All language subtitles for The Misadventures of Romesh s04e01 Uganda.eng

This programme contains some strong
language.

Oh...

Over the last five years, I've been
visiting countries

with a bad reputation to see if the
preconceptions...

PRODUCER:
- Rom, sorry to interrupt.

Can you just avoid saying, "Bad
reputation"?

Because it implies that the countries
are bad.

And from a position of white
privilege,

it just doesn't look that great.

- Yeah, but they do have, like, a bad
reputation.

I mean, that's the point.
- Can you avoid it?

- Also, I'm not white.
- I know.

And we support that decision.

- I mean, it's not a decision, but OK.

Over the last five years, I've been
visiting countries

which some people associate with
somewhat negative preconceptions...

- Good.
- ELEPHANT TRUMPETS

..to see if that reputation is
justified...

It's good shit.

..or if we should be giving them a
second chance.

Oh, sorry!

This time, I'm going above and beyond,

travelling through the heart of
Africa, on a month-long journey...

- Rom, can you not say, "Heart of
Africa"?

It sounds like The Heart Of Darkness.

- OK, but that was in Africa.

- Yes, but it might trigger some
people.

- OK, how about, uh, former British
colonies?

- That will trigger other people.
- OK.

Travelling through Africa on one long,
epic journey.

Is Uganda all about Idi Amin?

Wow! This is genuinely amazing.

Is Rwanda more than the horrors of the
genocide?

WHISPERS: Oh, my God. I can't believe
this.

Is Madagascar full of animated talking
lions and singing lemurs?

- Can we just say all species of
lemurs, just in case

we offend any lemurs?

- The Misadventures Of Romesh
Ranganathan.

I began my odyssey in Kampala, capital
of Uganda, a landlocked

country of some 45 million people,

once described by Winston Churchill as
the pearl of Africa.

Before coming here, I sort of felt
like I'd got sort of acclimatised

to sort of African cities and how busy
and hectic they are,

but this is a level above. I mean,
it's proper mad.

- Can you sort of explain what
the...how the traffic works?

- Basically, the system is, whoever's
got the sharpest elbows

gets in first.

It could do, if I'm being honest with
you - I'm not a city planner -

a couple of roundabouts, maybe.
- And what's going on there?

- Well, there's been a collision
between a motorbike and a bicycle

containing some sort of unspecified
vegetable,

and now they're having an argument
about it.

I'll be honest with you,

I feel like filming it is only going
to aggravate the situation

but, listen, it's your choice.

- So, what are your preconceptions of
Uganda?

- When I think of Uganda, I think of
Idi Amin because we were so

invested in that story,

it's such a big thing, he was such a
big character, what he did,

and then, you know, you know very
little about the country since then.

And so, that is kind of...that is kind
of what you

come into this thinking about, and
maybe the ongoing legacy of that.

And then, the other thing is, between
us deciding to come here

and us actually arriving,

Uganda has just passed a load of
essentially anti-gay

laws and legislation.

So, you know, that's something that
I'm hoping to kind of, uh...

..chew on during my time here.

My co-host Alex has told me that I'm
going to meet her

somewhere here, because I think she
thinks that one of my things

I'd like to do here is have a panic
attack.

HORN HONKS

I'm sort of this far away from just
going down there

and screaming, "Alex," at the top of
my lungs and seeing if she responds.

Alex!

Alex!

Oh, no. It's a different Alex.
- What's going on?

- I don't know. I'm looking for Alex.

You've not seen her, have you?
- Hmm?

- Alex?
- Alex? - Yeah.

- I don't know, Alex.
- OK. All right, no worries, man. Thank you.

I eventually located Alex, a
32-year-old born and raised

in Kampala, in the middle of a bus
station.

I mean, she wasn't raised in a bus
station.

That's just where I caught up with
her.

- Romesh!
- Alex! - Hi.

How are you doing?
- Fine, thank you. - Oh, OK, let's do it.

Let's do that.
- I didn't know whether to do that or not.

- Oh.
- How are you? - It's a Ugandan thing.

- You meet people, and you give them a
hug. - Oh, OK.

Welcome. Welcome to Uganda.
- Thank you.

I've only been here a short time.
- Yes.

- It's been quite, uh...

SHE LAUGHS

I feel quite anxious.
- Why?

- Well, because I reckon...
- Yeah? - ..I've had a near-death experience

27 times since I've arrived, so...

But in a good way. Like, everyone's
friendly as they do it. - Yeah?

Everybody knows you're there. Don't
worry. - Do they?

- They won't knock you. That's for
sure. - OK.

Because they don't make any eye
contact.

They don't look like they know I'm
there.

- No, subconsciously, I think they
know you're there. - OK.

You promise?
- So, you don't have to... I promise.

- Because that's... My life is now in
your hands.

I'm just going to walk around not
looking, and assume that... - No!

Please do.
- Oh, do look? OK, fine. - Yes, please do look...

- ..because you never know what
happens, right?

- So, the only thing I know about...
Or the only...

As soon as you say Uganda to me, I
think Idi Amin, right? - Of course.

- I... Basically, I'm an open book.

- Yeah.
- I'm ready to find out all about it. - Yeah.

- So, what's the best way? What are we
going to...

How are we going to start it?
- To get here, I took a bike

because driving here, I'd be late.

- So bikes are quickest?
- Bike's the quickest. - OK.

- Not the most safe, but it's the
quickest.

- So, it's quick but dangerous?

That was my nickname at school.

Alex told me we would spend a week
venturing around Uganda,

experiencing its staggering array of
epic landscapes,

incredible wildlife, learning about
its troubled past

and addressing its modern complexity.

But we would start with a terrifying
trip across town on a boda boda -

a sort of death-defying cross between
a taxi ride

and human pinball.

Uganda's capital has ballooned from
just 167,000 people,

when it became independent in 1962, to
1.6 million people today,

most of them apparently intent on
injuring me.

I was eventually allowed off the bike
to take a stroll

up the ancient Mengo Hill, once home
to the royal family.

- So, this region was ruled by the
Buganda.

Buganda.
- "Booganda"? - "Bu".

Buganda Kingdom is where the Buganda
people...

- Buganda people from the Buganda
Kingdom? - Yes, sir.

- OK.
- And so, that's where Uganda got its name.

It was a mispronunciation.

- Mispronunciation?
- The British pronounce...mispronounced it.

I mean, originally...
- Yeah. Yeah, you guys did. Yeah.

- Us guys?
- Yes. - Listen, I'm originally Sri Lankan.

So, the British mispronounced it.

- But listen, I'm as angry about it as
you are.

So... So...

BOTH LAUGH So...
- It was a mispronunciation.

- So, hold on. So, somebody said,
"This is Buganda."

- Someone said, "This is Buganda."
- And then, he went, "You mean, Uganda?"

- Uganda, yes.
- And then it got stuck? - Because in Swahili,

they don't have a "Bu".
- Yeah.

- A B. I'm actually a princess of
Buganda.

So, when I say my name, people know.

- You're a princess?
- Yes, I am.

So, the king, I call him uncle.

- Are you joking?
- No, I'm not.

- You're a princess?
- I'm showing you our lovely home.

- Does that mean... Does your
lifestyle have to be more

traditional than it otherwise would
have been? - Yes. They expect it.

Really? Luckily, they don't pick our
partners any more.

- So, they used to pick your partners?
- Yes.

- Do you get to tell people what to do
and stuff?

Like, will you always get whatever
table you want at a restaurant?

- No, no, no, no, no.
- No?

- So, I would say that the... Because
my father is not the king, right?

I am royalty, but his children would
get the special treatment...

- OK.
- ..live in the palace, and things like that.

- Do you get anything, like a discount
or anything like that?

SHE LAUGHS

At all?
- No.

There's quite a number of princesses.

And...
- OK. How many are we talking?

- Many. More than I can count.
- Like... More than you can count?

- More than I can count because...
- How high can you count?

Because that sort of determines how
big a number that is.

- How many people in Uganda?
- If you can only count to nine, then...

- I guess, how many people are in
Buganda? It's a lot of people.

- OK.
- And so, then... - Like, are we talking, like, 1,000?

- More than.
- More than 1,000?

There's more than 1,000 princesses?
ALEX LAUGHS

Alex explained that although the royal
family's role is now

largely ceremonial, the Bugandan kings
have ruled here since

the early 14th century.

- This is the Mengo Palace.

Those lions at the top,

just like the lion is the king of the
jungle,

the king is the most feared and the
most revered. - Yeah.

After independence, Buganda retained
semi-autonomous status,

but all that changed in 1966, when the
president sent the Ugandan

army, led by young Idi Amin, to storm
the hill.

- So, the troops ran up this hill.
- Yeah.

- And they went into the palace after
the king.

- To get rid of the king?
- To get rid of the king. - OK.

- And so, the troops ran into the
palace, and the king manages

to escape and jump over the wall, and
get a taxi and went to London.

Um...
- He got a taxi?

- He did do, yes, and went to London.
- So, he jumped over the wall...

So, the troops are coming up the hill.
- Mm-hm.

- He's in deep trouble.
- Yes.

- "I've got to get out of here."
- Yeah.

- He jumps over the back wall, then...
HE WHISTLES

- Taxi.
- London. - And then he goes to London.

- And then, the driver goes, "That's
going to cost loads." - I think so.

- And I bet you he had to pay double
time.

ALEX LAUGHS

- Yes, he must have!

- And then, what happened to him in
London?

- Um, he stayed there three years and,
unfortunately, died in exile.

Mm.
- OK.

A damning indictment of London, that.
- Right.

But the kingdom is still here.

- Yes. It looks beautiful.

- Yes, it does.
- The Mengo Palace. - Yeah.

- The next day, we drove out of
Kampala, heading out

to the River Nile for what was
promised to be a day of action

and adventure on the water.

Are you, like... Are you, um, a proud
Ugandan?

- I love it. I'll tell you why.

There's never a dull moment.

- Yeah.
- I can guarantee.

Ugandans...

- Well, I saw that, just from that
roundabout.

- ..everything is turned into
something laughable.

- Just general positive vibes?
- Yeah.

- So, what exactly do you do?

- I'm a programme manager for a
consultancy company.

Education projects, mainly.

- So, is that quite, um, a prestigious
job then?

- It's a regular job, I think.

Jobs that people deem prestigious are,
like,

if you're a doctor - it's a big deal
here. - Yeah.

My mum.... When I first told my mum I
wasn't going to become a doctor...

..we had to have a sit-down chat.
- Oh!

And you explained why didn't you want
to be a doctor though?

- Well, I had to... First of all, I
didn't want to.

Second of all, I wasn't clever enough.

So I had to say to her, "You know, I
could become a doctor." - Yeah.

- "But it'd be one of those
incompetent ones that's constantly getting sued for,

"like, malpractice or whatever.

"Is that what you want?"

ALEX LAUGHS

We eventually arrived at Jinja, a few
hours outside Kampala.

A once-tiny town, which has thrived
off the back of the spectacular

whitewater rafting opportunities on
offer along the Nile.

How are you feeling about this? ALEX
LAUGHS

- Scared.
- Yep. "Scared," did you say? - Yeah.

OK. The one sort of consolation is we
both look cool.

Hello.
- Hello.

- Are you good?
- I'm good.

- Alex decided to take us whitewater
rafting

because, it turns out, completely
unbeknownst to me,

that Uganda apparently has some of the
best whitewater rafting

in the world.

Big J is the leader.

- So, when you get in this boat here,
you're going to sit like this.

And I myself am going to be at the
back,

giving all the instructions, telling
you what to do.

Yes.
- Have you ever been injured?

- Myself?
- Yeah.

- Yeah. Look at my teeth.

- That was from doing this?
- Yeah.

Because most people, they get injured
because of these.

- OK.
- If you make them swung around, you're going to hurt somebody.

- OK.
- Hold on to your paddle. - No, you hold on to YOUR paddle.

- OK, let's jump in!

- You're joking!

- ALEX YELPS

- Ah-ha-ha! This is the part I cannot
do.

Ah!
- Alex, come on, come in.

- Aaaaaah!

- Alex's big problem was that she
didn't trust the life jacket.

I believe she thought she was just
wearing a jacket.

LAUGHS

- You'll be fine. You'll be safe.
- Can I hold you?

- Come over. Just slide.

Slide, like that. Yeah.

Perfect. Let go of the boat.

- You fall in the water,

you're underwater for five seconds,
then you come up.

And then, they pull you on like a
massive fish.

You, essentially, in order to survive,
have to act dead.

That's the irony of it.

- OK. Everybody, back on your seat.

Get on your position.

- And when you have that kind of fear,
you know, she can go...

If she's then going to overcome that
fear and do it,

it's an amazing thing. You can put
some Adele on underneath

or whatever and it's going to be,
like, a really cool moment.

- This one is deep enough.

No rock.
- No rocks, OK.

- There's no way you're going to hit a
rock, in case you fell

out of the boat.
- It hadn't even occurred to me

that there'd be rocks until he said
there wouldn't be. OK.

- Don't say it, man.

- There's six grades, or levels, if
you like, of rapids

that you can go through.

So, level one is, like, very low
grade, like somebody farting

in a bathtub.

ALEX SCREAMS

- Oh, no! I'm...

- Stop! Get down!

Easy.

- ROMESH LAUGHS

Level two is...

..two people farting in a bathtub.

- Get down!

- ALEX SCREAMS

Three is...

..I guess, like a large animal farting
in a bathtub.

Anyway, the point is that they get
stronger.

- Oh!

- Ugh!

ROMESH YELPS

Alex found the whole thing really
nerve-racking.

But despite all of that, fair play to
her,

she did two of the rapids,

and she just, you know, she ducked
out, like,

for the second half of it. I-I totally
understand.

I can't believe she did the first two
rapids.

Turns out she'd made the best decision
of her life

because the next one, a grade four,
was insane.

I felt like praying to God to send my
best wishes

to my wife and children.

- OK, forward! Paddle!

- ROMESH LAUGHS NERVOUSLY

- Harder, harder!
- I don't know what's happening!

- Get down!

- Ah!

- Get up and paddle!

- Get up and paddle?!

No fucking... Fucking hell!

He's saying paddle, there's no water
there.

The wave's here.

What do you want me to do, paddle in
front of my face?

And then, like, he's just screaming,
"Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!"

- Paddle, paddle, paddle!

- "Faster, faster! Harder!
Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!"

Fucking hell!

- Yeah, we got it!

- How is this a category four?!

It can't be.

It feels like a fucking anxiety dream.

I actually thought I was going to die.

- Well done!
- What's happening?!

What's happening?!

There is a six.

You never do a six, basically.

- If you look down there, you'll see
the water splashing.

No-one goes down this rapid.

- You never, ever... You never, ever
do a six.

Unless, in the words of Big J, you
want to die.

So I'll come back next year.

Yeah, I think we both...

We've both learnt a little something.

I've learnt that Uganda's got great
white-water rafting,

you can have a great time,

and Alex has learnt to sort of think
about organising

water-based activities if you can't
swim.

The next day, like explorers of old,

we journeyed upstream to find the
source of this epic river.

So, this is the way to the source of
the Nile?

- Yeah.
- Because it looks like the way to Mahatma Gandhi's statue

maintained by Bank of Baroda.

ALEX LAUGHS

I'm just saying.

For a period in the mid-19th century,

the hunt for the origin of the world's
longest river

became a Victorian obsession,

making household names of explorers,

who eventually pinpointed a spot here
on the edge of Lake Victoria

as the beginning of the longest, most
majestic

and most romantic river on Earth.

Is this the source, right here?

- Yeah.

- Mind your head.
- Oh, yeah. Thank you. - Yeah.

Well, this is exciting.

Let's see if that's... Oh, wow.

- So, this is it.
- This is it.

- It doesn't look like the start of
anything, does it?

You know what I mean?
- Yeah. - It looks like we're in the middle.

I mean, if you moved it 100 yards that
way...

- You wouldn't know the difference.
- ..nobody would notice.

You know what I thought, honestly?

When you hear about the source of a
river... - Mm-hm.

- ..it's like the top of a mountain or
something.

We'd be, like, we'd be by a melting
glacier.

"The Nile starts here."

It feels quite corporate, doesn't it?

How do you feel about the beer
sponsorship?

- I mean...

They took advantage of the name.

- I think the river came first, didn't
it?

ALEX LAUGHS

I've just got to say...
- Yeah.

- ..what a magical experience...
- Yeah!

- ..to come to the source of the Nile,

brought to you by Nile Special in
association with Coca-Cola.

SHE LAUGHS

Right. Shall we go and get gifts? I'm
going to...

I'm going to buy a bead necklace or
something. - Yeah.

The earrings are quite cute.
- Yeah.

I'll have to get my ears pierced.

Do you reckon he does that, as well?

- Oh, this is Uganda.

Anything is possible.

- We doubled back on ourselves,

heading west across a country

that's the size of the UK,

but somehow felt at least ten times
bigger.

The plan was to explore some of
Uganda's natural beauty,

taking in crater lakes formed by
ancient volcanoes

and its abundance of awe-inspiring
wildlife.

The mission that would involve -
unfortunately for Alex - more water.

Alex explained that although it's long
since lived in the shadow

of its more popular neighbour, Kenya,

tourists are beginning to come back,

drawn in by the world-class
wildlife-spotting on offer.

After an epic eight-hour drive,

we entered Queen Elizabeth National
Park,

named after Queen Elizabeth.

Oh, wow. Look at this.

- It's lovely, yeah.
- It's pretty cool. Well done.

- You keep saying well done like a
Ugandan.

- Do Ugandans say well done?
- Oh, extremely. - Well done.

Well, I haven't done anything.

- Maybe I've just got more Ugandan in
me than I thought.

ALEX LAUGHS

Oh, my... Wow!

The idea was to hike Kyambura Gorge.

Created millions of years ago by
volcanic activity,

it's an amazing spectacle of
biodiversity,

crammed into a 12-mile section, 100m
deep

and home to a supposed plethora of
monkeys.

- So, the gorge is teeming with life,
right?

There's lots of monkeys, different
kinds of birds.

Uganda is known for their kinds of
birds.

- It looks unbelievable.

- And, yeah, I look forward to seeing
it.

I think the ranger's going to tell us
more about it.

- OK.
- Yeah. - I'm very excited.

- Hello, Ruth.
- Hello.

Nice meeting you.
- Thank you.

Alex.
- Ruth is my name.

- Hello, Romesh.
- Nice meeting you, Romesh. - Nice to meet you.

We're about to hike through the gorge,

hopefully taking in the various types
of wildlife

that the gorge has to offer.

We're going to gorge ourselves on
flora and fauna.

I wish I hadn't said that.

But anyway, that's what we're doing.

We're hiking through the gorge.

- Romesh, are you OK there?

- I'm fine. I don't like downhill,
really,

as a rule, but I'm fine.

ALEX LAUGHS

Erm, Ruth, what do you have the gun
for?

- The other part of my job.

I must have a gun in case of the
visitors,

in case of any charge of an animal,

maybe an elephant, maybe a hippo.
- Mm-hm.

- So, how many chimpanzees are there
here?

- So, Kyambura Gorge is a home to 32
chimpanzees.

The chances of finding them are 50% to
60%.

- What do you see, Rom?

- I thought they saw something, but it
was, erm...

It was a tree.

- More facts about chimpanzees.

Chimpanzees eat meat.

- Do they?
- They do. And they do hunt other monkeys.

- What?!

- Yes.

- I cannot believe that.

- Hunting comes in at a certain period
of the year.

- OK.
- And it is a planned arrangement that today

we are going to have meat.

So, killing the monkey,

they use these big trees.

They will grab the monkey and hit his
head on the branch. - Mm.

- So, they are smart in a way that
they do not want that monkey

to die a painful death.
- Mm.

- They will hit his head, he will lose
his senses

and then they will tear up.

- How is that not a painful death?

- Can you see anything, Rom?

- Yes, there's more trees.

BIRDS CHATTER

CHIMPANZEES HOOT

- Chimpanzees.

So, I prefer we walk back the same way
we came,

because the chimpanzees are inviting
us.

- They're inviting us?
- They are letting us know

that we are going in the wrong
direction.

- ALEX CHUCKLES

OK.

WHISPERS: Apparently, the chimpanzees,

Ruth said they were communicating to
let us know we're going

the wrong way.

Fucking hell!

It's like a swamp now.

ROMESH GROANS

CHIMPANZEES HOOT

What is it?

- Can you hear that? The chimps?

- The chimps?
- Yeah.

- WHISPERING: Ruth thinks that
she's...

..figured out roughly where the
chimpanzees are,

but, um,

they're very clever.

So it's not beyond the realms of
possibility

that they just thought,

"Should we lead these three twats on a
merry chimp chase?"

- Where are you heading on to now?

- Um, I guess it'll be through some
more trees

and then on to the Crater Lake, which

has an incredible amount of pressure
on it,

I would say.

If I turn up at the Crater Lake...

..and Kendrick Lamar is not doing a
gig...

..I'll be absolutely furious.

Or what would be an amazing end to
this

is we get to the Crater Lake,

and all the animals from here are
waiting there.

And they just go, "Surprise!"

Eventually, we emerge from the gorge

and hobble towards the twin lakes of
Kyema and Kamweru.

Oh, my God!

Wow!

They were formed by a volcanic
eruption

at some point between 400 and 12,000
years ago,

depending on who you believe.

- This is the escarpment, the western
wall of the Rift Valley.

- This is incredible.

- Is it worth it now?

- Yeah, this is actually.
- OK.

- It's absolutely amazing.

Ruth, thank you so much for looking
after us today.

- It has been a pleasure.

- It's, er, genuinely stunning.

We headed further north,

careering across the equator

and heading deeper into rural Uganda.

Alex explained that the country is
still highly religious.

81% of the Christian population attend
church every week,

and society is built on a bedrock of

highly traditional, conservative
faith.

Where do you sit in the scale of,
um...

..your generation of people?

Are you quite, more traditional than
the

average person of your age or less?

Or about the same, would you say?

- I think I'm a bit more traditional.

- Right.
- Um...

But again, people from the royal
family were expected to behave

in such a way you... To protect...

..protect its norms,

protect its values.
- Yeah. - A lot.

I'm old school.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So do you look at, like, society in
the UK and feel like

it's lost its way a little bit then?

Is that kind of...?

- Yeah.
- Yeah. - I think so.

- In terms... In terms of what?

Because I think, you know,

a lot of people in the UK would agree
with you,

but, I mean, what's your kind of take
on it?

- So, OK, from what we see on, um,
social media and

we see that there's a lot more
acceptance

for people acting on how they feel.

- Right.
- Which for us,

your feelings are valid,

but they're not the most important
thing.

- OK.
- Right? So society has rules, so to say,

and we abide by them.

- OK.

- Um...
- So what you mean by that is...

- Men are men.
- Men are men and women are women.

- Women are women.

You don't over complicate it.

It's basics. Just the basics.

- If you...

If you...

Would you ever be in a relationship
where the man

was the one that stayed home and
looked after the children,

and you were the one that went out and
worked? - No.

- No.

- I think that he would not be
happy... - OK.

- ..with me being the one that's
bringing the money home.

I don't think he would. And I would
not be happy.

- I mean, speaking personally, I'd be
delighted.

- You would?
- I think so.

- Well, why are you not doing it now?

- Because...

erm, my wife is terrible at comedy.

That evening at the hotel, we had a
drink at the bar.

As amazing as Uganda had been so far,

I was aware that there was an elephant
in the room -

Uganda's new, so-called anti-gay laws.

The legislation, which passed a few
weeks before I arrived,

outlaws homosexuality and punishes
anybody promoting it

with a prison sentence of up to 20
years,

or potentially even the death penalty.

The laws have been described as some
of the harshest of their kind

anywhere on the planet,

but I wanted to find out what the
Ugandan perspective was.

So, between us...
- Mm.

- ..deciding to come to Uganda...
- Yeah.

- ..and make this show...
- OK.

- ..and us arriving in Uganda to make
this show,

a new set of laws and legislation were
put in place.

So I guess my first question would be

what's your... I mean, how popular is
that?

- I think it represents what we
believe as a people.

- OK.
- Um, that...

..women marry men.

That's it.

- There's no in between.

- Um...
- It comes from a religious thing?

- And culturally.
- And a cultural thing, OK. - Yes, it's just how...

And actually, people were happy when
the president signed the bill.

I was for it.

- Yeah, for full clarity...
- Yes.

- ..I'm coming from a country

that has a completely different
attitude to that

and also my own personal views are
different.

I'm giving you an idea of what my bias
is in this,

but I'm trying to be like, you know...

- What is your bias, if I may ask?

- My belief is that it's no more a
choice to be homosexual

than it is to be a choice to be
heterosexual.

- OK.
- So you're saying, in my opinion,

I want to make it illegal for you to
be who you are.

It's the same thing as saying to me,

we're going to make it illegal to be
brown.

Do you know what I mean?
- Yes.

- That's kind of... That's kind of
how... That's kind of how I see it.

How do you feel about the idea that

they have no choice about who they
are, you know?

- I think you do.

- You think so?
- Yes, please.

- So you think, in your opinion, every
gay person has chosen to be gay.

- If... I mean, how else are they gay?

- Well, I didn't choose to be
heterosexual.

I am heterosexual by nature.
- Yeah.

- I don't believe it's any different
for homosexual people. - Mm.

I think then we beg to differ.

Sex is not something that you tell
children,

like, it's not something that it's
open and...

We don't do that.

We've had incidents where books were
taken to schools.

- Right.
- Um, in the library.

And that caused an outrage.

And so the Ministry of Education said,
"We won't be having this

"in the schools."

So that's what happened.

The first thing was to protect
children. - OK.

- Yeah.
- Protect children from what, though?

- From that kind of content.

- Let's assume that homosexuality is a
choice.

What's wrong with letting people make
that choice?

- Do we allow people to make all
choices?

They just... They just...make the
choice as they feel.

- Well, I mean, within limit.

- Exactly.

This is a limit.

We have guardrails in everything.

I think it's OK.

No offence, but I feel like in the
West, your guardrails...

are...

are very, very wide...
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- In the UK, they are told it's
normal.

- Yeah.
- Right? In Uganda, they will be told it's not normal.

- OK.
- That's what... That's the difference.

- So there must be, er...

..lots of people in homosexual
relationships.

- Lots?

- Yeah, I would say lots.

- I have never in my life met a
homosexual couple.

I've never met it.

- Never, ever?
- Never. - OK.

I think that...

..if you became really close friends
with somebody... - Mm.

- ..and then you later on discover
that they were homosexual... - Mm.

- ..and then this law was passed...
- Mm.

- ..I think you'd have a different
attitude to it.

- I don't think so.

- If you like...
- I would, as a person, I would love them.

- Yeah.
- I still don't agree with what they're doing, but I love them.

- OK, but then would you support them
going to prison for 20 years?

- Why would they...
- For being who they are.

- Is that who they are?

- That is... In my opinion...

- Or that's what they've chosen to be?

- I think that, you know, the
fundamental difference

between what my viewpoint is and what
your viewpoint is

and where we're never going to meet,

regardless of what we think about the
treatment of this is... - Yeah.

- ..is that I don't believe it's a
choice and you do. - Yes.

- And that is kind of the crux of the
problem. - Yes.

Yes.

- Alex's insistence that this law has
widespread support

does seem to be broadly true.

Only one MP voted against it in
Parliament,

with 371 in favour.

- I put a question that the
Anti-Homosexuality Bill 2023

be read the third time and do pass.

Those in favour, say aye, and to the
contrary, nay.

- Aye.

- The ayes have it.

- I got that the country's religious

and that that would have shaped
opinions,

but clearly some Ugandans feel
otherwise.

Although it was hard to find anyone
able to speak openly on the subject,

I did manage to contact an activist
from Uganda's LGBTQ community,

to try and understand what life is
like for gay people

in modern Uganda.

Her voice has been distorted to
protect her identity.

Hello there. It's Romesh here.

So how are you feeling at the moment

with everything that's going on, the
new laws that are passed?

Before this bill was passed,

what was life like for the gay
community in Uganda?

So you're saying they've basically
linked

homosexuality with child abuse.

Do people believe this?

Right.

It sounds so awful.

How do you feel about people visiting
Uganda

with this way of life in place, with
this kind of thing going on?

I mean, how do you feel about that
whole thing?

You know, the honest truth is, I find
it incredibly...

I find it incredibly upsetting, you
know?

I just... My heart goes out to people.

I can't even imagine.

If you are a member of the gay
community, or are a supporter

of the gay community, your life here
is incredibly challenging.

People feel empowered to be homophobic

because they're backed up by law.

It's horrible, it's disgusting.

I mean, when I came to the country, I
was hoping...

..that I could somehow kind of justify
what's happened

with these new laws and that they
hadn't been supported,

and this is something that people are
up in arms about.

But having spoken to Alex,

who I think is fairly typical of the
views in, in this country...

..I think not only is it a
well-supported law,

I think it's a celebrated one.

I mean, the truth is that I really get
on with Alex.

She's been an amazing host.

She's been a really effusive

and energetic advocate for Uganda as a
country.

Um, but the fact of the matter is, we
are fundamentally opposed

in our sets of views, and it's not
coming from a bad place with her.

It's coming from a place where she
feels family is important.

Um, and she wants it to be protected.

I also feel family is important and I
want it to be protected.

But what our views are of what
families look like

are completely different and we'll
never agree on that.

It's left me feeling like I'm not
really sure how I feel about Uganda.

You know, I've had...

..nice experiences, I've got on with
Alex,

but it's something I'm just going to
have to...

..I'm going to have to ponder over the
next few days, I think.

The next morning, we headed further
into the Ugandan countryside,

in the direction of Murchison National
Park,

to experience more of rural Uganda.

We, er...

..we popped along to a village and we
did like a, I would describe it

as a smorgasbord of village
activities.

The first one was to meet up with a
man

whose family's been responsible for
providing the village with

banana-based, er, beverages.

- Hello.
- You are welcome. - Thank you.

- I'm good.
- I'm Romesh.

- I'm Mugabe Robert.

- Nice to meet you.
- Mugabe Robert.

- His name was Mugabe Robert.

I'll let you figure out who he's named
after.

- It takes, like, 15 minutes.

- Oh, OK.
- Yeah.

- There are three stages to those
beverages.

Uh, first is banana juice,

and you distil that, you get yourself
banana beer.

Distil that again, you get yourself
banana gin.

- No muscle, no juice.

- No muscle, no juice.

- Yeah.

So there's a, there's an art to it,
Romesh.

- Yeah.
- Put your shoulder in it.

Like this, like this.

- ALEX LAUGHS

Oh! Absolute banana carnage.

Er, the way you make banana juice is
you squash some bananas.

Oh!
- Oh, OK.

- Loads of muscle, loads of juice.

And you add water to it.

You then get banana leaf and you use
that to make a banana filter.

You pour the banana liquid through the
banana filter

into a banana juice jar.

And that, my friend, is banana juice.

And I would describe that taste as a
lot like bananas with water.

And then you distil that and it
becomes banana beer.

Thank you. That'll do. Cheers, Mugabe
Robert.

- For us here we say bonga.

- Bonga!
- Bonga.

- Bonga. Oh, you've already started,
OK.

And I'd describe that taste as a lot
like bananas with water and mud.

And then, finally, that is distilled
again

to make the banana gin.

Bonga.
- Bonga.

- And I'd describe that as bananas
with fire.

COUGHS

- See?

- Woo!

You sort of get an initial banana-y
taste,

and then you feel like...

I would describe it as an intense
chemical burn.

COUGHS

Uh, it felt like it had undone

all of the Yakult I'd drunk in my
life.

There's literally nothing left inside
me.

- Take a sip. Just...

You can sip.

- Oh, I sort of knocked it back like a
heathen, didn't I? Sorry.

- Do you want to mix up juice?

- No, it's fine, it's fine, I like it.

I like it uncut.

It killed not only bacteria, but
emotions

and feelings.

I've not felt anything since.

Bonga! You've got a half measure
there, mate.

Woo!

ROMESH LAUGHS

- Are you sure you're OK?
- That's great. That is good stuff, man.

Congratulations.

I am battered.

Cut.
- How many fingers? How many?

Look.

- Huh? I couldn't tell you that even
without being drink.

Drink? Dronk?

LAUGHS

- Wow! OK.

That's enough. Thank you.

Please.

This is... This is dangerous.

- I was licked.

I was banana split.

I was absolutely hammered.

And I was so drunk that I thought,
"This can't be

"how I'm going to feel going forward.
This must be like

"an initial banana buzz and then I'm
going to overcome it."

But no, that is how I felt for the
rest of my day in the village.

It did not...

It did not subside at all.

Hey! I'm Romesh.

- Annette.

- Annette.
- Yes. - OK.

Hello.

The idea of sort of starting the day
with nine tots of banana gin

and finishing it with needlework,

er, doesn't seem that smart to me,

but that is what we did.

- Yeah.
- Oh.

I have to go through the... OK. Oh!
Hey!

If anybody wants to have a go at
basket weaving,

do it sober would be my tip.

Tell me, can you tell the bit where I
started?

- Yes, please.

- THEY LAUGH

- Well, put some energy into it.

It has to be tight, man.

- This is bad, isn't it?
- It's not so bad.

- It's bad, isn't it?

- It's bad! Wow!

- Oh, no.

I asked her to check my work and she
undid everything I'd done.

I can't even see this, let alone
myself, mate.

Three weeks of work from Annette.

Seven minutes of work from Romesh to
completely ruin it.

And then I had to go and meet a
herbalist. I thought,

"That's the last thing I need."

Er, would you mind giving us some
examples of what some people

in the village have come to you?

What kind of problems they've come to
you with?

And how does the, um...

Just, I'm picking one at random.

How does the Viagra work on the body?

There's a root that, if you grind it
into a powder

and add it to your coffee or your tea,
it makes you fiercely sexual.

He sort of said, you know, you can
take this,

it's going to give you an erection.

But once you get that erection, you've
got to do something with it.

Do you know what I mean? Like,
otherwise it's a wasted hard-on.

I guess if you just wanted to...

I don't know, if you wanted to change
your shadow.

Er, if you wanted to...

LAUGHS

We took another especially long drive
north. Long enough even for me

to recover from the banana beer.

We eventually arrived at our final
destination,

Murchison National Park,

home to an embarrassment of wild
animals

and spectacular waterfalls.

First, though, we headed over to the
ruins of an old hunting lodge,

once home to the country's notorious
dictator Idi Amin.

Um, what is the perception of Idi Amin
in Uganda?

- When you say Idi Amin,

at least for me, I know many people
died.

- Right.
- Right.

Um, so it's not positive, that's for
sure.

- Yeah.

It doesn't come up much in chat.

- No, he does not.

- He's sort of seen as the ultimate
kind of mad dictator.

Do you know what I mean?

Like in terms of, like, obviously he
did a lot of stuff,

but just... He did a lot of stuff that
was like kind of, um,

just a bit wacky.

- He challenged the president of
Tanzania to a boxing match.

- Yeah.
- That was funny.

And then he'd said Muhammad Ali would
be the referee. Winner.

- SHE LAUGHS

- I'm sure Muhammad Ali said, "Wow."

- A former British soldier,

Idi Amin became president of Uganda

after a coup in 1971.

- So help me God.

- At first welcomed as one of a new
breed of outward-looking,

modern African leaders,

Amin's reign quickly descended into a
brutal mixture

of blood-letting and farce.

- The members of the Defence Council

and the entire people of Uganda
consider me,

I am the conqueror of the British
Empire.

- His idiosyncratic style has become
legendary.

He declared himself the King of
Scotland

and launched the Save Britain Fund

to help with the UK's financial woes.

In 1972, he ordered that all Asians
must leave the country

within 90 days.

An apparently popular move

that served to collapse the entire
economy

and isolate his regime in the eyes of
the world.

- What will happen to these people if
they don't go by the time they have?

- I think they will be sitting like
they're sitting on the fire.

I will tell you this.

You just wait after three months.

- What will you do to them?
- OK. You will see.

- By 1974, he was engaged in a reign
of terror.

Rumours swirled of cannibalism and
madness

as 300,000 people were killed.

In a desperate attempt to forge
national unity,

in 1978, Amin started a war with
neighbouring Tanzania.

The strategy failed and Amin was
driven into exile in Saudi Arabia,

where he eventually died in 2003.

He was survived by his six wives and
43 children.

He's quite a colourful dude.

Like, you'd almost like him if it
wasn't for the fact that

he did a load of horrible stuff when
he was in charge.

I've got this name here, right?

This is what he called himself.
- OK.

- So Idi Amin...
- Mm-hm.

- ..called himself His Excellency...
- Right.

- ..president for life,

Field Marshal Alhaji Doctor Idi Amin
Dada,

VC, DSO, MC,

Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth
and Fishes of the seas,

and Conqueror of the British Empire in
Africa in general

and Uganda in particular.

- Well...
- I mean, what do you think of that?

I mean, some of those claims are true.
- He had humour.

Well, yes, he was the...

- I mean, part of it sounds like the
tag line of a Marvel film.

What would your title be?

- Um...
- Yeah.

- Princess of Buganda.
- Yeah.

- And Uganda in general.

Might as well!

- Yeah, yeah.
- Lover of jeans.

- Yeah.
- Lover of jeans.

And meat.

- Yeah.
- I love meat.

- I think mine would be Romesh
Ranganathan... - Mm-hm.

- ..vegan father...
- Oh.

- ..er, husband to disappointed wife,

ruler of comedy in Britain

and Crawley in particular.

And purveyor of lazy eye.

There you go.

- He did other things that were a bit
strange, so to speak. - Yeah.

- Um, people weren't allowed to walk
on the street with, in slippers.

- Yeah.
- And so they, they were made to eat them.

- OK. Well, I mean, apart from the
eating thing, I do sort of...

I do sort of agree with that.

Hello.
- Hello.

You're most welcome, sir.

- Thank you very much.
- Yes.

My name is Silva.

- We met a ranger who'd agreed to show
us what remained

of Idi Amin's game lodge

and ensure we didn't get eaten in the
process.

- Me and my colleague just checked a
few minutes back

to make sure we are safe walking
there. - OK.

- We saw, like, prints for leopards.

- For leopards?
- But we made sure we check

every corners of the structure...
- Mm-hm.

- ..and we didn't find any, so we are
safe to move there.

OK, can we walk there?
- Yeah, let's go. - After you.

- Seeing lots of concrete.

It used to be such a powerful lodge.

- What happened to it?

- This one was looted and in the
process, there was no control.

This lodge just caught fire

and it's how it got destroyed.
- Wow.

- Yes, you can step down. Step down
there. - Down here?

OK.
- It was actually one of the most beautiful lodges in the park.

- Did Amin come to this lodge?
- Yes.

There is actually another point where
he wanted to put

the headquarters of his district.

- So we've talked a bit about Idi Amin
and the sillier things,

his long name, you know, some of the
things he got up to.

But there is a much darker side to
what he did, you know.

During his time in power, 300,000
people died.

Do you know people who lost family
members during this time or...

- I mean, the king who was exiled.

- Yeah.
- Amin wasn't the president then,

but he was, like, really in charge of
the army

that came to attack our, um, palace.

So that is the closest relationship I
have.

But my mum told me it was difficult
when Idi Amin was president.

She was working in government.

People disappeared, people died.

So, you had to be careful,

is what I remember her saying.

- And can I ask you a question?

Give me an honest answer, I won't get
offended. - I will try.

- Is it annoying, is it slightly
annoying for you

that for somebody that wasn't even
alive at the time,

you're now having to field questions
about Idi Amin

because I want to find out about
Uganda?

I mean, is that something that you
thought I would ask you about?

Is that something you think, "Why the
hell is he asking about this?"

It was such a long time ago.

- Um, everybody I meet...
- Yeah.

- ..only knows Idi Amin.

Like, when you say, "I'm from Uganda."

"Oh, Idi Amin!" I'm like...

we've had so many presidents between
him and now.

We have a president that has been here
for a long time.

We do have an Asian community.

We've got Asian businessmen that have
been here for a while.

But the really interesting thing is,
after Idi Amin left,

um, it didn't get any better.

It got worse. There was civil war,

lots of wars, killings.

Uganda wasn't a fun place to live.

I don't know how my mum made it.

- And what do you think of, er...

..the state of Uganda now

in terms of how it's being run and
stuff? Are you...

- There's always an opportunity to do
better.

When you came in, you saw all the
potholes. - Yeah.

- I think we could do better in
governance, just administration...

- OK.
- ..of our resources to make sure,

like, we maintain what we have.

I think we could do better.

Having the oil is really great for our
country.

There's challenges that come with
having so much oil.

But I think it's a good thing we have
these additional resources

because our government has been trying
to diversify income,

and this is one of the ways.

We do have peace,

which, according to people who are
older than me,

is...is... I mean, they always say,

"You don't know what you, what you
have until you lose it."

Right? So for them having peace...

..is enough.
- Yeah.

- Um...
- By comparison.

- Yeah.

I don't think there'll ever come a
time

when we'll completely draw a line and
forget about it.

It's just not possible.
- Mm.

- Um, but there will come a time
where...

..it's not the main issue.

It's not the main point of discussion.

Um, I do hope that is soon.

I think it will be.

- If we do a part two to this...
- Mm.

- ..you know, if I ever come back...

- Uh-huh.
- ..to do another travel show,

my first question will be, "Tell me
more about Lake Victoria," OK?

- You promise?
- I won't even mention Idi Amin. - Good. OK.

- Unless they uncover something new
about him.

In which case, it'll be my, you know,
it'll be my duty

on behalf of the BBC.

As the final stage of our journey,
Alex had arranged for us to visit

the world-famous Murchison Falls from
a boat.

Something for the crocodiles to chew
on. - Great.

- Journeying upriver

whilst dodging the numerous deadly
animals on the shore,

which would lie perhaps in wait.

Look at this, Alex.
- It's so calm.

It is looking at us.
- Oh!

Oh, my God, look at that, it's showing
its butt.

- How fast do they swim?

- Hippos in water, they can get up to
7.8km per hour.

And on land, 30.2 on land. They're
quite fast.

- That's a nightmare cos I'm 7.7 in
the water

and 30.1 on the land, so...

I'm not sure why they would catch me.

Real shame. Let's get out of here.

WHISPERING: Oh, my God, there's a croc
right there.

Holy shit, look.

How close are we going to get to this
thing?

- They can get up to five to six
metres long,

and they can live up to 100 years.

- It's almost part of you, like, wants
to go and poke it

to see if it's alive.

- Try.

Try and throw something.

Oh, it's moving!

It's moving.
- It's heading towards the crew boat.

Cool, it's disappeared.

Let's get the fuck out of here.

Oh, my God, I love elephants, man.

Look at that.

- Wow! Wow!

Whoa!

- That is crazy, isn't it?

These falls, sometimes known as the
Kabalega Falls,

are arguably the most spectacular
thing that happens to the Nile

during its 4,000-mile journey,

as the enormous river is forced
through a gap

just seven metres wide,

plummeting down 141 feet,

before heading out west to Lake
Albert.

It has been described by people, who
are almost certainly wrong,

as the world's most powerful
waterfall.

Wow.

This is incredible.

- It feels a bit threatening to me.

Like, "Oh, my God. I'm going to get
you," that kind of thing.

Woo!

- Wow.
- Come on now.

Yeah.

Welcome to Murchison Falls.

- This is amazing.

- It is.

It gets really intense.
- Well done, Alex.

- Oh, thank you so much.

- I mean, I know you didn't make this,
but... - You're welcome.

- This is a category shit yourself and
die. - Die.

- Genuinely amazing.

Have you got your swim stuff?

ALEX LAUGHS

When I first came here, I knew nothing
about this country, really,

just Idi Amin.

But Uganda has got a handful of

once-in-a-lifetime experiences, you
know.

It's got all of the stuff that I was
sort of expecting

in terms of natural beauty, wildlife,

but it's got that and then some.

For those things alone, it's been an
amazing experience.

And on top of that, people are
fantastic.

Everybody pretty universally is
friendly and welcoming,

and they give you the feeling that
they're delighted to see you

in the country.

DIRECTOR:
- Oh, there's an otter behind you.

- See what I mean?

You're just doing a little piece to
camera and an otter pops up.

That's what it's like here, it's like
being in Narnia.

There's amazing wildlife.

It's just set up beautifully for you
to come and have a visit.

And on the other hand, you've got a
country

that has just passed

what I would describe as a disgusting
law

that has widespread support.

Violence against people from the, from
the gay community

is essentially being sanctioned and
being supported.

It's horrific.

The question is...

..would I visit this country knowing
all of that?

And the truth is, despite all of the
wonderful things

that Uganda has to offer...

..I don't think I could.

I don't think I can wholeheartedly
recommend this as a place to come.

I've made my opinion, but I think that
is up to you.

It's a matter of whether you can come
here knowing

that that's in place.

You've got an amazing country that has
loads to offer,

the people are incredibly friendly

and so I think it's up to everybody

to make their own personal choice.

Next on our trip, I'm off to Rwanda.

I'm very, very excited about it.

Um, that's on the one hand.

On the other hand, we are one third
through the trip,

and I'm absolutely exhausted.

I'm very grateful.
- Oh, thank you. - Thank you so much.

- Enjoy Rwanda.
- I will do.

I would say that these chats

are going to be slightly lower energy
as we go forward.

By the time we get to Madagascar,

I'm going to have to get someone else
to do them.

Oh, my...

ROMESH LAUGHS

Too close, too close, too close, too
close.

That's good shit.

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