All language subtitles for The.Thick.Of.It.S04e06.1080p.Web.H264-Poppycock_track3_[eng]

Peter Mannion has
been picking on a man
with a history of depression.

-Tickle's dead.
-What?

Tickle's dead.

I need to have the email.

I'll do it.

-Are you for
the chop Mrs, Murray?
-(LAUGHING) Very funny.

Quiet Batpeople on
every fucking paper!

What are you
doing at my computer?

I am bringing down Mannion
by leaking an email.

Mr Tickle's medical records
were illegally acquired.

I have decided to
stand down as leader.

The Guardianhave received
an email from Fergus

with all of our comments
about Mr Tickle underneath.

You were
supposed to redact it,
send the top email,

not the whole
fucking exchange!

If a government can't leak,
do you know what happens?

Dark shit builds up.

-What the fuck is going on?
-All right, Fergus!

There's going
to be an inquiry.

And then it bursts!

GOOLDING: This is an inquiry
into the death of
Mr Douglas Tickel.

And the practice and culture
of the dissemination

of confidential information
between political parties
and the public media.

-Mr Weir.
-Thank you, Lord Goolding.

Erm, our first
witness today is, er,
is Mr Stewart Pearson.

No, that's, er, it's fine.

Yeah. I, Stewart Pearson,
do sincerely
declare and affirm

that the evidence
that I shall give
will be the truth,

the whole truth and,
and nothing but the truth.

On page 235 of your,
your witness statement,

you describe yourself as the,
the human
router in government.

Can you explain
what you meant by that?

Erm, I'm a, a router,

in the sense that I control
the governmental informational

ingestion and
egestion process.

Mr Pearson, just to clarify,

your job is to make sure
that the public perception

of your government's programme
is a positive one,
is that fair?

It's not about perception,
yeah?

I believe in government
as a transceiver, mmm?

WEIR: A transceiver?

Yeah, it's really important,
yeah, sure, to give out
a strong signal but you...

To be effective,
you've got to
listen for an echo.

Could you possibly speak
in plain English?

I'm sorry, I, I...
I thought, I thought I was.

So what is clear is that
you are
an important man, Mr Pearson.

I'm just a lad from Leeds
with a lust for life, yeah?
Erm,

look,
there's an African proverb
that's stuck with me, yeah?

"If you think you're too small
to make a difference,

"you've never spent a night
with a mosquito."

So part of your job

is to make sure
that the government's
message gets across clearly?

-Is that right?
-That's correct.

And despite
the sarcasm marinating
that question,

I'm very successful
in that endeavour.

No, there was no sarcasm
intended at all, Mr Pearson.

Sorry, I must have
misread your face.

Erm, does your job
intrude on your home life?

No. No, when I, when I close
the front door, I'm...

I'm no longer Stewart Pearson.

When you...

I mean,
I mean, when I close it
from the, from the inside.

You know, right.
When I close it
from the outside, then,

then I very much
am Stewart Pearson.

So who are you at home?

Er, I'm a husband,
I'm a, pardon me, a lover,

I'm a carpenter, I'm a cook,
I'm a flautist.

-A...
-A flautist.

-Right.
-You know, I play the flute.

And I dabble on
the Irish bodhran.

Erm, and would you like to
express any remorse for
Mr Tickel's death?

What would you like to say
to his family?

Er, I would like to offer them
maximum respect, you know?

And maximum remorse.

And maximum
assurance that Mr Tickel
did not die in vain.

We're here. You know?

How can we make the government
and the media

inclusive without
being intrusive? Yeah?

And if we can answer that,

at least we can make sure
that there are no
more Mr Tickels.

I mean that not in
the sense of, you know, wiping
out the Tickel family name,

I mean it in the sense that
nothing like this will
ever happen again.

-Hello, Mr Pearson.
-Hi.

Tab 28 in your
bundle there, page 263.

A paper that you presented
in 2006, "The Iconography
of Consensus."

Would you care to summarise
the argument
you present there?

Sure, yeah, the main thing...

Bearing in mind
Lord Goolding's desire
for plainness and clarity.

Right. Okay.

I hypothesise that...

Sorry.

I say that
the design structure

for a parliamentary democracy
should be that of
the Pompidou Centre.

Morally and
structurally explicit
and open, a porous membrane.

Maybe just
a little bit plainer,
Mr Pearson?

People should know, er,
what politicians are doing.

Brilliant.

Thanks.

Government should be porous?

-Yes.
-But not leaking?

Come on.
If, if someone is determined
to leak information,

there's nothing that anyone
can do about that.

So as Director
of Communications,

you are unable to prevent
sensitive material

being
communicated to journalists?

If someone chokes on
a packet of crisps,

do you issue an arrest warrant
for Gary Lineker?

Well, is it fair to say that
you have,
in fact, changed nothing

and government communications
carries on exactly
as they did before,

by leaks and whispers?

No,
it is not fair to say that.

In fact,
because you disapprove
and condemn these practices,

are they not more covert
and more hidden and more
secret than ever before?

I think that is,
is also
an unreasonable assertion.

In spite of your desire to
create a political
Pompidou Centre, Mr Pearson,

haven't you
created the opposite,
Centre Point?

I mean, everybody sees it
looming over them

but nobody has
the faintest idea
what happens in there.

I think there's
some kind of club
on the top floor.

So, Mr Pearson,
have you identified
the source of the leak...

-No. No.
-...of Mr Tickel's records?

Have you ever leaked yourself?

No. No,
I was over that pre-Britpop.

Do you have any
idea where the leak
might have come from?

Well, you know, if this was
CSI: MiamiI guess we'd be
looking for the person

who'd have most to gain
from the leak
being made public.

Well, despite your shirt,

-this isn't CSI: Miami.
-(GALLERY CHUCKLING)

Who do you think would
benefit most from the leak?

Well, I guess I'd be sending
David Caruso

knocking on the door
of Mr Malcolm Tucker.

GOOLDING: Can I ask you,
how would you
describe yourself?

Er, I'm a, a media strategist.

So you would be
Stewart Pearson's
opposite number?

Well, I'd be Stewart Pearson's
opposite in every
possible way, I think.

(GALLERY CHUCKLES)

You have a lot of
control and power
over your party, don't you?

(LAUGHS)

I wish, yes.
Er, no. I think that
that's been overstated.

So this reputation you have
as an enforcer,

that's completely
misrepresenting you, is it?

It's baloney.

Politicians who
have to do things
that they don't want to do,

such as resign,

because they've been caught
with their
fingers in the till,

or, you know, with their
knickers up a flagpole
or whatever, they sometimes...

It's very convenient for them
to have a bogeyman.

"Malcolm made me do it."
Well,
I didn't make them do it.

These are people who just find
themselves stuck in
a room with one exit

and I simply
show them the door.

I've highlighted some quotes.
The Guardian:

"Malcolm Tucker has
the physical demeanour

"and the political instincts
of a velociraptor."

Yes,
The Guardian,the newspaper
that hates newspapers.

-SUREKA: Telegraph.
-The Telegr-arse.

"Tucker's writ runs through
the lifeblood of Westminster

"like raw alcohol,
at once
cleansing and corroding."

The Times:
"If you make eye contact
with Malcolm Tucker,

"you have spilled his pint."

The Spectator:
"Iago with a BlackBerry."

I mean, you're
saying these quotes are,
what, misguided?

The Spectator!

Erm, no, I'm saying that you
are not... You're taking
these out of context.

You're not
contextualising these.

If you were to put them
into a perspective,

if you were to place them
into the landscape,

you would see that
there might be a lot
of axes being ground here.

I don't see
the difference between
what you have just done

and a leak, by the way.

Well, the difference is that
what I've just read out

-was not obtained illegally.
-How do you know that?

You don't know
what confidences
have been breached

in order to form
these opinions,
for that is what they are.

So you accept leaking as
part and parcel of
the political media machinery?

Yes, I mean,
if you didn't have leaking,

the newspapers
would just be full
of long-lens bikini shots

and adverts for sheds

and offers to buy three pairs
of trousers for a tenner,
etcetera.

It's just...
It's the way it is.
Big deal, no one dies.

One person did die, Mr Tucker.

Would you tell
us how it works?

You know, you do me a favour,
I do you a favour, yeah?

And what might you
expect in return?

-Anything.
-SUREKA: What?

Well, a Kit Kat,
you might get...
I've had a Kit Kat.

I've had a, a big meal.

Well,
I mean, could you give us
an example of what you mean?

Um... Well, yes.

I... This is the Daily Mirror,

and I could get drummed out of
the Magic Circle
for showing you this.

Anyway,
this is the Daily Mirror

about the Quiet
Batpeople policy
of Mrs Nicola Murray.

I was there that day.
You can't see me because
I've been cropped out here,

but this information here,
I made sure that those notes
were in that place,

that they were available,
and that the picture editor
knew where to find them.

Sorry, I'm just trying to,
trying to get this clear.

Was Mrs Murray not the subject
of huge derision
as a result of this?

No, she was a subject
of huge derision before this.

(GALLERY LAUGHING)

-WEIR: So, but you were...
-But it was...

...you were
trying to undermine
the leader of your party?

-I was...
-Would you,
would you say you were

a loyal man, Mr Tucker?

I'm loyal, yes.
I'm loyal to my party.

And I feel that
Mrs Murray's policies
were turning the party into...

I don't know if you've seen
those calendars

that have got pictures of dogs
that are dressed up,

and they've got little dresses
and hats on?

She was turning
my party into that,
she was humiliating my party,

so I thought it was absolutely
vital to focus the public's
attention onto that.

And yet you maintain
that you had great,
I don't know, what,

-respect for Mrs
Murray as a person.
-MALCOLM: Yeah.

Yes, she was a great
laugh occasionally.
Great dancer.

She's got terrific hair.

She did a good job at DoSAC.

A much better job
than her successor,
who, let's not forget

was playing on a slide
when news of Mr Tickle's...

-WEIR: Yeah. Thank you.
-...death came out.

Mr Tucker, we're well-versed
in the events
surrounding the...

-Yeah.
-The death of Mr Tickel.

So tell me, the PFI email
that led to the,

to the resignation of
Nicola Murray, did you,
did you engineer that?

-No. No.
-WEIR: Mr Tucker?

No, I didn't.

And the leaking
of Mr Tickel's health records?

I mean, do I detect
your hand in that,
for instance?

No, no, no, no.
Look, politics is a war,

and politicians,
sometimes they lose
ideological limbs, right?

They get media shrapnel
right in the face.

Sometimes they get a bullet
right in the brain.

Civilians, no. There is no way

that I would ever attack
a civilian, a real person,

and especially not somebody
with a history
of mental illness.

Because that sort of thing
makes me queasy.

So you're an ethical leaker,
if you will?

I use leaking
to show up corruption,

to show up hypocrisy,
to show up idiocy.

And also the fourth horseman
of the political apocalypse,
duplicity.

For instance, Fergus Williams,

-he's coming up next, right?
-WEIR: Mmm-hmm.

This is a guy, he's a member
of the junior party in
this coalition, right?

This guy has already opened
a private
channel to Dan Miller,

the Leader of the Opposition.

In order to talk about
possibly setting up
a coalition with him,

because he knows very well
that this coalition government

that he is lumbered with

is being torn to pieces
like a bread
stick at a picnic.

Mr Tucker, you have just
used this inquiry to commit
a leak in front of us.

I have not committed a leak.

Everybody in Westminster
knows that these talks have
taken place, everyone.

You're supposed to be
investigating this,

you're supposed to be
discovering this stuff,

now, you cannot not know
what I or anyone
else tell you, right?

You can't not know that.
You cannot not know
what you now know.

Mr Tucker, are you familiar
with the rules of
association football?

Well,
I understand that if you're
going to have an affair,

you'd better take precautions,
like getting
a superinjunction.

I ask you because this is me
giving you a yellow card.

You are not to
use this inquiry
to score political points.

Sorry, I'm, I apologise.

Did you see Mr
Malcolm Tucker's
evidence earlier?

Er, yeah, I saw it out of the,
out of the corner of my eye.

Would you like me to read
what he said about you?

Er, no, that's fine,
that was the bit that I saw.

Embarrassing, I imagine?

Uh, no, not at all.
It was almost flattering,
yeah,

to get Tuckered.

It's a, it's a rite of passage
in, in, in, in politics.
Happens to all of us.

It's, you know, it's like
when you're in a Russian jail,

you get your face tattooed.

Mr Tucker mentioned meetings
between you and the Leader
of the Opposition.

Did these take place?

They did, yes.
Er, myself and Adam
were part of a team

who had very general,
noncommittal discussions with,

amongst others, Mr Miller.

And you discussed a potential
future
coalition with his party

and the removal of your own
party leader, is that correct?

Sorry, could I possibly answer
that question with
another question?

I mean, not that question
I'm just asking,
but a further question.

Go on.

You do realise
that you're being
spun here, you do see that?

-Spun?
-Because, you know,

Malcolm Tucker's
not your common
or garden spin doctor, right?

No, he's the, he's the
chief medical officer of spin.
He is Spinoza, you see?

So he, he didn't come here
in order to
answer your questions,

he came here in
order to get you
to then ask his questions.

You're right. Mr Williams,

I don't want you
to answer a question
with another question,

I want you to answer it
with an answer.

I mean, he's
conducting you like, erm,

-Goldie.
-Did you talk to Mr Miller

about removing
your party leader?

Sorry, are you getting
Tucker's questions

sort of beamed
straight into your brain?

GOOLDING: Mr Williams.

Finally, erm, on the subject
of frustration,

would you say it's difficult
to steer policy ideas
through your department?

(LAUGHS NERVOUSLY)

Er, yes,
there are, er, blockages.

There is one person
in particular and,

well, you know,
I don't want to identify her,

or him, if she was a man,
but this
particular person, er,

is rather inept

and has hampered
a lot of our initiatives.

And she,
or her, or him, is, erm,

very difficult to remove.

And so she's a, he is a,
they are a stubborn blockage,

shall we say, like, you know,
when you get hair

and soap in a,
in a, in a plughole
with skin flakes.

Thank you.
Thank you, Mr Williams.
That's fine.

Sorry, can I just say...

GOOLDING: We are very
pressed for time, I'm afraid.

Yeah, but I really didn't want
the last thing that I said...

-GOOLDING: I'm sorry.
-...to be skin flakes.

GOOLDING: Thank you.

WEIR: When did you first
become aware of Mr Tickel?

When he became
the only key worker

to refuse our offer
of alternative accommodation.

Then he sort of
dropped off my radar.

The next thing I
knew he was sewing
badges on his tent

and shouting abuse
through a loudhailer.

Did you ever feel yourself
to be culpable in any way

for his, for his homelessness?

Look, he was
homeless only in the sense
that he had no home.

(GALLERY CHUCKLES)

No, no, a, a,
a Housing Association flat was
found, which he, he declined.

The policy didn't
make him homeless.

The policy of
selling off the block
of flats where he lived.

He made a positive decision
to be homeless.

It's the difference between
being punched in the face

and punching
yourself in the face.

(GALLERY CHUCKLES)

Erm...
Well, and why do you think,
to use your phrase,

he, er, he punched
himself in the face?

Why? Well,
because he was mentally...
(STAMMERING)

Because he, he, he had,
er, mental issues.

The email leaked
to The Guardian,

which you'll find
on pages 276 to 277
in the evidence,

one of your advisers
describes Mr Tickel as, er,

"fucking
Florence Shiteingale."

Do you not feel
that's a little callous?

This is,
this is rough-and-tumble
office banter,

schoolboy showers stuff
and schoolgirl showers.
Not that...

I mean, not literally, but...

Are you familiar
with the phrase
"data smuggling"?

-Data what?
-Passing on data
from a closed system

to an unauthorised source
in exchange for money.

Oh, yes, right.
Well,
it seems everyone's at it.

SUREKA:
Are you at it, Mr Mannion?

(SCOFFS) No, I'm, I'm,
I'm not very good
with technology.

The Paper Mate pen is
still cutting edge technology
as far as I'm concerned.

Writes upside-down, you know.

You've told the enquiry that
you didn't feel at all guilty

over Mr Tickel's death.

Well, I, I felt bad.
But, but not guilty.

I didn't kill him.
I, I've never killed anyone.

Well, no,
I mean, noted, but I mean,

do you think you could have
made a difference

if you had been
contactable that day?

Why?
He wasn't trying to call me.

I mean,
I'm not the Samaritans.

In fact, apparently, tonally,
I, I have a very
depressing voice.

Mr Mannion, do you know
Mr Alastair Leyton, a senior
executive at The Times?

-Yes.
-Did you ring Mr Leyton

on the 25th of April
to tell him that Mr Tickel's
medical records

had been unlawfully obtained

and that this
might form the basis
of an explosive news story?

Did I ring him on
that day, do you mean?
Well, I can't remember.

Well, did you ring him
on any day telling him?

Look, I came into politics
to make a difference,

to, to dare,
to, to get things done,

not to leak
things or, or, or spin

or, or blag or, or smuggle,

but to serve,
with honest, hard work,
to do.

And did you do something?
Did you contact your
friend at The Times?

No, I, I, I didn't do that.

Perhaps we could start
by just giving us
an idea of what a,

you know,
what a special adviser does?

Erm, er...

Well, technically, essentially
we just advise a minister.

Erm, sort of media strategies,
political strategies,

-that sort of thing.
-But you're not a permanent...

You're not permanent members
of the civil service?

Er, no, they're like the, er,
the worker ants.

We're more like...
Er, well,
not the queens, that would be

er, Peter Mannion and, to
a lesser extent,
Fergus Williams.

We're more like
the soldier ants
that defend the queens.

Would you like
to add anything,
Mr Kenyon?

Yes, I'm not sure that
the ant analogy helps at all.

Mr Smith, how would you
characterise your
relationship with Mr Kenyon?

Well, I think when you get two
silverbacks like
Adam and I in a room,

there's always going to be
a certain amount
of chest-beating,

but, erm,
there's a mutual respect.

Would you agree, Mr Kenyon?

Yes.

What about data smuggling?
Is that something that
you were aware of?

Yeah,
I mean, of course I was aware
of it. I think we all were.

-Yeah. That it goes on.
-Yeah. Certainly.

I would say, I would say
it was, it was endemic.
It happens every time.

-Endemic?
-EMMA: Yeah. It's commonplace.

Hospitals, anywhere
with public information,
GPs, passport offices,

you know,
you name it, they're...

They've all been known
to slip information for money.

Do, do any of you know
of specific individuals who
will offer this,

this information trade?

-No.
-I don't, no.

-No.
-WEIR:
Right, so just to clarify,

you say that it's "endemic".

Rife, absolutely.

But you don't know anyone
who actually does it.

EMMA AND PHIL: No.

No, I mean, I could
if I needed to. I have
a very wide web of contacts.

Right, but it's not contacts
that you use?

Er, no. My position is
if you leak, you're weak.

If I'm going to come at you,
I'm going to come at you
head-on, man-on-man.

That's how I like it,
politically speaking.

You yourselves were
subject to a leak,
weren't you, in The Guardian?

How did you feel
about the email

containing your thoughts
about Mr Tickel's death?

Erm, it was, it was shameful.

-And it was insensitive.
-Absolutely.

And we would like to
apologise for that.

-I agree.
-It's dreadful.

I mean, their
comments were absolutely

unforgivable, mortifying.

"How many Mr
Tickles does it take
to change a light bulb?

"He doesn't have a light bulb,
he's in a tent.

"How do you turn Mr Tickle
into Mr Happy? Lithium.

"What's the difference
between Mr Tickle
and Captain Oates?

"Captain Oates has
a less stupid name."

Erm, and one I feel that is
particularly cruel,
Miss Messinger,

given Mr Tickel's
mental health issues,

"The fucker's a nutbag."

I'm sor...
It... That is not okay.

-Sorry.
-If I could add

a mea culpa here
rather than dancing around it,

others may
choose to attempt to
wriggle off the hook of shame,

but I cannot, I cannot deny
that my name is
on those emails

and yet I do not
recognise that man.

It is me,
and yet, it is another,
and for that I am truly sorry.

This has been
a humbling moment

in my quest to become
the man I know I can be.

How did you react to the news
of Mr Tickel's death?

-Shock.
-Absolute shock.

-Fell to pieces.
-Devastation.

Awful, I mean,
we couldn't believe it.
It was tragic...

SUREKA: Can I just refer you
to Dr Tara Strachan,

who I believe was
in your department
for a meeting at that time,

and she
described the atmosphere
in the office

as an atmosphere of elation.

And you, Mr Smith,
were seen to be
punching the air.

Do you remember doing that?

I, er,
I do not remember to that.

So, well, if you weren't
punching the air,

do you remember
what you were doing?

I cannot say to that.

Is it fair to say
that information
coming in and out of DoSAC is

sticky,
for want of a better word?

Yes. I would certainly agree
with that, to that.

Erm... (CLEARS THROAT)

If I, if I may speak freely
at this point, I think

-...the reason for
a lot of leaks...
-Please.

...coming out of DoSAC is
that it's very hard

to get information
out of the official channels.

There's a kind of blockage,
is there?

Exactly that,
and an information blockage.

And it, and it has
to find its way out
through other routes.

No, it is
actually Terri Coverley,

who is head of press,
in name only.

-Good, yes.
It's Terri, definitely.
-Yeah.

I, Teresa Jessica Coverley,

do sincerely
declare and affirm

that the evidence I shall give
will be the truth,

the whole truth
and nothing but the truth.

Please be seated,
Mrs Coverley.

Thank you very much.

Mr Hodge has some questions.

Very good to see
you this morning.
Infamous Terri Coverley.

(LAUGHS)

Why are you smiling?

I'm not smiling.

Yeah, or rather, I'm smiling,
but it's something I
do when I'm nervous.

-Erm...
-And you have
a guilty conscience?

No, no. No, no.

No, I don't have
a guilty conscience but I do
have a guilty face, erm, I...

I do blush a lot
and that's
a circulation thing,

not a moral thing,
though I, I do act guilty.
Erm...

When I was a child, erm,
my brother's hamster

was put into
a remote control aeroplane,

tragic consequences, and, erm,
unfortunately I
was blamed for that,

although I had
nothing to do with it,
it was,

it was that I
just looked guilty.

So I would ask you
to bear that in mind.

Can you explain to
us how communications
works in government?

Well, erm, I use an analogy.

Erm,

I like to think that dealing
with the press is not so
much herding cats,

it's more herding sheep,
and I am the shepherdess,

erm, if you like.
It's, it's... In order to be
an efficient shepherdess,

one needs a number
of things, I mean...

Firstly, one needs a whistle.
That's my voice.

Secondly, one needs a coat
and that's my coat.

And thirdly, one needs a dog,
and that, in my case,
is a lady called Robyn.

How was your relationship
with Nicola Murray?

-Professionally or personally?
-Professionally.

Not good.

And personally?

Not good. No, I mean, she,
she resented me. She was
jealous of me, I think.

I mean, a lot of women are.
And it's no secret that...

Well, she's a woman
who has issues. Er...

Major issues. I felt...

If you want me to be truthful,
I felt very sorry for her.

And your relationship
with Peter Mannion?

Oh.

Yeah, very, very, very good.

Erm, yes.
Both
professionally and personally.

Although, of course, I...
I draw a,
you know, between the two.

But he's a lovely man

to work with,
to be...to be with,
to be close to and...

Several others have referred
to you as a blockage.

Perhaps they meant buffer?

Because I am a buffer
between their heads

and things that want to
hurt their heads.

Who, in your opinion,
was responsible for the PFI
email being leaked?

Well,
that's not for me to say,
and I don't want to be accused

of telling
tales before school.

-But I think it
was Malcolm Tucker.
-Why do you think that?

Erm, feminine intuition.

Feel it in my water.

Any reasons
beyond your bladder?

Well, Malcolm can be very,
very tough. I mean,
that's no secret, he...

Can you give me an example?

Well, he can send
very forthright texts.

And would you say
he was bullying?

Well, I can look after myself.

I mean,
I wasn't bullied at school.
I was very popular.

But if you were somebody who,
who, who had been
bullied at school,

somebody who was weak
or not popular, someone like
Robyn, for example, yes,

I think Malcolm
Tucker would be very,
very intimidating indeed, yes.

You are happy to go on record
saying Malcolm was a bully?

-Erm...
-HODGE: Malcolm was a bully?

-Mmm...
-HODGE:
We'll need a yes or a no.

Well, yes, then. Yes.

Mr Tucker is in next,
I can't imagine he'll be very
happy about that.

No, he won't. No, he won't.

Right.
Right, well I think we can
leave it there, Mrs Coverley.

Oh, good.
Sorry, I mean, thank you.

Thank you.
Thank you very much,

Your...Your Lordship.

GOOLDING:
We may need to call you back,

as I feel there
are some issues
that still need clarification.

Very good. Yes, of course.

Thank you for agreeing
to return to us at
such short notice, Mr Tucker.

It's no problem, it's...

You only appear in front
of the Goolding Inquiry twice,

once on the way up
and on the way down.

Let's hope
that's not the case.

Glad to see you again,
Mr Tucker.

Nice to be here.

Did you watch the evidence
given by Terri Coverley?

Yes. And I found her
quite funny, without
resulting to vulgarity.

She was very clear that
she regarded you as a bully,

something that
you denied in your,
in your first testimony.

How do you respond to that?

Um, well, I respond thusly,
that that's slander.

GOOLDING:
We're trying to clarify
the culture of communications

over which you presided.

And we have a contradiction
between participants.

Well, I would say that
I'm someone who lives and
breathes communication,

so I would lend more
weight to my words,

rather than to someone
who is just in it
for the pension.

And how is that not slander?

Well, because that's true.

She wants a pension more than
Richard Hammond wants
a punch in the face.

You know,
she sat here for an hour.

You can't have looked at her
and thought

this was not a person
who isn't mentally un-robust.

I'd like to
return to the Batpeople
photograph, if I may.

-Why not?
Yes, one of my triumphs.
-Yes.

Now,
you said you were cropped out
of the original photo.

Sadly, yes.

But they have enlarged,
can we show the enlargement?

They have enlarged
that photograph for us.

Now, could we go to
the close-up of the folders
that you're carrying

in that photograph?
There we are.

Who enlarged this?
Was it The Guardian

-that did this for you?
-SUREKA: I believe so.

I didn't know
they were
offering that service.

-They should do
passport photos as well.
-Thank you.

They'd double their revenue
if they did passport photos
a couple of times.

This is the folder that
you are carrying in your hand,

and you see there,
there's a document

poking up out of the top,
on the notepad.

Erm, there's
a series of numbers written
across the top there,

would you be able to tell us
what the first
two numbers are?

I don't... Well, they look
like telephone numbers,
I don't know.

Yes, they are Mr Tickel's
mobile phone number

and his ex-wife's
landline number.

Yeah.

Well, there's nothing untoward
about me having those.

Well, actually Mrs Tickel's
phone number was ex-directory.

But let's just leave that
to one side for a moment.

-MALCOLM: Very wise.
-The bottom set of numbers.

Do you have any recollection
as to what they might be?

No.

SUREKA: Really? I mean,
you didn't even look.

Where are we going with this?

They are Mr Tickel's
NHS number and his
National Insurance number.

Mr Tucker.

(EXHALES DEEPLY)

So why would you have that?

I don't, I don't recall...

GOOLDING: Sorry, can I just
clarify that?

Are you saying
you don't recall
having them

or you don't recall
how you obtained them?

Erm...

I don't recall having them.

But it appears to me that
you have been rather careless
in this instance,

-Mr Tucker.
-Not at all.

SUREKA: What? No.
You were photographed
with these papers,

you flaunted your ruse
to puff yourself up,

thereby drawing attention
to this photograph,

this photograph
which is now implicating
you in a rather troubling way.

Sorry, I didn't
hear a question there.

-Is there a question here?
-It was an observation,
Mr Tucker.

It's an observation, so what,
are we... Is this an inquiry
or an observatory?

It's an optician's.

You'd like a question.
Here is a question for you.

Do you have an explanation
for having these numbers?

Those numbers are not
necessarily what
you say they are.

Did you request
this information?

Erm...

Because, Mr Tucker,
if you didn't
request the information,

the only other way
that it could have come to you

would have been if
somebody had supplied
you with his NHS number,

which would,
of course, be illegal.

-Yes.
-SUREKA: Yes.

As would obtaining his
health records and releasing
them to the press,

which you denied
all knowledge of earlier,

and you would have
committed a crime.

-MALCOLM: Well, I...
-Mr Tucker,
a very serious crime.

Well, as you say, I denied it.

Yes. And, um...

do you repeat
that denial here?

I'm not sure that
you know exactly
how this all works.

Mr Tucker, are you repeating
that denial?

Yes, erm...

I, I am.

I deny it. I do deny it.

Thank you.

HODGE: Of course, you were,
until quite recently,

Leader of the Opposition.
You led your party for...

-For two years, yes.
-...twenty-two
months and nine days.

Yes, I was rounding up.

How does it feel to
lose that position
so abruptly, and so publicly?

Erm, horrible.

(LAUGHS) It feels horrible.

I think I felt as I would feel

if I were being
strangled to death
by somebody I trusted.

Yes, er, the press have been
unkind to you

over much of
your recent career,
haven't they?

Well, when you're
a high-profile politician,

you expect to be
in the public gaze. Erm...

I would say that there's a,
there's a certain level
of extra scrutiny

that is afforded to women
in the public gaze,
I'm sure you would agree.

But you were, erm,
followed around for six months

by a man dressed a pork chop.

Is that the particular
kind of scrutiny

that, that you're saying
is reserved for women?

No, that was just
reserved for me.

(GALLERY CHUCKLING)

If we, erm,
just could turn to Tab 16.

We have some articles here.
There's quite a few, actually.
Erm...

On top of the second page
here, there is
an exploded view of your face.

Yes, well they have, erm...

They have magnified a picture
of my top lip

in the hope of
finding a moustache,
which I do not have,

I never have had a moustache,
so...

If we, er, yes, again,

if we turn to the fourth page
of this tab.

"Frumpy,
grumpy and dangerous to know:

"how Nicola
Murray went from gold
to lead in six months."

I mean, this is typical of

many of the pieces
printed about you
at the time,

-about a year ago, wasn't it?
-Yes, it was.

Over 35 major articles.

Yes. Yeah. I mean, I...

I suppose
the point I'd make is that

we're sitting here in,
in our ivory, erm, inquiry,

and out there,
in the real world,

there is actual
news happening.

You know, we've got
the chief whip's office,

you know, during the course
of this morning

has come under very
particular scrutiny,

there are funding issues,
there's
the justice minister crisis

that's suddenly sort of
spiralling out of control,

I just, I don't quite know why
we're focussing
on my moustache.

-Which I don't have.
-I'm afraid both of those

very recent developments may
well be the subject of
police investigations,

so cannot be
discussed in this room.

Which shows
they've done the job.

Done the job?

Well, it just seems to me
that somebody is engineering

this flurry of
press reports in order
to divert attention from the,

er, shall we say,
dramatic
revelations of this inquiry.

I mean, it just seems like
there's another story
every five minutes.

And who would
that somebody be?

Well, erm...

I'd...
Maybe we should ask Taggart.
(LAUGHS)

Would you care to make
a specific
allegation against someone?

No, I wouldn't care to, no.

On a completely
unrelated matter,

Malcolm Tucker was
pleased to see you go,
is that a fair statement?

Yes, I think that would be
fair to say. Yes.

Did he engineer
the leaking of the email
that led to your resignation?

Er, well, I don't have any

solid evidence,
er, that he did that.

-Erm...
-(MOBILE RINGING)

Sounds like somebody else's
career has just gone
into the shredder.

I have asked for all
mobile phones to be
turned completely off, please.

-I'm sorry, Mrs Murray.
-NICOLA: Yes, it is...

Mr Hodge.

Mrs Murray, we spoke earlier
about your husband's interests

in the key worker
housing sell-off.

Yes, we spoke about
his lack of interest,
in fact, to be precise.

HODGE:
Yes, well I've no wish to
re-tread that particular...

No, I've no wish to, either.

I mean, I really do want to
make that quite clear,

I'm finding this constant
reiteration of my husband's,
er, innocent position

to be wearing in the extreme.

Mrs Murray, may I remind you
that you did ask for this
inquiry to be set up.

I didn't not want an inquiry.

Well, presumably there was
something that you feel that
needed to be said,

needed to be asked, about, er,
about PFI, about leaking.

I think that it's a good idea
to have an inquiry
every now and then,

I just think it, erm,
livens things up a bit.

On that subject, was it, erm,

Mr Tucker who persuaded
you call for an inquiry into
Mr Tickel's death?

Er, I called for
the inquiry after
Mr Tucker had spoken to me.

Is there a better party
happening elsewhere?

I'm sorry, Mrs Murray,
in view of events developing
outside of this room,

some of which may be subject
to police investigations,

and consequently to re-examine
the parameters
of this inquiry,

I think we'll leave it there
for the moment, Mrs Murray.

Well, yeah,
I have actually prepared
a very brief statement,

which I think will clarify
my position on...

I'm afraid we don't have
the time for that.

It is very brief. Erm,

I think it was
Gandhi who once said

that an honest man
is a gift from God
and a gift to...

I'm sure a written submission
will suffice.

Thank you so much.
I'm now going to
adjourn for a short period.

For fuck's sake.

GOOLDING: Please be seated.
Thank you for your attendance,
Ms Murdoch.

Erm,
Mr Weir has some questions.

If I can turn to you...
(CLEARS THROAT)
...Ms Murdoch, erm,

how would you
describe your relationship
with Ms Coverley?

Do you, do you,
do you get on
well with, with her?

No.

Can you, erm...

Can you expand on
that for us a little?

No,

I do not

get on with her,

erm, we do not get on.

I think we do.

-(LAUGHS)
-There may have been times

when we do get on,

and have got on, erm,
I do not recall to that.

Thank you.

Ms Coverley, you compared
Ms Murdoch to a dog

and described her as weak
in our, in our last interview.

Yeah,
I like, I like weak dogs.

I have,
I have one myself, so...

(CLEARS THROAT)

Would you say that there is
a culture of,

of bullying within DoSAC?

If I could ask you first,
Ms Murdoch.

Erm,
I'd say there was a culture
of bullying me at DoSAC.

You've
experienced bullying there?

Well, you know,
I see them all
standing around,

you know, chattering
like squirrels on Red Bull.

And when I ask them
what they're talking about,

they usually bark
a tea order at me.

Or, you know, or call me
the blonde bombshite,

if I can use that word,
or some other
horrible sweary thing.

That's the form that
the bullying takes?

And if you refuse to make
your boss's tea, you know,

they, er, they call you
Mariella Shitstrop.

Or Flouncy Sinatra,
which doesn't
even really work!

NICOLA: Yes.
HODGE: Thank you.

Can I ask you both about the
leaked Guardianemail?

Oh, yes! Ask away,
ask anything you like,

I don't know
anything about that bit.

Yeah, thank you Robyn, erm,

the email was
leaked from my computer,

which is proof that
it was not me that sent it,

erm, people do not leak
from their own computers,
that's not how it's done.

How, how is it done,
then, Mrs Coverley?

I don't know.

Well, you just said something
that implies you do
know how it's done.

I don't know.

How do you know, then,
that leaking is done

from other people's computers?

I mean, do you learn this from
a leakers' charter?

Is it perhaps put up
on a staff notice board?

Mr Glenn Cullen informed me.
Erm,

he, er, he told me that
if leaking is done, it's done
from other computers.

Glenn Cullen?

Yeah, I'm not saying anything
about Glenn Cullen himself,
you understand.

You know, he is a very,
very trustworthy individual.

Borderline priest.

No, Terri's right.
I heard it was
Glenn who did it.

No, I did not say
that Glenn Cullen did it.

No, I, I, when I meant
that Glenn told you,

erm, not that, that I meant
that Glenn did it.

To return for a moment
to the subject of bullying,

where did Malcolm Tucker
stand in all this?

The department's
a horrible place,

and when Malcolm was there
he was part of that.

You know,
he was the big bully.

The other people are
horribly rude and the rudeness
is unnecessary,

but you know,
I don't get any sense

that they've,
they've got a big
plan or anything.

You know,
to be honest, I think they're
just trying to

get through the day
without cocking up

and drink as many
hot drinks as possible
in the process.

Moving on,
do you know anything about
Malcolm Tucker's involvement

with data smuggling?

Specifically
private NHS details.

(WHISPERING) I think...

Uh,
no, no, I'm afraid we don't.

I don't.
Erm, would it be possible

for me to revise
the opinion that I gave
of Malcolm Tucker

on my first appearance?
Your Lordship? Yes?

You may revise it,
but it will
stay on the record.

Okay, um, well,
I just wanted to make it
absolutely clear

that having thought about it
in the grand scheme of things,

I don't think it is fair
to say that Malcolm is a bully
or that he's brutal.

Certainly not when you
compare him to some of his
fellow countrymen.

Well, I think Malcolm's
really difficult,
and you do too, Terri.

I don't know why
you're being so coy.

It's not like he'll do a,
you know.

"A you know"? What's this?

You know, that story about you
in the papers.

The story involving
me in the newspapers

is not the subject
of this investigation,

so we are not
going to discuss it
any further.

Now, Ms Murdoch, what about
the use of data smuggling
within government?

Do you know
anything about that?

Yeah, loads.
There are dodgy
people in the NHS

and the benefits office
who talk to
investigators all the time.

Right, and you have
experience of this?

Yeah, I've been on
the receiving end of it.

-SUREKA: Mmm?
-I didn't know

that the notes your GP makes
are available to
your local pharmacist.

I went to see my
mother's doctor
about her alcohol problem,

which is
a private family matter.

Next thing I knew,
it's all round the village.

Yes. And now it's
all round the world.

Exactly!

(GALLERY LAUGHS)

(WHISPERING)
She's saying that
that's your fault.

How?

As you can see,
Baroness Sureka is not with us

and will remain
absent while she deals
with the personal allegations

published in The Sunday Times.

This in no way
invalidates this inquiry

nor does it
compromise the integrity
of any questioning

conducted by Baroness Sureka.

Mr Hodge.

Thank you. Oliver Reeder,

you were a senior adviser
to Nicola Murray

during her time as
Secretary of State at DoSAC.

Yup. I was the senior adviser.

Very good, and when Ms Murray
became Leader of
the Opposition,

you were also
one of her senior advisers?

Yeah, again,
the senior adviser, yeah.

I see, and now
you're a senior adviser
to Mr Dan Miller?

Yeah, yeah, a slightly less
pivotal role with, with Dan,

but part of this, kind of,
a larger pivot, really.

Mmm-hmm, thank you.
Well, Mr Reeder,

they say that in politics
knowledge is power.

True, yes,
although that doesn't mean

that Carol Vorderman
should be prime minister.
Er...

Or I should've, or maybe
I should say Stephen Fry,

-'cause Carol's
just maths, but yeah.
-Thank you.

You've known Malcolm Tucker
for, for, for some years now.

Yes, I have, yes.

He seems like
an intimidating person.
Is he?

Er,
well, I mean, not, not to me.

-WEIR: No?
-No.

Er, no. No, although
he doesn't, he doesn't
suffer fools gladly,

I think that's fair to say.
Or clever people,
to be honest.

So he's never bullied you?

Well,
do I look like I could be
bullied by Mr Tucker?

I... No.

(GALLERY LAUGHING)

Could you turn to Tab 9?

You'll find it in your,
in your folder there. Yeah.

Erm, we have some, er,
some quotes here.

Some evidence from
several civil servants who all
independently suggest

that Mr Tucker, in fact,
regularly did bully you.

"Mr Tucker
threatened to remove
Mr Reeder's appendix,

"throw away Mr Reeder,

"and appoint the useless flap
of colon as special adviser."

-Yeah. Well, that's, yes!
-Erm...

That's banter.

"Mr Tucker told Mr Reeder that
he would have him smothered,
eviscerated,

"stuffed, fitted with wheels
and donated to an orphanage."

No, that's, what...

'Cause this is out of context,
what you don't have
there is my reply.

-And so,
you know, it's just him.
-WEIR: And what was that?

Er, er...
Well, I don't remember
what it was on this occasion,

it would have been,
but it would
have been a, you know,

it would have been a zinger,
because I gave as good as
I got, so it's...

-WEIR: Very good.
-So it's not bullying.

Is there anything
about the leaking
of the so-called PFI email

that you feel that
this inquiry should,
should be aware of?

Oh, God, erm... I mean, I'm...

I mean, to be brutally frank,
I'm struggling to
remember here, but...

-Well, please take your time.
-Yeah, of course.

-There's no, there's no hurry.
-Of course, yeah.

I mean, I think, you know,
what you have to remember,

in this instance,
is that on the day that
all of that stuff took place,

erm, I was in hospital.

So, I'm, you know,
I'm cut off, essentially,
I didn't have a phone...

I mean, I hadn't mentioned
the use of a phone, I mean...

Yes, no, I know.
I'm simply saying I was...

You weren't working remotely
from the hospital?

No, no, not remotely.
In, in, in either sense.
No. No.

-Did you have any visitors?
-Erm...

-You must be able
to remember that.
-Erm...

Well, if you're not
completely sure, Mr Reeder,

you can always check
with the visitors' records.

Well, don't...
Let's not do that, erm,
let's do that for the moment,

Let me just... Just give...
Bear with me.

Er, but I...did, yes.

I think I was visited by, erm,
by colleagues from the office.

Can you give us a name?

Er, Malcolm is a name,
is his name.
Malcolm's name, Malcolm,

Malcolm Tucker visited me.

I'm assuming this
wasn't a social visit.
What did...

What did he want?
What did Mr Tucker want?

He wanted to...
Right. Well, okay...

I mean, I'm really,
I'm anxious, I'm keen,

I'm trying my best to answer
your questions
truthfully but...

I should remind you
you are under oath, Mr...

Absolutely,
yes, I'm under oath,
so this is... But, but...

Er, what you have
to understand is

everybody has something
on everyone here, right?

So in this circumstance,
if you inadvertently

say or do something, erm, er,

you know, that you shouldn't,
then that's it.
That's it, that's it.

It's done,
your career is done.

You know, look what happened
to a member of
this inquiry, right?

So you have to...

Mr Reeder,
this is not the place
to discuss those allegations.

No, of course, of course.

-WEIR:
Mr Reeder, if you feel...
-Yeah.

You feel under pressure,
am I right?

Is that because of
something that you know?

Yes.
Well, no. General pressure,

I feel under a sort of...
Just that,
it's the jitters of work.

Who leaked the email,
Mr Reeder?

-Glen Cullen.
-(PEOPLE MURMURING)

Er,
he was in DoSAC at the time

and he still had
access to the email
and he hated his life.

And he, you know,
he hated Nicola Murray
because she'd previously

destroyed his chances
of standing as an MP.

Most helpful, Glenn Cullen
is our next witness.

-Most interesting, thank you.
-Oh, well, okay.

GOOLDING:
That's fine, thank you.

Mr Cullen.

I wonder if I could start
by taking you back to that
time two years ago,

you left Nicola
Murray and you went
to work for Fergus Williams.

Yes, yes I did, that's right.

And then you found yourself
in a coalition

with the very
party that you opposed.

That must have been
extremely distressing.

No, not at all,
as a matter of fact. I was
very invigorated by the idea

of trying to forge
a new way in politics.

Mm-hmm, so all was rosy?

Well, erm, I can't think of
any negatives.

HODGE: No friction?

No, the only F-word was fun.

HODGE: Thank you,
Mr Cullen, thank you.

Mr Cullen. Would you say
there's a culture of leaking
in the government?

Yes, I would.
Yes, leaking and lying.

To your knowledge, have
any of your colleagues lied
to this inquiry?

Well, I mean,
that's a bit like asking,
you know, erm,

does a cow drink milk?

Does it?

Probably.

But what I meant to say was,
yes, erm,
my colleagues lie constantly.

It's a professional necessity.

Have you ever leaked,
Mr Cullen?

First of all, may I just say,
er, welcome back,
Baroness Sureka. Big hugs.

I'm sure I speak for everyone
here when I say that we're all
thinking of you.

-And you have been...
-I'd rather you swapped

the ham-fisted flattery
for actually
answering my question,

which was
have you ever leaked?

Right. No,
it's a very simple question

and it's got
a very simple answer.
No, I haven't.

You'll be aware
of Olly Reeder's
testimony to the inquiry

where he said that you were,
in fact,
responsible for the PFI leak.

Yes, I am.

By which I mean to say
I am aware of, of that.

But gosh, you've got to be
careful what you say here,
haven't you?

You most
certainly do, Mr Cullen.

Let's hope
we're both up to it.

Is there any truth at all in
Mr Reeder's accusations?

Absolutely none whatsoever.

He's talking out of his...
Out of his other cheeks,
if you...

Why would
Oliver Reeder suggest

that you were behind
the PFI email leak, then?

I've absolutely no idea.

It's very difficult for me
to get into the mindset

of somebody so
entirely self-serving
and, erm,

and spiritually ugly.

I mean, anyone who's been
unfortunate enough to have
come across Olly Reeder

will know that
he is a genuinely

atrocious person.

-Erm...
-Mmm.

Do you believe Mr Reeder
was trying to cover himself,
in that case?

Well, I do believe he has the
emotional tools for the task.
Yes, certainly.

Do you believe
that Olly Reeder
was behind the leak?

No.

You see,

a leak of this
magnitude would require

one essential
item that Olly lacks.

And that's a spine.

He is a man without a spine.
He is a man-worm.

He's a writhing
mollusc without
any strategies or convictions.

He,
he simply slimes his way into
the nearest crack every night

and I would like to put
on record that I apologise
to this committee

for being the man who brought
him into
the world of politics.

The truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth.

Thank you for
returning to this inquiry,
Mr Tucker.

That's no problem.
I had a hair appointment

but I think they can fit me in
next week.

There's no need to be
so flippant
about this inquiry.

Well, it's just, you know,
you keep asking me
the same questions,

I can't really help it
if you don't like the answers.

Maybe you could try a
little harder in answering.

I'm amazed you've stayed
at the top of politics

for quite so long
with such apparently
poor powers of recall.

Well, maybe it's my age.
It's good to see
you back, by the way.

Thank you.
Nice to see you, too.

At your last
appearance at this inquiry,

you admitted that
you have leaked,
is that correct?

Well, everyone leaks.

Many, many people who have
appeared here in front of you

have leaked,
but they've just lied
about it to you.

Mr Tucker,
that's an incredibly
serious charge,

do you have any evidence
to substantiate
that allegation?

Well, you will forgive me if
I don't do your job for you.

Because if you can't spot
a sprayed-on halo

while there's someone doing a,
you know, "what, me, guv?"
panto act,

maybe you shouldn't
be sitting behind that desk.

At your last appearance
we asked you very specifically

how you came by
Mr Tickel's NHS number and
National Insurance number.

And you could not recall.

Have you had any more
time to think about it?

Yes, I have.

And could you
tell us any more?

No.

You've got no
recollection at all?

No.
By the way, you should not be
talking to me about this,

because you've been
a victim of a leaking,
a very unfortunate victim,

and I have every
sympathy with you.

But how can you possibly
give me a fair hearing

when you've been a victim
of the very crime that you
are accusing me of?

You are prejudiced.
This entire inquiry,
therefore, is prejudiced.

II can see what you're doing.
It smacks of desperation and
it will not work.

Does it? No,
listen, there you go again,

see that's you, you're just
rushing to judgement.

You are totally
discredited here.

I am obliged to
remind you, Mr Tucker,
that you are under oath

and if you lie
to this inquiry, it may result
in a criminal prosecution.

Sorry, please don't insult
my intelligence

by acting as if you're all
so naive that you don't know
how this all works.

Everybody in this room

has bent the rules
to get in here, because
you don't get in this room

without bending the rules.
You don't get to where you are

without bending the rules,
that's the way it is.

Mr Tucker, I am going
to give you one more chance to
respond to my question.

How did you
acquire Mr Tickel's
NHS number

and his National
Insurance number?

Who said I acquired it?

A photograph.

No,
no, the photograph shows me
holding it.

Doesn't show me acquiring it.

You'd have to ask the person
that gave me the folder.

-SUREKA:
Who gave you the folder?
-I don't remember.

You are being
deliberately evasive.

(SCOFFS)

I...

I don't recall.

You know,
I don't, I don't know.
I can't remember.

GOOLDING: Very well.

Regardless of how you came by
Mr Tickel's
mental health records,

did you then leak
them to the media?

I can't recall.

So that's not a denial?

Je neremember rien.

Well, if you can't recall,

it, it leaves
open the possibility
that you did leak them.

MALCOLM: Let me tell you this.

The whole planet's leaking,
everybody is leaking.

You know,
everyone's spewing up
their guts onto the internet.

Putting up their,
their relationship status

and their photos
of their vajazzles.

We've come to
a point where there are
people, millions of people,

who are quite happy to trade
a kidney in order
to go on television.

And to show people
their knickers, to show people
their skid marks,

and then complain to
OK! Magazine
about a breach of privacy.

The exchange of
private information, that is
what drives our economy.

But you come after me because
you can't, you can't arrest
a land mass, can you?

You can't,
you can't cuff a country.

You might as well just go
and go... You can't lynch that
guy there, can you?

But you decide that
you can sit there,

you can judge,
and you can ogle
me like a page three girl.

You don't like it.
Well, you don't like yourself.

You don't like your species
and you know what?

Neither do I,
but how dare you come
and lay this at my door?

How dare you
blame me for this?

Which is the result
of a political class

which has given up on morality

and simply pursues popularity
at all costs.

I am you and you are me.

Are you finished?

Ah, I'm finished, anyway.
You didn't finish me.

Would you like to stand down?

Thanks for nothing.

SUREKA:
Are you not the human router?

I'm the human router, yes.

But I think you'll
find that leaking
is very much a 3G business.

You know, it's,
it's off the house Wi-Fi grid.

I assume you're referring to
the leaking of Mr Tickel's
medical records,

and I would like to say
I find that disgraceful

and I would like
that on the record.

SUREKA: Everything we say here
is on the record,

Mr Williams,
that's how this works.

Well, that's great.

When I was a journalist, okay,

when I was
a journalist at the Mail,
I used leaks.

Now I'm in government,
I do not leak.

Wayne Rooney, for example,
he used to score
goals for Everton.

And now he plays for,
for Manchester United.

Now, nobody expects
him to score goals
for Everton any more, do they?

I mean, if he did that,
United would, would,
would give him the sack.

WEIR: Although you did
previously describe yourself
as a, a shepherdess.

Now, did you have anything
to add to that?

I just...
Shepherdess, did she say...
Did you say shepherdess?

Yes, I was,
I was giving an analogy.
I mean, to be, to be fair,

erm, perhaps it would have
been more accurate for me
to describe myself

as a sheep in
shepherdess's clothing.
Do you follow?

Uh, no. Not completely. No.

The shepherdess analogy
is flawed, anyway.

Malcolm Tucker is very much
a political Flintstone,
you know?

He carves his press releases
into stone tablets.

He uses a bird's beak to play
his Happy Monday vinyls.

He leaks.