12:59,361 "Whatever happens to the community of Central Middlesbrough," 1101 01:12:59,481 --> 01:13:02,361 "the work will stand as a celebratory record" 1102 01:13:02,481 --> 01:13:04,441 "of a diverse community" 1103 01:13:04,561 --> 01:13:07,721 "which has found ways of living together in relative harmony." 1104 01:13:09,401 --> 01:13:12,281 "Through the validation of these different lives," 1105 01:13:12,401 --> 01:13:15,881 "this community, and possibly other marginalised communities," 1106 01:13:16,081 --> 01:13:20,321 "may feel empowered to challenge decision-making processes" 1107 01:13:20,441 --> 01:13:23,721 "that all too often ignore their views" 1108 01:13:35,601 --> 01:13:39,241 The impact was what you see there That was the impact. 1109 01:13:39,441 --> 01:13:41,841 That's the evidence, that's all you want. 1110 01:13:41,961 --> 01:13:43,961 It was good enough for us to live like that, 1111 01:13:44,081 --> 01:13:45,561 and that was the price worth paying. 1112 01:13:45,761 --> 01:13:48,041 Mind you, we haven't come very far. 1113 01:13:48,161 --> 01:13:50,441 We've been unfortunate to have the wrong people 1114 01:13:50,561 --> 01:13:52,121 to look after our interests. 1115 01:13:52,321 --> 01:13:54,881 They've failed again. 1116 01:13:55,001 --> 01:13:57,121 They always use money as a weapon. 1117 01:13:57,321 --> 01:14:00,161 But there's a lot of people who actually control 1118 01:14:00,281 --> 01:14:03,161 that particular funding. 1119 01:14:03,281 --> 01:14:05,841 Maybe send it in the wrong directions. 1120 01:14:28,161 --> 01:14:29,161 Yeah. 1121 01:14:36,761 --> 01:14:39,081 My mam's absolute favourite. 1122 01:14:40,201 --> 01:14:42,561 It isl That's what it is! It's you! 1123 01:14:43,001 --> 01:14:44,121 That's you yeah, 1124 01:14:49,521 --> 01:14:51,041 You look tight. 1125 01:15:05,201 --> 01:15:06,881 Are you pleased that she took them? 1126 01:15:11,121 --> 01:15:12,761 Was he? 1127 01:15:18,921 --> 01:15:20,281 Aw. 1128 01:15:20,881 --> 01:15:23,921 You just never stood a chance, did you? None of you It's. 1129 01:15:25,881 --> 01:15:27,961 I mean, no wonder my mam was angry. 1130 01:15:42,161 --> 01:15:44,281 How had older Tish changed 1131 01:15:44,401 --> 01:15:46,681 from the young Tish that you met in Elswick? 1132 01:15:46,881 --> 01:15:48,801 We missed each other for quite a few years. 1133 01:15:48,921 --> 01:15:52,881 Would it be 20 or 30, I don't know, since she came out? 1134 01:15:53,001 --> 01:15:55,161 Probably the last time was when you were a little one 1135 01:15:55,281 --> 01:15:57,041 - and she came out to see us. - Yeah. 1136 01:15:57,241 --> 01:16:00,281 In terms of, like, her personality, had she changed? 1137 01:16:01,561 --> 01:16:03,281 Not really She was. 1138 01:16:03,401 --> 01:16:06,681 Maybe she hadn't got the feistiness that she had when she was younger. 1139 01:16:06,881 --> 01:16:09,241 She had that edge when she was young, and it was. 1140 01:16:09,361 --> 01:16:11,481 She had, like, a fire in her belly, didn't she? 1141 01:16:11,641 --> 01:16:13,961 I think it had been extinguished, I think, 1142 01:16:14,161 --> 01:16:17,441 by life and just surviving - Yes. 1143 01:16:19,481 --> 01:16:22,441 After Middlesbrough, she moved to Allenheads, 1144 01:16:22,641 --> 01:16:25,281 and then from there she was close to me in Teesside. 1145 01:16:25,401 --> 01:16:29,441 But then, the camera, there was something wrong with it 1146 01:16:29,561 --> 01:16:33,081 and it was fogging up There was something wrong with the back. 1147 01:16:33,201 --> 01:16:35,321 Well, it had had a life 1148 01:16:35,441 --> 01:16:38,281 - I mean, yeah. - I mean, extraordinary. 1149 01:16:38,481 --> 01:16:41,441 She battered the hell out of it for God-only-knows how long. 1150 01:16:41,561 --> 01:16:44,361 - She got her money's worth out of it. - Oh, she certainly did. 1151 01:16:44,481 --> 01:16:47,681 They were great cameras, though I mean, she got that because of Don McCullin 1152 01:16:47,881 --> 01:16:52,761 Don McCullin used to cart them into battlefields, and all kinds of things. 1153 01:16:58,121 --> 01:17:00,001 "Happy Christmas, Eileen and Ali." 1154 01:17:00,121 --> 01:17:03,321 "Hope 2010 is a great year for you all." 1155 01:17:04,201 --> 01:17:06,681 "Thought you might like a copy of Photoworks." 1156 01:17:06,801 --> 01:17:10,041 "The article by David Mellor is nauseating claptrap," 1157 01:17:10,681 --> 01:17:14,361 "but I like what the editor, Gordon, did with my photographs." 1158 01:17:14,561 --> 01:17:16,841 "Thank you for the shoes." 1159 01:17:16,961 --> 01:17:18,721 "They should fit okay." 1160 01:17:18,841 --> 01:17:22,121 "My situation at the moment is a bit rough." 1161 01:17:22,241 --> 01:17:24,921 "One week I eat, next week I don't." 1162 01:17:26,321 --> 01:17:30,641 "I am moving Only four streets away, but it overlooks the park." 1163 01:17:30,761 --> 01:17:34,681 "Not by any means perfect, but it'll do until the boat comes in." 1164 01:17:36,161 --> 01:17:38,001 "See you anon." 1165 01:17:38,121 --> 01:17:39,961 "Love, Tish" 1166 01:17:42,721 --> 01:17:44,801 This new welfare state 1167 01:17:46,001 --> 01:17:48,681 must encourage work, not dependency. 1168 01:17:50,081 --> 01:17:54,281 We are giving young people and the long-term unemployed the opportunity. 1169 01:17:54,401 --> 01:17:58,881 A £35-billion investment programme. 1170 01:17:59,001 --> 01:18:01,201 We are adding today the option of self-employment 1171 01:18:01,321 --> 01:18:03,641 as part of the New Deal. 1172 01:18:03,761 --> 01:18:06,401 But I think it right and fair 1173 01:18:06,521 --> 01:18:09,641 that they have to take one of the options on offer. 1174 01:18:10,961 --> 01:18:14,681 We want single mothers with school-aged children 1175 01:18:14,801 --> 01:18:16,921 at least to visit a Job Centre, 1176 01:18:17,041 --> 01:18:19,721 not just stay at home, waiting for the benefit cheque every week 1177 01:18:19,841 --> 01:18:21,841 until the children are 16. 1178 01:18:24,001 --> 01:18:26,641 I remember the dole were giving her a hard time at one point. 1179 01:18:26,761 --> 01:18:28,841 They wanted her to work in factory or something, 1180 01:18:28,961 --> 01:18:30,561 and she just wasn't having it. 1181 01:18:30,681 --> 01:18:34,321 And I was sort of supporting her and saying, "No, stand up for yourself". 1182 01:18:34,441 --> 01:18:36,721 It was the time Do you remember New Deal? 1183 01:18:36,801 --> 01:18:38,401 Oh, God, yeah - All of that. 1184 01:18:38,481 --> 01:18:40,361 She did actually get sent. 1185 01:18:40,481 --> 01:18:43,081 - She was sent to a meat-processing place. - Yeah. 1186 01:18:43,201 --> 01:18:45,337 But she was so tired, 'cause they were doing night shifts. 1187 01:18:45,361 --> 01:18:47,241 They used to come pick her up in this bus thing. 1188 01:18:47,321 --> 01:18:48,841 And she was hallucinating. 1189 01:18:49,041 --> 01:18:52,481 She was just so tired And the smell 'Cause, I mean, she was a vegetarian 1190 01:18:52,601 --> 01:18:54,481 - I know. - do you know? Like, it was. 1191 01:18:54,681 --> 01:18:56,601 She had so much talent, 1192 01:18:56,721 --> 01:18:59,081 and she just couldn't make a living from photography. 1193 01:18:59,281 --> 01:19:01,761 No - She just couldn't do it. 1194 01:19:07,121 --> 01:19:11,201 "Patricia Anne Murtha - CV" 1195 01:19:11,321 --> 01:19:15,481 "I am an honest, reliable and trustworthy person" 1196 01:19:15,601 --> 01:19:18,481 "with the ability to work on own initiatives" 1197 01:19:18,601 --> 01:19:21,441 "or as an effective team member." 1198 01:19:21,561 --> 01:19:23,681 "Having previously completed college training" 1199 01:19:23,801 --> 01:19:26,201 "in documentary photography," 1200 01:19:26,321 --> 01:19:30,321 "I am now seeking a position where I am able to fully utilise" 1201 01:19:30,401 --> 01:19:32,841 "all of my skills and knowledge" 1202 01:19:34,521 --> 01:19:37,721 "thriving on new challenges and responsibility." 1203 01:19:38,801 --> 01:19:41,601 "I am versatile and adaptable," 1204 01:19:41,721 --> 01:19:46,041 "and can successfully transfer my existing skills and knowledge" 1205 01:19:46,161 --> 01:19:48,601 "to new situations." 1206 01:19:50,841 --> 01:19:53,041 "Given the opportunity." 1207 01:19:54,081 --> 01:19:58,601 "I am confident that I will prove to be an asset to any future employer." 1208 01:20:00,921 --> 01:20:03,081 "During my spare time," 1209 01:20:03,201 --> 01:20:05,281 "I enjoy walking to keep fit." 1210 01:20:06,521 --> 01:20:10,681 "To relax, I listen to music and read a variety of books." 1211 01:20:13,401 --> 01:20:16,801 "I like gardening, and growing my own fruit and veg." 1212 01:20:19,521 --> 01:20:21,721 "I'm also a keen photographer" 1213 01:20:24,081 --> 01:20:26,361 "and develop my own photos" 1214 01:20:31,801 --> 01:20:34,481 "January the 14th, 2013." 1215 01:20:34,601 --> 01:20:37,801 "Got an e-mail number, as requested by the Job Centre. 1216 01:20:37,881 --> 01:20:41,681 "Made enquiries at Aldi Chichester, for position as store assistant. 1217 01:20:41,761 --> 01:20:45,921 "Have no retail experience, so response not very positive. 1218 01:20:46,041 --> 01:20:47,561 "January the 22nd. 1219 01:20:47,681 --> 01:20:50,361 "Sent CV and letter to the Punjab Kitchen Ltd, 1220 01:20:50,441 --> 01:20:52,801 "Eldon Street, South Shields" 1221 01:20:52,921 --> 01:20:55,081 "Spoke to Mandy about waiting staff job." 1222 01:20:55,201 --> 01:20:59,001 "February the 8th Checked the Universal Jobs site various times." 1223 01:20:59,121 --> 01:21:02,441 "February 13th Also wrote to BB's Coffee Shop." 1224 01:21:02,561 --> 01:21:05,881 "February 14th Sent CV to Sodexo." 1225 01:21:06,001 --> 01:21:11,521 "February 16th Visited various outlets at the Gateshead retail centre" 1226 01:21:11,641 --> 01:21:14,521 "to make enquiries about vacancies" 1227 01:21:37,881 --> 01:21:40,641 She was living, like, hand-to-mouth. 1228 01:21:40,761 --> 01:21:43,361 Like, I helped her where I could, but I was on maternity leave. 1229 01:21:43,481 --> 01:21:47,001 - Of course you were. - She spent her final few weeks 1230 01:21:47,121 --> 01:21:50,041 traipsing around, trying to get jobs in a kitchen. 1231 01:21:50,241 --> 01:21:52,721 She was terrified to turn the heating on. 1232 01:21:52,841 --> 01:21:54,641 And, do you know, the worst thing of all, 1233 01:21:54,761 --> 01:21:56,441 like, it was, did she heat or did she eat? 1234 01:21:56,521 --> 01:21:58,561 Yes, yeah - And when she died, 1235 01:21:58,681 --> 01:22:00,641 I ended up getting a cheque for £100, 1236 01:22:00,841 --> 01:22:03,921 because she'd been religiously putting this £20 on. 1237 01:22:04,041 --> 01:22:07,161 - Yeah, yeah. - But terrified to have the heating on. 1238 01:22:07,281 --> 01:22:08,681 And she was in credit. 1239 01:22:08,801 --> 01:22:11,081 Do you know, she could have had the heating on, 1240 01:22:11,201 --> 01:22:14,161 but she felt so worthless 1241 01:22:14,281 --> 01:22:17,681 and like she didn't deserve to have a warm house. 1242 01:22:17,801 --> 01:22:19,641 And it's just, like - Oh, Ella. 1243 01:22:19,761 --> 01:22:23,041 But, do you know, when she was in that coma, right? 1244 01:22:23,161 --> 01:22:26,201 I remember - I rang them 1245 01:22:26,321 --> 01:22:28,921 because - Just take a breath. 1246 01:22:34,561 --> 01:22:38,361 When I should have been looking after her and worried about her. 1247 01:22:39,681 --> 01:22:42,401 I was so stressed out that she was going to get sanctioned 1248 01:22:42,521 --> 01:22:44,977 while she was in the hospital, and she was going to lose her house. 1249 01:22:45,001 --> 01:22:46,721 When she was in a coma - Yeah. 1250 01:22:46,841 --> 01:22:49,841 So, I rang them, 'cause I couldn't get any sense out of her 1251 01:22:49,961 --> 01:22:52,681 I said, "Did you sign on on Friday?" and she just. 1252 01:22:52,881 --> 01:22:56,121 She She just wasn't making any sense at all. 1253 01:22:56,321 --> 01:23:00,321 Which I now know is, do you know, what was going on in her brain. 1254 01:23:00,441 --> 01:23:03,321 And so, I rang them and I said, "Look, my mam", 1255 01:23:03,441 --> 01:23:07,121 "she's had a brain haemorrhage, she's in a coma" 1256 01:23:07,241 --> 01:23:09,481 "I don't know whether she came and signed on on Friday," 1257 01:23:09,601 --> 01:23:11,801 "but obviously please don't sanction her." 1258 01:23:11,921 --> 01:23:13,921 And they just refused to talk to me. 1259 01:23:14,041 --> 01:23:16,361 - They refused to tell me if she'd been. - Really? 1260 01:23:16,401 --> 01:23:19,601 They said, "It's against data protection We cannot discuss that with you". 1261 01:23:19,801 --> 01:23:24,041 The way the DWP and this government, 1262 01:23:24,161 --> 01:23:26,121 like, the way they treat people. 1263 01:23:26,241 --> 01:23:28,921 - Oh, it's punishing and punitive. - It's do you know. 1264 01:23:29,121 --> 01:23:31,961 She was just a number We're all just numbers to them. 1265 01:23:32,081 --> 01:23:33,961 But, do you know, like. 1266 01:23:34,081 --> 01:23:36,721 She was so special She was so talented. 1267 01:23:36,841 --> 01:23:38,481 She was - and they didn't care. 1268 01:23:40,321 --> 01:23:44,081 I just like to come here because it feels like going full circle. 1269 01:23:44,201 --> 01:23:46,881 - Do you know, she was born here. - Yeah, she was. 1270 01:23:47,001 --> 01:23:50,521 Do you know, like, her happy childhood memories are here. 1271 01:23:50,641 --> 01:23:54,161 - We had happy times here on this bench. - This bench, yeah. 1272 01:23:54,361 --> 01:23:57,161 - Oh, yeah, it had to be this one. - It had to be this one. 1273 01:24:13,481 --> 01:24:16,041 Tish's work, I remembered when I first looked at it, 1274 01:24:16,161 --> 01:24:18,681 remembered the kind of thrill of what photography was 1275 01:24:18,801 --> 01:24:21,401 and what it could do 1276 01:24:21,521 --> 01:24:25,481 They clearly weren't those sort of explorer pictures. 1277 01:24:25,681 --> 01:24:28,961 You know, you feel when someone's exploring a culture, 1278 01:24:29,081 --> 01:24:31,361 when someone's exploring working-class culture, 1279 01:24:31,481 --> 01:24:32,961 and they've just stepped in, 1280 01:24:33,081 --> 01:24:36,041 and they're going to step out, back to wherever, later on. 1281 01:24:36,161 --> 01:24:38,321 Just parachute in - Parachute back out. 1282 01:24:38,441 --> 01:24:40,361 And they've got their pictures of people, 1283 01:24:40,481 --> 01:24:42,337 kids looking slightly grubby, and stuff like this. 1284 01:24:42,361 --> 01:24:43,721 This felt like my childhood. 1285 01:24:43,921 --> 01:24:47,081 And it became clear when I met your mum, when I learned more about the work 1286 01:24:47,201 --> 01:24:50,841 and talked to her more about the work, that it was because that was her, 1287 01:24:50,961 --> 01:24:53,641 and she had made something which was so clear 1288 01:24:53,761 --> 01:24:56,121 and so honest and so raw. 1289 01:24:57,641 --> 01:25:00,041 She was allowed to be invisible 1290 01:25:00,241 --> 01:25:02,241 in a way that someone from the outside wouldn't be, 1291 01:25:02,281 --> 01:25:04,241 'cause that was her life. 1292 01:25:04,361 --> 01:25:06,761 Now your mum's work is central 1293 01:25:06,881 --> 01:25:09,521 to people's thinking about 1294 01:25:09,641 --> 01:25:11,281 documentary photography from that period. 1295 01:25:11,441 --> 01:25:14,841 It's not peripheral any more, and that's that's something, isn't it? 1296 01:25:15,961 --> 01:25:19,401 So, you know, you've been helping me with Clarrie and the Tate. 1297 01:25:19,601 --> 01:25:22,121 - Do you know how you set up your darkroom? - Yes 1298 01:25:22,241 --> 01:25:24,481 I was going to ask whether you would like to print them. 1299 01:25:24,601 --> 01:25:25,961 Oh, God, I'd love to 1300 01:25:26,161 --> 01:25:28,401 I would love you to print them for the Tate Collection. 1301 01:25:28,521 --> 01:25:29,961 That's a really nice thing. 1302 01:25:30,081 --> 01:25:32,761 Um, yeah God, yeah. 1303 01:26:04,721 --> 01:26:08,081 To actually say that Tate Britain have acquired my mam's work 1304 01:26:08,201 --> 01:26:09,801 for their permanent collection, 1305 01:26:09,921 --> 01:26:12,241 I mean, the whole thought of that is just 1306 01:26:13,721 --> 01:26:16,121 it's quite overwhelming really. 1307 01:26:17,761 --> 01:26:20,841 I think she'd have loved to have seen her work on the wall 1308 01:26:20,961 --> 01:26:23,601 and, do you know, be recognised 1309 01:26:23,721 --> 01:26:26,481 for just how talented she was. 1310 01:26:27,641 --> 01:26:29,121 A lot of people say to me, like, 1311 01:26:29,241 --> 01:26:33,481 "That could have been me, that could have been my brother, that could have been us." 1312 01:26:33,601 --> 01:26:37,281 Pictures of real people, real stories, real lives. 1313 01:26:37,401 --> 01:26:40,321 And for it to be recognised because, 1314 01:26:40,441 --> 01:26:43,201 do you know, my mam's work was brilliant. 1315 01:26:43,321 --> 01:26:45,121 And I mean, I'm biased, 1316 01:26:45,241 --> 01:26:49,601 but for other people to recognise that, and for Tate to recognise that 1317 01:26:50,841 --> 01:26:53,121 what more could you want? 1318 01:26:58,001 --> 01:27:02,841 ? Diedi Fiori 1319 01:27:02,961 --> 01:27:09,041 ? Agli altar 1320 01:27:10,881 --> 01:27:16,321 ? Nell'ora del dolore 1321 01:27:22,241 --> 01:27:29,161 ? Perché me ne rimuneri 1322 01:27:39,801 --> 01:27:44,921 ? Diedi I gioielli 1323 01:27:45,041 --> 01:27:50,161 ? Della Madonna al man to 1324 01:27:50,281 --> 01:27:55,081 ? E diedi il canto 1325 01:27:55,201 --> 01:27:57,721 ? Agli astri, al ciel 1326 01:27:57,841 --> 01:28:03,161 ? Che ne ride an più belli 1327 01:28:03,281 --> 01:28:08,201 ? Nell'ora del dolor 1328 01:28:08,321 --> 01:28:12,921 ? Perché 1329 01:28:32,441 --> 01:28:40,441 ? Perché me ne rimuneri 104772

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.