Original subtitles

Hidden power.

Secrets. Cover -ups.

Corruption.

You think you know the whole story?

Think again.

I've been governor.

A Navy SEAL.

A fighter.

I've heard things that'll blow your mind.

And now I think it's time you get the whole story.

Now, the government conspiracy to track your every move.

They keep files on us? And make sure you don't step out of line.

Big Brother is in the corner office where you work. Big Brother is your

It begins where technology and terrorism collide and reaches right into your

life. I take a special design rifle. I shoot.

I plug the sticks on the back of your car.

I can now listen to conversations inside your car.

They're watching from above, from below, inside your wallet, and under your

skin. The endpoint's going to be a microchip implanted in your body.

And you won't believe who's doing the spying.

We're going to have kids ratting their parents, neighbors ratting against their

neighbors, and the government is setting all this up? If that isn't scary, what

is?

They're closer than you think.

Big Brother is everywhere.

Big Brother is big business.

Is Big Brother watching you?

I'm Jesse Ventura, and this is Conspiracy Theory.

Jesse Ventura is in Oklahoma City.

He's here to expose a group of your neighbors who moonlight as government

He's tracked them down.

He's found out where they work.

And he's not letting them off the hook.

Because this time, it's personal.

This is an outrage.

I am outraged. Is this Nazi Germany we're talking about?

I fought for my country as a Navy SEAL.

I've served in public office.

I don't like the idea of my government spying on its citizens.

And when I found out they were spying on me, the governor, I vowed to find out

who's behind it.

The investigation begins in Los Angeles.

Jesse meets with Catherine Albrecht, an expert on privacy and surveillance.

Catherine, you know, I'm concerned because it just seems to me Like Big

where the government seems to be wanting to watch us more and more.

Well, the argument always made for these technologies is they'll make us safer.

That's always the argument. We've got surveillance cameras going up

Yeah, I notice in the city of Minneapolis now, they've got a camera on

street corner supposedly to help with traffic and all that stuff.

Well, you've got some of the safest communities in the United States right

installing cameras. And you say, well, why would they need this? Why are they

doing that? And the answer is that the federal government is going into

communities around the country at the local level and installing this

surveillance infrastructure.

And people don't understand how all of this ultimately is going to tie

And I believe that if we're not careful, we're going to lose all of our

constitutionally protected rights.

And now I've heard rumor there's something they want to do to people in

border state. What's that all about?

Yeah, this is part of a new program where to cross the border into Canada or

Mexico, they want people to get these RFID tags and their driver's licenses.

It's a tiny microchip hooked up to a little antenna pressed between the

of the plastic.

For what purpose?

The idea is it's an alternative to a passport. So you're driving up in your

You've got the customs station, you know, 20, 30 feet away.

They can actually read your driver's license from that distance.

So the guy sitting in the booth pulls up your picture and then is able to

identify you when you come through. What they say it's for is so you can get

through the border more quickly. You save 15 seconds, which to my mind is not

lot of time.

What makes this crazy is that the type of RFID technology that they've put into

these licenses can be picked up by anybody.

I can spend a couple hundred bucks and buy a reader to pick this up. I could be

standing here right now reading the number off of your ID card right through

your pocket, right through your wallet. The wrong people could literally steal

anything you got in your wallet. Absolutely. And these RFID tags, they're

on credit cards now.

If you want to understand how this can be abused, IBM has a patent for

they call the person tracking unit.

They've actually got a plan to put the readers in bathrooms, in elevators,

sports arenas, shopping malls, everywhere people go.

IBM's plan is they would use it to track you, literally track you for marketing

purposes and hand over the information to law enforcement. So this really is

George Orwell's 1984.

It's worse. It's worse. Because at least in that Orwellian world, he could get

away. In this world, if we don't stop it, Dan Point's going to be an RFID

microchip. planted in your body.

Jesse heads back to Phil and his team.

It's time to launch the hunt for the people robbing your freedom.

I don't like the idea that people and entities are watching me and recording

what I do for whatever reason. It's called freedom.

Fine, but how do we know who Big Brother is? Well, Alex, don't look at Big

Brothers like a person. Look at it like an idea.

You know, if you stop and look at what's happened after 9 -11 especially, now

we've been saddled with the Patriot Act, which in essence gives the government

the freedom to do things they could never get away with before.

I mean, before, if they wanted to enter your house...

They had to go to a judge, show probable cause, and get a search warrant.

Well, the Patriot Act throws that right out the window now. So you're saying you

think they jumped on 9 -11 as an excuse to spy on the public? It sure was

convenient. Wait a minute. Are we forgetting the fact that the world is

people who would like nothing better than to kill us?

I mean, don't you want to kind of know what those people are doing? I do. But

are they spying on the right people?

Look, if you're on the phone call and you're calling the liquor store, they

don't really care what you're doing. You don't know what they care about,

Michael. What if I'm on the phone making a little joke and I use a keyword that

pops up in their computer and next thing you know, I'm on the no -fly list?

That's paranoia. It is not paranoia. I don't know. Check you out and see that

there's nothing to worry about. Let me tell you guys something out of a

practical note.

I'm going to tell you a little bit of a story.

About a month after I was elected governor, I was requested into the

the Capitol to be interviewed by 23 members of the Central Intelligence

the CIA.

They were very formal.

It was governor, sir, and all that.

But they put me in a chair and they were in a big half moon around me. And I

said to them, look, before I answer any of your questions, I want to know what

you're doing here.

Because in the CIA mission statement, it says that they're not to be operational

inside the United States of America.

Well, they wouldn't really give me an answer on that. And then I said, I want

go around the room and I want each one of you to tell me your name and what you

do.

Half of them wouldn't.

Now, isn't that bizarre?

I'm the governor.

And these guys won't even answer questions from me.

Then they started questioning me, and it was all about how I got elected.

And you know what the most bizarre thing about it was?

There was every array of person you could imagine.

Young people, old people, all nationalities. And that's what really

These were people that you would see every day.

They looked like your neighbors.

I think we've got to start talking to people that are in this business.

We've got to start talking to people so we can find out how deep they're going

in. I want to know who's being spied on and who's doing it.

The conspiracy probe gets underway.

Who is Big Brother watching and how?

Coming up, the government uses weapons of war to spy on you and me.

Within six hours, I have two Secret Service agents at my house. They had a

transcript of every word that was said on the telephone.

Then, Jesse Ventura becomes a human target of Big Brother technology.

That is Big Brother at its finest.

And later, showdown on Main Street, USA.

Jesse confronts the people spying on you.

I'm a big believer in this, Governor.

I carry it with me. I'll say this to you just as long as you don't step on that

Bill of Rights while you're doing all this.

But first, in his own words, here's an inside look at Jesse Ventura, brought to

you by GEICO. I really went into life not knowing what I was going to do. I

joined the Navy at age 18 and went through BUDS, Basic Underwater

Seal Training, and did all the death -defying stuff that the Navy SEAL does

today. Wrestling kind of reared its head in the fact that I had a great interest

in theater at college. Theater and physical sports.

It's ballet with violence. I got the good fortune. of being able to name

When you go into the world of pro wrestling, especially as a villain, it's

always good to use your real name. And I always loved the name Jesse.

Pulled out of Napa, California, and I started matching Jesse up. And when I

Jesse Ventura, the light went on.

Being governor, I think the most remarkable thing that it did to me is it

restored my faith that there's still a sliver of the American dream left. No

other governor can match what I did.

Keep watching Jesse Ventura as conspiracy theory continues. Brought to

GEICO.

Remember something, and mark this down in stone.

Whenever government says they're going to protect you, Get ready because you're

going to lose your freedom for that protection.

And I personally would rather have my freedoms than the protection.

Freedom and liberty are on the line as Jesse Ventura's team investigates the

Brother conspiracy.

Who's spying on you and why?

Jesse sends investigator June Sarpong.

On a late -night rendezvous in a dicey neighborhood, she's meeting a man who

says his patriotism led Big Brother straight to his front door.

For safety's sake, the governor's advisor, Michael Braverman, provides

The subject arrives on foot.

Jeff Dahlstrom is a former U .S. Air Force pilot.

He's part of a loose -knit group.

that keeps track of government terror drills, exercises that simulate attacks

American cities.

There had been a lot of talk back in October of 2007 about then the largest

drill they were planning.

Dahlstrom says he became a Big Brother target two years ago when he spoke the

wrong words on the telephone.

When I happened to call my bank, my Wells Fargo banker was operating out of

Portland, Oregon.

I recognized from the area code of her phone number, I just warned her not to

downtown.

I said, look, you know, whatever you do next week, don't go downtown in Portland

because there's a drill where they're going to simulate setting up a nuclear

bomb. Now, I think when I said that word, it triggered this Echelon computer

system.

Echelon is a satellite -based intelligence network.

It's capable of intercepting and listening in on anyone's phone calls.

I said, don't go downtown next week because they're having an exercise.

And when I said the word bomb or nuclear bomb or whatever the trigger word was,

it activated the computer that notified the Secret Service to come out and talk

to me. I'm talking to the banker around 930 in the morning.

Within six hours, I have two Secret Service agents at my house.

They had a transcript of every word that was said on the telephone, and they

interviewed me for an hour and a half to two hours. And they wanted to know,

well, what was I talking about? I had just been reading about it on the

Internet.

The only thing I want to kind of double check is how do you know that the bank

teller didn't just call 9 -1 -1?

Yeah,

I mean, I literally that's the first thing I thought of, too.

After the interview was over, I called Wells Fargo. I talked to that same

I spoke to on the phone and asked him if they had called anybody like the Secret

Service or the government.

And asked them to, and they said, no, that's against our privacy laws. She

categorically said she did not. She said she did not do it. And it was against

our policy to do that. Exactly.

It's absolutely frightening.

The next morning, investigator Alex Piper arrives in Washington, D .C.

He's looking to back up Jeff Dahlstrom's story.

His source is Tim Shorick.

An investigative journalist who's dug deep into the spying game.

And thanks for having us.

You're welcome.

Shora keeps an eye on the ones who keep an eye on us.

When people talk about Big Brother watching you, Big Brother listening,

we talking about here? Are we talking about I'm on the phone and I use a

keyword or I call a certain somebody who might be on a list somewhere and then

all of a sudden...

I'm under surveillance. I mean, in layman's terms, how is this affecting

everyday person?

The way it affects the everyday person is if you call organizations that are

suspected to be terrorist organizations, or if you talk to, say, somebody in

Syria, it might be your best friend who lived there, or it might be a relative

or something like that, there's a strong likelihood you'll be listened to. And

then, of course, they do listen for key words.

Shora confirms they listen in.

But what's more disturbing is who they are.

He says the government is outsourcing spy work to private corporations and

turning weapons of war on its own citizens.

It's the most secretive operations run by our government. Many of them are

handled and run by private sector contractors.

Companies like SAIC or CACI. And they do everything that you'd think an

intelligence officer does.

Covert operations, eavesdropping.

Is it safe to say that our intelligence community is now a for -profit business?

I think it's safe to say that.

70 % of our intelligence budget goes to the private sector.

70 %? 70%. It's about $50 billion.

Do you believe for one moment they're not going to abuse this?

Do you believe for one instant that it isn't going to get to abuse?

There's abuse in everything.

They don't need to disclose what they're doing to Congress because they're not

the ones doing it. And they don't have to operate under the same rules.

The government has certain rules they have to abide by.

Corporate America does not have to abide by those rules so they can be much more

intrusive. And if this is all in the hands of the private sector, then we're

never going to lower the terror threat because the second we do, the second we

start sucking money out of their pockets.

That's right. The higher the terror threat, the more money they're making.

they can sell this information to anyone, so anybody could be spying on

It's like my best friend's father used to say to me all the time. He said,

let the camel get his nose under the tent.

Because rest assured, you're going to eventually have the whole camel in the

tent. And where does it stop?

That's the question I ask you. Where does it stop?

Coming up, Jesse Ventura demonstrates Big Brother's weapons for invading your

privacy. I can listen to conversations inside your car.

Remotely. Didn't ever have to touch it.

Then I would have to say that Big Brother's well on his way.

Then, he infiltrates the group that's turning everyday Americans into Big

Brother spies.

Big Brother is in the corner office where you work. Big Brother is your

And later, a top Big Brother spy cracks under Jesse's questioning.

Well, and there's, again, there's always people for abuse.

Jesse Ventura has exposed a big brother conspiracy between big government and

big business.

Phone calls are being tapped, people are being watched, and the government is

letting corporations do its spy work.

It's clear that the ones we entrust with our freedoms are selling out you and me

to the highest bidders. If that isn't scary, what is?

While Jesse's investigators seek out new leads, the governor gets a look at the

latest technology being used against us.

You always hear out there Big Brothers watching this and that. Now we've

contacted the different agencies of the government, and of course they're in

denial. I'd just like to ask you a few questions on the capabilities that you

know that are out there.

Woody Norris creates and develops the spyware that winds up on the open

For anyone who can afford it.

See that?

Yeah. Looks like a rock.

It is a rock. I can drive by your house, toss that in your front yard.

Yeah. It picks up your security code from your alarm, your cell phone number,

the code to your garage door opener.

How?

It's full of electronics.

On the inside of it? Yes. And you would have access to where you could literally

get in their house when they left and they would have no idea? Yes.

Who uses things like this?

Hopefully the good guys, alphabet agencies for sure.

What they do with it, they do with it. So if I came to you and paid you enough

money, you could produce a rock for me that I could throw in someone's yard and

be able to do all the things that you said?

If I were convinced you were worthy of my effort.

I want to tail a car, and I don't dare risk, because of guards or whatever the

situation, going up and planting a bug on the car.

How about putting a bug on a fly?

And when it lands on the back of your car, it sticks.

I have a GPS now.

It uplinks with milliwatts of power to a satellite.

I can now track your car without ever having touched it physically.

I can listen to conversations around your car, and if I do it right inside

car, remotely, you never have to touch it.

What else you got?

All right. Instead of hooking you up to a polygraph, I have a remote polygraph.

I can aim it at your body. Your blood pumping causes your chest to move about

three -tenths of a millimeter.

So I can get pulse and respiration and your blood pressure.

That's what they read with a polygraph. I can monitor that with ultrasound.

I did such a contract with one of those alphabet agencies.

It took me about a year to perfect it, but I built it, and it's functional.

So therefore, you'd be unaware that they had the ability to know whether you're

lying or not through a polygraph because you're not hooked up. Exactly. And what

could be better? Or what could be worse?

What else you got?

All right, I can put a sound in your head.

You'll hear it. No one else will. No one else will. This is called hypersonic

sound.

Instead of coming out of here like a speaker, the sound is made in the air.

And because it's made in the air, it's made right next to your ear.

And so it's intimate to you.

Want to see it? Yeah.

Turn on my CD player.

Okay.

Hear that? Yeah. How about this?

inside of your head what would this be used for someone's passing through a

security line and you want to determine if they're suspect so you can whisper to

them no one else will hear it that could drive you crazy couldn't it yes

that to me is big brother at its finest

They're not following me around. I don't carry any of them electronic things

they can tap into.

When I buy a car and it's got the North Star thing on it, the first thing I do

is disable it.

I don't want them to be able to sit up there and track where I'm driving, what

I'm doing. Well, what else can they do?

They can track you around the country. They can know where you're going, who

you're seeing, what you're doing. I don't think there's anything to this. I

think the fact that the government is trying to catch terrorists is a good

thing. So in other words...

The end justifies the means. Not always, but in this case. As long as they catch

a terrorist, that makes it okay to spy upon and lose our civil liberties and

rights here in America.

Not every civil liberty. I fully disagree with that. I am never going to

willing to give up my freedoms to be told they're going to make me safer. I

would rather take the chance on not being safe and still live free.

Governor, I found something that's a little bit disturbing.

It's called InfraGard, and it's made up of 30 ,000 ordinary U .S. citizens.

And what happens is the FBI gives them classified information, and they then

have to report back anything suspicious.

And the scary thing is, it could be anybody, even a member of your family,

you don't know they belong to this organization.

They're asking citizens to become profilers and rat out their neighbors?

fine. This is an outrage.

I am outraged. Is this Nazi Germany we're talking about? I mean, you know,

going to have kids ratting their parents, neighbors ratting against their

neighbors, and the government is setting all this up?

Coming up.

An insider exposes a Big Brother group that's even more dangerous than we'd

imagined. At least 32 ,000 business people would have extraordinary scary

powers, including using lethal force. Then, Jesse heads into the heartland to

confront the hometown spies face -to -face.

We self -watch, but isn't that the box watch in the house?

I understand it. And later...

The shocking revelations about the rewards they get for spying on you.

If you're a member of InfraGard, that puts you higher on the need to know

information than the average citizen. Apparently so.

What's happening is these enormous databases are being set up and created

these private sector corporations.

Your supermarket, if you use a frequent shopper card, they're recording every

stick of broccoli, every purchase you've made. They keep files on us?

Absolutely. These databases are so enormous that they're housed in

bunkers. That's how big they are. No kidding. Unbelievable amounts of

information. So imagine now your HMO denies your coverage. They cancel your

policy because they don't like the way you're eating at the supermarket.

And we all think we're just scanning. those cards for the discount, when in

reality they're creating these enormous databases. You're telling me I should go

in there and pay cash.

Absolutely, I do.

They want to have the ability to track you, marketers, governments, and indeed

criminals, obviously.

That's their vision of our future, is everything you do, everything you own,

every place you go will be trackable. And I've got to think, this is dastardly

when you think criminals could get that. Absolutely.

Conspiracy Theory continues next.

Jesse Ventura's investigation into the Big Brother conspiracy has led to a

called InfraGard, a partnership between the FBI and Main Street USA.

And it's led the governor to Madison, Wisconsin, to meet Matthew Rothschild.

Rothschild is editor of the Progressive magazine, a columnist, commentator, and

investigative reporter.

He's the one who infiltrated and exposed InfraGard's secret circles.

This is Big Brother in the business community working hand in glove with the

FBI. Rothschild explains that InfraGard was set up so the FBI and Homeland

Security could share information with local businessmen and law enforcement

groups.

Everyone united to protect the nation from crime and terror.

More than 350 of the top Fortune 500 companies are represented.

It's agriculture, it's computers, it's utilities, it's food industry, it's

transportation, it's banking, it's everything.

Who's qualified to be InfraGard? It's a very secretive club, and to get into the

club, you've got to be recommended by a member of the club. That's how it grows,

but it's grown astronomically. It used to be in November 2001 there were 1 ,700

members. Now there are 32 ,000 members, and there are chapters in every state.

So 32 ,000 members. of a group within the business community of America who

works with the FBI doing what?

Well, almost on a daily basis, they're exchanging information.

They can be talking about people they find suspicious, pass it on to the FBI,

and they get that secret information coming back from the FBI, too.

And so that's a little scary.

They're getting secret intelligence on almost a daily basis that the American

public isn't getting. So they're in the know in a way that we aren't in the

know.

Some of the information is secret, doesn't get out to the public. Some of

even doesn't get to our elected officials.

As a governor, you're going to like this because back in November of 2001, then

Governor Gray Davis of California. Sure, I knew Gray Davis.

Rothschild mentions the well -publicized scare when the governor announced a

terror threat.

to California bridges.

Davis' information came not from the FBI, but his brother, a member of

InfraGard. Why would a member of InfraGard get that information before an

elected official in a state with 35 million people?

Rothschild's whistleblower found even more reason to believe InfraGard goes

far grooming informants.

He was at a meeting where there's an FBI member and a Homeland Security member

telling him and the other business people in the room that there's going to

martial law in the United States.

Not if, but when. And when martial law comes down the pike, it's the

responsibility of the business owners to protect their little corner of the

infrastructure and that they have the right to use lethal force.

These people are not deputized.

They're under no official law enforcement.

They're volunteers. Never been trained. Never been trained. And yet they're told

by the FBI that if martial law were declared, they could deliver fatal blows

people. And it was confirmed by another InfraGard member that I talked to.

Then again, InfraGard members don't need lethal powers to destroy lives.

FBI Director Mueller said that they could basically tell the FBI about some

disgruntled employee they might have, and the FBI will go after that person.

we really want 32 ,000 business people just to be ratting out a disgruntled

employee? What you're saying to me, Matt, is this is truly Big Brother

This is one human being watching another and literally ratting them out to the

FBI. Yeah, Big Brother is in the corner office where you work. Big Brother is

your boss.

Jesse calls into his team.

He's not finished yet.

Yeah, look, okay, we got to deal with this InfraGard.

We need to get in and see them.

It's being set up, so I'm going to have the ability now to go to InfraGard and

get a face -to -face meeting to where I can ask them some of these questions

that I got on my mind.

Excellent.

Okay, I'm on my way.

The researchers work the official channels to get a meeting with the FBI.

They also begin reaching out to the many InfraGard chapters in cities across the

country. Jesse Ventura will face the citizen spies in their own hometown.

Coming up, Jesse Ventura storms the heartland and finds the neighbors who

spying on you.

If someone at the workplace has a different political viewpoint than you,

they're not going to be put on a watch list. No, no, no.

Then he finds out just how much power these watchdogs wield.

Tension for government to go beyond what it should be doing is always there.

Oklahoma City.

Home to a chapter of InfraGard, the group of citizens who spy on you and me

exchange for favors from the FBI.

The debate over InfraGard and Big Brother is all the more intense here.

This is where 168 people were killed in the terror bombing of the Federal

Building in April of 1995.

Jesse Ventura and his investigator, Alex Piper, visit the memorial where the

building once stood.

Wow.

It was a year after the Oklahoma City bombing that they started InfraGard.

That's interesting. I wonder if InfraGard could have prevented it.

And then it's time to get down to business.

After weeks of dodging denials and refusals.

InfraGard has offered up a member to face the governor.

We set up a meeting with Dan Bybee.

He's a local businessman who serves on the InfraGard board.

This is Dan Bybee, right?

Governor Jesse Ventura.

Good afternoon, Governor. My name is Dan Bybee. Hi, Dan. Nice to meet you. Nice

to meet you. I'd like to show you something inside. Sure.

Dan Bybee told us where to meet.

Nothing seemed unusual when we went inside.

But then he took us out back.

He wanted to talk in the playground.

I think Dan Bybee was trying to make a point.

19 of the Oklahoma City bombing victims were children.

So do you feel today that Oklahoma City is safer than it was 15 years ago? I

think we're better prepared for it in advance.

How would we prepare before it? The best we can do is keep track of what's going

on around in the community in terms of if we see events or activities that are

going on that could indicate a terrorist attack, then we can start reporting

those things or looking at those things. Who is we?

Well, the citizens. It starts at the average Joe citizen, John Key public, to

see those things and report the same to law enforcement officials.

I got to get to this. I was happily ignorant of something called InfraGard.

What is InfraGard?

InfraGard stands for infrastructure guarding or guardianship. Basically, it

an FBI initiative that was founded in Cleveland in 1996.

It has since spread to nationwide. We have 86 chapters in the country.

It is designed to be a communication channel between the owners and operators

those critical infrastructures that we've identified, or that President

identified, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. So that we have bankers,

have agriculture people, we have energy folks.

Dan Bybee is clearly nervous about where the interview is going, but the

governor keeps the InfraGard questions coming at a rapid pace.

Are there meetings of these groups? Yes, we have.

And you plan what?

Mostly we just have discussion meetings. We'll have an expert come in. It's

really a mishmash of topics.

Our Second Amendment gives us the right to bear arms and have a militia.

Correct. Is this a government militia? No, sir. It is not? No, sir. But yet

you're working for the government.

Well, we're working with the government. With the government. Yes, sir.

We are not afforded any more privileges and rights than any other citizen would

have. So you gain information no faster than anyone else? There is occasion

where if I'm an energy representative and I need to know that there's

going on in terms of attacking the grid elsewhere, then there's...

information acceleration there in that degree.

But, I mean, there are misunderstandings in the public. I understand there was a

gentleman here a couple years ago, 18 months ago, who claimed that his

membership card gave him the license to kill, so to speak.

Not if, but when martial law comes down the pike, they have the right to use

lethal force.

And that's totally absurd.

That's absolutely absurd. I have no more rights to carry a gun than you do.

Jesse keeps the InfraGard member on the defensive.

Do you carry an ID?

I do carry an ID. So there's an ID for this?

Yeah, a membership ID. It's primarily to get into meetings that have secured

information, for example. I start getting a little leery when I start

relationships between civilians and government.

Certainly, like any program, it has opportunity for abuse.

What do you do to ensure that won't happen, that there won't be abuse from

Well, there's checks and balances.

Between who?

self -watch within our membership, for example. But isn't that the box watch in

the in -house? I understand it. I knew you were going to say that.

InfraGard has tight ties with the FBI. My first thing wouldn't be if I saw

something strange to pick up and call the FBI.

Certainly their first route of communication could be 911 to their

dispatch center. It's not required to go through the FBI.

Obviously it does make sense to, you know, the local police could respond

perhaps more quickly. So that's certainly all right. Okay. And you try

InfraGard... Totally looking at the infrastructure.

That's correct.

You know, like if someone at the workplace has a different political

than you, they're not going to be.

put on a watch list. No, no, no. You're just looking at protection of our

infrastructure, which would be, you know, what would we use?

Dams. Yes, correct. Things of that nature. Agriculture, banking, energy,

transportation. All of that stuff would fall under it. Okay. From agriculture to

telecom, what else is there? He's admitting they've got an eye on

And certainly we will try to hold back any Big Brother is watching. Oh,

absolutely.

Do you believe him? I don't know. I mean, you can't very well interview a

and call him a liar.

You know, can you?

What's your gut telling you? My gut tells me that this is a group that needs

be watched and watched closely because it's ripe for abuse.

Jesse Venturi is not satisfied.

He's going higher up the InfraGard ladder.

To an InfraGard director who's more than a businessman with an important ID

card, this man carries a badge.

Coming up, Jesse confronts the InfraGard director and makes him crack.

Well, and there's, again, there's always the potential for abuse whenever you've

got power, whenever you've got government.

Jesse Ventura is in Oklahoma City to infiltrate a national group called

InfraGard. A big brother alliance between the FBI and corporate America.

His interrogation of a local InfraGard officer has only raised more questions

about this nest of hometown spies.

If people are granted powers and privileges, eventually they tend to

You're telling us that we have to keep an eye on them, but it seems like

the ones keeping an eye on us. Well, but I think it's vigilance of us to keep an

eye on them, too. Well, maybe this guy David Williams will get to tell us some

more.

If anyone can tear open the lid on InfraGard, it's David Williams.

Mr. Williams, nice to meet you. My pleasure. My pleasure. Williams is a

in the field. He has a 30 year background in law enforcement from the

police to two terms as a Texas sheriff.

He's an InfraGard director.

He's the face of Oklahoma City InfraGard.

David Williams is InfraGard personified.

So without a doubt, you're highly qualified.

In all parts of law enforcement and use of a weapon and everything you would do.

Absolutely. Because your whole career has been right in that line. A lot known

all my life. You're used to classified information because our police get it.

It's an everyday occurrence that happens all the time.

But as you've said, there are people involved in InfraGard that are bankers,

that are farmers, that are whatever, that are not used to dealing with,

classified things.

They're now receiving information that I can't get, correct?

Right. Why should they get information that an average citizen shouldn't get?

I haven't seen information that's so critical that it's... But it could be?

Well, there's always that possibility. But as far as the information that I've

seen coming through, yeah, there is always that possibility. So what you

is if you're a member of InfraGard...

That puts you higher on the need to know information than the average citizen.

Apparently so.

Williams has already admitted that unqualified, untrained spies get special

treatment in exchange for information.

He's about to go even further and contradict Dan Bybee.

As far as information back.

From the FBI, we receive emails that you have to log in to get to.

Most of it that I'm seeing is classified.

For example, the Mumbai attacks in India.

We received information internationally.

If I'm an energy representative and I need to know that there's something

on in terms of attacking the grids elsewhere, then there's an information

acceleration there.

Of an international thing? Correct, because of terrorism. Sure. And so we

received information about that that we got to look at before the media.

Let's say, for example, we'll go hypothetical.

that you've got someone out there who senses or learns that something out of

ordinary could quite happen here.

What's the procedure? Does he then get on the phone directly to the FBI?

Contact the advisor.

Now, what's the advisor? That'd be the FBI advisor.

Wait a minute. That's the exact opposite of what that Dan Bybee told me.

It's not required to go through the FBI.

Obviously, it does make sense to, you know, the local.

Police could respond perhaps more quickly. So that's certainly all right.

Go directly to the FBI advisor.

Yeah, you wouldn't, on something like that, be time sensitive.

Isn't that ripe for abuse?

If an individual decided they didn't like somebody and wanted to rat them out

and they called the FBI advisor and give them, for lack of term, a cock and bull

story, and then the FBI would come down on this other person? There's always the

potential for abuse whenever you've got power, whenever you've got government.

How would you respond to someone that would say, this is Big Brother watching

us? You know, as a member, people can always speculate.

Submit those kind of claims.

And again, the potential for government to go beyond what it should be

doing is always there.

Now it's the InfraGard director who's getting nervous.

He realizes he's let the cat out of the bag.

I've already interviewed another guy that says that InfraGard is allowed to

lethal.

Do you know anything about that?

Never have heard that. And you're on the board of directors. I'm on the board of

directors. I'm a deputy secretary. And I'm also a commission police reserve in

this area, too. And I have not heard anything.

He looks for a distraction and finds one.

Let me give you this brochure.

It's an overview of InfraGard.

The brochure stalls the questioning.

And then the director pulls out something else.

And literally hides behind the U .S. Constitution.

I'm a big believer in this, Governor.

I carry it with me.

And I'm sworn to protect that as a peace officer and just as a citizen of this

country. And so I think that what we're doing with InfraGard just helps to

ensure that and maintain the balance. And I'll say this to you, Sheriff, just

long as you don't step on that Bill of Rights while you're doing all this.

The InfraGard director has only confirmed the warnings about this group.

Its members are given crucial information that you and I are denied.

They get it in return for spying on us.

Despite numerous attempts and negotiations,

the FBI has refused all of the governor's requests for an interview.

Big Brother sounds like a paranoid fantasy, but I found out it's not.

Hey, I knew they were watching me when I was governor.

Back then, they looked like you or me.

But now, they're everywhere.

Surveillance cameras on street corners.

Every time you swipe your credit card.

As for InfraGard, it's a nice patriotic idea, keeping an eye out for terrorists.

But junior G -Men ID cards?

What a crock. It's all an invitation to snoop and snitch and get revenge.

Watch out.

Big Brother is everywhere.

I'm Jesse Ventura, and this is Conspiracy Theory.