All language subtitles for Very Scary People s03e09 Iceman 1.eng

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What did you want them to think as they
died?

Just see my pretty face.

I take it to them.

The last thing they ever saw was me.

And if they carry that glimpse to
eternity, infinity, or whatever it is,

going to be thinking of me all that
time.

Welcome to Very Scary People.

I'm Donnie Wahlberg.

He was living a double life.

He seemed like a quiet husband and
father, but he was a vicious, cold

killer. Richard Kuklinski was a part
-time hitman and a full -time

His disturbing collection of murders was
motivated by money, by rage, and

sometimes by nothing at all.

He was so skilled at killing and
covering up his crimes that to this day

true extent of his sins is unknown.

So how did Kuklinski evade capture for
so long?

Even I can't believe the story you're
about to hear.

Here is part one of The Iceman.

In September of 1983, a fellow that was
working for the road department in

Orangetown, New York, was cutting grass
on a roadway.

And he saw a series of plastic bags and
he thought he saw flesh.

He went over, looked at it, and it was a
body.

He was brought to the medical examiner's
office and examined.

Several interesting things came from
that.

This subject, after he had been killed,
had been methodically wrapped in

plastic, 27 layers of garbage bags.

And it looked at first as if perhaps
he'd recently died.

This turned out to be Louis Mazgay.

Louis Mazgay disappeared in July 1981.

Two years before the body was found.

But he had the same clothes on.

That he disappeared two years prior.

They knew that this was pretty strange.

Even more interesting is they found what
they termed as ice crystal artifacts.

Which indicated that he, in fact, had
been frozen.

In the hope that the time of death would
be not known.

Later, we were able to establish that
Mr. Mazgay had been taken to a garage in

North Bergen, New Jersey.

That garage, we believe, was a killing
ground.

And he was shot once in the back of the
head.

Then took his body and placed it in a
freezer where it remained for

approximately two years.

Until it was dumped.

That particular crime.

was the genesis of the name Iceman.

We knew we were looking for somebody
that had literally frozen a person.

An evil person.

Evil to the core.

One part of my life, I have killed
people for nothing. Just for somebody to

at me wrong, I would kill them.

From what we understand, Kuklinski got a
job working in a film lab in New

York City where he was dealing with
videotapes and making duplicate copies,

he also segued into making copies of
pornographic films.

He met a man named Roy DeMille through
the underground pornography industry.

Roy DeMille was a soldier within the
Gambino crime family.

And that's known for killing people. He
had a crew of sociopaths, basically,

who operated out of the Gemini Lounge.

They used to chop up people in the
Gemini Lounge, just like in The

where they put them in the bathtubs,
they chopped them up, and then they'd

rid of the bodies.

The male saw Kuklinski as someone who
could be an asset for him.

Kuklinski was a very large fellow.

very intimidating, so he thought he
could be an enforcer. If he came to you

asking for money, you would pay.

But it wasn't long before DeMeo
discovered that Kuklinski was probably

valuable as a killer.

As the story goes, Roy DeMeo wanted to
find out what Kuklinski was capable of.

One day, they were riding in a car, and
Roy DeMeo said, okay, well, kill this

guy here.

There was a guy walking his dog.

Didn't know the man. Couldn't have been
me walking down the street.

Could have been anybody.

Richard got out.

He shot this man.

And at that point, Roy DeMeo knew that
Richard had essentially

what it takes.

And that's how Richard got into the
business of murdering people for profit.

From that point, from there, he launched
a career being what he represented as

one of the most prolific mob killers.

It's interesting because a person like
Kuklinski, the one area of knowledge,

base foundation of knowledge, was in
killing.

He really prided himself, it seems, on
the various ways and different ways in

which he killed people.

According to Kuklinski, he killed with
firearms, with knives. He also

He said that he killed an individual.

that was involved in a pornography
business.

He said that he went there and he rang
the doorbell and the person asked who

there. And when that person looked
through the peephole, he squeezed the

and blew the guy's head off.

On another occasion, he stated that he
had thrown a person off a building in

Hawaii. In one case, he claimed to have
allowed rats to eat a person alive.

He talked about how he had some people
beg for mercy.

Kukunsky was a different breed.

A different breed.

Normally when we think of serial murder,
we think of the lust killer, somebody

who's getting perverse sexual
satisfaction of killing.

However, there are a number of types of
serial murders.

We have another type who kills for
profit.

and a serial killer who killed for power
and control. And those two seem to be

fused for him in most cases.

He did it because he liked it.

He had no remorse whatsoever.

He loves that stuff.

He's into it.

He was a killing machine.

He could do it on a moment's notice,
with no hesitation, no conscience.

This guy, I thought, made Richard Amira
the night stalker seem like a quarry boy

lost in the wood.

Believe it or not, he was truly a
devoted family man.

He kept his work life very separate from
his family.

Richard Kukwinski married Barbara in
1961, and they had three children, two

girls and a boy.

He loved them more than anything.

They were his pride and joy.

They moved to Dumont, New Jersey, which
is a pretty nice town, and lived a

suburban lifestyle.

None of his neighbors.

had any clue who this guy was who lived
next door.

He was a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He had
a duality that is very, very, very

rare. He could be the nicest, sweetest,
giving guy, a good neighbor, somebody

who wanted to live next door, and the
next minute he could be slowly torturing

somebody.

His wife Barbara told me she really
didn't know too much about what he did.

I think she knew him as a businessman.

I don't think she knew much more than
that.

He liked that the victims were looking
directly at him.

Pleasure from seeing someone terrified
and a sense of power and control.

Should have got one time in it as soon.

Adam's app.

See how long it would take him to die.

How long did it take?

A few minutes.

He drowned, actually.

Drowned in his blood?

Mm -hmm.

I was with somebody else. We had a $50
bet.

I lost.

Richard Kuklinski was a mafia contract
killer.

But he was also a freelance killer.

He would do jobs on the side.

He became involved in a series of what
we would call the commercial murders.

After making contact with somebody, he
would lure them into thinking that he

able to provide a quantity of something
that that person was looking for,

whether it be videotapes, whether it be
a pharmaceutical product.

And he got them to bring cash to
locations.

With the hope of making a score.

And all of a sudden they weren't seen
again.

Nor was the money.

He didn't just rob them. He would kill
them so they could never come back and

say anything about him.

Then the money would dry up in spells.

And he'd have to go out and hunt again.

Just like a lion in Africa.

Trying to select his prey.

Then come home with the goodies.

In 1980, Kuklinski met up with a man
named George Malabant.

Malabant's brother had indicated he was
supposed to meet somebody.

The purpose was to buy videotapes, and
he had to bring cash.

We're sitting in a van. I'm in the
driver's seat.

Georgie Boy was over here in the next
seat, which was, you know, just like

He was shot by Kukwinski.

His body was taken and was put in a 50
-gallon drum.

Kukwinski couldn't get his body into the
drum because Malaban was a large male.

And he cut his leg, the ligaments, so he
could bend his legs and stuff them into

the drum.

And then he tossed it from a cliff.

His body was found.

On February 5th, in a Jersey City
industrial area.

As the state police and the local
authorities investigated that murder,

very few leads.

Case didn't go anywhere at the time.

Nowhere. They had a body in a barrel.

They had some ballistics.

So it was a completely unsolved crime.

You have said of Richard, there are two
Richards.

I never knew who'd be walking in the
door. He could be generous to a fault or

the meanest man on earth. Tell us more
about that. That's true.

He was kind, considerate. You know, he
would have done anything for all of us.

Very generous gifts and flowers and the
best dinners and nice wine.

But when whatever twisted him, whatever
happened, it didn't matter how good

those times were.

Because the bad was so bad. And he
abused you physically.

He certainly did. What did he do?

Stabbed me.

Broke my nose.

Lost consciousness many times. Strangled
me.

Would wake up, you know, 2 o 'clock in
the morning with a pillow over my face.

And he would tell me that he decided
that was the day I die.

So the idea that he may have killed you
was not outside of the realm of

possibility. Absolutely not. Mary, he
talked to you about that. What did he

He had said that if he ever went too far
with Mom.

Killed her.

Right.

that I would have to understand that he
would have to take care, you know, get

rid of all of us because he could leave
no witnesses and that it would be hard.

He'd have to kill you?

And how old were you when he told you
this?

That was probably about 14.

Your father said, if I accidentally kill
your mother in a fit of rage, I'm going

to have to kill you too.

But that could have happened at any time
during the rages that he could have

slipped and killed any of us, all of us.
And you accepted that?

Well, at times that that might have been
easier.

There was no choice. What was the
choice?

What did you think of your father?

Merrick and him were very close. I was
not close with him. I was more, I

protected my mother, and that was where
my alliance laid.

Merrick, you made excuses for him?

For his behavior at home.

I don't know if it was excuses per se,
but I

think that I tried to make him see
different,

to try to calm him.

And so my role was to try to keep him
happy, to keep him calm so that the

outbursts were less.

Good dad was always overshadowed, but
bad dad could be there any second.

We had to be the perfect family,
smiling.

That's the difference. When he was
around, we had to smile.

We were born into this, and this was
normal life for us. This is what home

was all about. We didn't know that our
friends didn't live like this.

In his own sick, weird way, he loved
them more than anything.

They were his pride and joy.

The only time I ever got any emotion out
of him during all the many hours I

spoke to him was when he spoke about his
family, his dear, profound, twisted,

sick love for them.

Probably the smartest thing that Richard
Kuklinski did as a hitman or as a

killer was to leave very little trace of
what he had done.

One of the methods Richard used to kill
and actually preferred was cyanide.

Cyanide is a toxin that can work very
fast on the body.

It's a really potent...

Toxin, meaning that it doesn't take much
in the way of milligrams to cause

toxicity.

Kuklinski used a number of different
means of delivery of cyanide. He talked

about putting it on food.

There's also injection.

He could walk into a bar, bump elbows
with the guy.

He's got cyanide in the drink.

Spill the drink on them.

And leave.

Everybody just looks around and thinks
you were drunk or that you just had an

accident or something.

Meanwhile,

it's soaking through their clothes into
their pores and into their system.

And eventually, they'll die.

Then there's the sprain in the face that
he talked about.

You can put it into a spray bottle.

This guy takes

five, no more than ten steps, falls to
the ground.

There's no turning around from that at
all.

Not at all.

Once they ingest that into their system,
it's going to kill you.

As a murderer, I can see where Cook
-Clemson thought this was a good method

because there's always the problem of
the body.

He wants to take somebody out. They
suddenly look like they're having a

attack.

No one thinks it's cyanide.

Chris, did you ever wonder why your mom
didn't take you and flee the situation?

Oh, many times.

I begged her. Please, let's get out of
here. Let's leave. Let's go someplace.

There wasn't anywhere to go.

They planned to poison him, Barbara and
Chris.

They actually were planning to kill him,
but they realized that if they tried to

do that and it didn't work, that he
would kill them.

Paul Hoffman was a pharmacist in New
Jersey.

At the time, the drug tagament.

was very popular, and was being ordered
in large quantities by a lot of the

populace. It was a very expensive drug.

Hoffman wanted this drug that Kuklinski
said he had.

I don't know what the price was going
back then, but let's just say if the

price for the medicine was $5, he was
going to buy it for under a dollar.

He was going to make a ton of money.

Richard Kukwinski told Hoffman that
somebody was going to deliver a van

with tagament for him. And Hoffman
emptied out his bank account.

He had, I believe it was $20 ,000 or $25
,000 in cash.

Kukwinski had Paul Hoffman come to his
garage on New Kirk Avenue.

And he closed the door.

He says, how am I going to get this
merchandise?

I put the gun under his chin, and I
said, there is no merchandise.

And I shot him.

Paul Hoffman did not die.

He was struggling and gurgling, and
Richard tried to shoot him again, and

gun malfunctioned.

Took a tire iron out.

And beat him to death.

He then took his body and he put it in a
50 -gallon drum.

And he placed concrete on top of the
body and he sealed the drum.

And that's how Paul Hoffman met his
demise.

The murder seems.

Pretty cruel.

Callous.

No feeling.

No remorse at all.

Welcome back to Very Scary People. By
1982.

Police say Richard Kuklinski had killed
three men in New Jersey, George

Malaband, Louis Mazgay, and Paul
Hoffman, as part of what was dubbed his

commercial murders.

The murders were committed and the
bodies dumped in three different

jurisdictions. And though Kuklinski was
thought to be the last person to see

each of them alive, these killings were
unsolved and unlinked for a long time.

But all that was about to change.

In the 1980s, Kuklinski began working
with a small crime ring in the northern

part of New Jersey.

They were doing house burglaries and
stolen cars and stuff like that.

Richard Kuklinski was the boss.

Underneath him was Percy House.

Two of the more productive of his crew,
if you call it that, were Gary Smith and

Danny Deppner.

I had 40 house burglaries in a three
-county area.

And I had an informant with me. That was
part of the crew.

I said to him, where's all these
proceeds going to?

He says, you don't want to know.

I said, why don't I want to know? He
says, because the guy running this whole

thing, if he finds out that you're on to
him, he's coming after you.

He said, he is the most vicious person
I've ever seen, I've ever heard of. All

he has to do is look at you, and you
feel like running for the hills.

I said, give me his name.

I want his name.

He gave me the name Richard Kuklinski.

After time, there was enough evidence to
indict several of those individuals on

several charges regarding stolen
property, including Gary Smith and Danny

Deppner.

Although there was not enough connection
to implicate Richard Kuklinski.

Kuklinski knew that Deppner and Smith
posed a real threat to him.

They could possibly talk.

and give him up.

Building on his lifelong evolution of a
killer, these were risks that for him

were unacceptable.

And he got rid of them, one by one.

Kuklinski took Gary and Danny off the
street and moved them to a series of

motels.

Eventually, they were put into the York
Motel, which he would visit them, bring

them food.

told him not to leave the room under any
circumstances.

On December 23rd, Kukwinski decided that
he was going to kill Gary Smith.

Kukwinski got together with Deppner and
Smith for a meal.

They ordered hamburgers.

Kukwinski decided he would kill Smith by
poisoning him with cyanide.

Cyanide looks just like salt, table
salt.

So Kuklinski had mixed cyanide in the
ketchup that was then brought on a

hamburger to Gary Smith.

Gary Smith started to eat the hamburger.

Gary, about halfway through, his eyes
went goofy and rolled back in his head,

and he fell back on the bed.

He was gagging and trying to breathe.

Kuklinski went next to the bed.

ripped the lamp cord off of the lamp,
threw it to Danny.

And he then ordered Danny Deppner to
finish him off with the cord, which

Deppner did.

He got behind him, put the cord around
his neck, and choked off his Airstream.

Gary Smith's body was then laced under
the mattress in the bedroom of the

and it remained there for a number of
days.

The room was rented out to several
guests several times. They had no idea

this guy's corpse was underneath it
before the odor finally got the hotel

to find it and call the cops.

There was decay that had occurred. So
the body had actually turned the skin

in color to the point that they thought
it was an African -American male

initially.

Kuklinski knows that there's someone
else who has to be eliminated from the

case, and that's Mr. Deppner.

May? Of 1983, Danny Deppner's body was
found by a reservoir in the woods and

wrapped in multiple layers of garbage
bags.

When I got to the scene, I remember
saying to myself, you son of a bitch,

going to get you now.

Come hell or high water, I'm going to
get you.

And that's when I started to zero in on
him.

We found three reports.

They were sitting in like a dead file,
going nowhere.

Hoffman. Nascay and Malibu.

The police made the connection that
Richard Kuklinski appeared to be the

person who had been seen by these three
men who subsequently were murdered.

When I discovered that, I go, oh, wow.

How many people did this guy kill?

They didn't have anything that linked
Kuklinski to these cases.

For sure.

Given that Kuklinski was pretty
experienced as having been a mob hitman,

how to cover his tracks. He was very
careful about making sure nobody would

find out what he had done.

They had a lot of disparate crimes.

And because Kuklinski was actively
working to eliminate evidence, it was

lacking with proof beyond a reasonable
doubt.

They needed to find a way to link
Kuklinski to all these different

They needed direct evidence. They needed
to hear from Kuklinski himself.

how he murdered these individuals.

I am what you call the person's
nightmare.

Because of the way I project myself,
people think they can get by.

And then all of a sudden, when they wake
up, it's too late.

One of the dynamics we look at is how
did Richard get into this business of

being a killer?

What was the template upon which this
mass murderer was formed?

Well, basically, Richard was a severely
abused child.

Richard Kuklinski was born April 11,
1935, in Jersey City, New Jersey.

Kuklinski had three siblings. They were
Florian, Roberta, and Joseph.

His family was not well off.

Richard had a very difficult upbringing.

His father, according to Richard, was
physically abusive, beat him, beat other

members of the family.

He wrapped a garrison belt around his
fist and he hit them in the head and

knocked them out.

And his mother was verbally abusive,
very strict, and at times would

also beat him with a broom.

There's a lack of love in that family
and quite a bit of what I would call

brutality.

So that's really not a very good
environment, I would say.

Richard's brother, Florian, died at
approximately age eight.

Initially, it was believed that he had
fallen down the stairs and sustained

injuries from that fall.

Richard has said that actually what
happened was that Florian was beaten to

death by his father.

The impact, I think, stayed with him his
whole life.

I asked him, do you have any regrets,
Richard?

And he said, yeah, I regret not killing
my father. He hated his father.

The question is often raised, is killing
genetic, particularly if an individual

comes from a violent home?

If the child is genetically at risk, if
that child is raised in a violent home,

it's likely the combination of both.

And in Richard's case, from what we
know, it was likely both.

What's particularly odd in this case is
that Richard was not the only killer in

the family.

Richard Kuklinski had a brother by the
name of Joseph.

In 1970, he was charged.

in the rape and killing of a 12 -year
-old girl.

He had lured her onto the roof of a
building where he sexually assaulted

and afterwards he threw her body off the
building and killed her. He was

convicted of murder.

When you have violence in the home, it
can create the dynamics that can lead to

violent behavior, and in a very small
percentage of cases, It can also lead

to killing. In this case, clearly that
rage could propel someone to kill

or to explode under certain
circumstances.

We had acquired a lot of information
through various law enforcement sources

which pointed to Richard Kukwinski.

The problem with it was there wasn't
enough information to arrest him.

The idea that was suggested was maybe,
just maybe, we could have an undercover

pose as another criminal to build
evidence that would support a

When the investigation of Richard
Kuklinski needed an undercover

went and got Dom Polifrone.

If there was a Mount Rushmore for
undercover agent, Dom's face would

be carved in the granite.

Dominic Polifrone was a decorated
federal agent that has successfully

infiltrated major mob families in New
York.

I worked all organized crime, five
families in New York before I came over

New Jersey. I had a lot of experience. I
spent 15 years in the streets.

You could talk the talk, walk the walk.

I didn't play a different part. I was
myself.

That's who I am, and that's who I'm
going to die as, okay?

He had the look. He had the dialect.

He was the person, if anyone, that could
get close to Richard Kuklinski.

So I read the information about
Kuklinski. They had a huge folder on

he lived, his family, his associates.

And they alleged that he committed five
murders.

There was this poison that was involved.

And it cut into your skin there. There's
no way an antidote would work

there.

Headquarters called me and says, are you
sure you want to do this?

This is a case that is totally, totally
like a Twilight Zone case.

So I said, yeah, I want to do it.

I used the name of Dominic Michael
Provenzano.

So to make this false persona character
real, Michael Dominic

Provenzano had fake IDs, fake criminal
histories, mugshots on file.

a fake apartment, all which were
available and accessible and verifiable

solidify his credibility if anybody was
trying to look at him from the outside

in. The main function of this
investigation was get the information

Kuklinski murdered them people. Bottom
line, we have to meet Richard Kuklinski.

He was very unpredictable.

He was very cunning.

He was very...

wary of outside people.

And we knew it would be very difficult
to get an undercover into him.

The way Dominic sort of integrated
himself into this world was there was a

store.

This is a place where guys like Kukinski
used to hang out.

I guess you could describe the store as
a combination of a social club and a

location where different criminal
elements would meet to discuss and to

stolen property and other criminal
activities.

Dom's generic persona, cover story, was
that he was a guy that could

obtain contraband.

Dom was a black market guy.

that knew all the people in all the dark
alleys and all the hidden corners, and

he could go find what you needed,
regardless of how exotic it was.

So I started hanging out at the store,
and I'm developing my rapport with these

bad guys.

Dominic had to dedicate himself for a
long time to do things that would

establish his credibility.

I go in one day, and I walk in with this
suitcase, and they go, what's that? I

said, it's for people in New York who
don't want to know about it.

And I knew they were going to ask, Tom,
what's in there? So I go in the back

room, I open the attaché case, and
inside I have 10 blocks of plastic

explosives from the military. I have 10
high -standard .22 caliber silencers

with no manufacturer's serial number.

They went berserk. They said, man,
listen, we can use this. I said, look,

another time, but these are for people
from New York.

I knew word was going to get out that I
can get anything.

One day, in September of 86, the phone
rings at the store in Patterson. And

say the big guy wants to see you.

It was Big Richie.

And he wanted to meet Dominic at a local
donut shop.

Richie Kikonski claimed to have killed
100, 200 people. We simply have no idea.

It's been very difficult for
investigators and journalists and

down the actual evidence to support a
lot of those claims.

Did you ever let anyone go for whatever
reason? Did you ever decide to let

someone go?

Yes. But then I thought better of the
idea and shot him anyway.

After 18 months undercover, it was
September 2nd, 1986, when the call came

at the store.

And that's when I first met Kuklinski at
the Dunkin' Donuts in Patterson, New

Jersey.

If you were going to put this on a scale
of 1 to 10, with 10 being the most

dangerous, it was an 11.

Dom's going to meet a serial killer.

We didn't know what was going to happen.
We don't know if Kuklinski has already

figured out that we're onto him. If
Dominic said something wrong, it could

him off. And he had the capability of
killing very quickly.

Dominic had a lot of pressure. The
entire investigation hinged on whether

could at least entice Kuklinski to
participate in something with him.

And... Just the added subliminal hidden
pressure of knowing that the public's

safety rests in your hands. What Dom did
was going to depend on if innocent

civilians lived or died.

He pulls up.

This son of a bitch.

He was like the Jolly Green Giant.

He was a big guy. He was about 6 '4".

maybe 260, 265, and he wore these orange
-tinged glasses.

We go into Dunkin' Donuts, and we sit
down, and we're just talking

Dom knew what the reputation of
Kuklinski was.

Kuklinski believed he knew.

what Dom's reputation was. There was no
purpose in Dom creating an intimidating

presence for Kuklinski.

He's trying to warm the guy up, not
drive him away.

But how do you do that and still
maintain your credibility and not be a

for this guy?

Richard was trying to likely size
Dominic up and to see if he was someone

could be trusted,

He says, you do coke.

I said, no, I don't do coke.

He says, no, no.

What do you get a kilo for?

I said, probably at that time it was
about $30 ,000 a kilo.

He says, well, I can get it for $28
,000.

I said, well, then you should go with
your guy.

He goes, you know, he says, I know it's
a good price, but I don't know if I can

trust him.

I look at him. I said, you're an idiot.

You don't trust somebody. You don't deal
with somebody you don't trust.

Dom makes a pretty bold move in
challenging Kuklinski. He's calling out

the most dangerous men on the planet.
And he's basically saying, you're a

You're crazy.

You're doing narcotics deals with
someone you don't trust?

Well, let me tell you something for five
seconds.

He looked at me like he was grabbing my
soul and say, I'm going to rip your

heart out.

Nobody talks to me that way. And he's
looking at me and I'm looking at him.

It was the longest five seconds you can
imagine.

He could send fear through somebody's
body without saying a word. Just looking

at him.

I said, this is the devil. I'm telling
you, I'm sitting down with the devil.

Points his finger and he goes, you're
right.

I said, you're damn right I'm right.

You don't deal with people you don't
trust.

Then he goes, I hear you have a lot of
connections.

I said, yeah.

He said, can you get pure cyanide?

I could have fell off the chair.

There is a sense of urgency.

I just have a few problems I want to
dispose of.

I have some rats I want to get rid of.

The scale of danger is off the charts.

It was like the ultimate chess game.

You've got to make a move and hope it's
not the wrong move during this

investigation.

When

they

heard their husband and father's voice
explaining how to kill people and how

cold and calculated he was, their whole
demeanor changed.

Through all of that time, all of these
murders, Barbara, you didn't know that

anything was up.

You lived with this man for 25 years,
you knew nothing.

The multi -agency task force launched to
make a case against Richard Kuklinski

was dubbed Operation Iceman.

The goal was to get Kuklinski
comfortable enough with an undercover

that he would talk about his crimes.

The agent, Dominic Polifrone, would be
wearing a wire, a dangerous cat and

game that could prove fatal in part two
of The Iceman.

I'm Donnie Wahlberg.

Thanks for watching.

Good night.

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