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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:01,209 --> 00:00:03,350 We've all seen the famous videotape. 2 00:00:04,290 --> 00:00:05,950 It does look like you. 3 00:00:06,570 --> 00:00:07,570 That's the bad news. 4 00:00:08,150 --> 00:00:11,550 The good news is it's only from the side and the back. 5 00:00:11,770 --> 00:00:13,430 The face is invisible. 6 00:00:13,750 --> 00:00:17,250 Why is that good news, Jimmy? If the face were visible, the jury would see it 7 00:00:17,250 --> 00:00:18,250 wasn't me. 8 00:00:19,830 --> 00:00:20,830 Right. 9 00:00:22,250 --> 00:00:23,250 Are you ready? 10 00:00:23,910 --> 00:00:24,910 I guess. 11 00:00:27,230 --> 00:00:29,430 Is a person ever ready to stand trial for murder? 12 00:00:40,140 --> 00:00:41,140 I'm okay. 13 00:00:41,380 --> 00:00:42,380 You're sure? 14 00:00:44,060 --> 00:00:45,060 Yeah. 15 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:46,400 Now go home. 16 00:00:47,060 --> 00:00:48,560 Get a good night's sleep if you can. 17 00:00:50,100 --> 00:00:51,100 Tomorrow it starts. 18 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:56,840 Okay, 19 00:01:05,820 --> 00:01:06,820 see you tomorrow. 20 00:01:07,540 --> 00:01:08,540 Bobby. 21 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,240 You don't think we should be looking to cut a deal here? 22 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:16,620 There's no deal to be had. 23 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,520 We'd get manslaughter at best, which is out of the question. 24 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:20,980 Why is it out of the question? 25 00:01:21,580 --> 00:01:22,580 They got motive? 26 00:01:23,180 --> 00:01:24,480 Forensics put her at the scene. 27 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,480 That videotape gives them timing. The case got tougher, I agree. 28 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,140 But how can we accept a homicide conviction on this? 29 00:01:32,620 --> 00:01:33,820 Even if it's manslaughter? 30 00:01:34,100 --> 00:01:36,920 Bobby, you don't think she did it? 31 00:01:38,090 --> 00:01:40,510 I know she didn't do it. 32 00:01:42,370 --> 00:01:43,370 She's innocent. 33 00:01:45,450 --> 00:01:46,450 Okay. 34 00:02:39,060 --> 00:02:42,160 There's evidently some press out front, but they've agreed to let you come in 35 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:43,860 through the back. I think it's best we do that. 36 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:45,400 Okay. 37 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:48,440 Confident. 38 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:50,040 Remember? 39 00:02:50,700 --> 00:02:52,480 Oh, here we go. Great timing. 40 00:02:53,300 --> 00:02:54,300 What's wrong? 41 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:55,360 Rape crisis. 42 00:02:56,100 --> 00:02:58,100 Eugene, you're in charge. 43 00:03:04,420 --> 00:03:05,820 Lucy Hatcher, rape crisis. 44 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:07,200 Through that door. 45 00:03:29,770 --> 00:03:35,050 Miss Walters, I'm Lucy Hatcher from Rape Crisis. 46 00:03:36,890 --> 00:03:38,290 Thank you for coming. 47 00:03:39,370 --> 00:03:43,590 I'll, um, I'll just explain to you some of the procedures. 48 00:03:47,330 --> 00:03:49,750 The key thing here is trajectory. 49 00:03:49,970 --> 00:03:52,410 You can see it goes slightly downward. 50 00:03:52,690 --> 00:03:58,820 Now, typically in a suicide, when somebody puts a gun to his head, the 51 00:03:58,820 --> 00:03:59,820 would be upwards. 52 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,440 Specifically, Doctor, what did the trajectory here indicate? 53 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,840 That somebody was standing over him and shot him point -blank from slightly 54 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,080 behind, which would also account for why he fell forward. 55 00:04:12,180 --> 00:04:16,040 Typically, contact wounds to the head are more times than not suicides. 56 00:04:16,260 --> 00:04:19,899 That is correct, but... Thank you, Doctor. And, Doctor, can you state to a 57 00:04:19,899 --> 00:04:25,960 medical certainty this was not a suicide? We can't rule it out to a 58 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:27,220 certainty. Thank you, Doctor. 59 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,200 And as I read the coroner's incidental report, I see listed under cause of 60 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,300 death, probable suicide. 61 00:04:33,980 --> 00:04:36,140 Yes, but we later concluded otherwise. 62 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,300 Yes, and was that subsequent conclusion based strictly on autopsy findings? 63 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,340 Or did you take into consideration other circumstantial or physical evidence 64 00:04:45,340 --> 00:04:46,800 supplied to you by the police? 65 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:49,800 We considered other evidence as well. 66 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:51,740 Thank you, Doctor. 67 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:58,480 I don't understand. 68 00:04:58,600 --> 00:04:59,720 You plan to put Mr. 69 00:04:59,940 --> 00:05:01,240 Potter's reputation on trial? 70 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:08,800 No, we don't. We just... If he had an affair with Ms. Defoe, did 71 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:10,980 he have any other affairs to your knowledge? 72 00:05:11,340 --> 00:05:12,340 Not to my knowledge. 73 00:05:13,020 --> 00:05:17,140 But it's not as if he would tell me. No, but as his secretary, you would know 74 00:05:17,140 --> 00:05:19,560 the calls he got and see who walked in his office. 75 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,720 Well, the only person was Ms. Defoe. 76 00:05:28,190 --> 00:05:29,450 Hey. Hey, Helen. 77 00:05:30,410 --> 00:05:32,870 Sybil, this is Helen Gamble. She's a district attorney. 78 00:05:33,510 --> 00:05:34,510 How you doing? 79 00:05:35,390 --> 00:05:38,810 Well, all things considered, Philadelphia seems nice. 80 00:05:39,330 --> 00:05:40,330 Yeah. 81 00:05:40,650 --> 00:05:42,690 Well, I do have some good news. 82 00:05:43,190 --> 00:05:44,290 We caught the man. 83 00:05:44,810 --> 00:05:45,810 You did? 84 00:05:45,910 --> 00:05:47,730 He posed as a delivery boy. 85 00:05:50,410 --> 00:05:54,910 Listen, do you think you could possibly look at a police lineup? 86 00:05:56,100 --> 00:06:00,600 Be in a room with him. No, a separate room, and he wouldn't be able to see 87 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,740 I could be right with you at all times. 88 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,460 Oh, God, I don't know. 89 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:07,160 It would only take a minute. 90 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,720 It was two nights before the accident that I discovered them. Your husband and 91 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:32,860 defendant? Yes. 92 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,320 I was leaving for the weekend to visit my sister. 93 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:36,960 My flight was canceled. 94 00:06:37,900 --> 00:06:38,980 I came back home. 95 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:41,480 She was there. 96 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,640 And what happened then, Mrs. Potter? 97 00:06:44,060 --> 00:06:47,320 Well, Bernard and I had a rather massive argument. 98 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:52,900 We, um... Two days later, we were still fighting. 99 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:55,880 And it was during an argument while driving. 100 00:06:56,840 --> 00:06:58,160 That the accident happened. 101 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:04,500 As a result of this automobile accident, you lost the use of your legs? 102 00:07:05,020 --> 00:07:08,900 Yes. How did your husband react to your injury? 103 00:07:09,860 --> 00:07:11,780 He felt extremely guilty. 104 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:18,100 Shortly after, he terminated his relationship with Ms. Defoe. 105 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,720 Did you ever talk to her? 106 00:07:21,860 --> 00:07:23,220 On a couple of occasions. 107 00:07:23,860 --> 00:07:25,660 Could you describe her demeanor? 108 00:07:26,170 --> 00:07:32,010 She just seemed urgent to the point of being frantic. So from your observation, 109 00:07:32,230 --> 00:07:33,930 she didn't take the breakup very well? 110 00:07:34,730 --> 00:07:35,730 No. 111 00:07:36,370 --> 00:07:42,470 Now, Mrs. Potter, the defense has speculated that your husband possibly 112 00:07:42,470 --> 00:07:45,810 own life. I can't believe he would commit suicide. 113 00:07:46,310 --> 00:07:52,730 On the day of his death, did he seem despondent or... I will not sit here and 114 00:07:52,730 --> 00:07:54,790 proclaim he was a happy man the day he died. 115 00:07:58,909 --> 00:08:04,170 But to the extent I can say that I did know my husband, 116 00:08:04,330 --> 00:08:08,530 I cannot see him capable of suicide. 117 00:08:17,310 --> 00:08:19,310 You have to cross her easy, Jimmy. 118 00:08:19,550 --> 00:08:21,990 Otherwise, we'll completely alienate the jury. 119 00:08:22,450 --> 00:08:23,450 I know. 120 00:08:23,490 --> 00:08:24,830 I don't think she hurt us too badly. 121 00:08:29,070 --> 00:08:30,070 He is beautiful. 122 00:08:30,270 --> 00:08:32,110 I think he's sad enough. 123 00:08:34,350 --> 00:08:35,429 Any word from Rebecca? 124 00:08:35,809 --> 00:08:36,890 She's still doing interviews. 125 00:08:37,450 --> 00:08:38,809 I'll see if she's called in. 126 00:08:42,030 --> 00:08:44,330 This is how my life was supposed to have turned out. 127 00:08:47,030 --> 00:08:49,230 I grew up in a family where family was everything. 128 00:08:51,070 --> 00:08:56,470 So when people look at me like I'm a murderer, I can only control myself with 129 00:08:56,470 --> 00:08:57,490 the fact that they have it wrong. 130 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,840 I feel the accusation of being a homewrecker. 131 00:09:03,940 --> 00:09:05,280 It really hurts. 132 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:08,540 Does it have it right? 133 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:16,320 Hey. 134 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:17,760 Hey. 135 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:19,820 Sorry I'm late. The depo ran over. 136 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:22,200 Hey, buddy. 137 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:23,600 Come here. 138 00:09:26,060 --> 00:09:27,060 Hi. 139 00:09:27,540 --> 00:09:28,580 How'd the first day go? 140 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:29,939 Not too bad. 141 00:09:29,940 --> 00:09:31,960 But their big guns come tomorrow. 142 00:09:32,940 --> 00:09:34,460 Probably have a late night tonight. 143 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:36,880 Okay. 144 00:09:37,460 --> 00:09:38,720 Late night for Jimmy, too? 145 00:09:39,660 --> 00:09:40,660 Probably. 146 00:09:49,860 --> 00:09:55,240 At the time of your husband's death, you testified these were not happy times. 147 00:09:55,620 --> 00:09:58,810 In fact... He was being treated for depression, was he? 148 00:09:59,190 --> 00:10:04,030 Yes. And you also spoke of his guilt for both the affair and the accident. 149 00:10:04,450 --> 00:10:05,450 Yes. 150 00:10:06,390 --> 00:10:09,870 What is or was your favorite hobby? 151 00:10:11,750 --> 00:10:12,750 Walking. 152 00:10:13,450 --> 00:10:18,510 I'm told you'd often drive into the city and walk for hours. Is that correct? 153 00:10:18,910 --> 00:10:23,290 Yes. Did your husband once say to people he wished he'd been killed in the 154 00:10:23,290 --> 00:10:25,350 accident? He said... 155 00:10:25,970 --> 00:10:29,370 He'd rather he lost his life than me lose my leg, yes. 156 00:10:31,150 --> 00:10:33,570 But I never took it to mean he was suicidal. 157 00:10:34,390 --> 00:10:35,390 But he said it. 158 00:10:35,930 --> 00:10:37,810 He wished he'd been killed. 159 00:10:44,670 --> 00:10:48,530 Now, if at any time you feel this is too much... Okay. 160 00:10:50,190 --> 00:10:51,190 Bring them in. 161 00:10:59,980 --> 00:11:00,980 You okay? 162 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:04,020 Yes. Number one, please step forward. 163 00:11:07,980 --> 00:11:08,980 No. 164 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,500 Step back, number one. Number two, please step forward. 165 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:16,800 No. 166 00:11:17,700 --> 00:11:18,900 Number two, step back. 167 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,060 Number three, step forward. 168 00:11:33,180 --> 00:11:36,720 Knitwalter, do you recognize this man? 169 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:39,440 No. 170 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,060 Are you sure it isn't him? 171 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:55,220 I'll check. 172 00:11:58,660 --> 00:12:00,700 She recognized him, Lucy. 173 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:03,680 She must still be in trauma. 174 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:05,700 It was probably too soon to do this. 175 00:12:06,580 --> 00:12:10,260 Look, our ability to put this guy away depends on her. 176 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,060 Without the ID, I can't even file. 177 00:12:13,540 --> 00:12:15,380 You didn't find any forensic evidence? 178 00:12:16,620 --> 00:12:20,960 We found three hairs in the victim's office, all belonging to the defendant. 179 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,700 Now, the defendant certainly admits to being in that office in the past. 180 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:29,100 The cleaning crew informed us that the floors are vacuumed every single night. 181 00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:32,960 Which led you to conclude... Ms. Defoe was there that night. 182 00:12:33,340 --> 00:12:35,080 Any other evidence pointing to that? 183 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:40,040 Telephone records show that Mr. Potter placed a call to her 40 minutes prior to 184 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:40,779 the murder. 185 00:12:40,780 --> 00:12:43,180 Then, of course, the videotape. 186 00:12:44,820 --> 00:12:46,420 That's the clearest image we have. 187 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,200 This was taken when? Three minutes after the gunshot was heard. 188 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:55,620 Now, Detective, is there any footage of this person going into the stairwell? 189 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,220 No. Our theory is she probably went up in the elevator. 190 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:04,560 So you think it's likely that this person went up the elevator and down the 191 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:05,640 stairwell? Correct. 192 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:12,580 Detective, are you able to tell from this video how tall this person is? Yes. 193 00:13:12,980 --> 00:13:17,340 Breaking it down to scale, we determined this person is 5 feet 4 inches tall. 194 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,760 How tall is the defendant, if you know? 195 00:13:20,420 --> 00:13:22,040 5 feet 4 inches tall. 196 00:13:23,740 --> 00:13:27,380 The two weeks before, she would come in unannounced. 197 00:13:27,900 --> 00:13:29,240 Demand to see Mr. Potter. 198 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:31,100 She'd often call a lot. 199 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,860 Could you describe Katie Defoe's demeanor during these visits? 200 00:13:35,620 --> 00:13:36,660 She was upset. 201 00:13:37,260 --> 00:13:38,400 She seemed hurt. 202 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:45,760 Why do you look so doomed? 203 00:13:46,220 --> 00:13:47,520 You knew about all this evidence. 204 00:13:47,940 --> 00:13:48,940 We're not doomed. 205 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,580 But Katie, if you went into that building that night... 206 00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:02,920 I'm not accusing you of the murder, but if you went into that building at all, I 207 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,380 prefer we admit it and deal with it. 208 00:14:07,620 --> 00:14:09,780 I did not go into the building. 209 00:14:11,740 --> 00:14:13,080 Jimmy, can you give us a second? 210 00:14:29,770 --> 00:14:30,770 I think I need to explain. 211 00:14:32,430 --> 00:14:39,290 Over the last few months, I've... I've grown fond of you, 212 00:14:39,350 --> 00:14:40,350 Katie. 213 00:14:43,230 --> 00:14:48,590 Lately, uh... I tell you this not as some kind of advance. 214 00:14:48,850 --> 00:14:50,210 I'm very happily married. 215 00:14:51,210 --> 00:14:52,630 I love my wife totally. 216 00:14:57,270 --> 00:14:58,930 But since I do have feelings, 217 00:15:02,060 --> 00:15:05,900 I have to be conscious of the reality that my judgment could be colored. 218 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,700 It's for that reason I just asked you that question. 219 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:17,740 So that if trust you feel isn't so much for you, that it is for my own 220 00:15:17,740 --> 00:15:18,740 objectiveness. 221 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:27,840 Do I need to get a different lawyer? 222 00:15:38,570 --> 00:15:45,270 No. When I saw him, a sudden thought of having to sit through the 223 00:15:45,270 --> 00:15:48,450 trial, looking at him every day. 224 00:15:50,390 --> 00:15:52,990 I just can't do it. 225 00:15:53,290 --> 00:15:55,730 You don't have to apologize for being afraid. 226 00:15:56,930 --> 00:15:58,750 It's not just fear, Lucy. 227 00:15:59,950 --> 00:16:00,950 I'm 83. 228 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,400 I haven't many years to live. 229 00:16:04,100 --> 00:16:08,320 I don't want to spend one of them embroiled. 230 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:18,300 I think I could survive this best if I could somehow 231 00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:24,380 bring myself to forgive him and move on. 232 00:16:25,260 --> 00:16:26,260 Okay. 233 00:16:28,020 --> 00:16:29,480 Anyway, I can help you. 234 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,220 You could make him apologize. 235 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,940 I've been a police criminologist for 11 years. 236 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,360 And what findings, if any, did you make, Doctor? This was not a suicide. 237 00:16:46,100 --> 00:16:49,860 Can you tell the court what psychological evidence led you to this 238 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:55,020 In the days leading up to the death, Mr. Potter was very driven at work. 239 00:16:55,340 --> 00:16:57,940 Even productive. He was meeting deadlines. 240 00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:03,700 This kind of efficiency belies the notion of a man intending to end his 241 00:17:04,060 --> 00:17:10,119 He was getting therapy, both personally and marital counseling. This again 242 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:14,740 suggests that he was looking to heal, move ahead, not die. 243 00:17:15,260 --> 00:17:19,400 The main thing... He left no note. 244 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:25,380 If guilt is the motivating factor for suicide, in my experience, there's 245 00:17:25,380 --> 00:17:26,380 always a note. 246 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:32,000 Doctor, you have known cases where suicides have not been planned out. The 247 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,140 victim acts on a sudden decision. 248 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,720 Yes. Even in cases where people are on the mend, getting help, productive at 249 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,540 work. That's not the usual. But it's been known to happen. 250 00:17:41,780 --> 00:17:43,120 People just snap. 251 00:17:43,420 --> 00:17:48,640 Those cases usually involve schizophrenia or chemical problems. 252 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:49,800 indicated with Mr. Potter. 253 00:17:50,020 --> 00:17:50,899 But it's happened. 254 00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:51,900 Of course. 255 00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:54,780 There's anecdotal evidence for almost everything. 256 00:17:55,220 --> 00:17:56,220 But... Thank you. 257 00:17:56,510 --> 00:18:00,050 I'd like to finish my response. You answered my question. No, I'm telling 258 00:18:00,050 --> 00:18:01,050 haven't answered it. 259 00:18:01,710 --> 00:18:05,970 Is suicide possible here? Of course it is. Anything's possible. 260 00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:10,990 But based on my 17 years as a trained professional dealing with this very 261 00:18:10,990 --> 00:18:14,570 question, I am adamant in my belief that this man was murdered. 262 00:18:15,130 --> 00:18:16,750 It's not even a difficult call. 263 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,220 Scared, Bobby. We haven't even put on our defense yet. But our whole defense 264 00:18:25,220 --> 00:18:26,220 basically my word. 265 00:18:26,700 --> 00:18:29,220 The way the jurors are looking at me... What do we say about panic? 266 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,800 We can't have panic. 267 00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:35,440 What if I get scared during my testimony? It might make me look guilty. 268 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:37,860 What if I get nervous and I can't remember? 269 00:18:38,260 --> 00:18:39,260 Hey, hey, hey. 270 00:18:50,860 --> 00:18:55,560 Jimmy, tell Rebecca to revisit Potter's therapist. Remind him privilege doesn't 271 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:56,700 survive his patient's death. 272 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,760 I think she did that. Tell her to try harder. 273 00:19:00,740 --> 00:19:04,180 This man was treating the guy for depression. He's bound to have something 274 00:19:04,180 --> 00:19:04,879 can use. 275 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,480 If he doesn't agree, slap him with a summons. I want him in that chair. 276 00:19:19,150 --> 00:19:21,070 The breakup was very painful. 277 00:19:21,810 --> 00:19:22,990 I don't deny that. 278 00:19:23,570 --> 00:19:27,270 We've heard testimony that you repeatedly tried to change his mind. 279 00:19:28,450 --> 00:19:32,110 That you would show up at his office unannounced. 280 00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:33,470 I did. 281 00:19:34,650 --> 00:19:35,730 I was hurting. 282 00:19:36,830 --> 00:19:41,430 In the days leading up to Bernard's death, did you notice any suicidal 283 00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:44,930 tendencies? The only strange thing was the phone call. 284 00:19:45,550 --> 00:19:47,150 What phone call was that? 285 00:19:47,850 --> 00:19:51,590 About 40 minutes prior to his death, he telephoned me. 286 00:19:53,030 --> 00:19:54,950 He said he would never see me again. 287 00:19:56,010 --> 00:19:59,950 He said goodbye, and he hung up. 288 00:20:02,510 --> 00:20:05,410 It seemed very odd, and his voice sounded slightly erratic. 289 00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:07,750 What did you do then? 290 00:20:08,010 --> 00:20:09,070 I tried to call him back. 291 00:20:09,630 --> 00:20:11,830 The call didn't go through, and I never got him. 292 00:20:12,750 --> 00:20:16,350 And the next thing, I'm told he's dead. 293 00:20:19,660 --> 00:20:25,780 Ms. Defoe, did you go to Bernard Potter's building that night? 294 00:20:26,340 --> 00:20:30,180 I absolutely did not. Did you go anywhere that night? 295 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:31,640 No, I stayed at home. 296 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:36,100 You're sitting in this courtroom today, accused of murder. 297 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:43,380 I committed adultery with Bernard Potter, for which I'm very much ashamed. 298 00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:47,700 And as I said, I feel guilty. 299 00:20:50,570 --> 00:20:54,330 And I take responsibility for what happened to his wife, but I didn't kill 300 00:20:55,790 --> 00:20:58,270 I could never be capable of such a crime with anyone. 301 00:20:59,930 --> 00:21:01,590 Especially someone that I loved. 302 00:21:08,810 --> 00:21:10,230 So it was him? 303 00:21:10,530 --> 00:21:11,530 Yes. 304 00:21:11,730 --> 00:21:15,710 And maybe in time she'll change her mind, but for now she just doesn't want 305 00:21:15,710 --> 00:21:19,110 ordeal of a trial. Well, she'd only have to be there for her testimony. 306 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:20,980 But he'd have to be in the room, right? 307 00:21:22,740 --> 00:21:24,380 And she wants him to apologize? 308 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:26,720 What are you hatching up? 309 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,700 We get that apology on tape. We don't need her ID. 310 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:35,680 Go tell him he'll be made by the woman unless he apologizes. 311 00:21:39,180 --> 00:21:43,640 So you just happened to get a very strange call from Bernard Potter shortly 312 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:44,640 before his death. 313 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:46,720 Never going to see you again. 314 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:48,160 Goodbye. 315 00:21:48,620 --> 00:21:50,690 Yeah. And you tried to call him back? 316 00:21:51,230 --> 00:21:52,230 Several times. 317 00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:55,650 Why are there no phone records of any such return calls? 318 00:21:56,130 --> 00:22:00,510 Because the message center picks up after the sixth call, and I typically 319 00:22:00,510 --> 00:22:01,510 up after five. 320 00:22:01,790 --> 00:22:02,790 I see. 321 00:22:03,610 --> 00:22:06,250 Ever take a lesson in how to shoot a gun? 322 00:22:08,070 --> 00:22:09,610 Yes. When? 323 00:22:10,650 --> 00:22:13,770 About a month before Bernard Potter's death. 324 00:22:14,150 --> 00:22:16,870 Just thought it might be wise to know how to shoot a gun. 325 00:22:17,290 --> 00:22:20,190 A lot of women look into personal protection, Mr. Walsh. 326 00:22:22,250 --> 00:22:23,490 You say that isn't you. 327 00:22:24,210 --> 00:22:28,730 It isn't. You've been seen wearing that type of overcoat many times, haven't 328 00:22:28,730 --> 00:22:29,730 you, Mr. Faux? 329 00:22:30,450 --> 00:22:35,470 Thousands and thousands of women in Boston wear that style of overcoat. 330 00:22:35,870 --> 00:22:36,910 What happened to yours? 331 00:22:37,290 --> 00:22:38,310 We couldn't find it. 332 00:22:40,450 --> 00:22:41,710 I threw it out. 333 00:22:42,830 --> 00:22:43,830 When? 334 00:22:45,050 --> 00:22:46,190 I have no idea. 335 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,020 I buy a lot of new clothes and I throw out the old ones. 336 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:51,320 Where'd you throw it out? 337 00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:55,040 Just in the garbage. 338 00:22:55,340 --> 00:22:57,800 You didn't give it to a friend or the Salvation Army? 339 00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:59,560 You just threw it away? 340 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,700 Yes. There are witnesses that have seen you wearing that coat as recently as a 341 00:23:04,700 --> 00:23:05,840 few weeks before the shooting. 342 00:23:06,060 --> 00:23:09,320 You had a coat like that shortly before the murder. 343 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,060 It couldn't be found after the murder. 344 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,080 I'll say it one more time. We have to plead this. 345 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,280 What else did Potter's therapist say? 346 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:30,600 Just that. 347 00:23:30,620 --> 00:23:35,780 But if he's called, he will reject the idea of suicide, so I don't think he's 348 00:23:35,780 --> 00:23:36,780 worth it. 349 00:23:39,140 --> 00:23:41,260 I'm going to call him. It's too dangerous. 350 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,600 You just saw what happened in there. Even so, you don't start winging it 351 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:46,600 through a trial. 352 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:47,840 Come on. 353 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,440 Bobby, I agree with Jimmy. 354 00:23:58,190 --> 00:24:00,350 I'd have to let him back into my home? 355 00:24:00,670 --> 00:24:04,610 With me here and the police in adjoining apartments, also in the hall. 356 00:24:05,650 --> 00:24:07,210 I promise you'll be safe. 357 00:24:07,730 --> 00:24:08,730 Oh. 358 00:24:10,090 --> 00:24:11,110 I don't know. 359 00:24:11,910 --> 00:24:13,270 It's totally your decision. 360 00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:15,930 And I understand if you say no. 361 00:24:16,710 --> 00:24:22,730 I'm just saying if your fear really is a long trial, it'll only take a few 362 00:24:22,730 --> 00:24:25,970 minutes. You'll get your apology and you'll put him in jail. 363 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,360 And you'll be here with me every minute? 364 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,280 He was extremely guilt -ridden over the pain he caused his wife. 365 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:35,640 Let's be candid. 366 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,100 You don't think it was a suicide? 367 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,460 I don't think he was remotely suicidal. 368 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:46,080 Dr. Papp, during your therapy with Bernard Potter, he discussed his affair 369 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:47,080 Katie Defoe. 370 00:24:47,100 --> 00:24:52,800 He did? Did he ever discuss having an affair with anybody else around the time 371 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:53,800 of his death? 372 00:24:58,840 --> 00:24:59,880 Yes. Who? 373 00:25:01,260 --> 00:25:03,200 His secretary, Michelle Farrell. 374 00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:12,160 When did this affair end, if you know? 375 00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:13,500 Objection. Hearsay. 376 00:25:14,060 --> 00:25:17,980 Overruled. When did Mr. Potter's affair with Miss Farrell end? 377 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,320 About a week before his death. 378 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:22,280 Thank you. 379 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:26,580 Mr. Walsh. 380 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,400 I have no questions, but reserve the right to recall. 381 00:25:30,660 --> 00:25:31,800 But this may step down. 382 00:25:32,620 --> 00:25:34,800 The defense recalls Michelle Farrell. 383 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,840 Your Honor, I'd like some time in light of this new information. 384 00:25:38,220 --> 00:25:39,220 We'll break for the day. 385 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,320 Resume tomorrow with Ms. Farrell. 386 00:25:46,820 --> 00:25:49,280 If anything happens, we'll be in in three seconds. 387 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,960 Okay. Well, I'll be out in three seconds, so don't worry. 388 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:53,200 Good luck. 389 00:26:05,930 --> 00:26:09,890 Mr. Macklin, my name is Lucy Hatcher. I'm from Rape Crisis. 390 00:26:11,030 --> 00:26:13,290 I'm the counselor for the elderly woman you raped. 391 00:26:13,770 --> 00:26:15,150 I don't know what you're talking about. 392 00:26:16,010 --> 00:26:18,030 I think you do. 393 00:26:18,990 --> 00:26:21,070 She made you in a police lineup yesterday. 394 00:26:22,090 --> 00:26:25,850 Only so far, she's keeping it to herself since as a Christian woman, she 395 00:26:25,850 --> 00:26:26,850 believes in forgiveness. 396 00:26:28,050 --> 00:26:29,050 You got lucky. 397 00:26:30,210 --> 00:26:32,790 But she only plans to forgive you if you repent. 398 00:26:34,410 --> 00:26:35,430 You know her address. 399 00:26:35,850 --> 00:26:39,270 Show up tomorrow at noon, tell the woman you're sorry, and be sorry. 400 00:26:40,110 --> 00:26:41,330 She goes to the police. 401 00:26:53,490 --> 00:26:55,530 So you're going to accuse the secretary? 402 00:26:57,150 --> 00:26:58,410 I'm going to throw it out there. 403 00:26:58,730 --> 00:27:01,310 She doesn't have a complete alibi, so who knows? 404 00:27:01,950 --> 00:27:03,170 It seems a little desperate. 405 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,660 Well, we are desperate, Lindsay. I mean, Katie didn't do so well in the business 406 00:27:07,660 --> 00:27:08,660 of the overcoat. 407 00:27:08,980 --> 00:27:10,740 Did you ask her what she did with the overcoat? 408 00:27:10,940 --> 00:27:12,000 She was asked three times. 409 00:27:12,220 --> 00:27:13,220 She threw it out. 410 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,300 No, I don't mean on the stand. 411 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,080 I mean after. 412 00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:18,700 In private. 413 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:21,960 You didn't ask? 414 00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:24,020 I believe she threw it out. 415 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:28,960 What? 416 00:27:29,940 --> 00:27:31,360 Are you involved with her, Bobby? 417 00:27:34,629 --> 00:27:39,250 What? Look, I mean, it might just be my hormones. I'm sorry, but I just get this 418 00:27:39,250 --> 00:27:40,590 weird feeling that something's going on. 419 00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:43,450 The way you just believe her. 420 00:27:44,170 --> 00:27:49,910 You believe something's going on? I'm just... Wondering, Lindsay? 421 00:27:54,050 --> 00:27:55,050 I'm sorry. 422 00:27:58,290 --> 00:27:59,690 You know me better than that. 423 00:27:59,970 --> 00:28:01,370 I know. I'm just... 424 00:28:03,250 --> 00:28:04,390 Maybe I'm just fried. 425 00:28:21,390 --> 00:28:24,610 Why didn't you tell the police about your affair with Mr. Potter? 426 00:28:25,010 --> 00:28:26,050 It wasn't relevant. 427 00:28:26,290 --> 00:28:29,350 You break up with him a week before he's found dead? 428 00:28:29,550 --> 00:28:30,550 It wasn't relevant? 429 00:28:31,070 --> 00:28:35,950 No. You were asked point blank by Rebecca Washington, seated right over 430 00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:39,610 whether Mr. Potter was having any other affairs, and you answered to the best of 431 00:28:39,610 --> 00:28:40,670 your knowledge, no. 432 00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:42,670 It's my private life. 433 00:28:43,010 --> 00:28:45,410 Miss Farrell, did you kill your boss? 434 00:28:46,130 --> 00:28:48,630 Objection. You had the opportunity, the motive. 435 00:28:49,130 --> 00:28:50,230 How tall are you? 436 00:28:50,450 --> 00:28:51,449 This is ridiculous. 437 00:28:51,450 --> 00:28:53,150 How tall are you? 438 00:28:54,390 --> 00:28:55,790 I'm 5 '4". 439 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,480 Your Honor, with the court's permission, I'd like the witness to step out of the 440 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:02,740 witness chair for a demonstration. 441 00:29:03,020 --> 00:29:04,020 I object. 442 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,320 Ms. Farrell, please step out. 443 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:13,800 Stand just like this, please. 444 00:29:16,860 --> 00:29:20,040 Could you put this out, please? I object to this grandstanding. 445 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,100 Overruled. Ms. Farrell, put the coat on. 446 00:29:27,790 --> 00:29:28,790 And these glasses, please. 447 00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:34,190 And the wig. 448 00:29:38,490 --> 00:29:39,490 Katie? 449 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:12,440 From where I'm standing, I see reasonable doubt. 450 00:30:21,260 --> 00:30:22,340 What happens now? 451 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,800 They cross her, establish her alibi. 452 00:30:26,060 --> 00:30:27,060 She has one? 453 00:30:28,260 --> 00:30:31,680 She was at a movie and can account for most of the night, not all of it. 454 00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:34,300 How'd it play? 455 00:30:36,140 --> 00:30:37,140 Honest. 456 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:39,160 A little desperate. 457 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,300 It could blow up in your face. 458 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,340 All I need is one juror. 459 00:30:44,620 --> 00:30:45,980 You and Perry Mason. 460 00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:00,080 I don't want to hear their crap in front of the client. You asked my opinion in 461 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,140 front of the client. You have a problem. Do I have a problem? 462 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:04,700 I've got a big problem. 463 00:31:05,790 --> 00:31:08,870 I think you have feelings for this woman and you're not seeing straight. 464 00:31:09,290 --> 00:31:10,290 That's my problem. 465 00:31:27,490 --> 00:31:29,250 Is it just a game to you, Mr. Donald? 466 00:31:31,270 --> 00:31:32,310 Somebody died here. 467 00:31:33,210 --> 00:31:34,210 That was real. 468 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,040 It's not a game. 469 00:31:56,980 --> 00:31:57,980 Are you sure you're ready? 470 00:31:58,480 --> 00:31:59,480 I'm fine. 471 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:14,899 Are you okay? 472 00:32:14,900 --> 00:32:15,900 Yeah. 473 00:32:22,820 --> 00:32:25,660 Look, I know you think I did it, but I didn't do it. 474 00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:31,660 But I'm sorry for what happened to you. 475 00:32:36,140 --> 00:32:38,600 Is that your idea of seeking forgiveness? 476 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:42,940 You don't think I know? 477 00:32:43,690 --> 00:32:44,990 I looked you in the eye. 478 00:32:45,810 --> 00:32:48,590 You don't think I know you're the man who raped me? 479 00:32:49,650 --> 00:32:50,650 I'm sorry. 480 00:32:52,530 --> 00:32:53,610 You're sorry? 481 00:32:55,530 --> 00:32:57,310 My husband was a minister. 482 00:32:57,850 --> 00:32:59,350 Bet you didn't know that. 483 00:33:01,290 --> 00:33:04,790 Did you ever think you were raping a minister's wife? 484 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,720 I know you would have liked to have the confession first. 485 00:33:34,580 --> 00:33:37,280 I just didn't see the need for it. 486 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,260 None of the police experts could rule out suicide. 487 00:33:47,940 --> 00:33:50,540 The man was profoundly depressed. 488 00:33:51,100 --> 00:33:56,700 He crippled his wife, a woman who loved walking like she loved life. 489 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,100 He was being clinically treated for this depression. 490 00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:07,320 None of us, none of you can eliminate the possibility that Bernard Potter took 491 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:08,319 his own life. 492 00:34:08,739 --> 00:34:13,000 The only reason the police arrested Katie Defoe was because she seemingly 493 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,520 motive. Pairs of hers were found at the scene. A woman who looked like her was 494 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:18,540 seen leaving the building. 495 00:34:18,780 --> 00:34:22,360 But Michelle Farrell would also have motive. 496 00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:24,780 She too was having an affair. 497 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,159 And how easy. 498 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,060 It would have been for her to frame Katie Defoe. 499 00:34:29,659 --> 00:34:33,420 She could have collected hairs from my client's hairbrush and planted them, 500 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:38,340 dressed up to look like her. We all just saw the resemblance, and she can't 501 00:34:38,340 --> 00:34:42,699 account for her whereabouts for the hour immediately preceding Mr. Potter's 502 00:34:42,699 --> 00:34:47,219 death. She says she was home, just like Katie insists she was home. 503 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,639 But we can't know. 504 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,000 Add to that the fact that we can't even know it was homicide at all. 505 00:34:56,590 --> 00:34:59,570 You've certainly got reasonable doubt. 506 00:35:02,950 --> 00:35:09,330 Our detectives, our forensic specialists, our psychological experts, 507 00:35:09,330 --> 00:35:13,470 witnesses, all of them were unequivocal in their consensus. 508 00:35:13,810 --> 00:35:16,210 This was a homicide. 509 00:35:16,490 --> 00:35:19,490 There was no gunshot residue on the victim's hands. 510 00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:23,850 The trajectory shows that he was shot from above, from slightly behind. 511 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,640 which is totally inconsistent with suicide. 512 00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:28,900 Bernard Potter was murdered. 513 00:35:30,060 --> 00:35:32,280 It's obvious, and the defense knows it. 514 00:35:32,580 --> 00:35:36,400 That's why they resorted to that ridiculous last -second cloak -and 515 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,720 stunt of getting Mr. Potter's secretary to dress up in the courtroom. 516 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,520 True, we did not know of Ms. Farrell's affair with the victim, but she is not a 517 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:45,600 suspect in this case. 518 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,160 Mr. Donald is throwing her up as a red herring because he struck out on the 519 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:51,160 suicide pitch. 520 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:52,920 The evidence here. 521 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:54,680 is overwhelming. 522 00:35:56,780 --> 00:35:58,480 Mr. Faux had motive. 523 00:35:59,100 --> 00:36:03,860 She had been acting urgently, frantically, showing up at the victim's 524 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,920 desperately trying to continue the relationship. 525 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,260 Her hair samples placed her at the scene. 526 00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:14,180 She had an elevator access key. She knew how to get in and get out. 527 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,240 And what of the overcoat? 528 00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:18,720 Where did it go? 529 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,540 She just happened to throw it away around the time of the murder? 530 00:36:23,370 --> 00:36:28,370 Like she just happened to take shooting lessons three weeks before the murder. 531 00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:34,210 A woman bearing her resemblance just happens to be leaving the building three 532 00:36:34,210 --> 00:36:38,590 minutes after the shooting, wearing a coat just like one owned by the 533 00:36:38,610 --> 00:36:42,530 which coat just happens to get thrown away that very week. 534 00:36:44,630 --> 00:36:45,630 Come on. 535 00:36:46,810 --> 00:36:50,050 That's just a few too many coincidences. 536 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:53,200 Don't you think? 537 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:05,000 Katie, remember when I said my objectivity? 538 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,060 It's okay, Bobby. 539 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:09,760 I'm afraid I may have blown it. 540 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:17,060 By suddenly pointing my finger at the secretary, I'm worried I may have sent a 541 00:37:17,060 --> 00:37:18,060 message to the jury. 542 00:37:22,510 --> 00:37:23,510 Only if it was suicide. 543 00:37:24,170 --> 00:37:26,310 Hey, Bobby. 544 00:37:28,110 --> 00:37:30,050 You tried an incredible case. 545 00:37:31,130 --> 00:37:34,410 You got every one of their witnesses to admit it could be suicide. 546 00:37:35,910 --> 00:37:39,330 Plus, you offered another possible scenario if the jury is determined to 547 00:37:39,330 --> 00:37:40,330 conclude homicide. 548 00:37:41,950 --> 00:37:43,590 I don't question you at all. 549 00:37:53,540 --> 00:37:54,540 Jury's back. 550 00:38:01,220 --> 00:38:02,700 The defendant will please rise. 551 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,960 Madam foreperson, the jury has reached a unanimous verdict. 552 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:11,800 We have, Your Honor. 553 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:13,000 What say you? 554 00:38:14,260 --> 00:38:18,700 In the matter of Commonwealth of Massachusetts versus Catherine Defoe on 555 00:38:18,700 --> 00:38:23,280 charge of murder in the first degree, we, the jury, Find the defendant, 556 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,320 Catherine Defoe, guilty. 557 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,520 Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you are dismissed with the thanks of the 558 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,040 court. We are adjourned. 559 00:39:35,950 --> 00:39:36,990 Are you in love with her, Bobby? 560 00:39:40,830 --> 00:39:42,850 I'm not accusing you of being unfaithful. 561 00:39:44,110 --> 00:39:49,410 I trust you completely. It's just that sometimes 562 00:39:49,410 --> 00:39:53,610 people fall in love whether they want to or not. 563 00:39:57,310 --> 00:39:58,450 I'm not in love with her. 564 00:40:03,250 --> 00:40:04,530 There's something about her. 565 00:40:08,780 --> 00:40:11,320 Made me feel protective of her. 566 00:40:14,140 --> 00:40:15,460 And I'm devastated. 567 00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,120 Would you be upset if I said I didn't want you handling her, Theo? 568 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,160 Would you be upset if I said I had to? 569 00:41:06,780 --> 00:41:07,780 Yeah. 570 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:09,760 Okay, then. 571 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:11,680 I won't. 572 00:41:12,620 --> 00:41:14,380 There's just something about her, Bobby. 573 00:41:15,180 --> 00:41:17,720 I just don't want you with her. 574 00:41:19,100 --> 00:41:20,220 And that's that, then. 575 00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:29,710 I love you. 576 00:41:30,270 --> 00:41:31,270 I love you too. 577 00:41:32,650 --> 00:41:34,150 Though I don't feel like saying it tonight. 578 00:41:38,230 --> 00:41:39,510 Come on, let's go home. 44953

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